Apostasie Because it is a Ministery that was not set by Christ in his Church This doth hee most grosly runne round in a circle as if I should proue that his Ministery is vnlawfull because hee is a Schismatick and that hee is a Schismatick because his Ministery is vnlawful The 2. Reason wherby he proues his Proposition followeth Fr. Iohn 2. If the Prelates of the Church of England haue such offices and Gouerment as be speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasie then the Ministery ordained by them thervnto must needs bee the Ministery of that Apostasie But the Prelats of the Church of England haue such offices and gouerment as bee speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasy Therfore the Ministery ordained by them is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The consequent is manifest because the fruit must needs bee as the tree is Mat. 7.16 and who can bring a clean thing out of filthinesse Iob 14.4 The Assumption is proued 1. Whosoever besids Christ haue such offices and Gouerment wherby the claime to bee spirituall Lords the haue the offices and Gouerment which are speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasy and are indeed very Antichrists themselues But such are the Prelats of the Church of Englande Therfore the haue such offices and Gouerments as are speciall purts of Antichrists Apostasy The Proposition is proued by those places of Scripture which teach that there is but one spirituall Lord the Lord Iesus The Assumption is proued by the lawes and Statutes of the land wherin they are called Lords Spirituall and in their Canons they take vpon them to prescribe their owne ordinaunces to the Ghurch for the worship of God and binde the spiret and couscience to the acknowledgement and approbation therof and to giue the holy Ghost 2. The offices and Gouerment of such Bishops as are ouer Diocesan and Prouinciall Churches and exercise Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction ouer all the Ministers and people therin are speciall parts of Antichrists Apostasie But such are the Prelates of the Church of Englande Ergo They haue such offices and gouerment as bee specially parts of Antichrists Apostasie Answere 1. I deny the cōsequent of the Proposition of the 1. Sillogisme The officers gouernors of Antichrists Apostasy may haue ordained some things that are Christian Nether doth the saying of Christ or Iob proue the consequent for though it should be graunted vnto him that the gouernors of Antichrists Apostasy haue ordained this Ministery yet doth it not follow that it is therfore a propre meere fruit of Antichrist but may be an dentall effect as are many other things which hee ordaineth agreable to Christs owne ordinaunces so that hee must proue that our Ministery ordained by the Pope or Bishops doth as properly flowe from the nature of their office and gouerment as figs from a fig tree or grapes from a vine or filthy water from a foule fountaine The contrary wherof is in this case most euident For leaue the bare names and tytles and consider our Ministery in all the essentiall parts and offices therof and it is a possible either for a Presbythery or for any perticuler Church such in constitution as their owne to ordaine the like Ministery in all points and respects with all the defects and faults therof 2. Concerning the first profe of the Assumption The Proposition may bee denied It being one thing to bee and another to make claine to bee for euery one is not that which hee claimeth to bee The Instances alledged to proue the Assumption either are fals or proue it not The lawes may giue their titles to men which they doe not claime Neither doe either their Canons or practis shew that they prescribe their owne ordinances for worship or propound to binde mens consciences to the acknowledgement of any such matter The professe the contrary and vrge their owne ordinaunces onely vnder the name of things indifferent Though therfore in error of iudgement they may and happily doe commande such ordinances of their owne as are diuine worship and in such a manner as it bindeth conscience which M. Iohnsons owne Church in many cases may doe except they think themselues priviledged from error yet they protesting against any such power and authority they cannot be saide therin to arrogate the office of Spirituall Lords in that sence at least in which Christ is said to bee the only Spirituall Lord. And though in their ordination of Ministers they vse as a ceremoniall speech to say Receaue the holy Ghost and therin peraduenture offer some force vnto the Scripture vnto which the allude yet they disclaime al actuall power and authority of giuing the person or gifts of the holy Ghost vnto men It shall bee needlesse in this controversie to spend time in the defence of the calling of Bishops any further then the necessity of the argument requires Onely for the further clearing of the truth in the differences of them of the Seperation not only from the Bishops but from the other sort of Ministers also which doe not approue of their callings I offer theis pointes vnto them to consider of advisedly 1. Whether the Supreame Magistrate haue not power to ouer see and Gouerne all the severall Churches with in his dominions yea whether hee bee not bound so to doe 2. Whether for his further helpe and assistance herein hee may not make choise of graue learned and reuerent men to assist him in the same gouerment 3. Whether by vertue of his power theis persons thus called to assist the Supreame Magistrate may not lawfully try the gifts of all the severall Ministers with in his dominions and giue publique approbation of the worthy inhibit those which they finde vnworthy frō the execution of their Ministery whether they may not visit the severall Ministers and Churches conuent them before them examine them how they haue behaued themselues in their places and punish the blame worthy 4. Whether for the more easy and orderly Gouerment of the said Churches so far forth as appertaineth to him hee may not devide his kingdom as ours is into Provinces assigning over each of them vnder himself some speciall Magistrat for learning and experience to oversee and gouerne all the perticuler Churches there and whether hee may not subdevide those Provinces into Diocesses assigning also to them other more inferior officers vnder him and his provinciall officers to over see the severall Churches with in such and such a precincte 5. Whether it doe destroy the nature of a Ministeriall or a perticular true visible Church that many of them should appertaine vnto one Provinciall or Diocesame gouerment though in that respect they should bee held and reputed but for one Provinciall or Diocesame Church 6. Whether Antichrist hauing vsurped the Kings Supremacy and taken into his hands this authority and corrupted the same hath made it now vnlawfull for the Magistrate to execute the same in manner and forme a fore saide or whether the Iurisdiction a fore saide doe not
