have_v diligent_o peruse_v this_o antapologia_fw-la i_o find_v it_o so_o full_a and_o just_a and_o necessary_a a_o examination_n and_o discovery_n of_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n both_o in_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o of_o opinion_n that_o because_o i_o dare_v not_o as_o too_o many_o have_v the_o faith_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n of_o glory_n with_o respect_n of_o person_n i_o approve_v it_o to_o be_v imprint_v and_o commend_v it_o reader_n to_o thy_o most_o serious_a consideration_n ja._n cranford_n antapologia_fw-la or_o a_o full_a answer_n to_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n of_o mr_n goodwin_n mr_n nye_n mr_n sympson_n mr_n burrough_n mr_n bridge_n member_n of_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n wherein_o be_v handle_v many_o of_o the_o controversy_n of_o these_o time_n viz._n 1._o of_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n 2._o of_o class_n and_o synod_n 3._o of_o the_o scripture_n how_o far_o a_o rule_n for_o church_n government_n 4._o of_o form_n of_o prayer_n 5._o of_o the_o qualification_n of_o church_n member_n 6._o of_o submission_n &_o non-communion_n 7._o of_o excommunication_n 8._o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n 9_o of_o separation_n and_o schism_n 10._o of_o toleration_n and_o particular_o of_o the_o toleration_n of_o independency_n 11._o of_o suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n 12._o of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n by_o the_o people_n 13._o of_o church_n covenant_n 14._o of_o non-residencie_a of_o church-member_n humble_o also_o submit_v to_o the_o honourable_a house_n of_o parliament_n by_o thomas_n edward_n minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n ephes._n 4._o 14._o that_o we_o henceforth_o be_v no_o more_o child_n toss_v to_o and_o fro_o and_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n by_o the_o slâ—…ight_n of_o man_n and_o cunning_a craftiness_n whereby_o they_o lie_v in_o wait_n to_o deceive_v vers._n 〈◊〉_d but_o speak_v the_o truth_n in_o love_n may_v grow_v up_o into_o he_o in_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o head_n even_o christ._n matth._n 24._o 26._o wherefore_o if_o they_o shall_v say_v unto_o you_o behold_v he_o be_v in_o the_o desert_n go_v not_o forth_o behold_v he_o be_v in_o the_o secret_a chamber_n believe_v it_o not_o augustinus_n vincentio_n epist_n 48._o non_fw-la enim_fw-la propter_fw-la malos_fw-la boni_fw-la deserendi_fw-la sed_fw-la propter_fw-mi bonos_fw-es mali_fw-la tolerandi_fw-la â—…ti_fw-la sicut_fw-la toleraverunt_fw-la prophetae_fw-la contra_fw-la quos_fw-la 〈◊〉_d dicebant_fw-la 〈◊〉_d communionem_fw-la sacramentorum_fw-la illius_fw-la populi_fw-la relinquebant_fw-la bezae_fw-la epist_n prima_fw-la d'andreae_n duditio_fw-la lactabimusne_fw-la libertatem_fw-la conscientiis_fw-la permittendam_fw-la esse_fw-la minime_fw-la ut_fw-la haec_fw-la quidem_fw-la liberta_fw-la intelligitur_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la quo_fw-la cuique_fw-la modo_fw-la volet_fw-la deum_fw-la colat_fw-la est_fw-la enim_fw-la hoc_fw-la mere_a diabolicum_fw-la dogma_fw-la sinendum_fw-la esse_fw-la unumquemque_fw-la ut_fw-la si_fw-la volet_fw-la pereat_fw-la et_fw-la illa_fw-la est_fw-la diabolica_fw-la libertas_fw-la quae_fw-la poloniam_fw-la &_o transylvaniam_fw-la hodiè_fw-la tot_fw-la pestibus_fw-la implevit_fw-la quas_fw-la nullae_fw-la alioqui_fw-la sub_fw-la sole_a regiones_fw-la toleratent_fw-la london_n print_v by_o g._n m._n for_o ralph_n smith_n at_o the_o bible_n in_o cornhill_n near_o the_o royal_a exchange_n 1644._o to_o the_o tender_a consciensed_a scrupulous_a doubt_v christian._n dear_a and_o belove_a christian_n for_o your_o salâ—…es_n in_o special_a who_o be_v apt_a to_o be_v trouble_v with_o many_o doubt_n and_o fear_n about_o the_o constitution_n and_o government_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o the_o way_n of_o worship_n and_o communion_n in_o it_o have_v i_o draw_v up_o this_o present_a answer_n as_o to_o undeceive_v you_o in_o the_o apologist_n the_o apology_n and_o their_o churchway_n so_o to_o satisfy_v you_o in_o your_o scruple_n and_o doubt_n about_o presbytery_n it_o be_v my_o love_n care_n and_o respect_n to_o tender_a conscience_n that_o more_o especial_o move_v i_o at_o first_o now_o some_o seven_o year_n ago_o to_o fall_v upon_o the_o more_o through_o study_v and_o search_v into_o the_o controversy_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o ground_n which_o now_o of_o late_o have_v afresh_o revive_v my_o thought_n and_o study_n that_o way_n be_v 1._o the_o recover_a and_o reduce_v conscientious_a christian_n who_o be_v not_o too_o far_o engage_v 2._o the_o settle_v some_o who_o be_v waver_a and_o doubtful_a 3._o the_o keep_n of_o other_o from_o fall_v now_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o my_o latter_a thought_n and_o study_n in_o this_o kind_n be_v this_o antapologiâ—…_n which_o i_o here_o recommend_v to_o you_o for_o a_o true_a glass_n to_o behold_v the_o face_n of_o presbytery_n and_o independency_n in_o with_o the_o beauty_n order_n strength_n of_o the_o one_o 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put_v it_o in_o every_o city_n which_o we_o affirm_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o to_o carry_v the_o cause_n against_o you_o for_o if_o we_o can_v prove_v it_o in_o some_o city_n or_o in_o any_o city_n that_o the_o number_n of_o convert_v do_v arise_v to_o such_o a_o multitude_n as_o to_o make_v several_a and_o sundry_a congregation_n than_o we_o prove_v the_o scripture_n hold_v out_o a_o presbyterial_a classical_a church_n and_o overthrow_v your_o grand_a principle_n about_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o reader_n observe_v the_o fallacy_n of_o these_o apologist_n how_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o their_o expression_n and_o as_o they_o propound_v it_o though_o the_o thing_n may_v be_v true_a yet_o they_o alter_v quite_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n for_o though_o in_o every_o city_n where_o the_o apostle_n come_v you_o can_v not_o imagine_v the_o number_n of_o convert_v shall_v be_v so_o great_a nor_o we_o neither_o yet_o in_o some_o city_n you_o may_v have_v well_o imagine_v it_o 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city_n where_o it_o be_v probable_a the_o multitude_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o numerous_a as_o to_o make_v many_o meet_v place_n that_o ever_o they_o be_v govern_v and_o rule_v but_o in_o common_a or_o ever_o call_v church_n but_o church_n still_o call_v the_o church_n of_o corinth_n and_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n i_o foresee_v only_o one_o instance_n that_o can_v be_v probable_o allege_v that_o in_o rom._n 16._o 1._o of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v at_o cenchrea_n which_o cenchrea_n be_v a_o part_n of_o corinth_n and_o near_a to_o corinth_n yet_o name_v a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n but_o the_o insufficiency_n of_o that_o ground_n i_o shall_v at_o large_a show_n in_o that_o tractate_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o primitive_a practice_n have_v so_o far_o wrought_v with_o some_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n as_o those_o of_o holland_n that_o in_o great_a city_n where_o the_o number_n of_o their_o people_n
those_o congregation_n in_o all_o weighty_a matter_n and_o great_a case_n that_o fall_v out_o those_o precept_n of_o obey_v your_o elder_n and_o they_o that_o be_v over_o you_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o elder_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o that_o particular_o and_o ordinary_o preach_v to_o they_o and_o however_o it_o be_v true_a such_o place_n be_v especial_o understand_v of_o they_o yet_o not_o of_o they_o only_o and_o alone_o as_o exclude_v other_o as_o your_o argument_n carry_v it_o but_z including_z other_o who_o be_v over_o they_o too_o and_o to_o answer_v you_o by_o your_o own_o instance_n give_v of_o servant_n obey_v your_o own_o governor_n as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o text_n particular_a servant_n be_v to_o obey_v their_o own_o master_n so_o by_o the_o same_o text_n each_o particular_a servant_n and_o all_o of_o they_o together_o of_o such_o a_o company_n and_o hall_n in_o the_o thing_n and_o rule_n of_o their_o call_n for_o the_o public_a good_a of_o that_o society_n they_o be_v to_o obey_v and_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o whole_a company_n namely_o the_o particular_a master_n of_o other_o servant_n as_o to_o their_o own_o master_n yea_o and_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o common_a order_n and_o good_a rule_n of_o such_o a_o hall_n and_o corporation_n though_o their_o particular_a master_n do_v not_o vote_n for_o but_o against_o they_o 3._o those_o ruler_n who_o be_v of_o the_o presbytery_n be_v not_o foreign_a nor_o extrinsicall_a to_o the_o congregation_n but_o intrinsicall_a and_o natural_a as_o well_o as_o their_o particular_a elder_n so_o that_o another_o without_o themselves_o do_v not_o bear_v rule_n over_o they_o but_o all_o of_o they_o together_o by_o common_a consent_n do_v rule_v every_o one_o which_o be_v a_o most_o mild_a and_o free_a form_n of_o church_n government_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o which_o i_o shall_v not_o enlarge_v but_o refer_v you_o for_o satisfaction_n to_o what_o be_v say_v to_o this_o point_n both_o by_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o by_o some_o church_n from_o beyond_o the_o 25._o sea_n in_o their_o letter_n upon_o occasion_n of_o your_o apology_n 4._o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a way_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o economical_a relation_n and_o government_n of_o husband_n over_o wife_n and_o father_n over_o child_n and_o master_n over_o servant_n and_o their_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n etc._n etc._n unto_o the_o ecclesiastical_a and_o political_a because_o it_o be_v not_o to_o speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o in_o each_o of_o these_o the_o way_n of_o government_n be_v different_a for_o instance_n in_o those_o economical_a relation_n a_o woman_n can_v have_v but_o one_o husband_n one_o man_n can_v be_v but_o her_o husband_n and_o one_o man_n a_o father_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o child_n can_v pelinquish_v they_o diâ—…avow_v they_o though_o very_o bad_a nor_o deny_v those_o duty_n they_o owe_v they_o in_o those_o relation_n though_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n but_o they_o be_v to_o obey_v they_o which_o yet_o hold_v not_o in_o the_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o elder_n and_o minister_n that_o be_v unworthy_a and_o excommunicate_v that_o the_o member_n must_v be_v subject_a to_o they_o the_o royalist_n that_o argue_v so_o from_o that_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o child_n owe_v their_o father_n to_o subject_n subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o the_o hierarchicall_a man_n that_o argue_v from_o what_o child_n owe_v to_o natural_a parent_n though_o wicked_a and_o ungodly_a to_o what_o the_o people_n owe_v to_o wicked_a minister_n be_v answer_v at_o large_a and_o you_o know_v what_o mr_n robinson_n and_o many_o of_o your_o way_n say_v to_o that_o now_o the_o same_o will_v serve_v to_o answer_v your_o comparison_n that_o the_o place_n hold_v not_o alike_o between_o the_o people_n and_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o their_o husband_n mr_n baynes_n answer_v in_o the_o last_o page_n of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n that_o which_o be_v object_v touch_v pastor_n and_o father_n that_o the_o similitude_n hold_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v absolute_o parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v they_o good_a or_o evil_a but_o spiritual_a parent_n be_v no_o long_o so_o than_o they_o do_v according_o behave_v themselves_o 5._o the_o very_a instance_n you_o give_v of_o wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n and_o servant_n your_o own_o governor_n do_v not_o therefore_o only_o tie_v they_o to_o civil_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n and_o master_n exempt_n they_o from_o subjection_n to_o any_o other_o but_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o to_o common-lawe_n notwithstanding_o so_o neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n obey_v your_o elder_n etc._n etc._n suppose_v the_o full_a latitude_n of_o those_o scripture_n be_v of_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a congregation_n forbid_v or_o exempt_a man_n from_o that_o ecclesiastical_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o concern_v they_o as_o they_o stand_v in_o relation_n to_o the_o community_n to_o the_o three_o reason_n hint_v for_o yourselves_o and_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o the_o elder_n of_o other_o congregation_n shall_v have_v power_n and_o rule_v over_o church_n which_o they_o do_v not_o teach_v and_o feed_v ordinary_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n be_v to_o you_o a_o question_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v suppose_v three_o or_o four_o congregation_n in_o one_o great_a town_n shall_v have_v minister_n in_o common_a to_o teach_v and_o feed_v they_o ordinary_o as_o in_o holland_n will_v you_o in_o such_o a_o case_n yield_v to_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n if_o you_o say_v you_o will_v than_o the_o case_n be_v determine_v for_o we_o and_o thus_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o primitive_a church_n but_o if_o you_o answer_v you_o will_v not_o yield_v to_o such_o a_o classical_a government_n than_o i_o reply_v it_o be_v not_o for_o want_v of_o such_o minister_n teach_v you_o and_o feed_v ordinary_o that_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v but_o upon_o some_o other_o ground_n and_o then_o this_o argument_n be_v lose_v second_o i_o answer_v your_o roll_a elder_n do_v not_o feed_v nor_o teach_v you_o ordinary_o but_o only_o govern_v you_o and_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n you_o obey_v they_o and_o be_v subject_a to_o they_o so_o that_o this_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o those_o who_o man_n teach_v not_o ordinary_o for_o than_o what_o become_v of_o the_o rule_v elder_n in_o the_o church_n who_o be_v neither_o pastor_n nor_o teacher_n to_o the_o four_o reason_n draw_v from_o corporation_n who_o have_v the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o which_o kind_n of_o power_n you_o will_v have_v i_o answer_v you_o can_v frame_v a_o good_a argunment_n from_o corporation_n and_o civil_a power_n to_o body_n ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o i_o may_v give_v you_o the_o many_o difference_n allege_v by_o yourselves_o between_o civil_a power_n and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o different_a manner_n of_o dispensation_n but_o i_o must_v not_o enlarge_v here_o only_o refer_v you_o for_o this_o to_o separat_fw-la mr_n robinson_n church_n mr_n burrough_n and_o theol._n dr_n ames_n 2._o corporation_n go_v according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o to_o their_o charter_n agree_v upon_o and_o make_v in_o parliament_n they_o make_v not_o themselves_o a_o corporation_n nor_o go_v not_o according_a to_o private_a rule_n and_o order_n to_o pass_v sentence_n of_o death_n etc._n etc._n but_o be_v rule_v though_o they_o have_v officer_n as_o major_a and_o alderman_n by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o so_o go_v they_o may_v more_o safe_o have_v a_o power_n within_o themselves_o but_o your_o particular_a congregation_n set_v up_o yourselves_o without_o leave_n of_o magistrate_n or_o minister_n not_o proceed_v upon_o common_a rule_n of_o government_n in_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n agree_v by_o synod_n but_o only_o upon_o your_o own_o will_n and_o private_a rule_n which_o you_o have_v fancy_v be_v lay_v down_o in_o scripture_n 3._o corporation_n though_o they_o judge_v their_o member_n and_o pass_v sentence_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o yet_o sometime_o nay_o often_o in_o great_a case_n and_o offence_n their_o inhabitant_n be_v try_v and_o sentence_n pass_v upon_o they_o in_o other_o court_n of_o justice_n and_o that_o when_o they_o will_v proceed_v against_o they_o yet_o the_o matter_n be_v carry_v high_a to_o be_v try_v if_o you_o will_v grant_v this_o in_o the_o corporation_n to_o your_o congregation_n that_o assembly_n and_o synod_n may_v judge_v and_o pass_v sentence_n upon_o your_o member_n as_o oft_o
