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A87638 An examination of the observations upon His Majesties answers. Wherein the absurdities of the observators positions, and inferences are discovered. Jones, John, 17th cent. 1643 (1643) Wing J968; Thomason E65_7; ESTC R23238 15,689 26

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laid Admit Supremacie derived from the people hence Quod facit tale est magis tale The people more noble than the King because he is for them not they for him instituted Salus populi Suprema Lex and the Law of prerogative is subservient to this the King singulis major universis minor the right of conquest cannot bee pleaded to acquit Princes of that which is due to the people as the authors and ends of all power for meere force cannot alter the course of Nature or frustrate the tenour of Law and if it could there were more reason why the people might instisie force to regaine due Liberty then the King might subvert the same And this is all I finde in your Observations reducible to maintaine the principall subject of your observation the residue being either matter of fact admonitions or reprehensions I shall not meddle with being Heterogencous to our present purpose Quod facit tale c. Wine maketh a man drunk therefore Wine it selfe is more drunke than man the inference holdeth not you see in causes by accident Sol homo generant hominem therefore the Sunne is more man then the man generated this I am assured you will confesse to bee a very bad consequence so then the Maxime is not current in partiall efficients and the people are at most but partiall causes for you allow God also a sharer of this Supremacie but I will admit further unto you Supremacie wholly derived from the people the maxime is not true in all totall causes Adam was the author or cause of sinne God was the totall Author or cause of Adam therefore God was more Author or Cause of sinne your Religion will not allow this Logick the axiome therefore holdeth not in totall free agents and though I admit you the people to be whole cause of this power yet I know you will say they are free Agents in conferring of it and if you allow them that freedome your Axiome you see is ill applyed To come yet nearer unto you a Servant giveth the Master the title of Master Relatives as these are are Causa sibi invicem doth it follow therefore that the servant is more Master then he that is made master by him the passage betweene Valentinian and his Souldiers recorded by Sozom. in his Ecclesiasticall History cleareth the point Vt me ad imperandum vobis eligeretis in vestra situm erat potestate ô milites at postquam me elegistis quod petitis in meo est arbitrio non vestro vobis tanquam subditis competit parere mihi quae facienda sunt cogitare That I was chosen your Emperour lay in your power Souldiers but after I am so chosen by you what you demand of me lyeth now in mine not your power it befits you as subjects to obey and me to consider what I am to doe Your Quod facit iale in point of government holdeth true in him or them whose power continually dependeth upon the will of him or them that gave it not in them who have it transacted by one Act bee it absolute or with certaine limitation that this power is transactable is allowed by your selfe and that absolutely some thing is alreadie proved the conditionall relation of it we shall referre to be further examined in the second member of the division of immediate efficients and here we will sift the second propertie you annex to the subject of your discourse this supposed popular Supremacie The People more noble than the King because he for them not they for him is instituted that universally taken is apparently false some Government is onely for the Governour not the Governed erected as that between the Master and Servant whom the Master taketh for his own not his Servants profit and though the Servant gaineth by the service yet his gain was neither the cause nor end of this dominion not of that gained by conquest the end and efficient of some Government are both the Governour and Governed as that between the Husband and the Wife whose subjection still referreth to her and her Husbands goods So the Campani subjected themselves to Rome for their own safetie and the Roman Honour and greatnesse both you see proved the object of this Government the Conquerour is the efficient and end of his Government by his contract with the people to limit his power with certain caution over them maketh them thereby a partiall end of his Supremacie it is false then that all Kings are erected for the people and not the people for them but that you may perceive the weaknesse of your inference I shall admit unto you that all Kings are for the people and not the people for them doth it follow therefore they are more noble than the King tutorage is instituted for pupillage not pupillage for it is the pupill therefore more noble than the tutour that hath power over him the tutour upon misusage of his power over the pupill I confesse is removed but by a positive Law made by those above him where that positive Law is by whom made appeareth not in any considerable Monarch of the world some but sew and inconsiderable Antiquitie make mention of Mezentius in Virgil seemed to be of such conditionall powers Ergo omnis furiis surrexit Etruria justis Regem ad supp●●sium prasenti morte reposcunt This pretended Nobi●itie we have quitted the people of by what is already said Next your Salus populi suprema lex commeth to be discussed if you mean by People a Common-wealth with all the parts of it I allow you that Salus populi suprema lex but if you understand by people the Subject contrà distinguished fom the King if you take people for the Members without the Head of a Societie your Salus populi is not Suprema lex if you take Members