whether they stand not therefore excommunicate not to bee restored untill they repent and publickly revoke such their wicked rerors the Censure of the Canon But I proceed from Ordination to Execution of Priesthood from the Originall denied unto the Ministeriall part rejected also by them and so I shall have done with them CHAP. XXXV Touching power of Priesthood to forgive Sinnes Priests have power to forgive sins not originally but ministerially The Doctrine of the Ordination and Communion Book for publick and private Absolution The Informers to lose the profits of their livings and to be imprisoned without baile for declaring against it INFORMERS THis is the Doctrine saith hee of our Communion-Booke and the practice of our Church accordingly that Priests have power not only to pronounce but to give Remission of sinnes CHAP. XI Pag. 78. 79. MOUNTAGU FIRST be pleased whosoever shalt view or reade this Apologie to take the true state and Tenent in the point informed against by these Promoters It was imposed by the Gagger as a doctrine authorised in our Church None but GOD can forgive sinnes or retaine them It was answered by me that in some sense it was true None else can doe it viz. by authority and right originall because all sinne is properly committed against GOD Tibi soli peccavi and that in some sense also it was not true For by delegation others also might doe it ministerially GOD doth forgive them by the ministery of men The Priest to doe this hath power conferred upon him by GOD in as ample sort as he or any man can receive it And that this was indeed the doctrine of our Church I proved by the witnesse of an enemy and therefore the stronger producing the verdict of a Papist who confesseth that Protestants hold that Priests have power not only to pronounce but to give remission of sinnes Which seemeth to bee the doctrine of the COMMUNION BOOKE in the visitation of the fick where the PRIEST saith AND BY HIS AUTHORITY COMMITTED UNTO MEE I ABSOLVE THEE FROM ALL THY SINNES This is my relation hitherto of what I finde So that heer is committed crimen falsi by these Informers I relate what one of that Side saith I say it not my selfe but only recognize the truth of his relation which I could not deny For in the visitation of the sick in the Communion-Booke the doctrine and practice is as hee relateth it So that were it not justifiable which is heere reported these honest faithfull Brethren had put a trick upon mee namely an Assertion for a bare Relation as if I had justified what I doe but report But it is justifiable it is the doctrine and practice of the Church of England The Bishop of Meath was of that opinion Pag. 109. against a Iesuites challenge HE hath done us open wrong in charging us to deny that PRIESTS HAVE POWER TO FORGIVE SINS And hee giveth a reason irrefragable Whereas the very formall words which our Church requireth to be used in the Ordination of a Minister are these WHOSE SINNES THOU DOST FORGIVE THEY ARE FORGIVEN AND WHOSE SINNES THOU DOST RETAINE THEY ARE RETAINED The execution of which authority accordingly is put in practice in the Visitation of the sick And no man can say more or come more fully home unto Popery in this point than Bishop MORTON in his Appeale Pag. 270. And indeed the POWER OF ABSOLUTION whether it be GENERALL or PARTICULAR whether in PUBLIKE or in PRIVATE it is professed in OUR CHURCH where both in our PUBLIKE SERVICE is proclaimed pardon and Absolution upon all penitents and a PRIVATE applying of PARTICULAR ABSOLUTION unto Penitents by the office of the MINISTER And greater power than this no man hath received from GOD. In as much then as these Informers declare and speake against some part of the Communion-Booke in the Visitation of the sick for Absolution in remission of sinnes and that they stand convicted thereof per evidentiam facti by statute of 1. of Elizab they are to lose the profits of all their spirituall promotions and benefices for one yeare unto the KING and without baile or maineprise to suffer imprisonment for halfe a yeare If they are not beneficed their indurance is the longer the punishment alotted is one whole yeares imprisonment which it were not amisse that Authority would deservedly inflict upon them to teach them better manners heereafter than to call that a point of Popery which is apparant and confessed to be the expresse and avowed doctrine and discipline of the Church confirmed for performance by Act of Parliament I leave the censure of their deserts unto Authoritie whom it toucheth and proceede to the next Information upon the same point though with some addition CHAP. XXXVI Priests onely and none other have commission from CHRIST to forgive sinnes The extravagancies of Puritans and Papists both in this point INFORMERS ANd a little after It is consessed that all Priests and none but Priests have power to forgive Sinnes CHAP. XII Pag. 83. MOUNTAGU ANd is it not so confessed when by publick warrant in Ordination that power is given unto all Priests to do so in those solemne words of Ordination WHOSE SINS YOU FORGIVE THEY ARE FORGIVEN and unto none but Priests because none have else such Ordination If this bee not confessed I will put my selfe to you to school to learne and to know what is confessed The fact is apparant you cannot say nay haply you will nay certainly you do question Quo jure quà m rectè it is confessed The truth is you cannot deny the thing But with you Puritans this doctrine and practice of the Church is held to be Popery And heer you inferre necessarily that Priests have no more power to doe this than Lay-men have For what else can you mean by And none but Priests but eyther that neyther one nor other have that power or else that one as much and as great as other To which you incline I cannot say assuredly No great difference for both are exact Puritanisine you cast Confession upon both one and other Any Lay-man may heare it as well as a Priest and therefore it is probable you will not be very precise for Absolution to conferre it on a Lay-man as well as on a Priest So the power of the keyes are to both alike in equall assise But Sirs Absolution is a part of that Priestly power which could not be given by Men or Angels but onely and immediately by Almighty GOD himself a part of that paramount power which the GOD of glory hath invested mortall men withall In which respect and not otherwise as some claime it hath beene said The head of the EMPEROR hath been subjected unto the PRIEST'S hands In which regard no earthly power is of equall value and assise unto it as not onely the ANCIENTS you shall have a Catalogue of them if you desire it but Bishop MORTON confesseth None can arrogate this power and authority unto himself none
