whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v be_v speak_v of_o he_o say_v antioch_n the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v for_o which_o as_o we_o have_v hear_v he_o give_v this_o reason_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o right_a and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o yet_o now_o we_o see_v he_o grant_v distinction_n between_o ability_n and_o right_n and_o say_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n may_v still_o retain_v this_o latter_a of_o their_o right_n even_o then_o when_o they_o want_v the_o other_o of_o ability_n which_o two_o saying_n whether_o they_o do_v perfect_o agree_v and_o whether_o in_o the_o latter_a of_o they_o he_o do_v not_o plain_o come_v up_o to_o we_o against_o who_o he_o have_v be_v dispute_v in_o the_o former_a i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n and_o especial_o to_o himself_o to_o consider_v for_o for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v that_o these_o two_o say_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n as_o antioch_n may_v have_v right_a jus_o to_o judge_v a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o may_v want_v ability_n and_o antioch_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n want_v ability_n do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o right_n or_o jus_o to_o determine_v the_o point_n these_o two_o i_o say_v be_v such_o say_n as_o be_v not_o easy_a for_o i_o to_o reconcile_v last_o if_o it_o be_v say_v our_o brother_n do_v not_o deny_v unto_o antioch_n or_o a_o church_n in_o error_n all_o power_n simple_o to_o determine_v but_o only_o to_o determine_v tali_fw-la mode_n that_o be_v to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n for_o his_o word_n be_v they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_a eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o i_o answer_v he_o have_v such_o a_o word_n indeed_o as_o eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o but_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v he_o mean_v no_o more_o in_o this_o dispute_n but_o only_o that_o such_o a_o church_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n i_o conceive_v that_o he_o that_o shall_v so_o say_v shall_v therein_o impute_v some_o fault_n unto_o our_o brother_n even_o the_o fault_n of_o wrest_a mr._n tompsons_n tenent_n and_o i_o and_o suggest_v against_o we_o unto_o his_o reader_n as_o if_o we_o have_v hold_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o we_o never_o write_v nor_o think_v for_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o pag._n 424._o be_v dispute_v against_o we_o for_o he_o say_v that_o we_o teach_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o and_o set_v down_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o the_o man_n that_o so_o teach_v in_o answer_n page_n 42._o and_o a_o few_o line_n after_o he_o say_v i_o think_v the_o brethren_n err_v in_o this_o to_o teach_v that_o antioch_n have_v power_n to_o determine_v the_o controversy_n act._n 15._o and_o then_o he_o give_v two_o reason_n for_o the_o contrary_n so_o that_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o now_o what_o have_v we_o say_v in_o this_o matter_n have_v we_o deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n let_v the_o answer_n be_v view_v in_o the_o place_n which_o he_o allege_v viz._n page_n 42._o and_o i_o be_o sure_a no_o such_o gross_a tenent_n will_v be_v there_o find_v no_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o our_o writing_n that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v this_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v determine_v the_o matter_n if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n we_o never_o speak_v one_o word_n that_o sound_v that_o way_n our_o brother_n therefore_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o and_o plain_o express_v so_o much_o and_o our_o tenent_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o must_v therefore_o needs_o follow_v that_o his_o intendment_n be_v that_o antioch_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v that_o matter_n but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n he_o can_v confute_v such_o a_o tenent_n as_o we_o we_o never_o have_v deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n but_o he_o must_v withal_o be_v culpable_a of_o manifest_a mistake_n and_o misreporting_a of_o we_o to_o the_o world_n and_o we_o be_v and_o must_v be_v slow_a to_o believe_v that_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_n will_v willing_o do_v we_o such_o wrong_n it_o remain_v therefore_o that_o right_o to_o determine_v and_o not_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o opposite_a as_o we_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v that_o in_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n i_o have_v here_o apply_v my_o answer_n the_o 〈…〉_z thus_o much_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o 〈…〉_z that_o may_v soon_o be_v confute_v but_o the_o tenent_n be_v none_o of_o we_o that_o 〈…〉_z to_o determine_v be_v indeed_o our_o tenent_n and_o whether_o this_o be_v confute_v 〈…〉_z let_v the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a consider_v chap._n ix_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o difficultive_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o his_o page_n 424_o meaning_n mr_n tâ—mpson_n and_o i_o and_o allege_v page_n 17_o 18._o of_o the_o answer_n he_o write_v that_o we_o say_v our_o opposite_n do_v much_o judaize_v in_o that_o they_o multiply_v appeal_n upon_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o classis_fw-la then_o to_o a_o synod_n then_o to_o a_o national_n assembly_n then_o to_o a_o oecâ—â—â—â—nicke_a council_n and_o this_o way_n while_o the_o world_n endure_v cause_n be_v never_o determine_v and_o synod_n can_v always_o be_v have_v even_o as_o in_o jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a judicature_n be_v far_o remote_a from_o all_o proselyte_n as_o from_o the_o eunuch_n of_o ethiopia_n act._n 8._o and_o from_o the_o remote_o part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n but_o god_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o we_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o every_o congregation_n which_o be_v at_o hand_n may_v decide_v the_o controversy_n and_o then_o page_z 425._o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o of_o the_o thing_n here_o allege_v be_v write_v by_o we_o in_o the_o paâ—â—â—_n name_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v write_v for_o the_o purpose_n which_o our_o brother_n express_v viz._n to_o show_v that_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o opposite_a judgement_n do_v much_o judaize_v that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v for_o the_o place_n be_v view_v will_v plain_o witness_v that_o we_o bring_v the_o thing_n allege_v for_o another_o end_n viz._n to_o show_v whether_o the_o way_n that_o be_v call_v independency_n do_v make_v the_o people_n as_o some_o have_v think_v of_o it_o more_o defective_a and_o improvident_a than_o their_o law_n for_o this_o be_v object_v against_o that_o way_n we_o in_o answer_n thereto_o do_v show_v by_o sundry_a particular_n that_o it_o be_v not_o that_o way_n that_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n but_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o other_o judgement_n one_o way_n on_o the_o one_o side_n make_v the_o state_n of_o christian_n in_o these_o day_n in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n make_v our_o condition_n in_o many_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o the_o jew_n so_o that_o not_o judayze_a but_o make_v our_o condition_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o jew_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o we_o here_o note_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o brethren_n nor_o do_v i_o see_v how_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o answer_n do_v free_a their_o doctrine_n and_o way_n from_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n if_o we_o have_v intend_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v we_o will_v never_o have_v use_v such_o a_o reason_n as_o he_o true_o report_v we_o to_o use_v viz._n that_o by_o appeal_n upon_o appeal_n cause_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n way_n may_v be_v so_o protract_v as_o never_o to_o be_v determine_v nor_o end_v for_o this_o reason_n have_v neither_o strength_n nor_o colour_n of_o strength_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o he_o say_v we_o bring_v it_o for_o inasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n among_o they_o and_o therefore_o to_o say_v that_o our_o brethren_n do_v judaize_v and_o then_o to_o give_v that_o for_o a_o
read_v in_o one_o assembly_n and_o another_o in_o another_o whereof_o in_o the_o present_a case_n there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o the_o least_o hint_n and_o if_o we_o will_v imagine_v such_o a_o matter_n for_o which_o there_o be_v small_a reason_n yet_o since_o it_o be_v judas_n and_o silas_n by_o who_o this_o epistle_n be_v send_v and_o who_o be_v to_o tell_v the_o same_o thing_n by_o mouth_n and_o who_o also_o upon_o the_o deliver_n of_o the_o epistle_n exhort_v the_o brother_n of_o antioch_n with_o many_o word_n as_o be_v clear_a vers_fw-la 22_o 23_o 27_o 32._o judas_n and_o silaâ—_n i_o say_v be_v but_o two_o man_n can_v not_o be_v present_a and_o speak_v and_o act_v these_o thing_n in_o many_o assembly_n at_o once_o but_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v both_o in_o one_o assembly_n or_o at_o the_o most_o in_o two_o but_o the_o text_n make_v no_o mention_n of_o their_o be_v in_o two_o but_o plain_o enough_o intimate_v the_o contrary_a that_o they_o be_v both_o together_o and_o yet_o where_o they_o be_v present_a there_o be_v the_o multitude_n gather_v together_o to_o receive_v the_o epistle_n by_o their_o hand_n and_o to_o hear_v the_o report_n and_o word_n of_o exhortation_n at_o their_o mouth_n unless_o therefore_o we_o will_v imagine_v that_o judas_n and_o silas_n can_v be_v present_a and_o act_n in_o many_o assembly_n at_o once_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o think_v this_o multitude_n among_o who_o they_o be_v present_a and_o act_v to_o be_v many_o congregation_n or_o assembly_n and_o therefore_o for_o his_o conclusion_n pag._n 475_o 476._o that_o the_o mention_v of_o one_o multitude_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n act_v 15._o 30._o can_v never_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o single_a congregation_n at_o antioch_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o we_o do_v not_o lay_v the_o force_n of_o our_o reason_n in_o the_o mention_v of_o the_o multitude_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n and_o therefore_o it_o can_v not_o thus_o be_v satisfy_v or_o put_v off_o for_o our_o word_n be_v these_o the_o whole_a multitude_n of_o they_o be_v gather_v together_o at_o the_o return_n of_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n from_o the_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n to_o hear_v the_o epistle_n read_v which_o be_v send_v from_o that_o synod_n answer_v p._n 50._o wherein_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o perceive_v that_o we_o lay_v the_o force_n of_o our_o reason_n not_o in_o this_o that_o the_o church_n be_v call_v a_o multitude_n in_o the_o singular_a number_n but_o in_o this_o that_o the_o whole_a multitude_n be_v gather_v together_o for_o such_o a_o end_n as_o there_o be_v express_v and_o this_o we_o still_o conceive_v may_v prove_v the_o point_n for_o a_o church_n which_o be_v such_o a_o multitude_n as_o be_v gather_v together_o for_o the_o receive_n of_o one_o epistle_n which_o be_v send_v unto_o they_o all_o and_o which_o be_v gather_v together_o to_o hear_v the_o epistle_n read_v and_o also_o to_o hear_v the_o same_o thing_n by_o mouth_n the_o man_n from_o who_o mouth_n they_o must_v so_o hear_v and_o from_o who_o hand_n they_o must_v so_o receive_v be_v no_o more_o but_o two_o such_o a_o church_n as_o this_o can_v be_v no_o more_o but_o one_o congregation_n or_o assembly_n now_o antioch_n be_v such_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o be_v no_o more_o but_o one_o congregation_n if_o this_o conclusion_n be_v not_o grant_v some_o way_n must_v be_v devise_v how_o many_o several_a assembly_n may_v all_o be_v receiver_n and_o hearer_n of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o epistle_n at_o the_o same_o time_n there_o be_v but_o one_o copy_n of_o the_o epistle_n as_o also_o how_o they_o may_v at_o one_o time_n hear_v the_o same_o thing_n declare_v to_o they_o by_o mouth_n when_o there_o be_v but_o two_o man_n to_o declare_v the_o same_o and_o when_o such_o a_o way_n be_v find_v out_o we_o may_v then_o further_o consider_v thereof_o but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n the_o ground_n and_o reason_n allege_v do_v induce_v i_o to_o think_v that_o antioch_n where_o those_o thing_n be_v thus_o do_v be_v indeed_o but_o one_o congregation_n chap._n xvii_o whether_o no_o liberty_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o people_n but_o woman_n must_v exercise_v the_o same_o as_o well_o as_o man_n and_o of_o the_o people_n liberty_n about_o ordination_n or_o the_o call_v of_o minister_n in_o the_o answer_n p._n 8._o we_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n govern_v proper_o so_o call_v we_o acknowledge_v not_o in_o any_o but_o in_o the_o elder_n alone_o 1_o cor._n 12._o vers_fw-la 28._o rom._n 12._o 8._o heb._n 13._o 17._o if_o that_o word_n be_v ascribe_v to_o the_o people_n it_o must_v be_v understand_v in_o a_o more_o improper_a sense_n for_o that_o which_o impropriety_n of_o speech_n be_v more_o fit_o call_v liberty_n or_o privilege_n and_o yet_o this_o liberty_n when_o it_o be_v