Selected quad for the lemma: reason_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
reason_n	answer_n	answer_v	objection_n	2,644	5	9.4165	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87226	Confidence encountred: or, A vindication of the lawfulness of preaching without ordination. In answer to a book published by N.E. a friend of Mr. Tho Willes, intituled, The confident questionist questioned. Together with an answer to a letter of Mr. Tho. Willes, published in the said book. By which the lawfulness of preaching without ordination is cleared, and the ordination of the national ministers proved to be a nullity. By Jer. Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1658 (1658)	Wing I1094; Thomason E936_1; ESTC R207711	43,652	64

fulk_n and_o whittingam_fw-la and_o divers_a other_o when_o they_o have_v have_v to_o do_v with_o papist_n have_v inveigh_v against_o ordination_n from_o they_o as_o a_o stink_a filthy_a thing_n as_o i_o have_v already_o observe_v so_o that_o the_o great_a loss_n they_o be_v at_o among_o themselves_o touch_v the_o derivation_n of_o their_o authority_n be_v one_o reason_n why_o it_o may_v be_v question_v whether_o they_o have_v any_o or_o no_o the_o second_o reason_n be_v their_o unwillingness_n to_o answer_v those_o objection_n that_o their_o adversary_n the_o papist_n object_v against_o their_o ordination_n which_o be_v a_o shrewd_a sign_n they_o fear_v it_o will_v not_o abide_v the_o trial_n as_o 1._o they_o object_v that_o the_o english_a reformer_n in_o queen_n elizabeth_n be_v time_n go_v to_o a_o popish_a irish_a bishop_n that_o be_v then_o prisoner_n in_o the_o tower_n and_o promise_v he_o his_o liberty_n and_o a_o sum_n of_o money_n if_o he_o will_v ordain_v they_o bishop_n but_o he_o refuse_v 2._o it_o be_v object_v by_o their_o adversary_n the_o papist_n that_o they_o seek_v to_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o bishop_n of_o landaff_n but_o he_o refuse_v it_o 3._o it_o be_v further_a object_v that_o parker_n and_o other_o of_o the_o queen_n new_a bishop_n be_v ordain_v by_o one_o scory_n a_o priest_n at_o a_o meeting_n which_o they_o have_v for_o this_o purpose_n at_o the_o nags-head-tavern_n in_o cheapside_n to_o these_o objection_n no_o answer_n be_v give_v till_o bishop_n mason_n time_n which_o be_v nigh_o fifty_o year_n after_o when_o most_o of_o the_o man_n be_v dead_a that_o be_v the_o chief_a witness_n to_o these_o thing_n though_o the_o answer_n at_o that_o time_n much_o concern_v they_o these_o objection_n be_v then_o the_o common_a talk_n of_o their_o adversary_n a_o three_o reason_n why_o they_o be_v to_o be_v question_v appear_v in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o new-made_a bishop_n of_o winchester_n who_o indict_v bishop_n bonner_n to_o which_o bonner_n plead_v that_o winchester_n be_v no_o bishop_n according_a to_o any_o law_n and_o the_o judge_n in_o queen_n elizabeth_n time_n do_v resolve_v that_o bonner_n plea_n shall_v be_v receive_v see_v the_o abridgement_n of_o dyer_n report_n 7_o eliz._n 234._o and_o that_o they_o be_v at_o this_o time_n no_o bishop_n neither_o by_o statute-law_n or_o canon-law_n appear_v by_o the_o great_a industry_n and_o care_n that_o the_o new_a bishop_n take_v to_o get_v themselves_o confirm_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n the_o word_n of_o the_o act_n be_v these_o all_o act_n and_o thing_n heretofore_o make_v and_o do_v about_o the_o consecration_n of_o archbishop_n bishop_n priest_n etc._n etc._n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o queen_n letter_n patent_n since_o the_o begin_n of_o her_o reign_n be_v and_o shall_v be_v by_o authority_n of_o this_o parliament_n declare_v and_o judge_v good_a and_o perfect_a etc._n etc._n and_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o act_n it_o follow_v that_o all_o archbishop_n bishop_n priest_n etc._n etc._n be_v declare_v in_o very_a deed_n by_o the_o authority_n aforesaid_a and_o enact_v to_o be_v archbishop_n bishop_n priest_n etc._n etc._n and_o right_o make_v order_v and_o consecrate_v any_o statute-law_n canon-law_n or_o other_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a notwithstanding_o 8_o eliz._n 1._o so_o that_o you_o may_v see_v that_o the_o clergy_n of_o england_n be_v no_o lawful_a ordain_v minister_n neither_o by_o statute_n nor_o canon-law_n till_o the_o 8_o of_o eliz._n