A TRYALL OF THE NEVV-CHVRCH VVAY IN NEW-ENGLAND AND IN OLD Wherein are handled these Questions following 1. Whether a stinted forme of Prayer and set Liturgie be unlawfull 2. Whether it be unlawfull to joyne in Prayer or receive the Sacraments where a stinted Liturgie is used 3. Whether the children of godly and approved Christians be not to be baptized till their parents be set-members of some particular Congregation 4. Whether the parents themselves being of approved pietie ought not to be received to the Lords Supper untill they be first admitted as set-members 5. Whether the power of Excommunication c. be so in the body of the Church that what the major part shall allow that must be done though the Pastors and Governors and part of the Assembly be of another minde and peradventure upon more substantiall reasons 6. Whether those that are admitted as set-members ought not to depart or remove without the consent of that Congregation whereof they are members 7. Whether a Minister be so a Minister to a particular Congregation that if they dislike or leave him he utterly ceaseth to be a Minister 8. Whether a Minister may not performe ministeriall acts to another Congregation then his owne 9. Whether members of one Congregation may not communicate in another By that learned and godly Minister of CHRIST JOHN BALL of Whitmore Penned a little before his death and sent over to the New England Ministers Anno 1637. As a reply to an Answer of theirs in justification of the said Positions Now published by occasion mentioned in the Epistle to the Reader following in the next page upon the desire of many godly and faithfull Ministers in and about the Citie of London who love and seek the truth By WILLIAM RATHBAND and SIMEON ASH 1 Thes 5. 21. Prove all things hold fast that which is good LONDON Printed by T. Paine and M. Simmons for Thomas Vnderhill in Great Wood-street 1644. To the Reader Good Reader VPon the receipt of the Answer returned unto the Nine Positions Master Ball moved by the request of Brethren drew up this reply which upon perusall and joynt approbation was directed unto the reverend Elders of the severall Churches in New England The Reply sent miscarrying in the hand to which it was committed though both Letters and printed Bookes trusted in the same hand were delivered Hereupon another Copie was from New England desired and accordingly prepared in the yeare following In the meane time the Answer being tendered to the Presse it was judged more meete to keepe the Reply in readinesse to attend the publishing of the Answer then to part with it in the other way This intelligence was the last yeare conveyed into New England since which time there hath been an expectation to see that in Print which now is sent abroad to open view By this Relation it is manifest who are voluntiers and who are pressed to come forth as defendants in these Controversies These differences betwixt the loving Brethren of old England and New had not been made thus notorious if some who cry up the Church way in New England as the only way of God had not been forward to blow them abroad in the world But surely the providence of God is remarkeable in bringing these questions into debate at this time when the Ministers of the Gospell from all the Counties in the Kingdome are called together by both houses of Parliament to consult about the healing of our breaches which are very many and dangerous The Copie of this Reply being committed to our custodie we are necessitated to appeare in the publication of it yet we shall preface nothing concerning the Treatise it selfe because our known respects to the reverend and judicious Author will render us partiall and our testimony can adde no credit to his works which withall indifferent Readers will plead sufficiently for their own acceptance If this discourse shall adde any discovery of light unto them who desire a sound judgement in the controversies here agitated our end is obtained and our prayers answered who are Thy Servants in and for the truth Simeon Ash William Rathband The Letter of those Ministers in England who requested to know the judgement of their Brethren in New England in Nine positions wherein the reasons of this their request are truly reported Reverend and beloved Brethren WHiles we lived together in the same Kingdome we professed the same faith joyned in the same Ordinances laboured in the worke of God to gaine soules unto his kingdome and maintained the puritie of worship against corruptions both on the right hand and on the left But since your departure into New England we heare and partly beleeve it that divers have embraced certaine vain opinions such as you disliked formerly and we judge to be groundlesse and unwarrantable As that a stinted forme of prayer and set Liturgie is unlawfull That it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer or to receive the Sacrament where a stinted Liturgie is used 3. That the children of godly and approved Christians are not to be Baptized untill their parents bee set members of some perticular congregation 4. that the Parents themselves though of approved piety are not to be received to the Lords Supper untill they bee admitted as set members 5. That the power of Excommunication c. is so in the body of the Church that what the major part shall allow that must be done though the Pastors and Governors and part of the assembly be of another minde and peradventure upon more substantiall reasons 6. That none are to be admitted as set members but they must promise not to depart or remove unless the Congregation will give leave 7. That a Minister is so a Minister to a particular Congregation that if they dislike him unjustly or leave him he ceaseth to be a Minister 8. That a Minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another Cogregation 9. That members of one Congregation may not communicate in another These and other such like which we omit to reckon up are written and reported to be the common Tenents in New England which are received with great applause maintained with great confidence and applauded as the only Church way wherein the Lord is to be worshipped And letters from New England have so taken with divers in many parts of this Kingdome that they have left our Assemblies because of a stinted Liturgie and excommunicated themselves from the Lords Supper because such as are not debarred from it And being turned aside themselves they labour to ensnare others to the griefe of the godly the scandall of Religion the wounding of their owne soules if they did advisedly consider the matter and great advantage of them that are wily to espy and ready to make use of all advantages to prejudice the truth Beloved brethren if you stood in our places we are well assured it would be no small griefe unto you to beare and see the people led aside to the disgrace
abused may be cleer to any that shall consider that it is the same for substance that was used in the days of Poperty And therefore when the Papists in Devonshire and Cornwall had made a Commotion and Rebellion upon the change of Religion in the days of King Edward the Sixth It was told them by the King for the pacifying of them That it was the self-same Service in English which had been before in Latine and if the Service of the Church was good in Latine it remayneth good in English for nothing is altered Fox Acts and Monuments Edward 6. And Pope Pius the fifth did see so little variation in it from the Latine Service that had been formerly used in that Kingdome that he would have ratified it by his authority if Q. Elizabeth would have so received it And many of the people put such holinesse in it that they think God is not rightly worshipped nor his Sabbath well observed nor the Sacraments sufficiently administred if there be no reading of that Service And others put such holinesse and necessity in it that they preferre it before Gods holy Ordinance of preaching the Word In so much as the Ministers are in the danger of being called in question and of being censured if they doe not read that Liturgy every Lords day without omitting any part thereof either in respect of preaching or otherwise 3 In regard of the many wofull scandals and dangerous consequences of using that Liturgie of which we suppose you are not ignorant To mention but two Viz. The hardning of Papists who are imboldned to think better of their own Breviaries Masse-Books Portuisses seeing that Liturgie hath bin extracted out of those books and rather fetched from them then from the forms used in any of the reformed Churches 2 The conntenancing and establishing of an unlearned Idol Ministery of not-Preaching curates Non-residents Pluralities c. in whose skirts is to be found the blood of so many mens souls living and dying in their sins while they ignorantly content themselves with and harden themselves in some empty forms of Religion and blinde devotion which are begotten and cherished chiefely by such prayers and ministers Neither is there lesse scandall hereby we meane not onely taken but given then by the eating of an Idolathite in the Idols Temple condemned by the Apostle 1 Cor. 8. 