stiled Tyrant Traitor and Murderer The King being dead the same day they made an Act of Parliament that whereas several pretences might be made to the Crown c. It is Enacted by this present Parliament and Authority of the same That no person presume to declare proclaim or publish or any way promote Charles Stuart Son of Charles late King of England commonly called Prince of Wales or any other person to be King of England or Ireland c. B. Seeing the King was dead and his Successor barred by what declar'd Authority was the Peace maintain'd A. They had in their anger against the Lords formerly declar'd the Supream Power of the Nation to be in the House of Commons and now on February 5 th they vote the House of Lords to be useless and dangerous And thus the Kingdom is turned into a Democracie or rather an Oligarchie for presently they made an Act That none of those Members who were secluded for opposing the Vote of Non-Addresses should ever be re-admitted And these were commonly called the secluded Members and the rest were by some stiled a Parliament and by others the Rump I think you need not now have a Catalogue either of the Vices or of the Crimes or of the Follies of the greatest part of them that composed the Long Parliament than which greater cannot be in the World What greater Vices than Irreligion Hypocrisie Avarice and Cruelty which have appear'd so eminently in the Actions of Presbyterian Members and Presbyterian Ministers What greater Crimes than Blaspheming and Killing God's Anointed which was done by the hands of the Independents but by the folly and first Treason of the Presbyterians who betrayed and sold him to his Murderers Nor was it a little folly in the Lords not to see that by the taking away of the King's Power they lost withal their own Priviledges or to think themselves either for number or judgment any way a considerable assistance to the House of Commons And for those men who had skill in the Laws it was no great sign of understanding not to perceive that the Laws of the Land were made by the King to oblige his Subjects to Peace and Justice and not to oblige himself that made them And lastly and generally all men are fools which pull down any thing which does them good before they have set up something better in its place He that would set up Democracie with an Army should have an Army to maintain it but these men did it when those men had the Army that were resolv'd to pull it down To these Follies I might add the folly of those fine men which out of their reading of Tully Seneca or other Antimonarchiques think themselves sufficient Politiques and shew their discontents when they are not called to the management of the State and turn from one side to another upon every neglect they fancy from the King or his Enemies Behemoth PART IV. A. YOU have seen the Rump in possession as they believ'd of the Supream Power over the two Nations of England and Ireland and the Army their Servant though Cromwel thought otherwise serving them diligently for the advancement of his own purposes I am now therefore to shew you their Proceedings B. Tell me first how this kind of Government under the Rump or Relique of a House of Commons is to be called A. 'T is doubtless an Oligarchy for the Supream Authority must needs be in one man or in more If in one it is Monarchy the Rump therefore was no Monarchy If the Authority were in more than one it was in all or in fewer than all When in all it is Democracy for every man may enter into the Assembly which makes the Sovereign Court which they could not do here It is therefore manifest that the Authority was in a few and consequently the State was an Oligarchy B. Is it not impossible for a People to be well govern'd that are to obey more Masters than one A. Both the Rump and all other Sovereign Assemblies if they have but one Voice though they be many Men yet are they but one Person for contrary Commands cannot consist in one and the same Voice which is the Voice of the greatest part and therefore they might govern well enough if they had Honesty and Wit enough The first Act of the Rump was the Exclusion of those Members of the House of Commons which had been formerly kept out by violence for the procuring of an Ordinance for the King's Tryal for these men had appear'd against the Ordinance of Non-Addresses and therefore to be excluded because they might else be an Impediment to their future Designs B. Was it not rather because in the Authority of few they thought the fewer the better both in respect of their shares and also of a nearer approach in every one of them to the Dignity of a King A. Yes certainly that was their principal end B. When these were put out why did not the Counties and Burroughs choose others in their places A. They could not do that without order from the House After this they constituted a Councel of 40 persons which they termed a Councel of State whose Office was to execute what the Rump should command B. When there was neither King nor House of Lords they could not call themselves a Parliament for a Parliament is a Meeting of the King Lords and Commons to confer together about the businesses of the Common-wealth With whom did the Rump confer A. Men may give to their Assembly what name they please what signification soever such Name might formerly have had and the Rump took the Name of Parliament as most suitable to their purpose and such a Name as being venerable amongst the people for many hundred years had countenanced and sweetned Subsidies and other Levies of Money otherwise very unpleasant to the Subject They took also afterwards another name which was Custodes Libertatis Angliae which Titles they used only in their Writs issuing out of the Courts of Justice B. I do not see how a Subject that is tied to the Laws can have more liberty in one form of Government than another A. Howsoever to the people that understand by liberty nothing but leave to do what they list it was a Title not ingrateful Their next work was to set forth a publick Declaration That they were fully resolv'd to maintain the fundamental Laws of the Nation as to the Preservation of the Lives Liberties and Proprieties of the People B. What did they mean by the fundamental Laws of the Nation A. Nothing but to abuse the people for the only fundamental Law in every Common-wealth is To obey the Laws from time to time which he shall make to whom the People have given the Supream Power How likely then are they to uphold the fundamental Laws that had murder'd him who was by themselves so often acknowledged for their Lawful Sovereign Besides at the same time that this Declaration came