in_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o judge_n in_o the_o case_n of_o bonner_n and_o horn_n before_o mention_v which_o i_o desire_v may_v be_v consider_v by_o all_o judicious_a christian_n and_o then_o i_o question_v not_o but_o they_o will_v see_v that_o the_o clergy_n of_o england_n have_v little_a reason_n to_o glory_n in_o their_o apostolical_a succession_n and_o to_o cry_v down_o other_o that_o stand_v upon_o a_o more_o religious_a foot_n of_o account_n then_o themselves_o postscript_n reader_n whereas_o mr._n willes_n in_o the_o forementioned-letter_n tell_v a_o story_n of_o a_o man_n that_o be_v in_o company_n with_o i_o at_o his_o house_n as_o though_o he_o shall_v say_v he_o have_v rather_o hear_v the_o devil_n than_o a_o ordain_a minister_n give_v i_o leave_v to_o tell_v thou_o that_o this_o scandal_n carry_v enough_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o it_o to_o discover_v the_o untruth_n thereof_o to_o all_o sober_a and_o intelligent_a man_n for_o i_o think_v no_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n but_o have_v rather_o hear_v the_o worst_a of_o man_n than_o the_o devil_n himself_o and_o if_o the_o gentleman_n be_v point_n at_o be_v mr._n vancourt_n as_o i_o know_v not_o who_o else_o he_o shall_v mean_v i_o must_v tell_v thou_o that_o his_o daily_a hear_v such_o as_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o sense_n that_o mr._n willes_n call_v ordination_n be_v to_o all_o that_o know_v he_o a_o sufficient_a justification_n and_o though_o mr._n willes_n will_v have_v put_v such_o a_o sense_n upon_o some_o word_n that_o sell_v from_o this_o gentleman_n yet_o mr._n willes_n can_v but_o remember_v that_o the_o gentleman_n be_v offend_v at_o he_o for_o that_o he_o misrepresent_v he_o to_o the_o company_n then_o present_a and_o thereupon_o mr._n willes_n be_v desire_v not_o to_o misconstrue_v these_o word_n and_o he_o promise_v that_o he_o will_v not_o though_o since_o he_o have_v do_v it_o contrary_a to_o the_o gentleman_n then-declared_n meaning_n and_o his_o own_o promise_n vale._n thou_o be_v desire_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o these_o two_o error_n viz._n in_o the_o epist_n read_v organical_a for_o original_n pag_n 20._o lin_v 20._o for_o mat_n ride_v mal._n there_o be_v a_o excellent_a piece_n late_o publish_v entitle_v gospel-worship_n no_o work_n for_o infant_n clear_o prove_v the_o folly_n vanity_n and_o deceit_n of_o infant_n baptism_n and_o that_o the_o true_a worshipper_n of_o god_n be_v believe_v man_n &_o woman_n convert_v by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n not_o infant_n by_o h._n haggar_n sound_v doctrine_n or_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n about_o the_o extent_n of_o christ_n death_n with_o a_o brief_a compendium_n of_o doctrine_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n clear_v up_o the_o riches_n of_o god_n love_n to_o all_o mankind_n and_o his_o desire_n to_o save_v they_o that_o yet_o wilful_o perish_v by_o william_n pedelsden_n both_o to_o be_v sell_v by_o dan._n white_n at_o the_o seven_o star_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n finis_fw-la

confidence_n encounter_v or_o a_o vindication_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o preach_v without_o ordination_n in_o answer_n to_o a_o book_n publish_v by_o n._n e._n a_o friend_n of_o mr._n though_o willes_n entitle_v the_o confident_a questionist_n question_v together_o with_o a_o answer_n to_o a_o letter_n of_o mr._n tho._n willes_n publish_v in_o the_o say_a book_n by_o which_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o preach_v without_o ordination_n be_v clear_v and_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o national_a minister_n prove_v to_o be_v a_o nullity_n by_o jer_n ives_n how_o forcible_a be_v right_a word_n but_o what_o do_v your_o arguing_n reprove_v job_n 6.25_o as_o every_o one_o have_v receive_v the_o gift_n even_o so_o minister_v the_o same_o one_o to_o another_o as_o good_a steward_n of_o the_o manifold_a grace_n of_o god_n if_o any_o man_n speak_v let_v he_o speak_v as_o the_o oracle_n of_o god_n 1_o pet._n 4._o ●0_n ●●_o print_v at_o london_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v by_o dan._n white_n at_o the_o seven_o star_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n or_o may_v be_v have_v at_o the_o author_n