Selected quad for the lemma: reason_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
reason_n	answer_n	doctrine_n	use_v	3,516	5	9.2632	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80160	Responsoria bipartita, sive vindiciæ suspensionis ecclesiasticæ ut et presbyterii evangelici. A double reply, containing a vindication of the antient practice of the Church (according to the rule of the word) suspending the ignorant and scandalous from the Lords Supper. As also of ecclesiastical presbyteries ... The first in answer to one M. Boatmans challenge of all the ministers on earth to make suspension of any but Turks, Jews, pagans and excommunicate persons from the Lords Supper, appear from Scriptures. In answer to whom the said censure is justified by several arguments from Scripture, and the universal practice of the Church, the magisterial vanity also of his sermon, Decem. 13. and March 28. in Peters Church in Norwich is discovered, ... In which answer also some objections of Erastus, Mr. Prin, and Mr. Humfry, are coilaterally considered, and answered. The second part in answer to Theophilus Brabourn, who hath talked something in a little pamphlet against the Lord Jesus Christ ... / By John Collings, B.D. and pastor of the church of Christ in Stephens parish in Norwich.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.	1655 (1655)	Wing C5333; Thomason E832_2; ESTC R207514	201,020	319

to use handsomer than these the Holy Ghosts not dreaming and the Texts Noses are phrases Divines have not been wont to use and which speaketh in the heart of him that useth them small reverence of an holy God or his holy Word Againe we must take notice that whatever may be urged about the Sacrament from other places it is not meant here c. And for all this you have Mr Boatman's word I thinke I may safely say I spend as many houres in my Study and about my Sermons as Mr Boatman doth and consider as much and consult with as many Commentatours before I deliver the senfe of a Text as he well can do nor blessed be God am I without some naturall advantages to helpe me Yet Reader I desire thee to be of Hierom's mind Give that honour to the Word of God only to beleeve it because it is his word and for Mr Boatman and me about any Text lay our Reasons in the ballance of the Sanctuary provided thou forbearest his light gold the allowance of faction and particular affection and let the Scale that is heaviest carry it I aske no other favour I professe I never read such an imperious magisteriall pack of Sentences without a dram of reason for his own say since I knew what belonged to a book Now he is come to his Doctrine Animadr on Paragr 4. which he delivers thus It is the duty of every Christian especially of every Minister to take heed to whom and how they deliver divine truths lest delivering them to obstinate and irreprovable men they labour in vaine and they trample upon them 1. If this be the truth yet I conceive it is not the whole truth of the Text. 2. Mr Boatman should have done well to have kept the termes holy things and Pearles except he had proved by Scripture or Reason that divine truths are the only holy things and pearles here meant 3. I hope Mr Boatman will tell us how we shall know a man to be so irreprovable that we may be justified in not preaching to him nor admonishing him But I find it otherwise he is loath to meddle with that nice Point but he undertakes 1. To prove that there are some to whom we must not deliver divine truths 2. He undertakes to give us reasons First he will prove that there are some such this he thinks he can prove from Psal 39.2 where David saith He kept his mouth with a bridle while the wicked was before him he held his peace even from good Mr Boatman told us even now that it must be truth to the purpose a man must deliver as the sense of the Holy Ghost That which Mr Boatman hath to prove is that the Children of God should not deliver to wicked men who are irreprovable divine truth to this purpose he brings that of David who held his peace from good what good What from admonishing them There is no such thing in the Text. Mollerus expounds it of his own just and righteous cause the defending of that Others expound it in generall of good that he was altogether silent not in reference to the wicked in respect of whom he restrained his passions ver 1. but in reference to his trouble of spirit which was such as stupified him In the next place he tels us how wary the Prophets were when people were incorrigible but he that reads them will find they never left reproving them He tells us God bids them not pray for them that is true Jer. 7. but in the same Chapter he is bid to preach to them and reprove them ver 2. He hath but one instance more and that is of our Saviour Christ who he saies would sometimes make them no answer but what is this to the purpose did our Saviour ever forbeare reproving them or preaching to them Thus Reader thou seest how well he hath proved his Doctrine not one instance holds Let us come to his Reasons He tells us Animadv on Paragraph 5. he will instance in those in the Text 1. Because they will trample upon them So he saies they did upon John Baptists Doctrine and our