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prayer_n church_n form_n impose_v 2,118 5 9.7547 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A83501 Reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. Together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. Presented in all humility to the Honourable House of Commons, now assembled in Parliament. By Tho. Edvvards, minister of the Gospel. Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647.; England and Wales. Parliament. 1641 (1641) Wing E233; Thomason E167_16; ESTC R21753 47,020 78

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and_o expedient_a in_o sundry_a case_n and_o particular_n as_o that_o one_o church_n be_v require_v aught_o to_o give_v a_o account_n to_o other_o and_o to_o be_v content_a that_o matter_n of_o difference_n and_o importance_n shall_v be_v hear_v by_o other_o church_n as_o also_o to_o be_v advise_v and_o counsel_v by_o other_o church_n to_o have_v also_o doctrine_n that_o be_v questionable_a try_v and_o judge_v of_o by_o synod_n to_o be_v admonish_v and_o to_o be_v reprove_v also_o in_o case_n they_o deserve_v it_o and_o in_o case_n they_o will_v not_o amend_v and_o reform_v upon_o admonition_n and_o reproof_n of_o synod_n and_o assembly_n than_o they_o be_v to_o be_v complain_v of_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n that_o he_o may_v do_v his_o duty_n for_o this_o see_v christ_n on_o his_o throne_n vid._n pag._n 32._o examin._n of_o prelate_n petition_n zion_n prerog._n pag._n 63._o
they_o can_v grow_v up_o in_o grace_n and_o knowledge_n as_o become_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n there_o may_v be_v also_o all_o barbarousness_n and_o disorder_n for_o want_n of_o gift_n in_o government_n in_o these_o weak_a officer_n all_o which_o tend_v to_o the_o prejudice_n and_o hazard_v of_o the_o soul_n hence_o this_o be_v give_v as_o the_o great_a reason_n by_o divine_n of_o the_o examination_n of_o minister_n before_o ordination_n and_o that_o to_o be_v by_o learned_a and_o able_a man_n because_o as_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o profitable_a to_o the_o church_n then_o good_a pastor_n so_o nothing_o more_o pernicious_a than_o bad_a and_o unlearned_a minister_n second_o suppose_v they_o may_v choose_v well_o namely_o able_a man_n both_o for_o part_n and_o soundness_n 784._o in_o the_o faith_n and_o it_o be_v lawful_a also_o for_o the_o people_n to_o ordain_v yet_o it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o according_a to_o their_o principle_n of_o a_o church_n that_o these_o visible_a saint_n can_v ordain_v officer_n as_o have_v no_o gift_n of_o prayer_n for_o public_a especial_o not_o able_a to_o conceive_v prayer_n concerning_o the_o action_n in_o hand_n namely_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o minister_n neither_o have_v they_o any_o gift_n to_o make_v public_a exhortation_n and_o admonition_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o his_o duty_n nor_o be_v able_a to_o know_v what_o to_o say_v to_o he_o at_o the_o admission_n of_o he_o into_o his_o office_n what_o shall_v be_v do_v now_o shall_v the_o work_n be_v stay_v and_o the_o church_n want_v a_o minister_n till_o she_o be_v able_a to_o do_v these_o work_n and_o duty_n they_o may_v for_o aught_o can_v be_v say_v be_v long_o nay_o ever_o without_o minister_n and_o so_o without_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n which_o can_v but_o be_v very_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o salvation_n but_o to_o grant_v they_o that_o which_o need_v not_o be_v grant_v according_a to_o their_o principle_n that_o this_o church_n shall_v have_v some_o office_n as_o suppose_v a_o roll_a elder_n yet_o when_o a_o pastor_n be_v to_o be_v choose_v these_o elder_n who_o have_v a_o gift_n in_o government_n may_v not_o be_v able_a nor_o competent_a to_o try_v and_o examine_v the_o gift_n and_o part_n of_o a_o pastor_n nay_o yield_v they_o to_o have_v a_o pastor_n and_o the_o church_n will_v now_o choose_v a_o teacher_n one_o single_a pastor_n though_o able_a in_o his_o gift_n of_o exhortation_n and_o application_n may_v not_o be_v so_o able_a to_o try_v the_o gift_n requisite_a to_o a_o teacher_n who_o gift_n must_v be_v for_o exposition_n and_o controversy_n to_o preserve_v pure_a doctrine_n hence_o amesius_n speak_v of_o call_n of_o minister_n to_o a_o church_n say_v that_o here_o be_v need_n of_o direction_n and_o help_n 39_o