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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	church_n	minister_n	ordination_n	2,890	5	10.2282	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85043	The churches and ministery of England, true churches and true ministery. Cleared, and proved, in a sermon / preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe; before a numerous congregation assembled together to hear the opposition, which had been long threatned to be made that day, by Mr Collier and others of his party, who, with the greatest strength the West would afford them, were present at the sermon. Wherein were these five things undeniably proved: 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall saints, is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true church. ... 5. And then, they also must needs be guilty, who forsake true churches and a lawfull ministry, to follow and hear unsent preachers. By Francis Fullwood minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the county of Somerset. Before it there is an epistle and preface, shewing the manner, and a narrative subjoyned shewing the substance of the dispute after the sermon, (both which lasted nine hours.) Set forth by the ministers that were at the dispute, and attested under their hands.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.; Darby, Charls.; Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.	1652 (1652)	Wing F2498; Thomason E671_2; ESTC R202166	72,915	100

if they had said by what authority do or may we preach why do not doubt saies Christ My Father sent me and in his sending me he gave me Authority to send others As he sent me so I say or by that I had power to send you and give you power to send others He sent me to preach and ordain I send you to preach and ordain and do you send others to preach and ordain c. therefore we finde the Apostles executing their Commission accordingly along as occasion requires Paul sends Timothy Titus c. bidding them ordain and so successively to the end of the world which thing is most plain in the Text we are upon with regard to the persons ordaining and ordained Persons ordaining are Prophets and Teachers and persons ordained in this ordinary sending what power receive they they are sent 't is most apparent by an ordinary sending and what to do I pray you why to preach ver 5. and to ordain Elders in every Church c. 13. 23. clearly intimating that Ministers by their very Ordination have power to ordain as well as to preach 4. If a Presbytery have power to ordain then ordinary Ministers have power to ordain for a Presbytery is nothing but a Colledge-combination or company of Presbyters or ordinary Ministers But a Presbytery hath power to ordain for Timothy was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery Object But there were Apostles in these Presbyteries Answ What if this strengthens the Argument if rightly considered for if it was counted an act of the Presbytery when Apostles were there it appears that the Apostles joyning with ordinary Elders acted as Elders and not as Apostles or extraordinary Officers there being Apostles in the Presbytery that doeth ordain and yet Ordination is said to be done by the Presbytery cleerly shews that Ordination is a proper act of an ordinary Presbytery and not of Apostles as so and to make it out of doubt Ordination is defin'd in that text to be the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery But this hands me to another Argument 5. If ordinary Officers had a hand in Ordination in Apostles times much more and safer may they ordain now there are no extraordinary Officers among us The minor implied is already proved and for the consequence I say much more but how so why because à pari the people where there are no Ministers to do their work have power to Ordain by the warrant of necessity then much more ordinary Ministers may now there are none extraordinary left if they as so had a hand in Ordination by the like warrant and law of necessity And now that that confirms me about all doubting touching the Ordination of ordinary Officers is the practice of the primitive Churches next the Apostles and so down along through all ages and Churches to this day without interruption or contradiction unless by a few inconsiderable men as the Seekers are Thus we have shew'd what Gospel Ordination is and in Conclusion whose hands the power of ordaining lies it is a setting men apart with fasting and prayer and laying on of hands by preaching Elders which is indeed in every jot and title of it the very same with the Ordination allow'd and practic'd in the Church of England time out of mind The additional Ceremonies and harsh Oaths are taken away and we now have nothing left but pure Ordination according to the word so that the word doth allow us lawfull Ministers because we have what the word requires to make us so Obj. To say we were ordained by Bishops is not worth the while for still there were ordinary Presbyters joyned with them and they themselves were no more but ordinary Presbyters though they thought themselves more their thought could not add one cubit to their stature whom neither Church nor State did ever declare to be a superior Order to other Presbyters But for this I refer you to Mr Seaman who hath given five Answers to this very Objection every one of which are so sound and solid that they are single and apart from each other abundantly satisfying See 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 85. Object But the great Objection yet remains viz. That we must needs be Antichristian because by a line of succession we descended from Antichrist this indeed is all they have to say against our Ministery Answ There are two knots in the line of succession of the Gospel-Ministery to our times The first is as it passeth the bounds of the Apostles daies and this the Seekers tie but we have already dissolved it The other is in the passage of it from the Church of Rome to the reformed Churches as it lies in this objection Four Arguments to cleer the succession of Ordination made by Brownists Anabaptists c. which I shall now untie I shall touch but four Arguments for I am in hast every of which experience hath proved very effectuall 1. I judge it a truth not to be question'd that there hath been certain Ministers of Christ in the world ever since there were any and more certain it is that there were true Ministers in the Church of Rome when our first Reformers began to think of breaking off from her for there was conversion there else God would not have had a people there and conversion is the work of sent Ministers Rom. 10. 