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A40488 A friendly debate between Dr. Kingsman, a dissatisfied clergy-man, and Gratianus Trimmer, a neighbour minister concerning the late thanksgiving-day, the Prince's desent [sic] into England, the nobility and gentries joining with him, the acts of the honourable convention, the nature of our English government, the secret league with France, the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, &c. : with some considerations on Bishop Sanderson and Dr. Falkner about monarchy, oaths, &c. ... / by a minister of the Church of England. Kingsman, Dr.; Minister of the Church of England.; Trimmer, Gratianus. 1689 (1689) Wing F2218; ESTC R18348 69,303 83

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Morning And now Doctor I come to the end of what at our first meeting we fell upon As I intended by the help of God to observe the Thanksgiving Febr. 14. so I have And cannot Express the Sense I have of the many Causes of Thanksgiving Behold and wonder at what God hath wrought Salvation belongeth unto the Lord his Blessing is upon his People The Lord hath answered before we called Isa 65.24 Who hath heard such a thing who hath seen such a thing Shall the Earth be made to bring forth in one day or shall a Nation be born at Once for as soon as Zion travelled she brought forth Children Isa 66.8 There are three admirable Providences to be told our Children that the Generations to come may praise the Lord. 1. The Greatness of our Deliverance from the Sins the Curse the Plague of Popery the deliverance of our Bodies from the Sword of our Wives and Virgins from unnatural beastliness of Papists who put Nature to shame As in Savoy 1686. and yet their Nature cannot blush 2. The Deliverance without Blood. 3. The Suddainess of it Providence dispatched his marvellous Work. 4. The immediateness of God's hand 2. After a Deliverance we are come to a Settlement the most hopeful this Nation ever saw in many respects it exceeds all that ever went before it as the Deliverance also doth 3. That God should make way for it by taking away the Spirit of the late King and coveying him away without reproach to our Religion 4. The Lord wonderfully united the Spirit of the Nation in the choice of Representatives and united their Counsels without tedious distracting Debates to fill the Throne to clear and recover their own despised and almost extinguished Rights and to do Right to our most Gracious King and Queen and the Royal Line upon better terms than they were in before 5. God hath given a King and Queen of our own Religion and that the true rarely set off with an ilustrious Exemplariness Zeal and Moderation 6. I rejoice for the joy of the persecuted desolated Protestant Churches abroad and strength added to the Protestant Princes 7. I rejoice for the Consolation which this wonderful Providence hath brought to Protestants abroad that have suffered Persecution and that were in danger to be swallowed up and that the Prosperity and Peace of England is like to add Courage and Strength to Protestant Princes and States every-where 8. I rejoice that Popery is put to shame and confusion in our Land. I wish the Simple and Deluded may see the Hand of God which is lifted up and not love Darkness rather than Light. The Lord hath broken the Head of Popish Counsels disclosed their Secrets and made them fall in their own Devices 9. I hope the Lord will finish his work and having brought to the Birth will also bring forth Shall I cause to bring forth and shut the Womb saith the Lord. Isa 66.9 10. I hope to see Protestants united more in the profession of Faith Love Worship Communion and Peace that there be no Colour from Laws to scatter the Flocks put Lights under Bushels and make them a Prey to the worst of Men. 11. I hope to see with admiration Behold a King shall reign in Righteousness and Princes shall rule in Judgment that the Work of Righteousness shall be Peace and the Effect of Righteousness Quietness and Assurance for ever Isa 32.1 17 c. 12. I hope Our gracious King Queen and wise Parliament who are taking off Arbitrary Yokes apace will take off another Yoke of Arbitrariness in Ecclesiastical Courts I do not winch because I am gall'd but rejoice because I am delivered and preserved There is a great sense among us of the Arbitrariness of Canonical Obedience which was extended even to Votes for Parliament-Men and answering Questions as in the High Commission proceeding upon Arbitrary Canons not confirmed by the King's Proclamation Arbitrary Articles of Visitation Arbitrary Oaths exacted of Church-wardens and their Legal Duties never that I could hear of explained unto them And calling for Subscriptions to Addresses and Abhorrences to serve the Designs of Papists against us and deceive the King with Promises 13. I rejoice that I am in my place to serve God out of which I was preparing my self to be thrown out for not reading the King's Declaration as it was a means to advance Popery and not out of a grudg at the Indulgence of Protestants which had been the means of our ruin if God had not given him an unexpected Diversion to look to his own Kingdom and found him other Work. Every day will I praise the Lord and call upon mine own Soul to bless the Lord and not to forget all his Benefits and I will by the Grace of God stir up others with an O that Men would praise the Lord c. And as I have since I was capable kept the 5th of November so now while I can upon another Reason the most seasonable peaceable happy entrance of our now more Illustrious that the then Illustrious Prince of Orange as a Day which the Lord hath made My Joys may be grievous to you which I am sorry for and therefore I will pray that we may not fail as Hezekiah did to return thanks according to the Mercy received There are thousands and ten thousands of Mercies and Blessings in this marvellous Deliverance and Settlement of the Kingdom nothing can blast this hopeful Spring and silence the singing of Birds but our continuance in Prodigious Profaneness and Debauchery brought in at the very Heels of the joyful Restoration of the King in 1660. If the sense of Mercy doth but run through our Hearts and oblige us to think as well of the Practice of Religion as it is described Tit. 2.11 12 13. and other places as we think ill of Popery all your new Sect of Grumblers can only give us some exercise of our Charity and Moderation you and all your Party under your antiquated and self-deposed King with the hopeful succession of the Prince of Wales and his Brother in the little Belly of the Queen cannot hurt us Therefore Good Doctor grumble not against God our Laws our King and Queen and Parliament the hoped-for settlement of the Church upon the Word of God maintained by unity of Spirit in the Bond of Peace and commended in a Better Act than our last of Uniformity or else we shall go as far back as that Act cast the happiness of this Church and Kingdom For from that day that Act took place it hath been ill with the Church of God and Christianity in England and a private Apartment was made for Popery under the Church Walls K. Are you a Conformist and say so T. You have called us Trimmers and our Conformity hath been in a great part from the Principle of Passive Obedience and Peace and Love to Souls resolving to go as far with you as we could with a good Conscience And since our
