by writing to be thrust upon the publique assemblies you are wide and now iustifie homilies insteed of preaching and written praiers instead of praying shew your warrant The CHVRCHES power is limited by the word G. GIFFORD When the prayers be framed and composed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scripture and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brought in which God hath not commanded J. GREENWOOD THis might have come in before your raylings but you sawe it was too silly where is that commaundement of God that all mens writinges in forme of prayer agreable to the Scriptures should be brought into the publique assemblies your bare worde is not enough to put me to silence And when you have gott them into the Church you must prove that God hath commaunded they should be read for praier Where I said our Sauiour Christ never vsed the wordes when he praied in that forme of praier he gave to his Disciples nether commaunded his Disciples to say over these wordes nether do we reade that ever his Apostles did use them or enforced others to vse anie certaine number of wordes you say I spake vntrulie For say you the Disciples desired him to reach them to pray as Iohn taught his Disciples and he commanded them when you pray say Our Father etc. Luke 11. and S. Math. an Apostle hath deliuered the same to the whole Church I answer I have never heard that Iohn Baptist taught his Disciples to say over certeyne wordes nether can it be gathered by our Sauiour Christes answere for he answeared not alwaies the verie demaunde according to their wordes but thereupon tooke occasion to instruct them as the sawe neede And I have proved by the 6. of Math. that our Saviour did not commaunde them to say over the very wordes when they prayd for the word Houtos in Mathew signifieth after this maner Againe that Math. recordeth not the very number or the very same wordes that Luke doth And now I reason thus if Christ had commaunded those very wordes to be said over in praying then we must alwaies when we pray say over those wordes for in Math. 6. he saith when you pray pray thus Our Father etc. The etc. The word when sheweth that this commaundement is to be observed at all tymes And then the Apostles sinned in praying other wordes Acts. 4.24.25 Furder it being the most summary forme of praier most ample most perfect etc. if those wordes were commaunded to be said over then we ought not to vse any others for he is accursed that bringeth not the best offrings he hath Malach 1.14 By all these it is euident that our Saviour nor his Evangelists tyed no man to the very wordes saying over but according to that forme and those instructions and now leave of your popish dreames Yet you would make men belive I reasoned thus that the Apostles did not nether our Saviour himself or anie that we reade of vse these wordes in praier therfore they did not use it Nay I said they did not vse these verie wordes in their praiers but vsed other wordes according to their particular wants as our Saviour in the 17. of Iohn is said to do therfore he nether vsed nor commaunded others to say over those wordes And so I may well cōclude that to impose certaine wordes to be read or said by roate for praying vpon the Church especiallie mens writings is an intollorable pride even a setting of men in the place of God Also that to vse them or bowe downe vnto them in that order is sinne and a breach of Gods lawe The fourth Argument Because true prayer must be of faith vttered with heart and lively voice it is presumptuous ignorance to bring a booke to speake for vs vnto God c. The fift Argument To worship the true God after an other maner then he hath taught is Idolatrie But he Commaundeth vs to come vnto him heavie loaden with contrite hearts to cry unto him for our wantes c. Therfore we may not vse reading of a dead letter instead of powring fourth out petitions The Sixt Argument We must strive in praier with continuance c. But we cannot strive in praier and be importunate with continuance reading vpon a booke Therfore we must not reade when we should pray G. GIFFORD These 3. I ioyned togeather as having no weight you say I answeare by plaine contradiction without Scripture c. And after wardes is not my bare deniall as good as you bare affirmation c. I. GREENWOOD STay your selves and wonder they are blind and make blind Is ther anie doctrine more spirituall anie more inculcated by the holy Ghost thē this accesse vnto God in the mediation of Christ by his owne spirit to make our mindes knowne vnto God to offer vp the fruits of his owne spirit in vs and fetch encrease from him by this secreat worke of true inuocation with the heart and voice This colloquie with the high maiestie of God is it a matter of no weight to learne to discerne between diverse exercises of the spirit and to exercise his graces aright according to his will Right is it said the wisedome of God is foolishnes to the naturall man But Mr GIFFORD wil say he graunteth the propositious true and weightie maters it is the Assumptions that be so frivolous as he said a litle after ridiculous wel let them he weyed 1. That reading instead of praying is not a powring fourth of the heart by lively voyce 2. That it is a quenching of the spirit to reade an other mans wordes vpon a booke in the very action of powring fourth our heart as we pretend 3. That it is not an vnburdening of a contrite heart by faith but an ignorant action to reade for praying 4. That we cannot strive in praier continue in praier be importunate etc. by reading vpon a booke These are matters he thinketh of so litle weight the bare deniall and contradiction wherof he holdeth of such credit that it must suffice for answere seing he saith he hath before proved the vse of reading See here he caleth it the vse of reading He could not say that reading is praying nether that these two exercises of our Faith can be vsed both in one instant as one action I have shewed that proseuche anagnosis praying and reading are divers actions both of the minde and body let the reader consider what weight then this matter is of to talk with the living God But for the benefit of such as have grace to savour the things that are of God I will a litle illustrate the Assumptions at least some of them 1. That it is a quenching of the spirit to reade an other mans wordes vpon a booke when I should powre fourth mine owne heart the word itself must be considered the Apostle commaundeth saying 1. Thessaloniaus 5.19 extinguish ye not the spirit Now to suppresse and leaue vnvttered the passions of our owne heart by the worke
or innouating anie part of the same as is called a commaundement to be kept without spott till the appearing of our Lorde Iesus Christ Nowe to make an other leiturgie is to lay other foundation and to make an other Gospell not that ther is an other Gospell but that there are some willing to pervert the Gospell of Christ Then your leiturgies to which you are sworne and by which you administer being as you cannot denie an other leiturgie then Christes Testament is plainely an other Gospell for the Canons and rules you prescribe and impose are such as he hath not prescribed or commaunded or at the best a transforming of his ordinances Now if you should say you do nothing but make laws of particular thinges collected from the scriptures and with that collour impose your leiturgies we have shewed the vnlawfullnes of bringing anie mans writinges as rules into the Church For the explaining of the whole will of Christ so far as is meet for vs he hath given vs his officers to administer according to his liturgie by liuely voyce and due execution of all things by one rule Making then a newe litourgia you must also make a new ministerie for Christes ministerie cannot administer after a counterfeit liturgie And that Antichrist was the cheif Innouator of this liturgie howsoever the thing might be long a working by litle litle it is plaine when he is called Antikeimenos that opposite man or laier of an other foundation Now we must not make all liturgies beside the Testam. of like wickedness or blasphemie But how neere the most heynousest yours approach let him that answereth the other part of your booke witnesse vnto me Nowe where I said you had confessed that you never read in the Scriptures any warrant to reade praiers vnto God you say now I knowe I have falsified your wordes Surely it would be knowen for I would not willinglie so doe your wordes you say were these to your remembrance God never commaunded a man to reade praier vpon the booke Is not this the same that I saye you confesse ther is no warrant for reading prayer is ther anie thing warranted in his worship that he hath not commaunded Then you aske me if I will gather thus is it not expresse commaunded therfore it is not warranted No you forgot the worde expressie to help your self to saye vnsaye I gathered that because you said absolutely it was not commaunded therfore it was not warranted Here you come againe to shewe your ignorance in the scriptures to say ther is not anie exprese commaundement to vse praier before or after doctrine And remember you here will have it a commaundement and said before you hold it not of necessitie G. GIFFORD There would sundry inconveniences growe for want of a Lyturgie or prescript formes of publique praiers I. GREENWOOD STil I must put you in minde of the wisedome of that gouernour of his house the builder beginner and finisher of our Faith Christ Iesus he forsawe what inconvenience would haue growne if either men or Angells should make newe liturgies or other formes of praier then he hath prescribed for the publique assemblies Here therfore you deeply chardge him not to have donne all thinges that were needful in not prescribing you more formes thē he hath donne or not suffered learned divines to impose their owne writinges vnto God But see what the Scripture saith who hath knowen the mynde of the Lord that he might instruct him Againe wher is the wise where the Scribe where the disputer of this world hath not God made the wisedome of this world foolishnes To put you out of doubt then that we neede not any newe liturgie nor anie mens writinges to be brought into the publique assemblies the Holie Ghost saith 2. Timot. 