14 15. now can any man in reason think that those that forsook both Rome and her harlotry and obey'd that known command of God and come out from Rome were not the best of the Ministers there and so by consequence the Ministers of Christ if there were any which may not be doubted Yea therefore remarkeable providence did seal to their Ministery immediately upon their leaving Rome being used by God to preach that doctrine and presse that command Come out of her my people and to prevail with a great number to follow their steps and leave the whore And when God by them had drawn his people into the wildernesse he did feed them there by the same Pastors Rev. 12. 6 and 14. which helps me to conclude that as the best of the members leaving Rome were owned by God for the true Church so the first of the Ministers leaving Rome were acknowledged by God for the true Ministery every man abiding in that calling wherein he was called whether members or Ministers 2. Again It is not so much as question'd but that our first reformers had an inward Call and if their outward call be question'd it is no great matter since both we and our adversaries agree in this that in such a strait and a case so extraordinary as that was the people are bound to chuse and call a Minister and theirs is valid no man doubts in such a case and therefore the Call of our first Reformers may not be questioned by our opponents any more untill they leave their Principles since it was confirmed by God and the

her and Popery and come over again to preach the truth for which they were first ordained And lastly and chiefly many that could not turn from the truth in judgement o● practice were known to fly for safety hence to other Churches beyond the Seas where they remain'd in the day of our calamity but when it was once over they returned to us to reduce our Churches to reform our Ministery and did with the gracious assistance of God and the Queen bring us back into the former Channell of Protestant profession wherein we have freely though sometimes fouly runne to this day 7. But as for you it may justly be feared you came by a later and neerer passage from the Church of Rome though under ground First None can doubt but we are as Full of Jesuites Now who love rather to fish in pudled waters where they Our Adversaries may be feared to have to do too much with Jesuits nor their baits may be seen as before these distracted unsetled times when they were capable of gaining lesse and more liable to be discerned by us Secondly and if the Iesuites be busie among us as no doubt they are where and with whom are they likeliest to be with you or us They cannot be thought to be among the Ministers for they are in a setled way and known by all to be the Jesuites sworn enemies Thirdly but your disorders aptnes to receive any opinions indiscretion c. doe indeed invite them to close in with you Fourthly ye take it for certain though poor souls you see it not you have received of late and been used by Jesuites to vent at least twenty errors for the Popes Advantage which with little time and place convenient I could reckon up and one among the rest to the purpose in hand That we are Schismaticks to the Church of Coll. Pulpit-guard Routed Rome and having unlawfully Rent our selves from her we ought to return again unto her Which leads me on to the last Answer to the old Objection against us Because we came by succession from Rome Lastly I Answer Suppose what you will that when we left Rome she was a true or a false Church we have yet a defence invincible though I suppose each one of the former Answers are sufficient satisfaction to men that will take it it is this I never heard or read of any that owned the name of a Christian the Papist excepted but did acknowledge that Luther and the rest of our first Reformers were lawfull Ministers whether their Call was an extraordinary or an ordinarie Call Now if so Had not they power to ordain others The Apostles had no ordinary Call yet they had power as the greater to ordain ordinarie Ministers and to confer an ordinary Call yet they ordained ordinarily and so did Luthrr c. And from thence we have had a succession of a regular ordination to this day and thus though as it is frequently used it wil not hold the distinction of ratione Principii medii touching Ordination is of great use for when our first Reformers ordained others they did not regard Ordination as the Channel of Rome had defiled and defaced it but they fetch the manner of it from the Fountain the Scripture Apostolical Example and Institution and the Doctrine of Ordination as in the Scripture was never toucht though the practice of it in the Popes hands was very corrupt and that their practice is now nothing to us that have reformed from it our Reformers they were lawful Ministers and they reformed abuses in Ordination too according to Scripture and from them successively hath it passed true not altogether pure sometimes to us and what corruptions it received in Bishops days it is reformed from of late also and our Ordination is at this day according to the Word in every thing and therefore to conclude we are as I said true Ministers Thus far then we have proceeded namely to prove the Ministery of England to be of Christ from our adversaries own Principles from the principles of any indifferent men and lastly from the grounds and principles of the Word But from the Word we promised two things First to make it appear that the Ministers in England have whatsoever the Word requires to make them so And this we have largely handled and whatsoever the word requires to manifest them so and this I shall as briefly touch If the Ministry be in question the Scripture gives us two Our Ministrie manifested Rules to know it by by which we are bound to try it before we reject it The first is its fruit By their fruit ye shall know them saith 1. From its Fruit. our Saviour of false Teachers By their fruit that is their Doctrine you shall know them that is whether they be of God which makes it evident that though we cannot clear a succession of persons yet as all that Wright against the Papists hold a succession of Doctrine is enough to evidence the true Ministrie Suppose it be doubted where the Ministrie of Christ is if it be but granted that he hath a Ministerie somewhere in the world it is easily concluded to be where the Doctrine of Christ is preach'd where can it be else This I make a mark when there is just cause of scruple touching the Call of a present Ministrie otherwise the very Ordination it self when known to be lawful is a readier way to prove and clear a lawfull Call Now we that cannot be denyed to have both have two strings that the adverse hand can never break The other is taken from its effects whereby God is pleased 2. It s effect to own his servants and doe his work by them Who is Paul Who Apollos but Ministers by whom you believe would you know who they are observe