apart the worthier Member challengeth the first respect and consequently the King who is the Head of the Common-wealth claimeth in reason the preheminence of the inferior Members Art imitateth Nature and if the Reason of Nature giveth it so Reason of policie being grounded upon that of Nature cannot deny this prerogative and so much concerning that adjunct Rex singulis maior universis minor you understand maior minor in respect of Supremacie and by universis singulis simul sumptis all the Subjects and the representation of them the Parliaments for they you say are essentially the same pag. 5. He can command all singly but all ioyntly can command him This of all your opinions carrieth most absurditie with it The people you say give a power over them to the King and yet reserve it to themselves In the Oath of Supremacie you confesse the King supreme next under God but by this you introduce an interposition of the people the representative Bodie of the Kingdom the Parliament which is the Kingdom it selfe so you terme it pag. 5. do joyntly and universally in most acts preface the King with May it please your
most Excellent Majestie if it proceedeth from an inferiour to his superiour he cannot choose but take it as a jeare or at least a complement of ignorance mistakes and ignorance are incompatible with that infallibilitie you deifie the Parliament with the King in respect of the universi all the Subiects must of necessitie be considered as Head of them or a subordinate Member If a Head Supremacie must be incident to it the Head commandeth the parts to obey if a Member He must obey them to be cut off or left according to the Head the universi'es Judgement this is to meet more than halfe way with the Jesuits let not your popular Kinglinesse stoop to a dishonourable league with the children of Belial I shall not more enlarge my selfe to confute this absurditie though I conceive this enough to any unpreiudicated man Another hath gone before me upon this subiect who did very rationally discover the sillinesse nay contradiction of this paradox I shall passe over that of the holy Text Statuam supra me Samuel and urge some authoritie drawn from Heathens to shame this opinion from a Christian Head Marcus Aurelius Magistratus de privatis principes de magistratibus Deum de principibus judicare Hor. Regum timendorum in ipsos greges in ipsos reges imperium est Jovis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hom. Il. 1. Otanes in Heredotus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to do what he will and not bound to give an account to any Dion Penseensis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So to governe that he is not accomptable to another Dion lib. 5.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He is free having power over himselfe and Law so what he pleaseth he doth what displeaseth him he doth not this indefinitenesse of power few Kings at this day have time and experience upon occasionall reasons of State bring Kings to descend to limit their power to certain rules agreed upon by themselves and people and these rules have divers degrees of latitude which the positive Lawes of many Countries do manifest and distinguish but to whom the King is to yeild his accompt for breach of his Covenant we shall touch hereafter and here fall to discusse the last remarkable propertie your observation attributed to this supposed Ochlo-Supremacie The right of Conquest cannot be pleaded to acquit Princes of that which is due to the People as the Authours and ends of all power for meer force cannot alter the course of nature or frustrate the tenor of Law and if it could there were more reason why the People might justifie force to regain due libertie than the Prince might to subvert the same People are not the sole end or Authours of this power and if they were the nature of the thing granted may be absolutely transferred by them without expresse or tacit condition as is fully proved already then it followeth the right of Conquest may be pleaded to acquit Princes of that which is due you mean to acknowledge the people the end and Author of Government to acknowledge them the Authours of it with power to cancell the Authoritie given when they please to acknowledge a supremacie in the Prince derived from the People and neverthelesse still to reside in the People how then doth meer force alter the course of nature or frustrate the tenor of Law the Law of Nature you intend if a Prince gaineth a Principalitie from him upon whom it was absolutely conferred suppose from People the Conquerours Title standeth firme against all but the rightfull Owner and the People if they have a Title or interest in this power more than seldome conclude them for ever the examples we have already urged questionlesse force any impartiall Judgement to believe it The most considerable Monarchies and the greatest Govenments were Monarchies the present or past age presenteth to us were begun and setled by Conquests and that these Monarches descended to covenant with their Subjects to regulate their power by certain limitation desired and approved by the People hath more of the Princes bountie than obligation in it being a free donative bestowed upon the people and if the Covenant in part or in all is infringed or broken by the King what advantage the people hath by it passeth my understanding to apprehend a Title of re-entry cannot be reserved by them from whom no estate passed and if it did this reservation must be expressed or implied we have no expression of it urged by you and we are assured you cannot produce any popular Charter with this expresse reservation and if this is implied this impliednesse you must discover unto us either by reason or authoritie this Supremacie is of that indifferencie that may be transferred conditionally or absolutely and