Selected quad for the lemma: reason_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
reason_n	answer_n	doctrine_n	use_v	3,516	5	9.2632	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80157	Provocator provocatus. Or, An answer made to an open challenge made by one M. Boatman in Peters Parish in Norwich, the 13th of December, 1654. in a sermon preached there at a fast, in which answer these questions are spoke to. 1. Whether juridicall suspension of some persons from the Lords Supper be deducible from Scripture; the affirmative is proved. : 2. Whether ministeriall or privative suspension be justifiable; the affirmative also is maintained. : 3. Whether the suspension of the ignorant and scandalous be a pharisaicall invention; a thing which wiser ages never thought of, as Mr Boatman falsly affirmed. In opposition to which is proved, that it hath been the judgment and practice of the eminent saints and servants of Christ, in all ages, of all other reformed churches in all times ... / By John Collings ...	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Boatman, Mr.	1654 (1654)	Wing C5329A; ESTC R232871	174,209	280

all concerne It is an easie matter to wring a Text so long by the Nose as to make it bleed againe and all to little purpose Take notice whatsoever may be urged about this Sacred Ordinance from another place and at another time it is not meant here to speake of it here is to speake to no purpose not worth the speaking it is not the sense of the Holy Ghost Here he speakes loud enough and falls upon me pell-mell but with no other weapons than his tongue he charges me with preaching untruth how doth that appeare Mr Boatman saies so and that is all He tels us of fastning somthing upon the Holy Ghost which he never dreampt of No Sir the Holy Ghost doth not use to dreame though fraile man may he carries no sleepy body about with him he tells us It is an easie matter to wring a Text about by the Nose he is much taken it seemes with that phrase but if he will be metaphoricall he should do well to use handsomer than these the Holy Ghosts not dreaming and the Texts Noses are phrases Divines have not been wont to use and which speaketh in the heart of him that useth them small reverence of an holy God or his holy Word Againe we must take notice that whatever may be urged about the Sacrament from other places it is not meant here c. And for all this you have Mr Boatman's word I thinke I may safely say I spend as many houres in my Study and about my Sermons as Mr Boatman doth and consider as much and consult with as many Commentatours before I deliver the sense of a Text as he well can do nor blessed be God am I without some naturall advantages to helpe me Yet Reader I desire thee to be of Hierom's mind Give that honour to the Word of God only to beleeve it because it is his word and for Mr Boatman and me about any Text lay our Reasons in the ballance of the Sanctnary provided thou forbearest his light gold the allowance of faction and particular affection and let the Scale that is heaviest carry it I aske no other favour I professe I never read such an imperious magisteriall pack of Sentences without a dram of reason for his own say since I knew what belonged to a book Now he is come to his Doctrine Animadr on Paragr 4. which he delivers thus It is the duty of every Christian especially of every Minister to take heed to whom and how they deliver divine truths lest delivering them to obstinate and irreprovable men they labour in vaine and they trample upon them 1. If this be the truth yet I conceive it is not the whole truth of the Text. 2. Mr Boatman should have done well to have kept the termes holy things and Pearles except he had proved by Scripture or Reason that divine truths are the only holy things and pearles here meant 3. I hope Mr Boatman will tell us how we shall know a man to be so irreprovable that we may be justified in not preaching to him nor admonishing him But I find it otherwise he is loath to meddle with that nice Point but he undertakes 1. To prove that there are some to whom we must not deliver divine truths 2. He undertakes to give us reasons First he will prove that there are some such this he thinks he can prove from Psal 39.2 where David saith He kept his mouth with a bridle while the wicked was before him he held his peace even from good Mr Boatman told us even now that it must be truth to the purpose a man must deliver as the sense of the Holy Ghost That which Mr Boatman hath to prove is that the Children of God should not deliver to wicked men who are irreprovable divine truth to this purpose he brings that of David who held his peace from good what good What from admonishing them There is no such thing in the Text. Mollerus expounds it of his own just and righteous cause the defending of that Others expound it in generall of good that he was altogether silent not in reference to the wicked in respect of whom he restrained his passions ver 1. but in reference to his trouble of spirit which was such as stupified him In the next place he tels us how wary the Prophets were when people were incorrigible