3.16 The whole Scripture is Theopneustos inspired of God and profitable vnto doctrine vnto reproof vnto correction vnto erudition which is in righteousnes that the man of God may be absolute perfect fully furnished vnto everie good worcke Nowe if onelye the Scriptures be Theopnestos and sufficient to make Gods childrē absolutely perfect even fully furnished to every good work what blasphemie is it to say sundrie inconvenience would growe if mens writinges were not imposed vpon the publique assemblies And in this your wisedome let us see what is the chiefest inconveniency that would growe You say everye franticke spirit of which sort ther be manie in the ministerie would not only be unlike themselves but varie from others I answered and still doe that the Papists have not so weake a reason for their Idolatrous Liturgies Rubricks and Canons You say it appeareth by all my Arguments how meete a man I am to judge the weight of reasons alleadged by the Papists and others well I am weake and you strong foolish you wise yet might you have shewed me a weaker reason which they alleadge for their constitutions ecclesiasticall as they cal thē But my chief answere was wherby you might have beene satisfied that if it were but in Parases the ministerie should differ it is no sufficient cause to ordeine liturgies And if they offend in matter of doctrine or conversation the censure of the Church should help that The first you graunt the second also you confesse that the Church should censure such thinges But you say ther are sundry other differences in administration of publique praiers Sacraments as in order and ceremonies which the Ch. is is to have regard of and not to leave arbitrarie All other ceremonies in Gods worship then Christ and his Apostles have prescribed us are diabolicall and not Apostolicall Then for all thinges donne in the Church in those publique actions the offenders must be admonished if they trasgresse the rules of the word And for the others you speake of you meane circumstances of time place kneeling sitting standing c. of them there can be no furder lawes then Christ hath prescribed that all things be donnne to edifying in comelynes and decency c. of these to set particular lawes were to breake the lawe of God which leaveth them in the Churches liberty as neede requireth to the glorie of God In these thinges to doe anie thing contrarie to the generall rules of order edifying decencye etc. the transgressour is by those rules to be instructed admonished and censured Well here you have made a faire hand to make read prayers but a matter of order which is all the worship you have to bring in mens writings into the publique assemblies to make thē ether rules to bind the conscience and so put them in the place of Gods booke or to reade them over for praying is but a matter of order well then put them in your cornerr Capp we have enough of rules for the ordering of Christs spouse without such Babilonish ware Here you say mine experience is not so great as my boldness I passe not to be judged of you it is not like that the enchaunters of
things in the Lorde and if they commaund vs anie thing contrary to the lawe of God we then patientlie suffer without resistance or rebellious thoughtes The freedome then we have to speake of here which Christ had purchased for vs is first that triumphe ouer Hell Deathe and damnation through the merites of Christ apprehended by faith wayted for in hope Rom. 8. Secondly that because we were sonnes by election he giveth vs the spirit of adoption and sanctification whereby we mortifie the fleshe have power and dominion over sinne that it shall never reigne in vs more vnto condemnation repēting dayly of our trespasses craving pardon for our hidden sinnes and secret faultes Thirdly we are through the same spirit and worde of trueth delivered from all subiection of Antichist of the false Church false ministerie false government etc. And they that have not this fredome are not by outward profession the servauntes of Christ Furder we have freedom from all traditious of men that seing we are bought with a price we are no longer servants of men to be in bondage to anie beggarly rudimentes or devises of men but in all peaceable manner to worship and serve God within the limites of our callings according to the word of God as it is reuealed vnto vs We have freedome to speake the trueth with all boldnes though all men should inhibite vs we would not haue the doctrine limited stinted bought and sould for Iewish tythes or mercenarie stipendes We have freedome to separate from such false Prophets as yourself to come out of Babel etc. And in the true Church to reprove and withstand anie sinne or traditions of men in due order only to be guided governed by Christes lawes and ordinances In all this I trust you shall not find any Anabaptistrie in the freedom we professe this is the truth of the Gospell wherby we are made free Thus then we still affirme that they which stand in open known bondage to sinne are the servants of sinne and not of Christ till they repent by outward profession Furder that all which stand members of your parish assemblies stand not members of CHRIST by outward profession but in bondage to a false and Antichristian ministery government worship etc. and the bond woeman and her sonne must be cast out Furder for all liturgies and other devises of men besides the canonicall Scriptures and lively graces of his Spirit we hold they ought not to be brought into the publique assemblies nor imposed vpon mens conscience But if anie will write such or reade such let it be for their private vse as all other mens writtings we despise not any directions by word or writting that may furder vs anie way to the practize of Gods ordinances yet may they nether be imposed vpon mens consciences not be made a part of Gods worship The Lord therfore that hath thus far far fourth discouered the chaff and mift of Antichrist delusions euen to babes and sucklings publish the glorious light of his blessed Gospel that the peopel may see the counterfeit iuglinges of all such false prophets and come out from amongst them that you may be ashamed of your execrapale wares and forsake your Romish Priesthoode and give glory to God that yet offereth grace Amen Christs vnworthie witnes for the truth of his Gospell IOHN GREENWOOD 9 Other Arguments to prove that all set formes of prayer to be used for prayer are unlawfull 1. WE finde that all the holy men of God according to their present need occasion used to pray in the spirit through the helpe of the Holy Ghost which God hath shed in the hearts of all his Children without reading or saying by rote any nūber of words and for this we have plentifull Examples in Abraham Isaak Iacob c. 2. Not any prescript Leiturgy can possibly be an ordinance of Christ because the Church without it may perfectly and entirely worship God I say performe all the parts of holy and spirituall worship this appeares by the constant and generall practice of all the primitive Churches who truly worshipped the Lord many yeares before any such read stinted service was devised or imposed 3. This external meanes and manner of worshipping God in prayer is no where found in the written word by the prescript whereof he is to be worshipped whatsoever the Iewes Fable of Ezra or the Papists of S. Iames or S. Peter Yea I doe to the contrarie affirme that it did not seem good to the Apostles the last penmen of the Holy Ghost that any certaine formes should be repeated or read out of a prayer booke For if it had they would have given commandment to the Churches for the practice thereof 4. Reading of prayer in the act of prayer is directly contrary to that act and nature of prayer For in prayer we doe poure out matter to weet the holy conceptions of our minde from within to without that is from the heart to God On the contrarie in reading we doe receive and admitt matter from without to within that is from the booke into our heart Ergo c. 5. The stinted and devised formes doe quench the spirit of prayer and this appeares in that men are so strictly tyed unto them as till they stint be out the spirit which the Lord gives his children may not suggest one thought or word otherwise Neither when that is out any more then what next followes in the prescribed prayers and this is contrary to 1 Cor. 12 7. 