amongst other considerations the course of the Gospel should not be stayed till ordination be fetched from farre countreys the Lord himselfe oftentimes supplieth the places of the Ministers and Elders and layeth on his hands such evidence of gifts and graces proper for the Ministry as not onely the Church doth willingly acknowledge but the enemies also will they nill they are in their consciences convinced to be divine and excellent And seeing it is evident that neither the Prophets under the law nor many worthy Ministers that God hath raised up since the time of the Gospel had ever before their entrance into the Ministry their gifts solemnly approved or been ordained Our Brethren must needs grant that this kinde of ordination is not simply or absolutely necessary to the being of a Minister To which also this may be added that our Saviour in giving notice whereby the true Pastor should be discerned from the false nameth only these viz. that he enter himselfe and lead the people in and out by that dore Secondly that the people of God agree with him and consent to his Ministrie Thirdly that the Porter the holy Ghost open the hearts of the hearers to him and his doctrine a which 3. notes doubtlesse our Saviour would not have rested in if there could have been no true Minister without the ordination which our Brethren speak of and urge that as a matter of absolute necessitie Their second reason viz. that we reccive our OrdinatioÌ„ from Antichristian Bishops ialso insufficient for first Our Bishops cannot trulie be called Antichristian So that to conclude this point wee say that the ordinary course of entring into the Ministrie is not kept but a great imperfection and want is to be acknowledged where this election and ordination is not used Yet is not the want such as taketh away the very life and being of a true ministerie Their second reason against our entrance is That our ordination is received from Antichristian Prelates and such as being persecutors of the godly cannot bee well accounted brethren or members of the Church much lesse can they give a calling to a Minister of the Church whereunto we answer First Secondly seeing our Bishops are such as can judge of the sufficiencie of gifts and are also Ministers It cannot be unlawfull for him that is to bee a Ministers to receive approbation and authoritie from them That the Bishops of England cannot truly be called Antichristian Prelates for proofe whereof wee referre our selves unto that answer we have given unto their fourth Objection against the whole bodie of our Church Secondly seeing it cannot bee denied that the Bishops are able to judge of such gifts as are required for the sufficiencie of Ministers yea that many of them have beene such Ministers themselves as to whose labours the Lord hath set to his Seale and who have also suffered persecution for the truth we are perswaded that though it were not necessary yet it cannot be unlawful for him that entreth into the ministery to be approved and authorized even by them And if our ordination be in this behalfe faultie how will out Brethren justifie the calling of their own Ministers Thirdly the gifts power to ordaine which God hath commited to his Church we may lawfully seeke the benefit of it even at worse mensch nâ—s then our Bishops are if we cannot otherwise come by it that have received ordination ever from the people who neither by commandement not example can be found to have any such authoritie nor are in any degree to capable of it as the Bishops Thirdly the ordination we seeke for from the Bishops is not theirs but committed to the Church by Christ Himselfe And seeing wee have already proved that there was in England a true Church even then when this authoritie was first given by Parliament to the Bishops and that the true Church which without a ministerie cannot possibly bee continued is never without power to ordaine Ministers Wee may lawfully reverence and seeke for the benefit of this power and priâ—â—ledge which God hath given to his Church though it were conveied unto us by men lesse capable of this authoritie then our Bishops are And he that thinketh Christs ordination the better for the man that bestoweth it iucurreth as we thinke the danger of the curse Fourthly We may lawfullie seeke the Bishops approbation because from his hands only we can receive the civill Magistrates allowance to exercise our Ministrie denounced against him that putteth his trust in man and maketh flesh his arme and nith draâ—eth his heart from the Lord. Ier. 17.5 Fifthly If our Bishops were not at all capable of this power to give Ecclesiasticall Ordination yet seeing the Christian Magistrates approbation is not to be refused by him that exerciseth a ministerie in the Church and that cannot be had in our Church but by the hands of the Bishops we thinke that he who is fitted of God to the ministerie and hath also testimonie of his fitnesse from such godly learned Brethren as have made tryall of his gifts and can judge of them may lawfully accept and seeke for this kinde of approbation if all other conditions bee equall Sixthly Admit the Bishops from whom we receive our ordination 6. Though the Ordination received from the Bishops were as corrupt as baptismal received from popish Priests Yee may he be a lawfull Minister that hath no other Ordination then from the Bishops Their third Objection agaiust our Ministerie is that our administration and exercise of that office whereunto we are thus called is also Antichristian were indeed Antichristian or Heretickes as we judge them not to be yet why should wee bee bound to seeke for any other ordination more than another baptisme then that which we have received from Popish Priests in the time of ignorance And seeing that Barrow and Groenwood in the 54. page of their refutation doe not onely account many to be true Christians that never had other outward Baptisme then that which they had from Popish Priests but plainely affirme that such neither need nor ought to be baptized againe we wonder why they dare not account us true Ministers because of this ordination received from the Bishops Shall ordination bee thought more necessary to the being of a Minister than baptisme is to the being of a Christian or shall an error in ordination have more force to prove one no Minister than an error in Baptisme hath to prove one no Christian or are our Bishops worse than the Popish Priests or the corruption in the forme of our ordination greater than those that are used in popish Baptisme The third thing they object against our Ministerie Is that the admistration and exercise of our function is not agreeable to the Word but Antichristian because say they as at our entrance we sweare Cannonicall Obedience to the Bishops Fifthly Which is insufficient to warrant their separatioÌ„ for it is not utterly
Lawes executed and not to make new Neither doe they judge ever a whit more dutifully of the Churches of God for of them they use to speake as if their had beene no true Church in the world till they sprung up Nor were at this time any right constituted Church Assembly in the world but their owne for in the Epistie to the Reader which they prefixed before their discovery and in the first page thereof they have these words The whole land I say not the whole World hath lyen so long and is so deepe set in the defâ—ction c. And in the second page Although the truth hath long layn hid and buried and be now impugned of all men But why should wee wonder that they iudge so erroniously of men seeing the sacred Worship of God they hold that it may receive pollution from men that deale in it for in the 30. page of their discovery They teach that the open sinne of the Minister defileth the Sacrament and Prayer administâ—ed by them Yea in the 34. page they goe somewhat further and say That the knowne and suffered sinne of any one member is coniagious to all such as communicate with him in that estate and make th them all as guiltie in Gods sight as he himselfe is Touching the Articles of our faith which by all the godly in all ages have beene called the Apostles creed Thus they speake in the 76. page of their discoverie Their forged patchry commonly called the Apostls Creede The Article of Christs descending into Hell what sence soever it be taken in they call in the 48. page of their refutation That Blasphemous Article of our Faith Besides these grosse absurdities they hold against other points of wholsome doctrine let the Reader guesse at the judgment they have in the manner of Church government wherein they would appeare to be better seene then all the godly learned in the world besides by these few things which we will offer to his consideration First whereas they have in their writings disclaimed the discipline which wee desire and other reformed Churches have received they have never yet clearely set downe what discipline it is which themselves stand so much for In the 27. page of their discoverie when they have scoffed at the discipline we seeke they offer words to this effect That without the power and practise of the diligent watch of every member but chiefly of the Rulers and Elders the Word of God is made as Idoll the Sacrament sacriledge unto us and all things we