of_o presbyter_n both_o of_o the_o same_o church_n and_o for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o neighbour_n church_n but_o if_o he_o be_v able_a to_o try_v and_o examine_v yet_o how_o shall_v this_o teacher_n be_v ordain_v there_o be_v but_o one_o minister_n if_o minister_n of_o neighbour_n church_n may_v not_o join_v also_o consider_v if_o they_o do_v not_o fall_v into_o that_o which_o they_o complain_v against_o in_o the_o episcopacy_n namely_o for_o one_o man_n to_o have_v the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n so_o that_o by_o all_o these_o particular_n you_o may_v see_v the_o assumption_n prove_v reason_n iii_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v think_v that_o christ_n will_v institute_v such_o a_o government_n of_o his_o church_n which_o afford_v no_o help_n nor_o allow_v no_o way_n or_o remedy_n no_o not_o for_o one_o time_n or_o prima_fw-la vice_fw-la for_o innocent_a person_n that_o be_v wrong_v but_o where_o be_v no_o place_n for_o appeal_n the_o party_n oppress_v must_v be_v the_o sole_a judge_n of_o the_o cause_n it_o be_v count_v a_o unequal_a unreasonable_a thing_n in_o government_n that_o party_n shall_v be_v judge_n at_o all_o much_o less_o the_o sole_a and_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o way_n for_o person_n oppress_v to_o be_v right_v but_o now_o in_o this_o independent_a church_n government_n there_o be_v no_o relief_n no_o not_o at_o first_o for_o injure_a person_n nor_o way_n of_o appeal_n to_o other_o who_o be_v not_o party_n to_o hear_v their_o cause_n and_o determine_v here_o only_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o no_o other_o may_v be_v admit_v as_o for_o instance_n in_o one_o of_o their_o congregation_n the_o great_a number_n of_o that_o church_n as_o it_o do_v and_o may_v oft_o fall_v out_o be_v against_o the_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n and_o some_o other_o member_n upon_o a_o difference_n in_o some_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o be_v the_o great_a number_n the_o elder_n also_o take_v part_n with_o they_o they_o proceed_v most_o unjust_o to_o censure_n of_o deprivation_n and_o excommunication_n now_o if_o all_o the_o power_n lie_v independent_o in_o this_o particular_a church_n so_o as_o there_o may_v be_v no_o other_o as_o synod_n to_o appeal_v unto_o to_o hear_v the_o cause_n and_o right_v they_o this_o minister_n and_o brethren_n thus_o censure_v must_v lie_v under_o these_o oppression_n without_o all_o remedy_n and_o be_v debar_v from_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n without_o help_n what_o remedy_n there_o be_v in_o such_o case_n as_o this_o we_o desire_v they_o to_o show_v we_o and_o that_o such_o case_n as_o this_o may_v not_o and_o do_v fall_v out_o can_v be_v deny_v now_o that_o christ_n shall_v institute_v such_o a_o government_n in_o his_o church_n where_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o any_o but_o party_n proper_o so_o term_v to_o be_v sole_a judge_n and_o where_o there_o be_v no_o possibility_n of_o redress_n for_o the_o innocent_a in_o case_n of_o injury_n which_o may_v and_o do_v ordinary_o fall_v out_o be_v not_o a_o thing_n to_o be_v imagine_v by_o reasonable_a man_n it_o be_v speak_v of_o by_o these_o man_n for_o a_o strange_a practice_n in_o the_o bishop_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n and_o give_v vote_n in_o it_o though_o yet_o there_o be_v beside_o they_o three_o time_n their_o number_n of_o voice_n in_o the_o house_n of_o lord_n how_o much_o more_o unreasonable_a may_v they_o judge_v it_o in_o their_o way_n of_o church_n government_n where_o party_n who_o be_v judge_n be_v great_a in_o number_n so_o that_o i_o may_v speak_v of_o the_o independency_n of_o their_o congregation_n as_o cameron_n speak_v of_o the_o popular_a government_n of_o their_o congregation_n *_o 21._o it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n who_o be_v both_o king_n of_o righteousness_n and_o king_n of_o peace_n will_v have_v government_n to_o be_v in_o this_o way_n which_o have_v no_o mean_n nor_o way_n for_o righteousness_n nor_o peace_n in_o his_o church_n beside_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n record_v in_o scripture_n for_o our_o example_n be_v against_o it_o and_o give_v we_o ground_n for_o appeal_v to_o other_o out_o of_o that_o church_n and_o not_o to_o have_v the_o party_n the_o judge_n act_n 15._o 1_o 2._o because_o the_o dissension_n