and roote out of their dominions is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Such is their Ministery Therefore it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy The Assumption is proued in the former reason and in other Treatises and by some of themselues in their Suites to Parlament and if the Prelats and their conforming cleargy deny it they are by their owne Canons excōmunicated ipso facto Answere This sixt Argument is borrowed from the first Reason wher it is brought to proue that our Ministery is not the Ministery of Pastors and Teachers as here it is brought againe to proue that it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy Thus then hee reasoneth the King may and ought to suppresse this Ministery Therfore it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasy But how doth hee proue That the King ought to suppresse this Ministery Hee refers vs for the proofe therof especially to the former Reason how doth hee proue it ther Thus. It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Therfore the king ought to suppresse it Is not this learned stuffe Concerning his other Treatises which hee so often sends vs vnto as if they were in every streete and market place of the lande wee haue not so much idle time to seeke after them and wee presume wee shall find noe better stuffe in them then in this If any amongst vs haue put vp any such suit to the Parlament for the Abollishing of our Ministery in generall let them answer for themselues But the Prelats may well laugh at his simplicity and seelinesse of wit that thinks to fright them with such a bug-beare as this in making them beleeue that they are by their owne Canons excommunicated ipso facto if they deny that the King may and ought to abolish our Ministery Fr. Iohn If it bee such as shall bee abolished by the Lord throughout the power and light of his Gospell The 7. Arg. then is it the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The first is true Therfore the latter is true also Answere The same answer will serue to this Argument that was giuen to the former For the Assumption is fals The light of the Gospell shall more and more confirme establish and perfect it and remoue all the defects and blemishes in it his profe is as ridiculous and sophisticall as is the former for hee proues it by the same question that here it is brought to proue for so in effect proceeds his disputation That which shall bee abolished is Antichristian Our Ministery shall bee abolished Ergo It is Antichristian But how doth hee for our learning proue that our Ministery shall bee abolished very learnedly and profoundly thus That which is Antichristian shall be abolished Our Ministery is Antichristian Therfore it shall be abolished For this is the effect of that idle discourse of 2. or 3. leaues viz. pag. 46 -51 tending to proue That Antichrist and all his offices shall be abolished THE THIRD REASON EXAMINED WHat soever Ministery is such none can heare or haue any spirituall communion with it but in so doing hee shall worship the Image of the beast and receaue his Marke in his forehead or hand That Ministery may none heare or haue any spirituall communion with all But the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England is such as none can heare or haue any spirituall Communion therwith but in so doing hee shall worship the Beasts image and receaue his marke in his forehead or hand Ergo None may heare or haue any Spirituall communion therwith Answere This Reason for the effect and substance therof differeth not from the seconde for what is it by his owne interpretation to worship the beasts image but to subiect himselfe to the Ministery and worship of Antichrists Apostasie and how is it possible for him to proue this but by runing to the former Reasons for their help therin For the profe of the Assumption hee sets vs downe a tedious and impertinent discours of some six leaues of paper teaching what is meant by the beast his Image and by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand The some and effect wherof is this That by Beast wee are to vnderstand the Romaine Dominion and Antichrists hierarchie withall the offices lawes Pag. 51. 63. and authority appertaining thervnto That by worshipping the Beasts Image may bee vnderstoode the yealding of spirituall subiection to that Antichristian kingdome in the lawes offices and Iurisdiction therof That by receaving the marke in the forehead or hand is publiquely to professe and obserue them not being a shamed of the beasts wayes And this doe all they who submitte to the goverm̄et of Prelats Priests Parsons Vicars booke worship c. Not to contende about this interpretation but to suppose it true ther is nothing in substance here brought to confirme the 3. Reason but that which is in the 2. Reason viz. that therfore wee worship the beast in communicating with our Ministery Because it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie And therfore it needs noe other Answer then what hath bene giuen already Only thus much further That for men so far forth to submit to the Gouerment of such Prelats c. as our lawes doe require is not to yealde spirituall subjection to the Kingdom of Antichriste nor without shame to professe the Beasts wayes For they may not withstanding that bee subject to Christ and his lawes and to fight against the beast Yea though it should be graunted that ther in sundry perticulers they yeald to some things in their vse Antichristian and vnlawfull which the best reformed Churches and Ministers sometimes of ignorance or infirmity may doe and yet remaine the Churches and Ministery of Christ THE FOVRTH REASON EXAMINED NOne may heare or joine in any Spirituall Communion with that Ministery which deriveth not their power and function of Ministery from Christ which is the head for the edification of his Church which is his body Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore none may heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion therwith Answere This reason is the same with the first for it is all one To be derived from Christ To be set by Christ in his Church The other words which here hee addeth Doth noe more vary the force of the Argument then a new garment put vpon the same witnesse would make him a nue and different witnesse from himselfe In the profe of the Assumption hee daubes 6. pages bringing therin nothing but his ould brokery the substance wherof is as followeth 1. Pag. 64. 70. That our Ministers haue not these offices which Christ hath giuen to his Church for the worke of his Ministery 2. That it is the Ministery of Deacons and Priests made by the Prelats 3. That they were left in England by the Pope and are still in the Kingdome of Antichrist wher they first rose and theefore is devilish and by consequent the more gifts and truth the Ministers bring with them the
onely that which they iudge lawfull being as ready as any of the seperatiō to suffer rather then practis approue or assent vnto any thing which they judge vnlawfull and vnwarrantable Obj. But suppose they had some other lawfull calling yet they also retaining this vnlawfull calling of the Prelats this were but to halt betweene two opinions and to set their threshould by Gods threshoulds and their posts by Gods posts Ans How can such bee said to retaine the vnlawfull calling of the Prelats which protest against the same professe that they preach not by that but by another calling But if ther bee any such that exercise their Ministery by another calling besids that of the Prelats they therin refuse obeidience and conformitie to what soever in the Prelats calling they judge vnlawfull and so doe not joyne an vnlawfull and a lawfull calling together but reject the corruptions retaine the good and supplie the defect with another calling and this is the worste that can bee made of it But this is not to joyne mans Treshoulds to Gods c. but clean contrary to seperate them as much as may bee And how can they bee saide to halt betweene two opinions when so far onely as the truth in their iudgement and opinion is established by publique lawes they imbrace it acknowledging their subjection to the same lawes and contrarily wher they judge that the law swerves from the truth they take another course But still hee begs this which is the maine controversie that our Ministers haue receaued an vnlawfull calling from the Prelates In the next place hee labors to proue by reasons that howsoever some pretend another calling yet it is evident that the