exercise_v about_o ordination_n deposition_n excommunication_n etc._n etc._n be_v of_o the_o whole_a body_n communiter_fw-la or_o in_o general_a but_o not_o of_o all_o and_o every_o member_n in_o particular_a as_o you_o conceive_v we_o to_o hold_v for_o woman_n and_o child_n be_v member_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o to_o act_v in_o such_o matter_n the_o one_o be_v debar_v by_o their_o sex_n and_o the_o other_o for_o want_n of_o understanding_n and_o discretion_n this_o passage_n mr._n rutherford_n have_v relate_v though_o with_o some_o variation_n in_o his_o pag._n 476_o in_o answer_n thereto_o he_o say_v thus_o p._n 477._o if_o there_o be_v no_o govern_v power_n in_o woman_n nor_o any_o act_n at_o all_o in_o excommunication_n you_o lose_v many_o argument_n that_o you_o bring_v 1_o cor._n 5._o to_o prove_v that_o all_o have_v hand_n in_o excommunication_n 1._o because_o paul_n write_v to_o all_o 2._o all_o be_v to_o mourn_v 3._o all_o be_v to_o forbear_v the_o company_n of_o the_o excommunicate_v then_o belike_o paul_n write_v not_o to_o all_o saint_n at_o corinth_n not_o to_o woman_n and_o woman_n be_v not_o to_o mourn_v for_o the_o scandal_n nor_o to_o forbear_v his_o company_n answ_n if_o mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o do_v be_v such_o argument_n from_o 1_o cor._n 5._o why_o be_v not_o the_o place_n quote_v where_o we_o do_v bring_v they_o i_o suppose_v there_o be_v no_o such_o place_n at_o all_o that_o can_v be_v produce_v and_o therefore_o i_o desire_v so_o much_o favour_n that_o what_o we_o never_o say_v may_v not_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o nor_o divulge_v abroad_o as_o we_o if_o other_o do_v bring_v such_o argument_n from_o 1_o cor._n 5._o they_o that_o bring_v they_o be_v able_a to_o speak_v for_o themselves_o and_o to_o give_v account_n of_o their_o own_o argument_n but_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n that_o do_v require_v that_o we_o shall_v be_v draw_v to_o defend_v such_o argument_n as_o we_o never_o use_v nor_o that_o do_v allow_v our_o reverend_a brother_n to_o report_v such_o argument_n as_o we_o which_o have_v never_o be_v use_v by_o we_o i_o count_v it_o therefore_o a_o impertinent_a digression_n to_o spend_v time_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o they_o the_o privilege_n say_v he_o be_v a_o part_n of_o liberty_n purchase_v by_o christ_n body_n it_o must_v be_v due_a to_o 〈…〉_z for_o the_o liberty_n wherewith_o christ_n have_v make_v woman_n free_a can_v be_v take_v away_o 〈…〉_z of_o god_n from_o their_o sex_n except_o in_o christ_n jesus_n there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o jew_n and_o gentile_n male_a and_o female_a answ_n that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o people_n we_o say_v in_o propriety_n of_o speech_n be_v more_o â—itly_o call_v liberty_n or_o privilege_n but_o of_o liberty_n purchase_v by_o christ_n body_n or_o blood_n we_o make_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v spare_v speech_n thereof_o but_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o the_o people_n can_v have_v no_o liberty_n but_o woman_n also_o may_v exercise_v the_o 〈…〉_z else_o their_o liberty_n purchase_v for_o they_o by_o christ_n be_v take_v away_o it_o seem_v he_o so_o conceive_v but_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o his_o own_o doctrine_n elsewhere_o and_o the_o apostle_n wâ—â—ds_n can_v stand_v together_o for_o in_o one_o place_n he_o say_v that_o act_v 14._o 23._o prove_v that_o elder_n ordain_v elder_a with_o lift_v up_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o people_n and_o this_o say_v he_o be_v 〈…〉_z doctrine_n due_a right_o p._n 190._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v the_o people_n have_v god_n right_a to_o choose_v minister_n for_o so_o the_o word_n prescribe_v for_o which_o in_o his_o margin_n he_o allege_v 〈◊〉_d several_a text_n of_o scripture_n act_v 15._o 22._o 1_o cor._n 16._o 3._o 2._o cor._n 8._o 19_o act_n 6._o 4._o act_n 14._o 23._o and_o in_o his_o text_n allege_v tertullian_n cyprian_n ambrose_n origen_n chrysostome_n the_o council_n
no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n or_o national_a church_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o have_v our_o word_n be_v deliver_v and_o set_v down_o by_o he_o as_o they_o come_v from_o we_o this_o speech_n and_o passage_n of_o he_o will_v have_v be_v useless_a and_o apparent_o bring_v in_o without_o cause_n for_o to_o what_o purpose_n shall_v he_o bring_v in_o this_o exception_n say_v except_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o the_o land_n etc._n etc._n when_o ourselves_o have_v prevent_v he_o in_o this_o by_o put_v such_o a_o exception_n express_o into_o the_o prohibition_n which_o we_o deduce_v and_o gather_v from_o that_o scripture_n of_o numb_a 8._o 10._o sure_o this_o have_v not_o need_v but_o may_v have_v be_v spare_v if_o our_o word_n have_v be_v full_o relate_v but_o by_o this_o omission_n and_o concealment_n his_o own_o speech_n have_v more_o appearance_n of_o ground_n and_o reason_n in_o it_o than_o otherwise_o it_o will_v have_v have_v and_o our_o apprehension_n do_v not_o appear_v to_o his_o reader_n as_o indeed_o it_o be_v nor_o as_o himself_o receive_v it_o from_o we_o in_o that_o our_o answer_n which_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o take_v somewhat_o unkind_o from_o he_o and_o the_o rather_o because_o it_o be_v not_o only_o once_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o that_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o in_o that_o answer_n once_o in_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o repeat_v and_o transcribe_v and_o again_o in_o pag._n 49._o where_o speak_v again_o of_o this_o same_o scripture_n numb_a 8._o v._n 10._o we_o say_v thus_o that_o we_o have_v show_v from_o that_o scripture_n that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n as_o at_o the_o first_o nor_o any_o that_o can_v convenient_o be_v get_v from_o other_o church_n than_o imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o other_o nevertheless_o though_o we_o have_v thus_o express_v ourselves_o once_o and_o a_o second_o time_n yet_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o once_o give_v notice_n hereof_o unto_o his_o reader_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o can_v find_v but_o still_o pass_v by_o these_o word_n of_o borrow_v elder_n from_o other_o church_n do_v take_v advantage_n of_o the_o want_n thereof_o which_o indeed_o be_v not_o want_v in_o our_o church_n which_o he_o deal_v against_o but_o twice_o at_o the_o least_o be_v plain_o express_v therein_o and_o will_v not_o have_v be_v want_v in_o this_o passage_n which_o here_o he_o set_v down_o as_o we_o if_o himself_o have_v not_o conceal_v and_o suppress_v the_o same_o now_o to_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v plain_o express_v two_o several_a time_n at_o the_o least_o and_o then_o to_o make_v advantage_n for_o himself_o against_o we_o for_o want_v thereof_o whether_o this_o be_v not_o such_o measure_n as_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o take_v unkind_o let_v himself_o and_o other_o consider_v the_o three_o particular_a of_o add_v word_n which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o i_o will_v brief_o pass_v over_o because_o it_o be_v of_o less_o moment_n as_o not_o so_o much_o misrepresent_v our_o meaning_n yet_o i_o conceive_v those_o word_n it_o by_o ordination_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbytery_n alone_o which_o here_o be_v present_v to_o the_o reader_n as_o we_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v in_o our_o writing_n but_o i_o will_v not_o insist_v on_o this_o but_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o his_o answer_n there_o be_v not_o say_v he_o a_o place_n in_o all_o the_o word_n of_o god_n where_o people_n conserve_v ordination_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n therefore_o our_o brethren_n flee_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o levite_n who_o receive_v imposition_n of_o band_n from_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n answ_n we_o have_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o no_o such_o scripture_n can_v be_v expect_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n viz._n because_o in_o those_o time_n elder_n be_v not_o want_v for_o there_o be_v the_o apostle_n and_o apostolic_a man_n who_o be_v elder_n in_o all_o church_n and_o say_v we_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v that_o where_o elder_n be_v not_o want_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v to_o be_v perform_v by_o the_o elder_n ans_fw-fr p._n 49._o now_o for_o our_o brethren_n to_o require_v of_o we_o a_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v without_o elder_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o which_o time_n there_o be_v elder_n to_o be_v have_v this_o we_o think_v to_o be_v unreasonable_a first_o it_o be_v our_o opinion_n that_o when_o elder_n be_v to_o be_v have_v imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o to_o be_v perform_v without_o those_o elder_n but_o by_o they_o moreover_o if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o disparagement_n to_o our_o cause_n that_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n afford_v no_o example_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o people_n how_o will_v mr._n rutherford_n free_a his_o own_o way_n from_o another_o objection_n which_o we_o think_v as_o sore_o and_o weighty_a against_o the_o same_o as_o this_o which_o they_o think_v of_o so_o much_o weight_n against_o we_o the_o objection_n i_o mean_v be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o place_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a pastor_n or_o elder_n but_o all_o the_o example_n in_o scripture_n concern_v this_o matter_n be_v such_o where_o either_o the_o person_n impose_v or_o the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v impose_v or_o both_o be_v officer_n of_o extraordinary_a note_n and_o degree_n such_o as_o now_o be_v not_o extant_a in_o the_o church_n but_o be_v cease_v long_o again_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v but_o a_o argument_n may_v be_v take_v from_o those_o example_n for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o these_o day_n but_o the_o thing_n i_o stand_v upon_o be_v this_o that_o no_o example_n can_v be_v give_v from_o scripture_n direct_o parallel_v to_o the_o way_n which_o our_o brethren_n in_o these_o day_n do_v practice_v and_o allow_v but_o some_o dissonancy_n will_v be_v find_v therein_o from_o their_o way_n as_o well_o and_o perhaps_o as_o much_o as_o from_o the_o way_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v by_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n let_v they_o tell_v we_o of_o act._n 6._o v._n 6._o and_o 14._o 23._o and_o 1._o tim._n 5._o 22._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n impose_v hand_n in_o those_o place_n be_v apostle_n and_o evangelist_n such_o as_o our_o brethren_n be_v not_o nor_o do_v so_o account_v themselves_o let_v they_o name_n act._n 13._o 3._o and_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o and_o we_o answer_v the_o person_n on_o who_o hand_n be_v there_o lay_v be_v the_o like_a even_a apostle_n and_o evangelist_n whatever_o the_o imposer_n be_v and_o therefore_o neither_o will_n these_o place_n perfect_o suit_v the_o case_n so_o that_o if_o we_o can_v give_v no_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n perform_v in_o some_o case_n by_o the_o people_n we_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n and_o out_o brethren_n of_o his_o way_n may_v be_v favourable_a to_o we_o for_o their_o own_o sake_n yet_o for_o the_o justification_n of_o our_o way_n and_o for_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o passage_n of_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o have_v this_o to_o say_v further_o that_o a_o example_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n of_o a_o practice_n not_o abolish_v in_o the_o new_a as_o ceremonial_a typical_a or_o of_o some_o peculiar_a reason_n special_o concern_v those_o time_n and_o people_n but_o of_o moral_a equity_n and_o reason_n such_o a_o example_n we_o think_v a_o sufficient_a warrant_n unto_o we_o for_o the_o like_a practice_n upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n in_o these_o day_n this_o i_o think_v mr_n rutherford_n must_v acknowledge_v for_o else_o he_o shall_v loose_v many_o argument_n which_o he_o frequent_o use_v in_o this_o treatise_n from_o the_o example_n of_o asa_n hezekiah_n josiah_n and_o other_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o the_o prove_v of_o thing_n to_o be_v practise_v in_o the_o new_a and_o else_o himself_o and_o we_o all_o shall_v loose_v the_o argument_n for_o pedobaptisme_n which_o be_v take_v from_o circumcision_n yea_o and_o which_o be_v more_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thus_o the_o apostle_n argue_v will_v not_o be_v strong_a who_o do_v frequent_o argue_v from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o confirm_v and_o prove_v truth_n and_o virtue_n and_o to_o reprove_v and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contraâ—y_n in_o the_o new_a to_o instance_n in_o no_o more_o but_o 1_o cor._n 9_o 10._o 2._o heb._n 3._o 24._o which_o example_n together_o with_o that_o say_n rom._n 15._o 4._o whatsoever_o be_v write_v in_o former_a time_n be_v write_v for_o our_o learning_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v