the Souls of many that are liable to Temptation to yield to its Charms or be exposed to its Furies You must choose either Holy-Water or Blood. Had he been driven away by the Flaming Sword of Rebellious Subjects you might have some pretence for your Murmurings but not daring to trust his own great Force nor the Men of his own Religion and having no Confidence in God whose tremendous Providence hath conveyed him away I think you have no cause to wish for him again but to think that well done which God hath done K. But can you think the Nation innocent in this matter And if our Deliverance from some Mischiefs be considerable yet if the People have sinned we have small cause to be thankful And seeing I have no Legal Command from my Ordinary and that Ash-Wednesday is the Day before I will keep that and hope no notice will be taken for my not observing the other T. And why not both I am sure you have not been so nice about other Thanksgivings K. I have no Book T. Our Prayers for the Queen and Prince of Wales were commonly called Modest Prayers Then you want a Book of Prayers modestly penn'd Will you do nothing from your Heart no more than you will do without Order by the Apparitor on your own Head But will you read the Litany and Denunciations sicut olim as you are commanded to do on Ash-Wednesday or will you omit them K. I will do as the Law requires and according to my Declaration of Assent to all and every thing contained in c. T. Then you will still pray for the King tho he deserted the Kingdom not as much as leaving a Commission for Administrators in his Absence then you will pray that he may be kept and preserved in the true worshipping of God which he hath not done since he became a Papist then you will pray for the Queen and Prince of Wales still right or wrong and that God would give the King the victory over all his Enemies What without fighting And who are they Are they reputed his Enemies or his Friends who sign'd the Association at Guild-Hall and do you pray he may be in a condition to fight against them and overcome them too And who will you mean when you denounce him Cursed who removeth his Neighbours Landmark The King who turn'd out the President and Fellows of Magdalen-Colledg which is a little more than gaining a little Ground by removing the Land-marks or the Convention who labour to find out the ancient Bounds and Foundations remov'd by Arbitrary Goverment for my part I deal truly with you I cannot pray every Petition contained in the Book of Common-Prayer notwithstanding Assent declared for tho there be no Alterations made in the Book there is an Alteration made in Things and Persons that I look upon my self as so far discharged from the Obligation of the Act except I should offer that to God which I believe he will not accept K. Then you will presume to make publick Prayers of your own without Authority T. When this was written I had no Book but rather than loose a Shilling for a Book not worth Two Pence after the Rate of Paper and Print so basely Printed that it would even blind a pair of Specticles to read it I had one sent me the Evening before in which there was no Order for a Sermon nor Homily against Rebellion And therefore they who preached not that Day may plead their Excuse for none was required Why not pray without a Book as well as preach without One on such an Occasion as this especially If Superiors neglect their Duty I know no reason why I should neglect mine The Scripture is as full of matter for Prayer and Praise as for Preaching And altho God hath by his Providence as much as blotted out several parts of the Common-Prayer and transported the King yet that Command and Act of his Will continues still in force Let Prayers and Supplications and giving of Thanks be made for all men for Kings and such as are in Authority There are some still in Authority and therefore I am obliged to pray for them and to give Thanks And tho I cannot make Versicles for a Dialogue between the Minister and Clerk there are Psalms and Chapters as proper for this service as for other and I hope more proper than those for the Prince of Wales and the Queen's being with Child and I might name more than those And I hope to find matter enough for a large Thanksgiving K. But where will you find Precedents in Scripture for the Insurrections of Subjects against their Lawful Prince and Soveraign or for a Son and Nephew to invade the Kingdom of his Father and Uncle or for a Convention of Subjects to depose their natural Lord and King T. I might ask you as many Questions on the other side But not to tire my self with talk to Day I will come home to the Present Case and lay all these things together The Case openedt 1. The King being a Zealous Papist wishing all his Subjects were of his Religion in the Declaration of Indulgence and governed by the Jesuits it is impossible for him to keep his Word or Declarations made to his Protestant Subjects any further than shall serve their Designs and Interests 2. How the King kept his Promises to govern by Law to invade no Mans Property to maintain the Church of England ask the Judges enquire at Cambridge and Oxford and the late Chancellor and Ecclesiastical Commissioners 3. Popery was disseminated all over the Land Mass-Houses publick Papists put in Offices Schools opened and taught by Jesuits c. contrary to Law. 4. The King declared Himself absolute having an inherent power in Himself to dispence with Statutes Another Argument that there was no hold to be taken of his Word or Promises For if he do not keep the Statutes made by his Royal Assent and his Predecessors how can we expect firmness in verbal Promises and Declarations And if his Power be Arbitrary and absolute he may change and recede from his Word as often as he doth change his Mind and Councils King James II. chang'd the Government 5. He changed the form of Government and Constitution from an English Monarchy and Independent from an imperial Crown to a subjection to the Pope and See of Rome And whether He be any longer King of England than he is Supreme in his Dominions and that in Opposition to the Bishop of Rome by Name I dare refer it to your self He hath lost his legal claim to the Monarchy of the Kings of England by Subjection to the Roman Pontiff K. But tho he has yet the Order and Authority of Kings being of the Law of Nature He is Sovereign still tho he hath degraded Himself from the dignity and Supremacy of the King of England by the Law of England T. Sir You are mistaken in that Point for you