thing_n when_o they_o must_v we_o find_v it_o so_o in_o all_o converse_v with_o man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v man_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o authority_n and_o obedience_n and_o only_a persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o such_o case_n be_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a member_n in_o your_o church_n to_o submit_v or_o not_o submit_v as_o they_o please_v there_o will_v be_v much_o ado_n to_o remedy_v any_o thing_n as_o will_v be_v betwixt_o church_n differ_v but_o particular_o for_o excommunication_n and_o non-communion_n excommunication_n may_v upon_o these_o ground_n awe_v man_n conscience_n more_o and_o be_v more_o effectual_a than_o non-communion_n 1._o because_o there_o be_v something_o positive_a in_o it_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o the_o offender_n up_o unto_o satan_n but_o your_o non-communion_n be_v a_o privative_a deprive_v only_o of_o communion_n now_o there_o be_v more_o efficacy_n in_o a_o positive_a then_o in_o a_o privative_a and_o negative_a second_o excommunication_n do_v deprive_v the_o person_n offend_v or_o the_o church_n of_o all_o communion_n among_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o the_o communion_n of_o other_o church_n whereas_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v but_o take_v other_o church_n off_o from_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o meddle_v not_o to_o debar_v they_o of_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o their_o own_o particular_a church_n but_o still_o they_o enjoy_v the_o word_n prayer_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n three_o yourselves_o make_v excommunication_n the_o great_a censure_n as_o appear_v by_o your_o own_o phrase_n call_v it_o a_o authoritative_a power_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o practise_v that_o against_o other_o church_n whereas_o you_o do_v exercise_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o we_o know_v it_o be_v the_o high_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n now_o certain_o the_o great_a censure_n and_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o intention_n be_v more_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o awe_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n amiss_o then_o the_o lesser_a and_o low_a censure_n and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o comparison_n in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n you_o grant_v that_o aught_o to_o back_n and_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o you_o give_v more_o as_o you_o think_v to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yeâ—…ld_v your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o answer_v suppose_v all_o that_o you_o say_v of_o give_v so_o much_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n &c_n &c_n be_v true_a yet_o that_o make_v not_o your_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n so_o effectual_a a_o mean_n as_o excommunication_n for_o the_o question_n be_v about_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o about_o spiritual_a mean_n and_o remedy_n for_o the_o conscience_n and_o soul_n and_o not_o about_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a external_a mean_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v you_o this_o question_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n either_o you_o give_v he_o a_o ecclesiastical_a spiritual_a power_n of_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n to_o church_n miscarry_v or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o give_v he_o not_o this_o first_o as_o i_o judge_v your_o principle_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o he_o be_v no_o churchofficer_n of_o christ_n â—…hurch_n but_o only_o christ_n give_v pastor_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n as_o necessary_a and_o sufficient_a for_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n than_o all_o you_o say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n help_v you_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o before_o i_o speak_v any_o more_o to_o that_o point_n that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n back_v your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n i_o must_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o passage_n itself_o both_o in_o the_o comparative_a of_o your_o say_n you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o upon_o the_o positive_a what_o you_o give_v they_o 1._o for_o the_o comparison_n it_o be_v a_o odious_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n to_o prepare_v king_n and_o parliament_n to_o reject_v the_o presbytery_n as_o not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n as_o be_v their_o due_n and_o it_o be_v scandalous_a against_o scotland_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o what_o be_v the_o main_a â—…nd_n of_o it_o or_o what_o may_v be_v conceive_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o say_n you_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o see_v man_n of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v never_o guilty_a yet_o of_o give_v too_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o magistrate_n you_o be_v the_o first_o independent_o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o public_o you_o have_v express_v yourselves_o thus_o i_o judge_v you_o be_v politician_n politici_fw-la theologi_fw-la to_o flatter_v the_o parliament_n at_o this_o time_n the_o better_a to_o work_v your_o end_n for_o a_o toleration_n and_o to_o promote_v your_o churchway_n you_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v observe_v by_o learned_a man_n that_o among_o the_o principal_a attempt_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n whereby_o they_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o the_o netherlands_o into_o commotion_n and_o to_o obtain_v their_o own_o end_n this_o be_v a_o great_a one_o the_o cry_v up_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o by_o write_v of_o book_n of_o their_o great_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n and_o in_o their_o sermon_n every_o where_o and_o their_o asperse_v the_o orthodox_n minister_n and_o their_o lawful_a meeting_n and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n with_o the_o contrary_a and_o among_o many_o other_o particular_n of_o the_o great_a power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n this_o be_v one_o that_o they_o do_v ascribe_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o ultimate_a and_o high_a jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o give_v judgement_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n reason_v that_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o immediate_o under_o christ_n do_v belong_v the_o judgement_n when_o controversy_n of_o faith_n do_v arise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o after_o the_o arminian_n despair_v of_o prevail_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o bring_v and_o remove_v their_o cause_n from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a cognizance_n to_o another_o court_n by_o their_o policy_n and_o artifices_fw-la make_v use_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o one_o or_o two_o chief_a man_n in_o place_n to_o work_v for_o they_o and_o that_o this_o new-way_n may_v have_v some_o colour_n and_o that_o so_o much_o the_o more_o easy_o the_o favour_n of_o many_o politician_n or_o at_o least_o a_o toleration_n may_v be_v procure_v for_o these_o arminian_n novelty_n there_o be_v a_o book_n set_v forth_o by_o uttenbogardus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la many_o other_o of_o the_o arminian_n also_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n as_o episcopius_n print_v a_o disputation_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlaeus_n grotius_n etc._n etc._n and_o beside_o all_o these_o there_o be_v a_o great_a number_n of_o book_n put_v forth_o in_o the_o vulgar_a and_o mother_n tongue_n of_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o whilst_o the_o magistrate_n let_v the_o arminian_n alonâ—…_n and_o do_v nothing_o against_o they_o even_o till_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1618._o they_o slatter_v they_o thus_o but_o after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n have_v determine_v against_o their_o opinion_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n be_v agaiâ—…t_v they_o than_o they_o lift_v up_o the_o heel_n and_o then_o they_o write_v book_n in_o a_o far_a other_o stile_n and_o in_o their_o apology_n that_o power_n which_o before_o they_o have_v so_o liberal_o measure_v out_o for_o they_o they_o do_v not_o a_o little_a limit_n and_o contract_n and_o offend_v as_o much_o in_o the_o defect_n give_v magistrate_n too_o little_a as_o before_o they_o have_v in_o the_o excess_n give_v they_o too_o much_o for_o the_o full_a proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o learned_a erant_fw-la voetius_fw-la select_a disputation_n concern_v that_o question_n penes_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la where_o he_o do_v at_o large_a relate_v this_o and_o their_o opinion_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n after_o the_o synod_n
of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o afâ—…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o â—…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n veâ—…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o sâ—…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n â—…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v that_o your_o churchway_n consist_v all_o of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o not_o grow_v into_o great_a body_n by_o combination_n and_o synod_n the_o magistrate_n power_n be_v great_a over_o you_o in_o that_o he_o may_v easy_o deal_v with_o you_o and_o dissolve_v you_o at_o pleasure_n but_o for_o a_o power_n to_o grow_v into_o so_o great_a a_o body_n a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o large_a as_o the_o civil_a so_o combine_v this_o may_v be_v formidable_a and_o dangerous_a to_o the_o state_n and_o too_o great_a for_o the_o magistrate_n hereafter_o to_o rectify_v this_o have_v be_v by_o a_o active_a independent_a upon_o discourse_n of_o these_o point_n suggest_v to_o i_o and_o how_o far_o one_o of_o you_o have_v reason_v thus_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o many_o against_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o for_o congregationall_a you_o can_v remember_v or_o second_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o this_o phrase_n that_o when_o heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
write_v in_o any_o other_o sense_n but_o in_o the_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o power_n do_v we_o lie_v to_o your_o charge_n in_o our_o writing_n against_o independency_n that_o you_o challenge_v a_o exemption_n of_o all_o church_n from_o all_o subjection_n and_o dependence_n or_o rather_o that_o you_o shall_v blow_v a_o trumpet_n of_o desiance_n against_o what_o ever_o power_n spiritual_a or_o civil_a do_v i_o or_o any_o other_o charge_v you_o with_o refuse_v all_o subjection_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o for_o that_o other_o dependence_n of_o consultation_n and_o non-communion_n upon_o other_o church_n the_o power_n you_o give_v in_o that_o kind_n to_o synod_n etc._n etc._n i_o acknowledge_v it_o in_o my_o eight_o reason_n 19_o and_o argue_v from_o thence_o to_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n why_o then_o do_v you_o deal_v thus_o deceitful_o and_o double_o pretend_v to_o abhor_v and_o detest_v independency_n as_o it_o be_v object_v and_o plead_v against_o you_o when_o as_o beside_o the_o very_a word_n and_o phrase_n find_v in_o so_o many_o print_a book_n and_o note_n you_o hold_v all_o that_o in_o the_o question_n which_o be_v the_o difference_n betwixt_o you_o and_o the_o presbyterian_o as_o also_o in_o some_o of_o your_o book_n independent_a and_o entire_a power_n be_v termini_fw-la convertibiles_fw-la as_o in_o the_o title_n of_o zion_n prerogative_n royal_a which_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n in_o terminis_fw-la and_o in_o so_o many_o syllable_n you_o own_o more_o than_o once_o in_o this_o apology_n so_o that_o all_o your_o great_a word_n of_o abhor_v and_o detest_a the_o exemption_n of_o your_o church_n from_o all_o power_n spiritual_a or_o civil_a will_v not_o save_v you_o from_o independency_n just_o affix_v unto_o you_o as_o for_o civil_a power_n it_o be_v not_o the_o question_n in_o controversy_n neither_o be_v it_o affix_v unto_o you_o and_o for_o spiritual_a power_n proper_o call_v you_o deny_v it_o all_o along_o in_o many_o page_n speak_v against_o authoritative_a power_n often_o page_n 15_o 18_o 19_o and_o to_o put_v you_o this_o dilemma_n either_o you_o give_v authoritative_a power_n to_o other_o church_n or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o do_v give_v it_o why_o do_v you_o speak_v so_o against_o it_o in_o your_o apology_n but_o if_o you_o do_v not_o give_v it_o why_o will_v you_o make_v your_o reader_n believe_v you_o do_v give_v spiritual_a power_n and_o be_v not_o against_o it_o be_v not_o this_o double_n and_o shuffle_n and_o trouble_v the_o water_n that_o the_o reader_n can_v tell_v where_o to_o find_v you_o nor_o what_o you_o hold_v too_o great_a a_o evidence_n of_o a_o weak_a and_o bad_a cause_n become_v not_o such_o man_n as_o you_o will_v be_v take_v for_o truth_n be_v open_a and_o naked_a and_o do_v not_o seek_v out_o hole_n and_o subterfugy_n but_o brethren_n do_v not_o deceive_v yourselves_o nor_o your_o reader_n any_o long_o if_o you_o be_v not_o against_o spiritual_a power_n proper_o so_o call_v of_o any_o class_n or_o synod_n in_o reference_n to_o particular_a congregation_n what_o mean_v you_o by_o all_o you_o say_v from_o page_n 12_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o 19_o and_o of_o all_o that_o controversy_n and_o tragedy_n make_v by_o you_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n for_o give_v a_o power_n to_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o that_o the_o controversy_n may_v be_v bring_v to_o some_o end_n between_o you_o and_o we_o in_o your_o reply_n set_v down_o particular_o what_o you_o will_v allow_v to_o class_n synod_n general_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n in_o matter_n of_o government_n and_o whether_o that_o you_o will_v allow_v and_o give_v authority_n and_o power_n yea_o or_o no_o and_o what_o you_o will_v not_o give_v nor_o allow_v they_o and_o then_o state_n the_o question_n so_o and_o i_o do_v promise_v you_o in_o my_o rejoynder_n to_o apply_v myself_o to_o give_v you_o satisfaction_n as_o if_o you_o except_o excommunication_n ordination_n or_o what_o else_o to_o show_v you_o the_o ground_n for_o they_o and_o if_o we_o love_v truth_n and_o peace_n either_o you_o shall_v win_v i_o or_o i_o you_o 3._o for_o the_o odious_a name_n of_o brownism_n together_o with_o all_o their_o opinion_n as_o they_o have_v state_v and_o maintain_v they_o must_v needs_o be_v own_v by_o we_o i_o answer_v brownisme_n as_o you_o in_o these_o word_n express_v it_o have_v not_o be_v fasten_v on_o you_o by_o any_o that_o i_o know_v but_o on_o the_o contrary_a you_o have_v be_v common_o contradistinguished_a from_o they_o be_v call_v independent_o semiseparatist_n and_o in_o my_o reason_n against_o independent_a government_n i_o do_v in_o many_o passage_n difference_n you_o from_o they_o and_o for_o all_o their_o opinion_n as_o they_o have_v state_v and_o maintain_v they_o namely_o draw_v such_o consequence_n and_o conclusion_n and_o go_v so_o far_o as_o they_o i_o have_v often_o vindicate_v you_o but_o yet_o for_o all_o that_o you_o can_v just_o free_v yourselves_o from_o the_o odious_a name_n of_o brownism_n in_o most_o of_o the_o fundamental_a principle_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n no_o not_o with_o all_o your_o artifices_fw-la and_o specious_a pretence_n as_o the_o brownist_n grow_v up_o and_o out_o of_o the_o anabaptist_n do_v refine_v and_o qualify_v anabaptisine_n in_o many_o thing_n in_o government_n prophesy_v etc._n etc._n so_o have_v you_o refine_a and_o qualify_v brownism_n from_o the_o grossness_n and_o rigidness_n of_o it_o as_o it_o be_v hold_v by_o the_o first_o father_n and_o author_n of_o it_o as_o i_o can_v show_v in_o many_o particular_n you_o do_v not_o go_v so_o far_o as_o they_o neither_o be_v you_o against_o some_o practice_n of_o other_o church_n upon_o those_o high_a term_n but_o yet_o for_o substance_n from_o the_o first_o stone_n to_o the_o last_o in_o depart_v from_o our_o assembly_n and_o constitute_v new_a you_o agree_v with_o they_o as_o by_o a_o r._n parallel_n between_o the_o way_n of_o your_o communion_n and_o the_o separatist_n late_o print_v do_v appear_v and_o in_o a_o word_n it_o be_v evident_a thus_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o way_n of_o new-england_n as_o be_v confess_v by_o some_o of_o yourselves_o and_o we_o may_v judge_v so_o by_o your_o high_a praise_n of_o they_o now_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n agree_v with_o they_o of_o m._n robinson_n church_n who_o be_v moderate_a and_o qualify_a brownist_n now_o that_o the_o churchway_n of_o new-england_n be_v the_o same_o with_o they_o of_o m._n robinson_n church_n be_v prove_v thus_o the_o church_n at_o new-plymouth_n be_v the_o first_o company_n that_o plant_v in_o those_o part_n who_o come_v from_o leiden_fw-mi where_fw-mi they_o be_v member_n of_o m._n robinson_n church_n a_o moderate_a brownist_n in_o his_o latter_a time_n practise_v the_o church-opinion_n and_o way_n they_o former_o have_v in_o holland_n and_o when_o they_o of_o new-england_n go_v over_o first_o 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of_o he_o i_o shall_v not_o deny_v it_o but_o as_o for_o mr_n baynes_n diocesan_n trial_n which_o be_v the_o only_a book_n i_o ever_o hear_v of_o wherein_o he_o handle_v these_o point_n he_o do_v in_o the_o three_o question_n give_v the_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o the_o exercise_n of_o it_o to_o a_o unite_a multitude_n of_o presbyter_n in_o which_o book_n howsoever_o as_o intend_v his_o book_n against_o diocesan_n bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n to_o who_o all_o presbyter_n and_o church_n stand_v in_o subjection_n and_o subordination_n he_o plead_v against_o they_o for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o particular_a elder_n in_o the_o several_a congregation_n yet_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n practice_v namely_o of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o rule_v by_o the_o elder_n of_o several_a congregation_n combine_v he_o plead_v not_o but_o express_o in_o answer_n make_v to_o those_o two_o objection_n from_o the_o church_n and_o elder_n where_o there_o be_v a_o co-ordination_a and_o a_o communiâ—…y_n in_o government_n as_o in_o the_o low_a country_n and_o at_o géneva_n he_o grant_v the_o thing_n contend_v for_o against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n even_o before_o miscarry_v and_o show_v thâ—…_n great_a difference_n between_o the_o diocesan_n government_n and_o the_o presbyterial_a in_o several_a particular_n and_o answer_v your_o objection_n which_o you_o common_o make_v of_o a_o foreign_a extrinsicall_a power_n and_o for_o your_o better_a satisfaction_n read_v and_o compare_v together_o the_o passage_n in_o these_o page_n of_o mr_n baynes_n diocesan_n trial_n page_n 21_o page_n 11._o what_o be_v mean_v by_o a_o diocesan_n church_n and_o in_o the_o 12_o page_n two_o first_o conclusion_n agree_v in_o and_o in_o the_o 16_o page_n and_o for_o the_o non-conformists'_a in_o their_o write_n against_o the_o episcopal_a government_n and_o diocesan_n church_n though_o they_o put_v the_o bishop_n their_o adversary_n all_o they_o can_v to_o it_o to_o make_v they_o prove_v
