it may be really so or may be not so for all its Venerable Ancient Appearance we can conclude with no more Certainty than he leaves it only we may believe from the Credit of the Arguments produced by his Nephew Samuel Dopping 's Father the Reverend and Learned Doctor Dopping late Bishop of Meath that this old Modus was found in the Treasury of Waterford by my Lord Longford's Grandfather My Reader may perhaps think me as impertinent in this Repetition but I do it to shew that I have in this abbreviated about nine of his pages which offers no more of Argument to the Matter than that Henry the Second settled the Kingdom of Ireland under the very same Coustitution of Governmâ—nt with England and this we should as readily have granted as he could have propos'd and 't is sufficiently to our purpose that he hath abundantly prov'd That all Ranks and Orders of the Irish did unanimously agree to submit themselves to the Government of the King of England That they did thankfully receive the Laws of England and swear to be governed thereby and I know not what hath releas'd them from any part of that Obligation to this day himself owning that There cann't be shewn a more fair Original Compact than this between Henry the Second and the People of Ireland and we have desired no more from them than that they should continue to be so governed He tells us It is manifest that there were no Laws imposed on the People of Ireland by any Authority of the Parliament of England nor any introduced by Henry the Second but by the Consent and Allowance of the People of Ireland and that both the Civil and Ecclesiastical State were settled there Regiae Sublimitatis Authoritate not only this but the manner of holding Parliaments also to make Laws of their own which is the Foundation and Bulwark of the Peoples Liberties and Properties was directed and established there by Henry the Second as if 〈◊〉 were resolved that no other Person or Persons should be the Founders of the Government of Ireland but himself and the Consent of the People who submitted themselves to him against all Persons whatsoever Was it fit for the King to have carried a Parliament about with him or because he had not a Parliament there must it follow therefore that their Authority could never have any concern in what was done The King was now abroad with the Forces of the Kingdom and 't is not to be suppos'd that his own Authority was not sufficient to make Terms with the Enemy if they submitted we do not pretend that the Power of our King is limited at that rate yet whatever Submission is made to his Person on such Occasions is doubtless virtually made as to the Supream Authority of the Kingdom and that I believe every Body will allow to be in our Constitution the King Lords and Commons in all whom the Legislature resides and not in either separate from the rest The King may be said to be vested with the Power of the whole in the Civil and Military Administration of the Government and yet whatsoever is acted or acquired under his Authority as King of England must doubtless be esteemed to be for the Account of the Nation and not in any Propriety peculiar to himself To talk then As if the Parliament had nothing to do in this Transaction and that King Henry the Second acted in it as if he were resolv'd that no other Person or Persons should be the Founders of the Government of Ireland but himself is Language not becoming an Englishman and I wonder that this Author could have so little Sense of what he was about when he said this for in the very next Paragraph but one he gives us an Instance which shews beyond all Contradiction that King Henry himself had no such Opinion of his own Seperate Authority And now he comes to the Matter and tells us that King Henry about the 23d â—ear of his Reign and five Years after his Return from Ireland creates his Younger Son John King of Ireland at a Parliament held at Oxford and that by this Donation Ireland was most eminently set apart again as a seperate and distinct Kingdom by it self from the Kingdom of England and did so continue until the Kingdom of England descended and came unto King John after the Death of his Brother Richard the First which was about 22 years after his being made King of Ireland during which time and whilst his Father and Brother were successively reigning in England he made divers Grants and Charters to his Subjects of Ireland wherein he stiles himself Dominus Hiberniae and in some Dominus Hiberniae Comes Meritoniae by which Charters both the City of Dublin and divers other Corporations enjoy many Privileges and Franchises to this day We know that diâ—ers of our Kings have at several Times granted out Parcels of their Dominions to their Sons or Subjects and endowed them with many Royal Privileges yet always as Feudatories of the Empire after the same manner so much anciently practised in most Kingdoms of Europe such have been in England the Principality of Wales the Counties Palatine of Chester Lancaster and Durham and what was much less considerable than these the Isle of Man was given with the Title of King in Man which was more than King Iohn had which continues in the Earls of Darby at this day In like manner also have Proprietoryships been granted to the Settlers of Colonies in America in our time and such and no other was this Grant of King Henry the Second to his Son Iohn but what is very remarkable in this Case is that this Grant was made in Parliament Did ever Man so expose himself in Print what he hath been endeavouring to prove is that the Irish were never so conquered by Henry the Second as to give the Parliament of England any Jurisdiction over them and yet here he tells us that this same King Henry created his Son Iohn King of Ireland in a Parliament at Oxford which to word it in the Stile of this time is to say that about the twenty third Year of Henry the 2d an Act of Parliament was made at Oxford by which Iohn the younger Son of the said King was Created King of Ireland Is it possible to think upon a greater Instance in which the Authority of a Parliament over a People can be exerted than this of creating a King to rule them and that without ever asking their Consent and is it not plain from this that King Henry himself did never esteem the Submission of the Irish to have been made to him in respect of his Person according to this Author 's New Doctrine but in respect of the Kingdom which he govern'd otherwise why did he not make a King of Ireland by his own Authority rather than thus eclipse his Power and Right if he had it by submitting it to be
or Territories lying at a distance from them 'T is only the Exercise of this Supream Salutary Authority that the Parliament of England pretend to and not to break in upon the Just Constitution so anciently granted and ever since continued to the People of Ireland of Enacting all such Laws by their Representatives in their own Parliaments as they think fit to be governed by or may be conducive to the well ordering the Affairs of their own Countrey and therefore this Gentleman hath no Reason to Tax us so often as he does with any Attempts upon their Rights and Properties breaking in upon their old Settled Constitution and rendring them the most unfortunate of all his Majesties Subjects by weakning their Rights to a greater degree than ever was done before If Poyning's Law be some Check to them 't was made in favour of the English Interest in Ireland and Mr. Molyneux finds no fault with it but that still leaves them at Liberty to consent or dissent to such Laws as the King in his English Privy-Council may propose to them The Rights that were granted them were large enough to secure them in the full Enjoyment of their Liberty and Property in the same Manner as if they had liv'd in England these we have preserv'd to them inviolated in as large a manner as ever they were granted let him shew any Law from England that hath ever innovated upon their Judicatories their Persons or their Estates his Exclamations can no way be applicable to us unless it shall appear that we have wronged them in such Rights as those But this Supream Imperial Authority was never granted to them nor can reside any where as long as the Monarchy lasts but in the King House of Lords and House of Commons in