let him as though there were some variance betwene the people and the minister or as though he were afraide of some infection of plage And in dede it renueth the memory of the Leuitical priesthode whych did withdrawe himselfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinnes of the people Likewise for Mariage he cometh backe againe into the body of the church and for baptisme vnto the church dore what comelines what decency what edifying is thys Decencie I say in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and after that sort where he can worst be harde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the primitiue church both the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sitting amongste the rest to the ende he myght be the better heard rose not that only but that he stode in the midst of the people that his voyce might as much as might be come indifferently to all their eares and so standing both prayed and preached Now if it be said for the chapters Letany there is commaundement geuen that they shuld be red in the body of the church in deede it is true and therof is easely perceiued this disorder whych is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end and partly in the further end of the chauncell For seeing that those are red in the body of the church that the people may both heare and vnderstand what is red what shuld be the cause why the rest should be red farther of vnles it be that either those things are not to be heard of them or at the least not so necessary for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or midst of the church And if it be further sayd that the boke leaueth that to the discretion of the ordinarye and that he may reforme it if there be any thing amis then it is easely answered again that besides that it is against reason that the commoditye and edifying of the church should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduise and discretion it should be well or euell wyth the church Besides this I say we see by experience of the disorders whych are in many churches and dioceses in thys behalfe how that if it were lawfull to commit such authority vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill quitten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience wherof being so easely sene and so easely reformed there is notwythstanding so greate and so generall an abuse And the end of the order in the boke is to be obserued which is to kepe the praiers in the accustomed place of the church chappell or chauncell whych how maketh it to edification And thus for the generall faultes committed either in the whole Liturgy or in the most part of it both that I may haue no nede to repete the same in the particulares and that I be not compelled alwayes to enter a new disputation so ofte as M. Doctor sayeth very vnskilfully and vnlike a deuine whence so euer thys or that come so it be not euill it may be well established in the church of Christ Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whych is prescribed wherin the authors of the admonition declare that their meaning is not to disalow of prescript seruice of prayer but of thys forme that we haue For they expound themselues in the additions vnto the first part of the admonition It is not to any purpose that M. Doctor setteth himselfe to proue that there may be a prescript order of prayer by Iustine Martyrs testimony which notwithstanding hath not one word of prescript forme of prayers only he sayth there were prayers He sayth in dede the auncient fathers say that there hathe bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the churches although they do say so yet all men may vnderstand easely that M. doctor speaketh thys rather by coniecture or that he hath heard other mē say so for so much as that Doctor whych he hathe chosen out to speake for all the rest hath no such thing as he fathereth on him He sayeth that after they haue baptised they pray for them selues for hym that is baptised and for all men that they may be mete to learne the truth and to expres it in their honest conuersation and that they be found to kepe the commaundements that they may attaine to eternal life but is this to say the there was a prescript forme of prayer when he sheweth nothing els but the chefe poynts vpon the whych they conceiued their prayers If you had alleaged thys to proue what were the matters or principall poyntes that the primitiue church vsed to pray for you had alleaged thys to purpose but to alleage it for a profe of a prescript forme of prayer when there is not there mētioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer whych is the asking of our petitions in the name and through the intercession of our sauior Christ without the whych there is not nor cannot be any prayer argueth that either you litle know what the forme of prayer is or that you thought as you charge the authors of the admonition so often that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination But for as muche as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the church let that go thys that I haue sayd is to shew that when M. Doctor hapneth of a good cause whych is very seldome in this boke yet then he marreth it in the handling After he affirmeth that there can be nothing shewed in the whole boke whych is not agreeable vnto the word of God. I am very lothe to enter into this field albeit M. Doctor dothe thus prouoke me bothe because the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking when they vnderstand that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynte as for that some fewe professors of the gospell being priuate men boldened vpon such treatises take such wayes sometimes and breake forth into such speaches as are not meete nor conuenient Notwythstanding my duetie of defending the truthe and loue whych I haue first towardes God and then towards my countrey constraineth me being thus prouoked to speake a fewe woordes more particularly of the fourme of prayer that when the blemishes thereof doe appeare it may please the Queenes maiestie and her honourable Councell wyth those of the Parliamente whome the Lorde hathe vsed as singulare instrumentes to deliuer thys realme from the hotte furnaice and iron yoke of the popishe Egipte to procure also that the corruptions whych we haue broughte from them as those wysh whych we being so deepely dide and stained haue not so easely shaken
hath prescribed but he hath prescribed no such forme of pollicy that one byshop should be ouer all the mynisters and churches in a whole diocese or one archbyshop ouer all the ministers and churches in a whole prouince therefore thys forme of pollicy which is by archbyshops and such byshops as we haue is not the meanes to knitte vs one to an other in vnitie vnder the domynion of Christ Touching the titles and names of honor which are geuen to the Ecclesiasticall persones with vs and how that princes and cyuill magistrates may and ought to haue the title which can not be geuen to the mynisters I haue spoken before and therefore of archbyshops archdeacons and the lord byshops thus farre To the next section contayned in the. 77. 78. and a peece of the. 79. page BEfore I come to speake of prayers I will treate of the faults that are committed almost thrughout the whole Leyturgy publike seruice of the church of England Whereof one is that which is often obiected by the authors of the admonition that the forme of it is taken from the church of Antichrist as the reading of the Epistles and Gospels so cutte mangled as the most of the prayers the maner of mynistring the Sacraments of Mariage of Buriall Confirmation translated as it were word for word sauing that the grosse erroures and manifest impieties be taken away For although the formes ceremonies which they vsed were not vnlawfull and that they contayned nothing which is not agreeable to the word of God which I would they dyd not yet notwithstanding neyther the worde of God nor reason nor the examples of the eldest churches both Iewishe and christian doe permitte vs to vse the same formes and ceremonies being neyther commaunded of God neyther such as there may not as good as they and rather better be established For the word of God I haue shewed before both by the example of the apostles conforming the Gentiles vnto the Iewes in their ceremonies not contrariwise the Iewes to the Gentiles by that the wisedom of God hath thought it a good way to keepe hys people from the infection of idolatry and superstition to seuere them from idolaters by outwarde ceremonies and therefore hath forbidden them to do things which are in them selues very lawfull to be done Now I will adde thys further that when as the Lord was carefull to seuere them by ceremonies from other nations yet was he not so carefull to seuere them from any as from the * Egiptiās amongst whom they liued from those nations which were next neighbors vnto them because from them was the greatest feare of infection Therefore by this constant perpetuall wisedome which God vseth to keepe his people from idolatry it followeth the the religion of God should not only in matter substance but also as far as may be informe fashion differ from the of the idolaters especially the papistes which are round about vs and amongst vs For in deede it were more safe for vs to conforme our indifferent ceremonies to the Turkes which are far of then to the papistes which are so neare Common reason also doth teach that contraries are cured by their contraryes now Christianitie and Antichristianitie the gospell and popery be contraries therefore antichristianitie must be cured not by it selfe but by that which is as much as may be contrary vnto it So that a medled mingled estate of the order of the gospell the ceremonies of popery is not the best way to banish popery And therfore as to abolishe the infection of false doctrine of the papistes it is necessary to establish a diuers doctrine to abolish the tirāny of the popish gouernment necessary to plant the discipline of Christ so to heale y infection y hath crept into mens myndes by reason of the popish order of seruice it is meete that the other order were put in the place thereof Philosophie which is nothing else but reason teacheth that if a man will draw one from vice which is an extreeme vnto vertue which is the meane that it is the best way to bring hym as far from that vice as may be and that it is safer and lesse harme for him to be led somewhat too farre then he shuld be suffered to remayne within the borders and contines of that vice wherewith he is infected As if a man would bring a droncken man to sobrietie the best and nearest way is to cary hym as farre from hys excesse in druicke as may be and if a man could not keepe a meane it were better to fault in prescribing lesse then he shoulde drincke then to faulte in geuing hym more then he ought As we see to bring a sticke which is crooked to be straight we doe not only bow it so farre vntill it come to be straight but we bende it so far vntill we make it so crooked of the other side as it was before of the first side to thys end that at the last it may stand straight and as it were in the mid way betwene both the crookes which I do not therfore speake as though we ought to abolishe one euill and hurtfull ceremony for an other but that I would shew how it is more daungerous for vs that haue bene plunged in the mire of Popery to vse the Ceremonies of it then of any other idolatrous and superstitious seruice of god Thys wisedome of not conforming it selfe vnto the ceremonies of the Idolaters in things indifferent hath the church followed in times passed Tertullian sayth O sayth he better is the relygion of the heathen for they vse no solemnitie of the Christians neyther the Lordes day neyther the Pentecoste and if they knew them they woulde haue nothing to doe with them for they would be afrayd least they should seeme Christians but we are not afrayd to be called heathen Constantine the Emperor speaking of the keeping of the feaste of Easter sayth that it is an vnworthy thing to haue any thing common with that most spitefull company of the Iewes And a little after he sayth that it is most absurd and agaynst reason that the Iewes should vaunt and glory that the Christians could not keepe those things without their doctrine And in an other place it is sayd after thys sort It is conuenient so to order the matter that we haue nothing common with that nation The Councelles although they dyd not obserue them selues alwayes in making of decrees thys rule yet haue kept thys consideration continually in making theyr lawes that they would haue the christians differ from others in their ceremonies * The councell of Laodicia which was afterward confirmed by the sixthe generall councell decreed that the Christians should not take vnleauened breade of the Iewes or communicate with their impietie * Also it was decreed in an other councell that they should not decke theyr houses with baye leaues and greene
of certen that haue bene killed thereby you mighte as well bryng in a prayer that men may not haue falles frō their horses may not fal into the hands of robbers may not fall into waters and a number such more sodaine deathes wherwith a greater number are taken away then by thundrings or lightnings and such like and so there should be neuer any end of begging these earthly cōmodityes whych is contrary to the forme of prayer appoynted by our sauioure Christe And wheras you alledge the petition of the Lords prayer deliuer vs from euill to proue this prayer against Thunder c. besides that all the commodities and discommodities of thys life are prayed for and prayed against in that petition whereby we desire oure daily breade it is very straunge to apply that to the thunder that is vnderstanded of the deuill as the article apo tou ponerou dothe declare And that it is a maruellous cōclusion that for so much as we ought daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from the Deuill Ergo we oughte daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from thunder It is one thing to correct Magnificat and an other thing to shew the abuse of it And therfore I see no cause why you should vse this allusion betwene Magnificat significat vnles it be for that you purposing to set out all your learning in thys boke wold not so much as forget an old rotten prouerb whych trotted amongst the monkes in their cloisters of whome I may iustly say whych Tullie sayd in a nother thyng Nec quicquam ingenium potest monasterium that is the cloister coulde neuer bring forthe any witty thing for heere although there be Rythmus yet it is sine ratione As these are diuers things more then ought to be conueniently so wante there some things in the prayers There are prayers set forthe to be sayde in the common calamities and vniuersal scourges of the realme as plague famine c. and in dede so it ought to be by the word of God ioyned wyth a publike fast commaūded not only when we are in any calamity but also when any the churches round about vs or in any countrey receiue any generall plague or greeuous chastisement at the Lordes hand But as suche prayers are needefull whereby we beg release from our distresses so there ought to be as necessary prayers of thāks geuing whē we haue receiued those things at the Lords hand whych we asked in our prayers And thus much touching the matter of the prayers eyther not altogither sound or else too much or too little Concerning the fourme there is also to be misliked A great cause wherof is the folowing of the forme vsed in Popery against whych I haue before spoken For whilest that seruice was set in many poynts as a paterne of this it cometh to pas that in stead of suche prayers as the primitiue churches haue vsed those that be reformed now vse we haue diuers short cuts shreddings whych may be better called wishes then prayers And that no man thinke that thys is some idle fancie that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse so that the prayers be good it must be vnderstanded that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whych our sauior Christ hys apostles haue preached vnles the same forme of doctrine and of teaching be likewise kept so is it not enough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God vnles that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture Now we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shuld pray in .ij. or .iij. lines and thē after hauing red a while some other thing come and pray as much more and so to the .xx. and .xxx. time wyth pauses betweene If a man shoulde come to a Prince and keepe suche order in making hys petitions vnto hym that hauing very many things to demaund after he had demaunded one thing he would stay a long time and then demaunde an other and so the thirde the prince myght well thinke that eyther he came to aske before he knew what he had nede of or that he had forgotten some pece of hys sute or that he were distracted in hys vnderstanding or some other such like cause of the disorder of his supplication And therfore how much more conuenient were it that according to the manner of the reformed churches first the minister wyth an hūble and general confession of faults shuld desire the assistance of the Lord for the frutefull handling and receiuing of the word of God and then after that we haue heard the Lord speake vnto vs in hys worde by hys minister the church should likewise speake vnto the Lord and present all those petitions and sutes at once bothe for the whole churche and for the Prince and all other estates whych shall be thought needefull And if any will say that there are short prayers found in the Actes it may be answeared that S. Luke doth not expres the whole prayers at large but only set downe the summes of them and their cheefe poyntes And further it may be answeared that alwayes those praiers were continued together and not cut off and shred into diuers small peeces An other fault is that all the people are appoynted in diuers places to saye after the minister wherby not only the time is vnprofitably wasted a confused voyce of the people one speaking after an other caused but an opinion bredde in their heads that those only be their prayers whych they say and pronounce with their owne mouthes whych causeth them to geue the les heede to the rest of the prayers whych they reherse not after the minister whych notwithstanding are as well their prayers as those whych they pronounce after the minister otherwise then the order whych is left vnto the church of God dothe beare For God hath ordained the minister to thys ende that as in publike meetings he only is the mouthe of the Lorde from hym to the people euen so he ought to be only the mouthe of the people from them vnto the Lorde and that all the people shoulde attende to that whych is sayde by the minister and in the ende bothe declare their consent to that whych is sayde and there hope that it shall so be and come to pas whych is prayed by the worde Amen as S. Paule declareth in the Epistle to the Corinthians And Iustine Martyr sheweth to haue bene the custome of the churches in hys time Although these blots in the Common prayer be such as may easely enough appeare vnto any whych is not wedded to a preiudicate opinion and that there is no great difficultye in thys matter yet I knowe that thys treatise of prayer will be subiect to many reprehensions and that there will not be wanting some probable coloures also wherby
