amongst them to such a perfect conformitie to their president In that they permit no man whatsoever to be a member in any of their Churches or partake with them in any Church-fellowship unlesse he exactly enter in their way of entring and walke in their order Nor will owne others as Sister-Churches that differ from them though but in some things in Church Discipline All which to be so will after appeare Is not this really a more rigid imposition of their pattern then any Church ever used in urging of their Plat-forme and that the more insufferable because in other Churches the rule is agreed upon and for the time at least fixed and publikely held forth in writing so that a man may understand before-hand what he binds himselfe unto and what he may looke for afterwards Whereas our brethrens course is held forth obscurely in practise only and how long that practise will continue uniforme in all their Churches yea or in any one of them he can have no assurance nor how often or how farre they may change he cannot tell so that he makes but a blinde bargaine at the best Obj. There is a Plat-forme sent over lately called The way of the Churches in N. E. Answ True but 1. that is but a meere relation of what hitherto they have practised without any obligation by vertue of any agreement to the same courses hereafter 2. It s compiled by one particular man not consented to by the rest as from thence we are informed and therefore warned by some of themselves so to look at it and no otherwise inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull at least so as to be imposed on the Churches as J. W. in ans to 10. Q. implieth where he saith We all walke in the same way but not by any publike and solemne agreement as prescribing to any what to doe See the Ans to 32. q. p. 63. 64. at large CHAP. II. Of the true visible Church of Christ in generall and the bounds thereof 1. THey currantly hold that there is no visible Church of Christ now in the dayes of the Gospell but a particular Church which may consist of a very small number as d Though it were granted that-there is now no visible church indued with power of Govern and in which Church Ordinances may bee administred for of such onely vve here speake but particular yet it may be a Quare 1. Whether so few as 7.8 or 9. may make up such a compleat organicall body fitted for exercise of Church power For suppose one of the 7. or 8. members of this Church offend his brother the brother offended admonisheth him he denies it one or two more of them must be called in to witnesse it yet he relents not one or two more yet must be joyned to the first the party offended to joyn in the second admonition yet still he is obstinate novv the matter should be brought to the Church who must be another company from the former for they are all plaintiffes or witnesses and therefore cannot be judges in the cause Also that Church must be in reason a greater body and of higher authoritie then the former but in this small number of 7. or 8. where will such a Church be found Therefore in a Church consisting but of 7. 8. or 9. no censure can passe much lesse any other Church act be sped Againe how can so few either imploy or ordinarily maintaine officers of so many sorts as themselves hold necessaried in every Church and if they cannot have officers how should they have Church Ordinances regularly 2. It may be a quaere whether this particular Church may lawfully be no more in number then one only Congregation since the Apostles Churches most at least if not all consisted of so many thousands as possibly could not meet all conveniently together in the same place and at the same times for all Gods publike Worship to Edification For which see more in Master Rutherfords and Master Bals late Treatises Neither doe we ever read of any more Churches in one place or citie and the neighbourhood but one which though multiplyed never so much yet was never subdivided into more Churches then one yet might be and were so many as possibly could not meet together in one congregation for Worship unlesse both the place were very spacious which usually they then had not withall the Minister that did officiate had both a bodie of brasse and voice like a Trumpet Men of ordinary strength not being able to speake audibly to above two or three thousand at the most and most men not to one Much lesse can half so many communicate at the Lords Table at once Besides how will ever any competent number in countrey villages and places lesse populous be ever joyned together into one Church especially if we be so curious in choice of our members as our N. E. brethren are Surely we must either take such inconsiderable numbers as they doe and as can neither imploy nor maintaine Church-officers which would bring with it unsufferable inconveniences or else they must be fetched from places so far distant as must force them either to travell far from their severall abodes to the same meeting place for worship Winter and Summer or else many of them to be without all Church-Ordinances or to enjoy them rarely the former of which is oppressive to their bodies the later injurious to their souls neither of them seemes sutable to the goodnesse and wisedome of God who as 't is said of the Sabbath hath made Church-ordinances for man not man for Church-ordinances But I intend no dispute I only propound my doubts 7.8 or 9. persons but may not exceed the number of so many as conveniently may and ordinarily doe meet together in one Congregation in the same place and at the same times for the solemne worship of God to their mutuall edification Ans to 32. q. p. 9. 10. 43. Cott. cat p. 1. Ans to 9. Pos p. 62. R. M. to W. R. H. W. to Master B. See Johns plea p. 250. Rob. Apol. p. 12. Rob. justif p. 107. 108. 111. 2. Therefore they deny all e True in such sence as the Jewish church was For they had a place of Nationall meeting the Temple a nationall worship in the sacrifices nationall officers the Priests and therefore at certaine times all the nation representatively in the males came up to that place and worship But though not in that yet in some other sense may be admitted both a Nationall Church and Provinciall yea and Diocesan too as a Domesticall Church Rom. 16.5 Philem. 2. As all the scattered Jewish Churches are called one flock 1 Pet. 5.2 and all the Gentilish Christian Churches present were called one little Sister Cant. 8.8 And the Jewish Christian Churches yet to come are called one Bride Revel 19.7 And the Scriptures oft speake of many Churches or all as one in the singular number 1 Cor. 10.32 Ephes 3.10 Gal.
execute all Ecclesiasticall duties and offices t Hereby it comes to passe that because oft-times their Churches are long without Ministers that they are also long without Sacraments both the Lords Supper for the elder people and Baptisme for their infants Sacraments only excepted by meere lay men that neither are nor perhaps ever shall be officers in the Church 5. This Church being thus invested with all church-Church-power deriveth part thereof upon her officers viz. so much as she cannot conveniently execute her selfe and the rest she keeps still in her own hands and executes accordingly Ans to 32. q. p. 57. R. M. to W. R. ‑ R. M. to E. B. p. 4. Barr. Disc p. 223. 6. The officers have no power in Church matters but what the Church deriveth on them and which she may revoke and resume unto her selfe if she conceive they doe not use it well Ibid. And therefore she may call them to account for their actions though they were even Apostles themselves J. Cott. on 5. viall p. 10. 7. The officers are all but the Churches u Where saith the Scripture that the Church should rule her officers and the officers obey the church we find that officers are called rulers and people are commanded to obey them in the Lord frequently 1 Tim. 5.19 Heb. 13.17 but the other we never find We find indeed the Apostles call themselves the servants of the Church as Christ also made himselfe servant unto all but that is not to be understood properly but metaphorically and by way of some similitude unto servants who it good do seek their masters good and are for their profit not their own so did Christ and all the Apostles seek the Churches good not their own and so all Christians are commanded to serve each other in love But we may not thence conclude that therefore every Christian is in peoprietie to be anothers servant for then who should be master much lesse that the Apostles were properly the servants of the Church who gave rules to the Church what to doe and how to walk but received none from the Church least of all that Christ was so who both was and is the head of that body and King of that Kingdome We read also that Ministers are to do the acts of their ministerie in the Name of Christ and by his power 1 Cor. 5.4 Matth. 28.19 Mat. 7.22 But that they act in the name of the Church or by the power of the Church such phrases we do not reade them and therefore we do not beleeve them servants in proprietie of speech and she is the mistresse the queene In all things she hath the power of decreeing and they with her as others the meanest members of the Societie but as Ministers so they are only as her mouth to speake and her hand to act what she decrees doing all things for her by her power and in her name Ibid. Mr N. to W. R. ‑ R. M. to W. R. Rob. Apol. p. 49. Rob. justif p. 121 122 138 166 178 180 185 303 322. 8. The x And this were well too if this service of the Church were reserved only and intirely to the officers but alas this is but coÌ„mon to them with other members For if either the officers be not or be absent or refuse through scruple of conscience perhaps to act according to their mind they will and they hold they lawfully may call forth any other member whom they judge fit and enable him with their power to doe all that which their officers should have done Sacraments only excepted acts which they ascribe unto the officers are such as these viz. 1. To declare unto their people the mind of God in any matter to advise counsell exhort reprove c. 2. To moderate in Church meetings that order may be observed by propounding of things to be debated gathering of voyces pronouncing the sentence accordingly 3. To execute all the Churches decrees in admission of members ordination of ministers admonition excommunication c. Ans to 32. q. p. 57. Cott. cat p. 3 10. Cott. on viall 5. p. 9 10. Rob. justif p. 9 111 114 116 121. Cannes necess of separation p. 135. 9. y This body is all eye and all tongue no diversity of members all governours none to be governed All teachers contrary to the Apostles rule Are all teachers 1 Cor 12. â—9 And if their reasons for this be well examined it will appeare they make as much for women to rule as men No marvell then if this be so that they complaine in print and otherwise that Ministers are slighted amongst them yea trampled upon by some Cott. on vial second p. 24. Master H. to S. A. They professe to condemne Morellian and popular Government but what can be more popular then this wherein all have equall power to decree and any of them may be used to act as well as the officers and the officers are used as meer servants to the body which is the Mistressâ— At most they are but as the Speaker in the house of Parliament or as a Moderator in a Synod which rule not but are rather ruled Every member of the Societie that is of yeares except women hath equall power with other even with the ministers themselves as they conceive in propounding debating objecting answering and in judicially decreeing and giving sentence in all matters of the Church whether pertaining to faith or manners doctrine or practise whatsoever W. T. to P. H. ‑ Mr W. letter to a friend ‑ Ans to 32. q. p. 44. Barr. refut of Giff. p. 81. and in his Discov p. 36 38 125 223. Rob. justif p. 9 111 121. Sions royall Prerog Preface 10. And therefore although the officers may lawfully prepare matters in private for the Churches hearing yet they hold all things ought to have a full publike debate in the z This popular government makes good store of work both for Ministers and people especially if the body be numerous as the Apostolicall Churches were and ours ought to be if conveniently they may and if they must all conveene in one Congregation to he are examine and debate all matters till all be satisfied and brought to one unanimous vote It will not be one houre or two in a weeke nor in every day of the weeke nor searce all the whole weeks time that will suffice to finish all businesses that may fall out And what time shall the Ministers then have for studie and other duties or the people to follow their worldly callinge This course seemes neither agreeable to the wisedome of God nor profitable to the weale of the Church Besides the time of keeping their courts on the Sabbath day seemes many wayes inconvenient It must needs tire men out both Ministers and people make them forgetfull of what they have heard neglective of private and domesticall duties fill their heads and tongues full of worldly discourses and their hearts of carnall passions and distempers
