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B06481 A vulgar or popvlar discourse. Shewing that the warre [raised by the two] houses, fomented chiefly [by the Londo]ners ... and others ... disaffected to monarchicall government is not ... in defence of the ... Protestant religion ... the laws and liberties of the kingdom ... but rather destructive to them all. / Written dialogue-wise, by Irenaeus ... against Eristes ... Alvey, Yeldard. 1643 (1643) Wing V750; ESTC R186086 30,959 55

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Calvin Institut lib. 4. cap. 20. Sect. 29. If we be cruelly oppressed by a cruell Prince if we be polled and pillaged by a covetous or luxurious Prince if we be negligently governed by a carelesse Prince if for godlinesse we be as God be thanked we are not persocuted by an Impious and sacrilegious Prince let us in the first place remember our sins which no doubt are corrected by God with such scourges this will be a means to bridle our impatience with humility then let this thought come into our minds that it is not in our power without Gods help to mend or remedy such evils and therefore in the last place it remaines that we should implore the help of God in whose hands are the hearts of Kings and inclinations of Kingdoms Have you any other coulourable pret●nces which may in some sort seemingly excuse though in no sort justifie your taking up Arms to resist the King who is the highest power in this Kingdom next under God and therefore cannot be resisted without perill of damnation Rom. 13.2 Eristes You mistake Irenaeus we doe not resist the King or his legall power but only his verball personall illegall command which we may doe without danger of incurring the penalty threatned by the Apostle to such as resist the higher power Rom. 13.2 Irenaeus The Apostle in that Chapter commands all who live under authority to be subject to the higher power and proves by five perswasive convincing reasons that they ought to be subject First ab Authore from the Author of all power qui● non est potestas nisi a Deo because there is no power but of God Secondly he proveth that all must be subject to the higher power a bono ordinis from the good of order quia potestates quae sunt a Deo ordinatae sunt be●●use the power● that be are ordeined and set in order by God one above another and we should be Authors of confusion and perverters of that comely order which God who is the God of order and not of confusion hath ordeined if we should refuse to live in subjection unto him whom he hath appointed to rule over us Thirdly that we are to be subject to the higher power he proves a malo culpae because it is a sin to resist the Supreame Magistrate or the higher power for he that resisteth the power resisteth the Ordinance of God vers 2. Beware then how thou resist thy Prince upon any pretence or take p●rt with such as doe resist him by force of Arms for his Person is sacred his ordination divine and cannot without sin be resisted Fourthly that we must be subject to the higher power the Apostles proves a malo panae f●om the evill of punishment b●●●use they that resist and will not be subject shall unavoidably and deserv●●ly receive to themselves crim● ju●gement if not tempor●ll in this world yet most certainly eternall in the world to come unlesse they repent Lastly be proves that we must be subject to the higher powers a bono se●ie●atis from the good of Society because we that live in a civill Society receive and reape much good by their government they are the Ministers of God for our good Were there no King appointed to rule over u● we should soon see a generall Ar●xy Disorder and Confusion in all est●tes in the Church such abuses as would m●ke us to abhorre the Sanctuary of the Lord in the Common-wealth such hai●ous enormities and impieties a● would vex our Soules to see and behold them In the 17. 18. 19. Chapters of the Booke of Judges there ●●e may read of disorder upon disorder and still in the close this is alledged as the chiefe cause of all those disorders That there was no King in Israel to curb and restraine the insolent unruly passions of men but every one was permitted to doe what seemed good in his own eyes and no wonder that all things in the Church and State were then out of order when there was no King or no authority in the Supreame Magistrate to keep men in due order by all which it evidently appeares that Praestat sub malo Principe esse quam sub nullo It is better to live under the government of an evill or Tyrannicall Prince then to have none at all to govern u● Wherefore because all power is of God because the powers that be are tetagmenai ordained and set in order by God because it is a sin to resist the higher powers because judgement both temporall