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A39566 Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ... Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1655 (1655) Wing F1049; ESTC R40901 968,208 646

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it then t will if we put you to it to disprove a lineal succession of our baptism for if we cannot name the particular persons that baptized one another in this way wherein we do it successively from the persons of the Apostles in answer to this question who baptized you and who him and who him and so upwards till we come thither are you able if we ask you who sprinkled you and who him and who him and who him c. to particularize more punctually then we are you able to assign who began our way of baptism first of all in the world unlesse you begin as high as Iohn the baptist nay verily though Dr. Featley would fain father it upon Stock yet it s most manifest unto you all that infants sprinkling was denied by some ever since it was known to have a being for it was controverted in the daies of the fathers and that it would not have been had there been none that had then denied it and denied it could not be by any but such as pleaded the baptism of believers in those times and were the right way baptized themselves You have not one president of one infant sprinkled nor proof that such a thing was so much as talked on for at least an hundred years after Christ but we are most certain and your selves cannot deny it that the bapti●m of believers began at Iohn the baptist and the Apostles and if we could prove a succession of it de facto no further downwards then so yet it is enough to us that we find it then was so whereby to prove that it ought to have been so in all ages since and is to be de jure at this day One word more and then we have done with this if none at all save such as are baptized themselves may in any case dispense baptism to others save such also as are by ordination true ministers of the Gospel then your selves who pretend solely to the title of baptizing are no right administrators as being in truth neither baptized nor ordained in such wise as the Scripture requires that your baptism is null I have cleared it enough already and that your ministry is no lesse is apparent sith whilst you indeavour to derive it from the Apostles you can derive it thence no other wise then the Pope doth his for if a line of succession be a proof of true ministry you may indeed derive it as well but not one jot better then he he can shew you his line of succession if not from Peter yet at least from Linus himself that lived in the daies of the Apostles and you can shew us the line wherein you came from the Pope and so through his loines from the other there is no other way for your ministry to prove its pedigree from the Primitive times but this no way for you to climb up to the Apostles as the fathers and founders of your function but by a chain of many linkes whereof if one happen to prove unsound and t is a chance but a flaw may be found in some of them that have been trailed for many hundreds of years together through the hands of that Apostaticall harlot the intaile is clear cut of your pedigree and descent from the Apostles as a ministry perishes is spilt upon the ground and can never be tact on again any more for ever you have hitherto owned your ordination as handed by an uninterrupted lineal succession from the Pope to the present Presbytery and if we put the question to the veriest novice or youngling among you who ordained you and who ordained those that ordained you and who them and who them and who them you can find your function flowing in a continual stream from the Primitive fountain no other way but through that stinking sink and corrupt channel of the holy chaire Pope Gregory the great gave power of ordination to Austin the Monk when he sent him over into England about a thousand years since he to the Popish Bishops they to the Protestant Bishops they to the Presbyters and the Presbyters to their present Preachers thus what Ministeriall power you have hangs upon the Protestant Bishops theirs upon Austin Austins upon the Pope the Popes upon Peter you came i. e. descended from the Pope the Pope came i. e. departed from the Apostles and thus from the Apostles you came all but thither you must go again letting go your sweet succession and from their words which are the same now as then begin your businesse again before you can be right or know any thing cleerly where you are for if he whom your selves call Antichrist made you a ministery of Christ you may be the Ministry of the Church of England if you will which if it be vere Ecclesia a true Church at all y●t is such a one as had its parochial posture from whence you had your power and therefore fit enough each for the other but of the Church in England which is vera Ecclesia the true Church indeed you shall never be the Ministry for me till you repent and be baptized As for my self whom you deem to be no Minister of the Gospel I must not lead you so far from the other work in hand as to stand upon the proof of that now having transgressed as some will think too far already though else it were no impossible thing to prove it and therefore I say this only in short that whether I am now a true Minister of the Gospel or no t is now my utmost aim to preach and promote the truth of it as t is in Jesus but as for the time in which I was owned a Minister of the Gospel I was at that time no true