all Churches And then he concludes with a perswasion to all good Christians to lay aside contention and endless and many of them also needless Questions about this matter And seeing it must of all who are well advised be granted that the publique prayers are helps to stir up Gods graces in us and to convey to us the many good blessings of God which we want to look therefore to themselves every way so carefully that they may be fit to be helped and benefitted by them and with the same well ordered hearts and minds to attend unto and apply to themselves the prayers which either before and after Sermon are uttered or the other which through the whole action of Gods worship are read in their hearing and not to be led by opinion that they can take no profit by them N. C. I see very well what kind of writer he is C. And you see he is not for the â—â—oth of the men of these days in which Philag confesses your Ministers dare not perswade the people in this manner much less tell them that all who are well advised are sensible of the benefit that is to be received by the publike prayers read out of a Book This one passage is enough I doubt not to make such Books as these to be rejected as well as their Admonitions N. C. I believe these very good men and meant exceeding well C. But were weak and in a lower dispensation N.C. I dare not say so but I think they would not please now C. No I warrant you especially when they met with a form of prayer which this Author himself hath drawn up at the end of the fourth Treatise y Chap. 20. p. 537. c. Edit 5. 1630. In which among other things he teaches the people to acknowledge the great goodness of God in giving them to live under a most Christian and Religious Prince and King defending and maintaining the Gospel against all Antichristian Malice and tyranny and other adversary powers and the same truly and sincerely preached c. These are words which do not sound well in many of your ears they would be loath to joyn in this acknowledgment For we are told by one that God hath ecclipsed the light of the Sanctuary z T. W. Godlymans picture p. 114 By another that our Aarons too often make golden Calves a Rebuild of London p. 359. And by Philagathus that the Gospel is gone from many congregations in England and else where b Sober Answ p. 284. And that the Goshens that were when the N. C. were in them are grown as dark as the land of Egypt c pag. 285. and were it not for some reasons he tells you he would not have spoken of it but let it alone till the cry thereof so came up to Heaven as to cause the God of Heaven to say as in Gen. 18.11 concerning Sodom I will go down and see if they have done altogether according to the cry of it which is come up unto me c. d p. 286. By which it should seem N. C. No glosses good Sir nor Inferences C. There needs none We may plainly observe what judgments they expect to come upon us because of their removeal We are in Egypt already though the word of God be read every where and must be made like Sodom and Gomorrah I wish heartily that in stead of such acknowledgments as good M. Rogers taught the people to make though many in those times were suspended and deprived they do not now clap petards on heavens gates that they may fly open and send down Fire and brimstone upon us N. C. Are you mad what wild fire hath got into your head Phil. called you a Crack now he will call you a Cracker C. You are not well read I perceive T. W. tells you that Prayer hath a power to destroy the Insolent Enemies of the Church For the two VVitnesses have a flame at their lips Fire proceeds out of their mouth which devours their Enemies Rev. 11.5 and this Fire is certainly to be interpreted of their Prayers c Godly mans picture by Mr. Tho. Watson p. 129. Now that you may better understand their power he tells you that Prayer is a petard which will make Heavens Gate to flye open f Ib. p. 130. N. C. I cry you mercy I did not expect to have found such expressions any where C. Not in Mr. Rogers I warrant you nor any of the Seminaries before named who will never trouble you with such conceited language as this nor tell you that Prayer is a seed sown in Gods ears g Ib. p. 128. N. C. Good now dismiss both him and Mr. Rogers I have had enough of them C. Let me tell you first that this book of his was abridged by Mr. Egorton * Anno. 1618. and put in Quest and Answ who commended it in his Preface to Mr. Hen. Scudders daily Walk and called the practice of Christianity A Book well know and much read when I was a Child and hath an Epistle of Dr. Gouge before it and at the conclusion certain Advertisements concerning Prayer * At the end of the seventh Book chap. 11. pag. 691. Edit 5. 1635. In which he declares that it is lawful and in some Cases expedient to use a set Form of Prayer And there being in respect of place and company three sorts of Prayer Publique in the Church private in the Family and secret by a mans self he concludes that the greatest liberty may be taken in solitary Prayer by a mans self because we are sure provided we be humble and upright that God will not upbraid any man for his Method Order Words or utterance In private Prayer he thinks we may not take so great a Liberty as when alone and justly fears that some well affected people have been somewhat faulty and offensive in this the weaker sort being not so capable of that kind of Prayer which is called conceived or extemporall varying every time in words phrase manner and order though the matter and substance be the same But as for the publique Congregation special care he tells you must be had that nothing be done in praying preaching or administring the Sacraments but what is decent and orderly because there many eyes do see us and many ears hear us and upon this account it is expedient for the most part to keep a constant Form both of matter and words c. This was the Doctrine of the Divines of those dayes though it be not relished now by those who reverence their Name more than their Books Dr. Preston himself another Name which this man vapours withal declared his opinion about the lawfulness of set forms in the first Sermon h Preached before he was Chaplain as Mr. Ball tells us in his Life published by Mr. Clark p. 112. he preached before King James at Royston upon 1 John 16. where he hath these remarkable
words which will be thought too scornful by many of you now That a set Form of prayer is lawful much need not be said the very newness of the contrary opinion is enough to show the Vanity and falshood of it The truth of it is it was so new that there were few of those old Divines but they opposed it in their constant practice This Dr. now named Dr. Sibbs Mr. Hildersham Mr. Dod Mr. Bradshaw c. alway using one Set Form of Prayer before their Sermons and some of them in their Families For which the last mentioned gave this reason as Mr. Gataker tels us in his Life i Life of Mr. Wil. Bradshaw published by Mr. Clark p. 67. in Fol because he sitation in prayer is more offensive than in other discourse unto profane ones especially whereof in mixed multitudes and meetings some lightly too many usually are And he affirmed this also to have been Mr. Th. Cartwrights practice with whom he sometimes conversed And Mr. Clark I remember confesses that Mr. Sam. Crook who dyed no longer ago than 1649. was the first man who brought conceived prayer into use in those parts where he lived in Somerset-shire k Collect of 〈◊〉 o◠〈◊〉 Diviâ—â—â— p. 38 〈…〉 If you would see more of this you may read Dr. Prestons Book called the Saints daily Exercise l 〈◊〉 6. 