and_o disputation_n be_v between_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o they_o of_o judaea_n who_o teach_v circumcision_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n think_v it_o not_o fit_a that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n shall_v determine_v and_o end_v it_o but_o send_v to_o other_o apostle_n and_o elder_n who_o be_v not_o party_n against_o they_o of_o judaea_n and_o they_o shall_v determine_v for_o they_o all_o else_o have_v not_o the_o dissension_n and_o disputation_n be_v between_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o certain_a of_o judaea_n and_o that_o in_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o antioch_n they_o be_v able_a to_o have_v determine_v it_o without_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n but_o the_o church_n judge_v it_o unequal_a that_o they_o who_o be_v the_o party_n in_o the_o controversy_n shall_v be_v the_o judge_n reason_n iv._o the_o light_n and_o law_n of_o nature_n with_o right_a reason_n be_v against_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a church_n dictate_v and_o lead_v we_o to_o dependency_n a_o subordination_n and_o a_o consociation_n in_o government_n in_o all_o society_n and_o body_n it_o be_v thus_o by_o the_o dictate_v of_o nature_n and_o it_o be_v find_v necessary_a among_o body_n natural_a and_o body_n politic_a that_o the_o several_a part_n and_o particular_a member_n do_v join_v in_o one_o for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o whole_a and_o that_o the_o whole_a being_n great_a than_o a_o part_n the_o several_a part_n shall_v be_v subject_a to_o and_o order_v by_o the_o whole_a as_o in_o a_o man_n body_n the_o foot_n though_o it_o have_v its_o proper_a use_n and_o operation_n be_v dress_v launch_v and_o order_v not_o by_o itself_o but_o by_o the_o hand_n and_o eye_n in_o city_n and_o great_a town_n
and_o they_o in_o one_o bed_n shall_v be_v so_o divide_v as_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v of_o one_o church_n nor_o worship_n god_n together_o in_o word_n sacrament_n prayer_n but_o apart_o o_o how_o will_v this_o overthrow_v all_o peace_n and_o quiet_a in_o family_n fill_v husband_n and_o wife_n with_o discontent_n and_o set_v at_o variance_n father_n and_o child_n each_o against_o other_o weaken_v that_o fervent_a love_n in_o those_o relation_n o_o how_o will_v this_o occasion_n disobedience_n contempt_n neglect_v of_o governor_n from_o the_o inferior_n of_o the_o family_n whilst_o the_o governor_n be_v look_v upon_o by_o they_o as_o not_o in_o a_o true_a church_n o_o how_o will_v this_o toleration_n take_v away_o for_o every_o saint_n must_v be_v free_a to_o join_v himself_o voluntary_o to_o what_o congregation_n he_o please_v that_o power_n authority_n which_o god_n have_v give_v the_o husband_n father_n and_o master_n overwive_n child_n servant_n whilst_o that_o they_o shall_v join_v against_o their_o will_n to_o such_o church_n and_o be_v steal_v from_o they_o against_o their_o pleasure_n neither_o can_v the_o governor_n be_v able_a to_o judge_v of_o their_o pro●●_n in_o the_o word_n nor_o be_v certain_a they_o sanctify_v the_o lord_n day_n according_a as_o god_n have_v lay_v the_o charge_n upon_o they_o in_o the_o four_o commandment_n when_o as_o the_o child_n and_o servant_n be_v of_o other_o church_n so_o that_o by_o these_o and_o many_o other_o thing_n which_o will_v be_v find_v in_o experience_n this_o toleration_n will_v pervert_v disturb_v that_o order_n of_o god_n own_o appoint_v namely_o the_o relation_n duty_n and_o work_n of_o family_n which_o be_v there_o nothing_o else_o to_o be_v say_v against_o it_o this_o be_v enough_o god_n certain_o appoint_v no_o such_o church_n way●●s_fw-la be_v cross_v to_o the_o good_a and_o peace_n of_o family_n one_o orcer_n of_o god_n certain_o not_o destroy_v another_o now_o how_o strong_a this_o reason_n be_v against_o this_o toleration_n i_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o court_n which_o have_v the_o legislative_a power_n they_o know_v well_o that_o both_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n be_v make_v of_o family_n all_o issue_v out_o from_o thence_o they_o be_v the_o seminary_n and_o nursery_n for_o both_o and_o if_o there_o be_v a_o groundwork_n lay_v for_o disturbance_n division_n and_o disorder_n there_o what_o can_v be_v firm_a peaceable_a or_o sure_o reason_n four_o there_o will_v be_v great_a danger_n of_o continual_a