Selected quad for the lemma: power_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	king_n	parliament_n	writ_n	2,706	5	9.7417	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80251	The Commons dis-deceiver: touching their deceitfull delatory evasions of a desired speedy treaty with the King; the onely expedient for a wished and happy peace in the kingdome. Containing 1. Answers to the reasons of the Commons, which they gave the Lords (at a conference July 25. 1648.) against a treaty. 2. Reasons why the Commons, rather then the Lords, are against a treaty. 3. Reasons to shew that it is safer and better, even for the Commons, to adventure on a treaty, then to hazard a new warre.		1648 (1648)	Wing C5574; Thomason E457_3; ESTC R204960	11,269	15

honour held by the power and continuance of this Parliament either in Offices sequestred Estates Lands of King Queen Prince or Church or in Pentions Salaries keeping of Parks Forrests or the like insomuch that the words of the Prophet are here verified Micha 3.11 The heads thereof judge for reward and the Priests thereof teach for hire and the Prophets thereof divine for money Ob. But some happily will say if these cases debarre the Commons to be the Judges in this case then we must leave all to the King or who else shall be the Judge Resp I answer that the right power of judging is knowne and discerned by the Commission that grants and directs that power and the Commission as it were in this case must be the Writ as it 's called of Summons to the Parliament and when the Writ of calling the Commons is ad consentiendum faciendum to assent and doe the Writ as Commission to the Lords is ad tractandum impertiendum consilium and with the King ad judicandum de arduis negotiis c. Whence I conceive I may rightly inferre that the Lords or especially the Lords rather then the Commons should be Judges in this case and if their judgement may be heard then a Treaty without sending the Propositions should be had Again if it be required that Judges should be free from partiality to be led by affection or interest then I conceive that though some of the Lords may be somwhat tainted here with yet they are not so much infected or not so many and so deeply as these of the Commons are If I should grant that in our cases or at other times the Commons in such or the like case might Judge as being the Representees of the People in England yet if it appeare that these Representees have deceived the generall trust and have acted either to their own private or wicked publike-ends why may not the people recall their grant and resume their own Power to Judge add that the Cōmons have deceived their trust is apparent by their pointblank voting against and crossing the Petitions of London other Counties and the hearty desire of the whole Kingdome for a Treaty Ob. But you will aske if this power of judging what is fit to be done in this point of Treaty bee taken from the Commons then who shall judge for the People Resp And I aske who shall judge for them the People but the People themselves for the Commons were chosen but as Representees for them to put up from time to time as sodaine occasion should bee offered the desires and minds of the People who could not at all times and upon all occasions be present themselves Whereas now in this Case when the People both Understand Petition and call for Reliefe if their Representees will not heare nor move nor vote for them why should they not be heard speaking themselves and I am sure in the beginning of this Parliament it was thus practised and not long since declared by both Houses That it is the proper byrth-right of the Subject to Petition that they may be heard and accordingly they were for a long time to effect But if you now are against this popular way of pleasing the many by hearing their Petitions which at first was held the right way or the way to guide the two Houses then why suffer you not the People to heare their chiefe Magistrates and wise-men speaking and moving for them for can it bee conceived that the People eight yeeres agoe wrought by feare favour wine or money to choose you their Representees should bee tied and bound up to defend doe and suffer what you all dayes of your lives shall vote though it bee never so wicked un-just or against them or the Kingdome Instead then of the Case as put by the Reasoners I conceive the Case will bee this That if no Treaty nor Peace can be had then unavoidably must follow a decay of Trade waste of the Wealth and Men of this Kingdome the confusion of Religion Law and Justice the necessary concomitants and consequents of un-civill-Warre and Arbitrary Government And then the question will and must be briefly this Whether in point of Religion Law Justice and Policie all these should bee certainly and necessarily brought on rather then some few inconsiderable persons who have transgressed all Law by God and man by false worship taking Gods name in vaine prophaning his holy-day dishonouring their parent by murther theft false witnessing should bee put but in an hazard to answer for their transgressions I say but in an hazard to answer their