England the absolute Separation he pretends to in the Persom of King Iohn proves a Mistake so that his many peremptory Conclusions drawn from thence must fall as having no Foundation The Progeny of Englishmen wherever they live and are acknowledg'd to be such cannot be exempted from owing Allegiance to this Supream Jurisdiction 't is known that it hath Power to Command its Subjects out of the Territories of any other Prince upon the highest Penalties yea and to desert its Colonies and call home the People if Extremity shall so require He that shall deny it these Powers denies the very Essence of a Supream Government and how hard soever this Doctrine may seem to People that have liv'd out of England and have never considered these Notions yet the Reason of the thing must obtain upon every impartial Man and convince him that other Principles than these would have a Tendency to scatter and break to pieces all Humance Societies and bring People back again into the State of Nature Men cannot therefore shake off the Duty and Obedience they owe to the Community and say that an unbounded Liberty is the Right of all Mankind because this Liberty was given from them when they were in the Loyns of their Ancestors who consented to the Terms of the Constitution when they first entred into Societies and which must continue as long as that Society shall have a Being 'T is plain then that all just Liberty must be bounded by the Laws and Agreements of the Community and no Man ought to challenge to himself more Liberty than that allows him To apply this then to our Argument The People of England may not go out of the Kingdom and settle themselves in any other Country in manner of a Colony without leave first obtain'd of the King as Head of the Kingdom neither may they enter into a New Society and erect a New Form of Government different from that of their own Country in any such Settlement but they must have Directions and Authority from the King by his Charters Letters Patents or Commission whereby he grants them the Exercise of the Laws of England and the Power of calling together their own Representatives to Enact such further Laws not repugnant to the Laws of England as shall be requisite for the good Government of their Affairs in relation to which they are left to their own Liberty and Free-choice and not interrupted by the Government of England If after all this the King in Parliament shall find these People or their Posterity attempting any thing in this Settlement which if it be not stopt must prove very prejudicial and destructive to England Will any Man pretend to argue that the Kingdom which permitted assisted and protected these People in their Settlement hath no Authority left in her self to restrain them in matters that tend to her own Hurt and Damage And yet such Restraint is not to be accounted an Invading the Rights and Liberties of Englishmen 't is only a limitting them from acting or doing something in the Place where they are that however profitable it might be to themselves would yet be very damnifying to the greater Body of the Community of which they are a Member neither is this Restraint any more than in regard to the place their Persons are still free and they may if they please return to their own Mother Country and practice the same thing there with as much Freedom as any other of their Fellow Subjects If the Reader should think I have been too tedious upon this Point I hope he 'll consider that if many Words be necessary at any time 't is then when we are to perswade People out of that wherein they believe their own Interest and Profit greatly consists I think the Report of the Case of the Merchants of Waterford is an Authority which very much confirms what I have said but because he lays much stress upon it not only here but in another place when he treats upon the Lord Chief Justice Cook 's Opinion I will transcribe the Latin Record at large as he gives it Dicebant quod terr Hibern inter se habent Parliament et omnimoâ—o cur Prout in Angl. et per idem Parliamentum faciunt Leges mutant Leges non obligantur per statuta in Anglia quia non hic habent Milites Parliamenti sed hoc intelligitur de terris rebus in terris illis tantum efficiendo I believe it should be efficiendis sed personae eorum sunt Subject Regis et tanquam Subjecti erunt obligati ad aliquam rem extra terram illam faciend contra Statut. sicut habitantes in Calesia Gascoignie Guien c. dum fuere Subjecti et Obedientes erunt sub Admiral Angl. de re fact super Altum Mare similit brev de Errore de Iudicio reddit in Hibern in Banco Reg. hic in Angl. I shall now take the Liberty to vary somewhat from the Verbal Translation and render it in that sense that I think this Opinion of the Judges of the Court of Exchequer may be taken They say that the Land of Ireland hath a Parliament within it self and Courts of Judicature
eminently require it and which we should have done as effectually if they had sent Representatives to our Parliament as we have done it without them and as we do it to Kent and Sussex in restraining the Owling Trade notwithstanding they do send Representatives who cannot hinder if they Vote against and to be sure if they Vote for those Laws act against the Confent of those that send them and then why may not they complain of the Infringement of the Rights due to all Mankind by putting Laws upon them without their Consent but Mr. Molyneux may say they have Representments what if they don't consent may not these People then strongly insist that they are not bound Yes sure if General Notions of Liberty must be swallowed all in a Lump without distinguishing but here 's a Majority in the Case and that Obliges if it be ask'd further why should a Man be bound by ever so great a Majority so as to be restrain'd from doing what he will with his own according to the Liberty inherent in all Mankind by the Law of Nature Because he that is not born in the state of Nature is effectually bound by the Consent of his Ancestors to submit to the Constitution of his Countrey and that with us determines that the Majority shall bind Publick Societies can never be kept together nor the Good of the whole conserv'd without some such binding such Limitations of Freedom as this and this is what we have reason to require from the English of Ireland who are certainly a Colony of England sent thither by us bred up cherish'd and protected by us in the Enjoyment of good Estates and ample Privileges sufficient to preserve the intire Freedom of their Persons and their Properties in all manner of Liberty and perfect Enjoyment excepting only that if they should presume to extend it to such a Latitude as would be highly injurious and prejudicial to England and consequently to the whole English Empire by wounding its Head whereon also themselves always have and must relye for assistance so that in whatever they weaken her they work their own Destruction And the World will easily judge that as we have the utmost of Reason on our sides so if we are a perfect Government we must have sufficient Power residing in our Constitution to act upon all Extraordinary Occasions whatever we shall find absolutely necessary to our Preservation even to the binding of all the Members of our Empire without being oblig'd to ask their Assent The rest is little more than dilating upon Conclusions arising from such Premises which I hope I have sufficiently refuted in my former Discourse and therefore I shall meddle no more with it but to touch upon two Passages The one is where he tells us that It is against the King's Prerogative that the Parliament of England should have any co-ordinate Power with him to introduce New Laws or repeal old Laws established in Ireland But his Argument upon this is either false Printed or down-right Nonsense or at least so Confus'd that I Confess I cann't unravel it and I 'll begg the Reader if he would see it to look for it in page 167. for 't is too long to Transcribe and Comment upon where any on't is intelligible But to take it in the gross 't is no more than a weak attempt to raise a Jealousie about hurting the King's Prerogative when yet nothing that he hath offer'd looks like it but rather shews the King's Prerogative to be less there than in England I wonder Mr. Molyneux