of his own lippes Of the second head of Thâ— White his Treatise HItherto of the first â—ead of his 〈…〉 â—hat he saith we cut of from being true Curches in our account all the Churches of Christ that ever have ben since the Apostles dayes or now are yâ—â— and our selueâ— also His proof of all this he would fetch partly from the description aforesaid partly from a 〈◊〉 Treatise entituled A true description out of the word of God of the visible Church His instances are three 1. of the Chruches that haue ben since the Apostles dayes 2. of the Churches that now are 3. of our selues Touching which omitting that I haue answered before to his former exception which may here agayn be remembred though I repeat it not let the Reader now first obserue and marke it well how he saith the Churches that haue ben since the Apostles dayes and not the Churches that were in their dayes Beliâ—◠〈…〉 that th◠〈…〉 said cutteth not them of And if not them then not any other at all For that which made them to be true visible Churches doth and must make all other so to be to the end of the world namely the calling of Christ and their mutuall covenant and communion in his Gospell as we haue shewed before out of the Scriptures Wherevpon I reason thus If the description aforesaid cut not of the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles from being true visible Churches of Christ then doth it not cut of any other which since that tyme haue bene are or shal be to the end of the world But the former is true Therefore the latter The Proposition is vndenyable from the Scriptures and demonstration aforesaid It is one and the same thing that giveth being to all true visible Churches of Chrâ—â—t That which gave being to the Churches of Ierusalem Antioch Rome c. gaue also being to the Churches of Galatia Corinth Ephesus c. notwithstanding the corruptions they fell into And that which then gave being to them giveth being to all that haue ben since or ever shal be The Church is the body of Christ and every one members for their part He is th◠〈◊〉 â—f the body from him doth all the life power thereof pâ—oceed He is not devided The Assumption is as certaâ—ne 〈◊〉 will appearâ— in that the Primitive Churches planted by the Apostles were companies of faithfull people by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false vvayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is proved by the Acts of the Apostles and their Epistles throughout And if this man or his Maisters of whome he learned to object against this description do deny it as by their exceptions reasons is implyed may not we justly returne vnto them that which vnjustly they would impute vnto vs and say Are not they then the blasphemers of the Christians and their Churches Or is not this to robbe Christ of his honour Or may not that saying be verifyed of themselues He that despiseth his neighbour is a foole Pro. 11.12 But let vs come to his proof concerning the Churches spoken of by himself Thus he concludeth it If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or novv is that we read of be separate from all false vvayes in their account then by this description and in tho◠〈…〉 Churches But the former is true Therefore the latter Answ. The whole Sillogisme fayleth as he hath propounded it In the Proposition or first 〈…〉 thaâ— which in the description is particularly specified and needfull alway to be observed namely to be companies by the word of God called out from the world and false wayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. Wherfore his Proposition is not so vndenyable as hâ— supposâ—th from thaâ— description And when these particulars which now he hath omittâ—d be 〈…〉 to be implyed yet then also by further following of â—he AssumptioÌ„ may there be occasion to obserue more concerning it And for the Assuption it self or second part of the Reason it must needs fayle in like maner because of that omitted in the Proposition aforesaid His reason therefore if he would haue reasoned soundly and to the purpose should haue bene framed thus If no Church that hath bene since the Apostles dayes or now is that we read of be in their account by the word of God called out and separated from the world and the false wayes thereof gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntarie profession of the faith and obedience of Christ then by his description and in their account must they be no true Churches But the former is true Therefore the latter Answ. 1. The very propounding of the Reason thus sheweth the weaknes of it 2. And what if we would not be drawen to speak of the Churches since but onely of them that were in the Apostles dayes keeping onely to the word of God and that which is recorded therein If they cannot by it or the example of those Churches disproue our testimony what would it help them or hurt vs if we answered them no further 3. Yet to answer this Reason notwithstanding and to omit the Proposition as is aforesaid I requier proof of the Assumption because all that he hath brought for confirmation of it doth not yet proue it as will appeare by discussing his allegations concerning the Churches he speaketh of 1. that were then 2. that now are 3. and our selues For the first viz the Churches heretofore since the Apostles dayes all that he saith is that we account the very saying of the Lords Prayer as a prayer to be a false way which was vsed from the Apostles age c. Ans. 1. Is this all he can alledge against vs concerning those Churches tymes Others 〈…〉 would perswade they have it by 〈◊〉 also of those wâ—iteâ—s that Archbishops Primates Metropolitans Archdeacons stinted formes of prayer the vse of the signe of the crosse and a number of such like things haue ben from the Apostles age Should we therefore believe them herein And how cometh it that this Antiquarie hath never a word of all these for those tymes Is it that he thinketh we hold them not now for false wayes of governing the Church and worshipping the Lord Or is it not in deed because the Hypocrite would not yet be seen to speak for these and would notwithstanding so dissâ—mble the matter as yet may please all sorts that are against vs 2. To speake of that he alledgeth admitting all he saith here to be true yet is not the Assumption thereby proued For in all true Churches the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to obey the Gospell bindes them from all errour and false wayes notwithstanding that both the members and the whole body be subject to fall into them from
