likely to see The poore man can afford vs no Fathers heere his reading it seemeth would not reach vnto that and his good Masters were not at hand to help him I could furnish him if hee would thank mee to better purpose then his Scriptures haue but want I suppose he will rather then be beholding to a Protestant To conclude wee will not deny him that Euery man hath his Angell-keeper but within the Church at least not rambling abroad Are they not all of them ministring spirits sent forth to minister To whom where Not to euery man vnder heauen but with restriction Who shall be heyres of saluation In offensiue sort against their foes in defensiue manner for their good Thus the Scriptures speake and no otherwise thus the Fathers taught and no otherwise Not Euery man but Euery Christian man at his Birth or at his Baptisme hath his Guardian Angell deputed to him XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. WIth Ly and all Sir Gagger Not pray for vs Now I pray you who saith so No man will say or think so that beleeueth in his Creed The communion of Saints and can tell what connexion of the two parts of the Church of the Redeemed there is the one militant heere in Earth the other Regnant and Triumphant in Heauen Now a principall part of that Communion and Society which they haue with vs is to recommend our state and necessities vnto God our Father To which end God Almighty hath as wee professe in our Collect vpon Michaelmas Day appointed the Seruice of men and Angels in a wonderfull sort But somewhat there was or the man mistook Their Praying for vs may bee considered two waies either in Generall or in Particular For the peace of Sion the prosperity of Ierusalem the state and condition of the Church militant in earth thus in generall For Manasses in Captiuity Hezechiah beleaguered by Senacherib For this man or that man in particular vpon speciall motiues and occasions and that likewise two waies either ordinarily and of common course or specially by Delegation in extraordinary seruice Now this Proposition Holy Angels pray for vs doth not limit nor explaine the tearmes but is ambiguous as this peddler most an end frameth all in his Pack to calumniate and to deceiue Whether All Angels pray for All men or All for some men or some for all or some for some who can tell that was not of counsell to his pen and purpose As it lyeth lurking in fraudulent tearmes I can answere both waies and contradictory waies First Holy Angels pray not for vs and truly too Nor shall this Goose hiscere against my answere viz. Not euery holy Angell in speciall for euery man in particular Not at all times vpon any or all occasions I can also answer and truly too Holy Angels pray for vs. And so this Gagger may goe shoo the Goose That is It is a principall part of their performance in Heauen as they magnifie their Maker eternally so to recommend vnto Him vncessantly the Estate and good beeing of the Church of the Redeemed as yet in great Tribulations I adde yet further At all times some of them pray for the particular estate of some priuate Men Cities States Societies or Countries And the Holy Angell-keepers for their speciall charges commended vnto their trust by God at sometime some of them for all for some vpon special occasion employment or designation as extraordinarily they may and doe vndertake Now to come home to your loose laxe affirmation Your expresse words in our Bible are not so expresse as to speake to your purpose that of Zachar. 1. 9. 10. runneth thus O Lord of hosts how long wilt thou net haue mercy vpon Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iuda against which thou hast had indignation these 70 yeeres For it followeth not because this one Angell prayed for Ierusalem in Captiuity any Angel doth pray for any or euery man This was extraordinary your supposall must bee ordinary This was occasionall for his employment your Angels must not bee so allotted Happely this was their Angell-Guardian Michael Prince of the Synagogue Pleade thus for Angell-keepers none will gayn-say you They pray for vs no question at all This was in a peculiar case for restoring Ierusalem and Iuda according to promise in appointed time 70 yeeres designed by the Prophets So the question was idle like your selfe Whether this were not a Prayer The question well ordred should haue beene Whether All Angels at all times doe not in particular pray for euery particular man as this Angell heere did for Sion To the former wee answere positiuely Yea to the second negatiuely No. Nor can this instance euict that Tobie 12. 12. Raphael telleth Tobias thus When thou didst pray and Sara thy daughter-in-law I did bring the remembrance of your praiers before the Holy One. First what an Addle-head are you that trump in the Protestants way with this Testimony which your Masters can tell you for happely your ignorance knoweth not so much they esteem of no otherwise than a Talmudicall Tale Secondly how can you accord this Tale with your owne Tenents Raphael both speaketh heer as their Angell-keeper and carrieth himself so in that whole negotiation Raphael was of the highest Hierarchy next to Michael and Gabriel in your account Your selues teach that Angels of that Hierarchie are not Custodes nor imploied vnto men but all imployed ordinarily are of the inferiour and lowest rank Riddle me riddle mee what is this You told vs of one that could vntie knots let him vntie this or cut it in pieces for it troubleth vs not a little That Angell Reuel 8. 