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A69024 A replie to a relation, of the conference between William Laude and Mr. Fisher the Jesuite. By a witnesse of Jesus Christ Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. 1640 (1640) STC 4154; ESTC S104828 423,261 458

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be so mortified as to be dead to these things and not any more to suffer themselves in such things to be vassalized by men which to doe is to deny Christs death and so to fall away from Christ not holding the Head that is not holding Christ as the Apostle Saith v. 19. And therefore he chargeth Saying Let no man beguile your reward or the Crowne of your victory as the word imports in a voluntary humility c. That is Subject not your selves to mens devises in matters of Religion though they have never so faire pretences of voluntary humility and devotion for so you suffer your selves to be spoyled of your Crown that you fight for as Christ Saith Hold fast that thou hast that no man take thy Crown Thus we see that it is a matter of no small moment and consequence to be subject to Mans devises in matters of Religion and Gods worship when it is a denyall of Christs death yea a falling from Christ and so a loosing of our eternall Crown And here againe on the other side such as wil be Masters of Ceremonies in the service of God may take notice of their damnable pride and presumption in daring to bring into bondage the people of God whom Christ with his own precious blood hath redeemed from all such Slavery And for matter of decencie Is it decent for a Judge set over a Province by the King or Supreame Magistrate with expresse written Laws how to govern and no otherwise to take upon him to rule them as he list and to yeeld what service to the King he pleaseth Or is it decent that one King subordinate to a higher as Emperour or so as King Herod was to Caesar Augustus should presume to make Laws to bind Caesars Subjects without any expresse warrant so to doe Now all earthly Princes are subordinate to Christ as his vice-gerents who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords Nay more then this Christs Kingdome here on earth is Spirituall and the Laws therof altogether spirituall enacted by his Spirit and recorded in the Scripture Is it decent then that earthly Powers or Princes or Priests how ever styled should make Laws according to their carnall fancies for the government of this Spirituall Kingdome and the service of God who wil be served in Spirit and Truth Yea in this Spirituall Kingdome Christ our King keeps his perpetuall residence by his Spirit immediatly and that in the heart soule spirit and conscience of every one of his Subjects and Saints the true beleevers So the Apostle But Christ as the Son ●ver his own house whose house we are c. And you are the Temple of the living God as God hath Said I will dwell in them and walke in them and I wil be their God and they shal be my people Wherfore come out from among them and be ye Seperate Saith the Lord and touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you And I wil be a Father unto you and ye shal be my Sons and Daughters Saith the Lord Allmighty And Know ye not that ye are the Temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you If any man defile the Temple of God him will God defile or destroy For the Temple of God is holy whose Temple ye are And Ye are built up a Spirituall house an holy Priesthood to offer up spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. Now is every true beleever the Temple of God a Spirituall house over which the Son of God ruleth as King and in which he dwelleth and walketh in which also spirituall Sacrifices and Services are offered up in Christs Name as himselfe hath commanded in his word And is all strange service devised by men a profaning of the Temple of God as the Scripture every where teacheth And must Gods people Seperate themselves from all such profanesse and touch no unclean thing by subjecting themselves to profane ordinances of men whereby they should cast off God for their Father and Christ for their King and the Holy Ghost from his residence and dwelling in them Then how not onely undecent but unholy profane and impious is it for any sort of men whatsoever to impose the devices of their own brains upon the Consciences of Gods people in the worship of their God What is this but to thrust Christ out of his Throne as before and to set up an Antichristian Throne of Tyranny like Caesars Image in the Temple the abomination of desolation in the living and spirituall Temples of Iesus Christ Thus Christ being that O●kodespotes the Father of the Family of God is it decent for any Steward Such whose Office you doe usurpe of his own head without warrant to give carnall Lawes to the Family for their spirituall Service to their Lord and to beat them if they refuse to conforme unto them Secondly neither is it according to Order for men to Set up Ceremonies in Gods service First because they have no order from God so to doe So as God may Say unto them Who required these things at your hands And In vain they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commandements of men Againe 'T is the greatest violation of Order in the World for any Man to usurpe and exercise a Tyranny over his Fellow-Servants which the Lord hath expresly forbidden and which he will most severely punish And of all Tyrannies in the world is not this the greatest and most intolerable to hold under the yoake of bondage the Consciences of Gods people in the observation of humane rites in the worship of God from all which Christ hath freed them by the shedding of his blood And will a King think it to be according to Order and not the highest degree of rebellion for a Subject to usurpe his Throne Can it then be either decent or orderly for any power on earth Prince or Priest or altogether to invade Christs Throne and therein exercise their Tyranny over his people Certainly such as doe so 't is just with God to thrust them out of their Thrones and to breake the Staffe of their Tyranny wherewith they beat his Children over their heads Thus this Scripture the Same weapon which you violently wrest and take out of Gods Armory to beat us withall we vindicate out of your hands and turne both edge and point against your usurped Tyranny And so being beaten out of the maine Fort which you had violently seased you can have small confidence in the rest But you goe on and Say Ceremonies in Religion the ancienter they be the better So they may fit Time and Place We all know your Lordship to be no small adorer of venerable and hoary Antiquity in point of Ceremonies Indeed Salomon Saith The hoary head is a Crown of glory if it be found in the way of Righteousnesse Els not And Tertullian an ancient writer of the Church Saith Antiquity without
would not commit to either of them any part of this his Prerogative in appointing what manner of service they thought good or in the fashion of building the Temple Nor yet did the Lord deliver the patterne of these things by tradition but in writing that in nothing they should come short or over shoot their bounds Neither had any of the Kings of Iudah the power afterwards either to adde or alter the least thing but at their perill No not the King and the Priest together as you would now have it So as when in a cafe of necessity no Law or Rule for us to take liberty to doe what we please without warrant from Gods word King Ezechias was to keep the Passeover in the Second Moneth he did it not alone nor with the Priest alone but with the unanimous assent and approbation of all the Princes and People in Ierusalem So as the thing pleased the King and all the Congregation Likewise when King David was to bring the Arke to Ierusalem he did it not alone or with the Priest alone but gathered all the chosen men of Israel together about it And what to doe Not what himselfe and they thought fit but according to the Law and Commandement of the Lord. And is it come to this passe now that the King and the Priest must doe all and that according to their owne Fancie in the worship and service of God When the Priest Vriah had according to the Kings Commandement built an Altar according to the patterne sent him by the King from Damascus on which the King offered Sacrifice did God approve it Is he not branded with this note which sticks upon his name to this day This is that King Ahaz And did not the Lord smite King Vzziah with Leprosie for offering Incense which pertained to the Priest onely And was not Vzzah smitten for but puting his Hand to stay the Arke when the Oxen shook it it not pertaining to him being but a Levite and not a Priest who onely was to meddle with the Arke So dangerous is it for men to take upon them be they Prince or Priest or both to intermeddle in any thing about the service of God which God hath not given them warrant for Now where hath Christ or his Apostles from him left any such power to man Prince or Priest or both as you claim and usurpe or to the Church to ordaine any Ceremonies in Religion to bind the Conscience of his People to the observation of them And if ye have either a pattern or pattent for it from Christ and under black and white in writing not by any unwritten Tradition produce and shew it But none can you shew we are sure I know your usuall places which you use to wrest for this purpose As 1 Cor. 14 4● Let all things be done Decently and in in Order Hereupon it seemeth your words of decencie and orderly settlement are grounded But what conclude you hence Ergo the King and the Priest although in things of this nature you use the King but as a Cypher to back and countenance the Priest in what he doth may appoint what Ceremonies they please in the service of God But frame your Argument in a Syllogisme All things in the Church are to be done Decently and in Order But for the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose what Ceremonies they please in Gods Service is Decent and Orderly Ergo it is left to the Power of the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose what Ceremonies they please in Gods Service Or thus What is Decent and according to Order is lawfull to be done in the worship of God But for the King and Priest to prescribe and impose Ceremomonies in Gods Service is Decent and according to order Therefore it is lawfull for the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose Ceremonies in the Service of God Now if I have not framed your Argument according to your mind I desire you to mend it But I conceive it is all that can be framed upon that test which you alledge so as if you argue not thus you can make nothing at all of it according to the Rules of Logick Nor for answere First I deny that the Apostle speakes there of the Service of God