6. We finde it promised that under the Gospell the spirit should be plentifully poured out which he dayly graciously performeth in furnishing his children with spiritual gifts who accordinglie pray or at least all may not with prescript words but with such as the spirit gives them utterance God preparing their heart and bending his eare 7. The truth brings forth no absurditie but this doth For Example the spirit sayth the Apostle speaking of all Christians helpeth our infirmities for we know not what to pray as we ought Yes Paul with your leave right well for we have in our Leiturgie what wee ought to pray word for word and these things we can aske whether the spirit be present or no 8. As it were a ridiculous thing for a Child when he should aske of his Father bread fish or any other thing to read it to him out of a paper So is it for the Children of God to read unto God their Requests even a most foolish and riduculous thing 9. As the reasons published to the world against the reading of the Apocrypha bookes in Churches will serve as much and as well to condemne all devised and imposed formes of prayer So likewise the arguments brought against kneeling before the bread and wine in the act of receiving will prove that to fall downe before the common prayer booke is every way as superstitious sinfull a thing And so much the reader shall finde certaine if he will indifferently compare the things together FINIS Rom. 8.26 Gal 4.6 2. cor. 4.13 Psalm 51 17 Psalm 42 43. I. Sam. 1 17 Psal. 119 Rev. 2. 11. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Other foundatiō can no mā laye c. Gal. 3. 15 Heb. 2 3 4. 9. 14 Mat. 5. 18. 2 Timot. 3 15. 16. 17 Rev. 22. 18. 19. 2. Pet. 1. 20. 1 Cor. 12 7. Iam. 4.14 Rom 8.7 and 11 34.1 Cor. 2.16 3.19 1 Tim. 4. 5. Act. 16.13.13 Tim. 2.1 34 5. Gal. 1.8.9 Rev. 22.18.19.2 Tim. 1.13 1 Tim. 6 14 1 Cor 2.16 and 2 20. Mr. Barrowes refutation discovery etc. Rev. 24 9 10.11.12 Esa. 52.11 Ierem. 51 6 45. Mat. 116 Rom. 8.26
to the Apostles namely to use that prescript forme of prayer as the perfect patterne direction to all mens true prayers But you I trust will make difference betwixt a forme to all prayers and praying or prayer And here you vehemently urge me to answeare you before I see you conclude any thing from the place and so I should runne into follie to answeare a matter before I heare it In your first entrance of this discourse you were rounde in your Syllogismes by two at once to wraft my wordes and can find none for your self Yt seemes your conscience is witnes the matter would not hang together And me thinkes you had never more neede to have shewed what you would drawe from this place Luke 11. Seing I either mistooke you the last time or els you make a simple collection which was this Christ said to his Disciples when you pray say Our Father and not when you meditate say Our Father Now what would you conclude of this except as I said that Christ would not have them meditate that Scripture But this I perceave was not your meaning now I partlie thinke your Argument should be if the sworde were not broken in the sheath thus Christ commaunded his Disciples when they prayde to say Our Father c. therefore to be tyed to reade over or say by roate certaine wordes is lawfull praying For the first that our Saviour Christ tyed no man or commaunded none to say over those verie wordes when they prayde but to pray according to that form after that manner as Math. 6. I manifested in my first writing I. that our Saviour did not commaunde us to use those wordes 2. that Matth. 6. doth not keepe the same wordes nor that number of wordes which Luke 11. doth 3. that he did not say read these wordes when you pray or say these wordes by roate After all which reasons slilye passed away in both your answeres you come with your bare affirmation that he commaunded those wordes to be said over by roate or reading Yea a litle after you say it is false to say that he commanded not the verie wordes to he said over when we pray And you further conclude that because Christ commaunded his Disciples to say over those wordes therefore all mens writings in the forme of praier may be brought into the publique assemblies to be read for praier being agreable to the worde To which I answere that seing no mans writings are without errour it is pernitious and blasphemous doctrine you collect First because you make mens writings of equal authority with the forme of praier which Christ hath prescribed 2. for that you give men as much liberty and authority to frame and impose their Liturgies as Christ had to set downe a forme of praier he being Lord of the house The wickednesse of which collections you shall never be able to answere And because you here urge me thereunto I will make answeare to your two places of Scripture wherwith by false interpretation you deceave the simple which taken from you your matter is nothing but cavilling The places are these Luke 11. Num 6. and because the one explanes the other and your collections the same from both I will beginne with numbers 6.32 33.34 etc. Thus shall you bless the Children of Israell saying the Lord bless thee and keep thee etc. Here you say they were commaunded to use the verie wordes prescribed in all their blessings This I say is not true for the Hebrew worde is Coh Tebaracu thus shall you blesse wher the worde Coh is an adverb of similitude as we say after this manner which cannot be to say the same but according to the same instructions This worde Coh is used throughout the Bible in this maner in all the Prophets when they say thus sayth the Lorde where the summe of their prophesies are onely recorded to us by the holy Ghost and not all the wordes Againe this blessing is used in the Psalmes and Chronicles in prayer for the people in manie other wordes Ely blessed Hanna in other wordes etc. And where in Luke 11.2 it is recorded that our Saviour Christ commaunded his Disciples when you pray say Our Father c. it is plaine by the doctrines following 4.5.6.8.11 verses that Christ tied no man to the verie wordes saying over for he teacheth them to aske their particular wants as a childe asketh breade or an egg of his Father also to importune the Lorde for our particular wants But to make this place more plaine the same holy Ghost in the 6. of Mathew 9. verse saith when you pray say thus Our Father etc. where the greek word houtos hath the same signification that the Hebrew worde Coh hath which is after this manner cannot be referred to the verie wordes saying over wher upon Mr. Calvin upon those wordes faith Noluit filius Dei prescribere quibus verbis utendum sit The Sonne of God would not prescribe what words we must use Now consider how falslie Mr Gifford hath interpreted these Scriptures to say the Priests were commaunded to use the verie wordes and that Christ commaunded to use the verie wordes As for his collections that therefore mens writings may be imposed upon publique assemblies by stint number to be prayde it is an intollerable error bringeth in all poopery Here I must call all men that reade this fruitlesse discourse to be witnes of Mr. Giffords abuse of his tongue to the defacing of Gods truth In his Epistle he proclaymed that I called all men Idolāters which you shall perceave to be his owne wordes and to that end I will breifly repeat it In my first writing I affirmed the reading imposed Liturgies by stint and limitation instead of true invocation as also all reading menswritings for praying to be idolatrie In his answere he said he could not see by what collour it could be called Idolatrie or maintayned out of Gods worde so to be but it seemes the penners of these things take every sinne against the first table of the Lawe to be Idolatrie if they doe so saith he and with all doe hold that no Idolater shal be saved then doubtlesse all are lost c. To this ignorant excursorie I answered that all false and devised worship by mans intention was Idolatrie as the first and second commandements did testifie And to admit all the breaches of the first table were not idolatrie yet reading of mens writings instead of praying must needs be idolatry seing it is a transgression of the second Commandement Further though I needed not have followed his emptie head even a cloude without water yet I proceeded to prove that no idolater could be saved but b y repentance for their knowne sinne and craving pardon with David for their hidden sinnes and secreet faults Moreover sayd I doe you thinke anie man is free from all inward and outward idolatrie seing we cannot keep one Commandement and in