house_n in_o red-cross-street_n 1658._o to_o the_o reader_n reader_n i_o have_v for_o thy_o further_a information_n in_o the_o thing_n of_o christ_n publish_v a_o answer_n to_o some_o counter_a query_n which_o be_v make_v by_o a_o unknown_a author_n in_o the_o behalf_n of_o mr._n tho._n willes_n his_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o sinfulness_n of_o preach_v without_o ordination_n in_o which_o counter-query_n thou_o may_v be_v acquaint_v with_o the_o author_n spirit_n though_o by_o his_o conceal_v his_o name_n thou_o can_v not_o be_v acquaint_v with_o his_o person_n and_o by_o a_o strict_a observation_n of_o what_o he_o have_v write_v thou_o may_v see_v that_o he_o have_v make_v good_a his_o own_o word_n viz._n that_o he_o have_v write_v enough_o to_o puzzle_v 4._o puzzle_v see_v his_o book_n page_n 4._o rather_o than_o convince_v his_o adversary_n and_o that_o appear_v by_o his_o many_o contradiction_n one_o while_o he_o say_v the_o clergy_n be_v rout_v and_o by_o and_o by_o tell_v mr._n willes_n the_o enemy_n be_v rout_v dedicatory_a rout_v see_v his_o epist_n to_o the_o reader_n and_o compare_v it_o with_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a one_o while_o he_o demand_v whether_o apollo_n be_v not_o ordain_v minister_n when_o he_o preach_v public_o act._n 18._o and_o by_o and_o by_o he_o demand_v if_o apollo_n know_v of_o any_o such_o thing_n as_o ordination_n from_o the_o apostle_n when_o he_o preach_v act._n 18._o one_o while_o he_o demand_v if_o there_o be_v a_o constitute_v original_a church_n with_o officer_n in_o it_o at_o this_o time_n when_o apollo_n preach_v 23._o see_v his_o book_n page_n 22_o 23._o act._n 18._o and_o by_o and_o by_o he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v certain_a apollo_n be_v at_o this_o time_n a_o officer_n and_o bid_v i_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v ever_o make_v a_o officer_n after_o his_o preach_n act._n 18._o again_o he_o say_v if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n than_o her_o minister_n be_v true_a minister_n when_o our_o reformer_n be_v ordain_v by_o she_o and_o demand_n why_o i_o do_v not_o disprove_v she_o to_o be_v a_o church_n pag._n 41._o and_o yet_o a_o little_a before_o he_o say_v that_o she_o be_v as_o bad_a when_o the_o minister_n do_v receive_v ordination_n from_o she_o as_o she_o be_v when_o they_o leave_v she_o and_o yet_o he_o say_v they_o leave_v she_o not_o as_o she_o be_v the_o spouse_n of_o christ_n but_o as_o she_o be_v a_o harlot_n page_n 39_o so_o that_o he_o suppose_v rome_n to_o be_v a_o harlot_n and_o christ_n spouse_n at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n again_o he_o say_v page_n 37._o that_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o corrupt_a dispenser_n of_o ordinance_n can_v make_v they_o null_a and_o yet_o he_o say_v pag._n 48._o if_o it_o be_v true_a as_o mr._n brookes_n say_v that_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v antichristian_a then_o all_o that_o they_o have_v baptize_v must_v be_v baptize_v again_o be_v not_o this_o plain_a contradiction_n as_o he_o abound_v with_o contradiction_n so_o he_o do_v with_o impertinency_n meddle_v with_o the_o trade_n that_o i_o follow_v and_o my_o be_v a_o soldier_n and_o suchlike_a thing_n that_o concern_v not_o the_o question_n before_o he_o another_o while_n he_o blame_v i_o for_o that_o he_o do_v himself_o viz._n of_o meddle_v with_o this_o controversy_n and_o take_v it_o out_o of_o mr._n brookes_n his_o hand_n when_o he_o undertake_v to_o answer_v a_o particular_a paper_n which_o be_v proper_a for_o none_o else_o to_o answer_v but_o mr._n willes_n another_o while_n he_o blame_v i_o for_o that_o i_o do_v charge_v a_o thing_n upon_o mr._n willes_n that_o i_o have_v but_o one_o witness_n for_o and_o yet_o himself_o believe_v the_o accused_n bare_a negation_n without_o any_o witness_n for_o at_o that_o time_n when_o mr._n will_v desire_v a_o gentleman_n to_o apprehend_v i_o for_o a_o jesuit_n there_o be_v none_o present_a to_o witness_v beside_o the_o gentleman_n aforesaid_a though_o at_o our_o first_o meeting_n there_o be_v divers_a again_o one_o while_o he_o say_v rome_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v minister_n as_o christ_n church_n and_o by_o and_o by_o compare_v they_o to_o thief_n and_o to_o korah_n at_o the_o time_n they_o ordain_v the_o