receive not New Lights Whimsies Errours 19. The Prelates laboured to scandalize their Non-conforming Brethren with Nick-names c. Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to make their Non-conforming Brethren vile and scandalous to the Kingdome Ezek. 18 2. Thus the Fathers have eaten sowre grapes and the childrens teeth are set on edge Thus if we would compare crimes and times we might write and speak Quaere Whether M. Edwards in reekoning up divers things for Errors hath not much aspersed his owne Brethren Doctor Twisse M. Gattaker and many others in many Doctrinall points they hold The Testimony of M. Samuel Rutherford one of the Scotch Commâ—ssioners in the last Page of his Epistle to the Reader in his Booke Intituled The Divine Right of Church-Government and Excommunication No incroaching on Christs Prerogative BUt it is a Controversie say some whether the Government of the Church of the New Testament belong to the Magistrate or to the Church To which I say 1. It was a controversie created by men willing to please Princes with more power in the Courts of Christ then ever the Lawgiver and Apostles gave them and that against the minde of glorious Lights the first Reformers and the whole Troop of Protestant Divines who studied the Controversie against the usurped Monarchy of the man of sin more exactly then one Physitian who in a cursory way diverted off his Road of Medicine of which he wrote learnedly and broke in on the by upon the deepest Polemicks of diyinity and reached a riders blow unawares to his Friends 2. In things doubtfull conscience hath refuge to the surest side Now it s granted by all and not controverted by any that in the Apostolike Church the government of the Church of the New Testament was in the hands of Apostles Pastors Teachers and therefore Conscience would sway to that in which there can be no Error except on supposall of abuse and Christian Rulers would not doe well to venture upon Eternity wrath the judgement to come confiding on the poore plea of an Erastian distinction to incroach upon the Prerogative Royall of Jesus Christ FINIS THese Reasons tending not only to the sweetning of the TWO KINGDOMES England and Scotland the Parliament and Dissenting Brethren on both sides in the Assembly each to other but also to the preserving a Just Liberty for them all respectively I commend to the Presse March 30. 1646. IOHN BACHILER THE DIVINE RIGHT OF PRESBYTERY Asserted by the present Assembly and Petitioned for accordingly to the Honourable House of Commons in PARLIAMENT With REASONS Discussing this pretended Divine-Right and yet with tendernesse to the Brethren of the Presbyteriall way Pleading for a Liberty of Conscience for them in this their Opinion as for others of their Dissenting Brethren and equally for both With Inferences upon their late PETITION By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Rev 2. 2. Thou hast tried those that say they are Apostles but are not LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. To those Brethren of the Assembly of Divines Petitioners who are for the pretended Divine Right of the present PRESBYTERY BRETHREN Meeting ye but of the Assembly or that bounder appointed ye by Parâ— I cannot justly be denied this reasoning with ye for the Ordinance by which ye sit doth enable ye only to advise of things propounded but not to propound or demand any as ye have done of late so as in this ye have brought your selves down to the same magnitude with us that are private men Here is the difference now Ye are many of better parts and abilities I am as one borne out of duetime yet the same Covenant is upon me with your selves nor ought I because I am but one presume to see Truth more then one because ye are many Nay it is that voyce from the excellent glory which both you and I must heare and which can only teach us Truth It is not the voyce of any other And surely since Truth hath had its lot in the world to lâ—ve upon voyces in Assemblies and Synods where that is only Truth which is voted so and not in its own glory and evidence where that is only Truth which is so The Mystery of iniquity hath been more advanced then the Mystery of godlinesse THE DIVINE RIGHT Of Presbytery c. With Reasons discussing this pretended DIVINE RIGHT FIrst They who are the Presbyters in this present Presbytery pretend to be Presbyters by a power of Ordination from Bishops as the Bishops were Presbyters and if so they are to make it appeare that there is a true personall succession of Ministery from the Apostles and that they doe lineally succeed without interruption for in succession unlesse there be a certain perpetuall and personall derivation of power there can be no certainty nor infallibility of the truth of such a power and whether the proof of this drawes not with it a necessary and perpetuall visibility of a Church contrary to the opinion of all the Reformed Divines and further a truth of Church-Ministery and Ordinances of Jesus Christ in the Antichristian State from whence this Ministery of theirs comes by which they stand present Presbyters and how any true Ministery can be found in that very Antichristian State which is called the man of sin the mystery of iniquity the Whore of Babylon the falling away and how the same State can be both meerly Antichristian and Christian a Whore of Babylon and a Spouse of Iesus Christ a Ministery of God and a mystery of iniquity a Temple of God and of Idols I leave it to be judged 2. That these present pretended-Presbyters cannot be found true Presbyters but by such a personall and successively derived power will appeare from their present Modell of Ordination they allowing and accounting none for Presbyters or Ministers but such as are sent out by their personall Ordination or were formerly ordained by Bishops so as they make these and these must make others and thus their power is derived from a personall and lineall succession and demonstratively proved from their owne practice nor will it help them that Iesus Christ alwayes had a Church or some invisible Saints under Antichrist because they must both prove themselves and the Episcopall Ministery to succeed that very Church or those very invisible Saints and that that Church or those very Saints were Presbyters or Ministers for we know men may be Saints but not sent or ministerially Saints sent good men but not good Presbyters as in their owne way of practice will more appeare for if any should now call himself a true Presbyter or Minister he must prove his sending to them by a personall Ordination which proof of their Ordination we demand from them as they would doe now from any others 3. How these things can stand together That the Divine Right is in the Congregationall Presbytery as they
