english_a church_n and_o we_o deny_v not_o the_o same_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n as_o they_o also_o require_v testimony_n of_o their_o piety_n if_o any_o do_v but_o present_a a_o child_n to_o baptism_n in_o their_o church_n we_o have_v often_o profess_v this_o and_o by_o your_o own_o grant_n most_o of_o the_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o english_a church_n have_v renounce_v their_o right_n of_o membership_n and_o commuion_n with_o the_o church_n they_o be_v of_o there_o reply_n three_o this_o order_n be_v observe_v by_o they_o to_o prevent_v the_o imposture_n of_o some_o that_o pretend_v to_o the_o english_a they_o be_v join_v to_o the_o stranger_n &_o contra_fw-la answ_n this_o be_v not_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o their_o order_n for_o his_o word_n be_v all_o stranger_n do_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o our_o church_n yea_o there_o be_v those_o that_o avoid_v all_o church_n etc._n etc._n which_o plain_o show_v they_o look_v further_a than_o such_o according_a to_o our_o practice_n even_o their_o own_o country_n man_n flee_v for_o religion_n as_o we_o be_v they_o yet_o receive_v they_o not_o till_o by_o public_a profession_n of_o faith_n and_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n they_o join_v themselves_o to_o some_o congregationall_a church_n second_o this_o show_v what_o disorder_n and_o abuse_v of_o ordinance_n will_v follow_v from_o such_o a_o liberty_n to_o admit_v such_o as_o be_v not_o join_v to_o some_o church_n for_o by_o this_o mean_v many_o will_v neglect_v all_o order_n and_o discipline_n if_o they_o may_v but_o have_v the_o seal_n three_o to_o put_v all_o out_o of_o question_n that_o their_o practice_n and_o judgement_n in_o effect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o we_o in_o this_o point_n note_v the_o first_o question_n propound_v by_o they_o be_v these_o infant_n which_o you_o offer_v the_o seed_n of_o this_o church_n that_o they_o may_v lawful_o be_v here_o baptize_v by_o our_o ministry_n chap._n xiii_o thus_o far_o we_o have_v answer_v to_o the_o reply_v make_v to_o the_o consideration_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o 3._o and_o 4._o position_n now_o whereas_o we_o take_v notice_n of_o three_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o consideration_n and_o answer_v the_o same_o it_o please_v the_o learned_a author_n to_o take_v up_o only_o two_o of_o they_o and_o with_o much_o enlargement_n to_o urge_v the_o same_o as_o his_o reason_n against_o the_o position_n and_o to_o apply_v our_o answer_n thereunto_o by_o which_o mean_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n brief_o set_v down_o may_v seem_v not_o so_o apt_a and_o full_a here_o as_o they_o will_v appear_v in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o therefore_o it_o will_v be_v needful_a for_o we_o to_o enlarge_v ourselves_o somewhat_o in_o answer_v some_o passage_n at_o least_o in_o the_o reason_n as_o they_o be_v here_o propound_v before_o we_o come_v to_o the_o reply_n reply_n reason_n 1._o that_o sacred_a order_n god_n have_v set_v in_o his_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n answ_n these_o word_n with_o all_o that_o follow_v whatever_o they_o may_v seem_v to_o carry_v with_o they_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o bare_a denial_n of_o the_o position_n in_o variety_n of_o expression_n reply_n for_o first_o the_o baptism_n of_o john_n be_v true_a baptism_n etc._n etc._n but_o he_o never_o demand_v of_o those_o he_o receive_v whether_o they_o be_v enter_v into_o church_n covenant_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o we_o have_v in_o substance_n before_o and_o be_v answer_v with_o all_o the_o other_o instance_n in_o this_o first_o reason_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n and_o in_o other_o place_n and_o therefore_o in_o vain_a here_o to_o repeat_v the_o same_o and_o we_o have_v observe_v more_o than_o once_o your_o plain_a confession_n that_o the_o apostle_n constitute_v church_n by_o baptism_n even_o such_o church_n as_o they_o set_v elder_n in_o by_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n reply_n the_o second_o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o because_o from_o christ_n and_o the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n we_o learn_v that_o such_o as_o be_v call_v of_o god_n receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n believe_v in_o the_o lord_n profess_v their_o faith_n in_o he_o with_o repentance_n and_o amendment_n of_o life_n have_v a_o right_n to_o baptism_n and_o desire_v it_o be_v wrong_v if_o they_o be_v deprive_v thereof_o answ_n we_o grant_v the_o whole_a but_o as_o it_o be_v suppose_v in_o due_a order_n they_o must_v receive_v it_o so_o we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o we_o grant_v upon_o these_o common_a ground_n such_o have_v jus_o ad_fw-la rem_fw-la but_o not_o jus_o in_o re_fw-mi and_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o reply_n three_o by_o a_o lively_a faith_n a_o man_n have_v internal_a communion_n with_o christ_n by_o profession_n of_o the_o entire_a faith_n join_v with_o conformity_n of_o life_n in_o righteousness_n holiness_n and_o fellowship_n of_o love_n he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a congregation_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n though_o no_o set_a member_n of_o a_o free_a independent_a society_n and_o baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n not_o ever_o more_o but_o by_o accident_n of_o our_o receive_n into_o a_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n this_o reason_n stand_v upon_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o can_v be_v find_v and_o it_o be_v before_o confess_v that_o the_o catholic_n church_n consist_v of_o all_o true_a particular_a church_n as_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o how_o can_v a_o man_n be_v visible_o a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a and_o belong_v to_o no_o part_n thereof_o second_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o such_o have_v a_o right_a to_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o baptism_n and_o all_o ordinance_n but_o as_o by_o such_o profession_n they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n so_o neither_o have_v they_o immediate_a right_n to_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o without_o admittance_n into_o the_o same_o fit_a matter_n such_o be_v for_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n that_o profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o do_v not_o admit_v they_o actual_o thereunto_o and_o your_o own_o expression_n secret_o imply_v as_o much_o when_o you_o say_v baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o church_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n if_o baptism_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n than_o there_o be_v a_o admission_n thereunto_o before_o baptism_n but_o who_o do_v admit_v and_o where_o and_o when_o be_v any_o admit_v to_o the_o church_n but_o in_o particular_a congregation_n can_v any_o be_v admit_v into_o a_o church_n that_o whole_a church_n be_v ignorant_a thereof_o but_o a_o man_n may_v profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n and_o live_v according_o among_o the_o heathen_a where_o neither_o any_o church_n nor_o member_n of_o it_o take_v knowledge_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o bare_a profession_n do_v not_o admit_v man_n but_o make_v they_o fit_a to_o be_v receive_v and_o admit_v into_o the_o visible_a church_n your_o four_o reason_n we_o have_v have_v twice_o before_o and_o answer_v the_o same_o reply_n to_o our_o answer_n of_o the_o first_o objection_n from_o the_o instance_n of_o the_o centurion_n lydia_n the_o jailor_n and_o the_o eâ—…nuch_n first_o if_o where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v and_o receive_v and_o faith_n profess_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n there_o none_o may_v hinder_v from_o be_v baptize_v scil_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o then_o either_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n or_o baptism_n be_v not_o a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o be_v not_o essential_a to_o baptism_n in_o the_o first_o institution_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v dispense_v to_o none_o but_o member_n of_o a_o congregationall_a assembly_n answ_n it_o be_v free_o grant_v first_o that_o baptism_n be_v a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n second_o that_o such_o as_o profess_v the_o faith_n and_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n if_o by_o church_n â—…ee_v mean_v the_o church_n mystical_a consider_v as_o visible_a though_o not_o always_o political_a three_o that_o these_o may_v receive_v baptism_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o but_o immediate_o to_o baptize_v they_o none_o have_v power_n but_o by_o a_o extraordinary_a call_n of_o god_n so_o to_o do_v as_o have_v be_v former_o show_v but_o it_o will_v not_o hence_o follow_v that_o ordinary_a officer_n have_v such_o a_o power_n want_v such_o extraordinary_a call_n because_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a have_v right_o unto_o the_o seal_n yet_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o they_o must_v have_v by_o ordinary_a officer_n in_o a_o political_a body_n the_o only_a
answer_n we_o have_v study_v not_o only_o to_o answer_v to_o the_o reply_n but_o have_v take_v in_o what_o sundry_a other_o godly_a learned_a object_n against_o our_o principle_n but_o without_o mention_v scarce_o any_o time_n their_o name_n of_o which_o we_o be_v spare_v for_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o because_o we_o honour_v the_o man_n from_o our_o very_a heart_n and_o can_v wish_v though_o different_o mind_v from_o we_o in_o some_o thing_n as_o melanchthon_n do_v in_o another_o the_o like_a case_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o bosom_n the_o name_n of_o this_o servant_n of_o christ_n now_o asleep_a be_v a_o ointment_n pour_v out_o and_o precious_a to_o we_o we_o can_v therefore_o have_v wish_v it_o our_o portion_n to_o have_v answer_v the_o book_n without_o the_o least_o reflect_v upon_o he_o but_o the_o necessity_n herein_o be_v unavoidable_a this_o only_a we_o add_v that_o whatever_o weakness_n may_v pass_v from_o we_o let_v they_o not_o be_v impute_v to_o those_o servant_n of_o christ_n that_o set_v we_o on_o work_n and_o have_v want_v leisure_n to_o review_v what_o be_v here_o do_v every_o one_o may_v not_o be_v in_o all_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o we_o for_o they_o may_v meet_v we_o in_o the_o same_o end_n though_o they_o use_v not_o the_o same_o argument_n or_o become_v follower_n of_o we_o in_o the_o same_o path_n yet_o we_o know_v we_o be_v not_o alone_o in_o any_o thing_n but_o may_v safe_o say_v this_o much_o that_o what_o be_v here_o defend_v be_v general_o acknowledge_v and_o receive_v in_o these_o church_n of_o christ_n a_o defence_n of_o the_o nine_o position_n chap._n i._n concern_v the_o title_n whereas_o it_o be_v call_v a_o new_a churchway_n we_o little_o expect_v that_o brethren_n studious_a of_o reformation_n who_o have_v be_v so_o exercise_v with_o imputation_n of_o novelty_n will_v have_v so_o ready_o and_o in_o the_o frontispiece_n cast_v the_o same_o upon_o we_o who_o with_o they_o desire_v to_o walk_v in_o the_o first_o way_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o his_o holy_a apostle_n but_o as_o in_o most_o substantial_a point_n of_o church-order_n we_o go_v along_o with_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n so_o we_o doubt_v not_o to_o make_v it_o good_a that_o wherein_o we_o press_v after_o further_a reformation_n seem_v to_o differ_v from_o they_o yet_o we_o build_v upon_o scripture_n ground_n acknowledge_v by_o many_o godly_a and_o learned_a reformer_n in_o our_o english_a and_o other_o reform_a church_n which_o if_o the_o lord_n have_v in_o mercy_n give_v we_o further_o â—…ight_n or_o rather_o opportunity_n to_o practice_v than_o they_o have_v let_v it_o not_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o for_o novelty_n a_o new_a edition_n of_o the_o old_a churchway_n of_o godly_a reformer_n in_o some_o thing_n perhaps_o correct_v and_o amend_v be_v no_o new_a churchway_n or_o if_o it_o be_v think_v the_o mend_n of_o some_o crook_n in_o the_o old_a way_n make_v a_o new_a way_n we_o answer_v with_o junius_n in_o a_o case_n not_o unlike_a ut_fw-la cunque_fw-la nâ—…vam_fw-la esse_fw-la videâ—…tur_fw-la 〈◊〉_d quaecunque_fw-la sunt_fw-la vetera_fw-la 6._o fuerunt_fw-la nova_fw-la ac_fw-la non_fw-la propterâ—…a_fw-la nouâ—…tatâ—â—_n nomine_fw-la vitiosa_fw-la nisi_fw-la forte_fw-fr novam_fw-la pro_fw-la renovatâ_fw-la &_o restitutâ_fw-la accipitis_fw-la quo_fw-la sensuâ—…_n novam_fw-la esse_fw-la hanc_fw-la viam_fw-la agnosciâ—â—â—_n one_o thing_n more_o in_o the_o title_n page_n the_o reader_n be_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o that_o whereas_o it_o be_v say_v this_o treatise_n of_o mr._n ball_n be_v pen_v a_o little_a before_o his_o death_n and_o send_v over_o 1637._o it_o seem_v to_o be_v a_o mistake_n of_o the_o printer_n for_o the_o nine_o question_n themselves_o be_v send_v over_o 1636_o the_o answer_n return_v 38_o but_o miscarry_v another_o be_v send_v 39_o from_o which_o time_n we_o longing_o expect_v a_o return_n but_o partly_o for_o the_o reason_n render_v in_o the_o epistle_n and_o what_o else_o we_o know_v not_o we_o never_o in_o so_o many_o year_n receive_v any_o till_o this_o print_a reply_n by_o a_o friend_n mean_n come_v occasional_o to_o our_o hand_n 1644._o concern_v the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n whereas_o the_o publisher_n of_o this_o treatise_n impute_v unto_o we_o or_o some_o relate_v to_o our_o cause_n that_o we_o be_v the_o volunteer_n such_o as_o cry_v up_o this_o way_n and_o forward_o to_o blow_v such_o thing_n abroad_o in_o the_o world_n which_o press_v they_o to_o make_v this_o controversy_n public_a 1_o we_o may_v true_o profess_v before_o the_o world_n that_o our_o epistle_n send_v with_o our_o former_a answer_n proceed_v from_o a_o spirit_n of_o love_n and_o peace_n with_o a_o humble_a willingness_n to_o receive_v further_a light_n by_o the_o holy_a and_o just_a animadversion_n of_o our_o reverend_a and_o belâ—â—â—d_a brethren_n which_o we_o earnest_o expect_v as_o man_n 〈…〉_z after_o the_o truth_n 2_o that_o we_o be_v altogether_o ignorant_a of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o that_o our_o answer_n and_o in_o that_o it_o be_v publish_v then_o be_v not_o without_o our_o utter_a dislike_n we_o have_v neither_o sound_v trumpet_n nor_o strike_v up_o drum_n to_o any_o if_o any_o such_o volunteer_n we_o hearty_o grieve_v that_o there_o be_v any_o difference_n between_o brethren_n much_o more_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v publish_v most_o of_o all_o if_o before_o they_o be_v private_o debate_v and_o bring_v to_o some_o head_n by_o mutual_a consent_n be_v think_v fit_a to_o be_v send_v out_o to_o public_a consideration_n 3_o for_o