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A47280 The sober conformists answer to a rigid conformists reasons why in this juncture no alteration should be made in the government of the Church of Scotland. Ker, William. 1689 (1689) Wing K346; ESTC R8036 26,163 32

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sh Attempts which that Church and Kingdom by the policy of some other laud may too readily be brought into which I wish heartily GOD may prevent So that ye see how far ye are out in this Reason Your 6th Reason is so weak that you need no more then sure Information from England and impartial consideration how the interest of the Prince and Princess of Orange is stated to abate your Confidence in it You say That to be for presbytery in this Juncture will exceedingly disoblige 〈◊〉 Princess of Orange whose principles are known to all Europe in this matter Sir ye are greatly mistaken for I have seen a Letter from a person who knows her sentiments shewing that she is not only willing to give Dissenters all satisfaction and if Episcopacy be continued in England to her mind that the Prince be gratified by the Revival of Presbytrie in Scotland But also that she hath a particular Resentment of the severities and cruelties exercised towards the Presbyterians in Scotland and has frequently declared that seing Presbytrie commenced with the Reformation of this Kingdom has been solemnly sworn to and established by the National Ass emblies of the Church and the Sanction of the Civil Laws She judgeth it neither Equitable nor convenient that any other Government should be pressed on that People And we need not doubt but as the Calamities of Presbyterians hath begot a compassion in her heart towards them So the Bishops Loyal Address to the King hath much cooled her Affection for us and I wish their after Carriage do not heighten her prejudice against them And how ever she is certainly a Princess of that Wisdom and Zeal for the Reformed Religion that nothing will displease or disoblidge her that is most necessary and convenient for the Advancement and Establishment of the Protestant Intere st in Scotland for which Presbyterians can too easily shew the Re-establishment of Presbytrie to be the most propet and effectual Method which one of them hath done already by some Reasons which I have seen why in this Juncture Episcopacy should be abrogated and Presbytrie Re-established Moreover she is a Princess of such moderate Inclinations that nothing can more dis oblidge her then the persecution of Protestants by Protestants And she is not so ignorant of our Affairs but that she knows that unless the Episcopal Clergy can alwayes patiently indure a general contempt or be secured from ever having any influence on the Government Episcopacy and persecution in Scotland are inseparable And for the Prince I know not what Ground ye have for your confidence to say That to be for Presbytry will disoblidge him also who has no inclination for the Realteration of the Government of the Church as he has now aboundantly declared You seem to be equally destitute of Policy and good Intelligence For as it is known to all the World that he is Presbyterian so his Declaration for Scotland hath insinuated his inclinations to favour Presbyterians as clearly as was convenient for the Time. And though his Wisdom and Moderation be s uch in expressing himself that nothing can be certainly concluded from any thing that hath dropt from him yet it is evident that he will Judge the Presbyterian Party more worthy of his confidence more suiable objects of his favour than the Episcopal for he will doubtless expect that these will be more firm and faithful to his Interest whose respect to him is established by their conscientious zeal for the Reformed Religion again st popery and who shall be chiefly oblidged to him for restoring their Former Priviledges then these who are Acted Generally by their Interests and have been so deeply engaged in Interests opposite to his and who must be in some measure disoblidged of necessity by Moderating and Ballancing their Exorbitant power and rescinding the cruel Laws made in their Favours And I am afraid that the Presbyterians will be more Active and Zealous in advancing him to the Crown of Scotland then these of our perswasion and thereby oblige him to favour them as his best and surest Friends albeit that the prerogatives which we annex to the Crown be a great Tentation to one that designs Arbitrary Government yet it avails little with a Prince of such a Wise and Moderate Temper who has seen his Predecessors either endangered or ruined by their Attempting and Exercising it and who knows that Kings Soveraignty and a Peoples Liberties are most firmly secured when most equally established as notwithstanding of the prejudices of some against Presbytry as inconsistent with Monarchy I confess they have been in the peaceable times of the Presbyterian Government when King James the 6th and his Son King Charles 1 st were personally pre sent in their Parliaments had greater advantages for understanding their own and their Peoples Interest then can be had at a distance and only by Information from subtile self seeking Courtiers