their work by them you come to believe and then doe not question but they are Ministers why so Because Faith is the gift of God which he doth not usually give but by his Ministers hands Ministers by whom you beleeve as God gave every man for how shall they beleeve on him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear that is so as to beleeve without a Preacher a sent Preacher Whence we conclude that ordinary Conversion wrought by our Ministrie is an infallible mark of the truth of our Ministerie and that we are sent by Christ who do the work of Christ I dare not say but a true and honest Minister may have cause to Note complain That he hath stretched forth his hands all the day long unto disobedient and gain-saying people Yet this I say that he that is so happy in his labours as to convert some and establish more is hereby declared from heaven if questioned before to be both an able and lawful Minister And further he that endeavours to wash a Black-more to reform a people that hate to be reformed and reaps no visible fruit of his labours he wants

and Ordination confer'd as a Rule for the practice of suceeding Churches to the end of the world 2. If we doubt of the meaning of the Text let us weigh and consider its interpretation in the practice of the Primitive Churches afterwards as also of all the Churches of Christ since those daies for the practice of both doth undoubtedly conclude that this was ordinary Ordination but the doubt lies not touching the practice of future Churches for that 's without doubt that all the Records of former Churches since the Apostles mention Nos enim sai h Tarno of the business in hand necessarium existionamus secundum quid nimirum quia citra scandalum omitti hodiè non potest qui tot annos in ecclesiâ ufitatus fuit no other Ordination but this and though this hath much weight in it doubtlesse and nothing lesse then presumption will offer to question the uninterrupted practice of the Churches throughout all ages since the primitive times yet let us consider Was it not so also from the beginning do we reade of any other Ordination in the Primitive Churches but this Did not Paul and Barnabas ordain others in the same manner Act. 14. 23. Did not Paul charge Timothy with the same order the negative command containing an affirmative when he said Lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5 22 and did not the Apostles take the same course in Act. 6 Indeed the Scripture speaks more carelesly of the Ceremonies Note of it in some places taking no notice of one nor in some of another c. though we cannot thence argue they were omitted and all that we can gather from such a non-mentioning of them is this that the Ceremonies seem to be of weaker necessity then the substance of our call which is still most carefully noted and expressed by the holy Ghost in every place that mentions any thing of Ordination by the substance I mean here as before a solemn separating and setting apart by the Church for the work of the Ministery but however unlesse you can shew us some place of Scripture where this way of Ordination by fasting and prayer and laying on of hands is forbidden or where another way or course is appointed and used we may not safely lay aside the old much lesse presume to invent a new alas what harm or danger is there in fasting and praier the most happy Christian means to solemnize and speed an important businesse or in laying on of hands whose three uses in Scripture Gen. 48 14 20 concurre and meet in ordaining Ministers viz. blessing * Num. 8. 12. consecrating and setting apart unto an office So much for the nature of Ordination it self now follows the Persons ordaining consideration of the persons in whose hands the power of ordaining lies Who are either principall according to the Text or ministeriall 1. Principall the holy Ghost The principall person ordaining here is the holy Ghost touching whose act in this businesse the Text affords two expressions the one before the other after the mediate Ordination of the Church the first we have in ver 2. the holy Ghost said separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them Whence we note That an inward or secret call by the holy Ghost is not enough according Observ 1. to the order and rule of the Gospel but requires for the regular making a Minister the formall Ordination of the Church besides Or Whom the holy Ghost doth call to be Ministers he doth hint to the Church to be ordained The second expression that discovers the finger of the holy Ghost here we have immediately after the Churches Ordination ver 3. in ver 4. so they being sent forth by the holy Ghost Whence Those that be ordained according to the Rule by the Church of Christ may be said to be sent by the holy Ghost And when they hed fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them they sent them away and the very next words are v. 4. so they being sent by the holy Ghost 2. The Ministeriall persons sending or ordaining here you 2. Ministeriall ordinary teaching Elders have described in ver 3. Such as ministred to the Lord by office Ministers and nam'd vers 1. 1. From their Offices Certain Prophets and Teachers 2. By their proper names Barnabas Simeon Lucius Manaen and Saul These were ministring these were spoke to by the holy Ghost the rest fasted and prayed and laid on their hands on Barnabas and Saul and sent them away So then the persons ordaining here were Prophets and Teachers which names do signifie their offices and are in this place sy●●nimous as Marlorat judgeth mark then they are not called Apostles to confute the Papist nor yet can they be the body of the people without any Officers to silence the Anabaptists Brownists c. the power of ordaining lies then in the hands of Prophets and Teachers of ordinary teachers as well as of extraordinary Prophets else it would have been said that the Prophets onely laid hands on them yea of Prophets not as such but as they were Teachers the greater ever containing the lesse for as we never finde that it was proper to Prophets as so to ordain so nor as extraordinary Officers onely for then Ordination had ceased with extraordinary Officers which would gratifie the Seeker too much Therefore it is said both Prophets and Teachers to intimate to us that Teachers and ordinary Officers have a stewardly power of Ordination and Prophets as supplying the place and doing the office of ordinary Teachers that are to succeed to the end of the world Eph. 4. Whence the note and Observation is That the power of sending or ordaining Ministers lies in the Observ hands of ordinary Officers as stewards of it not in the hands of Five Arguments to prove the power of Ordaining in the hands of ordinary Officers Apostles only not in the hands of the people ordinarily for which I shall but name five Arguments two of which I hinted in the clearing of the Text. 1. If the power of ordaining had lain in the hands of extrordinary Officers only there had been no way left for the perpetuation of a Gospel-Ministery which Christ hath resolv'd to continue in the world to the end thereof 2. If Teachers had power to ordain then ordinary Officers had power to ordain for Teaches were ordinary Officers Eph. 4. But Teachers we see in the Text had power to ordain Ergò 3. If men by vertue and with and in their own Ordination receive power to ordain then ordinary Ministers have power to ordain for they are ordain'd But men by vertue and in and with their own Ordination receive power and authority to ordain others as appears abundantly As my Father sent me so send I you saith Christ this seems to be spoken in answer to secret Objections which the Apostles made against their call to preach the Gospel as