society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o châ—se_v the_o seven_o deacon_n acts._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 159._o chap._n 21._o whether_o congregation_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o word_n mat._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n as_o contain_v a_o rule_n and_o remedy_n for_o all_o offence_n or_o at_o the_o least_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n and_o church_n member_n and_o if_o yea_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o a_o national_n church_n must_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o remedy_n as_o well_o as_o other_o and_o so_o have_v no_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o but_o be_v subject_n to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_n counsel_n which_o yet_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v deny_v page_n 164._o chap._n 22._o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_n synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_n covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n page_n 170._o chap._n 23._o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church-meeting_n only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n page_n 175._o chap._n 24_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o no_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church-officer_n page_n 180_o chap._n 25._o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o acts._n 6_o 2_o 3_o 4._o acts._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbeterie_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o before_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o as_o well_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v page_n 196._o chap._n 26._o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o this_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbytery_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbytery_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbytery_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n page_n 206._o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o there_o come_v forth_o a_o treatise_n against_o independency_n under_o the_o name_n of_o my_o reverend_n and_o learned_a brother_n mr._n charles_n herle_n the_o pastor_n of_o winwick_n in_o lancashire_n this_o treatise_n because_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v write_v with_o such_o a_o candid_a and_o peaceable_a spirit_n as_o may_v witness_v for_o its_o author_n that_o the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o therein_o be_v mere_o the_o disquisition_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o because_o the_o author_n thereof_o be_v many_o year_n ago_o of_o my_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n tompsons_n acquaintance_n and_o i_o therefore_o we_o think_v it_o may_v not_o be_v in_o vain_a if_o we_o shall_v love_o communicate_v to_o the_o learned_a author_n such_o apprehension_n of_o we_o whereby_o we_o be_v detain_v from_o concur_v with_o his_o judgement_n in_o the_o principal_a question_n dispute_v in_o the_o say_a treatise_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o same_o year_n there_o come_v forth_o a_o small_a script_n under_o our_o name_n in_o way_n of_o a_o brotherly_a answer_n to_o that_o his_o love_a and_o learned_a treatise_n against_o this_o answer_n mr._n samuel_n rutherford_n a_o learned_a writer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n have_v allege_v and_o publish_v many_o objection_n exception_n and_o answer_n in_o his_o book_n entitle_v the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n i_o may_v call_v they_o many_o because_o in_o that_o treatise_n of_o his_o there_o be_v no_o less_o than_o 24_o or_o 25_o several_a place_n wherein_o he_o bring_v up_o by_o name_n the_o say_a answer_n dispute_v against_o sundry_a passage_n therein_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o sound_a which_o passage_n if_o they_o be_v indeed_o erroneous_a and_o unsound_a be_v a_o great_a many_o to_o be_v contain_v and_o find_v in_o so_o small_a a_o work_n the_o whole_a book_n as_o it_o be_v now_o print_v contain_v in_o it_o 30._o leaf_n so_o that_o the_o leaf_n in_o the_o book_n be_v not_o much_o more_o than_o the_o place_n therein_o which_o this_o learned_a writer_n do_v object_n against_o which_o be_v consider_v i_o think_v it_o therefore_o needful_a to_o peruse_v and_o weigh_v as_o the_o lord_n shall_v help_v the_o several_a place_n of_o his_o forementioned_a treatise_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o say_a answer_n and_o have_v so_o do_v i_o here_o present_a my_o apprehension_n to_o public_a view_n leave_v the_o prudent_a and_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v and_o judge_v whether_o this_o reverend_a and_o learned_a brother_n have_v sufficient_o overthrow_v or_o weak'n_v the_o say_a answer_n or_o whether_o the_o same_o do_v not_o still_o remain_v agreeable_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o truth_n notwithstanding_o his_o objection_n against_o the_o same_o or_o such_o answer_n as_o he_o do_v return_v to_o several_a passage_n therein_o chap._n i._n of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o may_v not_o be_v appeal_v to_o general_a council_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v yet_o deny_v first_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 315._o for_o that_o be_v the_o first_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v he_o meddle_v with_o the_o answer_n speak_v of_o doubt_n concern_v math._n 18._o 17._o tell_v the_o church_n in_o a_o 9_o the_o objection_n about_o that_o scripture_n beside_o other_o particular_n he_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o appeal_v to_o a_o high_a judicature_n because_o the_o inferior_a may_v err_v because_o all_o above_o a_o congregation_n be_v court_n which_o may_v err_v presbytery_n provincial_n national_n the_o universal_a council_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v and_o then_o for_o author_n of_o this_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v cap._n 2._o pag._n 13_o 14._o answ_n when_o he_o be_v discourse_v of_o doubt_n concern_v that_o scripture_n math_n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v bring_v those_o word_n of_o i_o at_o such_o a_o time_n or_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n for_o though_o i_o do_v acknowledge_v that_o i_o write_v the_o word_n which_o he_o have_v set_v down_o or_o such_o like_a in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v by_o i_o for_o such_o purpose_n as_o he_o do_v report_n viz._n for_o the_o clear_n of_o doubt_n concern_v the_o meaning_n of_o math._n 18_o 17._o that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o the_o chapter_n and_o page_n allege_v will_v find_v that_o i_o do_v not_o there_o meddle_v at_o all_o
proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
answer_n be_v whole_o take_v up_o and_o spend_v in_o two_o other_o thing_n the_o objection_n which_o he_o propose_v as_o we_o be_v whole_o leave_v untouched_a those_o two_o thing_n be_v these_o the_o one_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o passage_n of_o we_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n the_o other_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o last_o part_n of_o his_o objection_n which_o himself_o do_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o say_n of_o other_o and_o not_o we_o and_o therefore_o he_o bring_v it_o in_o thus_o viz._n other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n etc._n etc._n by_o those_o word_n other_o say_v plain_o declare_v that_o what_o he_o thus_o express_v proceed_v not_o from_o we_o but_o from_o other_o and_o so_o though_o he_o return_v answer_v to_o this_o say_n of_o other_o and_o to_o another_o say_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhore_n yet_o for_o this_o of_o we_o which_o he_o propose_v in_o this_o hâ—s_n objection_n i_o find_v no_o answer_n thereto_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v the_o thing_n remain_v as_o it_o be_v unless_o we_o shall_v take_v his_o mere_a propose_v of_o it_o for_o a_o satisfy_a answer_n which_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v nevertheless_o though_o he_o turn_v away_o from_o this_o passage_n of_o we_o without_o return_v any_o answer_n thereto_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o which_o he_o apply_v himself_o more_o direct_o against_o and_o therefore_o to_o this_o sixteen_o objection_n he_o beg_v his_o answer_n thus_o sure_o the_o aforesaid_a reverend_a brethren_n of_o new-england_n have_v these_o word_n but_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n from_o whence_o say_v he_o i_o infer_v that_o our_o brethren_n can_v deny_v a_o power_n of_o govern_v to_o a_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o proper_a govern_n as_o excommunication_n and_o ordination_n perform_v in_o their_o congregation_n but_o say_v i_o it_o be_v more_o proper_o govern_v as_o to_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v be_v a_o more_o noble_a eminent_a and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n than_o the_o execution_n of_o â—hese_n law_n and_o rule_n answ_n so_o then_o thâ—se_a former_a word_n of_o we_o propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o forsake_v and_o leave_v and_o instead_o of_o answer_v they_o he_o fall_v as_o we_o set_v upon_o other_o word_n which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o and_o apply_v himself_o to_o deal_v against_o those_o other_o by_o which_o deal_v the_o considerate_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o the_o former_a word_n be_v thus_o handsome_o forsake_v and_o leave_v do_v not_o still_o remain_v in_o their_o strength_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v as_o good_a never_o to_o have_v propose_v they_o at_o all_o in_o his_o objection_n as_o have_v propose_v they_o to_o turn_v away_o direct_o and_o immediate_o from_o they_o unto_o other_o matter_n without_o return_v one_o word_n of_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a the_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v consider_v what_o this_o do_v import_n but_o such_o he_o be_v please_v to_o acquit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o apply_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o therefore_o leave_v the_o former_a in_o its_o strength_n and_o unshaken_a and_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o other_o wherein_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v either_o he_o meâ—nes_n this_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n proper_o so_o call_v or_o else_o he_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o his_o name_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o and_o it_o seem_v by_o the_o instance_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n that_o he_o intend_v the_o former_a sense_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o noble_a eminent_n and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o he_o call_v it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o only_o to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n in_o heaven_n the_o scripture_n abundant_o witness_v that_o he_o only_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o law_n giver_n to_o his_o church_n lâ—â—_n 4._o 12._o isa_n 33._o 22._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o which_o point_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v consider_v that_o this_o learned_a brother_n himself_o do_v elsewhere_o direct_o and_o in_o express_a term_n coâ—fesse_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v in_o this_o matter_n for_o in_o one_o place_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n of_o a_o power_n to_o prescribe_v rule_n and_o law_n he_o do_v not_o only_o distinguish_v they_o from_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v by_o the_o word_n directive_n call_v they_o directive_n law_n but_o also_o for_o further_o explain_v his_o mind_n annex_v these_o word_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o law_n which_o the_o church_n prescribe_v christ_n be_v the_o only_a lawgiver_n due_a right_n page_n 395._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v speak_v of_o a_o society_n or_o a_o synod_n power_n of_o make_v law_n he_o add_v for_o explanation_n thus_o i_o take_v not_o here_o law_n for_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o for_o ministerial_a directory_n have_v ecclesiastical_a authority_n so_o then_o the_o church_n or_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o christ_n â—s_v the_o only_a law_n giver_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o govern_v power_n of_o synod_n which_o our_o brother_n will_v prove_v by_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a and_o high_a power_n of_o make_v law_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o at_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a power_n of_o make_v law_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o to_o christ_n only_o and_o this_o may_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o what_o he_o say_v or_o a_o synod_n power_n to_o make_v law_n it_o law_n be_v take_v in_o their_o proper_a sense_n but_o if_o he_o intend_v not_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n in_o the_o place_n we_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o only_o the_o latter_a viz_o that_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o than_o i_o confess_v the_o answer_n in_o the_o 7_o the_o page_n thereof_o do_v acknowledge_v such_o power_n to_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o how_o this_o can_v prove_v their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n proper_o so_o call_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v thence_o infer_v we_o for_o our_o part_n do_v not_o yet_o perceive_v for_o the_o power_n here_o describe_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n and_o we_o have_v give_v sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o answer_n pag._n 43._o 44._o to_o show_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o power_n by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o where_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o power_n by_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n to_o punish_v the_o breach_n of_o those_o rule_n which_o instance_n this_o reverend_a brother_n do_v not_o satisfy_v at_o all_o and_o therefore_o though_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o which_o power_n we_o deny_v they_o not_o yet_o that_o which_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v that_o they_o have_v also_o a_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o unless_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n doctrine_n and_o jurisdiction_n or_o government_n be_v the_o same_o brief_o thus_o a_o power_n of_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v be_v a_o noble_a and_o eminent_a kind_n of_o government_n but_o this_o power_n do_v not_o belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o to_o christ_n a_o power_n of_o clear_n up_o christ_n law_n and_o command_v in_o his_o name_n obedience_n thereunto_o do_v belong_v unto_o synod_n but_o this_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o government_n but_o a_o ministerial_a power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o still_o our_o tenent_n do_v stand_v that_o a_o synod_n if_o it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n second_o say_v our_o author_n our_o brethren_n incline_v to_o make_v a_o synod_n a_o teach_a church_n answ_n we_o never_o yet_o absolute_o yield_v that_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n 〈◊〉_d on_o the_o contrary_a we_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o in_o scripture_n the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n be_v give_v to_o a_o