is When ye pray say Our Father c. And so the Apostles and Christians in all ages haue sinned when they prayed and said it not Yea and these men themselues do aboue all other transgresse herein who pray many tymes without vsing of it and yet think it to be Christs expresse commaundement which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith Yet also when they shall haue considered that it conteyneth all things whatsoever from the beginning of the world to the end thereof haue bene or can be asked aright by any it would be knowen with what reason or proportion of faith any particular person or Church can so vse it as they speak without speciall explication and application of the severall heads to them selues and their present occasions Secondly he saith our opinion is contrary to the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer in all things as Our Father give vs and Amen annexed in the end vvhich shevves that they are petitions not positions or rules vvhich are set dovvn in an other forme Mat. 7.7 21.22 1 Ioh. 5.14 Ansvv. If it be intended by the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer that it should be so vsed then besides the answers already made I ask VVhether we should vse it as it is set downe by Mathevv or by Luke For Luke doth not onely vary from Mathevv in divers words but also omitteth the whole Conclusion yea and the word Amen which is here alledged for a proof that it is so to be vsed as is aforesaid But in deed other vse may be made then these men do of the propounding it thus by way of petitions rather then of positions or rules as in other places is done Namely that Christ hereby would shew the right maner of praying vnto God that we may with confidence come and speak vnto him in our prayers propoūding our requests holily carefully reverendly without babling according to our severall occasions c. And so meeteth with the manifold errours that in the vse of prayer haue crept into the world as may be seen among the Papists Neutral-Protestants Anabaptists Adamians Euchetians and other hereticks Idolaters superstitious and ignorant people some thinking that we should not our selues come directly to God in prayer but vse the mediation of some Saints or Angels c. others that reading on a book is prayer to God though it be of other mens words prescribed vnto vs others that we should repeat the same things over againe and agayne others that we should vse sighs without words others that we should not pray vnto God at all seing he knoweth what we need and others that we should ever be praying giving no place eyther to other exercises of religion or to any labour of the hands c. All which and the like heresies and abuses of the heavenly and most comfortable vse of prayer Christ hath prevented and condemned by this his direction for prayer propounded after the forme and maner aforesaid 3. Thirdly he saith our opiniō is contrary to the vse of al Christians that we read of as before out of Tertullian and others may be alleadged Answ. Then is it contrary to the vse of the Apostles and Primitive Churches of whom we read in the Scriptures Which if any could shew that alone would end the question whereas the vse testimony of any other persons Churches or ages cannot do it As Tertullian himself sheweth when he saith That is truest which is first that is first which is from the beginning that is from the beginning which is from the Apostles But now admitting his proofs were good that the Lords prayer as it is called were to be vsed as a prayer yet were it then further needfull to be knowen whether it be Christs cōmaundement that we should vse it for our prayer alone by it self or that we should ioyne it with other prayers conceived by our selues withall If he say we should vse it alone his owne testimony out of Tertullian besides their own practise is against him who saith that it being premised as a foundation other petitions may be built there vpō And if he say we should ioyne it with the other prayers conceived by our selues the practise and testimony of the Apostles is against him For which see Mat. 8.25 Act. 1.24.25 and 4.24 30. Phil. 1.3.4.9.10.11 4.6 1 Thess. 5.17.18.19.23 2. The second thing is that he saith we hold it not lawfull for the innocent parties to reteyne the offender as the wife her husband or the husband his wife if eyther partie haue committed adultery no though the innocent party vpon the others repentance forgiving the others sinne be desirous still to live vvith the other party in the mariage covenant as before but haue excommunicated the parties innocent for so doing This in deed we haue held the most of vs heretofore and some of vs are so perswaded still And while we were generally so mynded we also held it our duty accordingly to walk taking the innocent partie that reteyned such offenders though vpon their repentance yet to be defiled and to liue in sinne with them as coupling themselues with an harlot But since vpon further consideration of this question discussing it among our selves when we could not fynde divorce in the Scriptures any where commaunded but permitted onely and that such offenders repenting thereof are not to be reputed in that case of harlots but to be washed from their sinne justifyed in Iesus Christ we have vpon these and other like reasons altered our former judgement and now haue thus observed and agreed thus concerning this matter That where the Magistrates inflict not death vpon such offenders as by the law of God they should it is in the liberty and power of the innocent party eyther for that crime to put away the offender or vpon their repentance to reteyne them But this with these cautions 1. So as themselues were no meanes or cause of the others so transgressing 2. That they be no nourishers of them in the like for tyme to come 3. That this remission and acceptance of the offender by the innocent party be done before sufficient winesses 4. That this also as the mariage at the first be alway in the Lord. And for the Churches the Ministers dutie therein that it is onely to teach and require of them repentance after the example of Christ Ioh. 8.10.11 or els to see them cast out of the Church according to the Apostles doctrine 1 Cor. 5.11.12.13 This is that which now the most of vs do think concerning this question being notwithstanding ready to heare if any can shew vs better frō the word of God which is the ground and rule of the constitution of our Church Touching the case and excommunication of H. C. and E. H. his wife of which he speaketh both here and afterward againe how will he prove the persons spoken of to be repentant