Teachers office yet in practise they usually confound them both Pastour and Teacher equally teaching and equally applying both the Word and Seales without any difference And either of them usually supplying the place of both in divers of their Churches which are not furnished with both See J. C. his Sermons on Revel and other texts for proof of this Besides what we have by others report 8. They hold the officers so called and made by this Church are officers onely in and unto this particular Church that hath so called them And bound onely to minister to that and the members thereof and to none other So that the Pastors and Teachers thereof may lawfully doe no p Yet their Ministers frequently administer the Sacraments to the members of other Churches then their own They will answer that is done by vertue of the communion of Churches I reply But this latter rule quite overthroweth the former and all the reasons they bring for it which some perceiving question this rule of communion of Churches others to maintain the former have invented a power in every particular Church and Minister to transfer their own power over to another Church and Minister pro tempore to administer the Seales yea and censures too to any of their members so that translation be formally done as before Chap. 10. If there can be no act valid where there is no power Whether ministeriall acts done by a minister in and unto another Church be not null and voide which if they be then have we millions of persons of age unbaptized to this very day ministeriall act whatsoever in or unto any other Church or the members thereof then their own Ans to 32. q. p. 11 15 70. Ans to 9. Pos p. 64 67 70 76 78. Apol. p. 14 26 29 38. Rob. justif p. 317 318 335. 9. They grant indeed that Ministers may preach unto and pray with other Churches and their members because these are properly no ministeriall acts Onely the administration of the q Preaching and Baptizing were wont to be joyned together Matth. 28. And the Word and Prayer to be counted chiefe imployments of the Ministers Act. 6. yea Preaching rather then Sacraments 1 Cor. 1. But it is the nature of popular government to incroach upon all or most of the rights of the ministerie which must either have nothing to doe or but what the people will allow them and lend them their power for to do Alas poore Ministers it seemes it is their destinie ever to be servants if good yea slaves and foot-stools Hitherto they have been troden under foot by the Prelates and now they must be by their people Sacraments with them are properly ministeriall and therefore belong onely to the Ministers All other acts are common to other members either by vertue of their gifts and ex communi officio charitatis or by the power of the Keyes which they have received in common with that Church of which they are members or by a temporarie deputation from the same Ans to 9. Pos p. 78. Rob. justif p. 195. 10. They hold that a Ministers calling lives and dyes with his union unto and disuniting from that particular Church wherein and whereby he was so called as before So that if a Minister lawfully chosen and ordained in one place shall remove upon never so just and necessary grounds to another Congregation He is thereby divested of his former Ministerie and now become as a meere private man again unlesse and untill he shall be called and so created again by the same or some other Congregation In which case he is not only to be elected anew but also to be ordained anew by the imposition of the hands perhaps of some meere private man or men as if he had never been ordained before And so toties quoties Ans to 32. q. p. 69 70. Ans to 9. Pos p. 67 77. J. W. ans to 10. quest Rob. justif p. 317. 11. They hold the Ministers are but the Churches servants her mouth by whom she speakes and hands whereby she acts And therefore though they meet together to consult of matters for the good of the Churches or to prepare matters for the Churches hearing yet in point of Government they can r Yet Mr̄ P. tels us that the Ministers have there agreed amongst themselves that none of them shall preach any doctrine that is not commonly received amongst them till he have first communicated it with the test of the Ministers And what 's this but in effect a compound Presbyterie ruling without peoples votes and also a Canon made by common consent and imposed both contrary to their own principles decree act or execute ſ They call them rulers and tell us they have great power of Government but shew us nothing that they may doe except Administration of Sacraments which others may not as lawfully doe as they unlesse they will say as Rob justif p. 116. that Ministers rule consists in serving the Church and the people obey their Ministers in using their service which is most absurd in reason and contradictious to it self nothing but what the Church doth dictate and direct Ans to 32. q. p. 57. Rob. Apol. p. 49. Sions royall Prerog p. 26 20. 12. Ministers they hold are onely Ministers of Churches already gathered which are all supposed to be already reall Saints effectually called So that the end and work of the office of Ministers and their Ministerie is onely the confirmation and building up of men already converted and inchurched Nor are they bound by vertue of their office to attend unto the work of t Thus the Conversion of sinners which is the crowne of Ministers Calling 1 Cor. 4.15 1 Thes 2. ult is pulled off their heads and put on the head of every gifted brother and why not sister too since such may possibly convert also and if they may convert belike they may consirme as well and so they may take all For what then hath the Minister left him to doe by office But if this were so it would follow 1. That a Minister of a Church need not by office preach some Doctrines viz. the Doctrines of the beginnings of Christ at least not in some manner of teaching them whence it is that spire have held that the Minister is to apply himselfe in all his Sermons to the members and not to them that are without the rest of the members are to doe that in their prophecying N. P. 2. That Ministers being fixed to particular charges to which they ovve themselves and all that they can possibly doe are thereby bound out from labouring in the worke of conversion of others at all it being both without the compasse of their calling by this doctrine and beyond the possibilitie of their povver too 3. And therefore that either men unconverted must so continue and perish in their sins for want of some body to seek and bring them home Or else men gifted that
doubter may be satisfied or the Minister reduced and both without any molestation or scandall to the people or repreach to the Minister Besides who must be judge in such a case must the injudicious multitude For other judge they will not allow I meane in foro externo nor any appeale to an higher Court publikely to propound their doubts and make their objections and to argue pro and con about any matter good for edification W. T. to P. H. Ans to 32. q. p. 78. Cot. cat p. 6. Barr. discov p. 139. Johns Inq. p. 7. CHAP. XIIII Of the b Of late some of them grow shy of the word Independent H. P. in his Epistle to the Reader Some utterly renounce it Apol. Narr p. 23. But yet it s generally owned by most in the name R. M. to E. B. p. 9. Ans to 32. q p. 46 47 64 65. by all in the thing as after Ans to 32. q p. 43 44 46. independencie of one Church upon another and the Combination of severall Churches together in Classes Synods c. 1. THey grant that Churches may and ought to consult and advise one with another in any doubtfull matter incident and ought to hearken to the good advice of one another And therefore they sometimes allow combinations of divers Churches for consultation But not c They love no imperative Synods or Presbyteries but they have store of imperative Churches who may command yea compell both members and Ministers to act it may be what they like not why have not many Churches united as much power over every particular church within the union as many members united have over every person amongst themselves imperative or coercive Ans to 32. q. p. 64 65 66. Johns plea p. 251. 2. But that each particular congregationall Church is the supreme judicature whose power is absolute and imperiall and therefore may and ought to transact all things within themselves without seeking or submitting unto any authoritative concurrence of any other Churches R. M. to W. R. Cott. cat p. 12 13. Ans to 32. q. p. 44 62 64 65 66. J. W. ans to 10. quest Rob. justif p. 107 112 444. Johns plea p. 70 251. Barr. discov p. 261. 