in Prayer but onely of an Order and Dencie in Prophecying such as was then in use in the Church as first that it should be done one by one and not confusedly Secondly that women should not be permitted to speak in the Church Thirdly that it be not in a strange tongue without an Interpreter And such like And to this hath that of the Apostle particular and immdediate reference Let all things be done decently and in order As for Praying in the Church the Apostle gives no other Rule but this that it be not done in a strange tongue Againe we have before excluded the Priest you speak of from having any thing at all to doe or meddle in Gods service for the Reasons fore-shewed So as if for the King and the Priest you put the Church I answere First your Prelaticall Church is a false Church as hath beed proved and so with your Priest is altogether excluded here from having any such power as to ordain Ceremonies in Gods service to bind the Consciences of Gods people For in so doing you shew your selves to be Antichrists and Tyrants over mens soules as before is shewed Secondly not even the true Churches and Congregations of Christ the King Minister and People put together have power to ordaine and impose any Ceremony in Gods service to bind the Conscience For the Apostles themselves neither had nor exercised any such power We find not any one footstep of it in all the New Testament But in this case Christians were left altogether free And the Apostle admonisheth the Collossians and in them all Christians Saying Beware least any man spoyle you through Philosophy and vaine deceit after the Tradition of men after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. And v. 16. Let no man judge you in meat or drink or in respect of an holy day c. which are a shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ. Let no man Judge you that is subject not your Conscience to Mans command and ordinance in these things as matter of Religion And v. 20. If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world why as living in the world are subject to Ordinances Touch not Tast not Handle not which all are to perish with the using being after the Commandements and Doctrine of men which have indeed a Shew of wisedome in will-worship and humility in neglecting of the body not in any honour to the Satisfying of the flesh The summe of all which is to shew that Christians being freed by Christs death from all humane Ordinances and Traditions in matters of Religion they ought to
Incendiary For behold Lord what havock is made in the Land What superstitions in will-worship what oppression of the Gospell what persecution of thy Ministers what effusion of their innocent blood What dispersion of their poore families What prophanation of thy holy Sabbaths What erection and adoration of Antichristian Altars and Images What suspension of the doctrines of Grace and Salvation What usurped Tyrannicall Domination over thy Ministers and People What imposition of the intollerable yoake of Ceremonies upon their necks bringing them againe under Antichristian bondage whom Christ by the shedding of his precious blood hath made free And what urging and pressing with furious rage reaching up to heaven the observation of all humane Ordinances while yea and whereby thy divine Ordinances are cast out And what wilt thou now doe to thy great Name Thou hast of late by terrible signes from heaven as it were by sound of Trumpet summoned the whole Land threatning to destroy it Surely the provocations are great were not thy Patience greater But thou expectest Repentance with Reformation of all these abominations But little appearance as yet and as little hope while such Books as this are Patronized and Authorized What then Lord Wilt thou therfore proceed to judge the whole Land for these things Surely the whole Land is defiled and so the cause were just But yet remember Lord that thou hast a remnant yet left therein that have not bowed the knee to Baal And consider withall that they are a Faction principally of some few persons as the Prelates that have caused such confusions in the Land And wilt thou destroy the righteous with the wicked farre be that from thee Shall not the Iudge of all the world doe right And even now do not thy People lift up strong cryes unto thee against their Aegyptian Taskemasters and Babylonian Lords And behold Lord what a desperate Leader this Faction hath got even as Iudas was to the Rowt the Primate and Metropolitan of all England those Antichristian Titles he so much vaunteth of who because he walkes in Factious and lawlesse by-wayes therefore hath this Fox for his better defence gotten upon him the Lyons skin pretending the King for the Author and Patron of all his practises Now the Foundations being thus cast down what can the Righteous doe But thou art in the holy Temple Thy Throne is in heaven wherein and whence thou swayest all Scepters here below Thou art the King of Kings and in whose band the Kings heart is as the rivers of waters turning it which way it pleaseth thee And thou hast of late mercifully turned his heart to grant to his Scottish People their ancient Christian liberty both by freeing them from Ceremonies and from the High Commissions thereby cutting shorter at least the Hornes of the Beast in the exercise of Prelaticall Tyranny Now ô Lord be pleased to perfect this thy worke both in Scotland and England and throughout all Christendome by causing the Kings of the Earth that formerly were as hornes to the Beast and had given their power unto him to hate the Whore and strippe her naked and that by throwing down the Hierarchy the maine Pillar of the Antichristian Throne which is advanced above and against the glorious Kingdome and Throne of our Lord Iesus Christ. And for this cause ô Lord open the Kings eyes clearely to see the notorious hypocrisie of his Prelate who under a Colour of Peace and Truth goes about to overthrow all true Peace and Truth in his Kingdome Let him see ô Lord how dangerous it is to maintaine or countenance an Antichristian Faction within his Kingdome Let him see how naked his Kingdome lyes at this time exposed to all the stormes of heaven through so many crying Sins and desperate iniquities which the whole Land groaneth under ready to sinke to the bottome of hell Let him see and be rowsed up to a more watchfull Care and diligent attention upon the grave and waighty affaires of a King and especially not to commit the Care of Religion to Romish Prelates which are no members of the true Church of Iesus Christ. And withall ô Lord quicken the Kings heart with a Coale from thine Altar even with the zeale of the Spirit of Iesus Christ to enter into a present strict examination of the State of Religion as it now stands in his Kingdome And because thou hast in mercy stirred up and strengthened a Servant of thine to discover to the King not onely the great dishonour his Name sustaineth but the great danger his Kingdome incurreth while such intollerable things are suffered as thy Servant hath in his Reply laid open Now ô Lord let it be thy pleasure to bring this worke to a full perfection by the publishing of it that so both the King and his People by taking knowledge thereof may come to see what a miserable condition they are brought into by one blinde guide and bold Prelate And let thy Spirit ô Lord awaken and quicken the minds of the Lords and Nobles of the King and State to consider what a base vassalage all those are brought under who suffer themselves to be made slaves to serve the lawlesse lusts of one domineering Primate and at length wisely to foresee the mischiefes which the Altering of Religion to the worse and reducing all back againe to Rome may and will certainly bring upon the Land and upon themselves too if not the more speedily prevented by a sound and serious thorow Reformation Make the great ones of the world ô Lord sensible that there is a judgement to come and that there is a terrible GOD above them that shall call them to a strict reckoning for all those ungodly practises wherein themselves have either been Agents or Instruments either Principalls or Accessories as in oppressing thy Word and Truth in persecuting thy faithfull Ministers and the like And Lord stirre up all thy people to fervent and continuall Prayer and strengthen them therein to persevere and watch untill an Answer come forth from thy Throne to all their Petitions and Supplications which from day to day they have and do and shall present unto thee Oh let not our God be angry with his people that pray unto him with unfained hearts and lips nor let their enemies Say Where is now their GOD But Lord stirre up thy strength and come and helpe us Put the wicked in feare O Lord that they may know themselves to be but men And shew some token upon thy servants for good that they which hate us may see it and be ashamed because thou Lord hast holpen us and comforted us And let the Atheisticall Scornfull world see that it is not in vain to serve God and to call upon him and to wait for him And now Lord avenge the Cause of Iesus Christ against Antichrist and break down Antichrists throne and exalt Christs Throne that himselfe alone may sit and rule and raigne over his People and the show● of that King may