infallible_o and_o necessary_o a_o particular_a church_n to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n yet_o they_o never_o intend_v it_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n now_o you_o know_v the_o say_n authoris_fw-la aliud_fw-la agentis_fw-la parva_fw-la est_fw-la authâ—…ritas_fw-la but_o show_v we_o where_o ever_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v so_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o gerson_n bucerus_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o geneva_n amplitudinâ—…_n and_o holland_n for_o which_o mr_n robinson_n so_o object_n against_o they_o in_o his_o apology_n that_o though_o they_o be_v against_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n that_o be_v of_o a_o head_n church_n over_o many_o congregation_n unite_v to_o it_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o city_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o as_o for_o that_o you_o take_v for_o 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of_o
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to_o a_o community_n of_o church_n and_o if_o that_o be_v your_o meaning_n you_o shall_v be_v independent_a enough_o and_o then_o further_o i_o demand_v of_o you_o how_o you_o can_v use_v those_o phrase_n of_o not_o claim_v a_o power_n to_o be_v subject_a to_o none_o other_o i_o confess_v you_o may_v better_o use_v those_o word_n of_o give_v account_n hold_v counsel_v and_o advise_v by_o sister-churche_n but_o as_o for_o that_o phrase_n of_o subject_v to_o none_o other_o i_o understand_v it_o not_o what_o censure_n will_v your_o church_n subject_n unto_o from_o other_o church_n will_v they_o yield_v to_o the_o deposition_n of_o their_o minister_n excommunication_n of_o their_o member_n etc._n etc._n or_o how_o can_v there_o be_v any_o subjection_n to_o other_o church_n in_o your_o principle_n the_o phrase_n be_v take_v proper_o and_o usual_o when_o as_o all_o along_o you_o plead_v against_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a power_n so_o oft_o express_v in_o page_n 15_o 16._o and_o be_v 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congregation_n and_o whether_o according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o churchway_n in_o m._n robinson_n work_n and_o the_o book_n of_o new-england_n and_o m._n bridges_n own_o letter_n unless_o some_o of_o you_o have_v late_o see_v another_o light_n you_o may_v have_v true_o write_v three_o elder_n at_o least_o in_o every_o congregation_n to_o who_o the_o congregation_n be_v subject_a or_o else_o three_o elder_n who_o be_v subject_a to_o their_o own_o congregation_n and_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o head_n of_o the_o five_o concern_v the_o three_o instance_n to_o the_o second_o head_n under_o this_o three_o instance_n what_o you_o be_v not_o satisfy_v in_o nor_o can_v allow_v 1._o about_o particular_a visible_a church_n that_o you_o can_v not_o imagine_v in_o every_o city_n where_o the_o apostle_n come_v the_o number_n of_o the_o convert_n do_v or_o shall_v arise_v to_o such_o a_o multitude_n as_o to_o make_v several_a and_o sundry_a congregation_n 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exception_n lay_v into_o all_o man_n thought_n against_o your_o congregationall_a way_n it_o be_v both_o a_o just_a and_o strong_a argument_n against_o it_o and_o that_o which_o many_o of_o your_o way_n when_o it_o have_v be_v object_v to_o they_o have_v confess_v there_o be_v no_o remedy_n nor_o help_v in_o such_o case_n but_o advice_n and_o counsel_n all_o must_v be_v leave_v to_o christ_n christ_n will_v take_v care_n of_o his_o own_o way_n they_o have_v not_o find_v out_o this_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n which_o you_o have_v here_o propound_v but_o i_o shall_v labour_v to_o make_v evident_a that_o all_o you_o bring_v by_o way_n of_o answer_n in_o declaration_n of_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n do_v not_o satisfy_v this_o objection_n and_o first_o for_o your_o judgement_n in_o the_o principle_n you_o hold_v and_o lie_v down_o i_o shall_v endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v no_o scripture_n ground_n nor_o primitive_a pattern_n for_o such_o 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a_o church_n or_o church_n and_o if_o i_o can_v show_v the_o invalidity_n and_o weakness_n of_o these_o bring_v by_o you_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o fear_n of_o what_o be_v behind_o now_o a_o man_n will_v wonder_v that_o wise_a man_n as_o you_o be_v shall_v except_v against_o a_o government_n receive_v so_o general_o among_o the_o reform_a churchâ—…s_n and_o bless_v so_o from_o heaven_n in_o the_o effectualness_n of_o it_o for_o the_o space_n of_o so_o many_o year_n as_o a_o sufficient_a remedy_n not_o only_o to_o reduce_v man_n from_o heresy_n and_o schism_n but_o to_o prevent_v church_n from_o fall_v into_o heresy_n schism_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v more_o and_o go_v set_v up_o a_o new_a way_n so_o different_a and_o so_o distasteful_a to_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o all_o upon_o pretence_n of_o no_o sound_a proof_n in_o scripture_n for_o such_o a_o government_n because_o there_o be_v not_o a_o apostolical_a direction_n either_o in_o example_n or_o precept_n 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instead_o of_o church_n of_o god_n and_o than_o you_o add_v they_o live_v among_o the_o alteration_n i_o suppose_v you_o make_v upon_o this_o ground_n for_o fear_v this_o text_n in_o the_o read_n of_o it_o shall_v hint_n that_o truth_n how_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o scripture_n be_v take_v for_o more_o than_o one_o particular_a congregation_n the_o addition_n they_o live_v among_o to_o make_v it_o a_o seem_a ground_n for_o church_n in_o a_o vicinity_n whereas_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n general_o all_o the_o church_n whether_o we_o live_v among_o they_o or_o far_o from_o they_o and_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o this_o place_n be_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o that_o particular_a offence_n which_o may_v arise_v to_o some_o corinthian_n from_o eat_v meat_n sacrifice_v to_o idol_n have_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v sacrifice_v to_o idol_n to_o lay_v down_o a_o general_a rule_n to_o all_o christian_n against_o give_v offence_n to_o any_o whether_o jew_n gentile_n or_o christian_n under_o which_o three_o rank_n all_o man_n then_o in_o those_o time_n be_v comprehend_v now_o pray_v tell_v i_o how_o will_v you_o make_v this_o text_n to_o prove_v that_o church_n offend_v and_o dister_v among_o themselves_o must_v submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n of_o other_o neighbour_n church_n offend_v and_o how_o will_v you_o from_o this_o place_n draw_v ouâ—…_n a_o power_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o send_v unto_o and_o require_v this_o of_o the_o church_n who_o have_v offend_v they_o this_o scripture_n if_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v it_o that_o i_o have_v consult_v with_o lay_v down_o a_o rule_n that_o every_o particular_a christian_a and_o so_o all_o christian_n must_v so_o walk_v as_o to_o become_v all_o thing_n to_o all_o man_n to_o please_v all_o man_n in_o all_o thing_n lawful_a as_o the_o 33_o verse_n interpret_v it_o and_o to_o give_v none_o offence_n but_o where_o do_v this_o scripture_n speak_v and_o how_o do_v it_o affirm_v that_o if_o either_o church_n or_o particular_a christian_n do_v practice_v thing_n that_o offend_v other_o church_n they_o who_o be_v offend_v have_v power_n and_o authority_n to_o send_v to_o they_o and_o to_o call_v they_o to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o that_o such_o who_o be_v challenge_v to_o offend_v must_v submit_v to_o such_o a_o judicial_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n in_o this_o text_n there_o be_v no_o more_o say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n then_o of_o the_o jew_n and_o gentile_n who_o must_v not_o be_v offend_v neither_o and_o will_v you_o allow_v jew_n and_o gentile_n offend_v by_o thing_n do_v in_o your_o church_n to_o call_v your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o you_o must_v submit_v this_o text_n reach_v to_o church_n that_o live_v in_o other_o country_n and_o unto_o particular_a christian_n though_o they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o such_o institute_v church_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o so_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o text_n we_o ought_v to_o give_v they_o no_o offence_n but_o will_v you_o grant_v that_o church_n of_o other_o country_n and_o kingdom_n may_v call_v church_n in_o another_o kingdom_n to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n and_o send_v their_o messenger_n to_o question_v they_o and_o thereupon_o pronounce_v sentence_n of_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o or_o that_o every_o particular_a man_n offend_v may_v call_v church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o hear_v and_o trial_n i_o will_v give_v you_o one_o instance_n i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o great_a rent_n and_o difference_n that_o be_v betwixt_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n and_o at_o mr_n simpson_n set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o great_a bitterness_n betwixt_o those_o church_n and_o i_o be_o much_o offend_v at_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n for_o let_v pass_v that_o schism_n and_o all_o those_o difference_n never_o question_v it_o especial_o question_v mr_n bridge_n church_n now_o have_v i_o a_o power_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o precept_n to_o call_v both_o you_o and_o your_o church_n to_o a_o account_n and_o to_o require_v of_o you_o a_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n before_o all_o comer_n and_o be_v you_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o it_o answer_v i_o this_o question_n in_o your_o reply_n and_o you_o shall_v see_v what_o i_o will_v say_v to_o you_o in_o my_o rejoinder_n for_o that_o other_o scripture_n 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o othâ—…_n man_n sin_n that_o be_v speak_v to_o timothy_n in_o regard_n of_o his_o authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o chapter_n and_o the_o immediate_a precedent_a word_n show_v
which_o be_v not_o your_o case_n deny_v authoritative_a power_n but_o if_o you_o say_v this_o text_n be_v mean_v secondary_o of_o all_o church_n and_o christian_n though_o they_o have_v not_o authoritative_a power_n i_o grant_v it_o but_o than_o it_o be_v in_o way_n suitable_a which_o the_o word_n of_o god_n give_v warrant_n and_o allowance_n for_o as_o in_o reprove_v mourn_a for_o the_o sin_n etc._n etc._n which_o must_v be_v show_v in_o some_o other_o scripture_n for_o else_o the_o presbyterian_o may_v pretend_v by_o virtue_n of_o this_o text_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n that_o they_o may_v censure_v depose_v excommunicate_a member_n of_o other_o church_n who_o be_v suffer_v to_o go_v on_o in_o sin_n better_a than_o you_o can_v draw_v from_o this_o text_n that_o you_o may_v call_v not_o only_o particular_a member_n but_o whole_a church_n to_o a_o account_n examine_v they_o and_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o they_o but_o in_o a_o word_n brother_n let_v i_o tell_v you_o if_o such_o general_a text_n as_o these_o that_o may_v be_v apply_v to_o any_o course_n and_o way_n conceive_v by_o man_n in_o their_o own_o brain_n to_o hinder_v sin_n and_o reduce_v from_o offence_n will_v serve_v turn_n for_o church_n government_n and_o for_o remedy_n to_o reduce_v church_n than_o we_o can_v give_v you_o beside_o your_o own_o two_o text_n quote_v here_o for_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o non-communion_n many_o other_o such_o and_o more_o probable_a too_o for_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o sinod_n as_o that_o in_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 22._o and_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n but_o we_o be_v not_o so_o hard_o put_v to_o it_o there_o be_v particular_a instance_n and_o example_n if_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o such_o a_o narration_n will_v permit_v i_o to_o insist_v at_o large_a that_o prove_v the_o point_n in_o difference_n namely_o of_o act_n of_o power_n exercise_v by_o church_n in_o common_a as_o in_o election_n determination_n and_o imposition_n upon_o difference_n and_o controversy_n as_o act_n 15._o 2._o 4_o 6_o 7_o 13_o 22_o 23_o 24_o 28_o 29._o act_n 16._o 4_o 5._o 2_o corinih_n 8._o 18_o 19_o but_o let_v the_o indifferent_a reader_n judge_v by_o this_o which_o have_v be_v say_v whether_o the_o reform_a church_n or_o the_o independent_a practice_n most_o safe_o there_o be_v a_o ground_n as_o yourselves_o confess_v for_o the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n such_o a_o sentence_n you_o acknowledge_v in_o particular_a church_n and_o practice_v it_o and_o such_o a_o sentence_n have_v be_v decree_v and_o pass_v upon_o member_n of_o church_n by_o those_o who_o be_v not_o member_n of_o those_o church_n as_o the_o scripture_n be_v clear_a for_o it_o 1_o tim._n 1._o 19_o 20._o but_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v that_o the_o scripture_n give_v any_o ground_n of_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o whole_a church_n or_o do_v allow_v any_o such_o practice_n of_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n unto_o all_o church_n against_o whole_a church_n this_o i_o utter_o deny_v and_o your_o scripture_n prove_v they_o not_o and_o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o dare_v call_v it_o the_o command_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o way_n of_o christ_n as_o you_o do_v in_o page_n 18_o 19_o and_o brethren_n beside_o that_o the_o scripture_n give_v neither_o precept_n nor_o example_n for_o your_o way_n of_o non-communion_n consider_v whether_o the_o scripture_n give_v not_o ground_n rather_o to_o the_o contrary_a namely_o against_o a_o particular_a church_n withdraw_v and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o whole_a church_n upon_o a_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o let_v i_o ask_v you_o may_v not_o such_o a_o church_n or_o church_n be_v true_a church_n for_o all_o this_o continue_v in_o their_o office_n upon_o mistake_a partiality_n and_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o light_a a_o particular_a church_n can_v give_v they_o be_v unsatisfied_a now_o if_o a_o particular_a man_n may_v not_o separate_v nor_o withdraw_v christian_a communion_n from_o a_o true_a church_n though_o upon_o his_o counsel_n and_o advise_v she_o redress_v not_o but_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n then_o for_o one_o church_n upon_o counsel_n and_o advice_n give_v to_o more_o church_n though_o not_o take_v to_o separate_v formal_o from_o many_o church_n by_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n can_v be_v justify_v paul_n do_v not_o renounce_v nor_o cast-off_a church_n for_o many_o thing_n amiss_o though_o upon_o his_o counsel_n they_o be_v not_o mend_v as_o appear_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n that_o have_v be_v twice_o admonish_v 2_o cor._n 13._o 1_o 2._o and_o â—…t_a repent_v not_o and_o now_o paul_n do_v it_o the_o three_o time_n and_o yet_o refuse_v paul_n counsel_n and_o power_n be_v so_o infallible_a and_o authoritative_a deserve_v more_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n than_o the_o often_o reject_v the_o counsel_n and_o power_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n can_v do_v but_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o in_o your_o own_o language_n that_o your_o sacred_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o church_n offend_v to_o pronounce_v the_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n offend_v and_o of_o declaration_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a with_o your_o own_o practice_n express_v in_o the_o 20_o and_o 21._o page_n be_v to_o i_o apocriphâ—…_n and_o judge_v it_o to_o be_v a_o additament_n which_o therefore_o rest_v on_o you_o who_o allow_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n to_o make_v evident_a and_o demonstrate_v that_o of_o non-communion_n protestation_n declaration_n etc._n etc._n and_o thus_o it_o often_o fall_v out_o whilst_o man_n will_v oppose_v that_o which_o have_v long_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n upon_o pretence_n of_o the_o want_n of_o scripture_n ground_n and_o bring_v in_o new_a way_n they_o practise_v novelty_n upon_o less_o ground_n and_o foundation_n from_o scripture_n than_o they_o reject_v the_o old_a as_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o this_o instance_n 2._o as_o these_o principle_n of_o yourâ—…_n have_v no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n so_o it_o will_v appear_v they_o be_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n and_o evil_n which_o fall_v out_o in_o particular_a church_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n within_o themselves_o first_o because_o there_o be_v more_o act_n of_o power_n then_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o the_o instance_n you_o give_v upon_o it_o reach_v unto_o so_o that_o grant_v all_o you_o say_v of_o it_o yet_o it_o will_v but_o reach_v to_o that_o particular_a case_n or_o some_o such_o like_a case_n but_o will_v be_v no_o way_n sufficient_a either_o for_o prevent_v or_o remedy_v other_o evil_n and_o mischief_n which_o dâ—…e_v and_o will_v arise_v upon_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o so_o that_o here_o lie_v the_o fallacy_n in_o the_o question_n between_o you_o and_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o point_n of_o government_n you_o speak_v to_o some_o point_n of_o government_n but_o not_o to_o all_o and_o instead_o of_o lay_v down_o principle_n that_o shall_v answer_v all_o case_n they_o only_o serve_v but_o to_o some_o and_o so_o your_o principle_n that_o shall_v be_v simpliciter_fw-la be_v only_o secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la for_o in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v many_o other_o act_n of_o power_n as_o of_o make_v and_o ordain_v minister_n of_o receive_v in_o member_n of_o agree_v upon_o a_o government_n doctrine_n and_o worship_n etc._n etc._n which_o this_o full_a complete_a entire_a power_n of_o particular_a congregation_n take_v upon_o they_o to_o do_v of_o which_o many_o great_a mischief_n do_v arise_v and_o be_v like_o error_n in_o the_o first_o concoction_n which_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n reach_v not_o unto_o nor_o do_v not_o help_v but_o second_o beside_o this_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o the_o other_o church_n offend_v with_o that_o practice_n of_o church_n final_o offend_v to_o denounce_v such_o a_o senâ—…ence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v not_o answer_v the_o case_n allege_v in_o heresy_n schism_n or_o person_n injure_v nor_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a remedy_n like_o that_o of_o combination_n of_o elder_n and_o for_o the_o make_v good_a of_o that_o i_o shall_v examine_v the_o way_n and_o course_n prescribe_v by_o you_o in_o your_o principle_n here_o lay_v down_o of_o submission_n non-communion_n declaration_n and_o protestation_n and_o
