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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	ordain_v	ordination_n	presbyter_n	4,289	5	10.5064	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85043	The churches and ministery of England, true churches and true ministery. Cleared, and proved, in a sermon / preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe; before a numerous congregation assembled together to hear the opposition, which had been long threatned to be made that day, by Mr Collier and others of his party, who, with the greatest strength the West would afford them, were present at the sermon. Wherein were these five things undeniably proved: 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall saints, is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true church. ... 5. And then, they also must needs be guilty, who forsake true churches and a lawfull ministry, to follow and hear unsent preachers. By Francis Fullwood minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the county of Somerset. Before it there is an epistle and preface, shewing the manner, and a narrative subjoyned shewing the substance of the dispute after the sermon, (both which lasted nine hours.) Set forth by the ministers that were at the dispute, and attested under their hands.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.; Darby, Charls.; Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.	1652 (1652)	Wing F2498; Thomason E671_2; ESTC R202166	72,915	100

if they had said by what authority do or may we preach why do not doubt saies Christ My Father sent me and in his sending me he gave me Authority to send others As he sent me so I say or by that I had power to send you and give you power to send others He sent me to preach and ordain I send you to preach and ordain and do you send others to preach and ordain c. therefore we finde the Apostles executing their Commission accordingly along as occasion requires Paul sends Timothy Titus c. bidding them ordain and so successively to the end of the world which thing is most plain in the Text we are upon with regard to the persons ordaining and ordained Persons ordaining are Prophets and Teachers and persons ordained in this ordinary sending what power receive they they are sent 't is most apparent by an ordinary sending and what to do I pray you why to preach ver 5. and to ordain Elders in every Church c. 13. 23. clearly intimating that Ministers by their very Ordination have power to ordain as well as to preach 4. If a Presbytery have power to ordain then ordinary Ministers have power to ordain for a Presbytery is nothing but a Colledge-combination or company of Presbyters or ordinary Ministers But a Presbytery hath power to ordain for Timothy was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery Object But there were Apostles in these Presbyteries Answ What if this strengthens the Argument if rightly considered for if it was counted an act of the Presbytery when Apostles were there it appears that the Apostles joyning with ordinary Elders acted as Elders and not as Apostles or extraordinary Officers there being Apostles in the Presbytery that doeth ordain and yet Ordination is said to be done by the Presbytery cleerly shews that Ordination is a proper act of an ordinary Presbytery and not of Apostles as so and to make it out of doubt Ordination is defin'd in that text to be the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery But this hands me to another Argument 5. If ordinary Officers had a hand in Ordination in Apostles times much more and safer may they ordain now there are no extraordinary Officers among us The minor implied is already proved and for the consequence I say much more but how so why because à pari the people where there are no Ministers to do their work have power to Ordain by the warrant of necessity then much more ordinary Ministers may now there are none extraordinary left if they as so had a hand in Ordination by the like warrant and law of necessity And now that that confirms me about all doubting touching the Ordination of ordinary Officers is the practice of the primitive Churches next the Apostles and so down along through all ages and Churches to this day without interruption or contradiction unless by a few inconsiderable men as the Seekers are Thus we have shew'd what Gospel Ordination is and in Conclusion whose hands the power of ordaining lies it is a setting men apart with fasting and prayer and laying on of hands by preaching Elders which is indeed in every jot and title of it the very same with the Ordination allow'd and practic'd in the Church of England time out of mind The additional Ceremonies and harsh Oaths are taken away and we now have nothing left but pure Ordination according to the word so that the word doth allow us lawfull Ministers because we have what the word requires to make us so Obj. To say we were ordained by Bishops is not worth the while for still there were ordinary Presbyters joyned with them and they themselves were no more but ordinary Presbyters though they thought themselves more their thought could not add one cubit to their stature whom neither Church nor State did ever declare to be a superior Order to other Presbyters But for this I refer you to Mr Seaman who hath given five Answers to this very Objection every one of which are so sound and solid that they are single and apart from each other abundantly satisfying See 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 85. Object But the great Objection yet