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A56601 An appendix to the third part of The friendly debate being a letter of the conformist to the non-conformist : together with a postscript / by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. Part 3, Appendix Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P746; ESTC R13612 87,282 240

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that_o he_o shall_v study_v rather_o how_o to_o give_v no_o account_n at_o all_o for_o he_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a in_o other_o learning_n as_o well_o as_o in_o this_o as_o appear_v by_o his_o discourse_n about_o ordination_n by_o presbyter_n which_o follow_v a_o little_a after_o the_o friendly_a debate_n give_v he_o no_o occasion_n to_o mention_v any_o thing_n of_o this_o nature_n but_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n it_o seem_v to_o give_v we_o a_o taste_n of_o his_o skill_n in_o this_o great_a question_n though_o it_o be_v so_o small_a that_o i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o excuse_v his_o boldness_n in_o meddle_v with_o it_o he_o suppose_v that_o the_o chorepiscopi_fw-la which_o he_o make_v the_o same_o with_o our_o rural_a dean_n may_v lawful_o ordain_v and_o next_o that_o suffragans_fw-la be_v but_o such_o presbyter_n so_o that_o he_o who_o be_v ordain_v by_o they_o have_v not_o episcopal_a ordination_n and_o then_o three_o he_o will_v have_v you_o believe_v that_o archbishop_n usher_n and_o 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those_o fiery_a dissenter_n from_o our_o church_n to_o declaim_v so_o
loud_o against_o they_o and_o all_o this_o serve_v to_o convince_v our_o apologist_n of_o unskilfulness_n in_o these_o matter_n who_o pronounce_v roundly_o that_o mr._n gataker_n book_n gataker_n p._n 13._o of_o his_o book_n never_o have_v any_o episcopal_a ordination_n because_o he_o be_v ordain_v by_o a_o suffragan_n of_o one_o of_o those_o place_n mention_v in_o the_o statute_n viz._n the_o suffragan_n of_o colchester_n suppose_v he_o be_v 131._o be_v as_o mr._n clark_n tell_v we_o he_o be_v collect._n of_o life_n of_o ten_o divine_n p._n 131._o he_o have_v notwithstanding_o episcopal_a ordination_n as_o i_o have_v demonstrate_v and_o as_o good_a as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o the_o great_a bishop_n in_o the_o world_n but_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v i_o see_v by_o this_o what_o those_o suffragans_fw-la be_v and_o contrary_a to_o what_o become_v a_o humble_a and_o modest_a man_n and_o the_o title_n likewise_o of_o his_o book_n write_v about_o thing_n which_o he_o have_v not_o study_v or_o consider_v which_o make_v he_o also_o confound_v these_o with_o the_o rural_a dean_n allege_v the_o primate_n of_o armaghs_n judgement_n concern_v the_o power_n of_o suffragans_fw-la to_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v his_o judgement_n that_o the_o chorepiscopi_fw-la or_o rural_a dean_n may_v lawful_o ordain_v in_o which_o he_o have_v do_v he_o a_o notorious_a injury_n for_o there_o be_v not_o such_o a_o word_n in_o his_o book_n as_o that_o the_o rural_a dean_n may_v lawful_o ordain_v but_o only_o that_o the_o number_n of_o suffragans_fw-la which_o be_v 26_o may_v well_o be_v conform_v to_o the_o number_n of_o the_o several_a rural_a deanery_n and_o supply_v the_o place_n of_o those_o who_o in_o the_o ancient_a church_n be_v call_v chorepiscopi_fw-la may_v every_o month_n assemble_v a_o synod_n of_o the_o rector_n within_o the_o precinct_n and_o conclude_v all_o matter_n bring_v before_o they_o by_o the_o major_a part_n of_o voice_n these_o be_v his_o word_n which_o do_v not_o signify_v that_o suffragans_fw-la be_v the_o same_o with_o rural_a dean_n or_o chorepiscopi_fw-la but_o that_o there_o may_v be_v as_o many_o of_o the_o one_o as_o there_o be_v of_o the_o other_o and_o suffragans_fw-la do_v all_o that_o which_o those_o ancient_a officer_n do_v though_o they_o have_v power_n to_o do_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o for_o i_o have_v prove_v a_o plain_a distinction_n between_o they_o the_o chorepiscopi_fw-la be_v make_v by_o one_o single_a bishop_n viz._n the_o bishop_n of_o the_o city_n to_o who_o they_o