doe odious and abominable to the Lord Whereby it appeareth they are of opinion that there can be no true Religion there where either there is no Eldership established or where the Elders faile in the execution of their office or where any one private member of the Church shall faile in doing the Office of a Watchman and censurer to the rest much like to this is that which they write in the 37. page of their refutation Hath the greater Minister in the Church any more power to retaine and loose the sinne of the least member then the same member hath to binde or loose his sinne In the 119. page of their discoverie speaking of the Church government which hath beene sought for amongst us and received by other reformed Churches they have these words The thing it selfe they corrupt in that they adde new devises of their owne as their Pastorall suspensi 〈◊〉 from their Sacraments their set continued Syâ—eds their select classes of Ministers their settled supreame Councell whereby they have well expressed what they meane in the 29. and 249. pages of their refutation when they affirme that the Church hath no power to make any Loves of indifferent things And page 193. of their discovery That the people without any Minister may give ordination and full calling into the ministery Secondly As their judgment is erronious so is the practise of their discipline in their Assemblies most disorderly For first none can gather Churches from Infidelitie nor may goe about it but only such as are appointed to it by our Saviour Christ and he hath appointed none for that worke but Ministers which also themselves in the fourth page of the preface prefixed to the refutation doe confesse we would gladly know by what ministrie their Assemblies were first gathered by what presbyterie were the Ministers that first gathered their Assemblies examined and ordained with imposition of hands Secondly when the first were gathered what foundation had they to ground their faith and doctrine upon especially in these point of controversie when they neither had any other translation of the Scripture then that which they received from us whom they judged no better than Heretickes and Infidels nor any one among them who by the knowledge in the tongues was able to examine our translation by the originall Scriptures Thirdly How great a disorder it is that in their Assemblies private persons are allowed to interpret the Scriptures publikely and that they hold faith may even ordinarily be wrought by privatemen Where God hath separated and sanctified a speciall sort of men to any office and the administration thereunto belonging there he hath restrained others that are not of that sort from ordinarie doing of the actions properly belonging unto that office as may appeare by many Testimonies and examples Now it is evidant that in the Old and in the New Testament the Lord did seperate the Priests and Levites Apostles Prophets Evangelifts Pastors and Teachers to the publicke Administration of the Word and Prayer of the Sacrifices and Sacraments of the Church how then shall any other presumo to meddle there with The Priests and Levites who had ever by inheritance some right to all the services of the Tabernacle might not lawfully exercise the meanest service till they were specially called and consecrated thereunto a Exod. 28. 29. Levit. 8.34 how much lesse then might any other deale in the publike service of God without a publike calling thereunto Wee are not ignorant that they are wont to alleadge many testimonies of Scripture to warrant this disorder by but alas they doe it very ignorantlie For many of them whose examples they cite were by speciall calling separated to the Office of preaching The seventie Disciples are said to have beene sent by CHRIST b Luke 10. Paul and Barnabas when they preached at Antioch of Pisidia c Acts 13. were not onely lawfull Ministers but for ought that can appeare by this place to the contrary they were so reputed also by the Ruler of the Synagogue to whom their publike and famous preaching in so many Assemblies before with the approbation of the Jewes could not bee unknowne The faithfull men that the Apostles writes of to Timothy d 2 Tim. 2.2 who should teach others also were such only as shold be both instructed by Timothy and receive authoritie from him to do it Of some other mentioned in their quotations it is very
1 Cor. 2.2 Eph. s 2.19 22. and therefore when the Apostle saith that the Church is built upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles his meaning is not to call every thing contained in their writings the foundation of the Church But that this foundation wee have spoken of is there to be found and hath witnesses from thence and that all the writings and doctrines of the Apostles and Prophets doe bend unto stay and rest upon this one truth as the walls in the building upon the chiefe corner stone Lastly Arg. 4. All reformed Churches give the Testimony to us All the knowne Churches in the world acknowledge our Church for their Sister and give unto us the right hand of fellow-ship This Henry Barrow and Iohn Greene-wood denie in their 14. page of their refutation but they name not any one Church that maketh question of us whether wee were the true Church or no never yet was there any reformed Church made that question They are well acquainted with our Church by the report of them that have travelled from bence and sundry other wayes with our doctrine and Lyturgie our wants and corruptions every one Neither doe they only forbeare to shew their dislike to us or are content to preserve society with us which happily through humane infirmitie they might doe upon sinister respects though they approved not of us in judgment but they doe also hold and teach that what people soever hath so much as we is the true Church though the wants and corruptions are as great as ours are Now when we alledge for our selves the testimonies of the Churches Which strongly argueth that we are the true Church we doe not thereby as these men fondly conclude in the 14. page of their refutation make the word of men the foundation of our Church Nor doe we use these as our only and chiefe defence whereby we seeke to approve our selves either unto the Lord or to the Consciences of his people but such an argument wee take this to bee as in his due place hath much force in it and as God Himselfe hath sanctified for a principall help in deciding of controversies in this kinde the Apostles use to alleadge it as a matter of comfort to them whom they write unto that the Churches of Christ salute them (a) Rom. 16.16 1 Pet. 5 13. that they were famous and had the good report of the Churches (b) Rom. 16.19 2 Cor. 8 18 19 23.24 Galah 1.2 Saint Paul though hee received not his calling either from men or by men c nor was any whit inferior to the chiefe Apostles (d) 2 Cor. 12.11 yet doth he alleadge for the credit of his ministery that the chiefest Apostles approved him and gave to him the right hand of fellowship (e) Gal. 2.9 Yea (f) Gal. 2.2 he sought also their approbation and feared that without it he should have runne in vaine And which is yet more he seeketh to win commendation and credit even to those which he by his Apostolicall authoritie might have established by the example and judgment of other churches If those Churches which were planted by the Apostles themseltes might take comfort in the good opinion that other Churches had of them May not we much more If the Ministery of Paul and orders he prescribed to the Church received further credit by the approbation of the Churches Then their approbations give some credit to the ministerie and orders of the Church now The doctrine and word of God though to speake properly it received authoritie onely from it selfe and the Spirit of God yet hath it ever beene the rather received by men for the testimony the Church hath given unto it So our Saviour Christ saith That Wisdome is justified of her Children Matth. 11.19 Iohn 5.34 and although he affirmeth that he received not the record of men Yet in respect of the salvation and good it men he judgeth it necessary John 1.7 8 5 33 34. that Iohn Baptist should give Testimony unto him Now if this one thing furthered the damnation of the unbelieving Iewes that they would not heare nor receive Christ though testimony were given of him by one whom they knew to be sent of God shall not this further the condemnation of these men that they refuse to heare and receive us though we be commended unto them by the testimony of so many Churches of God Some cases there bee wherein wee are commanded to seeke for the judgment of the Churches and to account it the judgment of God else why did the Church at Antioch in a question that could not be debated at home seeke to the Church at Jerusalem for helpe especially seeing they had two such excellent men with them as Paul and Barnabas whose judgments they might safely have trusted unto (d) Acts 15.2 saith our Saviour that whatsoever they binde on earth shall be bound also in heaven (e) Matth. 