when they leave matter and take offence at words The antiquity of Altars A Sacrifice representative and spirituall acknowledged by all The Author herein farther from Popery than the Informers from Puritanisme CHAP. XXX A reall presence maintained by us The difference betwixt us and Popish Writers is only about the modus the maner of CHRIST'S presence in the blessed sacrament Agreement likely to be made but for the factious and unquiet spirits on both sides Beati pacifici CHAP. XXXI The Author's acknowledgement of his error Consecration of the elements causeth a change yet inferrs no Popish Transubstantiation The Informers out of their element Antiquity maintained Figurists and Novellers condemned CHAP. XXXII Touching CONFESSION Information against the expresse direction and practice of the Church of England No new Popish custome but the ancient and pious manner of Confession for the helpe and furtherance of mens true repentance and for the continuing of them in amendment of life is may be and ought to be urged How Confession of sinnes to a Priest is required by the Church before the Receiving of the LORDS Supper CHAP. XXXIII Touching the Sacrament of ORDERS The new religion full of exceptions though but against words only Ordination acknowledged to bee a Sacrament by M. CALVIN himselfe A Sacrament in lato sensu What our Church meaneth in saying there are but TWO SACRAMENTS CHAP. XXXIV Information against the Church-Book of Ordination which acknowledgeth the giving and receiving of the HOLY GHOST in sacred Orders so that Priests have that interior grace and power conferred upon them for the dispensation of divine mysteries which others have not CHAP. XXXV Touching power of Priesthood to forgive Sinnes Priests have power to forgive sinnes not originally but ministerially The doctrine of the Ordination and Communion-Booke for publick and private Absolution The Informers to lose the profits of their livings and to bee imprisoned without bayle for declaring against it CHAP. XXXVI Priests only and none other have commission from CHRIST to forgive sins The Extravagancies of Puritans and Papists both in this point CHAP. XXXVII THE CONCLUSION The issue of YATES and his FELLOW-Informers fond Accusations Other flying reports defamations neglected The Authors humble submission unto the Church of England and to HIS most sacred MAIESTY FINIS The Approbation I FRANCIS WHITE Doctor of Divinity and Dean of Carlile by the speciall direction and commandement of His most excellent Majestie have diligently perused and read over this BOOK intituled APPELLO CAESAREM A just Appeale from TWO unjust Informers by RICHARD MOUNTAGU and finding nothing therein but what is agreeable to the Publick Faith Doctrine and Discipline established in the Church of England I doe approove it as fit to be printed Dat. 15. Febr. 1624. FRANCIS WHITE APPELLO CAESAREM AN APPEALE FROM THE BRETHREN CHAP. I. Of the Inscription which the Informers made to their severall Articles INFORMERS ERRORS delivered by M. RICHARD MOUNTAGU in his Booke intituled A new Gagg c. and published by Authority this present yeare 1624. MOUNTAGU THese Informers in this Frontispice before their severall suggestions impliedly undertake to make good Three Assertions First that whatsoever They have challenged and articled against in their accusation hath been in terminis so Delivered by M. R. MOUNTAGU in his book as they have tendred it and no otherwise Secondly that all particulars so designed by Them and said to have beene delivered by Him were Published by warrant of Authoritie Thirdly that all things so Published and so Delivered and by Themselves the Informers insisted on and complained against are Errors actuall in themselves and so stand resolved and accounted of in the Doctrine of the Church The first of these three that is to say Whether or not whatsoever is so insisted on as Error hath beene so Delivered and Published as is suggested must hereafter bee examined in convenient Time and Place For haply all hath not beene so by Him Delivered as They have surmised and informed at least not in that sense as is conceived They may mistake his meaning why not For have they assistance of Infallibility annexed unto their conceipts especially in a prest and short style by him ensued and inclining to Scholasticall Character Or they may wilfully mistake his meaning to their owne advantage for Faction and Affection are too frequently interessed in Oppositions Or lastly they may well enough bee guiltie of misreporting his words I dare not trust their consciences in that point too farre I know their Charitic is not too transcendent But for Publication by Authoritie it may touch them neerer than they are aware of It is not unknowne not Authoritie that Puriritanicall Selfe-conceit and Presumption will square Law and Gospel too according unto that untoward Lesbian rule of their owne Private Spirit and speciall opinion and dare challenge any Authoritie old or new for Errors preaching publishing maintaining Errors viz. whatsoever doth not consort or run with the Tide of their Private Spirits motion And it hath beene found by experience practised of such male-content maligners at States in being Civill as well as Ecclesiasticall that they seldome or never talke of anie misbeing misordering misdemeaning in any point or case but that ever and anon directly or upon the By they can lend a lash unto or pinch upon the credite of Authoritie though most Sacred that great Cordolium and Moate-in-the-eye unto popular irregularitie and puritanicall paritie the Idoll of our Godly Brethren It is more than probable these Informers are of this stamp and making I have bin told and am assured they are two Grandees of the faction as great and turbulent as most bee in the Diocesse of Norwich which is not improbably thought to have of that Sect mo than enow They hold Authoritie interessed as farre at least as connivency goeth both for points of Poperie and Arminianisme if they could bee proved his against whom they are objected If it had not beene their purpose thus to have grated upon and galled Authority with little ado by the addition of but one poor word they might have amended and cleered all Had the Information beene carried and conceived thus and SAID to bee published by Authority the Errors of Popery and Arminianisme if any were must have laid all and every one hard upon M. MOUNTAGU interessed alone no reflection could have resulted as now intentionally upon Authoritie For Publication that gave life and living to these dangerous Errors is said to bee precisely the Act of Authoritie which is more than countenancing them in my understanding and I doubt not according to their interpretation Had this beene done M. MOUNTAGU must have borne all alone and what had it been that Hee erred He who may erre For in many things wee erre all but will be no Hereticke especially against the Church of England to the doctrine whereof established He hath more than once subscribed and therefore disclaimeth all aspersion of Poperie and is farther from it than any Puritan
acts thereof The memorable Saying of SCOTUS The power of the Will in things divine CHAP. XI The fourth and last point of ARMINIANISME touching the Synod of DORT The Synod of Dort not our Rule Private opinions no Rule The Informers imputations nothing at all THE SECOND PART touching POPERY CHAP. I. THe Author uncharitably traduced His profession for the doctrine discipline received and commanded in the Church of England Conformable Puritans Furious zeale The Church of Rome not a sound yet a true Church Private opinions disclaimed The Church of England asserted to her owne publick and proper Tenents The cause of all these Imputations CHAP. II. The Church Representative and Points Fundamentall what they are All that Papists say is not Poperie Particular Churches have and may erre The Catholick Vniversall Church hath not cannot erre Of Generall Councels The Author farre from the Iesuites fancy The XXI Article of the Church of England explaned CHAP. III. Strange accusations Antiquity reverenced not deified Fathers accused of some error by Iesuites The occasion of their enlarged speeches concerning Free-will The Author acquitted of Popery CHAP. IV. Private and publick doctrine differenced In what sense the Church is said to be alwaies visible The Author acquitted from Popery againe by others learned Divines Of the Church of Rome CHAP. V. Touching ANTICHRIST The Pope and Prelacie of Rome Antichristian That he is Magnus ille Antichristus is neither determined by the publick doctrine