but he that reads them will find they never left reproving them He tells us God bids them not pray for them that is true Jer. 7. but in the same Chapter he is bid to preach to them and reprove them ver 2. He hath but one instance more and that is of our Saviour Christ who he saies would sometimes make them no answer but what is this to the purpose did our Saviour ever forbeare reproving them or preaching to them Thus Reader thou seest how well he hath proved his Doctrine not one instance holds Let us come to his Reasons He tells us Animadv on Paragraph 5. he will instance in those in the Text 1. Because they will trample upon them So he saies they did upon John Baptists Doctrine and our Saviour Christs and Pauls There needs no more than this to prove that preaching the Gospell and admonition is not here meant only for first the same reason will hold to the Sacrament wicked men will trample on that too surely 2. Though they trampled on John Baptists and our Saviours and the Apostles preaching to them yet none of them left preaching the Gospell nor admonishing them The second Reason is They will turne againe and rend you that is as Mr Boatman expounds it you will endanger your selves I answer this againe proves the preaching the Gospell is not the only thing here meant for who knows not that the Apostles constantly preached the Gospell to the apparent hazard of their lives Paul fights with beasts at Ephesus is whipped stoned imprisoned at other places yet he preaches and the Apostles durst not leave preaching to any upon any a count In the next large Paragraph Mr Boatman makes a digression to take away the wonder of the world Animadv on Paragraph 6. that there should be any Christians so bad Some he thinks there are but he hath none of them and he feares they are most amongst them who have their mouths fullest of such termes The termes are our Saviour Christs own I know none useth them with reference to any particular persons but only to shew such ought not to be admitted to holy things Mr Boatman possibly is angry that our Saviour should so characterize those whom he it may be hath a more reverend opinion of Whining Christians Squeaking out Jesus Christ The Noses of Texts the dreamings of the Holy Ghost I thinke are more Apocryphall termes than dogs and swine applied to such as returne after Baptisme with the Dog to the vomit and the Swine to wallow in the mire I do not well understand how this came into his Sermon yet

7 of Matthew and I doubt whether what he and Pareus at last determine concerning refusing to preach the Gospell to some be truth and beleeve it may be proved that Christ and his Apostles preached the Gospell to some such as they determine against and I thinke the same of what Gualther determines Gualther ad loc who expounds the place as chiefly meant of admonition The excommunicate Dog must be admonished as a Brother who yet if he would have heard the Church admonishing should not need have been excommunicated Bullinger ad loc Nor doth Bullinger who preceded Gualther better satisfie who seems to understand it of private admonition yet dates not determine whether it may be denyed to any as a Dog And Bucer concludes that the spirit of God must guide the Minister in such cases Bucer ad loc to whom to preach and to whom to refuse to preach the Word of God But surely we must find the Dogs determined in Scripture before our consciences will be warranted to justifie our practice in denying the Gospell to them Theophylact saith Theoph. ad loc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that Heathens are Dogs and Christians that live filthy lives are Swine Chemnitius saies We are all by Nature Dogs and Swine Bucer and Gualther both confesse that sinners of impure lives and unclean conversations are Dogs and Swine so saith Bullinger But the Word or admonition must not be denied to all such I am sure and I know no ground for their restriction The Lords supper indeed must which makes me think that that Ordinance is chiefly here meant though not singly It is the onely Ordinance is to bee denied to all knowne Dogs and herein I agree with my Learned Rutherford Rutherford divine right 254. sinon major sit quam ut mens dici possit as he useth to say of our incomparable Twiss Brentius in his Commentary on the place telleth us Brentiu● ad loc cum autem in oculis ecclesiae sit poenitens non est vel ministri ut eum contumeliosè a coena re●iciat c. ib. Conrad Pellicanus in loc Musc in loc the Word and Sacraments are the holy things and that wicked and impure men are Dogs and Swine though he rightly concludes that the Word is not to be denied to all Dogs nor any though Dogs in Gods sight to be kept from the Sacrament if penitent Conradus Pellicanus expounds it with Mus●ulus of all Gospell mysteries Nolim Evangelicae sapientiae mysteria sine delectu tradi dignis indignis and tels us that those are Dogs who abhorre holinesse and those are Swine who wallow in filthy pleasures he seemes to think the Gospell chiefly to be meant but pinching himselfe with the perplexing question what Dogs those are to whom Christ would not have