wrytings and paraphrases vpon the scryptures are estemed comparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall wryting wyth any whych hath laboured that wayes And if any mennes wrytings were to be red in the church those paraphrases whych in explanyng the scrypture go least from it and whych kepe not only the numbre of sentences but almost the very numbre of words were of all most fitte to be red in the churche Seeing therfore I say the church of God then abstained from such interpretations in the church and contented it selfe wyth the scryptures it can not be but a moste dangerous attempt to bryng any thyng into the church to be red besydes the word of god Thys practise continued still in the churches of God after the apostles times as may apeare by the second Apologie of Iustin Martyr which sheweth that theyr manner was to read in the church the monuments of the prophets and of the apostles and if they had red any thyng else it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe consydering that hys purpose there is to shewe the whole order whych was vsed in their churches then The same may appear in the first Homilye of Oregine vpon Exodus and vpon the Iudges And as for M. Bucers authoritye I haue shewed before how it ought to be wayghed heere also it is suspitious for that it is sayd that hys aduise was when the lord should blesse the realme wyth moe learned preachers that then order should be taken to make more homilyes whych should be red in the church vnto the people As if M. Bucer dyd not know that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme whych were able to make homilies so many as the volume of them myght easely haue exceeded the volume of the Byble if the multytude of homilyes would haue done so much good And if the authority of M. Bucer beare so great a sway wyth M. Doctor that vpon hys credite only wythout eyther scripture or reason or examples of the Churches primitiue or those whych are now he dare thrust into the church homilies then the authorities of the most ancient best councels ought to haue ben considered whych haue geuen charge that nothyng should be red in the church but only the canonicall scriptures For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea the nothing shuld be red in the church but the canonicall bokes of the olde and newe testament and reckeneth vp what they be Afterward as corruptions grew in the church it was permitted that homilies myght be red by the deacon when the minister was sicke and coulde not preach and it was also in an other councel of Carthage permitted that the martyrs liues might be red in the church But besides the euill successe that those decrees had vnder pretence wherof the popishe legende and Gregories homilies c. crept in that vse and custome was controlled by other councels as may appeare by the coūcell of Colen albeit otherwyse popishe And truely if there were nothing else but thys consideration that the bringing in of the reading of Martyrs liues into the church and of the homilies of auncient wryters hath not only by thys meanes iustled with the Bible but also thrust it cleane out of the church or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene it ought to teach all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God be they neuer so well learned as long as the world should endure And if any man obiect that by thys meanes also is shut out of the churche the forme of ordinary prayers to be sayd I say the case is nothing lyke for when we pray we can not vse the words of the scripture as they orderly lie in the text But for so muche as the churche prayeth for diuers thyngs necessarye for it the whych are not contained in one or two places of the scripture and that also there are some thyngs whych we haue neede of whereof there is no expresse prayer in the scripture it is needefull that there be a forme of Prayer drawne forthe out of the scrypture whych the church may vse when it meeteth as the occasyon of the time dothe require whych necessity can not be by no meanes alledged in the reading of Homilies or Apochrypha Wherevpon appeareth that it is not so wel ordained in the churche of Englande where bothe Homilies and Apochrypha are red especially when as diuers chapters of the bookes called Apocrypha are lyfted vp so high that they are sometime appoynted for extraordinary lessons vpon feastes dayes wherin the greatest assemblies be made and some of the chapters of the canonicall scripture as certen chapters of the Apocalipse quite left oute and not red at all Vnto the two next sections I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of holy dayes and of kneeling at the Communion it followeth to speake vnto the section contained in the. 183. and. 184. pages ALthough it will be hard for you to proue that thys worde priest commeth of the Greke word presbyteros yet that is not the matter but the case stādeth in thys that for so much as the common and vsuall speach of England is to note by the word priest not a minister of the gospel but a sacrificer which the minister of the gospell is not therefore we ought not to call the ministers of the gospell priests and that thys is the Englishe speache it appeareth by all the English translations whych translate alwayes hiereis whych were sacrificers priests and do not of the other syde for any that euer I red translate presbyteron a priest Seeing therfore a priest wyth vs and in our tonge dothe signifye both by the papistes iudgement in respect of their abhominable masse and also by the iudgement of the protestant in respect of the beasts whych were offered in the law a sacrificing office whych the minister of the gospell neyther dothe nor can execute it is manifest that it can not be wythout great offence so vsed The next three sections I haue before answeared wher I haue spoken of the abuses in baptisme crossing and interrogatories it foloweth to speake vnto the section contained in 194. 195. 196. pa. IF it be M. Bucers iudgement whych is alledged heere for the ring I see that sometimes Homere sleapeth For first of all I haue shewed that it is not lawfull to institute new signes and sacraments and then it is dangerous to doe it especially in this whych confirmeth the false and popyshe opinion of a sacrament as is alledged by the admonition And thirdly to make suche fonde allegories of the laying downe of the money of the roundnes of the ring and of the mystery of the fourth finger is let me speake it wyth hys good leaue very ridiculous and farre vnlike hym selfe And fourthly that he wil haue the minister to preach vpon these toyes surely it sauoreth not of the learning and sharpnes of the
we teach nothing les thē that there is no true church but in Englande If the churches be considered in the partes whether minister or people there is none pure vnspotted and this is the faith of the true Church and not of the Donatistes If it be considered in the whole and generall gouernment and outward pollicie of it it may be pure and vnspotted for any thing I know if men would labor to purge it The Donatists vaūted them selues to be exempted from sinne and what likelyhode is there betwene any assertion of the authors of the Admonition and this fansy of the Donatists To the last poynt of no compulsion to be vsed in matters of religion denying it to be true I reserue the further answer to another place To the next section Salomon sayth the the beginning of the words of an vnwise mā is folishnes but the later end of thē is mere madnes euen so it falleth out by you for whilest you suffer your self to be caryed hedlong of your affections you hurle you know not what nor at whome what so euer commeth first to hande speake things that the eyes and eares of all men heare see to be otherwise Whilest you compare them to Anabaptists Donatists some frend of yours myght thinke you said truely because such alwayes seking darke and solitary places might happely haue some fauorers whych are not knowen But when you ioyne them with y papists which are commonly knowne to all men whose doctrine they impugne as wel as you whose marks badges they can les away with then you whose company they flie more then you whose punishment they haue called for more then you for your part haue done and therfore are condemned of them as cruell when you oftentimes cary away the name of mildnes and moderation whych forsothe knowe as you haue professed no commaundement in the scrypture to put heretikes to death when I say you ioyne them thus with papistes you do not only leese your credite in these vntrue surmises wherein I trust with the indifferent reader you neuer had any but you make all other thyngs suspected whych you affirme so that you geue men occasion to take vp the common prouer be against you I will trust you no further then I see you After you haue thus yoked them wyth the papistes you go about to shew wherin they draw wyth them Wherin first I aske of you if all they that affirm or do any thing that the enemies of the church do are forthwith ioyned and conspired wyth them against the church what say you to s Paule that ioyned with the * Pharisies in the resurrection with the false apostles in taking no * wages of the Corinthians to oure sauioure Christe which spake against the Iewes whych were then the only people of God as the Gentils did whych were their ennemies wil you say therfore that either S. Paule ioyned with the Pharisies or false Apostles against the church or that our sauioure Christ ioyned against the Iewes wyth the Gentiles but let vs see your slaunders particularly To the first They do not deny but there is a visible church of God in England therfore your saying of them y they do almost in plaine and flat termes say that we haue not so much as any outward face shew of the true church argueth that you haue almost no loue in you which vpon one word once vttered contrary to the tenure of their boke course of their whole life surmise this of thē and how truly you conclude of that word skarce it shall appeare when we come to that place To the second I haue answered this in the 2. article of Anabaptisme the you charge vs with To the third Thys also is answered in the thirde To the fourth I answer that they do not condemne it wholely but finde fault with it as in some poynts disagreeing wyth the word of God. To the fifth All men shall perceiue when I come to that place howe you haue racked their words to an other sense then they spake them In the meane season it is enough that they confes that reading in the church is godly To the sixth I haue answeared in the tenth Article of Anabaptisme To the seuenth I answer that * Doeg when he sayd that Dauid came to Abimelech said nothing but truth and when they that witnessed against Christe that he sayde * destroy the temple and in three dayes I will build it vp againe sayde nothing but that our sauior Christ sayd But yet Doeg was a slaunderer and the other false witnesses because the one spake it of minde to hurt the other vnderstode it of an other temple then oure sauioure Christ ment it So although you doe in parte rehearse their wordes yet taking them contrary to their meaning whych myght easely appeare by the circumstances I see not howe you can be free from these faultes vnles it be done ignorantly whych I wishe were true for your owne sake And here I wil desire thee gentle reader to marke with what conscience this man sayth that they are ioyned and confederate with papists against the church The papistes mislyke of the boke of common prayer for nothing els but because it swarueth from their masse boke and is not in all poynts like vnto it And these men mislike it for nothyng els but because it hath too much likelyhode vnto it And iudge whether they be more ioyned wyth the papists whych would haue no communion nor felowship wyth them neither in ceremonies nor doctrine nor gouernment or they whych forsaking their doctrine retaine parte of their ceremonies and almost their whole gouernment that is they that seperate them selues by three walles or by one they that would be parted by the brode sea from them or which would be deuided by narowe water where they may make a bridge to come in againe and displace the truthe of the gospell as they haue done in times past They that would not only vnhorse the Pope but also take away the stirrops whereby he should neuer get into the saddle agayne or they which being content wyth that that he is vnhorsed leaue his ceremonies hys gouernment especially as stirrops whereby he may leape vp againe when as occasion serueth They that are content only to haue cut the armes and body of the tree of antichristianitie or they which wold haue stumpe and roote all vp The last section After you haue all to be blacked and grimed wyth the inke of Anabaptisme Donatisme and Papisme those whome you found cleare from the least spot or specke of any of them you whet the sword and blow the fire and you will haue the godly magistrate minister of your choler and therfore in stead of feare of leesing the multitude of your liuings forgoing your pompe and pride of men and delicacy of fare vnlawfull iurisdiction which you haue and heereafter loke for conscience religion and
sette downe hys iudgement before needed not to haue repeated it here agayne But the Greeke wordes you say catakyrieuousin kai catexousiazousin doe signifie to rule wyth oppression and why may not I saye that thys preposition cata doth not signifie heere a peruersnesse of rule but an absolutenesse and a full power and iurisdiction as catamathein catalambanein is not to learne or to perceyue euilly and peruersly but to learne exactly and to perceiue throughly and perfectly but what neede we to followe coniectures in so playne a matter when as Saint Luke vseth the simple wordes without any composition of exousiazein Kai Kyrieuein doe you not perceyue that the preposition wherein you put so great confidēce deceiueth you besides the manifest vntruth you commit in saying that all three Euangelistes haue katexousiazousin katakyrieuousin Furthermore you say that our sauioure Christ sayeth not that no man shall be great amongst them but he that desireth to be great amongst them He had sayd so before when he had sayd it shall not be so amongst you and therefore needed not to repeate it and yet an other Euangelist sayeth not he that desireth to be great but let the greatest among you be as the least VVherby he doth not reprehend only the desire of being great but will not haue them to be one aboue an other To the last reason Last of all you conclude that our sauiour Christ in the 20. of Mathew reproueth the ambition of the sonnes of zebede and in the 22. of S. Luke all the rest of the Apostles I graunte you he dothe so and that coulde not be done better then in tellyng them that they desired things not meete for them and which woulde not stande with their calling And if as you say the ambition only was reprehended and the desire of rule to oppresse others wyth the answere you attribute to our sauioure is not so fitte For they myght haue replyed and sayde that he forbad tyrannicall rule and oppression of their inferioures but they desired that which was a moderate and well ruled gouernment And semeth it vnto you a probable thing that S. Luke meaneth tyrantes and oppressors when as he sayth they are called beneficiall or gracious Lordes men doe not vse to call oppressors liberall or bountifull Lordes Neyther is it to be thought of all the Apostles that they desired rule one ouer an other to the ende that they would vse crueltie or tyrannie or oppression one ouer an other for that were to doe them great iniurie Besides that it is sayde that the rest of the disciples disdayned at the two brethren whyche they would not haue done if they had had any purpose or mynde to haue oppressed them For then they would haue contemned them rather then haue disdayned them if they had broken out into suche grose faultes For Aristotle teacheth that nemesis which is the same that aganactesis is the verbe whereof the Euangelist vseth is agaynst those that are supposed of them that beare the disdayne to be lifted vp higher and into better estate then they are worthy of whych agreeth wyth that interpretation whyche I haue alleaged and can not agree wyth the other whych you set downe For who speaking properly would speake after thys sort The residue of the Apostles disdayned at the two brethren or thought them vnworthy that they should beare tyrannicall rule ouer them To the section that beginneth touching the place in 23. of Mathew and so vntill howe aptly Concerning the exposition and sence of that place I agree with you and suppose that it is quoted of the authors of the admonition rather to note the ambition of certayne which gape greedely at these byshopprickes which we haue to the ende they mighte be saluted by the name of Lordes and honoures then to proue that one minister should not haue dominion ouer an other And therefore although these places be agaynst no lawfull authoritie of any estate or condition of men yet as they are aptly alledged against the bishop of Rome the one against his estate and authoritie simply the other agaynst hys tyrannie and euill vsage of hym selfe in that authoritie so it may be aptly alleaged agaynst any other which shall fall into the like fault of the byshop of Rome The purenesse that we boast of is the innocencie of our sauioure Christ who shall couer all our vnpurenesse not impute it vnto vs And for so much as fayth * purifyeth the hart we doubt not but God of his goodnes hath begon our sanctification and hope that he will make an ende of it euen vntill the day of our Lord Iesus Albeit we holde dyuers poyntes more purely then they doe which impugne them yet I know none that by comparison hath eyther sayd or written that all those that thinke as we doe in those poyntes are more holy and more vnblameable in life then any of those that thinke otherwise If we say that in those poynts which we holde from them we thinke soundlier then they doe we are ready to proue it If we say also that we lyue not so offensiuely to the world commonly by getting so many lyuinges into our handes as would finde foure or fiue good learned able ministers all the worlde will beare vs witnes Other purenes we take not vpon vs And therefore as the name was first by the Papistes maliciously inuented so is it of you very vnbrotherly confirmed Whereas you say that they are Puritanes which suppose the church which they haue deuised to be without all impuritie if you meane without sinne you doe notably slaunder them and it is already answered If you meane that those are Puritanes or Catharans which do set forth a true and perfect patern or platforme of reforming the church then the marke of thys heresy reacheth vnto those which made the booke of common prayer which you say is a perfect and absolute rule to gouerne this church wherein nothing is wanting or too little nor nothing running ouer nor too much As for the Catharans which were the same that are otherwise called Nouatians I know no suche opynion they had they whome you charge are as farre from their corruption as you be An answere to that which is contayned in the. 20. 21. and 22. page vntill Now if eyther godly Councels YOu geue occasion of suspition that your end will be skarce good which haue made so euill a beginning For whereas you had gathered out of the Admonition that nothing should be placed in the Church but that God hath in hys word commaunded as though the wordes were not playne enough you wil geue them some light by your exposition And what is that you answere that it is as much as though they would say nothing is to be tollerated in the church of Christe touching eyther doctryne order ceremonies disciplyne or gouernment except it be expressed in the word of god Is thys to interprete is it all one to say nothing