3. Therefore they hold it unlawfull for any such combinations whether in Classes i.e. compound Presbyteries or Synods provinciall nationall or others to take upon them authoritatively to determine or decree any thing in matter of doctrine or practise as intending thereby to oblige any more or others then their own persons no not in foro externo The Postscript THus at length Good Reader thou hast the summe of the Church Courses of our New England brethren even the way that so many that know it not or cannot judge of it doe so admire so desire And which themselves doe hold forth to us as the onely way of God with such superlative commendations in their Letters to us as if it were a perfect Idea of the Constitution Discipline and Government set up and exerced in and by the Apostolique Churches from point to point from the beginning till now of late me thinks they begin to abate See Mr Parkers late Letter to Mr B. printed inculcating what rare and admirable effects it hath produced amongst them impatient that any should oppose it or so much as question it yea threatning us with continuance of the sword untill we shall imbrace it See M. Peters Preface p. 1. excluding and exploding all other wayes as erroneous false wicked and savouring at least strongly of Antichristianisme But now that I have thus laid it before thee I leave it to thy judgement praying God to guide thee aright therein whether it deserve all this or no. As for my selfe I look for lashes from many hands and tongues but in patience through the help of Christ I shall possesse my soul being supported by the conscience of mine owne integritie And yet that I may somewhat rebate and take off the edge of as many mens displeasure as I may I shall crave leave of thee to adde a few words more in answere to some of the principall objections in defence of my selfe and this Narration Object It will be said perhaps by some that this Narration is false that they beleeve it not or that they have heard of others the contrary Answ I pray it may be conceived and remembred that I have not undertaken to report things as there they really are which I could not doe unlesse I had been an eye witnesse but to collect their own reports of things scattered here and there in their own Papers and present them joyntly together to thy view so that whether their reports be true or false is nothing to me If I can cleare it to a candid and ingenuous Reader that I have not mis-reported their reports I will be guiltlesse both before God and men For my part I beleeve their reports to be true as here they are represented to thee Seeing they come not from malignants amongst them or enemies to them nor yet from men of small or no credit but such as are members at the least of their Churches and therefore true and reall Saints which will not at least should not lye yea many of them officers and some yea most of them Ministers of the Word in their Churches who as they cannot be thought to be ignorant of or mistaken in their courses so much lesse can they be reasonably suspected of falshood or partialitie in their relations At least shall not by me who both sufficiently know the fidelitie of the most of these from whom these intelligences come and also have been by some of them so often chastened for making any doubt thereof But suppose these reports should not be true or that others of them should report otherwise this may perhaps impeach their credit it cannot mine and I shall desire of him whosoever he be that shall call the truth of this Relation in question for substance at least that he himselfe would put forth a truer It is a small thing to say They hold not or they doe not this or that but tell us what they doe hold and practise that we may be misted no longer as hitherto Object But if this report he crue yet if you thinke they doe evill you should rather conceale your brothers faults and errours Love covers the multitude of sinnes Answ Love covers what sinnes may be covered but some sinnes cannot be covered they are so publikely committed and some may not though they could because the concealment of them may doe hurt to themselves or others the publike or private wealth in which case it were both against Pietie Charitie and Prudence to conceale them In both these respects I conceive their courses are not to be covered First they cannot at least in great part being long since made publike to the world and daily are more and more by their own printing preaching and private instilling them into others Secondly
to W. R. ‑ R. W. to I. L. ‑ Mr M. to I. M. ‑ Mr L. to his parents c. And threaten us with destruction eo nomine inviting therefore all they can to depart from us as from Babel Ibid. and doctrinally teaching separation from us as a dutie Ans to 32. q. p. 32. And herein some of them are so cruelly kinde unto us that they professe to be grieved that we have here any Preaching or Ordinances at all in our way wishing we had none at all that so we might be forced to fall into their Church-wayes for the enjoyment of them Mr M. to I. M. And what is here said of their opinion of the truth of our Churches the same is for substance to be understood of the truth of our Church Ministerie Object You may as well call the good old non-conformists Brownists as these men who have followed them in these their opinions and practises as their guides Answ In like manner doe the Brownists father their separation also upon the Non-conformists but both forts do it unjustly that the Brownists doe it unjustly he that will may see by Mr Balls book against Mr Canne upon that very point and in good part by another book lately printed called a grave confutation of the errours of the Brownists made long since by sundry Godly Divines which in their times suffred in the cause of inconformitie For my selfe at this time I may not I will not attempt to give satisfaction at large to this objection onely this I say for the present that in such things wherein either the Brownists or these brethren do mainly differ from other the best reformed Churches they have no consent or approbation from the Non-conformists at all nay contrarily by many undeniable evidences from their writings and practises it will appeare that they have ever stiffely opposed and conflicted with all popular and independent government in behalfe of that we call Presbyteriall True indeed some of them especially in their polemicke writings while they had the Prelacie in their eye and no considerable adversarie but that to contest withall did perhaps somewhat unwarily as may befall the best and best learned men in such cases let fall some few things which those brethren make their advantage of As that 1.2 particular Church ought onely to consist of one Congregation 2. That each particular Church hath power to transact all its own matters 3. That this power is seated in the body Many more then these I doe not now remember which are in question between us and these brethren But 1. these things they hold not as now cur brethren doe as if every small company of 7.8 or 9. might make such a complete Church or Congregation to transact all their own businesses independently without assistance of or being accountable unto classicall or higher combinations nor that this power is seated in such a Congregation without their officers or that they can exercise it any otherwayes but by them But if any of them have gone far as it s more then I know so it s more then I will defend But if all these in the Non-conformists sense-were granted it would doe our brethren little good 2. Besides suppose they had the Non-conformists their guides in these three and three more of their Church courses in question yet would not this reach to cover and hide the nakednesse of all the rest Object We see the most of the better sort goe this way now Answ I beleeve not the most by many but if it were so that were no good argument to justifie it 1. Because of those that doe go that way a great number are Anabaptists Familists and Antinomians c. who all willingly choose to fall into the same channell of popularitie and independencie perhaps partly out of designe to make a more considerable I say not sormidable party that so either for favour or feare they may be the more indulged partly because it suites so well with mans proud nature for every man by his good will would rule and no man would willingly depend upon or be obnoxious unto another 2. Most good mens affections are strong when oft their judgements are weake 3. All men are ever apt to run into extremes hence it is that whiles they fly prelaticall tyranny they easily fall into popular Anarchy 4. The noveltie of the course 5. The peoples good opinion of the persons that way siding and drawing 6. And the advantage the said persons have had whereby to screw themselves further and further into the peoples good opinion and affection by being ever imployed in the chiefest work of the ministerie in some of the chiefest of our Churches although they have been so farre from acknowledging themselves ministers as that they doe not so much as acknowledge themselves as members of any of our Churches but as to us according to their own rule altogether without Object This seemes to reflect upon our brethren that come out of Holland but these are not so rigid as the rest what is this Relation to them Arsw It concernes them I grant not so much nor so directly yet in some sort it doth 1. Because sometimes they tell us they are of the same way with the N. E. brethren 2. Both their disputes and practises so farre as they are knowne doe all look that way 3. Their lying so close lockt up and reserved in many things makes them I conceive not without cause the more suspected For truth seeks no corners no cloaks If therefore now by this occasion they would please to put out according to their promise not a mock-Natrative a meere gull such as the last was but as a true so a full perfect and plaine discovery of their opinions in these things from point to point and from end to end I should heartily rejoyce as in the much desired fruit of this my poore labour That so all misunderstandings and mispristons being removed and we rightly enformed of the just latitude of their and our differences we might either more hopefully addresse our selves to satisfie their judgements or else if that cannot be obtained the more willingly condescend to move with them for the favouring of their consciences according to the rules of Pietie and prudence in such things as are capable of toleration and indulgence But lest good Reader I should be tedious to thee I will cease to pursue these things any further at this time And praying the God of peace and truth to send down his Spirit into all our hearts to lead us into both that we with all his may truth it in love and may all serve one God with one heart according to one way even his own will revealed in his Word To him I commit thee FINIS