So that you see how far ye are decieved in your expectations from the Prince and Princess of Orange who will doubtless Endeavour to Redress the Grievances in Church and State which ye cannot conceive possible without some Alteration and that greater then ye seem to apprehend Your seventh Reason is a Reference of several things to the consideration of all thinking men as sufficient to determine them to an aversion at Presbytry wherein ye go so far beyond the bounds of Sobriety and give so great suspicion of Calumny that Presbyterians will represent you as a Machiavilan throwing much dirt upon them only of design that some of it may stick let all thinking men reflect say ye upon the natural temper of presbytry and veiw it in its Tyranical Pragmatick meddling and Domineering effects which many good men yet living of all qualities have severely felt Sir I know not well what ye mean by natural temper more then by your natural Reception and Exigence but Presbyterians will refer their principles to the consideration of all Impartial M●n whither they be no more agreeable to Divine Institution in the Scripture then Episcopacy though they be not so agreeable to the Natural Tempers of Men which they grant to be no better in presbyterians then in others yea to have been so very Episcopal in some of them as to carry them t● practices Dissonant to their principles and upon that account more hateful then worse practices of Bishops because suitable or at least uns utable to their principles for that which would be accounted Gravity Dexterity Actively and Zeal in a Bishop is accompted Tyrannical Pragmatical meddling and Domineering in a Presbyter But these are not the proper and native Effects of Presbytry rather imitations of Episcopacie proceeding from Mens natural Infirmitives and the peculiar circumstances and torrent of the times they have lived in contrary to their principles So that in effect all that is quarrelled in Presbyterians is the Episcopal practice in some of them under a Presbyterian profession which cannot be justly
to Papists But as Instrumental in advancing Popish designs partly by the Ignorance Profanity and Arminianism aboundoning under it Disposing and preparing the Nation for Popery and partly by its Severity and cruelty towards dissenting Protestants to the manifest weakning of the Protestant Interest And even Envy it self cannot but acknowledge the Presbyterian Government hath been abundantly both severe and successful against Popery and nothing blunted and slackned in its Zeal and Watchfulness against Papists amits all its severities against Episcopals whereas the Penal Laws against Papists were brought to such a Des uetude by us that the most threatning dangers from Popery could not awaken us to the Execution of them least we should have diverted from persecuting Presbyterians by a rigorous Execution of the Laws made in our Favours against them which did so intirely take up the Government that not only both Profanity and Popery have been connived at but encouraged in so far as they were assisting to us in opposing and oppressing Presbyterians so that it will never be believed that Presbyterian Government hath any pernicious Influence upon the Protestant Religion but rather that it hath a powerful Influence for securing it against Popery far more vigorous and Zealous yea and effectual and successful then ever the Episcopal had at least in Scotland And it is evident that the Presbyterian Interest is every way at present more directly opposite to the Popish Interests then the Episcopal is which I am affraid shall yet further appear by the carriage and conduct of our party in the Convention that so manifestly as to highten the Nations prejudices against Episcopacy more then ever and make all sober Protestants conclude that we must of necessity have either Presbytry or Potery and truly I cannot otherwise Judge of it then as an Infatuation presaging the ruine of our Interest if the Bishops and the Nobility Gentry and Burgesses of our Perswasion shall join Issue with a Popish party against the Prince of Orange his Interest which is so inseparably Interwoven with the Reformed Interest in Europe and especially in Britain That by adhering to the Interest of King James the 7th in opposition to his they will unavoidably either give provocation to the Prince of Orange to abrogate Episcopacy in Scotland in order to the advancing and establishing the Reformed Religion or else give occasion or advantage to King James the 7th to Redintegrate his Popish designs with more violence and success than ever before to the ruine of all profest Protestants and especially of us Episcopals because we have the Laws upon our side without any more regard to their Zeal and Activity for him in his Extreamities then the King of France had for the Protestants who kept the Crown on his Head or Queen Mary of England to the Counties of Suffolk and Northfolk who advanced her to the Crown or to come home then King Charles the 2 d. had to the Presbyterians who in his greatest extreamities brought him home to Scotland and spent their blood for him at Worcester And its certain that our refusing to follow Englands Example of Gratitude to the