his Gospell preached he concludes with Bucer darkly Nemo sine spiritu patris recte intelliget Salmeron tels us Salmeron l. 5. trac 60. that this Text teacheth us how we should preach the Word and Administer the Sacraments and that by Dogs and Swine are meant Infidels H●reticks and carnall Christians and though a Papist yet determines honestly That the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be given to none but him who hath duly tried himselfe and proved himselfe and sales it is thought by many Judas was not at the Sacrament of the Supper if he were he was a secret sinner not scandalous Which is also Alex Halensis his answer But I have said enough to prove both from Scripture Reason and the consent of Learned men that as the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is one of the holy things here meant so if we may either from Scripture or Reason or the judgement of Holy men conclude any thing impure sinners are here meant by Dogs After all this what Mr Humfry saith Mr Humfry's vind frce admission is not worth taking notice of He will have those onely to be Dogs and Swine who are so in the publick esteeme of the Church viz. Juridically consured So that with him Give not holy things to Dogs and Swine is Give not holy things to excommunicate persons and this seemes to be Mr Boatman's sense too who excepts only excommunicate Christians from the Lords Supper and it is likely he plowed with his Heifer not only by his commending of that loose Pamphlet to his Disciples but by his bold censure of Suspension as a Pharisaicall dreame which amounts to Mr Humfrie's non est invent a in balivâ nostrâ p. 82 which made me merry when I read it that being the usuall returne that Sherriffs make who have never looked for the party no more then I beleeve Mr Humfry hath done for this Ordinance or else when they have lookt for him with a resolution to overlook him The truth is both Mr Humfry and Mr Boatman had it from Erastus or the same spirit at least Erast thesis 64. He was the first worker in this sort of Brasse and what they say amounts to the same with his Quos ecclesia ●ta judicavit But let us see to how little purpose this is said 1. The Text is plaine that holy things are not to be given to Dogs or Swine Now I never knew that the shutting of a Dog out of the house made him a Dog I had thought he must have been a Dog first before he had been shut out of the house but this Mr Humfry grants onely not used like Dogs before 2. Our question is what are those Dogs here spoken of whether these who have vitia canina the beastly qualities of Dogs or those onely who have the ill hap of Dogs to be turn'd out of doors Petitio principij I had thought that this Text had been brought to have proved that those who have the nature and beastly qualities of Dogs should be used like Dogs and not have childrens bread given to them 3. If excommunicate persons be meant here surely this Text or some other must justify the usage of this Metaphor in that sence But let Mr Humfry shew us but one Text of Scripture where this terme Dogs is used to expresse excommunicate persons or let him shew us any thing in the Text to enforce it here otherwise we must tell him the Scripture cals all prophane sinners Dogs those who returne with the Dog to the vomit and with the Swine to wallow in the mire are Dogs and Swine in the Scripture sense but I find excommunicate persons call'd so no where upon the account of their excommunication 4. Nor is there any one Author on his side that ever I met with so that his interpretation is contrary to Scripture Reason and all Expositors But yet we say though the Sacrament be denied to Dogs and Swine because they are so not because they are shut out of the houshold of God by excommunication yet in regard that man can judge but according to the out ward appearance they must first appeare

do partly because the ignorance of some may judge it one of their superstitious practices and partly because their Schoolemen have spoken enough to let us know their minds to which Salmeron may be added who hath spoken enough to prove it in a place I have before quoted Salmeron t 5. tract 50. For the opinion of the Churches of the Switzers it is not considerable in the cause because most of their Churches have no Excommunication at all and so could not hold Suspension as distinct from it yet I observe that none of them plead for admission of any to the Lords Table but such as make a profession of their faith and repentance so Brentius Bullinger Gualther c. Philip Melancthon who was one of the first Reformers in Germany hath said enough as it is recorded by Christophorus Pezelius Pezelii pars oct argum resp theol contexta ex scriptis Melanct. de Excom p. 409. In veteribus Canonibus duo gradus sunt poenarum separatio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excommunicatio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Separatio est poena qua homo per sententiam Ecclesiae cogitur aliquantisper omittere officium publicum usum Sacramentorum ut exploretur ejus obedientia an volens statim emendaturus sit veniam petiturus Melancth in