first_o reformer_n again_o his_o book_n be_v full_a of_o unman-like_a arguing_n as_o appear_v by_o his_o frequent_a beg_v the_o chief_a thing_n in_o question_n otherwhile_o when_o i_o demand_v a_o proof_n of_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v so_o frequent_o affirm_v by_o mr._n willes_n he_o demand_v how_o i_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o and_o so_o turn_v the_o proof_n of_o the_o affirmation_n from_o himself_o and_o put_v his_o respondent_fw-la to_o prove_v negation_n sure_o this_o be_v not_o to_o give_v a_o reason_n of_o our_o hope_n to_o every_o one_o that_o ask_v with_o meekness_n and_o fear_n again_o he_o tell_v his_o reader_n that_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v bloody_a pag._n 31._o and_o pag._n 50._o he_o say_v he_o ghess_n that_o they_o be_v the_o man_n who_o hand_n be_v most_o imbrue_v in_o the_o blood_n of_o the_o late_a war_n when_o indeed_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v in_o no_o capacity_n at_o the_o begin_n of_o these_o war_n to_o blow_v those_o spark_n of_o contention_n into_o a_o burn_a flame_n if_o they_o have_v have_v a_o mind_n to_o so_o bad_a a_o work_n thus_o i_o have_v give_v thou_o a_o taste_n of_o that_o spirit_n that_o inspire_v he_o in_o the_o write_n of_o his_o book_n to_o which_o i_o have_v give_v a_o answer_n and_o though_o i_o have_v not_o answer_v to_o every_o word_n yet_o i_o have_v answer_v every_o thing_n that_o have_v any_o show_n or_o colour_n of_o reason_n in_o it_o which_o i_o desire_v thou_o faithful_o and_o impartial_o to_o consider_v try_v all_o thing_n and_o hold_v fast_o that_o which_o be_v the_o best_a and_o that_o thou_o may_v so_o do_v be_v the_o prayer_n and_o desire_n of_o thy_o friend_n jer._n ives_n confidence_n encounter_v etc._n etc._n mr._n n._n e._n according_a to_o your_o desire_n i_o have_v answer_v your_o counter_a query_n you_o send_v to_o i_o with_o a_o letter_n and_o though_o you_o have_v meddle_v with_o a_o matter_n that_o concern_v you_o not_o yet_o know_v that_o it_o concern_v i_o to_o answer_v you_o lest_o you_o shall_v be_v confirm_v in_o your_o folly_n and_o though_o you_o contemn_v my_o query_n as_o slight_a and_o call_v i_o a_o unworthy_a enemy_n yet_o i_o have_v learned_a to_o say_v contemptum_fw-la stulti_fw-la contemnere_fw-la maxima_fw-la laus_fw-la est_fw-la contemni_fw-la à_fw-la stulto_fw-la dedecus_fw-la esse_fw-la nego_fw-la to_o scorn_v a_o fool_n be_v contempt_n be_v praise_n and_o i_o his_o scorn_n to_o be_v disgrace_n do_v quite_o deny_v and_o though_o you_o think_v you_o have_v so_o rout_v i_o that_o i_o will_v never_o appear_v again_o yet_o know_v that_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o violent_a beat_n of_o the_o wave_n and_o billow_n of_o your_o ambition_n which_o i_o think_v necessary_a to_o put_v a_o check_n to_o by_o this_o ensue_a answer_n lest_o you_o shall_v be_v exalt_v above_o measure_n for_o the_o prevention_n whereof_o i_o have_v publish_v this_o reply_n and_o therein_o i_o shall_v first_o begin_v with_o your_o title_n wherein_o you_o call_v i_o a_o confident_a questionist_n but_o if_o you_o have_v read_v my_o epistle_n you_o will_v have_v find_v that_o i_o do_v question_n for_o conscience_n sake_n some_o thing_n that_o mr._n willes_n have_v deliver_v and_o withal_o do_v propound_v to_o the_o reader_n that_o if_o the_o answer_n thereunto_o do_v satisfy_v i_o shall_v bless_v the_o father_n of_o light_n that_o have_v not_o suffer_v i_o to_o labour_v in_o vain_a this_o be_v the_o great_a altitude_n of_o my_o confidence_n and_o

any_o discharge_n or_o acquittance_n for_o any_o debt_n that_o you_o owe_v i_o at_o his_o hand_n in_o like_a manner_n be_v it_o sinful_a to_o receive_v ordination_n from_o rome_n if_o they_o have_v turn_v thief_n and_o robber_n as_o you_o say_v they_o be_v than_o the_o receiver_n be_v as_o bad_a as_o the_o thief_n so_o that_o i_o shall_v need_v no_o other_o weapon_n to_o fight_v with_o you_o then_o your_o own_o but_o to_o proceed_v i_o come_v now_o quest_n 33_o to_o the_o thirty_o three_o question_n wherein_o i_o demand_v if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v power_n as_o a_o church_n and_o you_o do_v separate_v because_o of_o her_o corruption_n why_o then_o be_v mr._n brook_n to_o be_v blame_v in_o separate_v from_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n etc._n etc._n