execute all the duties of their Ministeries by virtue of their calling taken from their Prelats But what of that This will stand him in noe steed vnlesse it bee given him of almes That every Ministery executed by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats is an vnlawfull and an Antichristian Ministerie For proue it hee cannot And if wee should except this also bee given him That our Ministery is executed ONLY by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats and not by any other power or virtue besids taken either from God or man But let vs see his reasons 1. They cannot stand publique Ministers except they receaue of the Prelats the Priesthood and Deaconry a foresaid 2. They are excommunicated ipso facto if they affirme that they whoe are made Bishops Deacons and Priests are not lawfully made vntill thie haue some other calling 3. The people haue not the liberty of the Churches of Christ nor power in this their estate to chose and submit vnto the true and lawfull Ministery appointed by Christ 4. Without and against the peoples consent they are by the Prelats a lone silenced depriued and degraded from exercisiing any Ministery in those Assemblies Theis reasons doe not proue That they exercise their ministery ONLY by virtue of a calling receaved frō the Prelats and therfore whether true or fals are nothing to the purpose and vnworthy any further Answer After this hee fetcheth another Rode out and laboureth to proue that our Ministers ought not to suffer themselues to bee silenced and deposed from their publique Ministery no not by lawfull Magistrats which is not onely fals and seditious as shall appeare afterwarde but idle and impertinent to the present controversie for if it were true that Ministers ought not to doe in this case as ours doe yet this doth not argue any corruption in the calling of their Ministery but a weacknesse onely in the Persons that execute it in yealding further from their owne right then they neede to doe But let vs consider the perticulers that hee objecteth against our Ministers in this respect Obj. The Apostles being true Ministers of Christ would not at the commandement of lawfull Magistrats leaue to preach much lesse should true Ministers at the appointement of vsurping Prelats Nether did the Apostles make their imediate calling from God the ground of their refusall but this That they ought to obey God rather then man which is a duty required of all Ministers and Christians Ans 1. Wher hee distinguisheth between silencing depriving by Prelats and lawfull Magistrats it is in our case wher the Prelats doe it by Authority and commission from lawfull Magistrats a distinction without a difference 2. Though the Apostles did not assigne their imidiate calling from God as the ground of their refusall in so many letters and sillables yet that which they doe assigne is by implication and in effect the same with it for it is as much as if they had said God himselfe hath imposed this calling vpon vs and not man therfore except wee should rather obey man then God wee may not forbeare this office which hee hath imposed vpon vs. For opposing the obeidience of God to the obeidience of man hee therin pleads a calling from God and not from man otherwise if they had receaved a calling from man there had bene incongruitie in the answer considering that in common sence and reason they ought so far forth to obey men forbidding them to exercise a calling as they exercise the same by virtue of that calling els by this reason A Minister should not ceas to preach vpon the commandemēt of the Church that hath chosen him but should be bound to giue them also the same answer which they Apostles gaue which were absurd So that by this grosse conceit of M. Iohnsons their should bee no power in any sort of men whomsoever to depose a Minister from his Ministery but that notwithstāding any comandement of Church or State the Minister is to continue in his Ministery But for the further answer of this his ignorant conceit plainly tending to sedition wee are to know That though the Apostles Prophets and Euangelists preached publiquely where they were not hindred by open violence And did not nor might not leaue their Ministery vpon any humain Authoritie and commandement whatsoever because they did not enter into or exercise the same vpon the will and pleasure of any man whatsoever yet they never erected and planted publique Churches and Ministeries in the face of the Magistrate whether they would or noe or in dispite of them But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrat were as private and invisible as might bee Neither were some of the Apostles onely forbidden so as others should bee suffered to preach the same Ghospel in their places but the vtter abolishing of Christian Religion was manifestly intended in the silencing of them But our Churches wherof wee are Ministers are noe private secreat Assemblies such as hide themselues from the face of a persecuting Magistrat and State But are publique professing their worship doing their religion in the face of the Magistrate and State yea and by his contenance authoritie and protection And wee are set over those Churches not onely by a calling of
therfore will stand him in noe steed whether it bee true or fals and therfore I leaue it to their maintenance from whom hee saith hee borroweth it THE FIFT REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE offer of Conference EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Propositions propounded to bee maintained in the offer of Conference bee true To avoid tediousnes I forbeare to set them downe as M Iohnson hath done but thou shalt discern what they are afterward in the Answer then is it not lawfull to heare or haue any speciall Communion with the present Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande But those Propositions are true Ergo It is not lawfull to haue any Speciall Communion with the same Answere The Consequent is fals doth not follow from the said Propositions 1. Though it should be graunted That all matters meerely Ecclesiasticall lawfully imposed vpon any Church are such as may bee concluded necessarily from the written word of God Yet in a true constituted Church some matters meerely Ecclesiasticall may bee imposed through humaine frailty that cannot so bee concluded 2. Though all humaine ordinances vsed onely or specially in Gods worship whervnto they are not necessary of themselues were simply vnlawfull Yet is not every such humaine ordinance of that nature that it maketh the Church and Ministery wher it is vsed to bee a fals Church and Ministery much lesse those Churches and that Ministery wherin it is not vsed but injoined onely 3. Though it were generally graunted of all That every true visible Church of Christ is such a Spirituall body politick as is specially instituted by Christ or his Apostles in the new Testament Yet it will not thence follow That those Churches and Ministeries are not to bee communicated withall that haue any thing in or appertaining to the constitution therof not instituted by Christ or that such Churches are not true visible Churches 4. Though every true visible Church of Christ or ordinary Assemblie of the faithfull hath by Christs ordinance power in it selfe immedialy vnder Christ to elect and ordaine deprive and depose their Ministers and to execute all other Ecclesiasticall Censures Yet will it not follow from thence That all they are fals Churches and not to bee communicated with all That doe not or by the lawes of man are not suffred to vse that power Nether is it sure the meaning of them who offer the Conference To maintaine That they are no true visible Churches of Christ that cannot vse that power but are therein subject to