division_n distraction_n dispute_n among_o we_o not_o only_o from_o the_o different_a form_n of_o government_n and_o worship_n in_o their_o church_n and_o we_o but_o from_o other_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n hold_v by_o some_o of_o they_o for_o the_o present_a as_o for_o instance_n that_o saint_n when_o they_o die_v go_v not_o to_o heaven_n where_o christ_n be_v but_o they_o go_v to_o a_o three_o place_n the_o sit_n with_o their_o hat_n on_o at_o the_o receive_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n etc._n etc._n and_o other_o that_o will_v be_v daily_o broach_v and_o then_o their_o church_n be_v independent_a and_o not_o under_o the_o government_n of_o any_o out_o of_o themselves_o they_o will_v go_v on_o without_o be_v hinder_v and_o whereas_o we_o have_v now_o too_o many_o new_a and_o strange_a doctrine_n we_o shall_v have_v nothing_o but_o error_n and_o novelty_n broach_v and_o so_o great_a contention_n and_o breach_n among_o we_o reason_n v._o the_o most_o eminent_a minister_n in_o this_o kingdom_n for_o part_n grace_n and_o labour_n can_v have_v little_a assurance_n of_o the_o continuance_n of_o their_o flock_n to_o they_o if_o such_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v for_o they_o will_v draw_v away_o their_o people_n and_o admit_v they_o into_o their_o church_n and_o even_o gather_v and_o increase_v their_o church_n out_o of_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o best_a minister_n the_o minister_n shall_v do_v little_a else_o but_o spend_v and_o be_v spend_v for_o to_o fit_v man_n for_o they_o when_o minister_n have_v travel_v in_o birth_n of_o child_n and_o shall_v have_v comfort_n and_o joy_n in_o they_o than_o they_o will_v be_v steal_v away_o this_o toleration_n upon_o any_o discontent_n take_v or_o any_o light_a occasion_n of_o demand_v due_n or_o preach_v against_o any_o thing_n they_o like_v not_o open_v a_o wide_a door_n and_o will_v invite_v they_o to_o desert_v their_o minister_n and_o what_o a_o sad_n of_o the_o heart_n and_o discouragement_n in_o the_o work_n of_o the_o lord_n this_o must_v be_v to_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o kingdom_n let_v all_o judge_n reason_n vi_o a_o toleration_n of_o church_n to_o be_v erect_v as_o independent_a to_o enjoy_v liberty_n and_o exemption_n from_o the_o establish_v will_v be_v undoubted_o a_o mean_n and_o way_n of_o their_o infinite_a multiplication_n and_o increase_n even_o to_o increase_v they_o 30._o fold_n so_o that_o if_o the_o parliament_n can_v like_v to_o have_v more_o of_o the_o breed_n and_o have_v a_o delight_n to_o have_v multitude_n to_o be_v exempt_v from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n of_o the_o land_n which_o parliament_n never_o do_v no_o way_n like_o this_o for_o we_o see_v within_o this_o nine_o month_n though_o there_o be_v no_o toleration_n of_o their_o way_n yet_o have_v not_o be_v look_v after_o how_o be_v they_o increase_v and_o multiply_v and_o that_o there_o will_v be_v a_o mighty_a increase_n upon_o a_o toleration_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o cast_v a_o snare_n upon_o the_o people_n by_o this_o to_o make_v doubt_n nor_o nothing_o of_o the_o wantonness_n and_o instability_n of_o many_o professor_n nor_o of_o the_o activeness_n of_o many_o to_o spread_v these_o principle_n that_o their_o party_n may_v be_v considerable_a this_o may_v evince_v it_o in_o many_o if_o not_o in_o most_o town_n and_o parish_n it_o can_v be_v help_v but_o that_o there_o be_v and_o will_v be_v for_o many_o year_n man_n of_o no_o great_a popular_a gift_n for_o preach_v who_o also_o according_a to_o their_o principle_n not_o have_v be_v bring_v up_o to_o it_o can_v so_o comply_v with_o their_o people_n now_o many_o that_o live_v in_o these_o parish_n see_v they_o may_v keep_v their_o house_n and_o place_n of_o abode_n upon_o the_o news_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v for_o the_o benefit_n of_o more_o powerful_a practical_a and_o zealous_a preach_v betake_v themselves_o to_o go_v to_o their_o church_n which_o liberty_n they_o can_v have_v in_o the_o church_n establish_v for_o the_o law_n it_o be_v likely_a will_v provide_v for_o man_n to_o keep_v to_o their_o own_o minister_n where_o there_o be_v sufficient_a preach_n and_o so_o will_v fall_v to_o their_o principle_n and_o so_o we_o shall_v have_v upon_o this_o growd_v swarm_n of_o they_o reason_n vi_o the_o prime_a and_o fundamental_a