our_o brethren_n in_o england_n we_o know_v no_o reason_n to_o question_v the_o truth_n of_o that_o apology_n of_o our_o brother_n mr._n thomas_n weld_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o w._n r._n pag._n 2._o obj._n 3_o answ_n 1._o where_o he_o profess_v in_o the_o name_n of_o himself_o and_o other_o of_o our_o way_n a_o loathness_n to_o appear_v in_o the_o case_n and_o that_o although_o they_o have_v book_n of_o this_o subject_a ready_a for_o the_o press_n yet_o by_o joint_a consent_n they_o suppress_v they_o happy_o to_o the_o detriment_n of_o the_o cause_n be_v unwilling_a to_o blow_v a_o fire_n and_o whether_o they_o appear_v in_o pulpit_n or_o press_n without_o instigation_n and_o how_o spare_o he_o appeal_v to_o all_o the_o godly_a to_o judge_v 4_o last_o we_o desire_v our_o brethren_n to_o consider_v the_o date_n of_o mr._n ball_n his_o book_n print_v for_o stint_a liturgy_n one_o chief_a part_n of_o this_o controversy_n and_o the_o print_a answer_n to_o the_o nine_o question_n and_o let_v that_o resolve_v the_o question_n who_o of_o we_o come_v first_o volunteer_n into_o the_o field_n and_o if_o any_o through_o weakness_n or_o zeal_n without_o knowledge_n have_v be_v too_o clamorous_a to_o cry_v up_o new-england_n way_n with_o reproach_n to_o other_o we_o desire_v the_o world_n to_o take_v notice_n that_o they_o have_v neither_o patent_n nor_o pattern_n from_o we_o so_o to_o do_v who_o come_v not_o hither_o proud_o to_o censure_v other_o but_o to_o reform_v our_o own_o chap._n ii_o qu._n 1._o that_o a_o stint_a form_n of_o prayer_n and_o set_a liturgy_n be_v unlawful_a reply_n this_o position_n can_v bear_v that_o meaning_n which_o you_o give_v it_o if_o you_o take_v it_o according_a to_o our_o mind_n and_o the_o plain_a construction_n of_o the_o word_n we_o never_o question_v why_o you_o make_v not_o use_v of_o a_o liturgy_n etc._n etc._n answ_n let_v our_o answer_n be_v view_v and_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o we_o have_v just_a cause_n to_o premise_v those_o distinction_n of_o form_n of_o prayer_n into_o private_a and_o public_a and_o public_a into_o such_o as_o be_v impose_v by_o other_o or_o compose_v and_o use_v by_o minister_n themselves_o before_o their_o sermon_n otherwise_o we_o must_v have_v involve_v such_o in_o the_o position_n as_o we_o do_v not_o condemn_v now_o if_o your_o general_a thesis_fw-la just_o admit_v such_o limitation_n to_o public_a impose_v form_n where_o shall_v we_o find_v any_o set_n stint_v impose_v liturgy_n but_o in_o church_n of_o the_o papacy_n or_o prelacy_n no_o reform_a church_n stint_v or_o impose_v their_o form_n of_o prayer_n but_o leave_v minister_n and_o people_n at_o much_o liberty_n only_o the_o english_a liturgy_n therefore_o be_v such_o according_a to_o the_o plain_a construction_n of_o the_o word_n 2_o concern_v your_o mind_n in_o the_o position_n we_o deny_v not_o but_o you_o may_v intend_v to_o draw_v from_o we_o a_o approbation_n of_o stint_a liturgy_n in_o general_a that_o so_o you_o may_v have_v to_o stay_v the_o separation_n of_o people_n from_o your_o liturgy_n whereof_o you_o complain_v but_o by_o that_o it_o appear_v plain_o what_o your_o chief_a scope_n and_o aim_n be_v in_o the_o position_n according_a unto_o which_o we_o think_v it_o most_o safe_a and_o pertinent_a for_o we_o to_o
exposition_n of_o this_o text_n we_o have_v not_o observe_v one_o substantial_a ground_n or_o approve_a author_n to_o be_v allege_v dr._n ames_n show_v the_o necessity_n of_o christian_n join_v themselves_o to_o some_o peculiar_a church_n give_v this_o reason_n quoniam_fw-la alius_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la quin_fw-la conturbentur_fw-la signa_fw-la illa_fw-la quibus_fw-la fideles_fw-la ab_fw-la infidelibus_fw-la discerni_fw-la possunt_fw-la 1_o cor._n 5.12_o but_o herein_o dr._n ames_n manifest_o show_v that_o by_o they_o without_o heathen_n and_o unbeliever_n must_v be_v understand_v and_o not_o believer_n though_o of_o no_o settle_a society_n for_o the_o time_n for_o thus_o we_o conceive_v he_o argue_v the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v to_o be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n must_v not_o be_v confound_v but_o unless_o christian_n make_v themselves_o actual_a member_n of_o a_o church_n the_o sign_n whereby_o the_o faithful_a be_v discern_v from_o unbeliever_n will_v be_v obscure_v and_o darken_v and_o if_o this_o be_v his_o reason_n how_o can_v that_o text_n be_v allege_v unless_o by_o man_n without_o infidel_n be_v understand_v answ_n first_o that_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o allege_v it_o in_o that_o sense_n and_o respect_v declare_v may_v appear_v by_o our_o answer_n to_o your_o objection_n second_o that_o we_o have_v one_o approve_a author_n so_o allege_v it_o viz._n doctor_n ames_n shall_v appear_v in_o clear_n his_o meaning_n from_o your_o objection_n 1._o grant_v that_o by_o man_n without_o according_a to_o doctor_n ames_n his_o reason_n infidel_n be_v understand_v by_o the_o apostle_n yet_o how_o shall_v the_o sign_n discern_v believer_n from_o unbeliever_n be_v confound_v by_o such_o as_o join_v not_o to_o some_o particular_a church_n if_o those_o believer_n do_v not_o in_o some_o respect_n stand_v without_o among_o unbeliever_n and_o the_o consequence_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o the_o own_o syllogism_n whereinto_o you_o cast_v his_o argument_n will_v have_v conclude_v so_o much_o if_o it_o have_v be_v suffer_v to_o speak_v out_o in_o the_o conclusion_n for_o in_o stead_n of_o say_v except_o such_o join_v to_o some_o church_n the_o sign_n will_v be_v darken_v and_o obscure_v the_o reason_n right_o conclude_v will_v have_v say_v fieri_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la it_o can_v be_v but_o the_o sign_n will_v be_v confound_v and_o therefore_o in_o his_o judgement_n it_o be_v unavoidablâ—…_n that_o such_o mix_v themselves_o with_o unbeliever_n that_o be_v without_o indeed_o proper_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n reply_n again_o doctor_n ames_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 17._o speak_v of_o infant_n to_o be_v receive_v say_v it_o be_v require_v first_o that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n by_o outward_a profession_n etc._n etc._n answ_n what_o you_o allege_v here_o out_o of_o doctor_n ames_n we_o confess_v show_v that_o he_o be_v very_o large_a in_o his_o charity_n about_o the_o baptise_v of_o infant_n extend_v the_o same_o to_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o may_v seem_v by_o some_o passage_n that_o he_o understand_v by_o profession_n of_o faith_n such_o as_o live_v in_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o look_n at_o the_o child_n of_o a_o papist_n as_o one_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o substance_n though_o so_o exceed_o corrupt_a but_o all_o this_o do_v not_o disprove_v that_o he_o understand_v 1_o cor._n 5.12_o otherwise_o then_o have_v be_v say_v what_o you_o allege_v out_o of_o his_o second_o manuduction_n concern_v the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o consent_v unto_o neither_o do_v we_o deny_v seal_n to_o any_o if_o they_o demand_v they_o as_o member_n of_o any_o true_a church_n in_o england_n and_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n chap._n x._o consid_n 5._o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n if_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o divine_a institution_n to_o admit_v of_o approve_a christian_n lawful_o baptize_v walk_v in_o the_o faith_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o partaker_n of_o church_n privilege_n among_o we_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n or_o their_o child_n to_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v not_o enter_v into_o church-fellowship_n according_a to_o your_o order_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a though_o no_o such_o evil_a consequence_n be_v to_o be_v fear_v but_o if_o by_o accident_n some_o abuse_n shall_v fall_v out_o the_o evil_a be_v to_o be_v prevent_v by_o all_o lawful_a mean_n but_o the_o faithful_a be_v not_o to_o be_v debar_v utter_o of_o the_o order_n of_o god_n whereto_o they_o have_v right_a and_o title_n by_o his_o free_a grant_n and_o gracious_a institution_n answ_n we_o can_v but_o still_o complain_v of_o this_o liberty_n which_o be_v take_v in_o change_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n first_o that_o clause_n member_n of_o visible_a church_n be_v not_o in_o the_o poâ—…ition_n nor_o be_v it_o maintain_v by_o we_o in_o that_o sense_n neither_o do_v we_o limit_v church-fellowship_n to_o our_o order_n as_o it_o be_v call_v but_o acknowledge_v church_n defective_a in_o matter_n of_o order_n as_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apparent_a wrong_n to_o we_o and_o to_o the_o reader_n so_o oft_o to_o put_v in_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v not_o in_o the_o controversy_n second_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a by_o divine_a institution_n may_v not_o evil_a consequence_n be_v add_v and_o if_o both_o hold_n be_v not_o our_o reason_n the_o more_o strong_a what_o need_v then_o such_o a_o reply_n three_o we_o have_v oft_o grant_v a_o remote_a right_n but_o next_o and_o immediate_a we_o still_o deny_v and_o we_o conceive_v no_o other_o order_n of_o god_n in_o his_o church_n to_o prevent_v such_o evil_n then_o by_o join_v to_o the_o institute_v church_n of_o christ_n reply_n seal_n may_v be_v profane_v when_o the_o dispenser_n can_v help_v it_o but_o here_o be_v no_o fear_n or_o danger_n of_o such_o consequence_n necessary_a to_o follow_v for_o we_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o sort_n at_o random_n but_o of_o christian_n profess_v the_o faith_n entire_o lawful_o baptize_v know_v and_o approve_v to_o the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n among_o we_o sufficient_o know_v to_o you_o or_o orderly_o recommend_v etc._n etc._n answ_n the_o fear_n and_o danger_n in_o this_o case_n be_v more_o than_o so_o far_o off_o can_v easy_o be_v discern_v though_o the_o limitation_n be_v good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o the_o application_n of_o this_o description_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o will_v open_v a_o door_n wide_a than_o many_o can_v imagine_v for_o many_o such_o in_o the_o judgement_n even_o of_o the_o wise_a come_v into_o this_o state_n of_o temptation_n prove_v far_o otherwise_o even_o yourselves_o be_v judge_n if_o you_o be_v here_o we_o suppose_v the_o experience_n of_o the_o discovery_n god_n have_v make_v in_o these_o late_a trial_n of_o england_n among_o forward_a professor_n will_v teach_v our_o brethren_n to_o consider_v how_o many_o professor_n may_v prove_v here_o yet_o second_o if_o you_o add_v such_o as_o retain_v their_o membership_n in_o your_o church_n be_v recommend_v unto_o we_o by_o your_o church_n or_o by_o know_a godly_a minister_n we_o can_v then_o according_a to_o order_n receive_v they_o and_o avoid_v the_o confusion_n and_o inconvenience_n we_o object_v three_o if_o also_o it_o be_v take_v into_o the_o description_n know_v and_o sufficient_o approve_v of_o ourselves_o than_o the_o door_n be_v open_a to_o they_o to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o though_o they_o can_v settle_v in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o present_a abode_n and_o this_o way_n of_o order_n will_v prevent_v the_o inconvenience_n but_o if_o we_o come_v to_o put_v a_o difference_n any_o other_o way_n we_o can_v avoid_v it_o but_o great_a offence_n will_v be_v give_v to_o many_o and_o the_o inconvenience_n object_v in_o some_o degree_n at_o least_o will_v follow_v here_o with_o we_o and_o it_o may_v be_v much_o more_o in_o some_o other_o place_n reply_n you_o profess_v high_a respect_n to_o your_o brethren_n in_o old_a england_n but_o it_o seem_v you_o judge_v they_o insufficient_a to_o give_v you_o orderly_a testimony_n of_o the_o sincerity_n of_o approve_a christian_n well_o know_v and_o live_v among_o they_o which_o two_o can_v well_o agree_v answ_n this_o position_n hold_v forth_o no_o such_o judgement_n of_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o case_n neither_o have_v we_o show_v it_o by_o reject_v such_o orderly_a testimony_n that_o we_o know_v reply_n we_o speak_v not_o of_o such_o who_o against_o light_n refuse_v to_o profess_v subjection_n to_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n or_o to_o join_v to_o some_o approve_a church_n etc._n etc._n answ_n neither_o do_v we_o impute_v that_o to_o all_o that_o join_v not_o unto_o we_o but_o our_o meaning_n be_v that_o under_o such_o a_o
conclusion_n as_o for_o mr._n robinson_n though_o we_o do_v not_o approve_v the_o sentence_n you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o yet_o we_o doubt_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o go_v beyond_o his_o sense_n &_o meaning_n but_o according_a to_o our_o sense_n of_o this_o position_n before_o lay_v down_o neither_o this_o absurdity_n of_o lordship_n over_o the_o officer_n nor_o any_o other_o that_o be_v instance_a in_o under_o this_o reason_n do_v at_o all_o follow_v and_o they_o may_v be_v as_o strong_o urge_v against_o the_o presbytery_n class_n synod_n catholic_n church_n or_o any_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n that_o can_v be_v name_v and_o the_o objection_n viz._n that_o god_n will_v have_v the_o church_n choose_v officer_n to_o execute_v the_o power_n commit_v to_o she_o be_v so_o answer_v in_o the_o same_o page_n as_o will_v serve_v we_o as_o well_o as_o you_o viz._n god_n will_v have_v she_o elect_a officer_n of_o his_o designment_n that_o be_v such_o as_o the_o rule_n direct_v she_o to_o choose_v to_o do_v his_o work_n according_a to_o that_o power_n which_o he_o have_v give_v they_o and_o by_o his_o direction_n and_o then_o they_o be_v god_n servant_n and_o not_o the_o church_n and_o receive_v that_o charge_n and_o function_n immediate_o from_o god_n and_o not_o from_o the_o people_n we_o mean_v no_o otherwise_o then_o by_o that_o outward_a call_v instrumental_o apply_v that_o office_n unto_o they_o and_o in_o this_o sense_n we_o close_o with_o you_o herein_o and_o indeed_o this_o power_n of_o elect_a officer_n do_v not_o ever_o include_v authority_n over_o they_o who_o they_o choose_v but_o rather_o willing_a subjection_n unto_o they_o and_o set_v they_o up_o to_o rule_v as_o when_o a_o woman_n choose_v a_o husband_n she_o make_v he_o her_o husband_n in_o a_o sort_n but_o withal_o her_o head_n and_o ruler_n so_o when_o a_o people_n choose_v a_o major_n etc._n etc._n answ_n four_o if_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v first_o and_o immediate_o to_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a what_o reason_n can_v be_v allege_v why_o in_o defect_n of_o officer_n the_o church_n may_v not_o rule_v feed_v bind_v loose_a preach_v and_o administer_v sacrament_n or_o if_o any_o fail_v in_o office_n why_o she_o may_v not_o supply_v that_o want_n by_o her_o power_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n do_v contain_v both_o authority_n and_o exercise_n power_n be_v give_v that_o it_o may_v