one at all yea though I have obtained mercy and such mercy as to be made a Minister thereof since because I did what I did ignorantly yet so far was I then from a Minister of the Gospell that I rather rejected the counsell of God against my self being not baptized of them that preached it and disputed much against it as well as you And now as unto your third quaery viz. what Commission have any to baptize in that manner that is by dipping which you stile such an irra●ional and undiscreet way t is that which I have resolved you in so satisfactorily before that unlesse you have more to say against it then to miscal it as you do before you have proved it to be so base as you are pleased to stile it I shall rejoice in Christ Jesus that hath chosen such foolish and base things as dipping in water is in the account of men however excellent in it self and in proof of its warrantableness unles it be occasionally add no more Rantist I have referred you already where you shall find exception against all you have said before as concerning the truth of the way of baptism and I desire that you would find your self work a little therewith I mean
of the civil powers have been d●nd by the usual addresses of the PPPriesthood unto them for help against Hereticks and Schismaticks and by their hideous outcries viz. of the Prelates against the Presbyters saying help O King and the Presbyters against the Sectaries help O Parliament all will be overspread with a Gangrene of Heresie Murder Murder c. O ye Magistrates restrain dipping in cold water as you will save the lives of your subjects and such stuff and felly as is powred out to the Magistrate by the Minister against men more true to Christ and Magistracy then himself I humbly conceive the Magistrate may lawfully and more acceptably to God then otherwise save himself so much labour as to let these matters alone yea he may do well to see that whatever Religion men be of that are under his civil power in each state whether Iewish Turkish Heathenish Popish Prelatical Presbyterian or Independent may not be injurious each to other without satisfaction in civil matters and to see that none commit any uncivil actions that are contrary to that common honesly and righteousnesse among men which men as magistrates are set to vindicate to see that none live be they of this or that Religion dishonestly without correction to see that none usurp Dominion over each others faith so as to make all men believe as some do whether they see ground to believe so yea or no by the civil sword to see that in order to their own eternal good they find out and walk in the way of truth themselves as it is in Jesus and when they are once assured that they are in the truth themselves to let that truth be verbally declared per se or per alios as much as they please but not forced upon others as their faith further then the light of preachings and discourses may prevail to fasten it on others consciences and to see that even enemies to the Gospel and true Church may have no more then the weapons of the Churches warfare which are not carnal used towards them to make them friends and as to those who walk in truth whoever they are or shall but be supposed by the successive representatives Princes or Powers to walk in the way of truth to see that they be countenanc't but not too much maintenanc't because Christs disciples nor cookt up to all the honour and preferment and places of trust and advantage above their fellow subjects to the ingendring of jealousies and emulations in others that may be happily though not so neer the truth of Christ yet as trusty to the State as themselves for that too often choaks the Church but onely that with an indifferent impartial hand as men whether in Church or out being otherwise honest and able and of publique spirits not selfish nor covetous nor cruel c. may seem fit to be intrusted with such and such places so they may be chosen and disposed of thereunto in a word to see that such as make prayers and supplications and intercessions and giving of thanks for all men for Kings and such as are in authority living in all godlinesse and honesty may as well as others and others also as well as they living soberly and honestly though not Godly in Christ Jesus nor worshipping in way of truth but falsly may live a quiet and peaceable life without persecution as to confiscation bonds or death for doing and denying according to the dictates of their own though yet blinded conscience and that men of all Religions may live without molestation one from another any more then by meer manifestations of their light one to another at seasonable times in wayes of query disputation and preaching and then to leave all men to worship God according to their several wayes even misbelievers Hereticks and Iewes themselves and others that yet believe not in Christ but deny him till the Lord lend them light by the word of truth and to stand or fall to their own master Christ Jesus to whom every conscience shall give account of it self at last who if any man hear his words and believe not nor receives but rejects them judges him not here either by himself or the civil magistrate or by his Church any further then to non-communion with them yet by the word that he hath spoken unto him will judge every man at the last day Thus it is most evident the magistrate whether Christian or Heathen is to do and not otherwise viz. to give protection to men as men living honestly soberly and justly without respect to