7 10. For if the eating of an Idolathite by him that had knowledge and knew that an Idol was nothing and that all meats were lawfull did imbolden others to honour the Idol and therefore was a scandall given so also it is in this case 4 Seeing that booke is so imposed as that the minister in reading of it is limited to the very words set downe without any diminution addition or alteration therefore we dare not use it For 1 The Lord himselfe hath not limited his people to his own formes and therefore we see not how it can be lawfull to be limited to other mens formes For in thus doing we should subject our selves to the exercise of such an authority and power of the Prelates as in this case puts forth a stronger act of limiting power then Christ himselfe who doth not limit us to those formes which himselfe hath set downe in Scripture For though we acknowledge the Lords prayer and other formes set down in Scripture may be lawfully used as prayers due cautions being observed yet there is not a limitation lying upon the Churches in the use of those prayers And therefore we do not find that the Apostles ever used that form taught by Christ in those very words much lesse limited themselvs to it when they prayed nor did they teach the Churches so to doe 2 If the Lord would not have us limit our selves in our own forms whiles we are exercising our own gifts which he hath specially sanctified to edify his Church Act. 6. 4. Eph. 4. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 7. least we should quench or at least straiten his spirit in prayer 1 Thes 5. 19. would he then have us limited to other mens forms which have not beene in like sort sanctified of God but will rather quench or straiten the spirit of God whiles we are so limited to them 3 The entertainment of this form hath been a manifest snare unto the Churches who upon the same ground on which they have received this forme into the desks have beene limited to others in the pulpit by meanes whereof the poore Church of Christ hath bin wholly deprived of the publike use of the Ministers gifts in prayer and the spirit of prayer in the Ministers in publike hath beene greatly restrained As for our Judgement concerning the practice of others who use this Liturgie in our native Countrie we have alwayes beene unwilling to expresse our mindes there against unlesse we have been necessarily called thereunto and at this time we thinke it not expedient to expresse our selves any further concerning this matter as loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other Churches but contenting our selves with and blessing the Lord for those liberties which we by the mercie of God do here enjoy reserving also due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren and deere Countreymen who may concerning this matter be otherwise minded Reply THis position cannot beare that meaning which you give it if you take it according o our mindes and the plain construction of the words We never questioned why you made not use of a stinted Liturgy much lesse why you did not wholly and in every part tye your selves unto and approve of that forme in use amongst us You might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth such a demand viz. whether you thinke it lawfull to approve in others and practice your selves what swerveth from the rule and we thinke it strange you should give our words such a meaning The thing we craved resolution in was whether in your judgements all stinted and set formes of prayer and Liturgies be unlawfull The reason hereof was because in writings from New-England we had seene all set liturgies and set formes of prayer condemned as devised worship which God would not accept and partaking in the Sacraments of the Supper in our assemblies therefore disallowed because administred in a stinted Liturgie which things were received with such likeing among some brethren with us and by them imparted and recommended to others that they occasioned that rent and distraction whereof we complain It is true the people among us separate from our forme of prayer or liturgy but the reason hereof is because it is stinted not because this or that or ours in particular You confesse you want not some brethren among you who look at all set formes of Prayer invented by one of another age or congregation and prescribed to their brethren to be read out of a booke for the prayers of the Church as Images and Imaginations of man forbidden in the second Commandement and that the lawfulnesse of Liturgies and set
devoured widowes houses taught the Law but practised it not when they were such and did such things they were ungodly Ministers But we never find that the Prophets our Saviour the Apostles did either forbeare themselves or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship We reade our Saviour charged his Disciples to beware of the leaven of the Scribes and Pharisees to let them alone because they were the blind leaders of the blind but he never forbade to communicate with them in the ordinance of God It is not then for private Christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinance of worship and communion of the Church because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of God whom they judge or know unfit when men joyne in the worship of God with unworthy Ministers they doe not countenance them in their place and office but obey the commandement of God who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes To goe no further then the text you quote Because thou hast despised knowledge I will also reject thee c. Properly the text is spoken of the ten tribes called Israel and the Priests among them who worshipped the Calves which Ieroboam had set up whom the Lord threatneth to reject because they had rejected knowledge being either wilfully ignorant or withholding the truth in unrighteousnesse Whether they were for the present absolutely rejected or the Lord threatens only to reject them we will not dispute This may suffice that it is not to be found either in this or any other Text of Scripture that the people joyning in the true Worship of God with unworthy Ministers do countenance them in their place thereby On the contrary if you will extend this Text to all unworthy Ministers of what sort soever whom the word of truth doth condemne as not approved Ministers of God the Scripture teacheth evidently not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office but that they must and ought to joyne with them in the worship of God and in separating from the Ordinance they shall sinne against God much lesse then do they in such joyning set those Idols and meanes of worship which God never appointed in his Word For the worship is of God and the Ministery is of God the person unworthily executing his place is neither set up by some few private Christians nor can by them be removed And warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of God because such as ought not are suffered to entermeddle in the holy things of God they have none from God Dumbe Dogs greedy Dogs Idol-sheepheards false Prophets Strangers are unworthy Ministers but they that communicate with such in the ordinance of worship are never said to set up Idols or means of worship which God never appointed The sheep of Christ will not heare strangers in the Lords sense but outwardly they heard those strangers preach if the Scribes and Pharisees were such and by hearing them discovered them to be strangers i. e. false Prophets Some strangers at least of whom our Saviour speaks were of the true Church and of Israel but brought false doctrine tending to kill the soule such