be_v exercise_v as_o it_o be_v vouchsafe_v but_o the_o church_n can_v exercise_v these_o act_n of_o rule_n ergo._fw-la answ_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o church_n have_v not_o receive_v some_o of_o the_o key_n formal_o but_o only_o virtual_o and_o as_o be_v say_v out_o of_o parker_n not_o as_o a_o gift_n absolute_a but_o conditional_a that_o it_o may_v be_v communicate_v to_o the_o officer_n such_o power_n as_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n have_v receive_v formal_o she_o may_v and_o do_v exercise_v as_o a_o power_n of_o choose_v officer_n a_o power_n of_o judge_v in_o censure_n 1_o cor._n 5.12_o and_o the_o like_a the_o power_n of_o preach_v proper_o so_o call_v &_o dispense_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v act_n of_o authority_n the_o church_n have_v they_o only_o virtual_o and_o therefore_o must_v choose_v officer_n to_o who_o christ_n her_o lord_n have_v give_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n a_o corporation_n that_o by_o patent_n from_o the_o king_n have_v many_o privilege_n the_o power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o body_n incorporate_v and_o so_o it_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o it_o yet_o many_o act_n can_v be_v put_v forth_o but_o by_o officer_n due_o choose_v and_o so_o here_o reply_n for_o these_o reason_n not_o to_o insist_v on_o any_o more_o we_o judge_v the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a not_o to_o be_v the_o immediate_a receptacle_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o so_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n not_o to_o belong_v unto_o they_o answ_n by_o this_o conclusion_n it_o appear_v that_o how_o ever_o the_o author_n begin_v profess_o against_o we_o as_o separatist_n in_o this_o point_n yet_o he_o follow_v the_o cause_n against_o mr._n parker_n with_o who_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v friend_n second_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n may_v belong_v to_o the_o church_n or_o community_n in_o respect_n of_o a_o fraternal_a power_n of_o judge_v though_o official_a authority_n be_v not_o formal_o give_v to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o the_o officer_n reply_n if_o consent_n of_o church_n be_v ask_v in_o this_o point_n to_o omit_v other_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n speak_v full_o and_o express_o for_o we_o in_o the_o second_o book_n of_o discip_n cap._n 1._o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v take_v for_o they_o that_o exercise_v spiritual_a function_n in_o the_o congregation_n of_o they_o that_o profess_v the_o truth_n have_v a_o certain_a power_n grant_v of_o god_n according_a to_o which_o it_o use_v a_o proper_a jurisdiction_n etc._n etc._n beza_n de_fw-fr presb._n pag._n 60._o helu._n confess_v cap._n 18._o belgic_a etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o consent_n of_o the_o learned_a godly_a and_o zealous_a reformer_n be_v ask_v a_o cloud_n of_o witness_n may_v be_v produce_v that_o hold_v the_o church_n the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n as_o fulke_n whitaker_n parker_n peter_n martyr_n musculus_fw-la and_o other_o beside_o many_o of_o the_o ancient_a divine_n and_o counsel_n gerson_n and_o the_o parisian_a divine_v well_o know_v to_o the_o learned_a concern_v quotation_n of_o the_o scottish_a discipline_n the_o first_o word_n lie_v so_o weak_a a_o foundation_n as_o leave_v the_o build_n ready_a to_o fall_v in_o these_o word_n the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v take_v for_o they_o that_o exercise_v spiritual_a function_n have_v a_o certain_a power_n etc._n etc._n but_o where_o be_v the_o church_n so_o take_v not_o in_o all_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o can_v be_v prove_v with_o any_o solid_a reason_n notwithstanding_o all_o wrestle_a of_o man_n to_o find_v it_o out_o but_o general_o for_o the_o company_n of_o the_o faithful_a either_o the_o universal_a or_o particular_a church_n and_o this_o sometime_o consider_v with_o her_o officer_n and_o divers_a time_n as_o distinguish_v from_o they_o as_o act_n 14.23_o and_o 20.13.28_o jam._n 5.14_o revel_v 2.1.8.12_o etc._n etc._n but_o never_o contra_fw-la for_o the_o officer_n distinguish_v from_o the_o church_n or_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o plea_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o be_v give_v immediate_o to_o the_o officer_n be_v in_o and_o under_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n it_o will_v fall_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o faithful_a if_o the_o scripture_n may_v judge_v indeed_o among_o the_o papist_n and_o so_o the_o prelate_n the_o clergy_n have_v long_o get_v and_o hold_v possession_n of_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o testament_n of_o christ_n will_v not_o bear_v this_o foundation_n but_o we_o will_v not_o trouble_v the_o reader_n far_o about_o humane_a testimony_n chap._n xv._n position_n 6._o that_o none_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v member_n but_o they_o must_v promise_v not_o to_o depart_v or_o remove_v unless_o the_o congregation_n will_v give_v leave_n reply_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n abrupt_o to_o break_v away_o when_o and_o whither_o they_o please_v and_o forsake_v fellowship_n another_o thing_n not_o to_o depart_v or_o remove_v habitation_n unless_o the_o congregation_n will_v give_v leave_n also_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n mutual_o to_o compound_v and_o agree_v not_o to_o depart_v from_o each_o other_o without_o consent_n and_o approbation_n and_o other_o to_o require_v a_o promise_n of_o all_o that_o be_v admit_v into_o society_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o depart_v without_o the_o church_n allowance_n if_o such_o a_o promise_n be_v require_v of_o all_o member_n to_o be_v admit_v we_o can_v discern_v upon_o what_o ground_n your_o practice_n be_v warrant_v answ_n we_o be_v still_o enforce_v to_o clear_v our_o answer_n from_o mistake_n for_o it_o seem_v the_o answer_n leave_v it_o doubtful_a whether_o we_o do_v not_o hold_v the_o position_n affirmative_o and_o in_o practice_n require_v such_o a_o promise_n as_o a_o part_n of_o our_o church_n covenant_n of_o all_o that_o be_v admit_v and_o therefore_o to_o clear_v the_o case_n more_o full_o we_o shall_v first_o mind_v the_o reader_n with_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o answer_n and_o then_o add_v what_o be_v needful_a to_o take_v away_o the_o scruple_n and_o first_o the_o answer_n say_v that_o we_o judge_v it_o expedient_a and_o most_o according_a to_o rule_v that_o brethren_n shall_v not_o forsake_v fellowship_n etc._n etc._n but_o in_o removall_n approve_v themselves_o etc._n etc._n now_o this_o be_v far_o short_a of_o what_o the_o position_n affirm_v for_o first_o that_o none_o
profess_v their_o faith_n again_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v build_v upon_o this_o rock_n matth._n 16.16_o 18._o viz._n profession_n of_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n and_o last_o if_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o necessity_n for_o such_o a_o profession_n yet_o if_o this_o be_v desire_v of_o the_o people_n of_o god_n for_o the_o increase_n of_o their_o own_o joy_n to_o see_v god_n glorify_v and_o christ_n name_n profess_v and_o his_o virtue_n hold_v forth_o and_o for_o the_o increase_n of_o their_o love_n to_o those_o that_o join_v with_o they_o why_o shall_v it_o not_o be_v do_v before_o saint_n which_o shall_v be_v do_v before_o persecutor_n 1_o pet._n 3.15_o what_o be_v now_o say_v we_o think_v sufficient_a to_o undermine_v what_o be_v oppose_v herein_o by_o other_o and_o may_v easy_o give_v answer_n to_o the_o three_o argument_n of_o the_o learned_a authourâ—…_n from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n john_n baptist_n and_o the_o apostle_n and_o so_o clear_o up_o our_o practice_n and_o judgement_n to_o the_o world_n from_o the_o aspersion_n of_o our_o rigidum_fw-la examen_fw-la for_o which_o we_o be_v by_o some_o condemn_v but_o for_o further_a clear_v we_o shall_v answer_v to_o the_o particular_n now_o to_o your_o reason_n more_o particular_o against_o this_o from_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o the_o manner_n of_o enter_v and_o renew_v covenant_n then_o answ_n we_o answer_v first_o when_o as_o you_o say_v they_o profess_v the_o covenant_n promise_v to_o take_v god_n for_o their_o god_n to_o keep_v the_o word_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o do_v they_o to_o seek_v the_o lord_n with_o all_o their_o heart_n to_o walk_v before_o he_o in_o truth_n and_o uprightnes_n this_o imply_v a_o profession_n of_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n second_o they_o do_v not_o immediate_o enter_v into_o covenant_n but_o the_o lord_n be_v long_o before_o prepare_v they_o for_o it_o for_o they_o be_v humble_v much_o in_o egypt_n in_o so_o much_o as_o their_o sigh_n come_v up_o to_o god_n exod._n 2.23_o 24_o 25._o they_o have_v see_v the_o glory_n of_o god_n for_o their_o good_a against_o pharaoh_n and_o all_o that_o land_n by_o many_o miracle_n they_o have_v god_n visible_a presence_n in_o the_o cloud_n be_v instruct_v by_o moses_n concern_v the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n make_v with_o they_o in_o abraham_n they_o be_v mighty_o deliver_v at_o the_o red_a sea_n so_o that_o they_o believe_v moses_n and_o fear_v the_o lord_n and_o sing_v his_o praise_n exod._n 14.31_o psalm_n 106.12_o they_o be_v also_o instruct_v again_o concern_v the_o covenant_n and_o be_v to_o sanctify_v themselves_o three_o day_n legal_o which_o be_v for_o spiritual_a end_n and_o of_o spiritual_a use_n exod._n 19.10_o and_o thus_o be_v prepare_v as_o fit_a matter_n for_o covenant_n they_o then_o enter_v thereinto_o and_o they_o be_v all_o of_o they_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v thus_o external_o and_o ecclesiastical_o holy_a though_o many_o be_v internal_o stiffnecked_a blind_a and_o profane_a and_o for_o our_o part_n we_o desire_v no_o more_o than_o such_o a_o preparation_n in_o some_o work_n of_o grace_n if_o appear_v though_o not_o indeed_o real_a as_o may_v make_v way_n for_o church_n covenant_n among_o a_o people_n now_o as_o we_o see_v be_v then_o reply_n when_o john_n baptist_n begin_v to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n and_o gather_v a_o new_a people_n for_o christ_n he_o admit_v none_o but_o upon_o confession_n of_o their_o sin_n but_o we_o read_v of_o no_o question_n that_o he_o put_v forth_o to_o they_o to_o discover_v the_o work_n of_o grace_n in_o their_o soul_n or_o repel_v any_o upon_o that_o pretence_n that_o voluntary_o submit_v themselves_o answ_n though_o the_o scripture_n record_v such_o thing_n very_o brief_o else_o the_o world_n will_v not_o have_v contain_v the_o book_n that_o must_v have_v be_v write_v as_o john_n speak_v yet_o he_o that_o advise_o consider_v the_o case_n may_v see_v the_o profession_n of_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n in_o all_o that_o be_v receive_v by_o john_n to_o his_o baptism_n first_o john_n be_v send_v with_o the_o spirit_n and_o power_n of_o elias_n to_o turn_v the_o heart_n of_o the_o father_n etc._n etc._n to_o cast_v down_o every_o high_a hill_n etc._n etc._n second_o his_o baptism_n be_v call_v the_o baptism_n of_o repentance_n for_o the_o remission_n of_o sin_n mark_n 1.4_o three_o confession_n of_o sin_n be_v ever_o put_v for_o true_a repentance_n when_o there_o be_v a_o promise_n of_o pardon_n make_v to_o it_o prov._n 28_o 1â—…_n 1_o john_n 1.9_o and_o therefore_o when_o he_o require_v confession_n of_o sin_n be_v it_o without_o remorse_n or_o sorrow_n for_o it_o be_v it_o not_o with_o profession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o messiah_n which_o he_o point_v unto_o joh._n 1.29_o and_o require_v with_o repentance_n act._n 19.4_o four_o do_v not_o he_o fall_v upon_o the_o pharisee_n with_o dreadful_a thunder_a of_o god_n judgement_n for_o come_v to_o his_o baptism_n without_o conversion_n of_o heart_n and_o fruit_n meet_v for_o repentance_n mat._n 3.7_o and_o this_o luke_n say_v he_o preach_v to_o the_o multitude_n luke_n 3.7_o and_o whether_o any_o be_v receive_v that_o embrace_v not_o that_o doctrine_n and_o show_v the_o same_o in_o their_o confession_n viz._n that_o their_o heart_n be_v humble_v and_o that_o the_o renounce_v their_o high_a thought_n of_o their_o privilege_n of_o the_o law_n etc._n etc._n and_o profess_a amendment_n &_o fruit_n meet_v for_o the_o same_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a for_o any_o to_o prove_v and_o thus_o much_o be_v evident_a on_o the_o contrary_a that_o pharesee_v &_o lawyer_n distinguish_v from_o the_o people_n and_o publican_n reject_v the_o counsel_n of_o god_n in_o not_o be_v baptize_v of_o he_o and_o what_o counsel_n but_o that_o wholesome_a doctrine_n of_o john_n luke_n 7.29_o 30_o lay_v all_o these_o together_o and_o let_v any_o who_o thought_n be_v not_o prepossess_v with_o prejudices_fw-la say_v whether_o this_o confession_n be_v not_o such_o a_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n which_o a_o discern_a charity_n ought_v to_o take_v for_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n reply_n â—…_n it_o appear_v many_o way_n that_o when_o the_o apostle_n plant_v church_n they_o make_v a_o covenant_n between_o god_n and_o the_o people_n who_o they_o receive_v but_o they_o receive_v man_n upon_o the_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o promise_v of_o amendment_n of_o life_n without_o strict_a inquiry_n what_o work_n of_o grace_n be_v wrought_v in_o the_o soul_n so_o in_o after_o age_n etc._n etc._n now_o the_o profession_n at_o first_o require_v of_o all_o that_o be_v receive_v to_o baptism_n be_v that_o they_o believe_v in_o the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n this_o be_v the_o confession_n of_o the_o enâ—…uch_n when_o he_o be_v baptize_v i_o believe_v that_o jesus_n christ_n be_v the_o son_n of_o god_n answ_n we_o can_v but_o observe_v how_o still_o the_o evidence_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o we_o prove_v in_o the_o three_o and_o four_o position_n break_v out_o at_o every_o turn_n when_o the_o heat_n of_o that_o disputation_n do_v not_o hinder_v for_o if_o the_o apostle_n plant_v church_n and_o make_v a_o covenant_n between_o god_n and_o the_o people_n when_o they_o baptize_v they_o as_o the_o proof_n for_o this_o act._n 2.38_o and_o 8.37_o and_o 19.17_o 18_o 19_o allege_v in_o the_o margin_n show_v than_o still_o it_o appear_v they_o admit_v man_n into_o plant_v church_n when_o they_o baptize_v they_o and_o the_o refore_o the_o apostle_n ordinary_a and_o first_o lead_v practice_n and_o example_n be_v for_o those_o position_n not_o against_o they_o 2_o you_o grant_v here_o that_o act_n 2._o and_o 8._o and_o 19_o there_o be_v a_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o promise_n of_o amendment_n of_o life_n and_o so_o we_o must_v suppose_v though_o not_o express_v for_o how_o else_o can_v the_o apostle_n distinguish_v such_o as_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n from_o the_o mocker_n and_o other_o now_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o kind_n of_o profession_n this_o must_v be_v by_o the_o story_n itself_o the_o apostle_n peter_n in_o his_o doctrine_n press_v three_o thing_n 1._o conversion_n or_o repentance_n for_o their_o sin_n 2._o faith_n in_o christ_n in_o those_o word_n be_v baptize_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n verse_n 38._o 3._o with_o many_o other_o word_n he_o exhort_v they_o say_v save_v yourselves_o from_o this_o untoward_a generation_n that_o be_v this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o and_o substance_n of_o his_o exhortation_n which_o include_v a_o gather_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n now_o the_o text_n say_v in_o respect_n of_o the_o first_o that_o they_o be_v prick_v to_o the_o heart_n and_o cry_v out_o man_n and_o brethren_n what_o shall_v we_o do_v 2._o they_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n that_o be_v