and eternall is the punishmen● of that sin lastly because they are the Ministers of God for our good therefore as the Apostle infers we must of necessity be subject unto them not only for feare of the temporall sword or in●u●ring their wrath and disple●su●e who cannot but be angry and much displeased wit●●hose that resist them but al●o for Conscie●ce sake tow●rd● God who hath ●id a ●ye upon the Co●science of all ●nferiou● o p●rsor●● t●e D●●y of Subjection to their Sup●●●ours y●● t●oug● t●ey be such a● t●● hig●er powe●●●en wer● Tyr●●t to their own Su●●●● and Perse●me● of Christian Pro-fessour and prose●● Enemies of the C●ristian faith He that wa● Empe●our when Saint Paul wro●e that Epistle to the Romans was Nero a Tyrant a v●le an● violent opposer of Christ●●n Re●●gion Nero saith le●●ed Moulin was a Monster in nature the shame of humane ●●●d al●● first Emperour that began to persecute the Church neverthelesse the Apostle Rom. 13. speaking of that power which was then in being saith that it was ordeined by God and that whosoever resisted the same resisted the ordinance of God and by their resistance did deservedly pull upon themselves damnation and if in the Apostles judgement it was a sin deserving damnation to resist Nero a bloody Tyrant and cruell persecuter of Christians what a haynous sin are they guilty of and what a judgement doe they deserve that resist His sacred Majesty our Soveraigne Lord King Charles who is the most gracious and religious King in Christendom Eristes I tell you we neither resist the King nor His Legall power but only His illegall will and command Irenaeus First are you sure that all or any of the Kings commands which you withstand are illegall if they be not then Boroughs your chiefe Advocate freely grants That there is no help left you but either to fly or passively to obey them though he command you to obey such Laws as be sinfull If they be every way illegall neither agreeable to the Law of God nor the Laws of the Land then you may doe well to enforme us how you may with a safe and satisfied Conscience resist them and neither resist the King nor His Legall power that you may resist them by a bare deniall of obedience unto them if such a deniall may be termed a resistance is formerly granted but may you resist them with armed violence will you cut his illegall commands in peeces with your Swords or beat them back with your Cannons doe not alter the state of the question and the point is cleare That the resistance which you make is not only against the verball commands of the King but against the King himselfe who gave those commands and by consequence against that Legall Kingly power or Royall Authority which can never be divorced from His sacred Person while He remains a King for though his authority may by Delegation or Commission be in His Courts where His Person is not ever present yet that His person can be any where or at any time without His Royall authority is such a sublime point such an hidden mistery of State such a new peece of Divinity that my faith is not strong enough to beleeve it nor yours or any other mans wit sufficiently able to prove it Surely the Primitive Christians were dull and stupid who poore simple ignorant Soules out of meer simplicity suffered so much because they were not capable of this subtle nice distinction which were it once admitted for currant and Canonicall Subjects might resist the Prince and lay violent hands up in His Person and yet be neither Traytors nor Rebells but canonized Saints And what can the poore Kingdom expect where the Person of the Prince is not held inviolable and sacred but combustion and confusion The Jews have a proverbiall saying Migrandum est ex illo loco uhi Rex non timetur That men should haste out of that place Country or Kingdom where the King is not feared thereby intimating that doubtlesse some great and fearfull judgement doth hang over it Oh then let me exhort you who have taken up Armes against your Soveraigne no● to turn Religion into Reb●ll●on patience into violence fidelity into perjury subject 〈◊〉 into sedition and you London Lecturers that have been t e chiefe Trumpetters to this desperate unnaturall bloody irreligious Warre turn not your spirituall Militiae into that which is carnall doe not exhort men in the fear of God to fight against the King for that feare of God which doth not strengthen but abate the feare of the King and shrinke 〈…〉 obedience it is 〈…〉 a 〈…〉 ●ented devised ●o●●●●●ted by m●● and taught or approved by God the true Religion fear● of God ●●●heth 〈◊〉 feare and honour the King to be subject 〈◊〉 him and not to resist Him I will conclude with a Prayer THen that art the God of Peace settle the Peace of this dis●…ed Kingdom by casting faction out of the State and Schism●● of the Church and by undeceiving the minds 〈◊〉 that have been seduced into open rebellion under a pre●●●●● of Piety and Religion that so we may come once more to live a quiet pe●ceable life in all godlinesse and honesty under the Religiou● Governme●● of our gracious Soveraigne ●hom doe thou O Lord long preserve to raigne over us an happy King of many blessings Errata Pa●… 〈◊〉 ●ine to after the second word the adde La●o● and. p. 9. l. 2. after 〈◊〉 ● or p. 11. l. 15. for secondly r. thirdly p. 28. l. 3. for there r. hir p ●4 l. 22. for unlawfullnesse r. lawfulnesse l. 24. for ordinances 〈◊〉 ordnances other literall fruits I leave to the correction of the inte●…igent Reader FINIS