principle_n of_o this_o independent_a way_n upon_o which_o they_o erect_v their_o church_n way_n and_o independency_n be_v very_o prejudicial_a dangerous_a and_o unsufferable_a to_o this_o kingdom_n as_o for_o instance_n saint_n qua_fw-la saint_n two_o or_o three_o of_o they_o or_o more_o they_o only_o have_v a_o immediate_a independent_a power_n church_n from_o christ_n their_o immediate_a head_n to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o into_o visible_a church_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n whatsoever_o upon_o earth_n as_o also_o be_v thus_o gather_v and_o join_v into_o a_o church_n to_o choose_v all_o officer_n among_o themselves_o and_o to_o exercise_v all_o discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a government_n even_o to_o excommunication_n without_o and_o against_o the_o good_a will_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n but_o the_o magistrate_n whether_o king_n and_o prince_n or_o state_n they_o have_v no_o power_n but_o in_o all_o thing_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n christ_n be_v a_o immediate_a governor_n to_o the_o saint_n have_v put_v none_o of_o his_o power_n out_o of_o his_o hand_n to_o any_o magistrate_n whatsoever_o but_o though_o he_o have_v give_v much_o power_n to_o magistrate_n over_o good_n liberty_n and_o life_n of_o his_o saint_n yet_o this_o spiritual_a power_n of_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o exercise_v censure_n and_o discipline_n so_o as_o it_o may_v not_o be_v exercise_v without_o their_o power_n and_o leave_v he_o have_v not_o give_v they_o so_o that_o i_o desire_v they_o to_o consider_v and_o inquire_v whether_o this_o deny_n to_o king_n and_o prince_n power_n and_o authority_n in_o cause_n ecclesiastical_a in_o the_o church_n and_o give_v all_o spiritual_a ecclesiastical_a power_n immediate_o and_o independent_o under_o christ_n to_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o not_o to_o the_o king_n be_v not_o against_o these_o law_n and_o statute_n of_o the_o land_n make_v in_o 26._o henry_n the_o 8._o cap._n 1._o 25._o year_n of_o henry_n the_o 8._o cap._n 19_o
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upon_o no_o great_a ground_n or_o cause_n can_v never_o be_v justify_v and_o i_o shall_v be_v ready_a upon_o that_o point_n to_o deal_v with_o any_o of_o you_o and_o for_o your_o better_a satisfaction_n for_o the_o present_a i_o wish_v the_o conscientious_a and_o sober_a minister_n to_o read_v two_o page_n in_o master_n robinson_n apology_n chap._n 12._o de_fw-la eccle._n anglic._n pag._n 86_o 87._o wherein_o he_o grant_v that_o church_n may_v not_o be_v depart_v from_o for_o circumstantial_a corruption_n nor_o for_o many_o inconvenience_n affirm_v that_o it_o be_v neither_o christian_a prudence_n nor_o charity_n to_o do_v so_o he_o show_v it_o be_v not_o a_o intolerable_a evil_n though_o a_o evil_a to_o be_v lament_v for_o evil_a man_n to_o be_v suffer_v in_o the_o church_n nor_o that_o discipline_n as_o it_o be_v call_v or_o that_o ecclesiastical_a government_n institute_v by_o christ_n be_v neglect_v or_o violate_v but_o that_o be_v it_o that_o the_o plain_a contrary_a to_o it_o 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sacrament_n a_o long_a time_n without_o censure_n especial_o unless_o you_o allow_v people_n to_o be_v the_o instrument_n and_o exercise_n excommunication_n without_o have_v ordination_n of_o officer_n without_o prophesy_v also_o many_o year_n why_o can_v you_o not_o bear_v with_o some_o defect_n in_o our_o church_n and_o be_v content_a to_o wait_v some_o year_n till_o god_n either_o give_v you_o light_a to_o see_v your_o mistake_n or_o else_o till_o we_o have_v more_o light_a to_o perfect_v what_o be_v want_v you_o tell_v we_o that_o some_o thing_n may_v be_v omit_v for_o a_o time_n as_o circumcision_n be_v in_o the_o wilderness_n and_o that_o affirmative_n do_v not_o bind_v too_o always_o and_o that_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n may_v be_v forbear_v for_o a_o time_n when_o it_o be_v evident_a it_o will_v not_o be_v for_o edification_n to_o the_o church_n but_o destruction_n what_o shall_v hinder_v then_o but_o that_o you_o ought_v to_o incorporate_v into_o our_o assembly_n though_o 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protest_v against_o they_o though_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o practise_v you_o judge_v yourselves_o tie_v to_o be_v found_v upon_o