their Religions whether true or false And as to Religions to allow Tolleration to all men to practise according to their principles the practise of whose principles is not directly destructive to the true Religion common honesty civillity morallity righteousnesse and the peace and safety of the Common-wealth as some mens principles are if put in practise yet verily I know none among Christians at least save those of the two Spiritualties vix the Rantizing PPPriest that in his precincts which is the whole world could he catch it would have no tolleratian for any way of worship but his own and the Ranting Prophet who would have toleration of all and more too not onely all Religions but all as well unciuill unnatural lewd abominable as irreligious actions which nature it self cries shame on among beasts magistracy finds it self an ordinance of God to give correction to among heathens for those men are now acting upon the stage of whom Iude speaks when he saies Iude 10. what they know naturally as bruit beasts in those things they corrupt themselves the principles of that old PPPriest and this new Prophet if practised in the hight of them are utterly inconsistent with the standing of truth in the world untrampled viz. that of the Priest and also with the standing of very manhood among men of civility in civil states of the common-health of the Common-wealth it self viz. that of the Prophet the one is so far from owning any power to be a terror to evil works and incouragement to good that despising all Government and speaking evill of dignities he holds that there is at all neither good nor evil nor better nor worse amongst works but all alike and then good Lord how fast must iniquity dishonesty unrighteousnesse and incontinency thrive and abound upon earth to the ripening of 〈◊〉 for the sickle when it shall be acted with allowance from such a principle as this viz. that there is now no iniquity at all this man would have the civil power allow all Religions and good Manners too but allowes of none at least thinks he needs use none himself and is for a Toleration of all truth in the world though all truth is the intollerablest thing in the world to him and though it hath leave from him to grow besides him and will too among some yet he hopes to loosen it by lending it so much scope
i. e. the Pope is the native Father of the Bishops and therefore he must be at least the Grand-father of you Presbyters Yet some of you are so ashamed to have it said that as Ministers of Christ you receive your orders and standing as such from Antichrist that you professe not to act in your ordinations to and executions of the ministerial function as from Gregory the Great but to renounce that and to ordain now not as Presbyters that were in orders from such as were in orders from the Pope but rather as persons deputed so to do by the ordinances of Parliament extant to that purpose and by the power and appointment of the Civil Magistrate who say you is he that only hath power to raise all again since the treading down in matter of both Ministry and Ordinances and may as well do it with his own hands if he please as appoint you to do it making him the chief officer that Christ hath set in his Church to redresse all that 's amisse in it such a Mish-mash as this was once more largely uttered by Mr. Glenden in a discourse at Swevenock in order to the proving the Ministry of the Church of England to be a true Ministry But if the Magistrate were any Church officer as at all he is not so as that men that have their orders from his ordinances as it seems the Junior Sophisters of this age have are as to the outward call or ordination true Ministers of Christ yet that makes nothing to the proving of you to be so that stand Ministers of the old stamp from the hands of the old Lord Bishops besides some yea it may be the most of you that hold your present authority to ordain in from the Parliament scarce held the Parliament while it stood of any authority at all since the last new modelling of it so discontented were you that your Northern model was in no more request yea though you held it such a lawful and sufficient power when they made an ordinance for Tith and Trebble dammages that you held your selves bound in conscience to God or rather your own good to obey it and improved you selves to the utmost to see it executed on conscientious delinquents against it yet when ordinances for double service came as solemn fasts witnesse that of Iun. 13.1652 so strictly enjoined to be observed by the Ministers of every parish how many of you drew your necks out of the coller as not owning the then Parliament to be a power that you might lawfully submit to thus an ordinance that is charged topful of benefice you durst venture to let off but when one came that had nothing but bare office in the mouth of it then they by whose orders you pretended to stand in both benefice and office might give order to discharge it twice before you would once discharge it And as your meet Mongrell Caesarean Magistratical Pope-episcopall kind of Ordination together with that unworthy unPastorlike forcible Obtrusion of your selves as Pastors on people without their free election so your Popelike practises and unministerly management of your selves in all other particulars doth proclaim you plainly to be no true Ministers of Christs Gospel nor true Pastors of the flock but rather to be Wolves Theeves Robbers Hirelings that come not in by the dore Jesus Christ but climb into the