4. from whose hands the smoke of incense ascended which is expressed to haue been the prayers of Saints who was he can you tell mee whether the Angell of the Couenant Christ Iesus himself or Michael the Protector of the Church do you knowe or some other Angell are you assured Was his imployment ordinary or extraordinary can any tell Mysticall you may be sure this Passage is and can you draw Arguments from such Testimonies Your great vnderstanding doth happely think Yea the common resolution is for Nay But howsoeuer the praiers of all Saints that is of the Church were offred to God in the hands of an Angell their Mediator therefore All Angels pray for all men or some Angels for some men ordinarily I deny the necessity of this doctrine When you say more you shall heare further but much more I beleeue you cannot for you fail of your wonted Cue See more and See Fathers that affirm it neither Scripture nor Fathers heer In Conclusion from whence drew you forth this imputation that The holy Angels pray not for vs For Bellarmine your Polstar and Cynosura in point of Controuersie doth confesse It is not denied that Sancti and so Angell orant pro nobis saltem in genere secundum Scriptur as And those that assent as most doo aâ— the
why then thus they take it It is his office it will be performed by him at the Resurrection and day of Doome Moses then will stand vp and accuse you Any way take it it cannot conclude that Saints in Heauen do knowe by any ordinary course what passeth continually vpon earth What Saints are said to know and what not how many waies to what purposes and ends I could let the Reader see and gagge vp this gabbler for euer but I haue don it already elsewhere in that point to which this tendeth of Inuocation of which notwithstanding I must say som what heere for it followeth next in order XXIX That they pray not for vs. WEE say not so You either mistake vs or bely vs. The Saints pray for vs all in generall all Saints for vs or euery Saint for vs that is for the Church militant on earth You shall finde if you enquire that the Caluinists themselues as you call them or Puritans hold this I adde The Saints pray for vs in particular some particular Saint for some particular man in some speciall cause some time And to come more particularly to it The Question is not whether Saints departed doe pray vnto God that is confessed on both sides all Saints doe by prayer intercession supplication as well as thanksgiuing It is confessed they pray for others and for themselues too by all but this addle-pate who prates he knoweth not what and measureth other mens senses by his owne senslesnesse It is euident they doe Apocal. 6. 10. How long O Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell vpon the earth The fellow neuer heard that the soules of the Righteous pray for their consummation in glory such an infant is hee in these speculations which are so common Again it is not denied they pray for vs in regard of that Communion of Saints whereof this holy performance is a principall and main part for vs in generall out of fellow-feeling and commiseration of our miseries which themselues haue tasted in this valley of tears for their friends in particular whom they remember whose state they recommend vnto God in praier they hauing lost no endowment in their Soule in Glory which did accrue vnto them vpon Earth And as for Loue and Charity vnto their brethren which makes them so forward to do them good that is exceedingly enlarged there Monica Saint Augustine's Mother for instance departing this life before her Sonne I make no doubt being seateâ— in those Heauenly Palaces might and did remember her sonne on earth recommend his estate vnto our blessed Sauiour pray for him in generall his good Constancy Perseuerance and Confirmation in the course of his Christian Profession and Priestly Function and not onely so but might remember him in some particular occasions occurrences and actions with which in her life-time she was acquainted And yet Saint Augustine had nor could haue any warranâ— at all to pray vnto her for her remembrance of him or assistance in things that fell out afterwards after her death because there was not nor yet could bee any ordinary course certain whereby hee might acquaint her with his particulars after her death which is all in all for inuocation To come home to the point It should not be put as heer it is that they pray for vs for without question they doo and it is confessed by all Protestants that they doo pray for vs in generall all without limitation in particular in some cases But it should haue been specified when for what by what meanes and how they doo and doo not pray for vs but of these and such like necessary Inferences as these this Dreamer thought not or else would take no notice So hard a thing is it to knowe or set down the state of a Controuersie right so vnwilling at least men are to come to tearms of commerce and some agreement who minde nothing but faction and disturbance This being premised we proceed to see how contrary the Doctrine of the Protestants is vnto their owne Bible Apoc. 5. 