there were Streams of penitent Tears ruuning from our Eyes and more fervant Prayers of the Righteous sent up to Heaven But notwithstanding the great Scarcity of both I think it a great Duty to give thanks to God for delivering us from the Hands of our Enemies K. You do not know but the King's Heart might be changed He did a great deal in a little time for the Satisfaction of the People in restoring Charters and declaring he would Call a Parliament and offered Pardons to his Enemies T. We know these Acts of Grace and when they were made publick Of these see the Sence of the Prince of Orange in his Declaration What if the Counsellors and Tools advised these Acts to Cast us into a sleep and to gain time for French Preparations You may see what the Nation did and what Methods of Proceedings were used What Methods were used for our Preservation 1. Many of our Peers and Gentlemen of Honour and Interest first represented the State of the Kingdom to the Heirs Expectant of the Crown and therein declared That their Hignesses if no Prince be born to the King have an unquestionable Right to defend the Legal Monarchy Rege etiam renitente That the People of England have an Unquestionable Right to seek Assistance from their Royal Highnesses Our Case stated on the Nations part That the Ancient Kings of England acknowledged the Peoples Right to save their Free Government c. See the Memorial p. 26 c. If the Prince and Princess have Right to defend Note this and the People of England a Right to seek that Defence wherein doth the Iniquity of both or of either appear especially considering the Nominal Prince of Wales being not an undoubted Heir Our Case stated on the Prince of Orange's part 2. The Prince and Princess timely dealt with the King in a most dutiful manner proposing Expedients to compose and settle the Nation as appears by Pensioner Fagel's Letter and Vindication But the Contrivers of our Ruine both in Soul and Body proceeding to obstruct all healing Methods His Highness put forth his pious and just Declaration of his Reasons and Intentions to come over into England The Reflections upon it are very wordy and weak See the Declaration 3. If the Prince of Orange had no Interest by proximity of Blood to seek the Preservation of the Church and Kingdom Why might not he come over to us as righteously to deliver us as Our former Kings and Queen Elizabeth have assisted forreign Protestant States and Sufferers by Money and Arms 4. The Miseries of the Protestants in France and Savoy and the Dangers which threatned all Protestant Kingdoms and Sates by the Power and Blood-thirstiness of France and the Popish Confederates awakened Protestant Kings and Princes to prevent the Desosolation of their Countries and Religion to enter into a League and to begin with England to rescue it from its growing Perils and to settle the State of it as knowing what an Influence its Preservation or Destruction would have upon Countries of the same Profession And his Highness the Prince being so deeply engaged in that League he must as a Christian prefer the Glory of Christ before all Obligations of Relation as a Son and a Nephew Yet still performing all the Duties of that Relation in which he hath not been wanting as far as is consistent with the Common Cause and Interest And respect to the Common Protestant Interest and Engagement prevail'd with his Highness the Prince of Denmark to go over to the Prince of Orange as he professeth in his Letter to the King. 5. The Prince in his Declaration invited All Degrees and Orders of Men in the Kingdom to come in and joyn with him to promote his Ends in getting a Free Parliament to which he refers Himself and the Settlement of Church and State. Should the Nobility and Gentry look on and see him ready to Fight in their Defence and give him no Assistance K. Yes certainly for they ought not to assist an Invader against their King. T. The Case stated resteth upon this as one chief Pillar If they have right to relate their Grievances and Pressures and to call him to their Rescue there being no other way left for them and if he have Right and Interest in England which he cannot give up for lost and if that which he desires is neither Crown nor Conquest but the Preservation of the Government in a lawful Parliamentary-way then the Invasion is not the Invasion of an Enemy but the coming in of a Saviour to deliver us That the People of England have right to defend their Government they prove in the Memorial quoted before K. But do not you know that Private Persons are not fit Judges whether their Present Case be such in which they may lawfully resist or no T. I remember something to that purpose in Dr. Falkner Christian Loyalty Book 2. p. 365. p. 373. and he quotes the more Corrected Judgment of Grotius differing from what he had written in his younger Time upon Mat. 26. But Are the wisest Noblemen Gentry and Lawyers of the Land unfit to Judg of this Case Doth their incapacity to judge rise from the Privacy of their Condition or what else A private Man well studied in the Laws and Constitution is as able to judge when that is Uiolated as more Publick Persons and a good Lawyer in his Study knows the Law as well as many a Judg upon the Bench. Besides I distinguish between a particular private Man The Nobles and Gentry who appeared in this Action not meer private Men. or more sustaining private Injuries or Oppressions or some lesser Bodies and Corporations and the Community of the whole Kingdom They who have appeared for the Prince of Orange are by far the Majority of the whole Kingdom and men of as great Understandings as any of those who drove them to this Course This Resistance was not in a private Cause but the Essentials of the Government and Concern of the Kingdom And therefore what the Doctor saith and quoteth out of Grotius is nothing to our Case And for a fuller understanding of our Case I pray Sir remember what the King did Our Case opened on the Kings ●… part The Prince and Majority of the Kingdom declare for a Free Parliament for the Protestant Religion and for the Laws and Government by Law. Can any King that is a King by Law sworn and obliged by Promises to govern by Law refuse to grant what the Kingdom desires But He on the Contrary 1. Prepares a Royal Navy increaseth his standing Army calling in many thousands of Popish Irish and of Scots tho not all Papists yet as he thought for his purpose 2. Tho he declared he would summon a free Parliament yet he sent out but few Writs which came to nothing 3. He prepares to defend his Cause and to oppose the Prince and Kingdom by the Sword Whereas if
second Letter to Le Cheese We have here a mighty Work upon our Hands no less than the Conversion of the three Kingdoms and by that perhaps the subduing of a Pestilent Heresy which has domineer'd over a great part of the Northern World a long time there were never such hopes of Success since the Death of Queen Mary as now in our days when God hath given us a Prince who is become may I say a Miracle zealous of being the Author and Instrument of so glorious a Work Collect. of Letters p. 118. Now ordinary Reason will hence advance the probability of all kind of mutual Engagements between these two Princes to promote the Catholick Interest by Dragooning us either to turn Papists or turn out of the Land. Pray Sir can you disprove the Story as you call it of the French League either by detecting the Imposture or by demonstrating the unreasonableness of the thing Or is it sufficient that their being both entirely devoted to the innocent and harmless Society of the Jesuits to unite them in the same Heavenly and Spiritual Interest and Designs as would make such a League incredible and unsupposable 3. Thè Story of the Prince of Wales whose Right to the Crown is so clear to some of your Seminaries that