should render himself so ignorant of our Constitution in magnifying the Negative Vote which their Parliament hath upon whatever Law is sent to them from the King in his Privy Council as if that were a higher Privilege than the English Parliament has whenas a little Inquiry into these Matters would have inform'd him that the King can if he please bring a Bill into Parliament here and either House may reject it if they don't like the Law But then what Laws he sends to their Parliament must be first approv'd in the Privy Council here and doth not that shew that an Authority inferior to our High Court of Parliament hath a sort of Co-ordinate Power with him in the Legislature of Ireland And is it not an evident Demonstration that the King doth not act any thing in relation to Ireland upon any distinct Prerogative as various and differing from what was inherent in the Imperial Crown of England Nay is not the King's Prerogative exerted in a higher degree in the manner of his passing an English Law where he comes into the House of Lords and exercises in his own Person alone and without taking the Advice of the Privy Council of either of his other Kingdoms one full Third Part of the Legislative Authority and in Power above one half as having the Casting Vote by which he can deny against the other two Estates And when he thus passes any Law affecting Ireland can any thing be more absurd than to suggest That he thereby suffers a precious Iewel of his Crown to be handled roughly The last Passage I shall observe is his Parting-blow the last three Pages wherein he Cautions us two or three times over how Vnsafe it may be for us to assume a Iurisdiction whereby the Lords and People of Ireland may think themselves ill used their Rights and Liâ—erties invaded and taken away and they may be driven into Discontent from whence he hints there may be ill Consequences We may easily see his Meaning to be a Menace and though there may be some few of them as inconsiderate as he is yet we have a better Opinion of the Body of the English Protestants there than to believe that they will ever give us Occasion to think that we have need of Exercising severe Methods to keep them in their due Obedience Nay had we the least doubt of this it would behoove us not to suffer any Gentleman who hath an Estate in Ireland to bear any Command in our Army there 'till he had given us the utmost Assurance that he was not tainted with Mr. Molyneux's Opinions However let me tell him that a Supream Authority ought not to be set upon at the Rate he does And now I will take leave to shew the Lords and Gentlemen of Ireland some of the ill Consequences that may attend them if Mr. Molyneux's Positions should gain an intire Credit First If the Parliament of England should be perswaded that they ought to look upon Ireland as a Distinct Separate and Absolute Kingdom with which they have nothing to do they might not think it unreasonable for them to demand a speedy payment of all the Expences England hath been at in the many Assistances which they have given them and if they shall refuse to pay it whether it may not be just to recover our own from any Neighbour Nation by Force if we shall think our selves able to do it
that no Grant ever did or could make Ireland an Absolute Distinct Separate Kingdom and wholly Independent of England or invest it with such a supream Legislature as is inherent in the Head of the Government only which with respect to the Body of the English Empire can never reside any where else than in the King by and with the Advice and Consâ—nt of the Lords and Commons of England in Parliament assembled Fifthly That the Presidents and Opinions quoted by Mr. Molyneux do not by any means assist his Argument but do most of them support mine against him And Sixthly That his Reasons and Arguments offered on one side and t'other are as little to his purpose but that the English Settlements in Ireland always were and ever must be properly accounted as a Colony of England and hath ever been by her protected and supported as such By these Principles then and no other but such as these can the English be justify'd in their Conduct towards the Irish whereas if they had been an absolute distinct independent People the former and latter Disturbances they have given us could not have been Rebellions but were just Attempts to vindicate their Rights against a People that had without Reason violated them their Lands had not been legally Forfeited but forcibly taken from them against all Iustice and Reason and the Spilling of so much of their Blood must lye heavy upon those that provok'd them to take up Arms in Defence of their just Liberties and Properties Is it not much more for your Interest then to put this matter on the right bottom upon which our Actings towards them were always grounded by considering the Irish as a People that had been subdu'd and brought into Subjection to the English Government and were united to it in the Nature of a Province of its Empire and to esteem the English that have been settled there as a Colony of England which we were oblig'd to protect and defend against any Insults and Violences offered them by the Natives For this must justly subject them to the Forfeitures and Penalties due to Rebels vindicate us in the Severities we have exercis'd upon them support you in the possession of the Estates which were taken from them and return the the Guilt of all the Blood that hath been shed in the Irish Wars upon their own Heads as being the Aggressors These things are so Obvious that I believe there are many of you that can have no good Opinion of Mr. Molyneux's Book yet I am told that there are others and some of good Rank among you that are very fond of it does indeed with respect to you carry the face of a Popular Argument and is artfully written and he that can take the Latitude of advancing his own Imaginations and mistaken Conjectures with the Confidence of Realities and Certainties suggest Falsities with the utmost Assurance and omit Material Truths may impose much upon an unwary Reader especially if be thinks what 's offer'd is for his Interest Quod volumus facile credimus But any thoughtful Man that will give himself leave to Consider it impartially will find it to be one of the weakest and most mistaken Books that ever was written with such a flourish of Language and shew of Learning and Integrity The Story of King John's being made an absolute Independent King is the main Prop on which he lays the greatest stress of his Reasoning aud yet it proves but a meer Imagination The Writers indeed of these Times do say he was made King of Ireland but it looks but like a Complement to him for the Grant it self shews plainly that 't was but feudatory Donation and that 't was never intended to make him an Independent King because he was limited to use no higher Stile than that of Lord of Ireland Mr. Molyneux also deals very unfairly in many other particulars and it appears that he had more regard to the point he contests than to discover the genuine Truth of the matter for he hath not only stretch'd in favour of his Argument beyond what any Authorities can warrant but he has also conceal'd divers obvious Instances that make against him of which I shall observe to you some Particulars which have occur'd to me since I had gone through with my Answer I have accidentally met with Sir Richard Bolton's Statutes which he quotes wherein I Observe that there are several Acts that declare in most express Words that the Kingdom of Ireland is appending united knit and a Member rightfully belonging to the Imperial Crown of England And yet Mr. Molyneux observes this to us with such a Diminution as represents it but as it were united and which he conceives effects no more than that Ireland shall not be alienâ—d or separated from the King of England c. but I cannot imagine that he is so ignorant of our Constitution as not to know that we can have no Notion of uniting or annexing to the Imperial Crown of England as appropriated to the King's Person distinct from the Kingdom which if it can be sence any where else is yet perfect Nonsence in England But I have met with one Prevarication so notorious that I must not omit shewing it Mr. Molynex in page 41. hath these words For the