dagger c. Now whereas it hath bene objected that they refused not simply to come that charity would have taken things in the best part that the Church might have appointed them another day c. it was also graunted that these and all such things should have bene duly weighed afore the censure had bene executed and that whatsoever errour was committed therin is alway to be acknowledged yet for the reasons before alledged the censure was deemed to be just and not to be recalled And for those he speaketh of that withstood their receiving in againe even this sheweth that there were then among themselves which thought the excommunication was not to be revoked Yet were not they therefore excommunicated as he saith but were earnestly exhorted to rest in their difference of judgement and notwithstanding it peaceably to continew with the Church if it were but till they could vse the advise and help of others for the better clearing of this conttroversy which had so long much troubled theÌ„ Yet they would not but left of all communion with the Church and so persisting were for this cause excommunicated Who also afterward vpon acknowledgement of their eâ—rour therein were received agayne Finally for the reversing agayn of the censure aforesaid who kâ—oweth not that even the best and wisest men have their second 〈◊〉 thoughts and that in some cases this befell the Prophets Apostles themselves howsoever here he terme it a dallying esteeming others belike by himself who hath so chaunged and rechaunged his faith and profession as if he thought he might dally with religion at his pleasure But the Lord is not mocked As he hath sowed to the flesh so let him look of the flesh to reap corruption For as every man soweth so shall he reap Gal. 6.7.8 2. Of the second instance which is about such as have heard the word preached in the Dutch Church I have spoken before If he had named the divers he speaketh of it might have bene shewed that they were cast out for divers causes As M. Sl. whom onely he nameth in particular was for receiving and maynteyning these errors 1. The baptising of the seed of such as are no meÌ„bers of any visible Church of Christ neyther can be themselves received to the Lords supper in any such Church 2. Read prayer or a set forme of prayers prescribed by men for thâ— worship of God As also mainteyning that that onely is not to be vsâ—d in the worship of God which God himself hath commaunded These are other things then onely hearing the word preached as this Proctor for excommunicates objecteth agayne and agayne in his Libell And both the Teacher and my self told him aforehand what would follow if he ioyned with the Dutch in these corruptions aforesaid Which M. Sl. himself knoweth to be true As he doth also that the other matter here intimated was about their Temples whither he was to bring the schollers to the publick worship concerning which there being then some diversity of judgement and himself affirming that he had alwayes held it lawfull to heare in those places so had before practised after he was come to this cause I said as I remember that it should not trouble my self for others I would therein perswade them the best I could But whereas we heard that the Dutch baptized all that were brought vnto them vsed also read prayer in their worship I told him also that if these things being so he should partake with theÌ„ therein that theÌ„ his case would prove such as we could not keep coÌ„munion together Yet he went on persisted and so for his receiving and mainteyning of these corruptions among them about baptisme and read prayer he was cast out of the Church By which also this mans dealing and depraving aâ—ter his maner may here be observed And for the generall of excommunicating such as being of vs have declined to the corruptioÌ„s of these Churches the Law of God requireth that all sinne and sinners be censured without respect of persons And who ever would have blamed such of the Primitive Churches as were free from the errors found in others of them at the same tyme about the resurrection from the dead fornication spirituall and bodily iustification by workes of the Law c. if any of their members declining therevnto they should have excommunicated them for this cause If the particulars noted in this Dutch Church be not errors corruptions why is not that poynt vndertaken to be cleared If they be such why should we not for them accordingly censure our members declining therevnto 3. Of the third which is about the question of Apostasie often spoken of by him who is so notable an Apostate himself I have spoken somewhat before Pag. 34. Now further the Reader is to know that while my self with some other of vs were prisoners in England there fell out question about this matter among the brethren here in these countreyes Whereof knowledge being given vnto vs from hence we wrote a letter vnto them setting downe what our judgment then was about this point the reasons perswading vs therevnto And this is that wherof he speaketh here which we wrote to the Church being absent from it Whereabout some of the brethreÌ„ from hence wrote vnto vs a while after how they were contrarie mynded and their reasons thereof Afterward it pleased God so to dispose as we were discharged out of prison and came over hither Being here there was speach and question againe about this matter And some of vs did now consider further about it more being observed out of the Scriptures about this point then at the first had ben And so began the alteration of our iudgment to be such as it is Which was a good while before ever we heard any thing concerning Mr A. So very false it is which here he writeth thereabout And for those that were cast out these things are to be observed 1. Both the poynt in generall and the case in particular was considered For the generall these questions were spoken of whether the Priests being speciall types of Christ the exception out of Ezech. 44. where they are spoken of do yet include all persons tymes offices and conditions c. Also whether even in the tyme of the Law the Levites which were not of the Priests falling to Idolatry and afterward repenting might not againe have and execute the same office function as they had before And in the New Testament whether Iohn Mark at first refused by Paul for his apostasie Act. 15.37.38 was not afterward received by the same Apostle and employed in the Ministerie of the Gospell notwithstanding Col. 4.10.11 c. For the particular it was also considered what the exceptioÌ„ was about which is spokeÌ„ of before Pag. 42. that theÌ„selves could not deny but he was a man very fit for the office in all other respects that he was already in