8. our Bibles read thus The 24 Elders fell down before the Lamb hauing euery one of them Harps and golden Vials full of Odors which are the Praiers of Saints Heer 24 Elders are represented but in a vision Then who told this Smatterer in diuinity who they were It is exprest that these Odors were the Prayers of Saints but is it expressed who they were that presented them or what Prayers or what Saints The Praiers of Saints on Earth But then except a man be a Saint on Earth Intercession vnto Mediation of Saints in Heauen will doo him no good at all Presented by Saints in Heauen but Quo warranto For not because this vision was in Heauen represented therefore the Action and Actors intended were also heauenly and the thing represented no where done but there Such obscure Prophesies not yet vnderstood that you can say by any are neuer assumed for Proofs in point of Controuersie but of men that vphold a desperate forlorn cause for want of cleerer Proofs For the Text Irenaeus inclineth to take it of those Prayers which the Church of GOD offreth vpon Earth lib. 4. cap. 33 Quoniam ergo Nomen Filij proprium Patris est in Deo omnipotenti per Iesum Christum offert Ecclesia bene ait secundum vtraque in omni loco incensum offertur Nomini meo sacrificium purum Incensa autem Iohannes in Apocalypsi Orationes ait esse Sanctorum which is again repeated by that mvsticall Diuine Apocal. 8. And the smoke of the incense which are the Prayers of Saints went vp from the hand of the Angell before God No more is collected or can bee from these Texts but this that Prayer is compared to Incense according vnto that in the Psalm Let their Praier bee set forth in thy sight like incense and let the lifting-vp of their hands bee as the euening sacrifice But concluded it cannot be from these mysticall Visions that these Saints prayed vnto that Angell that the 24 Elders represented the Angels that those Praiers were addressed from men vpon Earth that the Vision expressed a thing ordinary and done that any man of discretion or vnderstanding in Diuinity or common reason would haue gone in hand to haue prooued a thing controuerted and obscure by that which is much more obscure as this Fellow doth In Macchab. 2. 15. 14. thus we read This is a louer of the Brethren who prayeth much for the people and for the holy City to wit Ieremias the Prophet and from thence the conclusion is Therefore they pray for vs. To weet you should haue added the Prophets or the Iewes Indeed in a Dream worthy no doubt to be beleeued verse 11. For so Iudas dreamed and you beleeue it and draw vs a Conclusion from your Dream thus Therefore they Ieremy and Onias if you will pray for vs In a Dream too So the Doctrine
owne Bibles nay to the expresse words thereof nedum consequents and deductions saith this phantastique pamphleter if wee will belieue him For why marke expresse words Luke 1. 〈◊〉 9. 10. Thus wee reade in our English Bibles It came to passe that while hee Zachary executed the Priests office before God in the order of his course according to the custome of the Priests office his lot was to burne Incense in the Temple of the Lord and the whole multitude of people were praying without at the time of Incense This is a Text of the Protestants Bible true and expressely contrary to their owne doctrine In what Doe the Protestants teach that Zachary did no such thing or that there was no such custome of executing the Priests office or that the multitude were not then without or not at Prayer at the time of Incense If they teach or preach or belieue or thinke all these or any one of these then they are contrary to their owne Bibles Thus they doe not thus they are not charged to doe What then why they are charged to teach that Diuine Seruice ought to be in a tongue vnderstood of the assistants at the Seruice and this Text is contrary to that their opinion For by this Text it is expresse that publique Seruice ought to be in an vnknowne tongue peraduenture because there is no mention of any tongue at all of nothing there spoken or saide by the Priest at all of the vse of his tongue taken away from him or because Zachary offered Incense in his course and incense was prayers in an vnknowne tongue or because the people were praying without when hee was offering Incense within which they neuer did but in an vnknowne tongue Laugh Protestants and lye downe if you be not gagged Qui risistis nunc ridete qui nunquam risistis nunc ridete This fellow meaneth to make you merry was neuer heard such a giddy goose gagler In other Texts of Scripture for other points there is some face or resemblance of a proofe Here nec vola nec vestigium And if there were any it would put for Hebrew or Syriacke their mother tongue For the People were praying not the Priest and the People at least most of them spake but their mothers Language vnlesse the fellow can proue that the Iewes had their seruice in a strange tongue So that our deuout Catholikes by this Doctrine must either pray in English their Mothers Tongue or in Hebrew wherein the People