writings confesses c Grets defens Bellar. de verb. Dei l. 2. c. 16. pag. 850. c. pag 918. A. If you speake of the whole Chapter Bellarmine acknowledges the Apostle to speake not onely of spirituall songs and preaching and exhortations but of the reading the Scripture likewise and publicke Seruice Hence it followes that the Apostle condemnes the reading of the Scripture or prayer and Church-seruice in a language not vnderstood as well as he doth preaching collations and hymnes for vers 26. he requires all things that he speakes of be done to edifying and vers 6. he sayes If I come vnto you speaking with tongues that is in a language you vnderstand not what shall I profit you And vers 9. Except ye vtter words that can be vnderstood you shall speake in the aire And vers 11. If I know not the meaning of the voice he that speakes shall be a Barbarian vnto me And vers 14. For if I pray in an vnknowne tongue my vnderstanding is vnfruitfull And vers 16. How shall he that occupies the roome of the vnlearned say AMEN at thy giuing of thanks when he vnderstands not what thou sayst Thou giuest thankes well but the other is not edified Hence I thus reason The Apostle condemnes euery thing in the Church whatsoeuer it be that edifies not But prayer reading the Scripture and Seruice in the Church as well as preaching and spirituall songs in a language that the people present vnderstand not edifie not Ergo he condemnes prayer reading the Scripture and Seruice in the Church in a language that the people present vnderstand not as well as preaching and spirituall songs The first proposition is in vers 12.19.26 the second in vers 6.14.16.17 the conclusion therefore is the Apostles And indeed if our aduersaries could haue shewed that the prayers mentioned ver 15 had bin such spirituall songs or preaching onely as they expound and then that the Apostle in all his discourse had onely spoke of such songs and preaching and not of prayer reading the Scripture or Seruice in the Church also they had had some colour for themselues though not enough to auoid our argument but when he speaks of these things also by their owne confession and the whole intent of his doctrine is that ALL THE THINGS HE SPEAKES OF be done with edification it is desperate peruersnesse to say the text proues nothing against them 3 In the second place therefore when Bellarmine cannot auoide it but it is manifest the Apostle at least in some part of his discourse speakes of singing and prayers and reading of the Scripture which belong to Church-seruice he fals to answering and layes downe foure answers whereof he casts off three and betakes himselfe to the fourth The first is that by singing and praying mentioned verse 19. where the Apostle sayes I will pray and sing with the spirit and I will pray and sing with vnderstanding also else how shall he that occupies the roome of the vnlearned say AMEN when he vnderstands not what thou sayst is meant preaching and exhorting not praying a hard exposition when the common notion of the words is against it and the Apostle manifestly distinguishes the one from the other and men vse not to say Amen to preaching yet most vntruly and dishonestly he fathers it on Basil Theodoret and Sedulius a For Basil reg contract q 278. Theodor 1. Cor. 14. v. Quid ergo est expound the place of prayer as well as of exhortation Sedulius onely expounds it of exhortation alone being deceiued through ignorance of the Greeke word who neither all of them expound it so * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil qu. cont q. 178. nor allow prayer in an vnknowne tongue His second exposition is that the Apostle requires not all the people to vnderstand what is prayed and sung but onely that he vnderstand who supplies the roome of the people in answering meaning the Parish clark b Quidam ex Catholicis ita hunc locum intellexerunt Grets p 971. B. But Seâ—ulius sayes Jdiotae id est nuper baptizati qui nullam praeter propriam intelligit linguam p. 237. Theodoret says Qui in laicorum ordine constitutus est This answer is made by some Papists and went for good till necessitie draue the Iesuites to find a better For it was too grosse to bring the pedegree of a Parish clarke vp to the Church of Corinth in S. Pauls dayes His third is that by him that occupies the roome of the vnlearned is meant he that answers for the people belike some that vnderstands the tongue but not a Parish clarke by office and takes vpon him to answer for the rest that vnderstand it not These three answers he casts off and deuises a fourth whereto the Replier in this place referres me 4 Fourthly therefore c §. Vera igitur he sayes The Apostle in this place speakes neither of diuine Seruice nor of the publicke reading of the Scriptures in the Church but of certaine spirituall songs which the Christians composed for the praising of God and giuing him thankes and for their owne and others comfort and edification This answer allowes the Apostle to condemne the vse of such hymnes and canticles in an vnknowne tongue and the like vse of preaching and collations but it denies the vse of prayer and Seruice and the rest of the publicke Liturgie in an vnknowne tongue to be condemned because the Apostle in these words of the 15 and 16 verses speakes nothing concerning them d Antid Apostolic in 1. Cor. 24. v. 16.17 D. Stapleton and e On 1. Cor 14. §. It is as certain the Rhemists also affirme it to be certaine that he meanes not nor writes any word in this place of the Churches publicke Seruice Prayers or ministration of the holy Sacrament but onely of a certaine exercise of mutuall conference wherein one did open to another and to the assembly miraculous gifts and graces of the holy Ghost and such Canticles Psalmes secret mysteries sorts of languages and other reuelations as it pleased God to giue to certaine both men and women This answer containes two parts an affirmatiue and a negatiue The affirmatiue is that he meanes such spirituall songs and exercises of conference I will not sticke with the Iesuite for the vse of such exercises in the Church at that time it being agreed of all hands that there was such a custome and the Apostles owne words report it in the 26 v. When you come together euery one of you hath a Psalme hath a doctrine hath a tongue hath a reuelation hath an interpretation But that he so meanes such hymnes and such extraordinarie exercises alone that he meanes not praier also I vtterly denie For that which he brings out of Eusebius Dionysius and Tertullian will serue to proue that the custome of those times was to sing in the congregation but it proues not that S. Paul here speakes of
audire sacrum poste◠raptus alijs cogitationibus parum aut nihil aduertit dicitur quidem praeceptum missam audiendi implere nec tenetur audire aliam dummodo non sit affectata diuagatio Tol. sum l. c. 6. c. 6. vide Nauarr man c. 21. n. 8. de orat p. 431. concl 16. n. 2. if he hold him to the doctrine of his owne side will require no such attention but that must not greatly mooue vs when f Quae autem segnitia est alienari capi ineptis cogitationibus profanis cum dominū deprecaris quasi aliud sit quod magis debeas cogitare quam quod cum Deo loqueris◠Cypr. de orat Dom. sub fi◠it were the most barbarous thing in the world for the people in time of Gods Seruice not to ioine heart and tongue and countenance and all with the Minister Secondly that the Priests praying for the people is that profite which is sufficient for the people in publike praiers or any profit at all when it is in an vnknowne language is likewise false as I haue said And there can no reason be assigned why then S. Paule should condemne the praiers vsed in the Church of Corinth in a strange tongue when they also were conceiued for the people as well as ours 6 The negatiue part of Bellarmines answer is that the Apostle speakes not of Diuine Seruice nor the publicke reading of the Scripture I grant he speakes not of such Diuine Seruice as is now vsed because I suppose there was either no set forme of Seruice at all the Church being yet vngrowne and in persecution or no such forme as now is vsed But of that forme that was then vsed he speakes that is to say whatsoeuer forme of Seruice and manner of praiers was vsed in the congregation he commands euen in those words be done in a knowne language The which if the Repliar denie I must put him in mind of that I haue said before out of Gretser that in this Chapter he speakes of reading the Scripture and the publicke Seruice But it is certaine that whersoeuer he speakes of it he requires they be done to edification and expounds the edification by vnderstanding the language wherein they are done in the same manner that here he speakes of singing and praying For therefore he mentions them wheresoeuer it be because they were abused and that abuse was the vsing them in an vnknowne tongue and this abuse he condemnes wishing them to speake with edification which is al one whether he speake of them in this place or in another But let vs heare how Bellarmine proues the Apostle not to speake of diuine seruice or publike reading the Scripture in this place it is proued saith he by this that the Scriptures were read and the seruice done in Greeke because it was a Greeke Church But the Apostle speakes of something that was done not in the Greeke but in some other vnknowne tongue This auoids not our argument for he cannot proue they had any set forme of liturgy at all g Mos Apostolorum fuit vt ad ipsam solummodo orationem dominicam oblationis hostiam consecratent Greg. l. 7. ep 64. see Amulat Fortun. l. 3. Pref. Cusan ep 7. All writers consenting that in those daies they vsed to consecrate the Sacrament by saying the Lords prayer it is as likely they would haue had a set forme for the Sacrament as for any other part of the seruice But whether they had a set forme or no we grant they had a forme of seruice at least praier and reading and Sacraments formed at the choise and liberty of the Pastors But how doth the Iesuite proue that de facto it was done in the Greeke that all vnderstood we graunt de iure it ought but this is that we say that when these men indued with the gifts of tongues came into the congregation they would do it in strange tongues and not in Greeke which is part of the abuse that the Apostle speakes against requiring that if such would omit the ordinary common language and do the Church seruice such as it was in a strange language as the spirituall songs mentioned were done then let him speake and another interpret Besides the singing mentioned cannot be shewed to haue bene other then a part of the Church seruice For whatsoeuer shew Bellarmine make with the names of Eusebius Dionysius and Tertullian yet as I haue said h Yea Tertull. in the place cited apol c. 39 mentions nothing else but the Hymnes which Christians sang altogether in their assēblies instituted by the Apostles whereof we reade so much in antiquitie that the Christians in their meetings vsed to sing Psalmes together Ephes 5.19 Col. 316 Epiph. l 3 sub fin Plin l. 10. ep 2. Nicep l 3 c. 17. Euseb hist l. 3 c. 33. Tert apol c. 2. Aug. conf l. 9. c. 6. 7. Jgnat Ep ad Rom. sub init Basil ep 63. Dionys de diuin nom c. 3. 4. pag. 281. mentions nothing but singing of all together and in another place eccl Hier. c. 3. reports the custome of singing Psalmes by all the cleargy mē together at the Altar 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 132. the which to haue bene such spirituall songs as the Iesuite here conceites that were no part of the Church seruice he can neuer proue but the place looked into will shew the contrary that they were part of such Church seruice as they vsed they do not distinguish the singing they speake of frō that which belongs to the liturgie or was of the same order and albeit it were granted that such as the Apostle mētions sang by miracle as they praied and prophecied by miracle yet why might not this singing praying and reading be part of the Church seruice that at such times was vsed Thirdly let it be granted that he speakes not of the seruice but onely of that which was done extraordinarily by miracle then haue our aduersaries to shew how the Apostles argument against preaching and singing in a strange tongue holds not likewise against Church seruice in a strange tongue Bellarmine and Gretser say the principall end of those spirituall and miraculous songs was the instruction and consolation of the people and therefore it was meete they should vnderstand them but the principall end of Church seruice being to worship God and the Priest hauing in charge to teach the people what they vnderstand not it is not needfull the said seruice should be in a knowne tongue But this latter that the Priest had in charge to teach the people what they vnderstood not is vntrue for the Apostle will haue both Priest and people ioyned together Thou verily giuest thankes well but thy brother is not edified Neither would I require any better argument for my assertion then this For if the end of Church seruice be Gods worship therefore the people must vnderstand it that they may worshippe God For this