West the King had much the better of the Parliament for in the North at the very beginning of the year March 29 th the Earls of New-Castle and Cumberland defeated the Lord Fairfax who commanded in those parts for the Parliament at Bramham-Moore which made the Parliament to hasten the assistance of the Scots In June following the Earl of New-Castle routed Sir Thomas Fairfax Son to the Lord Fairfax upon Adderton-Heath and in pursuit of them to Bradford took and kill'd 2000 Men and the next day took the Town and 2000 Prisoners more Sir Thomas himself hardly escaping with all their Arms and Ammunition And besides this made the Lord Fairfax quit Halifax and Beverly Lastly Prince Rupert relieved Newark besieged by Sir John Meldrun for the Parliament with 7000 Men whereof 1000 were slain the rest upon Articles departed leaving behind them their Arms Bag and Baggage To ballance in part this success the Earl of Manchester whose Lieutenant-General was Oliver Cromwel got a Victory over the Royalists near Horncastle of whom he slew 400 took 800 Prisoners and 1000 Arms and presently after took and plundred the City of Lincoln In the West May 16 th Sir Ralph Hopton at Stratton in Devonshire had a Victory over the Parliamentarians wherein he took 1700 Prisoners 13 Brass Pieces of Ordnance and all their Ammunition which was 70 Barrels of Powder and their Magazine of their other Provisions in the Town Again at Landsdown between Sir Ralph Hopton and the Parliamentarians under Sir William Waller was fought a fierce Battle wherein the Victory was not very clear on either side saving that the Parliamentarians might seem to have the better because presently after Sir William Waller followed Sir Ralph Hopton to Devizes in Wiltshire though to his Cost for there he was overthrown as I have already told you After this the King in Person marched into the West and took Exeter Dorcester Barnstable and divers other places and had he not at his return besieged Glocester and thereby given the Parliament time for new Levies 't was thought by many he might have routed the House of Commons But the end of this year was more favourable to the Parliament for in January the Scots entred England and March the first crossed the Tyne and whilst the Earl of New-Castle was marching to them Sir Thomas Fairfax gathered together a considerable Party in York-shire and the Earl of Manchester from Lyn advanced towards York so that the Earl of New-Castle having two Armies of the Rebels behind him and another before him was forced to retreat to York which those three Armies joyning presently besieged and these are all the considerable Military Actions of the Year 1643. In the same Year the Parliament caused to be made a new Great Seal The Lord Keeper had carried the former Seal to Oxford Hereupon the King sent a Messenger to the Judges at Westminster to forbid them to make use of it This Messenger was taken and condemn'd at a Councel of War and hang'd for a Spy B. Is that the Law of War A. I know not but it seems when a Soldier comes into the Enemies Quarters without address or notice given to the Chief Commander that it is presumed he comes as a Spy The same Year when certain Gentlemen at London receiv'd a Commission of Array from the King to Levy Men for his Service in that City being discovered they were condemn'd and some of them executed This Case is not much unlike the former B. Was not the making of a new Great Seal a sufficient proof that the War was raised not to remove evil Councellors from the King but to remove the King himself from the Government What hope then could there be had in Messages and Treaties A. The Entrance of the Scots was a thing unexpected to the King who was made to believe by continual Letters from his Commissioner in Scotland Duke Hamilton that the Scotch never intended any Invasion The Duke being then at Oxford the King assur'd that the Scotch were now entred sent him Prisoner to Pendennis Castle in Cornwal In the beginning of the Year 1644. the Earl of New-Castle being as I told you besieged by the joynt Forces of the Scots the Earl of Manchester and Sir Thomas Fairfax the King sent Prince Rupert to relieve the Town and as soon as he could to give the Enemy battle Prince Rupert passing through Lancashire and by the way having stormed that seditious Town of Bolton and taken in Stockford and Leverpool came to York July the first and relieved it the Enemy being risen thence to a place called Marston-Moor about four Miles off and there was fought that unfortunate Battle which lost the King in a manner all the North. Prince Rupert returned by the way he came and the Earl of New-Castle to York and thence with some of his Officers over the Sea to Hamburgh The Honour of this Victory was attributed chiefly to Oliver Cromwel the Earl of Manchester Lieutenant-General The Parliamentarians returned from the Field to the Siege of York which not long after upon honourable Articles was surrendred not that they were favoured but because the Parliament employed not much time nor many Men in Sieges B. This was a great and sudden abatement of the King's prosperity A. It wat so but amends was made him for it within five or six weeks after For Sir William Waller after the loss of his Army at Roundway-down had another raised for him by the City of London who for the payment thereof imposed a weekly Tax of the value of one meals meat upon every Citizen This Army with that of the Earl of Essex intended to besiege Oxford which the King understanding sent the Queen into the West and marched himself towards Worcester This made them to divide again and the Earl to go into the West and Waller to pursue the King By this means as it fell out both their Armies were defeated for the King turned upon Waller routed him at Copredy-Bridge took his Train of Artillery and many Officers and then presently followed the Earl of Essex into Cornwal where he had him at such advantage that the Earl himself was fain to escape in a small Boat to Plimouth his Horse brake through the King's Quarters by night but the Infantry were all forced to lay down their Arms and upon condition never more to bear Arms against the King were permitted to depart In October following was fought a second and sharp Battle at Newbury for this Infantry making no Conscience of the Conditions made with the King being now come towards London as far as Basingstoke had Arms put again into their hands to whom some of the Train'd-Bands being added the Earl of Essex had suddenly so great an Army that he attempted the King again at Newbury And certainly had the better of the day but the night parting them had not a compleat Victory And it was observ'd here that no part of the Earl's Army fought so