acknowledge and yet that there is a Classicall Provinciall and Nationall Presbytery which are but Prudentiall and humane or mixed Judicatures according to such a distinction and yet are allowed by them a Power Supreme and coercive to the Divine Right of the Congregationall Presbytery which is the first and immediate subject of the Divine Right of Presbytery as they themselves acknowledge And now whether doe not their owne principles controll that pretended Divine Right they plead for and set up a Presbytery of Charity and Prudence over the Presbytery in the particular Congregation which they say is only of Divine Right 4. How can that Presbytery whose constitution is so questionable challenge such a Divine Right As first their Presbyters or first constituting Principles are ordained by a questionable power viz. that of Bishops Their Ruling-Elders by a power as questionable viz. by a Rule or Ordinance of Parliament prudentiall for triall for election because of the generall corruption in this Kingdome both in Ministers and people not by that very Apostolicall Scripture-Rule or Institution of Jesus Christ Their Congregations Parishionall and of politick constitution not Congregationall according to Scripture Their way of constituting this present Presbytery extraordinary by such an Assembly without precept or example for such a Way in the whole New Testament from whence the whole Order of that dispensation ought to be framed and not from the Law or Old Testament or some cases of necessity in the State or Church of Israel by way of Analogy as they say in their Modell to the Parliament The Primitive Elders and Apostles were qualified immediately from the Spirit with gifts proper to such a Ministration which these Presbyters and Elders being not but most by gifts and habits of Art and Science acquired by industry therefore these present Presbyters cannot challenge the same power for Church-Censures without the same Spirit gifting them and anointing them to such a power and administration in the Church but ought to be content meerly with a mixed and partly prudentiall power because of the mixture of their anointing and gifts if they will needs have such a Government set up for Christ's which is not all Christs and most of that all very questionable whether of Christ or no. For all their proofs alleadged from Scripture for the Presbytery by Divine Right or of such Presbyters as were ordained either by Christ himself as the Apostles or by a power from the Apostles or from such who in that power received from the Apostles did ordaine or by a power in the Church or Congregation preceding such a power and accompanying such a power Now this present Presbytery can neither make it selfe appeare to be so purely ordained nor have they the Church or Congregationall power so preceding or accompanying such an Ordination nor is that act of Imposition of hands by which their present Presbyters stand Ministers a meere signe of setting apart or meerly significative but an Institution for gifts to be conferred under the Law it was an empty and bare Rite but under the Gospell it cannot be proved to be such an empty Rite Gospell-signes being but few full and ministeriall to the spirit not meerly significatively-visible as the Institutions and Rites under the Law were So as all being thus questionable still in this present Presbytery how can they so Apostolically challenge such a Divine Right their present constitutions being mixt questionable fallible not one and the same with that primitive pure certaine constitutions and practices Whereas it appears in their Scripture-proofs that both in Jerusalem Ephesus Crete c. the Presbyters and Elders did constitute c. and were most consulted with and advised and therefore they assume the same power and so force out rather then prove out their frame of their present Presbytery from such practices I desire the Brethren to tell us whether the Word of the Gospell was then wholly in Scripture or writing but partly in the Spirit and gifts or teaching and therefore the Eldership of the Churches then were so gifted as to direct constitute advise and from the ministration of gifts in the Eldership c. the Institutions formes and Rules were given out into Scripture or writing which Scripture or written Word is now in the place of that infallible Primitive Eldership and therefore for any Presbytery or Eldership to assume now such a power as the first did they doe not only without warrant substitute themselves to such a Presbytery or Eldership which stood by another anointing or spirit of gifts then themselves doe but they sit downe in the throne with the very Scripture or written Word of God casting a shadow upon the glory and infallibility of that Word by that present authority and power which they now challenge in the interpretation of that Word in their Presbytery because by such a sure and certaine power as Divine Right allowes them they having not a sure and infallible Spirit for Church-censures or the execution of such a power may put forth a certaine sure executive power by an uncertaine unsure and fallible spirit And so how proportionable a power of Divine Right is with a Spirit not purely Divine and how proportionable a power of Church-censures acted by a gift not purely the Spirit 's but rather the Vniversities and Schooles and to joyne such an Eldership so with the infallible Word or Scripture which for want of that primitive or pure anoynting by gifts shall controule the pure Word of Truth by an Interpretation lesse then Truth I leave to all the world of beleevers to judge How such a visible power and Judge as a Nationall Assembly of such a Presbytery can be set up which must judge all the Churches and Congregations of Christ all the Magistracy and State-power in the Kingdom they assuming to themselves a spirit of judging and discerning of sins And whether by this power the Parliament of England shall not fall under the cognisance interpretation and censure of such an Assembly for some sins which they as a Civill power may commit especially dealing in Ecclesiasticall causes And then how far such a Nationall Assembly may manage such crimes to the heightning of their own interest and to the troubling the interest of the State amongst the people I let all judg who know how the same visible Ecclesiasticall Judge is condemned by all the Reformed Kingdoms under another notion viz. of the Antichrist and Pope and Councels And how that Antichristian power and Judge in Ecclesiasticals hath troubled this and other Kingdoms to the imbroiling them by excommunications into Wars and commotions as in our Histories c. and hath at length taken up other weapons then the Word to make good their Ecclesiasticall censures and interests And whether this visible forme of Classicall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall be any other then the like Papall Episcopall power differing only in forme in Consistoriall Provinciall Nationall Oecumenicall Counsels and Synods the like spirit