folds some otherwaies to wit the recommendation of great men and sometimes buying the gift of the spirit i. e. a spiritual living yet modestly saying No thrice as the Bishops when they had given a thousand pound for the place and improvement of your interest in your Patrons and do come into spoil steal destroy and serve your own selves of them as well as you can while you are with them and so away again to make a prey of some other parishes for verily if you can spie out any flocks that have better fleeces then other leaving those you lived with before to shift for themselves without their leave with the leave of such as pretend to the power of presentment you l be their Pastors whether they will or no but if any of you be chosen for their churchmen by a poor people that want a great Benefice for their Cure they must for you want the Benefit of a Cura●e Yea what maintenance is in this or that vacant parish which you are harping after is one of the main Questions thats about it yea Ye minister for maintenance ye teach for reward ye preach fo● hire ye divine for money ye turn the Gosspel into a meer trade to the learning of which you put men out as Apprentices about some seven years to the universities and then allow them as free men therof to set up for themselves and get as good livings by it as they can where you may be sure of sufficient wages you will tell men a little of the truth and truely t is not much of it that you know but you care not how little you preach of that little you have to preach where you can hope to have but little pay for your pains Wo to yee O ye National PPPriesthood t is too too eviden that you are not the Shepheards of the sheep yea you are the idol-shepheards that leave the flock to provide for your selves not regarding their welfare when by s●incking away from them you can provide but a little better for your own you are exceptis excipiendis saving some few hundreds among many thousands Hirelings ' that flee to prefer better secure advance or advantage your selves because you are Hirelings and care not for the sheep you are Pastors that are become bruitish you have not sought the Lord but your selves for the most part therefore shall ye not prosper but your sheep shall be scattered away from you Ier. 10. yea verily you drive them from you dayly more and more not onely by many pieces of your dry divinity but specially with your terrible doctrine of trebble damages in which you drive so furiously upon them that you drive them both out of your dores and their own also you have an evill eye of covetuousnesse and greedinesse upon the tenth of every mans substance and therefore you loose no time while the law of man favours you in it though not the man Christ Jesus and spare no pains but take scrape strive streign ride run rake wrangle weary out your selves and neighbours and all Courts and Committees in City and Country to have something out of every thing for doing worse then nothing till you not onely trebbly endamage but totally undo many poor mens wives and childrens bodies and your own souls too except ye repent little considering that an inheritance gotten hastily in the beginning shall not be blessed in the end you devour widowes houses and for a pretence make long prayers and therefore will receive greater damnation you Tith mint and rue and all manner of herbs corn lamb
contrary unto truth for women may be Magistrates but not Church Ministers and may be Supreme in authority in a State as Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth but are bid to be under obedience and fordid in Church matters so much as to speak much more to usurp authority in the Church 1 Tim. 2.11.12 1 Cor. 14.34.35 viz. in refusing to be judge in matters of faith and religion * For Custos et vindex ut ciusque tabulae under the Gospel because it was sounder that typical standing of the Law is but a tale and a trick of our Priests whereby to curry ●avour with their princes the truth is that whole Jewish State which was also a Church as no one whole nation under heaven now is was a type and both the Kingly Priestly and Prophetical office that then headed that Church were typical of that tripple true head of the Gospel Israel Christ Jesus and are no more to be drawn in as an example so as to argue more warrantably from the Kings then to the civil Rulers now then from the High-PriestHood to the Popedome * my Petition to the powers on behalf of the Church is that it may have as much peace and as little preferment as they please for ever Cum Ecclesia peperit divitias filia devoravit matrem y Two spritualties whereof as bad as the first is the latter will be more sensuall then the former having not the Spirit Jude 17. though pretending to it more supremely then the other under which last the devil now acts as under a new vizard to the deceiving of people from the way of truth perceiving his old vizard worn so thin that all men begin now to see through it * Luk. 9.53.54 55. * Witness the Iesuites that may kil Kings if Hereticks the Northen presbitery that may lawfully fight England if it receive not their directory and the Episcopal war against the State * So Iulius the second who seeing himself vanquisht ●hrew away Saint Peters keyes into the River Tyber protesting he would thence forth help himself with S Pauls sword * The contrary to which where ere t is well may men submit out of fear till they can help themselves but never out of love while the world stands for conscience is a tender thing and though