of the Church nor proved by any good argument of private men Difference among Divines who The Man of sinne should bee The markes of the great Antichrist fit the Turkish Tyrannie every way as well as the Papacy The peace of the Church not to bee disquieted through variety of opinions No finall resolution to be yet had in this point CHAP. VI. Touching IUSTIFICATION The state of a meere naturall man who to please GOD must become a new creature That newnes cannot bee wrought without a reall change of a sinner in his qualities In what sence it may be said that there is an Accesse of Iustification both by daily receiving remission of new sins and by increase of grace injoyning vertuous and good deeds unto faith CHAP. VII A change made in a justified man The Author agreeth in part with the Councell of Trent and therefore maintaineth Popery no necessarie illation The doctrine of the Church of England and of other reformed Churches in this point of Iustification CHAP. VIII Strange Popery GOD onely and properly justifieth CHAP. IX Holinesse of life added unto Iustification and Remission of sinnes GOD justifieth originally and Faith instrumentally CHAP. X. An Accesse declaratory made to the act of Iustification by the works of a lively faith S. PAUL and S. IAMES reconciled The old Prophets and ancient Fathers made new Papists by the Informers CHAP. XI The doctrine of MERIT ex condigno rejected as false and presumptuous Difference between the old and the new signification of Mereri CHAP. XII The quality and conditions of a good work required by the Roman Writers to make it rewardable as farre as they are positive no Protestant disalloweth of To those conditions may others be added CHAP. XIII GOD surely rewardeth good works according to his promise of his free bountie and grace CHAP. XIV The Church of England holdeth no such absolute certainty of salvation in just persons as they have of other objects of Faith expressly and directly revealed by GOD. CHAP. XV. Touching Evangelicall Counsailes Evangelicall Counsailes admitted according to the doctrine of the old Fathers and many learned Divines of our Church Popish doctrine concerning workes of Supererogation rejected CHAP. XVI S. GREG. NAZIANZ defended from the touch of uncircumcised lips CHAP. XVII The exposition of the saying of our SAVIOUR If thou wilt be perfect c. S. CHRYSOST S. AUG S. HIER S. AMBR. make it no imperious precept If it be the Informers are the least observers of it and sinne against their owne consciences CHAP. XVIII Touching LIMBUS PATRUM The dreames of Papists about Limbus Patrum related and rejected The state of mens soules after death The place proportioned to their state The soules of the blessed Fathers before CHRIST'S ascension in heavenly Palaces yet not in the third and highest heavens nor in that fulnesse of ioy which they have now and more of which they shall have heerafter The opinion of old and new Writers Our Canons not to be transgressed The doctrine and faith of the Church of England concerning the Article of CHRIST'S descent into Hell The disadvantage wee are at with our Adversaries Every Novellers Fancie printed and thrust upon us for the generall Tenet of our Church The plain and easie Articles of our CREED disturbed and obscured by the wild dreames of little lesse than blasphemous men by new Models of Divinity by Dry-fatts of severall Catechismes The Beleefe of Antiquity The Author and It far from POPERY CHAP. XIX The seventh point of Popery touching IMAGES The Historicall use of Images maketh nothing for the adoring of them Popish extravagancies CHAP. XX. S. GREG. doctrine concerning Images far from Popery CHAP. XXI No religious honour or worship to bee given unto Images They may affect the mindes of religious men by representing unto them the actions of CHRIST and his Saints In which regard all reverence simply cannot be abstracted from them CHAP. XXII Popish doctrine and practice both about adoration of Images rejected CHAP. XXIII The Church of England condemneth not the historicall use of Images The Booke of Homilies containes a general godly doctrine yet is it not in every point the publick dogmaticall resolved doctrine of the Church The Homily that seemeth to condemne all making of Images is to be understood with a restriction of making them to an unlawfull end Many passages therein were fitted to the present times and to the conditions of the people that then were The finall resolution of this controversie CHAP. XXIV Touching signing with the Signe of the CROSSE To signe with the signe of the Crosse out of Baptisme or upon the breast c. no more superstition than to signe in Baptisme or upon the forehead The practice of the ancient Church The reasons that moved them that might move us to use often signing They lived with Pagans and wee with Puritans both deriders of the signe of CHRIST'S Crosse CHAP. XXV The practice of the primitive Church approved Unadvised Informers Novellers rejected CHAP. XXVI The testimony of S. ATHANASIUS vilified by the Informers The testimonies of other Fathers concerning the efficacie and power of the signe of the Crosse CHAP. XXVII Popery is not the signing with but the adoring of the Crosse Strange effects which GOD hath wrought of old adhibito signo CRUCIS and may doe still by vertue of CHRISTS Death and Passion which that Signe doth represent CHAP. XXVIII The Informers presumption against the current of Antiquity CHAP. XXIX Touching the SACRAMENT of the ALTAR The Informers drawn low
proper acts thereof To will though drawne to performe many acts in course of life as willingly it could wish them to be otherwise Those in that Councell were Men as well as Pontificians learned men they were at least the major part and spake as well like men as for a factious party in the Church In that place they speak of Free-will in enlarged tearms and not in reference unto actions of grace of piety of repentance or regeneration and godlinesse toward GOD. Now it is I take it a ruled case with all reasonable men that in ADAM and through his Fall non amisimus naturam sed gratiam Indowments of grace above nature or additaments unto nature wee lost in ADAM Nature and naturall indowments were impaired and not extinct and abolished in his Fall Nec qui à Spiritu DEI igitur ideò se putet LIBERUM NON HABERE ARBITRIUM quod ne tunc quidem perdidit saith PROSPER quando Diabolo voluntate suâ se dedit à quo IUDICIUM VOLUNTATIS DEPRAVATUM EST NON ABLATUM Quod ergo NON INTERFECTUM EST per vulnerantem NON TOLLITUR per medentem vulnus sanatur non natura removetur In which sense and regard I inferred then and there a second decision of that Councell Liberum arbitrium non quidem EXTINCTUM esse sed viribus ATTENUATUM The which I might have enlarged and commented upon by the XVI Canon of the Synod of Dort in the IIII. Decision de conversionis modo where the Conveners will in these words proove either themselves Arminians or you Ignorántees or malicious Calumniators will they not Sicuti verò per lapsum homo non desiit esse homo intellectu voluntate praeditus nec peccatum quod universum genus humanum pervasit naturam generis humani sustulit sed depravavit spiritualiter occidit It a etiam haec divina regenerationis gratia non agit in hominibus tanquam TRUNCIS stipitibus nec VOLUNTATEM EIUS QUE PROPRIETATES TOLLIT aut INVITAM VIOLENTER COGIT No otherwise than so saith M. MOUNTAGU peradventure not so much as so but you say He concludeth this his Chapter thus Our Conclusion and yours is all one wee cannot wee doe not deny freedome of will in man whoso doth so is no CATHOLICKE I adde no nor PROTESTANT For I did not conceive that any Protestant