strangers none should heare that is believe and follow but as they be tolerated in the Church so they may hear them so long as they bring the truth Unworthy Ministers are no Ministers for themselves but they are Ministers for the people of God that is so long as they be in the place of Ministers the acts of their administrations are of force to the faithfull if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by Christ for Christs Ordinances have their efficacy from him not from them that serve about them and evill Ministers minister not in their own name but in Christs and by his Commission It hath evermore bin held for a truth in the Church of God that although somtimes the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the Word and Sacraments yet for as much as they doe not the same in their own name but in Christs and minister by his Commission and Authority wee may use their Ministery both in hearing the Word and receiving the Sacraments neither is the effect of Christs Ordinance taken away by their wickednesse nor the grace of Gods gifts diminished from such as by faith and rightly doe receive the Sacraments administred to them which are effectuall because of Christs institution and promise although they be ministred by evill men The reasons whereby the ancient Churches condemned the Donatists and Catharists for their voluntary and seditious separation and the moderne Churches condemne the Anabaptists for their unwarrantable departure from and so renting of the body of Christ will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation because they are read by an ungodly minister The second proposition Where the whole Liturgie is used though by an able and godly Minister it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case Herein wee cannot be of your judgement for in the times of the Prophets and our Saviour Christ as great abuses no question were found in the Church of the Jews in the administration of holy things of God as can be imagined in our Liturgie or forme of prayer but the Prophets and our Saviour who taught the people to keepe themselves pure and undefiled never taught them to separate from the administration of the holy things of God And if the presence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by reason of the corruptions alleaged there can be no visible society named throughout the world since 200. yeeres after Christ or thereabouts wherein a Christian might lawfully joyne in Prayer reading the Scripture hearing the word or participation of the Sacraments For compare the doctrines prayers rites at those times in use in the Churches with ours and in all these blessed be the name of the Lord wee are more pure then they But no man will be so bold we hope as to affirme the state of the Churches within 200. yeeres after Christ to be so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sin hold communion with them in the aforesaid ordinances The prayers of the Minister whether conceived or stinted in a set forme be not his private prayers but the publike prayers of the whole assembly whose mouth he is to God both in the one and the other But you will not say the people ought not to joyne with their Pastor in the publique assembly if ought bee amisse in his prayer for matter or manner or both It is all one to the people in this case whether the fault be personall as some distinguish or otherwise knowne beforehand or not knowne For if simple presence defile whether it was knowne beforehand or not all presence is faulty And if simple presence defile not our presence is not condemned by reason of the corruptions knowne
the Virgin Mary Fourthly Put case the Minister in reading such prayers gives offence or attributes unlawfull honour to a thing abused to Idolatry and Superstition or suffer himself to be sinfully limited in the reading of them what is that to the faithfull This can be no just ground of the people 's not joyning with them in the worship of God for that offence is personall onely and not the sin of them that be present they joyn in prayer onely and not in his reading or limiting himself Not to say that every particular person must be herein both accuser and Judge If he give offence must they stumble at the stone and separate from the ordinance of grace wee should rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet that they goe not awry Let it be shewed out of the Word of God that either the Minister is guilty of giving unlawfull honour or that the people may lawfully withdraw themselves in case he should do so and we will then say as you do but untill that be proved being pressed and called to proffer our judgements we believe that separation is scandalous and sinfull never taught of God nor confirmed by the approved example of the godly in any age or time of the Church yea against the positive Law of God injurious to the Churches distracting Christians bringing contempt upon the Ordinances of God and defrauding believers of the spirituall food of their souls which is indeed to infringe their Christian liberty and what ever may be thought of it now in former times it hath been accounted no small offence Fistly if this and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of worship we must hold communion with no society under heaven For may not the brethren which hold all stinted Liturgies and set forms unlawfull say with like strength of reason It is unlawfull to joyn in conceived prayer with others if either they give too little honour to it as deeming the other lawfull or sinfully limiting or suffering themselves to be limited to one stinted forme though conceived at first by them selves And may not the brethren who hold a stinted forme lawfull in like manner object It is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them because they attribute too much honour to conceived prayer as making their device and method the worship of God And may not the Brethren which hold it lawfull to use some selected prayers according to the forms among us upon the same grounds condemne communion with both sorts and all of them one with another because they either limit themselves too much or too little You say in the exposition of the first position many Preachers constantly use a set form of prayer of their own making before their Sermons must you not say upon this ground that it is unlawfull to joyn with them because they sinfully stint themselves In probability a Christian may presume that in the publike worship of God there will be through humane ignorance infirmity somwhat amiss for matter or manner or both that upon this ground he must joyn with no society in any part of Gods worshipat all The advancing of every small difference to this height is that which will bring all to confusion if men walk uniforme to their own principles It is well observed by Master I. Da. that unlesse men will yield so much favour each to other in some difference of opinions a dissolving not onely of Churches but of humane societies also must necessarily follow not onely not two Ministers but not two men should live together which were to put off even humanity it selfe Sixtly wee have credibly heard that you hold fellowship with professed rigid Separatists without any acknowledgment of their errour and receive them as members or communicate with them in the priviledges of the Church though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice And if in godly wisdome you can see grounds to joyn with them we marvell you should be so timorous in this particular Seventhly if you judge the practice of such godly Ministers scandalous to them that separate from the ordinance because it is not administred in this or that but in a stinted form It is a scandall taken and not given and by forbearing if to confirme men in errour be to scandalize them they should offend them the more yea they should prejudice the truth and it might be an occasion to beget needlesse scruples in others and draw them ignorantly from the fellowship of the Saints in the holy ordinances of God and strengthen them who by your owne confession are run too far into Schisme already III POSITION That the children of godly and approved Christmas are not to be baptized untill their parents be set members of some particular Congregation IV POSITION That the Parents themselves though of approved piety are not to be received to the Lords Supper untill