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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91196	Independency examined, vnmasked, refuted, by twelve new particular interrogatories: detecting both the manifold absurdities, inconveniences that must necessarily attend it, to the great disturbance of church, state, the diminution, subversion of the lawfull undoubted power of all christian magistrates, parliaments, synods: and shaking the chiefe pillars, wherwith its patrons would support it. / By William Prynne of Lincolnes Inne, Esquier.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1644 (1644)	Wing P3985; Thomason E257_3; ESTC R210043	15,631	15

judgments a verse to unity piety purity but † prone to Errour Heresie Schismes lyes yea lying phantasies and through defect of a severe coercive power in Ecclesiasticall Synods-Parliaments temporall Magistrates who as * some new Independent Lights informe us have no coercive power to suppresse these springing heresies but onely by a non-communion with or refuting them by the word to which they will obstinatly * refuse to hearken as deeming their own opinions most divine we shall have almost as many severall heresies sects Churches as there are families persons Quot homines tot sententiae tot Ecclesiae Yea if they thus admit every Minister or secular person to have a divine right freedom to set up such an independent Church and government as he pleaseth then by the self-same reason they must have a like liberty to elect erect what civill forme of government they please to set up a new Independent Republike Corporation Kingdome Magistracy in every family parish city county and to cast off all former civill Governours Governments Lawes at pleasure as well as Ecclesiasticall there being the selfe-same grounds both of obligation obedience to and exemption from the one as other And if men by their Christian liberty shall thus be wholly exempted at their pleasure as well from all temporall as ecclesiasticall Lawes and formes of government as grant me but the one they must of necessity yeeld the other the same Texts Reasons obliging us equally in both and * Kings Parliaments having the self-same jurisdiction in and over all † ecclesiasticall matters which are not positively of divine institution and injunction as in and over temporall what an Anarchy and Ataxy this will suddenly introduce to turn all Kingdomes Republikes Nations Corporations Churches Families and the World it self quite upside down and ruine them by schisms I tremble to imagine 5. Whether the Minister alone or the Congregation without the Minister or both conjoined have power in their Independent Churches to make and prescribe particular formes of Church-covenants orders conditions to all who are or shall be admitted members of their new erected congregations If the Minister alone without the people which I suppose they grant because he is the principall actor in gathering their new Churches to himselfe and the sole person who must first admit them to be members of his Flock upon his own conditions I would then demand whether every Independent Minister arrogates not as much or more power to himselfe in making prescribing lawes and covenants to his congregation by his own inherent authority without consent of King Parliament Synod or People as the Pope himselfe usurpeth and farre more power authority then Independents either do or dare ascribe to Christian Princes Magistrates Councels or the Parliament to all and every of which they absolutely * deny any power of making or prescribing ecclesiasticall lawes covenants canons to binde them or their independent Churches or any members of them yea any sufficient coercive power to restrain or punish Hereticks Schismaticks or Broachers of heterodox novell opinions to disturb the Churches or Republikes tranquillity If the people alone without the Minister or both conjoyned then you invest every Independent Conventicle consisting of never so few inconsiderable ignorant members with a greater legislative power and ecclesiasticall authority then you allow to whole Nationall Parliaments Councels consisting of most eminent learned pious persons of all sorts who by your New doctrine have no jurisdiction at all to make or enjoyne any forme of church-government covenant ecclesiasticall lawes or canons to any particular churches as if the eminentest Ministers and members of churches by becomming members of Parliaments or Councels did thereby forfeit and lose the right or exercise of that power in those great representative bodies of the whole Kingdome and church of England which you readily allow both them and others in every private church or Conventicle A most strange and senselesse whimsie 6. Whether it be lawfull or justifiable by the Word of God for any Independent Minister of