18 18. and saith he not also to Churches of other Nations Shall he be accounted as an heathen or a Publican that will not regard the judgment and censure of the particular Congregation whereof hee is a member (f) Matth 18.17 and shall they not be much more accounted so that despise the judgment of all the Churches Must the spirits of the Prophets be subject to the Prophets amongst whom we live (g) 1 Cor. 14.32 and must not both people and Prophets be subject to all the Prophets and Churches in the world The abilitie to trie and discerne the spirits and doctrines of such teachers as arise in the Church is such a gift as the true Church never wanted (h) 1 Ioh. 4.1 Revel 2.2 neither could it bee the pillar and ground of truth (i) 1 Tim 3.15 if it should be ignorant of a truth so necessary to the salvation of men as this is viz. What people is accounted to be the true Church of God if God hath given his Church power to judge and pronounce a particular man that he is in the state of salvation and that so infallibly that he hath promised to ratifie in heaven the judgment which the Church shall in this case give upon earth (k) Matth. 18 18. may it not bee said that hee hath much more made the Church able to discerne and pronounce of a Congregation or people that is a true visible Church which is a matter of no such difficultie as the other So that to conclude though those men make so light of the judgment and testimony of other Churches 1 Cor. 14 36. as if the Word of God had come out from them onely or as if themselves were able to judge of us better than all the godly learned besides Yet doe wee take much comfort and assurance from hence that we are the true Church of God Now it remaines that we answer such reasons as are objected against our Church bythem Objections answered THe first thing that they
Magistrates so to doe whereas indeed we ought the rather to doe good things that are agreeable unto the Word when wee know them to be also commanded by the Christian Magistrate Though we are perswaded by the former reason Yet we doe grant that in some cases conceived prayers are more fit then other to think that stinted formes are so farre from being simply unlawfull as in that in the ordinary and generall occasions of the whole Church they are many times more fit then those that are called conceived prayers Yet it is well knowne that our Law alloweth and our preachers also doe use prayers conceived which we in some cases doe judge more fit to stirre up and expresse the groanes and sighes of the spirit then those prayers doe wherein we tie our selves to prescript words But why doe wee seeke to justifie our prescript Lyturgie before these men who speake as scornefully and profanely of our conceived prayers as they can possibly doe of those which wee read For when Henry Barrow had derided and flouted those that use onely read prayers hee breaketh out into these speeches in the 37. page of his discovery that other smooth hypocrites yet as grosse Idolaters use this viz. the Lords prayer as a clause or supply to their long and prolix prayers conceived before whereby it should seeme that their hatred to us rather then to our corruptions is so great as that whatsoever wee doe will displease them Concerning Homilies this answer wee give The reasons they bring against us for Homilies is of no force That though wee thinke it is not simply unlawfull to reade in our Assemblies such Homilies as are for the matter sound and good yet in regard of the dangerous inconveniences that may come by using them by so many Ministers and Congregations in the Land doe utterly dislike all publike use of them as that we wonder that these men are not ashamed to use this as a reason of their separation from the whole Church But what if all this were granted that the use of our stinted prayers If to have a Drescript form of Lyturgie were Idolatrous yet might we be the true Church for all that Catechismes and Homilies were Idolatrous which yet wee have proved to be otherwise will it from thence follow that we are not that true Church Is this a greater corruption in the worship of God then the retaining of hie places against which there is so expresse a commandement a Deut. 12.2 1 King 11.8 9 1 King 15.14 2 King 15.4 2 King 18.4 2 King 13.6 or then the burning Incense to the Brazen Serpent b and yet it is evident that the one of these was retained in the dayes of Asa and Azariah Kings of Iudah and the other even till Hezekiahs Reigne in which time notwithstanding it is manifest there was a true Church in Judah The testimony of Scripture which they quote in the page 68. of the collection of Letters and Conferences and in the 144. page of their resutations against our prescript Lyturgie are such as either tend generally to the condemning of Idolatrie f Deut. 5.8 9. 1 Chro. 28.10 Revel 22 19. Prov. 30.5 6. Deut. 4.32 Revel 22.18 19 Matth. 15.9 Col. 2.20 23. or such as forbid us to add any thing to the Word of God To the first sort we answer that they have not yet proved our Lyturgie Idolatrie Secondly if they had yet cannot they by these testimonies conclude that therefore they that use it are not the true Church To the other sort of Testimonies this we say that we adde not our Lyturgie unto the Word of God nor make it of equall authoritie with it neither doe we use it to the same ends and purposes that we doe the Scripture Secondly Wee doe wonder with what judgment or Conscience they can blame us for adding to the word by our Lyturgie who will at no hand allow us to use as prayers any of the formes that are set down in the Scripture The reasons also against all formes of Lyturgie The reasons against all formes of Lyturgie are weake and set downe in the 43. page of the collection of slanderous Articles are fond and weake though they seeme to collect them from the Scriptures for wee have above proved that God may be worshipped spiritually and fervently even in that prayer wherein a set and prescript forme of words are used Secondly That this is no good reason the Apostles are not read to have used any set forme of prayer themselves or to have prescribed any to the Churches Ergo they did not use or prescribe any or Ergo the Church might not Thirdly Iohn 4.23 Rom. 8.26 1 Iohn 2.17 1 Cor. 3.11 12 We see not why they may not as strongly reason the spirit helpeth our infirmities and wee have received that anointing and therefore we need not nor may not use any outward helps for our consolation and instruction or for the subduing of our corruptions as this the spirit helps our infirmities c. and we have received that anointing Ergo we need not nor may not use any prescript formes of words as helps in our prayers OBJECT III. The third thing they object against the whole bodie of the Church Object The third Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we want Christs Discipline is this That we want that discipline and order which Christ in his Testament hath appointed for the government of the Church for neither have we say they the power to binde or to loose nor those officers by whom the censures of Christ should be exercised Yea saith Henry Barrow in the 160. page of his discoverie You have not any one thing order or administration according to his Testament And in the 188. page such places of Scripture as make expresse mention of Christs discipline as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 15. and 12. 2 Cor. 2 Ephes 4. 2 Thes 3. and 1 Tim. 5.1 are not saith he suffered so much as to be read in the Church much lesse to be sincerely expounded from these premises see what a conclusion he in the 27. page of his discovery inferreth without the power saith hee and practise of the diligent watch of every Member but especially of the Elders the Word of God is made an Idoll the Sacraments sacriledge unto us and all things we do odious and abominable unto the Lord. To this third Objection this answer we give Answ The first part of Christs Discipline which is most subst intiall we have 1. For the works and duties which hee would have performed in the governmēt of his Church are all one in our assemblies Discipline not exercised rightly First whereas the discipline of Christ consisteth in two things viz. what works and duties Christ would have performed for the ordering and government of his Church and by what persons and Officers hee would have these duties exercised We affirme that for as much as all these
