know that they know but in part and pag. 9. amongst those that are conscious of their owne infirmity which principle if he would please to follow home it would teach him to cast away the greatest part of his discourse with indignation and to say unto it get thee hence If he grants a possibility of errour or unrighteousnesse in the results and awards whether of his Presbytery or Assembly which are supposed to be transmitted to the Magistrate for execution he cannot speaking like a man deny him a lawfulnesse of power no nor yet a necessitie by way of duty to examine and judge them whether they bee lawfull or meet to bee put in execution or no. And he that hath a power to judge and to determine what is meet to be done or not done executed or not executed in matters of Religion may bee said to have a Directive power in such things at least in the common sense and notion of a Directive power as well as an Executive But 3. A. S. should befriend my intellect very much Sect. 4. to tell me plainly and distinctly what he means by a Directive power in matters of Religion being as it should seeme a daintie morsell which hee would faine complement away from the Parliament and civill Magistrate and snatch away from all others for himselfe and his friends Presbyteriall Ecclesiastiques to make merry with 1. If by a Directive power he meanes a liberty or power of considering advising and proposing of what may be expedient to be done in matters of Religion and for the good of the Church I know no man but is interessed in such a power As when the Tabernacle was to be built every man had power to bring and offer what hee had and what his heart served him to part with for such a purpose towards the edification and furnishing of it But why this liberty or power should be denied unto the Parliament or Civill Magistrate upon whom principally the charge lyeth to provide quietnesse and peace for the Churches within the verge of their temporall jurisdiction reason doubtlesse on this side the Moone there lyeth none and A. S. must be very Seraphicall to finde any 2. If by a Directive power Sect. 5. he meanes an authoritative power to conclude say and set down what shall must or ought to be done against all contradiction in matters of Religion I know no subject capable of such a power but onely he that is above all the Predicaments in Logique or he to whom all power is given both in Heaven and on earth Certain I am that neither the one nor the other can be invested with any greater power then this If the Presbyterians demand such a Directive power as this let them ask the Crowne Throne and Kingdome of Christ also 3. If by a Directive power he means Sect. 6. a prudentiall faculty or ability to direct order or prescribe whether unto a mans selfe or others what in a way of reason humane conjecture or probability is best and fittest to be done followed or imbraced in matters of Religion as I would not deny this power and that in somewhat a more excellent degree to A. S. his Presbytery or Synod alwayes provided that the constituting members of either be of a sound constitution as well for spirituall wisedome as for meeknesse and humility so is it not by A. S. to be denied to many private members of particular Churches daily experience teaching us that God gives of this prudentiall facultie unto many of these by the Ephah whereas to many Pastors it is given but by the Omer And if this be the Directive power which he meanes though he seeks to allure the Parliament from the claim of it by fastening a complementall commendation of modesty upon them by way of exchange for it proclaiming it unto the world that they doe not arrogate it to themselves yet they doe claim it yea and exercise act and make use of it from day to day as occasion requireth 1. In contriving and publishing their Ordinance for calling the Assembly formerly mentioned they exercised such a power as we now speak of 2. In limiting those that were to be of the Assembly to the subject or Argument on which it was permitted unto them to debate and treat as appeares by the Ordinance they did they did no lesse 3. In appointing and ordering them not to determine or conclude of things as they pleased by plurality of votes but to deliver their opinions and advices as should be most agreeable to the word of God another proviso in the Ordinance they did the same 4. In injoyning them in case of difference of opinions between them to present the same together with the reasons thereof unto both Houses another member of that Ordinance they did every whit as much 5. In their nomination and calling such and such Ministers or Divines by name and not others to bee of the Assembly they acted the same power 6. In framing the temper and constitution of the Assembly allaying it with such and such members of their own they steer'd the same course 7. And lastly to omit many other particulars of like consideration in their messages or directions sent unto them from time to time how to proceed what particulars to wave for the present what to fall upon and to debate to hasten the issue of their consultations with the like what doe they else but claim and exercise such a Directive power in matters of Religion as we last distinguished If A. S. Sect. 7. hath any other notion of his Directive power in matters of Religion besides these three my soule hath not yet entred into that his secret but waits for his opening a doore unto me by which it may He taxeth the Apologists once and again for generalities and obscurities in their expressions But he that saith A man should not steal commits sacriledge himself 4. Whereas harping still upon the same string Sect. 8. the sound whereof is so melodious in his own eares how harsh soever in other mens he chargeth the Apologists for going against the Parliaments intention in case they think that they should judge of questions in debate between them and their brethren surely he speaks rather as he would have it then as he hath any ground to speake If he had plowed with their Heiser consulted with their expressions of themselves in reference to their intentions in this kind he would have assoyled their riddle farre otherwise For to what purpose should they injoyne the Assembly as we lately heard they doe in the Ordinance mentioned in case of difference of opinions between them to present thesame together with the reasons therof unto both Houses of Parliament if they had no intention to umpire or judge between them Have they a desire to look upon such differences as some rare sight or pleasant spectacle onely to solace and delight themselves with them And why doth the tenour of their delegation
from the Old or New Testament but he should have done more ingenuously to have added no nor yet any materiall or implicit patterne neither For if he hath any materiall patterne it is so purely materiall that it may contend with materia prima it selfe for the prize of Invisibilitie If he hath any implicit it is wrapt up under so many folds and pleights of obscurity that no seeing eye is able to pierce through to it But doe we not give sentence too soon It may be his pattern from the New Testament will carry it though that from the Old refus'd to meddle with it But where shall we seek this He tells us pag. 41. That we may see it in the History of the New Testament in the judgement given out at the Synod either truly or untruly so called of Hierusalem concerning the businesse of Antiochia What possibly we may see in length and time is not easie to determine for the present but I have both more hope and feare of seeing a thousand other things which yet I cannot certainly say that I shall see then I have of either ever to see Classicall proceedings demonstrated out of that passage of Scripture Nor doth A. S. so much as put forth his little finger towards such a Demonstration but contents himselfe for the present to threaten us with his own hope of seeing the busines clearly demonstrated to us by a better â—and ere long Clear demonstrations of any thing from the Scriptures shall be very welcome to us at any time but me thinks I see such insuperable difficulties in the way that I feare that Demonstration will never come out cleare Yet because I would help forward the clearnes of it what I can I shal make bold to propound unto him that either is or shall be the undertaker thereof a few particulars which I humbly conceive must be substantially prov'd to make the Demonstration clear at least to me and many others 1. It must be prov'd that the Apostles in that meeting at Jerusalem Acts 15.6 sate there onely in the capacitie of ordinary Elders or Presbyters and not as Apostles i. that they wav'd or silenc'd the spirit of infallibilitie which was given them and fell to worke with the weak and fallible spirits of other men which is as if a man should pull out his eyes to see with the holes 2. It must further be prov'd that this Councell at Ierusalem had their state and set times of meeting as weekly monthly yearly or the like and that they did not assemble occasionally onely For this is one of the high characters of Presbytery by A. S. his owne calculation pag. 39. 3. It must yet be prov'd that they had Authoritatem citationis an authoritative power to cite and call before them whom they pleased with in the pale of Apostolicall jurisdiction that is within the compasse of the whole world 4. It must also be made cleere that the Apostles and Elders that were members of this Synod were sent hereunto by those particular Churches over whom they had right to claime Jurisdiction or intended to include in their determinations 5. The Demonstration will never bee cleare till it be substantially prov'd that there was none authorized to sit in that Councell but onely Church-Officers and Ecclesiasticall men the contrary hereof seeming at least very apparent from ver 22. 23. 6. That likewise must not be left unprov'd that this Councell had power as well to make new Laws of indifferent things as to impose things necessary upon the Churches ver 28. 7. The Demonstrator to make his worke cleere and clever must prove that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia had their Commissioners or Delegates sitting authoritatively in this Synod because they are included in the Determination ver 23. 8. It must be prov'd likewise that Paul and Barnabas sate as Commissioners upon the same terms for the Church of Antioch in this Synod 9. It must be made to appeare either that this Synod or Councell would have proceeded as now they did whether they could have said It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us or no or that ordinary Synods or Assemblies may lawfully proceed as they did though they have no such assurance of a concurrence of the Holy Ghost with them as they had 10. And lastly Proofe must be made that those words in the close of the Epistle sent from this Councell to the respective Churches yee shall do well ver 29. are fulminative import some such threatning or intimation as this that if they did not submit some further course must be taken with them If all these particulars shall be substantially cleered and proved I shall freely acknowledge that there is a plausible patterne for A.S. his Government in the new Testament but Hic labor hoc opus est I shall not pre-judge any mans abilities but for the present I doe as much expect the fulfilling of that Poeticall Prophecie Vnda dabit flammas dabit ignis aquas as I doe ever to see that fifteenth of the Acts safely deliver'd of the man-child cal'd Presbyterie Therefore A. S. must pardon us if as yet wee be not able to see any patterne at all of his Government neither formall nor materiall neither explicit nor implicit either in the old or new Testament Well but yet the man hath one string to his bowe more though Grace wil not relieve him it may be nature will He hath as hee saith a patterne in the Law of Nature which will suffice They must I beleeve have verie good appetites to Presbyterie that will bee suffic'd with this pattern The Law of nature is a very vast volume and A. S. hath not quoted either page leaf or section of the book so that I know not whither to turne or where to look for his patterne But me thinks the man himselfe hath given ample testimonie to the Law of Nature that it is no ways guiltie of or accessarie to his Presbyterian Government For that which cannot be made out to the judgements and consciences of men without the helpe of such an host of scholastique intricate if not inexplicable distinctions as A. S. is fain to leavie and muster together p. 29. 30. 31. 32. c. before he can make either hâ—ad or foot of his businesse what other originall or descent soever it may claim I know not but questionlesse the Law of Nature will not owne The Law of nature saith with one of natures sons Odi difficiles nugas she meddles not with subtilties niceties or curiosities of distinctions A man that is unlearned and but of ordinarie capacitie that shall read the pages last quoted may very possibly take his odde and uncouth distinctions for names of unclean spirits and thinke that the man conjur's for his Government But will you please to heare the names of his beagles with which he follows his game and hunts classique Law out of those deep and dark caverns tullians of the earth where