1 31. p. â—â— set forth by Dr. Sibbs and Mr. Davenport where you will find this Question largely handled whether we mâ—y â—se set Forms of Prayer and resolved assirmatively For which he gives many reasons N. C. I 'le seek them when I am at leisure C. Only remember this for the present that he saith he knows no obâ—ection of weight against it How do you like this Doctrine now N. C. Is not the Spirit straitned in stinted Prayer And doth not a man find his Spirit bounded and limited when he is tyed to a Form C. That 's the main objection he tells you to which he gives three substantial Answers The first is that those very men who are against this and use this reason do the same thing daily in the Congregation for when another prays that is a Set Form to him that hears it who hath no liberty to run out though his Spirit should be more large but is bound to keep his mind upon it And therefore if that were a sufficient reason that a man might not use a set Form because the Spirit is straitned it would not be lawfull to hear another pray though it were a conceived Prayer because in that case his Spirit is limited Secondly he tells you though the Spirit be limited at that time yet he hath a liberty at other times to pray as freely as he will It is no general ty though he be then bound up And Thirdly he adds that there is no ty and restraint upon the Spirit because there is a ty to words For the largness of the heart stands not so much in the multitude and variety of Expressions as in the extent of the affections which have no ty upon them when we are tyed in words N. C. Too many words will not do well in any other thing Let us therefore make an end of this C. I shall only tell you that if you turn a leaf or two further m Saints daily Exercise p. 84. you will find another case resolved about the gesture of Prayer which he would have to be very reverend especially in publique And that Mr. Hildersham exhorts to kneeling as the fittest gesture And complains of those that neglected it as also of such as would not sit bare at the reading of the holy Scriptures wishing withall that when we come in and go out of the Church we would give some signification of such reverence as now is rather derided than approved By all which you may see without travelling through the rest of the Authors which he mentions that they will not down with your squeamish stomacks and have been thrust out of doors by a number of frivolous writers among you who can better humour the childish fancies and the corrupt appetites of the professors of this Age. This very man is one of them who jeers those old Puritans as they were called as well as us when he compares a man that uses a Form of Prayer to an Horse in a Mill * Page 97. of his Book which goes round and round and cannot easily go out of his way if he do but jog on though he be hood-winkt and blindfolded N. C. But Religion as he sayes is like to suffer greatly by the not reading of those good writers C. That 's spoken only upon supposition that our Ministers have made them to be rejected but if they have been the cause of it themselves he can tell you another story Doubt not of it he can find you Authors enough as good as they if not better and as many as you please twenty or forty or more Say how many you would have for it 's all one to him whether it be twenty or forty n Pag. 55 56 57. one is as soon said as the other and they shall be such Treatises that there are not better extant in the World of those Subjects N. C. Do you think he will write against himself C. That 's a very small matter with one that minds not what he writes In a twelve moneths time you may think it is easie for a man to forget what he hath writ and so no wonder that he who told us in 1668. that some good Scholars were put to such hard shifts as to beg their bread the Laws at that time being too hard for them and too strictly observed to let them get any sufficient employment for a livelihood o Rebuilding of London p. 331. c. should tell us now 1669. that the severe Ordinances signified next to nothing where he was conversant and should ask to what purpose it is to mention them as long as I tell of no Execution done by them p Sober Answ p. 254 255. But he can do a great deal more than this comes to in an hours time or so he can forget what he hath said and say the contrary In the 31. page of his Preface he tells you that he hath endeavoured to restore me with a Spirit of meekness notwithstanding that but two leaves before p. 26. he had excused himself for not making a milder answer flesh and blood being not able to bear some of my expressions In his Book also if you mark it he desires you to believe he is far from being one of those who say as if we were the Jews or Gentils he speaks of in another place For what acquaintance should we perswade our people to joyn with you Or how came we to ow you so much Service q Page 221. And yet he hath not writ many leaves before he tells us in plain termes without excepting himself that the N.
Mount Sion in themselves This was one of those things which turned their eyes from Authors now named to look for some greater thing which these new Teachers had to reveal to them N. C. I must confess I have heard some of our own Divines complain of this But I doubt you have helpt to make the people reject those Authors as weak and frivolous and to listen to what new Rational Doctrine your selves are about to bring as he tells you p. 13. C. He talks idly and spitefully opposes his own imaginations to the plain and manifest truth They were laid aside and other Books come in their stead before those whom he strikes at begun either to preach or write And some of those very Ministers of yours who complained of the New lights and Discoveries have contributed to it not a little by affecting of new words and fine phrases and devising Sauces for that food which those old Divines delivered in a plainet and more simple manner These many people began even then to long for when Mr. Rogers his Book was writ as we may learn from one that prefaces to it Mr. Fr. Merbury there tells us that some professors in those dayes liked none but such conceited Cooks as this Philagdthus who commends so heartily T. VV. Sances and tells us an Anchove or two gives the gravy a fine relish and rather then fail can be content with Carriers Sance an Onion to get a man a better stomack to his meat r All these are his words p. 50. But he himself did not like them as he tells us in these words the rest of the professors which â—e like wanton children and begin to play with their meat and brook nothing but conceited writing and speaking are to be bewailed And therefore he desires the good Readers in the conclusion of that Epistle to receive Mr. Roger's provision made for them of wholesome meat not caring for conceited Cookery but rememtring that hunger is the best sauce for beavenly food This is a plain demonstration to me that this buisy Informer and Reproover hath not been conversant himself in those Writers which he so much commends but is one of those who hath laid them aside though he be no Rational Divine I dare say for him At least he is never the better for them being one of those that writes not elegantly but conceitedly if ever any man did and that labours hard in this phantastick trade of Cookery which those grave Writers did so solemnly condemn Witness the bread and butter I told you of before the hot broth of reproof which he talks of p. 123. The Beef and Bacon the Rabbets and Chickens which he fetches in to make a savory Mess of W. Bs. bowl of Pottage f pag. 264. and 265. and the conceited jest which he makes a shift to strain at last out of a Galimaufry of Latine and English compounded together for which he would be soundly firkt if he were I know where and at every lash be told in his own language that he had both jus in re and jus ad rem too far more then any boy in the School N. C. Did not you bring in your Cheese too in the Epistle to your Reader C. And I take it neither for an out-stretched Allegory u Like his discourse of this matter which takes up 3. pages l. p. 264. c. as he would have it nor an unhandsome resemblance Others I am sure who are no bad judges think it as far from conceited as they think him from being witty N. C. You must consider the matters about which he write are not very grave and so it may be pardonable if he be a little phantastical C. No I thought all this while he had been defending the use of these Sauces in T. W's Book of Repentance and such like that have taken the place of those better writers Which are the less acceptable to many of you for another reason that he thinks not of being I have cause to think but little acquainted with them N. C. What should that be C. They resolutely maintain the lawfulness and usefulness of a Form of prayer which now is so much despised if not abhorred and withal approve of the publique service of our Church and commend some other things which are now neglected N. C. Can you prove what you say C. I tell you nothing but what my eyes have read Mr. Rich. Rogers for instance whom p. 13. he sets in the first place in his seven Treatises x Commended by Mr. Culverwel one of the Authors Philag praises dedicated to King James in the beginning of his raign tells you * Treat 3. chap. 4. that the Publique Prayers solemnly offered to God in the congregation and praysing God with Psalmes is one of the publique helps to Godliness to be used by every Christian In the which saith he if that mind be in us with the which we have been taught to come to all holy exercises and so be prepared for them who doubts but that we may receive much help by them Yea ☜ and the better a man is the more he shall profit by them And when a man doth not profit it is partly of Ignorance partly from a prejudicate opinion and rash zeal which makes men give themselves to slight and negligent hearing of and attending to them And then having answered the objection of