I demand of you whether a tacit condition is ever annexed naturally I mean by the Law of Nature to take off the Constitutions of municipall Lawes therein to a businesse conveyable with such indifferencie to affirme it destroyeth the nature of all absolute grants The Jewes claimed themselves free from all Pagan Jurisdiction and Caesar was their King by that right the sword did give him if that right was not warrantable the edicts grounded upon that right might iustly be disobeyed by the Jewes Christ preached obedience to them for he paid the generall taxation imposed by Caesar upon the Jewes and others in the Roman dition exhorted those to the same actuall obedience who came with an intent to entrap him where then is your frequent distinction All lawfull Powers come from God and are to be obeyed unlawfull are not of God and therefore not to be obeyed this power is unlawfull I am assured you are ready to averre in most respects in respect of title and in respect of the thing enioyned for a free Nation to pay a tribute to part with their goods to a Pagan to a stranger in Israel yet though the thing commanded though the title is by your own confession unlawfull it is enioyned not onely not to be resisted but unfainedly obeyed by the supreme Law-giver and the last Expositour of it our blessed Saviour The Christians of the first age sealed this obedience with their dearest bloud here then falleth your example of the Generalissimo pag. 4. to be considered his souldiers are exempted from his subiection if he turneth the Cannons upon his own people I grant it his Commission is derived from the King who giveth him power over his Souldiers to destroy or punish them onely and as often as they do transgresse positive edicts but they are not his Souldiers or his Subiects in so large a manner as they are to their King and if they were the one is entituled to them by God at least partially the other wholly by man Sir Edward Cooke a strong Champion for the English Libertie in his Institutions l. 1. fol 1. sayth that the King holdeth the Lands hehath as King immediately from God because he hath saith he no superiour but the Almightie Bracton is of the
the oppressed did encrease the oppressour in case he prevailed was Lord over his Captives lives and estates whose encrease and number encreased his Dominion swelling by degrees to the extent of a considerable Monarchie the oppressed whether one or more it began with few being not able to resist violence fled without question for succour to him whom they thought was able to defend them and that he made himselfe King over them seemeth to me more probable than that he was made by them for it will be admitted on both sides the oppressed hath power to subject himselfe and the protectour power to command it for the oppressed sheltreth himselfe probably under a stronger patronage than himselfe without question then the Patron would erect and enlarge his Dominion with more speed and will than the oppressed would undergo perpetuall slaverie the one being dissonant to Nature the other congruous to humane ambition hence we gather by our consideration of the probable actions of the first oppressours and oppressed Principalitie forced by oppression cannot claime in any likelihood its originall from the People and Dominion thus gained whilest it is not accompanied with tyrannie cannot be called unnaturall or to crosse the dictates of reason reason embraceth that which it forseth best to prevent violence and settle quietnesse and that which Nature delighteth most in can no way be held unnaturall witnesse the workes of it all woven in subjection and dependencie only oppression too frequent a companion of Soveraigntie in corrupted Nature is that which is contrariant to Nature and the chiefe cause of all contracts between King and people Lastly let us see what footing your popular Supremacie hath in the Law of Nations which is defined to be a humane voluntary Law and obligative among all or most Nations that Law Supremacie was acknowledged by all or most Nations to be the end and efficient of all powers is neither affirmed nor proved by you Their constant practice as we have touched already disallowing your opinion and if you joyne this issue with me you will never be able to give in evidence any convincing testimonie but we shall expect your palinodia with Tu vicisti me ego errorem orthodoxally concurring with our opinion that power is not originally inherent in the people de facto or by any Law The result of our discourse is that Monarchies and all other Govenments owe their originall to God who is the Donor efficient and ultimate end of them the people are by him made the instrument to convey this but not all people nor at all times The King and people are the subordinate end of the Government they live in Kings contracts with their Subjects in a Government gained by Conquest is more the Princes bounty than a discharge of his dutie and if otherwise Princes so settled cannot be removed or forcibly resisted by the people without traiterous Rebellion against God and his Deputie The residue of your discourse is either matter of fact admonitions or sarcasmes for the matter of fact as I do not disallow the truth of any of them so I do not much credit a single testimonie especially of him whose eyes are infected with 〈◊〉 Jandize sees the Kings actions all of one colour Sarcasme● are disallowed by the holy Text against the sacred person or a King Ne maledices principi in populo tuo Deuter. 22.28 or foment Rebellion with malitious paradoxes against Gods Annointed and if by a Pythagorean 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thersites liveth in your Antipathie to Regall Government most English hearts will with me returne unto you the checke Thersites had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 FINIS