this Relator professeth and teacheth a blind Charity sutable to his Faith which he boldly affirmeth to be not a mistaken Charity in granting that a silly ignorant Papist so living and dying may be Saved by his Ignorance in that Religion conforming himselfe to his Religious life and on the contrary condemning such Protestants of stiffenesse and churlishnesse that are not of the same Charity with him though the Replyer proveth that there is no true Charity without true Faith and Verity And whereas the same Relator is shewed in this Reply to give much more liberty to your Majesties Protestant People to go● to the Romish Masse as being with him one and the same undiffering Religion with that of England then the Jesuite doth to his blind Romanist to come to the English Church And whereas the same Relator hath many passages wherein he makes a Generall Councell of Prelates Iudge in all Controversies of Faith ascribing unto them an Infallibility and in case they shall erre and that even in grosse things and points of Faith yet that all men are bound to yeeld obedience at least externall till another Generall Counsell equall to the former reverse those Errours whereupon by Consequence of this Prelaticall doctrine as the Replyer doth instance the Church of England it self is bound to observe the worship of Images and the forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament c. decreed in Generall Councels and not yet reversed by other Generall Councels equall to those And whereas the Relator calls Transubstantiation Purgatory and the forbearance of the Cup but disputable and Improbable Questions the nature of which is to be taken indifferently Pro and Con And whereas he never once in all his Relation calls the Romish-worship of Images and of the Sacrament or any other Idolatry in all the Romish Church but onely by the name of Superstition abstaining altogether from the name of Idolatry as if with him the Roman Church were no Idolatresse And whereas he much lamenteth the Seperation and rent between the Protestants and Rome with the continuance of it although with the Iesuite he confesse that errour in Faith is just cause of separation And whereas he the same Relator doth cunningly yet palpably enough in sundry passages of his Booke as also he hath openly done viva voce at the High-Commission-Board exclude all the Reformed Protestant Churches beyond the Seaes as no Churches of Christ as not admitting the Hierarchy Finally also in his Book quipping Luther and in him all the Reformed Churches as having made a rent not onely from Rome with her corruptions but even from the Catholick Church it selfe which indeed in the Relators sense and difinition of the Catholicke Church is most true to wit from the universall Hierarchy And whereas he the Relator doth every where highly extoll his Ceremonies in Gods worship as without which he saith there is no light left to shine before men that they may see his Devotion and so glorify GOD therein most foulely and odiously perverting and abusing the holy Text of Scripture uttered by CHRIST to a cleane other purpose as the Replyer hath noted all which Ceremonies being a will-worship after the Tradition and Commandement of men the Apostle doth utterly condemn as wherby the very merits of Christs death are made of none effect who in his death destroyed All Ceremonies in Religion obliging the Conscience and not onely the Levitic●ll but all other whatsoever of humane Ordinance as the Replyer clearely proveth So as it is not left to any Power on Earth to impose the least Ceremony yea though it be of nature indifferent to bind the Conscience in the service of GOD seeing all such imposition is Antichristian Tyranny And whereas all Prelaticall Hereticall and Antichristian Faction erected by the Prince of darkenesse against Iesus Christ and his Kingdome as is apparent both by their profession and practice wherein they have nothing at all yea not any one thing to show wherein they resemble either Christ or any one of his Apostles except Iudas Christs Kingdome being altogether spirituall and not of this world but the Hierarchy a meere carnall and worldly Kingdome onely guilded over with the bare name of spirituall And whereas the Relator throughout his whole Booke bewrayeth his most palpable and profound ignorance and notorious blindnesse in the whole mystery of Faith and all true divinity in so much as when ever he Cites Scripture he still perverts it to a wrong sense and is not able to bring any proofe either from Scripture or Common Reason except from some of his Jesuiticall Authors for any of his Paradoxes and strange doctrines delivering all without Book tanquam è Cathedra as but of some Papall unerring Chaire upon the Authority of his bare word and upon meere trust And whereas the Relator saith That worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader and who of greater worth in the Church of England and in the Esteem of Great ones too then the Great Primate himselfe whose very word with many is taken as a divine Oracle So as if the Church and State of England will but pin their soules upon this Leaders sleeve he will not fayle to lead them in that way the issue whereof seem it never so right in the eyes of credulity will certainly prove to be as Solomon saith the wayes of death And whereas by the Relator sundry occasions are ministred to the Replyer of instancing divers practises charged upon the Prelate as the principall Agent or Instrument of setting up sundry Innovations in Religion in the Church of England all which have been done under his Primacie as The republishing under your Majesties Name the Book for liberty of profane Sports on the Lords day with pressing Ministers to read the Sayd Book in their severall Congregations and upon refusall extreamely persecuting them and thrusting them from their Ministry and meanes with their poore wives and children The authorizing and licencing of some Doctors Books which cry down the Morality of the 4 th Commandement for the Sanctifying of the Lords Sabbath day The setting forth of a New Order to restraine Preachers from Preaching in the Afternoones on the Lords dayes much pressed by the Prelates and their Officers in all their visitations The setting forth of a Declaration in your Majesties Name prefixed to the Articles of Religion which the Prelates practises plainly interpret to be for the restraining and prohibiting altogether the Doctrines of Saving Grace to be preached and wherein the genuine sense of those Articles touching Grace which formerly were universally interpreted to have but one sence agreeable to the Scripture is confounded with the heterodox hereticall doctrines of the Pelagians and Arminians so as none can tell what to make of those Articles saving that by this meanes the Orthodox Ministers must not preach the truth and the Adverse party and Faction may find footing and countenance for their groundlesse and gracelesse heresies and all this to the manifest
Replyer 23 24. A notable Prophecie of Scripture against the Anti Sabbatarians in these dayes 24. How the Prelate takes Gods Name in vain 25. Difference between Romes Fishermen and Christs 26 to 30. The Prelates subtile laying all the Load upon the King what ever be amisse 29 30. Good Laws may sleep ibid. What he meanes by the wakening of Discipline ibid. 12. The Prelates meaning of Anglers in a shallower water fished out 29. And how they differ from Romes Fishers The Prelates Councel to the King how perillous in his sly and subtile inticing him against godly Preachers The Prelates sly Speeches in some Cases how best interpreted by his Practises And how and what he Councelleth the King 29 30. Perillous Consequences of Prelates practises in altering of Religion how considerable for States 30 31. The Prelate put to his proofe whether he loves the Kings Crown or the Prelates Miter better 32. 13. Prelate how condemned of the Same Scripture by himselfe alledged 32 33. How the Prelate is an Enemy to the Gospell and to the preaching of it 33. What be the Prelates Foundations of Faith and how shaken 34. How the Prelates Practises not onely shake but quite overthrow the true Foundations of Faith and that by his own Instances wherein he is selfe-condemned and his palpable hypocrisie detected 35 36 37 38 39. Altars overthrow the Foundation Christ 35. 13 14. The Prelates comparison of the Church to a Hive of Bees Scanned so as nothing is left him but the Sting 40 41 42 43. Prelates and their Clergie no true Order of Priesthood 41. The Prelate calls his Hypocrisie Integrity and Sincerity The great difference between the King and the Prelates Priest about the Bee hive 41 42. And how perilously they are joyned together by the Prelate 43 44 What Integrity of the Church in Doctrine and Manners we may expect when the Prelate or his Priest is joyned to the King in Reformation 45. Two places of Scripture vindicated from the Prelates perverting of them and whereby himselfe is stung for being too busie about the Bee-hive 46 47. For what good Service the Prelates Priest medling with the Bee-hive is stung by the true Bees 48 49. The Prelates Church in England together with Rome wherin fallen from the ancient Catholick Faith in maintaining Doctrines of Devils And what the true Catholicke Faith i● 51. The Prelaticall Church in England how Antichristian and what Antichristianisme is 52 53 54 55 56. The Mystery of Iniquity in the Prelacy ibid. The place in John 1 John 2.22 vindicated against Jesuites and Prelates and thereby Prelates proved to be Antichrists in that they deny Jesus to be the Christ that is King Priest and Prophet distinctly proved 56 57 58 59. No Priest but Christ ever had power to forgive sins 58. The true Reformed Churches beyond the Seas vindicated to be true Churches of Christ against the Prelate 62. And Prelaticall Churches proved to be false Churches ibid. 16. Who have cause to cry out of persecution the Prelat's Jesuite Or his Seperatist 63. What Cause the Prelate gives of Separation from his Church which he saith is the Same with Rome 64. And wherein ibid. The Prelates Riddle 65. In how many paritculars these two Sisters are alike yea one and the same 64 66 67 68. And so how the Prelates Church in England being one and the same with that of Rome must needs be a false Church 69. How the Prelate overthroweth all the learned works of the Orthodox English Divines ibid. 17. The Prelates blasphemous putting a most notorirus lye upon Christ 70. What Interpretation of Scripture we may expect from Prelates whereof his Church consisteth 71. The Prelate selfe-condemned as a most notorious forcer and perverter of Scripture where ever he doth but touch it with his finger ibid. What need there is of the Prelates Oracle in setling the true sense of the 39. Artcles which under his Primacy have been declared doubtfull and of a double sense 72. What cause we have to expect an Index Expurgatorious from the Prelate to purge the writings of all our Oxthodox Divines against the Church of Rome ibid. 18. How the Prelate without his Prophecying doth by his practise hale in Atheisme and Irreligion 73 74. What we are still to understand when the Prelate names Truth c. 74. What he He calls an unworthy way of contending for Truth which we must contend for notwithstanding against such Adversaries 75. What is that Atheisme and Irreligion properly which the prelate nameth and meaneth 75. 19. The Prelates externall will-worship what it is a Great Witnesse of 76 77. The prelates swelling pride and conceit of His Will-worship 77 78. All Will-worship expresly forbidden in the Scripture It is no Service of God but of mans lust ibid. The prelates upright heart down right hypocrisie 79. The prelates notorious and bold perverting of Christs words to His own blind Devotion 78. How God is dishonoured by the prelates will-worship 79 80 The prelates Sincerity in Religion how it drives consciencious men from Communion with His English Church 81. The prelate how clearely he deales with His Majesty 82. What is with the Prelate Decent and what orderly Settlement in the worship of God 83 84 85. Sundry Innovations or rather Renovations under the primat ib. Of Ceremonies in Gods worship Of Naturall Morall and Religious Actions how they differ in point of Ceremony 87. Prelates Ceremoniall worship Hereticall 88. What Heresie is ibid. Christ the onely Master of Ceremonies in Gods service 88. How this is an Article of our Faith 8● Christ never imparted this His Prerogative or any part thereof to any Humane Power 90. The Apostles words for Deceny and Order 1 Cor. 14.40 cleared from Prelaticall perverters 90 91 92 93 94. Prelates Pretence for Antiquity of His Ceremonies absurd 94 95 96. Prelates Cerremonies will fit neither Time nor Place but as they are forced wherin the Prelate is too zealous and forward 97. What rubbes and tough knots the Prelate meets withall about His Ceremonies 98. And how He hath been crost since his Crucifying of His Three bitter men and why and how 99. The Prelates practise not so politick as Julians was 98. Even Mediocrity in Ceremonies is an Extreme 99. So as the very least overburthens the Church of Christ ibid. How the Prelate had need to fit His Ceremonies some for Sommer and some for Winter for overburthening His Priest 100. The Replyer requireth of the Prelate a just number of so many Ceremonies so as they may neither overburthen nor leave his Service naked 100 101. The Prelate like the Pharisees in binding burthens on others ib. How the Prelate needs many Ceremonies as Herbs to straw the way to the celebrating of the marriage betweene England and Rome ibid. How the Prelates Service is naked without his Ceremonies 1●2 Prelates pompous Service condemned by the Heathen 102 103 The Leviticall Pompe as a Type altogether abolished by Christ 105. Adam more glorious