remains viz. That we must needs be Antichristian because by a line of succession we descended from Antichrist this indeed is all they have to say against our Ministery Answ There are two knots in the line of succession of the Gospel-Ministery to our times The first is as it passeth the bounds of the Apostles daies and this the Seekers tie but we have already dissolved it The other is in the passage of it from the Church of Rome to the reformed Churches as it lies in this objection Four Arguments to cleer the succession of Ordination made by Brownists Anabaptists c. which I shall now untie I shall touch but four Arguments for I am in hast every of which experience hath proved very effectuall 1. I judge it a truth not to be question'd that there hath been certain Ministers of Christ in the world ever since there were any and more certain it is that there were true Ministers in the Church of Rome when our first Reformers began to think of breaking off from her for there was conversion there else God would not have had a people there and conversion is the work of sent Ministers Rom. 10. 14 15. now can any man in reason think that those that forsook both Rome and her harlotry and obey'd that known command of God and come out from Rome were not the best of the Ministers there and so by consequence the Ministers of Christ if there were any which may not be doubted Yea therefore remarkeable providence did seal to their Ministery immediately upon their leaving Rome being used by God to preach that doctrine and presse that command Come out of her my people and to prevail with a great number to follow their steps and leave the whore And when God by them had drawn his people into the wildernesse he did feed them there by the same Pastors Rev. 12. 6 and 14. which helps me to conclude that as the best of the members leaving Rome were owned by God for the true Church so the first of the Ministers leaving Rome were acknowledged by God for the true Ministery every man abiding in that calling wherein he was called whether members or Ministers 2. Again It is not so much as question'd but that our first reformers had an inward Call and if their outward call be question'd it is no great matter since both we and our adversaries agree in this that in such a strait and a case so extraordinary as that was the people are bound to chuse and call a Minister and theirs is valid no man doubts in such a case and therefore the Call of our first Reformers may not be questioned by our opponents any more untill they leave their Principles since it was confirmed by God and the

and Ordination confer'd as a Rule for the practice of suceeding Churches to the end of the world 2. If we doubt of the meaning of the Text let us weigh and consider its interpretation in the practice of the Primitive Churches afterwards as also of all the Churches of Christ since those daies for the practice of both doth undoubtedly conclude that this was ordinary Ordination but the doubt lies not touching the practice of future Churches for that 's without doubt that all the Records of former Churches since the Apostles mention Nos enim sai h Tarno of the business in hand necessarium existionamus secundum quid nimirum quia citra scandalum omitti hodiè non potest qui tot annos in ecclesiâ ufitatus fuit no other Ordination but this and though this hath much weight in it doubtlesse and nothing lesse then presumption will offer to question the uninterrupted practice of the Churches throughout all ages since the primitive times yet let us consider Was it not so also from the beginning do we reade of any other Ordination in the Primitive Churches but this Did not Paul and Barnabas ordain others in the same manner Act. 14. 23. Did not Paul charge Timothy with the same order the negative command containing an affirmative when he said Lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5 22 and did not the Apostles take the same course in Act. 6 Indeed the Scripture speaks more carelesly of the Ceremonies Note of it in some places taking no notice of one nor in some of another c. though we cannot thence argue they were omitted and all that we can gather from such a non-mentioning of them is this that the Ceremonies seem to be of weaker necessity then the substance of our call which is still most carefully noted and expressed by the holy Ghost in every place that mentions any thing of Ordination by the substance I mean here as before a solemn separating and setting apart by the Church for the work of the Ministery but however unlesse you can shew us some place of Scripture where this way of Ordination by fasting and prayer and laying on of hands is forbidden or where another way or course is appointed and used we may not safely lay aside the old much lesse presume to invent a new alas what harm or danger is there in fasting and praier the most happy Christian means to solemnize and speed an important businesse or in laying on of hands whose three uses in Scripture Gen. 48 14 20 concurre and meet in ordaining Ministers viz. blessing * Num. 8. 