but a worm yet if trod upon wil turn again * Howbeit they shall never want flatterers to perswade them that they are Abj. Ans. * Vid. Tho. Beacons Reliques of Rome set forth cum privilegio 1563. Pope Servitius ordained that Hereticks should be banisht An. 588. fol. 214. Pope Pelagius the first that all Hereticks and Schismaticks should be put to death by the secular power provided that the Bishops in their spiritual courts do first prosecute convict and condemn them for Hereticks and then commit them to the temporal Magistrate to dispatch them out of the way by fire sword or halter for they say as the chief priests to Pilate it is not lawful for us to put any to death In the councel of Lateran by Innocent the third 2 Patriarchs 70 Arch-bishops 400 Bishops twelve Abbots 800 Priests the Legates of the Greek and Roman Empire the Embassadors of Spain Jerusalem France England Cyprus it was decreed that all Hereticks and so many as should in any point resist the Catholique faith should be condemned that the secular power of what degree soever should be compelled openly to swear for the defence of the Catholique faith and to the utmost of their power to root out and destroy in their kingdomes all such persons as the Catholique Church should condemn for Hereticks and if any King should be a Heretick or defender of them and not reform within a year then his subjects should be absolved by the Pope from yielding any further subjection or obedience to him or keeping any fidelity with him and so t was in the case of John here in England who resigned to the Popes Legate his Crown kissing his knee as he came into England which John was after poisoned by a Monk who having his pardon from the Pope poisoned himself first to poison the King and also that the Pope may give that land to Catholiques to possesse peaceably and without contradiction all Hereticks being rooted out of it Obj. Ans. * 1 Sam 5.24 * which he hath more faith then I that believes they ever will for surely the CCClergies Win all or lose all will pull them down at last * 2 Es. 15.5 to the 12.49 to 57. Rev. 11.10.6.19.2 * for howbeit it was the Roman civil power in Potius Pilate passing sentence yet it was the Priestly malice that caused him to be crucified or else Pilate had released him so its Princely power but PPPriestly malice crying out crucifie him crucifie him that hath caused him under the Gospel be crucified in his truth and Saints or else many of the civil Powers would release him * Rom. 13.1 1 Pet. 2.13 Magistrates are called the ordinance of God as the materiality of the thing we call government is of him the ordinance of man as to the particular form of government viz. whether it shall be by Kings Parlia c. and also the particular persons that shall execute that form is altogether in choice of the people * Act. 18.12.13.14 * Se supra p. 279. * For that name Clergy however by themselves improperly impropriated to themselves as if they onely were the heritage of God for that 's the plain English of that Anglico-greek word Clergy yet in plain truth pertains properly to all Christs people and that in contradistinction too from the Ministry for the spirit speaking of the Elders and Pastors of the Church charges them not to Lord it over the heritage i. e. in other location not to domineer over the Clergy 1 Pet. 5.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. we see therefore God calls the flock and not the Sheepheards muchlesse the Sheepshearers by the name of Clergy but the Pope as if he had projected purposely to betheeve Gods people out of all their priviledges and rights leaves them not so much as their own proper name to be known by but bestows the name of Clergy upon the Creatures of his own creating and leaves them the name of Laicks in its stead telling them when they begin to charge his CCClergy with impropriation of preaching and pay to themselves that they are but a Clergy of Laicks see Featleys Epistle but to say the truth excepting some few of his sons of the Episcopal and Presbyterian CClergy that are come from him two wayes viz. by dissent and descent who may be honester and wiser then the rest and yet are not so wi●e as to know their own father the rest are mostly A CCClergy of Lazicks or lazy locusts In like manner hath he ingrost other titles to himself and his CCClergy all which the Scripture gives to all Christs people as namely that of Spiritual men as if all the world
were but Natural at least but Temporal men besides themselves thus the Bishops were called Lords Spiritual and other Lords Lords Temporal so that of Priests see the book of Common-prayer and of ordination of Priests and Deacons whereas these are titles afforded by the spirit to all the Saints of God as well as some 1 Cor. 3.15 1 Pet. 2.9 Rev. 1.6.5.10 yet I call them by these names because these are now the most common names whereby they are known or else properly I cannot call them by these nor by any other names whereby they commonly call themselves I cannot call them the Spiritualty for not one of many of them hath any Spiritualnesse in him I cannot call them Divines for they are rather Humanes if they have their due whilst they teach Gods fear after mens precepts and for doctrines the Traditions of men I cannot call them the Tribe of Levi for Levi though he took Tith according to the Law whereof he was the Priest in the loines of Abraham paid Tithes to the person of that high Priest that we are under viz. Melchizedeck or the King of Righteousnesse Christ Iesus but these are so far from paying Tithes to Christ that they most grievously gripe his people if they pay it not to them I cannot call them Ministers i. e. servants of Christ of the Church for they are rather Lords and Masters over his heritage unlesse Servus Servorum and Dominus Dominorum may stand together I cannot call them Pastors or Shepheards till I can own their Parishes for Christs Sheep for if we denominate them by the General temper of their people they profess to stand Pastors too they seem to be Swinheards rather by their people swallowing in the mire I cannot call them Presbyters or Elders though some of them be Seniores annis unlesse they were Saniores Animis then they are for they are not yet sound nor Orthodox in either their judgements doctrine or practise so long as they are against the truest baptism and abide unbaptized I cannot call them Preachers of the Gospel for they preach down that Gospel which was at first preached concerning Christs dying for the sins of the whole world I cannot call them Bishops or Overseers of Christs flock in the spirits sense i. e. in respect of their care to take heed to or feed it but Overseers in another sense rather I may properly stile them for verily Christs flock is so little and low poor and plain mean and base hated and dispised and themselves so lofty and high minded that as not many noble and mighty so few or none of these wise men after the flesh can stoop or look so low as it is and so for the most part they oversee it and lastly if those be the true Clergy and Priests of God that are obedient to his word as the Scripture saies they are the CCClergy need not find fault as they do with the Mar-priests of these times for in very deed the CCClergy PPPriests and Presbiters have been the truest Priest-biters Claw-clergies and Mar-Priests themselves * Rem enim indignam esse putant c. saith Calvin Inst. li. 4. c. 11.5.15 they deem it a disparagement that they should be made to answer in their own personall causes before any civil Magistrate and suppose both the liberty and dignity of the Church i. e. the Clergy to ly in an exemption from the common seats of judicature and their laws but the Bishops of old who were otherwise strict enough in pleading the priviledges of the Church did judge it no disgrace either to themselves or their function to subject themselves to civill powers * whose work lay mostly in reading service in old time till the Gospel came again to be p●eached in these latter daies Act. 19.24 to 39. * who saw some truth in their daies wherein t was twilight but not all that is now to be seen for though I reverence the men as I do every man that sees truth as far as it shines clearly in his time yet Luther left much truth unseen to himself behind him and some of Calvins●nstitutions ●nstitutions too are none of Christs * For verily these Starrs for their light of learning as Dr. Featley confesses p. 165.166 have been the Authors devisers and broachers of Heresies yea peruse saith he if thou please all the antient Heresies listed by Epiphanius Austin Philastrius Alphonsus a castro Ambrosius de Rusconibus and others and therein thou shall find the Ring-leaders great Clerks and accute Sophisters whence is that true observation of Tertullian Philosophi Hereticorum Patriarchae Philosophers have been the great Grandfathers of Hereticks Nahum 3. thy crowned are as the locusts O King of Assyria Apollyon in the Antitype * Of which chain of succession of Ministry if but one link fail or chance to be lost so that it meets with interruption you confesse all your Ministry lies on the ground too and cannot at any hand be counted valid or raised again and yet if there was not a breach of that line in the link of Pope Joan aliâs Gilberta an English woman born at Lin who was both literally and mystically the Whore of Rome and therefore far I wot from being a true Presbyter or Minister of Christs Church in which women are forbid to usurp authority then my understanding failes me not a little * Who by Austin the Monk dispatcht an Ordination hither with resolution about infants viz. that in case of necessity they might be baptized by which ordination men have ever since bin authorized to ordain here and such as have been ordained to baptize * For the civil Magistracy may reside in women as is also shewed above who though by Pope Ioanes example they may yet by Pauls rule they may not usurp authority in the Church * For now that 's put down also as to the present session as every power will be and that suddenly and with shame that puts down others for tyranny covetousness unrighteousness self settlement in greatnesse and delay of justice to poor people that cry for it in these latter daies and yet succeeds them in the same sins and in such security as to say Populus me sibilet at mihi plaudo Ipsa domi simulac nummos contempler in Arca. * I mean take tith for you pay none * of which you have the fift not the tenth if the husbandmans charges be all considered * If you were not blind your selves you would gather thus much from that viz. that while men are blind they sat under your ministry but when once they begin clearly to see they can see no ground to sit under you any longer * Nicholas the first was I think the first that prohibited the Clergy marriage saying that it was more honest to have to do with many women privately then openly to take one wife Insomuch that a Priest of Placentia being accused to have a wife and children was deprived of his Benefice but