Selected quad for the lemma: power_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	ordain_v	ordination_n	presbyter_n	4,289	5	10.5064	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A31440	Independencie a great schism proved against Dr. Owen, his apology in his tract of schism : as also an appendix to the former discourse, shewing the inconstancy of the Dr. and the inconsistency of his former and present opinions / by D. Cawdrey ...	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1657 (1657)	Wing C1630; ESTC R8915	103,968	258

Ordinances of the worship of God p. 245. are rightly to be administred only in a Church and Ministers do evidently relate thereunto the denyal of a National Church-state seems to deny that we had either Ministers or Ordinances here in England How will he answer this especially having renounced his own Ministry received in this National Church and all besides in respect of Church Communion except his Baptism as null or naught Thus he saies and that 's all It may seem so to do but it doth not unlesse you will say that unlesse ye be a National Church-state there is no other which is too absurd for any one to imagine The consequence cannot well be denyed in his notion of this Church For if there were no Ministers but ordained by those National Officers and those Officers not of Christs institution as he hath often pleaded it follows necessarily that first there were no Ministers lawful in this Church and so no Ordinances truly administred in it and at last no Church at all This I doubt or rather believe by what he hath said is his judgement but he durst not speak out For I ask Does he in his conscience believe there were any true Ministers in this Church in the time of its being National and if no Ministers no Ordinances rightly administred But why does he not tell us what that other Church-state is of which he speaks he denies all but the Independent state of new gathered Churches which were not found in the Prelates times except some Brownistical Societies we shall not thank him for this jejune and empty vindication but shall plead for our selves Our former Divines of the first reformation and since have pleaded and justifyed their Ordination for the essentialls of it received from Rome which being purged from all those super-induced corruptions they propagated unto us who may therefore the better justifie our own Those Bishops that ordained us had as he told us above a double capacitie One as Lord Bishops received from the state p. 227. Another as Ministers of the Gosspell to preach administer Sacraments to joyne in Ordination of Ministers p. 231. Now in this latter some of themselves professed and so we understood it that they ordained Presbyters as presbyters not as Bishops Hence it followes that though they presumed to themselves a Lordly power not according unto the institution of Christ whereby they called themselves a nationall Church c. Yet the Ordination being according to the Rule of the Gospell as we beleive it is sufficiently proved and never yet sufficiently answered there were Ministers lawfully called and Ordinances by them rightly administred and that is the other Church state which he would not doe us the honour to name least he should there by condemn himself as a Schismatick in departing from this Church-state These true and faithfull Ministers with their people in their severall Congregations administring the true Ordinances of Jesus Christ whereof their baptism was one were and still are the true Church-state of England for which we plead and he hath forsaken Some additions of humane prudence cannot annull the Ordinances of Christ § 6 The way of the prelates he told us p. 235. p. 246. to stablish a nationall Church was descendendo of the Presbyterians ascendendo That is that such a thing should rise from the particular Congregations by sundry Associations and subordinations of Assemblyes in and by the representatives of those Churches But this may prove a mistake For 1. The Presbyterians rather goe descendendo as well as the prelates did at least in part They agree both in this that they acknowledge their rise and originall to be from the Apostles who were the first founders of all Churches and the supreme Officers of the Church For them were other Ministers ordained in subordination to them Bishops say some Archbishops and then Bishops say others and they ordained Presbyters subordinate unto them or as he styles them parochiall Priests p. 235 The Presbyterians say the Apostles first made Presbyters and gave them power to rule their particular Churches and as occasion required to meet together by Delegates in a Classis or Synod as that ●t Jerusalem consisted partly of Elders with the Apostles 2. They lay the rise of Ministerial power to be universall as well as the Prelates supposing a Minister to be a Minister in what part soever of the world his lot happen to be and do not upon his removall give him a new Ordination though he may not for order sake exercise that power but when and where he hath a call 3. That call may be different 1. as he is called to take care of a particular Congregation 2. as a Delegate to a Classis or Synod which himself allowes in the Independent way as above 3. As he is in the absence of a particular Minister desired to Preach or Baptise or do any other Ministeriall dutie to another people as when the Parliament commands Doctor O. to Preach a Sermon to and pray with them Now this Delegation which he meanes by ascendendo doth not give him a new power distinct from what he had before by his Ordination but a particular designation to act this power pro hic nunc As he hath often heard but will take no notice of it § 7 Whether a Church may be called nationall p. 247. when all the particular Congregations of one nation agreeing in doctrine and worship are governed by their greater and lesser Assemblyes as some learned Divines have asserted I will not dispute but leave what they have said to the further consideration of their Adversaries Though this may be said they did not make this the only or the principall way of that denomination That was rather when all the Congregation of a nation agree in the Doctrine and worship and celebrate it accordingly The Disciplinary part or form of Government is not essential to the Church nor absolutely necessary and the Church may exist and be nationall without it much lesse do any of ours say That subjection to one civill Government and agreement on the same doctrine and worship specifically c doth constitute one Church or as he expresses it afterwards p. 251. they do not say that being under one civ●ll government does constitute a Nationall Church for if so sayes he its forme and unitie as such must be given it by the civill Government For the unitie thereof consists still in the agreement in the same doctrine and worship and not in the modell of civill Government of what kind soever p. 250. And if he allow as he does an Association of the Delegates from severall Churches to meet for matters of common concernment by the same reason whether it be by Institution or prudence he must allow those subordinate Assemblyes For the light of nature teaches the necessitie of Appeales in male-administrations for ending of troubles and decision of differences in particular Congregations as was instanced in the