many meete and where be the examples of the olde church which had besydes the temple at Ierusalem erected vppe synagogues in euery towne to heare the worde of God and mynister the cyrcumcysion what is become of the commaundement of our sauioure Christ whych * wylled his discyples that they should preache openly and vpon the house toppes that which they heard in the eare of hym and secreately and howe doe we obserue the example of our sauyour Christ who to delyuer hys doctryne from all suspytion of tumultes and other dysorders sayd that he preached openly in the temple and in the synagogues albeit the same were very daungerous vnto hym the example of the * Apostles that dyd the same For as for the tyme of persecution when the church dare not nor is not meete that it should shewe it selfe to the ennemy no not then is the word of God nor the sacraments priuately preached or ministred neyther yet ought to be For althoughe they be done in the house of priuate man yet because they are ought to be ministred in the presence of the congregation there is neyther priuate preaching nor priuate baptisme For like as where so euer the Queenes maiestie lyeth there is the Courte althoughe it be in a Gentleman hys house so wheresoeuer the churche meeteth that place is not to be holden priuate as touching the prayers preachings and sacraments that shal be there ministred So that I denye vnto you that the churche hathe power to ordaine at her pleasure whether preaching or ministring of sacramentes should be priuate or publicke when they ought not to be but where the church is and the church ought not to assemble if it be not letted by persecution but in open places And when it is driuen from them those places where it gathereth it selfe togither although they be otherwise priuate yet are they for the time that the churches doe there assemble and for respect of the worde and sacraments that are there ministred in the presence of the church publike places And so you see those whome you charge slaunderously wyth conuenticles are faine to glase vp the windowes that you open to secreate and priuate conuenticles The Answere from Nowe if either godly councels vnto I trust M. Caluins iudgement will weigh HEere are brought in Iustin Martyr Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian and councels as dumme persons in the stage only to make a shewe and so they go out of the stage without saying any thing And if they had had any thing to say in this cause for these matters in controuersye there is no doubt but M. Doctor would haue made them speake For when he placeth the greatest strength of hys cause in antiquitie he would not haue passed by Iustin Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian being so auncient and taken Augustin whych was a great time after them And if the godly councels coulde haue helped heere it is small wisedome to take Augustine and leaue them For I thinke he might haue learned that amongst the authorities of mē the credite of many is better then of one and that thys is a generall rule that as the iudgement of some notable personage is loked vnto in a matter of debate more then theirs of the common sorte so the iudgement of a councell where many learned men be gathered together caryeth more likelyhode of truthe wyth it then the iudgement of one man although it be but a prouinciall councell much more then if it be a generall and therfore you do your cause great iniurie if you could alledge them and do not Thys is once to be obserued of the reader throughout your whole boke that you haue well prouided that you would not be taken in the trip for misalledging the scriptures for that onles it be in one or two poynts we heare continually instead of Esay and Ieremy S. Paule and S. Peter and the rest of the Prophets and Apostles S. Augustin and S. Ambrose kai to en te phake myron Dionysius Areopagita Clement c. And therfore I can not tell wyth what face we can call the papistes from their antiquitie councels and fathers to the triall of the scriptures who in the controuersies whych rise amongst our selues flie so farre from them that it wanteth not much that they are not banished of your part from the deciding of all these controuersies And if thys be a sufficient proofe of things to say suche a Doctor sayde so suche a councell decreed so there is almost nothing so true but I can impugne nothing so false but I can make true And well assured I am that by their meanes the principall groundes of our faith may be shaken And therfore because you haue no proofe in the worde of God we comfort our selues assured that for so muche as the foundations of the Archbyshop and Lordship of Bishops and of other things which are in question be not in heauen that they wil fall and come to the ground from whence they were taken Nowe it is knowne they are from beneath and of the earthe and that they are of men and not of God The answearer goeth about to proue that they came yet out of good earthe and from good men whych if he had obtained yet he may well know that it is no good argument to proue that they are good For as the best earth bringeth forth weedes so do the best men bring forth lies and errors But let vs heare what is brought that if thys visarde and shewe of truthe be taken away all men may perceiue howe good occasion we haue to complaine and howe iust cause there is of reformation In the first place of S. Augustine there is nothing against any thing whych we hold for thys that the church may haue thyngs not expressed in the scripture is not againste that it oughte to haue nothing but that may be warranted by the scripture For they may be according to the scripture and by the scripture whych are not by plaine termes expressed in the scripture But against you it maketh muche ouerturneth all your building in this boke For if in those things whych are not expressed in the scripture that is to be obserued of the Church whych is the custome of the people of God and decree of oure forefathers then howe can these things be varyed according to time place persons whych you say should be when as that is to be retained which the people of God hath vsed the decrees of the forefathers haue ordained And thē also how can we do safelier then to folow the apostles customes and the churches in their time which we are sure are our for fathers the people of god Besides that how can we retaine the customes and constitutions of the papists in such things which were neither the people of God nor our forefathers I wil not enter now to discus whether it were wel done to fast in al places according to the custome of the place
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what
disciplyne no church For they deny we haue the word or sacramēts because we hold not theyr word sacrifice but if there be that so reason yet these men that you charge haue neyther any such antecedent or such a consequent for they neuer sayde that there is no ministerie in Englande nor yet do euer conclude that there is no worde no sacraments no dysciplyne nor church For in saying that the face of the church doth not so much appeare for so the whole proces of their booke doth declare that they meane when they say that we haue not scarse the face of the church they graunt that we haue the church of God but that for want of those ornaments which it shuld haue and through certayne the deformed ragges of poperie which it should not haue the churche doth not appeare in her natiue colours and so beautifull as it is meete she should be prepared to so glorious a husband as is the sonne of god Say you certaynly and doe you beleue that the authors of thys booke are conspired wyth the papystes to ouerthrow thys church and realme Now certaynly I will neuer doe that iniury vnto them as once to go about to purge them of so manifest slaunders nor neuer be brought by the outrage of your speaches to proue that noone day is not mydnight And therfore as for you I will set your conscience and you together The reader I will desire not to thinke it a strange thing For it is no other then hath happened to the seruaunts of God euen from those which haue professed the same relygion which they dyd as it appeareth in Ieremy whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites that he had conspyred with the Babylonyans their mortall ennemyes and layde to hys charge that he was going to them when he was going to Beniamin To the. 36. 37. 38. page IT maketh for the purpose whiche is alleaged out of the first of the actes to proue that there ought to be tryall of those which are chosen to the ministerie for when S. Peter sayth that suche a one must be chosen as hathe bene contynually conuersant with our sauioure Christ and from the beginning of his preaching vntill the day wherein he ascended into heauen he ment nothing els but that such a one should be chosen which was sufficiently instructed and had bene contynually a scholer of our sauioure Christe and therefore fitte to teache and to witnes that which they had seene and whose godly conuersation was notoriously knowne Besides that albeit those two Mathyas and Barsabas were therefore set vp in the myddest that the church in the prayer that was made for their election myghte by seeing them pray the earnestlyer for them yet it was also as much to say that if any could obiect any thing agaynst them that he should preferre hys obiection And whether they were examined or no the matter is not great neyther when it is sayde that a tryall should be had it is ment that when the parties are famously knowne to those whych haue the right of trying as that there shoulde be alwayes necessaryly an apposing and examyning so that the sufficiencie of doctryne and holynesse of lyfe for the whych cause the tryall and examynation is commaunded be knowne and agreed vpon by them that choose it is enough And so these two being notoriously knowne and consented of by the churche to bee fitte men myght happely not be examyned but yet the wordes of S. Peter declare playnly that in the choyse of them there was regarde had to both their abilitie to teach and honesty of conuersation And although there be certayne thinges extraordinary in this election as that such a one must be chosen which hadde bene conuersant with our fauioure Christ and that there were two put vp for one place and that it was permitted to lottes to cast the Apostleship vpon one of them two as if the Lord should by the lottes from heauen tell who should haue it yet it followeth not to say that the rest of the things that are there vsed should not be practised in ordinary callinges for as much as they will well agree with them And M. Caluin in the place you alledge sayth that the ordinary callinges somwhat differ from the calling of the Apostles and after sheweth wherein that is in that they were appoynted immediatly of God and by his mouthe whereby it appeareth that for the residue of those thyngs whych are there mentioned he holdeth that they may well stande wyth the ordinarye elections And where you saye that the sixt of the Actes because it speaketh of Deacons is nothyng to the matter me thynke you shoulde haue easely vnderstanded that if a triall be necessary in Deacons whych is an vnder office in the church and hath regard but to one parte of the church whych is the pore and is occupied in the distribution of money much more it ought to be in an office of greater charge which hath respect to the whole church and is occupyed in the dispensing of the holy word of God. But in the ende you agree that they shoulde be tryed so that nowe the quection standeth only howe and by what meanes wherein you for your part saye that the booke of ordering mynisters is a suffycient and good rule I haue red it and yet I can not commende it greatly But you will say not wyth iudgement or indifferencie I will promise you with this indifferencie that I wyshed that all that is there were good and conuenyent and such as I myght say vnto so be it Wyth what iudgement I doe disalow it I leaue it to all men to esteeme vpon these reasons First that the examynation of hys doctryne wholely and partly of hys life is permitted to one man For consydering of the one parte the greatnesse of the charge that is committed vnto the mynisters and the horrible pearill that commeth vnto the church by the want of those thinges that are required in them and of the other parte wrighing the weakenesse of the nature of man which althoughe he seeth many thinges yet hee is blynde also in many and that euen in those thinges which he seeth he suffereth hym selfe to be caryed away by his affection of loue or of enuie c. I say considering these thinges it is very daungerous to commit that to the view and searche of one man which may wyth losse danger and more safetie be referred vnto dyuers For herein the prouerbe is true plus vident oculi quam oculus And almost there is no office of charge in thys realme which lyeth in election committed so sleightly to any as that vpon one mans reporte of hys habilitie all the rest which haue interest in the election will geue their voyces so that if we were destitute of authoritie of the scripture the very lyght of reason would shew vs a more safe and weryer way But there is greater authoritie for S. Luke in the first
number of mens heartes yet which might much be helped by the bringing in of that custome agayne of burying the deade in some honest place out of the towne therto appoynted To the next sections in the. 52. and. 53. pages IF you shoulde begette and be a father of many bookes and all your children like their eldest brother you woulde without better aduise shake manye groundes of our religion For heere agayne you wyshe that all pastors were able to teache but that being vnpossible as the estate is nowe you are content with pastors or ministers that can doe nothing but reade You through out your whole booke make thys a maruellous good estate and alwayes turne the best side outwarde and when men goe about to vrge the deformities thereof to the ende they mighte be remedyed then you lay open the shame and nakednesse of it and make it greater then it is in deede For as I haue shewed before the churche standeth not so muche in neede of youre reading ministers as you would make the worlde beleeue And althoughe it be a great deformitie and sore plage of the church which you heere speake of and confesse at vnwares yet you will let no man come neare to heale it There be some make a gayne by sores and sore legges and therefore they haue a medicine to keepe their woundes alwayes greene that they shoulde not heale I hope you do not of purpose keepe the churche in this estate but thys I dare say that the cheefe of your gaine and of your honour consisteth and is grounded in the ruines of the church and therefore I desire you to looke vnto it But what if the estate of the churche be such as you speake of that it will skarce yelde three preaching pastors and bishops in some diocesse may you therefore make reading ministers In deede if the Apostle had made this a counsell only and no commaundement that pastors of churches should be able to teache then your saying might haue bene borne But seeing that S. Paule hathe commaunded expressedly that he should bee able to teache and to conuince the gaynesayers I woulde learne of you gladly what necessitie there is whiche can cause a man to breake the morall law of God to bring in a tradytion of man You maye as well breake any other commaundement of God for necessyties sake as breake thys being comprehended in the first table And to say that these that can only read must be tolerated in the churche as ministers is to saye because you can haue no pastors in the churches you will haue idolles For so will I not doubt to call them although through ignoraunce of that which they do some may be good men But yet in respect of the place that they occupy they are idolles for they stande for that and make shew of that which they are not and admit you them as often as you will the Lord pronounceth that they shall be no ministers to him which haue no knowledge But let vs heare your reason there muste bee reading in the churche therefore there must bee ministers whiche can doe nothing else Then we may reason thus to There must be breaking of bread and distributing of the cuppe in the church and pouring on water therefore whosoeuer is able to breake a loafe of bread or to lift a cup of wyne or to poure on water on the body of the childe may be made a minister And did you neuer reade that there were readers in the church when there were no reading ministers but of reading of the scriptures and prayers in the church there will be a fitter place to speake afterwarde where it shall be shewed how vniustly you surmise these thinges of them Touching Homilies shall be spoken more hereafter where further occasion is geuen I doe not vse to maintayne the places which are quoted althoughe they be truely alleaged for the causes which I haue before mentioned but yet I can not but speake of this place of S. Luke for feare of the daunger that may ensue For if thys be a good reason that the place of S. Luke may not be vsed to proue that preaching is perpetually annexed to the ministerie because in the same place is made mention of curing of diseases which is but a temporall thing and followed the ministerie but for a tyme then the commaundement of S. Iames that the Elders of the Churche shoulde praye for those that are sicke is now no commaundement because putting on of handes and annoynting of them that they myghte recouer theyr healthe hathe no place and by thys meanes you will pull from vs many places of the new Testament as you dyd before of the olde What dealing is this to bring men into suspition of that which they neuer thought of as though there were any woorde that sounded to this that a man should put him selfe into the office of preaching without the approbation of those men to whome it doth pertayne Their complaynt is that those which are ordayned pastors and therefore to preach can not doe it without further licence As if a man should be charged to doe a thing forthwith and then he that chargeth hym bindeth him hande and foote that he can not doe it vnles he will lose hym The Byshoppes inhable hym to teache and poynte hym a place to teache in and yet they will not let hym teache vnlesse he haue a further licence If hee be an hereticke or schismatike or suspected of any suche thing why is he admitted or being admitted why is he suffered to be so much as a reader in the church And because you could not answere thys therefore you set vp a fansie of youres to confute And thus you fyght without an aduersary and you make triumphes where there is no victory They will say vnto you that not only vnder a godly Magistrate but not in the time of persecution any man ought to take vpon him any function in the church vnles he be thereunto called by men except he haue a wonderfull calling which is rare and must be diligently examyned by them which haue it least vnder pretence of the spirite of God whome they make author of their calling it fall out that it be but their own headlong affection that hath thrust them in so farre they are from the frensic of Anabaptistes whiche you by a confutation of that which they neuer affirmed would seeme to staine them with To the section beginning in the latter ende of the. 53. page vntill the middest of the 62. page THe Cappe the Surplice and Tippet are not the greatest matters wee striue for which notwithstanding hath bene informed to the churches beyond sea to the ende that the iudgements of some might be the eastyer had against vs Howbeit we thinke it an attire vnmeete for a minister of the gospel to weare and the Surplice especially more then the other two because suche hurtfull ceremonies are so muche more daungerous as they