England contrary to the Lawes of the Realme and Inhibitions of Parliament of his owne bare authority to congregate and erect an independent congregation or to prescribe a particular forme of church-government together with a church-covenant in nature of a solemne Oath to which euery particular member of his new congregation must subscribe before admission into his Church Whether there bee any the least precept president in Scripture or Antiquity to warrant such an irregular usurped authority and power among Christians which the verie Apostles themselves never claimed Whether all the particular churches in any Nation Kingdome city Republike professing the same orthodox Faith though divided for more conveniency into severall congregations be not all members of and constitute but * one intire Nationall church or common christian Society as they did at first before thus multiplied augmented even as all the particular houses parishes societies in London are members of and make but one city and corporation all the families parishes townes counties in England but one Kingdome or Republike and as all particular and Nationall churches in the world make up but one entire catholike militant church whence both in Scripture phrase and common speech in all Authors Languages whatsoever they are commonly called by the name of One Church in the singular number as the Church of England France Scotland Ireland the Eastern Westerne Greeke Latine Church the Church of the Jewes Gentiles c. And if so then let our Independents shew me if they can the least colour of Scripture or reason why the Parliament and Assembly chosen to assist them by publike consent representing our whole church State may not as lawfully set up and prescribe a new church-government discipline lawes and canons agreeable to and not discrepant from Gods Word to binde all particular churches and persons within our Realme as well as pull downe and demolish the old or make temporall lawes and ordinances to binde all persons societies members of the Realm and Independents too as well as others both to obedience and punishment or else for ever disclaim their new-minted government their declamations arguments against the power of nationall Synods Parliaments in Ecclesiastical matters and church-government as most ridiculous and absurd 7. Whether the members of every Independent Church may at their owne free liberty when ever they please desert their owne particular Church and become members of other Independent or Presbyteriall Congregations without the licence or dispensation of their owne Church or Minister first obtained If yea then why oblige they them to the contrary by particular Church-covenants or refuse to admit any members of one Independent Church into another without such consent or licence first obtained or at least repute it a grand injury in that Church or Minister who admits them especially if they be wealthy members for some say poore ones and persons of meaner condition are not much regarded by

common Law as * Mr Selden with others more t●uely interp●t●t Since our Saviour speaks there 1. of a private trespasse done to a private person of which no church classes or ecclesiasticall consistorie hath proper conusance not of a publike scandal to the congregation or any scandalous crime or vice as is evident by the very first words and by Luk. 17. 3 4. compared with ●●n 50. 17. 1 King 8. 31. 2. Of a demand of private satisfaction first personally next in presence of witnesse before any complaint to the church or councell 3. Of no censure or judgment passed but barely of an admonition given by the church to the partie offending which if neglected and not heard then 4. Not the church councell and all other persons but onely the partie offended was to repute but not excommunicate out of the church or congregation him as an heathen and a publicane which were both odious to the Iewes who had no civill conversation with them and were no members of the Iewish church except Proselites as the expresse words let him be TO THEE not any others as an heathen and a pulican that is converse no more with him but avoid his company 2 Thes. 3. 14. resolve Which Reasons compared with Matth. 5. 22 25. c. 10. 17. c. 12. 14. c. 22. 15. c. 27. 1 7. Acts 18. 12 13 14 15 16. c. 16. 20 21. c. 17. 6. c. 23. 1. 14 15. c. 24. 1. to 7. c. 25. 