a_o defence_n of_o the_o answer_n make_v unto_o the_o nine_o question_n or_o position_n send_v from_o new-england_n against_o the_o reply_n thereto_o by_o that_o reverend_a servant_n of_o christ_n mr._n john_n ball_n entitle_v a_o trial_n of_o the_o new_a churchway_n in_o new-england_n and_o in_o old_a wherein_o beside_o a_o more_o full_a open_n of_o sundry_a particular_n concern_v liturgy_n power_n of_o the_o key_n matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n be_v more_o large_o handle_v that_o controversy_n concern_v the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n tend_v to_o clear_v up_o the_o old-way_n of_o christ_n in_o new-england_n church_n by_o john_n allin_n pastor_n of_o dedham_n tho._n shepard_n pastor_n of_o cambridge_n in_o new-england_n veritas_fw-la nihil_fw-la crubescit_fw-la praeterquam_fw-la abscondi_fw-la tertul._n sua_fw-la silentia_fw-la amat_fw-la spiritus_fw-la per_fw-la quae_fw-la nobis_fw-la illabitur_fw-la seque_fw-la insinuat_fw-la cupidis_fw-la non_fw-la gloriae_fw-la sed_fw-la cognoscendae_fw-la veritatis_fw-la melanct._n let_v the_o blessing_n come_v upon_o the_o head_n of_o joseph_n and_o upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o head_n of_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o his_o brethren_n deut._n 33.16_o london_n print_v by_o r._n cotes_n for_o andrew_n crook_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o the_o green_a dragon_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1648._o the_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n it_o be_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n before_o pilate_n when_o he_o question_v with_o he_o about_o his_o kingdom_n john_n 18.37_o that_o for_o this_o cause_n he_o be_v bear_v and_o come_v into_o the_o world_n to_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o truth_n many_o truth_n about_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n have_v he_o impart_v to_o we_o if_o therefore_o we_o be_v bear_v into_o the_o world_n or_o send_v into_o this_o wilderness_n to_o bear_v witness_n to_o his_o truth_n it_o be_v unto_o we_o reward_v sufficient_a that_o we_o shall_v be_v witness_n thereunto_o even_o to_o the_o utmost_a part_n of_o the_o earth_n we_o confess_v we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a in_o this_o service_n of_o christ_n not_o have_v to_o this_o day_n set_v forth_o a_o unanimous_a confession_n of_o that_o form_n of_o wholesome_a word_n which_o be_v preach_v receive_v and_o profess_v in_o these_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o which_o we_o be_v not_o unmindful_a of_o though_o our_o distance_n and_o other_o difficulty_n may_v delay_v the_o opportunity_n but_o this_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o profess_v in_o general_a that_o so_o far_o as_o we_o know_v there_o be_v the_o same_o bless_a spirit_n of_o truth_n breathe_v in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o country_n the_o same_o faith_n embrace_v and_o profess_v in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v general_o receive_v as_o the_o orthodox_n doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n and_o particular_o by_o our_o godly_a learned_a brethren_n of_o england_n and_o scotland_n and_o though_o error_n have_v spring_v up_o among_o we_o and_o some_o be_v go_v out_o from_o we_o that_o we_o fear_v be_v not_o of_o we_o yet_o we_o have_v bear_v witness_n against_o they_o and_o by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n by_o the_o breath_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o mouth_n of_o his_o servant_n they_o have_v be_v blast_v neither_o do_v we_o understand_v that_o these_o church_n be_v accuse_v of_o any_o error_n about_o the_o save_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o therefore_o we_o think_v ourselves_o not_o so_o much_o call_v of_o god_n to_o such_o a_o confession_n at_o present_a as_o to_o clear_v up_o to_o the_o world_n those_o truth_n we_o profess_v about_o the_o kingdom_n and_o government_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o church_n which_o be_v the_o great_a work_n of_o this_o age_n and_o of_o this_o nick_n of_o time_n and_o yet_o here_o also_o we_o fear_v that_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slack_a for_o though_o it_o be_v say_v we_o be_v the_o volunteer_n such_o as_o cry_v up_o this_o way_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o it_o seem_v we_o be_v apprehend_v to_o be_v one_o cause_n of_o these_o present_a difference_n yet_o if_o thing_n be_v well_o weigh_v we_o may_v seem_v rather_o to_o be_v far_o behind_o in_o the_o duty_n that_o lie_v upon_o we_o indeed_o some_o brief_a answer_n send_v over_o to_o some_o particular_a person_n to_o satisfy_v brethren_n what_o our_o practice_n be_v with_o some_o brief_a touch_n of_o our_o reason_n rather_o then_o to_o discâ—…sse_v those_o point_n have_v be_v print_v by_o some_o without_o our_o knowledge_n or_o assent_v upon_o what_o ground_n they_o best_o know_v and_o some_o short_a treatise_n by_o some_o reverend_a brethren_n have_v be_v publish_v to_o declare_v their_o affectionate_a desire_n of_o the_o unanimous_a endeavour_n of_o all_o our_o dear_a brethren_n for_o a_o general_a and_o holy_a reformation_n but_o what_o have_v be_v say_v or_o do_v that_o either_o may_v just_o offend_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a provoke_v their_o spirit_n disunite_v their_o affection_n or_o hinder_v a_o godly_a reformation_n yea_o we_o have_v be_v too_o slow_a to_o clear_v our_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n from_o the_o many_o objection_n harsh_a interpretation_n and_o manifold_a crimination_n cast_v upon_o the_o same_o wherein_o we_o fear_v our_o loathness_n to_o intermeddle_v in_o these_o controversy_n for_o fear_n of_o make_v the_o breach_n wide_o among_o brethren_n and_o our_o desire_n rather_o to_o attend_v what_o light_n we_o may_v receive_v from_o other_o in_o these_o point_n wherein_o we_o profess_v ourselves_o seeker_n after_o the_o truth_n have_v make_v we_o guilty_a of_o neglect_n in_o this_o our_o duty_n but_o now_o we_o see_v ourselves_o press_v hereto_o by_o a_o necessity_n of_o justify_v our_o way_n against_o the_o many_o aspersion_n cast_v upon_o they_o as_o well_o as_o against_o the_o reason_n use_v against_o they_o for_o we_o perceive_v by_o the_o first_o letter_n of_o our_o brethren_n how_o the_o withdraw_a of_o christian_n from_o the_o liturgy_n be_v impute_v to_o we_o and_o by_o this_o reply_n both_o in_o the_o epistle_n and_o divers_a passage_n we_o can_v but_o see_v what_o apprehension_n be_v raise_v of_o we_o yea_o many_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o we_o have_v say_v nothing_o yet_o our_o very_a act_n in_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o our_o dear_a native_a country_n and_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n there_o together_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o church_n think_v to_o be_v so_o different_a from_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v be_v not_o only_o a_o great_a weaken_n to_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o godly_a that_o have_v stand_v by_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n but_o also_o have_v cause_v great_a disturbance_n to_o the_o reformation_n in_o hand_n to_o which_o much_o may_v be_v say_v but_o that_o we_o shall_v exceed_v the_o bound_n of_o a_o epistle_n yet_o let_v we_o entreat_v all_o the_o godly_a wise_a to_o consider_v and_o look_v back_o upon_o the-season_n of_o this_o great_a enterprise_n undertake_v by_o we_o and_o the_o manner_n of_o our_o proceed_n in_o it_o with_o the_o admirable_a work_n of_o god_n providence_n first_o and_o last_o about_o it_o and_o we_o think_v though_o we_o be_v silent_a they_o may_v easy_o satisfy_v themselves_o whether_o this_o be_v of_o god_n or_o man_n a_o sinful_a neglect_n of_o the_o cause_n of_o christ_n or_o a_o manifest_a attestation_n to_o the_o truth_n by_o open_a profession_n against_o corruption_n of_o worship_n in_o use_n and_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o confirm_v by_o no_o small_a degree_n of_o suffering_n for_o the_o same_o for_o be_v it_o not_o a_o time_n when_o humane_a worship_n and_o invention_n be_v grow_v to_o such_o a_o intolerable_a height_n that_o the_o conscience_n of_o god_n saint_n and_o servant_n enlighten_v in_o the_o truth_n can_v no_o long_o bear_v they_o be_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o tyrannical_a prelate_n so_o great_a that_o like_o a_o strong_a current_n carry_v all_o down_o stream_n before_o it_o what_o ever_o be_v from_o the_o law_n or_o otherwise_o set_v in_o their_o way_n do_v not_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n general_o fail_v they_o where_o be_v the_o people_n to_o be_v find_v that_o will_v cleave_v to_o their_o godly_a minister_n in_o their_o suffering_n but_o rather_o think_v it_o their_o discretion_n to_o provide_v for_o their_o own_o quiet_a and_o safety_n yea_o when_o some_o free_o in_o zeal_n of_o the_o truth_n preach_v or_o profess_v against_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o time_n do_v not_o some_o take_v offence_n at_o it_o judge_v it_o rashness_n and_o to_o be_v against_o all_o rule_n of_o discretion_n who_o since_o be_v ready_a to_o censure_v we_o for_o desert_v the_o cause_n many_o then_o think_v it_o be_v a_o evil_a time_n the_o prudent_a shall_v hold_v their_o peace_n and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v this_o be_v not_o
answer_v and_o this_o we_o do_v the_o rather_o for_o our_o reason_n mention_v in_o our_o letter_n because_o though_o all_o of_o we_o can_v not_o concur_v to_o condemn_v all_o set_a form_n as_o unlawful_a yet_o we_o can_v in_o this_o viz._n that_o though_o some_o set_v form_n may_v be_v lawful_a yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o this_o of_o the_o english_a liturgy_n be_v therefore_o to_o remove_v all_o obscurity_n and_o break_v all_o snare_n and_o resolve_v the_o question_n in_o the_o true_a intent_n of_o it_o we_o be_v force_v to_o distinguish_v of_o form_n and_o so_o touch_v the_o true_a helena_n of_o this_o controversy_n and_o therefore_o if_o any_o shall_v narrow_o observe_v mr._n ball_n his_o large_a defence_n of_o set_a form_n in_o general_a they_o shall_v find_v those_o wing_n spread_v forth_o in_o a_o very_a great_a breadth_n to_o give_v some_o shelter_n and_o warmth_n to_o that_o particular_a liturgy_n then_o languish_v and_o hasten_v through_o age_n and_o feebleness_n towards_o its_o last_o end_n reply_n it_o be_v true_a people_n separate_v from_o our_o liturgy_n because_o stint_v not_o because_o this_o or_o that_o or_o we_o in_o particular_a answ_n if_o because_o its_o stint_a then_o because_o you_o for_o we_o know_v none_o proper_o such_o but_o you_o and_o it_o may_v well_o be_v one_o offence_n to_o all_o godly_a conscience_n that_o you_o be_v so_o impose_v and_o stint_v as_o they_o be_v though_o it_o be_v hardly_o credible_a to_o we_o so_o far_o as_o our_o observation_n reach_v that_o the_o main_a cause_n of_o the_o godly_a withdraw_n from_o your_o liturgy_n shall_v be_v the_o stint_n of_o it_o when_o so_o many_o corruption_n in_o matter_n and_o form_n have_v be_v object_v against_o it_o by_o the_o best_a godly_a reformer_n and_o see_v the_o same_o person_n will_v join_v with_o prayer_n of_o godly_a preacher_n though_o they_o use_v the_o same_o form_n of_o prayer_n usual_o and_o so_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n free_o stint_v themselves_o thereto_o though_o not_o proper_o in_o such_o sense_n as_o your_o liturgy_n be_v stint_v reply_n but_o say_v you_o such_o set_a form_n use_v by_o preacher_n be_v dislike_v also_o and_o your_o reason_n especial_o the_o two_o last_o why_o you_o admit_v not_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n conclude_v against_o both_o in_o our_o understanding_n answ_n we_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o may_v dislike_v the_o constant_a use_n of_o such_o form_n especial_o when_o studious_o frame_v with_o elegancy_n of_o phrase_n and_o as_o the_o manner_n of_o some_o be_v but_o do_v any_o we_o now_o speak_v of_o condemn_v all_o use_n thereof_o or_o withdraw_v from_o they_o that_o use_v they_o which_o be_v now_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n for_o our_o part_n we_o neither_o know_v such_o man_n or_o if_o we_o do_v we_o shall_v condemn_v such_o mind_n as_o for_o our_o reason_n in_o general_a or_o the_o two_o last_o you_o mention_n in_o particular_a it_o pass_v our_o understanding_n to_o conceive_v how_o any_o such_o inference_n can_v be_v make_v if_o the_o reply_n have_v form_v the_o inference_n from_o our_o argument_n it_o may_v be_v we_o shall_v have_v see_v more_o by_o the_o help_n of_o such_o spectacle_n but_o pass_v over_o what_o we_o say_v to_o the_o position_n as_o we_o interpret_v it_o you_o think_v fit_a to_o advertise_v we_o of_o some_o thing_n which_o be_v six_o reply_n advert_v 1._o your_o reason_n why_o you_o accept_v not_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v ambiguous_o propound_v and_o so_o that_o such_o as_o look_v at_o stint_a liturgy_n as_o image_n forbid_a command_n 2._o may_v easy_o draw_v your_o word_n to_o their_o meaning_n answ_n if_o our_o reason_n themselves_o be_v sound_n and_o unanswered_a by_o you_o contain_v any_o thing_n that_o may_v be_v draw_v to_o such_o a_o position_n that_o can_v arise_v from_o the_o ambiguousnesse_n of_o word_n which_o be_v plain_a but_o from_o their_o abuse_n who_o misapply_v they_o reply_n advert_v 2._o the_o reason_n you_o bring_v against_o a_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n do_v hold_v as_o strong_a against_o a_o set_a form_n of_o catechism_n confession_n and_o profession_n of_o faith_n blessing_n baptise_v and_o sing_v of_o psalm_n answ_n 1_o concern_v form_n of_o catechism_n and_o confession_n of_o faith_n if_o religious_o and_o perspicuous_o frame_v we_o account_v they_o of_o singular_a use_n though_o abuse_v by_o man_n nor_o without_o some_o sacred_a allowance_n yet_o from_o hence_o to_o infer_v the_o like_a use_n of_o set_a form_n of_o prayer_n neither_o our_o reason_n nor_o any_o other_o will_v in_o force_n for_o catechism_n and_o confession_n as_o