Prince of Orange will necessitate this Church and Kingdom to stand upon a bottom more different from Yea opposite unto that of England than if presbytry were Established and will oblige us to secure our selves from Popery by methods as different from the wise Conduct of the English As the binding of Samson with Cords was from the shaving the Locks of his Head or to come nearer as there was betwixt Englands and Scotlands carriage towards the Duke of York and at the best will be very hard for Scotland s o that your fears least the establishment of presbytry necess itate the Churches of Scotland and England to s tand upon different Costomes which will be hard for Scotland are but feigned and groundless neither savouring of a politick Wit not an Ingenuous Spirit For Church Government is Extrinsick to the Foundation of the Reformed Religion and Protestants were at a loss if their Arguments against Popery were principally founded upon this Topick or could not be deduced from any other Presbyterians will tell you That ouly the Scriptures are the Foundation of the Reformed Religion and the common bottom on which all the Reformed Churches are founded But also that the greater part of the Episcopal Champions and Clergy acknowledge Episcopacy to have no other Warrand than an Ecclesia stick constitution which is a foundation common to all the popish corruptions And whereas ye repeat That presbytrie will divide Scotland from England which will open a door to the re-entry of popery Are they not united in one common Protestant interest Except in so far as the Clergy of England are generally Arminians excepting some few Learned Men which I confess will oblidge them to justifie themselves by different Arguments not only from Scotish presbyterians but all the other Reformed Churches which will be harder for England than Scotland But that presbytrie will open a door to the re-entry of popery will never be believed s eing presbyterians at first ejected it out of Scotland And all their time secured the Nation from it more than ever since without the Assistance of England which if ever Scotish presbyterians shall need they may expect it much more from the P of Orange when he shal be their King as well as Englands Then even when Queen Elizabeth found her self oblidged to give it by the Tye of the common interest of Religion without any Relation to them as her Subjects And as for your Tautolagick repetition again that presbytry cannot but alienate the Affections of the Church of England from us which considering our weakness will expose us as a prey to the common Enemy it is altogether vain and foolish For the Church of England can never be more aleniated in their Affections to presbyterians than at this present towards our Bishops and as their joyning issue with papists against the prince of Orange hath exceedingly discommended them to it so the presbyterians joyning issue with him by their Zeal against Popery will as much commend them to it And how ever ye may be-assured that the interest of England will oblidge them to assist Scotland in case of Danger from popery more effectually than their difference from Scotland in point of Church Government can alienate them for ye know the Maxim Tune tua res agitur paries cum proximus ardet But many are of Opinion that if Episcopacy be continued it will perpetuate such irreconcilable intestine Divisions and Animosities in Scotland as will weaken and expose us a prey to Popery more then any Assistance from England can strengthen and secure us from it whereas the establishment of Presbytery would bring us to such an intire and firm Union that Scotland could secure it self from all danger of Popery without any Assistance from England Yea and put us in Capacity to Assist England in case of danger from Popi
charged on the whole party and for less on their principles which have a quite contrary tendancy And ingenuously by Presbytry will be judged by few to have such a tendency to Tyrranny over the Church Pragmatick meddling with the State as Episcopacy as its constitute in Scotland hath And they will desire all Judicious men to cons ider whether Idleness Ambition and Avarice in the Clergy Ignorance Worldly mindedness and Profanity among People Be not the effects of Episcopacy and indeed so manifestly have these abounded under Episcopal Government that the most part will decide the question in their Favours against us But I cannot wonder enough what could move you to think much more deliberately to write of the Hypocrisie immortality and Anti●…ristian genus of the Presbyterian party seeing thes e things may not only be retorted with great Advantage but cannot justly and ingenuosly be charged on the Generality of presbyterians you may assure your self this will tempt them to draw up a Black Lybel against the Bishops and Generality of our Clergy as alas they have too large grounds for recent in the remembrance of the Nation and they will think it enough to tell you calmly and soberly that if persons unsutableness to their profession be Hypocrisie if the grossest of scandals and open profanity be immoralitie And finally if violent persecution be the Effect and Evidence of an Antichristian genius All these