Fishers Book who we hope will do by those as the Helvetians did by somethings that were stumbled at amongst them though there were none but Anabaptists that stumbled at them yet the State did by Authority remove them and Zuinglius their pofessed adversary gives them thanks for occasioning the removall Quaere 1. Why may not the Brethren look for better cure to their troubled consciences from the State now then from some of their Brethren because the hands and hearts of the State have appeared more carefull more mercifull then some of them the Priests and Levits walke by while the good Samaritans comfort the wounded 2. If the State of the Helvetians would not offend the very Anabaptists but remove the scandall why should any State now be set on and inslamed not only to offend but persecute them not only Anabaptists as they are called but all other their Brethren that dissent If States are commended then for being so tender why are they preached now into severity wrath revenge and tender troubled consciences made the only trouble 9. Rigour makes Separatists But we think nay we know that some few Prelates by their over-rigorous pressing have made more Separatists then all the Preachers dis-affected to Ceremonies in England Quaere 1. If it hath appeared formerly that rigorous imposings have occasioned Separation why do they now cry out of so many Separatists and not look up to themselves Why do they beat their fellow servants out of doores and then cry out of their running away 2. Why is not persecution and imposing more forborne by the Brethren now when they have found it the cause of their owne Separation formerly 3. Why do they cry out of Separatists when they see Separatists have not so much made themselves so as they have been made so by others and they have been rather driven away then they have drawn away themselves Why do they cry out of Separation when they force them into corners first if they would have the communion of their Brethren more why make they not their persecution lesse and their offences in Worship and Government lesse 10. Burthens to Churches to be removed In the meane we blesse God who hath put into the hearts of others into whose hands he hath concredited the work to judge more wisely and consider more mercifully and to professe in the hearing of some of us they would willingly part with that which was indifferent to themselves if they were but truly informed it was offensive to others according to that of Gregory those customes which are known to bring any burthens upon the Churches it becomes us to consider of the removing of them Quaere 1. Why may not the State too be petitioned by their people now of tender Consciences to the same temper of tendernesse and mercy to them that the Brethren then desired for themselves Whether are those good neighbours that would have it raine only in their own Gardens and the Sun to shine only on their own blossoms and have peace only in their own dwellings and their neighbour Towns running with bloud 2. Were the times of Non-conformists then times only for removing burdens from Churches and the times of Non-conformists now times of burdening Churches 11. Mens devices ought not to hinder preaching This is just as our Bishops were wont to do who give a full power to a Presbyter at his Ordination to preach the Gospell with a charge to do it yet will not suffer him to preach no not in his own cure without a Licence Quaere 1. When any then was gifted and called to preach the Gospell and Licenses were complained on to hinder why are there any other waies devised against the liberty of the Gospell now as uniformity c. 2. Were Licenses chaines and feâ—ters to the glorious and free spirit And are internogatories and â—uestions at times of Ordination and admission about Anti-Paedo-Baptisme Antinomianism now no restraints nor devices to the same purpose is this to rejoyce that Christ is preached howsoever nay is not this to forbid him because he follows not with us 12. Mens inventions to set up jus Divinum to advance Government They that have studied to advance the Babel of Episcopacy have endeavoured to underpin it with some Texts of Scripture that they might plead a jus divinum for it Quaere 1. Was it unlawfull and politick in some to underpin Episcopacy with some Texts of Scriptures and so to get up a â—us divinum for it and is it not as unlawfull to set up another Forme that is not purely of God underpinned with Texts of Scripture for a jus divinum or divine right as some would have had it 13. Oath ex officio an unlawfull engine We desire to see further how abominable this Oath is how cryed down by learned men how contrary to the Word of God the Law of nature to the Civill and Cannon Laws and to the Statutes of our Kingdom he may find in Mr. Parker Quaere 1. Was it so contrary to the Word of God to all Civill and Common Laws and the Law of our own Kingdom to extort from men Consciencesecrets then of what kind are all Formes of posing examining interogating to find out the opinions of those who are to preach in any Congregation 14. When Presbyters grow as tyrannous as Bishops they are to suffer But if the Presbyters should be as generally corrupted as Bishops now are have as much strength to suppresse the Gospell and promote Popery as the Bishops by their supream power have and if they can bring no more evidence of divine institution then Bishops can and are of no more necessity to the Church then Bishops are let the function suffer Quaere May not the very thing be more feared and presumed by us now from some late experiments of them viz. that the Presbyters may grow strong to suppresse the Gospell and tyronnous c. and may be corrupted as Bishops formerly as well as they might prophesie this of themselves Caiaphas thought as little of Christ when he said one should dye for the people as some Presbyters thought of suppressing the Gospell themselves and suffering for it when they wrote thus against Bishops and Presbyters 15. Change of words in Religion an ill signe We find that the late Innovators which have so much disturbed the peace and purity of our Church did first beâ—in with alterations of words and the Apostle exhorts us to hold fast the forme of sound words 2 Tim 1. 13. and avoyd prophane novelties of words Quaere 1. If the change of words be so dangerous and unwholsome Formes and so condemned before why are unwarrantable words taken up again as Classicall Provinciall Nationall Triers Directories which are no more Formes of wholsome nor Scripture words 16. Reproâ—ches â—o Arguments If confident slightings and scornfull denâ—als be sufficient answers to us and our arguments never any man hath better defended Episcopacy or more strongly confuted those that oppose