others for one may by Christs ordinance haue a power to doe that which yet in regard of man he hath noe power to doe 5. Though the Pastor of a perticuler congregation should be yealded to bee the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officer in any true constituted visible Church of Christ Yet cā it not hence bee concluded That those Pastors are fals Pastors who are outwardly by mans lawes subjected to a Superior Ecclesiastical officer The Father ordinary is the highest officer in the family yet if the Magistrate subject the father in some matters appertaining to the family to another Though therin it may bee hee may doe the father some wrong yet doth not the father therby become a fals father or the family a fals family Admitte then that this prerogatiue due to Pastors to haue noe Spirituall officers superior vnto them yet is it not so essential vnto him that without the Actuall vse and possession of it hee cannot bee a true Pastor And yet take a true visible Church in that sence which the officers of the conference doe viz. for a perticuler ordinary Assembly or Congregation And then in our owne Churches The Pastor is the higest ther being noe Ecclesiasticall Officer in any such Churches a boue him 6. Graunt this That it is the office of every true Pastor to teach and Governe Spiritually one Congregation immediately vnder Christ Can it from hence bee concluded That they are noe true Pastors which governe more congregations then one or which are subject in some outward things to some others besids Christ 7. Admit That the offices of Provinciall and diocesan Bishops were contrary to the word of God must it needs ther vpon follow That those Ministers and Churches which are vnder them by the lawes of man are fals such especially who obey them onely in things which they judge honest and lawfull and who vnder this subjection doe no more then they would doe if they were not subject at all vnto the Bishops A man must therfore bring a better head wit with him then M. Iohnsons That by the Propositions of the offer of Conference how harsh soeuer they may seeme to bee can conclude it vnlawfull to joine and communicate with our Church Assemblies For the profe of this consequent he bringeth nothing out of our owne writings but onely to giue his reader therby a vomit some of his owne Coleworts not twise but twise twenty times sodden To which wee giue him leaue to looke an Answer from some as idle headded as himselfe THE SIXT ARGVMENT TAKEN OVT OF DIvers Treatises Answered This Proposition being a whol leaf in his booke I forbeare any further anser downe there being in effect little difference in the matter from that which hee hath formerly brought Fr. Ihon. IF the is Assertious bee true That that Church calling for which the Scripture giue noe expresse warrant is meerely vsurped and vtterly vnlawfull That as it is not lawfull to bring in any strange doctrin so is it not lawful to teach the true doctrine vnder the name of any other function then is instituted by God c. But the aforesaid Assertions are true Therfore it is vnlawful to haue communiō with that Ministery Answere This Argument being a collection out of our writers doth not differ from the former as himselfe graunteth and therfore needs noe further Answer The Consequent is fals and hee proues it not by any of our owne writers as hee ought to doe but stil brings vs profes out of his owne musty Aumbry The Assumption therfore borrowed out of our owne writers will doe him noe pleasure THE SEAVENTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE twelue Arguments viz. the tenth EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IT is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church to haue spirituall communion with those Ministers which in their Administratiō of divine things do either by word or deed solemly professe and yeald a spirituall homage to an vsurped spirituall Authoritie in the Church But so do the Ministers of the Church Assemblies of England Ergo It is a sinne to haue communion with the same Answere The Proposition is fals And hath noe ground from that Proposition in the 12. Arguments vnto which hee would match and forth of which hee would draw it The Proposition there is this It is a sinne against Christ the sole head of the Church for any one of his Ministers especially in the administration of divine things either by words or signes
our people but also by the authoritie of the Magistrate who hath an armed power to hinder any such publique Action who is willing also to permitte and maintaine other true Ministers of the Gospel in those places where hee forbiddeth some If therfore after our publique calling to Minister to such a knowne and publique Church but by the Magistrat also The Magistrate shall haue matter against vs whether just or injust it skilleth not and shall in that regard forbid vs to Minister to our Church I see not by what warrant in Gods word wee should thinke our selues bounde not withstanding to exercise our Ministery still Except wee should thinke such a law of Ministery to ly vpon vs that wee should judge our selues bound to run vpon the sword point of the Magistrate or to oppose sword to sworde It being not the vse of the higher powers in such cases nakedly to forbid but to set a sword to the breast therby to force them which shall refuse And suppose the Magistrate should doe it injustly and against the will of the Church and should therin sinne yet doth not the Church in that regard ceas to bee a Church nor ought shee therin to resist the will of the Magistrate Nether doth shee stand bound in regard of her affection to her Minister how great and deserved soever to deprive her selfe of the protection of the Magistrat by leauing her publique standing to follow her Ministery in private and the darke refusing the benefit of all other publique Ministery which with the leaue and liking of the Magistrate shee may injoy Nether doe I knowe what warrant any ordinarie Minister hath by Gods worde in such a Case so to draw any such Church or people to his private Ministery that therby they should hazzard their outward state and quiet in the Common wealth wher they liue when in some competent Measure they may publiquely with the grace and fauours of the Magistrat inioy the ordinarie meanes of their Salvation by another and except hee haue a calling to Minister to some other Church to bee content to live as a private member till it should please God to reconcile the Magistrate vnto him and so call him againe to his owne Church laboring in meane while privately vpon perticuler occasions offred to strengthen and cofirme in the wayes of God those people that are deprived of his publique labours and I take it to bee the dutie of the people in such a case if they will approue themselues faithfull Christians and good Subjects so to submit to the Ministery of another as that by prayer and all other good dutifull and loyall meanes they may doe their best indevour to obtaine him of whom against their will they haue bene deprived and still to affect and loue him as their Pastor Now if the people doe thus then is that Minister called to bee silent not onely by the Magistrate but by them also though with much greife Obj. It is the dutie of all Ministers and Christians as will as Apostles to obey God and not man when man forbiddeth that which God commandeth or commandeth that which God forbiddeth Ans True but God noe wher that I can find commaundeth either a Minister to Minister publiquely in a publique Church maintained by the Magistrate against the will and in despite of the Magistrate noe more then against the will and in despite of the Church it selfe Obj. Vriah at the commaundement of the King made an Alter after the fashion of that