Selected quad for the lemma: prince_n
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A48822
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The late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists
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Lloyd, William, 1627-1717.
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1673
(1673)
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Wing L2684; ESTC R30040
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38,961
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49
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King he would not meddle between them I leave that Question saith he to be decided by the two Supream Powers the Pope and the King when occasion shall be for it My Lords and Gentlemen had this been a new Sect not known before something perchance might have been doubted but to lay this at their doors that have govern'd the civilliz'd world is the miracle of miracles to us Sir we know not how to cure your wonder but by shewing you 't is unreasonable For you can it a Miracle that men judge according to good Evidence Who doubts less of the dangerousness of your Principles and Practices than they that have Read most and had most Experience of them We can give you no greater instance than in King James of blessed Memory who was no stranger to you either way and this is his judgment of you That as on the one part many honest â—en sâ—dâ—ced with some Errors of Poâ—ery may yet remain goâ—d and faitâ—ful Subjects So on the other part none of those that truly know and believe â—he whole grounds and School-conclusions of â—heir Doctrines can ever prove either goâ—d Christians or good Subjects But pray Sir when was it that you govern'd the civiliz'd World For the Eastern and Southern Churches never own'd your Government nor yet the Western while Learning flourished But when Barbarity had over-run it then Popery grew up by degrees and made it more Barbarous both in Ignorance and in Cruelty Then came in those Doctrines of Transubstantiation c. Then came in those Papal Usurpations c. which the Woâ—ld being again Civiliz'd hath partly thrown off and partly reduced into more tolerable terms Did Richard the First or Edward Long-shanks suspect his Catholicks that served in Palestine and make our Countryes Fame big in the Chronicle of all Ages or did they mistrust in their dangerous absence their Subjects at home because they were of the same profession could Edward the Third imagine those to be traiterous in their Doctrine that had that care and duty for their Prince as to make them by Statute guilty of Death in the highest Degree that had the least thought of ill against the King be pleased that Henry the Fifth be remembred also who did those Wonders of which the whole World does yet resound and certainly all History will agree in this that 't was Oldcastle he feared and not those that believed the Bishop of Rome to be Head of the Church The Reigns of those Kings whom you speak of were in those dark times when all Goodness declin'd and Corruptions were daily growing upon us Richard the First being told he had three wicked Daughters Pride Covetousness and Leachery said he could not Match them better than among your Templers Fathers and Friars Edward the First out-law'd the whole Clergy of this Realm for refusing to pay the King any Taxes because the Pope had forbidden them to do it And both those other Princes whom you mention made Laws against his Usurpations Edward the Third made a notable one of this kind by advice of that very Parliament in which he enacted his Laws against Treason And certainly Henry the Second was more vex'd with Becket than ever Henry V. feared Oldcastle We doubt not those Kings had many good Subjects and our King hath some better than you seem to be But they differed not in Religion as you do from ours And yet then your Faction was always encroaching where it was suffered and dangerous where it was opposed Did not your Pope force King John to do him homage for England Did he not wrestle with Edward I. for the Sovereignty of Scotland Hath he not often laid claim to the Kingdom of Ireland If the old Gentleman in a pet should go to turn out his Tenant what would our King have left when these are disposed of We will no longer trouble you with putting you in mind of any more of our mighty Kings who have been feared abroad and as safe at home as any since the Reformation of Religion We shall only add this That if Popery be the enslaving of Princes France still believes it self as absolute as Denmark or Sweden The French King will believe what he pleases but not all that you say of him For he cannot but know that the Pope gave away that Kingdom from some of his Predecessors and maintained War in it against his Grandfather till he brought him to his terms And why hath not His Holiness dealt so with him that now is partly for the sake of his Religion but chiefly for fear of a Storm lest his Coin should do that which Lewis the Twelfth's only threatned in the Inscription of it PERDAM BABYLONIS NOMEN Nor will ever the House of Austria abjure the Pope to secure themselves of the fidelity of their Subjects For the Austrian Princes that are so link'd to the Pope and whose Subjects are all Papists you suggest a mad way to secure themselves by firing their Countrey about their ears But what is this to England where since the exclusion of that trash which you call the Catholick Faith the King and the greatest part of his People are no Papists and have had so much trouble and danger for it from them that are May not Reason and Experience teach us to fear that having to do with the same kind of Adversaries we may still have some troublesome and dangerous Enemies No we have none to fear but our selves if we may believe you For say you We shall always acknowledge to the whole world that there have been as many brave English in this last Century as in any other place whatsoever yet since the exclusion of the Catholick Faith there hath been that committed by those who would fain be called Protestants that the wickedest Papist at no time dreamt of Pray Sir what may that be For you have murthered Kings and them of your own Religion four or five in this Realm since the Conquest not to speak of those Numbers elsewhere But that was in the growing Age of Popery In latter times have you so soon forgot our Kings Grand-Father Henry IV. murthered by Ravilliac or his Predecesfor Henry III. murthered by Fryar Clement and the People you have kill'd up by whole Families and Townships Witness England Ireland France Piedmont which you may hear of elsewhere These things have been done by Papists broad awake and what must that be which the wickedst of them never dreamt of 'T was never heard of before that an absolute Queen was condemned by Subjects and those styled her Peers or that a King was publickly Tryed and Executed by his own People and Servants First you tell us of the Queen of Scots being put to Death in Queen Elizabeths Reign It was by the same colour of right we suppose that Wallis suffered in Edward the First 's Reign namely of that Sovereignty that our Princes challenged over Scotland But Edward I. was