present do testify that he shewed it for such things as could be proved against him in other things stood vpon his clearing But whatsoever this White hath wâ—itten here against him now that he is returned to the Church of EnglaÌ„d whither himself also is revolted the point of his weapon if there be any sharpnes in it is turned into his owne and that Churches bowels The same falleth out in his next instance about adultery For that man also is declined to the Church of England and there now liveth Thus still is he snared in his owne wordes But yet further see how he dealeth here in that which followeth He saith R.B. was publickly accused in our meeting for creeping in at a window to come to bed to another mans wife That this is false is testified by such as were present at the meeting spoken of that he did not creep in at a window so to do we heare is testifyed even by themselves from whom the speach of these things did first proceed Which being so why or how should wee deale vvith him publickly thereabout And touching the man spoken of it is well knowen that as he hath sinned so he hath also repented having therein before him the example of David in Israel VVhere if VVhite had lived as he hath done among vs would it not have bene counted horrible to vse his own word so to have dealt with them as he hath dealt with vs His next instance is of one of our Elders Mr St. against whom he objecteth in particular three things The first filthynes and of this to vtter his malice the more he speaketh fower tymes in a few leaves together sometymes vnder the termes of filthynes with his wives daughter sometymes of vncleannes sometymes of incest For which Mr. St. hath called him before the Magistrates here for a sclaunderer desiring that proof may be brought or satisfaction made according to justice The second is supporting vncleannes in a woman a member of our Church The woman he hath named before to be Iud. Hol. For which also she hath called him before the Magistrates of this ciâ—â— where we live The third is refusing to pray vvith his ovvn vvifâ— a member likevvise of the same Church Towchiâ—g which he saith hâ— is perswaded such cases may and do sometimes fall out between man and wife as while â—he things so continew between them they may lawfully absteyne from prayer the one with the other vsing all good meanes within their own walles to be reconciled together and to live so each with other as their prayers may not be interrupted And that he hath not refused to pray with his wife but in such case and maner These are the particulars objected after which a generall is annexed of vvorse cariage then this often complayned of by his vvife committed by him which the man saith he is ashamed to meÌ„tioÌ„ But as he nameth not the thing so neither doth he mention the persons to whome she hath complayned thereof And if there were not some other cause in it who can think that he is ashamed to mention any thing that hath a forehead to write and deale so shamefully as he hath done Towching myne ovvn knovvledg and dealing about these things to speak of no other now this Th. VVhites wife can testify what I did therin a good while since whereof she hath particular knowledg and which by this dealing of his I am now constrayned to publish As I remenber about some five yeares since there came vnto me a brother of the Church yet living and told me with great heavines how he heard that Mr St. had lyen vvith his vvives daughter and that the matter should be heard publikly in the Church I told him this was the first tyme I heard it inquired who it was that reported it to him which he told me Then I went my self inquired from one to another of whom they had it til by degrees it was brought to Rose Ph. now the wife of this Th. White to whom when I came she did for some things which she had spoken name her authors of whom she heard them but for this could name none at all but confessâ—d it vvas her ovvne addition and then shewed great sorrow and repentance for her so doing Now how she was rebuked for this her evill dealing at that tyme I need not here to write But leaving the Reader to lay this dealing of hers then and this of her husbands now together and accordingly to esteem thereof I wil proceed to the next instances here alledged They are of Iud. Hol. Tho. Can. Ia. Ioh. c. whome he mentioneth here by name to be open offenders but sheweth not how or wherein Of Iud. Hol. I wrote before how she hath called him before the Magistrates hereabout And so hath Iacob Ioh a man that hath laid downe his life for the Name of Christ being for his witnesse thereof condemned to death and brought to the place of execution then reprived since â—ent away out of the LaÌ„d as banished And touching Tho Ca. himself that here findeth fault for reteyning him as being an open offender doth afterward in a postscript at the end of his book fynd fault with the casting of him out as being a man penitent and therefore not so to be dealt withall but still to be reteyned according to Christs rule Mat. 18.22 Luc. 17.4 By his owne confession therefore such as repent of their sinnes are to be reteyned in the Church and not now to be counted for open offenders VVhat meaneth he then thus to write of any persons repenting of their sinnes as if while such were reteyned the Church were not separate from open offenders or they vnfit members for the fellowship thereof But if all these things were as he saith yet are they not in our constitution and therefore not of weight against the description aforesaid VVhich himself perceiving attempteth therefore otherwise to prove that even in the constitution of our Church we hold false wayes VVhere note by the way how himself yeeldeth that the foâ—mer evils which he hath objected are not in our constitution And as not they so neyther any other For as we haue said and are constreyned often to repeat it the calling of Christ and our covenant which is to obey the faith of the Gospell excludeth all evill false wayes whatsoever Yet let vs consider the particulars which here he hath alledged The first is that he saith we hold the Lords prayer is not to be vsed as a prayer contrary to Christs expresse coÌ„maundement which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith I answer if it be Christs commaundement so to vse it then did the Apostles to whom it was given both so vse it themselves and teach others likewise to do Neyther of which can be shewed Then ought we alwayes whensoever we pray to vse this for our prayer seing Christs expresse commaundement