of Damascus but therin sinned though hee offred theron such burnt-offrings as God had appointed much lesse may the Ministery vnder the Gospell bee framed after any nue manner devised by man least of all after Antichrist though in that Ministery many doctrines of the Gospell bee taught and such Sacraments administred as God hath ordained Ans This Example of Vriah the Priest is altogether impertinent vnto that which goeth before It being one thing vpon the commaundement of the Magistrate to forbeare the publique exercise of a true Ministery another thing vpon his commaundement to frame a nue Ministery after a nue manner devized by man or Antichrist After this hee runs out of his way againe to satisfie an objection that hee had propounded and indevoured as far as his learning would giue him leaue to answer before And which doth nothing at all depend vpon any thing that goeth before in this Argument wherin hee resembles some wanton Curs that takes delight to turne round about to catch their owne tailes But let vs see what it is hee saith Obj. Here againe concerning such as plead that they teach the truth and many excellent points of Doctrine It is to bee observed that yet none may therfore heare their Ministery vnder Coler of learning the truth because in yealding to receaue and heare it from Antichrists Ministery They defile the Temple of God and become the Subjects of Antichrist pag. 75. Ans Wher hee againe taketh it as matter that must whether wee will or noe bee graunted vnto him That our Ministery is Antichrists Ministery which needs noe other answer then before yet thus much further 1. That noe Ministery whatsoever so far forth as it teacheth the truth of Christ especially a truth opposite to the doctrine of Antichrist is the Ministery of Antichrist And those which shall submit and subject themselues vnto any Ministery whatsoever onely so far forth as they Minister and teach such truth cannot therin bee said to defile the Temple of God or to bee Subjects of Antichrist but bee obedient to Iesus Christ 2. Our Ministery in divers Congregations of the land at the least Teach not onely many excellent points of doctrin But so much doctrine as is sufficient to the Salvation of him that beleeueth the same even all the maine fundamentall points of Salvation clearly set downe in Gods word yea and for ought any can proue to the countrary All other lesse necessary points so far forth as God hath revealed and convinced their consciences of the truth of them 3. Those amongst vs who make conscience of hearing our Ministery doe not heare them vnder a Colour of learning the truth but onely to this very end and purpose that they might learne the truth and therin the true way of serving and worshipping God according to his owne will Obj. And not to speake of the many errors falshoods which they also teach it is no nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in diuers things teach and bring the truth with them for when Sathan cannot by falshood vtter his wares ordinaunces Ministery worship hee will bee glad to vtter the same by teaching the truth pag. 75.76 Ans 1. Our Errors whether for weight or member or qualitie are not such so great so many but they may be fall vnto true Christians whether Ministers or people yea as M. Iohnson well knoweth many of the Martyrs of Iesus Christ haue liued and died in more and greater Errors of the
same kinde and therfore well may hee passe by this point This is but a peece of his simple thetoricke carelesly to seeme to passe by that which hee cannot proue For how many Errors can hee name or number that hee is able to justify to be taught in the Ministery of our Church Assemblies what one truth of Religion can hee name that is not or hath not bene when just occasion hath bene offred taught by some of our Ministers I am not ignorant that in his treatises against M. A. H. and M. H. I. hee mustreth a whole troup of pretended Errors but suppose them to bee so many destinct Errors how doth hee proue they are taught in our Ministery or that they are required by law to bee taught Ther is indeed a Conformitie and Subscription required to some of them and a Canon that requires that the late Canons bee reade in Churches some times in the yeare as also that the booke of Articles bee read at the first entrance vpon an Ecclesiastical Church with a testification of assent vnto it But is this Ministerially to teach the Errors contained in the said bookes May not a man in the weacknesse of his judgement and in infirmitie at his first entrance into a calling conforme and subscribe vnto some things not so warantable and true and yet not teach them for truths yea may hee not for all that teach doctrin in it selfe directly countrary to those vntruths yea and yet satisfie also the minde of the law which being humaine and therfore not alwaies perfect may commaunde that very truth to bee taught which being thorowly followed will destroy some vntruths which the same law also requires Further it is one thing to reade the Canons to the people therby to declare vnto them what is required at their hands by their Governors another thing to teach and justifie the Errors countained in them and to testifie an assent vnto some Errors is not Ministerially to instruct the people in those Errors 2. Though it bee noe nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them Yet this is a nue thing and never hard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the wholl truth of Christ Iesus for the substāce therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and foundamentall doctrins of Antichrist That they should professe him to bee Antichrist and that man of sinne and to the sheeding of their blood should exercise their Ministery against Antichrist and his kingdome protesting against him and his Service were it not nue straunge that a man should bee counted a true Subject vnto a Prince then when hee doth openly protest against him Counting him a vsurping Tirant and imploying all the wit power and strength hee hath against him such subjects of Antichrist are our Ministers or by the lawes such they ought to bee Could hee bee said to bee a Minister of Christ that yealding to some externall kites and professing some doctrines of Christian faith doth not withstanding directly openly and professedly renounce Christ and his Seruice and professe himselfe to bee an enemie to him and his Kingdome If it hould not in the one it is not both a nue and strang thing that it should hould in the other 3. M. Iohnson out of his knowledge must teach vs how Sathan can be said by teaching the truth to vtter his owne Ministery or worship or how a Sathanicall Ministery can be vttered when in and by the Ministery nothing but the truth of Christ is administred what is the Ministery of Sathan but the Ministery of Error how can the Ministery of Error bee vttered by teaching the Truth or how can a Ministery be said to be vttered by a truth when it is the Ministery it selfe that vttereth the truth Surely noe more then a Marchandize can bee said to bee vttered by selling of wares and were it not a wonder if a man should vtter his bad Marchandice by selling good sound wares Sathan and Antichrist indeed together with some truths seeke to vtter much falshoode which otherwise they knowe would not be receaued And many of our Ministers are content to yeald to some things which they judge not so counvenient if it did otherwise some good to the State to the end they may vtter the truth But that like Antichrist and Sathan our Ministers should propound this vnto themselues to teach some truths to this end that they might therby vtter falshood and lies fals Ministeries worships is a Malitious imputation and can never bee justified Obj. Beza saith Though