those who said the Ministers in some places were ignorant and unreformed Sots and idle drones in philag language p. 284. and resolved that notwithstanding we ought to joyn with them in prayers He proceeds to satisfy those that said a Minister should use no set form of Prayer but as he is moved by Gods spirit To such he saith It is a fond error so to think N. C. I know many would not like those words C. I told you so but hear his reason For as there be necessary things to be prayed for of all men and alway and those are the most things which we are to pray for So there may be prescript forms of prayer made conceming all such things Which being so what letteth that in the Reading of such prayers either of confession of sin request or thanksgiving what letteth I say that the hearers heart may not profitably go with the same both to humble to quicken and to comfort For is the reading it self unpure when the Minister in his own behalf and the peoples uttereth them to God I speak not you see of the matter of prayer but of reading it for if the matter be naught the pronouncing of it makes it not good any more then reading doth if it be good and pure being uttered and pronounced the reading cannot hurt it or make it evil And further to satisfy them they may know that in all Churches and the best Reformed there is a prescript form of prayer used and therefore they who are of a mind that it ought not to be must separate themselves from
page 154 155 Their great presumption page 157 The Power of Boldness page 159 Some instances of the great Impudence of this man page 160 161 c. Of their smuity Discourse page 163 A wicked Suggestion page 166 Two of their Popular Arts page 168 169 How Smect dealt with Bishop Hall page 170 They abuse the Scripture as the ancient Hereticks did page 171 172 c. A Discourse of Dr. Jackson's on this subject page 174 c. W. B. misapplication of Scripture page 176 And others page 177 Their conceit of themselves page 179 198 And sottish abuse of holy words page 180 181 Impudent excuses they make rather than confess Errors page 181 182 186 Of pretences to Visions page 183 Another dangerous notion of W. B. page 185 Of Pretences to Revelations page 187 c. New Lights page 18â— How mild they are toward high offenders among themselves page 192 c The reason men so easily believe lies and asperse others page 195 And rake Libels for them page 19â— His wicked suggestions about Sacriledge page 201 20â— c His pitiful Apology for them page 20â— Mr. Udal's Book about Sacriledg page 20â— How they misimploy their thoughts page 2â—â— A wretched reasoning page 212 21â— How little they value the Peace of the Church page 21â— How much the Ancients valued it page 21â— The hard haerteduess of the N. C. page 216 21â— The lying and jugling of this Writer page 219 c Their aptness to complain page 2â—â— And self-love page 224 Another old trick of the disaffected page 225 c. Their undutiful and causeless clamours c. page 227 228 c. Deprivation for not Conforming to Publike Order is not Persecution page 234 235 c. Magistrates Power to appoint fit Instructers of his people page 237 238 Necessity of punishing those that do not conform page 240 c. The N. C. against so much as a connivance heretofore page 244 The peaceableness of the old N. C. when deprived page 247 Now they are like the Donatists page 250 Men murmur least when Laws are strictly executed page 251 The witlessness of Malice page 255 It is not Godliness but themselves which they contend for page 256 N.C. have acknowledged the Canting of some of their own party page 257 c. How Mr. Calvin and others have been belyed by furious zealots page 260 c. The wild Logick of Philag page 264 c. The Assembly slighted by themselves page 269 c. They love to abuse us in holy Language page 272 The wicked spirit among N. C. page 273 Several sorts of them page 275 Their proud conceit of the power of their Ministry page 278 c. Men grow worse when they become Separatists page 282 Their own Books inform us of a wicked generation among them page 286 c. Advantage the Papists make of their Schism page 289 c. Why called Precisians page 290 Philag his Character of the N. C. page 295 c. Lies and falshoods in his Preface page 298 c. Anotable instance page 302 303 c. Lawfulness and usefulness of Forms of Prayer maintained by Mr. Roger's page 307 308 c. A Form of his which they will not imitate now page 311 Their Prayers more dangerous page 312 Mr. Egerton's Advertisement about Prayer page 313 Dr. Preston's page 315 The newness of the contrary opinion and practice page 315 316 The spirit not straitned by a form of words page 317 Philag against himself page 319 Of the Lyes which are in his Book page 323. to 330 Particularly about Excommunication page 330 331 c. Of going to Plays page 334 to 339 The Ordinances of Parliament about them page 340 How he abuses good sense page 342 c. The N.C. could see and Act worse Plays than any are now page 346 c. Of Trading in Promises page 354 And absolute Promises page 355 c. Their Faith acknowledged sometime to have no ground page 357 c. Of eying the Glory of God page 359 c. Wretched Interpreters of Holy Scripture page 361 c. Of Desertions c. page 364 c. How they have debauched Religion page 367 368 Justifie abuse of Scripture page 369 c. Pretend to mysteries when they are none page 374 c. His vain babble about Experiences and other things page 376 c. Of Perverters of the Sense of Books page 378 c. Punishments contrived for me page 380 c. W. B. lowsie similitude page 382 Wit not to be sought page 384 c. Wrangling without cause page 388 Considerations about the making up our breaches page 391 c. Of Schism page 394 Scandal page 395 Presumption of this Writâ—â— page 396 c. And of his fellows page 398 399 What Praving by the Spirit page 403. ERRATA Page 25. line 2. read Caraculiambre p. 26 l. 16. for Landaf r. Caerleon p. 26. l. 1. add in the marg p 151. of Sober Answer p 60 l. 26. r. manner p. 75 l. 24. r. Sophisters is in him p. 142. marg r. Duplies p. 143. l. 13. d. and before nice p. 153. l. 1. r. and will l. 20. O ye p. 184. l. 19. r. wherewith p. 225 l 27. that they might p. 230. l. 4. r cravings p. 234 l. ult r. their Discipline p. 278. penult flatly deâ— p. 282. l. 20. r. pertly champer p. 285. l. 6. r. to sins p. 288. l. 25. r. Martin Mar Priest p. 31. l. 12. r. for the tooth p. 323. l. 2. d. as p. 325. 2. for from r. form p. 333. l. 14. r. Caracalla p. 34â— l. 22. r. the point p. 354. l. 19. r. Traders p. 355 l. 25. r. of it p. 356. l. 1. r. requires p. 361. l. 1. Dav. Kimchi p. 364. l. 5. r. desertions p. 367. l. â— r. melancholy patient p. 377. l. 8. r. so much p. 37â— marg r. Lord Seguier Chancellor c. p. 380. l. 11 d. I may be able A FURTHER CONTINUATION AND DEFENCE OF THE Friendly Debate N. C. NOw for an Ishmael C. Are you the Isaac's then against whom to speak a word is to scoffe at the Children of God And must we be all cast out like the bondwoman and her son to make room for you the Holy Seed N. C. I did but use the words of a late Writer who hath answered your two Debates p. 19. C. That hath snarl'd and carpt you should have said at some things in them which he did not understand and N. C. This is your old Pride C. It is one of your old Arts rather and wretched shifts to call men proud when you cannot confute them and when you have blotted a great deal of Paper with senseless or impertinent stuff boldly to cry it up for an unanswerable piece N. C. What Arts do you tell me of I know none we use but honesty and plain dealing C. We know a great many other which have alway stood you in mighty stead One is to extoll the men