well_o as_o psalm_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n require_v in_o some_o sense_n a_o set_v and_o limit_a form_n but_o public_a prayer_n though_o they_o may_v admit_v of_o a_o set_n and_o comely_a order_n in_o the_o general_a to_o prevent_v error_n yet_o of_o their_o own_o nature_n they_o require_v no_o set_a form_n for_o god_n give_v we_o no_o new_a matter_n or_o doctrine_n daily_o to_o be_v believe_v but_o he_o give_v new_a matter_n of_o new_a affection_n in_o prayer_n daily_o 2_o if_o by_o set_v form_n of_o catechism_n and_o confession_n be_v mean_v according_a to_o the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n stint_v form_n like_o stint_a liturgy_n i._n e._n beyond_o or_o short_a of_o which_o minister_n may_v not_o teach_v or_o christian_n believe_v and_o profess_v than_o we_o shall_v say_v the_o same_o of_o these_o as_o we_o do_v of_o stint_a form_n of_o prayer_n we_o confess_v there_o be_v danger_n in_o cast_v by_o all_o form_n of_o confession_n and_o catechism_n lest_o through_o the_o instability_n of_o ungrounded_a and_o heady_a man_n pretend_v new_a light_n or_o search_v after_o further_a light_n the_o church_n adhere_v to_o nothing_o and_o their_o faith_n as_o the_o learned_a leyden_n professor_n term_v it_o become_v fides_fw-la horaria_fw-la or_o menstrua_fw-la the_o faith_n of_o a_o hour_n or_o month_n and_o then_o cast_v it_o off_o the_o next_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n there_o be_v danger_n that_o by_o impose_v such_o confession_n too_o far_o that_o which_o be_v indeed_o further_o light_n be_v suppress_v we_o therefore_o think_v it_o useful_a and_o needful_a to_o pave_v out_o such_o high_a way_n of_o catechism_n and_o confession_n so_o as_o the_o subject_n of_o christ_n jesus_n our_o king_n and_o lawgiver_n may_v walk_v therein_o without_o shackle_n reserve_v liberty_n for_o further_a future_a light_n in_o point_n less_o clear_a yet_o stand_v in_o a_o readiness_n always_o to_o confess_v and_o hold_v fast_o the_o present_a truth_n which_o appear_v most_o clear_a 3_o concern_v form_n of_o blessing_n baptise_v sing_v scripture_n psalm_n there_o be_v a_o far_o differ_v reason_n from_o this_o case_n for_o the_o lord_n himself_o have_v leave_v we_o form_n in_o these_o case_n not_o only_o for_o instruction_n but_o allow_v the_o use_n of_o the_o same_o as_o numb_a 6.23_o etc._n etc._n luke_n 10.5_o matth._n 28.20_o 2_o chron._n 29.30_o and_o therefore_o such_o may_v be_v use_v as_o he_o have_v leave_v yet_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o impose_v some_o of_o these_o at_o least_o to_o be_v use_v always_o and_o only_o in_o his_o church_n much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v any_o man_n to_o impose_v their_o own_o form_n upon_o his_o church_n or_o conform_v to_o such_o as_o be_v tyrannous_o impose_v reply_n three_o advert_v we_o have_v not_o call_v you_o at_o this_o time_n to_o witness_v for_o or_o against_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o common-prayer-book_n this_o you_o fall_v upon_o by_o strain_v the_o sense_n of_o our_o demand_n answ_n we_o have_v speak_v to_o this_o before_o and_o we_o think_v whatsoever_o your_o intent_n and_o desire_n be_v yet_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o the_o case_n itself_o give_v we_o a_o just_a call_v to_o testify_v against_o it_o especial_o see_v the_o corruption_n then_o increase_v in_o england_n and_o the_o imposition_n be_v more_o rigid_a and_o violent_a reply_n the_o reason_n you_o bring_v against_o the_o communion-booke_n we_o can_v approve_v they_o all_o the_o exception_n against_o it_o we_o know_v but_o to_o esteem_v the_o whole_a for_o some_o corruption_n find_v therein_o a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n that_o we_o have_v not_o learned_a answ_n the_o answer_n call_v it_o not_o a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n for_o some_o corruption_n only_o find_v in_o it_o though_o the_o corruption_n in_o matter_n and_o manner_n be_v object_v as_o the_o first_o reason_n why_o we_o use_v it_o not_o but_o be_v never_o command_v of_o god_n great_o abuse_v unto_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n and_o of_o no_o necessary_a use_n the_o same_o that_o be_v in_o popery_n for_o substance_n which_o be_v the_o usual_a argument_n for_o abolish_n image_n ceremony_n and_o all_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n and_o we_o marvel_v how_o any_o
the_o answer_n will_v be_v very_o imperfect_a and_o impertinent_a and_o just_a so_o it_o be_v here_o in_o the_o frame_n of_o the_o reason_n though_o the_o corruption_n in_o that_o service_n and_o this_o be_v not_o alike_o we_o grant_v but_o before_o we_o answer_v to_o the_o second_o part_n of_o your_o dis-junction_a let_v we_o consider_v a_o little_a here_o once_o for_o all_o the_o act_n of_o the_o people_n in_o join_v with_o the_o read_n of_o this_o liturgy_n or_o so_o much_o of_o it_o as_o be_v read_v usual_o by_o such_o idol-priest_n first_o concern_v the_o liturgy_n itself_o if_o you_o respect_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n or_o manner_n of_o it_o it_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a to_o rip_v up_o what_o for_o matter_n have_v be_v object_v by_o the_o godly_a reformer_n consider_v but_o two_o thing_n object_v strong_o by_o mr._n cartwright_n against_o the_o form_n or_o manner_n of_o it_o first_o that_o it_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o popish_a massebook_n concern_v which_o he_o affirm_v that_o although_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o unlawful_a or_o against_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o say_v he_o i_o wish_v there_o be_v not_o yet_o no_o word_n of_o god_n no_o reason_n nor_o example_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n jewish_n or_o christian_a will_v permit_v we_o to_o use_v the_o same_o form_n and_o ceremony_n viz._n with_o papist_n be_v neither_o command_v of_o god_n nor_o such_o as_o there_o may_v not_o be_v as_o good_a as_o they_o and_o rather_o better_a establish_v yea_o consider_v how_o near_o the_o papist_n live_v among_o we_o it_o be_v more_o safe_a to_o conform_v to_o the_o ceremony_n of_o the_o turk_n that_o be_v far_o off_o and_o this_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o form_n of_o liturgy_n as_o well_o as_o ceremony_n cartw._n reply_n to_o whitgift_n answer_v to_o the_o admonition_n to_o the_o parliament_n pag._n 131_o 132._o and_o although_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v light_n of_o this_o objection_n after_o page_n 15._o end_n yet_o in_o a_o like_a case_n when_o whitgift_n have_v say_v it_o be_v not_o material_a that_o dean_n canon_n come_v from_o the_o pope_n cartwright_n reply_v thus_o it_o be_v as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v it_o skill_v not_o if_o they_o come_v out_o of_o the_o bottomless_a pit_n for_o whatsoever_o come_v from_o the_o pope_n who_o be_v antichrist_n come_v first_o from_o the_o devil_n cartw._n reply_v pag._n 204._o second_o he_o object_v that_o absurd_a manner_n of_o chap_a and_o interrupt_v the_o prayer_n of_o which_o mr._n cartwright_n say_v that_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v make_v such_o a_o supplication_n to_o a_o prince_n he_o will_v think_v he_o to_o make_v his_o supplication_n before_o he_o know_v what_o to_o ask_v or_o that_o he_o have_v forget_v some_o piece_n of_o his_o suit_n 138._o or_o that_o he_o be_v distract_v in_o his_o understanding_n much_o more_o may_v be_v add_v but_o we_o have_v only_o touch_v this_o sore_a and_o in_o the_o word_n of_o that_o learned_a and_o zealous_a reformer_n that_o it_o may_v appear_v neither_o the_o opinion_n of_o that_o book_n nor_o the_o reason_n against_o it_o be_v so_o new_a or_o proper_a to_o the_o separatist_n as_o be_v pretend_v now_o what_o comfort_n can_v any_o godly_a conscience_n have_v to_o join_v in_o or_o conform_v unto_o such_o a_o form_n of_o worship_n as_o this_o be_v further_o consider_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o the_o book_n as_o we_o speak_v still_o of_o join_v in_o it_o who_o know_v not_o that_o such_o must_v subject_v their_o child_n to_o that_o gross_a idol_n of_o the_o cross_n and_o see_v and_o approve_v the_o pollution_n of_o god_n ordinance_n with_o the_o same_o and_o at_o the_o lord_n table_n join_v in_o that_o idolatrous_a gesture_n of_o kneel_v and_o therefore_o how_o the_o godly_a can_v join_v lawful_o in_o the_o whole_a or_o such_o part_n as_o those_o idol-priest_n dispense_v let_v all_o nonconformist_n judge_n and_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o superstitious_o precise_a such_o be_v in_o press_v all_o conformity_n to_o every_o gesture_n and_o ceremony_n prescribe_v in_o their_o book_n which_o they_o so_o idolize_v as_o they_o have_v good_a cause_n be_v that_o which_o maintain_v they_o second_o if_o we_o consider_v the_o imposition_n hereof_o by_o the_o prelate_n and_o late_a strict_a press_v thereof_o upon_o the_o people_n to_o be_v present_a and_o conform_v full_o to_o it_o as_o well_o as_o upon_o minister_n to_o use_v it_o the_o very_a yield_v of_o conformity_n thereto_o do_v miserable_o cast_v away_o the_o liberty_n purchase_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n enthral_v the_o church_n to_o antichrist_n and_o lift_v up_o the_o power_n of_o antichrist_n in_o his_o tyrannous_a usurpation_n upon_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n three_o we_o may_v add_v the_o dangerous_a consequence_n and_o scandal_n that_o follow_v from_o admit_v this_o liturgy_n which_o be_v touch_v in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o position_n we_o here_o pass_v over_o these_o thing_n consider_v it_o appear_v not_o only_o that_o there_o be_v need_v to_o disprove_v the_o first_o part_n of_o your_o disjunction_n which_o you_o decline_v in_o state_v the_o question_n but_o also_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o position_n itself_o be_v confirm_v now_o let_v we_o consider_v your_o proof_n of_o the_o second_o part_n of_o your_o disjunction_n which_o be_v thus_o reply_v if_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o minister_n than_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v with_o such_o on_o one_o in_o any_o ordinance_n of_o god_n for_o if_o the_o minister_n make_v it_o unlawful_a than_o all_o communion_n in_o any_o part_n of_o god_n worship_n with_o such_o minister_n be_v unlawful_a and_o so_o the_o church_n in_o all_o age_n of_o the_o world_n the_o prophet_n our_o saviour_n christ_n the_o apostle_n and_o the_o faithful_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 〈◊〉_d in_o hold_v communion_n with_o such_o wheâ—â—_n the_o priest_n be_v dumb_a dog_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o never_o read_v that_o the_o prophet_n our_o saviour_n christ_n the_o apostle_n do_v ever_o forbear_v themselves_o or_o warn_v the_o faithful_a not_o to_o communicate_v with_o such_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n our_o saviour_n charge_v the_o disciple_n to_o beware_v of_o the_o leaven_n of_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisea_n but_o never_o forbid_v they_o to_o communicate_v with_o they_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n answ_n to_o this_o we_o answer_v first_o that_o if_o you_o speak_v to_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n of_o those_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a minister_n of_o england_n reader_n as_o they_o be_v call_v of_o the_o common-service_n we_o grant_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o communicate_v in_o a_o state_v way_n with_o they_o in_o any_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n proper_o ministerial_a in_o any_o act_n that_o private_a person_n may_v perform_v we_o may_v communicate_v with_o they_o but_o not_o in_o ministerial_a work_n as_o sacrament_n for_o although_o be_v impose_v on_o any_o church_n as_o minister_n and_o so_o receive_v by_o they_o their_o ministerial_a act_n be_v not_o a_o nullity_n yet_o if_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o such_o their_o act_n of_o receive_v they_o than_o the_o church_n sin_v in_o choose_v they_o or_o be_v impose_v in_o receive_v they_o and_o submit_v to_o their_o ministry_n be_v such_o as_o be_v utter_o contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o reject_v of_o he_o and_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n the_o godly_a sin_n in_o receive_v sacrament_n etc._n etc._n from_o they_o as_o minister_n of_o christ_n know_v they_o intrude_v into_o that_o office_n and_o have_v no_o authority_n by_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n so_o to_o do_v we_o may_v hear_v a_o private_a gift_a christian_a prophecy_n but_o if_o he_o intrude_v without_o a_o lawful_a call_n into_o the_o ministry_n we_o may_v not_o receive_v he_o nor_o approve_v of_o he_o therein_o cyprian_n speech_n be_v common_o note_v that_o plebs_fw-la maxim_n habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la vel_fw-la eligendi_fw-la dignos_fw-la sacerdotes_fw-la vel_fw-la indignos_fw-la recusandi_fw-la yet_o the_o occasion_n of_o it_o be_v not_o so_o general_o observe_v which_o be_v this_o plebs_fw-la obsequenâ—…_n praeceptis_fw-la dominicis_fw-la deum_fw-la meâ—…uens_fw-la à _fw-la peccatore_fw-la proposito_fw-la separare_fw-la se_fw-la debet_fw-la nec_fw-la se_fw-la ad_fw-la sacrilegia_fw-la sacerdotis_fw-la sacrificia_fw-la iniscere_fw-la cum_fw-la ipse_fw-la maxim_n habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la eligendi_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v the_o people_n observe_v divine_a precept_n and_o fear_v god_n aught_o to_o separate_v themselves_o from_o a_o wicked_a minister_n neither_o join_v themselves_o to_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o a_o sacrilegious_a priest_n see_v they_o chief_o have_v power_n of_o choose_v worthy_a minister_n and_o reject_v unworthy_a second_o we_o see_v no_o demonstrative_a argument_n that_o the_o priest_n and_o pharisee_n be_v whole_o unable_a for_o the_o work_n