it is as certain as an Article of Faith is not laid asleep nor past away in silence We have read the Observations made upon him in the Memorial and upon the Queen's Progress with him We give credit to the Letter of Father Petre to La Chese As to the Queen's being with Child that Great Concern goes on as well as we could with c. you will agree with me most Reverend Father that we have done a great thing by introducing Mrs. Cellier to the Queen this Woman is totally devoted to our Society A rare Midwife of a Plot to dig a Baby out of a Meal-Tub The zealous Catholicks lay already two to one that it will be a Prince he must be a Prince or as good never be with Child But that which is pretty indeed in the Reverend Father is That the King 's Secret Council think good to wait for the Queen's Delivery that they may see a Successor who may have need of the whole Protection of the most Christian King to support him maintain his Rights Now what was to become of the King of England Whither was he to be sent after the Birth of this young Successor the Question may be asked of the Friends of that little Prince for was King James to live or not If he was to live notwithstanding the having of a Prince to succeed him then why was not he able to support and protect his Successor and his Rights Or was the King of England to be disabled from supporting his Successor The Princes of Wales were never wont to have Guardians and Protectors out of the English Dominions But this Unfortunate Prince would need Protection from a Foreign Monarch and his whole Protection A skirt of his Protection was not large enough he must have the whole Campaign Cloke of his Protection to Cover him and to support Him and maintain his Rights Why so Well it seems Father Petre was a Fortuneteller of the young friendless injured Prince that he must be carried to France when young and tender and stand in need of the whole Protection of a Great King. 4. You say That which they call the Original Contract was designed for no more than a Popular Flourish Now Doctor how doth this appear that it was no more than a Popular Flourish what a kindness was the King's withdrawing to the Gentlemen of the Convention and Men of their Sentiments had it not been for that they would have had no stress for their opinion of the Vacancy For the French League was but a Story the Prince of Wales was but a Story which they cared not how soon was laid asleep or put to silence And what they call an Original Contract was but a popular Flourish Now Doctor because your Author is a Man that leads because he writes and against a whole Convention also I will make some further discovery of this Contract which others of the same Genius make so light of And here I will shew what some of Eminency of the Church of England have written of it These Men will not allow the Kingdom of England to be as much as a Contracted Matron but a Prostitute to Absolute Arbitrary Power Of the Original Contract between the King and People of England I have noted before how Bishop Saunderson doth labour to manifest the Absurdity if not Impossibility of any Contract between King and People But if the People had at any time any Power of Electing their King it is rational enough to conceive that they made Conditions and Terms and would never have consented to their Hurt and Injury There are several ways of acquiring Soveraign Power Dr. Fern whose appearance was eminent against Defensive Arms doth yet acknowledg It is probable indeed that Kings at first were by choice Here as Elsewhere The Resolving of Conscience p. 19. This I speak not as if the Kings of this Land might rule as Conquerors God forbid The King is bound unto all those Laws Grants and Priviledges and that by Oath Whereas Our King is King before he comes to the Coronation which is sooner or later at his pleasure Then it seems Security must be given to the People but always to be in due time in regard of the security his People receive by his taking the Oath and he again mutually from them in which performance there is something like a Covenant all but Forfeiture The King there promises and binds himself by Oath to performance Could they shew us in this Covenant such an Agreement between the King and his People that in case he will not discharge his Trust that it shall be lawful for the States of the Kingdom by Arms to resist and provide for the Safety thereof it were something p. 21. Here is a Covenant and Contract confirmed by Oath which is enough to qualify the Spirits of them who deride or expose it And though there be no Forfeiture mentioned it doth not follow none can be incurred There is a mutual Benevolence Hope and Confidence in the Marriage of the sponsus Regni to the Kingdom it doth not therefore follow the Marriage-Bond cannot be violated Suppose all that swear Fealty to the King do break Faith with him do they not forfeit their Priviledges and Honours yet where is it exprest in the Contract or Capitulation A Government founded upon Contract and Agreement is not so strange a thing in it self as some Men make it to be when there are many Learned Writers that affirm there can be no just and righteous Government but by Election and Consent and that without it Government could not subsist And others hold though Election and Consent be not absolutely necessary to a just Government they
say it is to a stable and permanent Government Arnisaeus Relectionis politicae L. 2. c. 2. Sect. 6. And de facto William the First who did not found his Authority upon Conquest after he had wasted Sussex Kent and other Counties until he came to Boarcham where Arch-Bishop Aldred and Wulstan of Worcester Clito Edgar the Earles Edwin and Morcar and Noblemen out of London with many others came to Him and giving Hostages they yielded to Him and swore Allegiance Cum quibus et ipse foedus pepigit With whom He himself made a Covenant Floren Wigorniensis And when he and his Normans put the State into a Convulsion by their Oppressions several of the Saxon chief Nobility took Arms to defend their Ancient Laws as having learned of their Ancestors aut Libertatem aut Mortem Liberty or Death Argumentum Antinormanicum p. 26. * There is another notable Compact related to be made between William and Stigand A. B. of Canterbury Egelsine Abbot of St. Austins Canterb. and the Kentish men who armed themselves against William and being ready to engage a Parley is desired The Ambassadors of the Kentish-men were commanded to tell William to this purpose Most Renowned Duke The Men of Kent do meet thee they will be thy Friends and will obey thy Power if thou grant their just Demands as those that contend to preserve the Liberty received from their Ancestors and their Country Laws and Customs and that will not be brought under Servitude which they have not tried and been used to nor bear new Laws They can bear Royal Power but cannot bear Domination Receive the Kentish-men with undiminished and untouched Liberty reserved Manners and Vsages their Ancient Laws receive them not as Servants but Subjects well affected to thee But if thou strive to take away their Liberty and Immunity of their Laws thou shalt take away their Lives at once for they chuse rather to fight at the hazard of Battel with thee