Dominion and Regality of Ireland was wholly and separately vested in King Iohn being absolutely granted unto him without any Reservation And he being created King in the Parliament at Oxford under the Style and Title of Lord of Ireland enjoy'd all manner of Kingly Jurisdiction Preheminence and Authority Royal belonging to the Imperial State and Majesty of a King as are the express words of the Irish Statute 33 H. 8. cap. 1. I must confess that I believ'd that this Statute had been as express in the matter as he delivers it but 't is so far from it that there is no mention made of King John or his Grant in it The words of the Act are Forasmuch as the King our most gracious Sovereign Lord and his Grace's most noble Progenitors Kings of England have been Lords of this Land of Ireland having all manner of Kingly Jurisdiction Power Preheminencies and Authority Royal belonging or appertaining to the Royal Estate and Majesty of a King by the Names of Lord of Ireland We deny not that King Henry the Eighth's Progenitors the Kings of England had this Royal Sovereign Authority over Ireland but his Insinuation that John had it before he was King of England is plainly false and not warrantable by this Statute Again he mightily imposes upon the World in â—sserâ—ing That before the Year 1641. there was no Statute made in England introductory of a New Law c. but those which he had before-mentioned And though while I am dealing with Mr. Molyneux I confine my self to mention no Authorities but his own yet I will here presume for a proof of his Ignorance or Disingenuity to name some other old Acts binding Ireland which have been
done in Parliament and I think if I should stop here and give my self no further trouble to trace him through the rest of his tedious tho' shallow Arguments all impartial People would be satisfied in these Four Points That the ancient Irish did intirely submit their Nation to become a Member of and be united to the English Empire That the Parliamentary Authority of England hath ever obtain'd over all the parts of its Dominions That they have exercis'd this Authority over Ireland even from its first Union to this Kingdom and That the Irish understood their Submission in this sense and paid Obedience to this Act of an English Parliament without regret But since I have undertaken it I must go through with him This Creation however as barely mention'd by him is not Authority enough for Mr. Molyneux to conclude positively that By this Donation Ireland was most eminently set apart again he seems then to grant that 't was at first united as a â—â—parate and distinct Kingdom by it self from the Kingdom of England He produces no Record for this nor any authentick Authority what he offers like Proof for this perfect separate Regality is only the granting Charters whilst his Father and Brother were reigning but that 's no more than what hath been commonly practic'd by other Feudatorys and proves nothing of Iohn's having an absolute independent Jurisdiction But he attempts further and tells us The very express words of the Irish Statute 33 Hen. 8th c. 1. by which the Style of Dominus was chang'd to that of Rex Hiberniae are And he meaning K. Iohn being created King in the Parliament at Oxford under the Stile and Title of Lord of Ireland enjoy'd all manner of Kingly Iurisdiction Preheminence and Authority Royal belonging unto the Imperial State and Majesty of a King Hitherto I have not disputed any of the Authorities quoted by Mr. Molyneux but here he must Pardon me if I tell him that if this will pass for an Authority in Ireland yet it will not with us 'T is only an Irish Act of Parliament made as late as Henry the 8th's time that presumes that K. Iohn did enjoy all manner of Kingly Jurisdiction c. without referring to any Record that was extant for proving that Assertion So that this Irish Act of Parliament is at most but a Presumptive Authority and therefore he ought not to think that we can be so far impos'd upon as without better Proof than so saying to grant that King Henry the second and King Richard the first disclaim'd all Title to the Dominion and Regality of Ireland as if the same had been absolutely without any reservation vested in King Iohn Besides even this Act of Parliament does not use the words Absolute and Independent But after all though none of these Proofs will stand good on Mr. Molyneux's side I 'le shew him that this whole Business undeniably proves on t'other side â—hat King Iohn could at best be made no more by this Donation than a Feudatory Kingly Lord as I have said before Mr. Molyneux hath told us that King Iohn in his Charters could not use any higher stile than that of Lord of Ireland can any Body believe that a Prince wholly and seperately vested in a Dominion and Regality absolutely granted unto him without any Reservation as he says King Iohn was would content himself with any lower Title than that of King unless he had been limited in it by a Superiour Authority and was not that like to be this Act of Parliament Can an Act of Parliament be said to make a King absolute and Indedendent when at the same time it keeps a reservation of the Title Is not this an Evident Demonstration that they would not suffer him to be Independent but that they laid that restraint upon him to shew that they would always retain in England the Supream Imperial Power over Ireland How does Mr. Molyneux know what Homage Rent or other Reservations were made doubtless all the Records touching it are lost and I presume he has nothing stronger for this positive Assertion of his than the Old Historians Gir. Cambrensis Rog. Hoveden Mat. Paris c. and they don't make out this Absolute Independent Title without any manner of Reservation Is it Sense to think that a People should conquer or intirely subdue a Countrey to themselves plant a Colony there and then but five years after give it clear away again never to have any thing more to do with it I would fain know what Regalia were granted to this absolute King The Kings in Man may wear a Leaden Crown I 'm afraid King Iohn was still but a Lord in that respect too and that he had no Crown at all given him else sure Mr. Molyneux if he could have found any would have told us on 't But what 's worse than all this is it possible for one and the same Man to be both an Independent King and a Subject at one and the same time It seems this Donation was not so absolute but that he was still to continue a Subject as indeed Feudatories must to the Sovereignty to which they belong to Old England and after all his absolute Kingship 't was his Misfortune to be try'd by his Peers not as King of Ireland but as Earl of Morton who found him guilty of High Treason and accordingly he was condemn'd but at the Intercession of the Queen their Mother King Richard gave him his Life I doubt this was enough to loose his Independent Title to the Kingdom of Ireland for that time unless Mr. Molyneux can find him out another Creation which I believe could not be without another Act of Parliament but there happen'd to be no need on 't for as he succeeded to the Crown of England Ireland came in again well enough in our Sense Yet further to put this matter out of all doubt 't is a Maxim not to be disputed that the Authority which grants must always remain Superiour to that which receives the Grant and therefore the Feudal Law determines that Homage and Fealty is inseparably annext to all such Grants And though Mr. Molyneux professes himself very well Learn'd in The Laws of Nature and Reason and Nations and the Civil Laws of our Common-wealths yet it seems he is altogether unacquainted with this Feudal Law and if he had been but as well read in the Practice of the World as to these things he might have been convinc'd that the many Feudatory Princes still remaining in Europe are not exempted from this Dependance The Princes and Hans Towns of the Empire if they are by length of Time grown up to a higher degree of Sovereignty and do not so immediately depend upon the Emperour who in his private Capacity was but Arch-Duke of Austria c. and but one of the Eight Electoral Princes yet they are still subject to the Supream Legislature of the Empire and the Imperial Avacatoria reaches them And