more necessary than now when those undertake to inform and teach the Nation who have not so much knowledg as the Prophesying Ape with which Giles of Passamonte went about to cosen the Country N. C. What was that C. It had this notable faculty that it could tell nothing at all of what was to come but knew something of what was past and a little of things present otherwise it would never mount up to Giles his shoulder and chatterin his ear But this Phil. of yours frisks and grins in my face and grates his teeth apace and looks upon me as a scurvy lyar and yet confesses himself Ignorant of what is past and that when he mounts up himself without any bidding to talk of it Thus the poor people are cosened and this man cosens their Conscience while such as the other only pick their pockets of twelve pence a piece N. C. Why What Liturgy were they wont to use in Scotland or when was the Church of Scotland for the use of a Liturgy Were they not alway without and against a Form of Divine Service C. You need not repeat his words I was going to tell you that it is endless to write to such a Scribler who will ask that Question again which hath been already Answered Did I not tell you in our last Dehate r Continuation of the Friendly Debate p. 409. that the Scottish Form of Prayer was printed here in England in the beginning of the late Wars But he is not at leisure to read Books He is a writer forsooth and cannot spare so much time from this great imployment as to read the Book he writes against For had it pleased him to be at this pains there he might have heard of the strange thing which he imagines no body ever saw the Scots Form of Divine Service But he will think perhaps that I wrote like himself without any care at all and transcribed that passage out of my own imagination and not from the sight of my eyes For your better information therefore you may know that there being some persons at Frankfort in Queen Maries time who would admit no other Form of Prayers but that in the English Book Mr. John Knox a principal Reformer in Scotland afterward joyned with those who quarrell'd at it But it appears by the story that he was not against a Form of Divine Service no nor against all things in the English Book But as he had an high esteem of the Composers of it s Witness the Commendation he gives Cranmer whom he called that Reverend Father in God Admonition to the Professors of the Truth in England An. 1554. p. 51. so he approved in great part of the work it self A brief description indeed of it being sent by him and Whittingham to Mr. Calvin and his opinion of it return'd Jan. 22. 1555. Mr. Knox and four more were ordered to draw forth another order of Divine Service which was the very same with that of Geneva But part of the Congregation still adhering to the Book of England after some Conference they composed a new Order by the advice of Mr. Knox some of it taken out of the English Book and other things added as the State of the Church required and to this all consented as we are told in the Discourse of the Troubles of Frankfort t Repriâ—ed here 1642. P. 30 31. A little after Dr. Cox coming thither answered aloud as the manner is here which bred a new contention And to be short the English Book was again established and continued though afterward they left off the use of the Ceremonies and Mr. Knâ—â— went to Geneva There I find he was when Queen Mary dyed being one of those who subscribed the Letter to the Church at Frankfort u Decemb. 15. 1558. desiring that whatsoever offences had been given or taken might be forgotten and that all might lovingly agree when they met in England Not long after he went into Scotland where some had begun a Reformation More particularly it had been concluded by the Lords and Barons a little after their first Covenant x In which they who forsook Popery ingaged themselves to each other by a Common Bond. Decemb. 3. 1557. that it was thought expedient advised and ordained that in all Parishes of the Realm the Common Prayer should be read weekly on Sundays and other Festivals publickly in the Parish-Church with the Lessons of the Old and New Testament conforming to the ORDER OF THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER And if the Curates of the Parishes be qualified to cause them to read the same if not or they refuse that the most qualified in the Parish use and read it y History of the Church of Scotl. ascribed to Mr. Knox. Book 1. pag. 110. In this Settlement Mr. Knox found them and though the Queen discharged the Common Prayers and forbad to give any portions to such as were the principal young men who read them yet they continued to be read z Ibid. Book 2. pag. 170. an 1559. And what was thus began by a few persons was afterward compleated by a more Publick Decree For by a General Assembly holden in December 1562. it was ordained that one Vniform Order should be observed in the Administration of the Sacraments according to the Order of Geneva That is as I understand it the very same which Mr. Knox and the rest had used when they were there And two year after Decemb. 1564. It was again ordained that Ministers in the Ministration of the Sâ—craments should use the Order set down in the Psalm Book a Both these I have out of the Disputation against the Assembly at Perth and they are alledged to prove there should be no kneeling at the Sacrament because their Old Order did not prescribe it to which now that Form I suppose was annexed Nor did Mr. Knox think himself above these Forms but made use of them as appears from hence That being desired before the Council to moderate himself in his Form of praying for the Queen he related to them the most vehement and most excessive manner of Prayer that he used in Publick and after he had repeated the words at length concluded thus This is the Form of Common Prayer as you your selves can witness b Ib. Book 4 p. 380. an 1564. The same History also records a Form of Publick Prayer used in the Church of St. Giles in Edenburgh upon the Peace made with France c July 8. 1560. p. 245. and aâ—â— ther Form d P. 287. at the Election of Superintendents He also that wrote the Mederate Reply e An. 1646. to the City Remonstranâ—â— against Toleration presents the Remonstrants in the last leaf of his Book with a Form of Thanksgiving used in the Church of Scotland for their deliverance from the French by the English An. 1575. Bâ—t why do I mention these particular Prayers There was Printed as I said 1641. the Service and
Discipline and form of Common Prayer and Administration of the Sacraments used in the English Church of Geneva received and approved by the Church of Scotland and presented to the High Court of Parliament that year And though in that there are now and then such passages as this the Minister shall use this Confession or the like in effect yet they are not to be found in the ancient Books I have been long Owner of a Form of their Divine Service Printed at Edinburgh Cum Privilegio Regali 1594. and bound up with the Psalm-book spoken of before and there is no such allowance given in any place of the Book The Confession is enjoyned in these words Ane Confession that sall ga befoir the reading of the Law and befoir every Exercise And if you read the first Book of Discipline presented to the Lords of the Secrct Council of Scotland 20 May. 1560. and by them confirmed f Though never coafirmed by Act of Parliament Mr. Knox complaining that some in chief Authority called the same Devout Imaginations you shall find they make some things utterly necessary and others only profitable for the keeping the Kirk in good Order Among the first sort are these that the Word be truly preached the Sacraments rightly administred Common-Prayers Publickly made These things be so necessary say they that without the same there is no Face of a visible Kirk And that they mean the Form of Prayer agreed upon appears by what follows in the end of that Chapter g All this you may fiad in the ninth head concerning the Policy of the Kirk In Private houses we think expedient that the most grave and discreet persons use the Common Prayers at morn and night for the comfort and instruction of others More particularly when they tren of Discipline h In the seventh head they advise in case any man be excommunicated his Friend should travel with him to bring him to knowledge of himself and Commandment given to all men to call to God for his Conversion And that for this purpose a solemn and special Prayer be draâ—â— for then the thing would be more graâ—â— done They are their very words By all which it is apparent what the constiâ—â—tion of their Church in the beginning was and that later times have swerved from the Decrees of their Fore-fathers So the Doctors and Professors of Aberdeâ—â— i In their Daplia's 1638. pag. 37. and they no mean men neither tel those who came to urge the Coveâ—â—â— on them They who have subscribed to it misregard the Ordinances of our Reformen praefixed to the Psalm-Book concerning the Office of Superintendents or Bishops Funeral Sermons and set Forms of Prayer which they appointed to be publickly read iâ— the Church This was a thing so well known though this Bold-face gives me the lye for supposing it that Ludoviâ— Capellus * Thes Salmur pars 3. p. 658. had reason to write these words At the Reformation the Sacred Liturgie was purged from all Superstitiâ—s and Popish Idolatry c. and so there wert several Forms of holy Liturgie pure and simple made and prescribed all about by the several Authors of the Reformation in Germany France England ☞ SCOTLAND the Netherlands c. Departing as little as possibly they could from the ancient Forms of the Primitive Church which the reformed Charches have used hitherto happily and with profit every one within the limits of their own Nation and Territories Till at last there very lately arose in England certain morose scrupulous and nice and