publique assemblies Ephes. 2. 20. and 1 Cor. 3. Fourthlie if we might bring in anie mens writings into the publique assemblies thē all mens writings which we judge agreable to the Scriptures But this is forbidden Ecclesiastes 12. 11. 12. My proof of the first Proposition is this If anie mens writings are to be brought into the publique assemblies by Gods commaundement because they are agreable to the Scriptures as you in an other place alleadge then all that are thought agreable to the Scriptures ought of necessitie by the same commandement and if ther be no commandement then none are to be make Authentique which God hath not made Authentique For that were to set man in the place of God No mans writings cary that majestie as doth the pen of the holy Ghost No mans writinges are Cecuromenai Authentique confirmed by signes and wonders from heaven sealed by Christes blood that not one worde of title shal be vnfulfilled The Scriptures are all sufficient All men must walke by that one rule To thinke ther were not rules enough prescribed by the Lord for his house were blasphemous and papisticall Now for the explication interpretation etc. and speach vnto God in prayer God hath given giftes vnto men to pray and prophecye and ordeyned his ministery of Pastors Teachers whose lively voice is appointed to be the mouth of God vnto the people of his people vnto himself in the publique assemblies And these graces are not Apocryphall for no prophecie of the Scripture is of private interpretation idias epiluseos to euery one is given the manifestation of the spirit to proffit withal Most execelent men serve but their tyme in the publique assemblies Now J may conclude as J beganne That onely Gods holy word the lively graces of his holy Spirit are to be heard offred vp vnto in him the publique assemblies Where then in way of answere to the Minor Proposition you say you see not how our speach vnto God should be Apocrypha It answeareth not me who deny an other mans writing to be our speach in prayer unto God But c̄onvinceth your selfe by you own mouth thus True praier is not Apocrypha but all mens writings are Apocr Therefore mens writing is not true praier Here when you have nothing to say for your self you woulde make me believe that I accompt the Psalmes and the other formes of prayer in the Scripture to be Apocrypha when they be read though a litle before you confessed you had in your last writing donne me wrong therin I do accompt the reading of thé for praying to be a groffe and superstitious abuse of them yet them to be holie canonical script And here you have flatly ouerthrowen your self saying the worde Apocrypha is vsed with vs for that which is not Gods vndoubted worde vnto vs And in your last writing which should have beene your answere you said God speaketh to vs onely by the Canonicall Scriptures Now seing you would make your liturgie and devised formes of prayer helpes and instruction and yet cannot make them Canonicall or Gods vndoubted truth they must not be brought into the publique assemblie much lesse imposed by lawe vpon the consciences of all men And here remember all your Liturgies are cast out of the doore besides that you have not made in both writinges one direct answeare to this most firme Proposition which I will still leave upon you thus Onely the Canonicall Scriptures and lively voice of Gods own graces are to be brought into the publique assemblies for doctrine and prayer But mens writings are neyther Canonicall scripture nor the lively voice of Gods graces in such as he hath appointed to speake in the publique assemblies Therefore no mans writings may be brought into nor imposed upon the publique assemblies Thus might I make an ende with this vaine man considering the whole matter is proved against him all that followes being but repetitions of these former cavills but that I must cleare my self of his unconscionable slanders The Second Argument We must doe nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his worde But read prayers have no warrant in his worde Therfore read prayers are not to be used in the worship of God GEORGE GIFFORD To this I answere at the first that it is a greate audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant in the worde for read prayers When ther be sundry testimonies to warrant the same unless you will make difference betweene that which a man readeth upon a booke and that which he hath learned out of the booke Furder I said I doe not remember that ever I have read that God commaunded in the Scriptures that prayer shal be read upon a Booke c. J. GREENWOOD SEing you have indeed not answered one reason or proof I alleadged in my last writing but with must evil conscience as the handling sheweth perverted them I will leaue them to be iudged of them that shall see my writing And here seing you would not print it I will answere your cheif obiections First then you graunt that if I put difference betweene reading vpon the booke and that which he hath learned out of the booke mine Argument is founde For by your owne confession God hath not given anie Commandement for read prayer and so it hath no warrant Whervpon I gayne thus much First that they which impose read praier vpon the Church do that wherof they have no warrant in the worde and that in the high service of God then that they which reade vpon a booke for praying do that wherof they have no warrant in Gods worde wherupon al your Ministers must leave reading their stinted prayers upon the booke or els stand vnder Gods wrath all that so pray with them which wil be a fearefull reckoning if they repent not of their sinne shewed them And although our question be cheiflie concerning the reading of mens writings instead of praying yet I am content the other abuse of the Scriptures be included also though I make not both in the same height of sinne as shall appeare in my several reasons As an vnconstāt man then you in the latter end of the answere to this Argument would cal backe agayne that which you here have granted Namely that there is no Commandement to reade prayer vpon a booke for praying Of the contrary thus you reason The people of God did reade the Psalmes vpon a booke when they did singe therefore men may reade vpon a booke when they pray I deny your Argument besides that all men may see Your unstablenes in denying and affirming with one breath you now go about to make reading of prayer a Commandement thus you prove it Singing say you is a part of praier Singing may be read vpon a Booke therefore praier may be read vpon a booke Admit that Singing were a part of praier yet doth it not followe that all prayer may be read vpon a booke But you speake like
an ignorant man to say that Singing is praier seing they are twoo diuers actions exercises of our faith the one never read for the other nor said to be a part of the other through the Scriptures but are playnely distinguished I. Cor. 14.15 what is it then I wil pray with the spirit but I will pray with vnderstanding I will sing with the spirit etc. Againe if you be sad pray and if you be merye sing Psalmes prosuxomai and psalo I wil pray and I will sing are divers exercises of the faith if a man should say reading a chapter of the scripture and prophecying were alon were he not wide Even so euery part of Gods service is not praier I graunt we are every where commaunded to singe Psalmes unto God And alleadged that place of the Apostle to the Ephes. 5. 19. Speaking to your selves in Psalmes and Himnes and Spirituall songes etc. and that of the Coloss only to this end that in Psalmes singing we do not alwaies speake vnto God as in those Psalmes which are onelie instructions and prophesies in the 1. and 2. Psalmes you have not one worde spoken vnto God Againe as all reading of the praiers in the Scriptures is not praying or speaking unto God so the reading or singing of Psalmes I tooke to have beene a speaking to our selves a stirring vp of Gods graces in vs etc. But I do not now nor did not then hold it so in al Psalmes singing And where you say I purposelie left out the latter part in both places which was this Sing vnto God with a grace in your heartes the Lorde knowes I had no purpose to injurie the Scripture nor maintaine an vntruth But though wee might do those things with a grace to God in our heartes which were not properly and directlie a conversing by thought worde with him alone but one thing might have kept you from crying out heresie in that I added this that I would not stand vpon that reason but desired to knowe it furder But how vniustlie could you number this for an heresie mainteined of us al in your Epistle that we should denie that Psalmes should be songe vnto God The Lorde keepe me from such errour And a wofull phisition you are if I had bene in such an errour For the 102. Psalme I never denied but that it was a most excellent Psalme penned by Daniel or some other Prophet and given to the whole Church to be songe or read as other Psalmes in the forme of praier But you must prove that the Church did use it as you say to reade it over for praying or were commaunded so to doe This is proof enough they did not because it is a Psalme Now though the Ch. speake manie times in the singular number yet it is expressed in some other verse that it is so But now admit that you could prove that the psalmes were read insteade of or for invocation which you shall never be able to doe it doth not followe that mens writinges should be brought into the assemblies and read for praier The 6. of Numbers I have answered before From the 92. Psalme you reason thus If the psalmes and other formes of prayer in the scriptures were read or said