they be admitted as set Members Answ THese two Positions may be maintained with one and the same defence being somewhat coincident and therfore we joyn them as if they were but one Therefore to prevent all mistakes it may please you to take notice that we are not of their judgement who refuse all religious communion with such as are not Church Members nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledge of the seals only to the Members of our own Churches excluding all other Churches of Christ from the same though they may be through errour or humane frailty defective in some matters of order provided that the liberty of our Churches be preserved of receiving such satisfaction as is meet as well by Letters of recommendation or otherwise if it be requisite concerning those whom wee admit unto fellowship in the seals For as we account it our duty to keepe the unity of spirit inviolate with any in whom we discerne any fruits of the spirit so we hold our selves bound to discharge this duty according to order Spirituall cōmunion in prayers holy conferences other religious actions of like nature we maintain with al godly persons though they be not in Church order But Church communion we hold onely with Church members admitting to fellowship of the seals the known and approved orderly recommended members of any true Church But into fellowship of the censures admittance of members and choice of Officers onely the members of that particular Church whereof they and we any of us stand members These things being premised the considerations whereupon our judgement and practice is swayed for administration of the Seals onely to such as are in order of a true visible Church are these that follow Reply VVHat is here premised to prevent all mistakes doth seem more to raise then to abate scruples if we mistake not your meaning You refuse not all religious communion with all that are not Church members and so much they professe who formerly have gone for and professed themselves Separatists from our Assemblies You
you as siding from the truth with by-respects whereof you complain verily we abhorre such rash harsh and presumptuous notoriousnesse we see as much cause to suspect the integritie of our own hearts as yours and so much the more as being more privie to the deceitfulnesse of our own hearts then to yours And we cannot but with much thankfulnesse of heart acknowledge the many rich precious treasures of his grace wherewith the Lord hath furnished sundrie of you above your Brethren which causeth us with great reverence to accept and receive what further light God may be pleased to impart unto us by you But as we have beleeved so have we hitherto practised and so have most of us spoken this our Answer to your particulars most of us we may say because there wants not some Brethren amongst us who proceed further even to looke at all set formes of Prayer invented by men of another age or congregation and prescribâ—d to their Brethren to be read out of a book for the prayers of the Church as Images or Imaginations of men forbidden in the second Commandement But as we leave them to their libertie of their own judgements without prejudice so do we also concurre with the rest of them so farre as we all goe in bearing witnesse against any set formes or the corruptions in them In dispatching whereof we have been the more slow because it behoved us first to inquire into and to settle some controversies amongst our selves before we could well attend to entertaine discourse about forraigne questions which do not so neerely concerne our present estate and practise Besides your Letters being sent to the Ministers of the Churches and some of us dwelling farre a sunder it was not an easie thing for all of us often to meet together to consider of these Questions much lesse to resolve upon one just answer But having at length by the assistance of God brought our Answers to this issue we commend it to the blessing of the Lord and in him to your Christian and judicious consideration where if all things bee found safe and duely warranted from Scripture grounds do you also as seemeth vigilant Watchmen of the Lords flock and faithfull witnesses to God If any thing seeme doubtfall to you consider and weigh it very well before you reject it If any thing appeare to be unfound and dissnant from the Word which we for our parts cannot disterne we shall willingly attend to what further light God may send unto us by you In the meane while wee intreat you in the Lord not to suffer such apprehensions to lodge in your minds which you intimate in your Letters As if we here justified the wayes of riged separation which sometimes amongst you we have formerly borne witnesse against and so build againe the things we have destroyed you know they separate from your Congregations as no Churches from the Ordinances dispensed by you as meere Antichristian and from your selves as no visible Christians But wee professe unfainedly we separate from the corruptions which we conceive to be left in your Churches and from such Ordinances administred therein as we feare are not of God but of men And for your selves we are so farre from separating as from no visible Christians as that you are under God in our hearts if the Lord would suffer it to live and die together and we looke at sundrie of you as men of that eminent growth in Christianitie that if there be any visible Christians under heaven amongst you are the men which for these many yeeres have been written in your foreheads Hoiinesse to the Lord which we speake not to prejudice any truth which our selves are here taught and called to professe but we still beleeve though personall Christians may be eminent in their growth of Christianitie yet Churches had still need to grow from apparent defects to puritie and from reformation to Reformation age after age till the Lord have utterly abolished Antichrist with the breath of his mouth and the brightnesse of his comming to the full and cleare revelation of all his holy Truth especially touching the ordering of his house and publick worship as a pledge of this our estimation of you and sincere affection to you we have sent you these Answers to your demand and shall be readie by the help of Christ to receive back againe from you wise and just and holy Advertisements in the Lord. Now the Lord God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ your Lord and ours lead us all unto all Truths purge out all Leaven out of his Churches and keepe us blamelesse and harmlesse in his holy Faith and feare to his heavenly kingdome through him that hath loved us In whom we rest Your very loving Brethren the Elders of the Churches in New-England Reverend and dearely beloved Brethren IT is not to be doubted but while we live here we shall have just cause to search and try our ways look back upon former courses and call things done to more strict examination For being over-clouded with ignorance compassed about with infirmities and beset with many temptations to sinne knowing what we know best but darkly and in part no marvell if in many things we offend ignorantly of frailty for want of due consideration rashly mistaking Errour for Truth condemning Truth for Errour suspecting evill without cause and not suspecting where is just reason drawing erronious conclusions from sound principles and maintaining truths upon weak grounds so that in examination of our wayes and endevours of their Reformation wee had need to looke warily that wee turn not to the right hand or to the left for in the one we add to the Word of God as well as in the other and of our selves are apt to strike aside to both A loose conscience will be profane a tender scrupulous It stands us therefore upon to have our selves in suspition in as much as experience teacheth that many have swerved from the path of found peace and comfort on each hand Wherefore Beloved Brethren if since your comming into New England upon serious Review of former actions you have discovered any truths heretofore not taken notice of we shal be so far from rejecting them because of your former judgment and practice that we shall heartily desire to know and imbrace the same with you and blesse God for you as the happy instruments of his glory our Instruction the advancement of the truth But if the discoveries be of the like nature with the positions mentioned in the Letter as before so still we conceive them to be new opinions and not warranted by Scripture which is the true Antiquity Opinions we say not practices for not changing your opinion you might lawfully alter your practice nay what you did tolerate formerly as a burthen in case not free you might well forgoe being at your liberty Your judgement being the same you might use your liberty in forbearance of a set Liturgie and yet retaine