also the door of the Church for persons though really converted by the preaching of the Gospel and the Children of Beleevers born in the Church are not though virtuall actuall members of the visible Church before Baptism which seems to be built upon the known Text Go disciple all Nations baptizing them that is disciple not by teaching only not by teaching properly but by baptism the participle using to signifie the manner of doing Go disciple but how must we disciple why as before by circumeising so now by baptizing and in this Commission in Matthew to the Apostles the Commission given to our Father Abraham is but enlarged 't is the same * The Sacraments of the Jewish Church in substance were one and the same with our Sacraments Heb. 13. 8. 1 Cor. 10. 1 2 3. Joh. 8. 56. Joh. 6. 50 51. Col. 1. 11 12. 1 Cor. 5. 7. all say this except Papists Anabaptists Arminians and Socinians for substance though it differ in circumstance the work is the same to disciple and make up Churches though the matter is larger Abraham chiefly that one Nation to come out of his loines together with all that would joyn as proselytes and the Gospel Ministers must disciple all nations i. so far as they can and the nation will submit unto them Abraham was commanded to disciple by that initiating ordinance of Circumcision and the Gospel Ministers by this of Baptism indeed there is teaching prerequisite to prepare and fit men out of the Church for the ordinance of Baptism and so much was requisite to make men proselytes for Circumcision which thing makes it cleer that not only Abrahams naturall seed had right to this Ordinance or that his seed were circumcised as his seed but as they were capable of being members of the visible Church and therefore we finde that when heathen people were willing to become members of the Church they had the Ordinance of initiation Circumcision to enter them in and not them only but their children also which is a cleer pattern for the Ministers of the Gospel towards the Gentiles How shall we behave our selves to them why we have commission to disciple them But how why as the Ministers of Law did proselytes Gentiles before us by Circumcision so must we now by Baptism but whom among them why as they before us the prosely to Gentiles and their children too so must we also disciple by baptism the nations of the Gentiles and their children too so far as they submit themselves and their children to the Ordinance of Christ But I must return Baptism wee see is the door of the Church which further appears by Joh. 3. 5. Except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God this Kingdom of God I conceive to be the Church for Christ is telling Nicodemus here of earthly things and you may conceive the Church invisible or visible if invisible here is a door to let you in the baptism of the spirit and regeneration reall if visible here is another door for that too the baptism of water a regeneration visible a man may be born again i become a new man two waies and accordingly may have place in the Church two waies he may be born again indeed by a reall work of the spirit within and thus becomes a member of the invisible Church or else a man may be born again in shew only from a visible member of the world and the divel discipled by baptism and made thereby a visible member of Christ and entered into the visible Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church which indeed is sometimes first according to the order of the words except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the visible or invisible Church the Kingdom of Heaven Now to end with this it cannot be denied upon a good ground but we in England are a discipled nation and are entered into the Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church being born again by water Neither have we the seal only for we have the writings 2. And word of it Church is built upon the foundation of Apostles and Prophets too not only a pledg or token of the bargain but the word of the Covenant also the Scriptures in purity and the Ordinances of them in power and fullness which is undeniable and therefore we have the Covenant Deut. 4. 13. Heb. 9. 4. also above all reasonable contradiction and therefore we are the Churches of God for full satisfaction To * Rom. 9. 4. the Jews belonged the Adoption glory and Covenants but how does it appear because to them belonged the giving of the Law and the service of God And what advantage had the Jew by being a Church above the Gentile that was none why much every way but chiefly because to them were committed * Rom. 3. 1 2. The walls of the Church have their foundation in the Names i doctrine of the twelve Apostles and is therefore the pillar and ground of truth Rev. 21. 14. the Oracles of God shewing that they were a peculiar priviledge to and a distinguishing character of the visible Church for God sheweth his word unto Jacob his Statutes and judgements unto Israel and hath not dealt so with any nation that is among the heathen that have no Church Psal 147. 19 20. compared with Cant. 1. 7 other nations doubtless might have the Bible among them as we at this day have the Turkish Alcoron but here lay the difference God did not shew promulge or preach his word to them it was not with them as the Oracles of God the word of the Covenant to them Gospel Ordinances are a great part of the outward administration Ubi est fides illic est Ecclesia ubi non est fides ibi non est ecclesia Chryso of Gospel Covenant where God is pleased to hold a visible communion with us and we with him as before and so long as we have these we are no doubt in covenant with God and then a Church of God And to make all sure we have the peculiar blessings of the 3. And the blessings of it covenant which God bestows on none but such as are in covenant with him his own Churches These are chiefly three the blessing of his spirit of his providence and of his people the first is inward the two later outward but all spirituall and all speciall and peculiar blessings but of them in order The first and inward blessing of the Covenant is the blessing 1. Conversion I mean not only the common convictions enlightenings with the knowledge of the Gospel which is indeed peculiar to the Church however but the speciall blessings of the Spirit of God accompanying his word for the work of conversion in the hearts of our hearers This I make an infallible Mark of the truth of our Churches Conversion ordinarily wrought in our Churches Conversion may be

