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A05212 A disputation of the Church wherein the old religion is maintained. V.M.C.F.E. Lechmere, Edmund, d. 1640?; F. E., fl. 1629. 1629 (1629) STC 15348; ESTC S100251 235,937 466

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an attire of a Apoc. 3. ● 4. saincts and crowned after the b 2. Ti. 4.8 victorie as it seemes with golden c Apoc. 14. v. 14. crownes ād sitting being now at d Ibid. v. 13. rest vppon thrones round about the throne of Christ in heauen are not saincts there raigning with Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * He that shall ouercome and keepe my works vnto the end I will giue him power 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ouer Nations so your selues turne it And he shall rule them with a rod of yron Apoc. 2. v. ●6 see Matt. 25. v. 21. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I will make ruler ouer many things ouer the earth or if wee must beleeue that the Saincts whose prayers they present be not holie men on earth you must bring not a guesse but a theologicall demōstration for it I was here to bring the letter and I stick to it and cānot be remoued vnles you shew cleere Scripture for Tradition you looke not after against the sēse I take it in ād that it be so iudged not by you for I esteeme not your iudgmēt but by the Catholique Church which is impossible as you knowe by that which she beleeueth in this point Obserue this for the next Angels offer prayers Apoc. 8. v. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ād others after that I neede not repeate it Another Angel came and stood before the alter hauing a golden censa● and there were giuen to him many incenses that he should giue of the prayers of all saincts vppon the alter of gold which is before the throne of God And the smoke of the incenses of the prayers of the saincts ascended frō the hand of the Angell before God Thus for Angells and Saincts offering the prayers of the Church vnto God and in this is included essentiallie that they do take them after their intellectuall manner that is vnderstand them Heerevppon the Church doth call vppon them and so did the Aūcient Fathers whose Testimony and Spirit might haue suffised for our example Wee beleeue allso that it is good to pray for the Deade You say no. Calu. 3. Inst c. 5. The Scripture It is a holy and behouefull cogitation to pray for the deade 2. Mac. 12.46 Prayer for the dead S. Aug. l. 8. de ciuit c. 36. that they may be released from their sinnes I said the scripture because to vse here S. Augustines words not my owne Tbe bookes of the Machabees not the Iewes but the Church esteemeth Canonicall And what Spirit is to iudge which is scripture which not you shall haue examined hereafter at large 48. Concerning the distinction of works into some that are commanded others that are not which distinction you reiect Wee beleeue that there are some works not commanded yet proposed by way of Counsell for attaining of greater perfection You say no Matth 9. v. 21. Euangelicall Luth. de Vot monast Caluin 4. Inst ca. 13. The scripture If thou wilt he perfect goe sell the tbings which thou hast and giue to the poore and thou shalt haue treasure in heauen and come followe me Counsells 1. Cor. 7. v. 25. Ibid. v. 40. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the Apostle Concerning virgines I haue not a commandement from our lord but counsell I giue And againe She the vnmaried shall be more blessed if she remaine so according to my Counsell Wee beleeue that single life consecrated vnto God is better then wedlocke You say No. Luth. Serm. de Matr. Caluin in 1. Cor. 7. The scripture He which ioyneth his virgin in matrimonie doth well and he which ioyneth her not doth better 1. Cor. 7. v. 38. Wee beleeue that Religious profession vnder vowe is according to the word of God Single life Isay 19.21 Vowes You say No. Luth de Vot Monast Calu. 4. Inst c. 13. The scripture They shall vowe vowes to our lord and shall paie them And we beleeue they are in conscience bound to pay their vowes You say no. Luth. Cal. cit The scripture Vowe ye and render to our lord God Psal 75.12 Let me note here by the way that you discouer your Church not be Gods since it contemnes these things which God foretould would be in his and approoues as good and if the thing were to be tried by the Spirit in any