smart of it though perhaps an ordinary Bee may smell it out yet I will not take upon me to divine it But if you will contend and offer violence to a whole Hive forcing the Bees beyond their nature though you be never so well armed Cap a pied from top to toe as with Sauls armour so as the Bees cannot reach you yet how shall you escape the sting of the great Master-Bee JESUS CHRIST who is able with one whoope to rayse an army of flies to plague the Aegyptian Tyrants and Taskmasters for their extreame violence offered to his poore Bees And never look that such Bees should ever brook your Priest as having learned by too much experience that he comes not but to kill and take the honey As Christ saith of the Thiefe or Vsurper that climbeth up into the Sheep-fold another way He cometh not but to steale kill and to destroy Againe I must crave a little more of your patience while I somewhat more thorowly Scan your Conjunction of the King and Priest so closse and inseparably together The King and the Priest or The King and the Prelate or The King and the Bishop according to a new Late Start up Proverbe or as you make it a new Maxime in the Politicks No Bishop no King Now for a ground whereon to pitch the Mathematicall Staffe of my ensuing Demonstration I must begge two Ait●mata or Demands First That ever a King is good this is such a principle as transcends the Demonstration of Art For He 〈◊〉 Minister of GOD to thee for Good Ergo Good The Second is That a Priest or Prelate as being out of the ranke of Gods Creation and Ordination is ever Bad. These two things granted as they may not be denyed I say It is not good that Good and Bad be joyned together Although as Scaliger saith Malum non est nisi in bono Evill is not but in good But the King and Priest thus linked together are like to two Planets in Conjunction the one as Astronomers tell us Benigne the other Malignant and during the Conjunction the Benigne Planet is not so forcible in its kindly influence as the Malignant is potent in hindering it and in sending forth his own more predominant Malignity not so easily qualified by the Benignity of the other And they say againe that some Planets are of such a temper as they are neither good nor bad but as they are in Conjunction with others if with a good Planet they are good if with a bad evill As we read of King Ioash who so long as good Iehoiada the High Priest lived raigned well but he being dead he by the bad Counsell of his Princes fell to Idolatry So an evill Planet being in Conjunction with an indifferent may cause it to doe hurt which in its owne nature is not much malignant Againe 't is observed of the Oake which for strength among all the Trees may be an Embleme of a King being all overgrown with the Ivie which for its many insinuations and windings every way may well resemble your Priest it thrives not the fewer leaves and branches it puts forth for shade and protection from a shower or storme or heat of Summer and litle fruit to feed the hungry for it is hide-bound so guirt in by the Ivie that it cannot prosper Yea such a Conjunction cannot be more fitly parallelled in my judgement then to the feet of that Image in Daniel the Head whereof was of gold the breast and armes of silver the belly and thighs of brasse his legges of iron his feet part of iron and part of clay The Image represented the Successive Raignes in the Babilonian Monarchy each worse then other till at last it came to ruine And it may be an Embleme of all Kingdomes and States which if they want the ancient Roman Lustration or Purgation every five yeares like some old Statutes of England for a Trienniall Visitation a certain thing which was wont to be called a Parliament or so will according to an old observation in the Politicks easily grow worse and worse As the Roman Poet observed in his time Aetas parentum pejor avis Tulit nos equiores mox daturos Progeniem vitiosiorem In English thus Our Fathers Age which they did passe Grew worse then our Grand-fathers was Our selves worse then our Parents be And our next race proves worse then we But we pitch to be silent in the rest of the Image upon the feet mixt of iron and clay the last legges as the Proverb which that Empire went upon Iron as Daniel interprets it signifies strength but Clay brittlenesse which intermeddled with the Iron addes no strength to it but onely makes it swell the bigger which swelling portends and causes ruine For the Iron relying on its mixture with the Clay and the Clay presuming to doe great things by being joyned and backed with the Iron here is the Portent In the Revelation we read of Kings giving their power to the Beast that is giving way to the Beast or to his limbs the Priests to exercise a power over them and their Kingdomes For which cause England was wont to be called the Popes Asse The ten hornes which thou sawest upon the Beast these shall hate the whore and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eate her flesh and burne her with fire For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will and to agree and give their Kingdome unto the Beast untill the words of God shal be fulfilled On this GOD and on his word will we wait Sure we are that the whore of Babylon with her Priests shall come down into the dust And all Gods people are admonished to come out of her least they partake of her sinnes and receive of her plagues So in due time when Gods word shall be fulfilled the Iron shall unmixe it selfe from the Clay that the one may be preserved and the other goe to his owne place to the earth whence it came and whe●eof it is But in the next place for what good end and purpose doe you linke your Priest with the King Because say you They more then any other are bound to looke to the Integrity of the Church in Doctrine and Manners Surely for the first the King we doe in all humility imbrace and acknowledge him as Gods vicegerent bound to doe that office for the true Church of Christ which Gods word hath injoyned and requires of him And that consists generally in ●his as he is Custos utriusque Tabulae the Keeper in trust of both the Tables of the Law he is to see ut currat Lex that Gods Law and Word hina treke that it may run have a free passage without impeachment that the Commandements of the Law be kept Sarta tecta safe and sound without diminishing much lesse demolishing any one of them that nothing be done either in Doctrine or Manners or in the
and their Successors the true Ministers of the Gospell who by their preaching declare who have their sinnes pardoned and who not So as your colouring over your usuall evasion of the Papists about their merits which they say are not absolutely meritorious of themselves but as being dipped and dyed in Christs blood whence they receive the tincture of merit But as the merit of Christ is altogether immanent in himselfe and not transient to us but onely by Imputation through faith and not by any infusion or inherencie as Papists teach So the power of Priestly Absolution is so proper and peculiar to the Person of Christ that it is not communicative or derivative to any Creature No not I say to the Leviticall Priests who otherwise were Types of Christ. They onely offered sacrifices for sinnes but as Types and which could never take away Sinnes as the Apostle speakes And their Office was to discerne and judge of the Leprosie and to pronounce a man cleane or uncleane according to those signes and markes which God himselfe gave Now Leprosie was an Embleme of Sinne. And as those Ministers of the Old Testament did with the Leprosie namely pronounce or declare it onely to be or not to be So the Ministers of the Gospell are to declare unto beleevers the pardon of sinnes by those signes and markes which God hath set in his Word and to impenitent persons condemnation except they beleeve and repent But for power of Absolving men from Sinnes as to Say Thy Sins are forgiven thee that 's Christs voyce alone Never any of the Apostles used this voyce to any Thy Sins are forgiven thee but as Peter said to those that were pricked in their hearts and asked Men and Bretheren what shall we doe Repent saith he and be baptised every one of you in the Name of Iesus Christ for the Remission of Sins But to Say I absolve thee from thy Sins or Thy Sins are forgiven thee is onely his who can give Repentance and Faith These two Prerogatives are inseperable in Christ as Peter sheweth Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour for to give Repentance to Israel and forgivenesse of Sinnes and we are witnesses of these things Saith he Now if you can prove that Christ hath made you Such Princes and Saviours as to give you a power which Symon Magus would have bought with his money to give Repentance to any man then I will without any more adoe confesse that you have also a power to forgive Sins Otherwise not till then by your assumed and usurped Priesthood and presumptuous yea blasphemous forgiving of Sins I Absolve thee you deny Iesus to be the Christ the onely Christ to wit the onely Priest who onely hath merit and power as to give Repentance so remission of Sins to whom he will And thus as you take upon you to be a Priest both by your profession and practise you are an Antichrist For who is a lyer but he that denyeth Iesus to be the Christ He is Antichrist Saith the Apostle Iohn Secondly neither were it any great difficulty to prove that you Prelates