the Papists who pretend to be nothing but one Church meaning that a compliance with them in unity and uniformity will be an exemption to them from their calumnies 3. It is an old piece of subtilty of the old Serpent Sect. 14. to oppose God in his Saints and in his wayes by teaching his Prophets and Agents to make parallels between to sort and to suit Gods servants with his and Gods wayes or works with his that so the foolish and inconsiderate world might be brought to think that God and hee are but one and that there is little or no difference between them How did Jannes and Jambres withstand Moses but by doing the same things in appearance by the help of the Devill which Moses did by the finger of God By this they hardened Pharaoh and the Egyptians with this confidence and conceit that God was no more with Moses then with them A. S. parallels the Apologists with the Arminians hoping to catch the foot of the simple in this snare to make them think that they are both baptized into one and the same spirit you shall finde a further strain of this malignity in him pag. 22. Fourthly and lastly if the Arminians gave that power to the Civill Magistrate which they are here charged to have done Sect. 15. upon hope they would have beene for them they are no Antipodes to A. S. and his fraternitie who deny this power to the Civill Magistrate for feare they should not be for them if they were left free to judge of their owne actions All the lineaments in the face of Presbyterie demonstrate this to be in the heart of it a willingness to conferre all and all manner of power whatsoever upon the Civill Magistrate in matters of Religion which they may be secured will be used to serve their turnes and not to the prejudice or disturbance of them in their way And so A. S. after hee had laboured in the very fire and had ingag'd himselfe to the uttermost to prove the negative he fals off with this glozing close at the last pag. 51. that if the King and Parliament should finde any thing contrary to what he had delivered expedient he had nothing to say against it Therefore of the two Arminians are more charitably affected towards the Civill Magistrate in casting a power upon them out of an hope they would use if for their good then the Presbyterians are in denying this power unto them out of feare they will use it to their damage 6. And lastly Sect. 16. for conclusion of this first Chapter concerning such a Directive power in matters of Religion as A. S. it seemes would here sequester for the honour and service of his Presbyterie when Jesus Christ had declared himselfe willing to divest himselfe and make a delegation of it unto them I shall as willingly acknowledge and adore their parent as any other In the meane time God supporting me I shall with the utmost of my power and in the presence of all discouragements dangers deaths vindicate the rights and prerogatives belonging to the crowne of my great Lord and Master what shall become of me in so doing ipse viderit As for such a Directive power which with the honour and safety of the rights of Heaven is attributable unto men whose character and cognizance is this not to be compulsorie unto men by any externall violence whether directly or indirectly to subscribe against their judgements and consciences to it I can freely allow as much of it to A. S. and his Presbyterial Assemblies as will stand with their peace with God with their honour in the sight of unpartiall and intelligent men with the peace and edification of the Churches of God if they would have more let them looke to it this desire of theirs will in time finde them out and slay them Cap. 2. Concerning that executive coercitive and externall power in matters of Religion which A. S. ascribes unto the Civill Magistrate pag. 6. A. S. in this sixth page to perswade with the Parliament and Civill Magistrate that they shal do God good service to resigne up their eyes patiently into the hands of his Presbyterie feeds them with the commendations of Constantine the Great in refusing an unjust and exorbitant powâ—r which the Councell gave to him Where by the way it is somewhat observable that it is a thing incident to Councels and Synods to give unjust exorbitant power unto Civil Magistrates So that it stands the Parliament civil Magistrate in hand before they part with their eyes upon such terms to look about them and to consider twice over what power they receive and accept of from the hand of Councel and Synods especially in reference to matters of Religion and the Churches or servants of Christ It is a terrible saying of Christ enough to make both the ears of Kings and Princes and Parliaments yea and of Synods and Assemblies too to tingle Whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea Matth. 18.6 It is dangerous medling with Saints in any other way then of tenderness and love be the never so few in number never so weak in power or otherwise one of these little ones saith Christ All the 21. Reasons with 41. more put to them whereby A. S. incites the Parliament against a toleration of the Apologists with men of their judgement in the sequele of his discourse will not deliver either the King or Parliament out of the hand of that threatning if they come under the dint of it by offering any violence shall I say yea any offence to the least of these little ones The Holy Ghost I Cor. 15.24 prophesieth of the putting down of all rule and all authority and power by Christ the reason thereof in the words immediatly following hee sheweth to be their enmity unto him for hee must reign saith the Apostle Vers 25. till he hath put all his enemies under his feet The truth is that it is a very hard matter even for the best of men in places of rule authority and power to move regularly in their own orb and not to mistake or strain beyond the tenour of their commission to intermeddle in the affairs of Christ considering first that they are compassed about with their own infirmities as well as other men secondly in respect of their callings they are compassed about with more tentations this way then other men thirdly and lastly which is as much or more then both the former if they be Christians what between the insinuations and flatteries of the baser and the inconsiderate affections and favour of the better sort of Teachers they are taught to dash their foot against this stone as if it were another crown of glory to them But let us first see Sect. 2. what that executive or coercive if it
be lawfull to cut A. S. a syllable shorter power is which the man with both hands and an importune bounty will needs bestow upon the Civill Magistrate 2 By what authority and upon what grounds he doth it For the first hee describes and states this power after this manner pag. 6. The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church but only an executive coercitive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito as they say to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actufignato and jure in rem only till they become true Christians c. In this description the man is to me a Barbarian his own phrase to the Apologists in the word Church Sect. 3. I have bestowed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word but quanto plus cogito co minus capio For shame A. S. out with the beam of obscurity from your own eye before you tiffle again to pull the moat of obscurity out of your brothers eye A man in reason would think that the same word being used four or five times and that without the least intimation of any variety or difference of signification almost within the compasse of so many lines were still meant and to be taken in one and the same sense If so then ha with you The Parliament by that coercitive power which you are pleased here to bestow upon it by way of compensation for that directive power which you take from it compelleth say you refractory men to obey the Church I presume that by the Church here you do not mean all the particular Churches and Congregations in the kingdome in the folio of their respective members but in the deoimo sexto of their Synod representative Assembly If you take the word in the former sense you only say that the Parliament hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches with their severall members in the Kingdome which is a sense I conceive at as much defiance with your ends as with your and our understandings If you take it in the latter which I doubt not but is your beloved sense then your meaning is that the use and intent of that executive coercive power in matters of Religion which you put into the Parliaments hands is to compell the kingdome in case it be refractory or tot quot to obey the Presbyterie and Presbyteriall assemblies in all their Canons Determinations and Decrees whatsoever without bail or mainprise without mercy or compassion whether a man findes sap sense savour reason or Religion in them or no. But yet secondly Sect. 4. I know not well how you should mean the Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall Assembly neither first because you affirm in this coercive power in the Parliament to be not in but about the Church and for the Church And I doubt your meaning is not that the Parliament should either only or chiefly work or act with this their coercive power upon your Ecclesiastique Assemblies to restrain and keep them within compass though I confess if it should move only or chiefly in this sphere it would be more for the Church i. for the good and benefit of the Church in generall then to suffer such assemblies to fit and impose oaths upon men to obey their acts orders and decrees which you tell us glorying in your shame pag. 42. is done in your Presbyteriall Government and to punish or crush those that shall have more conscience then to inslave themselves unto them in such a way And 2. if by Church you should here mean the Church representative as it is more commonly then properly called in her generall Assembly you would be a little more open then I conceive will well stand with your principles in