the same judgement of a stinted Liturgie that you had before you might forbeare for a time upon speciall Reason such as present state and occasion might suggest to receive to the Sacrament approved Christians not set members of a particular Congregation as some Brethren do who yet dare not think it unlawfull to communicate with such in the act of worship or deem it just and right altogether to debar them as having no right nor title to those priviledges of this Church It is your opinions whereto we had respect not simply your practice It never entred into us to perswade you to a set Liturgy much lesse to complain that you had not accepted ours But that all stinted Liturgies should be condemned as devised worship and so condemned as that none may lawfully be present at or pertake of the Sacraments administred in a stinted or devised forme this wee called a new opinion Neither do we mention it because we knew it to be the private opinion of some Brethren among you whom we had left to the liberty of their owne judgment so far as the maintenance of the Truth and a just call did not ingage us but because it was cryed up and advanced with all diligence and endeavour of some among us standing affected England-ward as if a chief point of holinesse consisted in separation You know how great a fire a little sparkle kindles And seeing this Distraction and Rent had its originall growth and continuance from some Brethren in those parts or affected to that way when in loving and friendly manner we could neither receive grounds at home for our conviction nor procure just satisfaction to the contrary what could wee doe lesse then call upon you joyntly to know your judgment and either by sound proof to be by you convinced if happily you should approve their separation which we esteem groundlesse rash unlawfull and prejudiciall to outward peace or being backed by a testimony of its dislike from you we might the better be both incouraged and furnished to endevour the quenching of that fire which was kindled but in too many places In other perticulars also wee conceive you goe beyond Commission given of God granting them authority to whom God hath not committed it debarring others from the priviledge of the Sacraments who have title thereto by the Covenant of grace Your love in that you were pleased to signifie first your kinde and respective acceptance of our Letter and now also to send us an answer thereto we acknowledge it with all thankfulnesse and shall endevour through the grace of God to return like affection in truth of heart if in measure we fall short Of your respect to us in particular we make no question your expressions are beyond that we could expect as also what we dare own But we humbly beseech the Lord to direct uphold and guide us that in some measure we may walk worthy of our vocation and approve our selves faithfull to your consciences It was one end of our writing to be satisfied in this point whether you approve the ways of Separation whereof wee complain and their courses who laboured with all their might when they conceived hope to be heard to perswade thereunto Against which if we knew your judgment you testified among us You know they that separate are not all of one straine and temper Some deny all communion with us publick and private some admit of private but deny all publick and some joyne in Prayer before and after Sermon as also preaching of the Word because in their esteeme this may be done without communion in a Church-way but refuse to partake of the Sacraments All which Separations wee judge uncharitable contrary to the Commandement of Christ and have ever thought that you whilst with us and we were of one minde herein If of late we have conceived fears of some of you deere Brethren as leaning too much to what formerly you disliked we beseech you weigh what urgent and pressing Reasons forced us thereunto and we shall most gladly wee heartily desire you to rest assured lay hold of every line and syllable that may tend to dislodge such apprehensions For as we conceive the dispute to be unreasonably moved the Rent offensive the opinions themselves prejudiciall to the cause of God and the advancers thereof to have passed the limits prescribed by God so wee shall esteem it an inestimable blessing if now what hinders being removed wee might joyn with one heart and soule in one way of God to promote his glory and seek the good of his Church and people We trust in the Lord we should not draw back in any course wherein wee may see the Lord going before us nor be an offence to any to keep the Lords way wee seek the truth and are perswaded it is the cause of God which we defend we plead for Communion with the Churches of Christ no further then they hold communion with Christ still desiring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace with your selves and all others who walke in the right way of truth peace and comfort How the Lord may be pleased to deale with us or dispose of us wee know not his blessed will be done But of this we are resolved through his grace not willingly to raise trouble or dissention among you if through ignorance or infirmity we shall not so fall in as to be of one minde with you in these matters And here we desire you to consider that in these particulars you dissent as much one from another as we dissent from you and that wherein we dissent from you and perhaps from the lesser part of you you dissent from the judgement and practice of all Reformed Churches This wee speake not to prejudice your cause but to intreat your serious re-exmination of what you have sent us and this tryall thereof by the Touchstone of the Word For if we mistake not in many things it will not abide the Test You have written in great love and tendernesse that your Positions might be so scanned and wee shall endeavour with such affection to try all things and hold fast that which is good And now beseeching the guidance of the Spirit with your leave wee shall endeavour to deale fully and plainly as the nature of the cause requireth intreating you impartially to consider the grounds whereupon we go and weigh what wee shall say in the ballance of the Sanctuary The Lord of his rich mercy in Jesus Christ direct us in discerning what is right and pleasing in his sight Cast offences out of the Church close up Rents and Divisions reveal his Truth more and more set up and mayntain the purity of his own Ordinances unite the hearts of his people to the love and feare of his holy Name teach us self-deniall and keep us blamelesse to the comming of the Lord Jesus Christ Amen I POSITION That a stinted forme of Prayer and set Liturgie is
unlawfull Answ BEfore we proceed to declare our selves concerning this position It will be needfull that some things be premised for the explication of the terms thereof We suppose 1 By a Liturgy and forme of Prayer you mean not a forme of private Prayers composed for the helpe and direction of weaker Christians but the System or body of publike Prayers generally used in the English Parishes complied for the Churches use by other men not infallibly guided by God to be said or read out of a Book by their Ministers as the Churches Prayers And that this is your meaning may appeare from your Letter it self wherein you complain that divers in many parts of that Kingdome have left their Assemblies because of a stinted Liturgy Now we know not of any other stinted Liturgy from which the people do absent themselves but onely that which is in use in the English Churches For as for a forme of Prayer in generall wee conceive your meaning cannot be of that For it is evident that many Preachers constantly use one set form of Prayer of their own making before their Sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyn 2 By stinted and set you mean such Prayers as are so imposed upon the Churches and Ministers as that they are limited to that very form of words expressed in the Book without addition diminution or alteration for that Liturgy and forme among you is in this sense set and stinted 3 By unlawfull you mean that we looking at that form as swerving from the Rule neither dare first practice it our selves not secondly approve the use of it by others This being the true state of the question so far as it appears to us from the letter We answer 1 For our own practice the Churches here doe not use any stinted forme of Prayer and set Liturgy for these and other such Reasons 1 Because we finde no necessity of any stinted Liturgy to be used among us by vertue of any divine precept And seeing the Commission of the Apostles limited them to teach men to observe and do onely what Christ did command them in matters of this nature Math. 28. 