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A75437 An ansvver to the nevv motions or, A serious and briefe discussion of certaine motions now in question. 1641 (1641) Wing A3427; Thomason E205_4; ESTC R15235 10,697 25

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they had Psalmes to sing at the Passeover the 113 114 115 116 117 118. accounted together to be a great grace unto the Passeover which our Saviour Christ observed and sung with his disciples Matth. 26.30 Fifthly to conclude prayers are not worse because they are stinted and in set words for Christ prayed thrice in one night using the same words Matth. 26.44 And taught his Disciples the set forme called the Lords Prayer saying Say thus For any exceptions you now take or take up against any materiall passages or Prayers in the book it selfe they are such as have often been answered by D. Boyes Hutton and others long since The sixth Demand Whether all Churches and people without exception bee not bound in religion to receive and submit unto that Ministery Worship and Order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church and whether any may receive and joyne to any other devised by man to the service of God and consequently whether they that ioyne to the present Ecclesiasticall Ministery Worship and Order of these Cathedrall and Parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the Word of God that they joyne to the former ordained by Christ and not to the later invented by man for the worship and service of God Answer YOu aske Whether people must submit to those things onely which are instituted by Christ or whether they may submit to the inventions of men In matters of substance and worship of God I say only to Christs institution but in outward circumstances the Magistrate hath authority to ordaine for comelinesse and herein not to obey him is the sinne of disobedience As to appoint with what action wee shall receive the Eucharist in what kind of bread in what kind of wine at what time of the yeer and how often in what apparrell it should bee ministred or such like But he may not alter matters substantiall and if he should therein we ought not to submit to any such command but we ought rather to undergoe the penalty inflicted on the deniall as to adore the bread with as much worship as we doe Christ to communicate in one kinde onely and such like which Papists have divised Now then consequently seeing wee keep the substance of Gods true worship according to his Word and in all outward things are a great deale nearer the rules of comely order and decency than you are They that joyne themselves to us may be assured that they joyne to a Church founded after Gods Word and so can they not be that joyne themselves to you seeing you set up unto your selves a new Synagogue And thus your Demands are satisfied Now then to come to a finall issue in this controversie If any of these faults bee in our Church or more of them than you can prove for I would yeeld you an Epha where you cannot prove an Omer yet have you no just cause of your separation from our Congregations so unnaturally to despise the wombe that bare you and the paps that gave you suck yea to separate from all the Churches in Christendome to a new handfull at Amsterdam witnesses against you are all those who dislike many things as you doe and yet communicate with us Who albeit by their rash dislikings they have been accessory to your fall yet herein they forsake you their consciences will not suffer them to fall utterly from the Church wherin both you and they have confessed that our doctrine is true and according to Gods word And herein I will convince you by as many arguments as you have proposed Demands 1 First the Jewish Church in the time of the Prophets was more corrupt than you can affirme of ours of which the Prophets doe affirme that there was no whole part from the bead to the feet that the faithfull City was become an harlot that they were princes of Sodome and people of Gomorra yet the same Prophets never forlook the fellowship of the Church but still reproving their faults did communicate with them in the Temple sacrifices and prayers as witnesse the history and writings of the same Prophets 2 The Church in our Saviour Christs time was worse than that possessed and ruled by Scribes Pharises and Saducees of which Christ said that the blinde led the blinde that they taught for doctrines the precepts of men that they made the word of God of no effect by their traditions that they made the house of Prayer a denne of theeves that they justified themselves in their owne righteousnesse that they devoured widowes houses under pretence of long prayers and therefore many Woes were pronounced against them Mat. 23. Notwithstanding all this our Saviour Christ before he took upon him his publick-Ministery was presented in this Temple before these Priests and there many offered their oblation before them Luk. 2.22 There and before them and amongst this people did Christ appeare with his Parents when he was twelve yeares old at the Feast of the Passeover then in the Temple he associated with the Doctors bearing them and asking them questions and affording them his answers Luk. 2.4.42 3 After that he took upon him his publick Ministery he usually repaired to the Temple at every of these three solemne Feasts and there taught daily and openly in the Temple Ioh. 2.13 Ioh. 18.22 he usually taught and healed in the Jewes Sinagogue amongst the people Luk. 4.15.16 he ever sought to purge Gods house but not to leave