termed our Buls of excoÌ„munications Suerly God that will not hold him guiltles that taketh his Name in vaine will never suffer such prophanation of his Name and ordinance to go in vaine Such deâ—iding and despising of the Lord and his ordinances is fearfull And a fearfull thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God All his Lords the Prelates authority and authorizing of his book to be published as himself alledged here before the Magistrates will not help him before the Lord who is a consuming fier From whom what can he or any so persisting look for els but to be cast out from his presence and to have their portion among the cursed to heare that fearfull sentence Go ye cursed into everlasting fier which is prepared for the Divell and his Angels Mat. 25.41 And thus hath this Esau shewed himself to be one of those prophane of whom he speaketh here hardened in his sinne and prophanenes and of which also he spake in the Preface at the beginning of his book That in him might be seen the truth of that which SalomoÌ„ saith The lippes of a foole devoure himself The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnes and the latter end of his mouth is wicked madnes that thus also it might appeare how far he is froÌ„ being of the Israel of God that follow peace and holynes without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb. 12.14 TOwching his postscript about T. C. the man himself saith he is falsely traduced by him as he was likewise accused by some other here to Magistrates for the same thing who could not prove it against him when the matter came to be examined And see here still the bad dealing of this man who publisheth his name in this manner to the world onely vpon an hear-say not knowing whether the thing were true or false and then also when he heard withall that he had greatly bewayled his sinne and had not afterward given him any iust or needfull cause so to do For the casting of him out it was thought meet and good considering his former dealing the present case so to proceed yet not without differeÌ„ce of judgment in some of vs thereabout But he was shortly after received in againe being repentant for his sinne Now here let the Reader observe how this man which blameth others for not forgiving of penitent sinners hath not ceased throughout his book to publish and object the sinnes of such against the whole Church and the parties themselves besides the manifold falsehoods and blasphemies into which also he is â—un But his madnes is become manifest to men and his judgement sleepeth not with God who will remember and reward him according to his workes Nehem. 6.14 2 Tim. 4.14 A note of the particulars spoken of before pag. 62. wherein we differ from the Dutch and French Churches of this city wherabout we have had dealing with such of their Ministers as by the rest of their Eldership were deputed therevnto 1. THat the estate of the Dutch Church of Amst. is such as being one yet it meeteth in three severall places whereby it commeth to passe that the whole Church cannot come together in one the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day the presence of the members of the Church cannot certainly be knowen and finally no publick action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Which is contrary to these Scriptures 1 Cor. 12.27 11.20 23. Math. 18 17. with 1 Cor. 5 4. Act. 6.2 5. Numb 8.9 Act. 20.28 2. They baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreover they haue not care as of meÌ„bers neyther admit their pareÌ„ts to the Lords Supper Gen. 17.7 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 7.14 Exod. 12.48 with 2 Chron. 30.6 c. Numb 9.13 Hos. 2.2.4 with Rev. 17.1 Ezech. 16.59 c. 3. In the publick worship of God they have devised vse an other forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a book certaine prayers invented and imposed by man Exod. 20.4.5 and 30.9 with Psal. 141.2 and Rev. 8.3 Lev. 10.1 Esa. 29.13 with Math. 15.9 Rom. 8.26 Eph. 4.8 1 Pet. 2.5 4. That rule and commaundement of Christ 18.15.16.17 they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be observed among them 5. They worship God in the Idol-temples of Antichrist Exod. 20.4 with Deut. 12.2.3 2 18.11.12 c. 6 The Ministers have their set maintenance after an other maner then Christ hath ordeined 1 Cor. 9.14 And that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether popish or other whatsoever might be mainteyned 7. Their Elders chaunge yearely and do not continew in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the primitive Churches Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act 20.17.28 1 5.1.2 3.4 See also Numb 8.24 c. 8. They celebrate Mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration whereas it is in the nature of it meerly civill Ruth 4. chap. Heb. 13.4 1 Cor. 7.2 9. They vse a new censure of SuspensioÌ„ which Christ hath not appointed Math. 28.20 Gal. 3.15 2 Tim. 3.16.17 10. They observe dayes and tymes consecrating certyan dayes in the yeare to the Nativity Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Exod. 20. Commaundement 2. 4. Rev. 1.10 1 Cor. 10.1 â— Act. 20.7 Col. 2.16.17 Esa 66.23 Gal. 4.10.11 11. They receive vnrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan 1 Cor. 5.5 1 Tim. 1.20 About this matter we had dealing with them divers tymes heretofore And we desired that knowledg thereof might by themselves be giveÌ„ to the whole body of their Church or that they would take order that it might be done by vs. But they refused both Whereabout we had afterward some further dealing with them In which time divers messages and answers passed between vs. Which we had thought here to have inserted but now think good for the present to forbeare them Wishing rather that they might be buried amoÌ„g themselves by amendement hereafter then that we should be constreyned eyther by themselves or others as we are already too much provoked to publish them to the world for the further manifestation and clearing of our cause and maner of dealing with them The cautions spoken of before pag. 34. 68. concerning the question following Question Whether such as sometimes have fallen from the truth may afterward by the Church be taken into office Answer We take it not to be meet without these and the like cautious viz. FIrst that there be due consideration had both of the nature of the thing and of the quality of the persons and also of the estate of the Church For the nature of the thing 1. Whether it be from the trueth to the