man any man of iudgment would rather acknowledge the Spirit of S. Bennet and S. Francis which God by miracles recorded by saincts allso hath witnessed to be from him then your spirit vnderstanding this scripture oppositelie to their spirit 49. As for the commandements Wee beleeue that he which will attaine to euerlastīg life must keepe them Mat. 19.17 Psal 14.2 Commaundemēts kept You say no. Luth. in 3. Gal. Calu. in 5. Act. The scripture If thou wilt enter into life keepe the commandements lord who shall dwell in thy tabernacle or who shall rest in thy holie hill he that walketh without Spot and worketh iustice You say they are intollerable Lut. de Libert Christ Calu. Antidot Conc. Trid. sess 6. c. 12. wee say no. The scripture His commandements are not heauie wee beleeue that they may be and haue bene obserued 1. Io. 5.3 You say No. Luth. in 4. Gal. calu in 3. Rom. The scriptute Zacharie and Elizabeth were both iust before God Luk. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal· 18. v. 8.12 walking in all the commandements and iustifications of our lord without blame The lawe of our lord is immaculate cōuerting soules c. the iudgments of our lord be true for thy seruāt keepeth them in keeping them there is much Reward And of King Iosias the scripture saith that he returned to our Lord in all his hart Psal 118.55 4. Kings 23. v. 5. and in all his sowle and in all his power according to all the law of Moyses Thow sawest a fewe names in Sardis which haue Not defiled their garmēts ād they shall walke with me in whites for they are worthy Apoc. 3.4 I must adde one more for your cōfort who bragge that you knowe God better and are more familiarlie admitted to his secret counsells and dearer to the spirit then other men 1. Io. 2 v. 3.4 c. In this wee knowe that wee haue knowne him if wee obserue his commandements He that sayeth he knoweth him Protestāts liers the Apostles kept it Io. 17.6 and keepeth not his commandements is a lier and the truth is not in him but he that keepeth his word in him in Verie Deede the charitie of God is perfited in this wee knowe that wee be in him 50 Wee beleeue that there is iustice inherēt in men Dan. 6.22 Iustice inherēr 1. Io. 3.7 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is such in the sight and iudgment of God You say No. Luth. in 3. Gal. calu· in 8. Rom. Daniel in the scripture Before him God iustice hath bene found in me He that doth iustice is iust
the sixt Age wee haue the Testimony of seuerall * Concil Agath cap 470 Gerū den cap. 1 Aurelian ● 28. Turonens 2 cap 3. 4. Constātin act 1. citat Ga●ret Co. Gualt S. Greg. Magn. 4. Dial. c. 58 Hom. 37. in Euā S. Aug. l. 1● de Ciuit. c 22. Councells celebrated in many Nations wherein there is such expresse mention of the Masse as no tergiuersation can suffice But omitting that as allso the testimony of Remigius Cassiodorus Fulgentius and others of that time I content my self with the place before cited out of S. Gregorie because he was in communion with all the world Christ liuing himself immortallie is AGAINE SACRIFICED FOR VS in this Mysterie of the holie oblation In the begining of the sift age liued S. Augustine whē Melchisedech did blesse Abraham there first appeared the Sacrifice which is offered now to God by Christians in ALL THE WORLD wee do not erect Altars wherein to sacrifice to Martyrs Idem l. 22 c. 10. but wee doe offer sacrifice to their God and ours The Sacrifice it self is the bodie of Christ And to the Iewes Open your eies at leingth Ibid. and see frō the east to the west not in one place as it was appointed you but in EVERIE PLACE offered the Sacrifice of the Christians Idem orat cont Iud. c 9.10.6 vide eundem de Ciuit. l. 17. c. 17. l. 18. c. 35. S. Ierom. adu Vigilant c. 3. vide S. Amb. ad Ps 38. not to what God soeuer but to the God of Israel who foretold it In the fourth age liued S. Ierome Ill therefore doth the Bysshop of Rome who ouer the venerable bones base dust according to thee Vigilantius of deade men Peeter and Paul doth offer Sacrifice and thinks their tombes to be Altars and this the Bisshops not of one towne onelie but of ALL THE WORLD doe who contemning Vigilantius enter into the Churches of the deade And Eusebius Bisshop of Caesarea speaking of those words of the Psalmist thou hast prepared a table in my sight c. He doth saith he Euseb Caesar Demonstr Euang l. 1. c. 10. in this