till you professed your selves so senselesse would have denied that Conclusion There is FREE-WILL We eat we drinke we sleep wee wake wee walk we rest wee runne wee talk wee hold our peace we consent assent disagree freely wittingly willingly without any constraint out of the naturall power of our Free-will And yet further for your sakes I adde It were well done and worth the while as SCOTUS said well to cudgell him well and thriftily that should deny FREE-WILL so long untill hee did confesse it to be in our power to goe on to cease or hold our hands And if he should commence an action of battery to put in this Barre It was not I that beat him it was FATALL NECESSITY and I was thereby compelled to doe it I had not any FREE-WILL to resist it was not in my power to doe or not to doe otherwise But concerning Freewill the power possibility and activity of the will in the things of GOD towards GOD in the state of grace I have set downe my Errors as you call them in two propositions tendred unto mee and unto you also of the Church of England First that Man in state of naturall corruption cannot turne nor prepare himselfe unto GOD by or through his owne naturall and humane power and strength Secondly that Prevented by grace and by grace assisted hee putteth to his hand to procure augmentation of that grace as also continuance unto the end in that grace No man commeth unto GOD but he is drawne being drawne hee runneth or walketh as his assistance is and his owne agility and disposition unto the end No man beareth fruit in CHRIST IESUS the Vine unlesse that by the Husbandman hee bee engraffed To engraffe is opus Hortulani ALONE When as the branch is engraffed that it may prosper and beare fruit the root must supply the slip sucke and retaine sap supplied from the root This is enough no more need bee curiously insisted on or disputed of The Church of England doth no way contradict this it is the precise doctrine of our Church ARTIC X. The condition of man after the Fall of ADAM it such that he cannot turne nor prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength and good works to faith and calling upon GOD. Wherefore we have no power to doe good works pleasant and acceptable unto GOD without the grace of GOD by CHRIST preventing us that we may have a good will and working with us when we have it Man is heer in this passage by the Church considered two waies as in Nature depraved as in Nature againe by Grace restored In Nature depraved Freewill is totally denied unto man for any workes of righteousnesse acceptable or pleasing unto GOD before conversion or for works of actuall concurrency in the very act of first converting but not for workes of Nature or Morality of which works only the Proposition was to be understood Si per morale opus virtutes intelligas Philosophicas non neganius posse hominem sine speciali gratiâ multa fortiter temperanter juste agere saith D. WHITAKER And that saying of DAMASCEN is denyed of no man that hath his braines in his head 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Man being a creature endued with reason doth rather leà de nature than is led by nature and upon appetite or desire may shake off if he please and acquit himself of that desire or close in with it and give consent unto it In state of Grace repayring and restoring Nature Free-will is not denyed man but how Not as in or unto naturall objects hic mota movet It worketh with us we with it together with Grace when wee have once that good will wrought in us And surely if wee have it working at all it is not titulus sine re nor is it inane nihil as some it seemeth thought which the Councell of TRENT condemneth very justly This is not my singular fancy as your opinions most-what are private imaginations of opiniative men ignorant of others wedded to their owne conceits OPERATUR ille COOPERAMUR nos NON enim AUFERT sed ADIUVAT bone voluntatis arbitrium saith S. AUGUSTINE Quaest XV. super Deuteron And againe Quaest L. In spirit ualibus conflictibus sperandum est et petendum est adjutorium DEI. Non ut NOS NIHIL OPEREMUR sed ut ADIUTI COOPEREMUR And again Retract I. XXIII Vtrumque Credere velle DEI est NOSTRÛM utrumque est DEI DEI est quiae praeparat voluntatem NOSTRÛM est quia non fit nisi volentibus nobis and Epist CVII Quomodo dicuntur
Nice it was an Error in debating though not fundamentall touching that yoke of single life which they had meant once to have imposed upon the Church but in conclusion they erred not PAPHNUTIUS gave better advice and they followed it The Article may very well have aimed at this difference in Prosecution and Decision in saying ALL are not governed with the Spirit and word of GOD which is most true but some are and those some in all probability ever may prevaile as ever hitherto in such Councels in those cases they have prevailed against the greater part formerly resolved otherwise Againe the Article speaketh of Generall Councels indefinitely without precisely determining which are Generall which not what is a Generall Councell what not and so may and doth conclude reputed or pretended GENERALL Councels univocè GENERALL though not exactly and truely indeed such as was the Councell of Ariminum whereof I did not so much as intend to speak my speech being limitted with true and lawfull of which sort are not many to be found Lastly the Article speaketh of things that are controversae fidei and contentiosi juris I speak of things plainely delivered in HOLY SCRIPTURE for such are the Fundamentall points of our Faith And that it is so the ensuing words of the Article doe insinuate Things necessary unto Salvation must bee taken out of SCRIPTURE alone COUNCELS have no such over-awing power and authority as to tye men to Beleeve upon paine of Damnation without expresse warrant of GOD'S Word as is rightly resolved in the Article They are but Interpreters of the Law they are not absolute to make such a Law Interpretation is required but in things of doubtfull issue our Fundamentals are no such COUNCELS are supposed not to exceed their commission which warranteth them to debate and determine questions and things litigiosi status If they doe not hoc agere sincerely if they shall presume to make lawes without warrant and new articles of Faith who have no farther authority than to interprete them lawes without GOD'S word that shall binde the conscience and require obedience upon life and death our Church will not justifie their proceedings nor doe I. Non debet se Ecclesia CHRISTO praeponere cùm ille semper veraciter judicet Ecclesiastici autem Iudices sicut homines plerunque fallantur saith S. AUGUSTINE against CRESCONIUS the Donatist but he speaketh not there of Fundamentals indeed not of the Church representative as I explaine my selfe Nor doth that principall place of all make against me which is in him contra Donatistas concerning the erring of Generall Councells Et ipsa Concilia quae per singulas regiones provincias fiunt plenariorum Conciliorum authoritati quae siunt ex universo Christiano orbe cedunt ipsaque plenaria saepè priora à posterioribus emendantur cùm aliquo experimento rerum aperitur quod clausum er at cognoscitur quod latebat For he taketh Councells in a generall acception as it is plaine by him and hee speaketh not of Fundamentall points of Faith as both the cause it selfe argueth and his assigning of better information in tract of time to direct consequent Councells in determining contrary to precedent who for any thing he saith to the contrary might have truely determined as things then stood To conclude this Information is a meer cavill De tali Concilio saniori parte conclusionibus in fide