keenly as they who had laid down their Arms in Cornwal These were the most important Fights in the Year 1644. and the King was yet as both himself and others thought in as good condition as the Parliament which despair'd of Victory by the Commanders they then used Therefore they voted a new modeling of the Army suspecting the Earl of Essex though I think wrongfully to be too much a Royalist for not having done so much as they looked for in this second Battle at Newbury The Earls of Essex and Manchester perceiving what they went about voluntarily laid down their Commissions and the House of Commons made an Ordinance That no Member of either House should enjoy any Office or Command Military or Civil with which oblique blow they shook off those that had hitherto served them too well and yet out of this Ordinance they excepted Oliver Cromwel in whose Conduct and Valor they had very great confidence which they would not have done if they had known him as well then as they did afterwards and made him Lieutenant-General to Sir Thomas Fairfax their new made General In the Commission to the Earl of Essex there was a Clause for preservation of his Majesties Person which in this new Commission was left out though the Parliament as well as the General were as yet Presbyterian B. It seems the Presbyterians also in order to their ends would fain have had the King murdered A. For my part I doubt it not For a Rightful King living an usurping Power can never be sufficiently secur'd In this same Year the Parliament put to death Sir John Hotham and his Son for tampering with the Earl of New-Castle about the Rendition of Hull and Sir Alexander Carew for endeavouring to deliver up Plimouth where he was Governour for the Parliament and the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury for nothing but to please the Scots For the general Article of going about to subvert the fundamental Laws of the Land was no Accusation but only foul words They then also voted down the Book of Common-Prayer and ordered the use of a Directory which had been newly composed by an Assembly of Presbyterian Ministers They were also then with much ado prevailed with for a Treaty with the King at Vxbridge where they remitted nothing of their former Demands The King had also at this time a Parliament at Oxford consisting of such discontented Members as had left the Houses at Westminster but few of them had changed their old Principles and therefore that Parliament was not much worth Nay rather because they endeavour'd nothing but Messages and Treaties that is to say defeating of the Soldiers hope of benefit by the War they were thought by most men to do the King more hurt than good The Year 1645. was to the King very unfortunate for by the loss of one great Battle he lost all he had formerly gotten and at length his life The new model'd Army after Consultation whether they should lay Siege to Oxford or march Westward to the relief of Taunton then besieged by the Lord Goring and defended by Blake famous afterward for his Actions at Sea resolved for Taunton leaving Cromwel to attend the motions of the King though not strong enough to hinder him The King upon this advantage drew his Forces and Artillery out of Oxford This made the Parliament to call back their General Fairfax and order him to besiege Oxford The King in the mean time relieved Chester which was besieged by Sir William Brereton and coming back took Leicester by force a Place of great Importance and well provided of Artillery and Provision Upon this Success it was generally thought that the King's Party was the stronger The King himself thought so and the Parliament in a manner confess'd the same by commanding Fairfax to rise from the Siege and endeavour to give the King battle for the Successes of the King and the Divisions and Treacheries growing now amongst themselves had driven them to rely upon the fortune of one day in which at Naseby the Kings Army was utterly overthrown and no hope left him to raise another Therefore after the Battle he went up and down doing the Parliament here and there some shrewd turns but never much encreasing his number Fairfax in the mean time first recovered Leicester and then marching into the West subdued it all except only a few Places forcing with much ado my Lord Hopton upon Honourable Conditions to disband his Army and with the Prince of Wales to pass over to Scilly whence not long after they went to Paris In April 1646. General Fairfax began to march back to Oxford In the mean time Rainsborough who besieged Woodstock had it surrendered The King therefore who was now also returned to Oxford from whence Woodstock is but six Miles not doubting but that he should there by Fairfax be besieged and having no Army to relieve him resolved to get away disguis'd to the Scotch Army about Newark and thither he came the fourth of May and the Scotch Army being upon remove homewards carried him with them to New-Castle whither he came May 13 th B. Why did the King trust himself with the Scots They were the first that rebell'd They were Presbyterians i. e. cruel besides they were indigent and consequently might be suspected would sell him to his Enemies for Money And lastly they were too weak to defend him or keep him in their Countrey A. What could he have done better for he had in the Winter before sent to the Parliament to get a Pass for the Duke of Richmond and others to bring them Propositions of Peace It was denied He sent again it was denied again Then he desir'd he might come to them in Person This also was denied He sent again and again to the same purpose but in stead of granting it they made an Ordinance That the Commanders of the Militia of London in case the King should attempt to come within the Line of Communication should raise what force they thought fit to suppress Tumults to apprehend such as came with him and to secure i. e. to imprison his Person from danger If the King had adventured to come and had been imprisoned What could the Parliament have done with him They had dethron'd him by their Votes and therefore could have no security whilst he liv'd though in prison It may be they would not have put him to death by a High Court of Justice publickly but secretly some other way B. He should have attempted to get beyond Sea A. That had been from Oxford very difficult Besides it was generally believ'd that the Scotch Army had promised him that not only his Majesty but also his Friends that should come with him should be in their Army safe not only for their Persons but also for their Honours and Consciences 'T is a pretty trick when the Army and the particular Soldiers of the Army are different things to make the Soldiers promise what the Army means not