openlie signifie the mysticall vnction and horrour-bringing Sacrifices of the table of Christ wherein operating wee are taught to offer VNBLOODIE and reasonable and sweete VICTIMES in our whole life to the most high God by his most eminent Priest of all And a little after vppon a place of Esaie they shall drinke wine c. Ibid. He doth prophecie to the Gentiles saith he the ioy of wine signifying therein somewhat obscurelie the mysterie of the newe Testament BY CHRIST instituted Idem orat de L●●d Constant which at this daie verilie IS OPENLIE celebrated in ALL NATIONS The same man in his Oration in the commendation of Constantine tells of Churches Altars Vide Cyp. l. 2. Ep. 3. and sacrifices in the whole world In the begining of the third age Sainct Cyprian did liue who saith S. Cypr. lib 1. ep 9. all that are honoured with diuine Priesthood and placed in Clericall ministerie ought not to serue but the Altar and Sacrifices and to follow their prayers and deuotions Our Lord ād God Iesus Christ is himself the most high Priest of God the Father Idem lib. ● ep 3. and he first of all hath offered SACRIFICE to God the Father and hath commaunded THE SAME to be donne for a commemoration of him Tertullian Tertall l. ad Scapul c. 2. S. Iren. l. 4. adu Haere c. 32. wee doe offer Sacrifice for the saftie of the Emperour to our God and his In the second age liued Ireneus and Iustinus both Saincts the one saith He Christ tooke that breade which is of the creature and gaue thankes saying this is my bodie and likewise he cōfessed the Chalice which is of the creature which is according vnto vs to be his blood ād taught the new oblation of the new testament which the Church RECEAVING FROM THE APOSTLES doth offer to god in ALL THE WORLD S. Iustin Dial. cum Tryphone The other Euen then he Malichias foretold of our Sacrifices of Gentiles which are offered IN EVERIE PLACE that is of the breade of the Eucharist and the cuppe likewise of the Eucharist c. Ibid. God preuenting doth wittnes all those to be gratefull vnto him who offer thorough his name the sacrifices which Iesus Christ deliuered to be donne that is in the Eucharist of breade and the Chalice which are donne by Christians IN EVERIE PLACE 76. And heere I name againe the Liturgies of the Churches of Rome of Alexādria of Ierusalem and of Aethiopia wherein is euident acknowledgmēt of this Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine whereof I speake in so much that all these Liturgies and generallie the Liturgies of all knowne Christian Churches that euer yet were of anie note in the world consent and agree heerein If you denie these were auncient I bringe against you all these Churches who professe and beleeue to haue receaued them from hand to hand euen from the Apostles Thus other bookes haue beene deliuered vnto vs from Antiquitie And this Tradition must haue equall force in the deliuering of these bookes I adde further that all Churches cannot erre in tradition of Bookes otherwise you could neither be certaine of anie worke of anie Father as of S. Augustine S. Ierom c. nor of anie part of the Bible since therefore all knowne Churches agree in the receipt of the Liturgie from the Apostles you must beleeue it or else with the same pretense you may refuse the Bible too 77. Next I name the Apostles who taught a propitiatorie Vnbloodie Sacrifice in forme of breade and wine and did also say Masse Our B. Sauiour also at his last supper did offer this die Sacrifice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sacrificantibus autem illis domino Act. 13. v. 2. vert Eras remember what I cited but now out of S. Ireneus The Liturgies of S. Peeter S. Iames S. Matthew and Sainct Mark are yet extant as I haue declared by the Gospell in the first booke and the thing is so cleere that you cannot auoide it if you take the words of Scripture in their proper sense as the Church hath euer donne So well is the Masse grounded for which wee suffer now In the Masse you are to distinguish the substance of the sacrifice oblation consecration and the consumption of the sacred hoast or eating of the victime in this vnbloodie forme by the Priest from the Epistle Gospell prayers ceremonies c. the first was euer since and euerie where the same the second not names of Saincts prayers ceremonies might be and yet may be changed by the Church 78. To all this I adde further the testimonie of the holie Ghost the Spirit of Truth and Interpreter of Gods word for that sense wherein the Catholique Church spred ouer the world doth and euer did from the begining vniuersallie consent