a_o false_a principle_n namely_o that_o the_o power_n of_o government_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n five_o there_o be_v a_o medium_n between_o persecution_n as_o you_o term_v it_o and_o a_o public_a toleration_n a_o middle_a way_n between_o not_o suffer_v man_n to_o live_v in_o the_o land_n and_o the_o grant_v they_o a_o liberty_n of_o separate_a assembly_n so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n either_o of_o leave_v the_o land_n or_o of_o enjoy_v exempt_a congregation_n for_o there_o be_v a_o three_o datur_fw-la tertium_fw-la as_o for_o instance_n person_n may_v be_v tolerate_v to_o inhabit_v in_o a_o land_n to_o enjoy_v their_o land_n and_o liberty_n and_o not_o be_v compel_v to_o profess_v and_o practise_v thing_n which_o be_v against_o their_o conscience_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o be_v force_v and_o 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these_o ordinance_n and_o minister_n you_o must_v be_v in_o a_o church_n way_n and_o fellowship_n as_o now_o you_o be_v then_o know_v according_a to_o your_o principle_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n lay_v down_o by_o master_n robinson_n and_o by_o yourselves_o in_o all_o your_o manuscript_n you_o may_v enjoy_v your_o way_n in_o have_v several_a visible_a church_n and_o that_o without_o that_o offence_n and_o scandal_n to_o magistrate_n and_o church_n and_o yet_o neither_o leave_v the_o kingdom_n nor_o have_v a_o toleration_n and_o 221._o that_o i_o will_v demonstrate_v thus_o two_o or_o three_o saint_n join_v together_o in_o a_o covenant_n make_v a_o church_n a_o great_a number_n be_v not_o require_v neither_o officer_n to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n a_o great_a addition_n of_o company_n to_o this_o two_o or_o three_o though_o they_o may_v make_v for_o the_o well_o be_v and_o flourish_v of_o the_o church_n yet_o they_o be_v not_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o church_n now_o 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and_o toleration_n they_o be_v not_o such_o honest_a soul_n but_o let_v they_o know_v honest_a soul_n be_v not_o only_o with_o they_o for_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o ever_o have_v be_v and_o be_v as_o honest_a minister_n and_o people_n that_o have_v reject_v your_o way_n as_o ever_o any_o that_o fall_v to_o it_o nay_o the_o great_a non-conformist_n and_o most_o able_a in_o that_o way_n have_v write_v the_o most_o against_o you_o and_o labour_v upon_o all_o occasion_n to_o preserve_v people_n from_o fall_v to_o you_o as_o mr_n cartwright_n mr_n brightman_n mr_n parker_n mr_n hildersham_n dr_n ames_n mr_n bradshaw_n mr_n ball_n mr_n dod_n mr_n baines_n with_o many_o other_o reason_n vi_o ay_o but_o they_o be_v good_a man_n and_o man_n of_o great_a gift_n and_o therefore_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v to_o have_v such_o church_n it_o be_v pity_n they_o shall_v leave_v the_o land_n and_o we_o lose_v their_o prayer_n answ._n 1._o the_o better_a man_n they_o be_v and_o the_o more_o able_a the_o worse_a to_o set_v up_o separate_a church_n for_o they_o will_v the_o more_o endanger_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o make_v the_o schism_n great_a 2._o for_o their_o prayer_n we_o may_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o they_o as_o well_o when_o they_o be_v absent_a as_o present_v and_o some_o of_o they_o have_v say_v they_o pray_v more_o for_o england_n when_o out_o of_o it_o than_o when_o in_o it_o 3._o they_o leave_v the_o kingdom_n when_o it_o be_v in_o great_a danger_n and_o in_o most_o need_n of_o help_n and_o provide_v for_o themselves_o to_o keep_v in_o a_o whole_a skin_n and_o without_o they_o we_o stand_v here_o in_o the_o gap_n and_o prevail_v with_o god_n and_o rather_o than_o to_o buy_v their_o company_n at_o such_o a_o rate_n as_o a_o toleration_n it_o be_v better_a to_o want_v it_o as_o i_o show_v before_o and_o i_o question_v not_o but_o the_o kingdom_n will_v do_v well_o enough_o though_o they_o return_v and_o the_o better_a unless_o they_o cease_v sow_v of_o their_o principle_n 4._o for_o this_o objection_n of_o be_v good_a man_n i_o shall_v answer_v it_o at_o large_a in_o another_o tractate_n wherein_o i_o shall_v mind_v man_n of_o many_o danger_n that_o may_v arise_v to_o they_o from_o good_a and_o eminent_a man_n and_o full_o show_v what_o little_a strength_n there_o be_v in_o that_o reason_n