20. Who are we and what are our Churches that we should presume above this Commission And we hope it will not be offensively taken by any godly Brethren That we stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free in this as well as in all other things Secondly because the lawfulnesse of set forms and stinted Liturgies is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of God whereas for Church-officers to edifie the Churches by their own gifts as well in praying as in preaching all sorts without controversie grant it to be lawfull Now spirituall prudence guideth believers when two ways are set before them one doubtfull though ventured on by some the other certainly safe and good though neglected by many to choose that which is safe declining the other Thirdly Because Primitive paterns of all the Churches of God in their best times when as touching this point they kept the rule in their eye whether Jewish before Christ or Christian above a 100 yeers after Christ yield not the least footstep to shew us another safe way to walk in then this which we have chosen As for after times towards the end of the second and beginning of the third Century we know how far the Churches were then degenerated and declined from the first purity neither do we marvell at it seeing in the Apostles time the mystery of iniquity began to work and it was then foretold that the power of godlinesse would be in aftertimes exchanged for empty formes In which respect we look not at them as our guides neither in this nor other particulars not warranted by the Rule herein following the advise of Cyprian who himself saw the corruption of those times Non est attendendum quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putaverit sed quid qui ante omnes est Christus fecerit faciendum praeceperit To conclude seeing our Christian liberty freeth us from binding our selves to any religious observances whereunto the written word doth not bind us And seeing spirituall prudence directs us to choose those ways which on all hands are confessed to be sâ—fe avoiding those that be doubtfull and hazardous And seeing it will not be safe for us needlesly to swerve from the constant practice of all Churches that are recorded in Scripture and there held forth as a cloud of Witnesses for us to follow in matters of this nature wee therefore may not doe not dare not use set forms of Prayers and stinted Liturgies in these Churches More particularly in that we doe not use that forme of Prayer and stinted Liturgy which is in use among your selves these and such other like Reasons have induced us thereunto 1 The many and just exceptions whereunto that Liturgy is lyable both for matter and manner for the proofe whereof wee referre you to those faithfull servants of God who have gone before us in witnessing against the same Amongst others to Master Cartwright and the Abridgment 2 In as much as that Liturgy was never commanded of God and hath been greatly abused to Idolatry and Superstition and is not of any necessary use and therefore we are affraid to bring it into the Worship of God as knowing the jealousie of the Lord in matters of this nature Exod. 20. and how strictly hee commandeth his people that all monuments and remnants of Idolatry and Superstition should be abolished from among them Deut. 5. 25 26. Exod. 23. 13. Esay 30. 2â— 2 Cor. 6. 17. In which respect the holy Ghost hath greatly commended Iacob David Iehu Hezechia and Iosiah for taking away the remembrance of such things Gen. 35. 2 4. Psal 16. 4. 2 King 10. 26 27. 18. 4. 23. all the Chapter And where other Kings of Iudah came short of the like zeale the Scripture notes it as a blemish in them that the high places were not taken away albeit the people did not sacrifice in them to false gods but onely to the Lord 2 Chron. 15. 17. 20. 33. 33. 17. Yea moreover it appeareth by the Scripture that somethings that had a good Originall and use if they be not still necessary and commanded of God are unlawfull when once they are knowne to be defiled by Idolatry and abused to it 2 King 18. 4. Hos 2. 16 17. As the brazen Serpent was at the first an Institution though but temporary but when the children of Israel burned Incense to it Hezechiah is commended for breaking it in pieces and the Lord witnesseth of him that he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord and according to his Commandement which he commanded Moses 2 King 18. 3 6. how much more in the like case ought other things to be removed which never were commanded of God but onely were devised by men And that that Liturgy hath been supertitiously
formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of God such also as come over occasionally who withdraw themselvs from the Sacraments in the congregation doe it on this pretence that a stinted Liturgie is a humane invention And if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and Liturgies we shall finde them to strike at all formes and Liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation and to be used but now and then or but once on set purpose and that either in publike or in private as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew You say it is evident many Preachers constantly use a set forme of Prayer of their own making before their Sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne And you know we doubt not that such set formes are disliked also And if the grounds be examined in our understanding they make as much against the one as the other View but the reasons why you admit not a stinted Liturgie and forme of prayer and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both But what ever is to be thought herein or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not This is plaine and manifest that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons not by their practises The Brownists as they are commonly called can separate from no stinted Liturgie amongst us but that which is in use and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne Pastors though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part in thanksgiving before meat or in prayer before Sermon or the like And yet their opinion is that all stinted Liturgies and set Formes of prayer be unlawfull humane inventions forbidden by the second Commandement But if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the Letter that it might be strained to another sence either because we were short in expression or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction And we doubt not but many brethren among you might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out That which followeth in your answer to the position as you interpret it wee passe over because it is not to the matter intended And wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other Churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions as you are unwilling to be interrupted Onely in regard of promise and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love we thinke good to advertise you these few things 1 That your reasons why you accept not of a stinted Lyturgie be ambiguously propounded for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein and that a stinted forme is not necessary and sometime you speake so as they that looke at Stinted Lyturgies as Images forbidden in the second Commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning 2 The reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or Liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of Catechisme confession and profession of faith blessing baptizing and singing of Psalmes 3 Wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for