and that according to your owne Doctrine in many places of your Book do deny Iesus to be the Christ to wit the onely Prophet of his Church For you allow no beliefe that the Scripture is the voyce of Christ the Prophet except the voyce and Tradition of the present Church doe first usher it in And this Church must alwayes be meant of a Prelaticall Church No question of that And for Exposition and Sense of Scripture you deny that the Scripture it selfe and of it selfe hath sufficient light as at after we shall see at large and therefore you referre us either to the Exposition of the Primitive Church or the Decisions of Generall Councels for the right Sense of the Scripture Thus you doe akurōsa as Christ saith or make voyd and of no authority the voyce of Christ by your Tradition Nay you Say also That if a Generall Councel should Conclude and Decree an Errour yet all men ought to yeeld obedience at least externall thereunto till another Generall Councel equall to that shall reverse and correct it And by the way what if it shall make it worse or adde more Errours to it But thus doe you not deny Christ to be the onely Prophet of his Church of whom God Saith Heare Him Him onely His Word onely His Voyce onely when you do not take his Word to be light enough and to be sufficient to interpret it selfe but that you must have recourse to Generall Councels consisting of Prelates as your Oracles to decide all doubts and controversies of Faith Doe you not thus attribute a greater light to men then to the voyce of Christ GOD Saith of Christ that Prophet Heare him in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you but you say In all doubts and controversies of faith heare what a Generall Councel Saith yea though it determine Errours yet all men are bound to yeeld obedience thereunto Thus the expresse voyce and cleare word of Christ that Prophet must depend upon Men and those an Assembly of Prelates or Priests which Christ never ordained in his Church and not men upon It. And so in this respect also denying Christ to be the onely All sufficient Prophet to instruct and establish his Church in all Truth while you deny his word to be Autópistos and Autàrkes of selfe-Credit of it selfe to be beleeved and selfe-sufficient to shew and interpret it selfe you prove your selfe an Antichrist For who is a lyer but he that denyeth that Iesus is the Christ He is Antichrist Your Grace therefore is an Antichrist But I come to the third Instance to which I confesse I thought to have confined my selfe and not to have touched the other two in this place though they be no lesse proper then this which is That you Prelates both by Profession and Practise as you are Prelates doe deny Iesus to be the Christ in that you deny him to be the onely Lord and King of his Church For what is for Christ to be the King of and over and in his Church but as to exercise his Almighty power and Fatherly care and Spouse-like love in protecting and preserving his Church from all evills in comforting her in the midst of afflictions in supplying her with all necessary Graces and Blessings and in vindicating the cause of his People against all their Persecuters and Oppressors So also in bearing a Speciall Kingly Rule in and over their Soules and Consciences in all things concerning Faith in the Worship and Service of God So as the people of God doe and ought to acknowledge Christ herein their onely King and not to suffer their consciences to be captivated and insnared by any ordinance of Man whatsoever in point of faith and ceremonies in Gods service injoyning a necessary conformity thereunto 'T is Christs Prerogative alone in
be expected there Can or will the Lord Iesus Christ long suffer such things And what doth England now attempt The recovery of Scotland First ô England be thou thy selfe reconciled to God humble thy selfe for thy fearefull Apostacie revoke and call in all thy ungodly Edicts against Christ and his Word reforme all thy oppressions of Gods People and thine owne maintain not still open warre against the Spirituall Kingdome of Iesus Christ least he destroy thy temporall looke up to God as highly offended with thee and who hath for the present rent a whole Kingdome from thee who hast rent thy selfe from his Kingly Dominion over thee Be no longer rebellious against God stand not upon the confidence of thine own conceited Prudence and Power which unlesse thou hast God on thy side shal be but a snare unto thee and shall stand thee in no stead at thy need except thou dost repent and turn to God unfainedly and refraine thy violent courses and reform all My zeale hath carryed me thus farre for my God and for my King and for my Countrey and for all the People of God and the King in all his Kingdomes my dayly prayer being for Truth and Peace as the Prophet Saith Love the Truth and Peace Truth is both the Mother and Nurse of Peace But to proceed you say No externall action in the world can be uniforme without some Ceremony If you speak of Naturall Actictions nature it selfe doth teach a fit manner in doing of them If of Morall or Civill actions we commonly use such Ceremonies as either humane Lawes Customes or a mans owne reason hath brought in use But if you Speake of Religious actions such as are conversant about the worship of God That 's quite of another nature for point of Ceremony Onely thus farre it holds proportion with the other that as every naturall action hath for its manner of performance and carriage certaine Principles of Nature to guide a Man in the decent and orderly doing of it and as every Civil and Morall action hath for its manner of the decent carriage of it some Rule either intrinsecall within a man and in his own choyce and power or extrinsecall and without him according either to Custome or humane Law even so the externall manner of performing Gods worship hath for its Sole Principle and Rule the will of God himselfe whose service it is and over which he is the Sole Lord whose will for his whole service both internall and externall he hath clearely expressed in his word the holy Scripture And this is a principle which every man that seeth not but by the Spectacles of Natures Light assenteth unto as a firme and universall truth namely That every Master is so to be served as himselfe commandeth And if a Servant presume to serve his Master as himselfe listeth and not as his Master commandeth shall have small thanks for his labour How much more and beyond all comparison is God to be served of us not as we fancie but as himselfe hath expresly commanded in his word And this is a safe obedience wherein a man observing his Rule cannot erre Whereas obedience to Mans command is onely so farre good as the commandement it selfe is good and lawfull But Gods Word and Commandement being every way perfect and given us with a strict charge and under a most severe penalty even a Curse to those that shall either adde to it or detract from it who but Children of the curse will presume to invent what manner of externall service of God his own proud fancie liketh best Such service cannot be called the service of God as wherewith he is served and pleased but the service of Man wherein he pleaseth himselfe Yea when a man hath pleased his own fancie in the invention of this or that Ceremony in religious worship and not content herewith doth withall impose and injoyne it to be of necessity observed of all so as their Conscience is now by humane Law captivated thereunto this service of God becomes Hereticall For what is Heresie in the common use among Divines but an obstinate holding and maintaining of an errour in faith which mans pride hath made choyce of But not onely presumtuously to elect and obstinately and pertinaciously to maintain but to make a Law to enforce others to conform to any such errour in faith this is the highest degree of Heresie that can be And that the inventing holding and imposing of such Ceremonies in Gods worship is an errour in faith and so hereticall is cleare For it is a point and Article of Christian faith to bebeleeve that Christ is the onely Lord and King of his Church and therfore in the Creed we say And in Iesus Christ his onely Sonne our Lord. To whom then doth the power of ordaining Ceremonies in Gods holy service appertaine but to the King or Master of this service This power is Christs Prerogative in his Church This is Christs Throne wherein he sitteth raigneth and ruleth in and over the Soules and Consciences of his people as before is touched He is the onely Teletarkes or Master of ordaining Ceremonies in Gods house or family as the learned Budaeus interprets that word out of Dionisius Areopageta so as Teletarkía which signifies a Prerogative and Power in GOD incommunicable to ordaine Ceremonies in his worship is used for the Soveraigne Deity or Godhead and so for the Holy Trinity And Christ hath ever from the beginning reserved this power intire and peculiar to himselfe even as his glory not imparting it to any earthly power not to his Church not to his Prophets and Apostles not to the Kings of Israel under the Law nor to the Fathers before the Law For before the giveing of the Law in Mount Sina GOD taught his Church the use of Sacrifices and Altars and other Rites with the difference of Meates cleane and uncleane At the giving of the Law GOD shewed Moses a pattern for the Tabernacle and all things thereunto belonging with a Charge to doe all things according to the Pattern which he had seen Not the least Ceremony no not a pin about the Tabernacle was left in Moses power or choyce to make of his own head So afterward when the Temple was to be built David received the pattern thereof and of all things appertaining to the whole service thereof from God in writing which David delivering to his Son Salomon appointed of God to build the Temple Said All this the Lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me even all the worke of this Pattern even the Pattern of all that he had by the Spirit So as though David was a King and a Prophet and that of singular eminency a man according to Gods own heart and aboundantly indued with the holy Spirit of God and the Sweet Psalmist of Israel and though King Salomon was indued with admirable and incomparable wisedome yet the Lord