workes viz. preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments the censures of admonition suspension excommunication and provision for the necessitie of the poore are in many of our Assemblies performed and by Law ought to be in all that there ore we cannot justlie be said to be without the discipline of Christ but rather that we having the discipline of Christ which is most substantiall doe want the other and so exercile it not rightlie that is to say not by those Officers which Christ â—ath appointed Secondly It is well knowne that the chiefe works and discipline Secondly The chiefe workes of Christs Discipline are exercised with us even by those Officers that he appointed namely the preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments and consequentlie the principiall part of that power to binde and loose which Christ gave to his Church is not only exercised in manie oâ— our Assemblies but exercised also by those very Officers which Christ hath appointed for us the Lawes of our land doe authorize the Minister to staie from the Lords Table all such as are uncatechised and out of charitie or any otherwise publike offenders as appeareth in the Rubrick before the Communion and in that which is after confirmation And from whence else commeth the trouble of many of our Ministers but from the exercising of this authoritie even from the suspending of the ungodly from the Sacrament and stinging their consciences by the preaching of the word Thirdly Thirdly though the â—â—â—pâ—ine were not exercised at all with us it could not therefore follow that we have it not Fourthly Though even through ignorance or fearefulnesse wee were kept froÌ„ it yet might wee have right and authoritie to use it Though none of our Assemblies did use this power it followeth not from therce that we have it not No more than it doth follow that the rich churle hath no monie because he useth none and that a man therefore hath no authoritie because hee doth not exercise any Fourthly Admit we were not able through want of knowledge and courage to use this power Yet followeth it not that therefore wee want the right and authoritie to use it For if those Churches which the Prophet reproveth a Ezek. 22.26 for putting no difference between the holy and prophane or that which the Apostle blameth for not putting the incestuous person from among them had they wanted authoritie to use this power how could they justlie have beene reproved for neglecting the exercising thereof Lastly Though it were granted that we wanted both the exercise of the Churches censures and some of those Officers which our Saviour hath appointed to exercise them by Yet might wee bee a true visible Church notwithstanding there was a true Church in Iudah all the daies of Asa b 1 Cor 5.1 2. and Iehosaphat a 2 Chro. 15.9.10 17 5 9 yet was not the discipline reformed there till the latter daies of Iehosaphats Reigne b 2 Chro. 19 8 11. Ezek 22.26 That also was a true Church even then when the Apostles found this fault with them d 1 Cor. 5.1 2. the Congregation at Samariah is called a Church before the discipline was established there And even in Jerusalem there was a famous visible Church of Christ long before sundry parts of the discipline for want whereof they condemne us were established there yea it is evident that by the Apostles themselves diverse Churches were gathered some good space of time g Acts 13.43 14 11 21 23. Tit 5.5 before the discipline was setled or exercised e Acts 8.12.19 31. Acts 2.41 42. by all which is manifest that how necessary soever those parts of the discipline which we want be to the beautie and well being or preservation of the Church Yet are they not necessary to the being therof but that a true Church may be without them And as we may well call him a man that wanteth not only sundry parts of his body as an Arme or a Legge or Eye but is also distempered much even in the Braine and Liver and heart and the rest of the viâ—all parts so may wee rightly call that a Church which not only wanteth sundry of those Officers which Christ hath ordained but hath also even in the ministerie of the word and the profession of the true faith which are as it were the braine and heart of a true Church much maimednesse and distemper The places of Scripture which they alleadge to disprove this which wee have said are unskilfully applyed In the collection of Letters and conferences page 69. Ephes 4.11 12. Rom. 12.8 for the one of them mentio eth no other ordinary officers out Pastors and Teachers which our Church professeth the other though it proveth there should bee other Officers besides them there named yet doth it not affirme that without them there can be no true Church OBJECT IIII. The fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies is this Object The fourth Objection against the whole body of our Assemblies is that we stand under the Popish Church government wâ—â— reason also is insufficient to warrant their separation That we stand under us they say a false and Antichristian government for that wee are directed by and subject to Canons Courts and authoritie of the Bishops which they do not content themselves in the 68.69 page of their collection of Letters and conferences to call Popish and Antichristian and Aegyptian and Babylonish Tokes but in regard thereof they say our Assemblies Cast our Sathan by the power of Sathan To this fourth objection we make this answer First Seeing it hath beene already shewed that the discipline which our Church exerciseth is in substance the same with that which Christ instituted they cannot with any colour of truth say that all our Church government is Popish and Antichristian but only that it is popishly and corruptly administred Answ 1. The substance of our discipline is Christ and not Antichrists 2 Thes 10.11 2 Tim. 4.1.3 1 Iohn 2.22 1 Iohn 4 3. Iohn 7. Revel 13.5 16. Secondly Though it were confessed that in the callings and authoritie of the Bishops there bee diverse things Antichristian Yet see we not how our Bishops could truly be called Antichrists or Antichristians because first the word when it describeth Antichrist and teacheth us how to know him useth to marke him out by his false doctrine Neither can we find in holy Scripture any such accounted an Antichrist or Antichristian who holding the truth of doctrine and professing all the fundamentall Articles of the faith doth swerve either in judgment or practise from that rule which Christ hath given for the discipline of his Church Now it is evident that our Bishops both doe and by the Lawes of our Land ought to hold and teach all doctrines and truths that are fundamentall Yea some of them have learnedly and soundly maintained the truth against Heretickes
that have gaiâ—â—aid it some have not only by their doctrine and ministerie converted many to the truth but have suffered persecution also for the Gospell and though Henry Barrow in the eleventh page of his discoverie call them Pseudo-Martyrs and run-away professors yet can hee not prove that they all since their accepting their rooms renounced and are fallen from that truth which they then suffered for Secondly Their Hierarchie and other their corruptions that are charged upon the calling of our Bishops were rather to bee esteemed as the staires and way to Antichristianitie then Antichristianitie it selfe which is evident by this that they were in the Church before the Pope who is the Antichrist and the chiefe head-linke of all Antichristianitie was revealed Thirdly The Antichristian Bishops hold their preheminence as from GODS Law which is unchangeable Whereas our Bishops since her Majesties Reigne untill this day for the most part held their superioritie by no other right then by the positive Law which is variable Yea it appeareth both by the institution of the Courts of deligates and by the continuance thereof to this day that they doe and ought by Law to hold their jurisdiction not as from God but as from he Prince Thirdly Thirdly if they were yet might we be the true Church Admit that both our Bishops and the government by them exercised were Antichristian yet might wee that stand in that sort as we doe be subject unto them that are the true Church of Christ it is evident that to speake properly the Yoke of Antichrist is only inward and spirituall where the faith and Conscience are enjoyned upon paine of damnation to receive other Lawes and worship then that which God in his word prescribeth and even to this Yoke the true Church hath beene often subject or else the Church of the Jewes even in the dayes of Christ was no true Church that held themselves bound in conscience to observe sundry traditions of the Elders In a more large sense those Prelates are called Antichristian that joyne civill jurisdiction with Ecclesiasticall or usurpe more than they ought in externall government or tyrannously abuse the power committed to their hands and this Antichristian Yoke also the true Church hath borne many a time in the dayes of the Macchabees there was a true Church among the Jewes yet did the Priests exercise civill jurisdiction There was a true Church Ierâ— 5.31 20.1 both in Jeremies and Ezekiels dayes which yet did beare this Antichristian Yoke the authoritie which our Bishops are said to usurpe over the Ministers Ezek. 34.4 Which had not-needed if the Church could have suppressed or withstood them and Church is not worse than that which Diâ—trephes usurped for besides that hee sought for an Antichristian preheminence it is evident that the Church was unable to resist him and therefore the Apostle purposed himselfe to come and rebuke him Their own termes they use in this viz. Aegyptian and Babylonish Yoke shall teach them thus much for seeing that the Ieues remained still the Church of God even in that bondage that they stood under in Aegypt and Babylon why may not wee also remaine God Church still notwithstanding the Yoke which wee beare being nothing so heavie as that was OBJECT V. The last thing they object against the whole body of our Assemblies The fifth Objection against the whole body of our Church is that we obstinately continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions though we have bin duly convinced 1. Objection is false and insufficient to warrant their separation for some of our assemblies have mourned for that which is amisse and by all due meanes sought reformation Secondly some maintaine corruptions and oppugne the discipline because they are not yet in their consciences perswaded of the things Tit. 3.11 is this That wee obâ—tinately continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions though we have beene convinced concerning this point they have these words in the 23. page of their refutation Wee hold withall that no true Church or Christian will maintaine any sinne or error when it is evidently shewed and convinced to them by the Word of God much lesse persecute such as reprove and admonish them as you do In the 164. pag. they charge us with wilfull obstinacie open rejecting and resisting the truth c. To this reason we also give this answer That neither doe our Assemblies continue in the aforesaid wants and corruptions neither if they did should they therefore cease to be a true Church for First It is evident that many Ministers and Congreations have both by prayer unto God and all meanes that have been in their powers to use testified unto men their earnest desire to have these corruptions removed and the true discipline established Secondly The most of them that maintaine the evills that are amongst us and repugne the reformation which the rest have sought cannot bee justly charged with wilfull obstinacie or committing those things wherein their own consciences doe condemne them for seeing they professe and pretend that they are not yet in their judgment perswaded of these things and the whole conversation of many of them is such as gives us just cause to believe them who dare be so presumptuous as to judge thus of their hearts and consciences though hee were sure they have wanted no meanes whereby they might have beene convinced Considering that it is one thing to have had the meanes of convincing another thing to be convinced the former whereof may bee performed to us by men the other by the Lord only and that a people in whom some right meanes of convincing have not been effectuall may as well be the true Church of God as they that have received and profited by all right meanes that have beene used for their instruction and reformation of life Thirdly We have not yet had the right meanes used to convince us in sundry of those matters Thirdly Wee have not had so much as the right meanes used to convince us in these things which are in controversie between them and us that are in controversie betweene us and them for proofe whereof we referre our selves to the answer which we will hereafter make unto their articles in their conclusion Fourthly Though not only the right meanes had been used to convict us but they had also so farre prevailed with us that in judgment we saw the truth which they say is not practised amongst us and in heart did affect it yet would this sufficiently cleere us from the crime of wilfull obstinacie that wee have not power without the consent and permission of Christian Magistrates under whom we live by whose meanes we enjoy so many great benefits Fourthly Although wee were all throughly convinced yet have wee not power and warrant from God to redresse publike disorders and erect the discipline without the consent of the Christian Magistrates and whom if wee should thus farre provoke we should evidently hazzard
the losse of those things wherein the very life and being of a visible Church consisteth either to remove the corruptions that remaine amongst us or to establish those Church orders which wee want for although we doubt not but the whole truth of Christs doctrine may be lawfully taught though all the Magistrates in the world gaine-say it and practised also so farre forth by every Christian as the bounds of his particular calling permits and that it is the Magistrates principall honour in the sight of God and man to yeeld and submit himselfe to the instructions reproofes and censures of the Church so far forth as they are agreeable to the Word of God who is Lord of Lords and King of Kings Yet cannot we not see good reason to perswade us that the Church ought or may either pull downe corrupt Church government or erect the right discipline not onely without but contrary to the likeing of Christian Magistrates Thus much we finde in the Word of God Godly Princes First That in those publicke reformations of the Church which the word commendeth the Christian and godly Princes were ever the principall actors Secondly That for the want of publicke Reformation the Magistrate is every where blamed and no where the Church for ought we can find oft are the Priests and people blamed for erecting and practising Idolatry but never for that they plucked it not downe when their Princes had set them up Neither can wee finde whether ever the Church under a Christian Magistrate was by any Prophet either commanded to deale otherwise then by perswasion in publike Reformation when the Magistrate neglected it or reproved for the contrarie To that which they were wont to say then the Apostles were much to blame who in erecting the Church government never waited for nor sought the Magistrates leave and good likeing Wee answer that though without the Magistrates leave they did it Yet not contrarie to his liking or when he opposed his authoritie directly and inhibited it the never erected the discipline when there was so direct an opposition made against it by the civill Magistantes Secondly If it could bee proved that the Apostles did so then yet would it not follow that we also may doe so now for neither was the Heathen Magistrate altogether so much to bee respected by the Church as the Christian Magistrate is neither have our Ministers and people now so full and absolute a power to pull downe and set up orders in the Church as the Apostles those wise Master builders had Lastly though this were all proved Fisthly though we did voluntarily continue in those knowne wants corruptions having power to redresse them yet might we be the true Church notwithstanding that our Assemblies are throughly convinced in these points and that we having power to reforme that which is amisse doe yet voluntarily continue in those wants and corruptions yet might we be the true Churches of Christ notwithstanding for as true faith in Christ not morall obedience is that which giveth life and being to every true member of the Church so the profession of true faith in Christ rather than obedience is that which giveth the life and being to a visible Assembly So wee reade that many upon their profession of faith were baptized and incorporated into the Church a Acts 8.12 13 16 31 32. So that which made the Romuns a true Church in the judgment of Paul was that their faith was published throughout the world b Rom. 1.8 And generally that which made the Gentiles to whom hee preached a true Church was that they gave obedience of faith neither doe wee see what difference they will make betwixt the covenant of workes and the covenant of grace c Rom. 1.5 if they hold obedience to the Commandements of God necessary to the life and first being of a true Christian Church And as a wife ceaseth not to be a wife though in many things shee cease to be wilfully disobedient to her husband unlesse she sin either by desertion or whoredom and be divorced So neither the Church ceaseth to be the Church and Spouse of Christ till she be both sufficiently convinced of Atheisme or Idolatry and be divorced also the Lord taking from her His Word and Sacraments and all other his spirituall Jewells and Ornaments In the third Chapter of Ieremy both Israel and Iudah were charged with Idolatry and yet must we needs confesse that they still continued the true Church of God unlesse wee will say there was at that time no true visible Church in the world which was most absurd to affirme So the Corinthians being in the first Epistle convinced of the sinne of Idolatry d 1 Cor. 10.14 and other sinnes e 2 Cor. 6.14 12 21 13 2 the Church remaining in them as appeareth in the second Epistle f 2 Cor. 1.1 did yet continue to be the true Church of God notwithstanding and so are called in the same Epistle That which Henry Barrow in the 94. page of their refutation excuseth this Church by viz. that it was orderly gathered and established may as well bee alleadged for our Assemblies as for the Church of Cor. as we hope may appeare by that which hath been above said in our Answer to the first Objection they make against the whole body of our Church He that was once a brother though he persist in his sinnes he hath beene convinced of not by one brother only but by two or three yea though he commit some presumptuous sinnes ceaseth not to bee a brother notwithstanding Matth. 18.15 16. how much lesse shall a Church cease to be a true Church b Psalme 19. because it hath been convinced of some grosse corruptions by one or some few The high places were continued in Israel and Iudab and that under the Reigne of sundry good Kings notwithstanding the reproofe of many Prophets Yet were they of Israel and Iudah accounted the Church still neither did the Prophets cease to communicate with them c 2 Kings 1.3 15.3 Neither would those that remained in Babylon after the Proclamation of Cyrus which was also the Commandement of God d 2 Chro. 36.22 Ezra 2.2 to returne thrust out of the account of the Church as appeareth by the communion of them with the Church of Ierusalem and the bookes of Ezra and Nehemiah notwithstanding partly in feare of the danger partly in a love of the commoditie which they setled themselves in during the captivitie they did not build the Temple in person but only sent mony for the building Lastly the Apostle setteth downe a Rule which is directly contrary to this fourth Article of their first exception in these words Let us therefore as many as are perfect bee thus mind d and if in any thing ye be otherwise mind d Philip. 3.15 God shall reveale the same unto you Neverthelesse Whereto we have already attained let us walke by the