shal haue one in euery congregation For Iustin declareth there the Leyturgie or maner of seruing God that was in euery church vsed of the Christians And I pray you let it be considered what is the office of that proestos and see whether there be any resemblance in the world betwene hym and an archbyshop For he placeth hys office to be in preaching in conceiuing prayers in mynistring of the sacramentes Of any commaundement which he had ouer the rest of the mynisters or of any such priuiledges as the archbyshop hath he maketh not one worde It may be that the same myght haue the preheminence of calling the rest together and propounding the matter to the rest of the company and such lyke as is before declared As soone as euer you found proestos you snatched that by and by and went your wayes and so deceyue your selfe and others But if you had red the whole treatise you should haue founde that he was proestos of the people for thus it is written in the same Apologie Epeita prospheretai to Proestoti ton adelphon artos Afterwarde bread is brought to the president of the brethren calling the people as S. Paule doth continually brethren And therefore these are M. Doctors argumentes oute of Martyrs place There was a mynister which dyd stande before or was president of the rest in euery particulare church and congregation therefore there was an archbyshoppe ouer all the prouince And agayne there was one which ruled the people in euery congregation therfore there was one that ruled all the mynisters through out the whole prouince And albeit things were in great puritie in the dayes that Iustin liued in respect of the tymes which followed yet as there was in other things which appeare in hys workes and euen in the ministration of the sacramentes spoken of in that place corruption in that they mingled water and wine together so euen in the ministerie there began to peepe out some thing which went from the simplicitie of the gospel as that the name of proestos which was common to the elders with the ministers of the word was as it seemeth appropriated vnto one Another of M. Doctors reasons for to proue the archbyshop is that Cyrill maketh mention of an high priest wherunto I answere that he that bringeth in a priest into the church goeth about to bury our sauiour Christ for although it myght be proued that the worde priest were the same with the Greekes presbyteros yet as shall appeare in hys place is the vse of thys word priest for a mynister of the gospell very daungerous And as for hym that bringeth in an high priest into the church hee goeth about to put our sauiour Christ out of hys office who is proued in the Epistle to the Hebrues to be the only high priest and that there can be no more as long as the worlde endureth And yet if all thys were graunted you are not yet come to that which you desire to proue that is an archbyshoppe For if you looke in Theodorete you shall fynde thys woorde archierosyne which signifyeth the highe priesthoode to be nothing else but a byshoppricke and in the. 7. chapter of that booke and so forth dyuers tymes you shall haue archiereus taken for a byshop as speaking of the councel of Nice he sayth that there was 318. archiereis highe priestes Now I thincke you wil not say there were 318. archbyshops If you do you are confuted by all ecclesiasticall wryters that euer I red which speaking of them call them byshops Chrysostome followeth which as M. Doctor sayth ruled not only the church of Constantinople but the churches of Thracia Asia and Pontus he sayth it out of Theodorete But heerin it may appeare that eyther M. Doctor hath a very euill conscience in falsifying wryters that in the poyntes which he in controuersie or else he hath taken hys stuffe of certayne at the seconde hand without any examination of it at all For heere he hath set downe in stead of had care of the churches in Thracia c. ruled the churches the Greke is epoieito ten promethcian it is translated also prospexit so that it appeareth he fetched it neyther from Theodorite in Greeke nor in Latine And what is thys to proue an archbyshoppe that he had care of these churches there is no minister but ought to haue care ouer all the churches through christendome and to shew that care for them in comforting or admonishing of them by wryting or by visiting them if the necessitie so require and it be thought good by the churches and leaue obtayned of the place where he is mynister vppon some notable and especiall cause being some man of singular giftes whose learning and credite may profite much to the bringing to passe of that thing for the which he is to be sent After thys sort * S. Cyprian being in Affricke had care ouer Rome in Europe and wrote vnto the church there After thys sort also was * Ireneus byshoppe of Lions sent by the French churches vnto the churches in Phrigia And after thys sort haue M. Caluin and M. Beza bene sent from Geneua in Sauoy to the churches of Fraunce Now if you will conclude heereupon that Cyprian ruled the churche of Rome or Ireneus the churches of Phrigia or maister Caluin or M. Beza the churches of Fraunce or that they were byshops or archbyshops of those places you shall but conclude as you were wont to doe but yet all men vnderstand that heere is nothing lesse then an archbyshop or any such byshoppe as we haue and vse in our church And if so be that Chrysostome should be byshop or archbyshop of al these churches which were in al Asia Pontus Thracia as you wold geue the reader to vnderstand you make hym byshop of more churches then euer the Pope of Rome was when he was in hys greatest pryde and hys Empire largest For there were sixe presidentships in Thracia and in Asia there were a eleuen Princes and had seuerall regions or gouernmentes and in Pontus as many and if he were byshop or archbyshop of all the churches within these dominions he had neede of a long spone to feede with all It is certayne therefore that he was byshop only of the church in Constantinople and had an eye a care to those other churches And that he was byshop of one citie or of one church it may appeare by that which I haue before alleaged oute of the Greeke Scholiaste vpon Titus who citeth there Chrysostome where it is sayd that S. Paule dyd not meane to make one ouer the whole I le but that euery one should haue hys proper congregation c. * And in an other place he sheweth the difference betweene the Emperour and the byshop that the one is ouer the world and the other that is the byshop is ouer one citie Touching Theodorete byshop of Cyrus to let pas that which the bishops of
of may be remoued from amongst vs to the end that we being nearelyer both ioyned vnto the sincerity of the gospell and the pollicy of other reformed churches may therby be ioyned nearer wyth the Lord and may be set so far from Rome that both we may comfort our selues in the hope that we shall neuer returne thether againe our aduersaries whych desire it and by this too much agreement with them and too little wyth the reformed churches hope for it may not only be deceiued of their expectation but also being out of all hope of that whych they desire may the soner yeelde themselues vnto the truth whervnto they are now disobedient And as for the papistes triumphe in thys case I shall not greatly neede to feare it considering that their discords and contentions are greater and that our strife is because we would be farther from them For the other that profes the gospell I will desire in the name of God that they abuse not my labor to other end then I bestowe it and that they keepe them selues in their callings commit the matter by prayer vnto the Lord leauing to the ministers of the word of god and to the magistrates that whych appertaineth vnto them To come therfore to touch thys matter I answer that there is fault in the matter and fault in the fourme In the matter for that there are things there that ought not to be and thyngs there are wanting in the order that shuld be Of the first sort is that we may euermore be defended from all aduersity Now for as much as there is no promise in the scripture that we should be free from all aduersity and that euermore it semeth that this prayer might haue bene better conceiued being no prayer of faith or of the whych we can assure our selues that we shall obtaine it For if it be sayd that by the worde aduersity is meant all euill we know that it hath no such signification neither in this tongue of oures neyther in other tongues whych vse the same worde in common wyth vs but that it signifieth trouble vexation and calamitye from all the whych we may not desire alwayes to be deliuered And whatsoeuer can be alledged for the defence of it yet euery one that is not contentious may see that it needeth some caution or exception In the collect vpon the twelfth sonday after Trinitie sonday and likewise in one of those whych are to be sayd after the Offertorie as it is termed is done request is made that God would geue those thyngs whych we for oure vnworthynes dare not aske whych carieth wyth it still the note of the popishe seruile feare and sauoureth not of that confidence and reuerēt familiaritie that the children of God haue thorough Christ wyth their heauenly father For as we dare not wythout our sauioure Christ aske so much as a crumme of bread so there is nothing whych in hys name we dare not aske being needefull for vs and if it be not needefull why should we aske it And if all the prayers were gathered together and referred to these two heades of Gods glory and of the thyngs whych pertaine to this present life I can make no Geometricall and exact measure but verely I beleue there shal be found more then a third part of the prayers whych are not psalmes and texts of scriptures spent in praying for and praying against the commodities and incommodities of this life whych is contrary to all the arguments or contents of the prayers of the churche whych are sette downe in the scripture and especially of our sauior Christes prayer by the whych ours ought to be directed which of .vij. petitions bestoweth one only that wayes And this these foresayd prayers do not only in generall words but by deducting the commodities and incommodities of thys life into their particulare kindes we pray for the auoiding of those dangers which are nothyng neare vs as from lightning and thundering in the midst of winter from storme and tempest when the weather is most faire and the seas most calme c. It is true that vpon some vrgent calamity a prayer may and ought to be framed whych may beg eyther the commodity for want whereof the Church is in distres or the turning away of that mischeefe whych eyther approcheth or whych is alreadye vppon it but to make those prayers whych are for the present time and daunger ordinarye and dailye prayers I can not hetherto see any either scripture or example of the primitiue churche And heere for the simples sake I will set downe after what sorte thys abuse crept into the church There was one Mamercus bishop of Vienna whych in the time of great earthquakes whych were in Fraunce instituted certaine supplications whych the Grecians we of them call the Letany whych concerned that matter there is no doubte but as other discommodities rose in other countreys they likewise had prayers accordingly Nowe Pope Gregorie eyther made himselfe or gathered the supplications that were made againste the calamities of euery countrey and made of them a great Letany or supplication as Platina calleth it and gaue it to be vsed in all churches whych thing albeit all churches might do for the time in respect of the case of the casamity whych the churches suffered yet there is no cause why it should be perpetuall that was ordained but for a time and why all landes should pray to be deliuered from the incommodities that some land hathe bene troubled wyth The like may be sayd of the gloria patri and the Athanasius Crede it was first brought into the churche to the ende that nen thereby should make an open profession in the church of the diuinitie of the sonne of God against the detestable opinion of Arius and his disciples wherwith at that time maruellously swarmed almost the whole christendome now that it hath pleased the Lord to quench that fire there is no such cause whye these things should be in the church at the least why that gloria patri should be so often repeated Moreouer to make Benedictus Magnificat and Nunc dimittis ordinarye and daily prayers seemeth to be a thing not so conuenient considering that they do no more concerne vs thē all other scriptures do and then doth the Aue Maria as they called it For although they were prayers of thanks geuing in Simeon ʒacharie and the blessed virgin Mary yet can they not be so in vs whych haue not receiued lyke benefites they may be added to the number of Psalmes and so song as they be but to make daily and ordinary prayers of them is not wythout some inconuenience and disorder And so haue I answeared vnto those thyngs whych are contained in the 202. 203. pages sauing that I must admonish the reader that wheras you will proue that we ought to haue an ordinarye prayer to be deliuered from danger of thunder lightnings c. because there are examples
God as also as S. Paule teacheth a declaration and profession that wee are at one with oure brethren so that it is fyrst a sacrament of the knitting of all the body generally and of euery member particularly with the heade and then of the members of the body one with an other Now therefore seeing that euery particular church and body of Gods people is a representation and as it were a liuely portraiture of the whole church and body of Christ it followeth that that which we can not doe with all the church scattered throughout the whole world for the distances of places whereby we are seuered we ought to doe with that church whereunto God hath raunged vs as much as possibly or conueniently may be The departing therefore of the rest of the church from those three or fower is an open profession that they haue no communion fellowshippe nor vnitie with them that doe communicate and lykewise of those three or foure that they haue none with the rest that ioyne not them selues thereunto when as both by the many grapes making one cuppe and cornes making one loafe that whole church being many parsons are called as to the vnitie which they haue one with an other and altogether amongst them selues so to the declaration and profession of it by receiuing one with an other and altogether amongst them selues And as if so be that we do not celebrate as we may possibly and conueniently the supper of the Lord we thereby vtter our want of loue towardes the Lord which hath redeemed vs so if we doe not communicate together with the churche so farre forth as we may do conueniently we betray the want of our loue that we haue one towardes an other And therefore S. Paul dryuing heereunto willeth that one shoulde tary for an other reprehending that when one preuenteth and commeth before an other saying that that is to take euery man hys owne supper and not to celebrate the Lords supper Not that so many men or women as there came so many tables were for that had not bene possible in so great assemblyes but that they sorted them selues into certayne companyes and that they came scattering one after an other and that in stead of making one supper of the Lord they dyd make dyuers These things being considered the reason which the Admonition vseth in the 185. page where thys matter is spoken of which is drinke you all of thys is not so rydiculous as M. Doctor maketh it For although that it doe neyther proue that 12. or 20. or any other definite number must of necessitie receyue yet it proueth that as all they which were present dyd communicate And so as many as in the church are fit to receiue the sacraments or may conueniently receiue them together shoulde follow that example in celebrating the supper together And it is probably to be thought that if our sauiour Christ had not bene restrayned by the law of God touching the passeouer vnto hys owne family and to as many onely as would serue to eate vppe a Lambe by them selues that he would haue celebrated hys supper amongst other of hys disciples and professoures of hys doctryne But for so muche as it was meete that hee shoulde celebrate hys supper there and then where and when hee dyd celebrate hys passeouer for the cause before by me alleaged it pleased hym to keepe hys first supper with the fewer for that the law of communication vnto the passeouer which was ioyned wyth the supper woulde not admit any greater number of communicants then was sufficient to eate vp the passeouer And althoughe it be cleare and playne that when it is sayde drincke ye all of thys and tary one for an other these sayinges are ment of that particulare congregation or assembly which assemble themselues together to be taught by one mouth of the mynister yet I haue therefore put thys caution as muche as may be possyble least any man shoulde cauill as though I would haue no communion vntill all the godly through the world should meete together Likewise I haue put thys caution as much as may be conueniently for although it be possible that a perticulare church may communicate at one table in one day and together yet maye the same be inconuenient for dyuers causes As if the number should be very great so that to haue them all communicate together it would require suche a long tyme as the tarying out of the whole action would hazarde eyther the lyfe or at least the health of dyuers there Agayne for as much as other some being at the churche it is meete that other should be at home vppon occasyon of infantes and suche lyke thinges as require the presence of some to tary at home In these cases and suche lyke the inconueniences doe delyuer vs from the gilte of vncharitablenes and forsaking the fellowship of the church for that wee doe not heere seuere oure selues but are by good and iust causes seuered which gilte wee shall neuer escape if beside suche necessarye causes wee pretende those that are not or hauing not so muche as a pretence yet notwythstanding seperate our selues as the dayly practise thorough out the church doth shew But it may be obiected that in thys poynt the booke of Common prayer is not in fault which doth not only not forbid that all the church should receiue together but also by a good godly exhortation moueth those that be present that they should not departe but communicate altogether It is true that it doth not forbid and that there is godly exhortation for that purpose but that I say is not enough for neither should it suffer that three or foure should haue a communion by them selues so many being in the church meete to receiue and to whom the supper of the Lord doth of right appertaine it ought to prouide that those whych woulde wythdrawe them selues shoulde be by Ecclesiasticall discipline at all times and now also vnder a godly Prince by ciuill punishment brought to communicate wyth their brethren And thys is the law of God and thys is now and hath bene heeretofore the practise of churches reformed All men vnderstand that the passeouer was a figure of the Lords supper and that there should be as straight bonds to binde men to celebrate the remembrance of our spirituall deliuerance as there was to remember the deliuerance out of Egipt But whosoeuer did not then communicate with the rest at that time when the passeouer was eaten was excommunicated as it may appeare in the boke of Numbers where he sayeth that whosoeuer did not communicate being cleane his soule should be cut off from amongst the people of god Therfore thys neglect or contempt rather of the Lordes supper ought to be punished wyth no les punishment especially when as after the church hath proceeded in that order whych our sauior Christ appoynteth of admonishing they be not sory for their fault and promise