it for the zeale of Gods house had eaten him up Ioh. 2.17 but the hatred of Gods Church and house doth drive you from it 4 And as he used himselfe to communicate with the visible Church so he taught his to doe Mat. 23. saith he The Scribes and Pharises sit in Moses chaire therefore heare them and doe as they bid you but after their works doe not for they say and doe not and when he purged Leapers as Mat. 8.4 he sent them to shew themselves to these Priests to be judged by them and there with them to offer the gift which Moses commanded for a testimony unto them he taught his how they should offer the legall offerings aright before these Priests Mat. 5.23 24. If thou bring thy gift to the Altar and there remembrest that thy brother hath ought against thee leave there thine offering before the Altar and goe thy way first bee reconciled to thy brother and then come offer thy gift 5 And lest you should say that this was till Christ had finished all things and abrogated the Law as Christ did himselfe and taught others to doe so did his Apostles after the Passion and Resurrection for Act. 2.46 They continued daily with one accord in the Temple and Acts 3.1 Peter and Iohn went up together into the Temple at the ninth houre of Prayer that is at our three of the clock after noone which was the time of the Evening Sacrifice and Acts 3.20 As they were bidden of God they entred into the Temple and this they did daily Acts 5.42 Yea Saint Paul more particularly in the Temple purified himselfe with other brethren and they prepared their offerings to bee offered for every one of them before the Priests Acts 21.26 6 Yea lest you should say the Jewish Church had any prerogative the Apostles accounted those Christian Churches holy and to be communicated withall which yet were unperfect defective and reproveable in many things Saint Paul highly commended the Church of Corinth 1. Cor. 1. and yet reproved them in that Epistle of many faults both in doctrine and manners as carnall and schismaticall some holding of Paul some of Cephas some of Apollo Chap. 3. For suffering the incestuous man amongst them Chap. 5. For going to Law one against another under the infidels and for accounting fornication small or no sinne Chap. 6. For eating with offence to to the weak things offered to Idols Chap. 8.9 10. For abusing the publick Assemblies and the Lords Supper Chap. 11. For abusing the spirituall gifts to oftentation not to edifying Chap. 12 13 14. For denying the Resurrection Chap. 15. For some of them said there was no Resurrection vers 12. And yet notwithstanding before all these were amended yea before they were by him reproved in the first words of that Epistle hee giveth them the Title of Gods Church of Saints by Calling and such as were called to the fellowship of Christ to teach us how to think of Militant Churches upon Earth The like may be observed of the Church of Galatia and divers others 7 Lastly the doctrine of the Apostles is That the Church indeed is the Pillar and ground of truth because God will lead it into all necessary truth but yet that it may erre in matters of lesser weight as it is exemplified by Churches to which they wrose their Epistles That the Church is spotted in her selfe but without spot or wrinkle by acceptance in Christ Ephes 5. and see every particular man and member of the Church that hee is partly flesh and partly spirit unperfect in himselfe but perfect by the Grace and merits of Christ So Saint Iohn in the Apocalyps seeth the seven Churches of Asia in Christs presence as seven golden Candlesticks and the seven Angels thereof in Christs right hand as seven Starres chap. 1. yet against every one of them both Churches and Angels he hath somewhat in the Epistles which he wrote unto them Chap. 2.3 to teach us to esteem men and Churches not by their own imperfections but according to that grace and estate which they have obtained by the mercy of Christ Wherefore I wish you beware in time take heed lest the Serpent which seduced Eve doe also deceive you even whilst you thinke with her to become like Gods consider that this your Covenant of Separation may be a sinne of presumption Remember Abraham your Father and Satah that bare you so that with better consideration you may returne to your Mother the Church againe and keepe with her the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace which God grant for Christ his sake Amen FINIS
our Calling into the Ministery c. bee those which Christ appointed It is easie to demand much you should rather have shewed your particular dislikes But I answer that they are Our Calling hath that Ordination which the Apostles used and S. Paul appointed Timothy and Titus to use viz. by the imposition of the Bishops hands and of the other Ministers that are present at that action for they also lay on their hands juxta manum Episcopi by the Bishops hand according to the antient Canons And before this we have the election and approbation of the people or of the cheife of them whereby wee are commended to the Bishop as you may know by the Law of Patrons and of Iustices and of Neighbour-Ministers whose commendations are necessary before any be made Minister or admitted to any place in the Church For our Administration it is of Gods Word and of the two holy Sacraments and of publick Prayer all which the Minister ought to doe Other Administration have we none unlesse you meane Marrying and Burying which perhaps you mislike that the Minister should doe them but why I know not For Marrying God himselfe first acted it