prayed then and there The Latine is irregular because then not vsed by the People or Zachary For Zachary vsed no Language at all They prayed for ought we know in the Tongue they spake as we doe in English in our Seruice This they could pray in and did without doubt nor is it gaine-said Hee could not pray in any Tongue anon his speech being taken from him How shall we come at last to see how contrary this is to our Bibles why out with your Table-bookes and Note he biddeth you If you doe aske what you shall Note First Note that this was the custome This What Of good fellowship tell vs that we may note it Was it the custome for the People to pray we doubt not of it but to pray in what Tongue in Hebrew out vpon it take heede of that this Custome will cut the throat of Latin Seruice For it was in a knowen Tongue But to execute the Priests Office was The Custome What is that to Seruice in an vnknowen Tongue It is now a part of the Priests Office to say Seruice it was not then but to offer Incense or Sacrifice They had a custome Speake man what to doe what was their Custome We haue many so haue you Because the Iewes had a Custome to doe I cannot tell what must you needes haue a Custome to haue Latin Seruice and to impose that Custome vpon vs Must their Custome to doe God knoweth what put a Custome on vs to haue our Seruice in Latin What Baker would not bake that Codshead in his Ouen or what Hostesse not beate the pot about his eares that in discoursing with her of scoring should reason He would not pay his score because the Iewes Had a Custome I but note secondly and that salueth all The People were without and the Priest within what of that why How then did they vnderstand him Saying what Praying what He spake nothing he was not to speake to vse his hands not his lippes had he spoken must it needes be they vnderstood him not because there was a wall betweene or because a wall betweene and they could not heare him speake did he therefore speake the Ethiopian Tongue I will put a Case Suppose A. Pe. or this fellow were at Supper in Partridge Alley at a Bottle-Alewifes or a Bakers House with a brace of woodcockes beside himselfe his Hostesse is in the Sollar or in some outward remoued roome he calleth vnto her for what you will Sawce for the fooles say it be He may call his heart out till his tongue ake and not the neere for why his Hostesse vnderstandeth him not Marke his owne reason He is within shee is without how then can shee vnderstand him No more then if a Gypsie should cant vnto her in Pedlers French because there is a wall or two or some other partition that diuideth her and him asunder must it not be so For Note Mutatis mutandis Change but the termes and the reason is all one The People were without the Priest within how then did they vnderstand him The man were best to take heede of such reasons as this least a worse thing betide him then not being vnderstood lest the Woman suppose hee call her Whore For why not in an vnknowne tongue and so crack his cockscombe for his labour It were worth the noting to haue him so serued The Animall had but his iust reward for such a frothie reason as this fitter for an Ale-wife than a Priest Praemonitus praemunitus fore-warned halfe-armed Peraduenture by aduertisement he wil preuent it and so we leaue him noted for that which he is The meaning of that place nothing to purpose either expresly or by any consequence is this In the Temple at Ierusalem where this accident was that is thus remembred by Saint Luke The Priests both of the City and of the Country serued by courses in their seuerall moneths not singular for they were many thousands and had manifold employments in that seruice but as they were descended from the XXIIII Founders of so many seuerall Courses all of one Linage and Family in a Course These seuerall XXIIII Courses were first of all instituted as appeareth in the Scripture by King Dauid and so continued till the Captiuity of Babylon and after the Captiuity being restored to the desolation of the Iewish State Zachary was of the course of Abia in ranke the VIII The Priests seruice in the Temple was diuers and different euery day who should
of piety in rememoration and more effectuall representing of the Prototype But quatenus In tearmes there is not much difference you say they must not haue Latria so we You giue them Dulia I quarrell not the terme though I could there is a respect due vnto and honour giuen relatiuely vnto the picture signe resemblance monument of great men friends good men Saints Christ If this you call Dulia we giue it too But whatsoeuer you say howsoeuer you qualifie the thing with gentle words wee say In your practice you farre exceede and giue them that honor which is Latria a part of diuine respect and worship So not wee Let practice and doctrine goe together wee agree So that the question is not What may bee giuen them but What is giuen them You must then change the state and prooue that what you doe is not any way any iot or part of diuine honour but meerely ciuill respect Dulia This you cannot doe so long as your people go to it with down-right adoration and your new Schooles defend that the same respect is due vnto the Representee as must be