thus we see that how great soever that Jurisdiction was which the King in Parliament granted to his Son Iohn he yet remain'd no more than a Subject of the Kingdom of England and was treated accordingly in his being Try'd and Condemn'd by the Laws thereof Moreover it may be noted that upon his accession to the Imperial Crown of England whatever Feudatory Royalty he had before became now merg'd and extinguisht in his own Person which by reason of it's being Head and Supream could not at the same time be capable of any Feudatory Subjection so that there was an absolute determination of the Former Grant which could not agâ—in be reviv'd but by a New Donation upon another Person I hope I have now so far remov'd this main Pillar of Mr. Molyneux's Structure that I may take the Liberty as often as I shall have Occasion hereafter to deny positively that King Iohn was ever made absolute King of Ireland without any Dependance on England Here Mr. Molyneux had brought his Argument up to a pitch and concluded us under a perfect real Seperation and thus he puts it upon us let us suppose That King Richard had left Issue whose Progeny had governed England and King John 's Progeny had governed Ireland where then had been the Subordination of Ireland to the Parliament or even to the King of England Certainly no such thing could have been then pretended But this is but a Supposition and fit for none but People of his size who take up Matters by Appearances and Presumptions and assume the Confidence from thence to be positive in their Assertions giving no allowance for the possibility of being mistaken But we need not suppose in this matter but may be confident that the Supream Authority over Ireland must always have continued in the Kingdom of England as it does at this day and he hath made nothing appear to the contrary De non apparentibus non existentibus eadem est ratio Yet I cann't but remark how he enjoys himself in this Supposition when he thought he had gain'd his Point Where then had been the Subordination if any such there be it must arise from something that followed after the descent of England to King John for by that descent England might as properly be subordinate to Ireland as the Converse because Ireland had been vested in King John twenty two Years before his accession to the Crown of England Yes and 't was the ancienter Kingdom too Is it likely that King Iohn who had not before thought so well of his Kingdom of Ireland as to make it his residence but chose rather to remain where he was but a Subject when he was now become a real King of England should be so far taken with the Fancy of the ancientest Kingdom if it were so as to put the greater and by many degrees the more powerful more pleasant and more civiliz'd Kingdom in subordination to the less which was then of no Power or Consideration in the World and that he should be better pleas'd with the Stile of Lord of Ireland and King of England than that of King of England and Lord of Ireland or is it likely that England who in that very Age had subdued Ireland and added it to its Empire should now be contented to submit it self and become subordinate to Ireland so as that the Administration of the Government there should direct the grand Affairs of England is not this perfect Jesting and Fooling with Argument But he tells us If perhaps it will be said that this Subordination of Ireland to England proceeds from Ireland 's being annext to and as it were united with the imperial Crown of England by several Acts of Parliament in both Kingdoms since King John 's time This is well acknowledged for it makes out clearly that Ireland is a Kingdom as firmly united to the Kingdom of England as the Legislature of both Kingdoms could do it If he would yet distinguish between the Imperial Crown as his words are and the Kingdom I have shewn before how there cannot be any such distinction in England But though in the former Passage of Iohn's being created an Independent King by Act of Parliament he shews himself to be quite overseen and blinded by his depending so much upon it through the rest of his Argument yet he perceives plainly that a fair Inquiry into this Annexing will not turn to account for him and therefore although he is not wanting to be very particular and exact in his Numerous Quotations of other Authorities yet here he is cautious of imparting any further Light into this matter than just to tell us there are several such Acts of Parliament both in England and Ireland Surely these English Acts might be said to be binding upon Ireland and therefore too they must be conceal'd and we shan't have one Word of them anon when he pretends to reckon up all those Statutes that the English Parliaments have made to affect Ireland And I cann't find that he meddles with it any more tho' he says that He shall enquire more fully hereafter how this operates But for the present he only tells us That he conceives little more is effected by these Statutes than that Ireland shall not be alien'd or seperated from the King of England who cann't hereby dispose of it otherwise than in Legal Succession along with England and that whoever is King of England is ipso Facto King of Ireland and the Subjects of Ireland are oblig'd to obey c. Doth not this strongly assert the Parliamentary Authority If he had said that it should not be alienated or separated from the Kingdom he had spoken English and set the matter right but if he will insist upon so fine a Conceit as to divide between the Political Capacity of the King and the Kingdom if it be not bad English is however Language that cann't be understood in England Now he tells us of King Iohn's going again into Ireland about the Twelfth year of his Reign of England where above Twenty little Irish Kings did again do Homage and Fealty to him and he constituted the English Laws and Custâ—â—s among them placing Sheriffs and other Ministers for the Administration of Iustice to the People according to the English Laws This is a further Proof of the intire Resignation and Submission of the Irish to the Government of England He goes on King Henry the Third his King Iohn's Son in the first year of his Reign granted to Ireland one or two Magna Charta's but he owns that 't was by the Advice of his English Privy Council Let it again be Observ'd that this King did not transact this Matter by any seperate Authority but did it in his Privy Council which is exactly according to our Constitution and that being the same Method in which all the Administration of the Government of the Kingdom of England was directed it shews that those Kings govern'd
their Jurisdiction be much less than that of Ireland yet it is a certain Jurisdiction so firmly establisht as that it 's held that it cannot lawfully be taken away or altered by any Power in England but the Supream Legislature and that it must stoop to and the same the Lord Chief Justice Cook says of this distinct Dominion of Ireland that notwithstanding it hath a Power Jurisdiction and Authority which is compleat within it self yet it must pay Obedience to the Supream Legislature of England whenever any Extraordinary Occasion shall make it needful for that to name it specially and therefore the Tenour of his Judgment upon this whole Matter shews that by his terming them no part of the Kingdom of England because they have such a distinct administration among themselves he does not in the least intend that they should be lookt upon so separated as to be out of all Reach of the Supream Imperial Authority of England so that in all this there appears no Inconsistency he never asserts what Mr. Molyneux assumes that the King and Parliament in Ireland is a Legislature equally as Supream as that of the King and Parliament in England and it must be very unaccountable in any one to do so who knows that all Irish Acts of Parliament must be approv'd in the Privy Council of England I 'll warrant him they 'll take care that they shall never Enact different or contrary Sanctions so that he need not from this fear the Consequence of Ireland's having two Supreams He hath one Touch more at the Lord Chief Justice Cook he quotes him saying If a King hath a Christian Kingdom by Conquest as King Henry the Second had Ireland after the Laws of England had been given them for the Government of that Country