amendement And that this was the custome of the churches it may appeare by the. 9. of those canons whych are fathered of the apostles wher it is decreed that all the faithfull that entred into the congregation and heard the scriptures red and dyd not tary out the prayers the holy Communion should be as those whych were causers of disorders in the church seperated from the church or as it is translated of an other depriued of the Communion Also in the councell of Braccara it was decreed that if any entring into the church of God heard the Scriptures and afterward of wantonnes or losenes wythdrewe hym selfe from the communion of the sacrament and so brake the rule of discipline in the reuerende sacraments should be put out of the church till such time as he had by good frutes declared hys repentaunce But heere also may rise an other doubt of the former wordes of Moses in the boke of Numbers for seing that he maketh thys exception if they be cleane it may be sayd that those that depart do not fele themselues mete to receiue and therfore depart the other .iij. or .iiij. or moe feele themselues meete and disposed for that purpose whervpon it may seeme that it is neither reason to compell those to come which feele not themselues meete nor to reiect them that feele that good disposition and preparation in themselues For answer whervnto we must vnderstand that the vncleannes whych Moyses speaketh of was such as men could not easely auoid and whervnto they might fall sometimes by necessary duety as by handling their dead whych they were by the rule of charitye bound to burye sometimes by touching at vnwares a deade body or by sitting in the place where some vncleane body had sitten or by touching such things whych the law iudged vncleane which thing cannot be alleaged in those that are now of the church For as many as be of it and wythall of suche discretion as are able to proue and examine themselues can haue no excuse at all if they may be at the church to withdraw themselues from the holy supper of the lord For if they will say that they be not meete it may be answered vnto them that it is their owne fault and further if they be not meete to receiue the holy sacrament of the supper they are not meete to heare the woord of God they are not meete to be partakers of the prayers of the church and if they be for one they are also for the other For with that boldnes and wyth that duetye or lawfulnes I speake of those whych are of the church and of discretion to examine themselues I say wyth what lawfulnes they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the word of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes supper And to whomsoeuer of thē the Lord wil communicate himselfe by preaching the word vnto the same he wil not refuse to communicate himselfe by receiuing of the sacramēts For whosoeuer is of Gods housholde and familye he neede not be afraide to come to the Lords table nor dout but that the Lord will fede him there and whatsoeuer he be that is a membre of the body of Christ may be assured that he receiueth life frō Christ the head as well by the arteries condints of the supper of the Lord as by the preaching of the word of god So that it must needes folow that the not receiuing of those whych depart out of the church whē there is any communion celebrated procedeth either of vaine and superstitious feare growing of grose ignorance of themselues and of the holy sacraments or else of an intollerable negligence or rather contempt of the whych neither the one nor the other shuld be either borne wyth or nourished either by permitting .iij. or .iiij. to communicate alone or els in letting them whych depart go so easely away with so great a fault whych ought to be seuerely punished And vpon thys either contempt or superstitious feare drawne from the papists Lenton preparation of 40. dayes eareshrift displing c. it commeth to pas that men receyuing the supper of the Lord but seldome when they fall sicke must haue the supper ministred vnto them in their houses whych otherwise being once euery weke receiued before should not brede any such vnquietnes in thē when they can not come to receiue it Although as I haue before shewed if they had neuer receiued it before yet that priuate receiuing were not at any hand to be suffered And thus hauing declared what I thinke to be faulty in the communion boke in thys poynt and the reasons why and wyth all answeared to that whych eyther M. doctor alleageth in thys place of the. 80. and. 81. and likewise in the. 152. 185. pages touching thys matter I come now vnto that whych is called the Iewishe purifying by the admonition and by the seruice boke afore time the purification of women Now to the churching of women in the which title yet kept there seemeth to be hid a great part of the Iewish purification For lyke as in the old law shee that had brought forthe a childe was holden vncleane vntill suche time as shee came to the temple to shew her selfe after shee had brought forthe a man or a woman so thys terme of churching of her canseme to import nothing els thē a banishment as it were a certen excommunication from the church during the space that is betwene the time of her deliuery of her comming vnto y church For what doth els thys churching implie but a restoring her vnto y church whych cā not be without some bar or shutting forth presupposed It is also called the thanks giuing but the principall title whych is the directory of this part of the Liturgie placed in the top of the leafe as the whych the translator best liked of is churching of women To pas by the that it wil haue thē come as nigh the communion table as may be as they came before to y high altare because I had spoken once generally against such ceremonies y of all other is most Iewish approcheth nerest vnto the Iewish purification y she is commaūded to offer accustomed offrings Wherin besides that the very word offring caryeth with it a strong sent suspitiō of a sacrifice especially being vttered simply without any addition it can not be without danger that the boke maketh the custome of the popish church whych was so corrupt to be the rule measure of this offring And although the meaning of the boke is not the it shuld be any offring for sin yet this manner of speaking may be a stūbling stock in the way of y ignorant simple the wicked obstinate therby are confirmed hardned in their corruptions The best which can be answered in this case is the it is for the relief of the minister but thē it shuld be
remeÌ„bred first that the minister liueth not any more of offerings Secondarily that the paiment of the ministers wages is not so conuenient either in the church or before all the people And thirdly y therby we fal into y fault whych we condemne in popery that is y besides the ordinary liuing apoynted for the seruice of the priests in the whoâ—e they toke for their seueral seruices of masse baptisme burying churching c. seueral rewards which thing being of the seruice boke wel abolished in certain other things I caÌ„not see what good cause there shuld be to retain it in this and certain other Now wheras m. D. saith that the place of the. 15. of the Acts alledged by the admonition maketh nothing against this he shuld haue considered that if it be a Iewish ceremony as they suppose it it is to be abolished vtterly For it being shewed there the all the ceremonial law of Moses is don away through our sauior Christ this also a part thereof must nedes be therin comprised And whereas he saith that it being nothing els but a thanks geuing for her deliuerance can not be therfore but christian very godly I answer the if there shuld be solemne and expres geuing of thanks in the church for euery benefit eyther equal or greater theÌ„ thys whych any singular person in the church dothe receiue we should not only haue no preaching of the word nor ministring of the sacrameÌ„ts but we shuld not haue so much leysure as to do any corporal or bodily worke but shuld be like vnto those heretikes which wer called of the Syriake word Messalians or continual prayers whych did nothing els but pray For the Psalme 121. spoken of in the 155. page it being shewed that it is not meete to haue any such solemne thankes geuing it is needeles to debate of the Psalme wherewyth the thankes geuing shuld be made And wheras in 101. and. 102. pages vnto the admonition obiecting that the comming in the vaile to the church more then theÌ„ at other times is a token of shame or some folly committed M. D. iestingly leaueth the matter to the womeÌ„s answer A little true knowledge of diuinity would haue taught him that the bringing in or vsurping wythout authority any ceremony in the congregation is bothe an earnester matter then may be iested at and a waightier then shoulde be permitted vnto the discretion of euery woman considering that the same hath bene so horribly abused in time of poperye The holy dayes folow of whych M. Doctor sayth that so they be not vsed superstitiously or vnprofitably they may be commauÌ„ded I haue shewed before that they were If they were so indifferent as they are made yet being kept of the papistes whych are the enemies of God they ought to be abolished And if it were as easy a matter to pull oute the superstition of the obseruing of those holydayes out of mennes heartes as it is to protest and to teache that they are not commaunded for any religion to be put in them or for any to make conscience of the obseruing of them as thoughe there weresome necessary worshyp of God in the keping of them then were they much more tollerable But when as the continuance of them doth norishe wicked superstition in the mindes of men and that the doctrine whych shuld remedy the superstition through the fewnes skarcitye of able ministers can not come to the most part of them whych are infected wyth this disease and that also where it is preached the frute therof is in part hindred whylest the common people attend oftentymes rather to that whych is done theÌ„ to that whych is taught being a thyng indifferent as it is sayd it ought to be abolyshed as that whych is not only not fittest to holde the people in the sincere worshypping of God but also as that whych keepeth them in their former blindnes and corrupt opinions whych they haue conceyued of such holy dayes And if they had bene neuer abused neyther by the Papistes nor by the Iewes as they haue bene and are daily yet suche making of holy dayes is neuer wythout some great daunger of brynging in some euill and corrupt opinions into the mindes of men I will vse an example in one and that the chefe of holy dayes most generally of longest time obserued in the church whych is the feast of Easter whych was kept of some more dayes of some fewer How many thousands are there I will not say of the ignorant papistes but of those also whych professe the gospell whych when they haue celebrated those dayes with dilygent heede taken vnto their life and wyth some earnest deuotion in praying and hearing the word of God do not by and by thinke that they haue well celebrated the feast of Easter and yet haue they thus notably deceiued them selues For S. Paul teacheth that the celebrating of the feast of the christians Easter is not as the Iewes Easter was for certen dayes but sheweth that we must keepe thys feast all the dayes of oure life in the vnleauened bread of sincerity and of truth By whych we see that the obseruing of the feast of Easter for certain dayes in the yeare doth pul out of our mindes or euer we be aware the doctrine of the gospell and causeth vs to rest in that neare consideration of our dueties for the space of a few dayes which should be extended to alour life But besides the incommodities that rise of making such holy dayes and coÌ„tinuing of those whych are so horribly abused where it is confessed that they are not necessary besides this I say the matter is not so indifferent as it is made I confes that it is in the power of the churche to appoynt so many dayes in the weeke or in the yeare in the whych the congregation shal assemble to heare the word of God and receiue the sacraments and offer vp prayers vnto God as it shall thinke good according to those rules whych are before alleaged But y it hath power to make so many holy dayes as we haue wherin no man may worke any parte of the day and wherin men are commaunded to cease from their daily vocations of plowing and exercising their handy crafts c. that I deny to be in the power of the church For proufe wherof I will take the fourth commaundement and no other interpretation of it then M. doctor alloweth of in the. 174. page whych is that God licenseth and leaueth it at the liberty of euery man to worke sixe dayes in the weeke so that he rest the seuenth daye Seeing that therefore that the Lord hath left it to all men at libertye that they myght labor if they thinke good sixe dayes I say the church nor no man can take thys liberty away from them and driue them to a necessary rest of the body And if it be lawfull to abridge the liberty of the church in
and that the mynister made prayers and thankes geuing in the hearing of the people which is that which the Euangelistes call the blessing and hath bene of later tymes called the consecration and after that the people were partakers of them that then thys being done the deacons dyd cary of that which was left vnto those which were not present for that corruption of sending the communion vnto the houses was then in the churche agaynst which I haue before spoken now if to cary to a priuate house the breade and wyne which was blessed or set a part by prayers by obeying the institution of Christ by the mynister be to mynister the sacrament of the supper then Serapions boye of whome mention is made by Eusebius mynistred the sacrament For Serapion being sicke as I haue before shewed and sending hys boye to the mynister for the sacrament receiued the same at the handes of hys boye for that the mynister being sicke could not come hym selfe so by M. Doctors reason Serapions boye mynistred the sacrament And a man would not thinke that one that hath bene the Quenes Maiesties publike professor of diuinitie in Cambridge should not know to distinguish put a difference betwene mynistring the sacrament helping to distribute the bread and the cup of the sacrament And if M. Doctor could not learne thys in bokes yet he might haue eyther sene it or at least heard tell of it in all the reformed churches almost where the Deacons doe assist the mynister in helping of hym to distribute the cuppe and in some places also the bread for the quicker and spedyer dispatch of the people being so many in number that if they should all receiue the bread and the cuppe at the mynisters hand they should not make an end in eight houres which by that assistance may be finished in two which is tha◠that M. Caluin sayth For he sayth the Deacons dyd reach the cup maketh no mention of the bread And if thys be to mynister the sacrament then they that cut the loafe in peeces they that fetch the wine for the supper they that poure it forth from greater vessels into glasses and cuppes or whosoeuer aydeth any thing in thys action doe mynister the sacrament then the which thing there can be nothing more ridyculous In the ende M. Doctor to shut vp thys matter sayth that it is the first steppe to the mynistery and so ioyned of S. Paule in the third chapter and first Epistle to Timothe But what a reason is thys to be a Deacon is the first step to the mynistery therefore the Deacon may preach and mynister the sacraments when as the contrary rather followeth For if it be a step to the mynistery then it is not the mynistery but differeth from it and so ought not to doe the things that belong to the mynister But I deny that it is or ought to be alwayes a steppe to the mynistery I knew that it hath bene the vse of long tyme I know also that there be very many which interpreate the place of S. Paule where he speaking of the Deacons that behaue them selues well that they get them selues a good bathmon that is a degree to be a mynister or a byshop But I will shew a manifest reason why it can not so be vnderstanded which is for that as the functions of a Deacon or a mynister are dyuers so are the giftes also wherby those functions are executed likewyse dyuers And therefore there may be some men for their wisedome and grauitie discretion and faythfulnesse and whatsoeuer other giftes are required in hym that shoulde doe thys office of prouyding for the poore and to be a good Deacon which notwithstanding for some impediment in hys tongue or for want of vtterance shall neuer be able as long as he lyueth to be a good mynister of the word and therefore the giftes being dyuers wherewith those offices must be executed although it is neyther vnlawfull nor vnmeete to make of a Deacon a mynister if he haue giftes for that purpose yet I deny that S. Paule appoynteth that the Deaconship shoulde be as it were the seede or frie of the mynisters or that he meaneth by those words that the Deaconship is a steppe to the pastorshyp Which may yet also further appeare by the phrase of speach which the Apostle vseth For he doth not say that they that do the office of Deaconship well shall come to or get a good standing but he sayth that in so doing they doe gette themselues a good standing that is they get themselues authoritie estimation in the church whereby they may be both the bolder to doe their office and whereby they may doe it with more frute Whereas when they liue naughtely they neyther dare doe oftentimes that which they should doe nor yet that which they doe well taketh so good effect because of the discredite which commeth by their euill behauiour And so I conclude that M. Doctor hath brought hetherto nothing to proue why either Deacōs ought or else haue wont eyther to preach or to mynister the sacramentes And albeit M. Doctor be not able to shew it yet I confes that it hath bene in tymes past permitted vnto them in some churches to baptise in other some to preach and baptise and sometymes also to mynister the supper but I say also that thys was a corruption and vsed at those tymes when there were many other grose vntollerable abuses from the which I doe appeale vnto that which was first that is the institution of the Apostles which lymitted and bounded euery function within hys seuerall limites and borders which it ought not to passe Vnto the three next sections contayned in the. 94. 95. and a peece of the. 96. pages touching that which is called the introite and fragments of the Epistles and Gospels and the rehersall of the Nicene Crede I haue declared before the causes of our mislyking neyther meane I to stand to refute the slaunderous surmises which M. D. rayseth of the authors of the Admonition wherby he would bring thē into the suspitiō of Arrianisme to whom all those that feare God beare witnes y they are most far from He him selfe notwithstanding once again in the last of these three sections 96. page doth lay the manyfest foundations of that part of Anabaptisme which standeth in hauing al things common saying directly agaynst S. Peter that in the tyme of the Apostles Christians had proprietie in nothing And further geuing great cause of triumph of the one syde to the Catabaptistes and such as deny the baptisme of yong infants in matching that with those things which the church may although not without incommoditie yet without impietie be without and of the other syde vnto the papistes whilest he sayth that we reade not of any women which receiued the Lords supper in the Apostles tyme For thys is that they alledge to proue theyr vnwritten verityes when as