will_v never_o meet_v to_o combine_v but_o they_o be_v only_o a_o visible_a number_n of_o saint_n we_o have_v be_v thus_o large_a in_o clear_v this_o scripture_n because_o we_o conceive_v the_o chief_a strength_n of_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n to_o lie_v in_o it_o and_o this_o be_v answer_v the_o light_n of_o it_o we_o hope_v will_v scatter_v the_o darkness_n that_o be_v bring_v upon_o divers_a other_o scripture_n which_o be_v draw_v to_o prove_v such_o a_o kind_n of_o catholic_n church_n as_o rom._n 12.4_o etc._n etc._n col._n 1.25_o 1_o tim._n 3_o 1â—…_n ephes_n 4.11_o in_o which_o last_o scripture_n we_o never_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o officer_n be_v give_v not_o for_o that_o particular_a church_n of_o ephesus_n only_o much_o less_o to_o such_o a_o diminutive_a congregation_n consist_v of_o 40_o 60_o or_o 100_o only_a as_o if_o we_o intend_v to_o iâ—…pawn_v all_o power_n in_o this_o or_o that_o congregational_a body_n but_o to_o a_o congregationall_a church_n consider_v as_o the_o genus_fw-la of_o all_o particular_a congregation_n of_o the_o world_n neither_o to_o this_o congregationall_a church_n only_o but_o to_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gather_v to_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n but_o do_v this_o argue_v one_o political_a body_n consist_v of_o all_o these_o for_o though_o veâ—…s_o 16._o the_o whole_a body_n be_v say_v to_o be_v compact_v yet_o that_o this_o shall_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o political_a not_o spiritual_a way_n of_o compact_v we_o confess_v with_o submission_n our_o weakness_n can_v apprehend_v the_o last_o scripture_n which_o we_o find_v cite_v that_o seem_v to_o look_v this_o way_n be_v 1_o pet._n 5.1_o feed_v the_o flock_n which_o be_v among_o you_o answ_n 1_o we_o answer_v it_o must_v necessary_o be_v understand_v distributive_o for_o the_o several_a flock_n in_o all_o those_o country_n to_o be_v feed_v by_o their_o particular_a elder_n not_o collective_o to_o be_v feed_v as_o one_o flock_n in_o common_a for_o the_o country_n be_v so_o many_o and_o large_a as_o it_o be_v impossible_a yea_o we_o have_v a_o clear_a parallel_n james_n 2.2_o where_o write_v to_o the_o jew_n of_o the_o twelve_o tribe_n scatter_v abroad_o yet_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o man_n come_v into_o their_o assembly_n which_o can_v be_v mean_v collective_o as_o if_o they_o have_v one_o assembly_n among_o they_o all_o but_o distributive_o of_o any_o assembly_n 2_o though_o they_o be_v call_v a_o flock_n not_o flock_n yet_o this_o as_o râ—…imes_o observe_v be_v not_o because_o it_o be_v one_o flock_n real_o in_o themselves_o but_o in_o some_o respect_n of_o reason_n which_o also_o he_o expound_v to_o be_v per_fw-la internam_fw-la we_o have_v rather_o say_v spiritualem_fw-la unionem_fw-la but_o not_o per_fw-la externam_fw-la combinationem_fw-la in_o respect_n of_o which_o spiritual_a union_n that_o be_v true_a which_o mr._n ball_n cit_v out_o of_o cyprian_a 7._o etsi_fw-la pastor_n multi_fw-la sumus_fw-la unam_fw-la tamen_fw-la gregâ—…m_fw-la pascimus_fw-la as_o also_o that_o there_o be_v episcopatus_fw-la unus_fw-la &_o ecclesia_fw-la una_fw-la in_o â—…oto_fw-la mundo_fw-la hence_o also_o may_v appear_v a_o answer_n to_o divers_a argument_n the_o chief_a whereof_o we_o shall_v run_v through_o objection_n 1_o if_o by_o baptism_n we_o be_v not_o admit_v into_o one_o particular_a church_n but_o into_o the_o whole_a catholic_n visible_a church_n 1_o cor._n 12.13_o then_o there_o be_v such_o a_o catholic_n church_n answ_n baptism_n admit_v we_o into_o the_o whole_a mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n whether_o visible_a or_o invisible_a of_o all_o age_n but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o catholic_n political_a body_n of_o which_o we_o speak_v for_o then_o every_o baptize_v person_n shall_v be_v a_o member_n of_o every_o particular_a church_n and_o have_v a_o oar_n in_o every_o boat_n in_o elect_a officer_n admit_v member_n censure_v offender_n etc._n etc._n which_o mr._n ball_n will_v not_o grant_v and_o indeed_o will_v bring_v in_o endless_a confusion_n into_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o no_o man_n can_v be_v a_o member_n of_o any_o combine_a society_n without_o their_o consent_n for_o otherwise_o so_o many_o may_v crowd_n into_o the_o church_n because_o baptize_v as_o shall_v overthrow_v the_o edification_n thereof_o and_o that_o against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o officer_n thereof_o objection_n 2_o when_o any_o scandalous_a person_n be_v deliver_v to_o satan_n he_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n for_o he_o can_v be_v cast_v out_o who_o be_v never_o within_o answ_n 1_o some_o answer_n that_o he_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o all_o only_o consequenter_fw-la by_o reason_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n neither_o do_v we_o see_v that_o this_o be_v take_v away_o by_o say_v that_o as_o when_o the_o left_a hand_n cut_v off_o a_o finger_n of_o the_o right_a hand_n it_o be_v not_o the_o left_a hand_n only_o that_o cut_v it_o off_o but_o the_o whole_a man_n deliberate_a reason_n and_o will_n consent_v for_o if_o this_o similitude_n will_v suit_v than_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n must_v be_v call_v to_o consult_v and_o consent_v antecedenter_n before_o a_o particular_a church_n can_v cut_v off_o any_o member_n which_o ordinary_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v attain_v 2_o but_o further_o according_a to_o our_o former_a principle_n lay_v down_o we_o say_v he_o that_o be_v just_o cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n he_o be_v moral_o excommunicate_v out_o of_o all_o but_o not_o political_o and_o formal_o for_o to_o excommunicate_v political_o and_o formal_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o a_o superior_a authority_n next_o under_o christ_n so_o that_o what_o be_v bind_v by_o they_o be_v bind_v in_o heaven_n in_o which_o act_n the_o minister_n do_v not_o only_o bind_v the_o person_n but_o also_o by_o virtue_n of_o his_o office_n charge_v the_o church_n not_o to_o have_v communion_n with_o he_o but_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o our_o brethren_n will_v say_v that_o one_o church_n put_v forth_o such_o a_o act_n of_o superior_a authority_n bind_v or_o charge_v all_o church_n politicè_fw-la and_o judicialitâ—…r_v not_o to_o have_v communion_n with_o he_o for_o so_o one_o church_n shall_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o church_n and_o that_o without_o their_o actual_a approbation_n for_o quod_fw-la spectat_fw-la ad_fw-la 〈◊〉_d debat_fw-la ob_fw-la 〈◊〉_d approbari_fw-la if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o a_o particular_a church_n do_v excommunicate_a by_o a_o intrinsical_a power_n not_o only_o in_o itself_o but_o intrinsicall_a in_o the_o whole_a body_n the_o question_n will_v be_v what_o be_v that_o intrinsicall_a power_n be_v it_o natural_a or_o voluntary_a to_o say_v it_o be_v natural_a be_v too_o absurd_a it_o voluntary_a than_o neither_o congregation_n class_n province_n nation_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v without_o the_o previous_a consent_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n which_o must_v voluntary_o concur_v thereunto_o and_o if_o the_o catholic_n presbytery_n as_o 〈◊〉_d say_v have_v no_o next_o but_o a_o a_o remote_a power_n of_o excommunication_n and_o this_o remote_a power_n be_v extraordinary_a or_o rare_a contingens_fw-la or_o almost_o never_o than_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o be_v not_o from_o a_o intrinsâ—…call_a power_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o it_o be_v say_v this_o power_n be_v in_o the_o whole_a but_o not_o derive_v from_o the_o whole_a to_o the_o part_n as_o the_o power_n of_o see_v be_v first_o in_o the_o man_n then_o in_o the_o eye_n yet_o not_o derive_v from_o hand_n leg_n shoulder_n etc._n etc._n and_o as_o the_o great_a body_n of_o the_o sun_n have_v intrinsical_v light_n in_o every_o part_n not_o by_o derivation_n from_o one_o part_n to_o another_o so_o this_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v from_o christ_n the_o head_n to_o all_o the_o integral_a part_n in_o point_n that_o several_o concern_v the_o same_o first_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o every_o particular_a congregation_n receive_v its_o power_n of_o the_o key_n immediate_o from_o christ_n not_o by_o derivation_n from_o any_o presbytery_n or_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o be_v in_o that_o respect_n independent_a neither_o also_o can_v congregation_n derive_v the_o power_n seat_v in_o they_o to_o presbytery_n nor_o any_o great_a body_n take_v it_o from_o they_o second_o though_o we_o acknowledge_v this_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o excommunication_n in_o particular_a congregation_n as_o be_v there_o proper_o seat_v by_o christ_n yet_o that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o political_a church_n classical_a provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_n that_o have_v any_o such_o intrinsical_a power_n as_o be_v in_o the_o sun_n this_o be_v not_o yet_o prove_v to_o our_o understanding_n we_o deny_v â—…ot_v the_o use_n of_o lesser_a and_o great_a synodâ—…_n
rule_v like_a beza_n his_o episcopus_fw-la humanus_fw-la with_o subjection_n in_o case_n of_o error_n to_o the_o censure_n of_o all_o nay_o hence_o we_o see_v not_o but_o they_o may_v choose_v a_o universal_a pastor_n and_o so_o give_v away_o the_o power_n to_o one_o if_o all_o will_v agree_v in_o a_o word_n they_o only_o may_v combine_v into_o a_o political_a body_n where_o the_o whole_a may_v excommunicate_v any_o part_n but_o this_o can_v be_v in_o a_o combination_n of_o many_o church_n into_o one_o whole_a because_o no_o particular_a church_n be_v capable_a of_o excommunication_n for_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o itself_o as_o be_v say_v before_o 5_o a_o particular_a church_n therefore_o must_v be_v such_o a_o society_n as_o be_v so_o combine_v together_o that_o it_o may_v ordinary_o enjoy_v church_n communion_n to_o exercise_v church_n power_n to_o be_v feed_v by_o her_o officer_n and_o lead_v by_o they_o hence_o titus_n be_v to_o set_v elder_n in_o every_o church_n and_o these_o elder_n be_v such_o as_o can_v ordinary_o feed_v they_o by_o preach_v the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o rule_v and_o govern_v they_o now_o that_o such_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v the_o institution_n of_o the_o gospel_n appear_v first_o by_o those_o many_o scripture_n that_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n of_o one_o country_n and_o in_o small_a compass_n as_o several_a church_n not_o as_o one_o as_o the_o church_n of_o judea_n samaria_n and_o galilee_n act_v 9_o the_o church_n of_o galatia_n gal._n 1.1_o yea_o not_o only_o in_o one_o small_a country_n but_o in_o city_n or_o near_o unto_o they_o we_o read_v of_o distinct_a church_n as_o corinth_n though_o god_n have_v much_o people_n there_o yet_o it_o be_v one_o congregation_n 1_o cor._n 14.33_o and_o have_v another_o church_n near_o to_o it_o viz._n cenchrea_n also_o rome_n who_o the_o apostle_n salute_v send_v also_o salutation_n by_o they_o to_o aquila_n and_o priscilla_n with_o the_o church_n in_o their_o household_n which_o show_v they_o be_v not_o far_o from_o that_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o these_o add_v that_o jerusalem_n the_o first_o church_n that_o be_v constitute_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o who_o number_n be_v the_o great_a of_o any_o that_o we_o read_v of_o yet_o it_o be_v but_o one_o congregation_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o act_n 1._o and_o chap._n 2.41_o 42._o what_o be_v object_v against_o this_o to_o prove_v it_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v answer_v before_o other_o objection_n against_o this_o and_o like_a example_n shall_v be_v consider_v in_o their_o due_a place_n as_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o but_o we_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o say_v much_o that_o a_o congregation_n furnish_v with_o its_o officer_n be_v a_o church_n according_a to_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o gospel_n but_o there_o be_v more_o objection_n against_o the_o completeness_n thereof_o which_o yet_o be_v prove_v thus_o that_o church_n which_o have_v power_n of_o all_o the_o key_n give_v unto_o it_o for_o actual_a administration_n within_o itself_o be_v a_o complete_a church_n but_o so_o have_v a_o particular_a congregation_n ergo._fw-la the_o first_o part_n be_v evident_a because_o where_o all_o the_o key_n be_v with_o full_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o same_o there_o nothing_o be_v want_v the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v thus_o if_o all_o those_o officer_n to_o who_o be_v give_v the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o exercise_v the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o a_o congregation_n then_o all_o the_o key_n be_v so_o give_v to_o it_o but_o so_o it_o be_v for_o since_o apostle_n and_o extraordinary_a officer_n cease_v there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n but_o pastor_n teacher_n and_o ruler_n call_v sometime_o bishop_n sometime_o elder_n but_o these_o officer_n be_v give_v to_o such_o a_o church_n as_o be_v prove_v act_n 14._o tit._n 1.4_o and_o be_v acknowledge_v in_o all_o reform_a church_n who_o ordain_v such_o officer_n in_o particular_a church_n of_o one_o congregation_n ergo._fw-la objection_n 1_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o though_o a_o congregation_n have_v such_o officer_n as_o have_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n yet_o that_o such_o must_v combine_v with_o other_o in_o way_n of_o co-ordination_a to_o govern_v in_o common_a and_o so_o to_o be_v help_v and_o complete_v by_o they_o answ_n we_o grant_v much_o help_n may_v be_v have_v by_o sister_n church_n and_o consultative_a presbytery_n but_o that_o which_o take_v away_o the_o exercise_n of_o the_o key_n in_o point_n of_o government_n from_o the_o church_n to_o who_o christ_n have_v give_v it_o do_v not_o complete_a it_o but_o take_v away_o and_o destroy_v the_o power_n and_o liberty_n of_o it_o for_o though_o the_o pastor_n of_o a_o congregation_n may_v oft_o consent_v yet_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o presbytery_n must_v carry_v it_o whether_o he_o consent_v or_o no_o and_o therefore_o his_o power_n be_v swallow_v up_o beside_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o a_o mystery_n that_o every_o pastor_n even_o such_o as_o have_v no_o flock_n shall_v be_v pastor_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o yet_o a_o pastor_n shall_v not_o have_v power_n to_o rule_v in_o his_o own_o flock_n over_o which_o christ_n have_v make_v he_o a_o bishop_n and_o for_o which_o flock_n he_o must_v give_v account_n unto_o god_n objection_n 2_o it_o can_v have_v a_o synod_n which_o be_v one_o ordinance_n of_o god_n therefore_o it_o be_v not_o a_o complete_a church_n answ_n by_o this_o reason_n a_o classical_a church_n be_v not_o complete_a because_o it_o can_v have_v a_o national_n council_n nor_o a_o national_n church_n because_o it_o can_v have_v a_o general_a council_n if_o it_o be_v say_v a_o classis_fw-la have_v all_o ordinary_a mean_n to_o a_o complete_a church_n we_o say_v the_o like_a of_o a_o congregation_n objection_n 3_o though_o a_o town_n or_o family_n be_v cast_v alone_o may_v govern_v as_o a_o complete_a body_n yet_o when_o it_o stand_v in_o a_o commonwealth_n as_o in_o england_n it_o may_v not_o be_v so_o independent_a but_o submit_v to_o combination_n so_o here_o when_o a_o particular_a congregation_n be_v alone_o it_o may_v govern_v as_o complete_a not_o so_o when_o among_o other_o church_n answ_n if_o such_o a_o town_n or_o family_n have_v complete_a power_n and_o all_o civil_a officer_n within_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o such_o combination_n in_o a_o commonwealth_n except_o it_o be_v under_o a_o superior_a power_n that_o can_v command_v the_o same_o as_o abraham_n have_v a_o complete_a government_n in_o his_o