and to fall in the Field under the power of certain Enemies than in the Court under uncertain Laws For although the other English can suffer Servitude yet Liberty is the Property of the Men of Kent The King disturbed with this Speech and other Difficulties took Counsel for many Reasons non necessitate magis quàm voluntate he granted that they should live after their Ancient Laws Itaque inter Gulielmum Cantios initum foedus fuit obsides utrinque dat Antiquitas Britannicae p. 108. Here 's an Original Contract with the Arch-bishop and Abbot and Kingdom of Kent If you say It was lawful for them to resist an Invader and a Conqueror Consider he claimed to the Kingdom by an Hereditary Right as Kinsman and Heir by Gift to Edward the Confessor as right Heir to the Crown by Succession as his Successors and Sons also all●dg who were chosen to the Crown out of the order of natural descent See several Charters quoted to prove this Argumentum Antinormanicum p. 19 c. And whereas it were to be wish'd that there had been a continual intire Confidence preserved between Kings and their Subjects and that there had never been any Forfeiture made or Question about it yet there are forfeitures too often made and though a People should not be hasty to take the Advantage of the King's Weakness yet there 's a time when they ought to shew that there is and must be a Power in a Common-wealth to save it self from Ruin. And they cannot answer it to God themsel●es nor Posterity if they shall suffer a King despirited and disabled by God to recover Strength when they saw how it had been imploy'd if Divine Providence had not disarm'd Him. 5. The Gentleman goes on to teach us that a Parliament and a Convention are two different things the latter for want of the King's Writs and Concurrence having no share in the Legislative Power This is as much as to say What have the Convention to do with the Affairs that lay before them Well let it be granted that there is a difference between the Convention and the Parliament I do humbly conceive with reverence to those Awful Assemblies That the Convention being called in an Extraordinary Case for an Extraordinary Work were trusted with an Extraordinary Great Power by the Community of England The Real Majesty is in the Community of England The Form of Government was dissolved It is true the Community was not reduced to the Original and pure state of Liberty to frame a new Structure new from the Foundation because there were Heirs in pretence in view and in expectation And therefore they were obliged in Conscience to do right to them that had the most undoubted Right But the Settlement of the Government in the Person or Persons was in them They were the Highest Power to determine the Pretence of the Nominal Prince of Wales The Order Limitation and Settlement of the Succession was in them And though they had not the Formality of a Parliament because of the Defect of a King they wanted not an Original Power to give under God and for God Life and Form to the Government it self The Legislative Power is the King the House of Lords and House of Commons The Business of the Convention was not to make particular Laws and they did not exercise a Legislative Power but they were put upon it how to re-establish the Government as near as possibly they could according to the Ancient Constitution And in that respect being to constitute and declare the Persons who were to have a part in the regular enacting of Laws they had not a less but a greater Power than is ordinarily exerted in Parliament They were not advising how to draw up a new Form or Constitution there were Ancient Land-marks to bound them and the Model of the Building was in their Eye and there were Ancient Laws and Customs both Common and Statute in Force but there wanted an Administrator a Soveraign to look to the Administration and executive Part. And the ordinary Methods were broken by another who was obliged to observe them They had as exact a respect to the Ancient Methods as possibly could be had in observing the number of Representatives and giving notice to the Electors to chuse their Representatives and Trustees And they had the Authority of Laws and Necessity both for what they did The Laws by virtue of which they acted were Customs immemorial to meet and consult about the Publick Good the Good of the Whole being the great End of Society and Government The Law of Nature was sufficient to call them together And the urgent Law of Necessity laid upon them this Duty which was not of their own making as is visible to all clear-sighted Men. As great things have been done in the Days of our Fathers out of the ordinary Rules that were never thought to be ill done Instance is given not in Hen. the 7th but in the Nomination and Proclamation of King James the
should be born so long as he lived so as whatsoever Property any other person had or could have in any part of the World they held it all of Him. So after the Flood whatsoever Property or Share in the Government over any part of the World any of his Sons had they had it by his sole Allotment and Authority without waiting for Election or Consent or entring into any Articles or Capitulations with the People that were to be governed by them c. T. Is the Argument Good from Adam before the Fall to the Government after the Fall Is the Argument good from Adam the Common Father or Noah a Common Father to the State of the World distinguished and divided in the several Kingdoms and Territories Was Adam's Monarchy Hereditary to his eldest Son next in succession Did Cain succeed him in the Universal Monarchy Or did Cain forfeit Did Adam allot him the land of Nod and so it descended to the next Brother To be brief with you 1. When Soveraign Princes are Nature Fathers and give Portions to their Subject as to their Children then let them be as Great in their Dominions as Adam or as Noah was provided they be kind and righteous as they were 2. The Law then in Being and Force was the Law of Nature which established Property in the 8th Commandment And Judgment which is a Branch of Government or of Civil Power doth suppose Property as its Object or Matter about which it is conversant And there could be no actual Exercise of the judicial Port of Power and Government but there was a Property to be judged of K. How far the King of England is supreme But you cannot but say that the King of England is the onely supreme Governour and Monarch and if a Monarch the Supremacy is in Him alone for a Co-ordination of Power and a mixt Monarchy are absurd contradictory Notions As you may see in the Reverend Bishop Sanderson Sect 14. Preface We are bound by our Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance to bear Faith and true Allegiance to the King and his Heirs and Successors and to assist and defend all Jurisdictions c. Granted or belonging to him c. I pray read the Oaths And then we are bound by the Oath of the 14. of Charles the second not to take Arms against the King c. upon any pretence whatsoever c. And therefore surely such Actions and Alterations as we know and see of late are utterly unlawful and therefore I cannot joyn in the Thanksgiving for our Deliverance c. T. Sir You put me upon a necessity of speaking what