belong_v as_o the_o council_n of_o antioch_n tell_v we_o can._n 10._o but_o the_o suffragans_fw-la be_v real_a bishop_n be_v make_v as_o other_o bishop_n be_v by_o three_o at_o the_o least_o according_a to_o the_o four_o canon_n of_o the_o first_o council_n at_o nice_a and_o so_o they_o have_v power_n to_o ordain_v presbyter_n and_o join_v in_o the_o consecration_n of_o other_o bishop_n which_o the_o chorepiscopi_fw-la have_v not_o nor_o do_v our_o church_n ever_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o power_n reside_v in_o the_o rural_a dean_n or_o any_o mere_a presbyter_n subject_a to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o our_o bishop_n to_o ordain_v priest_n but_o as_o hadrianus_n saravia_n tell_v the_o minister_n of_o guernsey_n 142._o guernsey_n see_v clavi_fw-la trabales_fw-la p._n 142._o in_o his_o letter_n to_o they_o as_o many_o minister_n as_o be_v natural_o of_o the_o country_n be_v not_o make_v minister_n of_o the_o church_n by_o their_o bishop_n or_o his_o demissory_n nor_o any_o other_o according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o english_a church_n be_v not_o true_a and_o lawful_a minister_n where_o by_o demissory_n i_o think_v he_o mean_v the_o suffragans_fw-la of_o the_o bishop_n of_o winchester_n to_o who_o jurisdiction_n they_o belong_v yes_o may_v some_o say_v our_o bishop_n have_v sometime_o declare_v otherwise_o for_o this_o apologist_n spotswood_n apologist_n pag._n 13._o out_o of_o archbish_n spotswood_n allege_v the_o story_n of_o the_o three_o scot_n bishop_n who_o never_o have_v be_v ordain_v but_o by_o presbyter_n and_o yet_o bishop_n bancroft_n opinion_n be_v that_o they_o need_v not_o be_v ordain_v again_o which_o have_v often_o be_v allege_v heretofore_o by_o other_o particular_o by_o the_o lancashire_n minister_n of_o the_o first_o classis_fw-la at_o manchester_n in_o who_o he_o may_v have_v find_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o than_o this_o amount_n unto_o for_o they_o fly_v to_o a_o letter_n of_o the_o late_a primate_n of_o ireland_n with_o the_o animadversion_n of_o dr._n bernard_n upon_o it_o 1658._o it_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o late_a archb._n of_o armagh_n etc._n etc._n 1658._o in_o which_o this_o story_n be_v cite_v and_o the_o judgement_n of_o many_o other_o learned_a divine_n but_o nothing_o at_o all_o to_o the_o business_n for_o as_o the_o gentleman_n to_o who_o the_o lancashire_n minister_n write_v their_o letter_n well_o observe_v p._n observe_v excommunicatio_fw-la excommunicata_fw-la p._n the_o primate_n do_v not_o make_v void_a the_o ordination_n by_o presbyter_n but_o it_o be_v with_o a_o special_a restriction_n to_o such_o place_n where_o bishop_n can_v not_o be_v have_v which_o be_v the_o very_a word_n also_o of_o archbishop_n bancroft_n in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o scottish_a bishop_n as_o for_o the_o ordination_n make_v by_o our_o presbyter_n the_o primate_n declare_v himself_o against_o they_o in_o the_o very_a same_o letter_n which_o they_o crafty_o conceal_v as_o you_o may_v read_v p._n 112._o of_o dr._n bernard_n book_n the_o word_n be_v these_o you_o may_v easy_o judge_v that_o the_o ordination_n make_v by_o such_o presbyter_n as_o have_v sever_v themselves_o from_o those_o bishop_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v swear_v canonical_a obedience_n can_v possible_o by_o i_o be_v excuse_v from_o be_v schismatical_a which_o i_o find_v cite_v again_o in_o another_o book_n of_o of_o he_o call_v clavi_fw-la trabales_fw-la p._n 56._o and_o both_o in_o that_o and_o the_o former_a book_n 55._o book_n judgement_n of_o the_o archb._n p._n 122_o etc._n etc._n clavi_fw-la tiab_n p._n 55._o he_o tell_v we_o the_o primate_n think_v their_o ordination_n void_a upon_o another_o score_n because_o at_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n they_o neither_o use_v those_o ancient_a word_n receive_v thou_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n nor_o the_o next_o be_v thou_o a_o faithful_a dispenser_n etc._n etc._n nor_o any_o other_o word_n to_o that_o sense_n at_o least_o there_o be_v no_o order_n or_o direction_n for_o it_o and_o they_o also_o whole_o omit_v those_o