shall meet with many passages of good note yet he may observe how farre wide he is of the scope and meaning of the Psalmes which he handleth all along He preached indeed every day as Calvin did at Geneva besides all his other weighty imployments but what a disparity there is between their expositions I referre to the judgement of K. Iames who commended Calvins Commentaries above all those of the Ancients So for the Greek Church as Aug. for the Latine that golden mouthed Chrisostome according to his Name the best preacher in his time though many of his expositions were good yet when he came to his tò u'thikòn his morall or application though in it selfe it was very good yet for the most part no way pertinent to his text he handled but he would sometimes make his use against covetousnesse somtimes against pride or some other sinne or to exhort to some morall vertue or other but I say without any coherence to his text for the most part And for the most of those Antients what was the common Theame of their preaching but morality delighting rather to contemplate in a solitary life then to practise such preaching as might win soules How few of them did preach the Doctrine of Iustification by Faith in Christ. In somuch as Bernard who lived many hundred yeares after those ancients and in those times wherein he noted Antichrist to be come which he plainly poynted out to be the Pope did preach more soundly of this doctrine of Iustification by Faith onely then all those Fathers had done if we may judge of their preaching by their writings They spent themselves more in preaching for good works Then to set forth the faith in Christ though some flashes they had here and there And whether this be not one reason why you so commend the Fathers preaching because they were so much for good works and so little for faith I know not Whereas the moderne Divines of the Reformed Churches are most singular and excellent in seting forth the Mystery of faith and that doctrine of Iustification thereby therein exalting Gods grace and excluding mans merits though not negligent in exhorting to good works as the fruits of faith Those Doctrines of Grace and faith being the main substance of the Gospell and the true practising of Iesus Christ besides which there is no true preaching Admirable they are also in seting forth the nature of sinne to bring man out of himselfe and to plant him into Christ. And in a word have so set forth the whole body of Divinity as the Fathers writings to theirs are in comparison in respect of sound Divinity but as a barren Field to a fruitfull well planted and well watered Garden And great reason there is for this The Fathers had to deale with some Hereticks as with Arius whose Mal was Athanasius and with Pelagius knockt down by Augustine and others but they knew not as yet the Mistery of iniquity which in these latter times seeking to overtop the Gospell and to overthrow the Doctrine and Kingdome of Christ hath given occasion not onely of a reformation in a seperation from that Whore of Babylon but to many Worthies whom God hath raysed up in these last times to bestirre themselves and to study Christ his Military Discipline and spirituall warfare against the Beast and his Crew and to be expert in maintaining Christs Cause with weapons both offensive and defensive So as by this occasion Gods Grace working with it this last Century hath produced more excellent sound and learned Divines and famous preachers then I may say truly though not without envie have been ever since the Apostles times The Name of our God and of our Lord Iesus Christ who by this meanes hath Tryumphed over Antichrist be praysed and glorified for evermore These have been and are Christs Triarian band fighting against Antichrists power with the sword of the Spirit in their lippes their pike their pen in their hand and fighting on their knees by Prayre and have so confounded Antichrist by the dint of their Sword and Pike the word of God that he hath no meanes left him but by his legates à latere to negotiate his cause with Kings and Princes of the earth to incite them against the precise party by taking their weapon Gods word and the preaching thereof from them leaving them nothing but their bare knees to plead their Cause upon even Prayers and Teares these which the powers on earth may cause but never deprive them of And how farre you have been a stickler and instigator in this kind I appeale to your practises and to this your Book sufficient and competent witnesses against you But to return to your Fathers you say that they for all their preaching so farre beyond others yet no one of them durst think himselfe infallible much lesse that whatsoever he preached was the word of God 'T is true they had been no wise Fathers but Children rather yea proud and foolish Men if they had thought themselves to be infallible which is proper to God alone But whatsoever they preached out of Gods word that they had good evidence it was according to the Scripture why should they not not onely thinke but be assured that being the truth it was infallible as being the substance of Gods word which they preached And so all other preachers Lastly where you say It may be observed that no men are more apt to say that all the Fathers were but men and might erre then they that thinke their own preachings were infallible And what say you I pray you of your antient Fathers Were they any others but m●n And might they not erre But you are not perhaps so apt to say They were but men and might erre You are willing to entertain and retaine a higher opinion of them then so Or at least you are not so apt to say so of them as they then whom none are more apt to say The Fathers were but men and might erre Sure if there were cause enough and urgent too so to say as when it concernes the glory of God and the truth it selfe he that is aptest to say so is the most to be commended And now let us here a little inquire who these men be that are so apt to say thus of the ancient Fathers and for what cause That they were but men and might erre Why who should they be but the precise party of the reformed Churches as all the worthy reverend pious religious learned and judicious Divines both beyond the Seas and on this side who undertaking to defend the truth of Christ against Antichrist and their Adversaries objecting and pressing so much the authority of the antient Fathers in such things wherein they could not be otherwise excused but that they did a'n●ropopathein speake as men who are not in all things infallible what could they in such a case answere otherwise But that those Fathers were but men and might erre Nor
the making of it That is That it is ill very ill done of those who ever they be Papists or Protestants that give just cause to continue a seperation P. Here you speake plain Papists or Protestants and why not then Protestants as well as Papists that did very ill in making the seperation as they doe ill in continuing of it But yet your meaning here may possibly be that as it was ill done of the Roman party to give the first cause of the separation so it were no lesse ill done to continue the same cause to the continuing of the Schisme You may doe well to perswade Rome to lay down all her Corruptions which the Protestants have and doe protest against her that so if the Schisme be any long●r continued it may then appeare to be long of the Protestants ●ut if Rome be obstinate and incorrigible in her errors you have no reason to say it is ill done on the Protestant party to continue the Schisme But it may be perhaps ill done of the Protestant Church of England notwithstanding to continue the Schisme for as it may be well done of you to sowder it againe And therfore while the case is thus in agitation and Rome maks no more hast to meet you the multitude of her impedimenta bagge and baggage and all kind of Trumpery retaining her peace and which in no sort she will part withall and so will not stirre a foot over Tiber what 's wanting on her part you will supply with all expedition dressing up her sister the Church of England in Romes fashion unto such a conformity and symphony as promiseth a making up of the ma●ch with all faults on both sides sooner perhaps then Rome could hope for L. ibid. The Kings and the Church of England had no reason to admit of a publick Dispute with the English Romish Clergy till they should be able to shew it under the Seale or Powers of Rome That that Church will submit to a third who may be an Indifferent Iudge between us and them or to such a Generall Councel as is after mentioned P. First the English Romish Clergie are by the Laws of England Traitors and therfore to be disputed withall at Tiburne So as if you put them to shew their warrant to dispute with you under Romes seale they will require of you perhaps to shew them under Englands seale an abrogation of the Laws against them And you tell us before that the Church of England knows well that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Nor will the Powers of Rome permit their Religion to be disputed on And whom will you chuse to dispute with them some peaceable men that will not be apt to fall out with the Jesuites your Lordship being Moderator But you know Rome denyes the Rule of Faith the Scripture And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum Who shall else be the Umpier Who the Third Who the Indifferent Iudge Could both the Churches joyntly chuse a more Indifferent Iudge then your selfe Sure Rome her selfe would nominate you before Bellarmine himselfe if he were living A Generall Councel indeed of Romish English and other Prelates might do much so you should be sure to exclude all the Protestant Reformed Churches for wranglers as Franciscus à S. Clara well adviseth And then if a Generall Councel should reconcile and compose all differences though never so erroniously yet the Error must stand till another Generall Councel shall reverse it as you tell us at after But you adde L. p. ibid. and 146. And this is an honest and I think a full Answer And without this all Disputation must end in a clamour and therfore the more publick the worse because as the Clamour is the greater so perhaps wil be the Schisme too P Nay my Lord if you stand upon termes of honesty indeed you should have nominated the Scripture for the onely sufficient and upright Iudge between you This had been honest in one that professeth but the name onely of a Protestant But for that you told us enough before whereby we understand that this point of honesty is no part of your meaning But if your Answere were not in this respect honest I must tell you neither was it full but an empty and frivolous Answere To dispute of Divinity or Religion where Scripture is not the onely Iudge is as to judge of gold by the colour without the touchstone And so he that could shew the best colour for his matter by a false light should carry it away And I may say truely without the Scripture be Iudge your disputation must needs end in a clamour where the voyce of God is of no authority But then also if Scripture should be the Iudge you might well say The more publicke the worse For it is such a light as would discover all your fallacies and so raysing a clamour of the publicke Audience when they should observe such collusion between the English Clergie and the English Romists it might breed such a detestation against