the like he saying to her I le be thy husband and she to him I le be thy wife if there were no defect in the covenant or otherwise but want of mentioning the mutuall duties that by Gods law belong to married persons I beleeve that would never make it null nor would that their covenant the lesse bind them to such mutuall duties because the particulars were not exprest in the covenant at the marriage-making fellowship and Church duties Discourse of Cov. p. 4 7 8 26. Ans to 9. Pos p. 75. with application to this particular Church b As this covenant is destructive to our Churches so is it apt to cause schismes and separations of one Church from another even amongst themselves It s a partition wall as one cals it built up to hinder that communion that ought to be among Churches and that care that one Church and member ought to have of another Here being so strict a tye to the duties belonging to our own Church and the members thereof but not a word of any dutie to be performed to other Churches or their members So that if a member of the same Church with my selfe want watching counsell reproofe c. my covenant binds me to performe accordingly But if one of another Church doe need as much and I have fit opportunitie c. yet by this covenant I have nothing to doe with him he is without to me 1 Cor. 5.12 onely to which one is now to be joyned by this covenant Discourse of Cov. p. 10 15 28. Ans to 9. Pos p. 75. 5. And this covenant is made by every member both with God and the Church and by the Church also backe againe with every member Discourse of Cov. p. 4 10 12. J.W. ans to 10. quest R.M. to W.R. 6. And thus they define it c All the middle part of this definition explaines the matter of a true Church Of which in the former Chapter onely the beginning and end doe shew the nature of the Covenant which they call the Forme of which here in this Chapter ' Its a solemne and publike Promise before the Lord and his people whereby a companie of Christians called by the power and mercie of God to the fellowship of Christ and by his providence to dwell together and by his Grace to love and cleave together in the unitie of faith and brotherly love and desirous to partake according to the will of God in all the holy Ordinances of God together in one Congregation doe bind themselves to the Lord to walke in all such d The words are good and faire but he that takes this covenant had need to consider that in the sense of them that give it The waies of God are their wayes of Church constitution and popular Government which if he be not upon good ground satisfied that they are indeed the wayes of God then how can he safely ingage himselfe to them by this covenant and that not only to be a patient to tolerate what he cannot mend but even to act with them also in the same Our brethren conceive that a Minister in swearing canonicall obedience in omnibus licitis honestis to a Bishop did thereby justifie Episcopacie And doe not by the same reason all that take this covenant justifie popularitie and independencie wayes of holy worship to him and of edification one towards another as God himselfe hath required in his word of every Church of Christ and the members thereof Apol. p. 5. Discourse of Cov. p. 3. Apol. p. 5. 7. The properties hereof 1. It is sacred not civill Discourse of Cov. p. 3 4. 2. It must be publike before all the Church Discourse of Cov. p. 4 17 R.M. to W.R. 3. Vocall and expresse J.W. ans to 10. quest Apol. p. 45. 4. So firmely binding as that it cannot be loosed without the consent of the Church Of which see more after 8. After all this rigourous exacting of this Covenant sometimes they mollifie the matter and tell us That an e If so little wil serve what need such outcries for more and the truth of all Churches to be questioned such sharpe contentions amongst brethren to be raised and sad separations of one Church and Christian from another to be made about and for want of an express covenant as essentiall and absolutely necessary to Church estate agreement or consent to be members of this or that societie and to walk with them in Church fellowship will serve and is equivalent Apol. p. 32 44. Discourse of Cov. p. 21 22 23. T.G. to J.G. And sometimes in stead of exacting this covenant they onely inquire what is mens intention whether they intend to doe so or no and if they intend it that sufficeth Mr W. to Mr P. And as for us they sometimes acknowledge that ourconsent to the law of the land made by King and Parliament appointing that all such as sit down within such precincts shall be of this or that Parish or Church is an implicite covenant Apol. p. 14. and sometimes that our promise to beleeve walk according to our Articles of Religion is sufficient Discourse of Cov. p. 40. 9. This Covenant amongst them though for substance of matter it be all one in all their Churches yet in forme of words it is divers in divers Churches but in the same Church it is ever in one and the same f Here we have a set forme of holy Covenant in the Church a principall part of worship invented by one or more men perhaps of a former age and imposed upon others even as many as shall enter into that Church read also upon a book And what is this better or more lawfull then such a set forme of Prayer especially since this covenant is imposed as an Ordinance of God and absolutely necestarie so as no book prayer is And seeing the matter is confest to be all one in all Churches why may not the forme also be lawfully all one by mutuall agreement And if one forme of covenant be lawfull for all the Churches consociated why not one forme of Leitourgy or Directorie for worship also Forme of words as well as matter and therefore put in writing and when any one is admitted it is then read either by the party himselfe that is admitted or else unto him by some other man whereunto he is to give his assent R.M. to W.R. Apol. p. 5. 10. One or two of their formes I will here insert that the Reader may the better by example take up their sense touching this Covenant 1. The Covenant of the English Church at Roterdame as is reported to us renewed when Mr H.P. was made their Pastour was to this effect WE whose names are here-under written having a long time found by sad experience how uncomfortable it is to walk in a disordered and unsetled condition c. 1. g g All things in these two formes in a fait construction are very good but
the Lord in our particular callings shunning idlenesse as the bane of any state nor will we deal hardly or oppressingly with any 9. We will also to our best abilities teach our children and servants the knowledge of the Lord and his will that they may serve him also O. H. 11. This Covenant thus distinguished from the Covenant of Grace they hold to be that Covenant which is h Here is a piece or two of such Divinitie as I never heard or read before but uno absurdo dato mille sequuntur sealed by the Sacraments and for the sealing and ratifying of which the Sacraments were principally ordained of God and therefore to be administred only to such as are first entred into this Covenant as seales thereof Apol. p. 15 19 31. Ans to 9. Pos p. 63 66. And therefore that such persons as by their condition cannot joyne in Church Covenant nor live in Church fellowship with a set societie are not bound to partake in Sacraments Apol. p. 39 41. See Robins justif p. 80 110. Though I doe not find the Brownists so solicitously to distinguish between the Church covenant and the covenant of Grace as these our brethren doe 12. Such as were admitted into their Churches infants by the covenant of their parents are not yet permitted to receive the Lords Supper when they come to yeares untill they have first run through all the foresaid course of i What if upon examination they prove neither cōvincingly gracious as wanting expected evidences nor yet openly scandalous as being over-powred with Gods ordinances and good education and government what shall become of them then admitted as members to the Lords Supper they shall not be and excommunicated I trow they cannot justly be By this rule they must remain in a middle condition neither of the Church nor without the Church And what warrant have we for this publike and private examination profession of faith declaration of the manner of their conversion and personall vocall expresse entring into the same covenant as others of yeares have before them done and as if they had never been received members before Ans to 32. q. p. 20 21. CHAP. V. Of the manner of their first erecting of a visible Church 1. k The Reader may perhaps think in reading these two first articles some fault to be in the collectour that so foule a contradiction should be held but if there be any fault it must be none but their owne either in holding and practising things in themselves so contradictory or else in reporting to us such things as they neither hold nor practise But this contradiction will yet appeare more foule when we consider what will after follow that they hold it not only lawfull to do it without their consent but also sometimes necessary to do it against their consent of which see Chap. 15. ANy small number almost of persons so fitted as before they hold may lawfully unite themselves into a Church body by entring into the Church covenant aforesaid and so may constitute themselves a true visible Church of Christ without any authoritative consent of the Christian Magistrate supposing there be one or of the neighbouring Churches or their Ministers R.M. to W.R. Ans to 32. q. p. 43. Robins justif p. 181 182. 2. Yet a l The law doubtlesse is good as from the Magistrate but how doth this agree with that opinion which too many of them amongst us that run the same Church-courses with these brethren hold that the Magistrate hath nothing to doe with the first Table unlesse the publike peace be broken he is to force no man against his conscience too or fro but leave every man to follow his own light and religion Also as it is an agreement of the Churches and Ministers I the rather like it because it seemes to amount to little lesse in substance then a compound Presbyterie set up amongst them the rather if we adde what the same H.P. tels us that they have also agreed amongst themselves that no man shall preach or vent any new or uncouth tenents untill he have first communicated them with the neighbouring ministers A very good Canon especially for these times wherein men run a madding after novelties and niceties under the false pretence of a new light and new truthes Law is made in their generall Court civill that no Church shall be there set up without the knowledge of the Magistrate and neighbour Churches R.M. to W.R. yea as Mr H.P. informeth us not without the consent of five or six of the neighbouring Churches at the least 3. The m Here is another Ecclesiasticall canon in act though not in rule If this be needfull at the first erection of a Church that each should try and know others spirits why not also after at the admission of every member he to try and know their spirits as well as they his persons intending to enter into Church estate doe before hand often meet privately amongst themselves to be inwardly acquainted with each others spirits by conferring praying together and mutually examining each other untill they have approved themselves to one anothers consciences in the sight of God Which when they have throughly done in private then they agree together to enter into a church estate R.M. to W.R. ‑ H.W. to Mr B. 4. Which before they doe notice is given thereof to the Magistrate and neighbouring Churches that so such as please may be present at the time and place thereunto appointed R.M. to W.R. ‑ H.W. to Mr B. ‑ J.W. to T.S. 5. The number wherewith they usually begin at the first constitution of every Church is about 7.8 or 9. Ibid. 6. Notice being given the Magistrate and Churches send their n Here then Churches use messengers or deputies to represent themselves and to act in their roome why not in a Synod as well And if they may trust their power with their messengers for approving or disapproving whole Churches much more of particular members at their admission Messengers or Deputies to see how things are carried and to give them advice direction approbation or disapprobation as they shall see cause Ibid. 7. The day appointed is kept with fasting and prayer and sometimes if not alwayes preaching of the Word which is performed by some of the persons that now come to be combined into this Church-societie In the latter end of the day each of those persons now to be churched if I may so say maketh publike profession of his faith thereby shewing his knowledge and opinion in the Grounds and Principles of Religion and declaring from point to point the work of God upon his soule in his Conversion And all this in an extemporarie at least conceived speech i. e. not in any set forme Ibid. 8. Which when the Messengers of the Magistrate and Churches have heard and considered if they be unsatisfied or any stander by they make their objections or propound further questions as they thinke