Antichrist teach the truth which sometimes hee doth to the end hee may more easily seduce to beleeue his lies yet wee are to stoppe our eares against him least vnder his pretence wee bee deceaved by him pag. 76. Ans Well but it is yet to proue That our Ministers are Antichrists and that they teach the truth to any such wicked intent the contrary is manifest when many of them in regard of the times are countent to yealde to some colourable vntruths that they might therby purchase libertie vnto themselues to aduance the truth of Christ They yeald to some things in appearance Antichristian that they might with more libertie fight against Antichrist Obj. Who knoweth not that Antichrist and his Ministers are hipocriticall frends to Christ vnder the name of Christ fighting against him Ans But who knoweth not that our Ministers if they bee such as our lawes require them to bee are sworn enemies to Antichrist and in the name of Christ and vnder some of Antichrists owne Rites doe fight against him and resist him vnto blood And who knoweth not that many of them haue died for Christ at the foot of Antichrist THE SIXT ARGVMENT IF the present Ministery of the Church of Englande bee a strange Ministery then is it not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall communion therwith But such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England Therfore it is not lawfull in the worship of God to heare it or haue any Spirituall Communion therwith The Assumption is manifest for a strange Ministery is that which is not by the law ordained and giuen for that worke as themselues here to fore haue published and as is proued in the first Reason Answere This Reason differreth not in substance from divers of the former for what is it to bee a strang Ministery but to be a Ministery that is not set by Christ in his Church which is his 1. Reason But to bee a Ministery which deriveth not the power and function from Christ which is his 4. Reason But to bee a Ministery that worketh vpon mens consciences by virtue of a fals Spirituall calling which is his 5. Reason Might hee not with as greate facility out of this method of reasoning haue brought forth 7000. Reasons as theis seaven But how doth hee proue the Assumption of his reason
from the 12. Arguments And therfore they are noe wise guilty of his schisme nor doe any wayes herein this place patronize the same THE THIRD REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE TWELVE Arguments the London Ministers exceptions and the Abridgement c. EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF such bee the State of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of England as they are bound in their Ministration vnto such things as the vsing of them in Church Service in manner and forme prescribed is a will-worship a giving of specially honour to Antichrist and his members a performing of honours more then Civill even Religions onely to a humaine power a warranting of the like vse of Iewish Turkish Paganish or Popish observations a doing of Scysmaticall Actions an hauing of Spirituall Communion with Papists in the Misteries of their Idolatry and Superstition Amingling of prophane things with divine an vsing of vnlawfull things in divine worship An administring of Sacraments that are not of divine institution A solemne acknowledging of Speciall homage to the Spirituall vsurped authoritie of Lord Bishops an vsing of humaine Traditions in Gods worship as necessary to salvation an apparent meanes of the damnation of many Soules An observing of a lieturgy which in the wholl matter and forms therof is too like vnto the masse booke c. Then is it not lawfull to communicate with the Ministers in their Ministery But such is the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande Therfore it is not lawfull to communicate with them therin Answere M. Iohnson thinks surely that in this Argument hee hath out of our owne writings for ever disgraced our Ministery But whether here or in the Arguments following he deale faithfully with our writers I know not his bad dealing in this kinde wee haue discoured in part before and doth most evidently appeare in one perticuler following wherein hee most shamfully and lewdly as a man void of all common honesty and grace maketh the Ministers of Lincolne to affirme See pag. 98. That the Prelats are reveiled to bee great Antichrists and their Ministery and constitution to bee great troublers of the Church at this day and that it cannot but bee very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them The Devill himselfe would haue bene a shamed in this open manner to haue tould such a ly and therfore hee is to bee trusted no further then hee is seene And herein his lewdnesse is the more to bee suspected That wher hee rehearseth many harsh bitter and vnsauory speaches against our Ministery and worship as written by some of our selues that retaine communion with the Ministery and worship of our Church Assemblies Hee doth not quote the perticuler places but onely refers vs to the Authors in generall as though we had nothing els to doe but to reede ouer wholl bookes to finde out his Allegations or that wee must take them vpon his word to bee faithfully reported But let vs suppose that our men haue so written yet ther is noe consequent in the Proposition For what if our Ministery were bound to say Masse to sing Mattins To worship the Virgin Mary To acknowledge the Popes Supremacie c. yet for all that it might bee lawfull to Communicate with our Ministers in their Ministery Except that in the execution of their Ministery they submitted vnto that which they were bound vnto It being one thing to bee bound and another thing to fulfill the bonde he might contrarily with as much witt and vnderstanding haue reasoned thus If this bee the estate of the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Rome that they are bound in their administration to the renouncing of Antichrist and all his Idolatry offices and will-worship to conforme onely in their Ministery to the Gospell of Iesus Christ and to such or dinances as are agreable to the same then it is lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery and worship M. Iohnson would quickly discerne the inconsequence of this Proposition And why because in the execution of their Ministery they fulfill not this bound And yet hee cannot deny but that they are by a stranger bond even a divine bond bounde vnto this then our Ministers to the contrary The consequent hee saith is proued by the Ministers of Lincolneshire Abridgement pag. 17. But to passe by his depraving of them before touched noe such matter can bee concluded from the words which hee here citeth yea though hee had dealt faith-fully in the citation of them For though it should bee graunted that some act of spirituall fornication should bee donne in our Ministery That wee are to seperate from Idolators and Antichristians and to bee as vnlike them as may bee in their religious observations Though God doe beare a detestation of Idolatry and all the Inticements therof as vnto speciall whoredome Though wee ought to bee a shamed of the monuments of Idolatry and cast them away with detestation Though wee should bee in some danger by them to bee corrupted in Religion by conforming vnto Idolators in their Ministery and worship Though keeping communion with such Ministers should be a speciall meanes to harden them in their sins Though the Prelats were revealed to bee great Antichrists Though the Godly learned haue constantly taught that Christians are bound to forsake and cast of the Ministration Ceremonies and religious customes of Pagan Iewes Antichristian Idolators and Hereticks and carefully to shum all conformity with them therin Yet it doth