or against the corruptions in the Communion-Booke This you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof The reasons which you bring against it we cannot approve them all The exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know But to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein a monument of Idolatry that we have not learned The Argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the Ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the Booke hold against the Lyturgie of which opinion we are also 4 If these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration it is that which we are perswaded you know we never required of you If to disallow the use of the Booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull good and pertinent they will not hold weight 5 You are generally as you say loath to meddle with the affaires of other Churches unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto But when some upon the request as we suppose of private friends and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the Sacrament because ministred in a stinted Lyturgie wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie The Rent is wide and some brethren had their hands deepe therein which made us at this present to crave your judgements and the reasons thereof to make up the breach 6 I. D. objecteth to Master P. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter he speakes of to the Classes before he had declared to the Church the equity of his refusing the Ministers desired by the Scriptures And may not we with like reason object that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to Separation because of stinted Liturgie before you had shewed to us or other brethren whom it may concerne by Scripture or reasons drawne from thence that a stinted Liturgie was unlawfull but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere II. POSITION That it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer or receive the Sacraments where a stinted Liturgie is used or as we conceive your meaning to be in this as in the former question viz. where and when that stinted Liturgie is used Answer IT seemeth by this your letter the ground of this Position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies because of a stinted Liturgie and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry as no ministry of Christ and from their godly congregations as no Churches of Christ because of some corruptions from which through want of light not love of the truth they are not throughly cleansed Against which practise we have ever witnessed As for our Judgement concerning the Position it selfe we would promise two things First concerning the persons reading this Liturgie which may be either an ungodly or unable Minister or an able and a godly Secondly concerning the Liturgie it selfe which may be either of the whole or some select prayers which may be conceived to be the least offensive Now if the question be of joyning in prayer with and when that whole Liturgie is used or where that which is used is read by an unable and ungodly Minister we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases For 1 The prayers of the Minister are not his private prayers but the publike prayers of the whole assembly whose mouth he is to God And when the prayers offered up by the Minister as a living holy and acceptable
whereof we stand not guilty whether the corruption be through humane frailty or not it is not in us to enquire but rather whether we be called to come and the faults such as one Christian cannot or must not tolerate in another without breach of charity For if the errour be such as may be tolerated and I am called to be present by such fault I am not defiled though knowne before If the error be such as in conscience may not be tolerated though not knowne before hand I am bound if present some way to professe against it This distinction of personall and ministeriall faults in this case untill it be cleared by some Text of Scripture or sound reason from the word must goe for the divise of man A Church a Minister or a Christian may be stiffe in an error being misperswaded it is a truth after many meanes long used to convince them with whom yet we must hold communion in the ordinances of Religion and the error may be such as we cannot without hypocrisy or denyall of the truth hold communion though such meanes of conviction have not gone before But the corruptions alleadged against our forme of prayer for matter or manner are such as one Christian may and must tolerate in another where he hath no power to redresse them Hath not Christian wisdome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you deere brethren to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence then any have or can be objected truly against the form of prayer in use among us And why such corruptions should not be ascribed to humane frailty we see not For if a godly Minister make use of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for matter and manner the corruption in him that useth it according to his judgement from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailty We rest assured you question not the integrity of many who make much more use of the booke then onely in a few select prayers From the bottome of our hearts we desire and pray that God would remove out of his Church and worship whatsoever offendeth for matter or manner and that all things may be so done not onely that they may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the conscience of all men But we are perswaded that not onely some few select prayers but many prayers other exhortations may lawfully be used with fruit and edification to Gods people To aggravate faults especially when it tends to draw away people from the Ordinances of God is no lesse fault then to excuse them it may be greater and therefore we dare not esteeme the prayers read by a godly and faithfull Minister according to the booke in use among us a corrupt sacrifice whether in such as read them or them that be present In them that join according to Christs command and liberty of absence from Christ hath not beene shewed notwithstanding the corruptions we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable sacrifice to God and pleasing to Jesus Christ The corrupt sacrifice is that which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily and out of neglect having a male in his flock but the faithfull bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of God and as for corruptions whether respecting matter or forme they are none of his they cleave not to his Sacrifice to staine or pollute it As for the Text of the Prophet Mal. 1. 13 14. it is cited by many in this businesse and to many purposes applyed but we cannot finde that in the Prophet for which it is here brought The deceiver is accursed that offereth a corrupt thing to the Lord. This we reade and beleeve but that a godly man being present at this forme of prayer among us read by a godly and faithfull Minister is the deceiver who offereth a corrupt thing unto the Lord that is not proved No argument can be brought from this place to the purpose but by analogy which is a kinde of arguing of all other most ready at hand but lyable to most exceptions and apt to draw aside if great care be not had which in this place we finde not to take the proportion in every materiall point just and right And we desire such as alleadge this passage of Scripture against simple presence at the prayers of our Liturgy advisedly to consider whether God allow them to make such application of his truth which wee much doubt of to say no more Your third proposition That as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly Minister so on the other side you are not without feare least such joyning may be found unlawfull unlesse it may appeare that the Ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those Prayers neither give any scandall by reading them nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to Idolatry and Superstition nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them 1 We cannot conceive how you should imagine the practice of a godly Minister in reading some few select prayers to be scandalous or offensive in their congregations when the people generally not in their