such cases For then your meaning is plainly this That the Parliament hath that executive coercive power which you ascribe to it not for the Church i. the benefit of the Saints and servants of God throughout the kingdome but for the benefit and behoof of the Ecclefiastique Presbyteries and Assemblies only Now however I can easily believe that thus you would have it yet I conceive it somewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profess it And yet 3. when you immediately adde that in vertue of this authority when parties pretend to be effended by the Church or if the Church judge any thing amiss hee the civill Magistrate may command the Church to revise and examine its judgement c. You must needs mean your transcendent Church of Presbyters otherwise you should prevaricate and grant a judiciary power to particular Congregations 4. And lastly in the very next page pag. 7. Sect. 5. to represent the voluntary exile of the Apologists with as hard-favour'd an aspect in the eyes of men as he could his indignation against it utters it self in this Patheticall strain over the poor Church of God in this Kingdome And if they all had fled away what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdome c. Here by the Church of God in this Kingdome he cannot mean the Ecclesiastique Church of representing Presbyters because if these had all fled away there had been no Church of God in such a sense in this Kingdome By the Church of God in this place if he means any thing like a man hee must needs mean the godly part in the Kingdom and that considered without their Presbyters or Pastours And oh that hee and his coopinatory party would but grant that that executive coercive power which is in the civil Magistrate is for this Church I mean for the benefit and peace of this Church of God But in the mean time you see that his Trumpet in the Description he gives of his executive coercive externall power in the Magistrate gives no distinct sound perhaps he blew wild on purpose lest an enemy should know how to prepare to battaile against him But is there never a blessing of reason or truth in all this cluster Come and see In vertue of this authoritie saith he when parties pretend to be offended with the Church or the Church judge any thing amisse Sect. 6. he the Civill Magistrate may command the Church to examine its judgement c. In these few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very confiderable partie of his owne beloved notions elsewhere For 1. What reason hath he to be so invective against the Apologists as he is pag. 49. and 50. for holding that Kings or civill Magistrates are above the Church when as himselfe here professeth that they may command the Church especially his own Maxime elsewhere being this that Par in parem non habet imperium and that
conceived to look like a proof of this his opinion and can finde none save only that poor one of the examples of the Kings of Juda pag. 63 inforc'd after this manner It is the Civill Magistrates part to take away Heresies Superstitions and corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda. Wherefore then is it not his duty likewise to take away all Schismes which are the high way to and sometimes from Heresie and consequently to deny Toleration which is a way to both Reader neither you nor I must be offended to have a mole-hill of proof given us for a mountain of conclusion You must know it is the manner of the Presbyterian School to hang great weights upon small wyars For what need Dictators argue But 1. If it be the Magistrates part to take away Superstitions Sect. 17. Heresies c. sure it is his part also to make himself able to discern superstitions and heresies from the true worship and truths of God Hee is to serve God in such a practice with his own understanding and not by the Proctorage of Presbyterie as you tell the Apologists pag. 48. that they must not serve God by a Proctor and if so you must untruss and deliver back again to him that Directive power in matters of Religion which you lately took from him 2. When the Magistrate takes away Superstition Heresie Sect. 18. c. hee had need have better security then a Synod can give him to save him harmless in case he should mistake and smite the truth of God in stead of Heresie and the true worship of God in stead of Superstition Act. 5.24.28.38 39. Gamaliel might have had the full Vote of a Synod or Councell for persecuting the Superstition Schisme and Heresie of the Apostles but this was not security enough to him he was afraid of fighting against God this notwithstanding And for my part when the civill Magistrate shall be far enough out of this danger of fighting against God I have nothing to say against his fighting with Superstition Heresie Schisme corruptions in manners c. Only my prayer for him unto God is that hee would give him a wife and understanding heart to consider and discern whether usurpation over the judgements and consciences of the Saints of God in matters of Religion be not as grand a corruption in manners as a Church or Kingdom is lighly incident unto 3. Because the examples of the Kings of Judah for want of better arguments Sect. 19. are so much importun'd to speak a good word for that executive coercive power in the Civill Magistrate with which A. S. would truk with him for that Directive power before spoken of let us consider with a little more freedome and ingenuity what they contribute thereunto 1. We do not read that any of the good Kings of Judah ever offered any violence to the true Prophets or people of the Lord except it were in passion as 2 Chron. 16.10 where Asa is said to have been wroth with the Seer that admonished him and to have put him in prison Which fact of his I think A. S. himself will be asham'd to present either to Kings or Parliaments for imitation Therefore whatsoever besides may be prov'd from the example of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion towards the rearing up of a Presbyterie in the perfection of its glory certain it is that nothing can be proved for the persecuting annoying crushing disgracing banishing fining the Apologists whom himself more then once or twice acknowledgeth for very pious godly and learned men 2. Neither did any of these Kings ever compell any man to be of the Jewish Religion nor yet to profess the Jewish Religion against their judgements It was permitted to persons of other Nations to live amongst them without being circumcised yea or without smarting for want of it 3. Nor do we reade Sect. 20. that ever they attempted any thing against any Sectaries or Schismatiques as A.S. would call them which yet abounded in great variety and numbers amongst them We do not finde that ever they finde imprison'd banished put to death either Scribes or Pharisees or Herodians or persons of any other Sect in the profession of the Jewish Religion that lived peaceably in their State Idolatry and Idolaters were it seems the adaequate object of their coercive power in matters of Religion 4. Nor did they Sect. 21. nor were they to inflict any outward punishment upon every kinde of Idolater though of the Jewish both Nation and Religion as first not upon covetous persons who yet are a kinde of Idolater Ephes 5.5 Nor secondly upon those that worshipped the true God of Israel though with some violation of the second Commandement as when they sacrificed in the high places c. But first upon such only who apostatiz'd from the God of Israel to serve strange gods the gods of other Nations And yet secondly not upon such neither simply as such but as attempting to intice and draw away other of the people of God unto the same Idolatries with them Deut. 13.5 8 9. 5. There are two reasons very considerable Sect. 22. why the Kings of Judah might be invested by God with a larger power in matters of Religion then Kings or Magistrates under the Gospel have any ground or warrant to claim from them First they were types of Christ which no King under heaven at this day is Secondly not the people only but the very Land over which they ruled were typicall also the one of the spirituall Church of Christ the other of the heavenly inheritance of that Church both of them holy and consecrate in speciall manner unto God If Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel can plead either these reasons or any other of equall consideration with these I shall not scruple an acknowledgement of an equality of power in them But otherwise to alledge the power of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion for an investiture of Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel with the like justifies the arguing of the Prelaticall School which pleads the order of the Aaronicall Priesthood to demonstrate the necessity of a Metropoliticall soveraigntie 6. It no where appears that any of the godly Kings of Judah ever had Sect. 23. or exercised any power to suppress banish imprison trample upon crush or grinde the faces of any godly persons among them were they few or many only because they were for a while tender in point of conscience to concurre with the major part of the Priests Scribes or Levites in some things disputable between them and others in the Land Vntill A. S. shall dig such a treasure as this out of the Scriptures hee will never have sufficient wherewith to finish that tower of a Magistraticall coercive power in matters of Religion which he hath bâ—gun to build 7. If A. S. or any other will needs make the Kings of Judah tributaries to his opinion
the Apologists p. 4. that you saw them no wayes minded to submit themselves in these matters of conscience to the desires of the Parliament I verily beleeve that did their judgements depend upon their wills as it seems yours doe they would have been as freely willing to have submitted in all things unto the desires of the Paâ—liament as you are But 6. If our wills be weak Sect. 8. and thereby are hindred from seeing that goodly vision of Presbyterian Government in the practice of the Jewish Church which you see what doe you contribute or afford us towards the healing and strengthening of them Nay doe you not rather occasion that which is weak in this kind to be quite turned out of the way For when you tell us as you doe pag. 13. 