word_n at_o the_o solemn_a delivery_n of_o the_o bible_n inro_fw-la the_o hand_n of_o the_o person_n ordain_v take_v thou_o authority_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a transmission_n of_o ministerial_a power_n he_o be_v wont_a to_o say_v that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o some_o call_v the_o seal_n of_o ordination_n without_o a_o 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we_o will_v rather_o therefore_o draw_v up_o the_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n here_o and_o send_v up_o with_o you_o some_o nobleman_n gentleman_n and_o minister_n that_o shall_v see_v it_o subscribe_v which_o be_v according_o do_v the_o covenant_n be_v cry_v up_o the_o scot_n come_v into_o england_n and_o what_o do_v they_o come_v for_o it_o be_v say_v the_o preface_n to_o mr._n knox_n his_o history_n to_o fight_v the_o battle_n of_o the_o lord_n i._n e._n to_o pull_v down_o episcopacy_n and_o to_o set_v up_o presbytery_n in_o its_o room_n according_a to_o the_o covenant_n which_o league_n and_o covenant_n say_v mr._n rutherford_n be_v the_o first_o foundation_n of_o the_o ruin_n of_o the_o malignant_a party_n in_o england_n 117._o england_n see_v toleration_n discuss_v p._n 117._o but_o not_o of_o episcopacy_n this_o gentleman_n will_v have_v you_o believe_v for_o it_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o assembly_n that_o the_o covenant_n do_v not_o bind_v against_o a_o primitive_a episcopacy_n page_n 31._o what_o they_o mean_v by_o a_o primitive_a episcopacy_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o inquire_v but_o this_o be_v well_o know_v that_o the_o three_o minister_n in_o their_o first_o answer_n to_o the_o divine_n of_o aberdeen_n positive_o affirm_v that_o episcopacy_n be_v not_o abjure_v by_o their_o confession_n nor_o their_o covenant_n 117._o covenant_n see_v large_a declara_fw-la ion_n p._n 117._o which_o be_v aver_v by_o many_o other_o covenanter_n to_o those_o who_o otherways_o scruple_v to_o enter_v into_o their_o covenant_n and_o i_o know_v that_o some_o declare_v the_o same_o in_o england_n and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o nothing_o will_v satisfy_v but_o the_o extirpation_n of_o episcopal_a power_n and_o they_o labour_v tooth_n and_o nail_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n by_o presbyter_n alone_o this_o the_o people_n think_v be_v the_o great_a end_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o first_o contriver_n 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to_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n 383_o scotland_n ib._n p_o 383_o of_o which_o the_o independent_a brethren_n cheat_v they_o make_v that_o be_v raze_v out_o and_o those_o word_n insert_v which_o we_o now_o read_v in_o it_o however_o the_o abolition_n of_o the_o office_n of_o bishop_n be_v their_o great_a demand_n of_o the_o king_n as_o mr._n r._n baily_n express_o affirm_v add_v that_o the_o unhappy_a prelate_n have_v find_v it_o to_o be_v their_o great_a demand_n from_o the_o begin_n of_o our_o trouble_n unto_o this_o day_n 76._o day_n review_n of_o fair_a warn_v 1649_o chap._n 12._o p._n 76._o and_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o to_o deny_v they_o this_o satisfaction_n be_v to_o conclude_v that_o the_o king_n himself_o and_o all_o his_o family_n and_o three_o kingdom_n shall_v perish_v why_o so_o i_o beseech_v you_o it_o can_v not_o be_v otherwise_o notwithstanding_o all_o their_o fine_a word_n in_o the_o beginning_n for_o they_o have_v swear_v to_o root_v they_o out_o and_o can_v not_o break_v their_o covenant_n to_o save_v three_o kingdom_n and_o therefore_o at_o last_o mr._n baily_n persuade_v himself_o the_o king_n do_v consent_n to_o abolish_v name_n and_o thing_n not_o only_o for_o three_o year_n but_o for_o ever_o strange_a when_o his_o majesty_n have_v so_o often_o clear_o protest_v that_o he_o can_v not_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n consent_n to_o it_o do_v they_o force_v he_o at_o last_o to_o do_v it_o against_o his_o conscience_n or_o do_v they_o give_v he_o such_o satisfaction_n that_o he_o see_v at_o last_o he_o may_v safe_o do_v it_o alas_o we_o dull_a soul_n do_v not_o