is not in the a mouthes of the faithfull that b thing is not in the forme of breade Iudas did not c receaue the body but onely a peece of breade That in the Chalice was neuer d in our Sauiours side The body which the Sages worshipped is not ō the e Altar The bodie of Christ is not f heere on earth nor in the dimensions wee do see touch and receaue Christ is not g Sacrificed on the Altar by the Priest The humanitie of Christ is not on the h Altar Compare it 48. Fiftly it being the same bodie which is in heauen Christ I say being in the Eucharist ād the Fathers professing this it followeth that he is there allso in the Eucharist to be adored and this the Fathers allso did acknowledge you remember what I repeated euen now out of S. Chrysostome take more out of others S. Gregorie saith of his sister Gorgonia S Greg. Naz. orat 11. She prostrateth her selfe with faith before the Altar and with a greate crie calleth on him who is 1 worshippeed on it the said Altar You must obserue heere that S. Gregorie doth not onely declare the action of his Sister but allso the Custome of the primitiue Church in these words who is worshipped on it and then you will see that Christians in those dayes did worshippe our Sauiour on the Altar S. Augustine S. Aug in ●sal 98. Our Sauiour tooke flesh of the virgin Marie ād because he walked heere in that flesh and hath giuen vs that flesh to be eaten to Saluation and no man eateth that flesh vnles he first adore 2 it behold wee haue found our in what manner such a foote-stoole of our Lords feete his flesh may be adored and how that wee doe not sinne by adoring it Id. Ep. 120. c. 27. but wee sinne by not adoring it The rich come indeed to the table they eate and adore but are not filled Sainct Ambrose By the foote stoole vnderstand the earth S. Ambr. l. 3. de sp s c. 12 by the earth the flesh of Christ which yeauen at this day wee 3 adore in the mysteries and which the Apostles did adore in our Lord Iesus Christ Theodoret Theodor. Dial 2. The mysticall signes are vnderstood to be that they are made by consecration vzt the bodie and blood of Christ and they are beleeued and 4 adored as being that they are beleeued to be O most diuine S. Dionys Eccl. Hierarch c. 3. De lib ist autho vide Baron a. 109. Mart. Delr Vindic. Areopagit Gualt Chron. c. 28 secu 1. ver 1 ād holie Sacrifice open those mysticall and signifying veiles wherewith thou art couered shewe thy selfe cleerely vnto vs and 5 replenish our spirituall eies with thy singular and reueiled brightnes 49. The Protestant Opinion 1 No bodie is worshipped on the Alter the flesh of Christ in the 2 Sacrament is not to be adored It is not to be adored in the 3 Mysteries the Sacrament is 4 not adored there is no bodie in the Eucharist or vnder those signes that can heare or 5 is to be prayed vnto Compare 50. Sixtlie the Fathers say the Bodie of Iesus Christ is heere immolated after ā vnbloodie māner that this vnbloodie Sacrifice offered by the Christiās is in substāce the bodie of Christ that it is the host which was offered ō the Crosse and the price of our redemption which things agree no more to bakers breade then adoration and the rest whereof I haue spoken before but onelie to the true bodie of Iesus Christ S. Ignat. Ep ad Smyr ap Theod. dial 3. S. Chrys or 17. in Ep. Hebr. They the Simonians and Saturnians old Hereticks admit not Eucharists a and Oblations because they do not confesse the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Sauiour which suffered for our sinnes Wee do still offer the same not another now but euer the same and for this reason the Sacrifice is one as being offered in b many places it is one bodie not many bodies Ibid. so allso the sacrifice is one It is our high Priest who hath offered the hoast which doth cleanse vs and wee allso now do offerre the same which was then offerred ●d hom 51. ● Mat. ●o ad pop ●ntioch Cyr. A●● declar ●nat 11. which cannot be consumed Let vs heare and tremble he Christ hath put himselfe c immolated before vs. wee celebrate in the Church the holie quickning and d vnbloodie Sacrifice beleeuing not that that which is shewed is the bodie of some common man like vs and his blood but wee