family_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o combine_v with_o the_o government_n he_o come_v among_o neither_o do_v he_o in_o prudence_n he_o join_v in_o a_o league_n of_o amity_n and_o for_o mutual_a help_n with_o aner_n etc._n etc._n but_o not_o to_o submit_v to_o their_o government_n so_o here_o a_o church_n have_v complete_a officer_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o such_o combination_n except_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o any_o superior_a power_n of_o other_o church_n can_v command_v the_o same_o second_o though_o a_o family_n not_o have_v complete_a civil_a government_n in_o itself_o must_v combine_v where_o it_o stand_v in_o a_o commonwealth_n yet_o never_o to_o yield_v up_o its_o family-government_n over_o wife_n child_n and_o servant_n to_o rule_v they_o in_o common_a with_o other_o master_n of_o family_n no_o civil_a prudence_n or_o moral_a rule_n teach_v man_n ever_o so_o to_o practice_v and_o therefore_o why_o in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v a_o church_n give_v up_o the_o government_n of_o itself_o to_o pastor_n of_o many_o church_n to_o rule_v it_o in_o common_a and_o not_o rather_o as_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v overawe_v by_o the_o provincial_n only_a in_o common_a thing_n so_o in_o congregation_n pastor_n shall_v govern_v their_o flock_n and_o only_o in_o thing_n common_a be_v under_o a_o presbytery_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v act_n in_o such_o thing_n only_o for_o in_o excommunication_n of_o a_o offender_n the_o offence_n be_v common_a to_o all_o we_o answer_v if_o so_o then_o why_o shall_v not_o the_o provincial_n and_o national_n church_n by_o this_o reason_n assume_v all_o to_o themselves_o from_o the_o classis_fw-la for_o the_o offence_n of_o one_o be_v common_a to_o all_o as_o also_o upon_o this_o ground_n why_o shall_v not_o the_o classis_fw-la admit_v all_o the_o member_n of_o every_o congregation_n under_o they_o for_o this_o also_o may_v concern_v they_o all_o three_o here_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n for_o civil_a society_n be_v leave_v to_o civil_a prudence_n and_o may_v give_v up_o themselves_o to_o many_o form_n of_o government_n but_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o use_v and_o maintain_v such_o order_n of_o government_n as_o christ_n have_v set_v in_o the_o church_n and_o not_o to_o give_v it_o up_o to_o many_o no_o more_o then_o to_o
the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o withal_o that_o they_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o continue_v steadfast_o in_o the_o fellowship_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o apostle_n likewise_o verse_n 47._o that_o the_o conversion_n and_o baptise_v of_o disciple_n be_v omit_v the_o join_n or_o add_v to_o the_o church_n be_v put_v in_o the_o stead_n thereof_o which_o proof_n as_o they_o be_v omit_v whole_o in_o the_o print_a copy_n so_o also_o you_o make_v no_o reply_n unto_o they_o second_o by_o these_o proof_n it_o may_v easy_o have_v be_v see_v that_o we_o do_v not_o look_v upon_o all_o the_o apostle_n act_n in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n as_o extraordinary_a but_o that_o their_o first_o and_o lead_v example_n be_v ordinary_a and_o in_o that_o order_n we_o plead_v for_o which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v regard_v much_o labour_n have_v be_v save_v in_o this_o dispute_n which_o have_v be_v spend_v to_o little_a purpose_n and_o our_o second_o reason_n reply_n in_o due_a order_n the_o seal_n belong_v to_o they_o to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v but_o the_o grant_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o the_o faithful_a and_o their_o seed_n forgiveness_n of_o sin_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n be_v so_o link_v together_o that_o where_o one_o be_v grant_v none_o be_v deny_v etc._n etc._n answ_n it_o be_v true_a the_o seal_n belong_v to_o all_o they_o by_o a_o remote_a right_n to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v as_o have_v be_v oft_o say_v but_o not_o immediate_a yet_o in_o the_o very_o propound_v of_o this_o reason_n we_o may_v observe_v two_o thing_n that_o do_v cut_v the_o sinew_n of_o it_o 1_o the_o limitation_n of_o due_a order_n which_o as_o have_v be_v say_v can_v no_o where_o be_v find_v but_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n let_v any_o show_n what_o order_n christ_n have_v put_v his_o catholic_n visible_a church_n into_o or_o where_o that_o order_n be_v to_o be_v see_v but_o in_o particular_a church_n by_o which_o order_n every_o one_o be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o such_o church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o partake_v in_o the_o outward_a ordinance_n of_o god_n worship_n which_o be_v there_o only_o to_o be_v find_v second_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o not_o only_a forgiveness_n of_o sin_n but_o all_o other_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n be_v link_v together_o and_o be_v the_o grant_v seal_v up_o in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o visible_a conjunction_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n with_o all_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ordinance_n of_o the_o same_o part_n of_o that_o grant_n by_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o the_o gospel_n we_o suppose_v none_o will_v deny_v it_o why_o then_o shall_v not_o visible_a believer_n require_v and_o take_v up_o this_o part_n of_o the_o grant_n as_o well_o as_o the_o seal_n of_o it_o for_o sigillum_fw-la sequitur_fw-la dâ—…num_fw-la let_v they_o take_v this_o gift_n and_o the_o seal_n be_v ready_a for_o they_o and_o this_o may_v answer_v the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o reply_n about_o rom._n 4.11_o as_o also_o all_o the_o rest_n which_o follow_v be_v thing_n so_o oft_o repeat_v and_o answer_v before_o as_o make_v it_o tedious_a to_o all_o chap._n xiiii_o position_n 5._o that_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v so_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n shall_v allow_v must_v be_v do_v though_o the_o pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n and_o that_o peradventure_o upon_o more_o substantial_a reason_n reply_n this_o question_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o demand_n be_v not_o whether_o in_o the_o congregation_n matter_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o you_o interpret_v the_o position_n but_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n so_o lie_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n as_o that_o sentence_n must_v proceed_v in_o externo_fw-la foro_fw-la according_a to_o the_o vote_n and_o determination_n of_o the_o major_a part_n and_o so_o in_o admission_n of_o member_n etc._n etc._n and_o though_o they_o have_v no_o power_n against_o god_n but_o for_o god_n yet_o in_o execution_n of_o that_o power_n they_o may_v be_v divide_v in_o judgement_n and_o one_o part_n must_v errâ—…_n now_o hence_o the_o question_n be_v move_v whether_o the_o power_n be_v so_o in_o the_o people_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n determine_v must_v stand_v answ_n if_o our_o whole_a answer_n have_v be_v attend_v unto_o it_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o full_a that_o it_o can_v not_o with_o any_o show_n of_o reason_n be_v subject_a to_o such_o a_o mistake_n to_o omit_v the_o first_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n affirmative_o wherein_o we_o cite_v mr._n parker_n as_o consent_v with_o he_o in_o the_o second_o part_n to_o the_o position_n as_o state_v our_o answer_n be_v plain_o negative_a that_o excommunication_n be_v not_o so_o seat_v neither_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n what_o follow_v be_v our_o reason_n ground_v upon_o the_o last_o clause_n of_o the_o position_n because_o church_n ought_v to_o carry_v thing_n not_o by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o this_o position_n imply_v but_o by_o strength_n of_o rule_n and_o reason_n according_a to_o god_n and_o for_o edification_n 2_o cor._n 13.8_o 2_o cor._n 10.8_o now_o let_v any_o judge_n whether_o the_o position_n do_v not_o imply_v such_o a_o absurdity_n so_o oft_o as_o thing_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o the_o major_a vote_n against_o the_o officer_n and_o the_o rest_n have_v better_a reason_n and_o therefore_o we_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o the_o learned_a author_n have_v be_v so_o ready_a to_o embrace_v any_o syllable_n that_o lend_v to_o dislodge_v these_o thought_n of_o we_o as_o lean_v to_o separation_n he_o will_v have_v believe_v our_o plain_a negation_n of_o this_o position_n which_o indeed_o be_v according_a to_o our_o constant_a practice_n never_o follow_v the_o major_a part_n of_o vote_n against_o the_o officer_n but_o count_v it_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o officer_n in_o such_o case_n either_o to_o satisfy_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o major_a part_n or_o lesser_a by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n or_o to_o yield_v not_o to_o the_o vote_n but_o reason_n if_o they_o be_v stranger_n or_o to_o suspend_v the_o business_n and_o refer_v to_o the_o counsel_n of_o other_o church_n if_o they_o can_v agree_v but_o a_o division_n arise_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n act._n 15._o reply_n among_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n some_o as_o fenner_n parker_n i._o d._n distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n itself_o which_o they_o give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o execution_n which_o they_o confine_v to_o the_o presbytery_n other_o give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n with_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o if_o in_o the_o dispensation_n they_o attribute_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o officer_n it_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n and_o here_o lie_v the_o stone_n at_o which_o the_o separation_n stumble_v and_o which_o we_o conceive_v to_o be_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n wherein_o we_o require_v your_o plain_a answer_n but_o have_v receive_v no_o satisfaction_n you_o refer_v we_o to_o mr._n parker_n reason_n to_o prove_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n who_o be_v of_o far_o differ_v judgement_n from_o he_o in_o the_o point_n itself_o and_o if_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n be_v as_o the_o separation_n as_o we_o fear_v you_o dissent_v from_o he_o and_o we_o from_o you_o in_o these_o consideration_n answ_n we_o be_v sorry_a to_o see_v this_o reverend_a man_n of_o god_n so_o strong_o possess_v with_o a_o prejudicate_a opinion_n and_o fear_n of_o our_o concurrence_n with_o the_o separation_n upon_o what_o ground_n it_o be_v not_o say_v nor_o can_v we_o apprehend_v that_o neither_o our_o flat_a negation_n of_o the_o position_n nor_o our_o reference_n to_o mr._n parker_n as_o concur_v with_o he_o shall_v give_v he_o any_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o contrary_n but_o if_o that_o be_v the_o judgement_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o separation_n which_o be_v here_o impute_v unto_o they_o viz._n that_o the_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o the_o key_n be_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o what_o the_o officer_n do_v therein_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n if_o our_o profession_n may_v be_v of_o any_o use_n to_o satisfy_v we_o do_v free_o and_o hearty_o profess_v to_o the_o contrary_a
be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o far_o we_o shall_v defend_v this_o position_n and_o wherever_o it_o be_v else_o place_v it_o will_v be_v subject_a to_o all_o the_o absurdity_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o to_o the_o sentence_n of_o parker_n we_o answer_v that_o the_o misinterpret_v one_o word_n of_o his_o sentence_n do_v pervert_v his_o whole_a meaning_n his_o word_n be_v pro_fw-la dono_fw-la conditionali_fw-la ut_fw-la rectoribus_fw-la communicetur_fw-la i._n e._n that_o the_o church_n may_v not_o communicate_v that_o power_n to_o officer_n nor_o keep_v it_o in_o her_o own_o hand_n or_o that_o it_o may_v be_v communicate_v from_o christ_n by_o the_o church_n and_o this_o will_v appear_v his_o meaning_n and_o it_o agree_v with_o that_o position_n he_o hold_v so_o strong_o that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n reply_n after_o the_o church_n be_v establish_v it_o take_v not_o effect_n for_o it_o be_v no_o where_o find_v in_o scripture_n that_o christ_n first_o commit_v this_o power_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o after_o to_o the_o community_n the_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o of_o jesus_n christ_n from_o who_o immediate_o they_o derive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n by_o who_o they_o be_v set_v over_o their_o charge_n in_o who_o name_n they_o execute_v their_o office_n etc._n etc._n yea_o pastorship_n be_v the_o gift_n of_o christ_n as_o well_o as_o apostleship_n and_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v but_o the_o office_n and_o order_n of_o pastor_n the_o call_n authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n not_o from_o the_o church_n answ_n first_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o a_o right_a sense_n give_v to_o the_o church_n take_v effect_n from_o the_o begin_n in_o christ_n institution_n and_o in_o the_o frequent_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v show_v before_o and_o therefore_o this_o be_v needless_a to_o be_v prove_v that_o it_o take_v effect_v after_o second_o that_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n if_o you_o mean_v ordinary_a officer_n and_o that_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v seem_v to_o be_v a_o contradiction_n the_o place_n act._n 28.8_o ephes_n 4_o 8._o etc._n etc._n do_v not_o prove_v that_o all_o officer_n be_v immedate_o from_o christ_n though_o they_o be_v set_v in_o the_o church_n by_o christ_n and_o over_o the_o church_n by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n this_o the_o lord_n can_v do_v and_o do_v do_v by_o the_o mean_n of_o his_o church_n walk_v according_a to_o his_o rule_n and_o institution_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v come_v at_o last_o home_n to_o our_o tenant_n as_o here_o you_o do_v that_o pastorship_n the_o office_n power_n jurisdiction_n etc._n etc._n annex_v to_o it_o be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n viz._n by_o his_o institution_n in_o the_o gospel_n but_o pastor_n every_o one_o that_o receive_v this_o office_n have_v it_o from_o christ_n but_o by_o his_o church_n call_v they_o to_o the_o same_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n apply_v it_o to_o they_o and_o thus_o far_o we_o agree_v with_o you_o reply_n the_o steward_n be_v appoint_v of_o the_o master_n of_o the_o family_n alone_o and_o have_v all_o his_o authority_n from_o he_o every_o ambassador_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o embassage_n