probabile est No more CHAP. III. Strange accusations Antiquity reverenced not Deified Fathers accused of some error by Iesuites The occasion of their enlarged speeches concerning Free-will The Author acquitted of Popery INFORMERS AGaine speaking of the Fathers in generall hee professeth his opinion to bee that Those worthy Lights did not any way faile nor did darkenesse possesse their cleere understandings CHAP. XVI pag. CXIII The which is a saying more Popish than learned Papists durst ever affirme MOUNTAGU NAy more sottish than any Puritan but your selves would ever quarrell Malice and Ignorance whither wilt thou As if M. MOUNTAGU had affirmed that no Father ever Erred in any point whatsoever Masters Informers you may goe range this calumny under some other head for Popery will not admit nor entertaine it No ignorant Papist lesse learned than your selves nedum LEARNED Papist either taught or thought that no Father ever Erred And as for M. MOUNTAGU he utterly disclaimeth it Though no man living carrieth a more awfull regard and reverent respect unto Antiquity than hee doth yet never did hee so doate upon them It is more than ever entred into the compasse of his thoughts so to overlavish transcendently in their commendation as to give them prerogative of not erring at all and so to advance them unto their MAKERS seate It belongeth not to these Ancients but to the Ancient of Dayes not to Erre And so much M. MOUNTAGU had expressed in that former passage of his penne Take them at large and they lavish so farre sometimes that the greatest Patrons of the power and efficacy of Free-will dare not joine issue with some of them Then followeth that calumniated piece by those Pure Ones Not as if those worthy Lights had at any time failed or darkenesse possessed their cleer understanding Now you Promoters could your Christian charity be so defective or your common wit sense or understanding at so low an ebbe or your honesty so little or none at all as out of these premises so laid together to inferre so mishapen a calumny that M. MOUNTAGU Delivered and Published this Error that the Fathers none of them eyther did or could Erre at all as if he had erected to himselfe a new frame and fabrick of Popery never heard of in the world Whatsoever became of their Lights and Understandings deep Malice possessed your malignant Passions thus shamelesly to slander him with indeed more than the grossest Popery Thus it is M. MOUNTAGU speaketh not of all the Fathers in generall nor of their opinions in any one point 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but onely of their opinion in and concerning Free-will who have meddled with and written about Free-will This then is the first untruth by false suggestion fastned on him Secondly he professeth plainly that in and concerning this point of Free-will those Fathers did so farre outlavish and speak sso inlargedly that the very IESUITES post mot a certamina PELAGIANA for feare of seeming to Pelagianise dare not say so much as they have said at least wise some of them for which I have the warrant of Bishop MORTON in his Appeale to bee according to the confession of most learned Papists SIXTUS Senensis MALDONATE TOLET and PERERIUS His words are that In the roote of the doctrine of Free-will CHRYSOSTOME CYRILL THEOPHYLACT EUTHYMIUS OECUMENIUS AMMONIUS and most of others especially in the Greeke Church did yeeld too much unto the power of Nature in the Free-will of man These tearmes are farre from acquitting and discharging the Fathers of all Error in
all hostilitie calling themselves interim Musulmans that is the right Beleevers so that religion is openly pretended for hostilitie Furthermore yet MAOMET personally as a private man and a false Prophet was truely and indeed a man of Sinne not only for his morall parts in his loose licentiousnesse lewd carriage abominable life impietie improbity and impuritie every way unto the highest but in his ALCORAN that execrable Law of his damned Sect he commendeth and tendreth unto not only alloweth and tolerateth in his Sectaries all filthie carnall pleasures and prostitutions and in reward of such a life a semblable recompence also after death in a Paradise of that uaure abounding withall beast-like brothelries Seventhly hee directly and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without more ado thrusteth himselfe into the roome place state and office of CHRIST He exalteth himselfe above CHRIST above the Prophets Apostles all holy men all holy things and his Successors in State arrogate and challenge unto themselves absolute supreme independent power over the Kings and Monarchs of the earth calling themselves in their high-swelling stiles Lords of Lords GOD of the earth c. as is to bee seen in the Letters of SOLYMAN AMURATH and others challenging absolute irresistable incontrouleable power to set up pull downe order alter and dispose the world and all things in the world at pleasure That wretch MAOMET like ANTICHRIST indeed commandeth his ALCORAN and most abominable Law to bee received of all as the Message of GOD beeing nothing but a TYROTARICHON and hotch-potch of errors fables lies impieties impurities blasphemies derived from and made up out of Iewish Paganish Manichean Arian heresies religion and superstition He commendeth it unto his Followers as comming downe from heaven by the ministery of his familiar and old acquaintance the Angell GABRIEL He preferreth it before the Law the Gospell all or any Word of GOD. Hee threatneth torments eternall unto the despisers of it and unto the observers promiseth his carnall Paradise abounding with all sensuall delights and carnall pleasures and to conclude as in effect in despight of GOD conculcating and trampling under foot whatsoever is named GOD advanceth his owne blasphemous reprobate and forlorne miscreant as he is divine power and authority forsooth in the Divels name above all things whatsoever in heaven and earth If these be not certain signes and remonstrances of ANTICHRIST I cannot tell what are or may be thought to be Eightthly the TURK is and hath been long possessed of Ierusalem and the Land of promise that pleasant Land and holy City HOMAR the successor of MAOMET took it and since it hath been a neast of uncleane birds in the hands of those barbarous blasphemous miscreants except for some few yeers under the French The Iewes when MAOMET first declared himselfe came flocking unto him as unto their MESSIAS the sooner and rather because he was circumcised as bee all of his Sect at this day receiving in their flesh the marke stamp and character of the Beast They greatly advanced and propagated his impiety They paid him tribute to the intent to incite him against CHRIST and Christians and having prevailed and instigated him thereunto assisted him readily in that enterprize Ninthly the TURK fitteth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is verified in him take the meaning for either IN the Church or AGAINST the Church in both which senses it is expounded Take Templum materially or formally or figuratively any way that note will also fit him At Mechae was he buried in the Church there HOMAR his Successor enshrined him there appointed an Obit and Anniversary for him there made it meritorious to visit his Sepulchre to undertake Pilgrimages unto his Reliques which religion and custome continueth yet unto this day And yet more The same HOMAR having after two yeares siege taken in Ierusalem Templum exquisivit as writeth THEOPHANES cited by BARONIUS quod SALOMON extruxerat ad Blasphemiae suae Oratorium constituendum Which being done and his Oratory erected in place of the Iewish Temple