6000 Horse for themselves To relieve Ireland the Rump had resolved to send eleven Regiments thither out of the Army in England This hap'ned well for Cromwel for the Levelling Soldiers which were in every Regiment many and in some the major part finding that in stead of dividing the Land at home they were to venture their Lives in Ireland flatly denied to go and one Regiment having cashier'd their Collonel about Salisbury was marching to joyn with three Regiments more of the same Resolution but both the General and Cromwel falling upon them at Burford utterly defeated them and soon after reduced the whole Army to their obedience And thus another of the Impediments to Cromwel's Advancement was soon removed This done they came to Oxford and thence to London and at Oxford both the General and Cromwel were made Doctors of the Civil Law and at London feasted and presented by the City B. Were they not first made Masters and then Doctors A. They had made themselves already Masters both of the Laws and Parliament The Army being now obedient the Rump sent over those eleven Regiments into Ireland under the Command of Dr. Cromwel intituled Governour of that Kingdom the Lord Fairfax being still General of all the Forces both here and there The Marquess now Duke of Ormond was the King's Lieutenant of Ireland and the Rebels had made a Confederacy amongst themselves and these Confederates had made a kind of League with the Lieutenant wherein they agreed upon liberty given them in the exercise of their Religion to be faithful to and assist the King To these also were joyned some Forces raised by the Earls of Castlehaven and Clanricard and my Lord Inchiquin so that they were the greatest united strength in the Island but there were amongst them a great many other Papists that would by no means subject themselves to Protestants and these were called the Nuntio's Party as the other were called the Confederate Party These Parties not agreeing and the Confederate Party having broken their Articles the Lord-Lieutenant seeing them ready to besiege him in Dublin and not able to defend it did to preserve the Place for the Protestants surrender it to the Parliament of England and came over to the King at that time when he was carried from place to place by the Army From England he went over to the Prince now King residing then at Paris But the Confederates affrighted with the News that the Rump was sending over an Army thither desir'd the Prince by Letters to send back my Lord of Ormond engaging themselves to submit absolutely to the King's Authority and to obey my Lord of Ormond as his Lieutenant And hereupon he was sent back this was about a year before the going over of Cromwel In which time by the Dissentions in Ireland between the Confederate Party and the Nuntio's Party and discontents about Command this otherwise sufficient power effected nothing and was at last defeated August the second by a Sally out of Dublin which they were besieging Within a few days after arrived Cromwel who with extraordinary diligence and horrid executions in less than a twelvemonth that he stayed there subdued in a manner the whole Nation having killed or exterminated a great part of them and leaving his Son-in-law Ireton to subdue the rest But Ireton dyed there before the business was quite done of the Plague This was one step more towards Cromwel's exaltation to the Throne B. What a miserable condition was Ireland reduced to by the Learning of the Roman as well as England was by the Learning of the Presbyterian Clergy A. In the latter end of the preceding year the King was come from Paris to the Hague and shortly after came thither from the Rump their Agent Dorislaus Doctor of the Civil Law who had been employed in the drawing up of the Charge against the late King but the first night he came as he was at Supper a Company of Cavaliers near a dozen entred his Chamber killed him and got away Not long after also their Agent at Madrid one Ascham one that had written in defence of his Masters was killed in the same manner About this time came out two Books one written by Salmasius a Presbyterian against the Murder of the King another written by Milton an English Independent in answer to it B. I have seen them both They are very good Latin both and hardly to be judged which is better and both very ill reasoning hardly to be judged which is worse like two Declamations Pro and Con made for exercise only in a Rhetorick School by one and the same Man So like is a Presbyterian to an Independent A. In this year the Rump did not much at home save that in the beginning they made England a Free State by an Act which runs thus Be it enacted and declar'd by this present Parliament and by the Authority thereof That the People of England and all the Dominions and Territories thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted made and declared a Common-wealth and Free State c. B. What did they mean by a Free State and Common-wealth Were the People no longer to be subject to Laws They could not mean that for the Parliament meant to govern them by their own Laws and punish such as broke them Did they mean that England should not be subject to any Forreign Kingdom or Common-wealth That needed not be enacted seeing there was no King nor People pretended to be their Masters What did they mean then A. They meant that neither this King nor any King nor any single person but only that they themselves would be the Peoples Masters and would have set it down in those plain words if the People could have been cozned with words intelligible as easily as with words not intelligible After this they gave one another Money and Estates out of the Lands and Goods of the Loyal Party They enacted also an Engagement to be taken by every man in these words You shall promise to be true and faithful to the Common-wealth of England as it is now established without King or House of Lords They banished also from within 20 Miles of London all the Royal Party forbidding also every one of them to depart more than five Miles from his Dwelling house B. They meant perhaps to have them ready if need were for a Massacre But what did the Scots in this time A. They were considering of the Officers of the Army which they were Levying for the King how they might exclude from Command all such as had loyally serv'd his Father and all Independents and all such as commanded in Duke Hamilton's Army and these were the main things that passed this year The Marquess of Montrosse that in the year 1645. had with a few men and in little time done things almost incredible against the late King's Enemies in Scotland landed now again in the beginning of the year 1650. in the North of Scotland with