all Reconciliation with Rome as would make the rent the wider and so all your labour should be in vaine And then you might use the Proverbe As good never a whit as never the better L. p. 148. That there are errorr in Doctrine and some of them such as most manifestly indanger salvation in the Church of Rome i● evident to them that will not shut their eyes P. To indanger Salvation is much and for you to say so much is much too and you saying so much we need not make much doubt of the truth of that you say in this Case And yet in saying so much you speake not all truth The truth is as we have proved and shall yet further That Romes Errors in Doctrine are damnable and cannot consist with salvation as is evident to those whose eyes are truly opened L. ibid. A. C. himselfe confesses that error in Doctrine of the Faith is a just cause of seperation so just as that no cause is just but that Now had I leasure to descend into particulars or will to make the rent in the Church wider 't is no hard matter to prove that the Church of Rome hath erred in the Doctrine of Faith and dangerously too And I doubt I shall afterwards descend to particulars A. C. his importunity forcing me to it P. By A. C. his canfession then the Protestants are able to justifie their seperation abundantly As for your Lordship you are so charitably and peaceably affected that you are loth upon any termes though it concerne the salvation of mens soules in such a case to speake the truth home to make the rent wider till by your Adversaries importunity I would say A. C. you be forced to it You have too tender a heart to be a Surgion when for feare least the opening of the wound make it wider you suffer it to fester inwardly It were well if you were halfe so tender hearted to the
●enders helps in Governments And all this according to the expresse Law of Christ our King recorded in the Scripture as being the most perfect pattern of the Government of his Church for every particular Congregation to be regulated and ordered by So as in truth those Congregations that are thus governed are the onely true Churches of Christ as wherein himselfe his spirit his word doe govern both Minister and people whereas on the other side all Prelaticall Churches are false and Antichristian as wherein not Christ and his spirit and his word do beare rule but Antichristian men by the pride of their spirit and by their Canons doe altogether beare sway thrusting Christ out of his Throne despising his word and puting a yoake of bondage over the necks both of Ministers and people To conclude this point because you are of such a beliefe and so confidently tell us and peremptorily avouch that Christ thought it fitter to govern his Church by Diverse then by One Vice-Roy besides what is already sayd I will a little more presse and present before you Christs own words at full which I doe to put you out of all such beliefe or so much as any such conceit that Christ had ever any such thought Math. 20. upon occasion of those two at that time ambitious bretheren sent to Christ by their Mother to be chiefe about him in his Kingdome Christ first tells them Ye know not what ye aske Then calling his Disciples to him he saith thus unto them Ye know that the Princes of the Gentiles exercise Dominion over them and they that are great exercise authority upon them But it shall not be so among you but wh●so ever wil be great among you let him be your Minister c. Which the Euangelist Luke expresseth thus The Kings of the Gentiles exercise Lordship over them and they that exercise Authority upon them are called Euergétai Benefactors But ye shall not be so Ye Who Not the Apostles of Christ not the Ministers of Christ in succeding ages Not so How Ye shall not exercise Dominion Lordship Authority one over another you shall not be called Benefactors Patrons Lords Gratious Lords Honourable your Grace your Honour c. Why so For such are the Kings of the Gentiles who exercise Dominion over them and are called Benefactors You shall not be as they in exercising any Authority or Jurisdiction one over another Nor shall ye be called Euerg●t●i My Good lord My Benefactor My Patron My lords Grace or My Gratious lord and the like Thus under those words Christ cha●geth his Apostles not to affect not to be ambitious of not to exercise Superiority or Prelacy Iurisdiction and Authority one over another or over Christs Kingdome his Church and 〈◊〉 as Peter saith Not as Lords over Gods heritage where the Apostle useth the same word that Christ his Master used M● 〈◊〉 katakuriéuontes ton k●úron not exercising Dominion or 〈…〉 God 's Inheritance or if you will over his Clergy though they be not his onely Inheritance but his people are no 〈…〉 unto him and are kleros Gods lot But now for Christs 〈◊〉 do you not think that Christ spake as he thought and 〈◊〉 as he spake Or can you beleeve any other And do not his 〈◊〉 to his Apostles in them reach to all his Ministers 〈…〉 succeed them in future ages If you say you are the 〈◊〉 onely successors why are you then l●rds ov●r Go●s 〈…〉 why do you exercise ●u●hority and Dominion over his 〈◊〉 and peop●e as Heathen Kings doe over then people 〈…〉 expresly forbid to his Apostles and to all their Successors But you shew your selves to be none of Christs Disciples and so none of his Apostles successors for you obey not Christs word as the Apostles did What do you answere then to Christs words Or what interpretation can you devise to avoyd them You will answere perhaps with Bellarmine that Christ forbad his Apostles to be like the Heathen Princes in exercising a temporall Government or Authority one over another This is indeed all the evasion Bellarmine hath But how vain Let 's bring it to the Touch. How shall it be tryed What saith Christ Humeis dè ouk outos you shall not be so Now if you be not so all is well you may prove Apostolicall men But if you prove to be like the Heathen Princes in exercising Lordship over the people under your Government and in exercising Authority over them what can you say for your selves why you should not be proclaimed for proud Contemners of Christs word and for usurping Tyrants over his peopl and so for a rebellious Faction and Confederacy against Christs Kingdome Let 's therfore draw our Parallell Those Heathen Powers were called Princes so you call your selves they were Kings and so were Gods Vice-gerents you call your selves Vice-Roys of Christ they were called Benefactors though they never did good so you are styled My lords Grace and when in your Court you condemn poore innocents yet they must confesse the justice and favour of your Court They were called Fathers of their Countrey so you Right Reverend Fatheres Most Reverend Father your Grace c. They were lords so you yea you are temporall lords and so sit in Parliament though styled spirituall they exercised lordship dominion Authority over the people and that with tyranny and without Law so do you And in a word Is not your Pompe and state your Power and Greatnesse your Palaces and Courts your Traine and Attendants your Fasces and Lictors to wit your Pursuivants and Apparitors your Kinglike Attire in Purple and Scarlet and fine lynen soft rayment of silkes and sattens your Tables overflowing with delicacies of viands and wines in all abundance and variety and what not like that of Kings Thus doe you not beare the Image of the Beast the Dragon the Heathen Emperour who gave power to that other Beast the Pope who in himselfe erected the Image of the first Beast from top to toe namely the Imperiall state and magnificence being fully expressed and limmed out in the Papall though but in somwhat a lower degree in your Episcopall Pontificiall state As Pope Boniface 8. in the first day of his Jubilee came forth pompously arayed in all his Pontificalibus and the next day in the Imperiall Ropes with two Swords caried before him And a lively Image of this is my Lord Bishop a mixt Creature partly temporall and partly spirituall spirituall in name onely and temporall in his whole outward state as the Kings and Princes of the Gentiles were as the Crea●ure called Amphibius that lives now in the water and now on the Land and yet is neither good Fish nor Flesh. Now tell us my Lord whose Image you beare Christs or Caesars yea in all things you resemble Caesar but not many one thing the Lord Iesus Christ. I say not in one thing Shew any one thing wherein you instate either Christ o● his Apostles after his
Primitive Church and Generall Councels is the Iudge of Controversies whereunto you professe to submit in all humility Thus these 12 Conclusions be as the 12 Articles of your Faith But now let 's a little examine what Truth or Force there is in all these I confesse some of them are somwhat coincident and like Brookes fall one into another but all have their Confluence into your Generall Councel as one maine Ocean But we will take a say of each as they run along For the first and so the rest which have any generall concurrence with it I deny that a Generall Councel is a sufficient and competent Iudge of Controversies in matters of Faith My Reasons are these First Because Generall Councels consisting of Prelates and more especially in these latter times are so much the unabler to judge of the sense of Scripture where 't is deep or doubtfull As Nicolaus de Clemangus in his Tract De Concilus Generalibus discourseth very largely and pregnantly of this very Circumstance shewing that Prelates are none of those to whom God doth reveale the mysteries of his will in his Word which are altogether spirituall but Prelates are carnall proud ambitious covetous minding the things of the world His whole Discourse is worth the Reading And Arelatensis Arch-Bishop of Arles in France in the Councel of Basil said that they had no zeale nor love nor knowledge of the Truth but every one would be of his Kings Religion and was ready to say as his King would have him and that the poore Priests were those by whom the Truth was upholden And not to goe farre from home If a Generall Councel were assembl●d of such Prelates as you are who have no savour of and lesse favour to the Truth having bewrayd in this your Book besides your usuall practises how contrary your spirit is to Christs spirit and wisdome Certainly asmuch as in you were you would bring utter confusion upon the world in seting up and establishing your Babilonish Faith and Religion And I have noted before how the poore in spirit such as feare the Lord are those Eagles Christ speaks of whose eyes are sharpest to pierce into the Mysteries of the Scriptures as having Gods holy Spirit to guide them into all Truth Heare what the wiseman saith The rich man is wise in his own conceit but the poore that hath understanding searcheth him out I leave it to your Application And Christ rejoycing in Spirit saith I thanke thee ô Father