26. infallibly evidence the Church or Assembly in this Text to be meant onely of the Temporall court Councell or Sanhedrin of the Iewes not of any Ecclesiasticall or Church-Iudicatory or excommunication as Papists anciently with some others now determine 11. Whether the Apostles and members of the first evangelicall Synode we read of Acts 15. sate and voted in it as Apostles onely indued with a spirit of infallibilitie which was a peculiar priviledge to them alone or else in their ordinary capacity as Elders and chief members of it If as Apostles only and in that extraordinary capacitie as * Independents assert then 1. Paul and Barnabas being Apostles as well as they might have decided that controversie at Antioch without sending to Jerusalem to determine it 2. The church at Antioch would have sent to none but the Apostles to resolve their doubts and not to the Elders at Jerusalem as well as to the Apostles as they did vers. 2. Thirdly Paul and Barnabas would have put the question to the Apostles onely not to the Elders and church as well as to them which they did vers. 4 5 6. Fourthly the Apostles would not have called a Synod of all the Apostles Elders and Brethren at Jerusalem to consider of or consult about this thing vers. 6. but have determined it presently by their infallible spirit without consultation or a Synods assistance Fifthly Peter and James would not have argued the case so largely and proved it by arguments and Scriptures as they did one after another vers. 17 to 23. but have peremptorily resolved it without dispute had they sate and determined it by their extraordinarie infallible power Sixtly the finall resolution letters and canons of this Synod had run onely in the Apostles names had they proceeded onely by their Apostolicall infallible authoritie and not in the names of the Elders and Brethren too coupled together with theirs both in the letters and canons vers. 21 22 23 24 27 28. c. 16. 4. c. 21. 18. 25. who were not all endued with the self-same infallibility and power as the Apostles were for ought can be proved Therfore their assembling in this councell not in their extraordinary capacity as Apostles only but as Elders Ministers and the Elders Brethrens sitting together in Councel with them upon this controversie and occasion is an undeniable Scripture-authority for the lawfulnesse use of Parliaments Councels Synods under the Gospel upon all like necessarie occasions and for their power to determine controversies of Religion to make Canons in things necessary for the churches peace and government there being no one place in Scripture against it but many Texts in the old Testament to backe it elsewhere quoted mauger all evasions exceptions to elude it 12. Whether the temporall Magistrate Parliament and civill State have not a lawfull coercive power though * not to restraine the preaching of the Gospel and truth of God yet to suppresse restraine imprison confine banish the broachers of any heresies schismes erronious seditious doctrines enthusiasmes or setters up of new formes of Ecclesiasticall government without lawfull authoritie to the endangering of the peoples soules or disturbance of the Churches Kingdomes peace as well as Ministers and particular Churches Christians power to * reprove refute avoid excommunicate or anathematize them notwithstanding † some Independents new-minted objections against it and that by virtue of Deut. 13. 1. to 12. Lev. 24. 11. to 17. Num. 26. throughout Josh. 7. 25. 26. c. 22. 11. to 34. Psal. 101. 4 5 8. 4 5 8. 1 King 18. 40. 2 King 10. 21 to 29. c. 23. 5. 20. 2 Chro. 34. 4. 5. Rom. 13. 1. to 6. 1 Pet. 2. 14. Gal. 5. 12. Rev. 2. 20. c. 19. 20. 21. cap. 17. 16. And the ten hornes interpreted to be ten Kings v. 12. shall hate the whore with all her Panders and shall make her desolate and naked and shall eat her flesh and shall burne her with fire for God hath put it into their hearts TO FVLFILL HIS WILL Ezra 7. 26. And whosoever will not doe the Law of thy God let judgment be executed speedily upon him whether it be unto death or unto banishment or to confiscation of goods or to imprisonment with sundry * other Texts Hence * Christian Princes Magistrates Parliaments in all ages and churches in the world have made severe temporall Lawes Edicts against and inflicted corporall punishment banishment confiscation of goods and in some cases death it selfe upon Hereticks Schismaticks disturbers of the churches peace with erronious or seditious doctrines which lawfull power of theirs hath ever bin asserted by the most † orthodox Churches Writers in all ages and never oppugned by any but Anabaptists who deny all civill Magistrates or such licencious Hereticks Schismaticks or false Teachers who would spread their pestilent errours and seditious novell positions without restraint or durst never suffer Martyrdome for or seale them with the losse of their Liberties Lives Estates which godly orthodox Martyrs and Christians have cheerfully undergone under Pagan Hereticall and Popish Kings Magistrates And if we either deny abolish eclipse diminish or suspend this necessary coercive power the principall meanes under God to suppresse extirpate all growing errours schismes which disturbe the churches trantranquilitie seduce unstable soules our church and realmes will be soone overgrowne with dangerous errours heresies schismes and brought to speedy desolation the contemptible sword of excommunication or non-communion and the bare preaching of Gods Word to obstinate Hereticks