and never scrupled it to be rebaptized why not Ordination also without a new Ordination They received not baptism from them as if instituted by Antichrist but as an Ordinance of Christ They baptized not as Antichristian not as Bishops or Romish Priests but as Presbyters in whose hands we say Ordination also is Onely since we have taken away those humane Additions which they had sinfully introduced into the Ordinances of Christ The Scriptures are not the Inheritance of Rome but Priviledges for all the people of God where ever they find them and therefore we deny we received them from Rome any more than the Jews received the Golden vessells from Babylon because they were sent by the hands of Cyrus It s false then that Ordination is pleaded from the Authority of the Church of Rome p. 199. as such Nor doth the granting true Ordination as also true baptism to the Church of Rome prove that it is a true Church This he sayes he understands not They who ordained had no power so to do but as they were officers of that Church as such they did it and if others had ordained who were not officers of that Church all will confesse that action to be null Do but change the scene to baptism and heare what he will say They who baptized had no power so to do but as officers of that Church as such they did it both which must be denyed See Apol. against Brown Sect. 27. or he must deny his baptism They did it as Officers not as Officers of that Church that Papall Antichristian Hierarchy And if others had baptised ordained who were not Officers of that Church or they as Officers but not as Officers of that Church which is as a scab upon the hand no rationall man hitherto hath asserted that action to be null This is no such dark passage that the Doctour cannot see one step before him unlesse his new light hath dazled his eyes that he cannot see Wood for Trees which before he fell into this way he saw so many learned and pious men walk in before him For our parts See p. 199 But they who will not be contented c. we professe that in his way of personall qualifications and acceptation of the people to make a man without Ordination a Minister the passages in Scripture or Church stories are so darke that wee cannot see one step before us But this hath sufficiently by others been discussed CHAP. VII Of the particular Church and its Union § 1 VVE are now come to the last Acception of a Church as it frequently signifies a particular Church p. 202. though all the places produced by the Doctor do not I think prove that sense But I shall not contend about it That the Church of Hierusalem was called one Church is true but that those many thousands could meet in one Congregation in one place is nothing probable it possible But take his definition of a particular instituted Church It is a Societie of men called by the word to the obedience of the Faith in Christ and joynt performance of the worship of God in the same Individuall Ordiances according to the order by Christ prescribed In this definition there are some things to be considered 1. The definition of a particular Church by him given will be applicable and is by himselfe or others of his side applyed to the three severall notions of a Church or the Church in those severall notions 1. To the Catholick invisible Church It is a Societie of men called out of the World D. Ames The Church in generall is a societie of men called out of the world p. 64 s 2. by the Word to the obedience of the faith in Christ and joynt performance of the worship of God in the same Individuall Ordinances according to the order by Christ prescribed This is all of it true of the invisible Church they are called which will be the onely exception to the joynt performance of the worship of God in the same specificall and where its possible individuall Ordinances And all the members thereof ordinarily being of some particular Church it s both possible and necessary to joyne in that performance 2. The same may be said of the Catholick visible Church It is a Societie of men called out of the World by the Word c So himselfe describes it It is a collection of all that are duely called Christians in respect of their profession p. 113. and before that p. 112. All Professors of the Gospell throughout the World called to the knowledge of Christ by the Word do make up and constitute his visible Kingdome by their professed subjection to him which subjection hath reference to the commands of Christ to worship him in the same specificall Ordinances indefinitely and in the same Individualls where they are administred And the members of this Church living ordinarily in some particular Church its possible and necessary for them also to joyne in that performance And this is as much is the members of a particular Church are bound to no man being bound to what is to him impossible and it often happening by absence sicknesse or otherwise that it is not possible for them to joyne in that worship 3. That it is the definition of a particular Church we also grant as understood afore 4. But we shall adde by way of improvement that such societies are all our particular Congregations Societies of men called out of the world by the word c holding parallel in every particular with his definition and why we should not be esteemed and called Churches as well as theirs I am to learne the reason What exception may be made we shall heare an one § 2 2. The Order prescribed by Christ is not that all Christians must be of the same Individuall particular congregation but of this or that as is most convenient for them by their habitations Supposing severall meetings or Congregations in Jerusalem one of Paul another of Apollo c no man was obliged by any order from Christ to be of Pauls Congregation or of anothers so he joyned himselfe to one for the participation of the same Ordinances And when a Christian did joyne himselfe to this or that Congregation he did not explicitely enter into a Covenant Every belie is obliged to joyne himselfe to some one of those Churches that therein he may abide in doctrine and fellowship and breaking of bread and prayer p. 206. to live and dye in this Congregation but thought himselfe bound to be of one by the obligation of his membership in the Catholike Church with a libertie reserved to remove to another if he saw just reason as our Authour will confesse anone Whence it is evident that from the beginning of Christianity there was no such explicite covenanting or as some speake marrying of the Minister and people or of people one to another that they might not depart without leave but as they had