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A67646 A defence of the innocency of the lives, practice, and doctrine of the English preists [sic], Jesuits, and papists relating to the crimes of murther and treason, vnjustly charged on them by E.C. in his narrative wherein are discouered his grosse mistakes, his wilfull falsifications, his shamefull falshoodes, and his groundlesse vniust accusations of the English papists. Warner, John, 1628-1692. 1680 (1680) Wing W908A; ESTC R221952 27,739 33

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God his Prince haue furnisht him with for the defence of his ship althô by that meanes some Algerins be killed their souls lost for Christ's law would be intolerable to Absolute Powers if it enjoined the contrary if I say you answer so you say as much as Soto says Not to tire my Reader with vnecessary matter repetitions I omit what you cite out of Nauar Grassü Bonacina One word suffices for all either they truly approue of Murther or they do not If they do we disown them so you haue no right to charge their sentiments on vs. CHAPTER 4. Protestants both teach practice sedition Rebellion IT is with the greatest reluctance imaginable that I rake in this kennel whereof the fumes stench is able to infect a People so susceptible of the infection as English are Jt were to be wisht these seditious maximes had neuer appeared in the world or that vpon their first appearance that seuerity had been vsed on them which the Roman Senat practised on Monsters that they had been transported out of the fight of men butyed in perpetuall obliuion The G●nerals of the Iesuites haue often forbidden their subjects to treate of any of these seditious points least by writing of them their memory might be preserued which is always dangerous when People are disposed to practice them And I doubt not but experience will sh●w that is the most prudent way to preuent all mischeife Yet to comply with your importunity I will follow encounter you in this I owne that there haue been excesses on both sides in their writers whose zeale for the cause they embraced was greater then their Discretion Yet the fault is lesse in those who stand only for what was of old beleiued and practised then in those who would haue all things changed according to their phansy therfore the excesses on the Catholicks side are more excusable yet we shall find the Protestants more pragmatical more refractory to Superiours more violent more seditious Rebellious then Catholicks without comparison I will begin with your Doctrine then passe to your practice The roote of all our seditious maximes is that detestable Proposition of your Patriark Witlef no Prince nor Prelat nor Bishop continues such in state of mortal sin Concil Constant f. 8. of which Melanction sayd Comment in Polit. Wicles caused much mischeif by teaching that those loose all Authority who haue not the holy Ghost What Oates hath the impudence to say euen to his Majesty is much worse for he requires not only that Princes Liue vertucusly that is haue the Holy Ghost but also punish all who do not vnder paine of Deposition Goodman in his Apology is of the same mind Bad Princes according to the Law of God ought to be deposed sayd he in case the Magistrates neglect to doe their Duty the People haue as free liberty to do it as if there were no Magistrates at all in those circumstances of time God enlargeth them with liberty to vse the sword Caluin in 6. Dan. v. 22. 25. The Kings of the Earth doe depriue themselues of Power when they make head against the King of Heauen Yea they are vnworthy to be numbred amongst men therefore we are rather to spit in their faces then to obey them Knox If Princes gouerne tyrannically against God his Truth their subjects are absolued from their Oath of Fidelity But is this freeing from their oath all No For Buccanan says The common People haue right to dispose of the scepters of Kingdomes at their pleasure Again the People have Power to Iudge of the life of their Kings Yet more It were to be wisht that rewards were appointed for such as kill Tyrants as there are for such as kill wolues Goodman Kings haue right to raigne from the People who vpon occasion can also reuoke it In fine Osiander says it is the common opinion of Wiclef's followers that the People may as they shall pleafe punish their Princes who offend These many other seditious Doctrines may be found in the Protestants Apology And if any desire to see their number encreased by modern Factious Spirits he shall see enough in the ordinary Gazets viz that the King is one of the three states that the house of Commens made him what he is that it is not treason to beare armes against the King prouided it be not against the three states That the Parliament CAN DISPOSE of the SVCCESSION of the CROWN many such maximes which you dayly aduance of as malignant a Nature as any before cited Here I must obserue a remarkable difference betwixt Catholicks you Catholicks do not follow