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A56601 An appendix to the third part of The friendly debate being a letter of the conformist to the non-conformist : together with a postscript / by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. Part 3, Appendix Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P746; ESTC R13612 87,282 240

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was then too late and the case was altered The rest of the maintenance of the Clergy was in danger the very Tythes being envied to them which made it high time to say something to keep themselves from being undone after they had ruined the Bishops But it would be endless to follow this man in his vagare's and an imployment more tedious and irksome then Phocion's in chipping Demosthenes to pare off all in his Book that is not to the purpose Should I undertake it his Apology would remain a very slender tool not worth a straw For setting aside his calumnies his unjust complaints of railing jeering and what not his falsities boldly asserted his mistakes of the Question his impertinent allegation of Authorities his idle stories frivolous observations uncharitable surmises and odious insinuations his mis-representing of my words his cropping or inlarging them his false glosses and commentaries and such like things I can finde very little that looks like so much as an endeavour of a direct Answer If you be not weary I pray observe a few things on some of those Heads What a frivolous observation is that out of the Rhemish Testament about the retaining of old words which you may read in him if you will p. 42. for I shall not stand to recite it There being nothing plainer then that neither they nor we refuse to use the words Amen Fasting Charity the blessed Sacrament Alleluja and others there mentioned and yet are in no danger to believe as the Church of Rome doth nor should we though we should use the words Altar Oblation and Sacrifice as well as Lent Palm sunday and Christmas And what do you think of the tale of the Citizen or Countryman he knows not which who being askt his opinion of a Sermon said it ran or sounded thus as if he had said A pudding a pye a pudding-pye a pudding for me a pye for thee a pudding-pye for me and thee p. 65. This is the man that makes serious reflections upon the Debate just like the serious prayer of one of their present Preachers who in the presence of a numerous Auditory used these words to God which sound more like that Ryme then any Sermon that ever I heard Thou art the hope of our help and the help of our hope thou art our hope when we have no help and thou art our help when we have no hope yea thou art our hope and our help when we have neither hope nor help but are helpless and hopeless I should not have mention'd this but that there are so many witnesses of it and to show you what may be done if they will have us proceed in this way of writing No by no means I know you will say let us have no more of this stuff I am very well pleased with the motion and wish likewise they would not ground their replies upon hear says when they may believe their eyes Let him not give any credit to him whosoever he be that saith See pag. 101. of his Book I dealt disingenuously with Mr. Bridg in my quotations of him but look into his Book and make it apparent to me that I have wrested his words and I will confess it and make him the best amends I am able It is as easie I should think for a Scholar to sit in his Study and read Books as to gad up and down to hear and tell idle stories But let not the Books he reads be cited impertinently as the very Articles of the Church of England are by him An instance you have and it is the first that comes to hand but the rest are like it p. 87. For I never thought that the Fathers looked for no more then transitory promises But that it was not by vertue of the Covenant made with Moses that they looked for more I did and do affirm A great many of the Worthies mentioned Heb. 11. lived before the Law was given and the rest that followed them built their expectation on the same ground which they did But we may well pass by such vain allegations out of the Articles since the very Scriptures which he cites confute all that he saith If coming to Christ for instance and believing in him be all one which is apparent indeed from John 7.37 38. cited by him p. 79. then believing in Christ is more then relying on him for pardon of sins for to come to Christ is to become one of his Disciples and to undertake to be of his Religion This is have cleared sufficiently in the last Debate and shown withal that obedience to the Law of God is a condition of our Justification No saith this Gentleman out of I know not what Author p. 78. It is not the condition of the Covenant so properly as of those persons that enter into Covenant Which is a monstrous absurd Answer to this Question no better then to affirm and deny the same thing in the same breath For if it be the same condition and qualification of those persons that enter into the Covenant then it is the condition of their Justification which they obtain by entring into Covenant with God so qualified As for the words themselves without relation to the Question they are right enough if they be understood not to deny our obedience to be a condition required in or by the Covenant though it be not so proper to say a Condition of the Covenant For how comes our obedience to be a necessary condition or qualification of the persons entring into Covenant but by the Covenant That requires it and doth not promise Justification without it and therefore is a Condition in the Covenant of Grace But I have neither list nor leisure to trace his steps in these things which I would wish him not to meddle withal till he know where the very pinch of the Controversie lyes then we may end it one way or other in a few words Let him forbear also his odious insinuations as that I think the Papists good subjects p. 67 suggest the N. C. lay'd aside the Lords Prayer because of that Petition Forgive us our trespasses c. p. 39. and that they dislike the common-Common-prayer onely or chiefly because taken out of the Mass-book There are no such things said or intimated in my Book And yet he himself dare not say that he knows no N.C. that refuse to joyn in it solely or chiefly on that account but that he knows scarce one intelligent N. C. Very likely He may know notwithstanding multitudes of silly ones and here and there one whom he takes to be intelligent But this is nothing to what this intelligent Non-conformist suggests concerning the Meetings of Dr. Gunning and others in the late times for Common-prayer as if they were as much Conventicles as any now p. 68. Whereas they were according to the Common-Law and not against it unless he will maintain that Ordinances were Law as much as Acts of Parliament If that still lye