1. that the adaequate end of your Presbyteriall government is the externall peace of the Church And 2. that the power thereof consists first in the creation suspension and deposition of Church-officers secondly in determining matters of Doctrine thirdly in making Ecclesiasticall lawes concerning things indifferent c. all which you tell us on a heap pag. 42. you both make us very loth and unwilling to find your government there and withall very confident that there it is not to be found For First Sect. 9. was the adaequate end of the government of that Church the externall peace of the Church Had it nothing in designe for the spirituall good for the edification of the members of it in knowledge faith and holinesse Was the power of the high Priest given him only to keep the Church in externall peace I thought that to provide for the externall peace of the Church had rather appertained to the civill Magistrate and government then to the Ecclesiastick and it is the Apostle himself that thus thoughteth me 1 Tim. 2.2 where he enjoyneth that supplications prayers c. be made for Kings and all that are in authority that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honesty Secondly neither doe I find in the practise of that Church any power given to the combined rulers and governours thereof for the creation suspension deposition of Church-officers I read of the deposition of a Church-officer and no mean one neither by the Civill Magistrate 1. King 2.27 So Solomon cast out Abiathar from being Priest unto the Lord c. but of any such deposition by the combined rulers of that Church I remember not that I have read But 3. As for any power of determining matters of Doctrine Sect. 10. this is further out of my ken in the practice of that Church then any thing else I know not well what A. S. means by his phrase of Determining matters of Doctrine but in my notion and in the Grammaticall and proper sense of the word Determine the claim of such a power riseth up as a high partition-wall between me and his Government If by a power of determining matters of doctrine he meanes nothing else but a liberty or ability of discussing and arguing such matters and of recommending the issues and results of such discussions unto the Churches as consonant in their judgements to the truth with a proposall of their desires unto the Churches to consider well of them and to embrace them if they can so judge and conceive of them I have nothing to oppose against this power But if by his power to determine matters of Religion he means a power of concluding or defining what men shall be bound in conscience to receive and beleeve for truth and shal be look'd upon as sinning in case they doe it not whether they see sufficient ground for what is so concluded and obtruded upon them or not which I partly beleeve to be A. S. his sense I am sure is the proper sense of the word such a power is and I think ever will bee the first-born of the abhorrings of my soul I confesse I cannot be over-confident that A.S. intends the residence of such a power as this in his Presbyterian Assemblies partly because he speakes somewhat like a man in this behalfe elsewhere supposing it to be safe even for a few men to dissent from all the world Paget Defence of Church government pag. 29. in case they have very strong reasons for their dissent pag. 22. and requires no subjection in particular Congregations unto the judgment of Senats or Assemblies but according to Gods word pag. 28. I trust he means so apprehended by the congregation without this there is no subjection according to Gods word And again pag. 68. acknowledgeth it as an undoubted maxime that the church hath no absolute power in her judgments c. with many savoury expressions in this kind partly also because I find this indulgence generally subscribed with Presbyterian pens That the authority which Classes and Synods exercise is not absolute nor their Decrees held to be infallible but to be examined by the word of God and not to be received further then they do agree bâ—rewith And yet on the other hand I confesse that I cannot conceive or comprehend how A.S. his government can hold up her head like her selfe if this Iron-mace be taken out of her hand For my part if this one Article of a liberty to wave Presbyteriall Injunctions and Decisions in case of a non liquet from the word of God to him to whom they are tendered will bee but assented unto and candidly kept and performed it would be the best Mediator I know to reconcile my thoughts and judgement to it 4. Nor can I in the practice of the Jewish Church Sect. 13. find either vola or vestigium of a power granted unto the Rulers thereof to make Ecclesiasticall laws concerning things indifferent I rather find a prohibition served upon them for making any such laws Ye shall put nothing unto the word which I command you nor shall you take ought therefrom c. Deut. 4.2 So again Chap. 12.32 If A. S. can but produce one example of any such Law or Constitution made by them he shall be a good benefactor to the penury of my notions and in consideration thereof I will bestow upon him a dashing out of this peece of his charge 5. And lastly Sect. 12. in the practice of the Jewish Church the Prelaticall Schoole sees a vision or platforme of her government also And A.S. by your leave the High-Priest as well in his Authoritie as in his robes and holy accoutrements did farre more plausibly sympathize with Metropoliticall state and greatnesse then with Presbyteriall For my part I am not able to discern in all the practice of the Jewish Church from the one end of it unto the other any peece straine or veine of such a patterne as A. S. speaks of Surely the vision is so condition'd as not to be seen but upon Presbyterian ground The man did wisely in granting that he had no formall or expresse patterne for his government either
Nature had hid it stygiisque admoveratumbris The first couple Actus primus senior and Actus secundus senior The second couple Actus primus junior and Actus secundus junior The third Actus primus tertius and Actus secundus tertius The fourth Actus signatus senior and Actus exercitus senior The fist Actus signatus junior and Actus exercitus junior The sixt collectivè and distributiv The seventh formerly and materially The eight Totum simpliciter and totum totaliter The ninth Omne simpliciter per omne and pro omni omnino vel omnimodo The tenth Totum totaliter and totum modificatum The eleventh Divisim conjunctim The twelfth per se and per accidens The thirteenth and last Totum confusum and totum ordinatum Can any reasonable man imagine that that conclusion or practise which cannot be justified or cleared to the understanding and conscience of learned pregnant and apprehensive men for these are no lettuces for illiterate lips but by the contributions and engagements of all these distinctions and some others not listed should be sufficiently contained in the Law of nature The Law of nature is a book for every mans reading and understanding but this volume of distinctions is scarce for any mans If A. S. and his partie would but spare the vulgar and common sort of men as there is neither reason nor Religion but why they should from putting their necks under the yoke of Classique Governement untill they can plough with these heifers I meane till he or they have made them capable of all these distinctions for my part I should not feare much danger or inconvenience from it except it were the intercepting or suspending of such a Governement as might be a benefit and blessing to them whilest they are in preparing for the other In the mean time we clearly see that all A. S. his foundations for his Presbyteriall building fail him neither the old Testament nor the New nor yet the Law of Nature will consent to beare or to support any such fabrique Nor is all that hath been here said by way of contest with him about his Government any whit more then a first fruits of what is further opposeable to it Chapt. 4 Concerning the form of Church-government maintained by the. Apologists commonly called nomine ad invidiam comparato by the nick-name of Independency by themselves Congregationall and whether A. S. his exceptions against it be materiall or of that moment that it should give place to its Competitor FOr the justification of this Government in a cat askeuastique or assertive way I shall plead nothing further for the present then what the Presbyterian School it self grants conceiving that to be a ground impregnable especially quoad homines to found the lawfulness of it upon I shall rather address to my Antagonist A. S. and try whether he be any whit more dexterous at pulling down then we lately found him at building up it may be he is better at hiding then at finding But first See Mast r Câ—â—â—â—s Hole Independency c. p. 2. towards the building up of the Congregationall Government this corner-stone is given us by our Adversaries that where there is no neighbourhood of Congregations or single Churches whereby they may with conveniency be aiding each to other there a single Congregation must not he denyed entireness of jurisdiction If wee cannot upon this advantage of ground make good this government against all opposition it is very ill bestowed on us and wee deserve to be punished with that which lifts up it self against it But First if entireness of Government or jurisdiction be not to be denyed to a single Congregation when it is solitary and without neighbours then certainly it hath a lawfull right title or claim to such a Jurisdiction For whatsoever doth not in a way of equity or right belong unto any man ought to be denyed unto him If then a single Church in this case hath a right to an intireness of rule and government within it self I would gladly know by what right any other Church or churches be they never so many can take away this right or priviledge from it Those whom God hath put together saith our Saviour in the case of marriage let not man put asunder Doubtless if a single Church under the circumstance mentioned hath a right to an intireness of jurisdiction within it self it hath this right conferred upon it by God or Christ himself there being no other fountain or foundation thereof imaginable And if so then who ever shall take away or deny this right of Jurisdiction unto it must shew a commission from heaven to do it or otherwise be guilty of putting those asunder whom God hath joyned together Secondly if a Church yet single be invested with a power of Jurisdiction within it self and should be cashiered of this power by the rising up of more Churches neer unto her then that which is intended by God as a table should become a snare unto her she should suff r lâ—ss and have sorrow from those by whom shee ought to be comforted Thirdly If a single Church should suffer loss of so considerable a priviledge as entireness of Jurisdiction is by the multiplication of Churches n er unto her then cannot this Church pray for the propagation of the Gospel in places neer to it but she must pray against her own comfort and peace which is a sore temptation upon her either to pray very faintly or not to pray at all for such a thing If it be objected and said that intireness of Jurisdiction is no benefit or priviledge to a single Church but rather an inconvenience or a diminutive priviledge at best and that her condition shall be improv'd not impaired by combining her self in point of government with other Churches I answer First that the Scripture it self makes intireness of government or subjection only unto those that are of the same society or body a speciall mercy favour and blessing from God And their Nobles shall be of themselves saith God speaking of that great goodness he meant to shew unto his people after their return from Babylon and their Governour shall proceed from the midst of them c. Jer. 30.21 So it is made a character or sign of the prosperous estate of Tyres that her wise men that were in her i. of her own Nation were her pilots Ezek. 27.8 Secondly subjection unto strangers is still spoken of as matter of punishment and sorrow Give not thine heritage to reproach that the heathen should reigne over it Joel 2.17 The Nations of the Jews were expresly forbidden to set strangers to rule over them Deut. 17.15 If it be objected But Pastours or Elders of neighbour Churches ought not to be looked upon as strangers but as Brethren I answer in a word though they be brethren in comparison of the unbelieving party of the world and in respect of their spirituall descent from the same