clear_v also_o many_o thing_n in_o reference_n to_o that_o objection_n quest_n ay_o but_o may_v not_o conscientious_a man_n who_o agree_v with_o we_o in_o the_o main_a in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n be_v tolerate_v and_o spare_v in_o some_o thing_n wherein_o they_o differ_v from_o what_o be_v common_o receive_v answ._n yes_o i_o do_v in_o my_o judgement_n much_o allow_v of_o bear_v and_o forbear_v one_o another_o in_o many_o difference_n of_o opinion_n and_o practice_n so_o as_o christian_n ought_v 3._o not_o to_o judge_v nor_o censure_v one_o another_o nor_o refuse_v communion_n and_o fellowship_n by_o 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faith_n and_o conscience_n so_o calvin_n on_o these_o two_o verse_n 10._o and_o 12._o speak_v thus_o but_o let_v they_o hear_v whoever_o give_v occasion_n of_o trouble_n to_o the_o church_n who_o loosen_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n who_o break_v peace_n and_o if_o they_o have_v any_o right_a understanding_n let_v they_o tremble_v at_o this_o for_o god_n do_v pronounce_v by_o the_o mouth_n of_o paul_n that_o no_o author_n of_o such_o offence_n shall_v be_v unpunished_a they_o tear_v and_o rend_v the_o church_n about_o circumcision_n i_o will_v have_v they_o to_o be_v cut_v off_o neither_o can_v this_o be_v condemn_v of_o cruelty_n as_o if_o it_o be_v against_o charity_n for_o if_o we_o compare_v the_o church_n with_o one_o man_n or_o a_o few_o how_o far_o do_v that_o outwaigh_a for_o it_o be_v cruel_a mercy_n which_o prefer_v one_o man_n or_o a_o few_o before_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n now_o the_o toleration_n desire_v to_o set_v up_o church_n independent_a and_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n in_o the_o kingdom_n it_o be_v in_o itself_o a_o schism_n a_o rent_n and_o a_o trouble_v disturb_v of_o the_o church_n so_o it_o will_v prove_v more_o and_o more_o and_o can_v be_v avoid_v according_a to_o their_o principle_n and_o practice_n hitherto_o a_o daily_a schism_n and_o rent_n in_o this_o church_n and_o a_o infinite_a disturbance_n both_o to_o the_o outward_a peace_n and_o to_o the_o faith_n and_o conscience_n of_o the_o people_n in_o this_o kingdom_n the_o church_n of_o england_n will_v be_v as_o much_o trouble_v by_o it_o as_o ever_o be_v the_o church_n of_o galatia_n which_o will_v appear_v more_o full_o in_o the_o follow_a reason_n and_o therefore_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v no_o toleration_n every_o one_o in_o their_o place_n ought_v to_o be_v against_o it_o the_o magistrate_n minister_n and_o people_n the_o permit_v and_o suffer_v of_o evil_a with_o the_o give_n of_o any_o countenance_n to_o it_o when_o man_n have_v power_n to_o hinder_v it_o be_v to_o be_v partaker_n of_o their_o sin_n 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o the_o second_o epistle_n of_o john_n the_o 11._o verse_n qui_fw-la non_fw-la prohibet_fw-la quando_fw-la protest_v jubet_fw-la he_o that_o do_v not_o forbid_v when_o he_o have_v power_n command_n and_o let_v i_o ask_v the_o independent_a minister_n a_o question_n or_o two_o be_v it_o fit_v that_o well_o mean_v christian_n shall_v be_v suffer_v to_o go_v and_o make_v church_n and_o then_o proceed_v to_o choose_v who_o they_o will_v for_o minister_n as_o some_o tailor_n feltmaker_n button-maker_n man_n ignorant_a and_o low_a in_o part_n by_o who_o they_o shall_v be_v lead_v into_o sin_n and_o error_n and_o to_o forsake_v the_o public_a assembly_n where_o they_o may_v enjoy_v worthy_a and_o precious_a pastor_n after_o god_n own_o heart_n who_o will_v feed_v they_o with_o knowledge_n and_o understanding_n if_o once_o there_o be_v a_o toleration_n of_o church_n it_o will_v be_v thus_o but_o if_o they_o be_v hinder_v of_o all_o meeting_n this_o will_v be_v prevent_v so_o heresy_n also_o may_v take_v and_o spread_v in_o those_o separate_a assembly_n before_o they_o can_v be_v know_v to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o minister_n of_o other_o church_n do_v not_o your_o heart_n bleed_v within_o you_o to_o see_v and_o hear_v of_o this_o for_o the_o present_a in_o several_a place_n and_o to_o think_v what_o will_v be_v hereafter_o o_o i_o do_v and_o thus_o if_o once_o there_o be_v a_o toleration_n how_o many_o weak_a brethren_n will_v perish_v for_o who_o christ_n die_v reason_n ii_o the_o toleration_n desire_v will_v not_o help_v to_o heal_v the_o schism_n and_o tent_n of_o this_o