vbi sup Fourthly the Feast of the Conception which imports she was without sinne is celebrated 5 Vasq vbi sup In which regard sayes Vasquez it would seeme verie strange to me if the Church should euer define she was conceiued in sinne when by her authoritie she hath alreadie commaunded the Feast of the Conception in token she was not conceiued in sinne and the common consent of Catholicks both vulgar and Diuines contending for the immaculate conception without sinne Suarez q Vbi sup prop. 4. sayes Sixtus Quartus did much fauour it whose decree the Councell of Trent approues and the whole Church doth vehemently leane to it that now the contrarie can haue either none at all or no firme or euident foundation But the truth is it is fully defined in the Councell of Basill Hitherto r Sess 36. sayes the Councell a difficult question hath bene made touching the Conception of the glorious Virgin We hauing diligently seene and examined the reasons define and declare that the doctrine which teaches her neuer to haue bene actually subiect to sinne but alwayes free from it and from all actuall sinne to be consonant to the religion OF THE CHVRCH AND CATHOLICKE DOCTRINE and that it shall be lawfull for no man hereafter to teach the contrarie moreouer we renew the ordinance made for the celebrating of this holy conception on the 6. of the Ides of December Whereby we see how false it is that it is not held as a point of faith For building themselues vpon this decree and vpon Å¿ Cum Praeexcelsa Graue nimis in extrau comm another of Sixtus Quartus whereto the t Sess 5. §. Declarat tamen Councell of Trent manifestly giues way by confirming the conceit u Almain Clictouae Titlem reported by Vasq Suar. vbi sup the forwarder sort of our aduersaries affirme it resolutely to be a point of faith defined by the Church But whether it be true or no that the faith of their Church is nothing but what this froward generation will confesse to be defined by the Pope by this it is plaine that touching this point the Pastors and Doctors and people of the Romane church differ from antiquitie Vasquez w Communis consensus Catholicorum non solùm imperiti vulgi sed etiam Doctorum Theolâ—gorum pro immaculata conceptione pugnat Vasq vbi sup sayes expresly Not onely that vnskilfull vulgar but the Doctors and Diuines and all Catholickes with one consent fight for the immaculate conception What immodestie is it now to denie that to be the Churches faith which is thus holden and to say it is not diligently digested that is thus concocted in the conceits not onely of the vulgar but of the Doctors and Diuines and all Catholickes with one consent in the Church of Rome CHAP. L. 1. Touching Seruice and Prayer in an vnknowne language 2. The Text of 1. Cor. 14. expounded and defended against Bellarmine 7. The ancient Church vsed prayer in a knowne language A. D. Secondly touching Latin Seruice although M. White say as it is easie to say that all antiquitie is against vs in this point Pag. 279. White p. 343. yet he will neuer be able to proue solidely that the ancient Church did condemne this our practise The words of the Apostle which he alledgeth proue nothing to the purpose as is shewed by Bellarmine and as for other authors which he citeth they do not disallow this this our practise Bellar. l. 2. de verb. Del. c 16. or account it vnlawfull whereas both by reason and authoritie our authors shew it to be both lawfull and laudable See Bellarmine lib. 2. de verbo Dei cap. 15. 1 THe vse of the Church of Rome to haue the publicke Seruice and Prayers and ministration of Sacraments in an vnknowne tongue is well enough knowne This I affirmed to be against antiquitie and a point wherein they haue altered the faith of the ancient Church And first I alledged the words of Saint Paul then the testimonie and confession of other Ecclesiasticall writers to all which he answers nothing but referres me to Bellarmine In which absurd course if I would imitate him I might also referre him to such as haue answered Bellarmine and the reader that expected to see the thing tried betweene vs should be deluded Neuerthelesse I will doe my best to bring this broode of darknesse to the light and euery thing that I haue said to the triall that the truth may appeare and the shame be theirs that turne their backes 2 First he sayes I will neuer be able soundly to proue that the auncient Church condemned this their practise I answer the Apostle condemnes it in the words a 1. Cor. 14.7 alledged If an instrument of musicke make no distinction in the sound how shall it be knowne what is piped or harped So likewise you vnlesse by the language you vtter words that haue signification how shall it be vnderstood what is spoken for you shall speake in the aire I will pray and sing with the spirit and I will pray and sing with the vnderstanding also Else when thou blessest with the Spirit how shall he that occupies the roome of the vnlearned say Amen at thy giuing of thankes seeing he knowes not what thou sayest I had rather in the Church to speake fiue words with my vnderstanding that I might also instruct others then a thousand words in a strange tongue No enemie that the Church of Rome hath can more fully condemne Seruice in an vnknowne language nor in more effectuall termes speake against it For be requires all that which is done in the Church be it Exhortation Prophecie Singing Expounding or Praying to be done in a language that the people present vnderstands and rebukes the contrary All that the Replier sayes hereto is that Bellarmine hath shewed these words proue nothing Which is his policie to auoide the scanning of them for he knowes all the learned of his side be so deuided in their answer to these words that whatsoeuer he should say would fall out to be contrary to that which others affirme For the auoiding of which inconuenience he referres vs to Bellarmine as if in him we should find a iust answer and full satisfaction But he abuses the Reader as shall plainly appeare by propounding the summe and substance of all that Bellarmine sayes to the place First he sayeth It is certaine the Apostle in a great part of this chapter speakes not of the reading of the Scripture nor concerning the Seruice of the Church but of certaine spirituall exhortations and conferences then vsed Touching this point how true or false soeuer it be I will not greatly stand with him but then it is as certaine that in a great part of this Chapter he speakes of Church-seruice and prayers and of reading the Scripture as well as of spirituall conferences and collations So his patron Gretser that hath lately vndertaken to defend all his
A wonder not farre from Rome Writers not putting their names to their bookes censured by the Iesuites The Popes Iester The name of Minister and Priest Church the pillar of truth The way of Catholicke discipline is the way of the Scripture The Iesuites Method in perswading to Papistry The manner of A. D. his Replying and his promise to raile Chap. 2. The Papists trampling of the Scriptures and preferring their Church The Church of Rome touched in her honesty and reputed for a whore The conditions of a whore Chap. 3. The order of the Iesuites why and to what purpose erected by the Pope they are that to the Pope that the Ianisaries are to the Turke Their aboadments Chap. 4 Some examples of the Iesuites rapine Touching the present Pope Paule 5. and his nephew Burghesi The Iesuites deuouring those that entertaine thē Chap. 5. Touching the rapine and couetousnesse of the Romish Cleargy And their single life and what the world hath thought thereof Chap. 6. Touching the turbulency of our Iesuites and Maspriests in the State and their vnthankefulnesse to the King The seditious doctrine of the Church of Rome leading to all disobedience against the Magistrate and rebellion whēsoeuer occasion shall serue Tyrones rebellion and the Spanish inuasion promoted by the Pope A Catalogue of about forty Emperors Kings and Princes destroyed or vexed by the Pope and his Cleargy A consideration vpon the doctrine of the Popes power to depose kings Chap. 7. Concerning the doctrine of Merits taught in the Church of Rome and touching the Bull of Pius and Gregory against Michael Bayus the Deane of Louane Chap. 8. The Papacy brought in by Sathan The Iesuits spirit of contradiction The Church of Rome reuolted The fiue Patriarkes were equall at the first Plaine Scripture against the Papacy The ignorance of Popish laity Corruption of writings by the Papists Reformation desired long before it came Aduice giuen to A.D. Chap. 9. The Apocrypha not accounted Canonicall Scripture Papists professing to expound against the Fathers The new English translation of the Bible Traditions equalled with the holy Scripture About the erring of Councels And the sufficiencie of the Scriptures Chap. 10. The practise of the Papists in purging bookes The sacrifice of the Masse and reall presence denied Points of Papists absurd The Pope Lords it ouer all Papists need pay no debts May be traitors to murder Princes Iesuites plots in the powder-treason The Popes dispensing with sinne A meditation for all Papists Chap. 11. The Papists manner of dealing with immodesty and vncharitablenesse Briarly and Walsinghams bookes noted Some reports of the Papists meeknesse and mildnesse Hunt a Seminary arraigned at Lancaster The dumbe cattle slaughtered in Lancash The generall desire of vs all to reduce them to charity Chap. 12. Touching the ignorance that Papistrie hath bred among people Their barbarous manner of praying auoched Of Iohn the Almoner a legend The manner how a certaine Priest baptised The Replies zeale for recusants of the better sort A Lancash gentleman alledged by the Reply A note of a French Knight The successe of preaching in Lancash Chap. 13. Touching prayer to Saints Mediation of redemption and intercession Bonauentures Psalter Christ the onely mediator of intercession Reasons why we desire not the dead to pray for vs as we do the liuing The prayers of a Friar and an Archbishop It cannot be shewed that the dead heare vs. Deuices of the Schoolemen to shew how they heare vs. God not like an earthly King In their Saint-inuocating they Platonize Men equalled with Christ Chap. 14. More touching the worship of Saints The same words vsed to Saints that are to God The formall reason of worship The harsh praiers made to Saints how excused Nauarres forme of deuotion Counterfeits bearing the name of Fathers S. Austines doctrine to vse no mediator but Christ Chap. 15. The Iesuits insolency censured Note bookes A relation shewing how the Iesuites traine vp their nouices to dispute The doctrine of the Iesuites touching formall lies and equiuocation The Repliars motion to Protestant Ministers answered Chap. 16. Touching assurance of grace and beleeuing a mans owne saluation Perfection of the Scripture and necessity of the Church Ministry How the iustified conclude their saluation from the Scripture The iustified haue the assurance of faith This is declared full assurance voide of doubting taught by the most in the Church of Rome Touching perseuerance Chap. 17. Concerning points fundamentall and not fundamentall the distinction expounded and defended Who shall iudge what is fundamentall and what not A iest at the election of Pope Leo the x. Chap. 18. Touching the perpetuall virginity of Marie The celebration of Easter The baptisme of infants The Iesuits halting And the Scriptures sufficiency Chap. 19. How the Church proues the Scripture The Iesuites plainely confesse that the Scripture alone proues it selfe to be Gods word The Scriptures are principles indemonstrable in any superior science All other testimonies resolued into the testimony of the Scripture Touching euidence and the compossibility thereof with faith Chap. 20 A continuation of the same matter touching the Churches authority in giuing testimony of the Scriptures The Scripture proues it selfe to be Gods word The light of the Scripture How we are assured of the Scripture by the Spirit The reason why some see not the light of the Scripture The Papists retyring to the Spirit And casting off the Fathers A Councell is aboue the Pope The Pope may erre Chap. 21. Which is the Militant Church And the Catholicke The Church of the elect inuisible A rancid conceite of the Iesuite Chap. 22. Reports made by Papists that the Protestants are without religion They hold the iustification of the Gentiles without the Gospell or knowledge of Christ No saluation but in one true religion The Repliars tergiuersation Chap. 23. Touching the implicit faith that is taught in the Church of Rome How defined by them In what sense the Protestants mislike or allow it Arguments made for it answered The ancient Church allowed it not Chap. 24. Touching the necessitie and nature of the Rule of faith And how it is reuealed and communicated to all men that none need to despaire Chap. 25. The text of 1. Tim. 2.4 God wils all men to be saued c. expounded The diuerse expositions that are giuen of those words Gods antecedent will as they call it is not his will formally The antecedent and consequent will of God expounded diuerse wayes Chap. 26. The properties of the rule of faith described None follow priuate spirits more then our aduersaries How the Rule must be vnpartial and of authority Chap. 27. The Repliars tergiuersation The state of the question touching the sufficiencie of the Scripture alone and the necessity of the Church ministery The speeches of diuers Papists against the perfection of the Scripture In what sence the Scripture alone is not sufficient Chap. 28. Touching our English translations of the Bible their sinceritie and infalliblenesse How