pride as that the patient Philosopher could justly reply yea saith he Thou dancest on my pride with thy greater pride How much of this is A. S. his I say not but sure it was the unseasonablest if not the most unsavoury book to multitudes of spirituall palates as ever wise man put forth Yet Iames Cranford is quoted by the Printer in the page before the Title as approving it and the book with a licentious approbation in these words These judicious Observations and Annotations c. as being at this time necessarie and seasonable for the vindication of all Protestant Churches defending the authority of Parliaments and Synods and prevention of division amongst our selves though I reverence the persons of the Apologists yet I approve to be impressed Mr. Cranford if the Printer hath dealt faithfully with you let me intreat you and the Lord help you to see your selfe ask your conscience ask your reason ask the book it selfe whether there be one true clause in all that you have said Are these Observations c. of A. S. judicious that are extra-judiciall and prejudiciall to the publick peace and order and ordinance for dispute prejudging and adjudging them who joyntly with the grave Assembly A. S. acknowledgeth the Arbitrator in the matters in question Are they at this time necessarie when the grave Commissioners of Scotland had with farre more prudence and solidity then A. S. said by way of reply so much to the Apologie Nemine reclamante none replying till A. S. was abroad Is there any need to bring a great printing Presse to squeese to death a poore worme troden on before Or to bring many leavers to break an egge that makes small resistance The truth is A. S. his Observations are like a man with a Pole-axe knocking a man on the head to kill a flie lighting on his beard For though he saith He humbly submitteth to the Protestant Churches yet hee layes about him as if hee would knock them all down unto a submission to A.S. whosoever they be that will not stoop to his book For though he thinkes that all Protestant and Christian Churches are for him rather then for the five Ministers as he intimates in the beginning of his Epistle and therefore in all likelihood professeth a submission to them yet he will find many Churches in London he would wonder if we should name how many that will not submit to his book and yet come to the publick Ordinance doe not separate but are most willing to submit to the truth regularly discussed cleared and brought down to them Yet still James Cranford stands fixed in the licence page in black and not blush for asserting that A. S. his Observations c. are judicious and necessarie when as they are neither unlesse preposterousnesse abuse of good men and the disturbance of the people be judicious and necessarie For though the ensuing answer will prove them evill yet they will never be proved necessarie evils They are not so much as civilly necessary either necessitate praecepti as commanded by Parliament or Assembly or necessitate medii as usefull to compose but indispose the minds of men to embrace things prejudiced with the violence of private spirits Men will not be so easily whipt and compelled by one inferiour Again are the Observations seasonable which doe but interstrepere make a noyse whilst the Divines are disputing drawing the people together in heaps there taking up their parts to defend one against another and pre-ingage themselves before they come to heare what the Assembly will say For such a book cannot come forth but it makes a thousand dispute in a week every one then contending for his owne when it is so irregularly and illegally taken from him Are they for the vindication of all Protestant Churches when as in condemning the Apology they condemne many very many Churches in England many in Holland generally all in New-England notwithstanding some private Letters and Manuscripts sent over to which we shall answer afterwards Are they for the defence of the authoritie of Parliament in opposition to the Apology Doth the Apology touch one haire of the honourable heads of the Parliament Are not the five Ministers chidden some where in print R. C. for saying They allow more to the civill Magistrate then they thinke others principles can Doth not A. S. snib them tâ—o for going as he thinkes in their Apology to the civill Magistrate Pag. 4. Doth not A. S. in his Booke give a negative vote against the civill Magistrates directive power in matters of Religion Pag. 5. Let me say what I thinke seeng I think no harme viz. If the resolutions of the Divines be not digested by the reason and graces of the Houses of Parliament and so made as their owne sense for ought I know they will never be turned into a Statute If the Parliament have no directive power in matters of Religion or Ecclesiasticall under any notion then A. S. will condemn them for voting down the new Canons and prescribing the Oath or Covenant Are these Observations for the defence of the authoritie of Synods in opposition to the Apologie What Synods Scripture-Synods Where doth the Apologie whimper against them or doe you mean Classicall ones If so that 's the question And so you proclaim a defence of that which yet hath no existence The question is not resolved Lastly are these Observations for prevention of sad division amongst our selves Well Mr. Cranford you have by this endeavoured to set Divines together by the eares More Ecclesiastico your licentiating hath inabled men to give the second blow upon which the Common Law layeth the breach of the peace And notwithstanding you licence these Annotations yet you say you reverence the persons of the Apologists A pinne for such complements Love me and love the truth Let us measure your respects to them whilst the advantage of the higher ground whereon it stands be removed Away with your dare verba your froathy words This is the truth so much you respect them as A. S. respects them And so much have you spoken judiciously truly and seasonably as A.S. hath spoken and no more If he be cast you will be condemned Stand by Mr Cranford and heare A. S. tryed and in him your selfe THE EPISTLE A. S. To the right reverend Divines the Authors of the Apologetical Narration M. S. The Authors of the Apologeticall Narration desire more of your right though they have lesse of your reverence Had I written a booke with so much unreverence I would either have blotted out my title Right Reverend or else I should never have put in that Episcopall stile Most Reverend and Right Reverend seeing the Bishops are going For to stroke in the title and to strike in the book is but flattery if not grosse dissimulation Or as to say Art thou in health my brother and in the meane while to strike under the fift rib A. S. The high esteeme I have ever
had of your persons c. except onely in your particular opinions wherein the dissent from al Protestant yea all Christian Churches in the world M. S. Now let the Protestant Churches to whom you say you submit judge whether in these words there be not a notorious untruth For wherein doe the five Ministers and their Churches differ from many Churches in England diverse in Holland and generally all within the Patent of New-England if you account these places Protestant It may be you will object Mr. Parkers Letter and some Manuscripts from New-England and the Letter from Zeland To Mr. Parker his Letter we neede say little the Letter will answer for us though Mr. Parker little thought when he wrote it to finde an A. S. in England or that his brother Bayly would have printed his Letter seemingly to anticipate the disputation of the Assembly as if hee meant to beg the question though but with shewes and shadowes 1. Mr. Parker saith not one word for a Classicall Presbyterie the maine difference in hand but for a Congregationall that he would have in some things more managed by the Presbyteries of every Congregation without putting every thing to the vote of the people of the Congregation because some confusion hath followed upon it Doth in necessaries abuse take away the use There was confusion in the Church of Corinth Or is there any mention of this in the Apologie that all businesses of the Church must be put to the vote of the Congregation 2. That in that thing only there hath been an arguing on both sides M. Parker Mr. Noyse only are mentioned in the letter to be on the one side all the other Churches on the other against Mr. Parker and Mr. Noyse And 3ly Mr. Parker doth not say he won the day but as hee answered their Arguments as he saith so he confesseth they answered his Arguments and the thing is left to consideration Yea a godly man of New-England told me that the Churches of New-England did conceive that Mr. Parker had received full satisfaction from them in that point How ever it were all amounts but to a private letter subscribed by one man yet Imprimatur saith I. C. as if much to the purpose But tooke but a little afterward to our answer to a Letter from Zeland and you shall find the judgement of New-England in Letters newly come over To any private copies or Manuscripts from New-England one Mr. Rutherfâ—â—d hath answered as too much jumping with the Apologie and opposite to Classicall Presbytery Another if it had come forth would have beene keener against A. S. then the Apologie is So that if the Apologie doe differ from that it 's onely because the Apologie more agrees with the reformed Churches of this Island And for the third it hath nothing at all for Classicall Presbyterie but some things touching the ordering of Congregationall Presbyteries and all these are but private intelligencers and mutuall advisers not determination or natioâ—all No more then I suppose Mr. Cranford or A. S. will account the strange Queries on the Apologie and Scotch Commissioners Reply to bee the sense of New-England though made by one of that Countrey As for the letter of Zeland I cannot tell how to speak all the truth not offend some whom by my will I would not in the least displease Sure this will not offend to tell A. S. that in Holland if not in Zeland are some Churches that are fully with the five Ministers unto which some of them doe relate And to speake these things to the Letter it selfe being matters of fact I hope cannot justly offend 1. That that Letter came admirably punctuall upon the very nick after the first reply to the Apologie was out 2. That a Scottish Knight as it was informed nine or ten dayes before it was known abroad that the letter was to come said What if ye receive a Letter from Zeland disliking the Apologie or to that effect 3. That there is a Scottish Church of which one Spang is a very busie agent at Trevere hard by Middleborough whence the letter came 4. That there are in it many high passages seeming to some so prejudiciall to our worthy Magistracy that it justifies that of the Apology saying That the five Ministers c. give more to the Civil Magistrates then the principles of some Presbyterians do The said letter giving so too little to the Magistracy that the State of England I think cannot approve it here among us Verbum sapientisat est More may be thought upon evident grounds but not spoken here 5. Most happily by almost a miraculary providence in this nick of time came two letters from New-England to countermand Mr. Parkers Letter thence and the other from Zeland The first from Mr. Winthorp Governor of New England To his reverend and very good brother Mr. Hugh Peters Minister of the Gospel these deliver in London Our late Assembly of about fourty Elders met wherein the way of our Churches was approved and the Presbytery disallowed Winthorp Governor Decemb. 10. 1643. The second from another of New-England to another Minister in Old-England about the same time wherein we have these passages We have had saith he a Synod lately in our Colledge wherein sundry things were agreed on gravely as That the votes of the people are needfull in all admissions and excommunications at least in way of consent all yeelding to act with their consent 2. That those that are fit matter for a Church though they are not alwayes able to make large and particular relations of the work and doctrine of faith yet must not live in the commission of any known sin or the neglect of any known duty 3. That consociation of Churches in way of more generall meetings yearly and more private monethly or quarterly as Consultative Synods are very comfortable and necessary for the peace and good of the Churches 4. It was generally desired that the exercitium of the Churches power might onely be in the Eldership in each particular Church unlesse their sinnes be apparent in their worke 5. That Parishes Churches in old England could not be right without a renewed Covenant at least and the refusers excluded And were not New-England so farre the Churches of New-England would soon send a third punctually to approve the Apologie unless it bee for their merer compliance with them who notwithstanding have written against them We have been the longer in answer to this clause because wee finde A. S. to bee but the Text of other mens Commentary-discourses who say That the five Ministers will oppose all the visible Christian Churches in the world If they did it were not such a wonder as for one Wickliff in one age one Husse in another and Luther in a third to oppose all the world The truth is all Churches generally partly by tyranny and partly by Security are grown so corrupt that to apologize for a through reformation seemes to reprove all