in the world Whether a Parliament of the most eminent religious learned grave zealous wisest Peeres and Commons of this Realme the representative body and grand Councell of the Kingdom assisted with the advice judgment of an Assembly of the most orthodoxe pious consciencious learned Ministers in our Church specially selected for this purpose of the chiefest of your Independent party be not more fit to form fashion the government of the Churches of Christ and better able to resolve determine upon long and serious debate what Church-government is most agreeable to the Word of God and fittest for every particular Parish-church throughout this Island for the advancement of Gods glory the peoples salvation the generall peace and tranquillity of Church and State then any one or two Independent Ministers with five or sixe of their illiterate impolitick and perchance inconsiderate Members to use no harsher epithite assembled in a private Conventicle can doe in two or three houres space And whether it bee meeter that these should prescribe a church-government discipline to themselvs the Parliament Synod and whole Kingdome to boot or the Parliament and Assembly to them who deeme themselves e wiser holier in their owne vaine conceits then a thousand Parliaments Synods put together I doubt not they wil all confesse that in their Congregationall debates about any point of order discipline government or doctrine in any of their Independent Churches the f major voice or party ought to over-rule and binde the lesse And if so let them yeeld me a solid reason when they are able why the Ecclesiasticall constitutions Resolutions Orders Edicts of the greatest part of an whole Nationall Parliament Synod Kingdome should not much more binde both them and all their Independent Churches as well as others as they have ever hitherto done And why a combined Presbytery of many learned Ministers Lawyers Gentlemen of best judgment quality should not be fitter to decide all Church-controversies and affaires of moment within their prefixed limits by generall Laws and Canons setled in Parliament by common consent then any Independent or popular Tribunall of lesser judgement and experience by their owne arbitrary privat edicts Else they must deny what the holy Ghost informs us g That two are better then one h that in the multitude of Counsellours there is safety or that the pious i Kings in the old Testament or a Nationall Councell or Parliament of their Princes Nobles Elders Captaines and people of best quality had any lawfull power to reforme or settle all weighty Ecclesiasticall Church-affaires as they ever did by Gods owne command and approbation 3. Whether it be not the Independents professed Tenet if truely and positively laid downe that * every Minister hath a divine right and liberty to gather to himselfe an Independent Church not of Pagans Infidels converted by himselfe alone but of all the eminentest Christians formerly converted and regenerated by the Ministry of others especially if rich or potent persons able to give them large contributions and support who shall voluntarily submit themselves to his Ministry and such a Church-government as he shall dictate to them though by our established lawes and customes which our solemne Vow and Covenant obligeth us to maintaine they be Parishioners to twenty other godly Ministers by whose Ministry they were first regenerated and built up in grace That every Christian hath a free liberty by the Law of God to unite himselfe to what Independent Congregation hee pleaseth the husband to one Congregation the wife to another the children to a third the servants to a fourth nay every distinct person in a family to a severall Church and that not onely without but against the consents of their owne Magistrates Ministers Husbands Parents Masters who have no jurisdiction as some say over their consciences herein so as one great family shall be divided into members of twenty or thirty severall Independent Churches if they please and those perchance different one from another in their government opinions discipline ceremonies That those whose consciences or judgments will not permit them to joine with their Independent Churches which they * professe to be canonicall though guided by no canons and of divine assertion denying all other Church-government to be so must be wholly excluded as Heathens and Reprobates from being members of any Church or rather by the self-same Christian liberty as Independents plead for they may unite themselves into Presbyteriall or Hierarchicall Churches or what other forme they please