and_o restore_v mr_n ward_n agree_v upon_o be_v it_o not_o upon_o the_o news_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o probability_n of_o the_o revolution_n of_o thing_n and_o i_o propound_v this_o question_n because_o mr_n bâ—…rroughs_n who_o come_v in_o m._n ward_n place_n after_o his_o deposition_n come_v back_o to_o england_n but_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o till_o he_o come_v or_o be_v resolve_v to_o come_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a m._n ward_n be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o that_o it_o be_v do_v when_o all_o be_v like_a to_o break_v up_o and_o they_o to_o come_v fâ—…_n england_n may_v we_o not_o suspect_v it_o be_v do_v for_o a_o instance_n to_o vindicate_v your_o way_n with_o and_o to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o in_o this_o apology_n rather_o than_o from_o any_o necessity_n of_o right_v a_o person_n â—…jured_v or_o correct_v a_o church_n offend_v 5._o why_o do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n take_v offence_n as_o well_o at_o m._n sympson_n church_n and_o at_o his_o schism_n in_o set_v up_o another_o church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o bitterness_n evil_a speak_v between_o those_o two_o church_n the_o ground_n indeed_o and_o foundation_n of_o that_o unhappy_a business_n about_o m._n ward_n and_o of_o all_o the_o evil_n commit_v therein_o and_o according_o have_v require_v m._n sympson_n church_n to_o have_v submit_v but_o here_o be_v not_o a_o hint_n of_o this_o in_o all_o the_o relation_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n out_o of_o holland_n by_o i_o that_o concern_v this_o business_n write_v thus_o that_o though_o m._n sympson_n with_o sâ—…me_n fâ—…w_o morâ—…_n râ—…t_v themselves_o from_o m._n bridges_n church_n to_o the_o great_a offence_n thereof_o yet_o m._n goodwin_n and_o his_o associate_n when_o they_o come_v to_o hear_v the_o business_n about_o m._n ward_n never_o question_v that_o scandal_n i_o mean_v of_o their_o schism_n from_o the_o same_o church_n now_o if_o it_o be_v so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o partial_a remedy_n not_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o offence_n noâ—…_n to_o the_o bottom_n of_o it_o why_o do_v you_o not_o summon_v both_o these_o church_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o difference_n to_o submit_v as_o well_o as_o one_o of_o the_o church_n will_v not_o your_o principle_n serve_v in_o difference_n between_o church_n as_o for_o difference_n in_o one_o church_n or_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o complaint_n of_o neither_o side_n or_o be_v it_o because_o you_o be_v tender_a of_o question_v the_o multiplication_n of_o church_n though_o by_o separation_n and_o schiâ—…me_n or_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n you_o question_v not_o that_o 6._o whether_o be_v the_o other_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o of_o they_o who_o can_v not_o but_o be_v offend_v as_o they_o of_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n leyden_n delft_n call_v in_o by_o arnheim_n or_o by_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n to_o join_v in_o the_o hear_n try_v of_o that_o business_n and_o depose_v witness_n or_o do_v they_o send_v messenger_n or_o be_v it_o only_o agitate_a by_o two_o minister_n â—…nd_v two_o messenger_n of_o tâ—…_n church_n of_o arnheim_n one_o church_n only_o 〈◊〉_d to_o 〈◊〉_d one_o to_o one_o both_o equal_a and_o whether_o there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a majesty_n and_o solemnity_n of_o a_o meeting_n where_o they_o be_v equal_a â—…ay_v a_o inferiority_n in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o representative_a church_n consist_v of_o four_o be_v below_o a_o church_n represent_v as_o in_o a_o presbyterial_a assâ—…bly_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n from_o holland_n by_o i_o wherein_o a_o godly_a ministâ—…r_n write_v thus_o i_o be_v desire_v by_o mr_n ward_n to_o be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n but_o when_o the_o time_n come_v neither_o i_o nor_o any_o other_o english_a minister_n but_o they_o of_o arnheim_n be_v callâ—…d_v 7._o to_o what_o or_o to_o how_o much_o do_v your_o practice_n who_o be_v the_o church_n offend_v amount_v unto_o upon_o mr_n bridges_n church_n submission_n and_o your_o full_a hear_n and_o find_v both_o side_n to_o be_v in_o a_o error_n do_v you_o enjoin_v and_o draw_v up_o a_o order_n that_o the_o church_n offend_v shall_v public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinfâ—…_n abeâ—…ation_n before_o you_o and_o the_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n again_o and_o that_o they_o shall_v keep_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n and_o that_o the_o minister_n depose_v shall_v acknowledge_v to_o the_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v or_o do_v you_o leave_v they_o to_o themselves_o upon_o your_o find_v the_o offence_n to_o do_v what_o they_o think_v fit_v both_o church_n and_o minister_n as_o be_v against_o your_o principle_n for_o one_o church_n to_o decree_n and_o impose_v any_o thing_n upon_o another_o and_o so_o they_o â—…ooke_v up_o this_o way_n voluntary_o will_v you_o will_v speak_v out_o and_o once_o tell_v we_o plain_o what_o you_o hold_v and_o what_o you_o woâ—…ld_v 〈◊〉_d that_o so_o the_o reader_n may_v judge_v of_o the_o effectualnessâ—…_n of_o your_o 〈◊〉_d 8._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o offend_a church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v sit_v as_o judge_n with_o they_o oâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d in_o their_o own_o cause_n to_o examine_v depose_v etc._n etc._n or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d by_o aâ—…_n delinquent_n to_o be_v charge_v try_a etc._n etc._n 9_o i_o deâ—…e_v to_o know_v of_o you_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o be_v râ—…stored_v do_v as_o forme_o officiate_v in_o that_o church_n and_o how_o long_o and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n and_o he_o continue_v there_o as_o fellow_n minister_n and_o whether_o both_o between_o they_o two_o and_o between_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n there_o be_v that_o mutual_a carriage_n as_o before_o and_o aught_o to_o be_v between_o fellow_n minister_n and_o minister_n and_o people_n 10._o how_o can_v a_o church_n representative_a be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o allow_a remedy_n to_o take_v up_o great_a offence_n in_o a_o church_n at_o a_o great_a distance_n and_o whether_o this_o imply_v not_o a_o implicit_a faith_n in_o the_o represent_v to_o let_v the_o representer_n upon_o hear_v put_v a_o final_a determination_n and_o conclusion_n to_o great_a offence_n and_o difference_n without_o return_v back_o the_o business_n to_o the_o church_n represent_v or_o so_o much_o as_o ever_o acquaint_v they_o with_o the_o business_n before_o all_o be_v end_v as_o be_v in_o this_o particular_a case_n and_o whether_o faith_n mr_n robinsâ—…s_fw-fr argument_n against_o the_o presbyterian_o â—…bout_o the_o power_n of_o their_o elder_n be_v not_o strong_a against_o your_o principle_n and_o practice_n here_o relate_v and_o what_o ground_n be_v there_o from_o tâ—…e_a scripture_n that_o four_o man_n of_o another_o church_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o call_v unto_o and_o insist_v upon_o a_o judiciarie_n charge_v against_o they_o who_o be_v great_a than_o themselves_o namely_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o officerâ—…_n and_o people_n 11._o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o arâ—…m_n who_o send_v two_o ministerâ—…_n and_o two_o gentleman_n â—…s_v messenger_n of_o their_o church_n upon_o their_o return_n back_o to_o the_o church_n and_o give_v a_o account_n of_o all_o the_o proceed_n and_o issue_n of_o that_o business_n have_v dislike_v the_o determination_n and_o judge_v some_o of_o the_o proceed_n unjust_a otherâ—…_n unsatisfactory_a and_o not_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n as_o the_o church_n of_o 〈◊〉_d may_v well_o have_v do_v there_o be_v just_a ground_n for_o it_o as_o i_o will_v show_v in_o the_o second_o particular_a under_o the_o next_o head_n what_o must_v have_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n must_v the_o messenger_n themselves_o have_v be_v now_o question_v by_o the_o church_n for_o manage_v matter_n no_o better_a or_o must_v the_o sentence_n agree_v upon_o both_o for_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n be_v reverse_v or_o must_v other_o messenger_n be_v send_v to_o hear_v matter_n again_o and_o to_o change_v or_o add_v what_o be_v amiss_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n will_v not_o alter_v that_o which_o upon_o so_o full_a a_o hear_n and_o trial_n be_v agree_v upon_o now_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o and_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n consider_v that_o the_o church_n or_o church_n themselves_o may_v probable_o and_o it_o can_v but_o be_v expect_v 〈◊〉_d and_o vary_v in_o their_o judgement_n from_o their_o messenger_n about_o the_o determination_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n whether_o this_o be_v a_o likely_a mean_n and_o sufficient_a remedy_n to_o end_v all_o strifed_a or_o rather_o will_v not_o be_v as_o the_o begin_n of_o new_a strife_n and_o a_o occasion_n of_o endless_a contention_n 12._o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o occasion_n of_o offence_n and_o
therefore_o where_o any_o one_o repâ—…nts_n the_o church_n receive_v he_o so_o that_o in_o substitute_v the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o civil_a power_n for_o want_n of_o spiritual_a to_o make_v it_o as_o available_a for_o those_o spiritual_a end_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o leave_v the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n and_o to_o take_v up_o other_o and_o i_o will_v desire_v you_o to_o answer_v i_o whether_o the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o such_o end_n and_o use_n or_o the_o improper_a remedy_n nay_o remedy_n appoint_v and_o intend_v main_o for_o other_o end_n be_v most_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o accomplish_v those_o end_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o part_n of_o a_o proper_a remedy_n be_v assist_v and_o back_v with_o a_o great_a proportion_n of_o a_o remedy_n of_o another_o nature_n and_o kind_n can_v be_v as_o effectual_a as_o the_o whole_a remedy_n and_o mean_n as_o for_o instance_n whether_o a_o little_a grace_n assist_v by_o civility_n and_o fairness_n of_o nature_n will_v do_v as_o much_o to_o overcome_v lust_n and_o destroy_v the_o flesh_n as_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o grace_n that_o saint_n may_v attain_v unto_o and_o whether_o a_o little_a spiritual_a knowledge_n second_v with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o common_a and_o outward_a ecclesiast_n knowledge_n be_v as_o available_a for_o a_o christian_a conversation_n as_o great_a measure_n of_o spiritual_a knowledge_n though_o a_o man_n have_v but_o a_o little_a knowledge_n in_o philosophy_n physic_n law_n etc._n etc._n but_o more_o particular_o to_o let_v you_o see_v that_o your_o recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o that_o of_o excommunication_n and_o presbyterial_a government_n i_o shall_v commend_v to_o your_o consideration_n these_o eight_o follow_v particular_n first_o there_o may_v be_v many_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n meddle_v not_o with_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o his_o cognisance_n if_o you_o will_v have_v recourse_n to_o he_o or_o if_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v pronounce_v against_o a_o church_n because_o of_o impenitency_n in_o they_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v to_o assist_v and_o back_o it_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o such_o thing_n which_o yet_o be_v spiritual_a evil_n and_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v deal_v with_o to_o recover_v man_n out_o of_o they_o learned_a zanchius_n in_o his_o difference_n that_o he_o give_v between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o magistrate_n censure_n observe_v this_o for_o a_o special_a one_o there_o be_v many_o wickedness_n against_o which_o the_o magistrate_n true_o christian_n do_v not_o use_v to_o proceed_v neither_o be_v bind_v by_o his_o law_n as_o for_o instance_n private_a fall_n out_o hatred_n &c_n &c_n as_o also_o many_o evil_a manner_n both_o domestical_a and_o public_a which_o do_v not_o disturb_v the_o public_a peace_n or_o the_o public_a good_a but_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o bare_a these_o but_o to_o correct_v they_o according_a to_o christ_n institution_n now_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n here_o your_o recourse_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n with_o the_o magistrate_n back_v non-communion_n fail_v you_o and_o conduce_v nothing_o at_o all_o second_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v of_o those_o church_n and_o chief_a in_o those_o sin_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o which_o non-communion_n be_v denounce_v against_o those_o church_n as_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o how_o will_v you_o have_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n now_o back_v and_o assist_v both_o those_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n member_n of_o they_o shall_v have_v nothing_o to_o back_o non-communion_n to_o make_v it_o equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n nay_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o who_o bring_v in_o more_o of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o excommunication_n where_o the_o particular_a church_n will_v not_o and_o the_o class_n may_v not_o what_o shall_v be_v do_v with_o the_o magistrate_n offend_v what_o mean_n have_v god_n leave_v for_o the_o recovery_n of_o they_o you_o can_v imagine_v they_o will_v make_v use_n of_o their_o power_n against_o themselves_o now_o if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o censure_n as_o of_o excommunication_n this_o principle_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n fall_v short_a here_o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o be_v a_o remedy_n and_o redress_v for_o all_o and_o certain_o god_n way_n of_o govern_v his_o church_n provide_v for_o all_o whereas_o you_o fall_v short_a 3._o what_o if_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n denounce_v against_o a_o church_n or_o church_n the_o magistrate_n judge_v otherwise_o and_o hold_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n unjust_a and_o will_v not_o assist_v it_o which_o may_v ordinary_o fall_v out_o what_o effectual_a mean_n have_v the_o offend_a church_n of_o be_v reduce_v now_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n may_v the_o magistrate_n revoke_v that_o sentence_n of_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o declare_v it_o null_a and_o cause_v the_o church_n who_o pass_v the_o sentence_n to_o recall_v it_o and_o to_o continue_v their_o communion_n and_o suppose_v those_o church_n will_v not_o revoke_v it_o but_o stand_v to_o their_o act_n what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n who_o must_v judge_v now_o between_o these_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n may_v the_o magistrate_n now_o by_o his_o power_n which_o you_o give_v he_o in_o ecclesiastical_n instead_o of_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o a_o church_n miscarry_v as_o the_o church_n suppose_v now_o turn_v his_o power_n against_o the_o church_n for_o denounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n vojust_o as_o