not therupon follow That if the Ministers of our Church Assemblies bee bound as a foresaid that then it is not lawfull to communicate with them in their Ministery M. Iohnson therfore must bee put to this paines To proue this consequent For further profe of the former consequent he bringeth six Reasons more out of his owne ould and fusty horn of store which proue the consequent just a baculo ad augulum To which it shall bee needlesse to giue aunswer they being profes clean besids the purpose of theis reasons which is to justify their schisme by grounds taken from our owne writings The Consequent then of the Proposition being evidently fals The Assumption though it should haue never so much ground from our owne writings wil stande him in noe stead THE FOVRTH REASON TAKEN OVT OF THE ADMOnitions to the Parlament EXAMINED Fr. Iohn IF the Offices of Arch Bishops Arch Deacons Lord Bishops Suffraces Parsons Vicars c. bee Antichristian and contrary to the Scriptures then the people of God may not communicate with them in their Ministery Ergo The first is true The later also Answere The Consequent is fals and hee goeth not about to proue it by any thing taken out of our owne writings but by a stale profe that hath bene answered before and therfore it requires noe answer onely thus much of free bountie That the offices of Arch Bishops c. quatenes tales are not of the essence of the Ministery of our Church Assemblies but meere Accidents The Assumption
him such a Ministery in sundry of our Church Assemblies of which all theise points may bee truely verified their conformitie to the State and their sinne therin if any bee not withstanding The second Argument The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie Therfore it is a sinne to seperate from the same The consequent must bee true vntill hee can bring forth any other exceptions against our Ministery then such as appertaine to the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is proued thus The Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Antichrist is of Priests and Deacons But the Ministery of our Church Assemblies is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons Therfore it is not the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Proposition is his owne The Assumption if I should follow his learning I might proue thus The Ministery of true Pastors and Teachers is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons But such is the Ministery of our Assemblies Ergo and for the profe of the Assumption I might send him back againe to my first Argument But I wil leaue such a kind of disputing to himself as his owne peculier and proue it otherwise thus That Ministery which in the maine and essentiall faculties offices therof is opposite to the maine and essential faculties functions offices of Priests and Deacons is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons But such is our Ministery Therfore it is not the Ministery of Priests and Deacons The Proposition is vndeniable The Assumption may bee proued thus That Ministery which is opposite to the Sacrafice of the Masse is opposite to the maine and essentiall faculties functions and offices of Priests and Deacons Such is our Ministery Therfore it is opposite to the maine and essentiall faculties of Priests and Deacons I doe not see which of theis Premises hee can with any colourable reason deny I will therfore for beare to proceed further in this Argument vntill I see what hee can say against it The third Argument That Ministery which professing Christ by maintaining his covenant with the seales of it doth directly and professedly warre against the Beast and against all that worship his Image and receave his marke in their forehead and hand cannot without sin bee seperated from Such is our Ministery Therfore it cānot without sin be seperated from The Proposition is true For noe Ministery so professing Christ but the true Ministery of Iesus Christ doth directly and professedly warre in manner forme aforesaide The Assumption I proue thus That Ministery which so professing opposeth it self professedly to the Pope of Rome as that great Antichrist which directly and expresly renounceth all Ecclesiasticall homage vnto him or any of his professed cleargie That denieth and disputeth against most effectually all the maine and foundamentall points of Popery which opposeth it selfe to the vttermost of the strength and Power therof to all the professed frends of the Pope and Church of Rome That houldeth and maintaineth all the members therof to bee hereticks and Idolators and in the state of condemnation and such as no good Christian ought to cōmunicate spiritually withall That Ministery I say doth directly warre against the beast and against al that worship his Image c. But all this is donne in and by our Ministery Therefore it doth directly and professedly warre against the Beast c. I know not which of theis Propositions hee can with any face deny but deny either when hee will I shall bee readie to proue them The fourth Argument That Ministery which deriveth the power and functions therof from Christ cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Ministery of our Church Assemblies deriveth the Power and functions therof from Christ Therfore it cannot without sinne bee seperated from The profes of the maine proposition of this fourth Argument will serue to proue this Proposition The Assumptiō is as sufficiently proued by my third and first Argument as his contrary is by his third and first But I further proue it thus If the Power and functions of our Ministery for the substance therof bee the very same for which Christ ascended vp into Heaven to procure for the edification of his body the Church then doth it for the substance therof derive the Power and functions therof from Christ But the first is true therfore the later is true also The Consequent of the Proprosition is vndeniable The Assumption is as vndeniable Except hee can shew any substantiall difference betweene the one and the other The fift Argument That Ministery which worketh vpon the Consciences of men by a true spirituall calling cannot without sinne bee seperated from Such is our Ministery Therfore it cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Proposition cannot bee gaine said The Assumption is proued by my 2. Argument but I further proue it in this manner That Ministery which worketh vpon the Consciences of men onely by a spirituall gift and grace giuen by Christ and directed by the word of God doth worke vpon the consciences of men by a true Spirituall calling Theis doth the Ministery of our Church Assemblies Therfore it worketh vpō the consciences of men by a true Spirituall calling The truth of either of theis Propositions I shal easily proue if they bee deinde The sixt Argument The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is noe strang Ministery Therfore it is a sinne to seperate from it This Anticedent is better proued by my first Argument then his contrary Assumption is by his first Argument I proue it not withstanding thus That Ministery which for the substance therof was practized by Christ the Apostles many worthy and famous Martyrs and witnesses of Iesus Christ in Church Assemblies is no strange Ministery Such is our Ministery for the substance therof Therfore it is no strange Ministery Surely hee will never deny the Proposition Nether can hee deny the Assumption except he can shew a Substantiall difference between the Ministeries aforesaide The seaventh Argument That Ministery which is from Heauen cannot without sinne bee seperated from The Ministery of our Church Assemblies is from Heaven Therfore it cānot without sinne be seperated frō The Proposition is plaine The Assumption is proued by all the former Arguments which in his logick Scholes in his owne cause is profe good enough But I ad a further profe That Ministery which in all the parts and Power therof is principally excercized and directed to bring men to Heaven is a Ministery from Heaven Such is our Ministery aforesaid Therfore it is from Heaven The Proposition is firme It being not possible that that Ministery which is from Earth or hell should bee principally directed and excercized in all the parts and Powers therof to bring men to Heaven The Assumption may not bee denied except hee can shew in what other thing it is more principally excercized and to what other end directed which hee can never doe AN ANSWER TO CERTAINE DEMANDES OFTEN PVBLISHED by M. Iohnson the