Antichristian which is false slanderous for the office and duties whereunto we are called are the very same which the word prescribeth not those that popish Priests are called unto Is that the Office whereunto our ministerie is called is not that which Christ hath Ordained but that which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto Concerning these points these are their words in the 158. page of their refutation They have served in and belonged unto Antichrist even the Popes Kingd me and Throne the false Church with all the abominable Jdolatrie therein ANSWER I. To which their Objection we give this answer The preaching of the whole truth of Gods Word and nothing but it the administration of the Sacraments and of publicke prayer as they are all the parts of the Ministers Office prescribed in the word so are they all appointed to our Ministers by the Law And for so much as there is no Priest-hood in the Popish Church that is not ordained to offer that Idolatrous sacrifice of the Masse or that was ever called unto and necessarily enjoyned those duties of ministery that are required of us Wee see not with what truth our brethren can say that our Office is the same which Antichrist calleth his Priests unto And if our Office bee the same which Antichrist hath ordained how falleth it out that the Papists give a new ordination to such as having had that which our Church giveth doe in Apostacie shrinke unto them And if it be objected Though some popish Priests are allowed to exercise the Ministerie without any new Ordination that our Church admitteth such as were ordained by Antichrist without any new ordination whereby appeareth that our office and theirs is all one we answer First That though they have no other ordination yet in more essentiall parts of their outward calling unto the Ministery there are so many differences to be observed in the practise of our Church that no indifferent man can thinke we judge the calling that any man hath had in popery to be sufficient for exercise of their Ministerie in our Church Secondly The receaving of some into the Ministerie that have bin popish Priests without new ordination as we take it to be a grievous corruption and such as wee will by no meanes seeke to justifie so wee thinke it cannot by any shew of good reason be alledged to prove that the calling which all our Ministers have is the very same which the Popish Priests exercise but onely to shew either the outward calling which some of our Ministers exercise is the very same with that of the popish Priests or at the most that some chiefe Governours in the Church doe in their judgement hold that there is no new Ordination The first reason against our office is that we all receive one Antichristian Deaconship which hath not force to condemne our office seeing under the nâ—me of Priest and Deacon many receive at one time the full power of ministerie Philip. 1.1 1 Tim. 3.8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ephes 3.7 Col. 1.7 23. 1 Tim. 4.6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Acts 1.17 25 6.4 12.25 20 24. Rom. 12.13 1. Cor. 12.5 Thirdly Although he that is called to be a Deacon be restrained from some worke that belongs to a Minister yet is he not called to doe ought that is unlawfull to bee required in such a case both which if wee should grant yet had they granted nothing at all in the question that is betwixt us The first reason whereby they would prove that office whereunto our Ministers are called is not that which Christ hath ordained but that whereunto Antichrist hath called his Priests is That we are called unto such a Deaconship as is not according unto Christs Testament but Popish and Antichristian Whereunto we answer 1. That if the Deaconship and Priest-hood as they terme it bee taken by us both at once as usually they are then we are enabled to doe whatsoever a Minister of the Gospell may doe of himselfe without the assistance of the Eldership and so the errour that is committed resteth in the forme and ceremony only not in the matter it selfe Secondly though it were indeed to be wished that every office in the Church were called by the proper name which the Scripture giveth it Yet if the Church give a wrong name to a right and lawfull office the office is not therefore to bee refused much lesse is the power to preach the word and to administer the one of the Sacraments therefore to bee refused because it is given by the name of the Deacons Office considering that although in the strict and most proper sence the Scripture calleth them Deacons to whom the Office of caring for the poore is committed yet sometimes also all that labour in the word are comprehended under this name and the ministery of the word is called a Deaconship Thirdly If it be objected that our Deaconship is neither approved nor mentioned in the Scripture because it restraineth us from dealing with the one Sacrament and so separateth those things which God hath coupled Wee answer That this can bee no reason against our Ministers because when they are made Deacons they are not called to do any thing that is unlawfull but only cut short for a time and restrained from some thing which they may or ought to doe much lesse can it bee alleadged against all our Ministers because many of us as it is above said were made both Deacons and Priests as they speake fondly in one day and so tooke the full power and authoritie of ministery without any such separation or many as is here objected The second reason against our office viz this we be called by such names as are popish is fond insufficient For the name Priest though not simply unlawfull yet in our Churches iudged unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospell Bishop Horne against Feâ—kman fol. 95. fol. 111. Thirdly If all were called by popish names yet might wee be true Ministers Their second reason against our office and function is That â—ee are not knowne by the right names that in the Word an given to the Ministers of Christ but by such names as have been devised â—nd given by the Papists as Priest Pri-son Vicar and Curate c. To which we answer first Concerning the name Priest although we thinke that at the first it was well enough applyed to the Preachers of the Word because it was derived from the Greeke Word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that signifies an Elder Yet because it is used now by the prophane as a terme of scorne and hath a long time both by Papists and others been by common custome abused and appropriated to such as do sacrifice therfore not only the most of our poople refuse to call us by that name but even some who have been chiefe Governours of our Church have judged it unfit to be given unto the Ministers of the Gospell Secondly
unlawfull for us to yeeld some kinde of obedience to Bishops so doe we performe it in our whole administration by going to their Courts by standing and falling at their commandement Whereunto we answer First that so long as the Christian Magistrate requireth we should yield obedience to the Bishops and that with this limitation viz. only in things lawfull and honest wee thinke it not unlawfull for us to give obedience to them in those things they doe by civill authoritie though neither themselves nor the Magistrate might well require us to doe for even our Saviour Himselfe yeelded obedience to Cesar in such a thing wherein Caesar could not lawfully exact obedience of him as for the excommunication and suspentions Mat. 17.24 27 and such other censures as are meerely Ecclesiasticall We answer As the true Church of God which from the Lord Iesus hath received these keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven did though unadvisedly and unlawfully deliver them over into the hands of the Bishops And the Bishops being Preachers of the Word though they should not have this power wholly committed unto them yet are they capable of it We see not how it should be utterly unlawfull to reverence and yeeld to the censures of Christs Church being exercised and administred even by them unlesse wee will say that the Church presently looseth her right and power to censure Offenders when she committeth it unto any such men as unto whom of right either not at all or not of right only it belongeth Secondly Secondly Not bind our selves thereto by oath so far as we doe Now as wee may lawfully yeeld some obedience to the Bishops in these things so wee may lawfully binde our selves