otherwise I should be as unwilling to discourse of as any other Man. But conceiving my self obliged in Conscience and Religion to acknowledge our wonderful Deliverance I shall lay before you what I have learnt in these great matters I know Sir. O. Bridgman did urge the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy upon the Regicides and all that took Arms against the King in the Trial of Mr. Scroop pag. 67 68. What is the Oath of Allegiance is it not that you will defend the King his Crown c. against all Persons whatsoever It was not onely against the Pope Vnder favour that word Or otherwise doth there signify some other way or means not named by which the Pope might act against the King. as some would have it but the word is or Otherwise They broke the Oath of Supremacy which was that the King was the supreme Governour c. There is saith he a difference between some Crowns and Imperial Crowns An Imperial Crown is that which was not to be touched by any person We do not speak of the Absolute Power of the King pag. 68. The Reverend Bishop Sanderson builds his strong Tower for defence of the King's Soveraignty upon the words of the Oath of Supremacy That the King's Highness is the onely Supreme Governour of this Realm Sect. 14. The quickest way to bring our discourse to an issue is to lay down what I think very considerable in this matter 1. We acknowledge the King or Queen of England to be the onely supreme Governour within his Dominions But the Kings and Queens of England had no more Power given or attributed to them by these Oaths or the Statutes enjoyning them than they had before these Declarations So Queen Elizabeth declared in her Injunction 1559. Note this An Admonition to simple men deceived by the malitious in the Collection of Doctor Sparrow pag. 81. The Queens Majesty c. would that all her loving Subjects though understand that nothing was is or shall be meant or intended by the same Oath to have any other Duty Allegiance or Bond required by the same Oath than was acknowledged to be due to the most Noble Kings of famous Memory King Henry the 8th or Edward the 6. For certainly her Majesty neither doth nor ever will challenge any Authority than what was challenedg and lately used by the said Noble Kings of famous Memory King Henry the 8th or Edward the 6th which is and was of ancient time due to the Imperial Crown of this Realm That is under God to have the Soveraignty and Rule over all manner of Persons born within these her Realms Dominions and Countreys of what estate either Ecclesiastical or Temporal soever they be so as no other forreign Power shall or ought to have any Superiority over them 2. You heard what Sir Orlando Bridgman understood by that Great Title of Imperial Crown Now take notice of another Interpretation of it from Queen Elizabeth in that Admonition now quoted Imperial Crown That under God and not under the Pope or any foreign Prince or Potentate so as no other foreign Power shall or ought to have any Superiority over them And it is rational to conceive that such as the King or Monarch is So saith Lord Keeper Bridgman in the Book quoted such is his Crown The King of England is not an Absolute King but in contradistinction to all foreign Princes and Powers none of whom hath any power over him he is subject to none therefore the Title of Imperial Crown adds nothing of Real power to the King but a glorious Epithet signifying that he holds not his Crown of any other forreign Prince or Power So is the Monarchy of England described by that famous Counsellour Sir Thomas Smith At the last the Realm of England grew into one Monarchy Neither were any one of those Kings neither he who first had all took any Investiture at the hand of the Emperor of Rome or of any other superior or foreign Prince but held of God to Himself and by his Sword his People and Crown acknowledging no Prince on Earth his superior and so it is kept and holden at this day De Repub. Anglorum c. 9 Sect. I. And when our Writers speak of the Independency of the Kings of England in opposition to the Pope and his Usurpation they speak of
Eyes have been opened to see the tendency of Affairs we can think no less and have good Authority for what we say Godliness and Honesty with Quietness and Peace is the desire of our Souls And Doctor do not Grumble Let not your Eye be Evil because God is Good. What! hate Popery and oppose the King's Declaration and now hanker after your King whom you cannot have without Popery if he were not shut out K. Conscience and Allegiance T. It is well the power of Conscience is at least acknowledged Conscience was Fanaticism a great while and a religious Pretence for Rebellion and the worst of Actions I wish you a well-setled enlightned Conscience And for your Allegiance pay it where it is now due by God's Providence to a Wonder by the Laws of the Land we have God the Laws King Queen and Parliament for us Come down down Doctor soft and fair there are a pair of Stairs from your coming down from you Pinacles who had never got up had you not been better at flying up than orderly Motions and leisurely Ascents Take your share of a happy Peace and be glad you are not forced by an Act of Parliament to renounce your Allegiance to your deceased King as the Non-Cons were to renounce the Covenant Preach Peace and perswade the Gentlemen of the Swear and the Sword to be thankful they came off so well and were not kill'd and damn'd at on Day according to their Atheistical Wishes for God was against them the Prince of Orange was Ordained of God to be Victor and now King. But Sir I perceive your Colour comes I will therefore dismiss you calmly Live in Peace and Love Do the Work and Will of God and so farewel The God of Peace go with you An After-Debate Of the Original Contract P. W. Convention And no Allegiance due to the late King. K. I Am come again to visit you and to shew you something that 's worth your reading and consideration too There are some things for you to chew upon T. You are very welcome to me at all times who desire a fairness and friendship with you and if there be a scuffle of Notions let us labour to prevent the drawing of Blood and bringing in Popery and Misery about our Ears There are a new Sect of Seminaries sculking and haunting up and down sowing their Discontents and ill Nature under the Name of Loyalty and Religion but the best is their Notions are like heated Corn chitted in their Brains that I hope they will not grow nor come up so tall as to hide a Rebel in Well but Sir what have you to shew me K. Here 's and ingenious Paper called The Desertion Discuss'd in a Letter to a Country Gentleman T. I will peruse it and deal with it as I find it or as I am able And though you think me prepossest yet I am as willing to sind out Truth as any of you can be Let us read him together and be pleased to insist upon what you think most material in him K. I think it is all material and well penn'd T. If it be so material I were best leave him to be handled by the Author of the Enquiry into the Present State of Affairs whom he takes into his hands to discuss And if the Bones of his Subject will bear Discussion without breaking or disjointing he will sleep the better in a bad Lodging If any thing