giuen to the represented So that the Crucifix is to bee reuerenced with the self-same honor that Christ Iesus is A blasphemy not heard of till Thomas Aquinas set it on foote Cleere these enormities and others like these then come and wee may talk and soone agree concerning honor and respect vnto Reliques or Images of Saints or Christ till then we cannot answer it vnto our Maker to giue his honour vnto a Creature XLVI That blessing or signing vpon the forehead is not founded vpon the Scripture BLessing or signing what is that Doubtlesse the man meant signing with the Crosse vpon the forehead otherwise the fellow is more then impudent that fathers this vpon any Protestant that blessing is not founded vpon Scripture And yet this hee would haue his Proselytes beleeue to this his two first Texts are addressed to prooue that Protestants vse no blessing at all in any action diuine morall or ciuill For Mark 10. 16. wee read Hee took them vp in his armes put his hands vpon them and blessed them without any signing in the fore-head therefore hee must needs meane this That Protestants neuer blesse any thing or man whomsoeuer and yet they doe their children euery Morning and Euening and yet they doe their meates euery meale yet in many other actions nothing so frequent as this The like is that Luk. 24. 50. For there is no signing added vnto that blessing onely Reuel 7. 3. there is mention of sealing or signing take whether you will in the fore head and that happly was with the signe of the Crosse But Sir Maleuolo know we vse Blessing as much as you in as many lawfull things as you and more piously than you Wee vse signing with the signe of the Crosse both in the Fore-head and elsewhere Witnes that solemn form in our Baptism for which we are so quarrelled by our Factious Caro signatur vt anima muniatur saith Tertullian and so doo wee They vsed it in Baptism all the world knoweth it They signed their Fore-heads Cyprian Epist 56. and many other places of his Works vpon their hands 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Their whole body and bed Tertul. 2. ad vxorem 5. ad omnem motum habitum the same Tertul de corona milit 3. Whereupon the old Christians were named Religiosi Crucis and yet they neuer adored the Crosse In the Greek Liturgie the signe of the Crosse is frequent The worship of the Crosse is not found Not any of the Fathers auerre that the vse of the Signe they doo all And if you will thank me I will adde as many more Ignat. Epist 5. pa. 48. Clement in constit VIII XII Martial in Epist. ad Burdigal iustin Mart. pa. 285. 58. 92. Euseb de vita Constant. lib. 3. 47. and conclude with that of Athanasius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 By the signe of the Crosse of Christ all Magick Spels are disappointed witchcraft and sorcery cometh to nothing all idols are abandoned and forsaken For the reuerent vse of signing with the signe of the Crosse I knowe no such cause of distraction or dis-affection Our Church alloweth it vseth it and commandeth it and I could tell you some experimented effects of it XLVII That it is both superfluous and superstitious to repeat one and the same prayer sundry times A Strange imputation so false and slanderous as euery child that can read knoweth it is a Lie for in our Liturgie and publique Seruice the Lords Prayer is repeated many times In our Letany how many repetitions of the same thing insomuch as that we cannot escape reprehension for it But this Fellow that set himself to quarrell and whole opus is to maintain a faction on foot raketh vp the retrimenta of each priuate singular contentious spirit and tendreth them as publique receiued doctrines of the Protestants who hold it neither superstitious nor yet superfluous to repeat one and the same Praier oftentimes for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good things may bee remembred once and again and if to man decies repetita placebunt some things cannot bee repeated too often to God It cannot any way discontent God who loueth affection aboue all and we can haue no surer signe of affection than repetition when a man desireth to dwell vpon a thing and not willingly to leaue it as Psal 18. 1. But take wee the Fellow according to his fansie he was not well prouided to prooue a truth by Math. 7. 9. compared with Luke 18. 1. Luke 21. 36. There our Sauior taught his Disciples a set form of Praier as Iohn Baptist had taught his There hee wils them to pray continually to pray and cease not This idle fellow inferrs heerupon How is it possible to perseuere in so short a form of praier except we often repeat the same I grant not possible to continue in praying that Praier without often repetition And who findeth fault with repeating it often Repeat it on Gods Name again and again so often as you haue fingers toes but your repetition will haue no warrant heer for Christ doth not bid them either Luke 18. 1. or 21. 36. repeat the Lords Praier often pray that Praier only and no other often As the matter occasioÌ„s so the form and manner he leaues to themselues and nor there nor elsewhere â—ieth them to any If he did how can the Catholiques answer it to God who haue so many and diuerse set form of praiers beside the Pater noster The Angels Trisagium is more to purpose where Holy is repeated thrice by them and yet short ejaculatory Praiers doo differ from long-contriued Orisons and are much fitter for repetition than these Tertullian saith well Dominus prospector humanarum necessitatum seorsimpost traditam orandi disciplinam Petite inquit accipietis sunt quae petantur pro circumstaÌ„tia cuius 〈◊〉 praemissà legitimâ