delicate that I say not plainly superstitious persons to whom the Liturgie of their Church hitherto used seemed fit for many though most slight and frivolous causes not only to be disapproved but plainly abrogated Bishop Hall N. C. Enough enough You will be as long and tedious as the Common Prayer C. If that were shorter you would find the greater fault and if I used fewer words he would keep the greater quoile He is not one of those whom a word will suffice He will struggle and keep a stir even when he is overthrown and he must be oppressed with Proofs and Arguments or else he will not cease to quarrel and contend I shall add therefore the words of Bishop Hall k Apology against the Brownists Sect. 37. who justifying a stinted Form of Prayer against the Separatists saith Behold all Churches that were or are in the World are Partners with us in this Crime O Idolatrous Geneva and all French SCOTTISH Danish and Dutch Churches All which both have their Forms with us and approve them The same you may find in a Divine of your own l Mr. Sam. Clark collection of the lives of ten Divines p. 255. who tells us in the Life of Mr. Capel That he was clear in his opinion for the lawfulness of the use of Set Forms of Prayer according to the Tenent of all our best and most judicious Divines and according to the practice of all Churches even the best reformed saith M. Rogers now and in all former Ages So saith Mr. Hildersham Yea and Mr. Smith himself saith upon the Lord's Prayer though as then he was warping and afterwards wandred far in the waies of Separation that it was the practice of the ancient Church and of all the Reformed Churches in Christendom Of the Churches immediately after the Apostles nay saith he of the Church in the time of the Apostles as may be probably gathered out of 1 Cor. 14.26 This hath also been the practice of the best Lights that ever were set up in the Churches of Christ It is very well known that the flower of our own Divines went on in this way when they might have done otherwise if they had pleased in their Prayers before their Sermons To this Testimony which may serve also for other purposes I would cast in more but that you complain of weariness already N. C. I had rather take your word than be troubled with them C. And will you take Mr. Impudence his word against all these Author ties What say you Was there never a time when they used a Form of Prayer in the Church of Scotland Were they alway without nay against a Form when they were left to their own choice Did their Queen force them to Common Prayers when she forbad the use of them What do you think Must we believe all these strong Proofs and solid Testimonies or will he rub his forehead and say like himself believe me before them all In good time Sir Let him play never so many tricks let him frisk about and tumble up and down and endeavour to make you sport that you may forget the Question you came about You will have more wit I hope than to let him deceive you any more Remember Whise the Ape dances on the Rope that 's the time which is taken to cut the Purses of the Spectators But I think he may put all that he hath gain'd
by his chattering and skipping about in his eye and see never the worse Or rather he hath brought an old house as we say over his own and others head For by flying to this refuge which proves a refuge of lies he confesses the force of my Argument that they break their Covenant when they meet without a Form of Prayer seeing the best Reformed Churches have used a Form even that of Scotland not excepted after whose Pattern I will prove if you please more fully that they engaged to Reform N. C. We have no leisure now for such discourses C. Then I le let it alone and proceed to give you another proof of his Ignorance of things past though he have 〈◊〉 half the modesty of Giles his Ape Eâ— you look into p. 243 of his Book beâ— saith the N.C. will make bold to tell us be should have spoken only for himself who we know is bold enough that we use them more haraly than ever our selves were used For though some of you saith he were sequestred yet none of you were silenced or commanded not to preach or molested meerly for Preaching as such One would think this man should have good assurance for what he affirms thus bodly to use his own language and yet the direct contrary is upon Record and to be seen in Print For by a Declaration of 24. Nov. 1655 The late Protector required not only that no person who had been sequestred for Delinquency or been in Arms against the Parliament or adhered unto or abetted or assisted the Forces raised against them should keep in their House or Family as Chaplain or Schoolmaster any Sequestred or Ejected Minister Fellow of a Colledge or Schoolmaster nor which is more permit any of their Children to be taught by such c. But that nâ— person who for Delinquency or Scandal had been sequâ—stred or ejected should from and after the first of January next ensuing preach in any publick place or at any private meeting of any other persons than those of his own Family Nor should baptize or administer the Lord's Supper or Marry or use the Book of common-Prayer or the Forms of Prayer therein contained upon pain of being proceeded against as by his Orders was provided and directed for securing the peace of the Common-wealth This severity moved Doctor Gauden to make a pathetical address m Febr. 4. following unto him in the be half of so many undone persons which was afterward Printed And at the same time the Primate of Ireland came to Town on purpose and went in person to him to intercede for his indulgence towards them He took also the sortest opportunities of mediating for them for the space of five or six weeks together But was fain at last to retreat to his Country retirement and so to his grave with liâ—t'e success and less hope to his great grief and sorrow Using this expression to Doctor Gauden n Postscript to his Petitionary Remonstrance that he saw some men had only guts and no bowels o Intestina non viâ—cera N. C. More words are needless in so plain a business C. I think so too No two things can be more oppoâ—ite than his Declaration and the Protectors For the one requires them not to preach and the other saies they were not forbidden to preach But this is his usual presumption He thinks no body knows that which he doth not know though alas he falls so short of that Prophesying Ape that he is ignorant even of things present which yet he makes bold to prattle of He would have the world believe that there is but one N. C. who hath found some favour upon the account of his great moderation and peaceableness And who should that be think you Hear his own words and you will give a shrowd guess p P. 225. There is one and there is not a second as I know in England who hath been taken into some consideration for the greatness of his Moderation and known Peaceableness of spirit c. I say there is one but he shall be nameless that hath found some favour upon that account c. I say that one for ought I know is the only instance in England whose Moderation in conjunction with what else might be thought to deserve some abatement of rigor hath procured him so much favour as will find him bread By these words I say as I know for ought I know I suppose you cannot but know the Gentleman And if he do not know a thing who should you may be believe it upon his word there is never another who hath been connived at but this very deserving person And if he tell you on the other side that Conformists were only shewn a great Rod heretofore which he speaks of but not one of them that I do know ever whipt with it q They are his words pag. 256. what would you desire more to perswade you of the present rigor in compare with the lenity who would think it that was used in those gracious days Philagathus knows it not this is sufficient and you ought not to enquire further Though some of us indeed who know little must needs be so bold by the leave of his Omniscience as to say that we are acquainted with many who felt the smart of that Rod. And I for my part who am very Ignorant I confess in a great many things know more than one or two that have enjoyed the same indulgence with this rare person whom he speaks of And when he tells us his name he shall know theirs if he desire it N. C. I cannot tell what to say to these things I wish he would talk less of his own knowledg C. But you know what to do unless you still think he knows all that he talks of And that is not to believe him when he tells you of hundreds of Families nay the Families of many hundreds r P. 236 of so many hundreds s P. 234. of Ministers that have hardly meat to fill their bellies or clothes to cover their nakedness You would think by his repeating it so often that he had counted them but we have reason to think he spoke at random You must first Admit t P. 233. one supposal and then he will make another and tell you it may well be supposed there were 1500 c. who as it is probable having most of them families have little or no temporal estate and then he can roundly set down hundreds many hundreds A wonderful discovery and a ready way to make thousands as easie as hundreds at pleasure Much like that of the complainers in John Lilburn's case who talkt of a hundred discoveries that might be made of the peoples miseries And the reply which one u Declaration of some proceedings of Joh. Lilb 1648. pag. 60. made to them may serve him Indeed it is true they may be made with ease It is but to sit down and write