these Principles I defy you to name any one Catholick aliue who hath taught any of them you retaine them still or rather grow worse worse Which is of no small consequence to discouer what party is dangerous to the state which guilty of treasonable maximes I come now to your practice which giues reason to say you came into the world like the Cadmean brood all armed that many or rather all your Princes felt your armes assoon as they saw your faces In Geneua you cast off the Authority of your Bishop Prince of the town In higher Germany you shaked the authority of Charles V. Emperour In lower Germany you withdrew many Prouinces from the obedience of their King You vsurped vpon Rudolphus the Emperour in Transiluania vpon Christiernus in Denmarck vpon Sigimund in Swedeland You fought for the Crowne of France against Francis II. Charles IX Henry III. in the time of Charles IX you coined mony in the name of one you held for King says Cardinal Richelieu Let vs come to our deare Country In England you set vp Iane Grey against the lawfull heyre queene Mary You bore armes against another Mary lawfull queen of Scotland brought her into restraint forced her to depose her self to fly her country not content with keeping her Prisoner nineteen yeares at last you put her barbarously to a violent death Your perpetual insolencies against her son Grandson your encroachments vpon the Royul Prerogatiue are written with a Beame of the sun Your whole proceedings against Charles 1. of Glorious memory are so knowne that I need not to mind you of them so detestable that I need no Art to make them appeare odious I defy you to shew that euer any Catholick designed vpon his Souveraigne what you haue lately acted on yours Now with what face can you reproach vnto vs any seditious Doctrin whilst you teach much worse haue executed things more execrable then euer any Catholick dreamt of Remoue this beame out of your eye before you take notice of a moth in ours which yet we haue long since remoued as I sayd CHAPTER 5. English Catholicks teach no seditious Doctrines E. C. pag. 4. describes vs to be men who sweepe away whole townes Citties Nations subuert sundamental
Laws change Gouernments cut off Princes rightfull Monarks absolue subjects from their Natural allegiance c pag 7. he addes we are full out such constitutioned Persons as he hath described vs not a jot better nay if we proue not worse before he hath done with vs we shall be obliged to him for his Ciuility Moderation A formidable charge but if we do not tell him it is as great a lye himselfe as false an Informer as Oates he ought to thank vs for our Moderation for he brings not one word to proue his accusation out of any English Catholick nor of any other countries aliue nor any of the dead who speake home let vs see your proofes E. C. pag. 4. Peruse the canon c. Excommunicatorum 23. q. 5. we do not account them Murtherers who burning with the zeal of our Mother the Catholick Church shall happen to kill any of them And are not men of such wicked bloudy designs like the fatal Sirius or Dogstar Answ reade the Canon out you will find no subiect for this Tragical Exclamation for that very Canon declares that action killing an excommunicated Person to be a sin commands the Bishop of Lucia to impose vpon the homicide a seuere publick Pennance Ne eiusdem Ecclesiae Matres disciplina deseratur Poenitentiam eis indicito congruentem Least the Disciplin of our Mother the Church be abandoned oblige the sinners to a Pennance proportioned to their offence And is this to approue of those attempts I would willingly see your Bishops impose a Pennance on the Rebels who killed seuerall of their fellow subjects loyall to their King whither they call it Murther or no I shall not trouble them about the word E. C. pag. 5. Bellarmin l. 3. de Laicis c. 22. says If it were possible to root out the Hereticks not any in the world excepted whether KINGS or EMPEROURS c. without doubt they are to be cut off euery mothers child of them Is not here enough surely too much to euidence how lawfull they hold MVRTHER to be But if it cannot be done because they are too hard they must lye still Answer It is hard to heape together more malicious falsications in so few words Bellarmin in that place enquires whither those words of our Sauiour Mat. 13.30 Let the good seed the tares grow vntill the Haruest do not forbid the Execution of malefactors in general for he says that by the good seede are vnderstood all good men by tares all wicked men according to those words the good seede are the children of the Kingdome tares are the children of the wicked one versu 38. And he says that malefactors of what kind soeuer are to be punisht when it may be done without danger to the publick but when they are so numerous as to cope with the bulke of loyal subjects they ought to be spared to auoyde greater euil Which is so conformable to common sence that none but such a momus as E. C. could reprehend it it is practised in all states 1. If