in_o your_o many-headed_a counter-query_a you_o say_v nothing_o that_o concern_v i_o to_o answer_v but_o this_o viz_o that_o because_o i_o say_v if_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n etc._n etc._n hence_o you_o glory_n and_o say_v i_o yield_v up_o my_o weapon_n by_o say_v if_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n you_o demand_v then_o to_o what_o end_n be_v all_o my_o other_o question_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v that_o you_o have_v need_n go_v to_o school_n to_o learn_v to_o distinguish_v between_o a_o hypothetical_n and_o a_o categorical_a proposition_n for_o be_v it_o not_o one_o thing_n to_o say_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o say_v if_o she_o be_v a_o true_a church_n may_v you_o not_o as_o well_o have_v tell_v your_o reader_n that_o david_n say_v he_o can_v take_v the_o wing_n of_o the_o morning_n and_o fly_v because_o he_o say_v if_o i_o take_v the_o wing_n of_o the_o morning_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o your_o triumph_n because_o i_o say_v if_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n you_o conclude_v i_o say_v she_o be_v a_o ture_n church_n o_o brave_a logician_n i_o see_v now_o there_o be_v a_o reason_n why_o you_o conceal_v your_o name_n and_o for_o those_o other_o question_n that_o you_o ask_v i_o concern_v mr._n brook_v his_o separation_n in_o p._n 41_o 42._o i_o shall_v refer_v you_o to_o he_o who_o very_o likely_a can_v give_v you_o a_o better_a answer_n than_o you_o have_v give_v to_o my_o query_n quest_n 34_o i_o demand_v in_o the_o next_o place_n why_o the_o protestant_a shepherd_n shear_v the_o papist_n since_o they_o judge_v they_o no_o sheep_n of_o their_o fold_n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o the_o question_n in_o your_o reply_n you_o say_v little_a that_o concern_v i_o to_o answer_v only_o that_o the_o church_n have_v debar_v papist_n from_o communion_n and_o thereupon_o you_o demand_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o reason_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v pay_v their_o tithe_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o there_o be_v little_a reason_n why_o any_o body_n shall_v pay_v but_o there_o be_v less_o reason_n why_o one_o that_o be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o fold_n shall_v pay_v than_o any_o nay_o there_o be_v no_o colour_n of_o reason_n why_o any_o that_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v force_v to_o maintain_v the_o minister_n shall_v not_o you_o have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v prove_v this_o before_o you_o go_v further_a viz._n that_o christ_n will_v have_v man_n pay_v tithe_n to_o a_o minister_n when_o they_o be_v thrust_v out_o of_o their_o stock_n and_o be_v put_v out_o of_o communion_n the_o rest_n of_o this_o question_n which_o you_o ask_v relate_v to_o mr._n brook_v his_o practice_n of_o which_o i_o have_v not_o so_o particular_a a_o information_n as_o a_o answer_n to_o it_o require_v and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v refer_v you_o to_o he_o for_o a_o answer_n quest_n 35_o i_o demand_v in_o the_o next_o place_n whether_o that_o the_o reason_n why_o you_o do_v exclude_v papist_n which_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o reform_v be_v not_o the_o reason_n why_o mr._n brooks_n exclude_v scandalous_a person_n viz._n because_o they_o do_v not_o reform_v etc._n etc._n your_o answer_n hereunto_o as_o far_o as_o it_o do_v concern_v i_o be_v that_o mr._n brooks_n keep_v people_n out_o of_o his_o church_n because_o they_o do_v not_o own_o his_o church_n and_o disow_v their_o own_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o you_o reject_v papist_n for_o many_o of_o they_o be_v such_o who_o life_n be_v without_o reproof_n so_o that_o you_o keep_v they_o out_o because_o they_o will_v not_o own_v your_o church_n and_o disow_v their_o own_o quest_n 36_o your_o query_n upon_o my_o thirty_o six_o question_n be_v nothing_o but_o what_o have_v be_v query_v by_o you_o before_o and_o be_v already_o answer_v both_o in_o my_o answer_n to_o m._n willes_n his_o letter_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o book_n and_o also_o in_o my_o reply_n to_o the_o twenty_o sixth_z counter-query_a quest_n 37_o i_o query_n since_o ordination_n from_o rome_n be_v throw_v off_o upon_o a_o