c. no succeeding King could alter the same without Parliament Which by the way seems nothing contradictory to all that Mr. Molyneux hath quoted of what he says concerning Ireland but is a farther Indication that his Opinion was always steady that the King and Parliament of England and not the King alone held the Supream Authority over Ireland And now he Hath done with this Reverend Iudge and I am very glad on 't because I doubt I have tyr'd my Reader with such an abundance that I have been forc'd to say for the Judg's Vindication but to make amends I 'll try to divert him a little by telling a short Story upon my self When I was a Boy I thought once that I had espy'd a fault in a performance of my Master's and I had the assurance to tell him on 't he first fairly convinc'd me that I had not taken the thing right and then very gravely told me with a bent Brow that 't was more like my Boyish Confidence to find Faults where none were than the Solidity of his stronger Judgment to commit such Now for Pilkington's Case The King first grants a Patent for an Office in Ireland to be held by Pilkington or his Deputy but after this the same King grants the same Office to A who who sues for it and pleads an Act of Parliament in Ireland that no Person might execute any Office there but in his own Person on pain of Forfeiture he proves that Pilkington acted by a Deputy the Iudges thereupon decide in favour of A. What 's this to the Parliament of England's Jurisdiction over Ireland it shews no more than that the Judges of Ireland were of the Opinion that the Kings Letters Patents could not over-rule an Irish Act of Parliament Indeed he tells us that in the Pleadings 't was offer'd That Ireland time out of mind had been a Land separated and distinct from England and ruled and governed by its own Customs that they could call Parliaments within themselves c. It seems two of the five Judges held this Prescription void and thô I will not dispute as it seems they did about the Word Prescription yet 't is well known that what Jurisdiction they had was granted them by the Supream Authority of England and I know no Body denies it them only we cann't admit them to strain it beyond what was ever intended It says further that Two of the Iudges affirm'd and the other three did not deny that a Tax granted in England could not affect Ireland except it be approv'd in the Parliament in Ireland This is not what we Contest about I never heard that England did ever raise Taxes upon any Members of her Empire without the Consent of their Representatives As for the Merchants of Waterford's Case we have both said enough to that already That of the Prior of Lanthony in Wales comes next He sues the Prior of Mollingar in Ireland for an Arrear of an Annuity and obtains Iudgment against him both in the Common-Pleas and Kings-Bench in Ireland Mollingar Appeals to the Parliament in Ireland and they Revers'd both Iudgments upon this Lanthony removes all into the King's Bench in England but that Court would not meddle in it as having no Power over what had pass'd in the Parliament of Ireland Lastly He Appeal'd to the Parliament of England and it does not appear that they did any thing in it What of all this The Court of King's-Bench in England although they had Authority to determine upon Matters brought before them by Writ of Error out of Ireland yet they did not believe they had any Power over the Parliament of Ireland Doubtless they were in the right but it seems 't was then believ'd that the English Parliament had else Lanthony had never Petition'd but it does not appear that they did any thing upon this Appeal the Petition only being entered at the end of the Roll Why that 's a plain Sign that 't was the very last thing of the Session and the Parliament was Dissolv'd Prorogu'd or something before they could go upon it or perhaps the Matter was agreed or the Prior's dead before next Sessions or fifty Reasons more that might be offer'd against his sleeveless Suggestion That the Parliament of England did not think themselves to have a Right to enquire into this Matter because nothing more than the Petition is found upon Record but I 'll tell him a better Reason of our side 't is not probable that they would have receiv'd the Petition if they did not believe they had Right to decide upon it The next thing is about the Acts of Recognition and this he begins with an ingenious Confession That the Kingdom of Ireland is inseparably annext to the Imperial Crown of England and the Obligation their Legislature lies under by Poyning's Act makes this Tye indissoluble This is enough to make out all our Pretensions upon them 't is strange to see a Man writing a Book against the Natural Consequences when yet he so easily agrees upon the Premises The Imperial Crown of England denotes the Supream Authority of the Kingdom the Material Crown is but a Badge of this
Authority and is given to the King not as his own separate Propriety but as an Ensign of the Authority which he enjoys as Head of the Kigdom if any Body should steal this Material Crown and break it to pieces as Bloud did the Supream Authority of the King and Kingdom remains entire and inviolated This Supream Authority always resides in the Legislature which in our Constitution is inseparably vested in the King Lords and Commons there can be no annexing to the Imperial Crown of England distinct from the Supream Imperial Authority of the Kingdom if any Territory shall be annext to this Imperial Crown it must become a Member of the Empire otherwise 't is no annexing and because there can be but one Supream Legislature every Member or part of the Empire must be in some Subordination to that Supream Legislature whatsoever other Jurisdiction it may retain as necessary to its own particular Regulations within it self otherwise it can be no Member but must remain a perfect Body of it self I think these are Positions that won't easily be disprov'd and we have a compleat Instance of them in the Kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland as they stand related to England Scotland is an ancient distinct and saving the old Pretensions of England upon them independent Kingdom hath an Imperial Crown of its own worn by a long Succession of Kings whose Posterity came to inherit the Kingdom of England and remove their Seat hither yet 't was not in their Power to annex the Kingdoms without their Joint Consent so that they remain an intire Sovereign Kingdom govern'd according to their own Constitution without any Subordination to England to this day and therefore in the late Happy Revolution when King William and Queen Mary had obtain'd the intire possession of the Crown of England they did not pretend to that of Scotland 'till the States of that Kingdom had conferr'd it upon them by a free Election On the contrary Ireland whatever it was anciently was no intire Kingdom when the English first took Possession of it but divided into many Jurisdictions under Petty Princes it had never any Diadem or Ensign of Royalty that ever I could hear of it was entirely subdued and brought under the English Government by Conquest as all Authors except Mr. Molyneux agree it was brought into the form of a Kingdom and afterwards had that Title conferr'd upon it and was endow'd with Laws and a Constitution of Government by the Authority of England who from the Beginning reserv'd and exercis'd a Superiority over them and Mr. Molyneux being quite mistaken in the Grant made to King Iohn it was never separated from being a Member of the Empire of England but even as Mr. Molyneux confesses remains annext to it to this day The Supream Legislature of England then in being presented the Title of it to King William and Queen Mary at the same time with that of England without asking the leave of the People of Ireland in like manner they have proclaim'd all the English Kings with that Title at their first Accession and have as he owns concluded Ireland in all Acts of Recognition What if the Parliaments of Ireland have also recogniz'd 't was but to own their Allegiance our Kings were as effectually vested in the Dominion over Ireland before by the Authority of England and double doing in such a Case can be no harm neither can this be any Argument to prove Their