the_o magistrate_n judge_v and_o not_o only_o declare_v it_o void_a but_o punish_v this_o church_n or_o church_n for_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o declare_v and_o protest_v to_o all_o other_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o if_o all_o the_o church_n protest_v to_o will_v continue_v to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n censure_v with_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n notwithstanding_o the_o magistrate_n refuse_v to_o assist_v that_o sentence_n nay_o though_o he_o declare_v it_o void_a or_o what_o if_o upon_o the_o magistrate_n declaration_n some_o of_o the_o church_n give_v the_o righ-hand_n of_o fellowship_n again_o but_o other_o will_v not_o what_o must_v the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n do_v in_o these_o case_n and_o the_o like_a consider_v well_o of_o it_o whether_o this_o effectual_a way_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n instead_o of_o a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o relieve_v injure_a person_n or_o reduce_v church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o mean_n of_o great_a difference_n and_o division_n as_o well_o between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o between_o the_o church_n themselves_o 4._o must_v the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o persist_v therein_o upon_o the_o come_n of_o it_o to_o he_o and_o so_o punish_v it_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o he_o judge_n meet_v without_o first_o hear_v what_o the_o church_n can_v say_v for_o itself_o or_o must_v he_o first_o hear_v they_o both_o and_o in_o case_n more_o church_n mutual_o renounce_v communion_n with_o one_o another_o and_o protest_v against_o each_o other_o with_o other_o particular_n instance_a in_o about_o the_o remedy_n of_o non-communion_n under_o the_o four_o general_a head_n what_o shall_v he_o do_v in_o these_o case_n must_v he_o hear_v all_o 5._o what_o magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n do_v you_o mean_v to_o who_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n you_o will_v have_v recourse_n unto_o and_o that_o must_v assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v you_o mean_v the_o supreme_a and_o chief_a magistrate_n the_o high_a power_n only_o or_o all_o inferior_a magistrate_n in_o their_o several_a station_n and_o division_n where_o these_o thing_n fall_v out_o as_o major_n of_o city_n and_o town_n justice_n of_o peace_n and_o such_o magistrate_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v the_o christian_n protestant_n magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_n popish_a arrian_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n erect_v in_o every_o division_n of_o the_o county_n to_o hear_v the_o difference_n that_o fall_v out_o between_o church_n offend_v one_o with_o another_o etc._n etc._n or_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v if_o you_o understand_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n
to_o their_o minister_n and_o pastor_n with_o other_o such_o like_a 8._o but_o in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o difference_n upon_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n what_o be_v it_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o and_o what_o will_v you_o allow_v he_o to_o do_v and_o what_o be_v that_o power_n you_o will_v give_v he_o in_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n upon_o his_o judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o how_o far_o and_o in_o what_o will_v you_o obey_v he_o that_o so_o we_o may_v understand_v how_o this_o civil_a power_n be_v intend_v by_o you_o for_o a_o remedy_n and_o help_v in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n for_o instance_n will_v you_o submit_v not_o to_o gather_v church_n nor_o set_v up_o assembly_n withoâ—…â—…is_o leave_v and_o upon_o complaint_n of_o the_o many_o mischief_n and_o difference_n occasion_v thereupon_o will_v you_o upon_o his_o hear_v both_o side_n and_o judge_v that_o those_o who_o be_v gather_v shall_v be_v dissolve_v dissolve_v they_o and_o not_o meet_v in_o those_o way_n any_o more_o will_v you_o upon_o some_o member_n complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n of_o some_o minister_n or_o minister_n in_o their_o church_n for_o preach_v erroneous_a and_o unprofitable_a doctrine_n mere_a novelty_n subtlety_n and_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n judge_v that_o he_o shall_v preach_v no_o more_o will_v the_o minister_n forbear_v upon_o it_o or_o the_o church_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o case_n the_o minister_n will_v not_o yield_v will_v the_o church_n now_o go_v choose_v a_o new_a and_o orthodox_n minister_n upon_o it_o or_o in_o case_n a_o member_n or_o more_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v and_o they_o complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n who_o call_v the_o church_n to_o account_v and_o hear_v both_o side_n shall_v judge_v on_o the_o complaiants_n side_n and_o now_o order_v the_o church_n to_o absolve_v he_o and_o order_v they_o to_o confess_v their_o sin_n public_o and_o appoint_v they_o to_o keep_v a_o day_n of_o humiliation_n for_o it_o and_o order_v they_o to_o give_v he_o such_o a_o sum_n of_o money_n for_o the_o wrong_n trouble_n and_o loss_n of_o his_o time_n in_o follow_v the_o business_n against_o they_o will_v the_o church_n now_o submit_v to_o do_v all_o this_o yea_o or_o no_o what_o say_v you_o to_o these_o and_o the_o like_a case_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o this_o in_o the_o close_a because_o you_o pretend_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v he_o much_o power_n which_o though_o you_o do_v grant_v yet_o for_o the_o many_o reason_n and_o ground_n already_o specify_v this_o will_v not_o countervail_v the_o way_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o their_o spiritual_a censure_n by_o presbyter_n and_o synod_n whether_o you_o clear_o and_o plain_o allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n because_o i_o find_v in_o manuscript_n and_o hear_v that_o in_o sermon_n by_o man_n of_o your_o churchway_n the_o contrary_a be_v public_o preach_v and_o hold_v as_o for_o example_n in_o that_o treatise_n about_o a_o church_n which_o go_v under_o one_o of_o your_o name_n there_o be_v this_o passage_n with_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n the_o saint_n need_v not_o expect_v their_o power_n or_o leave_v for_o to_o gather_v together_o so_o as_o without_o it_o such_o a_o combination_n be_v unlawful_a nor_o shall_v they_o forbear_v it_o out_o of_o conscience_n of_o the_o magistrate_n prohibition_n indeed_o if_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v force_v or_o compel_v they_o to_o forbear_v or_o persecute_v they_o they_o may_v forbear_v actual_a assemble_v act._n 8._o 1._o not_o because_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o but_o in_o mercy_n to_o themselves_o and_o indeed_o about_o a_o church_n christian_n magistrate_n have_v no_o more_o power_n then_o heathen_a magistrate_n have_v so_o that_o this_o be_v speak_v by_o you_o where_o magistrate_n be_v christian_n and_o where_o church_n be_v already_o settle_v and_o add_v to_o this_o that_o m._n s._n in_o his_o reply_n in_o defence_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v against_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o that_o you_o all_o hold_v a_o toleration_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v man_n or_o punish_v they_o for_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o conscience_n how_o then_o notwithstanding_o all_o your_o discourse_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n which_o add_v to_o non-communion_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o relieve_v person_n injure_v to_o reduce_v church_n and_o person_n go_v in_o schism_n and_o error_n shall_v person_n injure_v be_v remedy_v or_o church_n and_o person_n reduce_v for_o suppose_v the_o person_n or_o church_n that_o now_o fall_v into_o such_o error_n and_o schism_n will_v pretend_v nay_o it_o be_v so_o real_o that_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n hold_v error_n for_o truth_n and_o thereupon_o withdraw_v from_o such_o church_n to_o other_o nay_o suppose_v those_o who_o now_o receive_v these_o new_a truth_n shall_v cast_v out_o of_o their_o fellowship_n and_o excommunicate_v some_o for_o hold_v otherwise_o as_o for_o instance_n a_o church_n fall_v into_o antinomianisme_n shall_v censure_v some_o of_o their_o member_n that_o remain_v orthodox_n for_o legal_a christian_n and_o for_o be_v enemy_n to_o freegrace_n and_o shall_v judge_v themselves_o bind_v to_o do_v so_o in_o these_o and_o such_o like_a case_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o for_o miscarry_v church_n by_o all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n you_o pretend_v to_o give_v to_o he_o but_o this_o be_v bring_v in_o here_o by_o you_o and_o give_v to_o he_o to_o put_v of_o that_o strong_a argument_n against_o your_o way_n and_o that_o you_o may_v have_v something_o for_o present_a to_o blind_v the_o eye_n and_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o many_o that_o look_v no_o further_o that_o it_o may_v serve_v your_o turn_n at_o such_o a_o straight_o whereas_o upon_o other_o principle_n you_o deny_v the_o magistrate_n this_o when_o it_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o now_o by_o all_o the_o several_a particular_n under_o this_o five_o head_n the_o understand_a reader_n may_v observe_v that_o not_o only_o in_o many_o respect_v your_o non-communion_n and_o magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o a_o remedy_n comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n not_o proper_a nor_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o thing_n in_o question_n a_o way_n in_o stead_n of_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n redress_v and_o mend_v matter_n amiss_o that_o will_v be_v but_o the_o begin_n of_o more_o strife_n and_o make_v more_o difference_n and_o evil_n then_o either_o it_o sinde_n or_o can_v heal_v the_o mother_n and_o nurse_n of_o confusion_n disorder_n and_o endless_a contention_n but_o also_o that_o all_o the_o power_n here_o pretend_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o examination_n be_v no_o such_o matter_n nor_o will_v not_o amount_v to_o make_v good_a the_o end_n propound_v whereas_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o scandalize_v as_o either_o whole_o inconsistent_a with_o this_o form_n of_o civil_a government_n or_o else_o not_o give_v it_o its_o due_a will_v be_v find_v by_o its_o principle_n not_o only_o to_o have_v powerful_a spiritual_a remedy_n for_o all_o spiritual_a evil_n of_o the_o church_n but_o will_v be_v find_v in_o many_o respect_n to_o make_v use_n of_o and_o to_o give_v honour_n and_o power_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o a_o nurse_n father_n from_o first_o to_o last_o even_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n beyond_o you_o beside_o what_o they_o give_v more_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n in_o a_o church_n miserable_o corrupt_v disorder_a etc._n etc._n of_o which_o the_o reader_n may_v read_v at_o large_a in_o apollonius_n who_o be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a cap._n 2._o and_o so_o learned_a 83._o zanchius_n in_o his_o tractate_n de_fw-fr magistratis_n show_v it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n not_o to_o suffer_v heretic_n nor_o erroneous_a person_n to_o preach_v and_o he_o give_v he_o coactive_a punitive_a power_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o beza_n a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o his_o epistle_n and_o other_o write_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n do_v not_o exclude_v the_o magistrate_n but_o give_v he_o that_o power_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o you_o deny_v but_o beside_o that_o power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n they_o stand_v for_o as_o needful_a in_o the_o church_n class_n and_o synod_n for_o the_o government_n of_o it_o zanchy_a show_v that_o discipline_n can_v 713._o take_v place_n where_o the_o minister_n never_o meet_v together_o the_o meâ—…ting_n of_o minister_n and_o ecclesiastical_a synod_n we_o judge_v most_o necessary_a as_o no_o polity_n commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n can_v consist_v without_o their_o meeting_n senate_n and_o counsel_n
so_o there_o be_v need_n of_o synod_n for_o the_o govern_n of_o the_o church_n and_o for_o the_o prevent_n of_o herâ—…fies_v in_o a_o word_n all_o thing_n be_v loose_a in_o independent_a government_n every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n if_o they_o like_v not_o any_o church_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n they_o may_v go_v to_o another_o nay_o a_o few_o in_o a_o church_n dislike_a that_o church_n may_v go_v make_v a_o church_n themselves_o and_o make_v minister_n and_o hold_v what_o they_o will_v as_o mr_n sympson_n do_v with_o some_o few_o more_o and_o since_o some_o have_v rend_v from_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o he_o from_o mr_n bridge_n the_o rule_v they_o go_v by_o be_v loose_a nothing_o be_v fix_v nor_o certain_a among_o they_o and_o there_o can_v be_v no_o settledness_n of_o mind_n nor_o consistence_n of_o principle_n in_o that_o way_n simple_a and_o well_o mean_v people_n according_a to_o their_o principle_n must_v be_v draw_v till_o they_o come_v to_o that_o to_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a church_n nor_o minister_n at_o all_o yet_o upon_o the_o earth_n which_o principle_n begin_v to_o take_v and_o spread_v already_o among_o many_o independent_o in_o a_o word_n that_o liberty_n and_o looseness_n which_o be_v from_o first_o to_o last_o in_o independent_a government_n hold_v no_o authoritative_a ecclesiastical_a power_n out_o of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o remedy_n or_o prevent_v any_o matter_n and_o that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n be_v on_o many_o ground_n and_o principle_n of_o they_o so_o slight_a and_o weak_a as_o the_o only_a subject_n of_o excommunication_n be_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n than_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n as_o that_o two_o or_o three_o saint_n or_o now_o of_o late_a six_o or_o seven_o may_v withdraw_v from_o church_n defective_a and_o impure_a and_o make_v church_n and_o choose_v all_o officer_n etc._n etc._n with_o other_o like_a so_o that_o what_o need_v they_o care_v then_o for_o that_o church_n of_o which_o they_o be_v member_n though_o cast_v out_o see_v they_o can_v make_v new_a and_o have_v all_o to_o their_o own_o mind_n be_v chief_a there_o be_v a_o dangerous_a temptation_n even_o to_o sober_a man_n to_o make_v they_o presume_v to_o broach_v that_o practise_v that_o which_o else_o they_o will_v never_o have_v do_v but_o in_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n there_o be_v consistence_n unity_n and_o strength_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o a_o hundred_o year_n visible_a experience_n of_o god_n blessing_n from_o heaven_n upon_o they_o there_o be_v also_o a_o certainty_n and_o fixedness_n of_o rule_n agree_v on_o both_o for_o particular_a congregation_n for_o class_n and_o synod_n there_o be_v a_o aw_v and_o preserve_v of_o officer_n and_o people_n in_o their_o bound_n and_o keep_v they_o from_o run_v out_o to_o error_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o man_n be_v he_o never_o so_o able_a or_o subtle_a that_o can_v escape_v call_v to_o account_n and_o censure_n magistrate_n and_o minister_n have_v their_o power_n in_o the_o church_n without_o usurpation_n and_o confusion_n and_o to_o conclude_v in_o the_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n be_v magistrate_n and_o civil_a power_n acquaint_v with_o this_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n they_o will_v find_v their_o authority_n increase_v their_o work_n more_o easy_a and_o their_o place_n more_o comfortable_a thereby_o and_o now_o have_v give_v a_o answer_n to_o that_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n under_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n by_o speak_v full_o of_o those_o five_o head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o your_o discourse_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n begin_v in_o pag._n 12._o and_o end_v in_o the_o 21._o i_o will_v for_o a_o close_o speak_v something_o to_o some_o of_o your_o passage_n contain_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o narration_n which_o can_v not_o so_o well_o be_v take_v in_o nor_o so_o proper_o animadvert_v upon_o under_o those_o five_o head_n without_o the_o reader_n be_v much_o confound_v and_o entangle_v 1._o to_o that_o passage_n p._n 14._o we_o have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o time_n we_o be_v abroad_o three_o elder_n at_o least_o in_o each_o congregation_n who_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o i_o ask_v if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n you_o many_o time_n have_v but_o three_o and_o sometime_o but_o two_o nay_o one_o elder_a the_o government_n of_o your_o church_n then_o be_v either_o monarchical_a government_n or_o oligarchicall_a at_o best_a and_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n who_o be_v the_o elder_n subject_n to_o the_o elder_n than_o be_v under_o no_o subjection_n but_o if_o the_o church_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n and_o not_o the_o elder_n to_o the_o church_n riddle_n i_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o all_o those_o phrase_n the_o church_n still_o do_v so_o and_o so_o not_o the_o elder_n the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n depose_v m._n ward_n and_o not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o elder_a or_o two_o and_o so_o m._n nye_n and_o m._n goodwin_n the_o minister_n