transgressions For unlesse these men shall bee willfully and obstinately set to maintain continue and goe on in their former wicked wayes they may have hope nay they have a royall promise and themselves are able in the Treaty to make it good to obteine a generall pardon for all both for themselves their friends and their so called Godly Divines And to make this grant and pardon the more sure and binding they shall not only have the words and faithfull promise and the assent of the King to an act in Parliament but the concurrence of this and the other two Kingdomes many if not the most of which are ingaged as well though not so much as these commons So that there is nothing that they can object against this Pardon and assurance but that they cannot which is indeed that they will not trust and trust they cannot or will not that they may hereby hold and continue their usurped power and unjust gain which in effect is as much as to say Rather then they will forgoe these by a Treaty and Peace they will plunge not only the People of this but of the two other Kingdomes not only into an hazard but into the certain losses of estates and lives and into a waste if not an utter ruine and destruction of three Kingdoms which the People of the three Kingdomes if God shall please to endow them with Wisdome Judgement and Resolution will not suffer but will rise and joyne as one man to withstand and prevent 2. The Reasons why the Commons are more averse to a Treaty and so to Peace then the Lords are especially three which hang upon these three cords not easily to be broken 1. Profit 2. Power 3. Reputation in which the Commons gaine and the Lords in generall lose For the matter of Profit some of the Commons by their art and power in Parliament gaine yeerely many thousands divers get thousands and very few of them but by Offices sequestred-Estates Pentions keeping of Parkes Forrests enjoying the Lands of King Queene Prince and of the Church have and receive good yeerely incomes for it hath beene the policy of the leading men to invite and perswade some few men once of reasonable Consciences and more modest Soules to take such Places and Lands c. as before mentioned thereby not only to keepe them silent from speaking against their

Leaders but hereby to keep their mouthes open to cry I and No and to so vote for or against what shall be directed by them or as they heare Joller and Jumper mouthe it first Wheras the Lords the while though perhaps the Speaker the Keeper of the Seale some chiefe Committee-men and others may gaine by Bribes Yet such Lords as have great revenues by the continuall Taxes assessed quartering of Souldiers c. must eyther abate or allow their Tenants in their rents and so at the yeeres end become loosers And if you object that this likewise befalls the Commons as well as the Lords I answer that the least part of the Commons have any great store of Lands and those who have either by their power they can moderate and lighten their taxes laid on their lands or else they have recompence 3 5 10 20. for one by their other places offices or wayes of getting If therefore according to their selfe-denying Ordinance of 4. Aprill 1645. and their votes of the 10. of June 1647. those Commons should bee deprived of those places and wayes of gaining and be left to beare their own charge and which is worst of all to stand to the hazard whether when all profit ceaseth they might at last obteine a pardon you shall find them forward enough yea try them this way and I dare warrant they shall out-mouth the Lords for a Treaty Especially if you can but clip them of that power which they have in ruling more then the Lords or if it be but to take them off the power in ruling the Lords themselves for how immensely might I not say how infinitely have the Commons in this Parliament extended their priviledge and power beyond all measure and bound not over and against the King and all their fellow Subjects but even over and against the Lords too for when as it appeares by their severall writs which give and limit each of their powers the Peeres are called to advise and councell the King and the Commons to assent and doe what shall bee so advised and when as the Commons witnesse Sir Ed. Cooke are but as the grand Inquest to the Peers who with the King are the only Judges yet is it not so come to passe that in this Parliament when the Commons have first debated and voted that they then have sent to the Lords willing them to concurre and in case that they should not that then the names of the dissenting Lords should bee transmitted to the Commons and so by them to bee voted and declared enemies to the State witnesse the message sent to the Lords by an eminent Member of the Commons Jan. 1641. and when all power of judicature is in the Lords house by reason of the Kings sitting there and all Pardons of high nature doth belong only to the King have not the Commons witnesse their late Order 17. July 1641. taken upon them to give sentence upon the high insurrection as they call it in Kent and to grant publish and proclaim a Pardon to so many as they please and all this without the Lords And the