in one and the same Kingdom would be considered when such an Interest growâ—s up from its infancy and first Reformation into a fuller and more perfect man And whether their petitioning of a power from the State to compleat and make them an Eldership and Presbytery doth not imply a power in the State more or rather as fully Ecclesiasticall as their Presbytery for can the State give them any Ecclesiasticall power and have none it selfe so as according to these Principles the State is Ecclesiastical as well as they and so not to be denied the power of Commissioning with them or else t is a meere contradiction to pray for power from those to their Eldership and Presbytery which they say is a Government and Power entirely Ecclesiasticall and compleat in it selfe and so as they either pray for that which they have of their own already or else pray for that from the State which they cannot give them Petition It belongs unto them by Divine Right and by the Will and appointment of Jesus Christ which with the help of superiour Assemblies in cases of appeale or in all administrations therein will prevent through the blessing of God all the feared inconveniences Inference Whence we may infer that the Presbytery and Eldership of a Congregation is of Divine Right c. yet that Divine Right is perfected and compleated by that which is not of as pure Divine Right as it selfe viz. Superiour Assemblies and so becomes neither purely Prudentiall nor Divine but Mixt and so is neither good Divine nor good Humane Right Petition And the Magistrate to whom we professe the Church to be accountable for their proceedings in all their Elderships and Church Assemblies and punishable by him with Civill censures for their miscarriages Inference Whence we may inferre that the Civill Magistrate is neither over nor under the Presbytery and where they place it who can tell by this Petition of theirs for over it the Magistrate is not for they say Commissioners over them are not sufferable and under it they say the Magistrate is not for their Eldership and Presbytery are to be accountable to the Civill power for their miscarriages and how at the same time they should subject their Churches in their mal Administrations to the Magistrates power of judging and yet challenge such an entire sole supreame and Ecclesiasticall Judicature is a mystery becomming the learning of that same Assembly to reveale which first begun it Principles against the Divine Right o◠〈…〉 present Presbytery extracted from the Reasons 1. THey are no such Presbyters of Jesus Christ as the first were because ordained by an Antichristian power of Bishops nor were Bishops true Presbyteres nor those who joyned with them in their Ordination who were made by them nor is there any succession of Ordination but it implies both a Perpetuall Visible Church and a true Church Ministery and Ordinances under Antichrist which all are to be proved by them 2. If there were any such true Church invisible under Antichrist to which they succeed in their Ministery then it must appeare that they succeed that very invisible Church and that that very invisible Church had a true Ministery or Presbytery in it for men may be Saints or good men yet not good Presbyters or Ministerially sent 3. As they now in their practice will not account any for true Presbyters but such who can prove to them their personall Ordination from them so we demand of these Presbyters an account of their personall succession accordingly which personall succession if it be false and interrupted any where in the Line must needs be all false from such a point where the first interruption was made 4. Though Christs promise is enough to ground a perpetuity of Church and Christs presence yet not of his promise made good to such particular men or to their pretended succession 5. They that challenge a Divine Right to the power they act by must act by a gift as Divine and infallible as their right and power and thus did the primitive Presbyters and Elders therefore the gift being but mixt their right or power is but mixt accordingly and not Divine 6. They who were Elders or Presbyters in the first Churches as Ierusalem c. were gifted by a spirit which taught the very infallible Word which is now written or Scripture and so they then did constitute advise counsell in the place of this written Word and all Scripture Formes and Institutions were then in the gift and persons but no such thing can be said of any Eldership or Presbytery of men now 7. They who set up an Eldership or Presbytery now of Divine Right to constitute ordaine counsell c. do joyne to the Word written or infallible Scripture a Power lesse infallibly gifted who by such a Divine Right and Power pretended shall controle the Word of Truth by Interpretations of that Word lesse then Truth which is not consistent with the glory of the Word 8. There is no Eldership or Presbytery in Scripture but either the Churches Act did precede it act it or accompany it by precept or practice which makes the Divine Right of the Presbytery questionable uncertain unsafe because of a contrary Scripture and Precept 9. The Eldership and Presbytery which are brought for instances are questionable first for the Persons who were not such very Presbyters as they would imply but Apostles Evangelists c. or otherwise ordained either by Apostles or Church or otherwise gifted by speciall unction or else an Eldership of eminency not of Office 10. They hold this Divine Right is in the first subject in the Congregationall Presbytery and yet they set up a Classicall Provinciall Nationall Presbytery to compleat and controle this of the Congregationall and how this their Divine Right can be subjected thus to a Right lesse Divine is unreasonable and unscripturall to imagine 11. Suppose such a power as a Nationall Presbytery collected from all parts of the Kingdom every Congregation having an Interest or part there and this Presbytery so Nationall and Collective informed by a Divine Right for judging sins c. shall not this Nationall Presbytery take cognizance of States if sinning Ecclesiastically as well as others and if so what proceeding what cenâ—ures will follow from such a body as universall as the body of that State and of as much Interest in the Kingdom as they and of more interest by how much more Divine a Right they act by and by how much neerer they are seated to the conscience and how Kingdoms have been embroyled by such an Ecclesiasticall Interest Histories will tell ye 12. So as in this straite when Parliament is perswaded of no Divine Right Assembly of a Divine Right and the Dissenting brethren of another Divine Right is not the way this to let the Parliament have their Liberty of Conscience to settle no Divine Right by a power and the Assembly to use their Liberty in a Divine Right with all that