fit untill they be o It s an hard taske to satisfie all commers touching these things questioning and objecting what they please and harder for a man to be stayed perhaps for some differences about Church Discipline or suppose some objection be made against his life it must here be presently and openly declared and scanned before all the countrey This is little wisedome lesse charitie satisfied if it may be Ibid. 9. If in the end the said Messengers be not satisfied then they or so many of them as concerning whom they are not satisfied either in point of knowledge or grace are forbidden to enter into Church estate and so remaine still as before out of the pale of the Church Ibid. 10. If at length they be fully satisfied and all doubts cleared then the said persons proceed to enter into Church-covenant which being written one of them reads and all of them subscribe it and so they are become a true p If so much time and so many encumstances be needful to joyn 7. or 8. together into one church how much time would be requisite to joyn 3000. together But our brethren will acknowledge the Apostles went a shorter way to work Discourse of Cov. p. 29 30. the reason whereof they render because the Church was not then subject to so many hypocrites which is more then any man knowes when Christ saith Many are called few chosen Many seeke but few sinde Besides this course is used by our brethren not to ordinary Christians only but to the most godly and best approved I beleeve therefore it was rather because the Holy Ghost had given them no such direction nor was this manner of church constitution then hatcht constituted visible Church as they say Ibid. 11. Which being done the said Messengers of the other Churches give them the right hand of fellowship and owne them for a sister Church And so returning backe doe make report to the Churches that sent them of all things done and declare to them that they are to account of them as of a true Church of Christ Ibid. CHAP. VI. Of church-Church-power or the power of the Keyes the first subject in whom it resides and the exercise of it in generall 1. THey hold that every such companie as aforesaid though never so small consisting of private persons only i.e. such as are in no church-office and perhaps all illiterate too yet is rightly and immediately intituled to all the priviledges of the visible Church of Christ and invested with all Ecclesiasticall q Who would not long to be soon churched in this way seeing thereby immediately they might be indued with so vast a power This is a sweet morsell no marvell if peoples teeth water for it But where or when did God so grant all this power over to the people that yet he excepted the Sacraments and them only out of the charter surely either he gave them all or none The necessitie of which consequence some Brownists perceiving therefore of late here in London have claimed and contended for them also The word and Sacraments in our Saviours commission are knit together Goe preach and baptise and both settled upon the Ministerie But our brethren have here divided them and made preaching common to the people And though our brethren intend not so yet in event possibly this may nourish in the vulgar some fragment of poperie as if the Sacraments were more excellent then the preaching of the Word they being reserved as peculiar to the Ministers this common to others with them power from Christ as the first and proper receptacle thereof have the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven committed to them and may now forthwith administer and partake of all church-ordinances except onely Sacraments execute all Church-censures and transact all their owne businesses within themselves Ans to 32. q. p. 10. 41 44 48 49 50. Cott. cat p. 10. R. M. to W. R. R. M. to E. B. p. 4. ‑ J. W. ans to 10. quest See Rob. justif p. 106 107 112 121 122 125 126 127 138 190 113 167 184 198 331. Sions royall prerog Preface Barr. discov p. 39. 2. The particular sorts of which Church businesses are these 1. Admission of more members into their Societie 2. Authoritative admonition of members offending 3. Binding and excommunicating of such as having offended prove incorrigible 4. Loosing and authoritative forgiving such as upon admonition and excommunication do repent re-accepting them into the communion of the Church again 5. r How weake good people are and insufficient without their guides assistance to examine Ministers abilities to judge of Doctrines and other matters touching persons and things needfull to the exercise of Church-government he that please may see in our brethrens late Apologeticall narration p. 24 28. Besides the experience of the Bostoners in N. E. who generally would have chosen Mr Wheel-right the notorious Familist to have been co-teacher with Mr C. there had not some few withstood it as I. P. told W. R. Making i.e. examining electing and with imposition of hands ordaining their Pastours and all other their officers 6. Unmaking i.e. degrading and deposing them again when they see cause so to do 7. Preaching i.e. expounding and applying the word with all authoritie to the severall uses of their members 8. And generally whatsoever else may concerne the edification and spirituall good of that societie save onely the administration of the seales And all this before they have any officers or if they have any yet without reference to them as officers at all 9. And when they have Ministers then they have Sacraments too Ans to 32. q. p. 10 15 41 42 44 45 48 49 50 68. Cott. cat p. 10 11 12. Dis-course of Cov. p. 23. Ans to 9. Pos p. 62 70 76 77. J. W. ans to 10. quest R. M. to E. B. p. 4. ‑ R. M. to W. R. Apol. p. 24. Rob. justif p. 9 111. 3. All which things they claime to themselves power to doe without any ſ When officers are not yet setled in any Church or being once setled do fail through casualtie it is agreed upon on all hands that some extraordinary course is to be taken Let it therfore be considered whether it be not more proper and neerer to the ordinary rule to call in the assistance of the officers of some neighbouring churches by vertue of that communion of Churches which themselves acknowledge to supply the wan of their owne officers in examination ordination and deposition of Ministers c. rather then to use meere private persons i.e. non-officers of the same Church authoritative concurrence or assistance of any other Churches or their officers which they hold unlawfull in others to offer and in themselves to accept or admit Ans to 32. q. p. 41. R. M. to E. B. p. 10. Rob. justif p. 335 339. 4. Therefore they ordinarily convene together before they have any officers and hold publike Ecclesiasticall meetings and
all which are enemies to the right observation of the Lords day Object They finde no such inconvenience their Churches have few offenders and when they have matters are soon dispatched Answ It may well be now whiles their choice materials romaine and their numbers are so small and inconsiderable but when their Churches shall grow numerous and their materials in processe of time shall degenerate as they must needes will not these inconveniences and many more follow then presence of the whole Societie that so they may be able to give their sentence in faith Apol. p. 31. J. C. printed letter p. 4. which is therefore usually done on the Sabbath day after Evening Sermon Johns plea p. 307. Rob. apol p. 38. 11. Whether matters be carried amongst them by most voyces or no is not so generally agreed upon Some affirme that the major part carries it against the lesser part yea though the officers be in this lesser part and do shew strong reason to the contrary Mr M. to J. M. Others that the whole body must agree else nothing proceeds J. P. to W. R. Ans to 32. q. p. 60 61. Some that things are not carried by voyces at all but by a The question here it not what ought to be done in foro conscientie divino but in foro ecclesie externo It will be granted on all hands that all things in the Ecclesiasticall as civill Court ought to be done according to truth and right But supposing a difference do arise and both sides pretend to truth and right our brethren denying any others to interpose otherwise then by way of advice the question is then Whether nothing shall be done which in the end amounts to little lesse then Anarchy the mother of consusion and this of destruction or that seeing the officers may not the maior part of the people shall corey it in foro externo Reason and the Examples of all other judicatures doe seeme to conclude that the most voyces of the Judges ought to take place truth and right and according to God Ans to 9. Pos p. 72. Ans to 32. q. p. 58 60. Barr. discov p. 78 261. Johns plea. p. 307. Sometimes they grant indeed all things are curried by consent of all but then they explain it thus viz. That if it fall out that any lesser number doe dissent then the greater indeavour to give unto or to receive from them due satisfaction which if it be done then all agree in one vote If the lesser party dissenting neither can give satisfaction to the greater nor will receive satisfaction from them but still persist in dissenting then doe the maior part after due forbearance and calling in the counsell of some neighbouring Churches b Indeed it were much better that the whole Church and every member thereof did consent but to extort and force a consent after this manner seemes not only harsh and uncharitable but also foolish yea destructive too For either the aforesaid admonition may sometime proceed to an excōmunication or not If it may not then ' its vain and of no efficacie to compell consent it may rather occasion contempt If it may then as suppose it be in the case of admission of some member for the gaining of one man and that perhaps none of the best neither 7 10 or 20. may be lost and be cut off from the Church But were it not better to let all things currantly passe by the most voyces then thus by seeking to force an universall consent to expose the Church to such dangers and inconveniences judicially admonish them who being thus under censure their voyce is now extinct and made voide And so the rest proceed to vote which vote is now the vote of all the Church viz. of all that have the power of voting therein Ans to 32. q. p. 58 61. 