12. consecrating and setting apart unto an office So much for the nature of Ordination it self now follows the Persons ordaining consideration of the persons in whose hands the power of ordaining lies Who are either principall according to the Text or ministeriall 1. Principall the holy Ghost The principall person ordaining here is the holy Ghost touching whose act in this businesse the Text affords two expressions the one before the other after the mediate Ordination of the Church the first we have in ver 2. the holy Ghost said separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them Whence we note That an inward or secret call by the holy Ghost is not enough according Observ 1. to the order and rule of the Gospel but requires for the regular making a Minister the formall Ordination of the Church besides Or Whom the holy Ghost doth call to be Ministers he doth hint to the Church to be ordained The second expression that discovers the finger of the holy Ghost here we have immediately after the Churches Ordination ver 3. in ver 4. so they being sent forth by the holy Ghost Whence Those that be ordained according to the Rule by the Church of Christ may be said to be sent by the holy Ghost And when they hed fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them they sent them away and the very next words are v. 4. so they being sent by the holy Ghost 2. The Ministeriall persons sending or ordaining here you 2. Ministeriall ordinary teaching Elders have described in ver 3. Such as ministred to the Lord by office Ministers and nam'd vers 1. 1. From their Offices Certain Prophets and Teachers 2. By their proper names Barnabas Simeon Lucius Manaen and Saul These were ministring these were spoke to by the holy Ghost the rest fasted and prayed and laid on their hands on Barnabas and Saul and sent them away So then the persons ordaining here were Prophets and Teachers which names do signifie their offices and are in this place sy●●nimous as Marlorat judgeth mark then they are not called Apostles to confute the Papist nor yet can they be the body of the people without any Officers to silence the Anabaptists Brownists c. the power of ordaining lies then in the hands of Prophets and Teachers of ordinary teachers as well as of extraordinary Prophets else it would have been said that the Prophets onely laid hands on them yea of Prophets not as such but as they were Teachers the greater ever containing the lesse for as we never finde that it was proper to Prophets as so to ordain so nor as extraordinary Officers onely for then Ordination had ceased with extraordinary Officers which would gratifie the Seeker too much Therefore it is said both Prophets and Teachers to intimate to us that Teachers and ordinary Officers have a stewardly power of Ordination and Prophets as supplying the place and doing the office of ordinary Teachers that are to succeed to the end of the world Eph. 4. Whence the note and Observation is That the power of sending or ordaining Ministers lies in the Observ hands of ordinary Officers as stewards of it not in the hands of Five Arguments to prove the power of Ordaining in the hands of ordinary Officers Apostles only not in the hands of the people ordinarily for which I shall but name five Arguments two of which I hinted in the clearing of the Text. 1. If the power of ordaining had lain in the hands of extrordinary Officers only there had been no way left for the perpetuation of a Gospel-Ministery which Christ hath resolv'd to continue in the world to the end thereof 2. If Teachers had power to ordain then ordinary Officers had power to ordain for Teaches were ordinary Officers Eph. 4. But Teachers we see in the Text had power to ordain Ergò 3. If men by vertue and with and in their own Ordination receive power to ordain then ordinary Ministers have power to ordain for they are ordain'd But men by vertue and in and with their own Ordination receive power and authority to ordain others as appears abundantly As my Father sent me so send I you saith Christ this seems to be spoken in answer to secret Objections which the Apostles made against their call to preach the Gospel as

her and Popery and come over again to preach the truth for which they were first ordained And lastly and chiefly many that could not turn from the truth in judgement o● practice were known to fly for safety hence to other Churches beyond the Seas where they remain'd in the day of our calamity but when it was once over they returned to us to reduce our Churches to reform our Ministery and did with the gracious assistance of God and the Queen bring us back into the former Channell of Protestant profession wherein we have freely though sometimes fouly runne to this day 7. But as for you it may justly be feared you came by a later and neerer passage from the Church of Rome though under ground First None can doubt but we are as Full of Jesuites Now who love rather to fish in pudled waters where they Our Adversaries may be feared to have to do too much with Jesuits nor their baits may be seen as before these distracted unsetled times when they were capable of gaining lesse and more liable to be discerned by us Secondly and if the Iesuites be busie among us as no doubt they are where and with whom are they likeliest to be with you or us They cannot be thought to be among the Ministers for they are in a setled way and known by all to be the Jesuites sworn enemies Thirdly but your disorders aptnes to receive any opinions indiscretion c. doe indeed invite them to close in with you Fourthly ye take it for certain though poor souls you see it not you have received of late and been used by Jesuites to vent at least twenty errors for the Popes Advantage which with little time and place convenient I could reckon up and one among the rest to the purpose in hand That we are Schismaticks to the Church of Coll. Pulpit-guard Routed Rome and having unlawfully Rent our selves from her we ought to return again unto her Which leads me on to the last Answer to the old Objection against