and so all are ready to be offended that are lesse reformed We have heard of sad stories of late but true not teld in a corner of the lamentable over-spreading of Popery Atheisme drunkennesse in some kingdomes and adulterie formality c. in others If we reforme but in part by halves imitating Hen. 8. towards the Pope cutting off the head of Prelacie and sitting down in their Chaire similia non sunt contraria as Mr Davenport meeting with a Classicall Presbytery in his way to New-England said they were but thirteen Bishops for one the cry of the sin against our light and opportunity will call back our reeling Reformation like will hasten to like an unblest posture will leave us unhealed of our sins and our sins will make us become any thing Had not the Abbeys been pulled downe the Priories since had had opportunity to have risen Therefore Moses grinds the Idol to powder that it might be quite abolished I speak all this by way of supposition what shall upon full debate be found to be the Idol the nest of Popery the Chair of Prelacy the half-reformation Thus of your charging the five Ministers with dissenting from all Protestant Churches The expression that follows is a most grosse one That they differ from all Christian Churches I say grosse in two things 1. To call them Churches and Christian that are not Protestant and ergo are Popish now since the Councell of Trent wherein they gave Christ a bill of divorce as the learned assert anathematizing most of his main truths The Popish notwithstanding a few Saints in secret here and there are in a dependance on Antichrist 2. To charge it as a crime on the five Ministers to differ from them when as it is a sin and shame not to dissent from them If you diffent not from them you will never kindly dissent from the intituled Mo. R. A. BB. and Rt. Rev. BB. I observe that men in their Replies secretly afore they are aware run to the Popish markes of a Church viz. Visibility Succession Vniversalitie A. S. You as my selfe are but men yet ye know but in part and consequently may erre M. S. Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part then the other five Ministers or else sure he would not so boldly condemne them of erring in a point which all the Assembly have not yet determined and so peremptorily acquit himself A. S. I thought this which is the question between you and all the Churches in the Christian world M. S. This untruth comes thick upon us that the Apol differs from all the Christian world It is intimated in the title It is expressed in the very beginning of the Epistle and here againe and once more in 3. pag. of the Epist and once in Consid 5. and how oft more in the book I doe not yet know till I find as I goe We have answered it once for all in the threshold of this Epistle A. S. I esteemed it no lesse a part of my dutie and Christian libertie as a man to oppose my selfe to five men then for five men to oppose five hundred thousand c. M. S. Hear ye O all ye men on earth that A. S. saith it is his Christian liberty to oppose the five Ministers but the whole scope of his booke is to rebuke them upon supposition that they doe oppose others whiles they tell them wherein they agree with them One instance follows at the heâ—l of his Christian liberty to which by and by Mean while Reader observe how this mans words do smell popishly though I think the man to be a real Protestant as if they came from Rome intimating as if visibilitie universalitie and so pluralitie of voyces of learned men might be unerring or very certain argument He speaks as if he had forgot or never heard of Wickliff many yeares after him Husse long after him Luther justly opposing the whole world as we all religiously maintain at this day And that one Paphâ—utius opposed a whole Councel mistaken in a point which is upon record of History to his great honour to this day A. S. Five men to oppose so many learned men so many holy Divines hundreds and thousands for one of you no way inferiour to the learnedest and best among you and not only to particular men and Divines but to so many yea and those the most pure and most reformed Churches of the world amongst whom there have been found so many thousands who have sealed Christs truth with the losse of their goods imprisonment of their bodies by exile of their persons yea with their dearest blood and lives who if they wrote not miracles yet God declared his almighty power in working miracles about them c. M. S. Here we have in forme and I will not say how much more a Popish argument I will not say a mopish argument I abhor flying on men in stead of matter To this I will speake and then they that will be deceived let them be deceived First you * Doctrines and practises prove men good not men doctrines and practises good dub such a number of men and people Saints most reformed learned no way inferiour to the learnedst and best among the five Ministers as if you knew perfectly all mens spirits mens lives in all places in the world and the five Ministers parts c. intus incute Then secondly as before you came what R. Reverend and most Reverend I desire to speake it no other way then with a Christian griefe and anger against such Sophismes so now you Cant to us as it were the Popish Prelaticall Letanie and Te Deum As if by the temptations and fastings by the passions by the deaths and burialls of suffering Christians The noble army of Martyrs praising the holy Church throughout all the world acknowledging you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces or topick arguments that may are turned every way and used by all sorts good and bad for their owne waies 1. Men living in a notorious sinne of grosse usury unjust enclosures monopolizing c. First They will tell you of severall Ministers c. very holy men and then secondly They will tell you that those Ministers doe approve of those things 2. The Malignants now cry that so many good Lords so many Parliament men most of two Kingdomes are for the King Ergo the King doth well beleeve it who so will The Papists proclaime that they have pluralitie of voyces Martyrs c. Ergo they are in the right So the Prelacie tell us that of Bishops were many Martyrs to which Smectymnuus answers by them was composed the Liturgie and they have a thousand for one of them so they had formerly and most of the learned Doctors c. Scholars Divines and Lawyers were for them therefore they were in the right Then some of our respected brethren of the reputed godly Non-Conformists come in a title
Consideration saith That the five Ministers do blame all Protestant Churches as not having the power of godliness and the profession thereof with difference from carnall and formall Christians advanced and held forth among them as among you which is commonly thought to be particularly intended against the Scots M. S. Sure it is no otherwise commonly thought to be particularly intended against the Scots and generally to blame all Protestant Churches then in or by your common sense deriving species vain seemings to your phantasie from your outward senses an evill eye ill affected For the Apologie calls our dear brethren the Scots the more reformed Churches And for the words all and among you whereby you would present them setting themselves as an opposite member of distinction to all Protestant Churches and blaming them all as undistinguished from carnall and formall Christians in comparison of them and their five Churches the words all and you are forged and foysted in by your self and so must go for very falshoods charged upon them Apol. p. 4. The words of the Apologie are 1. That they and many others had but observed touching the non-advance of the power of godliness c. among some what themselves had generally acknowledged The five Ministers do not charge it but repeat it as confessed by themselves 2. It is not said it was confessed and they observed there was no power of godliness but is was not advanced 3. Nor is it said it was not advanced but not advanced as in this our Island This Island being a common phrase yea and your phrase too in the title of your Book to signifie Scotland and England both And then where is that particular intendment against Scotland or the five Ministers laying their Churches in the ballance against other Churches Fourthly and lastly they speake but indefinitely in a contingent matter and therefore can bee construed but of some particulars and therefore did not ayme at all You know how highly they esteeme of New-England and therefore that is not excluded from the advance of the power of goâ—linesse as in this Island of great Britaine English and Scots are included However as no man that is a knowing man either by hearsay or travell over the next Sea will accuse Scotland as most carnall and formall it were well for the world if in that c. others had not farre exceeded them so none of us except Pharisees will excuse our Nations of remisnesse in advancing the power of godlinesse in apparent view above carnalitie and formalitie You see by our answer to the Apologie that not that Apologie but your will caused you to speake that which is not by wise men once to bee mentioned at this time as if the Apologists intended to say any the least thing to grieve our brethren the Scots A. S. his seventh Consideration for the sixth is non-sense unlesse we put the interrogatorie point at Anabaptists and so A. S. to take unto him and them hee ranks himselfe with all calling them us I say to take to him and them the Brownists and Anabaptists to be of his partie Reader view his sixth Consideration whether you can make sense of it I cannot nor any thing of consequence therefore answer not unto it his seventh Consideration I say interrogates thus Many are desirous to know whether this Apologeticall Narration published by you five alone be in the name of your five alone or of all those also or a part of those whom ye pretend to hold your tenets if in the name of you five onely whether ye five can arrogate a power unto you selves to maintaine these tenets as the constant opinion of all your Churches having no generall confession of their faith thereabouts If in the name of all the rest we desire you would shew your Commission from all your Churches c. M. S. Good Reader doe but turne about these interrogatories and put them to A. S. and put A. S. in stead of the five Ministers and you may kill Goliah with his owne sword