politic_a account_n what_o ground_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o nation_n have_v to_o plead_v a_o necessity_n to_o preach_v without_o ordination_n the_o substance_n of_o your_o counter-query_a to_o this_o as_o it_o relate_v to_o your_o succession_n be_v answer_v already_o in_o the_o thirty_o six_o query_n and_o for_o that_o part_n of_o your_o question_n that_o relate_v to_o necessity_n i_o answer_v first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o our_o first_o reformer_n plead_v necessity_n for_o they_o be_v as_o idolatrous_a when_o they_o first_o rend_v from_o rome_n as_o they_o be_v when_o they_o be_v in_o communion_n with_o she_o second_o if_o they_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o of_o her_o uncleanness_n than_o there_o be_v no_o need_n for_o they_o to_o plead_v necessity_n for_o their_o preach_n without_o ordination_n since_o they_o may_v have_v be_v ordain_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o other_o country_n which_o have_v forsake_v rome_n before_o they_o and_o three_o if_o necessity_n may_v be_v a_o warrant_n to_o they_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v as_o good_a a_o warrant_n to_o other_o sect_n that_o revolt_v from_o rome_n as_o well_o as_o it_o be_v for_o those_o you_o call_v our_o first_o reformer_n so_o that_o then_o if_o any_o arrian_n or_o socinian_o etc._n etc._n shall_v have_v rend_v from_o rome_n and_o gather_v into_o a_o congregation_n they_o may_v have_v plead_v that_o they_o have_v a_o lawful_a ministry_n either_o by_o succession_n in_o that_o some_o of_o they_o have_v be_v priest_n before_o they_o revolt_v or_o else_o by_o virtue_n of_o a_o necessity_n since_o a_o positive_a law_n give_v place_n to_o necessity_n will_v not_o you_o answer_v these_o man_n that_o they_o be_v minister_n by_o neither_o of_o these_o way_n and_o so_o do_v i_o answer_v you_o as_o i_o have_v already_o do_v once_o and_o again_o and_o therefore_o when_o mr._n willes_n have_v prove_v himself_o a_o lawful_a minister_n than_o i_o shall_v say_v he_o come_v in_o by_o one_o of_o these_o way_n but_o till_o then_o let_v i_o tell_v he_o and_o you_o too_o that_o any_o sect_n that_o will_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o they_o have_v minister_n among_o they_o may_v as_o well_o justify_v their_o minister_n authority_n as_o mr._n willes_n can_v do_v he_o by_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v he_o be_v a_o minister_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o be_v never_o able_a to_o prove_v quest_n 38_o i_o demand_v when_o the_o line_n of_o succession_n be_v break_v whether_o then_o every_o one_o may_v not_o preach_v that_o be_v able_a although_o it_o may_v not_o have_v be_v lawful_a before_o etc._n etc._n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o this_o question_n to_o which_o you_o say_v nothing_o but_o what_o have_v be_v already_o answer_v over_o and_o over_o only_o you_o ask_v i_o whether_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n make_v any_o minister_n but_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a and_o undertake_v the_o charge_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o the_o man_n that_o preach_v shall_v be_v their_o own_o judge_n who_o will_v not_o think_v that_o he_o be_v fit_a and_o able_a and_o be_v it_o not_o so_o with_o those_o you_o call_v our_o first_o reformer_n be_v they_o not_o judge_n of_o their_o own_o ability_n and_o so_o make_v themselves_o minister_n of_o their_o own_o head_n and_o by_o the_o same_o rule_n other_o may_v depart_v from_o they_o as_o they_o depart_v from_o rome_n and_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o be_v head_n or_o guide_n of_o a_o congregation_n of_o people_n especial_o if_o they_o can_v object_v considerable_a error_n both_o in_o their_o life_n and_o doctrine_n quest_n 39_o my_o next_o question_n demand_n how_o it_o can_v be_v a_o sin_n for_o any_o to_o preach_v that_o be_v able_a see_v there_o be_v no_o ordination_n on_o foot_n now_o