Saviour Christs and Pauls There needs no more than this to prove that preaching the Gospell and admonition is not here meant only sor first the same reason will hold to the Sacrament wicked men will trample on that too surely 2. Though they trampled on John Baptists and our Saviours and the Apostles preaching to them yet none of them left preaching the Gospell nor admonishing them The second Reason is They will turne againe and rend you that is as Mr Boatman expounds it you will endanger yourselves I answer this againe proves the preaching the Gospell is not the only thing here meant for who knows not that the Apostles constantly preached the Gospell to the apparent hazard of their lives Paul fights with beasts at Ephesus is whipped stoned imprisoned at other places yet he preaches and the Apostles durst not leave preaching to any upon any a count In the next large Paragraph Mr Boatman makes a digression to take away the wonder of the world Animadv on Paragraph 6. that there should be any Christians so bad Some he thinks there are but he hath none of them and he feares they are most amongst them who have their mouths fullest of such termes The termes are our Saviour Christs own I know none useth them with reference to any particular persons but only to shew such ought not to be admitted to holy things Mr Boatman possibly is angry that our Saviour should so characterize those whom he it may be hath a more reverend opinion of Whining Christians Squeaking out Jesus Christ The Noses of Texts the dreamings of the Holy Ghost I thinke are more Apocryphall termes than dogs and swine applied to such as returne after Baptisme with the Dog to the vomit and the Swine to wallow in the mire I do not well understand how this came into his Sermon yet it is a third part of it to shew how men by degrees come to be so wicked as not to endure reproofe Any schollar must judge that it came in as the man brought in Hercules It is true had Mr Boatman done his maine worke to prove that Admonition was the only thing or Preaching the only thing here meant he might have been borne with recreating himselfe with such a digression which yet had been more proper for the Application I am apt to beleeve that Pride and Ignorance and love of lusts are the three great causes of mens not enduring wholsome reproofe but what was this to Mr Boatman's purpose who should have spent his time to prove 1. That Admonition and Divine truths are the only holy things and pearles here meant And when he had done what he could for that I would have had some body whispered him in the eare and told him surely he was not aware what he said for if Dogs must not be admonished nor preached to surely they

preach the Word of God But surely we must find the Dogs determined in Scripture before our consciences will be warranted to justifie our practice in denying the Gospell to them Theophylact saith Theoph. ad loc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Heathens are Dogs and Christians that live filthy lives are Swine Chemnitius saies We are all by Nature Dogs and Swine Bucer and Gualther both confesse that sinners of impure lives and unclean conversations are Dogs and Swine so saith Bullinger But the Word or admonition must not be denied to all such I am sure and I know no ground for their restriction The Lords supper indeed must which makes me think that that Ordinance is chiefly here meant though not fingly It is the onely Ordinance is to bee denied to all knowne Dogs and herein I agree with my Learned Rutherford Rutherford divine right 254. si non major sit quam ut meus d●ci possit as he useth to say of our incomparable Twiss Brentius in his Commentary on the place telleth us Brentius ad loc cum autem in oculis ecclesiae sit poenitens non est vel ministri ut eum contumeliosè a coena rejiciat c. ib. Conrad Pellicanus in loc Musc in loc the Word and Sacraments are the holy things and that wicked and impure men are Dogs and Swine though he rightly concludes that the Word is not to be denied to all Dogs nor any though Dogs in Gods sight to be kept from the Sacrament if penitent Conradus Pellicanus expounds it with Musculus of all Gospell mysteries Nolim Evangelicae sapientiae mysteria sine delectu tradi dignis indiguis and tels us that those are Dogs who abhorre holinesse and those are Swine who wallow in filthy pleasures he seemes to think the Gospell chiefly to be meant but pinching himselfe with the perplexing question what Dogs those are to whom Christ would not have his Gospell preached he concludes with Bucer darkly Nemo sine spiritu patris recte intelliget Salmeron tels us Salmeron t. 5. trac 60. that this Text teacheth us how we should preach the Word and Administer the Sacraments and that by Dogs and Swine are meant Infidels Hareticks and carnall Christians and though a Papist yet determines honestly That the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be given to none but him who hath duly tried himselfe and proved himselfe and saies it is thought by many Judas was not at the Sacrament of the Supper if he were he was a secret sinner not scandalous Which is also Alex Halensis his answer But I have said enough to prove both from Scripture Reason