understand_v the_o mystery_n which_o they_o can_v find_v in_o word_n his_o majesty_n consent_v to_o lay_v aside_o bishop_n for_o three_o year_n till_o he_o and_o his_o parliament_n shall_v agree_v upon_o some_o settle_a order_n for_o the_o church_n now_o this_o say_v he_o be_v tantamount_n to_o for_o ever_o it_o be_v suppose_v mark_v the_o juggle_a that_o they_o can_v never_o agree_v to_o admit_v episcopacy_n again_o why_o so_o for_o all_o and_o every_o one_o say_v he_o 8●_n he_o ib._n chap._n last_o p._n 8●_n in_o both_o house_n have_v abjure_v episcopacy_n by_o solemn_a oath_n and_o covenant_n observe_v that_o the_o parliament_n can_v not_o agree_v with_o the_o king_n to_o erect_v the_o fall_v chair_n of_o the_o bishop_n so_o there_o remain_v no_o other_o but_o that_o either_o his_o majesty_n shall_v come_v over_o to_o their_o judgement_n or_o by_o his_o not_o agree_v with_o they_o yet_o real_o to_o agree_v in_o the_o perpetual_a abolition_n of_o episcopacy_n since_o he_o have_v grant_v to_o lay_v aside_o bishop_n till_o he_o and_o his_o house_n have_v agree_v upon_o a_o settle_a order_n in_o the_o church_n this_o be_v a_o admirable_a contrivance_n especial_o if_o you_o call_v to_o mind_n as_o the_o answer_n tell_v he_o how_o there_o be_v something_o else_o agree_v viz._n that_o twenty_o divine_n of_o his_o majesty_n nomination_n be_v add_v to_o the_o assembly_n shall_v have_v a_o free_a consultation_n and_o debate_n about_o the_o settlement_n of_o church-government_n after_o those_o three_o year_n or_o soon_o if_o difference_n can_v be_v compose_v a_o very_a free_a debate_n this_o be_v like_a to_o be_v in_o which_o all_o reason_n that_o can_v be_v give_v for_o episcopacy_n be_v shut_v out_o of_o door_n and_o conclude_v by_o a_o oath_n to_o be_v put_v to_o silence_n but_o why_o shall_v i_o trouble_v myself_o any_o far_o the_o wide_a indeed_o the_o hole_n grow_v in_o the_o millstone_n the_o clear_a a_o man_n may_v see_v through_o it_o but_o this_o man_n sophistry_n be_v visible_a enough_o already_o nor_o need_v there_o more_o word_n to_o show_v that_o this_o modest_a braggadocio_n vaunt_v himself_o ridiculous_o in_o the_o merit_n of_o his_o party_n and_o that_o mr._n vicar_n and_o such_o like_a be_v not_o the_o only_a man_n that_o revile_v and_o calumniate_v they_o that_o pretend_v to_o humility_n modesty_n and_o seriousness_n can_v forbear_v it_o but_o if_o you_o desire_v a_o far_o taste_v of_o his_o spirit_n i_o pray_v have_v so_o much_o patience_n as_o to_o hear_v how_o he_o use_v i_o in_o the_o preface_n he_o accuse_v i_o of_o rail_v and_o in_o his_o book_n p._n 2._o of_o revile_v without_o take_v notice_n of_o one_o word_n that_o i_o have_v say_v in_o answer_n to_o these_o calumny_n they_o be_v resolve_v i_o see_v to_o be_v confident_a and_o to_o have_v their_o say_n do_v or_o say_v we_o what_o we_o can_v for_o he_o tell_v you_o also_o of_o my_o jeer_a scoff_a false_a accusation_n and_o mock_v lightness_n and_o drollery_n 137._o p_o 90._o 92_o 137._o but_o not_o a_o syllable_n to_o make_v good_a the_o charge_n no_o that_o be_v a_o hard_a thing_n but_o very_o easy_a to_o say_v that_o i_o write_v sometime_o what_o may_v better_o become_v some_o ecclesiastical_a hudibras_n or_o a_o doctor_n of_o the_o stage_n than_o 35._o than_o p._n 35._o etc._n etc._n just_o thus_o mr._n r._n baily_n be_v please_v to_o answer_v that_o excellent_a bishop_n which_o this_o man_n commend_v dr._n bramhall_n concern_v the_o 8_o chapter_n of_o who_o fair_a warn_v he_o say_v it_o much_o better_o beseem_v a_o mercurius_n aulicus_n than_o either_o a_o warner_n or_o a_o prelate_n 48._o prelate_n review_n p._n 48._o he_o charge_v he_o also_o with_o gather_v together_o a_o heap_n of_o calumny_n etc._n etc._n though_o as_o the_o reply_n tell_v he_o that_o heap_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o faithful_a collection_n of_o historical_a narration_n which_o require_v not_o the_o credulity_n of_o the_o simple_a but_o the_o search_n of_o diligent_a people_n if_o they_o distrust_v they_o the_o same_o i_o say_v for_o myself_o they_o must_v be_v behold_v to_o a_o new_a light_n which_o no_o body_n can_v see_v but_o themselves_o to_o make_v historical_a truth_n to_o be_v a_o slander_n they_o be_v