having all Iurisdiction to an Absolute Kingdom belonging or that they are not subordinate to any Legislative Authority on Earth Now he tells us As the Civil State of Ireland is thus absolute within it self likewise so is the Ecclesiastical and just so it is but that is without any absoluteness in either The multitude of the Native Irish and the Old English were doubtless very averse to the Establishment of the Reformed Religion because they have continued Româ—n Catholicks ever since and yet this Reformation was begun there by no other Authority than an Order of the King and Council in England to the Lord Deputy to Cause the Scriptures and the Common Prayers to be us'd there in the English Tongue from whence 't is evident that they did not then think their own Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction so absolute as that they could oppose it to the Authority of England He quotes a Record out of Reyley That Edward the Second upon a Motion of his Parliament at Westminster had sent his Letters Patents to the Lord Iustice of Ireland that he should Order that the Irish might enjoy the Laws of England concerning Life and Member From whence he infers That the Parliament did not then think that they had Iurisdiction in Ireland otherwise they would have made a Law themselves to this effect Can this be any more than an Instance of what I have all along said that our Parliaments have always been willing to leave the Peopâ—e of Ireland as much as possible to the Exercise of their own Form of Government in Matters relating to themselves and not to interpose their own Supream Authority but upon Extraordinary Occasions wherein the Welfare of the whole was concerned But can it be any Argument that they thought they had no such Authority because they did not think â—it on this Occasion to use it Mr. Molyneux finds that the lying of a Writ of Error from the King's Bench in England on a Judgment given in the King's Bench in Ireland lyes heavy upon him and therefore he labours mightily and turns it every way to get rid on 't first he says 't is The Opinion of several Learned in the Laws of Ireland that this is founded on an Act of Parliament in Ireland which is lost How Learned soever this Opinion may be I am sure 't is not very Judiciously offer'd here for no Body will believe that the Legislature of a Kingdom that thought it self absolute could do so foolish a thing as to make a Law themselves that should put them under the Administration of another Kingdom in so high a point as the Controuling all their Judicatures and therefore if ever they made such an Act of Parliament 't is not to be doubted but that at that time they were very sensible that whatsoever Authority they had among themselves was all deriv'd from and in perpetual Subordination to the Supream Authority of England Indeed he comes and says after That this Suit is made to the King only the matter lies altogether before him and the Party complaining applyes to no part of the Political Government of England for Redress but to the King of Ireland only who is in England That the King only is sued to the Law books make plain c. for above two Pages Fine very fine spun are these Arguments but withal so extream â—light that they won't hang together If the King was ever us'd to â—it there in Person was there not always four English Judges constituted in that Court whom
the King in those days could not remove at pleasure who had Authority to judge whether the King were present or absent Or does he think that when an Irish Appeal came before them these Judges could not meddle in it or if they did whilst the King was present they were all on a Suddain swallowed up or consubstantiated into the King or if they acted in his absence an Irish Cause would immediately transubstantiate them all four into the real presence of one King of Ireland in his proper Person But if this should be too gross to put upon Mr. Molyneux we must e'en resolve it t'other way and conclude that he thinks the Judges and Courts of Judicature are no part of the Political Government of England He hath abundance of other pretty Conceits how and which way this Business of the Writ of Error might come about and in what sense it may be thought to operate but I 'll leave him in the quiet and peaceable Enjoyment of them because I think it not worth while to trouble my self or the Reader more about them â— We may be sure he would not havâ— us to Conclude That if the King's Bâ—nch in Ireland â—e subordinate to the King's Bench in England that therefore it must follow that the Parliament of Irelaâ—d is subordinate to that of England and though as he sees we have a very good Argument for that a fortâ—ort yet what I have said before may satisfie him that we have other Demonstrations enough to assure us in the constant Subordination of that Kingdom to this besides the lying of this Writ of Error which the very Reason of the thing maugre all his Endeavours to shift it will evince that this preheminence must infallibly have been preserv'd to England from the first annexing of Ireland for after they were become obliged to be rul'd and govern'd by our Laws whether should they resort to have them explain'd but to that Authority that gave them I cann't omit observing how very pertinently He concludes this his Fifth Article with a Memorable Passage out of their Irish Statutes And that is the Act of Faculties made in â—â—â—land the 28th Hen. 8. reciting a former Act in the Praeamble of which 't is declar'd That this your Graces Realm Recognizing no Superiour but your Grace hath been and yet is free from any Subâ—ection to any Man's Laws but only such as have been devised within this Realm for the wealth of the same or to such others as by sufferance of your Grace and your Progenitors the People of the Realm have taken at their free Liberties by their own Consent and have bound themselves by long Use and Custom to the Observance of c. Now this very Declaration with the other Clauses of the said English Act is Verbatim recited in the Irish Act of Faculties Behold the mighty force of this Argument The People of England did in an Act of Parliament make a Declaration of their ancient undoubted Rights and Liberties proper and peculiar to their own Constitution The Parliament of Ireland pass the same Act there and take upon them to ape the very Words of this Declaration in their Act though the same could not be proper or rightly applicable to the Circumstances of their Constitution for the Laws given them at first from England were never devised within that Realm therefore the People of Ireland cannot be under any Subordination of the Parliament of England And now he 's come to the 6th and last Article viz. The Reasons and Arguments that may be further offered on one side and t'other in this Debate And here Mr. Molyneux opens a very diverting Scene but fitter for Ridicule and Disdain than Argument He tells us There remains another pretence or two for this Subordination to be considered and one is founded on Purchase 'T is said that vast Quantities of Treasure has been spent by England from time to time for reducing Ireland which has given them a just Title at least to the Lands of the Rebels and to the Absolute Disposal thereof in their Parliament according to the Examples in Forty One and the late Rebellion in this Reign I am sorry that he has so little sense of the great Benefit which the Protestants of Ireland have receiv'd by the interposing of the English Power in their Favour 'T is not to be disputed that the late King Iames had all the Haereditary Right that was entail'd upon their Independent as he terms him King Iohn and although he had Abdicated the Crown of England yet by this Gentleman's Notions he had still an undoubted Title to the Kingdom of Ireland which he came to possess by the assistance of a very considerable Power from France and if Mr. Molyneux's Doctrine be sound could any body then blame the Irish and Old English of his own Religion to join with him in the asserting his ancient Right to that Kingdom For my own part I must own that I know no other Reason that can justifie us in our engaging in that War for the Recovery of Ireland than the Old English Principle that Ireland was our own as an inseparable Member of the