SOPHRONIUS the then Patriarch of Ierusalem took up this saying as having reference unto ANTICHRIST In veritate ista est abominatio desolationis quae dicta est à DANIELE Prophetâ stans in loco sancto And yet farther MAOMET the Great having taken Constantinople and ruined the Empire of the Greekes sate him downe and made his Palace in the Cathedrall Church of SAN SOPHIA and in the Close and Cloisters the Bishops and Priests lodgings thereabout where is his Seraglia unto this day Part of that large and admirablest piece of worke one of the wonders of the world the Church of SAN SOPHIA namely the Chancell of that Church where stood the High Altar or Communion-Table and Patriarchall Throne is now made and so used as a Turkish Moschie whither the GRAUND SIGNIOR also himselfe goeth often a Procession unto their Service or blasphemous Rites and Ceremonies of their Religion Spiritually figuratively he sitteth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against or upon the living Temples of GOD the Church of the Redeemed by the bloud of IESUS because hee hath demolished ruined and brought unto confusion very many famous and renowned Christian Churches in Syria Palestina Egypt Persia Armenia Arabia Africa and Asia the Lesse and the More Graecia Thracia and many other Countries Those Churches all but one to which Saint PAUL wrote Those in the Revelation hee hath removed put out cast off their Candle and Candlestick bereft them of their spirituall life in CHRIST of the power of his Kingdome in preaching the Gospell hath set the marke of the Beast upon them circumcised them in their flesh taught them to blaspheme and to open their mouthes against the GOD of heaven He maketh and ever hath made warre against the Saints that is against the Christians called according to the calling of grace unto a profession holy and sanctified eo nomine alone because they professe the Name and Faith of CHRIST that they acknowledge the Onely true GOD and Him whom GOD hath sent CHRIST IESUS the Saviour and Redeemer of all mankinde and because they detest those execrable blasphemies of that false Prophet and man of sinne against GOD against CHRIST and true Religion seeking by all meanes to make them as they speake Musulmans that is to deny CHRIST IESUS and to goe to hell And for this cause one amongst many hee extremely tyrannizeth upon their bodies and temporall states a note of ANTICHRIST to doe so but in more cruell and wretched sort upon their soules especially in that his barbarous and unheard of Tribute of CHRISTIANS children every third year or as occasion serveth oftner or seldomer to be violently rest away from their Parents from their GOD Redeemer Religion hope of Salvation and everlasting life to become the Eunuchs in his Seraglia worse than those in the Court of the King of Babylon his Ianisaries Spahies Beglerbegs and Bashaes the publick meanes and instruments of his Tyranny and insolences against GOD and his Church Tenthly
publish it according to the CANONS prescribed unto Ministers in such cases knowing it to be the resolved doctrine of Antiquity as I do I am not excusable if I transgresse the CANONS What your ignorance may pleade for you I cannot tell I leave it to them that must look unto it where you live if you offend as you are like enough to do if it come in your way But on the other side there are Texts of Scripture that seem at least to say and have been ever taken of Writers old and new to say that the soules of the Fathers that died before CHRIST were not there whereas now they be as S. IOHN 111. 13. No man hath ascended into Heaven IOHN XIV 3. I goe to prepare a place for you PSAL. XXIV 6. Lift up your heads O you gates and be you lift up you everlasting doors and the King of glory shall come in Which Text of that Psalme all Antiquity from IUSTINE MARTYR downeward doe expound of Heaven opened at the Ascension of our SAVIOUR according unto that which we daily professe in our English LITURGIE out of and with Saint AMBROSE When thou hadst overcome the sharpnes of death thou didst OPEN the Kingdome of HEAVEN to all Beleevers So Heb. IX 8. 12. The WAY unto the HOLIEST OF ALL was NOT YET MANIFEST while as the FIRST Tabernacle was standing and Heb. X. 20. Heb. XI 39 40 UPON these grounds and others that I now remember not it hath been the common received opinion of all the FATHERS Greek and Latin that the soules of the Righteous before CHRIST were not in the highest and most glorious Heavens locally which is also the opinion of BULLINGER PETER MARTYR HYPERIUS and others BUCER and MUSCULUS directly write that the Thief was the first who with CHRIST entred into Paradise Upon M. CALVIN it is imposed by many though injuriously that he thought no righteous soule did doth or can goe into Heaven before the generall resurrection but indeed he declineth the question of the place and for the state against the Popish LIMBUS averreth that in respect of genericall happinesse they before CHRIST enjoyed the same that they doe now but for accidentall beatitude and degrees of happinesse he putteth a difference and resolveth that even now they are in profectu untill the day of Doome untill which time they expect in atrijs the consummation of their beatitude CHRISTUS Sanctuarium Coeli ingressus ad consummationem usque saeculorum solus populi eminùs in atrio residentis vota ad DEUM defert Instit 111. 20. 10. If a man should presse his words as they will beare the soules of the Righteous and those now that dye in the LORD nedum of the Fathers before CHRIST are not yet in Heaven but I doe it not This is all he favoureth the opinion of all Antiquity that the soules of the FATHERS before CHRIST were not in COELO SUMMO ET GLORIOSO and yet I hope CALVIN did not maintaine Limbus Patrum ALL this groweth for crossing your newly invented Puritanicall conceit and direct depravation of an Article of our Creed the descent of our Saviour into Hell and in answer unto the Gagger in this point have I in this particular angred the generation of your fellow-brethren The Popish Gagger objected unto the Church of England this TENET that IESUS CHRIST descended not into Hell Unto whom the substance of my Answer was With what face or what forehead can he say that we teach so that in our Creed repeat it openly and ever in the Church professe it in plaine and expresse words that propose it in Baptisme interrogatorily unto God-fathers and God-mothers to be answered unto avowed and publickly beleeved that teach it in our Catechisme unto children that subscribe it in our Articles thus THAT as CHRIST died for us and was BURIED so ALSO it is to bee beleeved that HEWENT DOWNE INTO HELL Artic. 