us Because we came by succession from Rome Lastly I Answer Suppose what you will that when we left Rome she was a true or a false Church we have yet a defence invincible though I suppose each one of the former Answers are sufficient satisfaction to men that will take it it is this I never heard or read of any that owned the name of a Christian the Papist excepted but did acknowledge that Luther and the rest of our first Reformers were lawfull Ministers whether their Call was an extraordinary or an ordinarie Call Now if so Had not they power to ordain others The Apostles had no ordinary Call yet they had power as the greater to ordain ordinarie Ministers and to confer an ordinary Call yet they ordained ordinarily and so did Luthrr c. And from thence we have had a succession of a regular ordination to this day and thus though as it is frequently used it wil not hold the distinction of ratione Principii medii touching Ordination is of great use for when our first Reformers ordained others they did not regard Ordination as the Channel of Rome had defiled and defaced it but they fetch the manner of it from the Fountain the Scripture Apostolical Example and Institution and the Doctrine of Ordination as in the Scripture was never toucht though the practice of it in the Popes hands was very corrupt and that their practice is now nothing to us that have reformed from it our Reformers they were lawful Ministers and they reformed abuses in Ordination too according to Scripture and from them successively hath it passed true not altogether pure sometimes to us and what corruptions it received in Bishops days it is reformed from of late also and our Ordination is at this day according to the Word in every thing and therefore to conclude we are as I said true Ministers Thus far then we have proceeded namely to prove the Ministery of England to be of Christ from our adversaries own Principles from the principles of any indifferent men and lastly from the grounds and principles of the Word But from the Word we promised two things First to make it appear that the Ministers in England have whatsoever the Word requires to make them so And this we have largely handled and whatsoever the word requires to manifest them so and this I shall as briefly touch If the Ministry be in question the Scripture gives us two Our Ministrie manifested Rules to know it by by which we are bound to try it before we reject it The first is its fruit By their fruit ye shall know them saith 1. From its Fruit. our Saviour of false Teachers By their fruit that is their Doctrine you shall know them that is whether they be of God which makes it evident that though we cannot clear a succession of persons yet as all that Wright against the Papists hold a succession of Doctrine is enough to evidence the true Ministrie Suppose it be doubted where the Ministrie of Christ is if it be but granted that he hath a Ministerie somewhere in the world it is easily concluded to be where the Doctrine of Christ is preach'd where can it be else This I make a mark when there is just cause of scruple touching the Call of a present Ministrie otherwise the very Ordination it self when known to be lawful is a readier way to prove and clear a lawfull Call Now we that cannot be denyed to have both have two strings that the adverse hand can never break The other is taken from its effects whereby God is pleased 2. It s effect to own his servants and doe his work by them Who is Paul Who Apollos but Ministers by whom you believe would you know who they are observe their work by them you come to believe and then doe not question but they are Ministers why so Because Faith is the gift of God which he doth not usually give but by his Ministers hands Ministers by whom you beleeve as God gave every man for how shall they beleeve on him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear that is so as to beleeve without a Preacher a sent Preacher Whence we conclude that ordinary Conversion wrought by our Ministrie is an infallible mark of the truth of our Ministerie and that we are sent by Christ who do the work of Christ I dare not say but a true and honest Minister may have cause to Note complain That he hath stretched forth his hands all the day long unto disobedient and gain-saying people Yet this I say that he that is so happy in his labours as to convert some and establish more is hereby declared from heaven if questioned before to be both an able and lawful Minister And further he that endeavours to wash a Black-more to reform a people that hate to be reformed and reaps no visible fruit of his labours he wants

throughout and nothing warrantable with God or man Two things I should undertake here viz. to shew you the ground of this distinction of publick Preaching and private teaching and to clear and confirm my conclusion thereupon Rutherford Hall Collings Ferriby c. viz. That though private teaching be the duty of all yet publick Preaching is the sin of any but men in Office which having been done so fully by others to whom I refer you I shall dispatch in a word For the ground and reason of this clear distinction one instance of many shall serve the turn and it is of women whom we find in Scripture commended for private teaching yet also forbidden there in publick Preaching see Act. 18. 