Eth. 287. an vero contumaciter defensurus errorem c. Altera poena ultima summa in Ecclesia est Excommunicatio c. This is plaine enough for our purpose The next which I shall name of those holy and learned men whom Mr Boatman hath called Dreamers c. amongst the rest is holy Bucer Bucer in Comment in Ephes cap. 4. Et Cavendum est Ecclesiis ne cui causam praebeant sumendi sibi judicium in sumendo Sacramento salutis quod faciunt quicunque absque verâ peccatorum suorum Poenitentiâ Sacramentis Domini communicant Quamobrem siqui in gravius aliquod peccatum incidissent in manifestum flagitium ut Corint hius ille incestus inciderat eos priscae Ecclesiae quae Christi disciplinam adhuc rectè tenebant ligabant certo tempore ad agendam hoc est demonstrandum poenitentiam per opera fructus veros poenitentiae etiamsi illos jam tum peccati sui poenitere appareret id enim erat consentaneum verae poenitentiae de tetriore lapsu quae ut dictum si vera sit aliquandiu haeret tum utile ad cavendum peccatum tam ipse qui ligabatur quam totae reliquae Ecclesiae Atque hinc est quod Divus Cyprianus tantopere urgebat lapsis inpersecutionibus non ilico dandam esse veniam sed diu ac justo tempore eos agere poenitentiam de quov Epist ejus 2. 3. lib. 1. lib. 3. ab Ep. 14. ad 20. in Sermone de lapsis Item exemplum Ambrosii inlegatione Theodosii apud Theod. l. 3. c. 18. apud Sozom. l. 7. c. 24. Porro licet abstinendi sint ad tempus qui gravioribus peccatis Ecclesiam funestarunt tamen severior debet esse Excommunicatio eorum qui Ecclesiam non audiunt c. In the next place let us heare what our Reverend Calvin saith Calv. institut l. 4 cap. 12. sect 5 6. and he speakes plaine enough In his fifth Paragraph having spoken before of Church-Censures he treats of the three ends which the Church aimes at in such Censures 1. The glory of God 2. The preservation of the Churches purity 3. The amendment of the offender In his sixth Paragraph he comes to shew the method and order of the Churches proceedings in Church-Censures that he doth by making use of a former distinction he had laid down between publike and more private sins By private sins he tels us he doth not mean such as none know of such as are the sins of hypocrites but such whose nature is not so scandalous c. For open grosse publike sins he tells us the Church need not proceed so gradually 1. By private admonition 2. Then by admonition more publike c. For lesser sins the Church takes no cognisance of them till private admonition be refused when it comes to them if the offence be lighter sufficit verborum castigatio saith he it is enough for the Church at first to admonish and that saith he must be levis paterna quae non exasperet peccatorem nec confundat sed reducat ad seipsum ut magis gaudeat se correctum quam tristetur But if the offences be of an higher nature they must be corrected by a sharper remedy for saith he it is not enough if one hath committed a scandalous sin and grievously offended the Church should be reproved by words but for a time he ought to be deprived ef the Communion of the Lords Supper Ibid. Sect. 7 8 9.10 11 12. till he hath given evidence of his repentance And this saith he was the way of the ancient and better Church c. But for Excommunciation he determines that must be done after a great deale of waiting and with a great deale of wisdome and caution c. thou maiest read him at large whose discourse is too large indeed to be transcribed This is enough to shew thee that he is one of Mr Boatmans Pharisees and Dreamers too we shall have good company I hope anon In this sixteenth Century were so many eminent men that it were endlesse to transcribe all their testimonies to this truth thou hast Reader already heard what Melancthon and Bucer and Calvin have spoke who were all three within this Century I shall not trouble thee with many more Zach. Ursinus in doct Christ 2. p de Coenâ dom q. 8. What Reverend Vrsine thought may be read at large in his eighth Question de Coenâ Domini where he speakes to these two Questions 1. Quiad coenam accedere debent who ought to come to the Lords Table 2. Qui debeant admitti who ought to be admitted to it In answer to the latter he determines Those are to be admitted by the Church who by words and deeds professe true repentance and who by the actions of their life expresse their profession of faith and repentance but they are saith he not to be admitted who barely say they beleeve all things for he who saith he beleeveth and sheweth it not by his works is a liar and doth in deeds deny what in words he affirmeth For this he gives reasons and answers objections largely in that Chapter which the Reader may see in Latine or English And that he thought this Suspension ought to precede Excommunication is plaine for in the same Book in his fifth Question de Clavibus He determines that Excommunication must be used as the last remedy to correct those who are found impenitent And in the preceding Question he proves by fourteen Arguments that scandalous persons ought to be kept from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper which I wish those who are so zealous