A VULGAR OR POPVLAR DISCOURSE SHEWING That the Warre raised by the two Houses fomented chiefly by the Londoners abetted for the mo●… 〈…〉 and others notoriously disaffected to Monarchiall Government Is not as Boroughs pretends in defence of the Protestant Religion His Majesties Person the Laws and Liberties of the Kingdom and Priviledges of Parliament but rather destructive to them all Written Dialogue wise By Irenaeus A Lover of Peace against Eristes A Lover of Contention Prov. 24.21.22 My Sonne feare God and the King and meddle not with them that are given to change for their calamity shall rise suddenly Tertul. Apol●… c●…●… In Majes●…tis 〈…〉 When Majesty is wronged every 〈…〉 to maintain the Right and 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of His Soveraigne Printed at York by Stephen Bulkley 1643. To His Excellence WILLIAM Earle of NEWCASTLE Viscount Mansfield Lord Ogle Baron of Bolsover Bothall and Hepple Governour of the Towne and County of Newcastle Generall of all His Majesties Forces in the North Parts of this Kingdome and in the Counties of Nottingham Lincoln Rutland Derby Stafford Leicester Warwick Northampton Huntington Cambridge Norfolke Suffolke Essex and Hertford One of His Majesties most Honourable Privie Councell Right Honourable I Make bold in all humblenesse to present this Treatise to your Honours acceptance the candid construction which your excellence hath often been pleased to give of my Sermons delivered to the Eare hath encouraged me by a bold tender to offer this to your judicious Eye If it obtain your Lordships approbation it will not repent me that I have exposed it to the criticall View of this censorious age by so open a Publication your Countenance it begges that your Greatnesse may protect it And daigne Noble Lord to vouchsafe it your Honourable Patronage for it justifies that cause with the Pen which your Excellence maintains with the Sword it pleades for Loialty and to whom can a Treatise of Loialty in these Parts more fitly make it's addresse for shelter then unto his Excellence William Earle of Newcastle who as one of our Davids most excellent Worthies hath approved himselfe a most Renowned Heroick Magnanimous protector of Loialty in these Northern Counties to the perpetuall Honour of his Name and Noble Family Goe on still most Noble Lord with Heroick Magnanimity and prosper till all the Kings Enemies that have risen up against Him be cloathed with shame and my Lord the King return home to His Pallace at White-Hall in Peace Which is the Loyall the earnest Prayer of Your Excellencies in all humble Observance Service and Duty Y. A. A Vulgar or Popular Discourse Written Dialogue-wise By Irenaeus A Lover of Peace against Eristes A Lover of Contention IRenaeus Why do you fill the Church with Schisme and the State with Faction can you tell Eristes what is it you contend for or what warrant have you to lift up your hands against your Lawfull Soveraigne the Lords Anoynted Eristes Are you a Stra●ger Irenaeus in this our Israel and know not these things the m●tters for which we contend are m●tter● of importance for we take up Arms in defence of the true Protestant Religion His Majesties Person the Liberties of the Kingdom the Priviledges of Parliament and that by Warrant and Commission from the two Houses of Parliament Irenaeus Surely Eristes you meane to put a gull upon me as you have done upon many others and by these fait plausible Pretences would seduce me to take part with you in a wretched Quarrell and to hazard my Life in this World and my Soul in the next by bearing Arms against my Soveraigne Eristes What doe you hold it an unlawfull and damnable act to take up Arms against your Soveraigne in Defence of the true Protestant Religion His Majesties Sacred Person the Lawes of the Land the Libertyes of the Subject and the undoubted Priviledges of Parliament Irenaeus First you take for granted that which will be denyed and go about to render your Prince odious to His People under the hatefull notion of a Tyrant as if he meant to subvert the true Protestant Religion