111 that have publickly defended it against Puritanicall opposition and lastly that with us more more really and to purpose doe beleeve it than the Church of ROME doth and those that accuse us of sacrilege for violating an Article of our CREED For they professe that CHRIST onely descended into the uppermost Region of Hell LIMBUS PATRUM really into the other parts and continents virtually onely or effectually in the power of his GOD-HEAD and his Passion Non descendit ad INFEROS reproborum ac in perpetuum damnatorum saith their grand Dictator THOMAS AQUINAS quoniam ex co nulla est redemptio igitur ad eum locum descendit qui vel sinus ABRAHAE vel communiter LIMBUS PATRUM appellatur But the truth is we are at some disadvantage with our Romish Adversaries For as every one through the greedinesse of gaine may write and print almost what hee will especially if it savor of the Lemannian Lake so every private fancy every wilfull opinion ignorant assertion and some blasphemous dotages cast forth by any man that is or hath been of our Confession or is any way divided in Communion from the Church of Rome and us both is by many men and most an end by our Adversaries cast upon the generall Tenent of all Protestants and more specially upon the Church of England though that Church in the generall and approved Doctrine thereof doe detest it more than the Church of Rome doth In this very point the manifold dreames of new refined spirits are made ours their little lesse than blasphemies made ours the tergiversations qualifications disturbing of senses from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 anima Shéol Hádes Inferi Infernus and what not made ours the toies trash fables of Pagans Poets Philosophers Magicians and who not of what not brought in to trouble and disturb our belief by some that faine would bee and yet are loth to be Puritans made ours The much urging of this Article not to be found in ancient Creeds not to have been taught or beleeved of the Eastern Churches not of that of Constantinople I know not what else tending to make men first waver in their faith then to doubt of their faith and at length flatly to deny their faith if in this why not in other Articles that eyther are or may bee so serupulized all made ours laid unto our charge by our adversary and made the publick Doctrine of OUR Church So the blasphemy of CHRISTOPHER CARLILE that made this Article an Error and a Fable pag. XXVIII 77 against D. SMITH is made ours That horrible blasphemy that CHRIST indured the very torments of Hell and went down to suffer there as BANISTER and AEPINUS taught is made ours That CHRIST did being yet alive suffer in his humane soule INFERNI TREMENDA TORMENTA not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Greek Liturgies discrectly call them but even desperation and the second death as it is in HUMES Rejoinder unto D. HILL in DEERINGS Catechisme in your new fangled Modell of Divinity M. YATES was it not
Cardinall BELLARMINE Quod omnia CHRISTI beneficia recordari nos faciat YOU need not that help Happy men that are ever in actu exercitato and need no rubbing of your memory And that worthy Divine D. WHITE in his Brothers Defense pag. 61. hath these words The SIGNING of the body with the SIGNE OF THE CROSSE as it was anciently used by the prime Christians to these ends I. To professe that they were not ashamed of CHRIST crucified 2. nor of the persecution and crosses which befell them for his sake 3. that they hoped for redemption and salvation by CHRIST crucified whom Iewes and Gentiles despised our Divines acknowledge to be lawfull What saith M. MOUNTAGU more in his So do wee and then remembring some abuses of it in the Church of Rome addeth In regard of these abuses our Church observeth not so common an use of the signe of the Crosse as was in former Ages neverthelesse we condemne not the same signe in regard of it self You do I do not And heerin you see I am not alone IUNIUS Animadv c. BEL. de Imag. ca. 29. Respectus Crucis etiam Crucis CHRISTI ut historicus non malus simpliciter sed bonus Malus verò efficitur si proficiscatur ex animo praesumente mereri ex opere operato Nos in rebus sacris non improbaremus planè SIGNUM CRUCIS si abesset superstitio c. Rem non adeò fugeremus si abessent vitia indignè rem illam fermentantia Tolle errorem superstitionemque nemo vestrum aut illorum factum improbaturus est M. PERKINS in his Probleme though he faine would puritanize it and so goeth on heawing hoofe against hoofe yet confesseth that the Fathers used to arme themselves against the Divell with the signe of the Crosse but addeth They did not ascribe unto the outward signe any power or to opus operatum any efficacy As if we imagined so we say with himselfe that it is an idle and foolish forgery And one day you may reade if you will what M. MOUNTAGU hath written against ROSW the Iesuite to that very purpose But setting this superstition aside neyther can any moderate Protestant disallow the use of the Crosse as the Fathers used it nor can Master PERKINS refell it You are of THO. CARTWRIGHT'S minde I make no question that great Apostle of Puritanicall Schisme That that reason which moved the Fathers to use should move us not to use the signe of the Crosse They lived with Heathens who had the CROSSE of CHRIST in contempt we with such as ADORE the CROSSE Where first I answer with that incomparable HOOKER You erre not knowing the Fathers reasons This was one but this reason was not all because they lived with Pagans that did despite it Secondly wee live not so with Papists as they did with Pagans For the State and Prince in State is for us against the Papists so was it not for Christians against Pagans But thirdly I come home to you indeed The same reason that moved them may move us to use it more frequently than we are enjoyned more ordinarily than wee doe For wee live with Puritans and opposite Factionists that have the Crosse of CHRIST in as great contempt and despight as ever had IULIAN or any Pagan But as the Fathers when the CROSSE of CHRIST was in utter contempt did not superstitiously adore the same but rather did declare that they so esteemed it as was meet In like maner if wee finde the Crosse to have that honour which is due to CHRIST is it not as lawfull for us to retaine it in that estimation which it ought to have and in that use which it had of old without offence as by taking it cleane away to seeme followers of their example who doe cure wilfully by abscission that which they might both preserve and heale So that worthy HOOKER most learnedly and rightly For your resolution I am enjoyned to use it in Baptisme and so are you I doe so use it do you I scarce beleeve you doe it willingly I am not enioyned to use it in other actions places or times But am I inhibited to use it so Shew where how by whom I see reasons to my selfe peradventure to use it so or so and thus doe or may other as well as I. It is superstition you say pardon me if I take not your words for Gospell Prove it superstition and I yeeld The rule of your consciences is not the square of mine nor shall be except it were more regular perfect and exact than it is Enjoy your opinions to your self let me alone with mine in things indifferent that are not prohibited by lawfull authoritie any way For saith the XXX Canon and I embrace it Things of themselves indifferent doe in some sort alter their natures when they are eyther commanded or forbidden by a lawfull Magistrate and may not be omitted at every mans pleasure contrary to the law when they bee commanded nor ùsed when they are prohibited Till then at least I may use the signe of the Crosse You say it is Popery but you must remember that all your words are not Gospell nor all Popery that displeaseth a Puritan CHAP. XXV The practice of the primitive Church approved Vnadvised Informers Novellers rejected INFORMERS HEmentioneth and approveth the practice of the ANCIENTS They signed saith he their foreheads their hands c. MOUNTAGU IT Is true he mentioneth that practice of Antiquity it is false that hee approveth it in that passage of his for he barely relateth it and no more But you knew his heart peradventure by instinct For though it then dropped not from his pen what hee thought thereof yet seeing you put him to it to discover himselfe he hath done it and doth assure you he doth approve it And it seemeth strange to him that some few Pigmies of these times should presume to controll the practice of those Ancient Heroes of former ages and to doe it so with an high-hand wherein unadvisedly they runne upon that rocke which of all they cannot endure to fall upon For they confesse therein that Popery is ancient which M. MOUNTAGU saith all the Papists in the world cannot prove For they say in direct tearms M. MOUNTAGU approveth the practice of the Ancients and that which he approveth is by themselves censured for Popery Nay more they professe themselves therein Papists that give so much credit unto Popery as to confesse it so directly to bee ancient Out of this ground è lege â—alionis because they have now more than once informed against mee for Popery I might as well pay them in their owne coine Howsoever let all Novellers knowe I had rather venture to approove a supposed error with those Ancients the learnedst in the primitive Church of old than an imaginary truth or not so good with these Younglings according to that dictate of the Councell of Niee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 CHAP. XXVI The testimony of S. ATHANASIUS vilified by the