to elect and so we shall have an Independent Church-government in one part of a Family Parish Town County Kingdom a Presbyteriall in another an Episcopall in a third and by this means if the husband bee a great stickler for Episcopacy and member of a Prelaticall Church the wise a fierce zealot for Independency and a member of such a congregation the children or servants stout champions for Presbytery and members of such assemblies what confusion distraction implacable contestations * schismes tumults this Licentiousnesse for I cannot stile it Freedome of conscience would soone inevitably engender in all Families Villages Cities Counties Kingdomes to their utter ruine and desolation the meanest capacity may with ease divine without the help of an Oracle However it would unavoidably subvert all ancient bounds of Parishes all setled maintenance for the Ministry by tithes or otherwise and put all Ministers into the condition of Friars mendicants to live as Independents do upon the Almes or voluntary contributions of their severall congregations to whose humours errours opinions they must either readily conforme or else starve for want of subsistence in case of their displeasure being subject to casheering upon every small dislike 4. Whether Independents must not necessarily grant from their owne principles that as every Minister hath free liberty to congregate what Church hee pleaseth of men suitable to his own opinions practise so also particular persons have a like liberty to unite themselves together into a Church to elect what Minister they thinke best and prescribe to themselves what government they shall conceive to be most sutable to the Scriptures And if so then every man will * heap to himselfe Teachers and erect Churches after his own lusts meer Papists and Popishly affected persons will set up Popish Churches and Priests Arminians Arminian Churches and Preachers Anabaptists Anabaptisticall Ministers and Assemblies Arrians Anti-Trinitarians such conventicles and Pastors Libertines a licentious Church and Ministry yea every Heretick Sectary or guidy-pated Enthusiast upon pretext of new Revelations and discoveries of concealed Evangelicall truths though when exactly scanned they may oft times prove old errors or meer diabolicall delusions will erect new Independent Churches of their own and that for succession and perpetuity to the perverting of infinit soules uncontroulable unsuppressible by any Ecclesiasticall or Civill authority And thus in few moneths or yeares space at least through Satans instigations our owne depraved

Papists Schismaticks who will * contemn the Word and excommunicate all other churches dissenting from them as hereticall schismaticall as fast as they excommunicate or discommon them and so propagate perpetuate their heresies schismes without redresse being unable to suppresse such peremptory offendors without the temporall Magistrates sword of justice added to them Who having a lawfull jurisdiction derived to them in the Gospel * to punish and suppresse all evill doers without distinction have doubtlesse an unquestionable authority to punish obstinate Heretickes Schismaticks false Teachers with temporall censures who are the greatest malefactors sinning against the Word and Truth of God disturbing the peace of Church State seducing and destroying peoples soules a far greater crime then to murder their bodies or rob them of their estates In briefe all Protestant Churches whatsoever in their publike * Confessions acknowledge that the care of preserving propagating true Religion of suppressing extirpating heresies errours schismes superstition idolatry and the fautors of them by temporall punishments and censures of all sorts doth principally belong to Christian Magistrates Kings Princes Which duty they can in no sort execute if now with the Anabaptists ou deny them this most just coercive power That all lawfull civill Magistrates and Powers whatsoever though instituted by men are even in the new Testament expresly resolved to be the * Ordinances of God and all their just commands Lawes Edicts not repugnant to Gods Word readily to be obeyed and submitted to EVEN FOR CONSCIENCE and FOR THE LORDS SAKE under paine of sinne and condemnation Therefore what ever our pious Parliament the supreme power by advice of the Assembly after much Fasting Prayer Disputes Advice and serious consultation shall order decree touching Church-government or discipline as most consonant and not repugnant to Gods Word ought in point of conscience to be submitted to by Independents and all others as to a Government Discipline Ordinance approved of by God and if any Heretickes false Teachers Schismaticks obstinately refuse conformity after due admonition and all good means used to reclaim them the Poets Divinity and Policy must then take place as well in Eclcesiasticall as civill and naturall maladies * Cuncta prius tentanda sed immedicabile vulnus Ense rescidendum est ne pars syncera trahatur Deut. 12. 