is mentioned of one Theodotus who is sayd to haue seperated or excommunicated Apollinaris but it doth not appeare there that he alone of hys owne authority dyd excommunicate hym And there be great reasons in that Chapter to proue that he dyd it not of hys owne authority for immediatly after his heresy was knowne Damasus bishop of Rome and Peter bishop of Alexandria caused a sinode to be gathered at Rome where hys heresy was condemned Now for so much as the custome of synodes and councels is when they condenme the heresyes to excommunicate the heretickes it is to be thoughte that that councell dyd excommunicate hym and that Theodotus byshop of Laodicea dyd execute that decree and excommunication And in deede Sozomene doth so expound hym selfe when immediatly after he had sayde that he dyd excommunicate him he addeth acoinonetoh auton apophainei whych is that he declared him excommunicate whych in deede properly belongeth to the minister when the excommunication is decreed by those to whoÌ„ it appertaineth Whych thing may yet better appeare by the manner of speache whych is vsed in an other place where speaking of â—ictor excommunycating Theodotus he vttereth it by thys apekeryxe whych is to promulgate or pronounce the sentence whych was decreed by others As for Amb. although he be greatly commended for excommunicating the Emperor yet he was neuer commended for that he did excommunicate him himselfe alone and if he dyd excommunicate him himselfe alone yet hys fault was the les for so much as he being desirous of an eldershyp could not as it semeth by hys complaint which I haue spoken of before â—â—â—aine one And although the storyes doe not make mention y there were others whose authority came into thys excommunication yet it followeth not y there were no other And how often wil you stomble at that which you do so sharply reproue in others whych is in making of arguments of authority negatiuely And if you will not grauÌ„t thys manner of reasonyng in the scripture in matters pertaining to the gouernment of the church whych are all comprehended in the scripture how would you reason of a common story whych neither can nor dothe professe to speake all those things whych fall into that matter whych it wryteth of But what if so be it be proued that Ambrose did not this of hys owne authoritye but by the authoritye also of others will you then confesse that he is commended of all those whych wryte stories for so doing and confesse that the vse and practise of the primitiue church was far from thys that is nowe For proufe whereof I will geue you a place whych Ambrose the best wytnes of thys matter hath in one of his epistles wher he sheweth that assone as the murther whych Theodosius had caused to be done at the citye of Thessalonica was heard by and by the byshops of Fraunce came and there was holden a Synode where also Ambrose sayeth that hys communicating wyth Theodosius coulde not absolue hym for that as it myght appeare the byshops in that synode had in excommunicating hym ordained that he should not be absolued vntill suche tyme as he had done repentance whych he did afterward with confessyon of his faulte before the congregation and asking forgeuenes of it So it appeareth that that whych he did he did it by the sentence of the synode and not of hys owne authority alone In the. 220. 221. pages he speaketh of thys thing a fresh but hath no newe matter but maketh a bare rehersall of the places of the admonition asking after hys accustomed manner of confuting what maketh thys or what proueth that only wheras he sayd before and proued as he thought that the minister had only to do wyth excommunication being pressed there by the admonition either to defend or renounce hys Chauncellors c. he had rather deny bothe the truth and himselfe then he wold haue any of that horrible confusion and prophanation of the holy discipline of God brought in by popery threatnyng the ouerthrow of the whole church seruing for nothing but for the nourishing of the ambition and idlenes of a fewe driuen out of the church Of the whych I will vpon occasion speake a word if first I shewe that the vse of the auncyent church hath bene not to permit the excommunication to one but that the sentence therof should come from the gouernors and elders of the church vnto whome that dyd especially appertaine Although I can not passe by that which M. doctor sayth that for so much as the authors of the Admonition had alledged the words tell the church to proue the interest of the church in excommunication that therefore they could not vse the same to proue the interest of the pastor as who should saye that the pastor is not one of the church But of the absurdity of this I haue spoken sufficiently before and how all men do see the vanity of thys reason that because that people haue an interest by thys place therfore the pastor hath none But I come to shew the vse of the primitiue church in thys matter wherof we haue a manifest testimony in Tertullian If sayth he there be any whych hath committed suche a faulte that he is to be put away from the partakyng of the prayer of the church and from all holy matters or affaires there do beare rule or be presidents certaine of the most approued auncients or elders whych haue obtayned thys honor not by mony but by good report And that the auncients had the ordering of these things and the peoples consent was required and that if the case were a very difficult case it was referred vnto the synodes or councels and that the ministers dyd not take vpon them of their owne authority to excommunicate and that those whych dyd receiue the excommunicate wythout the knowledge consent of the churche were reprehended it may appeare almost in euery page of Cyprians Epistles and namely in these whych I haue noted in the margent In Augustines tyme it appeareth also that the consent of the church was required for in the third boke agaynst the epistle of Parmenian he sheweth that if the multitude of the church be not in that fault for which one is to be excommunicated that then it helpeth much to make the party both afrayde and ashamed that he be excommunicated or anathematised as he calleth it by all the churche and in hys bookes de Baptis contra Donatistas in diuers places he is so far from permitting the excommunication to one man that he semeth to fal into the other extremity whych is to make the estate of the church to populare and the people to haue too great a sway For there he sheweth that if the most of the people be infected wyth the fault whych is to be punyshed by excommunication that then no excommunication ought to be attempted for because a sufficient numbre of voyces will not be obtained
that they had also some care to prouide for the poore and that they were such as dyd mynister the sacramentes And in an other Councell they haue authoritie geuen them to make subdeacons exorcists and readers I know thys was a corruption of the mynistery but yet all men see how Maister Doctor looketh as it were a farre of vpon things and therefore taketh a man for a molehill when he would make vs beleeue that these were chauncelors c. In the. 125. page to the admonition desyring that these may be remoued and the eldershyp establyshed according to Gods order M. Doctor aunswereth that that were to place in stede of wise and discrete men vnlearned ignorant and vnapt to rule Let Maister Doctor take heede least in alowing so well of the popishe ceremonies not only as tollerable but as fitte and then acquainting hym selfe with the papistes maner of speaking in saying that the people be ignoraunt and vnlearned he fal or ouer he be aware into some worse thing Moses in Deuteronomie and Salomon in hys prouerbes place the principall wisedome in keeking Gods commaundementes and in fearing god And Dauid sayeth that the secretes and the priuy councell of the Lord is knowen to those which feare hym and I haue shewed out of S. Paule that he geueth to the spirituall man great discretion and iudgement of things If therefore there be in euery church which feare God and keepe hys commaundementes there are both wise and learned discrete men and therefore not to be spoken of so contemptuously as M. Doctor speaketh And God be praysed there are numbers in the church that are hable to be teachers vnto most of the chauncelors in any matter perteyning to the church and are hable to geue a ryper iudgement in any ecclesiastical matter then the most part of them can And besides that the choysest are to be taken to thys office thys ought not to be forgotten that seeing good successe of thinges depend vppon the blessing of God and that blessing followeth the church when the Lordes order is kept simple men which carry no great countenaunce or shew will vndoubtedly doe more good vnto the church hauing a lawfull calling then those of great port whiche haue no such calling In the. 228. page he thinketh the Archbyshoppes Courte necessary but bringeth no reason and further confesseth hym selfe ignoraunt of the estate of it and therefore I know not from whence that good opynion of hys shoulde come onlesse it be from thence that he lyketh of all things be they neuer so euill whych the admonition missyketh The rest which M. D. hath of thys matter is nothing else but great and high wordes And as for the Canon law it is knowen what a stroke it beareth with vs and that a few cases excepted it remayneth in her former effect To the sections beginning in the. 118. page and holding on vntill the. 123. page It was before shewed that of the gouernoures of the church there were some whose charge pertayned vnto the whole church of the which we haue spoken some other whose charges extend but to a part of the church that is vnto the poore and these are the deacons And as in the former part I shewed there were two kindes so in this latter part the same is to be noted that of those whose charge was ouer the poore some had charge ouer all the poore of the church as those which are called deacons some had charge ouer the poore straungers and those poore which were sicke only and those S. Paule calleth in one place Dyaconisses and in an other place widdowes For the deacons dyd distribute vnto the necessyties as well of the poore straungers and the sicke poore as vnto the other poore of the church And the widdowes did employ their laboures to the washing of the feete of the straungers and attending vppon the poore which were sicke and had no frendes to keepe them First I will speake of the deacons whereas M. Doctor cryeth out of daiying with the scriptures for alledging the. 8. verse of the twelfth vnto the Romaines to proue deacons affirming that there is no worde of them Truely I can fynde no wordes to set forth thys so grosse ignorance And had it not bene enough for M. Doctor to haue vttered thys ignorance but he must also with an outery proclayme it and as it were spred the banner of it What doe these wordes note he that distributeth in simplicitie but the office of the deaconshyp For in that place S. Paule reckeneth vp all the ordinary and perpetuall offices of the church as the office of the doctor of the pastor of the deacon of the elder and leaueth not out so muche as the widdow which he comprehendeth in these wordes shewing mercy If the authors of the Admonition doe daily with the scriptures in thys place surely Maister Caluin M Beza M. Bucer Peter Martyr c. doe dally with them And shall all these be esteemed to play with the scriptures and M. Doctor only to handle them seriously And as M. Doctors ignorance appeareth in thys place so hys mynde not desirous of the truth but secking to cauill doth as manifestly shew it selfe For all men see that the admonition alledgeth not the place to the Tessalonians to proue the office of deacons but to shew that idle vagavondes might not haue any of that reliefe which belongeth vnto those which bee poore in deede which thing appeareth both by the placing of the quotation ouer agaynst that allegation by the letter which directeth therunto And whereas M. Doctor sayth that the office of the deacons is not only to prouide for the poore but also to preach and mynister the sacramentes I haue shewed before that it doth not appertayne vnto them to doe eyther the one or the other For the proofe whereof thys place of the Romaines quoted by the admonition is very fit most proper For S. Paule speaketh there agaynst those which not contenting themselues with their owne vocatiōs dyd breake into that which appertayned vnto others as if the hand should take vpon it the office of the eye or of some other member of the body therfore S. Paule doth as it were bound point the limites of euery office in the church so placeth the deacons office only in the preuysion for the poore Thys one thing I will adde to that matter that if the apostles whiche hadde suche excellent and passing gyftes dyd fynde them selues preaching of the woorde and attending to prayer not able to prouyde for the poore but thought it necessarye to dyscharge them selues of that offyce to the ende they myght doe the other effectually and fruitefully hee that shall doe both now must eyther doe none well and profitably or else hee must haue greater giftes then the Apostles had The seconde poynt is touching that there were deacons in euery churche which is well proued of the admonition both by the place of the
appoynted and to punish those which fayle in their office accordingly As for the making of the orders cerimonyes of the church they doe where there is a constituted and ordered church pertayne vnto the mynisters of the church and to the ecclesiastycall gouernoures and that as they meddle not with the making of cyuill lawes and lawes for the common wealth so the cyuill magistrate hath not to ordayne cerimonies pertayning to the churche But if those to whome that doth appertayne make any orders not meete the magistrate may and ought to hynder them and dryue them to better for so much as the ciuill magistrate hath thys charge to see that nothing be done agaynst the glory of God in hys domynion Thys distinction if M. Doctor knoweth not nor hath not heard of let him looke in the. 2. booke of the Chronicles he shall see that there were a number appoynted for the matters of the Lord which were priestes and leuites and there were other also appoynted for the Kinges affaires and for matters of the common wealth amongst which were the Leuites which being more in number then coulde be applyed to the vse of the churche were set ouer cyuill causes being therefore most fit for that they were best learned in the lawes of God which were the politicke lawes of that countrey There he may learne if it please hym that the making of orders and geuing of iudgementes in cyuill and Ecclesiasticall in common wealth and church matters pertayned vnto dyuers persons which distinction the wryter to the Hebrewes doth note when he sayeth that the Priest was ordayned in things pertayning to God. Thys might Maister Doctor haue learned by that whiche the noble emperor * Constantine attributeth to the fathers of the Nicene councell and to the Ecclesiasticall persons there gathered which he doth also permit the Byshops Elders and Deacans of churches to doe eyther by correcting or adding or making new if neede be And by the contynuall practise of the church in the tyme of christian Emperors which alwayes permitted vnto the mynisters assembled in councelles as well the determynation of controuersies which rose as the making or the abolyshing of needefull or hurtfull cerimonies as the case required Also by the Emperoures epistle in the first action of the councell of Constantinople where by the epistle of the Emperor it appeareth that it was the manner of the Emperoures to confirme the ordinaunces which were made by the mynisters and to see them kept The practise of thys he myght haue also most playnly seene in Ambrose who wold by no meanes suffer that the causes of the churches should be debated in the Princes consistory or court but would haue them handled in the church by those that had the gouernment of the church and therefore excuseth hym selfe to the emperour Valentinian for that being conuented to answere of the church matters vnto the ciuill court he came not And by whome can the matters and orders of the church bee better ordayned then by the mynisters of the church And if that be a good reason of Maister Doctor in the fortie and seuenth page that the Byshoppes ought therefore to ordayne mynisters because they are best hable to iudge of the learning and habylitie of those which are the fyttest it is also as good reason that therefore the mynisters and gouernours of the church should appoynt and decree of such ceremonyes and orders as pertayne to the church for because it is to be supposed that they can best iudge of those matters bestowing theyr studyes that wayes and further best vnderstanding the estate of the church about the which they are wholy occupyed And this is not Maister Doctor to shake handes with the papistes For the papistes would exempt their priestes from the subiection and from the punyshment of the cyuill magistrate which we doe not And the papistes would that whatsoeuer the cleargy doth determyne that that forthwith should be holden for good and the Prince should be forthwith compelled to mayntayne and set forth that bee it good or euill without further inquiry but wee say that if there bee no lawfull mynistery to set good orders as in rumous decayes and ouerthrowes of relygion that then the Prince ought to doe it and if when there is a lawfull mynistery it shall agree of any vnlawfull or vnmeete order that the Prince ought to stay that order and not to suffer it but to driue them to that which is lawfull and meete And if thys be to shake handes with the papistes then Maister Doctor is to blame which hath taught vs once or twise before that the appoynting of ceremonies of the church belongeth vnto the church And yet I know that there is one or two of the later wryters that thinke otherwise but as I take no aduauntage of their authoritie which thinke as I doe so I ought not to be preiudiced by those that thinke otherwise But for so much as we haue M. Doctor yet of thys iudgement that the church ceremonies shoulde bee ordayned by the church I will trauaile no further in thys matter consydering that the practise of thys church commonly is to referre these matters vnto the ecclesiasticall persons only thys is the difference that where it is done now of one or a few wee desire that it may be done by others also who haue interest in that behalfe The other poynt is in the hundreth thirty and eyght page where hee most vntruely and slaunderously chargeth the authors of the Admonition and maketh wonderfull outcryes of them as though they should deny that there hadde beene any reformation at all sythens the tyme that the Queenes maiestye began to raigne manyfestly contrary not onely to theyr meaning but also to theyr very words which appeareth in that they moue to a thorough reformation to contende or to labour to perfection denying only that the reformation which hath bene made in her maiesties dayes is thorough and perfect We confesse willingly that next vnto the Lorde God euery one of vs is most deepely bounde vnto her maiesty whome he hath vsed as an excellent instrument to delyuer his church heere out of the spirituall Egipt of popery and the common wealth also and the whole lande out of the slauery and subiection of straungers whereunto it was so neare Thys I say we willingly confesse before men and do in our prayers dayly geue most humble thankes to God therefore And by thys humble sute and earnest desire whiche wee haue for further reformation we are so far from vnthankfulnes vnto her maiesty that we thereby desire the heape of her felicitie the establishment of her royal throne amongst vs which then shall be most sure and vnremoued when our sauiour Christ sytteth wholy and fully not only in hys chayre to teach but also in hys throne to rule not alone in the heartes of euery one by hys spirite but also generally and in the visible gouernment of hys church by
