Selected quad for the lemma: prayer_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
prayer_n	cast_v	devil_n	fast_v	3,166	5	10.2336	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02200	M. Some laid open in his coulers VVherein the indifferent reader may easily see, hovve vvretchedly and loosely he hath handeled the cause against M. Penri. Done by an Oxford man, to his friend in Cambridge.	Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1589 (1589)	STC 12342; ESTC S118462	88,170	130

the edge of these arguments be something overworne and that we hope wil not be longe especially if he light once in one of these swete Deanries or Bishopricks Then I trust a man may speake with him vnder a couple of Capons then I hope hee wil not be so hasty to fright vs with these forcible arguments For it may be he wil not be at leasure he wil haue somewhat els to doe his Chappell and his Organes with other such implements and impediments moe will keepe him I trust from doing vs any greate hurt either in Lodgicke or Diuinitie while he liues Then we looke rather he should doe as the rest of his comperes are woont to doe that is liue of the stocke and waste of the stoare till they be within a little of bankerour as for arguments and matter of controuersie because they growe olde themselues alasse they may leaue that to Watson or Walton Haslop or Munday or some such sweete Chapleine of theirs whoe haue excelent witts at whipcoard conclusions to manicle these puritans with Well as it is cleare you see that M. Some can begg the question as wel as his betters So you shal wel perceue that he can speake for himselfe if his neighbors wil not And in deede for that good guift of sounding forth the trumpet of his owne praises he shal haue it of all and of al. To begin withal what say you to this If you wil knowe saith he what I thinke of sound preaching before th'administration of th'holy Sacrament my answere is that I doe greatly both like and commend it c. This mind was I euer of since I knewe what gods Religion good Diuiuitie meant howe say you Is not sound preaching much beholden to M. Some that wil of his curcesie vouchsafe it both his liking and commendation Belike it had bin in some danger to h●ue lost his credite if M. Some had not reached forth his hand to giue it some alowance wel for al that he had best looke to it that he doe not only affoard it his good lik●ng in words but that he reuerence it in deed from his hart and that to some measure of practize if he loue his owne soule otherwise wee can tell him it wil bruize him into powder in th'end were he 10. times better then he is being as he may e●silie lerne by th'Apostle either A Sauour of life vnto life or A Sauour of death vnto death and therefore not to be dallied withall as if it were as our pleasures to entertaine it or reiect when we thinke good but he that doth it not that is he that doeth not embrace the word preached as the message of saluation with trembling and feare may be sure without repentance he very curse of God will overtake him and his seede what meanes your D. then to tel vs so solemly of his good liking of sounde preaching when in paine of Gods vengeance he is bound to like it But he telleth vs farther that it hath pleased many of excellent learning and wisdome to like of his treatise Sure if they did so then is th'olde prouerbe verified that Blessing goeth by sauour Some B. belike or Bishopl●ke man for I doe not thinke that any man els would abuse him so much And you may tel your Doct. from me that certainly if they were Courtiers they did but flout him if they were learned and of judgment in deede they did but flatter him And therefore for mine owne part I cannot so much condemne him in this case if in the want of Heraulds and some other good friends he be forced as it were to make an emblazure of his owne coate armor himselfe who can blame him then if in speaking of the ignorant ministers he tel vs himselfe when no man els will tel vs for him That his writings and sermons are not Ajax shield to couer them but the Lords sworde to cut them So that if any man be desirons newe to finde out the swoorde of the Lord where shall he redilier come by it then about the exchange or those places where M. Some vseth to prech there he may happen heare news of it But by the way can you shewe me any writer olde or newe that euer gaue that name of the Lords sworde to his owne writings and sermons with his owne mouth but only M. Some I knowe right wel that the true preaching of the worde is both the fire of God to burne the water of God to quench and the sworde of God to cut betwixt the marrow and the bones but what of that Yet it may be doubted whether M. Some may justly brag of any such apparant successe of his labours and if he could yet me thinks modesty might haue taught him rather to haue left the publishing and emblazinge thereof to others then thus out of season to be the proclaimer of it himselfe indeede if a man marke it there is much a do through out his whole booke with his writings his words his reasons his answeres his sermons c. which it semeth he woulde faine fasten vppon posteritie for lawes and statutes as if the ground of al good knowledge were grauen in the very wrinkles of his forehead in one place he tels M. Penri that he may as easily fetch oile out of a flint as any such consequents out of his writings c. And againe They which haue heard my sermons or reade my writings c. And yet more my own words in this present Chapter are as cleare as the Sunn c. what should a man talke of it then when al things that M. Some doth are so cleare so direct and in so good proportion There be men in the world that write out of jointe sometimes speake darkely and intricately and make many euil consequents but they be not belike of that colledg that M. Some was of where a man shall as soone fetch oile out of a flint c. as any thing that hath not his weight measure and therefore no maruel if he call his owne writings and Sermons The Lords sword to cut these ignorant ministers for he that doeth neuer any thinge out of square must needs cut deepely I trowe In deed if he coulde so cut them that they might be quite cut of the ministerie it were a happy cuttinge both for them and our church But that he is not the man that is like to worke this cure we see by his lookes For as our Sauiour Christ saith to his disciples This kinde of Deuill is not cast out but by praier and fasting So wee say to M. Some that this kinde of Deuil or deadly sore of our dombe ministery which may rightly be called Vlous Matricis that so feastereth and wrankeleth inwardly euen to the very bowels of our Church and State can neuer be cured but with an humble spirit a hart that bleedeth for the ruines of Sion which because it is a lesson that it semeth M.