12. Notwithstanding all this power aforesaid by them attributed to this Church when it is yet young of very small number and without officers too Yet doe they deny unto it though growne never so numerous and well furnished with godly and learned officers and withall strengthened with the consent of other Churches and the Christian Magistrates authoritie c Yet contrary to this Article I beleeve themselves take libertie to appoint some humane observances or which is worse to impose them on mens consciences for divine Ordinances all power to make any particular rules or lawes in things indifferent conducing to the better government of her selfe and more orderly and more edifying performance of Gods worship and use of his Ordinances according to the generall rules of Scripture in such cases provided Ans to 32. q. p. 66. Cott. cat p. 9. R. M. to E. B. p. 9. Barr. discov p. 84 255. Rob. Apol. p. 73. CHAP. VII Of Church membership and admission of more members into the Church thus constituted and erected 1. ALL men are bound say they to become d What if it bee though possible yet for the present very inconvenient and discommodious may they not delay a while No say they yet because that might seeme harsh and heavie therfore to ingage the more and withall to make the ingagement the more easie they allow some to be admitted as members transient for the time onely Apol. p. 20 27. But why may not this favour be allowed to all as well as to some Also how doth this agree with the tenour of the covenant that limits no time and with the sense of it that as they conceive obligeth all the members to aske and take counsell of the Church and not to remove without their consent as is both before and after said setled members of such a particular Church as is before described And whosoever doth not if possibly he can sinneth And whether he can or no yet he remaines for the time without the visible Church of Christ for which they frequently alleadge 1 Cor. 5.12 and in that estate uncapable of any e Yet sometimes themselves consesse that men converted have right to the Sacraments and Church priviledges in their state as beleevers and men converted If there were any that could administer the same unto the … which ordinary Ministers cannot do say they whose power reacheth only to church members These things do not cohere Church ordinance or priviledge though he be not only baptized but also truly converted yea eminent in the profession of faith and practise of holinesse even unto martyrdome it selfe Ans to 32. q. p. 11 30 38. ‑ D. ag P. p. 4. R. M. to E. B. p. 6. Nay he is accounted as one that despiseth Church-fellowship and so unworthy of it yea wicked and prophane Apol. p. 25 26 27 34. Ans to 9. Pos p. 69 62. Ans to 32. q. p. 11 12 21. ‑ J. W. ans to 10. quest Rob. justif p. 56 71 85 86. 2. Persons admitted are either infants or such as are of age 3. When any person of age is to be
and in the Church Assembly onely yet in these they hold there is no Church communion at all Ans to 32. q. p. 7 28. Ans to 9. Pos p. 62. Apol. p. 26 34. Rob. justif p. 192 195. 4. These things say they doe not onely belong to Church Communion but to the Communion of this n How doth this agree with that which followes after of administring and receiving of Sacraments in other Churches by vertue of the communion of churches particular Church onely of which one is stated a member and therefore are to be performed onely to the members thereof and not to the members of other Churches much lesse to any such as are not at all in Church estate Ans to 32. q. p. 11. 5. Especially Sacraments are to be administred as onely by Ministers of the same Churches as after so onely to Church o How is it then that they acknowledge Ans to 9. Pos p. 63 64. Apol. p. 6 7 21 40. that scattied members of Christ may partake of the Sacraments as members of the Catholique Church Also that Sacraments do rightfully belong to all visible beleevers and their sced as such if so be there were any Ministers now that might lawfully administer the same unto them viz. such as were the Apossles and Evangelists And that the reason why they cannot now actually partake therein is because now ordinary Ministers power extends not beyond the bounds of their own church Whence I inferre 1. that then church-membership is not necessarie to participation of the Sacraments of it selfe but by accident only 2. that beleevers are not uncapable of Sacraments by their own tenent through any defect in themselves but in the ministerie that I say not in God they indeed are capable of them but God hath provided no ministerie to administer the same to thē I mean to scattred Saints 3. That participation of Sacraments is no part of church communion since of right it belongs as well to all visible beleevers as such though they be no church members at all 4. That Baptisme is not given only to a Church body 5. That it was not intended as a seale of the Church-covenant All which are contrary to their tenents members and p Here also they seeme as before not constant to themselves who after tell us that by communion of Churches the Minister of one Church may administer the Sacraments to the members of another Church why not then to such as are members of no Church also being beleevers seeing the A postles did so and seeing ordinary Ministers have as much power over such as are no members as over the members of another Church both being without the Church to them members of the same Church Ans to 9. Pos p. 62 63 64 66 70. Ans to 32. q. p. 11 12 37. Apol. p. 29 30 39 40 41. Cott. cat p. 6 7. R. M. to E. B. p. 4 5 6. R.M. to W.R. 6. They hold that if any sinne be committed by any in the Church for want of watchfulnesse and admonition in others all the body is defiled therewith and made liable to a common judgement as was all Israel by Achans sinne Ans to 32. q.p. 50. Ans to 9. Pos p 75. Discourse of Cov. p. 7. Apol. p. 10. 7. That a man that is sui juris may not lawfully stand member of such a Church in which he cannot observe and enjoy all Gods ordinances nor where any q Who then may stand members of their Churches or will they say that there are no corruptions amongst them suffered doubtlesse if other Churches may be judges not themselves who are parties they are faulty one way as well as others are another way It may be also as hard to reduce as others are corruption in Gods worship or other sinne is suffered unreformed but if he be joyned to it he must separate from it else he is defiled therewith Ans to 32. q. p. 32 33. Rob. justif p. 15 16 197 200 201. Johns plea p. 245. Barr. discov p. 26 29 34 38. 8. Especially where any set Leitourgy or r Yet themselves allow set formes of Psalmes to be sang as Prayers and Praifes to God and of benedictions or blessing the people of church covenan as before some of them also set formes of catechising and confessions of Faith as H. P. ‑ I C. his Catechisme of the Church So Robinsons cat of Discipline added to the end of Perkins cat Why then not a set forme of Prayer too whereas they dislike set formes because imposed I cannot see how bare imposition by lawfull authoritie of that which is lawfull so far onely as it is lawfull should make it unlawfull I should rather thinke it should make it necessarie And whereas they inculcate that our set formes have been so imposed as leave no libertie of adding altering or taking any thing away I answer we have no such imposition among us seeing all experience hath shewed that any man might lawfully adde what he would though by the law he might not perhaps take away or alter ought But supposing the worst that our set formes were so rigidly imposed by law that no man might adde to or alter or take away ought yet if Ministers did both adde to what they thought defective and alter what was offensive and leave out what they judged unlawfull I see no reason why the fault of the imposers should be imputed to such as obeyed their imposition no further then it was faultlesse set forme of prayer is imposed to be used Ans to 9. Pos p. 52 59 60 61. Mr M. to J.M. Cott. cat p. 5 6. ‑ R.M. to E.B.p. 7. Johns plea p. 245 285. Brown confess art 45. Cannes necess of separation p. 110. Rob. justif p. 344. 9. And where ſ If they will walke close to their owne principles they must grant that not onely open and grosse wicked defile the worship of God to all the societie but also unregenerate persons and all that give not good evidence of their conversion yea even secret sinness also such as Achan was though perhaps they have the truth of grace if they be admitted Of which see before Art 6. But then who shall escape free or with what societie can a man joyne to be assured not to be defiled bad men are suffred to come to the Sacraments with the good because thereby both the ordinances and all that partake in them are defiled Apol. p. 37. J. D. to L.H. Barr. discov p. 34. Rob. justif p. 15 197 201 204. CHAP. X. Of the Communion of Churches one with another and of separation from corrupt Churches 1. THey grant that severall Churches have a t If there be a communion of Churches then an union whereby many therefore may be rightly called one And if an union of many Churches without Covenant why not also of many members in the same Church without covenant Communion amongst themselves whereby they do and may
u How can this stand with their doctrine of the covenant before which tyeth the members to church duties only to their own Church and that Sacraments belong onely to the members of their owne Church and with their doctrine following that Ministers are Ministers only to their own people and cannot doe a ministeriall act to any but such as by calling them have given them power over them which some of themselves perceiving rather then part with this latter which they hugge as a precious truth are content to question the former of the communion of Churches as S. E. mutually partake each with other in some Church-ordinances * If this may be done in Sacraments by vertue of Church communion why not in Ordination and Excommunication also as Sacraments And that this Communion is both between the Ministers and members of the same Ans to 9. Pos p. 62 78. Ans to 32. q. p. 29. Apol. p. 2 13. ‑ R.M. to E.B. p. 11. 2. By vertue of this Church communion they say one Church by letters of recommendation may give power to another Church over any of her members for Excommunication and the x This Divinitie is strange to me Themselves hold the Ministers power is not his own but concredited to him by the church so that he is but a Deputie himself deputatâ—a non potest deputare How then should he derive his authoritie to another and convey his power over to him as his deputie who himselfe is but the Churches deputie Ministers of one Church may convey power to the Ministers of another Church for Administration of the Sacraments to any of their members Cott. cat p. 7. Apol. p. 2 14 26 40. ‑ J.W. to T.S. Hence the infants of some of Windsor Church in N.E. have been baptized by the Ministers of the Church of Dorchester there R.M. to W.R. 3. But without such letters of recommendations and formall granting over of such power from one Church and Minister to another it were y They are very tender of losing any of their members and of having them but to communicate for a time with any other churches but their own but they make no bomes of getting all the members they can from cur Ministers and Churches belike we have neither true Ministers nor Churches and therefore they may doe with us what they list unlawfull in any case to administer any Church ordinance to any Church or members but their owne or to admit them to any Church communion upon any pretence whatsoever Apol. p. 14 26 40. 4. Though they hold it lawfull by this Communion of Churches for one Church to admit the members of another unto fellowship of Church ordinances and priviledges yet not of every Church But they thinke themselves bound to know the Church well whose members they so admit as well as the members themselves whether it bee a true Church or a false a pure Church or a corrupt Ans 10 32. q. p. 29. 