they were more in the light and the immediate way of the revelation of Truth 3. They tooke not in the power of the Magistrate to help them nor did they clasp it as one with their own 4. They consisted of ‖ Brethren as well as of the Presbyterie and both together had a joynt interest and concurrencie in all power 5. The Presbyteries were not as now Classicall Provinciall Nationall these are no Scripture-forms but devises of men 6. The Presbyterie is of no more in the Greek then of a ‖ metaphorical or figurative signification signifying Seniority or Eldership and the setting it up in a notion of power and office is more then the Scriptures will clearly beare such Notions in the Word are but Notions of form and order not of Office 7. The Presbyteries now are not rightly constituted because they consisted of a Ministery from Antichrist and the Bishops of Rome ordaining one another by the same power they received from them 8. Their ‖ Congregations are not such as before so constituted because Parishes are of a Popish and politick constitution 9. Baptisme is not to be received by Generation now as Circumcision was but by Regeneration or visible Profession as at first Nor are the carnall seed now any more children of Abraham but the ‖ Faithfull And no Ordinance is now to be administred upon legall consequence but upon Gospell-precept Independancy So called What it is and what they hold THe people of God are only a Church when called by the Word and Spirit into Consent or Covenant and Saints by profession and all Church-power is laid in here and given out from hence into Pastorship and Elders c. and a just distribution of Interest betwixt Elders and People All spirituall Government is here and not in any power forreigne or extrinsecal to the Congregation or authoritative Their children are made Christians first by Infant-baptisme and after by the Word and they are baptized by a foederal or Covenant-holinesse or Birth-priveledges as under the Law They may enjoy all Ordinances in this estate and some may Prophesie Exceptions 1. THat there is not such a power radically or fundamentally placed in the Church to make Pastors and Elders c. because there is first no such practice in the Word but rather of an Apostolicall or Ministeriall power which made or gathered Churches first not Churches them 2. The Eldership and Presbitery of Apostles and Elders did principally act and authoritatively act and not the whole Church or people they in a lower and lesse Interest in a way of choyce or vote and consent 3. That which is called Ordination c. was by the Apostles and a power established in the Presbitery not in the Church as meer Beleevers 4. They that were Baptized by an Antichristian power are no right Baptized Members of Churches and yet so are all of their Churches as were Baptized under Prelacie the power of the dispenser being Antichristian and the subject or Infant no visible Beleever for that Ordinance 5. Their Church consists not all of visible Saints or Beleevers according to their own Principle for their children being baptized and in that condition are no actuall visible Saints all their Church are not living stones nor visibly holy And it may be more cleerly proved that meer civill and morall men are rather to be admitted of their Church-society then such as children are who are but meerly naturally visible neither spiritually civilly nor morally visible 6. That of foederal holynesse in 1 Cor. 7. 14. is only to satisfie a scruple that if Vnbeleeving made wife or husband unholy it made children unholy too and so both or none must be put away 7. There is no carnall seed now to be sealed Christ being come in the flesh which flesh before had a Seale of Circumcision but there is no such externall priviledge now by any such right 8. All Consequences drawn from Circumcision are of no more force then from the cloud and the Sea and the rocke and Noah's Arke and other typicall and figurative places in the Word nor can any legall or probable Scriptures make any Law or Rule for any such Gospell-administration which is not directly and in Scripture-words to be found 9. Childrens Baptisme in the Church is a way never to have a Church of such Baptized Beleevers as in the Apostles times 10. Baptisme being a visible signe cannot rationally be administred upon one that cannot see nor discern what is done to whom the water can be no signe but they are only told of it when they come to age and how can it hold proportion with Circumcision when as that was a mark remaining in the flesh when they came to age to signifie to them But water is like a flash of lightning which must be taken by the Beleever in that quick and vanishing act or else it hath no sensible efficacy to which it was instituted nor doth the Beleever thus any other way enjoy it but by way of History or a thing past and done which he never saw Baptisme is as a flash of lightning as it is well observed by one Circumcision was as a fixed Star so much difference in these two Rites 11. Institution of Baptisme is to duty as well as grace which children cannot perform and so answer the signe 12. Institution of Baptisme is doctrinall in the very act of it as is acknowledged by all the present Baptism Matth. 28. Baptizing them in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost c. Now this implies a capable and teachable subject 13. Their Churches are not distinct from other Societies Antichristian because there is no visible gifts by which their Churches are visibly qualified from any other Societies and according to the promises of gifts in Ephes 4. 11. nor no such Church-gifts as in 1 Cor. 12. c. where there was the gifts of the Spirit powerfully and visibly spiritualizing that body and making it to excell all other bodies civill or Antichristian And that Prophesie was a more extraordinary gift then is now any where in the Churches Anabatisme So called What it is and what they hold THe Church of Christ are a Company of baptized Beleevers and whatsoever Disciple can teach the Word or make out Christ may baptize or administer other Ordinances That the Church or Body though but of two or three yet may enjoy the Word and Ordinances by way of an Administrator or one deputed to administer though no Pastor That none are to be baptized but Beleevers That those commonly called Church-Officers as Pastors c. are such as the Church or Body may be without That none are to be called Brethren but baptized Beleevers All administrations of Ordinances were given to the Apostles as Disciples not so under the notion