though_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n the_o case_n be_v ordinary_a as_o in_o the_o dominion_n of_o wales_n there_o be_v scarce_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v find_v within_o 20_o or_o 30_o mile_n 2._o suppose_v the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o rare_a may_v they_o violate_v the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o christ_n for_o so_o some_o may_v think_v and_o say_v that_o though_o according_a to_o ordinary_a rule_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n must_v be_v dispense_v only_o by_o man_n and_o by_o minister_n yet_o in_o the_o want_n of_o these_o the_o one_o may_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o woman_n or_o midwife_n and_o both_o of_o they_o by_o such_o as_o be_v no_o minister_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n our_o author_n scope_n and_o intention_n be_v to_o prove_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n i_o can_v apprehend_v a_o good_a reason_n why_o now_o he_o shall_v fall_v upon_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n allege_v in_o as_o much_o at_o the_o place_n make_v not_o any_o mention_n of_o jerusalem_n at_o all_o nor_o of_o any_o presbyterial_a church_n there_o either_o one_o way_n or_o other_o but_o it_o seem_v he_o be_v willing_a to_o go_v something_o out_o of_o his_o way_n that_o so_o he_o may_v have_v a_o say_n to_o the_o answer_n yet_o if_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v so_o i_o can_v have_v desire_v that_o the_o word_n of_o the_o answer_n may_v have_v be_v keep_v without_o make_v alteration_n by_o leave_v some_o thing_n out_o and_o put_v other_o in_o of_o his_o own_o accord_n and_o by_o mention_v other_o with_o another_o face_n than_o be_v ever_o intend_v by_o we_o for_o though_o he_o be_v please_v to_o mention_v a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o the_o first_o found_v congregation_n at_o jerusalem_n in_o his_o objection_n which_o heâ—_n bring_v in_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o yet_o he_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n will_v find_v that_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v once_o mention_v by_o we_o at_o all_o and_o why_o then_o they_o shall_v be_v bring_v in_o as_o we_o i_o do_v not_o know_v and_o for_o the_o former_a part_n of_o our_o answer_n wherein_o we_o show_v that_o for_o a_o christian_a congregation_n to_o want_v neighbour_n congregation_n to_o who_o they_o may_v with_o conveniency_n have_v recourse_n and_o not_o so_o unusual_a as_o some_o may_v imagine_v we_o do_v not_o only_o allege_v for_o that_o end_n the_o dominion_n of_o wales_n as_o our_o brother_n do_v report_n but_o also_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o north_n and_o special_o the_o state_n of_o thing_n in_o time_n and_o place_n of_o general_a persecution_n and_o general_a profaneness_n and_o new_a plantation_n in_o heathen_a country_n all_o which_o our_o brother_n do_v omit_v as_o if_o we_o have_v not_o mention_v any_o of_o they_o and_o whereas_o we_o mention_v the_o scarcity_n of_o congregation_n in_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o wales_n and_o of_o the_o north_n as_o intimate_v by_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n in_o that_o learned_a and_o love_a discourse_n of_o he_o whereto_o we_o do_v apply_v our_o answer_n mr._n rutherford_n conceal_v that_o we_o do_v mention_v this_o as_o the_o apprehension_n or_o intimation_n of_o another_o and_o instead_o thereof_o make_v bold_a to_o set_v it_o down_o under_o our_o name_n as_o if_o we_o have_v deliver_v it_o as_o our_o own_o all_o which_o alteration_n omission_n and_o addition_n be_v such_o as_o we_o for_o our_o part_n will_v not_o willing_o have_v make_v the_o like_a in_o any_o work_n of_o he_o nor_o of_o any_o other_o man_n for_o let_v such_o liberty_n as_o this_o be_v take_v in_o repeat_v what_o man_n do_v speak_v or_o write_v and_o misapprehension_n of_o their_o true_a â—ntent_n and_o meaning_n must_v needs_o be_v breed_v hereby_o in_o the_o mind_n of_o all_o those_o that_o shall_v read_v or_o hear_v such_o report_n and_o believe_v the_o same_o nevertheless_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o our_o brother_n do_v return_v in_o his_o answer_n we_o think_v say_v he_o a_o ministry_n and_o discipline_n more_o necessary_a to_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n or_o to_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n before_o they_o increase_v to_o such_o a_o number_n as_o can_v meet_v for_o their_o numerous_a multitude_n in_o one_o congregation_n than_o the_o sacrament_n when_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n to_o dispense_v they_o answ_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o thâ—se_a word_n and_o the_o other_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o objection_n that_o we_o have_v speak_v something_o of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o of_o the_o church_n in_o jerusalem_n else_o why_o shall_v these_o be_v object_v and_o answer_v as_o we_o but_o the_o truth_n be_v we_o have_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n either_o of_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o of_o these_o particular_n which_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o shall_v view_v the_o place_n something_o we_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o general_a of_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n which_o we_o do_v be_v thereunto_o lead_v by_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n but_o of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n and_o of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n in_o particular_a of_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o speak_v of_o these_o we_o have_v say_v nothing_o second_o the_o former_a part_n of_o our_o answer_n that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o so_o unusual_a as_o some_o may_v imagine_v this_o mr._n rutherford_n whole_o pass_v over_o in_o silence_n only_o he_o propound_v it_o in_o his_o objection_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o we_o have_v hear_v and_o so_o leave_v it_o whereby_o it_o seem_v he_o yield_v the_o thing_n and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v yield_v frequent_o lawful_a it_o be_v frequent_o see_v that_o congregation_n want_v neighbour_n in_o which_o case_n their_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v not_o deny_v three_o for_o the_o second_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n we_o thus_o express_v ourselves_o therein_o viz._n that_o we_o suppose_v it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o extraordinary_a case_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n whereof_o we_o render_v the_o reason_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o minister_a sacrament_n by_o non-minister_n in_o case_n minister_n be_v want_v this_o be_v that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n if_o therefore_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v take_v away_o what_o we_o have_v say_v herein_o he_o must_v say_v it_o be_v not_o good_a nor_o needful_a to_o take_v such_o heed_n but_o man_n may_v yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o case_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o never_o need_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o they_o yield_v therein_o this_o indeed_o be_v contradictory_n to_o what_o we_o have_v say_v and_o if_o this_o be_v once_o clear_v for_o truth_n than_o i_o must_v confess_v our_o say_n be_v clear_o disprove_v but_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o we_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v never_o attempt_v sure_o yet_o he_o have_v not_o do_v it_o and_o so_o our_o say_n yet_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v four_o whereas_o he_o say_v he_o think_v a_o ministry_n and_o discipline_n more_o necessary_a in_o the_o case_n he_o speak_v of_o than_o sacrament_n and_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n though_o this_o be_v not_o direct_o opposite_a to_o what_o we_o have_v say_v yet_o because_o i_o will_v consider_v of_o every_o thing_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o aim_v at_o we_o therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v of_o this_o also_o our_o reverend_a brother_n think_v discipline_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o in_o his_o page_n 287_o 288._o handle_v that_o question_n whether_o discipline_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o lay_v down_o sundry_a distinction_n about_o the_o same_o he_o give_v we_o these_o several_a proposition_n in_o term_n first_o care_v to_o exercise_v discipline_n may_v be_v want_v in_o a_o true_a church_n second_o right_a discipline_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n as_o a_o city_n may_v be_v without_o wall_n a_o garden_n without_o a_o hedge_n three_o the_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n may_v be_v want_v and_o the_o church_n a_o true_a visible_a church_n four_o the_o church_n may_v retain_v the_o essence_n and_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o yet_o have_v no_o discipline_n in_o actual_a use_n or_o little_a in_o which_o place_n he_o cite_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o parker_n cartwright_n and_o other_o who_o make_v discipline_n necessary_a only_o to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v not_o indifferent_a but_o command_v in_o the_o word_n and_o necessary_a in_o
necessity_n will_v warrant_v a_o man_n to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o church_n which_o two_o saying_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o agree_v for_o in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v affirm_v that_o if_o they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o may_v by_o the_o like_a reason_n administer_v sacrament_n and_o the_o other_o say_v they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n and_o yet_o both_o the_o say_n be_v express_v by_o the_o same_o author_n pen._n chap._n xi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 455._o where_o he_o bring_v in_o these_o word_n under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o viz._n if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o a_o congregation_n be_v essential_o a_o church_n than_o this_o power_n agree_v to_o all_o church_n whether_o consociate_v or_o not_o consociate_v and_o without_o respect_n of_o what_o neighbour_n they_o have_v whether_o many_o or_o few_o whether_o any_o or_o none_o second_o a_o congregation_n itself_o alone_o can_v have_v sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o then_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o when_o god_n send_v neighbour_n for_o then_o neighbour_a church_n which_o be_v give_v for_o help_n shall_v be_v give_v for_o loss_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o ames_n say_v no._n do_v synod_n say_v he_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n thus_o far_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o in_o his_o margin_n allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o 16._o pag._n 4_o 5._o answ_n in_o one_o of_o these_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n p._n 5._o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v that_o look_n towards_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o our_o brother_n have_v in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o this_o page_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v here_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n be_v more_o imperfect_o cite_v by_o our_o brother_n than_o they_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n for_o the_o answer_n allege_v they_o thus_o out_o of_o medulla_n theol._n lib._n 1._o chapter_n 3._o sect_n 27._o that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n do_v neither_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o ought_v by_o any_o mean_n to_o take_v away_o or_o impayer_n that_o liberty_n and_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n since_o it_o serve_v only_o for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o whereas_o our_o brother_n express_v only_o