if five Ministers have arrogated in the Apol. one A. S. much more in his Reply If A. S. doth not like the conversion we answer positively 1. It 's no arrogating for any Christian upon just occasion to make his confession of faith 2. The confession of faith in doctrine that is in all the best reformed Churches is theirs For one touching pure Discipline it was not found in Scotland whiles the tyrannie of the Bishops prevailed Whiles things are in fieri a wise man will not expect them in facto esse Faith may bee when confession dares not appeare A. S. is angry with that confession of faith in the Apologie and hath opened the mouthes of many others as we heare ready to barke too at it they doe but stay their turnes why then doth he call for more confession 3. The godly learned Fathers Tertullian Justin Martyr c. produced no authority from men to Apologize for the truth the Scripture they Apologized for bore them out 4. The Parliament allow the five Ministers more viz. to shew their reasons therefore the lesse to shew their opinion 5. A thousand and a thousand good Christians were glad to heare how the five Ministers dissented from the rigid Separation and closed with the best reformed Churches the sole businesse of the Apologie in effect and thought that no good Protestants would have beene sorry for them A. S. His eight Consid interrogates the five Ministers thus Whether yee desire a toleration for you five alone in your marke your Religion for all the rest Item if a toleration in publick in erecting of Churches apart or to live quietly without troubling of the State As for the last appearingly ye may have it unsought But for the rest the Parliament is wise enough and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God M. S. An Apologie for the Apologists Church-way Toleration properly so called is saith learned Capel of things unlawfull His words are The Law I know permitted usury to the Jewes to the stranger what of that It followes the rather yet it is of it selfe a sinne because permission is of sinnes not of duties Cap. Tempt of Vsury We are not friend A.S. come to that yet To yeeld the one or beg the other Wee challenge it as your duty that are Protestants to allow us our liberty that are Protestants and hold with you in Doctrine and Discipline also in substance the difference being an accident 1. The quantitie you would have it extended to Colloquies provinciall Classes c. over every Church which appeares not in Scripture either name or thing Wee would have it bounded within every particular Church made up to competent hundreds with a sufficiencie of Church Officers for parts and number And 2. Necessity of constraint for in appeales you would cite and constraine men to appeare before the said Colloquies Classes c. For which there is not the least in the Scriptures we would
up Josh 22.11 Negatively the outward act either of speaking such evill opinions or doing such evill facts may be restrained and yet no violence done to the conscience to act contrary to it's inward dictates and perswasion being not yet convinced they are evill This being only a suspension and intermission of the outward man from acting towards others not a coaction or subversion of the inward acts of judgement and understanding in himself And so Jewes or c. may be permitted among Christians so as they do not manifest their errors and defiance against the fundamentall truths that so they may hear and believe and be converted or how else shall they be won to the truth and the promise of God fulfilled touching their call 2. The spreading and practising of opinions that apparently tend to Libertine-licencious ungodliness ought not quietly to be permitted They cannot be suffered but with sinne and reproof from Christ to the sufferers of them Rev. 2. v. 14. to v. 21. where two Churches viz. Pergamos and Thyatirâ— are charged with sinne and reproved by Christ for having among them and suffering Balaamiues Nicolaitans and Jezabellians to vent such opinions viz. 1. That under pretence of liberty and charity wives were to be common 2. Vnder pretence of avoiding scandals and perils it was lawfull for Christians to be present at the the sacred things Idolatries and joyiall banquettings of Pagans Vâ—de Port. in 2 Revel as things indifferent These in the Churches ought to have been excommunicated if refractory out of the Churches These not of any Church if they will not be convinced by conference with the Churches ought to be restrained from their evill practises by the Magistrate according to the examples of the pious Kings reforming abuses upon the ground of Moses penning of politiqâ—e laws to punish them that could not be accounted meet members of a Church for their lewd lives 3. For those opinions that are neither against fundamentals nor tend to licenciousness but stâ—ive to beat out truths thereby to creep closer to the rule to walk more evenly in the path both of Doctrine and Discipline and will in both by a strict bond amongst themselves walk as exactly as by any power Ecclesiastical without them set above them a their own wilâ— shall be in stead of others lawes I say such opinions are not to be restrained either from all divulging or practising that wee can finde by any Scripture We wave the question now Which is the only true form of Discipline and put the case in generall What opinions and practices that are conscienciously taken up ought to be left unrestrained To which our answer is that this sort here are they or else how shall there be a trying all things a trying of the spirits a discovery of new light and present truths prophesied to be revealed in their severall periods of times If any be contrary-minded we shall be glad to hear their grounds till they produce those and make them clear to the Churches wee ask our due a quiet permission to injoy that liberty which Christ hath bought and the Gospel brought and not to be jeered by any A. S. as here who tells the five Ministers that to live quietly without troubling the State they may have it appearingly unsought Let the world judge whether here be not a saucy jeer both in matter and form of speech I would A. S. had made use of that toleration and then he had not so intolerably troubled a Kingdome Or else if he had no stomack at first to be quiet if for some days he had but had somewhat appearingly allowed him to bite upon somewhat appearingly to quench his thirst he would have had a stomack rather to eat and drink then bite and jeere He is so passionate that hee doth not remember what he says in one page so as it may be reconciled to another Here he saith the Parliament is wise enough and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God you may perceive his meaning by reading his Interrogatory yet in his Annotation upon the inscript of the Apologie pag. 5. He supposeth that the Parliament should arrogate if it should take upon it any directive power in matters of Religion If he hath any Scholastick quillet to reconcile this within himself it is more then the common people and weak brethren he writes to know of M. S. Note that A. S. bath one Consideration more But were it not that it it did answer it self I should have been too weary of his former inconsiderate considerations to have staid here being eager to come to his book 1. He saith that they ayme at separation he meanes the five Ministers though they disclaime it in their Apologie unlesse to separate as our brethren the Scots did from Prelaticall coaction should tolerate some small pretended defects they are but pretended yet he saith not approved by those from whom they desire to separate 2. He saith the Church from which the five Ministers would separate testifies a great desire to reforme defects yet those defects saith he are but pretended to be in it 3. Hee thinkes that the five Ministers should doe better to stay in the Church to reforme abuses then by separation to let the Church perish in abuses Now he supposeth destroying abuses and would have the five Ministers stay to helpe reforme yet he is angry with their Apologie that doth but sigh forth an intimation of neede of reformation And so angry that he would as ye heard in his second consideration it s so long since that he hath forgotten it have the five Ministers quit the Assembly A. S. his Annotations upon the inscription of the Apologists Narration M.S. If I thought A.S. had any skill in Physick I would aske him whether by Annotations he meanes as the Physitians speake Annotationes incompressas becticarum febrium indicia violent annotations are sigâ—es of an hectick feaver in his vitall parts A. S. All Apologies suppose some accusation which here appeares none M. S. Not to meddle with your Engâ—ish which is scarse grammaticall you are intreated to speake true Doth not the Apologie begin and end with sad complaints Remember our answer to your fourth Consideration A. S. If intended for an Answer to that which hath been written against your opinions it comes very short weake and slender M. S. Why then would you fight with a fly The Mouse told the Elephant that he would never get honour in killing a silly Mouse Why did you bestow so much Oratorie and Logicke to clap it and fisticuffe it A. S. Neither is it a meere Apologeticall Narration but also a grievous accusation against all our Churches as destitute of the power of godlinesse M. S. This indeede is a false accusation as we have cleered it in our Answer to your fiâ—t Consideration A. S. The Apologie saith humbly submitted c. So humbly submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament as if they submit not themselves to your
desires c. for any thing I can see yee seem no wayes minded to submit your selves to theirs M. S. I am sorry your eyes should be so dim or your selfe so to doat All indifferent men can see in the Apologie abundance of propensitie to submit to them according to truth farre more then there is in one A. S. to submit to five Ministers whose holinesse you admire and whose learning you extoll A. S. You being Divines ye should rather first have consulted with the Assembly of Divines your brethren then so ex abrupto gone to the Civill Magistrate that arrogates not to himselfe any directive power in matters of Religion this is more convenient to the spirit and power of godlinesse that the spirit of the Prophets in such matters should be subject to the Prophets then unto the spirit of the Civill Magistrate M. S. Marke how this fellow A. S. 1. supposeth it arrogancie in the Parliament to have any directive power in matters of Religion in case the Assembly which God forbid should mistake Surely by this bold expression he would not have the Parliament judge of the reasons of the Assembly in case of dissent Least of all doth A. S. consider that the Parliament are Members of many excellent Churches That they laid downe the Common Prayer book in their houses before some Presbyterians could see reason to doe so That the Parliament so looked on the Assembly chosen by them as not to take things meerely upon trust but see with their owne eyes 2. He dreamingly supposeth that either our Assembly is like the Assembly of Scotland for breadth and strength or else hee takes them for a Church and in the act of prophesying which last I wonder A. S. being a rank Presbyterian should in the least allow of and call the five Ministers to the rule thereof 3. A. S. supposeth that it is lesse convenient to the power of godliness for the wronged five Ministers to appeale to the Civill Magistrate in Parliament 4. A. S. supposeth that because the Parliament have chosen the Assembly that therefore some men in some cases at least should wave the Parliament and