receaue it rather as the life giuing Words owne flesh and blood ●onc Nic ●ct Vatic ●p de di●na mens ●c testim ●oscunt ●colamp ●uin ●quin ●blit ●e Bell. l ●e Sa. ● c. 10. In the diuine table let vs not abase our thoughts to consider the breade and cuppe which is set there vppon but rather erecting our minde and fixing it on high let vs by faith vnderstand that there is present vppon that holie e table the lambe of God that taketh away the sinnes of the world who is offered in Sacrifice by the Priest without slaughtering and wee verilie receauing his bodie and blood let vs beleeue that these things are the pledges of our Saluation and resurrection This hoste doth singularlie preserue the soule from eternall damnation which hoste doth repaire vnto vs by mysterie that death of the onely begotten S. Greg. l. 4 Dial. c. 58. Pro nobis ITERVM in hoc mysterio sacra Oblationis immolatur who rising from the deade now dieth not yet liuing in himselfe immortallie and incorruptiblie he is againe Sacrificed for vs in this mysterie of the holie Oblation Hether appertaines that which S. Augustine writeth of his mother a good Christian woman of the Religion then common that departing out of this world she desired memorie to be made of her at the Altar S. Aug. 9. Confes ●● 13. from g whence she knewe the holie Sacrifice to be dispenced wherewith the inditement against vs was blotted out Then he commendes her sowle to the praiers of such as reade his Booke Obserue what and where this thing was it was the victime or Sacrifice wherewith the ransome was paid for our sinnes this is not bread I trow and this was on the Altar and therehence dispenced as you heard from S. Augustines mouth And there adored in the mysteries as you heard before Optat. l. 6. Wherevppon wee find the Altar allso called the seate of the body and blood of our Lord. Hether also doth appertaine that which wee finde in Antiquitie about offering sacrifice for the deade which you may reade ar your leisure in others for I haue ben alreadie to long in this 51. The Protestant opinion no Eucharisticall a Oblation is to be admitted it is not the flesh of Christ that suffered for vs. The sacrifice of the bodie of Christ is not offered in b many places Christ is noe more c
nimirum qui voto propositum illum caelestem panem edentes fide viua quae per dilectionem operatur fructum eius vtilitatem sentiunt tertios porrò SACRAMENTALITER simul SPIRITVALITER Conc. Trid. sess 13 cap. 8. If you vnderstand this as it is easie you will vnderstand many passages of the Fathers which doe concerne the communion Dupliciter caro Christi sanguis intelligitur vel SPIRITVALIS ILLA atque diuina de qua ipse dixi caro mea verè est cibus eadem substantia cōparata ad diuersos modos existendi sanguis meus verè est potus Vel caro sanguis qua CRVCIFIXA est qai militis effusus est lancea Iuxta hanc diuisionem in Sanctis eius diuersitas sanguinis carnis accipitur vt ALIA sit caro quae visura est salutare Dei alia caro sanguis quae regnum Dei NON qu●ant possidere S. Hieron Comment in cap. 1. ad Ephes Learne this all well and when you reade S. Augustine it will do you good Flesh and blood cannot possesse the kingdome of God 1. Cor. 15. v. 50. you would thinke this to be against the Article of the Resurrection reade the whole Chapter and marke the Apostles distinction of a bodie into a naturall body and a spirituall bodie and this spirituall bodie in substance is the same bodie which heere nature framed consisting of flesh and blood and this you beleeue the Resurrection See Card. Peron his Treatise of the Eucharist Paris 1622. comes to the communicants mouth Yea some tymes he is receaued vnworthilie as you may reade in S. Paul 1. Cor. 11. but those receauers haue not the spirituall effect and coniunction they receaue the bodie into their bodies they receaue not grace into their sowles from this bodie because they receaue it vnworthilie and not as the bodie of Christ a thing most holie by reason of the vniō to the diuine person ought to be receaued 72. As for signes some doe signifie things present some things absent The Eucharist is a Sacrament and therefore a signe it is a signe of grace and a signe of the bodie of Christ present So the forme doth signifie This is my bodie and so the species vnder these words doe signifie to good Christians to all those that beleeue Iesus Christ S. Aug. enarrat ps 3. cont