extraordinarily wrought by discourse what 's that we speak of a usuall and ordinary work and 't is vainer to say we convert from sinne to duty and not to God this is against charity sense and reason first against charity to damn all those that have no other grace then what was received from the hand of our Ministery against sense for bloudy experience hath proved that faith to be true that was wrought by our Ministery in its subjects martyrdome and lastly against reason yea I may say all Scripture too as if duty was not in subordination to God However you cannot over throw the Scriputre which faith Faith comes by hearing and that by the Word of God preacht by a sent Minister which is usually fixt in a Church whence hath been written and sealed by all ages without contradiction that good rule Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus no ordinary salvation and therefore no conversion is usually had out of the Church which clearly concludes those Churches true where it is so The second outward blessing peculiar to a Church in 2. Speciall Providence Covenant with God is his speciall Providence for God hath doubtlesse a different care and providence over his garden the Church and the common wildernesse of the world now all his dealings with us since reform'd and separate from the Church of Rome hath plainly manifested his speciall gardencare and providence over us who can deny it not the Papists themselves who have seen and felt such signall testimonies of it in 88. powder-Treason c. Hath God long agone cast us off as Antichristian Churches and yet all the while still so remarkably kept us from the slavery of Antichrist what an insufferable contradiction is this nay more consider his Providences towards us of late years how long hath there been workings and stirrings in the bowels of this Land for a further reformation and distance from Rome and how much in order thereunto of late hath God wrought for us and all the while that we have been cleansing in the fire of affliction what wonderfull power and goodnesse hath he shewn us and is this the way that God useth to walk with a people divorc'd and cast away who can lift up his face against heaven and say it no rather such a manner of neglecting the Apostle speaks of if they be filthy let them be filthy still and if they be Antichristian let them be so still If not a giving them over to strong delusions to beleeve lyes The third and last blessing of the Covenant is outward 3. Salutation of all Churches too viz. the blessing of the people and Churches of God this I take to be a peculiar Church-blessing and sufficient to signifie a people in Covenant with and a Church of God which blessed be God we have in abundance who have the salutation of all the Churches which the Apostle sets down as matter of comfort for us Rom. 16. 16. Consider now Have not the Churches the keys of the Kingdom and power on earth to loose us from all those black aspersions you cast upon us have spirits judgement to try the spirits and not Churches judgement to try the Churches Shall he be counted a Publican and Heathen that sleights the judgement of a particular Church and not he much more that sleights the commendation of all the Churches Consider what you do beloved and lift not up so bold a face and voice against the verdict of all the reformed Churches in the world but if you will remember what was said You engage against the hand of remarkable Providence and have just cause to fear some strange judgement will fall from heaven to stop your mouths also as it hath other of our enemies before you CAP. IIII. That the Ministery of the Churches of England are the Ministery of Christ ARe our Churches Churches of God and true Churches Conclus 3. then hence it further follows that we conclude The Ministery of our Churches is the Ministery of God and the true Ministery for where can we think or imagin the Ministery of God the true Ministery should be but where the Churches of God the true Churches are and now had we nothing else to commend us unto you unless you recede from your own principles you cannot deny us a lawfull Ministery who have call and allowance from true Churches But I shall a little enlarge my Argument which shall yet be but one though of many parts and prove our Ministery thus unto you The Ministers of our Churches in England must needs be the The Arg. in generall to prove our Ministery lawful Ministers of Christ because they have as much to make and manifest them so to be as their very Adversaries themselves either have or allow and pretend unto and over and above what ever else their adversaries want and any other reasonable men may require more together lastly with what the very Scripture it self doth require or hath set and left as a canon or rule for the making and discovering the lawfull Gospel-Ministery by For the making good hereof I am to clear three things The parts of the Argument 1. That our Ministers have that to make and manifest them true Ministers that is agreeable to the principles of their very adversaries and this being found will easily carry us above contradiction 2. To the principles of all other indifferent men 3. To the principles and rules of the Word of God which two last being cleared and proved may serve I think for full satisfaction SECT I. First then let us see what these busie men have or rather would have that deny our Ministery and proclaim themselves 1. From principles of our adversaries to our people as the only lawfull Ministery in their publike preaching let us examine the manner and these men a little and we shall see their boasting vain for they have no more in pretence then we have really they acknowledge they have and plead for no more to give them a call then themselves acknowledge many of us have there is doubtlesse very much in this let us search it a little There are but four things left since the men for shame have laid down their claim and pretence to a call immediate Who lay claim to four things and extraordinary that all of their party together professe to have any influence upon their call and we shall finde them all four agreeing with us though scarce any of them lay claim to them all onely some of them to one and some to another 2. Of them are inward a secret impulse and gifts The other two are outward and are the choice and desire of the people Some of them say truth is like a fire in them they cannot hold sire in their breasts and not be burnt it will have vent 1. An inward impulse it burns in their bowels inflames their tongues they must declare what things they have heard and seen O brave is this your