doubt not but his cousin germaine of Sarum who it may be woulde disdaine to be either his or a better mans inferior in Blindenesse woulde willingly subscribe vnto it without wresteling And I muze if on should defende That women idiots Sorcerers Conjurers can not ad an edifying worde to th'Element though they should repeat the words of th'institution a thousand times over I muze I say whether M. Some wold refute this euen as he hath don the former by telling vs that which the very boies that learn their pricksong could not I trow be ignorant of vz. That the summe of Christs Sermon is an edifying word For who doubts vnlesse his brains be out that The word of God is in his own nature an edifying woord That the Scripture is autopisos that is of credite in it selfe inspired not of man but of God c. who doubts of al this but what of that Shall we therefore infer that out of a Coniurers mouth it is an edifying worde or that wheresoeuer els the worde is wretchedly profaned hand over head as by a woman at baptism or by a cursed man of no calling in the congregation there must needs be Edification straight O but you wil say M. Some doth not say so he speaks only of vnpreaching ministers But I say again he must needs say so whether he wil or no for the reson that he bringeth doth point as directly and conclude as forcibly for sorcerers conlurers as for Dumbe Ministers and therein I pray you be judg your self The sum of christs Sermon saith he is an edifying word Ergo. The dumbe Ministers repeating the same Sermon doe ad an edifying worde And why not I pray you by the same proportion Ergo. Women Ergo. Witches Ergo. Madmen Ergo Idiots repeating the same Sermon do ad an edifying worde For if there be no more in the matter but only the wordes of the institution the sermon of Christ without regarde had of the calling of the man and of Gods inuiolable ordinance therin And M. Penri holding that our dumbe doggs that haue no measure of gifts are no more capable of the ministery then these then is it not possible but that M. Some must either as his vsual delight is begge the question or els the consequences must be al one in spight of his hart I know right wel that a godly man may even then be edified by the worde when it is most blasphemed by a hellish mouth and I knowe that a man may be edified some times stroken with remorse vpon the sight of some horrible murther as he may also at on of these plaies or Theater Spectacles as some haue not let to giue out That they for their parts haue bin more edified by a play then by all this preaching neuerthelesse I hope no man of sence will say that either murther or blaspheming the worde of God or the same word wretchedly prophaned in a play is therefore an ordinarie meanes to edifie And what warrant hath any man to seeke for Edification there where there is noe promise he shall be edefied Though the worde it selfe be an edefieng word yet may not the Lord chuse whether it shallbe an edifying word to vs or no especially when we make noe conscience of repairing thither where we knowe before hand his holy ordinance is prophaned Farther it is worth marking that whereas M. Penri saith Noe learned man wil deny the Lords prayer rightly saide to be an edefying worde nowe M. Some as a man that had long fasted and thereby glad of any thing to releeue his hunger doth hereuppon all to be thanke him I thanke you saith he for this and therfore doe conclude against you that the Scripture barely read and to non other purpose then to edifie by reading is wholsome doctrine for the Lords prayer is part of the holy Scripture wherein I knowe not well whether M. Penri shoulde doe better to thanke him for his coste or praise him for his curtesie Neuerthelesse when the matter shall come to sifting I feare it wil hardly deserue halfe the Thanks that M. Some bestoweth For did you neuer heare of a man that tooke post horses to ride northwarde yet by wandering all night founde himselfe within 2. mile of Lambeth in the morning This was sure M. Some who making more hast then good speed to ride away with his poore aduantage is after his long trauel wandering as you see returned home by some night spirit by meanes whereof he is if you marke it as neere his jornies end as when he first set foote in stirrop Why alasse cannot so greate a Clarke as M. Some is see into these words Rightly sayed vnlesse they be written in great text letters or printed in Folio Or is he nowe to learne that Noe popish Priest as a Priest Noe Papist as a Papist Noe Witch as a Witch did ever say the Lords prayer rightly in his life What a squinteyed conclusion is this then to drawe an argument from Rightly saide to Barely read As if we were so childish to graunt him that which is Barely reade of a minister in his place function were Rightly said or that the hurrying over the Lords prayer or any other piece of Scripture either without booke or within booke were rightly saide that is to say that the word prophaned contrary to the holy ordinance and institution of Christ were wholsome doctrine But howe shal we doe nowe M. Some hath yet spied out an other blasphemie an other strange pointe of diuinitie and what is that Forsooth The worde of God vttered is not an edifying worde vnlesse it be vttered according to th'ordinance both in regarde of the persons that vttered the same and the ende wherefore it is vttered wherevppon he questioneth with his adversarie in this manner Is not this M. Penri to make the person to giue credite to the holy word of God which position is very grosso blasphemons We answere in M. Penries behalfe no in deede is it not First it is cleare M. Penri speaketh here as he doth in the whole course of his booke of that which is ordinary not extraordinary For what haue we to doe nowe with miracles or extraordinary revelatious Or as I saide before if any man be edified by a Play by a Murther by Blaspheming or prophaning of the worde of God what haue wee to doe with that This being set downe then as a thing cleare and out of question that M. Penri speaketh onlye of that which is ordinarie we answere that his assertion standeth firme and inviolable against M. Some and all the wrangling spirits in the world vz. That the worde vttered is not an edefying word vnlesse it be vttered according to the ordinance both in regarde of the persons c. neither is this at all To make the person giue credite to the holy word noe more then we say that the bread wine prepared for the Lords table can be