those_o first_o word_n that_o synod_n do_v not_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n wherein_o the_o chief_a strength_n of_o dr._n ames_n his_o testimony_n do_v lie_v they_o he_o do_v whole_o omit_v and_o leave_v out_o he_o also_o leave_v out_o the_o assent_n which_o be_v give_v by_o mr._n paget_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o dr._n ames_n which_o assent_n as_o it_o be_v express_v in_o his_o defence_n p._n 107._o in_o these_o word_n this_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v be_v also_o in_o the_o â—ame_n word_n allege_v by_o the_o answer_n in_o p._n 4._o but_o this_o be_v whole_o pass_v over_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n in_o silence_n now_o two_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n as_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v neither_o tollere_fw-la nor_o minuere_fw-la take_v away_o not_o impair_v or_o diminish_v the_o liberty_n or_o power_n of_o church_n but_o only_o serve_v for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o one_o of_o they_o be_v the_o chief_a patron_n of_o the_o power_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n it_o be_v some_o marvel_n to_o i_o that_o no_o word_n of_o answer_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o they_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n but_o that_o their_o word_n be_v thus_o pass_v by_o with_o silence_n and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v how_o ever_o this_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o that_o gainsay_v the_o answer_n in_o this_o passage_n have_v not_o only_o the_o answer_n but_o also_o the_o reverend_a author_n here_o mention_v to_o be_v against_o he_o but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n which_o he_o subjoin_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n ergo_fw-la a_o total_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o congregation_n consociate_v it_o follow_v no_o way_n answ_n i_o desire_v the_o reason_n may_v be_v lay_v down_o according_a to_o our_o true_a meaning_n therein_o and_o in_o its_o full_a strength_n and_o then_o the_o former_a part_n thereof_o must_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v neighbour_n but_o of_o entire_a power_n for_o thereof_o be_v the_o question_n and_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n the_o term_n must_v no_o be_v a_o church_n consociate_v but_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n now_o if_o entire_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n this_o entireness_n of_o power_n muâ—t_v thereupon_o be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o then_o demand_v why_o the_o like_a entireness_n of_o power_n must_v not_o be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o this_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v either_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n must_v be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n must_v be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n risibility_n and_o power_n of_o reason_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n and_o power_n to_o defend_v itself_o and_o purge_v out_o excrement_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o power_n to_o govern_v itself_o with_o family_n government_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n therefore_o we_o must_v not_o grant_v these_o power_n to_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o man_n such_o a_o body_n or_o such_o a_o family_n as_o be_v alone_o and_o deny_v the_o same_o to_o one_o that_o have_v neighbour_n but_o must_v grant_v they_o alike_o unto_o all_o because_o this_o power_n flow_v from_o their_o very_a essence_n which_o be_v as_o true_o find_v in_o such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v in_o other_o case_n and_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o church_n shall_v therefore_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n and_o yet_o not_o entire_a in_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n though_o this_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o why_o these_o congregation_n i_o say_v shall_v thus_o great_o differ_v in_o their_o power_n and_o yet_o be_v alike_o in_o their_o essence_n from_o whence_o their_o power_n do_v flow_v for_o my_o part_n i_o yet_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o reason_n nor_o do_v that_o satisfy_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o allege_v that_o one_o pastor_n in_o a_o congregation_n have_v as_o a_o pastor_n power_n to_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o when_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o help_v he_o he_o have_v not_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o these_o three_o pastor_n have_v power_n with_o he_o this_o i_o conceive_v do_v not_o help_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o these_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o the_o first_o have_v each_o of_o they_o the_o like_a power_n as_o the_o first_o have_v yet_o the_o power_n of_o the_o
hear_v matter_n propose_v to_o they_o to_o consider_v thereof_o and_o upon_o like_v to_o put_v they_o in_o execution_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n so_o in_o this_o particular_a of_o make_v election_n of_o officer_n as_o there_o they_o be_v record_v to_o have_v do_v and_o as_o for_o the_o other_o place_n act._n 21._o though_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o those_o many_o thousand_o jew_n that_o believe_v be_v all_o member_n of_o that_o one_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n yet_o it_o can_v be_v any_o question_n whether_o they_o may_v come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n since_o james_n and_o the_o elder_n do_v express_o there_o say_v unto_o paul_n the_o multitude_n must_v needs_o come_v together_o for_o they_o will_v hear_v that_o thou_o be_v come_v nor_o can_v we_o say_v they_o may_v come_v together_o only_o distributive_o in_o sundry_a company_n but_o not_o all_o in_o one_o place_n for_o the_o end_n of_o their_o come_n together_o will_v not_o bear_v that_o exposition_n which_o end_n be_v that_o they_o may_v see_v and_o hear_v paul_n and_o try_v what_o satisfaction_n he_o will_v give_v they_o in_o the_o matter_n whereof_o they_o be_v inform_v of_o he_o that_o he_o teach_v the_o jew_n to_o forsake_v moses_n and_o to_o omit_v circumcision_n and_o other_o jewish_a custom_n these_o thing_n they_o be_v inform_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o he_o among_o the_o gentile_n and_o hear_v that_o he_o be_v come_v to_o the_o city_n they_o must_v needs_o come_v together_o to_o hear_v what_o he_o will_v say_v to_o the_o matter_n and_o how_o he_o will_v clear_v himself_o now_o if_o this_o be_v the_o end_n of_o their_o come_n together_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o their_o come_n be_v altogether_o unto_o one_o place_n and_o not_o in_o several_a company_n for_o this_o can_v not_o answer_v their_o end_n inasmuch_o as_o paul_n be_v but_o one_o person_n it_o be_v not_o possible_a they_o can_v see_v he_o nor_o hear_v he_o in_o sundry_a place_n at_o once_o and_o therefore_o they_o may_v as_o well_o have_v stay_v at_o home_n and_o not_o have_v come_v together_o at_o all_o as_o come_v together_o in_o such_o sort_n plain_o it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o multitude_n speak_v of_o in_o these_o two_o scripture_n be_v not_o so_o many_o but_o they_o may_v meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n which_o point_n as_o something_o have_v be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n p._n 34_o 35._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o so_o i_o be_o the_o more_o confirm_v in_o it_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o deal_v concern_v these_o scripture_n for_o though_o he_o make_v mention_n of_o they_o in_o this_o place_n as_o we_o see_v and_o of_o that_o apprehension_n of_o my_o concern_v those_o scripture_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v the_o ground_n which_o be_v give_v for_o that_o apprehension_n in_o the_o answer_n but_o do_v whole_o pass_v they_o by_o in_o silence_n now_o take_v occasion_n to_o speak_v of_o the_o scripture_n and_o relate_v what_o my_o apprehension_n be_v concern_v the_o same_o and_o yet_o say_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o the_o gronnd_n whereon_o that_o apprehension_n be_v build_v it_o seem_v hereby_o to_o be_v employ_v that_o indeed_o he_o have_v nothing_o in_o readiness_n to_o object_n against_o the_o same_o so_o that_o i_o may_v still_o conceive_v of_o those_o scripture_n as_o i_o do_v before_o for_o any_o thing_n yet_o bring_v to_o induce_v i_o to_o be_v of_o another_o mind_n as_o for_o that_o which_o next_o follow_v certain_o the_o apostle_n practice_n must_v be_v our_o rule_n and_o then_o 500_o or_o 1000_o be_v so_o far_o beneath_o 10_o or_o 8000_o may_v well_o seem_v a_o number_n for_o fewness_n not_o competent_a and_o what_o shall_v we_o then_o think_v of_o 7_o only_a or_o 10._o answ_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o apostle_n practice_n do_v not_o at_o all_o condemn_v we_o though_o our_o congregation_n have_v not_o in_o they_o the_o like_a number_n but_o sometime_o more_o and_o sometime_o less_o for_o be_v it_o not_o so_o in_o that_o primative_a apostolic_a church_n be_v it_o not_o plain_a that_o that_o church_n be_v for_o number_n far_o lesser_a at_o the_o first_o than_o afterward_o when_o they_o grow_v to_o 4000_o or_o more_o and_o yet_o after_o this_o they_o grow_v to_o be_v few_o again_o when_o persecution_n scatter_v they_o all_o abroad_o except_o the_o apostle_n act._n 8._o 1._o and_o therefore_o if_o 10_o or_o 8000_o be_v once_o the_o number_n in_o that_o church_n be_v a_o rule_n condemn_v out_o church_n as_o be_v for_o fewness_n not_o competent_a when_o they_o be_v beneath_o that_o number_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o practice_n of_o that_o church_n at_o one_o time_n shall_v be_v a_o rule_n for_o the_o condemn_v of_o itself_o at_o another_o time_n for_o sure_a it_o be_v their_o number_n be_v not_o at_o all_o time_n alike_o but_o sometime_o more_o and_o sometime_o less_o as_o in_o the_o sea_n it_o be_v not_o always_o full_a tide_n but_o sometime_o low_a ebb_n nor_o be_v the_o moon_n always_o at_o full_a but_o sometime_o at_o the_o change_n nay_o if_o the_o apostle_n practice_n must_v be_v our_o rule_n than_o inasmuch_o as_o their_o church_n have_v not_o always_o the_o like_a number_n of_o member_n in_o they_o but_o sometime_o the_o number_n be_v great_a and_o sometime_o lesser_a it_o will_v follow_v therefore_o that_o the_o number_n of_o member_n in_o our_o church_n need_v not_o always_o to_o be_v the_o same_o but_o though_o great_a number_n be_v lawful_a yet_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o lesser_a number_n may_v not_o be_v deny_v chap._n fourteen_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v one_o church_n meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n etc._n etc._n do_v make_v for_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o for_o one_o only_a page_n 464._o i_o can_v but_o think_v that_o weak_a which_o mr._n mather_n and_o mr._n tompson_n say_v answer_v page_n 37._o the_o place_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o that_o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o to_o one_o place_n do_v unavoidable_o prove_v that_o corinth_n have_v their_o meeting_n and_o not_o by_o way_n of_o distribution_n into_o several_a congregation_n but_o altogether_o in_o one_o congregation_n and_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o though_o they_o have_v variety_n of_o teacher_n and_o prophet_n yet_o they_o all_o use_v to_o come_v together_o to_o one_o place_n answ_n if_o that_o which_o we_o say_v be_v weak_a it_o be_v more_o easy_a for_o one_o of_o such_o ability_n and_o strength_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n to_o overthrow_v the_o same_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o word_n that_o will_v suffice_v but_o weight_n of_o reason_n that_o must_v avail_v thereto_o let_v we_o hear_v therefore_o his_o answer_n to_o this_o passage_n which_o he_o think_v and_o censure_n to_o be_v so_o weak_a the_o place_n say_v he_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o etc._n etc._n death_n evince_n the_o contrary_n for_o the_o apostle_n do_v there_o reason_n ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la from_o a_o great_a incongruity_n it_o be_v incongruous_a say_v he_o and_o ridiculous_a that_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o corinth_n and_o all_o their_o guifted_a man_n speak_v with_o tongue_n so_o that_o they_o can_v not_o be_v understand_v by_o infidel_n shall_v all_o convene_v in_o one_o place_n and_o speak_v with_o divers_a tongue_n for_o the_o unlearned_a and_o unbeliever_n will_v say_v they_o be_v mad_a therefore_o he_o presuppose_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v not_o all_o come_v to_o one_o place_n but_o that_o they_o shall_v so_o come_v to_o one_o place_n in_o divers_a assembly_n answ_n and_o be_v it_o true_a indeed_o that_o this_o place_n do_v evince_v the_o contrary_a viz._n that_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n do_v not_o all_o meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v assure_v that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v evince_v by_o the_o place_n for_o as_o for_o the_o reason_n give_v etc._n etc._n that_o the_o apostle_n dâ—th_v there_o reason_n ab_fw-la absurdo_fw-la or_o from_o great_a incongruity_n this_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o thing_n at_o all_o partly_o because_o they_o may_v practice_v something_o that_o be_v not_o meet_v but_o have_v incongruity_n in_o it_o and_o partly_o and_o more_o especial_o because_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o lay_v the_o absurdity_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v it_o viz._n in_o the_o convening_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n in_o one_o place_n but_o in_o their_o speak_n with_o strange_a tongue_n when_o they_o be_v convene_v and_o come_v together_o touch_v the_o former_a of_o these_o mr._n rutherford_n reason_v to_o this_o effect_n if_o it_o be_v a_o incongruous_a