as these are is this faire dealing with the State You have brought forth before Israel and the Sun many pretended sins and crimes of your Brethren Suppose they should write by your Copy and bring forth the Aslembly-sinnes the crimes of all those of your way of all the Divines and others that you take in and rake back into the ashes of their unregenerate condition keep Almanackes for the yeares and dayes of their faylings watch their haltings in all things they say or doe tell all the Stories of them they heare what would the next generation thinke of their Book and yours At this rate of writing they would not reade one honest man of all their forefathers yet this is your course and method I have done for this time and I hope all that are not inchanted with the Gorgons-head of Hereticks and Schismaticks and Church of England as your owne Smectymnians say will reade and judge I had said more to ye had you printed us more Reason and lesse Reviling and something more then Stories and Winter-tales And for our Licenser whom you so rayle at he is so much a friend to all the world of beleevers as to give them the Scripture-liberty of proving and trying all things and not to silence the Presse as some would and as the Prelates did silence the Pulpit And now let any age weighing all the differences excepting the Blasphemies c. and the nature of them nakedly without aggravations and fallacy of words bring forth a Book printed in such Letters of bloud as this Gangraena bind up all the Oxford Aulicusses the Mountagues the Pocklingtons and see if this Gangraena doe not exceed them all this is Persecution and Prelacy sublimate And for all this I would not have the Civill power drawne against you if we had all the Magistrates on our side but rather that you may in the flowings of a more heavenly spirit with your head of waters and your eyes a fountaine of teares write against your owne Book and let the world see that Men in these times are not infallible as you all conclude but may mistake their Brethren for Enemies some Truths for Errours and Zeale for Persecution as the very Jewes did when they crucified Christ as they thought for Blasphemy And some shall kill ye saith Christ and thinke they doe God good service A Parallel between the Prelacy and the Presbytery Quaere VVHether if we should reply to M. Edwards in his owne words and as Salomon saith answer him according to his c. we not compare things as followeth and trace up their proceedings into the very mystery of Prelacy 1. The Prelates were ordained Ministers by the Bishops Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines that sit now are Ordained by the same power of Bishops to be Ministers and so by that power ordaine others 2. The Prelates when they had made Canons procured the power of the State to impose them upon all the Kingdome Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now get the same power to what they decree and accordingly impose them upon the Kingdome 3. The Prelates composed one great Service-booke for direction to Uniformity of worship according as they had ordered under penalties yet without the least word of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it Quaere Whether may it not be said Divines have composed one great Booke accordingly now for the like Uniformity viz. the Directory to be observed under fines and penalties and yet without the least word or tittle of Scripture to prove the truth of any thing in it 4. The Prelates ordered that from that Book Prayers should be read to the people Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have not cast the Prayers of the Spirit into such Formes and Methods that a little invention will make them as stinted currant and legible Formes as before and accordingly read in divers places 5. The Prelates counted all that would not conforme to them Schismaticall and Hereticall Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now count not all so that will not be uniforme with them 6. The Prelates forbad all to Preach and Print that did not Preach and Print for their way of worship and Government Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now would not have all hindred from Pulpit and Presse that will not be of way of Worship and Government with them 7. The Prelates possessed themselves of the States power and favour Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now wholly labour after the same interest both in Parliament and other Councles 8. The Prelates had their Licensers to stop all that write against their power and pompe Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now labour to ingrosse the power of licensing only to themselves 9. The Prelates had for part of their Government Fines Pillories Whips Imprisonment Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have those very things for part of theirs 10. The Prelates had Parishes for their Churches and Tythes for their maintenance Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now have the same Parishes now for Churches the same Tythes for maintenance 11. The Prelates called all other meetings but their Parish-meetings Conventicles Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now call the Churches and people that meet now together apart from them Conventicles as formerly 12. The Prelates called the Non-conformists factious troublers of the State Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly call any that write or oppose their Presbytery factious and State-troublers 13. The Prelates ever accused their Non-conforming Brethren to the King and Councell Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly accuse their Non-conforming Brethren to the Parliament and other Councels 14. The Prelates had a designe to send all their Non-conformed Brethren to strange Kingdomes as New-England Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now endeavour to send their Non-conforming Brethren to other places out of the Kingdome 15. The Prelates ingrossed all the Preaching and preferring Divines to all places of honour and popularity in the Kingdome to themselves Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe accordingly preferre to all places of publike trust honour and imploiment as Universities Navy Armies Garrison-Towns Counties Cities c 16. The Prelates would not suffer men whom they called Lay-men to speake of the Scriptures Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now doe forbid and contemne all Lay-mens gifts in the same manner 17. The Prelates would not suffer any to goe from the Parish-Minister Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly labour to have all keep to their Parishes 18. The Prelates called Truths which they received not New Lights Errours Quaere Whether may it not be said the Divines now accordingly call all things they