by rote the verie forme of wordes for praying Then reading instead of or for praying Here you durst not set your assumption it was so false which should be thus But the Psalmes other formes of prayer were read for praying c. This I shewed you was verie untrue they were never commaunded so to be used nor never so used My proof was this they are given were by the holy Ghost for other uses as singing reading etc. and not commaunded anie where so to be used so that you do but cavil not having one proof for all your shameles assertions Now where I demaunded what this made for your Liturgies and reading mens writinges for praying except you would make your owne writinges of equall authoritie with the Scriptures You answere That if I denie the consequence it was lawfull to use the Psalmes therefore mens writings then I wil shut out all prayers even the praier of the Pastor See your carnall handling shufling and confounding Gods ordinances Doth it followe that because mens writinges may not be brought into the publique assemblies or there be read for praying therfore the praiers uttered by the lively voice of the Pastor should hereby be excluded this your shift was answered in the first Argument your cavils are stale you are againe convinced Touching the other matter of cunning phrases and formes of praier by roate to say over certeine number of wordes it is popish and a meere evasion and bewraieth your ignorance in prayer In this you have granted me that he which praieth not with a feeling of his present wants of his soul but saith over certaine number of wordes of custome or affectation he is an hiprocrite which is true proved Mat. 6.7 Now by this examine your dailie monethlie annuall etc. saying over nay reading over certeine wordes euery time the same as you are stinted It is plaine the sacrifice of fooles Ecclesiastes 4.17 The two pointes wherein you protest so willinglie to agree with me were these First whether only such praiers as were made without the book were accepted of Gods children Secondly whether the same spirit teacheth vs to pray that taught the holie men of God before time You grant both these but that you would seeme to alter the first question wel then Gods owne spirit that taught them to pray without a booke or stinting of wordes teacheth vs so to pray nowe in the action of praying giveth the mouth to utter what the heart desireth moved with the same spirit Still then after your long shifting to and fro I trust you wil stand to your first wordes that you never read in the Scriptures anie commaundement for reading of praiers Secondlie to say over certeine numbers of wordes or phrases of the Scripture of custome or affectation without feeling of or asking for our present wantes is hypocrisie Therefore I wil conclude as I beganne mine Argument standing good that To doe anie thing in the worship of God werof we have no warrant of Gods worde is sinne But read praiers have no warrant in Gods Word Ergo etc. The third Argument We may not in the worship of God receave any tradition which bringeth our libertie into bondage Read prayer upon commandement brought into the publique assemblies is a tradition that bringeth our libertie into bōdage Therefore read prayer c. The Minor is thus proved that God hath left it in all mens freedome to pray as the present occasion requireth and the spirit giveth utterance according to his will Againe no man hath power to commaunde anie thing in the worship of God which God hath not commaunded c. Marke 7.7.8.9 Math. 15. Gal. 5.1 c. GEORGE GIFFORD I say it is ungodlie and neere unto blasphemie to affirme that
prescript forme of prayer is a tradition bringing our libertie into hondage c. my reason was c is that the Lord by Moses prescribed a forme of blessing c. Num. 6 the Prophets in the Psalmes have prescribed manie formes of prayer Our Saviour Christ prescribed a forme of prayer c. JOHN GREENWODS Answer HEre is a greate storme yet nothing but wynde If you were in Caiphas his place you would either have rent your clothes for zeale or els condemne me before you vnderstand what I say Is it simple dealing do you thinke to say I hold it a bondage breaking our libertie for the Lord by Moses the Prophetes our Saviour Christ also to set downe a forme of praier or to prescribe a forme of praier Did you not see that the Minor Proposition speaketh of the reading for praing and not of the forme of praier Againe of the commandement wherby men are compelled to reade instead of praing Did you not see that these wordes brought into the publique assemblies did specifye the matter to be mens writings to be read in the assemblies as a worship yea invocation of Gods name which is a grosse mockery Not that ther is any Commandement to reade ouer those formes of praier mentioned by you for praing and so the Commandement so to reade them for praying is an abuse of them and a Commandement of men and not of God etc. But that much more odious it is to bring in mens writings into the publique assemblies is proved vnlawfull in the first argument and then to commit Idolatrie with them by reading them jnstead of praing and that to compell men by Commandement wher God had set no Commandement so to vse them was a bringing all men into bondage of popish traditions So that your common recitall of these places of Scripture is abuse of them and you do but palinodian cauere I thinke if you get St. I H O N S gospell about your necke as the Papists do you wil thinke you haue religion ynough The more fearfull is your Apostacy you proceede from euill to worse GEORGE GIFFORD About the Commaunding a prescript forme of prayer to be used our Church doth agree with all godly Churches yea the reformed Churches have and do practise the same here therefore I wish the reader to observe that you Brownists doe not only condemne the the Church of England but all the reformed Churches whatsoever and can be no other but Donatistes IOHN GREENWODS Answer I Trust your madnes will appeare to all men the poyson of Aspes is vnder your tongue he that cannot rule his tongue his Religion is in vayne Shall J in your heate be pressed with multitude of Churches then heare what the Lorde faith Thou shal not followe a multitude to do evill we have the word amongst vs we shall by that worde be either iustified or condemned Then either prove your matter from the scriptures or els give eare to the Scripture If those Churches you speake of bring mens writinges into the publique assemblies inforce them to be read for praying I would see their warrant we beleeve not because men say so or doe so but because God speaketh And where he speaketh all men must be silent You may accuse other countries as you wil knowe not their estate but your drudgery insteade of true worship is lothsome the priest with his massebooke the begger with his clapdish canuize over the Pater noster for their bellie which is your common worship with other trinckets We shal speake of a Liturgie in due place Here you breath out your accustomed lyes slanders railings First you terme us Brownists Donatists wheras I never conversed with the men nor their writings I dereft Donatus his heresies And if they had beene instruments to teach us anie truth we were not therfore to be named with their name we were baptised into Christs Browne is a member of your Church your brother and all Brownists do frequent your assemblies And here you wish the reader to consider that I condemne all reformed Churches do I condemne all Churches for reproving a sinne by Gods worde May not the true Churches if they were such err Did I affirme at anie time that they were no true Church that used read prayers remember your self you knowe who is the Father of such untruthes But because your Conscience bare witnesse you had wrongfully chardged me and in frome all true Christians you bring it in by necessary consequence thus you assi'me say you prescript formes of praier brought into the publique assemblies to be the changing the work of the Spirit into an idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie a deade letter quenching the Spirit c. and therefore most detestable But all reformed Churches receive and use it c. therefore You can reason well to bring the truth into contempt your moth is open and tongue whet as a sworde thereunto If the proposition be true drawe what consequence you will it is yours not mine if the doctrine be true it is Gods worde that giveth sentence against the sinne And if you have anie sparke of grace procure that we may decide the truth with other Churches Doth it follow that because imposing of mens writinges to be read for praying is an heynous sinne therefore they that use it are no Church If I should say so I should justlie be called an Anabaptist And here you accuse me to pleade for such a freedome in the Church that nothing receaued which is imposed by commaundement Abaddon is the Father of such Prophets Doth it follow that because we would have the Church free from all traditions of men which have no warrant in Gods worde that therefore we would not receave Gods ordinances by Commaundement That we ought to receave nothing by Commaundement in the worship of God which God hath not commaunded the second commaundement with the scriptures I have rehearsed are evident Deut. 5.32.33 Mat. 2 5.2.3 Gal. 4.9 Collof 2 20 But seing your self graueled considering all the world cannot lay a Commandement to bring their owne inventions into the assemblies wher God hath laide none but forbidden it you ranne to your former places of scripture to wrast them as before where your collections are but vaine repetions of that which hath been convinced before Moses the Prophets etc. prescribed formes of praiers therefore men now may thrust their writings into the publique assemblies Your Argument is denied and yet here is no warrant for the reading them over for praier G. GIFFORD The Church had power to expounde those prayers mentioned in the Scriptures to apply them to their severall necessities c. J. GREENWOOD If you meane by expounding the breaking of them up by doctrine vp and by doctrine and praier to applye them to the severall vses of the Church by lively voyce far be it from me to thinke otherwise But if you meane by expounding to make homilies vpon them or liturgies