commend either the Divinity or the Philosophy of those Heathen People but to shew only what the reputation of those Sciences can effect among the People For their Divinity was nothing but Idolatry and their Philosophy excepting the knowledge which the Aegyptian Priests and from them the Chaldaeans had gotten by long observation and study in Astronomy Geometry and Arithmetick very little and that in great part abused in Astrology and Fortune-telling Whereas the Divinity of the Clergy in this Nation considered apart from the mixture that has been introduced by the Church of Rome and in part retained here of the babling Philosophy of Aristotle and other Greeks that has no affinity with Religion and serves only to breed disaffection dissention and finally Sedition and Civil War as we have lately found by dear experience in the differences between the Presbyterians and Episcopals is the true Religion but for these differences both Parties as they came in power not only suppressed the Tenets of one another but also whatsoever Doctrine look'd with an ill aspect upon their Interest and consequently all true Philosophy especially Civil and Moral which can never appear propitious to ambition or to an exemption from their obedience due to the Sovereign Power After the King had accused the Lord Kimbolton a Member of the Lords House and Hollis Haslerigg Hampden Pim and Stroud five Members of the Lower House of High Treason and after the Parliament had voted out the Bishops from the House of Peers they pursued especially two things in their Petitions to his Majesty The one was That the King would declare who were the persons that advised him to go as he did to the Parliament House to apprehend them and that he would leave them to the Parliament to receive condign punishment and this they did to stick upon his Majesty the dishonour of deserting his Friends and betraying them to his Enemies The other was That he would allow them a Guard out of the City of London to be commanded by the Earl of Essex for which they pretended they could not else sit in safety which pretence was nothing but an upbraiding of his Majesty for coming to Parliament better accompanied than ordinary to seize the said five seditious Members B. I see no reason in petitioning for a Guard they should determine it to the City of London in particular and the Command by name to the Earl of Essex unless they meant the King should understand it for a Guard against himself A. Their meaning was that the King should understand it so and as I verily believe they meant he should take it for an affront and the King himself understanding it so denied to grant it though he were willing if they could not otherwise be satisfied to Command such a Guard to wait upon them as he would be responsible for to God Almighty Besides this the City of London petitioned the King put upon it no doubt by some Members of the Lower House to put the Tower of London into the Hands of persons of Trust meaning such as the Parliament should approve of and to appoint a Guard for the safety of his Majesty and the Parliament This Method of bringing Petitions in a Tumultuary manner by great multitudes of clamorous people was ordinary with the House of Commons whose Ambition could never have been served by way of prayer and request without extraordinary terror After the King had waved the prosecution of the five Members but denied to make known who had advised him to come in person to the House of Commons they question'd the Attorney-General who by the King's Command had exhibited the Articles against them and voted him a breaker of the Priviledge of Parliament and no doubt had made him feel their cruelty if he had not speedily fled the Land About the end of January they made an Order of both Houses of Parliament to prevent the going over of Popish Commanders into Ireland not so much fearing that as that by this the King himself choosing his Commanders for that Service might aid himself out of Ireland against the Parliament But this was no great matter in respect of a Petition they sent his Majesty about the same time that is to say about the 27 th or 28 th of January 1641. wherein they desir'd in effect the absolute Sovereignty of England though by the name of Sovereignty they challenged it not whilst the King was living For to the end that the fears and dangers of this Kingdom might be remov'd and the mischievous designs of those who are Enemies to the peace of it might be prevented they pray That his Majesty would be pleased to put forthwith first The Tower of London 2. All other Forts 3. The whole Militia of the Kingdom into the Hands of such persons as should be recommended to him by both the Houses of Parliament And this they stile a necessary Petition B. Were there really any such fears and dangers generally conceiv'd here or did there appear any Enemies at that time with such Designs as are mentioned in the Petition A. Yes But no other fear of danger but such as any discreet and honest man might justly have of the Designs of the Parliament it self who were the greatest Enemies to the peace of the Kingdom that could possibly be 'T is also worth observing that this Petition began with these words Most Gratious Sovereign So stupid they were as not to know that he that is Master of the Militia is Master of the Kingdom and consequently is in possession of a most absolute Sovereignty The King was now at Windsor to avoid the Tumults of the Common People before the Gates of White-hall together with their clamors and affronts there The 9 th of February after he came to Hampton-Court and thence he went to Dover with the Queen and the Princess of Orange his Daughter where the Queen with the Princess of Orange embarqued for Holland but the King returned to Greenwich whence he sent for the Prince of Wales and the Duke of York and so went with them towards York B. Did the Lords joyn with the Commons in this Petition for the Militia A. It appears so by the Title but I believe they durst not but do it The House of Commons took them but for a Cypher Men of Title only without real Power Perhaps also the most of them thought that the taking of the Militia from the King would be an addition to their own power but they were very much mistaken for the House of Commons never intended they should be sharers in it B. What answer made the King to this Petition A. That when he shall know the extent of Power which is intended to be established in those persons whom they desire to be the Commanders of the Militia in the several Counties and likewise to what time it shall be limited That no Power shall be executed by his Majesty alone without the advice of Parliament then he will declare that