Mr. White g Cent. 1. Example 22. he charges the Parliament with Sacriledg This was all they had to say against him together with these words That he affirm'd the great Reformers of the Church now were Hypocrites for as for the last clause that he otherways expressed great malignity against the Parliament it was but a form you know then in use when they had nothing against a man that deserved such cruel usage whether he said the latter words or no I know not but I am sure he is falsely charged with the former for he did not say the Parliament was guilty of Sacriledg as appears by the Book it self which I have read h Printed 1642. He only shews the danger of this sin and what judgments have faln upon those who were guilty of it even upon Sacrilegious Princes And his instances are such as might have given his Majesty more just reason of anger than the Parliament of whom he only says this That no man should think the nature of the sin altered if the alienation of Church-Lands be done by a National-Assembly of the Estates in Parliament and desires them rather to think it a worthy work and befitting a Parliamentary Reformation to restore the Tithes to the proper owners than taking away the residue of their Lands Gravely Praying withal to God that he would grant them wisdom to see the injustice and impiety of the peoples desires this way who for the most part are led by wicked passions and distempers rather than by Reason and Religion But it seems it was so dangerous a thing then only to name the word Sacriledg with abhorrence that the poor man lost his Living and his good Name too and suffered otherways most lamentably for desiring them to have no hand in it and praying God the ungodly desires of the people might not hurry them to that to which perhaps they had no inclination of themselves This was enough to terrifie all that had not great integrity and courage from meddling in this matter N. C. In which I wish Philag had not meddled but let it pass for it doth but make you bring out old stories which I love not to hear of C Then you think belike that it was very discreetly done of him to pass over so great a part of my Book as he hath left untoucht and only snapt at it here and there though I must confess I look upon this as a part of his disingenuity and partiality For why did he not plainly confess the truth of what I said in many places and pray you to reform Why did he not bewail the folly wherewith this poor Nation is over-run by your new invented phrases i Pag. 34 35. of Friendly Debate The kicking of your people against reproof k Pag. 17 18. the rest you 'l easily siad their reviling of Common Prayer their bold pretence to familiarity with God when they only let their tongue loose without any restraint their unreasonable antipathies to a Form of Prayer their headiness and ungovern'd passion their conceit of themselves and their own gifts their rash censures and gross superstition their contempt of Governours and malepertness toward their Superiours the licentiousness of their tongues and rejoyceing in iniquity their appropriating to themselves the name of Godly their murmuring impatience wicked and scandalous reports of Bishops without any foundation with a great heap of other things which this brisk Gentleman very nimbly and confidently skips over It seems your people have no list or leisure to think of these matters There are higher and more glorious Discoveries to take up their thoughts and they leave this dull low Morality to us The slaying of the Witnesses the downfal of Babylon the calling of the Jews c. are fit subjects for their meditation not these poor things which concern their Duty Thus Mt. Greenham observed long ago l Fifth part of his works Chap 74. p. 797. It is often the policy of the Devil to make men travail in some good things to come when more fitly they might be occupied in good things present And experience saith he teacheth that many meddle with the matters of the Church who are sâ—nseless and barren in the Doctrine of the Nowâ—â—irth In one thing indeed I must commend his ingenuity in that he fairly acknowledges they break his Majesties Law to get a living m Read p. 5. This is an honest confession and thus far he did well in not excusing the business with a company of Religious Phrases If he had also told us that a great reason of his writing against me was to get a little mony I believe he had come neareâ— the truth than when he tells us of his zeal for God But he could not hold long in a good mood For he is so kind and good natur'd to his own party that he thinks not only fear of wanting a maintenance but want of good company fit for a Scholar is sufficient to warrant their breach of the Law n Pag. 7. and at last he talks also of opportunities of doing good as if there were no opportunities but only in prohibited places Nay he asserts this most pernicious principle that they are not bound to obey the Laws unless they be forced o P. 6 Of the Book and Pref. p. 14. that is not for Conscience no nor for fear of wrath but when Justice lays hold of them and is too strong for them N. C. Why Do you read that Christ left Nazareth till they rose up and thrust him out of the City Luke 4.29 c. p Ib p 6. C. Nor do we find there was any Law against Christ's being at Nazareth Why do you not blush at this vile and beggerly way of arguing Do the Novices he talks of that come frisking into the Pulpit with the shells on their heads q P. 284. ever discourse thus weakly Is it easie to find a Boy of any parts that would reason after this childish fashion If he reason no better in his Sermons than he doth in his Writings God help the people that are instructed by him They are like to be abused even by the holy Scripture and to have many an untruth confidently imposed on them with the Word of God to avouch it And therefore had better a great deal be taught by one of those striplings if humble and modest than by this bold frisking Senior N.C. I am convinced of the impertinency of this Quotation C. And what doth the rest of his Discourse in that place amount unto but this that when men have no temptation to break a Law he hath nothing to plead in their behalf but when they have though it be but small as the want of good company or the like he desires they may be excused An excellent Casuist By this device all the world may be saved for What man is there that sins without a temptation And if men may break Laws for fear
his Associates 1648. pag. 56. by some of the Professors of Rhetorick in Newgate or Lâ—dgate whose practice of that kind of Oratory had made him as great a stranger to Truth as to Blushing Such is the Rhetorick of Philagathus who tells us of starving and famishing rags and tatters killing all the day long and crucifying tears of blood and heart bleeding and repeats these as often m Preface p. 25. Book p. 21 46 80 149 22â— 229 231 233 237 247 283 c. as they did their O O O boldly affirming or rather presuming in General terms without any particular proofs For where are those starvlings and crucified persons Where are the Martyr'd or tatter'd creatures which will wring from us tears of blood Why are they not brought forth to the view of some pitiful eye as was then said Spend no longer your breath but let all this be seen for the view gives deeper impression than mere hearsays And when they are produced into open sight we shall go near to set as many honest and worthy Conformists before you who by reason of their great charge or small maintenance are in as mean a condition and live as hardly as they The truth is this language of Philagathus as that Declaration said looks more like the ebullition of Wine than the cry of want and therefore sometime we find him in another Tune telling us that the people generally retain the same good thoughts of them that they did heretofore n P. 149. If so Why should they want now more than in time past since good thoughts will keep up good affections and those will open the heart and that the purse N. C. Ask me no Questions for