that the cords bruised his shoulders and made them swell as bigg as a penny â—oase and the Warden made him be gagged as if he would teare his jawes Answer THat the graduall subordination is made good by Mr Rutherford c. Is this reasoning or reference And this you have done all along referred us either to your selfe or some other to answer for you That your Presbyteries are not so singular more free convenient more peaceable more Apostolicall more Authorized then other Churches These are good commendations but had halfe so much been proved by the Word your Government had passed before this For that of Sacriledge and usurpation upon God in alienating Tythes never did Prelate no nor Bishop Mountague plead an higher title for tythes What sacriledge and usurpation to deny Tythes Where are you in the Covenant or no is it not a Parliament Ordinance you take them by and will you set up a Divine Right over that now surely they may justly now withdraw their Ordinance for Tythes and leave you to your Divine Right and see what the people will pay you To that of your commending old men and age I reverence age and old men but not the old man in them And for dreames being more excellent then visions It is a curious speculation and enough may be said for both yet if you take Visions more spiritually they are a more glorious way of Revelation then that of dreames but what are these dreames to yours Surely Reformation in bloud or by persecution is but a dream of such as have slept long in Prelacie Why are you so much in the defence of jeasting and so serious in your Scripture proofes for it take heed of strengthening corrupt nature by Scripture God and Eliah saw errors more cleerely then you or I who may assoon laugh at the Scripture it selfe as something beside it And for other Church-Governments not comming under the tryall of Parliament nor comming out by their authority I know not any that would not humbly lay downe their Scripture-order to that honourable Senate and rejoyce that they would take it up to discusse and for not comming out under their authority I know none of the rest so ambitious or troublesome to the Magistrate as to solicite them to compell their order upon all their Brethren and all must be Hereticks and Schismaticks that will not though they cannot beleeve so For Gospell-patterns being as much in the letter as the Legall because written are you such a stranger to the Spirits notion of Letter and Spirit in the New Testament Know you not that the Temple or Legall Worship before was said to be in the Oldnesse of the Letter Know you not that Gospell-patternes are more seen by the Spirit now then before and though both be written and in Letter yet not both equally litterall but the one more glorious in the ministration the other lesse For that of the suffererâ— Mr Prynn Mr Burton Mr Lilburne and Mr Bestwick And Mr Lilbourne written in such capitall Letters of blâ—â—â—d as you justly say and can you name these and call for the power in your hands as you do Can you thus remember Prelates and yet petition to be such Presbyters Can you see these yet bleeding and desire to persecute by such a President of Bloud FOr Salmasius his testimony with the Baptisme in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ and his testimony that the Presbyterâ— is but of humane and positive right not of Divine He is mine and not yours and all youâ— paines and quarrelling and after quotations cannot make him more yours or lesse mine and it is no little disadvantage to you that one so great a Schollar as your whole Assembly affords any hath thus witnessed with the truth which so many Schollars oppose C. D. his Treatise printed with Master Ley's Book in Master Ley's Commendation whether made by himselfe or some other he best knows HIs Title is One of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster And there you might have known of what account he was among his Reverend Brethren He was chosen Chaire man of the Committée of examination of Ministers and of the Committée of Printing and one of the Tryers and one of the Ordainers of Ministers next after the two Doctors Chaire-man I remember not any of the Apostles in such Offices and Titles You might have known him by his Pattern of Piety his Book on the Sabbath by divers Sermons of his â—â— Print his Annotations on the Pentateuch and he hath much more prepared for the Presse then is already printed All which are approved by those most able to judge of iudicious and learned Laboure Give them leave to speak themselves in this point The Greek Anagram made on his name when President of Sion Colledge THE SUN IN SION with Verses If the Sun be there why no more Light there then For his Name you would think it too venerable c. John in the Hebrew signifies Grace and Ley in Spanish the Law With some Letters in his Commendation in pag. 19 20. c. THus I have gathered up all in your Book that concernes you materially and your friend printed on the backside of yours And for other particulars more substantiall your Books and mine are both abroad let them speak for themselves the Readers must now judge in the Spirit what we both write in the Letter for I intend not to puzzle the world with any more of this Controversie Some Truth may be seen and what is more is but you and I. SIR I was unwilling to set your failings before you and the world but since you printed them once over in mistake I thought I might print them over in a cleerer letter that you may see things for Errours which before you took for Truths Conclusion THus I have replyed to your Positions not to your passions nor reproaches in which you are something larger then I had thought becomes an Orthodex Divine And for the dirt you cast in my face I have only wiped it off without casting it back on yours I had rather let it fall in the Channell which best becomes it For your Revilings sleightings and railings if they trouble not your selfe to write the Presse to print and the Reader to read I promise you they trouble not me And though I am much below many yet I am in this above you that I can forgive you by how much he that can pardon is greater then he that offends I thanke you for your ill usage you cannot do that against me which works not for my good for I am learning to blesse them that curse me to pray for them that despightfully use me And truly this advantage I shall make of your taxing me for faults which I have not To taxe my selfe of the many other faults which I have indeed which you and the world see not FINIS REASONS FOR Vnitie Peace and Love WITH AN ANSWER Called Shadows