Adimant c. 12. This mysterie is allso a representation of the bloodie passion as I said before it is a figure of that sacrifice yet a Sacrifice too The word of God is the figure of the Fathers substance and yet he is a diuine person too The same thing may haue diuers attributes one not excluding another the Eucharist is a signe a representation an oblation a Sacrifice and in it are reallie the bodie and blood of Christ yea Christ himselfe is there All these doe consist one doth not exclude the other 73. Lastlie to conclude this matter I wish you to reflect that opposing the Masse as you doe you oppose all the Christian world that was before Luther This I will declare brieflie In Antioche Alexādria Ierusalem Aethiopia Chaldaea East India First it is manifest that all knowne Christian Churches in the age before Luther did frequent the Masse In all Europe in all parts of Asia and Africke where anie Christians were The Christians in the partes latelie discouered all were found to frequent the Masse Allso the Nestorians and Eutichians in Aegypt the Russians Muscouites and Grecians all frequent the Masse Which is an euident argument they had it by tradition from the Apostles Both those who knewe nothing of the Bishop of Rome and those who knew him but obaied him not all agreed in the substāce of the Masse or vnbloody Sacrifice who taught the world for such vniformitie and consent of so many Nations so dispersed and some to the rest wholie vnknowne in so darke a Mysterie as this is could not be from any naturall cause Secōdlie all these Churches that is all the knowne Churches in the world did beleeue they were thus to doe by the institution of Iesus Christ and the Tradition of the Apostles And among these the true Church was one because that is euer visible by her profession as I haue prooued Whence it followeth that the frequenting of Masse is approoued by the Spirit of the true Church S. Aug. l. 4. de bapt c. 6 and consequentlie it cannot be an ertour Thirdlie that custome which men euen then looking vpwards did not see instituted by those which were later then the Apostles is well beleeued to haue beene deliuered by the Apostles saith S. Augustine But all these Churches Infinite eies looking vpwards could not see the Institution of vnbloodie Sacrifice or Masse later then the Apostles which is manifest because they all receaued it as diuine and Apostolicall Therefore by S. Augustines rule it is well beleeued so to be 74. For the later ages you easilie admitte they wēt to Masse and that they beleeued an Vnbloodie Sacrifice for the Primitiue Church you are yet some what doubtfull it seemes what to doe Missa abominatio in calice aureo propin●●a omnes reges terra populos a sūmo vsque ad nouissimum sic inebriauit vt proram puppim sua salutis in hac vna voragine statuerint Cal. 4. Inst c. 18. Let me helpe you forward to resolue vppon the truth That vnbloody Sacrifice in the formes of breade and wine which wee call the Masse was frequented by the Primitiue Church I prooue first by the consent of all Christian Churches euer since ād by their liturgies which as all these Churches doe testifie were deliuered them from the Church Primitiue Among these haue beene infinite wise men and greate Schollers as in another place I did argue They had better meanes to know the practise of the Primitiue Church then wee haue being neerer and some of them immediate The matter as frequentation of the Masse and their exteriour profession of their faith touching these things was subiect to the sēse And amōg these was the catholique Church the spouse of Iesus Christ hauing the Assistance of the holie Ghost to discerne the true worshippe of allmightie God The testimonie of all these is sufficient to make vs beleeue that the Primitiue Church went to Masse or no testimonie of men is sufficient in any cause 75. I goe neerer In the begining of the seuenth age liued Isidorus S. Isid l. 1. Offic. c. 15. plura c. 18. Bisshoppe of Ciuil and a Sainct and he saith the order of Masse or prayers whereby SacrificeS offered vnto God are consecrated was first instituted by S. Peeter the celebration whereof saith he THE WHOLE VVORLD doth performe after one and the same manner All this world sure had meanes to knowe what their Fathers in the age before had donne better then wee they had their books they had conuersed with manie of thē let vs ascende In