et ordinariâ oratione quasi fundamento accidentium ius est desideriorum ius est superstruendi extrinsecus petitiones It was neuer heard of till now that the Lords Prayer should be the onely Prayer a man ought to vse vpon occasion It is a contrary Extreme It was not giuen to be vsed at all The Angels in heauen the soules of the Righteous Christ Iesus in the garden the three children in the fiery furnace vse repetitions of their praiers A sanctis pete perfectis exemplum Vse them a-Gods-name Do as they haue done A good thing cannot be repeated too often I doo not knowe any Puritan will dislike it I haue knowne as great Puritans as any were vse the Lords Praier twice at euery Sermon in the beginning at the end and yet I knowe it was the Puritan opinion at first that The Lords Praier was not so often to bee repeated as it is in our ordinary Seruice T. C. wrote this lib. 1. pa. 136. What reason is this we must repeat the Lords Praier oftentimes therefore oftentimes in half an houre and one in the neck of another Doth your Proposition driue at this Driue a-Gods Name till you driue it down we go with you For it is a singular vpstart nouell Puritan quarrell as infinite other are against the Church in all Ages against the doctrine and discipline of the Church But what is this to Protestants Against Protestants your Gag is directed not Puritans and yet all your addresses well-neer are against Puritan Positions malitiously imputed to Protestants and yet your selues among your selues make a difference betwixt Protestants and Puritans professing If it were not for the Protestant you would not esteem what the Puritan could say and truely For the Protestant commeth vp to you on your owne grounds and vndertaketh you at your own weapons so that you haue no help against him but to bely him with your Proselytes So you began so you continued and so you end this petty Pamphlet For otherwise you may knowe that this very point of often repeating the Lords Praier hath by vs been maintained against Puritan detraction more than by Papists especially by those two Worthies of their time the most reuerend Lord Archbishop Whitgift of blessed memory and that incomparable Hooker concerning whom I may much rather say than of his Works of whom it was said and made by Paulus Thorius Praeter Apostolicas post Christi tempora chartas Huic peperere libro sacula nulla parem In whose words I conclude to this babbler Twice we rehearse it ordinarily and oftner as occasion requireth more solemnity or length in diuine seruice not mistrusting till these new curiosities sprāg vp that euer any man would think our labour heerin mis-spent the time wastfully consumed and the office it self made worse by so repeating that which otherwise would more hardly bee made familiar to the simpler sort for the good of whose Soules there is not in Christian Religion any thing of like continuall vse and force throughout euery houre and moment of their whole liues I meane not onely because Prayer but because this very Prayer is of such efficacy and necessity Know this Sir Gagger that this is our opinion o◠repeating Prayers this our doctrine touching the Lords Prayer repeated or to bee repeated That giddy conceit taken vp by the Puritan faction sometime is none of ours as the faction it self is none of ours no more then Donatists Meletians or Nouatians were antiently the Catholique Church or their fooleries to be imputed to the Church The Factionists would were the innouating humor predominant in them peraduenture prescribe a forme of Religion to Christ Iesus himself were he on earth againe though but to last for a day vnlesse happly they disagreed which fancy should haue precedency For euery Crow thinketh her owne bird fayrer then the neighbours But to conclude with your Fathers that affirme God knoweth what you are to prooue which yet wee desire you not to doe for there is no such neede against vs that It is not superstitious nor yet superfluous to repeat one and the same Prayer oftentimes For this Lactantius is cited lib. 4. de diuinâ institut cap. 28. but might haue beene spared In that Chap. he disputeth against that deriuation which Cicero gaue of superstitiosus That they were called superstitiosi qui totos dies immolabant et precabantur vt sui liberi sibi superstites essent For saith hee Quid mihi afferet causae cur precari pro salute Filiorum semel religiosi et idem decies facere superstitiosi esse hominis arbitretur What reason can Cicero giue mee why it should bee counted religious piety to pray once and superstition to pray often Si enim semel facere optimum est quanto magis saepius Which testimony is direct as may be for praying often but not for saying the said prayer often yet this should be proued not that This is after the Puritan Cut not that Howsoeuer it may touch