Idolatry of the heathen or to some false Christian worship And here further whether to the Papists Anabaptists Lutherans or other Protestants professing reformation in sundry things those of great moment c. 2. Whether at the first appearing receiving of the truth or when the adversaries haue ben soundly throughly convinced 3. Whether in dispersion and absence from the Church or living and remayning with it 4. Whether drawen circumvented overcome by others as Aharon and some of the Galatians Exod. 32.1.23.35 Gal. 1.6 or drawing intising seducing of others as they of whom we read Ezech. 44.12 Deut. 13.5.6.12.13 Such as now also be they which publish writings against the trueth the Church c. 5. Whether they did voluntarily yeeld of themselves or fainted being broken with troubles and persecutions 6. Whether they joyned themselves as members or were present onely at their worship 7 Whether being ioyned as members they did partake onely or did administer also and execute their worship themselves 8. Whether slipping aside for a tyme through infirmity or falling away long resisting the meanes offred for their recovery or labouring what they could to chaunge or abolish the true religion worship of God 9. Lastly whether before or after the Church hath discussed and agreed what to do in this matter For the quality of the persons 1. Whether they were in office before or not 2. VVhether they be fit for office or not Els what blot should they beare in this behalf who for their sundry defects are altogether vnfit therefore never to be taken into office though they never had fallen from the trueth As they of Aharons seed who had a blemish in their body might never be Priests though they did neuer fall to Idolatry Lev. 21.17 c. For the estate of the Church 1. VVhether it were but newly and weakly entred into the faith and way of Christ or had ben long and well established therein 2. VVhether as yet it were vnsetled and tossed hither and thither to and fro or were setled and well together 3. Whether it haue great and present need of some to be taken into office 4. VVhether it have others in all respects as fit to be chosen As Paul when he refused Iohn Mark had Silas whome he chose to take with him Act. 15.25.26.27.32.38.40 Secondly that the Church do well know or trie such as have so fallē afore they do afterward entertayn them into office As Paul may be noted to haue done with Mark whom yet Barnabas did sooner receive as being his sisters sonne well knowen vnto him before Col. 4.10 2 Tim. 4.11 with Act. 15.38.39 Finally that none be contentious but that all of vs duly considering the former cautions and the like we take the fittest whom God in this estate of the Church doth offer endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace that we may with love and comfort proceed in that wherevnto we are come to the prayse of God and to the further building vpholding of the whole Church of all the members thereof in the trueth of the Gospell of Iesus Christ. 1 Cor. 11.16 Ephe. 4.2.3 Phil. 3.15.16 Gal. 6.16 This for the present so to be mynded observed as if others shall at any tyme shew vs better from the word of God we be alway ready to receive it in the Lord. An Answer to the Reasons alledged to prove the vse of the Lords prayer as a Prayer Objection 1. AN expresse commaundement neither contrary to nature nor analogie of Faith and agreable also to the drift and tenour of the place ought litterally to be vnderstood and obeyed But this Math. 6.9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say Our Father c. is such an expresse cōmaundement c. Ergo It is also so to be vnderstood and vsed Answer 1. This reason was alledged before Where see what is answered vnto it pag. 30. 2. The Assumption or second part of the reason is but barely affirmed not proved at all 3. How is it agreable to the nature of prayer and analogy of faith that one man or Church at any time should so pray as asking all things that ever any in the world haue needed or shall need vpon any occasion whatsoever Or that we now should offer such prayer and worship vnto God as we cannot have assurance by the Scriptures that ever the Apostles or other Christians approved of God did so vse at any time Or to keep alwayes a set forme of words for our prayer to God 4. How is it agreable to the drift and tenour of the place that Christ did so commaund it to be vsed as he pretendeth 1. For then it should be sinne to pray at any time and not to say it seing Christ hath thus given his commaundement concerning it Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. When ye pray say Our father c. 2. And thus also we should be bound to say it twise over together at everie time we vse it because Mathew and Luke in some words and clauses recorded it diversly And who can say we ought to vse the words of the one more then of the other 3. But both the cōmaundement it self and the circumstances about it noted in the Evangelists shew it to be given for a rule of prayer and therefore so to vse it is that which is agreable to the tenour and drift of the place As we haue heretofore shewed in divers Treatises yet vnanswered 5. By literall vnderstanding of Christs words in the same sermon do the Anabaptists gather that it is vnlawfull for Christiās to take an oth to go to warre to beare Magistracy c. pleading the expresse words and commaundement of Christ. Math. 5.34.39 c. with many other pretences which they have thereabout Shall we therefore admit of their errors or vnderstand those Scriptures as they would have vs Not to speak of other as expresse speaches or any collections thereabout As Mat. 6.17 Ioh. 13.5.12.14.15 Objection 2. 2. If Christ had taught onely to pray to this effect then had he taught nothing but that which Iohns Disciples all the faithfull practised before for the Prayers of the Saints as of Salomon Nehemiah Daniel were to that effect before Answer 1. What if all this be graunted What would follow therevpon Doth not christ in the same sermō of his teach the very same things that Moses in effect had taught before But now by reason of the false gloses of the Pharisees he explaned them according to their true meaning Math. 5.17 c. 2. In like maner there being great abuse about prayer as is particularlie noted by Mathew Christ sheweth them how to vse it aright Math. 6.5.6.7 c. 3. If he meane that the prayers of the holy men in former tymes were of such things as here be cōprised it is true that they thē prayed to this
written in particular that they said Our father which art in heaven c. there were some proportion in his maner of reason which now is not Besides the Apostles and Evangelists themselves recording the institution and vse of the Lords supper observe not the same words alike yet all of them agree in the same matter and substance Mat. 26.26.27.28 Mark 14.22.23.24 Luk. 22.19.20 1 Cor. 11.24.25 And why should we not think likewise of their administration of Baptismâ— that it was according to thâ— coÌ„maundement of Christ though the same particular words be not rehearsed Or how can any make question of it when it is recorded that they baptised not in their owne name but in the Name of the Lord Act. 2 38.41 10.48 Rom. 6 3. 1 Cor. 1.13.15 Gal. 3.27 with Mat. 28.19 And so by their example have taught vs how to vnderstand and vsâ— these things aright Exception 3. 