be_v send_v by_o the_o church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v confess_v their_o sin_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o which_o sure_o be_v not_o m._n bridge_n and_o a_o lay-elder_n or_o two_o 2._o to_o those_o passage_n of_o church_n offend_v call_v to_o a_o account_n church_n offend_v proceed_v to_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n to_o judiciarie_n charge_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o before_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n about_o they_o enjoin_v it_o and_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v censurable_a by_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o i_o desire_v to_o put_v this_o disjunctive_a proposition_n either_o this_o power_n of_o call_v to_o a_o account_n examine_v depose_v witness_n censure_v they_o etc._n etc._n be_v act_n of_o rule_v and_o government_n and_o in_o the_o church_n challenge_v act_n of_o subjection_n or_o they_o be_v not_o if_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v act_n of_o rule_n and_o government_n than_o there_o be_v a_o authoritative_a power_n which_o church_n have_v out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o you_o grant_v it_o in_o such_o act_n at_o least_o though_o not_o in_o that_o of_o excommunication_n but_o whether_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o these_o that_o of_o excommunication_n will_v not_o follow_v let_v it_o be_v consider_v for_o either_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o found_v upon_o the_o common_a ground_n on_o which_o calling_n to_o account_n and_o some_o censure_n be_v or_o else_o there_o be_v some_o proper_a peculiar_a ground_n in_o the_o nature_n of_o that_o ordinance_n or_o in_o the_o scripture_n forbid_v that_o though_o allow_v other_o neither_o of_o which_o will_v be_v find_v to_o have_v a_o foundation_n in_o scripture_n and_o if_o so_o why_o then_o do_v you_o make_v all_o this_o ado_n of_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n within_o yourselves_o and_o be_v against_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n in_o class_n and_o presbytery_n to_o do_v that_o constant_o certain_o and_o present_o upon_o scandal_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o church_n which_o you_o do_v at_o best_a but_o at_o uncertainty_n and_o after_o a_o long_a time_n when_o the_o remedy_n may_v come_v too_o late_o a_o year_n or_o two_o afterward_o but_o if_o you_o answer_v these_o be_v no_o act_n of_o government_n and_o rule_n in_o this_o church_n or_o church_n but_o mere_o act_n of_o consultation_n advice_n persuasion_n and_o that_o when_o the_o church_n offend_v have_v hear_v all_o they_o only_o give_v their_o counsel_n and_o advice_n and_o commend_v it_o to_o they_o but_o it_o be_v in_o their_o liberty_n to_o do_v or_o not_o to_o do_v for_o though_o they_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n and_o open_a trial_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o submission_n yet_o they_o submit_v not_o to_o stand_v to_o the_o determination_n and_o agreement_n of_o that_o church_n or_o church_n i_o answer_v if_o you_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o the_o bare_a power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n in_o all_o this_o and_o no_o power_n of_o authoritative_a determination_n and_o decision_n this_o be_v no_o more_o nor_o you_o give_v no_o more_o to_o the_o church_n offend_v then_o to_o particular_a christian_n who_o may_v counsel_v they_o in_o such_o case_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o hold_v out_o such_o word_n and_o your_o practice_n of_o a_o full_a and_o
all_o under_o his_o power_n and_o charge_n to_o worship_n god_n upon_o which_o learned_a divine_n as_o zanchius_n excellent_o show_v the_o duty_n of_o magistrate_n in_o reference_n to_o command_v and_o provide_v that_o their_o people_n shall_v worship_v god_n according_a to_o his_o will_n rom._n 13._o 4._o ephes._n 5._o 11._o 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o 2_o john_n 11._o v_o revel_n 〈◊〉_d 20._o with_o many_o other_o place_n in_o scripture_n of_o remove_v away_o of_o evil_a and_o of_o not_o consent_v to_o evil_n &c_n &c_n the_o parliament_n be_v bind_v to_o establish_v and_o to_o command_v obedience_n to_o that_o reformation_n which_o be_v judge_v most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n and_o to_o suppress_v and_o hinder_v all_o other_o it_o be_v excellent_o do_v by_o the_o parliament_n to_o call_v together_o so_o many_o able_a godly_a and_o orthodox_n divine_v to_o debate_v and_o find_v out_o the_o mind_n and_o will_n of_o god_n for_o doctrine_n worship_n and_o discipline_n and_o to_o give_v liberty_n to_o man_n of_o different_a judgement_n to_o bring_v in_o their_o ground_n and_o after_o all_o way_n of_o enquiry_n and_o search_v into_o truth_n and_o a_o model_n draw_v up_o for_o they_o upon_o good_a ground_n be_v satisfy_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n by_o their_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o bind_v man_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o not_o to_o tolerate_v any_o other_o doctrine_n church_n worship_n or_o government_n to_o be_v set_v up_o and_o exercise_v you_o ought_v not_o to_o suffer_v the_o weak_a to_o be_v destroy_v nor_o the_o people_n to_o be_v draw_v away_o by_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n but_o when_o once_o upon_o good_a ground_n the_o reformation_n be_v conclude_v you_o must_v defend_v it_o against_o troublesome_a and_o turbulent_a spirit_n and_o in_o so_o do_v god_n will_v be_v with_o you_o and_o subdue_v the_o people_n under_o you_o whereas_o if_o to_o please_v some_o people_n you_o suffer_v they_o to_o enjoy_v their_o own_o way_n god_n will_v not_o be_v well_o please_v with_o it_o neither_o can_v you_o answer_v it_o unto_o god_n you_o may_v lawful_o nay_o you_o ought_v in_o that_o which_o be_v good_a to_o compel_v man_n though_o they_o pretend_v conscience_n shall_v the_o error_n of_o other_o man_n conscience_n hindr_v you_o from_o yield_v that_o service_n which_o god_n requite_v of_o you_o may_v a_o parliament_n displease_v god_n to_o please_v man_n or_o may_v they_o be_v pleaseâ—…s_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n and_o wink_v at_o evil_a to_o content_v some_o person_n no_o parliament_n in_o make_v law_n for_o religion_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o will_n of_o god_n â—…led_v in_o his_o word_n in_o the_o best_a and_o 〈◊〉_d way_n communicate_v to_o they_o and_o not_o upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o some_o people_n 〈◊〉_d the_o toleration_n desire_v be_v against_o the_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n for_o reformation_n take_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o kingdom_n â—…on_n of_o england_n and_o scotland_n and_o 〈◊〉_d be_v coâ—…ed_v to_o without_o 〈◊〉_d of_o that_o oath_n and_o covenant_n so_o that_o the_o apology_n and_o motion_n for_o a_o toleration_n come_v â—…o_o late_o the_o door_n be_v shut_v against_o it_o the_o kingdom_n hand_n be_v bind_v so_o that_o if_o such_o a_o toleration_n be_v not_o in_o itâ—…_n self_n unlawful_a and_o against_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o magistrate_n yet_o now_o because_o of_o the_o oath_n and_o covenant_n it_o be_v unlawful_a so_o that_o whatever_o may_v have_v be_v grant_v before_o can_v now_o lest_o the_o kingdom_n shall_v be_v guilty_a before_o god_n of_o covenant-breaking_a now_o aâ—…_n toleration_n and_o this_o move_n for_o a_o toleration_n by_o the_o apologist_n be_v express_o against_o these_o branch_n of_o the_o covenant_n 1._o against_o that_o clause_n in_o the_o first_o branch_n of_o endeavour_v the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n and_o ixeland_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n government_n and_o discipline_n according_a to_o 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the_o extirpation_n of_o schism_n and_o whatever_o shall_v be_v find_v contrary_a to_o find_v doctrine_n and_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n lest_o we_o partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n now_o that_o which_o you_o move_v for_o be_v schism_n and_o contrary_a to_o sound_v doctrine_n the_o churchway_n be_v a_o schism_n beside_o many_o of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v against_o sound_a doctrine_n and_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n as_o that_o in_o your_o apology_n about_o the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n as_o that_o of_o a_o few_o people_n have_v power_n to_o join_v together_o and_o set_v up_o a_o church_n and_o choose_v what_o minister_n they_o will_v as_o that_o of_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n from_o any_o authenitative_a power_n etc._n etc._n so_o that_o the_o parliament_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o their_o reformation_n and_o bless_a conjunction_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n with_o the_o reform_a church_n shall_v in_o allow_v you_o 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unless_o they_o be_v church_n member_n with_o many_o more_o all_o slat_n against_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n have_v ever_o be_v from_o first_o to_o last_o a_o fountain_n of_o evil_a and_o a_o root_n of_o bitterness_n of_o many_o bitter_a division_n and_o separation_n among_o themselves_o of_o manifold_a error_n and_o other_o mischief_n in_o those_o church_n and_o place_n where_o they_o live_v god_n have_v always_o witness_n against_o it_o and_o never_o blessing_n it_o with_o peace_n and_o truth_n i_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o relate_v the_o history_n of_o the_o anaptist_n the_o high_a form_n of_o independency_n and_o the_o church_n way_n what_o evil_n they_o fall_v into_o and_o the_o mischief_n they_o bring_v upon_o germany_n and_o how_o god_n curse_a and_o scatter_v they_o as_o for_o the_o brownist_n the_o middle_a form_n of_o independency_n the_o apologist_n themselves_o confess_v they_o have_v fatal_a miscarriage_n and_o shipwreck_n and_o i_o can_v tell_v a_o sad_a story_n but_o 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by_o compare_v some_o letter_n from_o thence_o in_o those_o time_n write_v by_o minister_n over_o into_o england_n and_o mr_n cotton_v late_a book_n will_v be_v evident_a in_o a_o word_n he_o that_o will_v observe_v it_o shall_v find_v the_o end_n of_o independency_n infinite_a schism_n separation_n error_n inconstancy_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o judgement_n yea_o barbarism_n and_o confusion_n and_o the_o toleration_n of_o it_o by_o this_o state_n will_v be_v the_o open_n of_o a_o sloud-gate_n to_o many_o other_o error_n and_o evil_n beside_o what_o evil_a be_v in_o that_o be_v a_o way_n all_o along_o wherein_o it_o â—…iffers_v from_o the_o reform_a church_n either_o beside_o or_o against_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o shall_v the_o parliament_n which_o god_n forbid_v and_o i_o hope_n be_v far_o from_o their_o thought_n give_v the_o independent_o a_o toleration_n of_o their_o way_n and_o church_n they_o shall_v give_v they_o know_v noâ—…_n what_o have_v never_o yet_o speak_v out_o all_o that_o they_o hold_v this_o apology_n contain_v but_o a_o little_a part_n of_o their_o way_n beside_o take_v in_o their_o second_o great_a principle_n page_n 10._o apolog_fw-la of_o not_o make_v their_o present_a judgement_n and_o practice_v a_o bind_a law_n for_o the_o future_a the_o parliament_n may_v grant_v gross_a brownism_n anabaptism_n within_o a_o short_a time_n many_o fall_n off_o according_a their_o principle_n of_o new_a light_n to_o cast_v off_o communion_n with_o their_o own_o church_n as_o some_o of_o mr_n sympson_n have_v do_v and_o let_v it_o be_v but_o remember_v what_o i_o now_o write_v whether_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n if_o they_o come_v not_o in_o and_o join_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n do_v not_o within_o a_o few_o year_n go_v a_o great_a way_n further_o i_o think_v have_v they_o stay_v together_o in_o holland_n till_o this_o time_n without_o any_o hope_n of_o a_o toleration_n here_o some_o of_o they_o have_v go_v far_o by_o this_o time_n of_o day_n anoint_v with_o oil_n be_v begin_v to_o be_v bring_v in_o hymn_n have_v be_v move_v for_o in_o one_o of_o their_o church_n and_o if_o i_o may_v believe_v the_o report_n of_o a_o religious_a person_n in_o a_o open_a company_n affirm_v it_o again_o and_o again_o when_o i_o doubt_v it_o that_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o aâ—…nheim_n who_o be_v also_o name_v to_o i_o relate_v that_o have_v they_o stay_v there_o a_o little_a long_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hymn_n have_v be_v practise_v among_o they_o one_o be_v choose_v and_o agree_v upon_o by_o the_o church_n to_o exercise_v that_o ordinance_n and_o i_o be_o able_a to_o demonstrate_v it_o that_o the_o apologist_n keep_v but_o to_o their_o principle_n beside_o the_o principle_n of_o a_o reserve_v must_v yet_o go_v a_o great_a way_n further_o and_o suppose_v the_o parliament_n shall_v make_v a_o proposition_n to_o they_o we_o will_v grant_v you_o this_o and_o this_o and_o so_o which_o be_v the_o present_n principlâ—…s_v you_o hold_v forth_o but_o if_o you_o bring_v in_o any_o thing_n more_o or_o go_v far_o than_o your_o church_n shall_v be_v dessolve_v and_o we_o will_v recall_v what_o we_o grant_v you_o because_o we_o will_v be_v sure_a to_o know_v what_o we_o allow_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n be_v at_o a_o certainty_n for_o that_o i_o do_v not_o think_v the_o apologist_n will_v accept_v of_o a_o toleration_n upon_o those_o term_n and_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o beginning_n of_o error_n common_o be_v most_o modest_a but_o let_v alone_o some_o time_n they_o exceed_v all_o bound_n how_o far_o most_o of_o the_o arminian_n proceed_v beyond_o what_o arminius_n hold_v or_o themselves_o at_o first_o the_o learned_a book_n of_o many_o divine_n and_o experience_n show_v and_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v to_o the_o apologist_n and_o all_o those_o of_o their_o communion_n to_o exercise_v their_o conscience_n i_o fear_v before_o a_o year_n go_v about_o many_o will_v turn_v anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o desire_v rather_o to_o pray_v against_o a_o toleration_n then_o to_o prophesy_v of_o the_o evil_a of_o it_o but_o suppose_v the_o best_a that_o can_v be_v that_o the_o state_n have_v a_o assurance_n the_o apologist_n and_o their_o church_n will_v not_o go_v one_o step_n further_o than_o now_o they_o hold_v the_o toleration_n shall_v not_o be_v make_v use_n of_o to_o any_o further_a error_n yet_o the_o parliament_n shall_v not_o allow_v it_o unless_o they_o will_v grant_v a_o toleratiod_n of_o brownism_n and_o if_o brownisme_n be_v a_o bitter_a error_n and_o way_n than_o the_o way_n of_o the_o apologist_n be_v not_o very_o sweet_a their_o way_n be_v but_o brown_n young_a brother_n agree_v with_o the_o brownist_n in_o the_o nature_n and_o definition_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n in_o the_o way_n of_o make_v officer_n in_o the_o way_n of_o their_o ordinancâ—…s_n as_o prophesy_v in_o the_o way_n of_o form_n of_o prayer_n in_o the_o sacrament_n none_o to_o be_v admit_v but_o church_n member_n cum_fw-la multis_fw-la alijs_fw-la and_o i_o desire_v the_o apologist_n to_o give_v any_o material_a difference_n however_o their_o ground_n be_v different_a and_o they_o do_v not_o go_v so_o far_o in_o consequence_n nor_o be_v not_o so_o gross_a between_o their_o church_n and_o the_o brownist_n as_o for_o that_o of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o people_n and_o the_o officer_n in_o give_v the_o power_n to_o the_o officer_n but_o the_o brownist_n to_o the_o people_n i_o answer_v however_o the_o apologist_n differ_v in_o that_o point_n from_o the_o brownist_n in_o word_n phrase_n method_n and_o give_v we_o many_o fine_a word_n and_o flatter_a similitude_n go_v about_o yet_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o differ_v not_o in_o substance_n in_o their_o practice_n but_o all_o come_v to_o one_o end_n and_o