our Factionists who regard n o Fathers it concerns not vs who respect the one vse the other who profess with the same Lactantius Multiplicata obsequia demerentur potius quam offendunt The next is S. Amb. lib. de Sp. sanct cap. 20. Howsoeuer you haue playd the Idle-pack Addle-head Ignaro or Negligent in the course of your book yet as good Orators in a bad cause lay the strength they haue or can make in the beginning and latter end so should you but who can haue more of a cat then her skinne of a Blunderer then that which is next hand Saint Ambrose wrote three bookes to Gratian the Emperor de spiritu sancto This poore Innocent knew no such matter supposing hee had wrote but one nor caring vnto whom hee wrote it Saint Ambrose lib. de spiritu sancto cap. 20. saith Who can tell what I say Who can tell For the first booke hath 20. Chapters iust in the 20. nothing is that tendeth this way In the second book there are but 12. There can bee nothing in any 20. Chapter there The third hath chapters 23. but nothing touching repetition of Prayers or Prayers at all The truth is beside these bookes there is in some editions another tract without Chapters at all a very very short one de spiritu sancto by some supposed a fourth book to be added vnto the other three by others a seuerall headlesse discourse none of Saint Ambrose doing howsoeuer it be whose-soeuer it should seeme the book which the man would designe For not farre from the end hauing recited that text of Esay 6. Holy holy holy Lord God of Sabbath hee inferreth the custome of the Church for the Trisagium in their ordinary Letany Vnde etiam tractum est per omnes fere Orientales Ecclesias et nonnullas Occidentales vt in oblationibus sacrificiorum quae Deo patri offeruntur vna cum sacerdote voce populus vtatur id est Sanctus sanctus sanctus Dominus Deus
riddles Saint Hier in praefat commen in Eph. Saint Aug. Ep. 119. cap. 21. saith The things c. Saint Gregorie hom 6. in Ezech and many others confesse the same Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible Math. 23. 2. 2. 3. * Note here that he doth not say whosoeuer but whatsoeuer giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that not onely the bonds of sinne but as well all other knots and difficulties in matters of saith and manners are to be loosed by Saint Peter and by the Pastors that succeed him in the Church See more to this effect Deut. 17. 8. See Aggee the 2. and 11. 2 Chron. 19. 8. See Fathers which affirme the same S. Gregor Nazian in Oratione excusat Tertul. lib. de praescrip Haeret S. Cyprian Lib. 1. Epi. 3. S. Aug. lib. 1. cont Cres cap. 33. lib. cont epist Fund ca. 5. Whether now wilt thou beleeue so great a Bishop as S. Anselme or some other Host or Hostesse that sell bottle-ale Contrary to express words of their owne Bible 1. 2. 3. Thas Traditions are to be receiued see more Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer beare great Saint Basil See Fathers that affirme the same S. Basil lib. de spirit Sanct. ca. 27. saith that some things we haue from Tradition of the Apostles both which haue force alike vnto godlinesse Some things wee haue from Scripture other things from the Apostles Traditions both which haue like force vnto godlinesse Shall then the saying of some vnlearned Baker ouer-beare great Saint Basil And consequently cannot erre See more Iohn 16. 13. Therefore it is not forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to bee in a tongue not vnderstood by the Assistants Now the names of the twelue Apostles are these the first Simon which is called Peter Therefore c. And what other thing is it for Peter to confirme and strengthen his brethren than to practice and exercise his greatnesse ouer them For he that doth strengthen and confirme is greater and they who are strengthened c. are made thereby inferiors to him who doth strengthen and confirme them See more for proofe hereof c. See Fathers that affirme the same Theoph. in 22. Luk calleth Peter Prince of the Disciples Eusebius in Chron First Bishop of Christians S. Cyril of Hier. Cat. 2. Prince and most excellent of all the Apostles S. Chrys hom 55. in Mat. Pastor and Head of the Church Cont. Crescon 3. 15. Contrary to their own Bible 2 Thes 2. 3. For so Saint Peter should then be Antichrist for he was Pope and the very first of Popes Therefore the great Antichrist shall be a particular man Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible See more Mat. 16. 19. See Fathers that affirme the same Contrary to the expresse words of your owne Bible Therefore sinnes may be confessed vnto man See the Fathers who affirme the same Tertul. lib. ad Mart. ca. 1. Pope Vrban the second graunted a plenary Indulgence to such as would goe to the Holy-Wars An. Christi 160. Hence hath the ground of Indulgences beene alwayes taken but more principally from the super abundant merit of Iesus Christ Whence it appeareth that man by assistance of Gods grace may doe some things counselled And these we call workes of supererogation See one Father for the same in stead of many I could produce See more Eccles 15. 