be left out by me think not the Paper unanswerable for I do not intend a Discussion of him 1. How saith the Gentleman to him Can the Seat of Government be empty while the King who all grant had an unquestionable Title is still living and his Absence forced and involuntary Here are Suppositions imply'd that should first be proved As 1. A King once supposed to have a good Title must needs have it during Life 2. That during a King's natural Life the Throne cannot be empty 3. Tho it is true in a sense that the King's Absence be Involuntary so in a sense it was Voluntary It was a mixt Action and the Reasons for his leaving the Kingdom are not altogether unknown and whatever the Necessity was his Counsellors and Friends the Papists with his own Affection to that Interest which God hath crost for the present and such as you acting contrary to God are active to restore brought upon him In Answer to the Gentleman's Question drawn up by himself he saith The Gentlemen of the Convention who declare a Vacancy in the Government lay the main stress of their Opinion upon his Majesty's withdrawing himself For now especially since the Story of the French League and the Business of the Prince of Wales are past over in silence most Men believe that the pretended Breach of that which they call the Original Contract was design'd for no more than a Popular Flourish I confess to you Doctor these Lines are very material of each branch I 'le crop a little 1. The Noblemen and Gentlemen of the Convention who had the Personal Majesty lodged in them in a high degree and that as they were a Convention entrusted to act for the Community of England did doubtless lay a great stress for their Judgment upon that which is more than the Opinion of the Gentlemen as he calls them But the foregoing Actions of the King terminated in that first Act had their share in influencing that Publick Reason so to judg The Story of the French League is past in silence No Sir that which you and your Fellow-Rockers of the soft-headed Disciples call a Story is not past away in silence yet A Story you 'd make it as if all this Action was begotten by a Story or two or three Fictions I shall not without Authority relate what I have heard of that Story But I build my belief of a designed Mischief upon Publick Evidence and undeniable by adding a little use of Reason to it My Evidence riseth out of Coleman's Letters Letter to Sir W. Throckmorton Feb. 1. 74 / 5. For you well know that when the Duke the late King James come to be Master of our Affairs Joint Interest with France the King of France will have reason to promise himself all things that he can desire For according to the Mind of the Duke the Interests of the King of England the King of France and his own are so close bound up together that it is impossible to separate them the one from the other without Ruin to all three but being joined they must notwithstanding all opposition become invincible Letter to Mons le Cheese The King of France esteemed his Interest and the Interest of his R. H. to be the same p. 110. and that if his Royal Highness would endeavour to dissolve the Parliament his Majesty King of France would assist him with his Power and Purse to have such a new One as would be for their purpose His Royal Highness was convinced their Interests were both one A
the Oaths since the late King did manifestly act contrary to the Duty of his Place But yet the words of the Oath are expresly made to him believing him to be the Lawful and Rightful King of this Realm Now he is Lawful King who hath a Lawful Right and is no Pretender or Usurper or he is Lawful King who is no Tyrant in Exercise nor Usurper of Power above or contrary to Law. How any Man could understandingly swear his belief of his being Lawful King without such a distinction I cannot conceive And then it is to be considered that he is the lawful King who governs according to Law or at least not contrary to Law in the main and then he being the King recognized by the Subject who swears Allegiance to him if he prove quite contrary How can he who own'd him under a true Notion of him be bound to him when he is corrupted from what he was taken to be He took him for his King who is King by Law and doth not bend himself to overthrow it but when he ceaseth to govern his Subjects as Subjects he disclaims the governing them as Subjects and his own being their King saith Dr. Falkner Chr. Loyalty l. 2. c. 5. p. 544 c. The Relation of an English Subject is to an English not an Absolute King. If one term of the Relation be chang'd or ceased the Obligation of the other Relate and Correlate ceaseth Cessante personâ relata naturali cessat obligatio personalis Cessante relatione vel personâ Civili cessat obligatio talis quâ talis The natural Father dying the relation to him is at an end and the Obligation to Duty is dissolved The moral and political Relation and political Person ceasing to be what he ought to be the Relation and Obligation dies A King is not bound to govern or protect Traitors Nor are Subjects bound to Allegiance and Obedience to him that is not their King. See the Christian Directory Cases Obligation of Vows and Promises p. 703. And Mr. Lawson is short and positive The personal Majesty of a King with us requires subjection whilst he lives and governeth according to Law but upon his Death or Tyranny in Exercise or acting to the Dissolution of the Fundamental Constitution he ceaseth to be a Soveraign and the obligation as to Him ceaseth p. 214. Polit. Sacra Civilis In a word so many ways as Majesty and Soveraignty may be lost so many ways this Obligation may be lost Ibid. 2. All that concerns the Papal pretended Powers of doing Evil in the Oath remains true for ever The only Clause in the Oath in which any can think himself concerned is the Promise I will bear faith and true Allegiance to his Majesty his Heirs and Successors and Him and them will defend to the uttermost of my Power against all Conspiracies and attempts whatsoever The resolution of this Doubt depends upon the former Plots and treacherous Conspiracies are practices unworthy of Christians against the worst of Tyrants The ways of defence must be lawful But who was that King which you promised to defend and to bear Faith to Was it not to your Lawful King in the lawful Exercise of his Authority If you were a Servant to his Arbitrary Will if you had defended him and served him to persecute the true Religion or to remove and corrupt it or to set up Arbitrary Power you were a Traitor against God and your Country Your Oath was a Bond of Iniquity and ought now to be repented of Had you fought for him when he was gone to the Camp to fight against the Kingdom you had been a Traitor to England for whose good only Kings are ordained 3. If you are ensnared with the Opinion of the pretended Prince of Wales's being the next Heir you are to be pitied if you are sincere in your Opinion The great Convention the highest Judges in the Kingdom saw the Depositions in favour of his Royal Birth and Natural Descent and what swaying Presumptions and Reasons are produced and publish'd against him and have rejected him and judged him no lawful Heir And if you had much more to confirm your Opinion of his Birth you