by oath to doe it if our oathes be required or us by the Christian Magistrates anthoririe especially seeing we doe by oath binde our selves to obey in regard of the civill authoritie which is committed to them by the Christian Magistrate Thirdly For our going to their Courts this we answer That seeing we doe testifie in our callings our dislike to the vile and odious corruptions of their Courts And doe also utterly refuse to yeeld obedience to any oâ— their unlawfull decrees we cannot justly bee condemned for appearing intheir Courts or any other place whereunto we are by His Majesties authoritie summoned And whereas the persons before whom wee appeare are judged usually corrupt and enemies to that Reformation which wee desire and some of them also such as being no ministers themselves do by all meanes seeke the disgrace of our calling and the utter discoutagement of such Christians as in whom they perceive any sparkes of true zeale wee account this our appeating at their Courts not onely for an abridgment of our libertie but also for such a burthen as wee have just cause to groane under and to pray that God would in His good time move His Majesties heart to eate us of it And yet as the Apostle being free was content for the Churches sake not onely to become bound in serving it with the labour of his hands but also by subjecting himselse to those Ceremonies which in Christ were abolished so may and ought we for the Churches sake to beare this burden rather than to forsake or refuse the ministerie when the Lord hath called and fitted us unto it For our yeelding to the suspentions and deprivations wee answer That so long as the Bishops suspend and deprive according to the Law of the Land wee account of the action herein Fourthly To cease from the execution of our ministerie when they suspend or deprive us as of the act of the Church which wee may and ought to reverence and yeeld unto if they doe otherwise wee have liberty given us by the Law to appeale from them if it bee said that the Church is not to bee obeyed when it suspends and deprives us for such causes as wee in our Consciences know to be insufficient We answer That it lyeth in them to depose that may ordaine and they may shut that may open And that as he may with a good conscience execute a ministerie by the ordination and calling of the Church who is privie to himselfe of some unfitnesse if the Church will presse him to it so may he who is privie to himselfe of no fault that deserveth deprivation cease from the execution of his ministery when he is pressed thereunto by the Church And if a guiltlesse person put out of his charge by the Churches authoritie may yet continue in it what proceedings can there bee against guiltie persons who in their owne conceit are alwaies guiltlesse or will at least pretend so to be Seeing they also will bee readie alwayes to object against the Churches judgment that they are called of God and may not therefore give over the execution of their ministerie at the will of man And yet admitting it were meerely unlawfull Fourthly If this obedience wee yeeld to them were utterly unlawfull yet may we be true Ministers of Christ notwithstanding upon any respect to yeeld any new obedience at all to the censures of the Bishops yet how will it follow that this our unlawfull yeelding hath force sufficient to make us ipso fasto no true Ministers unlesse you will say that the High Priests who were in Christs time that took and left their offices at the will of tyrants and heathen Princes Were therefore not to be accounted Priests for further answer hereunto we referre the Reader to that which wee have above said to the fourth thing which they object against the whole body of our Assemblies And to that also which wee have already answered unto the fourth reason which they bring against our office The speech of the Apostls The speech of the Apostles Acts 4.19 20 15. most unskilfully alleaged against us 1 Tim. 6.2 which they are wont to object against us in this case may easily appeare how unskilfully it is alleadged to them that will consider these three differences betweene their case and ours First they that inhibited the Apostles were knowne and professed enemies to the Gospell Secondly the Apostles were charged not to teach in the name of Christ nor to publish any part of the Doctrine of the Gospell which commandement might more hardly bee yeelded unto then this of our Bishops who though they cannot indure them which teach that part of the truth that concerneth the good government and reformation of the Church yet are they not only content that the Gospell should bee preached but are also preachers of it themselves Thirdly The Apostles received not their calling and authority from men (c) Galath 2.1 nor by the hands of men but immediately from God Himselfe and therefore also might not bee restrained or deposed by men whereas wee though we exercise a function whereof God is the Author and we are also called of God to it yet are we called and ordeined by the hand and ministerie of men and may therefore by men
in the Reformation of their lives because partly for that they knew it not and partly for that they are hindred by authoritie they practise not the whole discipline of Christ And this rash judgment which they give of our people is so much the more blame-worthy because they cannot be ignorant with what care our people have sought by all good and dutifull meanes the Reformation of the Church And how much they have be wailed and mourned for the want thereof for which matter also wee referre the Reader to the answer we have above given to their fourth and fifth objections against the whole body of our Assemblies Secondly Our people deserve not to be blamed for that they erect not the discipline for First They esteeme both our Prince to be a most lawfull and a Christian Magistrate and our Ministers to bee true Ministers of Christ by whose meanes seeing they have received from God and do still enjoy not those blessings only that belong to the comfort of this life but the meanes of eternall happinesse and the effectuall assurance of it also they are justlie afraid that by enterprising a publike Reformation not only without but contrary to the direction and liking of them who by Gods Word ought to have if not the only yet the principall hand in that worke they should highly offend God 2. They cannot finde any warrant in holy Scripture for them that are private Members of the Church to erect the discipline no not though the Magistrate and Ministers who should deale in this worke were altogether profane and ungodlie in deviding the Land of Canaan which was a type of Heaven and of the Church under the Gospell and in all the Church causes that were dealt in under the government of Iosua which was a type of Christs government neither private persons nor the whole multitude had the managing of matters Iosh 19.51 21 1. 22 14 but the people did all by the Elders and chiefe Fathers a which also was commanded b Numb 34.16.28 So in publike Church causes under the Gospell the Lord hath ordained certaine speciall men chosen out from among the people by their consent to rule and governe the rest c 1 Tim. 5.17 4.14 And where God hath sanctified and separated a speciall sort of men to any office or the administration thereunto belonging there hath hee restrained all others that are not of the same sort from doing the actions properly belonging to that office as may well appeare by comparing these places of holy Scripture together d Numbr 4.15 with the first Chron 13.7 10 Num. 4.20 with 1 Sam. 6.19 Num. 16.40 3.10 Heb. 5.4 with 2 Chron. 26.16 19. Acts 14.23 Therefore also wee see the faithfull at Listra â—conium and Antiochiah l ad no Elders till the Apostles by their consent ordained them No more had they at Creta till Tiâ—us was sent to that purpose To the places of holy Scripture which they alleadge for this their second Objection against our people we answer First That some of them a Ier. 31.34 Ezech. 44.8 9. Cant. 4.7 1 Pet. 2.9 Acts 15.9 concerne the invisible Church and therfore are ignorantly applyed to the description of them that are members of the Church visible As if no measure of faith and holinesse were to be allowed by men in the judging of the members of the Church visible but that onely which the Lord Himselfe alloweth of in juding of the elect Members of the visible Church Whereas it is evident that to the making of the Members of the visible Church an outward obedience and profession of faith is sufficient though there be no inward grace nor truth in the heart Secondly That some of them require indeed that every Christian should seeke the Kingdome of God and the place where God is worshipped according to his Word submit themselves to the Yoke of Christ and to obey him in all his Ordinances but that the people without either the Magistrate or Ministers helpe or consent should reform the Church and erect the discipline they are so farre from commanding that if they be well compared with that wee have above said they will be found to command the contrarie The third thing they object against our people Is That though some of them had once beene faithfull yet by tollerating in their Assemblies the open prophane by wanting power to cast them out and communicateing with them in their worship of God they are now become not ue Church of Christ Whereunto we answer First that the godly which are in our Assemblies do not at all tollerate the wicked profane but doe as much as in them lieth shew their dislike to them mourning also for their profanenesse and for the want of Christian discipline whereby they might be separated Yea the very Lawes of our Church as hath beene above said doe separate from our Assemblies the open prophane Secondly admit they did not at all shut out the prophanie either because they know not their right or for that they are hindred and restrained to doe it or that they sin in not using their right in this case or if it were granted that the people even the private members of the assemblies had full authoritie given them by Christ without the Ministers or Magistrates consent to cast out and excommunicate the open profane the contrary whereof hath been before sufficiently proved yet might they as lawfully for want of power or for such inconveniences tollerate the prophanie amongst them and so forbeare the execution of their authoritie in this case as either David did spare Joab 2 Sam 3 39. 