the vnlearned know them to be sincere The new translation lately set foorth by the Kings authoritie defended Momus in his humor The subordination of meanes Chap. 29. Touching the obscuritie of the Scripture The necessitie of meanes to be vsed for the vnderstanding of the Scripture proues not the obscuritie Traditions debarred A Councell is aboue the Pope The Scripture of it selfe easie to all that vse it as they should The certaine sence of the Scripture and the assurance thereof is not by tradition Chap. 30. Touching the all-sufficiencie of Scripture to the matter of faith It shewes it selfe to be Gods word Luthers denying S. Iames epistle How the Papists expound the light of the Scripture What they and what we hold about the authoritie of the Church How expresse Scripture is required Chap. 31. Wherein the place 2. Tim. 3.15 alledged to proue the fulnesse and sufficiencie of the Scripture alone is expounded and vrged against the Iesuites cauils Chap. 32. Touching priuate spirits that expound against the Church Such priuate expositions refused by the Protestants And yet the Papists haue no other All teaching is to be examined euen by priuate men Certaine propositions shewing how the Church teaching may be or may not be examined and refused Chap. 33. How a priuate man is assured he vnderstands and beleeues aright touching the last and highest resolution of faith Luthers reiecting the Fathers Occhams opinion that no man is tied to the Pope or his Councels The Beraeans examined the doctrine that they were taught The faith of the beleeuer rests vpon diuine infused light M. Luther sought reformation with all humilitie Scripture is the grounds of true assurance Who the Pastors were of whom Luther learned his faith His conference with the Diuel By the Church the Papists meane onely the Pope Chap. 34. The Papists pretending the Church haue a further meaning then the vulgar know The Popes will is made the Churches act Base traditions expounded to be diuine truth Chap. 35. The Papists pretending the Church meane onely the Pope How and in what sence they vnderstand the doctrine of the Apostles to be the rule of faith They hold that the Pope may make new articles of faith And that the Scripture receiues authoritie from him Vnlearned men may see the truth when the Pope and his crew sees it not And they may iudge of that they teach The Iesuites dare not answer directly Chap. 36. An entrance into the question touching the visibilitie of the Protestant Church in the former ages Wherein it is briefly shewed where and in whom it was Chap. 37. Not the Church but the Scripture is the rule The question touching the visiblenesse of the Church proceeds of the Militant Church In what sence we say the Militant Church is sometime inuisible The Papists thinke the Church shall be inuisible in the time of Antichrist Their contradictions touching Antichrist breefly noted Chap. 38. The Papists cannot proue the Church to be alway visible in that sence wherein we denie it The diuerse considerations of the Church distinguished His quarrels made for our doctrine touching the Churches seuerall states answered The faithfull onely are true members of the Church Vpon what occasion the question touching the visiblenesse of the Church first began Chap. 39. The Papists are enforced to yeeld the same that we say touching the inuisiblenesse of the Church Their doctrine touching the time of Antichrists reigne And the state of the Militant Church at some times Arguments for the perpetuall visiblenesse of the Church answered In whom the true Church consisted before Luthers time Chap. 40. Againe touching the visiblenesse of the Church and in what sence we say it was inuisible Many things innouated in the Church of Rome The complaints of Vbertine and Ierome of Ferrara All the Protestants faith was preserued in the middest of the Church of Rome A iest of the Terinthians What religion hath bred desperation Chap. 41. A narration of a popish Doctor and professor of diuinitie in the Church of Rome translated out of Acosta de temp nouissimis lib. 2. cap. 11. and Maiolus dies canicul tom 2. pag. 89. and inserted for answer to that wherewith the Iesuite reproches our Church in the last words of his precedent replie Chap. 42. An obiection against the Repliars Catalogue Diuers articles condemned by the Fathers mentioned in the Catalogue that the Church of Rome now vses What consent there is betweene antiquitie and papistrie Chap. 43. Whatsoeuer the Fathers of the primitiue Church beleeued is expressed in their bookes The Repliar is driuen to say they held much of his religion onely implicitely What implicite faith is according to the Papists The death of Zeuxis The Fathers writ that which cannot stand with papistrie Chap. 44. The whole Christian faith deliuered to the Church hath succeeded in all ages yet many corruptions haue sometime bene added how and in what sence the Church may erre A Catalogue assigned of those in whom the Protestants faith alway remained What is required to the reason of succession Chap. 45. The Fathers are not against the Protestants but with them Touching the Centuries reiecting of the Fathers The cause of some errors in the Fathers Gregories faith and conuerting England The Papists haue bene formall innouators How they excuse the matter Chap. 46. The errors broached by the later Diuines of the Church of Rome Their errors maintained by that Church and their writings to good purpose alledged by Protestants How that which they speake for the Protestants is shifted of One reason why we alledge their sayings That which is said in excuse of their disagreement answered Chap. 47. Councels haue erred and may erre What manner of Councels they be that the Papists say cannot erre It is confessed that both Councels and Pope may erre Chap. 48. Touching the Councels of Neece the second and Frankford How the Nicene decreed images to be adored What kind of Councell it was And what manner of one that of Frankford was Frankford cōdemned the second Nicene Touching the booke of Charles the Great and of what credit it is Chap. 49. The ancient Church held the blessed Virgin to haue bene conceiued in sinne The now Church of Rome holds the contrary Chap. 50. Touching Seruice and praier in an vnknowne language The text 1. Cor. 14. expounded and defended against Bellarmine The ancient Church vsed praier in a knowe language Chap. 51. The Church of Rome against all antiquitie forbids the laie people the vse of the Scripture in the vulgar language The shifts vsed by the Papists against reading spitefull speeches against it Testimonies of antiquitie for it The Repliars reason against it Chap. 52. The mariage of Priests and Bishops lawfull and allowed by antiquitie Some examples hereof in the ancient Church The restraint hereof is a late corruption Priests were maried euen in these westerne parts a thousand yeares after Christ Chap. 53. Wherein is handled the doctrine of the Church of Rome touching the
they to whom this was commanded The Apostles and their successors And who be these successors He that now holds the first sea of Rome he that holds the second of Constantinople he of Alexandria and Antioch and he of IerusaleÌ„ This is the fiuefold top that is the power of the fiue Patriarkes of the Church in their power is the iudgement of diuine doctrines This man and his name stands in l Menolog Grae Nouemb. 11. tom 4. Bibl. SS Patrum the Greeke Kalendar in his time to fit the controuersie depending betweene the student and me thought all the Patriarkes together to haue the right of iudgement and not he of Rome alone which shewes that it is true which the Cardinall of Cusa m Cusan conc l. 2. c. 12. writes that by custome of mens obeying him he hath gotten beyond the bounds of ancient obseruation And so the head being departed I hope the bodie stayed not behind A.D. And § 11. where he affirmeth Pag. 28. that Protestants haue the Scripture in manifest places free from all ambiguitie for their side 4 If this be not true say directly why do you teach most blasphemously that the Scripture is so obscure so defectiue so dangerous for the people to meddle with Why do you forbid the people the reading of it in the mother tongue What Protestant if he would studie to do it of purpose can speake plainer then they against n Exod. 20.4 Deut. 4.15 images o Apoc 19.10 22.8 the worshipping of Saints p Act. 10.25 the Popes pride q 1. Cor. 14. Latin prayers and Seruice r Luc. 17.10 Phil. 3.12 Merit and perfection of workes Å¿ Psal 37.37 Apoc. 14.13 Purgatorie t Luc. 22.25 the Popes primacie u 1 Cor. 10 16. Transubstantiation w 1. Sam. 26.8 Rom. 13.1 Deposing and murdering Kings x 1. Tim. 4.3 Distinction of meates for conscience what finally can be spoken plainer in defence of y 1. Tim. 3.2.11.12 Priests mariage or to shew the Pope and his crew to be z 2. Thesâ—â—3 Apoc. 17.18 that Antichrist c. The Scripture therefore is manifest enough for vs but a Hos de expr Dei verb. our aduersaries haue a rule that the Scripture as it is alledged by Protestants is the word of the diuell and therefore be it neuer so manifest yet it must not be manifest when we alledge it A.D. And againe Pag. 28. that Protestants haue the principles of religion contained in the Lords prayer the Creed the ten Commandements leading directly to euery point of Protestancie and that for this reason the Church of Rome forbiddeth the reading and exercise of these things to the people lest they should see so much 5 As for example to pray to God alone and to no other for the Lords prayer teacheth vs to pray to him that is our Father to whom it belongs to forgiue vs our trespasses and whose is the kingdome the power and the glorie all prayers being to be made after this forme we are directly lead from praying to Saints to whom these things agree not to call on God alone Secondly the second commandement leades directly against image-worship and that is the reason why the Papists haue not onely forbidden the reading of it but also a In their Catechismes Van. Canis Ledesm Office of our Lady and other put it cleane out in their ordinary Catechismes Thirdly the Creed saying that Christ being ascended into heauen sits at the right hand of God from whence he shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead teaches plainly to beleeue that he comes not downe euery day to be eaten in the Sacrament vnder the formes of bread and wine In like maner we affirme these three the Creed the Lords prayer and the ten Commandements to be such a rule as serues to conclude in true and perfect consequence whatsoeuer we hold against our aduersaries and whether the Church of Rome haue not forbidden the people to vse them I referre my selfe to the times of King Henrie the 8 what time the people with incredible ioy and admiration first heard them in the English tongue I referre me to the manner of their praying mentioned b Ch. 12. hereafter which had not bene if they had bene permitted the vse of these things And because the Iesuite denies this let him say truly what incouragement haue they giuen the common people to reade the Scriptures to vse the Lords prayer and the rest in their mother-tongue to exercise themselues diligently in these things Let them shew vs the time when the words wherewith the benefite that hath ensued thereby No they haue reuiled and reproched these things and bred a hatred of them in the people and all to keepe them in ignorance my selfe continued many yeares in a parish where there were not a few Recusants and in all the number I did not in the time though I made triall of many finde one that could say and pronounce these things in the English tongue vnlesse he were which few were book-learned Among many other I came to an aged womans house and desiring her to repeate vnto me the Creed she said it in fustian Latin of that sort which I haue expressed c Ch. 12. a litle below and assaying to teach it her in English she answered that seeing her Latin creed had serued her turne to this age she would now learne no new And when I asked her who Iesus Christ was that the Creed said was borne of the virgin Mary she answered she could not tell but by our deare Ladie it is sure some good thing or it should neuer haue bin put in the Creed but what it is I cannot tell you for I was neuer taught so much my selfe This woman afterward heard me willingly and reioyced to heare the vnderstanding of these things and reported strange things of the barbarous ignorance and irreligion of those times wherein she was brought vp The experience that we haue of these things shewes how and in what sort Papists exercise their people in the principles of Religion and my owne particular knowledge hereof obtained by conuersing diuers yeares among them is such that all the Seminary Priests and Iesuites in England if there were ten thousand of them shal neuer outstare it with their great lookes A.D. And againe Pag. 28. that the ancient Fathers are for Protestants in expresse termes in all things that they held constantly and certainly with one consent and that in the principall points touching Scripture Iustification Merit of workes Images and all the rest they write most clearely with Protestants 6 This I shewed throughout my writing in euery point I stood vpon and if it be not so shrinke not but answer why haue you corrupted the writing of the Fathers d De vnit eccl in the Rom. Antw. prints and in all that follow them Cyprian to auoide his euidence against the