or_o unâ—it_a thing_n that_o the_o whole_a church_n at_o corinth_n shall_v come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n than_o they_o do_v not_o so_o come_v together_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o in_o which_o kind_n of_o reason_v such_o be_v our_o weakness_n we_o think_v neither_o part_n of_o the_o argument_n to_o be_v free_a from_o just_a exception_n for_o as_o we_o whole_o deny_v the_o assumption_n so_o we_o also_o think_v there_o be_v no_o sufficient_a strength_n of_o consequence_n in_o the_o main_a proposition_n forasmuch_o as_o sundry_a thing_n be_v practise_v in_o that_o church_n which_o be_v no_o way_n fit_v not_o meet_v to_o be_v practise_v and_o which_o the_o apostle_n do_v therefore_o reprove_v and_o seek_v the_o redress_n of_o the_o same_o witness_v their_o faction_n and_o division_n chap._n 1._o &_o 3_o their_o neglect_a church_n censure_v against_o the_o incestuous_a person_n and_o on_o the_o contrary_n be_v puff_v up_o chap._n 5._o their_n go_v to_o law_n one_o with_o another_o before_o the_o infidel_n chap._n 6._o their_o abuse_n in_o prayer_n and_o prophesy_v their_o woman_n uncover_v and_o their_o man_n cover_v chap._n 11._o their_o abuse_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n when_o they_o so_o come_v unto_o it_o that_o one_o be_v hungry_a and_o another_o drunken_a chap._n 11._o now_o as_o it_o be_v a_o unsufficient_a kind_n of_o argue_v to_o say_v these_o thing_n be_v unfit_a and_o unmeet_a and_o therefore_o that_o church_n do_v not_o so_o practice_v even_o so_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o argue_v seem_v to_o be_v no_o better_o who_o will_v prove_v they_o do_v come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n because_o the_o apostle_n as_o he_o think_v do_v count_v such_o come_n together_o unmeet_a for_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o such_o a_o come_n have_v be_v unmeet_a yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v but_o such_o may_v be_v their_o practice_n notwithstanding_o and_o therefore_o as_o he_o count_v our_o apprehension_n in_o this_o matter_n to_o be_v weak_a so_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o himself_o and_o other_o to_o consider_v whether_o in_o this_o consequence_n it_o be_v not_o meet_v they_o shall_v all_o come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n ergo_fw-la they_o do_v it_o not_o be_v very_o strong_a i_o desire_v here_o not_o to_o be_v mistake_v for_o i_o do_v not_o grant_v that_o their_o come_n together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v unmeet_a nor_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v reprove_v they_o for_o the_o same_o i_o have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a in_o deny_v the_o assumption_n afore_o mention_v which_o i_o do_v still_o deny_v but_o the_o thing_n i_o intend_v be_v to_o consider_v the_o strength_n of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o reason_n and_o for_o that_o cause_n to_o apply_v it_o to_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n which_o i_o still_o desire_v to_o keep_v close_o unto_o if_o it_o may_v be_v now_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v so_o many_o at_o that_o they_o can_v nor_o meet_v together_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o have_v many_o congregation_n and_o all_o but_o one_o church_n and_o mr_n rutherford_n maintain_v the_o affirmative_a and_o bring_v this_o reason_n for_o it_o take_v from_o the_o congruity_n of_o meet_v all_o together_o i_o therefore_o think_v meet_v to_o weigh_v the_o strength_n of_o this_o reason_n which_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v to_o be_v in_o any_o wise_a convince_a but_o suppose_v the_o apostle_n have_v count_v such_o meeting_n inconvenient_a and_o unmeet_a yet_o this_o reason_n as_o i_o conceive_v be_v too_o weak_a to_o prove_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o purpose_n that_o their_o number_n be_v such_o as_o that_o they_o can_v not_o all_o possible_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n for_o they_o may_v possible_o do_v that_o which_o be_v unmeet_a to_o be_v do_v in_o this_o particular_a as_o well_o as_o they_o do_v in_o many_o other_o thing_n but_o in_o this_o particular_a i_o do_v not_o think_v they_o do_v any_o thing_n absurd_a or_o unmeet_a at_o all_o and_o therefore_o for_o further_a answer_n to_o this_o reason_n i_o will_v say_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o say_v the_o absurdity_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v it_o to_o wit_n in_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v convene_v and_o come_v together_o but_o in_o speak_v with_o strange_a tongue_n when_o they_o be_v convene_v this_o latter_a be_v incongruous_a and_o absurd_a indeed_o for_o the_o infidel_n come_v into_o the_o church_n assembly_n and_o hear_v they_o so_o speak_v may_v think_v they_o mad_a as_o the_o apostle_n say_v but_o for_o assemble_v all_o in_o one_o place_n i_o know_v no_o madness_n that_o be_v in_o that_o nor_o show_v thereof_o nor_o do_v i_o yet_o believe_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v place_v the_o absurdity_n there_o for_o though_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v a_o worthy_a man_n and_o learned_a yet_o such_o a_o thing_n as_o this_o have_v need_n of_o some_o further_a proof_n than_o his_o bare_a word_n if_o a_o church_n shall_v meet_v distributive_o in_o divers_a assembly_n and_o be_v so_o meet_v shall_v speak_v with_o strange_a tongue_n i_o demand_v whether_o this_o manner_n of_o speak_v do_v prove_v such_o a_o way_n of_o meet_v absurd_a i_o suppose_v he_o will_v say_v no_o because_o it_o be_v the_o way_n of_o meeting_n which_o he_o hold_v the_o apostolic_a church_n do_v use_v and_o if_o so_o then_o suppose_v they_o shall_v so_o speak_v with_o strange_a tongue_n when_o they_o meet_v collective_o all_o in_o one_o assembly_n how_o can_v this_o manner_n of_o speak_v conclude_v the_o absurdity_n of_o such_o kind_n of_o meet_v any_o more_o than_o it_o do_v in_o the_o other_o for_o my_o part_n though_o such_o kind_n of_o speak_v have_v incongruity_n and_o inconveniency_n in_o it_o yet_o i_o conceive_v assemble_v collective_o and_o in_o one_o congregation_n be_v no_o more_o prejudice_v thereby_o then_o assemble_v distributive_o in_o many_o he_o that_o be_v the_o apostle_n presuppose_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v come_v to_o one_o place_n in_o divers_a assembly_n and_o all_o prophecy_n in_o a_o tongue_n know_v to_o the_o infidel_n as_o the_o unbeliever_n be_v convince_v and_o judge_v of_o all_o the_o prophet_n may_v fall_v down_o in_o his_o face_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o the_o prophet_n be_v meet_v in_o divers_a assembly_n at_o once_o i_o marvel_v how_o the_o unbeliever_n shall_v be_v convince_v and_o judge_v of_o they_o all_o for_o i_o hope_v one_o singular_a and_o individual_a unbeliever_n be_v not_o present_a in_o divers_a assembly_n at_o once_o nor_o convince_v and_o judge_v as_o here_o he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v by_o those_o prophet_n from_o who_o assembly_n he_o be_v absent_a either_o therefore_o the_o prophet_n be_v all_o meet_v in_o one_o assembly_n and_o not_o in_o divers_a or_o else_o it_o be_v yet_o a_o quaere_fw-la how_o he_o can_v be_v convince_v by_o they_o all_o for_o sure_a the_o unbeliever_n can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o sundry_a assembly_n at_o once_o page_n 465._o the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n of_o corinth_n that_o believe_v that_o do_v ordinary_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n the_o text_n say_v no_o such_o thing_n and_o that_o be_v to_o be_v prove_v and_o not_o take_v as_o grant_v answ_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n of_o corinth_n that_o believe_v this_o do_v nothing_o prejudice_v our_o cause_n for_o as_o much_o as_o our_o question_n be_v not_o about_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v but_o about_o the_o whole_a church_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n collective_o do_v come_v together_o in_o one_o place_n we_o have_v what_o we_o desire_v and_o require_v no_o more_o as_o for_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v whether_o this_o be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o former_a or_o no_o we_o shall_v have_v no_o need_n to_o prove_v or_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o these_o do_v in_o like_a manner_n come_v together_o for_o as_o much_o as_o our_o question_n in_o the_o term_n of_o it_o be_v not_o about_o these_o but_o about_o the_o other_o but_o why_o be_v not_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v shall_v we_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v more_o than_o the_o people_n that_o believe_v or_o shall_v we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o i_o conceive_v it_o must_v be_v one_o of_o these_o or_o else_o it_o must_v be_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v it_o be_v more_o than_o still_o we_o have_v our_o desire_n if_o not_o more_o than_o we_o demand_v for_o if_o a_o company_n that_o be_v great_a than_o all_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v nevertheless_o not_o so_o great_a but_o they_o may_v and_o do_v assemble_v in_o one_o congregation_n
and_o hold_v by_o the_o whole_a this_o reason_n we_o see_v be_v now_o remove_v and_o utter_o take_v away_o forasmuch_o as_o all_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n which_o be_v the_o inevitable_a now_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o the_o general_a council_n than_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o council_n for_o such_o a_o end_n and_o if_o no_o appeal_n to_o that_o council_n than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o always_o hold_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o lesser_a assembly_n to_o the_o great_a and_o if_o this_o do_v not_o always_o hold_v then_o there_o may_v be_v independent_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n without_o appeal_n from_o the_o same_o though_o it_o be_v a_o lesser_a assembly_n than_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n and_o thus_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v except_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o supreme_a or_o independent_a power_n which_o be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n can_v be_v prove_v to_o be_v in_o the_o class_n synod_n or_o national_a presbytery_n which_o we_o think_v can_v be_v do_v indeed_o to_o say_v on_o the_o one_o side_n that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v no_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o congregation_n and_o to_o say_v on_o the_o other_o side_n that_o there_o be_v no_o power_n at_o all_o of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n this_o do_v inevitable_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o such_o independent_a power_n in_o these_o intermediat_a assembly_n of_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_a presbytery_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v no_o such_o power_n at_o all_o appoint_v by_o christ_n in_o any_o church_n assembly_n on_o earth_n now_o if_o such_o independent_a power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o presbytery_n mention_v as_o it_o needs_o must_v if_o it_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o general_a council_n nor_o in_o the_o single_a congregation_n than_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o scripture_n or_o scripture_n such_o power_n in_o the_o say_a presbytery_n be_v ground_v and_o build_v and_o whether_o the_o say_a power_n belong_v unto_o they_o all_o or_o only_o unto_o some_o of_o they_o and_o which_o they_o be_v and_o why_o not_o to_o the_o rest_n as_o well_o yea_o why_o not_o to_o the_o single_a congregation_n nor_o yet_o to_o the_o general_a council_n as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o they_o when_o this_o quaere_fw-la be_v answer_v and_o the_o answer_n sufficient_o prove_v by_o scripture_n than_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o reason_n for_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o such_o assembly_n over_o the_o particular_a congregation_n then_o yet_o we_o have_v see_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n this_o quaere_fw-la with_o the_o rest_n i_o leave_v to_o our_o brethren_n consideration_n chap._n xx._n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o it_o will_v not_o thence_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o choose_v the_o seven_o deacon_n act._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a pag_n 482._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n for_o which_o he_o allege_v the_o answ_n pag._n 20._o and_o then_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n thus_o i_o see_v this_o say_v without_o any_o approbation_n church_n depend_v on_o many_o above_o they_o for_o unity_n but_o what_o consquence_n in_o this_o ergâ—_fw-la they_o depend_v upon_o one_o visible_a monarch_n it_o be_v a_o unjust_a consequence_n answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o man_n he_o great_o wrong_v our_o word_n and_o thereby_o wrong_v the_o reader_n by_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n wherein_o the_o plainness_n and_o strength_n of_o our_o argumentation_n lie_v therefore_o i_o be_o force_v here_o to_o relate_v the_o order_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o dispute_n in_o that_o script_n of_o we_o and_o to_o set_v down_o our_o