after they had vastly paid for their security and quiet We have answer'd your Instances of the French Protestants and the Dutch Papists and your unjust upbraiding us with the greatness of your Duty and with our want of compassion and pity And yet as if all these were Unanswerable you come over with them again and again These barbarous people you say sequester none for their Faith but pray what did you when you govern'd the Civiliz'd World you hang'd and burn'd men for no other cause but their Faith and this you did with abundance of Civility so it seems we may be worse than Barbarous and yet much better than you But that were little for our credit unless we had this to say more that not the worst of you suffers any otherwise than by known Laws or any more than is of pure Necessity For we hold it Necessary to maintain the Authority of the King and the Peace of the Nation If you call any thing Religion that is contrary to these must we therefore alter our Laws or ought you to mend your Religion You put the Effigies of Cromwel upon any thing that you would render odious as your Inquisition bedresses one with Pictures of Devils whom they are about to burn for his Religion For such Disguizes are apt to work much upon the weak judgements of the multitude But he must be very weak indeed that cannot perceive the wide Difference between the Edicts of Cromwel that were design'd to Ruine men for their Loyalty and those Laws that our Princes have made to Restrain them from Treason and Rebellion We have no other study but the glory of our Sovereign and just liberty of the Subjects Sir if we may judge by your Works there is nothing less studied in your Colledge Nor was it a mean Argument of our Duty when every Catholick Lord gave his voice for the Restauration of Bishops by which we could pretend no other advantage but that 26 Votes subsisting wholly by the Crown were added to the defence of Kingship and consequently a check to all Anarchy and Confusion This is no Argument of Your Duty for sure You are no Lord. Nor is it likely that these Lords follow'd Your direction in the doing of this Duty 'T is morally impossible but that we who approve of Monarchy in the Church must ever be fond of it in the State also If you mean this of Papists in General that which you call morally impossible is Experimentally True For in Venice Genoa Lucca and the Popish Cantons of Switzerland where they very well approve of Monarchy in the Church yet they are not fond of it in the State also But if you mean this of the Jesuitical Party then it may be true in this sense that you would have the Pope to be sole Monarch both in Spirituals and Temporals Yet this is a misfortune we now plainly feel that the longer the late Transgressors live the more forgotten are their Crimes whiles distance in time calls the faults of our Fathers to remembrance and buries our own Allegiance in eternal oblivion and forgetfulness We can now allow you to complain and commend your selves without Measure having prov'd already that you do it without cause My Lords and Gentlemen consider we beseech you the sad condition of the Irish Soldiers now in England the worst of which Nation could be but intentionally so wicked as the acted Villany of many English whom your admired Clemency pardoned Remember how they left the Spanish Service when they heard their King was in France and how they forsook the Employment of that unnatural Prince after he had committed the never to be forgotten Act of banishing his distressed Kinsman out of his Dominions These poor men left all again to bring their Monarch to his home and shall they then be forgotten by you or shall my Lord Douglas and his brave Scots be left to their shifts who scorned to receive wages of those who have declared War against England To swell up the Bill of the Merits of your Party you take in the Services of the Irish and Scottish Soldiers as if they were a part of the English Catholicks whom you profess to plead for in the Title of your Apology And that you may seem to have done this in kindness to Them and not to your Selves you exhort us to Consider them in such terms as if You were the first that had ever thought of them God forbid but they should be consider'd as they deserve and he is neither good Christian nor good Subject that would grudge to contribute his proportion toward it But you seem to have a farther drift in the mentioning of these Loyal Irish. For you immediately mingle them with the worst of that Nation namely with those infamous Butchers that in times of as great Peace and Liberty as ever that Nation enjoyed and in the Name of that gracious King under whom they enjoyed these cut the throats of above an hundred thousand of his Protestant Subjects of all Sexes and Ages It was so black a Villany that You the Apologist of such Actions knew not how to mention in its proper place viz. after the French Massacre because you had not wherewith to colour it And yet being conscious to your self that this lay as a blot upon your Cause you thought fit to place it among these brave Men as if their Names would mend the hue of an Action that will make the Names of all that had to do in it look black and detestable to Mankind throughout all Generations Nor do you deal much better with our Royallists themselves of whom you do not stick to affirm that in their admired Clemency and if this were true who would not admire it they pardon'd Many English whose Acted Villanies were so wicked that the worst of the Irish Nation could be but Intentionally so wicked in their Villanies How commonly is it said that the Oath of Renouncing their Religion is intended for these which will needs bring this loss to the King and you that either you will force all of our Faith to lay down their Arms though by experience of great Integrity and Worth or else if some few you retain they are such whom necessity hath made to swear against Conscience and who therefore will certainly betray you when a greater advantage shall be offered By this Test then you can have none but whom with Caution you ought to shun And thus must you drive away those who truly would serve you for had they the least thought of being false they would gladly take the advantage of gain and pay to deceive you You proceed concerning the Irish and Scottish Soldiers in these words How commonly is it said that the Oath of Renouncing their Religion is intended for them Pray Sir can you tell who are said to intend this For if they are such as have no Authority it is frivilous If they are such as have Authority it is false And