and the consent of Learned men that as the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is one of the holy things here meant so if we may either from Scripture or Reason or the judgement of Holy men conclude any thing impure sinners are here meant by Dogs After all this what Mr Humfry saith Mr Humfry 's vind free admission is not worth taking notice of He will have those onely to be Dogs and Swine who are so in the publick esteeme of the Church viz. Juridically censured So that with him Give not hely things to Dogs and Swine is Give not holy things to excommunicate persons and this seemes to be Mr Boatman's sense too who excepts only excommunicate Christians from the Lords Supper and it is likely he plowed with his Heifer not only by his commending of that loose Pamphlet to his Disciples but by his bold censure of Suspension as a Pharisaicall dreame which amounts to Mr Humfrie's non est inventa in balivâ nostrâ p. 82 which made me merry when I read it that being the usuall returne that Sherriffs make who have never looked for the party no more then I beleeve Mr Humfry hath done for this Ordinance or else when they have lookt for him with a resolution to overlook him The truth is both Mr Humfry and Mr Boatman had it from Erastus Erast thesis 64. or the same spirit at least He was the first worker in this sort of Brasse and what they say amounts to the same with his Quos ecclesia ita judicavit But let us see to how little purpose this is said 1. The Text is plaine that holy things are not to be given to Dogs or Swine Now I never knew that the shutting of a Dog out of the house made him a Dog I had thought he must have been a Dog first before he had been shut out of the house but this Mr Humfry grants onely not used like Dogs before 2. Our question is what are those Dogs here spoken of whether these who have vitia canina the beastly qualities of Dogs or those onely who have the ill hap of Dogs Petitio principij to be turn'd out of doors I had thought that this Text had been brought to have proved that those who have the nature and beastly qualities of Dogs should be used like Dogs and not have childrens bread given to them 3. If excommunicate persons be meant here surely this Text or some other must justify the usage of this Metaphor in that sence But let Mr Humfry shew us but one Text of Scripture where this terme Dogs is used to expresse excommunicate persons or let him shew us any thing in the Text to enforce it here otherwise we must tell him the Scripture cals all prophane siners Dogs those who returne with the Dog to the vomit and with the Swine to wallow in the mire are Dogs and Swine in the Scripture sense but I find excommunicate persons call'd so no where upon the account of their excommunication 4. Nor is there any one Author on his side that ever I met with so that his interpretation is contrary to Scripture Reason and all Expositors But yet we say though the Sacrament be denied to Dogs and Swine because they are so not because they are shut out of the houshold of God by excommunication yet in regard that man can judge but according to the outward appearance they must first appeare to be so before the Ordinance can be denied to them Secret things belong to God But to say that by Dogs here are only meant persons actually excommunicate is a meer shift to avoid a strong argument and but an idle dreams which hath no reality of truth in it and is justifiable neither from this Text nor any other Scripture But these men who are so zealous for the profanation of an Ordinance are observed very lazy as to the preserving the purity of Ordinances They must be excommunicated before you keep them from the Sacrament saith Mr Boatman so saies Mr Humfry but why doc not these tender men then take a course to declare such to be Dogs and Swine as are so and to cast them out Mr Boatman hath an Eldership established in his congregation why did he not first call them together and inquire the state of his flock and cast

excommunicatio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Separatio est poena qua homo per sententiam Ecclesia cogitur aliquantisper omittere officium publicum usum Sacramentorum ut exploretur ejus obedientia an volens statim emendaturus sit veniam petiturus Melancth in Eth. 287. an vero contumaciter defensurus errorem c. Altera poena ultima summa in Ecclesia est Excommunicatio c. This is plaine enough for our purpose The next which I shall name of those holy and learned men whom Mr Boatman hath called Dreamers c. amongst the rest is holy Bucer Bucer in Comment in Ephes cap. 4. Et Cavendum est Ecclesiis ne cui causam praebeant sumendi sibi judicium in sumendo Sacramento salutis quod faciunt quicunque absque verâ peccatorum suorum Poenitentiâ Sacrament is Domini communicant Quamobrem siqui in gravius aliquod peccatum incidissent in manifestum flagitium ut Corinthius ille incestus inciderat eos priscae Ecclesia quae Christi disciplinam adhuc rectè tenebant ligabant certo tempore ad agend●m hoc est demonstrandum poenitentiam per opera fructus veros poenitentiae etiamsi illos jam tum peccati sui poenitere appareret id enim erat consentaneum verae poenitentiae de tetriore lapsu quae ut dictum si vera sit aliquandiu haeret tum utile ad cavendum peccatum tam ipse qui ligabatur quam totae reliquae Ecclesiae Atque hinc est quod Divus Cyprianus tantopere urgebat lapsis in persecutionibus non ilico dandam esse veniam sed diu ac justo tempore eos agere poenitentiam de quo v. Epist ejus 2. 