they can all crush a Rebellion in the egge by the Death of one or a few Traitors 2. Is it spread ouer a greate part of the Nation some few heads are punisht the rest are pardoned 3. some times propter bonum pacts the heads themselues are pardonned too Charles 1. designed the first when he sought the fiue members offred the third when he was a Prisoner And Charles 11. at his happy Restauration practised the second for he punisht his Father's judges pardonned the rest Now I come to score vp some of your Falsifications 1. That Bellarmin speakes only of Hereticks He speakes of all kinds of Malefacters Quaestio est vel de Haereticis vel de furibus vel de alijs malis an extirpandi sint The doubt is ether of Hereticks or Thieues or other Malefactors whither they be to be cut off 2. That he doth not except Kings or Emperours to make your Impertinence more obseruable you put these names in Capital letters Sir I neuer thought it necessary to except Kings when we speake of punishing Rogues theiues because no man in his wits will think them meant by those words I beleiue on the same score all our English laws may be arraigned for I do not think when they order a theif to be hanged a Knyght of the Post to loos his eares c. that they adde except he be a King or Emperour 3 That Bellarmin teaches by those words MURTHER to be lawfull Is the Execution of Felons by due course of law Murther of that Bellarmin speakes Gentle Reader I earnestly desire thee to haue some Christian compassion of the condition of Catholicks thy country-men neyghbours who vpon such malicious mis-representations of most innocent sayings are exposed to publick Hatred cruel Persecutions by a senselesse vnchristian disingenious sort of men whose minds are blacker then their coates who make as little bones of a lye swearing to it as drinking a glasse of smal bee when they are thirsty E. C. pag. 5. Their Religion tempts them to all Actions that are horrible against Protestants by giuing them their Lands Estates which assoone as they haue exterminated Hereticks they shall possesse without controul Concil Later sub Innoc. III. c. 3. Now Council's decrees are by Papists honoured as Oracles of the Holy Ghost Says Stapleton Answer No body is ignorant how variously that Canon is spoken of Platina says that Council made no decrees Others say Absolute Princes are not comprehended because not named as they ought to be by reason of their particular dignity in odiosis C. sedes Apostolica de Rescriptis jndeed the words seruato iure Domini principalis preseruing entire the right of the supreame Lord shews that the Canon speakes only of Vassals or subordinate Princes not of the Absolute as Kings Jt is also sayd that the Kings consented to the Law by their Ambassadors they may enact what pleased Lastly it is only a positiue law which may be repealed doth not oblige vntill it be receiued in the seuerall Catholick states As appeares by those of the Council of Trent which are vniuersally receiued no where As to Stapleton his words are nothing to the purpose seing he speakes only of conciliar Definitions in matter of Faith E. C. pag. 6. Whatsoeuer the Holy Father the Pope doth if it be Theft or any other thing which of it self is euil as for example MURTHER c. we must like wise impute that to the jnspiration of GODS spirit And you cite C. non nos D. 40. in Glossa Answer no greate wonder you Protestant Ministers should falsify glosses of Canons who build your Faith on falsifications of the scriptures Neither canon nor Glosse say what you produce them for both lay the quite contrary The title of the Canon is The Papal office doth not giue but takes a way the liberty to sin In
that place nor any where else in his whole workes And I challenge you all your brethren to disproue this by shewing them Answ 2. Lessius in that place speakes of an opinion allowing a man of honour to kill a raskal who cudgels or buffets him if there be no other meanes to auoyde the disgrace And afterwards n. 78. he condemnes that opinion Haec sententia non est sequenda says he this opinion ought not to be followed For it ought to suffice that verbal iniuries be put by with words that iniurious Actions may be punisht by course of Iustice Thus Lessius Answ 3. All Catholicks condemne that opinion it hauing been condemned by Innocent XI Thus much for Lessius The next Iesuit you produce is Molina E. C. page 2. by Molina the life of a man is reckened at six or seuen Duckats he assures vs that it is lawfull to kill him for it nay thô he who hath taken them fly for it adding further in the same place that he durst not charge that man with any sin that kills another who had taken from him a thing of the value of a crown or lesse vnius aurei vel minoris adhuc valoris Ans 1. If he reckons a Man's life at 6. or 7. Dukats he rates it much higher then our English Laws who recken it at 13. pence-half penny Answ 2. you confound two cases in Molina one of a theif who comes to rob you The other of one who hath