iudgement of M. Bucer And wheras M. doctor vpon that s. Peter willeth the husbands to geue honor to their wiues wold approue this manner of speach in matrimony wyth my body I thee worshyp he must vnderstaÌ„d that it is one thing wyth vs to worship and an other thing to honor For we honor men whych we do not worshyp and besides that S. Peter speaketh of the honor of the mynde wherby the husband shuld be moued to beare wyth the infirmities of his wife therfore it is vnfitly alleaged to proue that he may worship her with his body As for the receiuing of the Communion when they be marryed that it is not to be suffered onles there be a generall receiuing I haue before at large declared and as for the reason that is fathered of M. Bucer whych is that those that be Christians maye not be ioyned in maryage but in Christe It is verye slender and cold as if the sacrament of the supper were instituted to declare any such thyng or they could not declare their ioyning togither in Christ by no meanes but by receyuing the supper of the Lorde To the next section in the. 197. page TEll me M. doctor why there should be any such confirmation in the church being brought in by the fained Decretall Epistles of the Popes and no one tittle therof being once found in the scrypture and seeing that it hath bene so horribly abused and not necessary why ought it not to be vtterly abolyshed and thirdly thys confirmation hath very dangerous poynts in it The first steppe of popery in thys confirmation is the laying on of hands vpon the head of the childe wherby the opinion of it that it is a sacrament is confirmed especially when as the prayer dothe saye that it is done according to the example of the Apostles whych is a manifest vntruthe and taken in deede from the popish confirmation The seconde is for that the byshop as he is called must be the only minister of it wherby the popishe opinion whych esteemeth it aboue baptisme is confirmed For whilest baptisme may be ministred of the minister and not coÌ„firmation but only of the byshop there is great cause of suspition geuen to thinke that baptisme is not so precious a thing as confirmation seeing thys was one of the principall reasons wherby that wicked opinion was establyshed in popery I do not heere speake of the inconuenience that meÌ„ are constrained with charges to bryng their childreÌ„ oftentimes halfe a score miles for that which if it were nedeful might be as wel done at home in their owne parishes The thirde is for y â— â—â— the allegation of the seconde cause of the vsing of the confirmation the boke sayeth that by the imposition of hands and prayer the chyldren may receyue strengthe and defence agaynst all temptations whereas there is no promyse that by the laying on of hands vpon chyldren any suche gyfte shall be geuen and it maintayneth the popyshe distinction that the spirite of God is geuen at baptisme vnto the remissyon of synnes and in confirmation vnto strength the whych very worde strength the booke alledgeth and all thys M. Doctor confuteth by callyng of the authors of the admonition peeuish and arrogant To the next section contained in the. 198. 199. 200. 201. pages LEast M. Doctor as hys common fashyon is when the corruption of anye thyng is spoken agaynst say that we condemne buryall I would haue hym vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried and that it is mete that for that cause some reasonable numbre of those whych be the frends and neyghbors about should accompany the corps to the place of buryall We hold it also lawfull to lament the dead and if the dignity of the persone so require we thynke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall wherby that may appeare but yet so that there be a measure kepte bothe in the weepyng and in the charges consydering that whereas immoderate eyther weepyng or pompe was neuer no not in the tyme of the lawe allowed nowe in the time of the gospell all that is not lawfull whych was permitted in the time of the law For vnto the people of God vnder the law weeping was by so much more permitted vnto them then vnto vs by howe muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and plaine syght of the resurrection as we haue whych was y cause also why it was lawfull for them to vse more cost in the embaulmyng of the dead therby to nouryshe and to helpe their hope touchyng the resurrection wherof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauyor Christ then they had Nowe for the thyngs whych the admonition findeth fault wyth and thereof bryngeth reason M. Doctor of hys bare credite wythout any reason or scrypture or any thyng els commendeth them vnto vs sayeth they be good And thys you shall marke to be M. doctors symple shyft throughoute hys booke that when he hath no coloure of scripture nor of reason no name nor title of doctor theÌ„ to make vp some thyng he varyeth hys affirmation by all the figures he can as in saying simplye that it is so and then in askyng whether it be not so and after in askyng whether there is any other man will thynke that it is not so as if the woulde make vs beleeue that he setteth vs dyuers kindes of meates because he bryngeth the same in dyuers dyshes For besydes these reasons he hathe no reason eyther to proue that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead or that the minister should be drawne to thys charge Surely if the order be so good and conuenient it hath met with a very barren patron whych can say nothing for it And although there be enough sayd by the admonition yet because thys bold and hardy speache is enough to lead the simpler away to make them thinke that M. doctor hathe a good cause therfore I wil also say somthyng of these rites of buryal And first of all as thys almost is a generall fault in them all that they maintayne in the mindes of the ignorant the opinion of praying for the dead so is thys also a nother general fault that these ceremonyes are taken vp without any example either of the churches vnder the law or of the purest churches vnder the gospel that is of the churches in the apostles times For when the scripture descrybeth the ceremonies or rites of buryall amongste the people of God so dilygently that it maketh mention of the smallest thyngs there is no doubte but the holy Ghoste doth therby shew vs a paterne wherevnto we should also frame oure buryalles And therfore for so much as neyther the church vnder the law nor vnder the gospell when it was in the greatest puritye dyd euer vse any prescript forme of seruice in the buryall of theyr dead it coulde not be but daungerous
to take vp any such custome in the tyme of the lawe it was not only not vsed but vtterly forbidden For when the law did forbyd that the priest should not be at the buryall which ought to say or conceiue the prayers there it is cleare y the Iewes might not haue any such prescript form And yet they had most nede of it for the causes of obscure knowledge weaker fayth before alledged Againe by thys meanes a newe charge is layd vpon the minister and a taking hym away from his necessary dueties of feeding and gouerning the flocke whych being so great as a maruellous diligence will scarcely ouercome oughte not to be made greater by thys being a thyng so vnnecessary The Admonition dothe not say that the Prayers whych are sayd are for the dead but that they maintaine an opinion of prayer for the deade in the heartes of the simple and that they declare manifestly enoughe when they say that it may be partly gathered c. For the mournyng apparell the admonition sayeth not simply it is euill because it is done of custome but proueth that it is hypocritical oftētimes for that it proceedeth not from any sadnes of minde whych it dothe pretende but worne only of custome there being vnder a mourning gowne of tentimes a mery heart And considering that where there is sorow in deede for the dead there it is very hard for a man to kepe a measure that he do not lament too much We ought not to vse those meanes whereby we myght be further prouoked to sorow and so go a great way beyonde the measure whych the apostle apoynteth in mournyng no more then it was well done of the Iewes in the gospell to prouoke weping sorowe for their deade by some dolfull noise or sounde of instrument or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister to goe to her brothers graue thereby to set the print of her sorow deper in her minde Seing therefore if there be no sorowe it is hypocritical to pretend it and if there be it is very dangerous to prouoke it or to cary the notes of remēbrance of it it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparel were much better layed away then kept And here M. doctor threps a litle kindnes of the authors of the admonition sayth that they know it is very ancient whom before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of antiquity In dede it is very ancient but M. doctor is afraid to shew the ancienty of it for Cyp. and Aug. inueigh vehemently agaynst it condemnyng it as vnlawfull and vndecent Nowe touching the funerall sermons M. doctor taketh on tryumpheth maruellously as though he had already gotten the victorye but he that girdeth hys harnes should not boast as he that putteth it of There is more matter then peraduenture M. doctor is aware of that whych is set downe he answeareth not as that it norysheth an opinion that the dead are the better for it whych doth appeare in the there are none more desirous of funerall sermons then the papists whych although they can not abide the doctrine whych is preached yet they wil haue suche sermons and those whych will very seldome or not at all be at other sermons will not commonly misse one of these Furthermore for so much as the minyster is driuen oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpon a sodaine the word of God therby is negligently handled especially of those whose gyftes are not so great as that they can prouide in so small time and by thys neglygent handlyng of the word of God it is brought into contempt Moreouer consydering that these funerall sermons are at the request of rych men and those whych are in authoritye and are very seldome at the buryall of the pore there is brought into the church contrary to the word of God an acceptation of persons which ought not to be For although the minister may giue to one more honor then to an other accordyng as the callyng or degree requireth yet in hys mynistery that whych pertaineth vnto hys office he ought to shew hymselfe indifferent and therfore preach as wel at the death of the pore as of the rych and because he can not well do both it is most conuenient to leaue both If so be that M. doctor wyl say that it is good that notable and famous men shuld haue their commendation to the ende that bothe the goodnes of God towardes them myght be the better knowne and others the soner drawne to followe theyr example I graunt it is so and the scrypture dothe bothe approue it and sheweth what meane is best to doe that by For so we read that Ieremy the prophet commended that godly and zealous prince Iosias in wryting verses of hys deathe He could haue as easely preached but thys he thought the best way So did also Dauid wryte verses at the death of Saul and Ionathan and Abner in whych he commendeth their gyfts and graces whych the Lord had bestowed vpon thē There were in deede of ancient time funerall orations as appeareth in Gregory Nazianzen but they sauoured of the manner of Athens where he was brought vp where also thys custome of funerall orations was vsed as may be seene in the second boke of Thucydydes story by an oration of Pericles And althoughe thys custome was not in Nazianzeus time so corrupt as afterwardes yet the departing from the examples of the purer churches gaue occasion of further corruption whych ensued And to say the truth it was better vsed amongst the Athenians then amongst the christians For there it was merely ciuill and the oration at the death of some notable personage made not by a minister but by an Orator appoynted therfore whych I thinke may well be done And if M. doctor will say that there myght be sermones although they be not mentioned neyther in the old testament nor in the new I haue answered before that seeing the holy ghost doth describe so dilygently the least circumstances of burial he would not haue omitted that being the greatest And let it be obserued that thys deuise of mannes braine bryngeth forth the same frute that other do the is dryueth quite away a necessary duety of the minister whych is to comfort wyth the worde of God the parties whych be greued at the death of their frends that consideryng the sore is perticular he apply vnto it a perticular plaister whych is very seldome or neuer done and yet a necessary duety as of a good christian so especially of the minister whych can best do it and to whome it most appertaineth And whereas M. doctor asketh when there is a better time to speake of death and of mortality then at buryall surely if it had ben so fit the Prophets and apostles would neuer haue lost that oportunity or let pas that occasion of aduancing and making effectuall their preaching What if it be answered that for as muche
as oure lyfe is a continuall meditation of death it is not salfe to vse thys custome for that it tyeth our cogitation to so short a tyme as the tyme of buryall is which ought to be extended to the whole course of our lyfe But I answere that it may be well done wythout any such funerall sermons when the minister taketh occasion of the death of any whych is lately departed to speake of the vanity of the life of man Whether M. doctor lyketh the reformation or no so it is in the church where M. Caluin was pastor hath ben for these many yeres And although the Englishe church in Geneua had that in the boke of common prayer yet as I haue heard of those whych were there present it was not so vsed And if it had bene yet therby it is not proued that M. Caluin allowed of it For wyth thyngs wherin ther was no great and manifest disorder M. Caluin dyd beare that whych he lyked not of And there being no papists in all the city and al being wel instructed there was no such danger in a funerall sermon there as is here amongst vs where there is many papists and mo ignorant I will say nothyng of the great abuse of those whych hauing otherwyse to lyue on of the church take nobles for euery such sermon and sometime a mourning gowne whych causeth the papistes to open their mouthes wide and to say that the marchandise of sermons is much dearer then of the masse for that they might haue for a grote or six pence and the sermon they cannot haue vnder a roūder sum That must be remembred whych I had almost forgotten howe vntruely and slaunderously M. doctor sayth that the authors of the admonition do compare the sermon wyth a trentall or a masse For whē I say in stead of the masse we haue the holy Communion doe I compare or lyken the communion to the masse and yet this is M. doctors charitable collection which gathereth thyngs whych no man letteth fall Touching the place of buryall I haue spoken before And although it be not to be mislyked that there should be a cōmon place to bury in yet the places whych M. doctor poynteth vs vnto proue the cleane contrary For by the story of Abrahams place of buryall it appeareth that the manner was that euery one was buryed in hys owne seuerall groūd as may appeare also by that that the euangelist sayth that there was a field bought to bury the strangers in whych had no place of their owne whych was also vsed sometimes in the churches vnder the gospell as appeareth by the story of Theodoret whych I haue before recited in the later end of a funeral oratien which Gregory Nazianzene made of the death of hys brother Cesarius And so by this reason M. doctor wold haue euery one buryed in hys owne possession To the next section I haue answeared before where I haue entreated of churchyng women and of prayer it foloweth to speake vnto that in the. 205. and. 206. pa. TO pas by the prophane prouerbe here vsed which matcheth mad men women children togither most vnsemely for a D. of diuinity especially handling diuine matters for the singing of psalmes by course and side after side although it be very auncient yet it is not commēdable and so much the more to be suspected for that the deuil hath gone about to get it so great authority partly by deriuing it from Ignatius time and partly in making the world beleue that thys came from heauen and that the angels were heard to sing after thys sorte whych as it is a mere fable so is it confuted by hystoriographers whereof some ascribe the begynning of thys to Damasus some other vnto Flauianus Diodorus Frō whēce so euer it came it can not be good considering that when it is graūted y all the people may praise God as it is in singing of psalmes there this ought not to be restrained vnto a few wher it is lawful both with hart and voyce to sing the whole psalme there it is not mete that they should sing but the one halfe wyth their heart and voice and the other with their heart only For where they may both wyth heart and voice sing there the heart is not enough Therfore besides the incommodity whych commeth thys way in that being tossed after thys sort men can not vnderstande what is song these other two inconueniences come of thys forme of singing and therfore is banyshed in all reformed churches Vnto two very good reasons whych the admonition vseth to shewe the inconnenience of making curtesy and stāding at the name of Iesus and at the gospell rather then at other names of God and the rest of the scripture wherof the one is that it is against decencye and good order whych is broken by scraping of the feete and the other y it may brede a dangerous opinion of the inequality either of the sonne of God with the other persons or of the gospels with other scriptures M. doctor sayth y it is an indifferent thyng and neyther taketh away their reasons nor setteth down any of hys own thys is a slēder defence And it is no malicious dealing to note those faults whych are so generall so open yet notwithstanding vncorrected or vnreformed by those by whom M. d. wold make vs beleue that the church is best gouerned But I pray you tel me why do you cōdemn the seruing of two cures the alow the hauing of two benefices If it be no fault to haue two benefices how is it one to haue two cures for the curate is better able to read hys seruice in .ij. places thē the pastor to discharge his office in .ij. churches As for the speche of the cathedral churches either it is nothing or els it is fals For if he say y ther is either in al those cathedral churches one or in euery of those 12. churches one which is able to cōfute papists c. what great thing saith he which sayeth no more of all these churches then is to be found in one poore house of the vniuersity whose rents are skarce three hundred pound by yeare yea what hath he sayd of them whych was not to be founde in them euen in Queenes Maryes tyme when there was yet some one almoste in euerye Churche whych for feare dissemblyng was able notwythstanding to confute the Papistes Anabaptistes Puritanes And if he meane that in those .xij. houses the worst of the Prebendaries are hable to defend the truth agaynst all Papists c. all men do know the vntruthe of it so that althoughe thys sentence be very doubtfully put forthe yet how so euer it be taken it is as M. Doctor hath ryghtly termed it a mere brag And yet I doubt not and am well assured that there be diuers godly learned men whych haue lyuings in those places but for all that they cease not therefore