2. Kings 14 5. or Amaziah those rebels that slew his father because they were not strong enough doe justice upon them Thirdly the communicating in Gods service with these open sinners Thirdly they may be true members of the Church though they doe communicate in Gods worship with the open profane as may appeare by the example of the godly that lived under the law whom the godly in some of our assemblies are enforced to communicate with or to want the benefit of Gods publike worship is not sufficient either to make him profane or pollute unto them the holy things of God for proofe whereof we alleadge First the examples of the godly that lived under the Ceremoniall law The Prophets either served not God at all in the Temple or else they joyned in Gods service with many that were notoriously stained with grosse sinnes for who are they whose sinnes the Prophets so mightily cry out upon (d) Esay 1.10 Jer. 5.1.9 and 7 8.11 Ezek. 16 4â—.52 and 22 25.26 but such as were admitted to the publike worship of God If the Babylonians and the Caldeans should violently have included themselves into the Church assemblies of Gods people in the time of their captivitie should the godly Jewes by such presence of the wicked which they wanted power to hinder either have beene perswaded to cease
probable that they were not private men but had a speciall calling to the Office of preaching The Disciples that being scattered through persecutions went about preaching may very well be thought to have beene Ministers rather than private men unlesse we shall imagine there were no Ministers in Iernfalem before the Church was scattered but the Apostles only and Philip who is also called an Evangelist is the only man of name amongst all these scattered Disciples that preached The Prophets mentioned in the 1 Cor. 14. is very likely were either such as whose extraordinarie gifts did suficientlie prove to the Church that they were extraordinariâ—e stirred up and called of God or else such as being separated to the work of the ministerie were by that exercise of their gifts to bee fitted to the full execution of that office as those children of the Prophets were for the like purpose trained up in these Schooles of the Prophets mentioned in the Old Testament And as they cannot conclude out of these places that those Prophets were meere private men so shall they not fâ—â—tle the name of a Prophet given in any place of holy Scripture to a meere private man The preaching mentioned Luke 8.39 the expounding of the way of God Acts 18 26. the exhorting spoken of 1 Thes 5.11 was not Eccleâ—iasticall or Church preaching but only private and do mesticall instruction Some other places which they alleadge a Phil. 2.15 16 Peter 3.12 concerne neither publike preaching nor private instruction but onely the constant profession of the truth and holy conversation which God requireth of every Christian Thirdlie the grosse disorders that are to be found in their Assemblie we have mentioned to which the strange choâ—se of their Ministers may be added For by what Testimonic of holy Scripture can they warrant the admitting or choosing in to the ministerie such a one as within some six or eight weekes before was tramplanted from so Antichristian a Church and ministerie as they reckon ours to be As not onely Master Francis Johnson but sundrie other of their Ministers have beene Sure wee are that herein they have done directly contrary to the rule of the holy Apostle and for smaller faults then this they are ready to say against us in the 127. page of their refutation That he that hath not a true and right calling unto his Office is no true Minister but an Vsurper an Intruder a Thiefe a Murderer c. But what shall we need to reckon up any more of the disorders that may be noted in their Church government seeing it is not possible but that those Assemblies should be full of confusion and disorder where no Church censure can passe without the consent of every private man and wherein every member is made equall in power and authoritie with the Ministers and Elders of the Church These things being so what is there to be seene amongst them whereby so many simple Christians are deceived and moved to forsake us and joyne to them Save onely that shew of sinceritie and zeale and holy conversation wherein they are thought to go far beyond any of us Concerning which wee say that although the coversation of many of our people and Ministers also be very scandalous and the lives of the best of us far short of that perfection we dayly strive unto Yet it shall well appeare to him that will rightly consider these few lines following That the power of true godlinesse is much more wanting amongst them then 't is with us whom they have forsaken for it we may judge of the schollers by their teachers and of the miserable seduced multitude by their chief Leaders and if men do not use to speak much lesse to write but from the abundance of their harts then have they as smal cause certainlie to bost of their holines to say they are not as other men nor as we are whom they have forsaken as the Pharisee in the Gospel said (b) Luke 18 9.11.14 This wee dare boldly say that there was never any man of note in our Church that in his writings hath bewrayed so irreligeous and unsanctified a spirit as their chiefe Leaders have done For proofe whereof wee desire the Christian Reader to consider first the shamefull lies which wittingly and against the light of their owne hearts they have published and whereby they have in a manner borne false witnesse against us In the ninth page of their Discovery they say That all the Atheists Papists and Anabaptists and Heretiques of all sorts Whores Theeves Witches Conjurers and who not that dwelleth in this Island or is within the Queenes dominions are received and nourished within the bosome of this Church with the Word and Sacraments none are refused none kept out In the 60. page of their Discovery they say These Priests and people retaine the Leviticall Decimations in the same forme to the same end In the 63. and 64. pages they affirme That the service book is the very ground worke of our Faith Church and Ministry from whence we fetch all our directions for all things That we are sworne to and by this booke That the Word of God may not be taught but where this bath been read In the 28. page They say we all adore the words of Salutation which the Angel Gabriel used to the Virgin Mary That we worship either the Purification or the person of our Lady So they maliciously say we torme the blessed Virgin And that we powre out unto her our drinke Offerings and burne incense to the Queen of heaven Whereas through divers pages they charge us with keeping Fasts and Feasts to honour of Saints In the 100. page they say Their Priest Baptiseth the childe In the Name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and of the holy Crosse In the 148. page They say it is vtterly denyed in the Church of England that the Magistrate should be Excommunicated In the 183. page They say that it is impossible to finde two of ouâ— Ministers in one minde and judgement yea in any two Churches of the Land to have the same doctrine taught In the 188. page they say That no one place of Scripture which maketh expresse mention of the government of Christ As Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. and 15. and is suffered to be so much as read in our Churches In the 175. page they say These new Glasses take upon them to make Ministirs A second note whereby we may try the spirits of their chief Leaders is their spitefull railing wherein they are so rich and plentifull as wee know not how to finde amongst all the rabble of profane and ungodly men any one that goeth beyond them in it our Ministers they call Balamites Cananites Babylonish Divines Egyptian Enckanters limmes of the Divell as bitter enemies as Turkish Ianizaries marked souldiers of the Beast such as know not the Doctrines of the beginning of Christ such as were nusled even from the mothers breast