14. Is it not then plaine wilfulnesse to denye Freewill See Fathers that affirme the same S. Iren. Lib. 4. cap. 7. Contrary to express words of their owne Bible Briefly if the Commandements were impossible they could binde no man For it is not to bee conceiued how one should sinne in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid It is not to be conceiued how one should sin in a thing which hee could not possibly auoid Lastly Saint Basill who saith it is an impious thing to say that the commandements of God are impossible See more 1 Cor. 9. c. See Fathers that affirme the same S. Ambrose de Apolog. Dauid ca. 6. S. Hier. lib. 3. cont Pelag. S. Aug. de spirit lit cap. vlt. 1. 2. 3. Contrary to the expresse words of their owne Bible See more Ose 13. 9 c. See Fathers that affirm the same S. Aug. lib. 1. ciuit Tert. de Orat cap. 8. S. Cyprian Lib. 4. Epist 2. S. Ambrose Lib. 2. de Cain et Abel will nâ—t that we refer vnto God the preuarication of Adam or treason of Iudas though hee knew the sin before it was committed Contrary to their owne Bible Therefore S. Paul himself was not assured infallibly A point of doctrine so improbable that we will not labour to ouerthrowe it by any further proof of Fathers Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible Mat. 18. 10 Therefore they had their Angell-keeper This very passage Saint Cyril of Alexandria Lib. 4. con Iulian. applieth to our Angel-keeper See more Acts 12. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 10. Contrary to expresse words in your owne Bibles Zach. 1. 9 10 11. Now what I pray you is a praier if this be not Contrary to their owne Bible That this was spoken to a true Angell and not to Christ Basil l. 3. c. Eunomium S. Chrys ho. 7. in laud. S. Pauli and vpon 1. of Col. and S. Hier. vpon 66 of Esay Which beeing so who for shame can say He prayed not vnto him See Fathers that affirme what hath beene said touching Angels For some such my self haue met with Therefore Saints deceased haue appearea to some on earth At Saint August witnesseth Lib. de cura mortis cap. 14. Nor can any be so senslesse as to say they pray for them selues Contrary to their owne Bible If an Horse or an Asse should pray c. Where note that Theodoret paraphrasing vpon Baruch interpreteth this very place as Catholiques doo Now is the Sunne more cleare than that Saints pray for vs Iob 1. 5. 〈◊〉 S. August himself expounds this very place as Catholiques doo in his Annot. vpon Iob. If it had not been the common custome in the time of Iob to inuocate the Saints deceased it had bin friuâ—lous for Eliphas to haue asked Iob to which of the Saints he wou'd t 〈…〉 See more Contrarie to expresse words of their owne Bibles In second of Kings but is the 4 by the account of Catholiques 13. 21. S. Chrysost To. 5. cont Gentil quòd Christus sit Deus in an whole Booke proues heerby and by the like vertue of other Saints that Christ their Lord and Master is God whose seruants napkins and shadows could do such wonders Are they not therefore fooles and blind that keepe such a â—ooting at Holy-bread Hooker Poor Protestant whither now is thy figure fled See Fathers that affirm the same S. Ignat. in his Epist ad Smyr Iustin Mar. Apol. 2. ad Antoninum Now say the truth and shame the Diuell are not they sick in their wits which will oppose such plaine Scriptures Deuter. 23. 22. Psal 66. 13. Psal 19. 11. 1. Tim. Math. 5. 12. Ier. 35. 5. Therefore it is grounded c. Contrary to their owne Bibles These freed Captiues cannot bee the soules of the Saued which no man in his right wits can call Captiues nor of the damned for so the diuels should be brought again into heauen Therefore they were the soules of the Fathers which Christ deliuered out of hell Acts 2. 27. Which very words Saint August applieth to the paint of Purgatory and addeth Who but an Infidel will deny Christ to haue descended into hell Ep. 99. ad Euodium Saint Ambrose Ser. 20 in Psal 118. Saint Hierome vpon 4 of Amos Saint August vpon the 37 Psal Saint Gregory lib. 4. Dial. explicate this very place of Purgatory Heb. 9. 1. 5. Lo Saint Paul calleth the pictures of the Cherubins which Salomon made an Ordinance of diuine Seruice which Protestants call the making of Idols who now shall we beleeue whether S. Paul or a Protestant When painting and grauing of 〈◊〉 tures is so farre from beeing Idolatry that it is prooued to be a Science diuinely infused by God himself Contrary to expresse words of their owne Bible and he said Draw not nigh hither c. Lo how cleer a place is produced heer against Protestants where an insensible â—reature without reason was commanded by God himselfe to be honored Now the principal reason why the Arke was worshipped was in regard of the Images that were vpon it which as S. Ierom saith the lewes did worship in his Ep. ad Marcellan Num. 21. 8. Hence are euidently prooued diuers things against Protestants c. See Fathers that affirme the same Saint Ambrose Ser. 1. in Psal 118. Where first our Lord hauing taught his owne Disciples that excellent Prayer of all praiers which hee would haue them to offer to him the Pater noster or our Lords Praier hee afterwards in many other places willeth them to pray alwaies as Luke 18. 1. The Angels in the Prophet Esay Esay 6. and the beasts in the Apoc. Apo. 4. which rest neither dâ—y nor night do thrice repeat c.