God See if your Ordinarie will here be pleased with you Yet you would denie all this with the same breath by a shift saying The heart in moved when one heareth the prayer of the minister and presently sendeth fourth prayers together with him I trust you will not say that the heart of the hearer prayeth one thing and the Minister an other againe the praier of the minister is the prayer of the people by Gods ordinance whiles they think one thinge and are mert to one end for anoyding confusion one speaketh ye all pray togeather one thing But the minister may as well preach and pray or reade any chapter and praye as reade praiers and praye both in one action of the minde and voyce which were strange Your cavill then whether the heart may be moved and pray both at once is taken awaye seing you graunt reading and praying two severall excercises of the heart and voyce which cannot be performed at once with lively voyce The conclusion is then that either ye must fetch the matter out of your booke when you reade prayer and so do not pray for the particular wants wher with the heart is moued and pressed before you come or els you pray not with lively voyce at al when you read The Lorde then having taught vs to breake vp our owne hearts and powre fourth our petitions with heart and voyce give grace to al his people so to worship him The Seventh Argument We must pray as necessitie requireth But stinted prayers cannot be as necessity requireth Therfore stinted prayer is unlawfull G. GIFFORD To this I answered approving the Proposition And in the Assumtion I did distinguish of matters to be prayed for as that there be thinges necessarie to be praied for at all times and of all men of these a prescript forme may be vsed at all meetings of the Church there be matters not at all tymes needfull to be praied for for such there can be no prescript forme to be vsed contynually c. I. GREENWOOD I Have proved in the first Argument that no mens writtngs are to be brought into the publique assemblies for there the liuely graces of Gods owne spirit and Cononical Scriptures onely must be heard In the Seconde the vnlawfullnes of reading for praying in the third the vnlawfullnes to impose any thing by commaundement that God hath not commaunded And here we shall handle in few wordes the end of your stinted praiers Your distinction is far differing from the wisedome of the spirit for though many thinges be at all tymes needfull to the publique assemblies yet stand not the assemblies either all at any tyme or anie at all times in the same neede and feeling of them or fitnes to receave them so that except you cā make all assemblies in the same want of such thinges as are alwaies needfull or any at al times in the same preparednes to aske and use them that be needfull you can make no stinted prayers for them Give eare then to the Scripture in this point 1 Cor. 2.11 For what man knoweth the thinges of a man if not the spirit of man which is himself c. Againe who knoweth what shal be tomorrow Whiles you then thought to have founde out more then the only wise governour of his house lawe needfull for his worship in his Church and of every soule you have lifted up your self into his seate and taken the office of his spirite upon you who searcheth the heartes and knoweth the reynes and teacheth his people how and when to aske according to his will and their needs Rom. 8.26.27 also the spirit helpeth our infirmities for what we should pray as we ought we know not But the spirit it self maketh request for us with sighs and groanes which can not be expressed Yet searching the heartes knoweth the meaning of the spirit because he maketh request for the saincts according to the will of God And wher you say then that if we marke the prescript forme of prayers of all Churches we shall see this regard that nothing be left out which is necessarie etc. This bewrayeth your shallownes the wisedome of the flesh is foolishnes with God who hath searched the depth of Gods spirit or knowne the minde of man who can prescribe the estate of all Churches and what every moment is needfull to be praied for Odious then is such drosse of a fleshly mans heart Your second provision that nothing be prayed for in your liturgy that falleth seldom out but they are limited to the time Your Church hath not this provision you compell men to pray against thunder and lightning at midd winter and in your most solemne feastes against sodeine death But the truth is till you amend your wayes God will accept no sacrifice of you much lesse requireth this at your handes to doe more in his worship then he hath commaunded And where you say in the Church of England the preachers are not limited touching the matter of their prayers it is not true you are all sworne to your portuis howsoever you may omitt some of it for your Sermons and under pretext therof what part you will And why is ther not a forme for prayer prescribed to be used after and before your Sermons is it because the text is not allwayes the same or that the speaker is not in like fitnes or the auditorie in the same preparednes I assure you these thinges might be sufficient cause why you cannot use alwaies the same wordes and pray according to your necessities and even so standeth the case for al other affaires in the Church The disposition of the soule and the distresses thereof continve not in one state one howre But let me tell you why you have no forme of praier for your preachings In manie of your parishes or as you would have them Churches Sermons are of those rare thinges whereof you saye ther can be no prescript forme of praier yea your liturgie approveth a ministerie and sufficyent administration without anie doctrine which sheweth it came out of the divells forge and not out of Christes Testament But seing you would take vpon you to set so manie prescript formes of prayer as ther are thinges necessarie for every assemblie to pray for wher Christ hath set none And if it were a thing so necessarie to have prescript wordes at the administration of the Sacraments I asked you whether our saviour Christ had not forgott himselfe as you thought that when he commaunded his ministers to go preach and baptise and shewed them the wordes of institution and the Elementes to be vsed with all things thervnto needfull he did not prescribe some forme of wordes for prayer in particular In the tabernacle every pinne was prescribed so that ether such formes of praier are not necessarie or Christes Testament hath some wants To this you answere that it is not of necessitie ther should be a sett forme of praier prescribed for the administration of
the Sacraments The minister may conceive praier etc. Hold you to this that it is not of necessity you will denie it againe in the next Argument Wel here you graunt it is not of necessitie But you have not answered me tell me whether you hold it necessarie or no if it be at all times necessarie the Testament is not perfect Againe do you not hold it of necessitie when you excommunicate men depose your ministery for not observing it But you saye it is for conveniencie If it be a part of Gods worship and all times convenient then is it necessarie and if it be not necessarie put such conveniency in your corner Capp or surplus Nowe if it be necessarie at all times you must prove it is commanded in Gods worde or els say that all things necessarie in Gods worship be not conteyned in Gods worde which were blasphemous and papisticall to affirme To this you graunt all things necessarie and convenientare conteyned and aske if I be ignorant that ther be manie thinges conteyned in the Scriptures that are not expressed in particular but be gathered from the generall rules No I am not ignorant of this but if it may be gathered ether by expresse wordes or by generall rules that there should be prescript formes of praier for the administration of the Sacraments or anie other particular action of the Church then must it be so of necessitie because God hath commaunded it though not in particular yet in generall rules But you graunt it is not of necessity therfore it is not commaunded in particular nor conteyned in anie