word_n there_o use_v because_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v set_v they_o down_o the_o strength_n of_o consequence_n be_v suppress_v from_o the_o reader_n knowledge_n and_o so_o indeed_o his_o answer_n be_v make_v easy_a but_o the_o naked_a truth_n lie_v thus_o our_o reverend_a brother_n to_o who_o treatise_n we_o return_v answer_v in_o that_o small_a piece_n of_o we_o have_v say_v that_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o whether_o commonwealth_n or_o army_n university_n or_o navy_n he_o present_o add_v by_o way_n of_o prevention_n not_o that_o therefore_o this_o government_n of_o church_n shall_v as_o those_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n upon_o earth_n in_o answer_v whereto_o beside_o other_o thing_n we_o have_v these_o word_n pag._n 21._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o than_o we_o see_v not_o how_o it_o will_v be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n if_o it_o be_v once_o clear_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n whatever_o so_o to_o end_v so_o there_o be_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o this_o as_o for_o the_o other_o which_o last_o word_n if_o it_o be_v once_o prove_v etc._n etc._n mr._n rutherford_n whole_o leave_v out_o and_o suppress_v and_o so_o make_v his_o own_o answer_n more_o easy_a but_o i_o desire_v so_o much_o favour_n which_o i_o think_v be_v but_o reasonable_a that_o he_o that_o will_v undertake_v to_o answer_v our_o writing_n will_v represent_v our_o word_n and_o argue_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o then_o i_o be_o content_a that_o the_o same_o may_v come_v under_o trial_n now_o our_o argue_v be_v this_o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a upon_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n upon_o this_o reason_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n let_v it_o be_v once_o prove_v which_o be_v by_o mr._n herle_v affirm_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n and_o it_o will_v thereupon_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v likewise_o end_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n if_o we_o yield_v thus_o much_o that_o what_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n the_o same_o must_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o government_n of_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v then_o follow_v that_o if_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v do_v so_o also_o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o which_o the_o consequence_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o our_o brethren_n think_v so_o strong_a viz._n that_o because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n therefore_o there_o must_v be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o government_n of_o synod_n if_o any_o say_v the_o consequence_n be_v not_o alike_o necessary_a in_o both_o case_n because_o the_o ground_n do_v not_o hold_v alike_o in_o both_o for_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v not_o teach_v all_o society_n on_o earth_n to_o end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n as_o it_o do_v teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n the_o answer_n in_o that_o we_o have_v plain_o say_v the_o same_o in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answerer_n allege_v viz._n p._n 20_o 21._o but_o the_o main_a question_n lie_v not_o there_o whether_o other_o society_n do_v end_n in_o monarchy_n for_o though_o the_o reverend_a author_n who_o we_o there_o do_v answer_v do_v seem_v so_o to_o judge_v yet_o we_o have_v there_o plain_o declare_v that_o we_o conceive_v of_o that_o matter_n otherwise_o but_o here_o do_v lie_v the_o main_a question_n viz._n suppose_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v also_o so_o end_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n will_v plain_o appear_v to_o any_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n and_o to_o this_o question_n our_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o consequence_n for_o
allege_v do_v abundant_o and_o plain_o prove_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v bear_v with_o we_o if_o we_o sometime_o argue_v from_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v where_o he_o say_v but_o our_o brethren_n hold_v that_o the_o call_n of_o the_o levite_n and_o of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v different_a as_o the_o officer_n and_o church_n of_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n be_v different_a the_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v one_o word_n of_o this_o matter_n either_o one_o way_n or_o other_o nor_o do_v he_o mention_v any_o place_n where_o we_o have_v speak_v aught_o of_o these_o thing_n and_o for_o the_o thing_n itself_o though_o many_o difference_n may_v be_v assign_v between_o the_o levite_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o between_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n yet_o i_o know_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o they_o but_o that_o in_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o general_a and_o common_a nature_n concern_v they_o both_o in_o those_o we_o may_v lawful_o argue_v from_o they_o and_o their_o time_n unto_o ourselves_o and_o our_o time_n if_o mr._n rutherford_n know_v we_o have_v give_v any_o such_o difference_n as_o will_v not_o suffer_v we_o thus_o to_o argue_v when_o he_o shall_v express_v the_o same_o we_o may_v consider_v further_o thereof_o our_o brethren_n grant_v pag._n 49._o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o the_o people_n lie_v on_o hand_n answ_n and_o we_o have_v also_o in_o the_o same_o pag._n 49._o render_v the_o reason_n hereof_o viz._n because_o elder_n then_o be_v not_o want_v why_o then_o do_v not_o our_o brother_n ingenuity_n so_o far_o prevail_v with_o he_o as_o to_o mention_v this_o when_o he_o mention_v the_o other_o however_o yet_o this_o he_o may_v be_v please_v to_o observe_v that_o as_o we_o grant_v the_o thing_n he_o speak_v of_o so_o themselves_o i_o think_v must_v grant_v also_o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a elder_n do_v impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a elder_n for_o my_o part_n i_o remember_v none_o nor_o do_v i_o remember_v that_o themselves_o have_v yet_o produce_v any_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o be_v elder_n and_o our_o brethren_n say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v but_o 1._o they_o do_v not_o as_o elder_n 2._o but_o as_o represent_v the_o people_n not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._n 8._o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n for_o 1._o these_o levite_n be_v take_v in_o stead_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o israel_n and_o not_o instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o the_o elder_n only_o numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o 2_o they_o be_v present_v to_o the_o lord_n as_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n not_o of_o the_o elder_n only_o 3._o when_o the_o multitude_n bring_v a_o oblation_n the_o elder_n put_v their_o hand_n on_o the_o head_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n levit._n 4._o 15._o instead_o of_o all_o the_o multitude_n answ_n in_o relate_v this_o passage_n our_o meaning_n be_v exceed_o mistake_v and_o both_o our_o meaning_n and_o our_o word_n represent_v far_o amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n the_o particular_n which_o in_o this_o respect_n may_v be_v except_v against_o be_v such_o as_o these_o 1._o that_o report_v we_o to_o say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n be_v elder_n he_o there_o break_v off_o the_o speech_n and_o so_o suppress_v that_o which_o follow_v wherein_o we_o first_o of_o all_o do_v give_v a_o explication_n in_o what_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v elder_n viz._n as_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o do_v add_v that_o nevertheless_o therein_o example_n do_v prove_v the_o point_n if_o two_o thing_n be_v consider_v which_o there_o we_o do_v express_v but_o both_o these_o particular_n i_o mean_v both_o the_o explication_n and_o the_o addition_n or_o exception_n be_v whole_o suppress_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o so_o the_o concession_n it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v elder_n be_v leave_v stand_v alone_o by_o itself_o 2._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n wherein_o he_o father_n on_o we_o a_o palpable_a error_n of_o account_v aaron_n and_o his_o son_n to_o be_v elder_n civil_a or_o magistrate_n which_o never_o come_v into_o our_o thought_n nay_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o we_o that_o we_o plain_o say_v the_o contrary_a in_o that_o very_a place_n to_o wit_n that_o they_o be_v elder_n ecclesiastical_a our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o they_o that_o be_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v it_o as_o elder_n then_o either_o as_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a or_o as_o civil_a governor_n but_o not_o the_o first_o for_o that_o charge_n belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._fw-la 8._o and_o these_o levite_n now_o ordain_v in_o which_o word_n we_o plain_o ascribe_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n the_o charge_n of_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a but_o not_o of_o civil_a governor_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v please_v to_o report_v 3._o in_o these_o word_n else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o our_o word_n be_v so_o miserable_o mangle_v that_o no_o tolerable_a sense_n can_v appear_v for_o here_o be_v express_v a_o inference_n or_o consequence_n that_o must_v follow_v and_o yet_o no_o ground_n or_o antecedent_n at_o all_o from_o which_o it_o shall_v follow_v which_o be_v to_o represent_v we_o to_o the_o world_n as_o man_n that_o be_v loesi_fw-la cerebro_fw-la for_o man_n that_o be_v in_o their_o right_a wit_n i_o conceive_v will_v scarce_o ever_o argue_v in_o this_o fashion_n as_o here_o we_o be_v report_v to_o do_v but_o our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o the_o second_o be_v say_v viz._n that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n as_o civil_a governor_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o civil_a magistrate_n though_o no_o church-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n of_o church-officer_n and_o so_o the_o point_n be_v gain_v viz._n that_o church-officer_n may_v be_v ordain_v by_o those_o that_o be_v no_o church-officer_n which_o we_o do_v further_o manifest_v in_o the_o follow_a word_n in_o this_o manner_n if_o the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v it_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v no_o magistrate_n may_v perform_v this_o action_n by_o other_o the_o fit_a instrument_n she_o have_v for_o which_o we_o there_o give_v this_o ground_n for_o that_o this_o be_v not_o a_o work_n proper_o tie_v to_o the_o magistrate_n office_n because_o then_o the_o church_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n want_v magistrate_n can_v not_o have_v have_v officer_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o we_o say_v be_v manifest_a in_o the_o scripture_n act._n 14._o 13._o tit._n 1._o 5._o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v which_o be_v far_o different_a from_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n report_v as_o we_o 4._o whereas_o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lie_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n in_o this_o he_o also_o report_v we_o to_o speak_v quite_o beside_o our_o plain_a meaning_n and_o express_v word_n for_o whereas_o he_o so_o set_v down_o this_o sentence_n as_o that_o the_o latter_a clause_n or_o branch_n therein_o be_v make_v the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a the_o truth_n be_v this_o that_o these_o clause_n in_o the_o answer_n have_v no_o dependence_n the_o one_o upon_o the_o other_o at_o all_o but_o the_o former_a have_v another_o reason_n give_v for_o it_o which_o here_o be_v not_o mention_v and_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v here_o mention_v as_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a be_v not_o so_o mention_v by_o we_o but_o for_o another_o end_n and_o purpose_n touch_v the_o former_a of_o these_o two_o when_o we_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v not_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n the_o reason_n we_o give_v for_o this_o say_n be_v this_o because_o that_o charge_n be_v only_o belong_v to_o aaron_n