Pater noster But is Sir Minister so bold as to charge any that are well borne would to God Sir Minister had not seene Dianaes nakednes it would haue staied a great deale of barking that hath bene after him YET WHAT HE WRIT IS STIL TRVE IF ALL THE SEMINARIES IN ENGLAND HAD IT IN CHASE I wil seeke the disgrace of no mans person of any degree I know the countrey to haue many good Gentlefolke in it I onely report the barbarisme that Popery hath bred in such as follow it and though I haue no acquaintance or knowledge with all yet d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eustath Iliad the experience of some allowes me to speake as I do that this ignorance is general and the most yea of the better sort addicted to Popery are plunged in it 3 And that which the Iesuit reports my Country-man a maÌ„ of good esteeme place said of my booke is not greatly materiall supposing some Popish Gentleman or woman said so For besides himselfe whosoeuer he be that countrey hath many noble godly Gentlemen as good as he wherof some haue seene my Booke and reported otherwise both of it and me and it may be the Gentleman alleadged if he were well examined would prooue as learned as the Knight that Claudius Espencaeus e In 2. Tim. pag. 118. telles of who being demaÌ„ded his beleefe touching the holy Ghost answered he knew not whether there were an holy Ghost or no. And my comfort is that when this present place that I now write shall come into their hand they will call to minde the trauell I tooke among them with all instance and lenity to do good and the scandalous and lying reports wherewith Seminaries vse to defend themselues they know me and Seminaries and Popish Gentlemen and haue ability to compare vs one with another in the meane time I esteeme the man and his deposition alike he a man of no great esteeme that hath not so much as a name and will be commanded by a poore student to stand vpon the stage like a ridle for all readers to guesse at and his deposition is sutable when he taxeth a man with shamelesnesse and impudencie for noting that which a thousand to one will be prooued by his wife and possible by himselfe if they vse to say any praiers at all 4 Whereas I said also this generall barbarousnesse did abound in the people vntil it pleased God by the Ministrie of his Gospell to conuert them he replies that this seldome happens to sound Catholiks to be conuerted or rather peruerted by the Protestant Ministery I answer for let the truth be knowne in euery thing that I haue affirmed that the Protestant Ministery hath not bene fruitlesse among the people but hath most happily conuerted thousands and that countrey some part of it especially where the word hath bene more frequent yeelds at this day and long hath done as many and as sound professors of the truth as any part of our kingdome And in the backwardest part thereof many people haue ioyfully receiued the truth and acknowledged the errors wherein the guile of Seminaries haue holden them and many that appeared to be souÌ„d Catholiks haue done this I heard an aged yeoman after a Sermon effectually preached * At Gooznar neare to Prâ—ston in a parish where Seminaries most haunt when the preacher had done stand up in his seate and desiring his neighbours to make meanes to obtaine a competent Preacher into the place professe It was true the Preacher said and that his old religion as he termed it had allowed them to liue in all naughtinesse This sheweth that Popish superstition would soone be rooted out there and those locusts soone be blowne away if the word were effectually preached among them CHAP. XIII Touching praier to Saints 1. Mediation of Redemption intercessioÌ„ 2. BonaueÌ„tures Psalter 3. Christ the only Mediator of intercessioÌ„ 4. 5. 6. Reasons why we desire not the dead to pray for vs as we do the living 5. The praiers of a Friar and an Archbishop 6. 7. It cannot be shewed that the dead heare vs. 8. Deuices of the Schoolemen to shew how they heare vs. 10. God not like an earthly king 10. 11. In their Saint-inuocation they Platonize 12. Men equalled with Christ A. D. But let us see what M. White bringeth to giue credit to this his incredible narration Pag. 40. and to take away the wonder of his countrymen who admire his shameles impudency in relating home-matters so contrary to their certaine and direct knowledge This brutish condition of their people saith he may the better be credited and is lesse to be wondered at because the open practise of their Church giues them example and encourages them by their Idolatry and superstition towards the Saints departed For how can that people discerne their ignorance whose Pastours euen before their eies in their open Seruice and printed bookes serue the Saints and worship them with the same seruice that they giue to Christ This saith he I offer for the seauenth motiue to induce any Papist to suspect his owne religion For it cannot be the faith of Christ that takes his honour and giues it to another In their seruice and prayers the Virgin Mary is made an intercessour for sinne as if Christ were not the sole Mediatour vnlesse the merits and mediation of another did come betweene These are M. Whites words In which he frameth a farre more grieuous accusation against vs then the former as though not onely the common people or the most euen of our men and women well borne and brought vp for ciuill qualities and of good place in the countrey were in manner aforesaid brutishly ignorant but that the open practise of our Church giues them example and encourages them by Idolatry and superstition towards Saints departed in that in our open Seruice our Pastours serue the Saints with the same seruice that they giue to Christ taking his honour and giuing it to another and in our seruice and prayers making the Virgin Mary intercessour for sinne as if Christ were not the sole Mediatour c. A grieuous accusation assuredly if it be proued true and no lesse grosse slander if it be as I doubt not euidently to prooue it vntrue As concerning the lâ—st part of this accusation of the B. Virgin Mary being made intercessour as though Christ were not sole Mediatour I haue answered sufficiently in relating and refuting M. Wottons vntruths where I shew that Saints in heauen or men liuing on earth being made intercessours doe not hinder Christ to be sole Mediatour 1 THe Iesuite so relates and confutes my words as if I had onely obiected some small superstition in praying to the Virgin Mary and no more whereas the bare inuocating of her is the least thing that I stand vpon We vrge the praying to her in * They say she is God Dea mater Paul Cortes in sent pag. 65. Lips virg
Hallens Psalt Bonauent and yet to the Turkes they will deny this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ricold cont sect Mahum p. 122. 10. that manner that I set downe and the doctrine published touching her merits and mediation out of Dodechin Bozius Galatine and others whereby she is equalled with Christ and the monstrous impieties about friar Francis out of Bencius and Tursellin Iesuites the which stuffe and infinite other of the like nature is it we say giues example to the vulgar and which we thinke so odious that the Iesuite durst neither set it downe nor mention it in his booke least the world should see and abhorre it but onely occupying himselfe in defending the lawfulnesse of praying to the Virgin Mary as if I had obiected no more but that so he leaues in a manner euery thing vnanswered and touches not those fouler imputations that lie against him Neuertheles come we to that he sayes First he denies not but it were a grieuous accusation if it were true that in the Church of Rome the Saints are serued with the same seruice they giue to Christ the B. virgin Mary made an intercessour for sinne as if Christ were not the sole Mediatour and therefore he answers that in confuting M. Wottons vntruths he hath shewed that the making of Saints our intercessours hinders not Christ to be sole Mediatour a Pag. 14. of his Reply Because we do not hold Saints to be mediators of redemption but of intercession onely Meaning the ordinary distinction that is b Alexan. part 4. q. 92. in 1. art 4. Bellar. de Sancto beatit p. 718. 732. Grego à Valent tom 3 p. 1273. E. Rhem. on 1. Tim. 2.5 among them that Christ onely by nature being God and man and by office and merits reconciling God to man and needing no other to procure him grace with his Father is the first author of all the good we receiue from God but so that the Saints neuertheles pray for vs and as persons nearer God and more familiar with him then we commend our cause to him and so are mediators of intercession Whereto I reply two things First that more then this is ascribed to Saints in the formes that I alledge First God is inuocated by their merits and for them desired to giue eternall life yea the Mas booke hath a prayer c Breular Sarisbu fest S. Tho. Cantuar. that God by the blood of Tho. Becket would saue vs and bring vs to heauen When all effusion of blood and merit of worke whereby eternall life is obtained belongs to Redemption as well as to intercession and to no intercession but onely to Christs Next the holy Virgin is called our Life our Hope our Aduocate the mother of Grace our Sauiour our Redeemer Viega d Comment in apocal 12. pag. 584. ex Arnold Carnot sayes she is set aboue euery creature that whosoeuer bowes the knee to Christ should make supplication to his Mother also And I am of mind saith he alledging the words of another that the glory of the Sonne is not so much common with the glory of the Mother as it is the same and God hath in a sort giuen his mercy to his Mother and Spouse that reignes and so the B. Virgin hath the kingdome of God diuided betweene God and her These words import more then intercession Thirdly they say of her e These speeches are alledged in the praeface of the way that with her Sonne she disposes of rights With her Sonne she redeemed the world Her death was for the redemption of the world For her loue God made the world She is aboue Christ to command They are saued by her that cannot by Christ Francis the Friar is made equall to Christ All this is shewed at large in their words whereto the Iesuite replies nothing and it is * Macte Hyacinthe animo quicquid petiueris vnquam Me tribuente feres caelica virgo canit These verses are written in a medall of that sort that are drawne in papers and are common among Recusāts where Hyacinthus a Saint of Poland is portraied praying on his knees to the Virgin Mary and receiuing the answer from her that is contained in these two verses more then can be contained in simple intercession abstracting from redemption 2 If our aduersaries to these things would reply that they are the foolish deuotion of priuate persons which they maintaine not it were an end and we would charge them no longer herewith but they neither can nor will They cannot for the obiections are the practise of the whole Church set foorth in their publike Seruice bookes and open writings of the Iesuites and our ancestors in former times were trained vp in this deuotion Neither will they do it For first this Iesuite smoothes it vp and falls a distinguishing to defend it in generall which in particular for shame he durst not looke in the face Next all the bookes of their Church are full of these things f Printed at Venice Paris and Lipsia and now lately at Paris by Nicol. du Fosse ad insigne vasis aurei See Chemnit exam p. 595. inde Tilen syn tagm tom 2. p. 565. n. 24. Cassand cōsult pag. 156. and among other practises they haue transformed the whole Psalter of Dauid to the inuocation of Mary where euery thing that Dauid attributes to God is ascribed to her by putting his name out and hers in the roome In the end whereof all the other ordinary hymnes and readings of the Church are turned to her likewise And this booke was publikely vsed throughout the Church of Rome and beare this inscription The Psalter of the B. Virgin compiled by the Seraphicall Doctor S. Bonau the B. of Alba and Cardinall Priest of the Church of Rome 3 Secondly I answer that the mediation of intercession whereby our prayers are offered vp to God belongs to Christ alone And therefore the Church of Rome calling vpon Saints to pray for them and to commend their praiers to God if it did no more robs Iesus Christ of his office The antecedent that it belongs to Christ alone to make intercession offer our prayers to God is prooued for the Scripture sayes g Heb. 7.24 13.15 Let vs BY HIM offer the Sacrifice of praise ALWAIES to God Who hath an euerlasting Priesthood and therefore is able perfitly to saue them that come to God by him seeing he euer liues to make intercession for them h 1. Ioh. 2.1 If any man sin we haue an Aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust and he is the propitiation for our sinnes in which words we see that all authority and power of intercession is immediately attributed to him that is the High Prist of the Church and that intercession is founded vpon the Priesthood and those merites that he cannot be intercessour to mediate betweene God and vs in any sort that is not such a priest Againe touching the offering
vp of our prayers to God i Apoc. 8.3 it is said that an Angell came and stood before the altar hauing a golden Censer and much odours was giuen vnto him * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that he should offer with the prayers of all Saints vpon the golden Altar which is before the Throne And the smoke of the odours with the prayers of the Saints went vp before God out of the Angels hand The Angell that thus offers the prayers to God is k August hom 6. in Apoc. tom 9. pag. 670. Pri mas in hunc locum Beda in apoc tom 5 pag. 1085. Ambr. Ausbert in apoc vis 3. p. 53. Hunc multi Christum esse existimant Riber in apoc c. 8 3. Christus Angelus est habens thuribulum Viega ib. Iesus Christ the Angell of the couenant and it is affirmed of our prayers that he stands for that purpose to receiue them and offer them and that out of this Angels hand they go vp before the Lord. Nothing can be plainer then that of S. Paul l 2 Tim. 2.5 There is one God and one Mediatour betweene God and man the man Christ In which words he affirms as well that there is but one Mediatour of intercession as that there is but on redeemer for they containe a reason why we should pray for all men because there is one mediatour that would all men should be saued by whom we haue accesse to God by praier Therefore he sayes but one Mediator to intercede for vs the which S. Austine resolutely concludes out of this place m Cont. epist Parmen l. 2. c. 8. p. 32. tom 7. saying If Paul were a Mediator his other fellow Apostles should be Mediators also and so there should be many mediatours and Paule should be against himselfe where he saies There is one Mediatour of God and men the man Christ not onely affirming him to be one Mediatour but so to be one that he alone makes intercession immediatly from our selues to his Father no other interceding betweene either God and vs or himselfe and vs. 4 Against this he replies 2. things The first is n Reply pag. 14 his answer to M. Wotton whither he referres me also that the making of Saints to be Mediatours of intercession robbes Christ of his office no more then the making liuing men in like manner Mediatours of intercession But this latter to make liuing men Mediatours of intercession robs not Christ of his office Iac. 5. v. 16. Rom. 15. v. 30. because S. Paule and S. Iames make liuing men Mediatours of intercession one of them bidding vs pray one for another and the other intreating men to pray for him ergo neither the former when we make Saints departed our Mediatours of intercession The Proposition he prooues Because there cannot any substantiall reason of difference be assigned why those that pray to Saints to pray or make intercession to God for them do more rob Iesus Christ of his office then those that pray liuing men to pray or make intercession to God for them To this I answer there are 3. reasons assigned why it is lawfull to vse the praiers of the liuing rather then the inuocation of the dead First it is an vnchangeable rule that no man in Gods worship exceede the limits of his commandements o Deut. 12.8 vlt. Ye shall not do euerie man what seemes him good in his owne eies but whatsoeuer I command you take heed you do it thou shalt put nothing thereto nor take ought therefrom p 1. Co 4 6. That no man presume aboue that which is writteÌ„ Now that we may intreate and vse the praiers one of another so long as we liue it is q Gen. 20.17 Eoxd 32.11 Numb 16.48 1. Sam. 12.23 Mat. 5.44 2. Cor. 1.11 Ephes 6.18 1 Tim. 2.1 Iac. 5.14 written and r Rom 15.30 Iac. 5.16 the texts alleadged by the Iesuit will shew in which regard by an improprietie of speech and equiuocally the Saints liuing in this world Å¿ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nazianz. pag. 36. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nicet pag. 536. Multi enim Sanctorâ—â— mediationis ministerio vsi sunt Cyrill Alexand thesaur pag 156. are called Mediatours the which commandement or allowance concerning the dead can no where be shewed in all the Scripture The Censure of Collen t Pag. 230. saies The Scripture no where teaches the inuocation of Saints though notwithstanding for all that it be to be receiued and beleeued and in u Antidid g. pag. 43. another booke the same Diuines say the Gospell indeed hath giuen no peculiar commandement touching this matter though it may euidently enough be gathered out of it but with such gatherings we are well enough acquainted when the same Diuines in that place are faine to gather it from Christs words vpon the crosse Eli Eli Lammasabacthani Eckius though according to his fashion he brag there are innumerable passages of the old and new Testament making for it * Enchirid. c. 15. ad 8. yet confesses there is nothing expressely to be found in the Scripture that Saints must be inuocated and he addes that this inuocation of Saints ought not to be expresly deliuered either in the old or new testament for 2. reasons Which he shewes at large and they plainely declare he thought there is no commandement for it in all the Bible Suarez the Iesuit x Tom. 2 in Tho disp 42. sect 1 pag. 434. puts the question Whether the Saints departed before Christ did pray for others and answers that in particular they could not whence it followed that in that time praiers could not regularly be made to soules in that state and that any man in that time directly praied to the Saints departed that they would helpe them or pray for them we no where reade y De Sanct. beatit c. 19. §. item exod c. 20. §. Atque ex his Bellarmine agrees with him that the Saints in the time of the old Testament were not inuocated because they were not yet in heauen Salmeron another Iesuit z In 1. Tim 2. disp 2. ar 7. §. primum saies there is nothing touching this matter to be found in any of the Epistles Seeing therefore the Scriptures teach us to desire the praiers one of another so long as we liue together in this world but not afterwards this is one sufficient reason why the praies of the liuing one for another are allowed and not the inuocation of the dead 5 Another difference is that the inuocation of the dead vsed in the Church of Rome wherewith my words charge it is not like the praying of the liuing one for another For a Eorum qui sunt in hoc muÌ„do aut in Purgatorio suffragia non imploramus orando sed à viuis petimus colloquendo Tho. 22. qu. 83. art 4. ad 3. who inuocates the liuing who praies God by their merits to saue
vs where is there among all the Texts that can be alledged one rule or example that we should pray thus to a liuing maÌ„ as they do to a Saint Saue me ô Sauior redeeme me ô redeemer and as is the praiers that I alledged If one of the theeues vpon the Crosse when our Sauiour died should thus haue praied to b Ioh. 19.25 the holy Virgine standing by as the Friar lately did in France when he was to be executed for murdering a man to haue his wife c The praier of a Friar vpon the scaffold when he died for a murther in France an 1609. Boter comment l. 16. p. 300. But ô thou the solace of such as are in miserie our Loadstarre in the middest of this raging sea the aduocate of men the Arke of the Testament the altar of sinners by thy suffrages ô Virgine effect with thy Sonne that I may haue my desire would the Iesuits I maruell commend his deuotion as the reporter doth the Friars zeale or if this example fume into the Iesuits head were it lawfull for a man vpon his death-bed to inuocate the liuing standing by as the d Fra. Ximenius of Toledo Gomec de reb Ximen l. 7. pag. 242. great Archbishop did the dead when he died himselfe to be his Patronesse All the Saints but aboue all the mother of God Michael the Archangell Peter and Paule Iames and S. Francis or if at an open Sessions at the Councell of Trent Sato or Mus or one of the Friars should haue begun hs Sermon with a praier to Cardinall Barrhomaeo sitting by mutatis mutandis as e Stephanus Arch. PatraceÌ„s in conc Later sub Leo. p. 621. an Archbishop sometime began his at the Councell of Lateran with his f Omnium spleÌ„dot decus perenne Virginum lumen genetrix superni Gloria humani generis Maria Vnica nostri Sola tu Virgo doÌ„inaâ—s astris Sola tu terrae maris atque coeli lumen inceptis faueas rogamus inclita nostris Vt queam sacros reserare sensus qui lateÌ„t chartis nimiuÌ„ seueris ingredi celsae duce te benignae Maenia terrae inuocation of the Blessed Virgine O blessed Charles our Churches hope and glorie of our fading light The best of all our Cardinals in Consistory shining bright Thou onely shewest the way that leads to heauens blisse vertues lore Thy life our safest loadstarre is to guide vs to the heauenly shore I pray thee giue me of thy grace and fill me with thy verities that I may boldly speake in place and beate downe Luthers heresies If I say the Friar should haue made such a prayer to him would not his fellow Cardinals haue enuied his deitie thought that inuocation would haue come soone enough after his death when he had bene Sainted The liuing therefore are not praied vnto nor intreated to pray to God or make intercession for vs nor any waies made mediatours by their intercession and merits as the dead are for that were against the office of Christ but only as feeling members of this state that see and know the wants each of other and that haue a calling from God thereto they ioyne their praiers to the rest of the body no mans merits or aduocation being interposed but euerie one with and for others immediatly flying to Iesus Christ 6 A third reason why it is lawfull to intreate the praiers of the liuing rather then the dead is for that the liuing whoÌ„ we intreate to pray for vs vnderstand and see our particular wants and are in state to take knowledge of our desire to be praied for as when Saint Paule bad the people pray for him they heard and vnderstood him what he desired which the Saints in heaven departed though full of glorie and great indowments do not And here it is not enough to bring coniectures and with shew of wordes and disputations to leade our iudgement as in this cause our aduersaries haue taken great paines to pull vpon themselves a learned error but afore I can pray in this fashion to the dead with faith if all other difficulties were cleared I must haue a sure ground in my conscience that they heare me And he that will perswade me to beleeue they do must not come with Iffs and And 's and Metaphysicall speculations and the seeming opinions of men but with that which may bring full assurance and may support faith as the Holy Ghost doth g 1. Tim. 1.15 This is a true saying and worthie of all men to be receiued h Ioh. 4.22 We worship that we know i 2. Cor. 4 3. We approoue ourselues to euery mans conscience Let it be made thus sure vnto vs that when I pray the Saints heare me and it shall willingly be receiued and beleeued This reasoÌ„ doth not immediatly proceed to shew that praying to the dead robbes Christ of his office but onely that it is against faith which being shewed thence it will easily be concluded that then Christ is robbed of his office because all prayer against faith is against Christs mediatorship in some part of the latitude thereof Now if it so please the reader let vs see what assurance the Church of Rome can giue that the Saints know our praiers 7 First it is cleare that in all the Scripture there is nothing to prooue it but the contrary For k 2. Reg. 22.20 wheÌ„ Iosiah should die God told him his eies should not see the euill which he would bring vpon Ierusalem And Salomon l Eccl. 9 5. saies the dead know nothing at all And m Es 63 16. the Prophet in a praier he makes to God saies Thou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of vs and Israel knowes vs not the which texts shew manifestly that the dead haue as little knowledge of our state here as we haue of theirs there Or if it were otherwise God would somewhere haue reuealed it especially the reuelation thereof being so necessary for the confirmation of this point touching inuocation which n Superfluum videtur abeis ordinariè petere vs pro nobis oreni quia non possunt ordinariè cognoscere quid agamus in particulari Bellar. de purgat l. 2. c. 15. §. praetere a animae by the Iesuites owne confession is in vaine where they do not ordinarily as in Purgatory heare our prayers the which for the most part being seated in o Plerunque hoc negotium plus gemitibus quam sermonibus agitur plus fletâ— quam affatu August epist 121. c. 10. the heart and thence immediatly without any noise of words ascending vp who can vnderstand them but he that searches the heart which Philo p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Philo iudae pag. 328. Paris sayes is the musicall and loud instrument of our voice and is heard by no mortall creature but onely by him that is immortall and vnbegotten 8 Secondly our aduersaries could neuer giue themselues satisfaction
in the point They haue raked together a See them in Serrar LitaneÌ„t p. 141. inde Bellar. de Sanct. beat â— c. 20. a number of waies whereby they thinke to expound themselues but still they are vncertaine And their waies vnsufficient to stablish their owne conscience as appeares by the multiplying of their questions b The knowledge of our prayers supposed to be brought them by Angels and other Saints is disclaimed by Bellar. vbi sup yet Serrar allowes it Horum decem moderum nullus omnino est qui adhiberi aliquando non possit pag. 154. Whether the soules of those that are prayed to be present or not If they be present then whether it be really so that they be in the place where the party praying to them is or virtually onely by I know not what vnderstanding the things vttered to them in our prayers Or whether they haue the vnderstanding of our prayers from others that giue them knowledge If this way then who they be that giue them this knowledge whether the Angels that are about vs know our actions or God If it be God that giues them this knowledge then how he doth it whether immediatly by himselfe or by the ministry of others if by others then who they be whether Angels that are about vs or the spirits of holy and iust men that go from hence and tells the Saints in heauen what our prayers are If immediatly by himselfe then how whether directly formally c Oratio relucet in diuina essentia Tho. Argentin p. 178. ad 2. Beati vident in verbo deuotiones mentales Aquar in Capreol 4. d. 45. concl 2. Beati in coelo cognoscunt orationes nostras in verbo Ouand 4. d. 45. pag. 94. see Mag. 4. d. 45. ibi scolast communiter Tho. 22 q. 83. art 4. ad 2. 3. qu. 10. art 2. This seeing of things in the word as in a glasse is denied by many Schoolemen Deus est speculum voluntarium Occham 4. q. 13. art 3. Si quaeratur an beati cognitione beata cognoscunt orationes nostras dicendum quod non Duran 4. d. 45. qu. 4. p. 463. Intellectus creatus videndo diuinam essentiam non videt in ipso omnia quae facit deus vel facere potest Tho. 1. q. 12. art 4. Nostra sententia affirmat nihil ex vi visionis sed aliqua peculiari reuelatione cognosci Vasqu disp 50. n. 51. tom 1. idem Aureol quodl Alliac 1. qu. 12. art 3. so that they see in him as in a glasse by reason of the Beatificall vision what is in the creature and so consequently the prayers of the creatures if they see them in God as in a glasse then whether it be d Beati qui vident in verbo vident à principio Pezant 1. Tho. pag. 72. concl 2. Caâ—et 3. q. 10. art 2. from the beginning of their blessednesse so that instantly vpon their glorification and so soone as they come into heauen and see God they see all things that we doe in him or e Serrar sayes this is the most vsuall and certaine opinion p. 155. successiuely one thing after another But if God reueale the knowledge of our prayers to his Saints not formally in this manner by force and vertue of his vision but onely accidentally then whether it be not by f Dicendum quod essentia diuina non est necessarium speculum in repraesentando creaturas imo voluntarium Communicat enim effectiue notitiam matutinam Deus autem est agens liberuÌ„ respectu omnis actionis ad extra Aureol quodli 10. in sine p. 107 Non est imagi nandum sicut multi credunt quod causa videndi creaturam in verbo sit quia verbum est imago vel idea ipsius eodem actu quo videtur idea videatur ideatum sed quia voluntariè causat visionem creaturae Alliac 1. q. 12. pag. 184. This is followed by Vasqu vbi sup and it necessarily destroyes the â—lasse See Albertin Corol. qu. 4. 