that is Gods Vicegerent upon Earth and hath next under God the Authority of governing Christian Men and to observe for a Rule that Doctrine which in the Name of God he hath Commanded to be taught and thereby to examine and try out the truth of those Doctrines which pretended Prophets with miracle or without shall at any time advance c. And if he disavow them then no more to obey their Voice or if he Approve them then to obey them as Men to whom God hath given a part of the Spirit of their Soveraign Upon his Principles the case holdeth as well among Jews and Turks and Heathens as Christians Then he that Teacheth Transubstantiation in France is a true Prophet he that Teacheth it in England a false Prophet He that Blasphemeth Christ in Constantinople a true Prophet he that doth the same in Italy a false Prophet Then Samuel was a false Prophet to Contest with Saul a Soveraign Prophet So was the Man of God who submitted not to the more Divine and Prophetick Spirit of Jeroboam And Elijah for Reproving Ahab Then Michaiah had but his deserts to be clapt up in Prison and fed with Bread of Affliction and Water of Affliction for daring to Contradict God's Vice-gerent upon Earth And Jeremiah was justly thrown into a Dungeon for Prophecying against Zedekiah his Liege Lord. If his Principles were true it were strange indeed that none of all these Princes nor any other that ever was in the World should understand their own Priviledges And yet more strange that God Almighty should take the part of such Rebellious Prophets and justifie their Prophesies by the Event if it were true that none but the Soveraign in a Christian the Reason is the same for Jewish Commonwealth can take notice what is or what is not the Word of God T. H. To remove his Lordships doubt in the first place I confess there was true Prophesie and true Prophets in the Church of God from Abraham down to our Saviour the greatest Prophet of all and the last of the Old Testament and first of the New After our Saviour's time till the Death of St. John the Apostle there were true Prophets in the Church of Christ Prophets to whom God spake Supernaturally and Testified the truth of their Mission by Miracles Of those that in the Scripture are called Prophets without Miracles and for this cause only that they spake in the Name of God to Men and in the name of Men to God there are have been and shall be in the Church Innumerable Such a Prophet was his Lordship and such are all Pastors in the Christian Church But the Question here is of those Prophets that from the Mouth of God foretell things Future or do other Miracle Of this kind I deny there has been any since the Death of St. John the Evangelist If any Man find fault with this he ought to Name some Man or other whom we are bound to acknowledge that they have done a Miracle cast out a Devil or cured any Disease by the sole Invocation of the Divine Majesty We are not bound to trust to the Legend of the Roman Saints nor to the History written by Sulpitius of the Life of St. Martin or to any other Fables of the Roman Clergy nor to such things as were pretended to be done by some Divines here in the time of King James Secondly he says I make little difference between a Prophet and a Mad-man or Demoniack To which I say he accuses me falsly I say only thus much That I see nothing at all in the Scripture that requireth a belief that Demoniacks were any other thing than Madmen And this is also made very probable out of Scripture by a worthy Divine Mr. Meade But concerning Prophets I say only that the Jews both under the Old Testament and under the New took them to be all one with Mad-men and Demoniacks And prove it out of Scripture by many places both of the Old and New Testament Thirdly that the pretence or arrogating to ones self Divine Inspiration is argument enough to shew a Man is Mad is my opinion but his Lordship understands not Inspiration in the same sence that I do He understands it properly of God's breathing into a Man or pouring into him the Divine Substance or Divine Graces and in that sence he that arrogateth Inspiration into himself neither understands what he saith nor makes others to understand him which is properly Madness in some degree But I understand Inspiration in the Scripture Metaphorically for Gods guidance of our minds to Truth and Piety Fourthly whereas he says I make the pretence of Inspiration to be pernicious to Peace I answer that I think his Lordship was of my Opinion for he called those Men which in the late Civil War pretended the Spirit and New Light and to be the only faithful men Phanaticks for he called them in his Book and did call them in his Life time Phanaticks And what is a Phanatick but a Mad-man and what can be more pernicious to Peace than the Revelations that were by these Phanaticks pretended I do not say there were Doctrines of other Men not called Phanaticks as pernicious to Peace as theirs were and in great part a cause of those troubles Fifthly from that I make Prophetical Revelations subject to the examination of the Lawful Soveraign he inferreth that two Prophets prophecying the same thing at the same time in the Dominions of two different Princes the one shall be a true Prophet the other a false This consequence is not good for seeing they teach different Doctrines they cannot both of them confirm their Doctrine with Miracles But this I prove in the page 232 he citeth that whether either of their Doctrines shall be Taught Publickly or not 't is in the power of the Soveraign of the Place only to determine Nay I say now further if a Prophet come to any private Man in the Name of God that Man shall be Judge whether he be a true Prophet or not before he obey him See 1 John 4.1 Sixthly whereas he says that upon my grounds Christ was to be reputed a false Prophet every where because his Doctrine was received no where His Lordship had Read my Book more negligently than was fit for one that would confute it My ground is this that Christ in right of his Father was King of the Jews and consequently Supream Prophet and Judge of all Prophets What other Princes thought of his Prophesies is nothing to the purpose I never said that Princes can make Doctrines or Prophesies true or false but I say every Soveraign Prince has a right to prohibite the publick Teaching of them whether false or true But what an oversight is it in a Divine to say that Christ had the Approbation of no Soveraign Prince when he had the Approbation of God who was King of the Jews and Christ his Vice-Roy and the whole Scripture Written Joh. 20.31 to prove it