the_o reader_n may_v see_v that_o former_a time_n do_v not_o esteem_v both_o ordination_n lawful_a viz_o that_o that_o be_v do_v by_o bishop_n and_o that_o that_o be_v do_v by_o presbyter_n but_o look_v upon_o the_o one_o as_o a_o mere_a nullity_n so_o that_o whatever_o you_o say_v there_o have_v be_v a_o manifest_a contradiction_n and_o that_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o circumstantial_a as_o you_o vain_o tell_v your_o reader_n but_o essential_a for_o not_o only_o the_o father_n but_o counsel_n judge_v ordination_n by_o presbyter_n a_o mere_a nullity_n and_o that_o episcopal_a ordination_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o be_v of_o the_o minister_n office_n so_o that_o the_o thing_n you_o so_o much_o talk_v of_o viz._n that_o both_o these_o ordination_n be_v of_o god_n be_v a_o mere_a fiction_n but_o more_o of_o this_o anon_o quest_n 23_o in_o my_o twenty_o three_o query_n i_o demand_v if_o that_o the_o independent-ordination_a be_v of_o god_n wherein_o be_v mr._n brookes_n to_o be_v condemn_v if_o he_o preach_v according_a to_o the_o independent-ordination_a you_o hereupon_o tell_v your_o old_a tale_n viz_o that_o you_o can_v believe_v by_o what_o i_o have_v urge_v any_o ordination_n to_o be_v according_a to_o rule_n but_o what_o be_v do_v by_o minister_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v no_o part_n of_o my_o business_n in_o the_o question_n propose_v from_o first_o to_o last_o for_o all_o my_o business_n be_v to_o show_v by_o the_o light_n of_o those_o query_n that_o it_o be_v not_o sinful_a to_o preach_v without_o ordination_n and_o that_o mr._n willes_n his_o ordination_n be_v a_o mere_a nullity_n that_o he_o so_o much_o glory_n in_o and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o that_o which_o christ_n approve_v of_o and_o for_o your_o slander_n in_o say_v that_o i_o appear_v for_o independency_n as_o a_o cloak_n for_o anabaptism_n etc._n etc._n do_v you_o not_o blush_v when_o you_o write_v this_o horrid_a untruth_n have_v i_o not_o your_o own_o confession_n appear_v as_o public_o for_o that_o which_o you_o call_v anabaptism_n do_v you_o not_o tell_v your_o reader_n that_o i_o do_v public_o appear_v at_o the_o disputation_n hold_v at_o clement_n without_o temple-bar_n which_o be_v against_o infant-baptism_n and_o have_v i_o not_o publish_v my_o opinion_n in_o print_n touch_v this_o controversy_n and_o yet_o you_o be_v so_o impudent_a as_o to_o tell_v your_o reader_n i_o appear_v for_o independency_n as_o a_o cloak_n that_o my_o design_n may_v be_v the_o more_o plausible_a it_o be_v no_o wonder_n that_o you_o conceal_v your_o name_n since_o you_o can_v write_v at_o this_o rate_n quest_n 24_o i_o ask_v in_o my_o twenty_o four_o question_n if_o that_o ordination_n by_o presbyter_n be_v the_o only_a ordination_n where_o be_v a_o ordination_n to_o be_v have_v in_o england_n thirty_o year_n ago_o your_o query_n thereupon_o be_v nothing_o but_o to_o inquire_v whether_o presbyterian_a and_o episcopal-ordination_a may_v not_o both_o be_v lawful_a and_o bid_v i_o prove_v by_o the_o next_o that_o bishop_n can_v not_o ordain_v then_o and_o that_o presbyter_n can_v ordain_v mow_n oh_o shameless_a disputant_n i_o tell_v you_o you_o can_v talk_v of_o logic_n but_o how_o little_a you_o use_v let_v the_o reader_n judge_n my_o main_a design_n in_o propose_v my_o question_n be_v to_o put_v some_o one_o or_o other_o upon_o the_o proof_n of_o that_o which_o be_v so_o frequent_o assert_v viz._n that_o the_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n or_o by_o presbyter_n be_v of_o god_n mean_v that_o which_o be_v practise_v by_o the_o national_a minister_n and_o you_o come_v forth_o and_o bid_v i_o prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n can_v not_o and_o that_o the_o presbyter_n can_v if_o you_o can_v dispute_v no_o better_o you_o shall_v never_o commence_v master_n of_o arts._n sir_n be_v it_o not_o a_o sad_a thing_n for_o you_o to_o tell_v your_o reader_n in_o your_o epistle_n to_o he_o that_o this_o doctrine_n of_o ordination_n that_o be_v now_o contend_v for_o be_v a_o foundation-doctrine_n and_o when_o you_o be_v demand_v a_o proof_n of_o it_o you_o shameful_o shuffle_v and_o bid_v i_o prove_v in_o my_o next_o that_o it_o be_v not_o and_o that_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o ordain_v or_o if_o the_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n do_v not_o ordain_v true_a minister_n therefore_o take_v a_o answer_n i_o say_v they_o do_v not_o and_o charge_v you_o in_o your_o next_o to_o reason_n like_o a_o man_n and_o prove_v they_o do_v quest_n 25_o in_o my_o twenty_o five_o query_n i_o demand_v why_o mr._n willes_n do_v not_o tell_v his_o hearer_n which_o of_o