3. It is the Anabaptists reasoning against childrens baptisme asking for an example when otherwise there is sufficient warrant so to do yet are their Pretences as good or better then Mr Iohnsons in refusing obedience to our Lords commaundement for want of an example Answer A childish collection froÌ„ the Anabaptists errour about childrenâ— baptisme How often shall we speak it that other sufficient warrant from the Scriptures is as good as a thousand examples And why will he needs shew himself to be like the Anabaptists who would bring in a worship of God for which there cannot be shewed sufficient warrant eyther by precept or by example or sound collection from the Scriptures and so by consequence in tyme deprive the Church of that true worship of God which we are taught both by commaundement and by example and by vnanswerable reasons drawen out of the word of God Wherein the very experience of former tymes so extreemly corrupted in this exercise of prayer might and ought to teach vs to be more carefull For administring the seale of Gods covenant and sacrament of iâ—itiation consequently of Baptisme vnto children being the seed of the faithfull we have both precept example and vndeniable reasons out of the word of God which I will not here stand to relate If our reasons towching the vse of the forme of Prayer spoken of be so weak as he pretendeth why did he not vndertake to answer them but chuse rather to insist vpoÌ„ the Pretences which now he hath purposelie published concerning that Argument And why will he never leave begging of that which he should prove that i◠〈◊〉 our Lords commaundement to say over the very words prescribed Mat. 6. â— Luk 11. for our prayer vnto God Exception 4. 4. The Prayers mencioned in the new Testament are such as 〈◊〉 powred forth vpon speciall occasion as Act. 4.24 Ioh. 17. Answer An absurd pretence and such as wherein he is against himself yeelding that the Lords prayer is not to be vsed vpon speciall occasion or els he speaketh nothing to the purpose And if it teach vs not how to pray vpoÌ„ speciall occasion how is it a perfect directioÌ„ Or if it do yet be not in such case to be vsed how plain is it that Christs meaning the Apostles vnderstanding of it was such as not to prescribe it for our prayer but for our instruction and direction therein Againe Christ saith When ye pray say Our father c. therefore also vpon speciall occasion if that were his meaning as he would perswade Not to speak how themselves commonly hold and give out that it is such as is fit to be vsed at all tymes and for all occasions So well they agree together But why doth he cite here Ioh. 17. wherein Christs prayer a little before his death is mentioned Is it to shew that though Christ did not then vse it praying vpon speciall occasion yet at other times he did If this bâ— his intendement who will believe him that Christ who had no sinn could aske forgivenes of sinne as in that forme of prayer is prescribed If this be not his meaning to what purpose is that Scripture alledged vnles it be to reason against himself to shew still his owne foolishnes Exception 5. 5 Let them shew me an example where ever the Apostles prayed before their Sermons if they can Answer 1. Have they not read what is written of the Apostles Act. 6.4 how they said to the brethren at Ierusalem Look ye out men whom we may appoint to this busines of the Deacons office And we will give our selves continually to prayer and to the ministration of the word Nor how the Apostle Paul gave direction concerning publick prayer when he wrote to the Churches and to Timothee about publik doctrine whether it were in propheticall or ministeriall vse of the word of God 1 Cor. 11.4 and 14. chap. 1 Tim. 1. and 2. chap. Or when Paul taught Timothee that the food of the body is to be sanctified vnto vs by prayer should he not think likewise of the food of the soule 2. And what though the particular circuÌ„stance of time before or after be not set down Or that the Apostles having to deale with severall sorts of persons occasions did diversly cary themselves according therevnto 3. Or doth it not ly vpon the Ministers in publik to be aswell the mouth of the Church vnto God in prayer as to be the mouth of God to the Church in doctrine Or should we think that the Apostles did not carefully performe the whole worke of the Ministery committed vnto them 4. Finally let these men shew vs an example in the Apostles or Primitive Churches where ever they said their prayers over by tote or vsed a book of Common prayer among them or read any prayers at all for their prayer to God or had Archbishops Lordbishops Archdeacons Priests Parsons Vicars c. eyther for vse of prayer or for any other service Ministery or government of the Churches of Christ. Finis Gen. 25.33.34 Heb. 12.16 Whites Discov pag. 4. Ignorance * Mr Sedg to Mr Pow. Falsehood Mr â—â— Violence Whites Discov pag. 20. Whites Discov pag. 6. Pro. 26.26 Prov. 18.17 Pro. 26.5 Prov. 26.4 Prov. 18.2 Micah 7.8.9.10 (a) Wh. Discovery pag. 5· * Act. 24.5 28.22 Mat. 18.15 17.18.22 Luke 17.4 1 Cor. 5.1.4.5.11.12.13 Esa. 16.4 Psal. 103.6 Psal. 9.18 * Besides the Ministery of the vvord * Since altered as himself knoweth b And this also with consent of the Church then signified c Ansvv. to Mr A. H. pag. 62. * To I.L. in his ovvn hearing d Ansvv. to Mr H. Ia. p. 17 4. * Tremell and Iun. on Exod. 2.23 1 Cor. 1â— Pro. 12.13 * Lib. de Monogam Tertul. lib. de Orat. * Tertull. Lib. de orat a Lib. de praescript aduersus haeret b Lib. de virgin veland Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. * pag 23. Mr R. Ia. * Whites disco p. 7. in the margent A.P. At Northampton ‡ Whites discov pag 26. Contra Marcion lib. 4. c. 5. Lib. de Orat ‡ Yet resting with peace in their difference of iudgment therabout * 1 Cor. 6.16 * Mat. 19. †1 Cor. 6.9.11 ‡ Of this I think my self haue had speach with this Th. White heretofore howsoever now he write as if he had never heard it of any of vs. A true descript of a visible Church * Num. 12.3 Ps. 106.33 Deut. 5.32 1 Tim. 5.21 Mat. 10.37 †The Prelate of Lond. c. Gen. 29. 30. 31. 34. Gen. 34. 35. 37. 38. chap. Epist. to he Corinhians 2 Cor. 11.13.14.15 Answ. to Mr H. I. p. 14. c. Pro. 11 9 Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. And that we might would if he did thus W. Simson Apologie Discovery RefutatioÌ„ Questions Answer to Mr H. c. 1 Cor. 10.18 Act. 15. Rom. 14. Phil. 3.16 A Discourse of certaine troubles excom c. Confess with Mr Iun. letters Pag. 54. Nehem. 6.8 Prov. 24.28 ‡ In these countreyes being from the Church vpon occasion †But afterward I did speak more to him here about as he may remeÌ„ber ‡ Smyrnâ— Philadelphia c. †Corinth Galat. Pergamuâ— c. And these were in deed the causes that made vs think more and otherwise of this matter theÌ„ we had done Which we also shewed in the Church ‡ 2 Tim. 1.5 and 3.14.15 and 1 Tim. 4.6.12 with Act. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. chap. †Ephe. 4.11 Rom. 12.7 Aâ—t 5.29 Prov. 26.2 Psal. 109.17.18 Numb 16. Gen. 9.29.27 †Whites Discov p. 24. Prov. 11.21 Eccles. 10.12.13 * Aswell those that have fallen as the rest * Mat. 6.9 ‡ Apologie Discovery Questions Answ to Mr H. c. See also Iob 22.17 Esa. 44.17 Ier. 2.27 Hab. 2.19 1 Cor. 11.20 c. Gen. 5. 2 Tim. 4.4.5