spread_v and_o they_o gain_v so_o many_o of_o the_o magistrate_n on_o their_o side_n we_o shall_v have_v find_v there_o will_v have_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o mr_n simpson_n to_o write_v thus_o as_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o low-countries_n where_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n papist_n and_o socinian_o in_o a_o word_n till_o the_o call_n of_o synod_n and_o the_o power_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v shake_v and_o some_o arminian_n by_o flattery_n and_o policy_n wrought_v to_o put_v by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n and_o appeal_v to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o mr_n simpson_n do_v in_o this_o apology_n from_o the_o assembly_n there_o be_v not_o so_o great_a a_o defection_n both_o of_o minister_n and_o people_n unto_o error_n in_o turn_v papist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 3._o though_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n in_o the_o low-countries_n as_o in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n beside_o the_o toleration_n there_o yet_o there_o be_v infinite_o few_o miscarriage_n in_o censure_n division_n error_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a church_n then_o in_o the_o independent_o there_o have_v be_v more_o contention_n miscarriagâ—…s_n fall_v into_o error_n in_o one_o small_a church_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n at_o amsterdam_n and_o that_o within_o less_o than_o one_o year_n then_o in_o all_o the_o church_n in_o some_o province_n i_o remember_v perfect_o i_o have_v read_v in_o mr_n pagett_v arrow_n against_o separation_n a_o man_n who_o live_v long_o in_o holland_n and_o much_o verse_v in_o the_o controversy_n how_o he_o show_v that_o out_o of_o a_o few_o member_n in_o the_o brownist_n church_n more_o fall_n to_o anabaptism_n etc._n etc._n then_o out_o of_o many_o thousand_o member_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a church_n among_o the_o dutch_a or_o out_o of_o all_o the_o english_a reform_a church_n there_o so_o that_o notwithstanding_o this_o new_a objection_n bring_v against_o presbyterial_a government_n if_o the_o parliament_n shall_v please_v to_o settle_v it_o and_o that_o in_o the_o full_a power_n and_o free_a use_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n deny_v also_o a_o toleration_n for_o independency_n unto_o which_o all_o erroneous_a and_o discontent_a spirit_n upon_o all_o occasion_n will_v flow_v and_o gather_v instead_o of_o open_v a_o wide_a gate_n for_o error_n division_n and_o many_o other_o mischief_n they_o shall_v lay_v a_o sure_a foundation_n for_o truth_n and_o peace_n in_o these_o church_n and_o in_o the_o last_o word_n of_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n i_o conclude_v this_o last_o reason_n against_o a_o toleration_n the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o god_n have_v bless_v with_o so_o much_o learning_n and_o piety_n by_o this_o reformation_n and_o uniformity_n with_o other_o reform_a church_n which_o all_o of_o we_o have_v solmne_o swear_v and_o subscribe_v to_o endeavour_v in_o our_o several_a place_n and_o calling_n shall_v be_v a_o praise_n in_o the_o earth_n now_o do_v not_o other_o occasion_n call_v i_o to_o take_v off_o my_o hand_n beside_o the_o book_n itself_o swell_v already_o to_o such_o a_o number_n of_o sheet_n i_o will_v have_v answer_v all_o the_o reason_n bring_v both_o for_o toleration_n in_o general_a and_o particular_o for_o the_o congregationall_a way_n as_o that_o man_n be_v to_o be_v persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o not_o compel_v as_o that_o the_o conscience_n be_v to_o be_v leave_v free_a as_o that_o the_o denial_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v be_v a_o great_a persecution_n as_o that_o this_o be_v the_o way_n to_o make_v man_n hypocrite_n as_o that_o god_n people_n be_v a_o willing_a people_n etc._n etc._n but_o reserve_v this_o to_o another_o season_n in_o the_o close_a of_o this_o discourse_n i_o will_v propound_v these_o follow_a question_n to_o the_o apologist_n 1._o whether_o the_o command_a of_o man_n by_o the_o power_n of_o law_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n to_o do_v the_o thing_n which_o god_n require_v of_o they_o with_o the_o use_n of_o outward_a mean_n to_o work_v they_o to_o it_o when_o unwilling_a be_v unlawful_a for_o the_o magistrate_n and_o against_o christian_a liberty_n yea_o or_o no_o 2._o in_o your_o move_n for_o a_o toleration_n do_v you_o desire_v it_o for_o you_o five_o only_o with_o those_o who_o be_v actual_o and_o will_v come_v in_o to_o be_v member_n of_o your_o church_n or_o for_o all_o the_o church_n who_o be_v of_o the_o same_o way_n and_o communion_n if_o for_o yourselves_o and_o church_n only_o which_o will_v be_v more_o tolerable_a a_o few_o then_o a_o great_a number_n and_o you_o be_v person_n of_o more_o worth_a than_o most_o of_o the_o other_o consider_v the_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n be_v against_o it_o that_o we_o shall_v without_o respect_n of_o person_n endeavour_v the_o extirpation_n of_o schism_n and_o whatsoever_o shall_v be_v find_v contrary_a to_o sound_v doctrine_n so_o that_o you_o can_v be_v tolerate_v more_o than_o other_o beside_o if_o that_o be_v grant_v you_o be_v but_o five_o minister_n and_o make_v up_o but_o three_o or_o four_o church_n the_o parliament_n will_v be_v never_o the_o near_o in_o give_v satisfaction_n for_o what_o shall_v become_v of_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o church_n in_o city_n and_o country_n of_o mr_n c._n mr_n b._n dr_n h._n mr_n l._n mr_n g._n master_n w._n etc._n etc._n the_o parliament_n will_v be_v account_v partial_a and_o further_o off_o from_o give_v content_a then_o if_o they_o grant_v none_o at_o all_o but_o if_o it_o be_v say_v you_o desire_v it_o for_o all_o church_n of_o your_o constitution_n i_o answer_v express_v so_o much_o under_o your_o hand_n and_o i_o will_v then_o give_v you_o a_o answer_n 3._o whether_o will_v you_o have_v a_o toleration_n grant_v in_o the_o general_a and_o indifferent_o for_o all_o conscience_n sect_n and_o opinion_n or_o only_o for_o some_o sort_n of_o opinion_n i_o suppose_v be_v wise_a man_n you_o will_v not_o express_v yourselves_o for_o a_o toleration_n in_o the_o first_o sense_n but_o in_o the_o latter_a i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o you_o then_o what_o limit_n and_o bound_n you_o will_v set_v and_o where_o the_o parliament_n shall_v stop_v and_o what_o rule_v you_o will_v give_v for_o this_o as_o first_o whether_o the_o limitation_n shall_v be_v a_o toleration_n only_o for_o all_o different_a form_n of_o church-government_n and_o order_n so_o long_o as_o they_o agree_v in_o doctrine_n with_o the_o church_n establish_v and_o be_v orthodox_n but_o not_o of_o doctrine_n now_o if_o you_o hold_v so_o than_o the_o brownist_n and_o the_o bishop_n with_o those_o who_o be_v for_o the_o hierarchy_n must_v be_v tolerate_v as_o well_o as_o you_o many_o episcopal_a man_n be_v sound_a in_o doctrine_n then_o some_o of_o your_o way_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o simple_a anabaptist_n and_o that_o sort_n of_o simple_a anabaptist_n call_v dipper_n will_v come_v in_o too_o say_v that_o baptism_n at_o such_o a_o age_n and_o baptise_v in_o river_n by_o dip_v be_v but_o matter_n of_o order_n and_o time_n and_o what_o if_o yet_o a_o new_a form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o way_n of_o external_a order_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o god_n ordinance_n be_v set_v up_o by_o some_o a_o way_n which_o have_v never_o yet_o be_v practise_v by_o any_o must_v that_o be_v tolerate_v also_o consider_v with_o yourselves_o whether_o there_o may_v not_o be_v a_o safe_a allowance_n of_o difference_n in_o some_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n then_o of_o different_a government_n as_o also_o what_o you_o have_v express_v of_o the_o consequence_n of_o church_n government_n and_o order_n and_o then_o resolve_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v have_v all_o form_n of_o church-government_n allow_v and_o in_o my_o rejoynder_n i_o will_v apply_v myself_o particular_o to_o show_v you_o the_o danger_n of_o that_o and_o how_o much_o hazard_n there_o be_v even_o of_o the_o doctrine_n from_o the_o discipline_n and_o order_n if_o that_o be_v not_o right_a or_o second_o will_v you_o have_v a_o toleration_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n too_o namely_o in_o lesser_a difference_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o you_o will_v make_v the_o rule_n and_o measure_n of_o those_o lesser_a difference_n whether_o whatever_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n and_o be_v not_o against_o the_o fundamental_o of_o doctrine_n and_o civil_a government_n or_o what_o else_o now_o if_o you_o mean_v so_o who_o shall_v determine_v and_o judge_v what_o may_v stand_v with_o save_v grace_n etc._n etc._n every_o heretic_n socinian_n etc._n etc._n will_v plead_v his_o opinion_n may_v and_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o many_o point_n and_o practice_n very_o bad_a and_o pernicious_a may_v not_o stand_v with_o save_v grace_n in_o some_o man_n at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n what_o say_v you_o to_o polygamy_n that_o have_v stand_v with_o save_v
nostris_fw-la qui_fw-la norant_a linguam_fw-la eelgicam_fw-la frequentant_fw-la sacran_n coenam_fw-la earum_fw-la membris_fw-la siqua_fw-la forte_fw-fr nostro_fw-la coetui_fw-la intersint_fw-la nobis_fw-la cognita_fw-la participamus_fw-la robin_n apolog._n apolog._n letter_n to_o mr_n king_n mr_n tost_n etc._n etc._n apolog._n tertul._n de_fw-fr resur_n carnâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d 3._o 3._o chamier_n panstrat_n cathol_n lib._n 8._o the_o canone_o cap._n 3._o 3._o whitak_n de_fw-fr script_n perfect_a quae_fw-la 6._o cap._n 14._o in_o soro_fw-la non_fw-la ex_fw-la jure_fw-la humano_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la lege_fw-la mosis_fw-la pronunciandum_fw-la esse_fw-la contendit_fw-la melch_n adam_n vit_fw-mi carolost_n schlusselburg_n de_fw-fr secta_fw-la schuvenckâ—…ld_n cameron_n sâ—…_n ver_fw-la judge_n in_o controver_n c._n 11._o chamier_n panstrat_n cathol_n de_fw-mi canone_o l._n 8._o c._n 1._o de_fw-la persectione_fw-la scripturae_fw-la statâ—…_n controversiae_fw-la sect._n 16._o cham._n de_fw-fr canone_o l._n 8._o c._n 2._o sect._n 20._o whitak_n de_fw-fr script_n perfect_a contra_fw-la hum._n tradit_fw-la quae_fw-la 6._o c._n 10._o whitak_n de_fw-fr script_n perfect_a quaest_n 6._o c._n 6._o status_fw-la quaestionis_fw-la proponitur_fw-la 6_o article_n of_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n for_o salvation_n vide_fw-la 39_o article_n of_o relig._n of_o ch._n of_o engl._n serm._n at_o public_a fast_n novemb_v 29_o 1643._o pag._n 26._o 26._o danaei_n comment_n in_o 1_o tim._n 5._o v._n 13._o &_o v_o 17._o cum_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d quadam_fw-la homines_fw-la omne_fw-la quae_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la temporibus_fw-la observata_fw-la suerant_fw-la sibi_fw-la putarent_fw-la imitanda_fw-la neque_fw-la locorum_fw-la neque_fw-la temporum_fw-la neque_fw-la rerum_fw-la dissâ—…nilium_fw-la rationem_fw-la baberent_fw-la eâ—…am_fw-la &_o ipsi_fw-la svas_fw-la dioconissas_n retinere_fw-la praecâ—…è_fw-la voluerunt_fw-la sed_fw-la cum_fw-la posterioribus_fw-la temporibus_fw-la etc._n etc._n et_fw-la certe_fw-la â—…is_fw-la impudentes_fw-la sunt_fw-la catabaptistae_fw-la qui_fw-la pauli_n facti_fw-la &_o exempli_fw-la praetexâ—…_n omnes_fw-la verbi_fw-la dei_fw-la ministros_fw-la ad_fw-la manualia_fw-la oâ—…era_fw-la cogendos_fw-la esse_fw-la contendunt_fw-la ut_fw-la victum_fw-la comparent_fw-la comparent_fw-la apostolici_fw-la inter_fw-la anabaptist_n as_o cognominati_fw-la sunt_fw-la quia_fw-la apostolos_fw-la aemulari_fw-la in_o omnibus_fw-la decreverunt_fw-la he_o nudam_fw-la scripturae_fw-la literam_fw-la tenere_fw-la se_fw-la jactabant_fw-la absque_fw-la baâ—…ulo_fw-la calceis_fw-la pera_fw-la pecunia_fw-la hinc_fw-la inde_fw-la vigabantur_fw-la juxta_fw-la christi_fw-la verba_fw-la ascendeâ—…ant_v in_o tecta_fw-la domorum_fw-la ex_fw-la quibus_fw-la habebant_fw-la conciones_fw-la quia_fw-la christus_fw-la dixisset_fw-la quae_fw-la in_o aurem_fw-la accepi_v be_v annunciate_n in_o tâ—…ctis_fw-la pedes_fw-la sibi_fw-la inuicem_fw-la lavabant_fw-la cum_fw-la pver_fw-la be_v repâ—…erascebant_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la pueriliter_fw-la se_fw-la gerebant_fw-la vxores_fw-la liberos_fw-la domuâ—…_n opificia_fw-la deserebant_fw-la quia_fw-la christus_fw-la dixisset_fw-la nisi_fw-la quis_fw-la reliquerit_fw-la doâ—…um_fw-la vxorem_fw-la etc._n etc._n propter_fw-la i_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la esse_fw-la meus_fw-la discipulus_fw-la schluâ—…leb_n de_fw-fr secta_fw-la anabaptist_n mr_n tho_n goodwin_n answer_v to_o a_o letter_n with_o a_o quâ—…re_n concern_v the_o church-covenant_n confident_a we_o be_v be_v confidence_n itself_o can_v make_v we_o that_o there_o be_v no_o commandment_n give_v to_o the_o church_n for_o exact_v any_o such_o covenant_n of_o those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v into_o church-fellowship_n with_o they_o quere_z concern_v the_o church-covenant_n apolog._n apolog._n 〈◊〉_d i._o g._n letter_n to_o t._n g._n apolog._n whitaker_n dâ—…_n eccles._n apolog._n manuscr_n arg._n of_o m._n nye_n against_o set-forme_n of_o prayer_n prescribe_v prescribe_v m._n william_n answer_n to_o mr_n cotton_v letter_n query_n propose_v upon_o occasion_n of_o a_o apologetical_a nâ—…ration_n robinsoni_fw-la apolog_fw-la cap._n 12._o de_fw-fr eccles._n anglic._n apolog._n reform_v of_o ch._n government_n in_o scotland_n clear_v pag._n 18._o dissert_n de_fw-fr gub._n ecclesiae_fw-la pag._n 11._o robin_n apol._n cap._n 1._o de_fw-fr eccles_n amplitudinâ—…_n amplitudinâ—…_n polit._n ecclesiast_n l._n 3._o c._n 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n â—…2_n â—…2_n polit._n eccles._n l._n 〈◊〉_d c._n 1._o 〈◊〉_d ball_n friendly_a trial_n of_o separation_n separation_n gersom_a bucerus_n dissert_n de_fw-fr gub._n eccles._n p._n 11._o nos_fw-la particularem_fw-la eccle_fw-la siam_fw-la intelligimus_fw-la quemlibet_fw-la credentium_fw-la câ—…tum_fw-la in_o unam_fw-la vocationem_fw-la divinam_fw-la evangelij_fw-la praedicatioâ—…e_fw-la sacrarumque_fw-la institutionum_fw-la observatione_fw-la adunatum_fw-la ac_fw-la uni_fw-la presbyterio_n subjunctum_fw-la sacros_fw-la vero_fw-la conventus_fw-la uno_fw-la out_o pluribus_fw-la locis_fw-la agitâ—…ntem_fw-la nam_fw-la paraeciarum_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la convenitur_fw-la numerus_fw-la accidentaria_fw-la res_fw-la est_fw-la nihil_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la particularis_fw-la essentiam_fw-la pertinens_fw-la m._n bridges_n letter_n to_o m._n toâ—…_n m._n smith_n m._n henry_n king_n etc._n etc._n the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n unless_o we_o say_v they_o be_v give_v to_o peter_n only_o and_o his_o successor_n search_v the_o scripture_n and_o see_v if_o you_o can_v find_v any_o place_n where_o any_o body_n or_o particular_a church_n be_v subject_a to_o one_o man_n or_o officer_n reform_v of_o ch._n government_n clear_v p._n 25._o 25._o robin_n justif._n of_o separat_fw-la separat_fw-la mr_n burrough_n on_o hosea_n seven_o lecture_n p._n 174._o if_o we_o consider_v the_o difference_n between_o ecclesiastical_a power_n and_o civil_a power_n we_o shall_v see_v it_o clear_a that_o there_o can_v be_v a_o ministeâ—…ll_a head_n of_o the_o church_n church_n ames_n med._n theol._n john_n 4_o 10_o 22._o apolog._n apolog._n robiâ—…s_n justif._n of_o separat_fw-la robiâ—…s_n catech._n a_o representative_a church_n in_o a_o case_n of_o faith_n and_o conscience_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o represent_v in_o the_o particular_a decree_n establish_v the_o popish_a doctrine_n of_o implicit_a faith_n faith_n voetius_fw-la select_a disput._n de_fw-fr quaestione_fw-la peâ—…es_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la thes_n 1._o thes._n 4_o thes._n 5._o ut_fw-mi auten_v n_o ovuâ—…_n hic_fw-la agendi_fw-la modus_fw-la colorem_fw-la aliquem_fw-la haberet_fw-la &_o tanto_fw-la facilius_fw-la multâ—…rum_fw-la politicorum_fw-la savour_n aut_fw-la saltem_fw-la tolerantia_fw-la remonstranticis_fw-la noviâ—…atibus_fw-la conciaretur_fw-la edituâ—…_n est_fw-la ab_fw-la johanne_n vttenbogardo_fw-it ecclesialiste_n tunc_fw-la hagâ—…_n cometano_fw-la tractatus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la eâ—…ita_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la grotij_fw-la piet_fw-la as_o ordinum_fw-la episcopij_fw-la disputatio_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlei_n declamatio_fw-la seu_fw-la philippica_fw-la quaedam_fw-la in_o ministros_fw-la qui_fw-la orthodoxam_fw-la &_o receptam_fw-la religionem_fw-la tuebantur_fw-la etc._n etc._n praeter_fw-la quae_fw-la vulgares_fw-la &_o vernaculi_fw-la libelli_fw-la quorum_fw-la numerus_fw-la innumerus_fw-la &_o consiones_fw-la remonstrantium_fw-la nihil_fw-la aliud_fw-la quam_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la &_o potestatem_fw-la magistratuum_fw-la perstrepebant_fw-la &_o nescio_fw-la qua_fw-la inuidia_fw-la orthodoxos_fw-la pastor_n â—…orumque_fw-la legitimos_fw-la coâ—…ventus_fw-la &_o actiones_fw-la ecclesiasticas_fw-la gravabant_fw-la et_fw-la hac_fw-la quidem_fw-la inprimis_fw-la in_o dictis_fw-la duabus_fw-la provincijâ—…_n na_o in_o geldria_n aliter_fw-la canebant_fw-la aut_fw-la mussitabant_fw-la quod_fw-la iii_o curja_n conatibus_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la minimè_fw-la faveret_fw-la idem_fw-la fere_n accidebat_fw-la in_o frisia_n amstelredami_fw-la atque_fw-la alibi_fw-la ubi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la omne_fw-la contra_fw-la presbyteria_fw-la &_o pastor_n non_fw-la statuebat_fw-la ex_fw-la 〈◊〉_d aut_fw-la in_o favorem_fw-la remonstrantium_fw-la post_fw-la habitam_fw-la synodum_fw-la dordracenam_fw-la libelli_fw-la ipsorum_fw-la vernaculi_fw-la longè_fw-la alio_fw-la stilo_fw-it conscripti_fw-la sunt_fw-la quin_fw-la &_o in_fw-la ipsa_fw-la apologia_fw-la quam_fw-la tamen_fw-la magistratibus_fw-la probari_fw-la volebant_fw-la cap._n 25._o potestatem_fw-la hanc_fw-la non_fw-la parum_fw-la limitant_n ac_fw-la contrahunt_fw-la quam_fw-la tamen_fw-la tam_fw-la liberaliter_fw-la ante_fw-la hac_fw-la ad_fw-la mensâ—…_n erant_fw-la erant_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcop_n constant._n magni_fw-la pag._n 3_o 4_o 5_o 6._o arminiani_n è_fw-la contrario_fw-la in_o excessu_fw-la peccant_a etenim_fw-la ante_fw-la synodum_fw-la dordracenam_fw-la contendebant_fw-la sub_fw-la magistratu_fw-la orthodoxo_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la nullam_fw-la babere_fw-la potestatem_fw-la spiritualem_fw-la ministros_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la officio_fw-la svo_fw-la defungi_fw-la nomine_fw-la magistratus_fw-la ita_fw-la ut_fw-la magistratus_fw-la quia_fw-la ipse_fw-la per_fw-la alia_fw-la negotia_fw-la concionari_fw-la etc._n etc._n non_fw-la possit_fw-la per_fw-la ministros_fw-la doceat_fw-la qui_fw-la vice_n ipsius_fw-la gerant_fw-la in_o docendo_fw-la quem_fw-la admndum_fw-la vicarius_fw-la trajani_n imperatoris_fw-la vice_n gerebat_fw-la svi_fw-la imperatoris_fw-la et_fw-la sic_fw-la ministros_fw-la non_fw-la habere_fw-la svam_fw-la potesâ—…atem_fw-la à _fw-la christo_fw-la sed_fw-la à _fw-la magistratu_fw-la qui_fw-la &_o quidem_fw-la solus_fw-la eam_fw-la potestatem_fw-la immediatè_fw-la à _fw-la christo_fw-la acceperit_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la assignabant_fw-la soli_fw-la magistratui_fw-la ab_fw-la ea_fw-la excludentes_fw-la ministros_fw-la nisi_fw-la in_o quantum_fw-la essent_fw-la vicarij_fw-la &_o instrumenta_fw-la seu_fw-la servi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la speciatim_fw-la electionem_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la seu_fw-la vocationem_fw-la item_n dopositionem_fw-la tribuebant_fw-la soli_fw-la magistraâ—…_n etc._n etc._n