Informers The testimonies of other Fathers concerning the efficacy power of the signe of the Crosse INFORMERS HE citeth and approveth the testimony of one of them By the signe of the CROSSE of CHRIST all Magick spells are disappointed sorcery and Witchcraft commeth to nothing all Idolls are abandoned and forsaken MOUNTAGU QVà m contemptim One of them And was not that One worth the naming Deserved hee no respect from your Great Selves Your uncircumcised lips might well be sweetned with the name of that certaine quidam as you call him out of contempt Goe to it roundly quid haesitatis and with those prophane ones call him without more adoe SATHANASIUS for ATHANASIUS was the man there named to your hand A man deserving better of GOD'S Church than you and all YOUR Divines put them all together If you misdoubt the Testimony to bee forged because it was forgotten to name the place it is in his Book de Incarnatione verbi pag. 61. and was formerly remembred by him in the Tract against the Gentiles pa 1. If you call the truth of the Relation into question ATHANASIUS Word will passe where your Bond will not goe currant But you shall have mo witnesses to speake to the same purpose EPIPHANIUS relateth of a Christian young Gentlewoman that was quitted from the wanton assaults of a young man by signing herselfe with the signe of the Crosse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that in it GOD might remonstrate his wondrous power And againe the same Father saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Magicians and Sorcerers prevailed not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the woman found helpe in the SIGNE of CHRIST and through faith in him which is gladius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against Puritan and Papist against him for the bare signe against you for the signe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the name of CHRIST was invocated and the signe of the CROSSE made there Sorcery and Witchcraft could do nothing If you list to see more and hear more evidence to this purpose you may look upon that which NAZIANZENE hath of IULIAN the Apostata in his first Invective which THEODORET hath of a certaine Iew lib. 3. cap. 3. which EPIPHANIUS of another Iew IOSEPHUS by name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith CHRYSOSTOME we have also spirituall conjurations the Name of our Lord IESUS CHRIST 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the power of the CROSSE Nec mirum est quòd haec signa valent cùm à bonis Christianis adhibentur quando etiam cùm usurpantur ab extraneis qui omnino suum nomen ad istam militiam non dederunt propter honorem tamen excellentissimi Imperatoris valent faith S. AUGUST or whosoever wrote the LXXXIII Quest to DULCITIUS Now what say you to that Testimony of one of them If you will not admit the Doctrine because M. MOUNTAGU delivereth it I can name you one will say and approove as much whom you dare not deny to be of credit or stile a certain one of them The SIGNE of the CROSSE saith B. IEWEL was had in great regard among Christians and the more both for the publick reproach and shame that by the common judgement of the world was conceived against it and also for that most worthy price of our redemption that was offred upon it Therefore the faithfull which beleeved in CHRIST in all their talk in their whole life and conversation used so much the more to extoll and magnifie the same Thus as THEODORET reporteth the Christians every where in their common resorts and open market-places published and proclaimed the victory and triumph of the CROSSE The which as CHRYSOSTOME saith they were not ashamed to set as a Posie to any thing that they did and to any thing that they possessed Likewise GOD that the world might more deepely thinke of the death of CHRIST wrought oftentimes strange miracles by the same Now is not this as good Popery as M. MOUNTAGU'S alledging and approving ONE of them See more if you be so disposed in his XIV Article against HARDING CHAP. XXVII Popery is not the signing with but the adoring of the Crosse Strange effects which GOD hath wrought of old adhibito signo CRUCIS may doe still by the vertue of CHRISTS Death and Passion which that Signe doth represent INFORMERS HEe professeth that hee knoweth no cause of such distraction and disaffection betwixt us and the Papists for the reverent use of signing with the signe of the Crosse c. MOUNTAGU FOR this use betwixt any not alone nay not at all Vs and Papists For he nameth no Papists no more than Puritans It is a Glosse of your owne none of my Text and yet I will not desire to have it expunged though I might put it off unto that franticke Puritan PARKER and his furious Followers that indite the poor Crosse of felony murder adultery and all the sinnes against both the Tables I knowe no reason why they should charge us marry those of your shorter Cut they may both charge and challenge for being singular in their owne conceit against consent of Antiquity For the reverent pious and religious use of signing ad omnem omtum gestum habitum with the signe of the Crosse is no Popery which is a grand abuse and a sacrilege committed by them in adoring the Crosse and giving unto it divine worship and ascribing effects unto the bare signe ex opere operato which Antiquity never did not then when GOD shewed greatest wonders and magnified his power most of all at the use of it which you cannot disprove nor deny though you ramble and are ready to grinde the teeth at it HELEN adored the KING of heaven and not the woodden CROSSE saith S. AMBROSE In regard of that great and prophane abuse of it in the Roman Church we doe abstaine from the more frequent ordinary publick use of the signe which otherwise is lawfull and we might practice it much more than we do were it not for scandall But I adde in the conclusion I could tell some experimented effects thereof You meane in my owne experience by my selfe or some other of my acquaintance What I meane you have no authoritie to examine me Whatsoever you have given out amongst the Brethren in this point I may by all Law in tearms of ambiguity expound my selfe Therefore prate you in corners what you please I may intend this that I can out of my reading afford the Gagger who hath related none some examples of strange works wrought by GOD in the times of old at the use of the signe of the Crosse and some I have formerly made you acquainted withall out of EPIPHANIUS NAZIANZENE CHRYSOSTOME and others whose much grave and respected authority in the Church you though aptly disposed thereto dare not trample under foot as little account as you even now made of the Ancients As I told the Gagger before that I could afford him Fathers for the use thereof hee having