do_v immediate_o depend_v upon_o he_o from_o who_o he_o be_v send_v but_o if_o the_o function_n order_n and_o authority_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n than_o it_o be_v not_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o immediate_a receptacle_n answ_n answ_n first_o though_o pastor_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o function_n dispense_v the_o word_n and_o other_o mystery_n of_o christ_n as_o from_o he_o immediate_o and_o so_o be_v fit_o compare_v to_o ambassador_n and_o steward_n yet_o in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o one_o and_o other_o to_o that_o work_n there_o be_v a_o plain_a dissimilitude_n the_o one_o be_v call_v mediate_o the_o other_o immediate_o by_o their_o master_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o case_n it_o prove_v nothing_o what_o do_v this_o argument_n conclude_v if_o only_o that_o the_o function_n and_o order_n be_v not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o first_o subject_n we_o ready_o grant_v it_o if_o the_o application_n of_o the_o office_n to_o such_o a_o person_n so_o far_o as_o may_v be_v do_v by_o a_o outward_a call_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o the_o function_n and_o office_n may_v be_v from_o christ_n and_o the_o application_n thereof_o by_o the_o church_n reply_n thus_o protestant_n divine_v dispute_v against_o papist_n if_o bishop_n receive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o exercise_v immediate_o from_o christ_n by_o mandate_n mission_n and_o commission_n from_o he_o than_o not_o from_o the_o pope_n and_o so_o for_o presbyter_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o bishop_n answ_n the_o reason_n and_o ground_n of_o that_o dispute_n be_v because_o the_o pope_n claim_v a_o plenitude_n of_o power_n from_o peter_n whence_o all_o must_v â—…ee_v derive_v to_o all_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n be_v they_o never_o so_o orderly_o choose_v and_o ordain_v in_o their_o own_o esteem_n and_o so_o indeed_o usurp_v the_o prerogative_n of_o christ_n the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n the_o like_a usurpation_n iâ—…_n its_o degree_n be_v in_o the_o bishop_n over_o presbyter_n but_o here_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a the_o church_n clame_v no_o such_o power_n but_o only_o ministerial_a in_o the_o outward_a call_n of_o officer_n according_a to_o his_o direction_n and_o so_o the_o application_n of_o that_o office_n unto_o the_o person_n which_o have_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o scripture_n from_o christ_n and_o therefore_o we_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o they_o derive_v not_o their_o power_n from_o the_o people_n but_o from_o christ_n by_o mean_n of_o the_o church_n ministerial_o and_o instrumental_o apply_v that_o office_n to_o they_o whereunto_o christ_n have_v annex_v that_o power_n last_o the_o like_a argument_n may_v be_v object_v against_o any_o other_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n you_o can_v or_o will_v suppose_v even_o the_o presbytery_n itself_o reply_n it_o be_v usual_o objâ—…cted_v that_o the_o church_n can_v convey_v what_o she_o never_o have_v but_o the_o people_n may_v elect_v their_o pastor_n whereunto_o the_o answer_n be_v direct_a and_o plain_a nothing_o can_v give_v that_o it_o have_v not_o formal_o or_o virtual_o unless_o it_o give_v it_o as_o a_o instrument_n minister_a to_o one_o that_o have_v it_o but_o so_o it_o may_v give_v what_o it_o never_o have_v nor_o be_v capable_a of_o a_o steward_n may_v give_v all_o the_o office_n in_o his_o master_n house_n as_o ministerial_o execute_v his_o master_n pleasure_n answ_n this_o answer_n do_v not_o satisfy_v for_o we_o can_v put_v off_o our_o old_a principle_n of_o reason_n that_o every_o instrument_n minister_a to_o the_o principal_a cause_n do_v confer_v vim_o ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la and_o so_o far_o or_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o give_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o effect_n in_o that_o sense_n and_o so_o far_o it_o must_v needs_o have_v virtual_o or_o formal_o the_o same_o in_o itself_o if_o a_o conduit_n convey_v water_n ministerial_o from_o the_o fountain_n to_o the_o house_n it_o have_v water_n in_o such_o a_o sense_n as_o it_o do_v concur_v to_o the_o effect_n and_o so_o the_o church_n can_v give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o officer_n as_o a_o instrument_n of_o christ_n but_o it_o must_v be_v grant_v she_o receive_v they_o from_o christ_n virtual_o to_o give_v they_o to_o the_o officer_n second_o for_o the_o instance_n if_o it_o be_v mean_v of_o a_o steward_n give_v the_o office_n to_o such_o person_n as_o his_o master_n have_v name_v thereunto_o and_o he_o instal_v they_o into_o the_o same_o the_o case_n be_v not_o alike_o yet_o here_o he_o must_v have_v some_o power_n and_o authority_n so_o to_o do_v so_o that_o he_o have_v these_o office_n virtual_o in_o his_o hand_n but_o if_o it_o be_v his_o master_n will_n he_o shall_v choose_v what_o person_n he_o see_v fit_a according_a to_o rule_n give_v he_o which_o be_v the_o case_n here_o than_o he_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o in_o his_o hand_n reply_n three_o if_o ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n be_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a the_o church_n do_v not_o only_o call_v but_o make_v officer_n out_o of_o power_n and_o virtue_n receive_v into_o herself_o and_o then_o shall_v the_o church_n have_v a_o true_a lordlike_a power_n in_o regard_n of_o her_o minister_n reply_n answ_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o that_o hold_v the_o church_n have_v so_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o herself_o as_o that_o she_o may_v derive_v from_o herself_o authority_n to_o the_o officer_n let_v such_o look_v unto_o the_o
that_o of_o ananias_n and_o saphira_n where_o god_n have_v not_o bind_v they_o to_o debar_v approve_a christian_n from_o the_o seal_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v as_o settle_a member_n to_o abide_v in_o the_o society_n and_o yet_o charge_v they_o as_o man_n that_o against_o light_n refuse_v subjection_n to_o the_o gospel_n this_o be_v that_o which_o we_o can_v approve_v which_o yet_o we_o suspect_v will_v follow_v from_o your_o judgement_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v resolve_v in_o your_o practice_n answ_n here_o be_v a_o great_a heap_n of_o heavy_a crimination_n gather_v together_o and_o cast_v upon_o we_o upon_o very_o weak_a ground_n upon_o mistake_n suspicion_n and_o we_o fear_v too_o much_o credulity_n give_v to_o some_o clamorous_a person_n return_v to_o england_n and_o too_o little_a credit_n give_v to_o our_o true_a relation_n and_o faithful_a profession_n most_o of_o these_o have_v be_v clear_v in_o the_o former_a passage_n where_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o and_o we_o marvel_v how_o they_o come_v in_o so_o twist_v together_o here_o again_o we_o shall_v here_o only_o clear_v ourselves_o of_o the_o first_o and_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o their_o proper_a place_n to_o see_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o other_o here_o it_o be_v impute_v unto_o we_o that_o we_o have_v devise_v a_o rite_n to_o preserve_v the_o unity_n and_o prevent_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o body_n which_o we_o conceive_v be_v intend_v of_o this_o promise_n of_o not_o removal_n without_o leave_n which_o promise_n be_v not_o require_v of_o we_o nor_o make_v in_o our_o church_n covenant_n as_o we_o have_v say_v and_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n be_v also_o a_o mere_a mistake_n arise_v from_o the_o confound_a of_o a_o second_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o reason_n with_o the_o second_o reason_n of_o our_o practice_n which_o be_v distinct_a and_o have_v a_o different_a scope_n for_o whereas_o some_o may_v object_v that_o this_o reason_n from_o the_o covenant_n hold_v with_o such_o as_o grant_v such_o a_o covenant_n lawful_a the_o answer_n say_v that_o some_o indeed_o question_v the_o necessity_n of_o it_o but_o we_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o question_v the_o lawfulness_n and_o thereupon_o the_o answer_n first_o give_v reason_n and_o proof_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o and_o second_o for_o the_o necessity_n which_o be_v take_v from_o the_o nature_n of_o all_o society_n incorporate_v which_o by_o a_o fundamental_a rule_n do_v require_v of_o all_o that_o enter_v into_o they_o and_o partake_v of_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o to_o conform_v to_o all_o such_o lawful_a rite_n and_o order_n as_o be_v expedient_a for_o the_o well_o be_v of_o that_o society_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o will_v be_v injurious_a to_o he_o to_o offer_v and_o confusion_n in_o they_o to_o accept_v and_o from_o hence_o it_o easy_o follow_v that_o a_o church_n be_v a_o body_n of_o a_o people_n enjoy_v privilege_n together_o it_o be_v necessary_a fundamental_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v join_v in_o some_o promise_n or_o covenant_n which_o covenant_n though_o in_o civil_a society_n it_o may_v consist_v in_o rite_n and_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o for_o their_o good_a yet_o in_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n this_o covenant_n be_v no_o other_o but_o to_o perform_v the_o duty_n require_v in_o the_o gospel_n towards_o god_n and_o one_o another_o without_o any_o rite_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o themselves_o as_o we_o profess_v in_o set_v forth_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o this_o be_v the_o true_a scope_n of_o those_o word_n let_v any_o judge_n what_o ground_n be_v give_v by_o we_o of_o such_o a_o imputation_n of_o devise_v rite_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v the_o second_o reason_n in_o the_o answer_n give_v any_o ground_n of_o this_o imputation_n for_o though_o it_o dispute_v from_o the_o necessary_a ruin_n of_o the_o church_n and_o all_o church_n if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o member_n when_o whither_o and_o wherefore_o he_o please_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n without_o consent_n yet_o there_o be_v not_o one_o syllable_n that_o give_v a_o hint_n of_o any_o rite_n custom_n or_o order_n devise_v by_o we_o to_o prevent_v the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o avoid_n thereof_o we_o still_o whole_o and_o only_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n to_o direct_v order_n and_o reform_v all_o action_n of_o this_o nature_n and_o to_o show_v unto_o man_n whether_o they_o may_v lawful_o remove_v or_o not_o remove_v not_o require_v any_o express_a promise_n to_o the_o contrary_a in_o this_o particular_a no_o more_o than_o in_o other_o and_o thus_o we_o hope_v we_o have_v resolve_v you_o of_o our_o practice_n as_o you_o desire_v to_o conclude_v this_o passage_n give_v we_o leave_v without_o offence_n to_o say_v thus_o much_o although_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n we_o desire_v humble_o to_o submit_v to_o this_o part_n of_o our_o trial_n even_o to_o go_v through_o evil_a report_n as_o well_o as_o good_a yea_o all_o the_o reproach_n and_o cruel_a mock_n of_o the_o world_n know_v that_o we_o have_v deserve_v much_o more_o from_o the_o hand_n of_o that_o god_n without_o who_o providence_n a_o tongue_n can_v not_o move_v against_o we_o yet_o we_o can_v but_o account_n be_v one_o of_o our_o poor_a affliction_n to_o suffer_v in_o this_o kind_n from_o the_o pen_n or_o tongue_n of_o our_o dear_o belove_a brethren_n for_o who_o we_o daily_o pray_v and_o to_o who_o we_o hope_v we_o shall_v never_o be_v provoke_v to_o return_v any_o other_o language_n then_o savour_v of_o love_n and_o respect_n but_o we_o must_v confess_v we_o meet_v with_o so_o many_o sore_a crimination_n oft_o upon_o mere_a mistake_n cast_v not_o only_o upon_o ourselves_o but_o the_o truth_n and_o way_n of_o god_n which_o we_o profess_v and_o that_o both_o by_o this_o learned_a author_n and_o some_o other_o that_o we_o can_v be_v so_o senseless_a of_o the_o dishonour_n be_v reflect_v upon_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n herein_o as_o whole_o to_o be_v silent_a and_o groan_n out_o the_o grief_n of_o our_o spirit_n to_o he_o that_o know_v our_o heart_n wherefore_o we_o humble_o beseech_v all_o our_o godly_a brethren_n to_o bear_v with_o we_o a_o little_a if_o after_o all_o the_o harsh_a passage_n of_o this_o reply_n such_o a_o heap_n of_o accusation_n as_o be_v here_o throw_v upon_o we_o move_v we_o to_o present_v to_o the_o reader_n a_o short_a view_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unjust_o and_o unground_o cast_v upon_o we_o and_o which_o we_o can_v but_o think_v have_v draw_v a_o black_a cloud_n over_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o holy_a discipline_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o have_v here_o set_v up_o among_o we_o to_o omit_v the_o general_a frame_n of_o this_o reply_n in_o present_v our_o opinion_n and_o way_n to_o the_o people_n as_o if_o we_o concur_v general_o with_o those_o of_o the_o rigid_a separation_n and_o differ_v almost_o in_o every_o thing_n from_o such_o godly_a brethren_n as_o have_v breathe_v after_o purity_n of_o ordinance_n and_o reformation_n to_o omit_v also_o the_o frequent_a insert_v of_o such_o term_n unto_o our_o question_n and_o argument_n contrary_a to_o the_o true_a state_n thereof_o which_o render_v every_o thing_n harsh_a and_o full_a of_o rigidness_n to_o the_o ear_n of_o the_o reader_n as_o have_v be_v observe_v by_o we_o and_o omit_v also_o divers_a other_o supposition_n and_o objection_n we_o shall_v only_o desire_v those_o who_o have_v take_v up_o evil_a thought_n concern_v these_o church_n and_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n we_o walk_v in_o from_o this_o reply_n to_o note_v these_o particular_a imputation_n in_o this_o short_a chapter_n and_o upon_o what_o ground_n they_o be_v build_v as_o page_n 79._o that_o we_o hinder_v man_n from_o entrance_n into_o church_n society_n because_o they_o can_v promise_v continuance_n in_o the_o place_n and_o run_v upon_o this_o strain_n he_o say_v be_v it_o ever_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o this_o day_n that_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v propound_v unto_o and_o require_v of_o member_n to_o be_v admit_v into_o church_n fellowship_n here_o be_v a_o loud_a outcry_n and_o who_o will_v not_o think_v but_o that_o we_o usual_o propound_v and_o require_v such_o a_o thing_n in_o our_o admission_n which_o yet_o be_v nothing_o so_o but_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o this_o look_v a_o little_a before_o and_o he_o say_v if_o such_o a_o promise_n be_v require_v again_o ibidem_fw-la say_v he_o we_o think_v the_o church_n be_v overrigid_a in_o exact_v such_o a_o condition_n of_o the_o member_n and_o the_o member_n go_v beyond_o their_o measure_n as_o busy_a body_n and_o what_o be_v the_o ground_n it_o follow_v if_o they_o arrogate_v