5. And that if they should admit any members of a false Church they should offend in so holding communion with a false Church yea if they should admit any members of a corrupt Church they should be defiled by such communion unlesse they did first protest against their corruptions Ans to 32. q. p. 29. ‑ J.C. printed letter p. 12. yet they hold no such z What ground for this distinction of defilement by Church communion and no defilement by religious communion defilement by admitting them unto religious communion though their Church were not only impure but utterly false 6. They are very straight-laced in denying communion to the members of other Churches that are not a This is one cause and the chief why our most godly English going over thither are yet rejected from all Church communion there Not because of any personall defect but because of the reputed corrupt estate of our Churches whereof they stand or lately did stand as members constirated and governed in the same manner with their own which onely they conceive to be constituted and governed according to the Rule of Christ Ans to 32. q. p. 82 83 84. yea if a companie of approved godly people should sit downe neer them where their power reacheth differing from them onely in some points of Church-Government some of them tell us that not only they should not be b If upon such smaller differences they be so severe how much more would they be in greater Some of their pactie here plead hard to be indulged in sesser differences yet what those are we may not know or whether they he lesser or greater tolerable in a Church or not and if they be not hearkned unto they are apt to cry out Persecution persecution yet when others desire the like favour of them they tell us there is no favour to be expected if we persist to breake any Rule of Christ their meaning is if we follow them not close in their wayes So partiall and sâ—lfish are some men that they thinke all severitie to others too little to themselves too much owned as a sister Church but should also be in danger of severe punishment by the civill Magistrate H.W. to P.H. What they hold of our English Churches and Ministers see in the Postscript CHAP. XI Of Excommunication and Re-acception into Church-fellowship again upon repentance N. I find little difference herein betweene them and others of the reformed Religion more then what is above touched save that 1. I Heare some of them have prest that not only the scandalous but also the f And no marvell For if none must be of the Church but reall Saints such as have truth of grace which they cannot have that do not in some proportioÌ„ grow in grace therfore it must needs follow that such should be cast out And by the same reason cut with all that doe not convincingly shew all such evidences of grace as Divines from Scripture do lâ—y down as demonstrations of grace in men But if we closely hold to this way of triall of the members of true visible Churches we may well make Churches as the Brownists consisting of 2. or 3. or perhaps as our N.E. brethren of 7 8 or c. members but we shall rarely if ever meet with such numerous Churches as the Scriptures hold forth and therefore such as all Churches ought to be as neare as may be non-proficients that grow not in grace under the meanes might be excommunicated Which was the ground as some of them report of a groundlesse course set on foot amongst them at Cambridge in N. Engl. That the people met together privately at certain times weekly or fortnightly each one to hold forth unto the rest the work of God upon his or her soul from their first conversion unto that present day that so their Pastour might know how they grew in grace A.W. to Mr B. CHAP. XII Of Church officers their office manner of calling their power maintainance and
the dis-officing or deposing of them again 1. WHen a Church by admission of more members is now grown to a competent number which oft-times proves some g No wonder it is long first what for want of such choice members as they seek and what for want of choice Ministers for they tell us to our comfort that many that were counted good Ministers in old Eng. are there laid aside because the Churches there doe aime at men of speciall abilities yeares first then they addresse themselves to the calling of some to the Ministery and other offices in the Church R.M. to W.R. 2. If any of their own members be fit for the service they make choice of them If not they procure elsewhere Yet so that none is chosen to be an officer in any Church till he be first formally admitted h Church membership is the salt that sealons all things ' Its strange that his membership in the Church whence he last came by communion of Churches can stand him in no stead member of the same Church in the same manner every way as others have beene H.W. to Mr B. 3. The severall Churches with them how small soever and though as yet without any officers doe challenge to themselves both power and execution of all things whatsoever do belong to the calling and creating of their own officers as 1. To i What abilities most good men have in judging of Ministers as reason so their own experience will tell them when as if I be rightly informed all the members of the Church of Boston some few excepted did strongly stickle to have had Mr Wheelwright that famous Familist joyned as co teacher with Master C. in that Church Also see Apol. Narr p. 24. examine and try their abilities and fitnesse 2. To elect them 3. To instruct them in their office at their ordination 4. To ordaine them with imposition of hands prayers and charges given them And in summe to give them all the power of their office in that Church in the name of Christ Ans to 32. q. p. 40 41 42 68 71. Discourse of Cov. p. 23. ‑ Ans to 9. Pos p. 70 77. R.M. to W.R. ‑ H.W. to Mr B. Rob. justif p. 300 303. Cannes Necess of separ p. 29. Barr. refut of Giff. p. 130. A light for th◠ign p. 7. Rob. Apology 4. Whereby it is come to passe that every of their first Ministers at least in every of their Churches is ordained by one or more k Have not wee as much cause to doubt of the truth of their ministerie as they of ours they being made by meere private men i.e. not in any office ours by Presbyters at least and therein according to the Apostles rule 1 Tim. 4.14 seeing the Bishops themselves were Presbyters with whom were other Presbyters ever joyned in Ordination of any Besides the choice and approbation of many of us by our people also whether they or we come neerer to the Rule let the Reader judge private men appointed by the rest in their names to pray over them impose hands upon them instruct charge them and give them authoritie there to minister The act being the act of the whole Church but for order and ease sake the formalitie is committed to one or two in name of the rest l The Levites election was from God immediately and their Ordination by the Priest by Gods appointment Numb ◠11 13 14. The peoples laying on of their hands in this work was not authoritative that were needlesse when God had authorised them both immediately by himselfe and mediately by the Priest before if not presumptuous that they should interpose their authoritie when God himselfe had established them by his But either it was obedientiall only to declare their approbation of Gods choice and Ordination and then it is nothing to our brethrens authoritative imposition of the peoples hands Or rather as I conceive for the same end for which they were commanded to lay hands on the head of the sacrifice to be oftred as vers 12. viz. to signisie that they i.e. their first born by right were all the Lords and did owe to be but that God of his goodnesse was now pleased to accept of the Levites for them vers 16. As the Israelites laid hands on the Levites Numb 8.10 ‑ J.M. to R.M. ‑ Ans to 32. q. p. 68 69 70. R.M. to E.B. p. 10. Rob. justif p. 328 331 338. 5. They hold that the peoples m By this reason me thinks all that are elected by the people to a constant exercise to a constant exercise of the chiefe dutie of the Pastours office which is prenching of the Word and do also by compact receive the tithes and wages due by law to the Pastour should be the Pastours of the places where by the peoples choice they doe so preach and by consequent many of our brethren of that way here in London and England should be Pastours of many of our Parish Churches But doe they count themselves so or do they carry themselves so Election is not onely essentiall unto but also the whole substance of the calling of the Minister or other officer But as for Ordination with imposition of hands of the Presbyterie or other signe they hold it not essentiall at all but a meere formalitie or solemnitie of the calling the presence whereof addeth nothing to the substance of the calling and the absence thereof takes nothing from it Ans to 32. q. p. 67 68 69. Discourse of Cov. p. 23. ‑ R.M. to E.B. p. 10. Apol. p. 24. Rob. justif p. 308 332 333 334 335. Rob. Apol. p. Per electionem jus ministerii Presbyteris confertur c. Barr. refut of Giff. p. 219 130. 6. After the first officers are thus made by the Church the formalitie of ordaining the rest is ordinarily committed to such n So that if they have but one Pastour or Teacher he alone laies hand on the next officer to be ordained But S e Pauls rule for Ordination is that it should bee done by the hands of the Presbyterie not of one Imgle Presbyter much lesse of one private man officers as are alreadie called and ordained not as having any more power by vertue of their office to doe it then before for the power is the Churches and belongs equally to every member as a member but as being the Churches publike servants to doe it for them and in threi name and stead See the quotations cited before Art 4. Rob. justif p. 321 323 327. 7. In the sorts or kinds of their officers they agree with others of the best reformed Churches o I will not impute to the generall that private opinion but too publikely here by some of them vented that the Pastor is only to feed the people with wholesome doctrine the ruling Elders onely to visit them and see to their manners Onely whereas in opinion and tenent they precisely distinguish between the Pastors and