5. ex primo princip immediate reuelation so far foorth as it please him by his peculiar will to let them see what we pray as in this life he reueals sometime things that are secret to his Prophets It is incredible such as cannot be presented in any reasonable compasse of words how the Diuines of the Church of Rome labour to shew these things and to make euery man his owne opinion seeme most reasonable But to no purpose for albeit we acknowledge nothing to be impossible to God yet it is not lawfull to beleeue any thing as his will which he hath not reuealed For we must iudge of his will by the Scriptures which touching these speculations sayes neuer a word and being in manifest places appointed to pray in Faith how shall we pray to them of whose hearing vs wee can haue no Faith For these things thus taught by the Schoolemen relish well of mans wit and learning but what is there in the word of God to assure g Note the words of a Iesuite Notandum est quod est de fide beatos cognoscere orationes quas ad eos fundimus sed quod illaâ— videant in verbo non est certum de fide sed credo tamen esse probabile Pesant 1. part qu. 12. pag. 77. my conscience they be true 9 And were not the Church of Rome disposed to subuert the whole order of Gods worship and to rob our most gracious Sauiour of the Glory which for his boundles mercy belongs vnto him they would neuer maintaine this inuocation and mediation of Saints There being by their owne confession no Scripture for it and the Scripture speaking so graciously of Christ himselfe that it could proceede from none but the Diuell and Antichrist thus to make Saint-mediators when no creature in heauen or earth is so propense to mercy as himselfe See what the Scripture h Es 54.6 sayes The Lord hath called thee being as a woman forsaken and afflicted in spirit and as a yoong wife when thou wast refused saith thy Ged For a little while haue I forsaken thee but with great compassion will I gather thee For a moment in mine anger I hid my face from thee for a little season but with euerlasting mercy haue I had compassion on thee saith the Lord thy Redeemer For this is vnto me as the waters of Noah for as I haue sworne that the waters of Noah should no more go ouer the earth so haue I sworne that I would not be angry with thee nor rebuke thee For the mountaines shall remooue and the hils shall fall downe but my mercy shall not depart from thee neither shall the couenant of my peace fall away saith the Lord that hath compassion on thee i Es 65.24 Yea before they call I will answer and whiles they spake I will heare And our Sauiour himselfe hath told vs k Ioh. 16.23 Verily verily
Baronius takes him vp b An. 60. n. 20. You may see for it must necessarily be spoken his words are so full against our inuocation of Angels Theodoret by his leaue hath nothing happily attained the sence of Pauls wordes when in his Commentaries vpon this Epistle he sayes these things were written by Paule because heretickes then came in who boasted that Angels should be worshipped For who these heretickes were let him say himselfe and being once fallen into an error he stumbled presently vpon a worse that he sayes the Canon of the Laodicen Councell is to be vnderstood of such hererickes as taught the worship of Angels and erected an oratory to Michael the Archangel too inconsiderately attributing that to heretickes which of ancient time was done by Catholikes 11 This opinion of vsing the mediation of Angels and Saints departed arose from the Gentiles and specially the followers of Plato c Alcino de doctri Platon c. 15. pag. 79. Porphyr de abstinent animal l. 2. pag. 40. Apul. de deo Socrat. pag. 91. August De ciuit l. 8. c. 18. 19. l. 9. c. 9. whose doctrine it was that the spirits of men departed and Angels imploy themselues in carrying our prayers to God and therefore it is a good way to inuocate them Eusebius d Praeparat Euang l. 12. c. 3. p. 338. graec reports the wordes of Plato Certainely the soules of the Dead departed haue a certaine power and are carefull about the businesse of men These things are true but the reasons containing them are long it is the best way therefore to credite that which others haue reported concerning them the reports being so manifold and ancient The which words of Plato e lac Ziglir quem refert Chemnit Iesuitism pag. 100. cited sometime by a Papist as Eusebius owne to proue the inuocation of the dead shew not onely the affinity of the opinions of the Papists and Gentiles touching this point but also the foundation whereupon they both stand the ancient tradition of their elders Afore I leaue the point I must according to my professed method shew the confession of some Papists touching this matter f In 2. Tim. digr 17. pag. 118. Espenceus a Sorbonist Are they well and godly brought vp which being children almost a hundred yeares old that is to say old and ancient Christians do no lesse attribute to the Saints and trust in them then to God himselfe and thinke God himselfe harder to be pleased and intreated then they Would God I lied and there were no such g Consult pag. 154. George Cassander This false and pernitious opinion is too well knowne to haue preuailed among the vulgar while wicked men perseuering in their naughtinesse are perswaded that onely by the intercession of the Saints whom they haue chose to be their patrons and worship with cold and prophane ceremonies they haue pardon and grace prepared them with God which pernitious opinion hath bene confirmed in them as much as was possible with lying miracles And there is another error that men not euill of themselues haue chosen certaine Saints to be their patrones and keepers and put confidence in their merits and intercession more then in the merite of Christ so farre that the onely office of Christs intercession being obscured they haue substituted into his place the Saints and specially the Virgine his mother c. h In Augu. De ciuit l. 8. c. 27. pag. 494. Lodouicus Viues There are many Christians which most an end sinne in a good matter when they worship Saints both men and women no otherwise then they worship God and I cannot see in many that there is any difference betweene the opinion they haue of the Saints and that which the Gentiles had of their gods A. D. The which is more easily seene Page 4â— when as all the intercession which we craue Saints departed or liuing men to make for vs doth depend wholy vpon Christs merits and mediation and so to depend as acknowledged by vs when in the ordinary Collects of the blessed Virgine and other Saints vsed by our Church there is added per Christum Dominum nostrum through Christ our Lord. So that for this part of M. Whites accusation I need say no more 12 This is his second reason whereby he excuses praying to Saints and would make it seeme to be nothing against the Mediatorship of our Sauiour because they acknowledge the intercession of Saints to depend vpon the merites and mediation of Christ and therefore in their praiers and Collects to them there is added Per Christum Dominum nostruÌ„ Through Iesus Christ our Lord so that for this part of M. Whites accusation he need say no more but this answer is vnsufficient For first per Christum Dominum nostrum is added in none of their praiers vsed by their Church that I alledged nor in any of that sort as wil appeare to him that will take the paines to searâ—h their Primers and Portuisses That clause being added to praiers made to God where the merits and mediation of a Saint are mentioned therein but not in such praiers as are directed to the Saints themselues for then the abomination were greater to make Christ their mediator to a creature Next the adding of per Christum Dominum nostrum hath no place in their idolatrous protestations touching the merits and excellency of Friar Frauncis Friar Dominicke the holy Virgine and others to whom I shewed what monsters of merits they attribute making them equall to Christ himselfe The which may yet more fully be seene in their doctrine touching Friar Frauncis wherein Christ in all things that are written in the Gospell of him is paralleled with him in his Birth in the Prophecies forerunning him in his life temptations Disciples doctrine Miracles Transfiguration Passion Ascension and what not as may be seene in the Booke of his Conformities a An. 1590. at Bonony lately printed that we may know the present Church of Rome and the Pastors thereof at this day stand in the same damnable idolatrie which we hoped had bene but the priuate superstitioÌ„ of some paltry Friars That booke doth containe the most blasphemies against Christ that euer did any since Iulian and Porphyry gaue ouer writing and I do verily thinke that as the Diuell stirred vp of old b Philostrat vita Apolon Tyanae him that writ the like of Apollonius Tyanaeus thereby to ouerthrow the Gospell by writing a story of a damned Necromancer that should in all things match Christ the Sonne of Marie so the same Diuell set the Friar a worke to write this Conformity that the merits of Christ might be suppressed and a stinking idoll set vp in his steed and yet the same is newly set foorth and at this day by open c Henr. Sedul apologet pro li. conform Antuerp 1607. Apologies iustified But to leaue this Romane Alcoran what do they talke of the Virgine Maries intercession depending on
Christs merits and mediation who in their d Videtur quod probabiliter sustiners possit quod B Virgo etiam merito condignâ— meruâ—t esse mater Dâ—i filium Dâ—i concepisse Gab. 3. d. 4. q. vinc dub 3. Dico quod B. virgo arte incarnationem meruit filium Dei concipere merito congrui Bonauab art 2. q. 2. So others Maio. â— â— in fin Ricard art 3. q. 1. Alm. q. 1. dub 3. Marsil q. 5. art 3. dub 3. concl 2. 3. Abulens parad l. 34. 38. Of which some think the merit to be of congruitie some of condignitie They are loth to leaue roome for pure Grace in any thing that God doth for vs. schooles maintaine that she merited if not the Incarnation it selfe yet that Christ should be made man and born of her whereof it followes necessarily that there is some merit in her that is not founded on the merit of Christ but went before it because before he was in cause to merit she merited to be his mother Thirdly Christ hath by his obedience so merited all things for vs that he hath done it solely immediatly and incommunicably which are the three conditions of his merits and therefore he that but subordinates the merits of a creature to the merits of Christ robs him of his office in that his merits haue no condition to eleuate or aduance the merits of another to the making of intercession and the reason is because intercession being for the pardoning of sin and obtaining of infinite good cannot proceed by any merits but such as are infinite which are Christs merits alone And if the Iesuit vnderstand not this let him know that Christ is not only robbed of his office by denying his merits or not vsing them but also by vsing applying them otherwise then we ought and not rightly which is done when we beleeue him to be the root of all merit but other merits notwithstanding procure vs fauor and reconciliation and eternall life with God Therefore hauing prayed before By the merits of all Saints and the virgin Mary forgiue me my sin Per Dominum nostruÌ„ Iesum Christum will not mend the matter vnlesse it could be shewed vs out of Gods word that Christ had allowed vs so to pray and that his merits accompanie not our prayer to the end till they come to God but stop at the Saint and there giue authority to his merit to cary them forth to God and apply his grace vnto vs. Or if our Ladie haue any such authoritie yet let it be enquired whether the same commission be also extended to her girdle that Papists pray to in the same fashion they do to her selfe e Refert è Lippomann Iewel repl pag. 398. O blessed girdle make vs inheritors of eternall and blessed life and keepe our present life from destruction O pure Girdle of a pure Virgin preserue thine heritage let vs haue thee to be our strength and our aid our wall and our defence our hauen and sauing refuge CHAP. XIIII More touching the worship of Saints 2. The same words vsed to Saints that are to God 3. The formall reason of worship 5. The harsh prayers made to Saints how excused 6. Nauarres forme of deuotion 7. Counterfets bearing the name of Fathers Saint Austins doctrine to vse no Mediator but Christ A. D. Onely here resteth to examine whether we serue Saints or the blessed Virgin her selfe Pag. 41. in our open seruice with the very same seruice which we giue to Christ which if M. White could proue vs to do really and formally I would grant vnto him that it could not as he saith it cannot be excused from formall Idolatrie But if M. White for proofe hereof bring as he bringeth onely names titles formes of speeches c. seeming in sound to be the same which we attribute to Christ alone this his proofe is not a reall and formall proofe but an idle clamour and a verball quarrell For by the circumstance of our inward meaning commonly knowne both by our ordinary practise and publicke doctrine it is euident that we do not by these names titles and formes of speech attribute to Saint Francis or our blessed Ladie or to any Saint the same seruice or worship which we giue to our Sauiour but in a farre inferiour respect more or lesse according to the more or lesse inward estimation which we haue of their sanctitie dignitie and merit which we alwayes conceiue to be inferiour to and depending of the sanctitie dignitie and merit of our Sauiour Christ Which answer if M. White will not admit for good but do vrge that because the outward sound of bare words is the same therefore the honour and worship is the same I must tell him that he doth not vnderstand wherein the formall reason of honour and worship doth consist For although outward words and actions be the signes by which we outwardly yeeld honour and worship yet the chiefe thing wherein honour and worship do consist is the inward estimation and reuerence thereupon ensuing from which these outward signes proceed which inward estimation and reuerence being wanting outward signes be meere mockeries and not true honour and worship and the inward estimation and reuerence being present maketh those signes to haue in them the nature of true honour and worship in such difference of degrees as the inward estimation and reuerence shall be different as it may be and is ordinarily very different euen when the outward words and actions by which we expresse it are the very same in substance or similitude As for example we honour God when we kneele to him and call him Father and we honour our earthly parent by kneeling in like manner vnto him and calling him Father here the words and outward actions are altogether alike yet because the inward estimation and reuerence which we haue towards God and which we haue towards an earthly parent euen in this action of kneeling and in calling them by the same name Father are farre different Therefore the honour and worship done to God and done to our parent by this word and action are very farre different IN all this passage you see the Iesuite disclaimes nothing of that I obiected neither the maner of praying to the blessed Virgin and the Saints nor those idolatrous and lying speeches of Bernardine Bozius and Galatine concerning her nor the execrable narrations of Biel and his fellow nor the verses of Turcelline and Bencius nor Friar Francis his fiue wounds of Christ but presumptuously takes vpon him to iustifie them which is that I said in the Dedication of my booke that the Iesuites were bred in Chrysippus schoole a Laert. 〈◊〉 Chrysipp who vsed to make his boast that many times he wanted opinions to set abroach but if once he had the opinion he neuer wanted argument to defend it And by this the Reader may perceiue that the Iesuite could not say but I alledged the places truly which