had in their sleep or in an extasie which in every true Prophet were Supernatural but in false Prophets were either natural or feigned and more likely to be false than true To say God hath spoken to him in a Dream is no more than to say he dreamed that God spake to him c. To say he hath seen a Vision or heard a Voice is to say That he hath dreamed between sleeping and waking So St. Peter's Holy Ghost is come to be their own imaginations which might be either feigned or mistaken or true As if the Holy Ghost did enter only at their eyes and at their ears not into their understandings nor into their minds Or as if the Holy Ghost did not seal unto their hearts the truth and assurance of their Prophesies Whether a new light be infused into their understandings or new graces be inspired into their heart they are wrought or caused or created immediately by the Holy Ghost And so are his imaginations if they be Supernatural T. H. For the places of my Leviathan he cites they are all as they stand both true and clearly proved the setting of them down by Fragments is no Refutation nor offers he any Argument against them His consequences are not deduced I never said that the Holy Ghost was an Imagination or a Dream or a Vision but that the Holy Ghost spake most often in the Scripture by Dreams and Visions supernatural The next words of his As if the Holy Ghost did enter only at their eyes and at their ears not into their understandings nor into their minds I let pass because I cannot understand them His last words Whether new light c. I understand and approve J. D. But he must needs fall into these absurdities who maketh but a jest of inspiration They who pretend Divine inspiration to be a supernatural entring of the Holy Ghost into a Man are as he thinks in a very dangerous Dilemma for if they worship not the Men whom they conceive to be inspired they fall into impiety and if they worship them they commit Idolatry So mistaking the Holy Ghost to be corporeal some thing that is blown into a Man and the Graces of the Holy Ghost to be corporeal Graces And the words inpoured or infused virtue and inblown or inspired virtue are as absurd and insignificant as a round Quadrangle He reckons it as a common error That faith and sanctity are not attained by study and reason but by supernatural inspiration or infusion And layeth this for a firm ground Faith and Sanctity are indeed not very frequent but yet they are not Miracles but brought to pass by Education Discipline Correction and other natural wayes I would see the greatest Pelagian of them all fly higher T. H. I make here no jest of Inspiration Seriously I say that in the proper signification of the words Inspiration and Infusion to say virtue is inspired or infused is as absurd as to say a Quadrangle is round But Metaphorically for Gods bestowing of Faith Grace or other Vertue those words are intelligible enough J. D. Why should he trouble himself about the Holy Spirit who acknowledgeth no Spirit but either a subtil fluid body or a Ghost or other Idol or Phantasm of the imagination who knoweth no inward Grace or intrinsecal Holyness Holy is a word which in Gods Kingdom answereth to that which men in their Kingdoms use to call publick or the Kings And again wheresoever the word Holy is taken properly there is still some thing signified of propriety gotten by consent His Holiness is a Relation not a Quality for inward sanctification or real infused holiness in respect whereof the third Person is called the Holy Ghost because he is not only holy in himself but also maketh us holy he is so great a stranger to it that he doth altogether deny it and disclaim it T. H. The word Holy I had defined in the words which his Lordship here sets down and by the use thereof in the Scripture made it manifest That that was the true signification of the word There is nothing in Learning more difficult than to determine the signification of words That difficulty excuses him He says that Holiness in my sence is a Relation not a Quality All the Learned agree that Quality is an Accident so that in attributing to God Holiness as a Quality he contradicts himself for he has in the beginning of this his discourse denyed and rightly that any Accident is in God saying whatsoever is in God is the Divine Substance He affirms also that to attribute any Accident to God is to deny the simplicity of the Divine Substance And thus his Lordship makes God as I do a Corporeal Spirit Both here and throughout he discovers so much ignorance as had he charged me with error only and not with Atheism I should not have thought it necessary to answer him J. D. We are taught in our Creed to believe the Catholick or Universal Church But T. H. teacheth us the contrary That if there be more Christian Churches than one all of them together are not one Church personally And more plainly Now if the whole number of Christians be not contained in one Common-wealth they are not one Person nor is there an Vniversal Church that hath any Authority over them And again The Vniversal Church is not one Person of which it can be said that it hath done or Decreed or Ordained or Excommunicated or Absolved This doth quite overthrow all the Authority of General Councils All other Men distinguish between the Church and the Common-wealth only T. H. maketh them to be one and the same thing The Common-wealth of Christian men and the Church of the same are altogether the same thing called by two names for two reasons For the matter of the Church and of the Common-wealth is the same namely the same Christian men and the Form is the same which consisteth in the lawful power of convocating them And hence he concludeth That every Christian Common-wealth is a Church endowed with all spiritual Authority And yet more fully The Church if it be one Person is the same thing with the Common-wealth of Christians called a Common-wealth because it consisteth of men united in one Person their Soveraign And a Church because it consisteth in Christian men united in one Christian Soveraign Upon which account there was no Christian Church in these Parts of the World for some hundreds of years after Christ because there was no Christian Soveraign T. A. For answer to this Period I say only this That taking the Church as I do in all those places for a company of Christian men on Earth incorporated into one Person that can speak command or do any act of a Person all that he citeth out of what I have written is true and that all private Conventicles though their belief be right are not properly called Churches and that there is not any one Universal Church here on Earth
