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A49125 The non-conformists plea for peace impleaded in answer to several late writings of Mr. Baxter and others, pretending to shew reasons for the sinfulness of conformity. Long, Thomas, 1621-1707. 1680 (1680) Wing L2977; ESTC R25484 74,581 138

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Sections and this is the result of all If every Pastor might be a Bishop in his Parish Independent and free from any Superiour to controul him if he may have an arbitrary power if they may be arbitrary in exercise of the power of the Keys without appeal such as he says p. 265. the Jews had where there was a Village of Ten Persons there was a Presbyter that had power of Judging Offenders Then we should be so far says he from using the controversie about the Divine Right of Episcopacy as a distinct Order from Presbyters to any Schisme or injury to the Church as hitherto they have done that we should thankfully contribute our best endeavours to the Concord Peace Safety and Prosperity thereof i. e. they would give the Bishops leave to exercise their Authority in Vtopia having provided that they shall have nothing to do in England But the Magistrates must yield to them also Might we be freed from Swearing Subscribing Declaring and Covenanting unnecessary things which we take not to be true and from some few unnecessary practices which we cannot justify And if they might have power of Ordaining such as they please and of Confirming the Adult not according to the Order of the Church of England for that comes too near to Popery but according to Mr. Baxters or Mr. Hanmers Model that is May the power of altering the Laws in Church and State then and not till then when these necessary terms are granted they will serve the Church so modelled in poverty and raggs But of so great a mercy says he experience hath made our hopes from Men to be very small and the Reason of the thing makes our hopes as small of the happiness of the Church of England till God Unite us on these necessary terms To what great streights do some Men reduce themselves that they cannot live unless they Rob and ruine their neighbours subvert whole Churches and Kingdoms and grasp all Power and Authority over the Bodies and Consciences of their Brethren into their own hands Did ever any Bishop aspire to such Tyranny as this the Pope only excepted is not the King and whole Nation greatly Culpable not to trust themselves with the Ingenuity of this people of whose Loyalty and Charity they have had such experience and is it not pitty that they should be constrained to attempt these things against Law when they so humbly desire to have them established by Law and when the reason of the thing i. e. their resolution to have it so it being their great concern as he calls it makes the hopes of the happiness of the Church of England to be very small which Men so resolved as they are may foretel as Mr. Baxter doth without a Spirit of Prophecy Sect. 2. p. 207. Mr. Baxter proceeds to the second part of Conformity which he calls Re-ordination and says it was either intended as a second Ordination or not If yea it is a thing condemned by the ancient Churches by the Canons called the Apostles c. If not then they take such Mens former Ordination to be Null and consequently all such Churches to be no Churches their Baptizings and Consecration of the Lords Supper c. to be Null Answ Although the Ordination by Presbyters alone especially when it hath been done in opposition to * P. 237. of the five Disputations We Ordain not presente but Spreto Episcopo and Contempt of Bishops hath been ever condemned in the Church and the validity thereof is still questioned yet granting it to be valid a Submission to Episcopal Ordination is no renouncing of that which was performed by Presbyters no more than the submission of the Disciples of John who had been Baptized by him with the Baptism of Repentance to the Baptism of Christ Nor doth the Law any where require them to declare that their former Ordination was Null because then it would have pronounced their Baptizings and other Ministerial Offices to be Null if therefore we did juge as charitably of our Legislators as we ought and Interpret the Laws by the practice we cannot find any such thing as Re-ordination intended For first the word is no where mentioned but the Ordination required is to qualify them for the exercise of their Ministry in the Church of England and to capacitate them for it Thus in the Preface to the Book of Ordination it is said None shall be taken as Ministers of the Church of England but who are so Ordained It denyeth not but they may be Ministers elsewhere and the Act for Vniformity renders them uncapable of any Parsonage Vicaridge c. in the Church of England But the same Act allows of the Ministers Presbyterially Ordained in other Reformed Churches to exercise their Ministry here by His Majesties Authority Yea the same Parliament permits them to meet and exercise many Ministerial duties so that the number above that of their own Families do not exceed Five and Mr. Baxter knows that the most eminent Divines of our Church ever held the Ordination by Presbyters in forraign Churches to be lawful 2. It is Mr. Baxters Opinion that the outward part of Ordination may be repeated Directory l. 3. Q. 21. And that the Ordainer doth but Ministerially invest the person with Power whom the Spirit of God hath qualified for it by the Inward Call now the Inward Call being the Essential part as he accounts and the Ministerial Investiture of the person with power being the outward part P. 311. of the Plea I see no reason why one Ordained by Presbyters may not submit to Episcopal Ordination by his own Argument Yea Mr. Baxter there affirmes That the mutual consent of the people and themselves may suffice to the orderly admittance into the Office especially if the Magistrate consent and the Ordainers should refuse For which see more in his Dispute of Ordination from whence I propose this case suppose a person fitly qualified for Parts and Piety Chosen and Ordained a Minister by an Independent or Anabaptistical people should afterward submit himself to Presbyterial Ordination I doubt not but the Presbyters would think it lawful to Ordain him and I believe they would not admit him into their Churches without such Ordination which may justifie our Superiours in requiring that they who will be admitted Ministers of the Church of England should be Episcopally Ordained For here is nothing repeated but the outward part or Ceremony of Investiture which by Mr. Baxters Confession may be repeated and is no more than the Marriage of such by a Minister who had been Married before by a Justice of Peace Or as he makes another Comparison it is no more than if a person very expert in Physick should practice without a License Upon which he tells you a story of his great success in Physick which he practiced many years gratis and saved the Lives of multitudes p. 78. of the Third part of the way of Concord and yet he there grants that it