due time administer'd to you in a true Much lesse Ministers Church by a lawfull Minister for the bare repeating of it by one that is neither a Minister nor member of the true Church O which way can you then become true Ministers or be allowed so to be by any lawful Church out this should seem to be according to your principles which is so agreeable to many of your practices I mean to be Preachers before you are Christians there are two fellows within our knowledge here within a few miles of this place that were publike preachers and one of them to my knowledge hath taken a Church a Parish a Pulpit upon him for a long time and yet were not rebaptiz'd though long before against Infant-baptism till about a moneth ago I do not affect to relate such stories but the passage was so full to my present purpose though so gross and ridiculous I could not hansomely leave it out Then no wonder if all Christian Churches and Christian Councils renounce and condemn such unworthy preachers as you are while we have the commendation allowance and liking of all the reformed Churches in the world and may commend our selves to you and to all people else without vainglory as judged worthy by the spirits of the Prophets whom all the Churches of Christ salute a thing not sleighted by modest men A third particular that men may justly look for in the Ministers 3. A being fixed and setled in the Church 1. In place of the Gospel is that they be fixt and setled and this may commend the Ministers of England above their opposers who are not fixt either with regard to place or time 1. With regard to place we are fixed stars in the hand of Christ having our station and place in the body of the Church every one knowing his particular people and flock over which he is made an over seer while since the Apostolicall times such a steering Ministery was never known in a setled Church not under persecution that could make a lawfull president for our wandering Comets these itinerary ubiquitarian opposers of ours Indeed a setled Church of Christ may sometimes appoint Note some able men whom with safety and prudence they may to preach the Gospel among the heathens or upon some notable exigence and want of Ministers in a true Church that might bear the name and perform the Office of Itinerary Ministers yet in such an extraordinary case as this these men should be sent by the Church and have their bounds and limits too But our Itineraries are without all order bounds and calling but what they allow to themselves and never remember themselves to be in a constituted Church wherein indeed though the labourers be few yet is there no such extraordinary need of such preachers as they 2. We are fit in regard of time while they in all ages that 2. Of time have known such men have risen and fallen risen and fallen risen and fallen like the proud inconstant waves of the sea in a storm raving raging roaring and dashing against the rock the Church the fixt and abiding foundation of our house untill they dashed themselves to pieces fiaming out their own shame and fretting and chasing themselves away into ayr and nothing while the Church of Christ and the setled Ministery hath stood as mount Sion that cannot be moved throughout both storms and ages The Scripture doth more then allude to the difference in hand describing them thus false prophess shall arise 1 Cor. 12. 28. but the lawfull Ministers of the Gospel thus He hath set them in the Church 1. False prophets shall arise i. actively arise Acts 3. 1 Joh. 4. 1. of their own accord raising up themselves while the true ones are passive such as the Lord God shall raise upto us Like to this is that other expression there are many false prophets gone out of their own accord running before they are sent while the true ones stay for Commission and mission for how shall they preach except they be sent yea and thrust out too sometimes 2. False prophets shall arise i. from beneath while the true ones with Paul have their call from Heaven and come down from above as Eliah's mantle and the gifts and blessings of Christs Ascension 3. False prophets shall arise i. of a sudden and unexpectedly while the true ones God hath set i. fixt posuit hath placed in the Church to the end they Eph. 4. Mat. 28. 20. may abide by the blessing of his presence and fellowship with them to the end of the World Now let it be supposed that the scale is even in other respects yet doubtless there 's something of weight in this in the balance of reason indifferently carried for who doth not value staid constancy before uncertainty upstart novelty may please the vulgar while the old and standing truth will onely satisfie solid men The fourth and last particular thing I shall mention here that men may expect in the Preachers of the Word in a Christian Allowance and order from a Christian Magistrate Common-wealth is allowance and order from the Christian Magistrate Which we have and you have not you know well enough that the Laws of the Land and two Ordinances of Parliament never yet repealed are against you so that the disorderly practice of publick preaching by men unsent is is a breach of the Laws of the Land which is manifest sin by the Word of God unlesse the same word doth command you to do what the Magistrate forbids which I am sure you cannot and think you dare not offer to prove but as for us the setled Ministery of Christ in England 't is known to the world we are own'd and authoriz'd by the Christian Magistrate which is more my brethren for the clearing of our call in a Christian Common-wealth then you imagine yea that something is necessarily to be done by the Christian Magistrate for the full and regular Ordination of Ministers is jointly agreed on both by Calvenists and Lutherans Pralatians Presbyterians and Ames the head of the Congregationall way and certainly such as deny it are in this particular no good friends to Ministers or Magistrates to make such a distance betwixt them * Caution The particulars of a Ministers regular call but take heed I say not the power of ordaining is held by them or by us to lie in the Magistrates hands yet they and we say that in a Christian Common-wealth something belongs to the Magistrate to do in order thereunto the Lutherans whom you applaud so much for the making of a full and regular ordination Place some-what in the hands of all the three Orders Classes or Estates as they term them viz. the Ministery Magistracy and people Cura etiam us omuia speaking of the Ministers call rectè siant pertinet ac Magistratum Ames de consu lib. 4. cap. 25. num 27. and to the Ministery they give