ought to acquiesce in their Highest Judgment and Determination And if you believe never so honourably of the late King that he would not impose upon us yet he might be imposed upon But when we consider how Popish Principles corrupt Nature you have no reason to be confident And if you are not forestall'd and partial you have much more reason to believe that our Gracious King and Queen who express uprightness in all that they speak or do that they would abhor to deprive a Right Heir of the Priviledg of his Birth to gain a Kingdom too soon when they were no further distant from it and stood in so little need of it 4. But then if you insist upon it Why did not the undoubted Heir succeed in Order This is one of our marvelous Blessings and we have cause to acknowledg the Wisdom and Goodness of our Queen that she consented to and approved of the Method and Order of the Settlement of the Crown by a wise Act of the Convention to cut off Debates and to shorten the way to a happy Settlement If her Majesty be well pleased and her Royal Highness in a better state than she was in before what Cause have you to be dissatisfied There is no such exactness and niceness to be found in most of our Successions in the Throne Peter Martyr was a very wise and learned good Man and his words are worth our following Nihil anxiè disputandum est quo jure quarè injuriâ Principes adepti sunt suam potestatem Illud potiùs agendum est ut Magistratus praesentes revereamur in Rom. c. 13. v. 1. Let us not anxiously dispute Princes Titles let us rather mind this that we honour and fear the present Magistrates I do not speak this as if I doubted the lawfulness of the present happy happy Settlement but for your sake King James the First spake it I am since come to that Knowledg that an Act of Parliament can do greater Wonders than unite Scotland to England by the Name of Great Britain And that old wise Man Treasurer Burleigh was wont to say He knew not what an Act of Parliament can do in England Speech in Star-Chamber And some great Lawyers in a Parliament of Queen Elizabeth Mr. Yelverton afterwards Speaker and Judg said That to say the Parliament had no Power to determine of the Crown was High Treason And Mr. Mounson said It were horrible to say that the Parliament had no Authority to determine of the Crown Sir S. Dew's Journal p. 164 176. And what cannot a Convention a Representative of the Community do and what Parliament will not confirm what they have done And what good Man will be so cloudy and sullen as not to rejoice for what is done to the unspeakable Comfort of
rest of the Sheets the Author did not see therefore the Reader is entreated to correct or pardon the Printer's Faults therein Books lately Printed and Sold by Jonathan Robinson at the Golden Lion in St. Pauls Church-yard relating to the great Revolutions and Affairs in England 1688 1689. ☞ AN Account of the Reasons of the Nobility and Gentry's Invitation of the Prince of Orange into England Being a Memorial from the English Protestants concerning their Grievances with a large Account of the Birth of the Prince of Wales presented to their Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Orange A Collection of Political and Historical Papers relating to the Present Juncture of Affairs in England in Ten Parts which will be Continued from Time to Time according as Matter occurs A Brief History of the Succession of the Crown of England c. Collected out of the Records and the most Authentick Historians written for the Satisfaction of the Nation Wonderful Predections of Nostredamus Grebner David Pareus and Antonius Torquatus wherein the Grandeur of their Present Majesties the Happiness of England and Downfall of France and Rome are plainly Delineated With a large Preface shewing That the Crown of England has not been obscurely foretold to their Majesties William the 3d and Queen Mary late Prince and Princess of Orange and that the People of this Ancient Monarchy have duly contributed thereunto in the present Assembly of Lords and Commons notwithstanding the Objections of Men of different Extremes A Seasonable Discourse wherein is examined what is lawful during the Confusions and Revolutions of Government especially in the Case of a King deserting his Kingdoms and how far a Man may lawfully conform to the Powers and Commands of those who with Various Successes hold Kingdoms Whether it be lawful 1 In Paying Taxes 2 In personal Service 3 In taking of Oaths 4 In giving up himself to a final Allegiance A Seasonable Treatise wherein is proved That King William commonly called the Conqueror did not get the Imperial Crown of England by the Sword but by the Election and Consent of the People To whom he swore to observe the Original Contract between King and People An Answer to a Paper Intituled The Desertion Discussed being a Vindication of the Proceedings of the late Honourable Convention in their Filling up the Throne with King William and Queen Mary An Exact Collection of the Debates of the House of Commons particularly such as relate to the Bill of Exclusion a Popish Successor c. held at Westminster Octob. 21. 1680 Prorogued the 10th and Dissolved the 18th of January following With the Debates of the House of Commons at Oxford Assembled March. 21. 1680. Also a Just and Modest Vindication of the Proceedings of the said Parliaments Julian's Arts to Undermine and Extirpate Christianity c. By Samuel Johnson The Impression of which Book was made in the Year 1683 and has ever since lain buried under the Ruins of all those English Rights which it endeavoured to defend but by the Auspicious and Happy Arrival of the Prince of Orange both They and It have obtained a Resurrection Dr. Gilbert Burnet now Bishop of Salisbury his Tracts in Two Vollumes in which are contained several Things relating to the Affairs of England The Mystery of Iniquity working in the Dividing of Protestants in order to the subverting of Religion and our Laws for al most the space of thirty Years last past plainly laid open With some Advices to Protestants of all Perswasions in the present Juncture of our Affairs To which is added A Specimen of a Bill for uniting of Protestants Liberty of Conscience now highly necessary for England humbly represented to this present Parliament An Enquiry into and Detection of the Barbarous Murther of the late Earl of Essex now under consideration of a Committee of the House of Lords Or a Vindication of that Noble Person from the Guilt and Infamy of having destroyed himself An Account of the Trial of Mr. Papillon To which is added The Matter of Fact in the chusing of Sheriffs in Sir John Moor's Year now under the consideration of the Committee for Grievances A Collection of strange Predictions of Mr. J. P. for the Years 1687 and 1688 about K. James the Second Prince of Wales and the scampering away of many great Ministers of State. Arguments against the Dispensing Power in Answer to L. C. J. Herbert The Royal Cards Being a lively Representation of the late Popish and Tyrannical Designs and of the wonderful Deliverance of this Kingdom from the same by the glorious Expedition of William Henry Prince of Orange now King of England whom God long preserve in curious Copper Plates Price ●… s. a Pack