are no Ministers which I feare upon account will prove but few must leave their callings and give themselves to the preaching of the word and Prayer which both were diligently practised by the Apostles as Ministers and with strict charge imposed upon all Ministers to practise as belonging to their office to the end of the world Again it this be so how is it that some of our brethren of that way are far more busie in seeking our cunversion here not so much to grace as to their Church covenant then to build up their own Churches with which they are in covenant already at home converting souls any more then other gifted brethren are who owe it by the office of common charitie Ans to 32. q. p. 80 82. Rob. justif p. 308 11 47. whence it must needs follow that either none are converted in their Churches by their ministerie or else if any be that fals out only accidentally not as the direct end of their office and Gods Ordinance 13. They acknowledge a most u A right tenent if rightly understood limitted But how comes it then that some of them that have charges as Pastours in other Kingdomes far off yet take and hold places of setled ministeriall imployment here strict tye between the Minister and his people and that the one hath speciall proprietie in the other Apol. p. 11 24. R. M. to E. B. p. 11. 14. They conceive it unwarrantable that Ministers should have set and certain stipends or wages much lesse that they should live upon tithes But rather upon the peoples * Let the unpartiall Reader now laying all ends together judge whether the Ministers according to theâ—r rules be not the unhappiest servants under Heaven For 1. they must serve many masters perhaps many hundred 2. doe great worke 3. Yet nothing in effect proper to them but as other servants of the Church 4. Yet may neither know the certain bounds of their obedience 5. Nor indent for certain wages 6. Nor change their master or mistresle if they doe not like they may possibly be expulst at the Churches pleasure but never can depart at their own But if this be so how comes it to passe that some of them amongst us doe not only receive but strictly require so much set stipend for such a Lecture and so much more for such another or else they will not preach but also can be content to take the glebe tithes and other profits of sequestred Parsonages and Vicaridges amongst us as well as others But in some sort I marvell not at it if that be true which we are credibly informed that some of our brethren of the ministerie there have not long since complained that their Prophets did now prophecie in sacke for want of maintainance M. B. to S. A. and others of them out of their love have warned us of the like danger if tithes amongst us should goe downe Mr. W. to Mr. M. And therefore no marvell if our brethren that have been bitten with the peoples cold contributions there be content to forsake that rule and to covenant for wages as we doe here voluntary contribution weekly cast into the common treasurie according to their weekly gaines Out of which the Deacons are to distribute both unto the officers and poore according to that which is brought in and as they conceive to be fit and needfull for every one R. M. to W. R. ‑ Mr B. to S. A. ‑ J. W. to T. S. ‑ Ans to 32. q. p. 77. Cott. cat p. 7 8. R. M. to E. B. p. 7 8. Rob. justif p. 214 353. Barr. Discov p. 53 61 62. Brow Confess art 20 45. 15. As this Church hath power to make her own Ministers so also to x Which power we heare also they have used upon very slender grounds as in M. W. ‑ S. B. ‑ R. S. their cases question censure unmake and depose them and by reassuming their power to reduce them into the state of meere private men again And this also they claime power to doe as well as the other without any authoritative concurrence of any others whomsoever whose counsell although they may and perhaps will crave and use yet that is done freely without any authoritative obligation in foro externo Ans to 32. q. p. 41. Ans to 9. Pos p. 77. ‑ J. C. printed letter p. 3. Rob. justif p. 111 176 177. Sions royall Prerog p. 26. ‑ Seper Conf. art 23. Cann necess of se par p. 155. CHAP. XIII Of those whom they call Prophets and of prophecying or private mens preaching 1. THey hold it lawfull for meere private persons i.e. such as neither are in office nor are ever likely to be to exercise their gifts in and before the whole Congregation in y Some say without any Moderator at pleasure whereby strange things have been vented Scriptures sometimes notoriously abused Mr W. preaching i. e. in expounding and applying the Scriptures to the severall uses of the auditors by instruction confutation reprehension with all authoritie yea that this is an ordinary and perpetuall ordinance in the Church grounded upon 1 Cor. 14. ‑ Ans to 32. q. p. 78. Cott. cat p. 6. ‑ R. M. to E. B. p. 7. There is a book printed called A Sermon preached at Plimmouth in N. E. which as I am certified was made there by a Comber of wooll Rob. justif p. 183. Johns Inq. p. 7. A light for the ignor p. 19. Some of them indeed tell us that it s seldome used viz. only where the Church is z But such occasions are not rare with them who oft for a long time want Ministers in their Churches at least a full supply Also some of them have their farmes and so their families or servants so far off from their settled Congregations as that they cannot possibly come every Sabbath hardly any to the Ministerie there and therefore must either preach one to another or else be utterly without I. P. Besitles we are informed from thence the people of late grow more violent in clayming that their pretended libertie and priviledge of publike prophecying urging for it the writings and arguments of Mr Rob. the Brownist sometimes also contemning and deserting their own Ministers and Churches because they are not suffred to injoy it M. B. to S. A. unfurnished with officers or in case of their absence or sicknesse Ans to 32. q. p. 77. 2. Also after their Preaching they take upon them to blesse the people at their dismission as the Ministers doe 3. Likewise they have a course before their dismission to give leave to any that doubts of any thing that hath been then or formerly delivered in publike by the Minister or any other a Me thinkes its an abrupt course at the first dash openly to implead the Minister of errour delivered before all the people were it not more civilitie pietie charitie and prudence to talke with him first in private whereby either the
they may not if they could seeing by forbearance all this while they have fretted like a Gangrene into the bowels both of citie and countrey and I feare we have kept their counsell so long that many of them are already past cure in their errour and we almost remedilesse in our rents tending unto ruine Object You should rather have confuted them by arguments c. Answ This is already done in part by others and the presse is still in travell readie to bring forth more and new confutations of them 2. This is none of the worst wayes of confuting them as I conceive To relate them fully is to confute them sufficiently in the judgement of men judicious and uningaged Object You seeme by your paralell places quoted to accuse them of Brownisme wherein you highly wrong them Answ True I doe so and let the Reader judge upon examination and comparing of the places alledged if it be not so nay if in some things they doe not build up an higher partition wall betweene themselves and all other churches then ever the Brownists did as in their strict examination of members in urging a Church covenant distinct from the covenant of grace c. Besides to what hath been said in the Narration we may adde for further probabilities and just causes of our feare in this kind that 1. They sometimes cite and approve of the Brownists Books in questions between us and them and provoke us to answer them So we are informed from some of themselves P. B. that they cite Rob. book for prophecie and hold it unanswerable in that point And their party here boast much of Robijustif and bid us answer it if we can which book is also in some sort approved by the Ministers of N. E. in their Apology for Church covenant p. 30. 2. They use the same arguments and produce the same texts of Scripture to the same purposes as whosoever readeth their writings may observe 3. They condemne their courses but coldly with a quarenus only so far and so far their rigiditie onely not simply their separation Ans to 9. Pos p. 13. Apol. p. 30. Discourse of Cov. p. 41 42. They professe it there be any separating opinion amongst them they hold not themselves bound to inquire after it nor to separate from the Brownists for their separating from us I. W. ans to 10. quest ‑ M. H. ans to I. P. 4. They distinguish of separations one they call moderate the other rigid or bitter this they condemne but that they owne But what they meane by this rigid separation we well know not for even the Separatists themselves doe conde nine each others rigour the latter generally condemne some bitternesse used against our Churches by Barrow and Greenwood And of the latter also some as Robinson were far more moderate then the rest yet were all of them complete Separatists and so may these our brethren be too notwithstanding that distinction 5. They associate themselves in private communion and in Church communion too with them So Master H. to I. P. acknowledgeth and justifies it also See the Preface to Master G. defence of Master B. against Canne And we are credibly informed that H. P. received the Sacrament in a Brownists Church here in London yea some assure us of profest correspondence and agreement between some of our late Apologists themselves and those of the Separation here only that they have advised them to be moderate in their courses 6. The Brownists themselves doe claime them as their own and boast of them See Master G. defence of Master Bradshaw against Canne in the Presace 7. Though in the generall they professe to differ much from them yet when it comes to reckoning we find it not so which that it may appeare the better let us he are our brethren themselves expresse the differences Epist before the ans to the 9. Positions p. 53 60. They i.e. the rigid Separatists separate from your Congreg as no Churches from the Ordinances dispensed by you as meere Antichristian and from your selver as no visible Christians and so in divers other places Now excepting the last which is proper to the most rigid rigid Brownists of all as Barrow c. which the more moderate do utterly dislike as well as these our brethren Rob. justif p. All the rest for ought I yet see putting in the word unlawfull in stead of Antichristian as a milder terme and by Ordinances understanding Church ordinances as they needs must they cannot refuse by their Principles and practises but to own them Object By no meanes for they confesse your Parochiall Congregations to be true Churches which the other doe utterly denie Answ True in words they doe but in effect it is far otherwise 1. In that they lay the selfe same principles that the moderater sort of Brownists doe touching Church Constitution Matter Forme Power Government Communion corruptions c. which being granted the naturall product of such premises must needs be that we have no true Churches and that our Ordinances are all unlawfull 2. By carrying themselves towards us as if we were no true Churches or members of true Churches for they denie our best and most eminent Christians all Church Communion with them so they doe not to the members of any of the Churches of their own way they withdraw themselves from all Church communion with us in the best and purest of our Assemblies so they doe not from the Brownists and whereas they hold they may not lawfully admit of the members of other Churches without power given them so to doe by Letters of Recommendations from the said Churches yet they not only admit but invite thousands of the members of our Churches to their communion without yea against their consents 3. Sometimes they approve of us but faintly and coldly many faults they find with our Churches little or nothing worthy of commendation in regard of our Church estate or Church ordinances Apol. p. 38. Ans to 32. q. p. 25 26 27 31. Discourse of Cov. p. 36. And when they would seeme to justifie and pleade for us yet then they doe it with such uncouth and far fetcht proofes as we know not whether to accept or refuse their acknowledgement of the truth of our churches upon such conditions be the worse bargain as when they say we have true Churches because knit together in Church covenant though implicite because we had true Churches planted here in the New England frame in the Apostles times and perhaps also since c. Ans to 32. q p. 26. Discourse of Cov. p. 36 37. R. M. to E. B. 4. Some of them come off as roundly as any Brownists doe and tell us plainly that in deed we have good Materials but we want forme our Churches are Babels harlots Master M. to I. M. ‑ I. R. to his parents Mr S. to I. B. That we have true Churches no right Sacraments nor Ministers I. S. to Mris B. ‑ I. P.