examination ordination and inauguration to the Magistrate nomination presentation confirmation to the people consent suffrage approving or as circumstances may require postulation Not willing to give all to the Minister with Papists to the Magistrate with Erastians or to the people with Libertines Anabaptists Brownists c. and to the purpose Amesius speaks who goes as far in this as we desire for the care that all things saith he touching ordination of Ministers he means be done rightly belongs to the Magistrate whose care and power doth contribute to us and disown you 'T is but vain to say that this is to fetch our power from the earth for we rather look on the favour of Magistrates and their assistance as a plain performance of that Gospel-promise Isa 49. 23. And Kings shall be thy nursing Fathers and their Queens thy nursing Mothers which I know not how can come better to passe then by their providing the sincere milk of the Word for us Now thus far we are come having stept beyond you four degrees into the approbation of indifferent men we are found to have for our wartant in preaching what you have or allow and over and above what may well be required by any other men yet one thing remains of greater concernment then all the rest for further yet we excell you in this that we have besides what the Word requires either to make or manifest us true Ministers the sum of the following Section SECT III. And we are not allowed true Ministers only by our adversaries We have what the Word requires principles by our own Congregations by all the Reformed Churches in the world and by a Christian Magistracy as hath largely been shewed but by the Word of God besides we having whatever the Word requires to make us Ministers or to evidence us such 1. To make us Ministers We have first whatsoever the Word requires to make us Ministers viz. Ordination according to the Word of God now The nature of Ordination that this may appear I shall briefly unfold the nature of Gospel-ordination of Ministers and for that end I pitch on and desire you to turn to that of Act. 13. 1 2 3. where we shall learn two things 1. What the nature of Ordination is 2. In whose hands the power of ordaining lies 2. Ordination is described here with respect to its substance and so it is a separating v. 2. or a sending v. 3. as also with respect to its Ceremonies v. 3. which are fasting and prayer and laying on of hands Now from both these we have this Rule That ordinary Gospel-ordaining of Ministers is a sacred separating and setting them apart for the work of the Ministery which ought to be solemniz'd and distinctly signified by fasting and prayer and laying on of hands Concerning which I lay down these rules 1. This Ordination is more or lesse necessary the more or lesse Rules touching the necessity of Ordination the means thereof may be had 2. Therefore it is not simply necessary or with a necessity of means as if in no case a man might be made a Minister without it 3. Yet it is necessary secundum quid by Apostolicall instruction 4. Whole Ordination is of necessity required in a constituted Church on the Ordainers part not on the part of the person ordained I mean though God requires they observe his rule in ordaining yet the omission of some circumstances doth not null the substance of any ordination had without them upon this Rule * M. Seaman In talibus non est aliquid iterandum saith a Canon of the Papists themselves Note Because Calvinists and Lutherans place so much in a Christian Magistrate the edification of the Church is so necessary that it must be endeavoured as providence makes way and I had rather have the substance only viz. a setting apart by lawfull Ministers authoriz'd thereto by the Civill Magistrate without the other convenient ceremonies then to have full Ordination both substance and ceremonies from men not allowed by publike Authority 5. We must then distinguish betwixt the substance and ceremonies of Ordination and then we say that the substance which I take to be neer the same with vocation is far more necessary then the circumstance of fasting and prayer and imposition of hands 6. The substance of Ordination is absolutely necessary to make a Minister a lawfull Pastor to any particular flock though not so to licence a mans teaching to heathens out of a Church for suppose the highest case a company of Christians are cast upon the shore among heathens and there is no returning for them to the true Church again one of these may be made Pastor and overseer to the Church none doubt but how it must be by the calling of the rest whereby they separate him for the work which is the substance of Ordination and without the same no man among them may take that honour unto himself All these ceremonies of Ordination are to be gladly received The necessity of imposition of hands in some respects either for orders sake or to avoid scandal is acknowledged by these Protestant Divines who make least account of laying on of hands M. Seaman p. 74. Note Our Ordination is such as the word holds out when they may be had and readily submitted to not as the practice but the plain institution of the blessed Apostles and that that therefore will render a mans call into the Ministery most clear from scandall or any touch of offence These Rules I doubt not to lay before you as the conclusions of Protestant Divines and very much favoured by holy Scripture which would easily appear should I not exceed the bounds of a Sermon Now as these do keep the middle way 'twixt Papists upholding the absolute necessity of Ordination in all cases and Socinians and Anabaptists that deny it to be any way necessary at all so do they allow and maintain the lawfullnesse of out Ordination and calling to the Word of the Ministery both now and heretofore in the Church of England being no other but what is most clearly and evidently gathered from the Text before us this Act. 13. 2 3. with many other places Object But how shall we know that the way of ordaining in the text is the ordinary way for the Churches of Christ to walk in since the persons ordained seem to us to be extraordinary men Barnabas and Paul Answ That very thing proves it for if both these men had a call extraordinary before this their call then must needs be ordinary The Ordination of Barnabas and Paul was ordinary which is more plain too if we consider the work is the work of ordinary Ministers hereunto they are called viz. to preach ver 5. and to ordain others cap. 14. 23. they having an extraordinary call before that need not be repeated but they being to be sent about the work of ordinary Officers they have therefore moreover an ordinary call