which is a Person indued with Authority universal to govern all Christian men on Earth no more than there is one Universal Soveraign Prince or State on Earth that hath right to govern all Mankind I deny also that the whole Clergy of a Christian Kingdom or State being assembled are the representative of that Church further than the Civil Laws permits or can lawfully assemble themselves unless by the command or by the leave of the Soveraign Civil Power I say further that the denyal of this point tendeth in England towards the taking away of the Kings Supremacy in causes Ecclesiastical But his Lordship has not here denyed any thing of mine because he has done no more but set down my words He says further that this Doctrine destroyes the Authority of all General Councils which I confess Nor hath any General Council at this day in this Kingdom the force of a Law nor ever had but by the Authority of the King J. D. Neither is he more Orthodox concerning the Holy Scriptures Hitherto that is for the Books of Moses the power of making the Scripture Canonical was in the Civil Soveraign The like he saith of the Old Testament made Canonical by Esdras And of the New Testament That it was not the Apostles which made their own Writings Canonical but every Convert made them so to himself Yet with this restriction That until the Soveraign Ruler had prescribed them they were but Counsel and Advice which whether good or bad he that was counselled might without injustice refuse to observe and being contrary to the Laws established could not without injustice observe He maketh the Primitive Christians to have been in a pretty condition Certainly the Gospel was contrary to the Laws then established But most plainly The word of the Interpreter of the Scripture is the word of God And the same is the Interpreter of the Scripture and the Soveraign Judge of all Doctrines that is the Soveraign Magistrate to whose Authority we must stand no less than to theirs who at first did commend the Scripture to us for the Canon of Faith Thus if Christian Soveraigns of different Communications do clash one with another in their interpretations or misinterpretation of Scripture as they do daily then the word of God is contradictory to it self or that is the word of God in one Common-wealth which is the word of the Devil in another Common-wealth And the same thing may be true and not true at the same time Which is the peculiar priviledge of T.H. to make Contradictories to be true together T. H. There is no doubt but by what Authority the Scripture or any other Writing is made a Law by the same Authority the Scriptures are to be interpreted or else they are made Law in vain But to obey is one thing to believe is another which distinction perhaps his Lordship never heard of To obey is to do or forbear as one is commanded and depends on the Will but to believe depends not on the Will but on the providence and guidance of our hearts that are in the hands of God Almighty Laws only required obedience Belief requires Teachers and Arguments drawn either from Reason or from some thing already believed Where there is no reason for our Belief there is no reason we should believe The reason why men believe is drawn from the Authority of those men whom we have no just cause to mistrust that is of such men to whom no profit accrues by their deceiving us and of such men as never used to lye or else from the Authority of such men whose Promises Threats and Affirmations we have seen confirmed by God with Miracles If it be not from the Kings Authority that the Scripture is Law what other Authority makes it Law Here some man being of his Lordships judgment will perhaps laugh and say 't is the Authority of God that makes them Law I grant that But my question is on what Authority they believe that God is the Author of them Here his Lordship would have been at a Nonplus and turning round would have said the Authority of the Scripture makes good that God is their Author If it be said we are to believe the Scripture upon the Authority of the Universal Church why are not the Books we call Apocrypha the Word of God as well as the rest If this Authority be in the Church of England then it is not any other than the Authority of the Head of the Church which is the King For without the Head the Church is mute the Authority therefore is in the King which is all that I contended for in this point As to the Laws of the Gentiles concerning Religion in the Primitive times of the Church I confess they were contrary to Christian Faith But none of their Laws nor Terrors nor a mans own Will are able to take away Faith though they can compel to an external obedience and though I may blame the Ethnick Princes for compelling men to speak what they thought not yet I absolve not all those that have had the Power in Christian Churches from the same fault For I believe since the time of the first four General Councels there have been more Christians burnt and killed in the Christian Church by Ecclesiastical Authority than by the Heathen Emperors Laws for Religion only without Sedition All that the Bishop does in this Argument is but a heaving at the Kings Supremacy Oh but says he if two Kings interpret a place of Scripture in contrary sences it will follow that both sences are true It does not follow For the interpretation though it be made by just Authority must not therefore always be true If the Doctrine in the one sence be necessary to Salvation then they that hold the other must dye in their sins and be Damned But if the Doctrine in neither sence be necessary to Salvation then all is well except perhaps that they will call one another Atheists and fight about it J. D. All the power vertue use and efficacy which he ascribeth to the Holy Sacraments is to be signs or commemorations As for any sealing or confirming or conferring of Grace he acknowledgeth nothing The same he saith particularly of Baptism Upon which grounds a Cardinals red Hat or a Serjeant at Arms his Mace may be called Sacraments as well as Baptism or the holy Eucharist if they be only signs and commemorations of a benefit If he except that Baptism and the Eucharist are of Divine institution But a Cardinals red Hat or a Serjeant at Arms his Mace are not He saith truly but nothing to his advantage or purpose seeing he deriveth all the Authority of the Word and Sacraments in respect of Subjects and all our obligation to them from the Authority of the Soveraign Magistrate without which these words repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus are but Counsel no Command And so a Serjeant at Arms his Mace and Baptism proceed both from