those_o divers_a kind_n of_o ordination_n it_o be_v that_o god_n approve_v of_o this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o this_o query_n to_o which_o you_o reply_v and_o the_o sum_n of_o all_o you_o say_v be_v that_o if_o i_o have_v hear_v mr._n willes_n in_o all_o his_o sermon_n upon_o this_o subject_a i_o may_v have_v understand_v that_o he_o be_v not_o rigid_a for_o episcopacy_n presbytery_n nor_o independency_n but_o for_o a_o moderation_n etc._n etc._n and_o that_o ordination_n any_o of_o these_o way_n be_v good_a see_v the_o difference_n be_v but_o in_o circumstance_n etc._n etc._n i_o have_v answer_v to_o this_o already_o over_o and_o over_o that_o these_o by_o your_o own_o confession_n must_v all_o of_o they_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v christ_n minister_n before_o their_o ordination_n must_v be_v value_v and_o also_o you_o must_v prove_v that_o christ_n ever_o do_v allow_v of_o ordination_n so_o palpable_o contradictious_a as_o these_o be_v which_o will_v further_o appear_v in_o my_o follow_a answer_n before_o there_o be_v any_o weight_n in_o what_o you_o or_o m._n willes_n have_v say_v to_o this_o question_n however_o if_o mr._n willes_n do_v well_o in_o be_v indifferent_a in_o this_o matter_n how_o evil_o have_v the_o generality_n of_o our_o presbyterian_o spend_v their_o time_n about_o such_o trifle_a circumstance_n while_o the_o more_o weighty_a matter_n have_v be_v neglect_v for_o how_o furious_o have_v they_o oppose_v the_o episcopal_a and_o independent_a government_n and_o governor_n though_o they_o have_v be_v such_o which_o you_o say_v be_v christ_n minister_n and_o that_o the_o difference_n be_v but_o circumstantial_a for_o the_o proof_n of_o this_o i_o shall_v refer_v the_o reader_n to_o mr._n edward_n his_o gangraena_fw-la wherein_o he_o as_o much_o condemn_v ordain_v minister_n in_o the_o independent_a way_n as_o any_o other_o sect_n whatever_o and_o this_o be_v general_o approve_v of_o by_o most_o of_o the_o presbyterian_a race_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o several_a letter_n send_v to_o encourage_v mr._n edward_n which_o he_o have_v print_v in_o his_o book_n which_o he_o say_v he_o receive_v from_o godly_a presbyterian-minister_n nay_o be_v not_o the_o noise_n of_o this_o hot_a difference_n fresh_a in_o the_o ear_n of_o all_o intelligent_a man_n which_o you_o must_v needs_o say_v be_v to_o little_a purpose_n if_o what_o you_o say_v of_o all_o these_o sort_n of_o ordination_n be_v true_a quest_n 26_o i_o further_o demand_v whether_o mr._n willes_n his_o ordination_n be_v from_o the_o line_n of_o succession_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v from_o any_o necessity_n etc._n etc._n and_o you_o ask_v i_o whether_o i_o do_v not_o grant_v that_o a_o true_a succession_n make_v true_a minister_n and_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n when_o the_o succession_n in_o break_v off_o and_o whether_o such_o a_o necessity_n do_v not_o make_v true_a minister_n this_o be_v that_o you_o call_v unanswerable_a this_o you_o challenge_v i_o to_o answer_v and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v soon_o dismount_v your_o confidence_n by_o tell_v you_o that_o by_o this_o argument_n i_o be_o a_o true_a minister_n for_o either_o i_o be_o one_o by_o succession_n or_o necessity_n if_o the_o line_n of_o succession_n be_v break_v than_o i_o be_o a_o minister_n by_o necessity_n will_v not_o this_o argument_n justify_v all_o sect_n that_o schism_v from_o rome_n as_o well_o as_o you_o and_o do_v not_o all_o the_o sect_n that_o depart_v from_o rome_n into_o other_o novel_a and_o strange_a opinion_n worse_o than_o those_o they_o leave_v reason_n thus_o that_o they_o either_o have_v some_o man_n which_o be_v in_o religious_a order_n that_o separate_v with_o they_o and_o so_o they_o pretend_v that_o they_o have_v a_o successive_a authority_n or_o else_o they_o will_v tell_v you_o that_o they_o be_v the_o first_o reformer_n and_o therefore_o positive_a law_n must_v give_v place_n to_o necessity_n and_o therefore_o all_o that_o succeed_v from_o they_o be_v a_o true_a ministry_n i_o challenge_v you_o to_o answer_v why_o this_o be_v not_o as_o good_a a_o argument_n to_o prove_v any_o company_n of_o man_n that_o shall_v depart_v from_o rome_n to_o be_v a_o true_a ministry_n as_o well_o as_o any_o that_o you_o plead_v for_o