I can say nothing positively in this matter C. Nor he neither For all is built upon Suppositions as I told you And you may further observe that his so many hundreds of families of pious and learned Ministers that have hardly meâ—â— c p. 234. by that time he is got to p. 247. are dwindled into the almost starved families of scores of N. C. Ministers pious and able c. When he hath better considered of it he may come down to Dossens which is a less fall by much than from Many Hundreds to Scores he could not tell how many or how few Nay his Dossens at last may shrink into some few families who to use his own word it is possible may be as tattered and ragged as his Writings The truth is his Penruns on so carelessly that he drops any thing into his Paper that comes in his way be it true or be it false be it certain or only doubtful For when I desired that your Ministers would not suffer their people to fansie themselves under persecution o P. 237. of Fr. Deb. He presently answers with much pertness would it were in our power to make them know themselves to suffer nothing but if men be turned out of all c. p P. 283. of his Answ it is a hard matter to make them insensible He had such a quick sense of himself as he tells you presently that he could not think of any thing else But because he had lost his Living imagined the people who come not to Church are turned out of all which was never before now heard of N. C. It is a mistake C. And so is his whole Discourse about Persecution which I said could not be pretended for a cause of their Separation nor hath he said a word to shew it is so grievous and intolerable as to be alledged for that purpose He talks of their suffering hard things q P. 249. but what is that to the business especially if you consider that the worst things that are inflicted on them are the effect of their Separation and contempt of Laws not the cause upon which they separated as he would have the world believe For till they left our Churches and set up Congregations of their own they were only deprived of their places not imprisoned or otherwise punished Now I pray consider seriously Did ever any man whom you account sober call it Persecution which was the thing I spoke of to suffer Deprivation for not conforming to Publick Order No it is unjustly called hard usage and to complain of this as this Whifler doth though the condition of some men become very sad thereby is to complain of all Churches even of your own when you had any power It hath always been thought necessary in all places that there should be some Order kept in the Church of Christ For which purpose they have found it as necessary that there should be some Rules and Laws which signifie nothing without Penalties to inforce them and they as little if they be not inflicted when men transgress So that in conclusion it is as necessary to punish those that will not submit to the Laws as it is to have Publick Order The French Churches r Eccles Discipline of the Reformed Churches in France translated into English 1642. Chap. 5. Art 31. are so sensible of this that they have provided in Discipline That if one or more of the people shall move or stir up strife or contention to disjoyn and break the Union of the Church concerning some Point of their Doctrine or Discipline or about the method manner or style of the Catechism of the Administration of the Sacraments or Publick Prayers and the blessing of Matrimony and will not promise not to spread ought of their opinion in any manner or way whatsoever till the Synod hath heard them they shall be censured as rebellious persons And in case they will not renounce their Errors after all means tryed to convince them then they are to be cut off from the Church But in case a Pastor or Elder s Ib. Art 32. Concerning the Consistory trouble the Peace and break the Union of the Church or cause any strife or contention about some point of Doctrine or Discipline which they have subscribed unto or about Administration of the Sacraments or the form of Catechism or Publick Prayers and Benediction of Marriage and will not yield to what the Classical Assembly shall determine he shall presently be suspended from his charge and imployment to be proceeded against at the next Provincial or National Synod And if any Minister teach false Doctrine and will not forbear after Admonition he is to be deposed as also those who are not obedient to the Admonitions of the Consistory or are convicted of Heresie Schism or Rebellion against the Ecclesiastical Order t Ib. Ch. 1. Coacerning Ministers and Pastors Art 45. As for those who thrust themselves into the Ministry in Countries and Places where the Preaching of the Gospel is already pure and lawfully established and will not desist when they are warned of it they are to be cut off quite and proceeded against as the Synods judg fit together with those that follow and adhere to them if after the
that may have a fair interpretation though I must tell you he carps and wrangles with me without any cause in the world Of which vice I must give you some instances according to my promise in the beginning and because it is very late they shall be but two which ly also very near together Mention being made in the Friendly Debate of three sorts of N. C. the last of which as you may see p. 206. c. are said to be between both he quarrels because they were not placed in the middle being a middle sort of men between the two Extreams and by the middle we must come at the Extreames y See his Book pag. 218. And yet this is the very man who in another case gives advice quite contrary to this and reasons too why the middle should come last The Building of the City I mean he would have begin at both ends where it stai'd for every body knows mark his words z Rebuild of London Discourse 19. p. 128. that it is better to proceed from extreams to the middle for virtue is in the middle to build first at both ends or extreams of the City and so to proceed to the middle from the two poles as it were to the Center N. C. I did not think men could cross themselves on this fashion C. Nothing more easy when they are resolved to be cross to others in every thing N. C. It seemes there is one rule for building of Cities and another for building of Books if you will let me so speak C. As you please But he crosses this rule he hath made for me once more in that Book For when he had told us of two Proverbs nothing venture nothing have and venture all and lose all both which sometimes proves true he then brings us to the middle way which he saith is best neither venture all nor venture nothing but venture something though not all a Discourse 40. p. 245. N. C. I begin to feare he hath an itch of finding fault where there is none for how should a man know what the middle between two extreames is till he first know them C. It 's well that I can extort that little confession from you Look a little further and tell me what you think of that passage p. 220. where upon occasion of my desiring those Ministers who are not against the Common-Prayer that they would instruct the People in the Truth and bring them to a modest and peaceable temper in order to a compliance with us he tells me in a jeering way Sir they are your journey-men and you may command them what you please or rather your poor Apprentices c. as if I desired them to do us service which God knows was not in my thoughts and not to serve the Truth and Peace of the Church of Christ This is mere perversness of spirit and argues he did not read or write with a good mind but studies more to keep up a party than to promote true Christian Religion N. C. However he tells you they can do nothing for the making up the breach Some have tried to satisfy the People about joyning in a Form of Prayer c. and it will not do p. 223. C. He speaks diffidently and saith Some it may be have tried But let us take it for a certainty and since you mention it let me say a few things briefly to it First he acknowledges then the gross ignorance and stupidity of your People which I told you of the last time who will sooner joyn with Quakers as he saith more than once b p. 15. and 227. than with us of the Church of England For that is his argument against perswading them to be reconciled to us that the next news we may hear of them shall be that they have joyned themselves to the Anabaptists or to the Quakers c. But Secondly it would be duly considered and sadly laid to heart how they came by these prejudices and antipathies against so sober a way of worshipping God as is among us Let those mis-zealous men saith Bp. Hall c Answer to the Vindication of Smectym Paragr 13 who have infused these distastes into well meaning Soules See how they will answer it at the great day to the Judg of