Commons having thus Lorded it in power over the Peeres it is easie to conceive whether the Lords or Commons beare the greater sway or have the greater power in pleasing or displeasing punishing or rewarding either Souldier Committee-men or the Subject in generall Especially when you consider what is generally observed that when the Commons keepe to that which they call their Priviledge not to bee impeached sequestred their places or judged by the Peeres yet the Peeres in this Parliament have been impeached sequestred and sentenc'd by the Commons Which being so believe it where the power is in ruling there will the opinion follow of honouring and obeying and by these two advantages of profit and power the Commons have gained to themselves the 3. cord of reputation and esteeme above the Lords and therefore will bee as hitherto they are more averse to the Treaty and Peace then the Lords are or will bee insomuch as they shall bee greater loosers then the Lords by this Treaty and Peace and as greater in losse so more in feare and danger then the Lords Not only in that they have over-powred and out-acted the Lords in the highest breach of Law and Loyalty but in that they have given one to another such large summes of the mony of the Kindome which by their own Ordinances should have beene otherwise disposed and for this in a Treaty some happily feare a questioning and some if they be able a refunding Others may feare and justly that they shall bee called to a reckoning for the vast summes of money by them received and not accounted for except perchance in a cursory way one to another and what satisfaction can this bee to the true man that the theeves have divided and accounted each to other the true mans goods might I not adde that divers of them are or justly might bee afraid of a Treaty least that they heare of the divers insolencies injuries oppressions bribes yea and thefts committed by them contrary not only to law but to their own Ordinances And may I not yet add the strange never before heard of like priviledge that for so many yeares many of them have kept themselves from paying their just debts yea and hazarding by the length of this Parliament the utter defrauding of their creditors for ever there being a Statute of Limitation 21. Jac. c. 16. which confines all suits to certain yeares which this Parliament hath exceeded already and by this meanes all actions against these debtors being Parliament men are frustrate and void in Law and who can or dare sue a Parliament-man least hee bee either committed to prison whether the debtor ought to bee sent or enjoyned to release the debt as some have beene constrained to doe this Parliament Lastly The guilt and horror of Conscience is so great and clamorous to many of the leading Grandees in this Parliament that they dare not trust themselves in a Treaty with the King nor with God or good men and not but only with an Army and that of such Souldiers as shall bee of their own choice and pay who therefore will bee ready on all turnes to prosecute their never so unjust and divelish commands bee they either against the King the Kingdom or God himselfe of all which wee have had too great and too long wofull experience 3. Some brief Reasons shewing that it is safer better for this Kingdom the two houses in Parliament to Treat with the King though he will not signe the three Propositions before the Treaty then to engage in a new warre in Case the King should refuse the so joyning of them For 1. It 's more then probable that the king wil not signe the Propositions before the Treaty 1 Because he hath already declared both his will and reasons against the so signing of them and that when hee had no such hope or

THE COMMONS Dis-Deceiver Touching their deceitfull delatory evasions of a desired speedy Treaty with the King the onely Expedient for a wished and happy Peace in the Kingdome CONTAINING 1. Answers to the Reasons of the Commons which they gave the Lords at a Conference July 25. 1648. against a Treaty 2. Reasons why the Commons rather then the Lords are against a Treaty 3. Reasons to shew that it is safer and better even for the Commons to adventure on a Treaty then to hazard a new Warre PSAL. 26.4 I have not dwelt with vain persons neither will I have fellowship with the deceitfull PSAL. 35.20 For why their communing is not for peace but they imagine deceitfull words against them that would be quiet in the Land Printed in the Yeere 1648. Brief Answers to the severall Reasons given by the Commons at a Conference with the Lords why they will have the three Bills sent and signed by the King before a Treaty The Reasons as collected and printed by an especiall Order of Parliament are these 1. Reason IF these Bills be not passed before the Treaty the Parliament will leave their friends in such a condition as they cannot be able to defend them who have stood for them Answer This Reason looks only to the defence of their friends who have stood for them and not to the defence of the Kingdome Church and People who keep and maintaine them 2. They say of their friends in generall not qualifying them by just honest good but