English Empire and I am sure all the English Protestants of Ireland were then glad to have us assert that Right or else their fair Estates in that Country must have left the greatest part of them to go a Begging at this day unless perhaps they could have reconcil'd themselves by turning Papists it being well known that they were so far from valuing themselves upon their own Strength that excepting that Gallant and Resolute Resistance made by the People of the North at London-Derry and Inniskilling they gave up all and generally meaning the People of Note fled to England though many are of the Opinion that they might have done more for themselves than they did if they had staid Thus were their Estates lost to them beyond hopes of Recovery but by the strength of England Indeed when we had sent over an Army some of them went back again and together with those that remain'd in Ireland did expose themselves and acted a fair part in the War yet all they were able to do was so inconsiderable in regard of the whole Management of the War that I believe it won't be pretended that we were made Masters of Ireland one day the sooner for their help The vast Charge of an Army Aâ—ms Artillery Ammunition Provision Shipping c. all this have we born and paid for by raising Taxes upon our own Estates when we knew they were not able to Contribute any thing themselves and after all this what of a Man can have the Impudence to dispute with us whether we have any Right to the forfeited Estates in Ireland If the Kingdom of England hath no just Jurisdiction over Ireland I will affirm that the Irish were in no Rebellion but were in the Exercise of the Natural Allegiance and in the Discharge of that Duty which
they ow'd to their Lawful King there was no Act of their Parliament to declare King Iames abdicated and the Throne vacant neither indeed was there any pretence for it because he came and was actually present among them and in the full Exercise of his de facto Kingly Power as to them But as I said before the People of England having in their Convention which at that time was the Representative of the Nation conferr'd the Crown of England and Ireland and all other Territories and Dominions belonging to the English Empire upon King William and Queen Mary the Kingdom of Ireland as a Member of the English Body was as much bound to submit to that Revolution as New-England or any of the rest of our Colonies and therefore the Opposition made by the Irish against it was a perfect Rebellion and render'd them liable to all the Pains and Penalties which the Municipal Laws of the Kingdom could inflict upon Rebels This then justly forfeited their Estates to the King as he is the Head but not as in any separate Capacity from the Kingdom of England We know however what Authority the King hath to dispose of these Estates to such as may have deserv'd well and if the Parliament of England shall acquiesce therein that 's no Argument that therefore they have no Authority to intermeddle in that Matter and their former practice as he confesses hath shewn the contrary He owns that In a War the Estates of the Unjust Opposers should go to repair the Damage that is done but theirs do not resemble the Common Case of Wars between two Forreign Enemies but are rather Rebellions or Intestine Commotions And so we say But he continues If the Protestants of Ireland by the Assistance of their Brethren of England and their Purse do prove Victorious A fine Turn indeed the Matter of Fact is that the Army of England prov'd Victorious and that without any thing that might reasonable be call'd Assistance from their Brethren as he though somewhat assumingly in this case calls themselves the Protestants of Ireland and yet forsooth the Victory must be theirs No Man of Modesty as this Gentleman would bespeak himself could dare to put upon the World at this rate Well but he tells us The People of England ought to be fully repaid but then the manner of their Payment and in what way it shall be levyed ought to be left to the People of Ireland in Parliament Assembled He owns the Debt and that we ought to be paid but how and which way and when ought to be left to them a pretty New-fashion'd Priviledge this Gentleman is inventing for his Country provided they own the Debt the Creditor must be contented without any Security without any Terms and consequently without any Interest how long soever he may be kept out of his Money he ought to leave all that to the Good Will and Pleasure of his Honest Debtor but I believe Mr. Molyneux would be loth to pass for such a Fool in his own way of Dealing in the World and sure he must measure us by an Irish Understanding if he thinks this sort of Reasoning will go down with us He goes on And so it was after the Rebellion of Forty One that 's a Mistake though it deserves a harder Word for he tells us The Adventurers had several Acts of Parliament made in England for their reimbursing by disposing to them the Rebels Lands so that it was not then left at the Discretion of the People of Ireland But after all it was thought reasonable that the Parliament of Ireland should do this in their own way and therefore the Acts of Settlement and Explanation made all the former English Acts of no force or at least did very much alter them in many particulars Here'tis plain that Acts of Parliament were made in England for disposing the forfeited Estates of Ireland which were be liev'd to be of Validity and a sufficient Security to the Adventurers at the time when they were made otherwise People would not have advanc'd their Money upon them and though I am no Lawyer and don't think it concerns me to look after those Acts yet from the Reason of the thing I cann't believe that those Persons that advanc'd this Money could afterwards be legally depriv'd of the Interests granted them by those English Acts by any after Authority of an Irish Parliament If any were I would advise them yet to sâ—e to an English Parliament for Relief 'T is true there had happen'd a Revolution and perhaps some People that had those Lands might be lookt upon as under Delinquencies to the Government that then came to be uppermost and we know that some of the Irish Papists were very strangely restor'd to their Estates and the Possessors put out yet if some Injustice was done at such a time when many things were carried by Extreams nothing will prove an invalidating of those English Statutes less than either a total Repeal of them and that he seems not to stand upon here though he suggested it in another place for he only says they were made of no force or at least were very much alter'd in many particulars which is a certain Sign they were not repeal'd Or to shew that they were so altered as to take away all the Lands that were possess'd by any of those Adventurers or their Descendents by Virtue of those Acts of Parliament If that cann't be made out which sure he won't pretend to it will remain that those English Acts of Parliament did really dispose of the Rebels Lands in Ireland and if there be any after Settling or Confirming them to the Safety of the Proprietors by Act of Parliament in Ireland that cannot impeach the Authority of the first Acts. Well he still allows That we shall be repaid our Expences all they desire is that in preservation of their own Rights and Liberties they may do it in their own Methods regularly in their own Parliaments And if the Reimâ—ursment be all that England Stands on what availeth it whether it be done this way or that way so it be done A pretty loose way of Talking this he speaks as confidently of reimbursing us as if that were a small matter and they had this way and that way ways enough to do it and they are so well prepar'd that they desire nothing else but Liberty to let them do it in their own methods I am sorry we han't heard one word like this offer'd in their Parliaments 't would have lookt much better from them than from Mr. Molynellx to have taken Notice of this great Debt to England and to have at least declar'd their Intent of paying it but he is a Member and perhaps he knows their Minds better than I do and because he proposes so fairly I am willing to strike a Bargain with him if he 'll undertake on the Behalf of Ireland I 'll undertake on t the part of England that