quick and dead Surely if the case were mine I should fear it would fall heavy upon my Soul Thirdly let them all come back themselves to our Congregations though they cannot bring the people with them They will thereby do what in them lies to take away the scandal they have given and they will also leave those people who when the humour takes them may leave them and run to the wild sects where still they may enjoy more Liberty It was a good Memento of Mr. Greenhams to Brown when he first separated from our Church that he hoped he might be better informed and return again to us but he bid him bethink himself what would become of those poor Souls whom he had seduced and were carried away who might run further and further from us but never be reclaimed His words proved true for Brown returned and died a Member of the Church of England but his Sect remains to the great disturbance of it to this day It had been well if all your Ministers of this generation had thought of this and so not begun to lead away so many Souls into a mischievous Schism who may never be restored but as it is if they cannot reduce them let them come back themselves and not be worse than the Father of the Separation And Fourthly I have hope hereby that they may do some good whatsoever this man saith upon the better part of your People if they set themselves to it unanimously and with all their heart For what cannot be done by one man alone whose unsuccessful labours be untruly talks of might be done to great purpose if all were of the same pious mind and joyned in the same good work by Doctrine and Example declaring that neither they nor their Predecessors ever held there were any such foul corruptions in our Worship or Government as should be a just ground for Separation And Lastly if there be no hope at all of this what makes this Gentleman talk of an Accommodation and Union between C. and N C. and that a purpose of it seemed to be as it were publishing very lately d Preface p. 9. Sure he knows not the meaning of those words or else contradicts himself which it is as easie for him to do as it is to write N. C. That word Schism which you mentioned just now is harder to understand than Union For he seems to plead the same reason for our Separation from you which is alledged for your Separation from Rome C. That 's one of his miserable shifts and excuses which he makes for things that are sinful Is he so little a Divine as to think we separated from the Church of Rome
not enjoyned p Vindic. of Indep Churches You may as well bring a clean thing out of an unclean as make a Spiritual Extraction out of a secular root saith one q Reply of two of the Brethren to A. S. Christ hath committed the power of the Keyes to every particular member of the Church and will of every one demand an account saith another r Mr. Eatons Sermon at Knuttesford The power of the Representatives shall not extend to things Spiritual or Evangelical said the Agreement of the people Å¿ Pag. 24.20 Jan. 1649. All which was so well known not long ago that one told them in plain terms they made the civil Magistrate a Kind of Bat i. e. confined him to the twilight of Nature And that the Child may not adventure to take his lesson out of any Book but Natures Primmer t Apology for Mr. J. Goodwin 1653. p. 5. In short this is an opinion as old as the Second Admonition in Qu. Elizabeth's time where you find these words though there were never an ill word or sentence in all the Form of our Prayers yet to appoint that Form to be used though the words be good the use is naught What doth Phil. think now of his presumptuous undertaking in the behalf of the N. C. And what will he do for all those who are of this opinion whom he hath with full mouth proclaimed Rebels u A rebellious Principle it is c. your mouth waters to be calling N. C. Rebels Ib. N. C. Let them agree it among themselves for I am none of them and if you will let them take the rest which concerns that matter among them and do what they will with it C. I could make fine sport if I should enter further into that wild discourse For like a distracted man he runs from the point in hand and cryes out God forbid that any of them should say that things commanded by God ought not to be done if seconded by the command of the Magistrate N. C. If you love me do not follow that wild goose chase as we call it I know very well we were speaking of indifferent things and so lawful in themselves not of things necessary C. I have done and shall only note two or three more of his presumptions To lye a soak in the blood of Christ he presumes is an allusion to what is said of the Adamant Stone steeping in the blood of a Goat p. 46. which conceit as ill luck would have it is quite contrary to another presumption which he relyes much upon that these men speak to Trades-men to Farmers or Plough-men x See pag. 36. and p. 264. and therefore may be allowed rude expressions who know as much what belongs to Adamants as you know what belongs to Algebra N. C. Divines do ordinarily make use of this as he tells you C. Do they so Among the country hearers too the honest Farmers and Plough-men y They are his expressions p. 264. who are better pleased to hear of a mess or Boul of Pottage than with a resemblance from the Sun Moon and Stars And yet they have seen them oftner a great deal than the Adamant stone Surely they will not thus forsake their plain preaching and notwithstanding this mans presumption I do not believe that one Reader of a thousand thought of this Adamant Let 's see therefore if he can do any better in other things He makes bold to presume that because the Spirit suggested words to the Apostles therefore it doth so to us and because to them in preaching therefore to us in Prayer That is the force of his reasoning p. 96. The Apostle saith he acknowledges himself beholding to the Holy Ghost 1 Cor. 2.13 for words as well as affections and that in his ordinary preaching Now if the Spirit do suggest words in preaching why not in Prayer N. C. Now that you speak of Prayer it will keep you here a little longer Pray tell me why did you forget to mention that all this while Have you no care of your credit and reputation which is lost by what you have said of it unless you can redeem it Nay you have made your name to stink as he tells you in the Nostrils of many who before had better thoughts of you z Pag. 95. C. That 's the smallest matter of a thousand nor is it any prejudice to me if they hardly expect as it there follows to meet me in Heaven It is certain they shall not unless they get thither themselves and how to secure that is a thing should more imploy their thoughts than to be dreaming what will become of other men But as to the business you speak of I did not forget it but fully intended to have shown all the folly of his discourse about it as I have done in the rest Particularly in denying that to be a Rule to us which is infallibly dictated by the Holy Ghost a Pag. 92. And in making publique Prayer which was the thing we debated about to be for private use But now I am sensible it is too late and we shall part better friends if I let it alone for your prejudices I doubt are so great that they will either make you angry at my plainness or mis-understand that which you are not used to think of N. C. I hope otherwayes and would gladly stay so long if you can tell me your mind in short C. Part of it I can Praying by the Spirit signifies in the holy language as I take it the uttering such petitions as were immediately suggested both matter and words by the Holy Ghost according as the necessities of the Church required Such a gift I acknowledged there was in the Apostles dayes but finding no promise that it should continue to ours nor any such qualification required by Sr. Paul in a Christian Bishop I made bold to say that no man now can pray by the Spirit meaning as the Apostle did Nor dare this man say the contrary but pours out a great many words as they are wont to do when fewer would better become them concerning the Spirits bringing some things to our minds he cannot tell how much nor how little b Pag. 93. but for any thing he knows it may be nothing at all But if it do it makes nothing against me who told you in plain words if he could have raed or would not have cavilled that I spoke of a Prayer immediately dictated by the Holy-Ghost as some were in the Apostles dayes c See more in the Friendly Debiae p. 88. This he should have opposed and shown us that there is such a Divine gift which I deny And affirm that the gift of Prayer which is now so much talkt of is partly Natural and partly acquired by study observation and orderly digesting of things in our minds So that to the performance of what belongs to it in a compleat manner there is