generall rule Yet you demaunde of me if one should obiect that ther were not commaundement in the scriptures nor example for anie prayers to be made at all before preaching etc. I would say he should lye against God we have both For the Apostle shewes it was the chief part of their office to continue in the worde and prayer Act. 6.4.1 Cor. 14. and 1. Tim. 2 1 Acts. 2.42 besides all things are sanctified vnto vs by the word praier And because they never vsed doctrine in the Ch. but praier wēt before therfore their meetings is said to be vnto praier some things ther are I graunt that are not prescribed in particular and yet are commaunded by general doctrine as baptisme of Infants But whatsoever is commaunded either in particular or necessary collections from generall rules are of necessitie to be obeyed as the commaundements of God and may not be altered but your particular forms of prescript wordes have no such warrant Nowe seing you would have no prescript wordes of prayer for the minister to vle before his preaching not of necessitie for the Sacraments have none for excommunication etc. I wondred wher of your Portuis is made wherto it should serve except for churchings and burialls and such popery wherby you leaue the commaundements of God to sett vp your owne traditions And here vpon I demaunded wherupon you would make your stinted and sett praiers You marueile I should be so babling and make such questions you meane about your babling worship You saye of the particulars of the Lordes praier I demaunde nowe againe whether you can number the starres of heavē or the sandes of the sea if not much lesse the particulars of the Lords praier There is medecine and direction of praier for every soule every disease therfore to be drawē fourth by doctrine parier as need requireth you would sett a liturgie vpon some thinges and compell men thervnto every meeting which were no thing els but to seale vp the fountaine and send men to the drye pitts of your execrable devises from the whole fountaine to a pitcher of water from the liuely graces of Doctrine and prayer to your owne writings Paul commaunded to pray for Kings and Princes yet bounde no man what wordes to vse The Lord give you repentance of such presumptuous sinne as to alter his worship If you cannot knowe the estate of the soule before hand you can make no formes of wordes for it The Eight Argument Read prayers were devised by Antichrist and maintaine superstition and an Idoll ministery therfore read prayers and such stinted service are intollerable c. G. GIFFORD Antichrist devised manie blasphemous wicked prayers But to say that the making or following a prescript forme of prayer was his is most false for there were Liturgies in the Church of olde before Antichrist was set in his throne c. J. GREENWOOD THe Scripture never inforced to reade praiers for praying nether stinted vs what or how manie wordes to vse nether is the formes of praier prescribed in the Scripture and devise of man Let vs then hold these two to be the matters in hand the one reading in steade of praying the other stinging and limiting by a written liturgie what howe many wordes to pray with all other such prescriptions as your liturgie conteyneth All may be affirmed antichristian which is not warranted by Christs worde Yet your liturgie is even from that Antichrist lifted vp into the throne you speake of as may by all men be seene that will compare it with the Portuis And as I have heard the Pope would have approved of your liturgie if it might have bene receaved in his name Nowe we have proved in the discourse before that reading for praying hath no warrant from Gods Worde which maketh them two severall and divers actions every where Here then we must consider something for an other liturgie then Christes Testament which we shall find to be nothing els then an other gospell And because Mr Gifford saith ther were liturgies in the Church before Antichrist was lifted vp into his throne which I will not denye I would have all men vnderstand that I do not go about to prove the church no church that hath a liturgie as mine Arguments are falslie wrested to that purpose but to prove the vnlawfullnes of such liturgie thrust vpon mens Consciences is onlie my determination through Gods assistance The worde liturgie signifieth publicum manus ergon Laon the worke of or for the people that is the very execution of the ministerial actions in the Church according to the worde of all the officers therof that is the practise of those ministeriall duties prescribed by Christ we may euery where reade Jn the first of the Gospell of Luke the 23. verse it is said And is came to passe that when the daies of his ministration were past he went home to his house meaning Zacharias where we see the worde Liturgie for his execution of his ministeriall function Now this Leitourgia of the newe Testament is even the rule and function prescribed by Christ for the puqlique actions to be donne in his Church which leiturgu of Christ is perfect and he pronounced accursed that addeth any thing therto or taken any there from yea al mē are bound to keep the true patterne therof without alterration
Egypt should knowe the beautie of Sion ther is a cloude betweene you and us we have blessed be our God a pillar of fire before us An other fault you say in my former reason is that because the censure of the Church should redresse defaultes therfore ther needeth no liturgie Nay take all with you No fault can be censured that is not a transgression against the rules of Gods worde and those to be censured by the doctrine and admonitions of the Church therfore we neede no liturgies To the worde of God onely ought all men to be bounde by covenant and for the transgressions therof onely to be censured G. GIFFORD The Church hath this power to ordeine according to Gods worde and to appointe such orders in matters of circumstance c. as shall most fuly serve to edification And then these orders being established the Church is to drive men to the observation of them I. GREENWOOD First in this your papisticall mudde I must tell you your reading of mens writinges for prayer is a falle worship of God and not a matter of circumstance And for matters of order and circumstance which are no part of the worship ther can be no other lawes made of them then Christ hath made As for ordeyning of lawes in the Church it is to plead for unwritten verities and to make the lawe of God unsufficient neyther can it be according to the worde to make anie lawe that God hath not made but an adding to his worde which is execrable pride these your wordes then according to Gods worde was but a cloake to cover the grossenes of your position for the worde ordeyne or create lawes is to make some that are not made before let us then see your cleane sentence to be this The Church hath authority in matters of order and circumstance to make and ordaine lawes in his Church for his worship now see how you contradict these Scriptures Rev. 22.18.19 Prov. 30.5.6 everie worde of God is pure etc. put nothing to his worde least he reproove thee and thou be found a liar likewise Deut. 4.2 and 12.32 and Gal. 3.15 though it be but a mans covenant when it is confirmed no man doth abrogate it or superordeine anie thing to it And the second Commaundement forbiddeth anie such humaine tradition in the worship of God all the Popes trinckets might be brought in by the same grounde We would willingly have seene your warrant for this doctrine your bare worde is not sufficient to impose other lawes then God hath made upon his Church This is the foundation of Poperie and Anabaptistrie to give libertie to make lawes in the worship of God Yet you will goe furder that such lawes being ordeyned established by publique authoritie the discipline and censures of the Church are to drive men to the observation of the same By your judgment our Saviour Christ was an Anabaptisticall Schismatique that would not himself nor his Disciples obey and observe the traditions of the Elders And what saith he unto pleaders for traditions It is thus written Marke 7.5 then asked him the Pharises and Scribes whie walke not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders but eate meate with unwashed hands Then be answeared surely Isay hath prophesied well of you hypocrites as it is written this people honoreth me with their lippes but their heartes are far from me But they worship me in vayne teaching doctrines mens precepts For you lay the commaundement of God aside and observe the tradition of men And to helpe foorth your evill matter instead of proof from the scripture you fal out into furious exclamation against them that desire onely to have the worde practised saying who is able to imagine the innumerable divisions and offences in the practise of your anabaptisticall freedome in which you deny the Church to have power to ordeine and impose any orders lett all men judge the venemousnes of this tongue Christ pronunceth them accursed that add or superordeyne any thing to his worde and you pronounce judgement of them that onely obey his worde Shall it be said that Mr Gifford holdeth that the onely practise of Gods worde would be the cause of iunumerable divisions