8. Ye shall not doe after the things that we doe here this day every man whatsoever is right in his owne eyes FINIS * Gal. 4. 16. a Reply of two of the brethren to A. S. p. 66. b Luk. ● 37. * I pray informe me why an whole Parliament and Assembly of godly Christians and Divines wherein are many of your owne chiefe Independent Ministers members should be more secular unclean filthy or unable to make a spirituall extraction of Church-government then one of your Independent Churches or Conventicles c A Reply to A. S. p. 85. d Page 42. to 65. e Pro. 2●●●6 cap. 30. 1● ●●● 65. 5. 〈◊〉 18. 10. to 16. f 1 Chron. 13. 4 5. Act. 15. 22 23 c. g Eccles. 4. 9 10 11 h Pro. 11. 14 i 1 Chro. 13 3 4 5. c. 28. 〈◊〉 29. 2 Chro. ● 5 6. 7. c. 23 2 3. c. 30. 10. to 27. c. 31 ● ●isth 9 20. 〈◊〉 31. Ezra 3. 1. c. 10. 1. c ●eh 8. 1 c. * They should ●owell to define 1. Of how many members every Independent Congregation should consist 2. Within what precincts they should live 3. What set stipends they shall allow them and how raised when ascertained 4. When and where their Churches should assemble 5. Who shall prescribe extraordinary 〈◊〉 of fasting or thansgiving to them upon just occasions 6. Who shall rectifie their Church-covenants Discipline Censures Government if erronious or unjust 7. Shew us a sufficient satisfactory Commission from Gods Word for all they doe or desire before they gather any Churches * Reply of two of the Brethren 64 65 66 c. * 1 Cor. 1. 11. 12. 13. cap. 3. 3 4. Mat. 12. 51. 52. 53. * 2 Tim. 4. 3 4 A proplaesse which concerns our present times † Gal. 5 20 21. c. 2. 11 12 14. Act. 15. 39. ● Thes. 2. 11. Rom. 1. 29. 31 c. 16. 17. 1 Tim 6. 5 6. Tit. 3 9. * Reply of two of the brethren pag. 52. ●0 61. * 2 Tim 4 6. * See 1 Chro. 13. 1 to 7. 2 Chro. 5. 6 7. c. 15. 8. to 16 c. 30. 1 to 7. c. 31. 1. c. 34. 31 32 33 34. Ezra 7. 26. cap. 10. 1 to 7. Esth. 9. 20. to 32. † 25. H. 8 c. 19 21. 37. H. 8. c. 17 26. H. 8. c. 1 27. H. 8. c. 16. 28. H. 8. c. 10. 1. E. 6. c. 2. 1. Eliz. 6. c. 1 2. 8. Eliz. c. 1. 31. H. 8. c. 10 14. 32. H. 8. c. 22 24 28. 33. H. 8. c. 29 34. 35. H. 8. c. 17. 19. 35. H. 8. c. 1. 3. * Reply of two of the brethren p. 52. to 69. * As one and the same City Kingdom Nation encreased with new houses parishes streets territories and generations of people continue still but one and the self-same City Kingdom Nation So the first Christian Church planted in any City Kingdome Nation when spread over all that City Kingdome Nation and distributed into severall particular congregations continues but one and the self-same generall Church of which all particular Churches are members and not Independent absolute in themselves divided from or vnsubjected to the intire common nationall Church 1 Cor. 12. 12 to 22. Ep●● 2. 19 20 21. c. 1. 3 to 17. Acts 2. 47. * Matth 7. 12. 〈◊〉 c. 6. 31. * Psal. 34. 1. to 11. Psal. 120. 3 Psal. 42. 1 2. Psal. 27 4. † 2 Chro. 6. 30. Ier 17. 19. 20. Act. 1. 24 * M●●● 26. 20 to 32. Mark 14. 10 c. Luke 22. 3. to 24. Iohn 6. 70 71. † 1 Cor. 11. 17. to 34. * 1 Pet. 5. 3. † Moses the chief temporal Magistrate under the Law together with David Solomon and other godly kings did by Gods owne direction and approbation direct order and settle all particulars in and about the Altar Tabernacle Arke Temple consecrating both them and the Priests too appointing all Officers about them together with the courses of the Priests Singers that by cōmon advice of the Princes Captains Elders of the people not by the votes or directions of the Priests who had no ruling voice herein which authority being no where revoked nor denied Christian Princes Magistrates Parliaments under the Gospel they no doubt enjoy it still And therefore these Ministers who thus erect new Churches usurp on their authority * De Anno civili c Pr●satio p. 6. ● c 18. p 83 84 And D jure Natura Gent●um l. 4. c. 8. * Reply to A. S. p 70 71. * Mat. 10. 17 18 Mar. 9. 10 13 Acts 4. 16. to 23. c. 5. 17. to the end * 1 Tim. 1. 19 20. 2 Cor. 6. 14. to 18. Rom. 16. 17. Tit. 3. 10 11. 2 Ioh. 10 11. † Reply of two of the brethren p. 51. to 63. * Matt. 10. 17 18 21. c. 26. 47 to 74. c. 27. 1 to 60. Acts 4. 1 to 24 c. 5 17 to 40. c. 6. 12 13. c. 9. 1 2 3. c. 11. 2 3 4. c. 16. 20 to 40. c. 18. 12. c. c. 23 24 25 26 27. rightly understood * Iustinian Codic l. 1. Tit. 8. 10. and our Lawes against Iesuits Priests and Recusants † See the Harmony of Confessions sect. 19. * Psal. 58. 4 5. Ier. 30. 19. c. 〈◊〉 33. Isa 30. ● 10. 2 Tim. 4 3 1. * Rom. 13. 1 〈◊〉 7. 1 Pet. 2. 13 14 15. Tit. 3. 1. * See Harmony of Confessions Sect. 19. * Rom. 13. 1 to 8. 1 Pet. 2. 13 14 15. Tit. ● 1 10 11. ● Pet. 2. 10 11 Iude 8 9 * Ovid Me 〈…〉