tyme to tyme while we live here on earth If then this saying of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a false way of worshipping God it was excluded by their calling and fellowship in the Gospell howsoever they fell into the vse of it If it be not a false way then were it but our errour so to think which we were also to corrrect the description notwithstanding still should stand good Now what our judgement is concerning the right vse of that forme of prayer together with our reasons out of the Scripture thereabout we haue often shewed and published heretofore in divers treatises which till they be answered and refuted I shall not need here to repeat them or to insist any further vpon that matter Onely thus much now If the vsing of the Lords prayer as a prayer be a part of the worship of God appointed by Christ then did the Apostles in the planting of the Primitive Churches teach them so to vse it For they were inioyned by Christ to teach whatsoever he commaunded them and so they did Mat. 28.20 with Act. 2.42 and 4.24 31. and 20.27 1 Cor. 11.23 But that they taught to vse it thus none can shew eyther in their Acts or in their Epistles And Tertullian saith if they regard his testimony Scriptura negat quod non notat The Scripture denyeth that which it noteth not This man therefore and such as do so hold that the Lords prayer is to be vsed as a prayer are bound to shew by the Scriptures that the Apostles did teach the first Churches thus to vse it vnles they would with the Papists argue the Scripture of imperfection or the Apostles of vnfaithfulnes 3. The distinction of faulty and false is here also to be observed True Churches may be faulty in sundry things as those of Asia Corinth c. and yet not straightway therefore be false Churches True Prophets may be faulty in divers things as Ieremiah Ionah c. and yet they be no false Prophets True worshippers of God may be faulty in their worship many wayes as may be seen in Corinth Colosse c. and yet not therefore be false worshippers By which examples also may appeare both what difference is between false and faulty and how needfull it is alwayes in these cases to be duly regarded 4. His proof that the Lords prayer was vsed as a Prayer from the Apostles age is out of Tertullian whose words be these Quoniam Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatuÌ„ seorsum post traditam orandi disciplinam Petite inquit accipietis sunt quae petantur pro circumstantia cuiusque praemissa legitima ordinaria oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extriusecus petitiones Cum memoria tamen praeceptorum ne quantum a praeceptis tantum ab auribus Dei longè simus Because the Lord that seeth mans necessities did apart after the doctrine of prayer delivered say Ask ye shall receive and there be things to be asked according to the circumstance of every one the lawfull and ordinary prayer being premised as a foundation we may for the desires that fall out we may from without it build therevpon our petitions yet with remeÌ„brance of the things coÌ„maunded least we be as far froÌ„ the eares of the Lord as from his commaundements Towching this testimony if it were a thing to be stood vpon in this case many things might be excepted 1. Tertullian lived about 200 yeares after the Apostles dayes 2. Many things were held lawfull ordinarily vsed in his tyme which were not at all in the Apostles dayes As prayer with cloakes put off and hands washed signing with the crosse and annoynting with oyle after Baptisme Godfathers and Godmothers mixing of water with wine in the Lords supper oblations for the dead Lenten fast holy water c. 3. He also followed was infected with divers errors which 〈…〉 judgement even in his owne tyme reproved and rejected As the Iewish errour of the Chiliastes that the godly shall haue a pleasant life on earth a thousand yeares before the end of the world Also that the Angels fell for lust of women That Noah Abraham and others of those tymes were righteous by the righteousnes of the Law of nature Whither also may be referred his errors about Freewill Satisfaction for sinnes superstitious Fasts heresies of Montanus c. Not to speak how from his exposition of the Lords Prayer even in this book here alledged the Papists would gather proof for their heresie of Transubstantiation and the Lutherans of Consubstantiation Againe he disallowed sundry things which were approued theÌ„ by others according to the truth As the Baptisme of children second mariages fleing in tyme of persecution c. 4. But if they think there be such weight in TertulliaÌ„s testimony why do they theÌ„ at their preaching vse the Lords prayer after their owne prayers when as Tertullian saith it vvas first premised as a foundation vvherevpon petitions from out of it might be built Which admitting the vse of it yet sheweth a quite different vsing of it then from that which now is had And let it here be noted by the way that Tertullian doth often in that book call it a forme doctrine of prayer and sheweth that Christ hath not tyed vs to the vse of those words but thereon to build our petitions as vpon a foundation according to the need occasion of euery one following his precepts Why also do they not hearâ—en to Tertullian when in the same book he saith Such things are iustly to be charged with vanity as are done without authority of any precept eyther of the Lord or of the Apostles And when other where he saith The Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the discipline they received of Christ And that no continuance of times or supportation of persons can preiudice the truth If they wil belieue TertulliaÌ„ their book of coÌ„mon prayer their Prelacy Priesthood crosse surplice and the like reteyned among them may justly be charged with vanity as being never appoynted by the Lord or his Apostles Neither can al their gloses perswade that ever they came from Christ seing the Apostles did not deliver them to the nations as appeareth by their writings Nor is it material whatsoever continuance of tymes they pretend or supportation of persons they may have None can preiudice the truth as Tertullian sayth And for the poynt in hand except they can shew that the Apostles did teach to vse the Lords prayer as a prayer it is neither the continuance of tymes nor the supportation of any persons be they Old writers or Churches that can be admitted for a sufficient warrant even by Tertullians owne testimonie For the Churches that now are we also refer it to our dealing with them In our writings wee haue often signified our esteeming of them for true Churches and in our walking towards