they do to God I answer two things first granting that words and outward gestures are qualified and conditioned by the meaning of him that vses them as he that called the Prophet h 2. Reg. 2.12 13.14 my Father my Father meant not that hie degree of Honor that he did when he called God his Father and therefore I will not deny but Papists vsing these inuocations mentioned to the Saints may meane them otherwise then they do to God as for example calling the virgin Mary their Aduocate their Hope their Sauiour they may meane she is so not of her selfe but vnder Christ and not principally by her owne merits but subordinarily by the merits and grace of her Sonne This I will easily grant may be the meaning of their wordes but then I answer secondly that it doth not follow that therefore we may with such reseruation of our meaning in the same wordes inuocate and worship the Saints departed first because the said inuocation is diuine honour from what minde soeuer it proceed whether the Saint be called vpon as the supreme and eternal beginning or whether onely as the friend of God that by reason of his nearnesse to him can sooner intreate him then my selfe If he be inuocated with the titles of Aduocate Sauiour Redeemer though the intent be but onely to vse him as a friend to intreate yet this is diuine honour belonging to Iesus Christ For all prayer is diuine honour and such titles as are giuen them in their worship Mediator Hope Aduocate Confidence Sauiour Redeemer Ladie Queene of heauen c. exceed the measure of all ciuill reuerence and adoration whatsoeuer and therefore are not like the calling of our earthly parent father or kneeling to him Secondly the worshipping of a creature is idolatrie though he that worship it acknowledge it to be but a creature subordinate to God a thousand times because the commandement is i Mat. 4.10 Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onely thou shalt serue When the diuell tempted our Sauiour to fall downe before him he did not require him to perswade himselfe that he was Iehouah or that he had those things of himselfe for he confessed vnto him k Luc. 4.6 he had receiued them but onely that he would kneele vnto him and accept those things at his hands And our Sauiour refused it not onely because he was the diuell but also because the commandement forbids the giuing diuine honour to a creature with any opinion estimation or iudgement whatsoeuer l Apoc. 19.10 22.8 When S. Iohn would haue fallen downe and worshipped the Angell he was not so ignorant or stupid as to thinke he was God or to intend him that highest honour that belongs to God but onely by that office he wold present his loue to the Angell and possible procure some fauour at his hand yet the Angell forbad him by a reason that proceeds vnanswerably against the inuocation of all Saints See thou do it not for I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren which haue the testimonie of Iesus Worship God For it is a generall rule in the Scripture that no creature may with any estimation be worshipped with diuine honour A.D. If M. White insist and vrge Pag. 43. that outward words and actions are signes of inward meaning therefore where words and outward actions are the same towards Christ and towards his Saints at least ignorant people haue cause giuen them to thinke we haue the same inward meaning and so by our example are encouraged to commit formall idolatrie I answer that inward meaning is indeed gathered by outward words and actions ordinarily but not alwayes nor ordinarily by the bare outward shew of the action or by that precise sound of one or other word or sentence but by the whole connexion and circumstance of the matter and person about which the speech and action is and by the presupposed and knowne conceit of the partie which speaketh the said words or doth the action Now although in some of our prayers one or other word or sentence may seeme harsh as it is considered precisely in the outward sound especially to those that are not acquainted with the like as also to those who neuer had seen men kneele to any but to God himselfe nor to call any Father besides him it would seeme very harsh to see one kneele to his earthly parent and to call him Father yet when we consider the whole connexion of the words of our prayers hauing respect also to the different circumstances of the persons and matters spoken of and to the commonly knowne conceit of the speaker the sense of our prayers are found neither to be idolatrous nor superstitious nor scandalous none being ordinarily among vs so simple or ill instructed but they know that there is a different inward conceit and more estimation had reuerence done when the words are applied to our Sauiour Christ being God and man then when they are applied to Saints who are knowne to be not Gods but onely men 5 That which the Iesuite still assumes for his defence is still false He presumes that intending their prayers to the Saints no otherwise then they do they are lawfull And as long as God is confessed to be the first beginning of mercie and goodnesse and Christ the Mediator of redemption and the Saints no more but aduocates and friends to present our prayers all is well and those Saints may be inuocated as they are but the answer is that euen this kind of inuocation with no further opinion touching them is vnlawfull as I haue shewed And let the Reader alwayes remember that it is m Mat 6.9 Luc 11.1 Nam quaÌ„libet alia veil a dicamus nihil aliud dicimus quaÌ„ quod in ista Dominica oratione positum est si rectè congruenter oramus Quisquis auteÌ„ id dicit quod ad istam preceÌ„pertinere non possit etiamsi non illicitè orat carnaliter orat c. Aug. op 121. c. 12. Neque ensm propria tantuÌ„ orationis officia complexa cit venerationem Dei aut hominis petitionem sed om nem pene sermoneÌ„ Domini omnem commemorationeÌ„ disciplinae â—t â—â—â—era in oratione Breuiarium totius Euangelij comprehendatur Tertul. de orat c 1. no lawfull prayer that is not according to Christs rule When ye pray do it after this maner Our Father which art in heaueÌ„ c. Let your praiers be made to him that you may say is your Father that is in heauen who forgiues vs our sinnes and to whom belongs the kingdome and power and glorie for euer 6 But that which he chiefly intends in this place is to excuse the harshnesse and scandalousnesse of the words of their prayers albeit if a man should view them well he might maruell what excuse could be deuised for them Yet the Reply not onely excuses them that they must not be measured by their sound and outward
those songs nor determines what kinde of songs they were whether such as they vttered by miracle or ordinarie Psalms ordinarily vsed in all assemblies without miracle much lesse doth it proue that the custome was so to sing that there was no praier vsed besides whereas the Text is plaine I will sing and I will pray distinguishing two seuerall actions singing and praying And because Gretser answers that singing is praying therefore the saying Amen is mentioned which was not so properly vsed when they sang but when they prayed without singing For who vsed to say AMEN at a Psalme Besides he wills them to vnderstand what they do that vnderstanding they may be able to say AMEN now that which he would haue vnderstood is not the songs onely but the praiers also First because the reason why songs should be vnderstood holds in praiers also Secondly because Bellarmine confesses that in some part of this Chapter the Apostle speakes of praier and Church Seruice But whatsoeuer he speakes of he requires to be vnderstood for the reason why he speakes of all that he mentions is because the Corinthians vsed them when the people vnderstood not which abuse he reproues admonishing them to ioine vnderstanding with their gifts Their songs therefore their reading Scripture their collations their praiers and all must be vnderstood Therefore in this place of the v. 15.16 not spirituall songs alone are meant but the Church praiers and Seruice also because in other places it is meant If Bellarmine replie that S. Paul speakes in other parts of the Chapter of praier and Church Seruice but no where in the Chapter that they should be vnderstood who sees not the falsehood when the reason that drew him on to speake of them was the abuse that they were not vnderstood which abuse he corrects by willing them to vse them that they may be vnderstood a Antidot apost in 1. Co p. 723. 727. inde D. Stapleton therefore answers that the Apostle in this place speakes of prayer but not such praier as we ordinarily vse in our Church but such as they vsed by miracle and the gift of tongues and admits that he rebukes this but not that This is follie for giue a reason why he rebukes this It was because the people vnderstood them not The same reason holds in that For the people vnderstand not If the Apostle would take this reason to condemne the vse of a miraculous gift when vnderstanding went not with it of necessitie he must also condemne ordinarie praiers when they offend against the same reason b P. 724. D. Stapleton answers that praying by gift was ordained for the profit of others therefore it was meet it should be vnderstood but the Church Seruice he saith is not to teach the people but to inuocate God for the people which may sufficiently be done when they vnderstand it not I replie that the praiers in the Church Seruice are not onely to inuocate God for the people but for the people to inuocate God for themselues as appeares first because God hath appointed not onely the Priest to pray for them but with them and themselues to ioine with him in the praiers and with one mind and heart to vtter with him that which he pronounces which cannot be when they vnderstand not what he saies Againe the Church praiers are conceiued and pronounced not onely in the name of the Priest for the people but also in the name of the people for themselues Heare thy people that calls vpon thee ô Lord open our lips and our mouth shall set foorth thy praise and such like therefore there is the same reason why the people should vnderstand them that there is why the Priest should do it Thirdly its false that the Church praiers are not to teach the people For their end is not onely to intreate God a Ro. 8.26 but to teach how to do it with what affection with what contrition with what faith with what vnderstanding and to forme in the minde the signes of the things framed that their being may shine in the vnderstanding Which is not done when the praier is conceiued in a language they know not They may say AMEN with a kind of brutish deuotion * Carent tamen eo fructu quem perciperent si orationes eas quas ore proferunt etiam intelligerent nam speciatim intenderent animum mentem in Deum ab eo impetrarent speciatim ea quae ore petunt magis aedificarentur ex sensu suo earum orationum quas ore proferunt Carent ergo hoc fructu Contaren Christ Instruct interr vlt. but these sighs and gronings which ought to accompanie all praier they feele not the mind meditates not the sense of the words that are vttered nor contemplates nor penetrates the things that are necessarie in all praier by reason of which defect Card. Caietan b In 1. Cor. 14. §. Sed alter non aedificatur p. 158. sayes that by the doctrine of Paule It is much better for the edification of the Church that the publicke praiers in the hearing of the people be said in a common language then in Latine 5 Gretser the Iesuite to this point c Def. Bell. de verb. Dei l. 2. c. 16. saies that the Church praiers in Latine profite two waies First in that the Priest praies for the people Secondly in that they stir vp deuotion and affection in the people though they vnderstand them not and he seemes to affirme that other profit then this is not needfull to be sought in praier But this is false for neither do they stir vp the deuotion mentioned which being an act of the will cannot be formally exercised without knowledge in the vnderstanding going before nor is such deuotion as the profite that God hath ordained praier for taking this profite in the true latitude thereof For the end and vse of praier is not onely to kindle some kinde of deuotion but to bewaile and vtter our wants to him we praie to vnfold our sinnes with particular feeling to breed in our hearts remorse compunction repentance by opening our miserable state To informe our vnderstanding by frequent meditations To increase our faith c. in which regard we are required to be attentiue and diligent in the time of praier The Emperor Iustinians law was d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is the same that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Varin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nouell Justin pag. 181. that all B B. and Priests should celebrate the Seruice and praiers vsed in Baptisme not with a low but a loud voice which the people might heare whereby their minds might the better be stirred vp to vtter the praises of God Therefore diligent attention and eleuation of the minde being to bee brought by all that come to Church it is manifestly intended that they shall vnderstand what is said The Repliar I presume e Cum enim aliquis venit