robbed you runs away with your purse or goods As to the first he says that if a theif sets vpon you threatens to kill you if you do not deliver your mony be it but a Crowne or lesse that you may defend your life mony if in the fight you chance to kill him he dares not condem you I do not think our laws in England would hang one who should in that manner kill a Hygh-way man on the road If they would they are very fauourable to theiues To the second case he answears that if the theif run away with a confiderable summe fiue Duckats he esteemes as nothing there be little hopes to recouer it hauing called in vaine to him to restore the goods it is lawfull to shoot at him yet so as to auoyde giuing him a mortal wound Semper consulendum est ne proximus occidatur are his words Then he says if by chance the theif dye of that wound non auderem condemnare I dare not condemne the Man as a Murtherer to the paines appointed by law to such This I speake not approuing the opinion but only to explicate his meaning to shew how you haue wronged him 1. in confounding two different cases 2 in mis-representing his meaning in both But as to the thing or opinion itself Answ 3. both I all Papists detest the opinion condem the practice of it in obedience to the Decree often cited of Innocent XI E. C. Pag. 3. Amicus tom 5. Disp 36. n. 118. It is Lawfull for an Ecclesiastick or a Religious Man to kill a Detractor that but threatens to diuulge th scandalous crimes of his Community when there is no other means left to himder him from doing of it as if he be ready to scatter his Calumnys if not suddenly dispatched out of the way Answer 1. Amicus his fault in aduancing that Proposition was greate althô he corrected the malignity of it by adding that he did affirme nothing but left his Discourse to the judgment of the discreet Reader Answ 2. in the Antwerpe Edition of Amicus an 1650. made by Iesuites that whole discourse was left out by order of the General of the Iesuites it was blotted out of all copyes of the first edition in the Libraries of the Iesuites By both which actions the Iesuites haue sufficiently declared their disowning of that Doctrine Answ 3. that same Proposition was condemned by Alexander VII on the 24. Septemb. 1665. from which time all Catholicks haue been obliged vnder paine of Excommunication to disown that Doctrine Thus much in vindication of the three Iesuites you cite out of which three things are euident The 1. that not one of them taught the Doctrine you charge them with Two positiuely teach the contrary the third leaues the Iudgment to the Reader The 2. that if they had erred no English Catholick would be concerned in it 1. because they knew nothing of the Doctrine 2. because they beleiue practice the quite contrary The 3. no Catholick in the world can be charged with those doctrines they being condemned by the Church all Catholicks owning obedience to those Decrees E. C. Soto says in defence of his person a man assaulted may kill another says that to hold it not Lawfull in such a case thô to the ruin of the man's soul to boot is both to peruert the law of nature to render the sweet easy yoake of Christ intolerable Answ Soto l. 5. de Justi q 1. ar 8. proposes this question Whither it be lawfull to kill another in my own defence And he answers 1. When I can sane my own life without killing the aggressor I must not kill him 2 When I cannot escape without killing the Aggressor I may kill him 3. It is neuer lawfull for any priuate man to intend the Death of another That being permitted only to absolute Princes Souueraign states by their order to their officers souldiers in time of war Executioners What displeases you in this Doth not our English Laws permit a man to kill an aggressor who h●th driuen him to a wall soe as he can not saue his life by flight what is that but Soto's 2. conclusion Then he proposes this obiection against his 2. Conclusion The aggressor is in state of mortal sin because he seekes my life Wherefore if I kill him he will be damned as dying in mortal sin Now I am bound to loose my life rather then his soul ergo I must let my self be killed And he says if this reason were good it were neuer lawfull for any man to defend his life from any Aggressor who presseth beyond all possibility of escape Which duty to lett my self be killed being contrary to the law of nature so fauourable to Ruffians so hard for Innocent ●ersons it would make the sweete yoake of Christ vneasy intolerable To cleere his meaning I propose another case suppose a Captain of one of his Majesty's ships should scruple to shoot bullets at the Algerins as thinking it more conformable to the law of Christ to let his ship be taken then to saue it by the Death Damnation of those Infidels What answer would you E. C. giue that he ought to yeild his ship to auoyde the losse of those souls that the law of Christ obliges to it If so I beleiue his Majesty will neuer appoint you to instruct his seamen If you say he may vse such meanes as