assemblies onely but throughout the whole land were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course till now of late some have beene drawne away to separate who yet by warrant of Scripture produce nothing of weight to countenance that practice 2 If the booke should be as you take it an idolathite latent offence doth not oblige If any man say unto thee this is sacrificed to Idols eat it not so that if it doe not manifestly appeare that this practice is scandalous it is not lawfull for the people to withdraw themselves 3 The book we speake of the Liturgie so far as it is sound and good by your confession is no Idolathite neither was it taken out of the Masse-book in such sense as you object but rather the masse other Idolatrous prayers were added to it for popery is as a scab or leprosie cleaving to the Church and many truths belonging to the Church as her proper legacie were stolen and heaped together in that denne And why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds thē or the thiefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription we know not It is no hard taske to shew that our Service-booke was reformed in most things according to the purest Liturgies which were in use in the Church long before the masse was heard of in the world And if that could not be shewed yet formes of speech generally taken we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase is no more defiled by Idolatry then the light aire or place where Idolatry is committed It is not unlawfull to pray Lord helpe or Lord have mercy or to give thankes praised bee God because the Papists say Lady helpe or praised be God and
unjustly deposed as formerly in the execution of his office he was a Minister to them onely and to none other societie whatsoever or in what respect soever your opinion is contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall Church and tendeth to destroy the unitie of the Church and that communion which the Churches of God may and ought to have one with another for if he be not a Minister in other Churches then are not the Churches of God one nor the Ministers one nor the flocke which they feed one nor the Communion one which they have each with other And if the Pastor derive all his authoritie to feede from the Church when the Church hath set him aside what right hath he to administer among that people If they erre in their deposition it is true they sinne against Christ But as they give right to an unworthy man to administer among them if they call him unjustly so they take right from the worthy if wrongfully they depose him The Minister is for his Ministery the office for the execution and so the Pastor and the flocke are relatives And therefore if their Election gave him authoritie among them to feed their casting him off hath stripped him of the same power which formerly they gave him And his ministery ceasing he should cease to be their Minister if he stood as Minister onely to that Congregation in every respect Whit. de pont q. 4. Sec. 10. pa. 559. Certe lex naturae ratio clamitat cujus est instituere ejus est destruere sive destituere ad quem institutio pertinet ad eundem destitutionem seu destructionem pertinere Rob. aga B. P. 214. If the Congregation may chuse and elect their Governours then they may refuse and reprobate them VIII POSITION That one Minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another Congregation Answer IF you take ministeriall act improperly as sometimes it is taken by some onely when the Minister of one Church doth exercise his gifts of praying and preaching in another Church being by themselves so desired Then we answer in this sense a Minister of one Church may do a ministeriall act in another which he doth not perform by vertue of any calling but onely by his gifts and thus upon any occasion we mutually perform those acts one in anothers Churches But if you meane by ministeriall act such an act of authoritie and power in dispensing of Gods ordinance as a Minister doth perform to the Church whereunto he is called to be a Minister then we deny that he can so perform any ministeriall act to any other Church but his own because his office extends no further then his call For that solemne charge Act. 20. 28. is not to feed all flocks but that one flock onely over which the holy Ghost hath made them over-seers If the question were propounded to any Minister so exercising in an others Church which was once to our Saviour by the chief Priests and Elders By what power doest thou these things and who gave thee this authoritie let that Minister whosoever he be study how to make an answer Reply THe preaching of the Word publick prayer in the congregation met together solemnly to worship God and the administration of the Sacraments are acts properly ministeriall if any other to be performed by power and authoritie from Christ as you acknowledge for the preaching of the Word and dispensation of the Seales in your second Consideration But these acts one Minister may performe in another Congregation or towards the members of another Church You know by whom your question hath been propounded touching one Ministers exercising in another Ministers Church and how it hath been answered and if you see more light and truth then formerly we would desire you substantially to confute what answers some of you have returned to that demand To admit saith Mr. J. D. those that are known members of another Church to Communion in the Sacraments upon fitting occasions I hold lawfull and do professe my readinesse to practise accordingly Again I conceive that besides my membership else where and the right which those Churches give to known passants of being admitted to the Communion for a short time both himself and the whole Church acknowledge me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that service which they testified by desiring the help of my publick labours and their cheerfull admittance of me to that ordinance during that time without the least scruple And if a Minister may pray preach blesse the congregation in the name of the Lord and receive the Sacrament with them being thereunto requested we doubt not but by consent of the Pastor and the Congregation he may lawfully dispense the Seals amongst them also as need and occasion requires That distinction of preaching by office and exercising his gifts onely when it is done by a Minister and desired of none but Ministers and that in solemne set constant Church-assemblies we cannot find warranted in the Word of truth and therefore we dare not receive it It is truly observed by Master Davenport out of An. bros Offic. l 1. c. 1 Et quantum libet quisque profecerit 〈◊〉 est qui doceri non indigeâ—â— dâ—m vivit Appoll Preface to the Reader Were not these men saith Cann against Robin superstitiously addicted to their new devise that beware how to reject the unanimous judgment and practice of all learned men and true Churches Stay against straying pag. 47. I am and shall be always ready to give all due respect to those good customes of Churches which are taken upon good warrant and ground and long continued among Gods people I. D. Apol p. 31. Good customes taken up by the Churches upon good grounds should not lightly be broken or laid downe wherein I doe fully agree with the Authour of that elaborate Commentary upon the fourth Chapter of Iohn I. D. Apol. Sect. 12. Examina p. 151. This Argument is used by the Abridgment against conformity to the Ceremonies and we do not see but it is as strong against this Liturgy Whereas the publisher of this answer to the six Positions refers the reader to Mr. Cottons answer unto Mr. Ball for satisfaction in this point concerning set formes of prayer The reader is earnestly intreated to compare Master Balls Treatise and Mr. Cottons answer with seriousnesse and indifferencie because Mr Ball having received that answer before the publishing of his Treatise being much enlarged whereof Mr Cotton was ignorant was confident that with addition of some marginall notes which in reference thereto he added his Treatise would sufficiently defend it selfe against all the assaults which that answer made against it We may not Communicate at all in that ministery which is exercised by an unlawfull person or in an unlawful place Robinson against Bern. Counsell debated p 17 Ibid pag 79. Esa 56. 10. Ezech 41. 7 8. Mic. 3. 11 12. Ier. 5. 31. Esa