26. There Aquilla and Priscilla took Apollos unto them it is said and expounded the word Mark they took him to them aside into private and there the woman as well as the man expounded the way of God unto Apollos Well then here is an example of a womans teaching in a private way but doth this allow a womans publick Preaching no alas that 's clearly forbidden in another text which tels us we must not suffer a woman to speak in the Church neither to the end she may teach or learn And as women are forbidden to speak at all so are men forbidden to preach in the Church without a call For no man taketh this honour to himself unlesse he be called of God as Aaron was As if it had been said in the times of the Gospel Heb. 5. 4. a call is as necessary to licence a Preacher as it was in the time of the law For how shall they Preach except they be sent Rom. 10. 15. That is none can perform the Office of a Preacher as just before How shall they hear without a Preacher unless he be sent that is as we largely explained before ordained according to the order of the Gospel by the power of the Church Now we never read of any in Scripture that were sent to preach but they were thereby put into Office yea this Preaching in the Text is expounded there to be an exercise of one that is sent and none other and this being sent doth expound it selfe to make a Preacher as in the last words of the fourteenth verse and this word Preacher is never given to any in Scripture but to men in Office Then those that to presume to preach must needs pretend to be sent some way or other and I know no other sending but extraordinary or ordinary now I wish our Adversaries to take which they please Are they sent extraordinarily That though some of them have pleaded heretofore they are all ashamed of and do not now so much as pretend unto it for indeed it is great blasphemy Neither doe they pretend to be sent in an ordinary way according to the nature of the word sending or the Rule of the Gospel as we have this day declared to you How and yet dare to preach upon what account I beseech you Object There is a sending of Duty as well as Office saith one of them Answ How many absurdities are couch't together in these few words 1. It would devide betwixt the Duty and Office of preaching which differ no more than Ghost and Spirit the same thing in two words 2. It would devide betwixt a mans being sent by God and put into Office by him still one and the same thing 3. It is but the old distinction put into worse and harder words which is That private Christians may exercise their gifts in a way of love in a private way but there is a preaching in Office that onely is lawfull for men that are sent 4. To speak all in a word this sending in the very nature of the word and sence of Scripture doth plainly exclude what ever such men pretend unto to authorize their sinful disorderly practice of publick preaching even all the four things we nam'd before 1. It excludes the secret impulse of their own spirit for no man that goes of his own accord can be said to be sent the one is Active the other Passive and this is confirm'd by that known Text No man taketh this honour to himself but he that is called of God as was Aaron clearly expressing that going and calling are two things 2. Sending excludes the call of gifts also for we not imagine that every man that is fit eo ipso a Justice of Peace ability is one thing commission another as most evidently appears by that clear Text Mat. 10. 1 5. In the first verse they have their qualification and in the fift they receive their Commission and are bid goe and therefore examination or proving of gifts is but the way to Ordination as in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus doth plainly appear 3. Sending excludes Electing from the whole work and therefore we finde sending and electing two things and even perform'd in a different way and by different persons in Acts 6. 5 6. The people chose and set the men before the Apostles but they are not sent yet and therefore the Apostles lay hands upon them 4. Sending is more than desiring lastly for this is but an act of an equal but sending is ever an act of Superiors Desiring doth leave the power in the partee desir'd but sending implyes the power to be in the partee sending Desiring doth not while sending doth still put a man into Office and a Minister in special giving him authority to deliver his Message intrusted to him for how shall he preach except he be sent That is perform the Office of a Preacher except he hath receiv'd a Commission so to do except he be sent Which I conclude with this argument as the sum of this matter None may preach except he be sent But Self-will Gifts Election Desire or Invitations of the people are not sending Therefore those that have no other Commission then these four may not preach Object But though we have not the Doctrine of Scripture we have many examples of Scripture that favour our preaching Answ 1. Suppose it yet you must know these two things 1. That Example will never warrant the practice of any unlesse all circumstances of time place person c. that are materiall meet together if thou beest not in all respects in the same condition with that man thou lookst at in Scripture his action is no pattern to thee 2. That Examples in Scripture are not further to be imitated by us then they are agreeing with the Word of Scripture But secondly as you have not one Word so neither one Example in the holy Scripture that will stand you in stead in the least Object Did not Apollos preach Answ So may you in non-constituted Churches especially if you were known to be Ministers as he is called 1 Corinth 3. 5. Object But did not Philip preach Answ So may you in the same state of the Church especially being ordained as Philip was Acts 6.