and_o his_o son_n and_o those_o levite_n now_o ordain_v which_o reason_n mr._n rutherford_n never_o mention_n but_o mention_n another_o speech_n as_o our_o reason_n which_o be_v deliver_v by_o we_o for_o another_o purpose_n the_o like_a measure_n do_v he_o afford_v to_o we_o in_o the_o second_o branch_n of_o the_o sentence_n by_o he_o express_v for_o whereas_o we_o give_v two_o reason_n of_o the_o main_a thing_n in_o question_n that_o this_o example_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n non-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n upon_o church_n officer_n the_o one_o because_o what_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n the_o other_o that_o what_o they_o do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o for_o themselves_o alone_o but_o for_o all_o the_o congregation_n mr._n rutherford_n apply_v not_o these_o two_o reason_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n as_o they_o be_v apply_v by_o we_o but_o instead_o thereof_o make_v one_o of_o they_o to_o be_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o other_o which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o meaning_n nor_o can_v just_o be_v gather_v from_o our_o word_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v this_o passage_n of_o we_o from_o his_o manifold_a mistake_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v his_o answer_n pag._n 49â—_n these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o stead_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o answ_n if_o the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v then_o how_o can_v all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n or_o if_o all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v by_o office_n elder_n then_o how_o can_v the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v these_o thing_n seem_v not_o to_o be_v here_o but_o be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v as_o here_o be_v affirm_v how_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n be_v there_o any_o necessary_a or_o clear_a consequence_n in_o such_o a_o proposition_n for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_a i_o suppose_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o elder_n may_v be_v part_n or_o all_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v and_o yet_o they_o who_o do_v the_o work_n of_o impose_v hand_n may_v neither_o impose_v as_o elder_n nor_o of_o necessity_n be_v elder_n though_o in_o the_o sense_n express_v in_o the_o answer_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o there_o may_v be_v elder_n that_o be_v chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o sense_n express_v must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o they_o impose_v hand_n as_o elder_n and_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n too_o can_v a_o man_n sustain_v no_o relation_n but_o all_o his_o action_n must_v be_v action_n of_o that_o relation_n can_v a_o man_n be_v a_o husband_n or_o a_o parent_n etc._n etc._n but_o his_o action_n of_o plough_v sow_v etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o he_o be_v a_o husband_n or_o parent_n can_v a_o minister_n pray_v in_o his_o family_n instruct_v his_o child_n or_o receive_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o the_o congregation_n but_o all_o these_o thing_n must_v be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o a_o minister_n i_o suppose_v that_o none_o will_v say_v that_o this_o do_v follow_v and_o if_o not_o then_o suppose_v that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n be_v elder_n how_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o when_o they_o impose_v hand_n they_o do_v impose_v as_o elder_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v a_o constitute_v church_n before_o this_o time_n want_v officer_n which_o be_v against_o all_o truth_n answ_n else_o else_o what_o let_v the_o antecedent_n or_o ground_n of_o this_o inference_n be_v take_v from_o the_o word_n precede_v or_o from_o any_o of_o they_o and_o whence_o else_o to_o take_v it_o i_o can_v tell_v and_o no_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n i_o think_v will_v appear_v the_o word_n precede_v be_v no_o more_o but_o these_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o steed_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v and_o then_o come_v in_o this_o inference_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n want_v officer_n now_o how_o this_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o any_o or_o all_o of_o those_o precede_a i_o see_v not_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o all_o those_o precede_a word_n for_o of_o some_o of_o they_o i_o think_v otherwise_o but_o suppose_v that_o be_v all_o true_a which_o be_v more_o than_o do_v yet_o appear_v yet_o here_o be_v that_o which_o i_o be_o doubtful_a in_o whether_o this_o inference_n must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o same_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o church_n of_o israel_n may_v have_v officer_n and_o yet_o the_o particular_n here_o mention_v not_o be_v all_o true_a but_o some_o of_o they_o false_a notwithstanding_o at_o least_o wise_a if_o they_o be_v true_a yet_o the_o reason_n here_o use_v will_v not_o infer_v so_o much_o for_o to_o consider_v a_o little_a of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n which_o be_v another_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o levite_n be_v assume_v instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v another_o of_o they_o be_v there_o any_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n in_o any_o of_o these_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o suppose_v they_o be_v in_o themselves_o true_a yet_o the_o medium_n here_o use_v do_v not_o prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v and_o for_o that_o which_o be_v the_o first_o and_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o chief_n to_o wit_n that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o elder_n must_v this_o need_v be_v grant_v if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o without_o officer_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o grant_v this_o neither_o but_o the_o contrary_a to_o i_o seem_v possible_a enough_o that_o thou_o may_v be_v officer_n afore_o this_o time_n in_o that_o church_n and_o yet_o what_o be_v now_o do_v by_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n not_o be_v do_v by_o they_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n but_o as_o prime_n and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o a_o little_a further_o we_o may_v observe_v that_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v not_o here_o call_v elder_n nor_o ruler_n nor_o officer_n nor_o first_o bear_v nor_o any_o such_o like_a but_o the_o term_n whereby_o they_o be_v express_v be_v this_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n say_v the_o lord_n shall_v put_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o now_o this_o term_n be_v use_v in_o the_o 9_o verse_n immediate_o precede_v and_o in_o the_o 11._o vers_fw-la immediate_o follow_v yet_o in_o neither_o of_o both_o can_v it_o be_v mean_v of_o elder_n and_o officer_n alone_o but_o in_o both_o verse_n be_v undoubted_o mean_v of_o all_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o context_n and_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n be_v regard_v these_o child_n of_o israel_n who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n v_o 10._o can_v in_o that_o act_n be_v consider_v under_o the_o notâ—on_n of_o officer_n sure_o it_o be_v when_o the_o verse_n before_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o whole_a assembly_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n must_v be_v gather_v together_o and_o the_o verse_n follow_v tell_v we_o that_o aaron_n must_v offer_v the_o levite_n for_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n in_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v understand_v of_o the_o officer_n alone_o but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n be_v mean_v hereby_o in_o both_o verse_n reason_n therefore_o require_v that_o this_o ten_o verse_n stand_v in_o the_o midst_n between_o the_o other_o two_o the_o word_n child_n of_o israel_n be_v use_v therein_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o the_o same_o sense_n in_o this_o verse_n in_o which_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o verse_n before_o and_o in_o the_o verse_n that_o come_v after_o nay_o and_o further_o he_o that_o shall_v
peruse_v this_o chapter_n numb_a 8._o may_v easy_o find_v that_o this_o word_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v use_v therein_o no_o less_o than_o fifteen_o or_o sixteen_o several_a time_n and_o sometime_o four_o or_o five_o time_n in_o one_o verse_n and_o yet_o of_o all_o these_o i_o think_v here_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o where_o it_o can_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o elder_n and_o officer_n as_o such_o but_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v all_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o to_o give_v such_o a_o singular_a interpretation_n of_o this_o word_n in_o v_o 10._o so_o far_o different_a from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o same_o word_n in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o verse_n both_o before_o and_o after_o and_o those_o be_v not_o only_o one_o or_o two_o but_o so_o very_a many_o this_o kind_n of_o practice_n and_o interpretation_n have_v need_v to_o be_v build_v upon_o very_o plain_a and_o pregnant_a very_o clear_a and_o cogent_a reason_n and_o demonstration_n or_o else_o our_o brethren_n may_v excuse_v we_o if_o we_o be_v not_o over_o hasty_a and_o forward_a to_o receive_v it_o again_o the_o nine_o and_o eleven_o verse_n tell_v we_o plain_o that_o these_o levite_n be_v to_o be_v offer_v to_o the_o lord_n for_o a_o offering_n not_o of_o the_o elder_n alone_o but_o of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n even_o of_o all_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n and_o other_o scripture_n tell_v we_o as_o plain_o that_o all_o offering_n be_v to_o be_v present_v with_o the_o imposition_n of_o his_o hand_n who_o the_o offering_n be_v levit._n 1._o 3_o 4_o and_o 4._o 24_o 29_o 33._o whereby_o it_o seem_v evident_a that_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n who_o impose_v hand_n on_o these_o levite_n at_o this_o time_n when_o they_o be_v offer_v for_o a_o offering_n be_v the_o whole_a congregation_n or_o some_o in_o your_o name_n and_o stead_n since_o these_o levite_n be_v a_o offering_n of_o the_o whole_a congregation_n we_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n lay_v not_o on_o hand_n but_o they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n reconcile_v this_o with_o that_o pag._n 188_o l._n 1._o where_o it_o be_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o head_n of_o tribe_n lay_v hand_n on_o they_o now_o what_o be_v these_o prince_n and_o head_n of_o tribe_n but_o magistrate_n and_o if_o they_o be_v prince_n and_o magistrate_n how_o can_v they_o be_v consider_v in_o this_o act_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n the_o reason_n against_o this_o conclude_v not_o the_o first_o reason_n conclude_v not_o ans_fw-fr here_o again_o our_o meaning_n be_v present_v amiss_o to_o the_o reader_n for_o those_o three_o reason_n of_o we_o be_v give_v by_o we_o to_o prove_v another_o point_n and_o not_o this_o to_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n apply_v therein_o as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v see_v in_o answer_n pag._n 46_o 47._o where_o the_o reader_n may_v perceive_v that_o those_o reason_n be_v bring_v to_o show_v that_o when_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n impose_v hand_n if_o 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to_o prove_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v it_o for_o or_o in_o stead_n of_o the_o congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v as_o our_o reverend_a brother_n affirm_v that_o these_o two_o reason_n prove_v nothing_o yet_o let_v we_o hear_v why_o they_o prove_v nothing_o because_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n as_o represent_v the_o whole_a congregation_n alas_o it_o do_v no_o way_n conclude_v that_o they_o lay_v not_o on_o hand_n as_o it_o be_v a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o they_o 〈◊〉_d elder_n ans_fw-fr if_o it_o do_v not_o yet_o if_o our_o reason_n do_v conclude_v that_o they_o do_v it_o instead_o of_o the_o congregation_n we_o have_v our_o intent_n but_o to_o follow_v mr._n rutherford_n a_o little_a in_o digress_v from_o the_o point_n why_o do_v not_o our_o reason_n conclude_v this_o other_o the_o highpriest_n offer_v sacrifice_n first_o for_o his_o own_o sin_n and_o then_o for_o the_o people_n heb._n 7._o v_o 27._o and_o so_o do_v represent_v the_o people_n but_o i_o hope_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o therefore_o the_o priest_n do_v not_o sacrifice_v as_o a_o priest_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o a_o peculiar_a office_n but_o only_o as_o a_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n answ_n mr._n rutherford_n himself_o give_v we_o a_o distinction_n which_o may_v be_v sufficient_a for_o answer_v to_o this_o passage_n a_o representer_n say_v he_o stand_v for_o another_o either_o objective_o or_o subjective_o the_o former_a of_o these_o be_v he_o that_o do_v a_o business_n for_o another_o or_o in_o rem_fw-la ejus_fw-la for_o his_o behalf_n and_o good_a as_o the_o eye_n see_v and_o the_o ear_n hear_v for_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o thus_o objective_o the_o presbytery_n do_v represent_v the_o people_n that_o be_v for_o your_o good_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o people_n the_o other_o represent_v another_o subjective_o be_v when_o the_o representer_n have_v its_o power_n from_o that_o which_o it_o represent_v as_o he_o who_o carry_v the_o room_n and_o person_n of_o a_o king_n as_o a_o ambassador_n but_o thus_o say_v he_o the_o presbytery_n or_o eldership_n do_v not_o represent_v the_o people_n due_a right_n of_o presbyt_fw-la p._n 316_o 317._o now_o as_o the_o presbytery_n represent_v the_o people_n so_o may_v it_o be_v say_v of_o the_o priest_n viz._n that_o he_o represent_v the_o people_n only_o objective_o for_o their_o good_a but_o not_o subjective_o in_o their_o room_n and_o stead_n and_o therefore_o the_o case_n be_v not_o alike_o for_o we_o think_v that_o what_o be_v do_v by_o those_o who_o impose_v hand_n numb_a 8._o be_v not_o only_o do_v for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n but_o also_o in_o their_o room_n and_o stead_n which_o he_o will_v not_o say_v of_o the_o priest_n sacrifice_v for_o the_o people_n have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a of_o the_o presbytery_n pag._n 493._o you_o will_v say_v in_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n one_o may_v be_v a_o 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