worship stands not in rehearsing Latin words but when the people by those words learne to know Gods wil and their own duty and offer him vp the requisite motions of their hearts which in an vnknowne tong they cannot do And if secondly the Priest be to expound the meaning of that which is done in the Liturgy then they are bound to vse it in a knowne language both because they cannot giue the meaning without interpreting the language and that interpreting when it comes to execution and practise will proue farre more difficult and obnoxious to danger and inconuenience then the simple reading in a knowne language 7 Hitherto I haue stood to cleare the Apostles text that I alledged from the answers that Bellarmine hath made thereto But beside that text I shewed by a place in Origen a Cont. Cels l. 8 bidding euery man make his praier to God in a knowne language that it was the custome of the ancient Church to do seruice and pray in a knowne language And I produced the testimonies of Lyra Thomas of Aquine Caietan Erasmus and Cassander all of them great persons in the Church of Rome to the same effect and confessing also that it were better for the Churches edification to haue it so still What could I do more or what can an aduersary require more then by so sufficient witnesses to proceede in my assertion If I had said it vpon my owne word only by way of assertion he would haue bidden me proue it now I proue it by pregnant and full testimony he replies my authors disalow not our practise but he hath authors that shew it to be both lawfull and lawdable and referrs me againe to Bellarmine He had as good haue renounced his cause for these Authors first shew the custome in the Primitiue Church to haue bene to haue seruice in the common vulgar language that was best knowen whence it followes secondly that they affirme the Church of Rome to be swerued from it in this point as I said which is all I alledged them for Neuerthelesse because the Repliar thinkes to saue himselfe by saying they account not our practise vnlawfull let him consider well with himselfe why they should mention this alteration from the Primitiue Church if they had not in their iudgement disallowed it How can they say as they do b Lyr. Tho. Caiet Cassand Erasm cited in TEH WAY In the Primitiue Church it was otherwise By Saint Paules doctrine it were better for the Churches edification if the publike seruice of the Church were in a knowne language and not disallow the present practise if they durst haue spoken all they thought or could haue told how to helpe it I will adde two more testimonies and so end the point leauing the censure of my proceeding to the reader Isidore c De Eccl. offic l. 1. c. 10 pag. 3. The hearers are not a little edified by reading Therefore it behooues that when the singing is all sing * Oratio ipsa sit pinguiâ—r dum mens RECENTI LECTIONE SAGINATA PER DIVINARVM RERVM QVAS NVPER AVDIVIT IMAGINES CVRRIT and when praier is all pray and when the lesson is read it be indifferently heard of all and thinke not that it is a small profite that comes by hearing the reading for thy praier is made fatter when thy minde lately fed with reading runnes through the images or formes of those diuine things which it hath lately heard Where are these images of the things that he hath heard read who vnderstandes not the language Secondly I haue lying by me diuers ancient Liturgies intituled to Saint Peter Saint Basil Saint Marke Saint Iames Saint Chrysostome Clemens Gregory and others in all which it is set downe that the people shall answer the Priest at many periods which imports they vnderstood the language or else they could not answer Balsamon the Patriarch of Antioch a Ius GraecoruÌ„ l. 5. Respons 1. p. 365. interrog 5. to this question Whether the orthodoxe Syrians and Armenians and other faithfull men of other countries may without danger celebrate in their owne language or must be constrained to do seruice in the Greeke tongue which they vnderstand not answers The Apostle saies Is God onely the God of the Iewes is he not also the God of the Gentiles He is verily Let them therefore which hold the true faith in all things * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if they be ignorant of the Greek tongue do their diuine seruice in their owne language By this it appeares it was the custome of the Greeke Church to haue seruice in the vulgar language as by Isidore it is manifest the same custome was in the Latine Church till tyranny and heresie remooued it Our b Bell. c. 16. l. 2. foule mouthed aduersaries may call them schismatickes and heretickes but when they haue done their testimonies will remaine for sufficient recordes what was done in Gods true Church for 800. yeares after Christ CHAP. LI. 1.2 The Church of Rome against all antiquitie forbiddes the lay people the vse of the Scripture in the vulgar language 3. The shifts vsed by the Papists against reading Spitefull speeches against it 4. Testimonies of antiquity for it 5. The Repliars reason against it answered Pag. 280. A. D. Thirdly touching forbidding the laity to reade Scriptures and to haue them in the mother tongue there is no such generall prohibition among vs. 1 1. Pet. 3. v. 16. All that we say is that the holy Scriptures should not promiscuously be permitted to all men at least in dangerous times when men may by rash misinterpreting fall easily into errour and heresie running thereby into their owne perdition but that care should be had that the parties disposition be such as is like to take benefit and not harme by them The which our practise is not condemned by our Sauiour Christ or by the ancient Church but is most conformable to our Sauiours saying 2 Mat. 7. v. 6. Giue not the holy things to DOGS nor cast not pearles before HOGS Now care being had that the parties disposition be such as may take benefit by reading or hearing and no harme by rash misinterpreting we do not prohibite but with due order permit and wish the Scriptures euen in the mother tongue to be read and heard both by laie men and women That sentence of our Sauiour 3 Ioh. 5. v. 39. Search the Scriptures which is so often vrged hy Protestants doth not proue a necessity for all men immediatly to read the Scriptures For first these words were not spoken to all in generall but to Pharisies and Princes of the people Besides they either containe no precept as S. Cyril expoundeth or no absolute but conditionall precept or rather licence that since they would not beleeue our Sauiour himselfe they should or might search the Scriptures which themselues did admit Lastly if it were an absolute precept
speech of Purgatory or none at all and the Latines in the West Church did not all of them together receaue the truth of this matmatter but by little and little neither indeed was the faith either of Purgatory or pardons so needful in the Primitiue Church as now it is We neede no more then this confession of our aduersaries and testimony of the Greeke Church to shew the nouelty of this doctrine 3 And that which the Reply hath added in his margent Prayer for the dead which supposes the beleefe of Purgatory learned Protestants graunt to haue bene generall in the Church long before Saint Austines time is most weake for whatsoeuer learned Protestants say touching the antiquity of prayer for the dead which is impertinent now to be debated it is not true that the vse thereof supposes Purgatory which I will shew most euidently that the Reply may bewaile his cause when he sees no medicine applied to it can recouer or do it good For the Greekes praied for the dead and yet as you haue heard they beleeued not Purgatory And d See the Liturgies of Iames. Basil Chrysost and the rest in the praiers mentioned they praied for * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lit. Iacob the martyrs the B Virgine Iohn Baptist and for all the righteous from Abel to that day yet neither they nor the Church of Rome euer thought them to be in Purgatory Not the Martyres for e Bell. Purg. l. 2. c. 1. they are exempted by priuiledge Not f Rhem. on act 1. the B. Virgine for she had no sinne to purge but was carried immediately to heauen Not the iust from Abel to Christ for g Tho. Argenti 3. d. 22. art 4 p. 35. Gabr. ib. dub 3. Christ at his descent emptied Purgatorie It remaines therefore that their praying for the dead was not because they thought any to be in Purgatorie but by way of commemoration onely So sayes Cabasilas h Nicol. Cabasil exposic Liturg c 33. p. 503. in Bibl. S Pat. edit 1. in his exposition The Priest giues God thankes and offers supplication laying downe the causes of the thankesgiuing and the matter of the supplication The causes of thankesgiuing are the Saints The matter of the supplication are they who are not yet consummate but haue need of prayer For which Saints he offers this reasonable seruice as A THANKES GIVING to God and aboue all the rest for the B. Mother of God who exceedes all sanctity * Nihil pro eis orat Therefore the Priest PRAIES FOR NOTHING for them but rather praies to them that he may be holpen by their praiers * Haec quidem verba habent supplicationeÌ„ ostendunt autem etiam gratiarum actionem Deum praedicant These wordes containe supplication but shew thankesgiuing and praise God the benefactor of mankinde by remembring the persons whom he hath sanctified and almost consummated saying Giue vs the grace which already thou hast giuen the Saints to sanctifie vs as thou hast sanctified them before who are of the same kinde with vs. It was not therefore with an opinion of purgatory that the ancient praied for the dead but in expectation of the resurrection and in remembrance of Gods goodnesse toward them who had begun to glorifie them the consummation whereof they desired For it was a general opinioÌ„ of the Church of those times that the soules of the Saints departed saw not God nor should see him by beatificall vision till the day of iudgement in which regard they praied for the dead that their glorie might be consummate as all faithfull people pray for that good which they beleeue is to come the certaine fruition whereof they apprehend Bartlemew Medina writing vpon Thomas i Bart. Medin 12. qu. 4. art 5. p. 56. edit Bergom an 1586. saies that Almost all the ancient Fathers Iames in his Liturgie Ireneus Iustine Tertullian Clemens Origen Lactantius Victorine Prudentius Ambrose Chrysostome Augustine Theodorit Arethas Oecumenius Theophylactus Euthymius Bernard at the first sight but in the scanning of their wordes both he and the rest of his fellowes bewray it to be at the second sight too deny that the soules of the Saints see God vntill the day of iudgement The like is testified by k Sixt. Senens Bibl. lib. 6. ann 345. Perer. in Gen. l. 3 n. 45. Bellarm. â—e eccl triumph cap. 1. Vieg in Apoc. pag. 334. Riber ibi pag. 198. lun tom 2. pag. 1587. others the triall whereof the curious reader may see in Sixtus Senensis who hath collected together both the names and wordes of the Fathers to that effect that it is the vainest conceit that can be to imagine the ancient Church by praying for the dead intended a Purgatory when they assumed it for certaine that the dead came not into the presence of God till the last day l Luce clarius constat quia perfectorum animae mox vt huius carnis exeunt in celestibus sedibus recipiuntur Flor. Magistr exposit Missae pag. 65â— Which being an error no maruell if they erred in what they built vpon it nothing being sound that is built on a false foundation CHAP. LVIII 1. The Popes Supremacy 2. Single life of votaries 3. The worship of images 4. The Merite of workes 5. The sacrifice of the Masse 6. And the Popish doctrine touching originall sinne all of them innouations 5. The disagreement of Papists in their religion 7. And namely in their doctrine of originall sinne A. D. Secondly he names the Popes Supremacy which he 1 White pag. 376. saieth Pag. 288. began in Boniface the third But how false his assertion is appeareth by that which is shewed by not onely Catholicke but also Protestant Authors Thirdly he nameth Priests marriages to haue bene first restrained by Siricius This also to be false he may learne by 2 Concil Carth 2. can 2 see Prot. apol tr 1 sec 7 nu 3. the Councel of Carthage which signifieth that Priests were restrained from company of wiues long before Siricius his daies euen by the Apostles themselues Siricius might vpon occasion renew the prohibition as also Gregory the seuenth might but the first Authors of that doctrine or practise they were not Fourthly he nameth worship of images to haue bene first brought in by the Nicen Councell But this Councell was so farre from being 3 See Prot. apol tr 1. sec 3. n. 12. the first author of this doctrine as it expressely saith it followed in this point the doctrine of the holy Fathers and Tradition of the Catholicke Church in which the holy Ghost doth inhabite Concerning that which M. White saith 4 White pag. 378. Conc. Nicen 2. touching images see Bellarmine de imag C 8. Fiftly he nameth the doctrine 5 White p. 379. See Bellar. l. 5. de iustif c 2. 3 4 Greg. de Val. tom 2. disp 8. q. 6. p. 2. 4. of Merite of workes to haue begun lately by