things are more applicable to Episcopals then presbyterians So that all these Reffections directed against them will rebound on our selves And I am afraid they will stick faster to us then to them because they not only agree to the general Sentiments of all Ranks of people but their Observations and Experience of them is late and recent Whereas the mos t part of old Malignants who were formerly carried away with prejudices against presbytry under the pretences of Loyalty have turned Fanaticks since and as persons convinced of their mistakes both of the presbyterian cause Interest which they opposed and the Episcopal which they owned have thought it their duty so to do though to the exposing themselves to the Reproaches and other Persecutions of the Episcopal party in their greatest power And it is indeed very observable that those who intertain prejudices against the presbyterian Government are either Young Men who never saw it in its integrity and living under a Government contrary to it have not heard any other account of it then of the failings and exorbitancies of some of that Profession which are not the native product of their Principles but such excesses as the Biass of the Age and Circumstances they lived in drove them into or else old Turncoats and violent Persecutors who to justifie their change of their Profession and their Persecution of these who adhere to it make it their work to fix an Odium on Presbytery and by their frequent impudence in reproaching it have at last deluded themselves into an obstinate belief of their own invented Calumnies Your last Reason is That if the Church of England continue as it is as undoubtedly it will and Scotland be reduced to presbytery then considering the boundless and restless spirit of presbytery Scotland will impose sicut ante an Vniformity on England in Doctrine and Discipline which will commence a new Civil War the thoughts of which cannot but breed horror in all reasonable Men. Sir The only Foundation of these your Apprehensions is the Solemn League tho you mention it not which altho it be a touchy point yet presbyterians can abundantly vindicate the same s o as to prevent the fears of all Judicious Men whom they will desire to consider that it obliges the members of the Church of Scotland to no other thing in reference to England then what is Antecedently their duty towards it and all other Reformed Churches by virtue of the Sympathy and Communion that every part of the Catholick Visible Church ought to have with any other part of it That its Obligation is to be measured by the general rules of Judgement Truth and Righteousness that it is chiefly obligding to oppose Popery and to endeavour the peace and happiness of both Nations and finally that it obligeth no Man to any thing but what is proper to him in his station and therefore all your fears of a Civil War betwixt England and Scotland from this ground are but Melancholick Apprehensions if so be that the Prince of Orange shall be King of Britain and so long as he and the English Parliament think it inexpedient to seek and he and the Scots Parliament think it inexpedient to give assistance for the alteration of the English Church Government from Episcopacy to Presbytry But many fear upon more solid Grounds that the house of Commons in England clip your Bishops wings by degrees as either to rid the Nation of them at length without the assistance of Scotland or else bring them to such a tollerable Mediocrity as will render them more acceptable to all the English Nation then a Civil War can be suppos ed will be to any English Presbyterians who are so ballanced betwixt the opposition of these of the Episcopal perswasion in the one hand and of the Independent on the other that there is no party in England either more moderate or Cautions when they are Thus you see how weak a Defence of our cause these your Reasons now appear to be after they are considered tho with more calmness and tenderness then you can expect from a Presbyterian who se answer to them to your disgrace and our disadvantage I wish may be prevented by this Friendly freedom of mine with you and I would advise you to wait a little longer till there be some better product of the Labours of your Brethren who are studying this Controversie harder then ever in order to a learned and elaborate Vindication of Episcopacy and Refutation of Presbytry to which if this paper can any way be subservient I allow you to communicate it to your Brethren that they may be the more sober cautious in mannaging the controversie but I pray you let it not come to the sight of any Presbyterian least they print it to the publick Affront of our cause and I disswade you as your Friend from the Resolution that I hear you are upon of printing your Reasons whatever emendations you make in them for it is an old Maxime in crist non movendum and the Presbyterians modest silence amidst the present Advantages they have will be more commended then any thing we can writ for our vindication in the dangerous circumstances that we are in at present And Sir I am hopeful that you will not think your self disoblidged by this friendly Duty from Sir Your Real Friend and Humble Servant FINIS