the Laws of the Land c. which are sad charges but how groundlesse God and the World knowes Secondly were your Pretences as true as they are specious yet it is contrary to the Law of God the Doctrine of the Apostles the perpetuall Pa●ience of Christs Church that Princes may be resisted by their own Subjects this is a Conclusion drawn no● from Divinity but Conspiracy and whosoever te●ch Resistance of the highest Power or Supreme M●gistrate their doctrine is wicked and their proofes must need● be weak let us heare then orderly and distinctly what you can alledge to Justifie your forcible Resistance of Soveraignty Eristes You mistake Irenaeus we who side with the two Houses of Parliament do not arme our selves to fight against the King but for the King Irenaeus There are no Rebells but pretend somewhat to justifie their unlawfull Acts of Rebellion do you not take up Arms against the King when you oppose him by Force of Arm and in an Hostile manner seize upon his Force Ammunition Ships Revenues when you make a General of your own and give him Power to Kill and Murder the Persons to burne and plunder the Houses of His Leige People when you discharge your Ordnance against Him and his Army to the endangering of his Sacred Person this is a strange defence to shoot at the King in his own defence I believe if this be to defend his Person you would not be a King to be so defended Consider it well and if this be not to take up Arms against the King I seriously confesse I know not what is nor know I what any Rebells can do more Eristes But we doe it to make him a glorious King to defend preserve and maintaine his true Regall Power Honour and Dignity to rescue him out of the hands of the Malignant Party who are his greatest Enemies Irenaeus You tell us that you will make him a great and glorious King whilst you use all possible ●kill to reduce him to extream want and indigency and that you will make him to be honoured at home and feared abroa● whilest you indeavour by an unusuall way of Remonstrancing to make him Person contemptible to Forraigne Princes and his Government odious to his good Subjects You set a worke seditious Sectaries and Schismaticks like so many Catalin●s the Firebrands of their Country to perswade the People that what you do is to defend preserve and maintaine his Honour when as appears by the nineteen Propositions you intend nothing lesse for to instance in some of them Is it for his honour to have all his Counsellours and great Officers displaced for no other fault but because they have approved themselves most loyall and faithfull to him Is it for his Honour that he shall never choose any Officer of State but accept such as the two Houses of Parliament shall be pleased to nominate and appoint You would
to rule over them yet they choose rather to suffer then to ●●ke ●●s●stance by force of Armes though they lacked ●either 〈◊〉 strength to withstand the Emperours Forces And that the doctrine of resisting Pri●●● 〈…〉 taught by the ancient Father you shall he 〈◊〉 ●onsi●●●ly averred by some Learned Divin● of our C●u●ch who were best seen and verst in their Writings No O●tho●o● Father did by Word or Writing 〈◊〉 resis● 〈◊〉 fo● the space of a thousand yeares after Christ ●e●l●●● 〈◊〉 cap. 19. Sect. 19. The worthy Fathers and Bishop● of the Church perswaded themselves that they owed all duty ●o Kings though Infidels and Heretickes Feild lib. 5. cap. 45. The Doctrine which teacheth resistance of Prince● is wicked having neither Scripture Councell nor Father which avowed it for a thousand yeares Bilsons true diff●ren●● between Christian Subjection and Unchristian R●bellion part 3. in whom we often meet with these or the like pa●sages Whether Princes be with God or against God either we must obey their Commandement or abide the ●●nishment if we will be Subjects Princes must be obeyed or endured Either obedien●● to their Wills or submission to the Sword is due by Go● Law God is not served with resisting the Sword but with dutifull obedience to Magistrate● when their commands agr●● with his and in case their Wills be dissonant from his th●● is he served with meeknesse and readinesse to beare 〈◊〉 abide that which earthly powers shall inflict this was the cause why the Church of Christ alwayes rejoyced in the Blood of their Martyrs patiently suffering the cruell rage both of Pagans and Arrians and never favoured any tumults of Rebells assembling themselves to withstand authority That conceit then of Bridges is fond foolish and unwarrantable who thinks that many Christian Martyrs in the Primitive Church would so farre have resisted the Roman Emperours that they would have saved their own Lives if the Senate of Rome or the People of the Roman Empire would have joyned with them Tertullian disclaimed