3. lib. 1. lib. 3. ab Ep. 14. ad 20. in Sermone de lapsis Item exemplum Ambrosit inlegatione Theodosii apud Theod. l. 3. c. 18. apud Sozom. l. 7. c. 24. Porro licet abstinendi sint ad tempus qui gravioribus peccatis Ecclesiam funestarunt tamen severior debet esse Excommunicatio eorum qui Ecclesiam non audiunt c. In the next place let us heare what our Reverend Calvin saith Calv. institut l. 4. cap. 12. sect 5 6. and he speakes plaine enough In his fifth Paragraph having spoken before of Church-Censures he treats of the three ends which the Church aimes at in such Censures 1. The glory of God 2. The preservation of the Churches purity 3. The amendment of the offender In his sixth Paragraph he comes to shew the method and order of the Churches proceedings in Church-Censures that he doth by making use of a former distinction he had laid down between publike and more private sins By private sins he tels us he doth not mean such as none know of such as are the sins of hypocrites but such whose nature is not so scandalous c. For open grosse publike sins he tells us the Church need not proceed so gradually 1. By private admonition 2. Then by admonition more publike c. For lesser sins the Church takes no cognisance of them till private admonition be refused when it comes to them if the offence be lighter sufficit verborum castigatio saith he it is enough for the Church at first to admonish and that saith he must be levis paterna quae non exasperet peccatorem nec confundat sed reducat ad seipsum ut magis gaudeat se correctum quam tristetur But if the offences be of an higher nature they must be corrected by a sharper remedy for saith he it is not enough if one hath committed a scandalous sin and grievously offended the Church should be reproved by words Ibid. Sect. 7 8 9.10 11 12. but for a time he ought to be deprived of the Communion of the Lords Supper till he hath given evidence of his repentance And this saith he was the way of the ancient and better Church c. But for Excommunciation he determines that must be done after a great deale of waiting and with a great deale of wisdome and caution c. thou maiest read him at large whose discourse is too large indeed to be transcribed This is enough to shew thee that he is one of Mr Boatmans Pharisees and Dreamers too we shall have good company I hope anon In this sixteenth Century were so many eminent men that it were endlesse to transcribe all their testimonies to this truth thou hast Reader already heard what Melancthon and Bucer and Calvin have spoke who were all three within this Century I shall not trouble thee with many more Zach. Ursinus in doct Christ 2. p. de Coenâ dom q. 8. What Reverend Vrsine thought may be read at large in his eighth Question de Coenâ Domini where he speakes to these two Questions 1. Qui ad coe●am accedere debent who ought to come to the Lords Table 2. Qui debeant admitti who ought to be admitted to it In answer to the latter he determines Those are to be admitted by the Church who by words and deeds professe true repentance and who by the actions of their life expresse their profession of faith and repentance but they are saith he not to be admitted who barely say they beleeve all things for he who saith he beleeveth and sheweth it not by his works is a liar and doth in deeds deny what in words he affirmeth For this he gives reasons and answers objections largely in that Chapter which the Reader may see in Latine or English And that he thought this Suspension ought to precede Excommunication is plaine for in the same Book in his fifth Question de Clavibus He determines that Excommunication must be used as the last remedy to correct those who are found impenitent And in the preceding Question he proves by fourteen Arguments that scandalous persons ought to be kept from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper which I wish those who are so zealous for the profanation of that Ordinance would seriously weigh possibly they might amaze their consciences if they have any more than Mr Boatman's startling reason scares us I confesse in this Century I find severall of the Germane Divines pleading for promiscuous Communion especially Wolfangus Musculus but they are not so considerable in this cause because their Judgements are also against all Church Discipline where there is a Christian Magistrate The Lord hath made their names upon other accounts exceeding famous though in point of Church Discipline they have no name in the Church God shall reveale this also to those Churches as we hope What was Peter Martyrs opinion is plaine from his common places Pet. Mart. loc com Clas 4. c. 5. sect 7. where he tells us in what order the Churches of God formerly proceeded to the solemne sentence of Excommunication he indeed tels us that their severall degrees of Catechumeni of which some were Audientes some Competentes and of their Poenitentes of which they had