and offences This hath bene Satans old accusation in the mouth of the most enimies of Christs Gospell nowe it must be Mr Giffords accusation of Gods ordinances to be insufficient unperfect etc. fearfull is his Apostacy from that truth he hath knowen I take it it is more like to be Anabaptistry to practise any thing without warrant of the word to make their own devises lawes in Gods worship then to doe nothing but what God hath commaunded within the limites of our callings For the franticke ministery it came of your owne wordes that therfore you must needes have a leiturgie because ther are manie franticke spirits in the ministerie then I say it is like you have a frantick ministerie that cannot be governed without another liturgie then Christs Testament For their great giftes you speake of I will not compare with them My reason from the Colossians was that as the Church there is commaunded to admonish their Pastor Archippus if he transgressed and to stirr him up to his busines so all ministers that caused divisions contrary to the doctrine of Christ were to be admonished and avoyded if they repent not so that the worde of God and admonition by the same if they trāsgresse is the waye to keepe all men in due order and not imposing Leiturgies upon the Church besides Christs Testament And where you collected thus that if read Prayers and imposed liturgies be Idolatrous then wher will you finde a visible Church say you I answered that the true Church might erre even in this poynte though not in like height of sinne Then you desire that the Churches of England may find like favour at our hand to which I answeare let him that handleth that question with you shew you how your sinnes herein exceede other countries and persequute such as reprove you Your church as you all it cannot pleade ignorance Your rayling speaches of blind Schismatiques Donatists etc. bewray what sweet water is in the heart if you cannot prove your Church to be the established Church of Christ they light all upon your self Ther are none Schismatiques but such as departe from the faith shew wherein we have transgressed will not be reformed In the meane tyme you are Schismatiques from Christ in that you practise the Statutes of Omry You chardge us with pride for that you saye we imagine to knowe more then all the Churches uppon earth This also hath bene Satans old weapon to deface the truth Ierem. 18.18 why maye not a simple babe in Christ see that which whole nations have not seene we cannot but speake the things Gods Worde teacheth us if we speake trueth you need not oppose that we judge anie man it is the worde of God shall judge us all and I saye it is
of the spirit giving vs cause of our owne heart by the worke of the spirit giving vs cause of prayer and instead therof to reade another mans writing I doubt not wil be founde and judged of all that haue spirituall eyes to see a quenching of that grace yea in that action the reading hindreth vs from pleading our cause with God according to the occasions we see in our owne hearts And by not teaching men to drawe out the graces of God in them to offer vp the sweete incense of his owne spirit in praier but an other course devised by fleshly pollicy the people growe into such Atheisme that they learne not all the dayes of their life to lay open their owne soule before the Lord in praier How much more then by imposing stinted wordes to be read in the whole assemblies insteade of the liuely graces making it a sufficieÌ„nt ministerie to reade ouer such beggarlie wares do you abandon Gods spirituall giftes and make an assemblie of Atheists in most places of this land yea trulie in the best assemblies compell such wares to be read when and where the liuely voyces of God present graces should onely be draweÌ„ fourth as an holy odour vnto the Lorde Yea I appeale to the consciences of al that feare God if this have not brought the land generally to Atheisme that not one amongst an hundred can call vpon God 2 That it is an ignorance to presume to come into so neere a conversing with God and to do one action for an other so offring the sacrifice of fooles let it be sufficient proof that reading is not praying That it is presumptuous to bring such lame sacrifices when yov know to do better let it be considered whether you would so vncircumspectly and carelesly approche to the presence of the Prince or any noble personage Then if he be our Lorde where is his honour his feare etc. when we wil teach men and compel men to do they knowe not what in his sight and to offer such lame sacrifice The Priests themselves care not what offring they bring to him Malach. 1. Thirdly the reading praier can be at no hand a striuing in praier for the worde agoniso which is read Rom. 15 30 signifieth to contend in fervency both in minde and worde to preuaile with God as Iaakob wrestled with the Angell and said I will not let thee goe except thou blesse me Genes 32 24.25.26 Such â—rist you shall see throughout the Psalmes in the praiers of David and the Prophets alas how this should be performed either by feruency or contynuance let the wise consider 4. For importunacy and continvance in praier whereof we have many precepts let the worde be looked vpon which is proscartereo to insist by perseverance etc. as we see our Saviour Christ make plaine vnto vs by a parable Luke 11.5 6.7.8 and Luke 18.1.2.3.5.7 now shall not God auenge his elect which crye night and day Experience we see in Moses who when he lifted up his handes to heaven the Israelites so long preuayled Exod. 17. You can not make your read prayers serve in this vse with all your divises For how would you effect this except to make the Priest reade till he sweat againe with vaine repetition and the people that use such stinted praiers to say them often over as the Papists their fifteene Aue marias fiue Pater nosters as a cure of altheir grieves By this litle I have spoken it may appeare though the Lorde knowes I am a man of vncricumcised lippes neither able to vtter that God giveth me by faith to see in these high thinges neither yet comprehending anie title of the excelency of them it I hope it shall appeare to Gods children how odious your marchandize is in Gods eyes and how you make the ordinances of God of true prayer of none effect by your traditions he onely approving the lively graces of his owne ministerie and such as have giftes and are called thervnto to be his mouth vnto the people and the peoples mouth vnto him in the publique assemblies you invent a newe worship and extinguish his which maketh men fall into dissolutnes and bloudie tyrannie against his Sainctes And where I alleadged that Paul would pray with the spirit and vnderstanding and therefore not vpon a booke you answere that Paul had no such neede of a book as other men have But if you had looked vpon the text better you should see that the Apostle in his owne person teacheth what ought to be donne in all Churches of all men And that he there taketh away the abuse of spirituall giftes I Corin. 14.15 and in the same Chapter sheweth that this and all other his doctrines are commannments of God vers. 37 nowe either God prescribeth two wayes to pray or els your reading for praying is a devise of man But your self have confessed there is no commaundement to reade prayer for praying Yet here you cauill with your stale shift that Paul taught others to singe Psalmes vpon a booke which is a meere evasion seing singing is not praying The same Apostle faith to all that are borne of God because we are sonnes God hath sent fourth into our heartes the spirit of his sonne which cryeth Abba Father So that although we have not like measure of grace yet if we cannot pray we have uot the spirit of God Gal. 4.6 I alleadged as you say a reason here why praier read cannot be true praier Jn reading we fetch the matter from the booke which moueth the heart In true praier we fetch the matter from the heart which causeth the mouth to speake Your answere is that this a most ridiculous vanitie for tell me say you this when we bring fourth in true praier matter froÌ„ the heart which causeth the mouth to speak hath not the heart bene first moued with the worde of faith etc. Let men here witnesse with me what cause I had to esteeme you as a skorner Againe how empty you are of any spiritual favour And here you haue no answere to give but aske me certaine questions First whether wheÌ„ we bring fourth in true prayer etc. the heart hath not beene first instructed To this I answere that againe you confesse the reading praier vpon a booke is not praying but an instruction of the heart to praye If you would stand to this we should not neede have so much labour and all the places of Scripture which you have alleadged for to proove reading praying have beene meerly wrested by you to deceaue the simple Well say you but if the heart be first instructed before it can vtter matter in praier whie may not the heart againe be moued with hearing or reading the worde and so vtter prayer Yes I graunt and still you graunt me that reading is not praying but moueth to praier TheÌ„ all your assemblies that have no prayer at all and all that vse read praier for praying do not praie but mocke with