state-end_n and_o political_a interest_n namely_o â—…at_a when_o some_o great_a person_n lord_n and_o other_o shall_v be_v force_v through_o the_o badness_n of_o the_o time_n as_o be_v expect_v and_o fear_v to_o seek_v for_o shelter_n in_o providence_n and_o hispaniâ—…la_n you_o may_v be_v there_o ready_a to_o remove_v with_o they_o and_o be_v take_v along_o into_o those_o country_n where_o you_o hope_v to_o set_v up_o new_a church_n and_o subdue_v those_o country_n and_o people_n which_o shall_v come_v over_o into_o your_o mould_n or_o if_o otherwise_o thing_n in_o england_n shall_v come_v to_o have_v a_o great_a turn_n as_o they_o have_v by_o this_o parliament_n then_o also_o by_o be_v in_o holland_n rather_o than_o new-england_n you_o be_v nigh_o hand_n and_o your_o estate_n more_o at_o command_n quick_o to_o return_v to_o england_n have_v this_o kingdom_n in_o your_o eye_n hope_v you_o may_v either_o subdue_v england_n into_o the_o way_n of_o your_o church-goverâ—…ent_a or_o else_o gain_v a_o great_a party_n to_o you_o 〈◊〉_d the_o kingdom_n which_o we_o see_v be_v unhappy_o fall_v out_o and_o 〈◊〉_d all_o the_o state-end_n and_o interest_n to_o come_v which_o you_o may_v loâ—…ke_v upon_o in_o your_o remove_v to_o holland_n there_o be_v worldly_a râ—…spects_n and_o interest_n for_o the_o present_a to_o make_v you_o go_v in_o the_o churâ—…-way_n as_o i_o have_v before_o observe_v and_o to_o all_o these_o whereas_o yoâ—…_n make_v the_o have_v no_o new-common-wealth_n no_o kingdom_n to_o eye_n to_o frame_v church-government_n unto_o as_o the_o ground_n of_o fall_v upon_o the_o right_a way_n let_v it_o be_v consider_v by_o you_o and_o the_o reader_n that_o the_o frame_n of_o a_o church-government_n according_a to_o the_o conjunction_n of_o a_o few_o godly_a person_n either_o in_o a_o plantation_n or_o as_o stranger_n in_o a_o commonwealth_n peace_n and_o not_o consider_v of_o a_o church-government_n for_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n that_o when_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n do_v receive_v the_o faith_n and_o the_o magistrate_n be_v christian_n and_o orthodox_n that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o church-government_n as_o for_o a_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n be_v that_o very_a thing_n that_o deceive_v you_o there_o be_v alia_fw-la ratio_fw-la vrbis_fw-la ac_fw-la orbis_fw-la and_o so_o a_o great_a difference_n of_o govern_v a_o family_n two_o or_o three_o or_o of_o a_o town_n and_o of_o govern_v a_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n but_o as_o for_o that_o parenthesis_n you_o make_v before_o you_o end_v this_o section_n that_o your_o government_n will_v bâ—…_n coexistent_a with_o the_o peace_n of_o any_o form_n of_o civil_a governmeâ—…_n on_o earth_n out_o of_o the_o great_a care_n you_o have_v lest_o your_o church-gâ—…nment_a shall_v suffer_v in_o the_o thought_n of_o many_o that_o it_o be_v not_o consistent_a with_o the_o peace_n of_o civill-government_n it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o truth_n that_o your_o government_n and_o churchway_n can_v stand_v with_o the_o peace_n of_o any_o form_n of_o civil_a government_n no_o not_o with_o democraticall_a government_n much_o less_o aristocratical_a or_o monarchical_a but_o shall_v it_o be_v but_o tolerate_v much_o more_o establish_v as_o the_o government_n in_o a_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n we_o shall_v quick_o find_v the_o contrary_a with_o a_o witness_n in_o this_o interval_n of_o church-government_n we_o feel_v without_o a_o formal_a toleration_n of_o it_o woeful_a effect_n opposite_a to_o the_o peace_n and_o good_a of_o civil_a government_n and_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v from_o you_o how_o you_o will_v prove_v it_o and_o we_o shall_v be_v assure_v of_o it_o for_o we_o dare_v not_o take_v your_o bare_a word_n see_v that_o never_o yet_o any_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n entertain_v your_o churchway_n and_o government_n there_o be_v yet_o no_o experiment_n of_o it_o which_o of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v be_v in_o kingdom_n and_o commonwealth_n this_o fourscore_o year_n and_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o in_o new-england_n which_o yet_o be_v far_o from_o be_v a_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n when_o they_o begin_v to_o multiply_v and_o increase_v this_o government_n have_v like_a to_o have_v ruin_v they_o both_o in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n and_o have_v they_o not_o enterpose_v and_o since_o do_v daily_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o many_o suitable_a principle_n to_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n they_o have_v be_v ruin_v before_o this_o and_o what_o yet_o will_v be_v the_o issue_n unless_o they_o fall_v off_o more_o and_o more_o from_o their_o independency_n a_o little_a time_n will_v show_v and_o there_o be_v letter_n from_o thence_o complain_v of_o the_o confusion_n of_o necessity_n depend_v on_o that_o government_n we_o be_v not_o engage_v by_o education_n or_o otherwise_o to_o any_o other_o of_o apolog._n the_o reform_a church_n and_o although_o we_o consult_v with_o reverence_n what_o they_o hold_v forth_o both_o in_o their_o write_n and_o practisâ—…_n yet_o we_o can_v not_o but_o suppose_v that_o they_o may_v not_o see_v into_o all_o thing_n about_o worship_n and_o government_n their_o intention_n be_v most_o spend_v as_o also_o of_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o england_n upon_o the_o reformation_n in_o doctrine_n in_o which_o they_o have_v a_o most_o happy_a hand_n and_o 〈◊〉_d have_v with_o many_o other_o observe_v that_o although_o the_o exercise_n of_o that_o government_n have_v be_v accompany_v with_o more_o peace_n yet_o the_o practical_a part_n the_o power_n of_o godliness_n and_o the_o profession_n thereof_o with_o difference_n from_o carnal_a and_o formal_a christian_n have_v not_o beeâ—…_n advance_v and_o hold_v forth_o among_o they_o as_o in_o this_o our_o island_n as_o themselves_o have_v general_o acknowledge_v we_o have_v the_o advantage_n of_o all_o that_o light_n which_o the_o conflict_n of_o our_o own_o divine_n the_o good_a old_a nonconformist_n have_v strike_v forth_o in_o their_o time_n and_o the_o draught_n of_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v draw_v which_o we_o find_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n the_o very_a same_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o â—…hat_o they_o have_v write_v come_v much_o more_o commend_v to_o we_o not_o only_o because_o they_o be_v our_o own_o but_o because_o seal_v with_o their_o manifold_a and_o bitter_a suffering_n we_o have_v likewise_o the_o fatâ—…ll_a miscarriage_n and_o shipwreck_n of_o the_o separation_n who_o you_o call_v brownist_n as_o landmark_n to_o forewarn_v we_o of_o thâ—…se_a rock_n and_o shelf_n they_o run_v upon_o which_o also_o do_v put_v we_o upon_o a_o inquiry_n into_o the_o principle_n that_o may_v be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o division_n last_o of_o all_o we_o have_v the_o recent_a and_o late_a example_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n and_o those_o improve_v to_o a_o better_a edition_n and_o great_a refinement_n by_o all_o the_o forementioned_a help_v of_o those_o multitude_n of_o godly_a man_n of_o our_o own_o nation_n almost_o to_o the_o number_n of_o another_o nation_n and_o among_o they_o some_o as_o holy_a and_o judicioâ—…_n divine_v as_o this_o kingdom_n have_v breed_v who_o sincerity_n in_o theâ—…_n way_n have_v be_v testify_v before_o all_o the_o world_n and_o will_v be_v to_o all_o generation_n to_o come_v by_o the_o great_a undertake_n but_o that_o of_o our_o father_n abraham_n out_o of_o his_o own_o country_n and_o his_o sâ—…ed_n after_o he_o a_o transplant_n themselves_o many_o thousand_o mile_n distance_n and_o and_o that_o by_o sea_n into_o a_o wilderness_n mere_o to_o worship_n god_n more_o pure_o whither_o to_o allure_v they_o there_o can_v be_v no_o other_o invitement_n and_o yet_o we_o still_o stand_v as_o unengage_v spectator_n free_a to_o examine_v and_o consider_v what_o truth_n be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o and_o among_o all_o these_o all_o which_o we_o look_v upon_o as_o reform_a church_n and_o this_o naked_o according_a to_o the_o word_n we_o resolve_v not_o to_o take_v up_o our_o religion_n by_o or_o from_o any_o party_n and_o yet_o to_o approve_v and_o hold_v fast_o whatsoever_o be_v good_a in_o any_o though_o never_o so_o much_o differ_v from_o we_o yea_o orposite_a unto_o we_o it_o may_v be_v if_o you_o have_v be_v engage_v by_o education_n or_o otherwise_o to_o any_o other_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o you_o have_v see_v the_o order_n and_o peace_n in_o some_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o have_v you_o converse_v with_o they_o before_o you_o drink_v in_o these_o opinion_n you_o have_v never_o be_v transport_v with_o they_o in_o opposition_n to_o so_o many_o most_o worthy_a church_n but_o to_o what_o end_n be_v this_o bring_v in_o with_o all_o those_o particular_n new_o mention_v in_o the_o forego_n page_n we_o have_v we_o have_v with_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o close_a of_o the_o last_o section_n we_o have_v nothing_o else_o to_o do_v but_o simple_o and_o single_o to_o consider_v how_o to_o
know_v to_o we_o by_o their_o confession_n and_o i_o never_o know_v till_o this_o apology_n come_v forth_o that_o ever_o the_o church_n of_o new-england_n be_v style_v the_o reform_a church_n as_o the_o brownist_n and_o separatist_n never_o yet_o be_v unto_o who_o yet_o the_o parenthesis_n relate_v as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o the_o other_o church_n and_o for_o our_o own_o congregation_n we_o mean_v of_o england_n in_o apolog._n which_o through_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n we_o be_v convert_v and_o exercise_v our_o ministery_n long_o to_o the_o conversion_n of_o many_o other_o we_o have_v this_o sincere_a profession_n to_o make_v before_o god_n and_o all_o the_o world_n that_o all_o that_o conscience_n of_o the_o defilement_n we_o conceive_v to_o cleave_v to_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n in_o they_o or_o of_o the_o unwarrant_v power_n in_o church_n governor_n exercise_v therein_o do_v never_o work_v in_o any_o of_o we_o any_o other_o thought_n much_o less_o opinion_n but_o that_o multitude_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o parochial_a congregation_n thereof_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o ministry_n thereof_o a_o true_a ministry_n much_o less_o do_v it_o ever_o enter_v into_o our_o heart_n to_o judge_v they_o antichristian_a we_o see_v and_o can_v but_o see_v that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o church_n abroad_o in_o scotland_n holland_n etc._n etc._n though_o more_o reform_v yet_o for_o their_o mixture_n must_v be_v in_o like_a manner_n judge_v no_o church_n also_o which_o to_o imagine_v or_o conceive_v be_v and_o have_v ever_o be_v a_o horror_n to_o our_o thought_n yea_o we_o always_o have_v profess_v and_o that_o in_o these_o time_n when_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o most_o either_o actual_o over_o spread_v with_o defilement_n or_o in_o the_o great_a danger_n thereof_o and_o when_o ourselves_o have_v least_o yea_o no_o hope_n of_o ever_o so_o much_o as_o visit_v our_o own_o land_n again_o in_o peace_n and_o safety_n to_o our_o person_n that_o we_o both_o dâ—…d_v and_o will_v hold_v a_o communion_n with_o they_o as_o the_o church_n of_o christ._n and_o beside_o this_o profession_n as_o a_o real_a testimony_n thereof_o some_o of_o we_o after_o we_o actual_o be_v in_o this_o way_n of_o communion_n baptize_v our_o child_n in_o parishional_a congregation_n and_o as_o we_o have_v occasion_n do_v offer_v to_o receive_v into_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n with_o we_o some_o who_o we_o know_v godly_a that_o come_v to_o visit_v we_o when_o we_o be_v in_o our_o exile_n upon_o that_o relation_n fellowship_n and_o commembership_n they_o hold_v in_o their_o parish_n church_n in_o england_n they_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v member_n thereof_o and_o belong_v thereunto_o what_o we_o have_v since_o our_o return_n public_o and_o avowed_o madâ—…_n declaration_n of_o to_o this_o purpose_n many_o hundred_o can_v witness_v and_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n in_o their_o print_a book_n candid_o do_v testify_v for_o we_o in_o this_o section_n you_o come_v to_o declare_v your_o judgement_n concern_v the_o congregation_n of_o england_n and_o the_o ministry_n of_o they_o wherein_o you_o apologise_v for_o yourselves_o in_o regard_n of_o misapprehension_n you_o may_v lie_v under_o in_o respect_n of_o your_o judgement_n concern_v they_o for_o what_o good_a you_o speak_v of_o they_o now_o and_o for_o own_v they_o as_o your_o own_o in_o which_o you_o be_v convert_v and_o in_o which_o you_o convert_v many_o other_o i_o thank_v you_o but_o for_o the_o sincere_a profession_n you_o make_v before_o god_n and_o all_o the_o world_n that_o all_o that_o conscience_n of_o the_o defilement_n you_o conceive_v to_o cleave_v to_o the_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n in_o they_o or_o of_o the_o unwarrant_v power_n in_o church_n governor_n exercise_v therein_o do_v never_o work_v in_o any_o of_o you_o any_o other_o think_v much_o less_o opinion_n but_o that_o multitude_n of_o the_o 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that_o you_o express_v so_o much_o and_o act_v in_o the_o virtue_n of_o it_o nay_o even_o to_o judge_v they_o antichristian_a there_o be_v some_o passage_n in_o one_o letter_n more_o especial_o among_o other_o write_v by_o mr_n bridge_n to_o his_o love_a friend_n in_o norwich_n mr_n henry_n king_n mr_n toft_n mr_n smith_n mr_n rayner_n mr._n map_n the_o substance_n of_o which_o letter_n to_o letter_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v content_a with_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hear_v but_o to_o look_v out_o after_o the_o platform_n of_o government_n leave_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n by_o elder_n pastor_n teacher_n deacon_n and_o widow_n and_o to_o consider_v that_o every_o church_n have_v the_o power_n within_o itself_o and_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o one_o officer_n or_o to_o another_o congregation_n but_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o to_o that_o whereof_o the_o member_n be_v a_o part_n and_o then_o mr_n bridge_n fall_v upon_o episcopal_a government_n under_o which_o these_o 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infection_n and_o to_o keep_v the_o church_n of_o god_n pure_a as_o divine_v teach_v then_o thuogh_o the_o party_n offend_v shall_v pretend_v such_o sin_n or_o error_n be_v not_o against_o his_o know_a light_n neither_o contrary_a to_o the_o receive_a principle_n of_o christianity_n universal_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o excommunication_n ought_v to_o be_v exercise_v by_o they_o who_o have_v power_n in_o the_o church_n and_o for_o our_o direction_n in_o these_o or_o whatsoever_o else_o requisite_a to_o the_o manage_n of_o they_o we_o have_v these_o three_o principle_n more_o especial_o apolog._n in_o our_o eye_n to_o guide_v and_o steer_v our_o practice_n by_o 1._o first_o the_o supreme_a rule_n without_o we_o be_v the_o primitive_a pattern_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n our_o conscience_n be_v possess_v with_o that_o reverence_n and_o adoration_n of_o the_o fullness_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o there_o be_v 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as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v 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partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n the_o church_n offend_v may_n and_o aught_o upon_o the_o impenitency_n of_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n against_o they_o of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o until_o they_o do_v repent_v and_o further_o to_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o further_a authority_n or_o proceed_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a of_o one_o or_o many_o sister_n church_n towards_o another_o whole_a church_n or_o church_n offend_v either_o the_o scripture_n do_v holdforth_o or_o can_v rational_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a cognisance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o
be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v not_o then_o nor_o do_v yet_o see_v and_o likewise_o we_o do_v then_o suppose_v and_o do_v yet_o that_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o other_o church_n offend_v together_o with_o this_o other_o that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v final_o offend_v to_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o withdraw_n from_o they_o while_o impenitent_a ac_fw-la unworthy_a to_o hold_v forth_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n these_o principle_n be_v receive_v and_o general_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o mutual_a duty_n as_o strict_o enjoin_v they_o by_o christ_n as_o any_o other_o that_o these_o will_v be_v as_o effectual_a mean_n through_o the_o blessing_n of_o christ_n to_o awe_v and_o preserve_v church_n and_o their_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n as_o that_o other_o of_o claim_n to_o 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