reason can not stand wyth M. Doctors interpretation so doth it wel agree with the translation of the Geneua Bible For what could be more fitly sayd to driue the disciples from thys vain repetition then to say that the heauenly father knoweth c. and that it is not wyth the Lord as it is wyth men that muste haue a thyng oftentimes spoken or euer they can vnderstand it Furthermore what a reason is thys VVe must repeat the Lordes prayer oftentimes therfore we must repeate it oftentimes in halfe an houre and one in the necke of an other And if s Paules place to the Thessalonians pray continually be referred vnto the saying of the Lordes prayer as M. doctor would beare vs in hande then it is not lawfull for vs to vse any other words then those whych our sauyor Christ vsed But I could neuer yet learne that those wordes binde vs of necessity any more vnto the repetition of the Lordes prayer word for word then vnto the repetition of any other godly prayer in the scripture And I would be lothe to saye that it were simply necessary to vse that iust nombre of wordes and neyther more nor les at any time much les oftentimes in so small a space For our sauyor Christe doth not there geue a prescript forme of prayer whervnto he bindeth vs but geueth vs a rule and squire to frame all our prayers by as I haue before declared I knowe it is necessary to pray and to pray often I knowe also that in so fewe words it is impossible for any man to frame so pithy a prayer And I confes that the churche doth well in concluding theyr prayers wyth the Lordes prayer but I stande vpon thys that there is no necessitye layde vpon vs to vse these verye wordes and no more and especially that the place of S. Paule to the Thessalonians dothe least of all proue it As for M. Doctors outcryes he hathe so often worn our eares wyth them and that wythout cause that I thinke by this time no man regardeth them A short Replie vnto M. Doctors briefe answere whych he maketh to certaine godly Admonitions and Exhortations whych he calleth pamphletes VVHere the sayeth the authors of the admonition are not punyshed or theyr boke misliked for that it telleth of the faults in the church or of the synnes of men but for that it maintaineth false doctrine and for that they preferred a libell For the doctrine it appeareth by that whych is sayd what it is And if he wold define what a libell were it were easy to answere vnto the other poynt If he meane because it was preferred wythout any name vnto it howe will he answer vnto the example of the wryter of the Epistle vnto the Hebrues which was a singuler instrument and did not subscribe hys Epistle wherein notwithstanding he sharply rebuketh diuers faultes amongst them And yet the wryter to the Hebrues was not the minister of Sathan And if he call it a libel because it vseth some sharper speaches surely all men see that hys boke deserueth then to be called a Satyre hauing for tarte wordes bitter and for one twentie But in what respecte so euer he call it a libell he accuseth not so much the authors of the admonition for preferring of it as diuers of the honourable house of Parliament whych dyd alowe it Where as maister Doctor compareth vs wyth the Phariseis and sayeth we doe all to be seene of men and that we hold downe our heades in the streates and straine at a gnatte swalowing downe a Camell because they are in all mennes knowledge I will leaue it to them to iudge of the truthe of those thyngs Where he sayeth we seldome or neuer laughe it is not therefore that we thincke that it is not lawfull to laughe but that the considerations of the calamities of other churches and of the ruines of oures wyth the heauy iudgements of the Lord whych hang ouer vs ought to turne oure laughing into weeping besides that a man may laugh although he shew not his tethe And so Ierome in effecte answeareth in an epistle whych he wrote where vpon occasion that certaine vsed the same accusation that M. doctor doeth he sayeth because we do not laugh wyth open mouth therfore we are counted sad And where he sayeth we separate oure selues from all congregations and are enemies to Prince and that we wold seeme to be holyer then other these and such lyke slaunders are answeared before And if there be any that refuse to salute godly preachers or spitte in any mannes face or wishe the plague of God to lyght vpon them or say that they be damned we defende not nor allowe of anye suche behauyor And it is vnreasonable that the fault of one should be imputed to so many and to those whych do as much mislyke of it as M. doctor hymselfe And what needed M. Doctor to byd the authors of these exhortations to holde their handes where doe they in a word offer to strike belike hys tonge is hys owne and therfore he speaketh whatsoeuer he lysteth After M. Doctor confuteth hys owne shadowe For the exhortation doth not require that the name of a brother shuld deliuer the authors of the admonition from punishment if they deserued it but desireth that it myghte worke some moderation of the rigoure of it and compassion to minister to their necessities in prison He sayeth that the authors of the Admonition take not them for theyr brethren yes verely although vnbrotherly handled for fathers to and so both loue them and reuerence them vntil whych we hope wil not be they shall manifestly for the vpholding of their owne kingdome and profite refuse to haue Christe raigne ouer vs in whome thys fatherhoods and brotherhoode doth consiste I knowe not whether they haue bene conferred wyth or no but I thynke the first reason whych they had to perswade them was that they shoulde goe to Newgate whych is that which the Exhortation complaineth of after that they are first punished before they be taught And in thys behalfe M. doctor hath no cause to complaine as he doth For if he list he may learn or euer he go to prison And as for the truth of the cause and wresting and mangling of the scriptures in most places where they are sayd to mangle and wrest and how he hath answered the request of the exhortation whych is to confute the admonition by the scriptures how truely aptly learnedly M. doctor hath behaued himself in citing of the olde Councels Fathers I leaue it to be estemed partly of that which I haue sayd and partly by the deeper consideration of those which because they can better iudge may see further into M. Doctors faultes and rapsodies then I can Although the truth is that I haue because I woulde not make a long booke by heaping of one reprehension vpon an other contented my selfe rather to trip as it were and to passe ouer with
a light foote the Heades and Summes of things then to number the faultes which are almost as many as there are sentences in thys booke more I am sure then there are pages ACcording to my promise made in my boke I haue here set down the iudgement of the later wryters concerning these matters in controuersy betwene vs Wherein because I loue not to translate out of other mens workes whereby I might make myne to grow I haue kept thys moderation that I neither sette down all the wryters nor all their places that I could nor yet of euery singuler matter but the chefest wryters and other of the cheefest poyntes or else of those wherein they are alleadged agaynst vs by M. Doctor and one only place of eche as farre as I could iudge and choose out most direct to that wherefore I haue alleaged it For otherwyse if I would haue spoken of all the poyntes and of the iudgement of all the wryters and gathered all the places that I could they woulde haue bene sufficient matter of an other booke as bigge or rather bigger then thys I must also admonish the Reader that I haue for borne in certeine of these Titles to set downe the iudgements of M. Beza M. Bullinger and M. Gualter because they are comprehended in the Confessyon of the Churches And thus partly vpon those sentences which I haue alleaged in thys booke and partely vpon these Testimonies heere set downe I leaue to the consyderation of all men how truely and iustly it is sayde that the learned wryters of these tymes one or two onely excepted are agaynst vs. 1 That there ought now to be the same regiment of the Church which was in the Apostles tyme. THe confession of the Heluetian Tygurin Berne Geneua Polonia Hungary and Scotland with others in the. 18. chapter speaking of the equality of the ministers sayth that no man may iustly forbyd to returne to the old constitution of the church of God and to receiue it before the custome of man. M. Caluin in hys Institututions 4. booke 3. chapter and 8. section speaking of the auncientes which dyd assist the pastor in euery church sayth that experiēce teacheth that that order was not for one age that thys office of gouernment is necessary to all ages And in the. 12. chapter and first section of the same booke sayth as much of Excommunication and other Ecclesiasticall censures Peter Martyr vpon the third to the Rom. teacheth that although the common wealth chaunge her gouernment yet the church alwayes kepeth hers still Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ 15. chapter lamenteth that there were founde amongst those which are counted of the forwardest christians which woulde not haue the same disciplyne vsed now that was in the times of the Apostles obiecting the differences of tymes and of men 2. That one mynister ought not to haue any dominion ouer an other The foresayde Heluetian Confession c. in the seuententh Chapter sayeth that Christ dyd most seuerely prohibite vnto hys Apostles their successors primacy domynion in the 18. Chap. sayth that equall power function in geuen vnto all the mynisters of the church that from the beginning no one preferred him selfe to a nother sauing only the for order some one dyd call thē together propounde the matters that were to be consulted of gathered the voyces c. Musculus in hys Common places in the chap. of the offices of the mynisters of the word sayth that in the Apostolike church the ministers of the word were none aboue an other nor subiect to any heade or president mislyketh the setting vp of any one in higher degree then an other And further he sayth vppon the second chap. of the second Epistle to the Thessalonians that the honor of a byshop being taken from the rest of the mynisters and geuen to one was the first step to the papacie how so euer in other places he speaketh otherwyse 3. That the election of mynisters pertayneth not to one man. The foresayd Heluetian Confession c. in the. 18. Chapter sayth that the mynisters ought to be chosen of the church or by those which are lawfully deputed of the church and afterward ordayned with publike prayers M. Caluin in hys 4. booke of Institutions 3. chap. 15. section sheweth that the Church dyd chuse and that the Apostles dyd monderate the election and confuteth them which vpon the places of Titus and Timothe would proue that the election belongeth to one man. 4. That there ought now to be elders to gouerne the church with the Pastors and Deacons to prouide for the poore Touching Elders the iudgement of M. Caluin hath bene before declared in the first of these propositions M. Beza in hys booke of diuorces page 161. sayeth that the Eldershyp of the church ought to be where there is a Christian magistrate Touching Deacons M. Caluin 4. boke 3. chap. 9. section after that hee had described what deacons the churches had in the Apostles tymes sayeth that we after their example ought to haue the lyke M. Beza in the. 5. cap. and. 23. section of hys confessions sheweth that the office of the distribution of the goodes of the church is an ordinary function in a church lawfully constituted which office in the. 30. he calleth the Deaconship P. Martyr vpon the. 12. to the Rom. speaking of the Elders which did asist the pastor in euery Church of the Deacons lamenteth that thys order is so fallen out of the church that the names of these functions do skarce remayne M. Bucer in hys first booke of the kingdome of Christ for the auncientes of the Church sayeth that the number of the Elders of euery church ought to be encreased according to the multitude of the people and in the. 14. chap. of the same booke sayeth that thys order of Deaconshyppe was relygiously kept in the church vntill it was driuen out by Antichrist 5. That excommunication pertayneth not to any one man in the Church M. Caluin in hys Institutions 4. booke and. 11. chap. and. 6. section teacheth that Excommunication pertayneth not to one man that it was too wicked a fact that one man taking the authoritie which was common to other to himselfe alone opened a way to tyranny tooke from the Church her right and abrogated the church Senate ordayned by the spirite of Christ And in the. 12. chap. and. 7. section hee sayeth further that it ought not to be done without the knowledge and approbation of the Church M. Beza in hys confessions 5. chap. 43. section sayeth that thys power of excommunicating is geuen to no one man except it please God to worke extraordinarily Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. to the Corinthes and. 5. chap. sayeth that it is very daungerous to permit so waighty a matter as excommunication to the discretion and will of any one man And therfore both that tyranny might be auoyded and thys censure executed with greater frute
Thys is certaine that breuitie whych you pretend was in small commendation with you whych make so often repetitions stuffe in diuers sentences of Doctors and wryters to proue things that no man denyeth translate whole leaues to so small purpose vpon so light occasions make so often digressions sometimes against the vnlernednes sometimes against the malice sometimes against the intemperancie of speach of the authors of the admonition and euery hand while pulling out the sworde vpon them and throughout the whole boke sporting your selfe wyth the quotations in the margent so that if all these where taken out of your boke as winde out of a bladder we should haue had it in a narow roume whych is thus swelled into such a volume and in stead of a boke of .ij. s. we should haue had a pamfiet of two pence And whereas you say that you haue not alleaged these learned fathers for the authors of the libell but for the wise discrete humble and learned to them also I leaue it to consider vpon that whych is alledged by me First howe lyke a diuine it is to seeke for rules in the Doctors to measure the making of ceremonies by whych you mighte haue had in the scriptures there at the riuers heere at the fountaine vncerten there whych heere are certen there in parte false which are heere altogither true then to howe little purpose they serue you and last of all howe they make against you An answer to the ende of the. 29. page beginning at the. 25. at But I trust M. Caluins iudgement VVHy should you trust that M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them if they be Anabaptists as you accuse them if they be Donatists if Catharists if conspired wyth the Papistes howe can you thinke that they will so easely rest in M. Caluins iudgement whych hated and confuted all Anabaptisme Donatisme Catharisme and Papisme But it is true whych the prouerbe sayth memorem c. he that will speake an vntruthe had neede haue a good memorye and thys is the force of the truthe in the conscience of man that although he suppres it and pretend the contrary yet at vnwares it stealeth out For what greater testimonye coulde you haue geuen of them that they hate all those heresies which you lay to their charge then to say that you trust M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh wyth them Now in dede that you be not deceiued we receiue M. Caluin and weigh of him as of the notablest instrumēt that the Lord hath stirred vp for the purging of his churches and of the restoring of the plaine and sincere interpretation of the scriptures whych hath bene since the Apostles times And yet we do not so read his works that we beleeue any thyng to be true because he sayeth it but so farre as we can esteme that that whych he sayth dothe agree wyth the canonicall scriptures But what gather you out of M. Caluin First that all necessary thyngs to saluation are contained in the scripture who denyeth it In the second collection where you would geue to vnderstande that ceremonies and externall discipline are not prescribed particularly by the worde of God and therfore left to the order of the church you must vnderstande that all externall discipline is not left to the order of the churche being particularly prescribed in the scriptures no more then all ceremonies are left to the order of the church as the sacraments of baptisme and the supper of the Lord wheras vpon the indefinite speaking of M. Caluin saying ceremonies and externall discipline wythout adding all or some you goe about subtelly to make men beleeue that M. Caluin had placed the whole external discipline in the power and arbitrement of the churche For if all externall discipline were arbitrarie and in the choise of the church Excommunication also whych is a part of it might be cast away which I thinke you will not say But if that M. Caluin were aliue to heare hys sentences racked and wrythen to establishe those thyngs whych he stroue so mightely to ouerthrow and to ouerthrow those things that he laboured so sore to establishe what might he say and the iniurie which is done to him is nothing les because he is deade Concerning all the rest of your collections I haue not lightly knowne a man which taketh so much paine with so small gaine and which soweth his sede in the sea wherof there wil neuer rise encrease For I know none that euer denied those things vnles peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue that al those be contentions which moue any controuersy of things which they iudge to be amis and thē it is answered before And now I answer further that they that moue to reformation of things are no more to be blamed as authors of contention then the Phisition which geueth a purgation is to be blamed for the rumbling and stirre in the belly and other disquietnes of the body which should not haue bene if the euil humors and naughty disposition of it had not caused or procured thys purgation Wheras you conclude that these contentions woulde be sone ended if M. Caluins wordes were noted heere we will ioyne with you and will not refuse the iudgement of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuersy with you Which I speake not therfore because I would call the decision of controuersies to men and their words which pertaine only to God and to his worde but because I know hys iudgement in these things to be cleane against you and especially for that you would beare men in hand that M. Caluin is on your side and against vs And as for Peter Martyr and Bucer and Musculus and Bullinger Gualter and Hemingius and the rest of the late wryters by citing of whom you wold geue to vnderstand that they are against vs in these matters there is set downe in the latter end of this boke their seuerall iudgements of the most of these things whych are in controuersy whereby it may appeare that if they haue spoken one word against vs they haue spoken two for vs And wheras they haue wrytten as it is sayde and alleaged in their priuate letters to their freendes againste some of these causes it may appeare that they haue in their workes published to the whole world that they confirme the same causes So y if they wrote any such thyngs they shall be founde not so much to haue dissented from vs as from them selues and therefore we appeale from them selues vnto them selues and from their priuate notes and letters to their publike wrytings as more autenticall You labor still in the fire that is vnprofitably to bring M. Bucer hys Epistle to proue that the church may order things wherof there is no particular and expressed commaundement for there is none denieth it neither is thys saying that all things are to be done in the churche according to the rule of the word of God any thing repugnant vnto