be they what they will if their friends who have stood to them in their wicked designes tending to the unsupportable miseries of the People yet these they must defend be they who they will or be they never so many 3. But if these friends deserve or are capable of defence why are not the Commons able to defend them in a Treaty the Lords and your selves for whom they have stood being the Treaters or Judges for the most part in the case controverted 4. Stands this to honesty or reason that rather then not defend such friends in unjust wayes you will hazzard the declared good of the Kingdome a Treaty Me thinks with wise just and good men this should not be urged as a Reason But the second happily will make amends for this which is 2. Reason If they prevaile who p●esse on this Treaty such godly Divines who are placed by the Parliament shall be put out and scandalous Ministers restored to their places Answer Before I answer the Reason I shall examine some passages in the words and phrases as 1. Why they call themselves not the House or Houses in Parliament but the Parliament it selfe which cannot be without the King who by our Lawes Sir Edw. Cook M. St. Johns Pym c. is the Head the beginning and end of our Parliaments 2. That they whom the one or the other House hath placed are called Divines as though they were the onely Divines the learned in that profession and not so onely but as though they are the only holy upright and therefore called the godly Divines 3. But the others whom they have put our although for no other reason then that the other might be put in to serve the two Houses these and all these without exception are but Ministers Servants and that scandalous too so that their Geese are Swans white godly Divines all holy Pharisees and all the rest foule black birds or scandalous very Publicans 4. Where they say these Ministers shall be restored to their places imply they not that these places are justly the Ministers and not lawfully belonging to their Divines But not to insist on words and phrases what reason is there in this that rather then their so called Divines should leave what they unlawfully hold or come to a triall whether they be fitter to hold or the other Ministers to be restored that we shall have no peace nor Treaty Ahab that idolatrous bloody Tyrant was more just and reasonable then these Reasoners for though he accounted the Prophet the troubler of Israel yet he would treat or put it to a triall whether Elijah the Prophet or Jezebels Priests were the better and more deserving for Gods Service and not hazard all rather then put this to the triall 3. Reason If we treat with the King about calling in His Majesties Declarations wee give a great advantage to the King against our selves Answer If the Declarations on the Kings part be just and according to Law why not give the King leave to treat whether he should reca●l them whereas if they be unjust what need you fear but that they shall be recalled 2. Nay what need you feare when as the King hath promised so a peace may be setled that be they never so just and lawfull on his part yet for your sakes he will recall them 3. But still see that as the other two Reasons of a Treaty and Peace look'd upon their friends so this minds only themselves and that so farre that they will rather hazzard all then adventure to give an advantage to the King as they say against themselves 4. Reason If the three Bills be not passed they give oportunity to have the power of Parliament questioned for all the blood spilt in the late warres which never was questioned by any of his Majesties Predecessors Answer 1. That the Parliament i. the King the two Houses have power to make warre wherein blood may be and is spilt is out of question 2. But grant that the two Houses have without just power spilt so much blood must we want peace rather then they shall heare of it though without punishment 3. Or rather then the two Houses should be questioned whether they have such a power must we be without a Treaty and Peace and so fall into a new warre to the spilling of more blood and must this stand for a Reason too 4 When they say the like was never questioned by any of his Majesties Predecessors we usually say a Negative of fact cannot be proved especially in such a case and after so great revolution of yeares and times therefore had the Reasoners said the like hath not for ought we read or find it had been more modest and more worthy of beliefe then to say the like never was 5 But if the like never was the Reason may be because the like Rebellion or Warre never was in the times of any his Majesties Predecessors There hath been warres in the times of his Majesties Predecessors between Party and Party who should be the right Heire and so should enjoy the Crowne or between the King and Barons for obteining and upholding each others rights and betwixt the King and the rascality of the People when those the Taile would usurp a power over the King the Head But the like Warre as this when after the King had redressed all their just grievances by so many Acts confirmed when after he had given them more of his own just Rights