church_n which_o be_v one_o special_a thing_n ought_v to_o be_v look_v unto_o in_o this_o present_a reformation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o will_v much_o foment_n and_o increase_v it_o for_o whilst_o some_o congregation_n and_o they_o account_v of_o note_n both_o for_o minister_n and_o people_n will_v not_o submit_v to_o the_o reformation_n 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upon_o these_o ground_n 1._o because_o many_o of_o the_o people_n who_o yet_o be_v not_o in_o this_o church_n way_n for_o their_o practice_n be_v yet_o much_o possess_v with_o these_o principle_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n as_o the_o only_a way_n of_o god_n and_o be_v much_o look_v towards_o it_o 2._o the_o mind_n of_o multitude_n of_o the_o professor_n in_o england_n and_o especial_o in_o this_o city_n be_v upon_o all_o occasion_n very_o apt_a to_o fall_v to_o any_o way_n in_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n that_o be_v not_o common_o receive_v by_o the_o church_n as_o account_v some_o singular_a perfection_n to_o be_v in_o that_o which_o be_v new_a and_o hold_v but_o by_o a_o few_o 3._o though_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o congregation_n tolerate_v will_v promise_v not_o to_o preach_v of_o these_o point_n in_o public_a nor_o in_o private_a to_o speak_v of_o they_o which_o yet_o they_o will_v not_o be_v tie_v unto_o yet_o their_o people_n many_o of_o they_o both_o man_n and_o woman_n be_v so_o strange_o bold_a pragmatical_a and_o so_o high_o conceit_v of_o their_o way_n as_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o only_a way_n of_o christ_n that_o what_o out_o of_o those_o principle_n and_o what_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o relation_n in_o friendship_n kindred_n etc._n etc._n there_o will_v be_v continual_a draw_n of_o many_o and_o many_o fall_n to_o they_o 4._o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o this_o church_n way_n as_o namely_o independency_n liberty_n power_n of_o government_n and_o rule_n to_o be_v in_o the_o people_n be_v mighty_a please_n to_o flesh_n and_o blood_n people_n general_o chief_o mean_a person_n and_o such_o who_o have_v be_v keep_v under_o affect_v independency_n liberty_n power_n and_o rule_n 5._o the_o grant_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v be_v make_v use_n of_o by_o they_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o their_o way_n to_o be_v the_o truth_n and_o will_v be_v interpret_v in_o this_o sense_n that_o they_o have_v such_o ground_n and_o reason_n as_o the_o able_a minister_n in_o the_o kingdom_n can_v not_o answer_v and_o therefore_o be_v content_a they_o shall_v have_v a_o toleration_n else_o if_o they_o can_v have_v satisfy_v they_o what_o need_v a_o toleration_n only_o though_o they_o can_v not_o answer_v their_o reason_n and_o have_v nothing_o to_o say_v yet_o they_o will_v not_o come_v to_o they_o and_o this_o will_v be_v speak_v of_o by_o their_o follower_n that_o we_o will_v not_o be_v convince_v though_o we_o can_v say_v nothing_o against_o it_o all_o which_o will_v as_o a_o mean_n to_o increase_v their_o side_n occasion_n continual_a strife_n division_n heartburning_n both_o of_o minister_n against_o minister_n and_o people_n against_o people_n so_o that_o in_o stead_n of_o union_n and_o peace_n in_o the_o kingdom_n and_o church_n we_o shall_v have_v notwithstanding_o all_o reformation_n a_o great_a division_n and_o rent_n succeed_v than_o ever_o before_o reason_n iii_o this_o toleration_n will_v not_o only_o breed_v division_n and_o schism_n disturb_v the_o peace_n and_o quiet_a of_o church_n and_o town_n by_o set_v they_o who_o be_v of_o different_a family_n and_o in_o more_o remote_a relation_n one_o against_o another_o but_o it_o will_v undoubted_o cause_v much_o disturbance_n discontent_n and_o division_n in_o the_o same_o family_n even_o between_o the_o near_a relation_n of_o husband_n and_o wife_n father_n and_o child_n brother_n and_o sister_n master_n and_o servant_n the_o husband_n be_v of_o one_o church_n and_o the_o wife_n of_o another_o the_o father_n of_o one_o and_o the_o child_n of_o another_o the_o master_n of_o the_o church_n establish_v by_o law_n the_o servant_n of_o the_o tolerate_v one_o brother_n of_o one_o church_n and_o another_o brother_n of_o another_o and_o so_o all_o economical_a relation_n and_o duty_n will_v be_v much_o disturb_v when_o as_o they_o of_o one_o house_n