not unto the words of the Prophets that prophesie Jer. 23. 16. with 21. to you they make you vain And why I have not sent these Prophets yet they ran I have not spoken to them yet they prophesied A Brief Narration of the heads of that long yet happy Discourse betwixt M. Fullwood assisted sometimes with M. Wood M. Howe c. and M. Collier with the strength of his party in the West upon May 4. 1652. at Wiviliscombe commonly known by the name of Wilscome in Somerset-shire M. FVLLWOOD whose turn it was to preach there that day having ended the Sermon which precedes this Narrative the Adverso party flockt together as neer as they could to the Pulpit and M. Collier in the Name of the rest declared himself unsatisfied touching what had been delivered We desired them to have a little more patience and to attend the stating of the question touching the Ministery which M. How had on purpose provided for our Discourse that day in private they replied again that there was more matter in the Sermon delivered then we should be able to discusse that day they would not yeeld to the motion of the stating the question but with a kinde of violent importunity urg'd that the Minister that had preacht would maintain his doctrine to which at length we yeelded and bid them object having chosen Moderators M. Wood on ours and a Captain on their part Coll. M. Collier began to this purpose I shall go through the Sermon in order the first point was That openly scandalous and prophane persons with true beleevers were not inconsistent with a true Church but this I shall not meddle with Full. I thank you for that Sir yet if you have any thing against it I pray you say on Coll. No I will let that passe and come unto the second which was That the Churches of England are true Churches which I have four things to except against 1. That their constitution was false 2. Their members are false 3. Their Ordinances are false 4. Their Ministery is false Full. I deny them all and first I deny our constitution to be false and would have you prove it Col. You were falsly constituted in Q. Eizabeths daies for you were made true Churches by the civill power the command of the Queen and not by the Ministry of the Word as you should have been Full. That is denied for we were not reclaim'd from Popery by the Queens command without but with the assistance of the godly Protestant Ministery as History makes to appear and you cannot deny Coll. But did not the people turn for fear of the power of the Magistrate and I hope you will not say that the Cavaliers are good Subjects and truly converted to the Parliament because they out of fear subscribe the Engagement Full. To say that all did turn for fear is but a slander and cannot be proved but however I had thought you had spoken all the while of a visible Church do you require reall faith to constitute a visible Church I say that the outward subjection of the Cavaliers is enough to make them visible subjects and the outward profession of Christ is enough to render men externall members of the visible Church * M. Thomas Gorges a very worthy godly and learned Gentleman and Justice of Peace in the County Besides the renoun●ing of Popery and embracing the Protestant Religion was a voluntary act of the whole Land in their Representative the Parliament that sate in the first year of Q. Elizabeths Reign Full. M. Collier hearken to the Gentleman he is a States-man and knows what belongs to History better then you or I. Coll. But you should have been constituted by the Ministery of the Word Full. I have told you we were there were three special acts of grace seen in our conversion from Popery the first was upon the heart of the Queen inclining her Majesty to propagate the true and Protestant Religion the second was in inclining the people to be some what wrought on by the command and influence of the good Queen the last now was seen in making effectuall and perfecting the former by the Protestant Ministry ● Several Protestant Ministers of England before Q. Maries daies fled in the time of persecution and returned in the beginning of Elizabeths reign and preaching all over England reclaim'd the people from Popery With this they seemed to acquiesce urging their great objection no more at all which may hint unto us that the most ready and surest way to foil such adversaries is by dealing with them in their own principles which was M. Fullwoods effectuall course throughout namely to give them what they desire by way of medium and then to wrest the weapon out of their hand or to soil them in their own play thus it was here supposing as they would though they can never prove that our Churches were constituted in Q. Elizabeths time who were indeed reclaimed then but constituted Centuries of years before and that there was no other means to bring a people to outward profession which fouly crosseth their own principles as appeareth afterwards or that the Civill Magistrate is to have no hand in the reformation of a Church which though supposed may not be granted or that to conclude that we cannot be a true Church unlesse we know the means and manner of its constitution which is indeed absurd if the essentiall marks of a true Church can be demonstrated as was in our Churches in the morning Yet with all these one of which they cannot possibly maintain they could not wield their objection the very medium it self viz. that we were not converted or reclaim'd by the Ministery of the Word being flatly false Then they broke off somewhat abruptly from this to Infant-Baptism and being there was nothing objected by any of them afterwards against the two next particulars Our Members and Ordinances we suppose their Discourse of Infant-Baptism was in stead of them Coll. Infant-Baptism is unlawfull Full. Why should we step so large What is Infant-Baptism to the businesse in hand however take your liberty and prove Infant-Baptism if you can to be unlawfull as you say it is Coll. That that hath neither precept nor president in the word is unlawfull but Infant-Baptism hath neither c. therefore it is unlawfull Full. I deny both your Propositions For the first I say it is not unlawfull to go to Taunton and yet you cannot shew me a precept or president in the Word for it Hadridge But M. Fullwood do not you know we speak of Ordinances Full. However M. Hadridge the Proposition is false and deserves correction But to come as near as you would have me I pray tell me what you mean by Precept here whether an expresse command or such a command as fals from the Word by just consequence if you require an expresse command in so many words though I grant that requisite to the substance of an