deciding wherof as hee saith will end the controversies between him and vs. The first Demande WHether the Lord Iesus Christ haue by his last will and Testament given vnto and set in his Church sufficient ordinarie officers with their calling worke and maintenance for the administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinarie instruction guidance and service of his Church to the end of the worlde 1 I Answer directly vnderstanding by Officers spirituall officers that hee hath And that it is a Sinne herein to breake his will and testament ether by depriving the Church of any of those officers or by bringing into it any other kinde with any other kinde of calling or worke then hee hath appointed in the same 2. That not withstanding this the Civill Magistrate hath power to set over the Churches of Christ in his Dominions Commissioners and overseers which are not specially appointed by Christ in his Testament civilly to guide gouerne the Churches to maintaine those priviledges liberties offices orders that Christ hath endowed them with all against all the enemies both without and within the same 3. Concerning the maintenaunce of the Ministers Christ hath set downe no more in his Testament then this in effect That the labourer is worthie of his hire And that for their Ministration of Spirituall things the Churches that enjoy their labours ought to Minister to them of their Temporals But after what especiall manner they shall be maintained he hath for ought appeareth yet to the contrary ether left it to the discretion of the Churches if they haue the free disposition of their temporall goods in their owne hand or of the Christian Magistrate who in such cases may see what is fitter then the Churches themselues The second Demande Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those offices appointed by Christ in his Testament before said Or whether the present ecclesiasticall offices of Arch-Bishops Lord-Bishops Suffraganes Deanes Prebendaries Cannons Pettie Cannons Priests Deacons Arch-Deacons Doctors of Divinitie Chaplins or House-Priests Commissaries Officials Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curats Vagrant or Mercenary Preachers Church-wardens Sidemen Clarkes Sextons and the rest now had in the Cathedrall and perishionall Assemblies bee those offices oppointed by Christ in his Testament as is aforesaid or no 1. I graunt that the Offices in the first place mentionned are those very offices which Christ hath appointed that there is no Church of Christ but hath vse and need of them And that such are someway defective that want any one of them 2. That yet not withstanding they may bee true Churches that want some of them yea the chiefest of them as thos Assemblies of our owne profession in England haue for many yeares as I take it bin without ether all or chiefest of them And yet they judge themselues true Churches yea though they haue not so much as the Sacraments administred amongst them 3. Where the Civill Magistrate doth his dutie as hee ought and where the Churches haue the benifit of his help for the suppressing of sinne and the relieving of the poor and those that are in any distres which the Apostolicall Churches wanted there the want of some of theis offices may bee the better borne with all and the Church lesse defective that doth want them especially the two latter 4. I graunt that none of those offices here mentioned in the latter part excepting that of Deacons are in name those offices which Christ hath appointed some of them nether in name nor in deed some in deed though not in name Some haue the name of that which indeed they are not Some though they bee set over the Churches Yet are not indeed any proper offices of the Church Some offices here named nether in deed nor name as they are such are ecclesiastical offices but onely schoole Titles and dignities giuen to men eminent in learning for incouragement of others to study good letters especially divinitie 5. All the offices appointed by Christ to bee in his Church to the end of the world in effect and substance may be found conteined vnder some of theis though somwhat disguised with strange names borrowed from the Church of Rome and the principall most necessary are vnder some of theis For many of theis which you dispitfully cal mercenary Preachers Priests House-Priests yea Parsons Vicars Curats are in very deed and truth in office practice whatsoever they are in name The very Pastors and Teachers that Christ hath ordained ministring in his Churches according to their places and callings And those gifts which Christ had bestowed vpon them al the ordinary meanes of salvation As for theis varitie of names most of them arise from that varitie of maintenance that is in our Churches and not of their spirituall offices So that in this manner to dispute against our Churches because the Ministers therof haue such such names is as though one should dispute against the Church of the Iewes in Christs time and haue denied communion with it asking whether Priests Levites and Prophets were not those officers which God had appointed to governe the Church of the Iewes with all Or whether Scribes Pharisies Saduces Captaines of the Temple Rulers of the Synagogues Doctors of the Law Centurions Souldiers the high-Priests Servants c. were those Officers Or as if one disputing against your owne Churches or those which haue though not so fully as you would haue them interteined the same discipline with you should to warrant their seperation from you their condemnation of you as false Churches move the very same question in nature vnto you Asking you whether Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Helpers be not those Offices which Christ hath appointed in his Testament Or whether Schismaticks Refractaries lay-Aldermen Parish Bishops Consistorians Parish Popes Proctors of spitle houses Dawbers Thackers Tailers Tinkers c. be those Officers for thus it hath pleased some to put theis odious names vpon those which bearre exercise the offices of Pastors Teachers Elders c. The third Demande Whether the callings and entrance into the ecclesiasticall offices aforesaid their administration and maintenance now had and retained in England bee the manner of calling administration and maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the Offices of the Church aboue named or no Not to stand for the avoiding of multiplicity of vnnessarie questions vpon defence of the calling entrance administration and maintenaunce of all I aunswer directly and plainly That the Calling entraunce administration and maintenance of many at the least that are called into ecclesiasticall offices is in very effect and substance the same that Christ hath appointed They are men instructed in the knowledge of good Letters especially in divinitie They haue a gift in some good measure to devide the word of God according to the necessities of the people over whom they are set They haue a desire to do Christ and his Church service in his