and brought Eve to Adam Gen. 2. And Christ said after of all Marriages Quos Deus conjunxit c. Those whom God hath joyned together c. Who then fitter to doe this in the place of God and in his name than he that is his Messenger and in his stead For Buriall it is the field and Seminary of the Resurrection and who fitter for sowing than hee that is Gods Sower And for our Maintenance it is by Tithes better than yours by Almes for it was so before the Law and under the Law and under the Gospel as soone as the Magistrate was Christian And your Almes onely used in time of Persecution when no better could be had For where the Ministery shall have no Maintenance but what must bee at the mercy of his Auditory how apt is hee to smooth humour and subscribe to such and wave their darling and pleasing sinnes in whose power it is to deny him sustenance were there no other reason for the independency of his Maintenance The fourth Demand Whether the Sacraments being Seales of righteousnesse which is by Faith may bee administred to any other than to the faithfull and their seed or in any other manner and ministery than is prescribed by Iesus Christ And whether they be not otherwise administred in the Cathedrall and Parochiall Assemblies at this day in England or no Answer THe Sacraments the Seales of righteousnesse are onely to bee given to the faithfull and to their seed or to such as seeme to be faithfull as Iudas Simon Magus Demas and such like and to no other are they given in the Church of England for if any bee profane un-holy or notoriously wicked the Minister is by Law to repell them Neither are they given with us in any other Ministery than Christ hath appointed unlesse you you meane the Baptizing by Midwives which in our Church is not approved nor now any where practised Neither are they given in any other manner unlesse you meane hereby externall and variable circumstances as kneeling at the Eucharist and such like as I thinke you doe And then I answer you to receive it kneeling is most fitting and decent seeing it is an Action of more humility and devotion than standing or sitting is At the first they received it sitting or rather lying and leaning for Saint Iohn then leaned on Iesus breast as their manner was then to eat But this is no more perpetuall or necessary than to receive it at night or after Supper for these were then used according to the present occasion Even as many circumstances were used in the Passeover at the first institution in Aegypt which should not bee perpetuall as the sprinkling the doore with blood their not going out of their houses that night their eating of it standing with loynes girt and staves in their hands all which as mutable ceased in the land of promise The fifth Demand Whether the Booke of Common-Prayer with the Feasts Fasts and Holy-daies stinted Prayers and Lyturgie prescribed therein and used in these Assemblies be the true worship of God commanded in his word or the device and invention of man for Gods worship and service or no Answer YOu aske whether the Book of Common-Prayer be Gods worship or the Invention of man It was thus composed by men godly and learned men and many of them Martyrs of Christ The doctrine thereof is according to Gods Word a book as fit and full of edification in the Prayers and Administration of Sacraments as possibly can be devised or made The things that you here dislike in it are Feasts Fasts and Holy-dayes stinted Prayers and Lyturgie In our Feasts and Holy-dayes first observe that wee have none to Legend Saints but Christ his Apostles the blessed Virgin and Saint Iohn Baptist Secondly that wee worship no Saints in those dayes but praise God for them who made them profitable to his Church Thirdly it is lawfull for the Church to appoint such dayes to glorifie God in For in time of the Macchabees the Church appointed an Anniversary Feast of Dedication of the Altar after they had rid the Temple from Antiochus his profanation 1. Mac. 4.59 And our Saviour Christ himselfe observed it Iohn 10.11 Fourthly that the observation of such times is very ancient and generall for in the first Generall Councell of Nice there was great question about the day whereon Easter should bee kept but not a man either in the Latine or Greek Church but then thought it meet to be kept so farre was the Church then from your nicety In the Prayers and Lyturgie you here finde no other fault but that they are stinted and set Prayers for you would have no Book at all nor any forme of celebrating Holy things nor any set Prayers but all voluntary at every Pastors discretion If this fancy should take place not onely every Minister would vary from himselfe but one would agree with another like Germans Lips Nothing is more needfull in holy things than conformity so the forme be good But to speak onely of stinted and set Prayers which fault you find First in the Temple the booke of Psalmes was their Psalter or set Prayers for they were appointed to bee used continually and are set to certaine orders of Priests and to certaine times and instruments for daily use as the Hebrew Inscriptions of all the Psalmes doe testifie Secondly the Priests had a solemn set forme of Prayer which they used when they solemnly blessed the people the words are prescribed Num. 6.23 24 25. The Lord blesse thee and keepe thee the Lord c. Thirdly they had a set forme of Prayer in the wildernesse which they used when the Tabernacle removed Exurgat Deus Let God arise c. And another when the Tabernacle was pitched Let God returne c. Num. 10.35 Fourthly