godlinesse Whether all your Fastings and Repentance were from true meltings of heart sound humiliation or because the State called for it and constrained it Whether your praying and preaching was not much of it Self of Invention of Parts of Art of Learning of seeking praise from man Oh should the light of the Spirit come in clearnesse and glory upon your spirit Oh! how much of Self of Hypocrisie of Vanity of Flesh of Corruption would appeare how would all be unprofitable For my part I cannot be so uncharitable but to wish you a better assurance then what you and your Brethren can find in your own works or righteousnesse For it is not what we approve but what God approves is accepted And I am perswaded however you are now loth it may be to lose reputation by going out of an old track of Divinity as Luther once yet when once your spirit begins to be unclothed of forms of darknesse and art of self-righteousnesse and that you with open face behold the glory of the Lord you will cry out Wo is me I am undone for I have seen the Lord and Lord depart from me for I am a sinfull creature and What went I out to see My owne unrighteousnesse or rather A Reed shaken with the winde An Answer to a Book intituled A Plea for Congregationall Government or A Defence of the Assemblies Petition c. YOu write thus 1 That the independents confesse you a true Church and Minstery 2 Those that are ordained by Bishops may be true Ministers else how am I a Preacher or they true Ministers 3 Succession is not necessary to the essence of a true Ministery 4 If no true Ministery no true Baptisme 5 Must not there be persons ordaining and persons ordained And so the dissenting Brethren hold 6 That you abuse the Assembly in citing their Humble Advice touching the Divine Right of a Congregationall Presbyteriall and not of the other The Independents assort a Divine Right there and in Synods too as they do They hold a Divine Right in one as well as the other 7 Their ordination by Bishops though it should be null yet they have all you can alleadge necessary to a Preacher 8 Parishes here are but as in New-England as in Jerusalem Antioch 9 Some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods an holy Ordinance of God and this Assembly so to be 10 If no Presbyteries must be of Divine Right because not infallibly gifted this concludes against Presbyteries and Ordinances 11 If you would have them content with a mixed power partly prudentiall because of their mixt dnointing you contradict that pure one you plead for 12 The Apostles and Elders and Angels of the Churches of Asia were not infallible as in divers practices 13 To say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is little lesse then Blasphemy 14 The Presbyterians in France and Scotland and the Netherlands do not so imbroyle Kingdoms The feare of excommunicating Parliaments and Kingdoms is but a Bugbeare 15 They aske not of the State an Ecclesiasticall-power but a liberty to exercise that power 16 Hath Christâ— said that in a sound Church Church-Officers shall excommunicate and in an nnsound the Magistrate shall do it 17 He may in time say as much against Equity and justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as against Truth Answer To the first That the Independents confesse you a true Chruch and Ministery You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to Truth Nor do I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. and behold thou art poore c. To the second That they ordained by Bishops are true Ministers as the Independents and I a Preacher for all that Ordination If you meane that the Bishops Ordination makes not one for ever a false or Antichristian Minister I grant it because it is no marke to them that renounce it Babylon is no more Babylon to them that are gone out of it But what is this to your Ministery or Ordination who are yet under the Marke and Babylonish Ordination Renounce it come out as the Spirit cals ye and then your being Antichristian is no more to ye then to the Ephesians that they should be lesse light because they were once darknesse or lesse alive because they were once dead To the third That Succession is not necessary to a true Ministery It is both true and false in severall acceptions When there was a true power they ordained others and others them There was succession But that being lost under Antichrist so far as visibly to derive it to us there can be no such true visible Succession appearing And yet you that pretend to stand by the first power must prove your Succession if you will prove your power To the Fourth If no true Ministery no true Baptism For that as you please I dare not exalt the truth of your Baptism above that of your Ministery no more then you To the Fifth The dissenting Brethren hold there must be persons ordaining and ordained as well as we Yeâ— but do they hold Bishops ordaining and Presbyters ordained by Bishops and Presbyters of their ordaining ordaining others as you do To the Sixth of my unjust citing the Assemblies Modell or Humble Advice and that there is no more Divine Right asserted in the Congregationall Presbytery then in the Classicall c. which is done so by the dissenting Brethren I answer Let the Modell be printed to the world to end the difference betwixt you and me And for the Divine Right of the one and the other I am of your mind they are able to prove both alike of Divine Right that is in their Presbytery The one is no more of Divine Right then the other and neither of them of any And for the dissenting Brethren it is not them but you I deale with Why come you under their shadow in a storme and yet will let them have no liberty under yours but would turne us all abroad as Hereticks and Schismaticks To the Seventh Though the Ordination by Bishops be null yet they have the other necessaries to a Preacher Will ye undertake for the Assembly they shall stand to this that all their former Ordination by Bishops is null If so we are agreed if not all their other necessaries are no more then Ahabs peace What peace saith Jehu so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Iezebell are alive So what Ministery so long as the whoredoms of Babylon yet remaine To the Eighth That the Parishes are but as in New-England as in Ierusalem c. I pray forbeare this it is too manifest an errour Are the Parishes of England and Churches of Ierusalm one and the same so discipled so constituted Were all of Ierusalem and Antioch reckoned for Christs Congregations as all Parishes are To the Ninth