Lord of heaven and earth that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes even so Father for it seemed good in thy sight Againe Prelates especially such as your selfe are taken up with State-matters and all of them generally with their worldly affaires and great Revenues so as they have little leasure so much as to thinke of Divine matters or to care for the state of mens soules or to seek to advance Christs Kingdome as being a'pellotriomenoi tes politeías tou Israèl as the Apostle speakes Aliens from the Common-wealth of Israel Yea even those that have good learning and judgement in Divinity which they had before they were Prelates after they come once to be Prelates they are so choked with the world and so over-awed with the servile feare of man that they dare doe nothing for the Truth especially in a time wherein it is openly opposed and oppressed but are willing to sleep in a whole skin and to let Religion and Faith sinke or swimme so they may injoy their Lordships and fill their Coffers Againe suppose a Generall Councel of Prelates were called for the purpose to judge and determine of the Controvesie about the Calling of Prelates whether it be Iure divino by Divine Authority or no as it was in Question and agitation in the Councel of Trent would not such a Councel trow you be Partiall in their own Cause and Define with one voyce That Prelates are an Order and of a Calling Jure divino and that Christ thought it fittest to governe his Church by such visible Iudges and Vice-roys Or if the Controversie were whether the Church alwayes collective in the Prelates have power to ordaine Ceremonies in Gods service to the Obedience and conformity whereof all mens Consciences are bound by which Imposition Gods people come to loose that liberty which Christ hath purchased for them and Christ should lose his Royall soveraignty as King in his Church as before is shewed it is not easie to Divine what the Difinition of such a Councel would be Or is there any Question to be made but that without any more adoe they would Order Determine Define and Conclude that Prelates the Church Collective have power to ordaine what Ceremonies they please in the worship and service of God which shall bind all mens Consciences to the necessary obedience and observation therof Would they herein have any respect to Christian liberty or Christs Prerogative Would they not with the Scribes and Pharisees and High Priests in their Councel condemn Christ for his Title of King of the Iews And because you are so much for a Generall Councel as Iudge in Controversies What say you to the first Generall Councel of Nice wherein there were above 300 Prelates as I remember Had they not all consented to the making of a Decree for the establishing of a Doctrine of Devils to wit forbidding Marriage to all Ecclesiasticall Persons had not one man Paphnutius and he an unmarried man too stood up and withstood such a Decree shewing by many Reasons and Arguments from Scripture and otherwise how wicked and cruel such a Decree were So early began the Mystery of Iniquity to bud forth and that in the most Ancients and in the very Prime or first Generall Councel wherein these Fathers the Prelates were so piously zealous though ignorantly to lay the foundation of a generall Aposticie from the Faith in establishing such a Doctrine of Devils as the Apostle calls it of which suffciently before Yet by your Doctrine If that Generall Councel of so many Prelates had determined it and ratified it by Decree all Priests then were bound to obedience untill another Generall Councell equall to that should reverse it which should have been long enough when every Age grew successively worse then other And thus in the very first and best Generall Councel after the Apostles a Doctrine of Devils should have been ratified and therein an Apostacie from the Faith and all men must have yeelded obedience at least externall enough to keep all your Priests from Marriage and so all Prelates and Priests should so quickly have proved a Generation of Apostates from the Faith Againe if you have a Generall Councel you must not according to the Councel of Frier Franciscus à S. Clara admit of any Puritans or the precise Party of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas no not such as you call Puritan Bishops For you see
what Of no lesse then Heresie and Schisme and other sinne too living and dying in the Roman faith Nay if there be but perill though great perill these pregnant Wits have wayes and wiles enough to avoyd all such perills and that by the cleane strength of their Art of equivocation wherein they are become the most expert Masters in the world Except they have forgotten it it is so long agoe since our Judges were wont to put them shrewdly to it as to confesse whether they were Priests or no which confession then was as good as to be hangd And you say elsewhere such can make a short cut to heaven when they lye a dying saying They renounce all their own merits whither their many bad or their few Good merits is not known and rely onely upon Christs merits for salvation As your good Brother Stephen Gardiner did at his death as before But when they dye in so good a mood though they may seem as Gardiner seemed to dye in the faith yet in charity they do not while they leave not the same gappe open for the people by which themselves get through concealing Iustification by Faith from the silly vulgar In which desperate case had not your Lordships charity put in to helpe at a dead lift to teach them a blind way to heaven which scarce any Jesuites before you ever knew What had become of them But alas As you delude those silly ignorants by telling them such a way leads to heaven which will carry them straight to hell so on the other side you doe but dally with A. C. and his fellows in telling them they are in perill onely when they are in the very precipice of perdition But if you intended to be their Ghostly Father indeed you should have told them plainly Their Religion is Idolatry Heresie Schisme Apostacie Antichristianisme Infidelity and all manner of In●quity and Impiety so as to live and dye therein is inevitable damnation to all Papists whatsoever but double damnation to those that know it For as Christ saith That servant which knew his Lords will and prepared not himselfe neither did according to his will shal be beaten with many stripes But he that knew not and did commit things worthy of stripes shal be beaten with few stripes But what should a man speake to the deafe Adder that stoppes her eare and will not hearken to the voyce of Charmers charming never so wisely I will follow my Lords Councel Let them alone They be blind leaders of the blind and if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into the pit And as he saith to the Pharisees Fill ye up the measure of your Fathers But how come you to say Ther 's danger of Schisme living and dying in the Roman faith What Can a man be a Schismaticke being a Romanist Then is not the Church of Rome her selfe a Schismatick And so the Church of England all one Church And so your Catholicke Church of which you and Rome are all Schismaticks Look to it But I may not leap over that which you have stumbled upon namely Romes Tyranny to boot And it were well if such Tyranny were confined to Rome saving that all Tyranny is such as it will not be confined to any place within any bounds You say that the Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same Church Certainly then this One Church what ever you pretend of the Catholick Church is of such a constitution as whose very foundation is Tyranny because Hierarchicall As Pope Hadoian 4. an English man lying extreme sick said That there was no life more wicked then the Popes whose Popedome was founded in blood and is maintained with blood wherein he is Romulus his successor who in laying the first foundation of Rome slew his brother Remus And wherein doth the Tyranny of your Popedome in the Church of England come short of the Popes saving that he hath a more powerfull Principality then you have Have not you in your hand like that Roman Iupiter the Pope your thunderbol● of Excommunication to blast and cast out of the Church whom you please or those who do not please you Do not the Censures of your High Commission like the Popes Court of Inquisit●●n extend to the spoyling of good Ministers and Christians of all liberty and livelyhood You will say You use no fagots as Rome doth 'T is true 't is not yet come to that But whe●'s the default You onely want a Law But in the mean time you want not your devises armed both with your own power and borrowed of others to afflict men worse then with death as before is shewed in the forenamed examples And therfore from all such Tyranny both English and Romish the Lord deliver us L. p. 299. I do indeed for my part leaving other men free to their own judgement acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church But so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they beleeve the Creed and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the grosse superstitions of the Romish Church P. Now you speake a little more plaine then before But how do you leave other men free to their own judgement when for not being of your judgement in this point you cens●re them of stiffenesse and churlishnesse and want of Charity And yet you your selfe say that there is no possibility of Salvation for Romanists as they are Romanists So as your judgement is That Romanists as they are Romanists have no possibility of Salvation Ergo no Papist as a Papist living and dying in the faith and Religion of Popery can possibly be saved And just so say those Protestants whom you Censure for stiffe churlish and uncharitable Onely you qualifie it with this Condition If they wittingly and knowingly associate themselves to the grosse Superstition of the Romish Church so as still you save harmlesse your silly ignorant Papists that know nothing at all whether they doe and beleeve right or wrong And you distinguish That as Romanists they cannot be saved but as Christians beleeving the Creed and holding the foundation Christ. But we told you before that your silly ignorant Papists do not so much as understand or know the very letter of the Creed how much lesse beleeve it If they can mumble over their Creed as many a blind Priest doth his M●sse 't is in a strange tongue and they say it for one of their blind and superstitious Prayers as they doe their Ave Marie So that way what hope or possibility can they have of salv●tion And for holding the foundation Christ to that we have before sufficiently proved the Contrary But say you they are Christians So you say they are Romanists too As one telling the Emperour Sigismund of Iulianus the Cardinal speaking somthing in his Commendation he