this fancy with an absit God forbid that we Christians should defend our selves against our Emperours by humane force There can be no Warre made against us but we are fit and sufficient for it if we would seek revenge of our persecutors but our Christian discipline and profession is rather to be slain then to slay Tertul Apologet cap. 37. Saint Cyprian expresseth the same Christian profession Cyprian ad Demetriad nos laesos divina ultio desendet inde est quod nemo nostrum se adversus injustam violentiam quamvis nimius copiosus sit noster populus ulciscatur We leave vengeance to God and hence it is that none of us doe seek to revenge our selves against unjust violence although our number be exceeding great more then the number of our persecutors Erisles But what if the Kingdom see it selfe in imminent danger most likely to be ruinated by the King and His Cavaliers may it not stand up to defend it selfe by force of Armes Is not Salus Populi Suprema Lex The safety of the People the Supreme Law The preservation of the Kingdom and of the Religion Laws and Liberties thereof to be preferred before subjection to the King Irenaeus First God be thanked that is not our case for as that Gentleman of quality who wrote the Review of the Observations upon some of His Majesties late Answers and Expresses well Observes No King of this Realme hath granted more for the good ease benefit and behoofe of His Subjects then His Majesty hath done had we thankfull hearts to acknowledge it witnesse His damming of Ship-Money Monopolies c. And His yeelding to the regulation of whatsoever further grievance should be found in the Commonwealth What more gracious motion could be made by a Prince to His People then that which His Majesty made in His Message to both Houses of Parliament Ian. 20. 1641. Wherin He moved them with all speed to fall into a serious considerations of these 〈◊〉 whi●h they should hold necessary for the present and future establishment of their Privi●e●…es the free and quiet enjoying of their Estates and fortunes the Liberties of their 〈◊〉 the security of the true Religion now professed in the Church of England and the setling 〈◊〉 Ceremonies in such a d●s ent a●… c●…ly manner as might take away all just o●… offence Is this the gr●tious motion of a King that intends the ruine and subversion of His Kingdom God be Judge between Him and them that would fasten so false an● foule an aspersion upon a Prince unparalelled for clemency and piety Secondly Though the King should in a Violent and Tyrannicall way goe about to oppresse His People though really and truely there were such dangers threatned both to the Church and State as is pretended yet unlawfull means such as is resisting the Supreme Magistrate in a free Monarchy to defend our selves from unjust violence and oppression ought not to be used Suffering is commanded and commended unto us in the Scripture resisting is forbidden Rom. 13.2 Our Saviour foreshewing his Disciples that they should be brought before Kings and Rulers and be cruelly entreated saith not and he that first Rebells but he that endureth to the end shall be saved Mat. 10. And again not with violence resist them but in patience possesse your Soule Luke 21. This is the way for all Christian Subjects to conquer Tyrants not to resist the Supreme Power though Tyrannically abused least we be damned but rather to suffer that we may be Crowned When either we cannot escape by flight or abate stop the fury of Tyrants by our Teares and Prayers to God The Ancient Fathers allowed no other Weapons to Christian Subjects against persecuting Tyrants but only these foure Preces Lachrymas patientiam sugam Prayers and Tears Patience and Flight And it is observed by the Learned that the Churches never more flourished then in the Primitive times when they used these defensive Weapons only Vide Field l. ●0 c. 45. reserving vengeance unto God to whom only it belongs to take order with wicked Kings since he alone is above them and therefore he alone hath power to punish them The royall dignity of Kings is so inseparably annexed to their sacred Persons that although they doe offend in Person yet no vindictive power can be exercised against their persons without violation of their Royall Dignity which although it be not transcendent to all Laws of Justice to be done yet it is transcendent to all Lawes of Justice in respect of punishment by man when Justice is not done And in that respect David a King truely said to God against thee only have I sinned Psal ●1 4 he had sinned against others yet so as none might take vengeance of him for his sinne but only God This I am sure was the Divinity of Saint Ambrose Chrysostome and others of the Ancient Fathers Reges nullis ad paenam vo●antur legibus tuti imperii