goe to the Assembly This is A. S. his fine intimation prompted to all scandalous and false teaching erroneous Ministers to take up and learne in their cases relating to Religion to wave the Parliament and to goe to the Assembly 5. A. S. supposeth that the Assembly would bee so unwise see what a silly fellow A. S. is as to goe beyond their Ordinance to judge one anther When as they will take upon them no such thing not so much as to cast out or take in one member without the Parliament much lesse will they judge persons that shall wrong the five Ministers that are not of the Assembly The rest of his Annotations on the Inscription are but meare paper blots and therefore I omit them A Preface to the READER by way of Introduction to the insuing part of the Discourse which respecteth the Book it self READER HAving diligently perused the Cacologeticall or rough commentaries of A. S. upon the smooth Apologeticall Narration of the five Ministers I finde the greatest difficulty that hee is like to encounter who by a sober Answer shall desire to make the world amends for that injury which that writing hath done it is this how to make his answer soft ' enough For the truth is that here is much more anger or passion then reason to turn away and the Wiseman informs us that it is A soft Answer that turneth away wrath Prov. 15.1 If A. S. could be but redeemed out of the hand of that great jealousie wherewith he burns over his present apprehensions in re Presbyterali though all the arguments and strength of discourse wherewith his judgement is supported therein were left intire to him he would be found in a sufficient posture himself to do himself the right of giving satisfaction unto the world for the wrong he hath done it in that discourse and to make his atonement with his own pen. Though in many cases Anger is able to do more then reason can undo yet in matter of argument or writing the little finger of a mans reason is commonly able to pull down what the loins of his passion hath in a tumultuary way and method built up Any man that shall but diligently observe the endless variety and multitude of keen expostulations imperious interrogations the importune peremptory and insulting charges criminations and aspersions the wrigglings wringings wrestings wranglings the strainings stretchings stingings stinglings the captious crooked and cross-grain'd Interpretations of things wherewith that piece is farced in an unreasonable proportion to the bulk of it cannot lightly but conclude that Indignation was the chief Oracle consulted with about the framing of it But because I would willingly decline all occasions of heat and recrimination as far as a sober and just vindication not so much of the persons as of the cause so evill-intreated therein will bear I shall chiefly confer with A. S. about his Reals and leave men of common civility to determine and judge of his personalls unless possibly somewhat in this kinde shall now and then occasionally fall in I make no question but that the Apologists will be well able to bear it that the cause which they maintain should have the preeminence of their persons in point of defence nor are they so scanted in the consciousness of their own worth and innocence but that they are very well able to be out and bear the want of so much of their reputation for a time as the Observations and Annotations of I know not who have unjustly taken from them especially in case they shall see it bestowed by their friends upon the accommodation of that honourable cause wherein they are ingaged and declared Since the former impression of this Discourse I perceive there is yet more anger and indignation broke forth into the world against that harmless gall-less and Dove-like Apologeticall Narration concerning which that may be truly said though in a different sense which Ausonius said of none of the worst Emperours in his Epitaph Marcus Antonius Auson de duodecim Caesaribus c. Hoc solo Patriae quòd genuit nocuit All the harm it hath done to the World or its Country only is this it hath begotten and that not in its own likeness children of sweet sober and temperate spirits Aelian lib. 1. cap. 29. but rough blustering Borean Observations and Annotations ghastly Anatomies with some such other Heterogeneall fiery impressions Aelian makes report of a strange prodigie once happening in a Grecian Island viz. That a Sheep brought forth a Lion This Lion brought forth with this remarkable and eminent contrariety to the course of nature presag'd as the same Author relateth tyrannie I had much rather be a benefactor to the world by the communication of my hopes to it when I have any that may befriend it then to draw
and vent them privatly and amongst persons that have neither learning nor abilities in any kind to encounter or oppose them this is another hopefull signe that the dayes of a generall accommodation in matters of religion are comming upon the world The reason of this is plain because till truth reigne among the Saints Peace is not like to reigne the reason whereof hath been already given nor will Truth ever reigne like unto herself till all her enemies I mean errors and misprisions in matters of Religion be subdued and brought under her feet Nor is there any likelihood in a way of reason or ordinary providence that such enemies of the truth should ever be subbued til they come to look those sons of Truth in the face who are anointed by God with a spirit of wisdome and understanding for the confutation and utter abolishment of them Doubtlesse one main reason why errours and fond and foul opinions do still propagate prevail with so high an hand amongst us is because these Ministers and Teachers are suffered to have none other vent for them but only amongst people that are children in understanding and not furnished with strength of knowledge or parts of learning to withstand them The common proverb hath somwhat in it to this purpose Inter eaecos etiam luscus potest regnaâ—e A man with one eye will make a goodly King over those that are blind Reader the Preface hath done with thee and recommends thee to the Booke where it wisheth a happy greeting between thy judgment and the truth Chap. 1. Concerning the directive pâ—wer in mâ—tters Ecclesiasticall and which concern Religion whether how or in what sense it may be conceived to reside in the civill Magistrate Synods or other men Sect. 1. A. S. Pag. 5. hath this left-handed expression concerning the civill Magistrate That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion The Reader must do hâ—m a courtesie in finding him out a very soft sense for the word arrogate otherwise he will be found in a misprision of a foul insinuation against the Civill Magistrate as viz. that he arrogates i. in the ordinary construction of the word proudly assumes to himself when he claims or exerciseth that executive coercive externall power in and about matters of Religion which yet A. S. himself in the very next page knowing on which side to butter his owne bread ascribes unto him For as he that should say of A. S. by way of commendation that he never corrupted a matron or woman in marriage should yet hereby reslect a shrewd suspition upon him that his innocency in this kind could not so well be avouched in respect of Virgins or others of that sex out of matrimoniall relation in like maner A. S. himself intending an honorable purgation or vindicatioÌ„ of the civil Magistrate in these words That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion doth he not by the same rule of Antithetical relation or implication imply that he doth arrogate another power which stands in a Relative opposition to it which according to his own distribution is an executive coercitive external power in thout matters of religion but I marvel that the man should here so cleanly wipe the civil Magistrate of a di ective power in matters of Religion when as but a few pages before in his 8. Observ he had pleaded wisdome enough in the Parliament to know what is convenient for the Church of God If the Parliament be wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church I know no reason why that Directive power here spoken of should be derogated or taken from them especially by those who it is much to be feared are much straitned in respect of a spirit of that wisedome themselves Surely A. S. in saying that the Parliament is wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church hath sifted the Synod or Assembly with a sieve of vanity and broke the head of the necessity thereof so is guilty of a far higher misdemeanour against it then the Apologists are in any thing that they have done or said yea or then himself layeth to their charge which yet is his rod of scorpions to scourge them from place to place Turpe est Doctori cum culpa redarguit ipsum Sect. 2. But let us consider a little more narrowly whether A. S. hath quited himself like a Doctor of the Chaire in stripping the civill Magistrate of a Directive power in matters of Religion and putting on him in stead thereof the purple robe of an executive coercitive and externall power only pag. 6. 1. By such an umpirage and decision as this between the civill Magistrate and himself with his fellow Presbyters hath he not made the one Iudex and the other Carnifex the one must give the sentence the other must do the execution The Civil Magistrate is much beholding to the Presbyter for giving of him a consecrated sword to fight the Presbyterian battells and for perswading him to pull out his own eys upon this presumption that he shall see better with his I perceive Presbyterie is policy in the highest and seeks to put the Magistrate between it self and the envie and discontent of the people and yet nevertheless hopes to gain from the hand of the Magistrate such an interpretation of this practice as thereby to be esteemed the best and faithfullest friend it hath in all the world This cunning of the spirit we now speak of puts me in minde of the Ape that took the Spaniels foot to pull the Chess-nut out of the fire Surely the frame and constitution of Presbyterie is exactly calculated for the meridian of this present world but wâ—ether it will indifferently serve for that which is to come totus dubito I am in doubt all over And indeed A. S. himself is somwhat ingenuous in acknowledging that this government hath litle or no relation unto or compliance with the world which is to come professing p. 13. the externall peace of the Church to be the adaequate end thereof 2. I would gladly be informed whether A. S. thinks it reasonable Sect. 3. meet or Christian that the civill Magistrate should immediately hand over head without distinction without searching for his owne satisfaction into the equitablenesse and lawfulnesse of what a Presbyterie or Synod shall commend unto him for execution interesse himselfe in the execution of whatsoever shall be so recommended and presented unto him I presume A. S. will not arrogate unto himselfe nor to his Assembly an infallibilitie though in some places I find him very loath to abate this in the reckoning if it would be allowed and the truth is that the whole fabrique well-nigh of his discourse to make it rationall and any thing to purpose requires such a supposition for the bottom and foundation of it as this Yet pag. 8. he condescendeth so low as to number himselfe amongst those who
Where there is no Superiour or Inferiour there can be no obedience or disobedience Non buc non illuc exemplo nubis aquosae 2. If the civill Magistrate hath power to command the Church to revise her judgment when she judgeth any thing amisse Sect. 7. surely he hath power to examine and judge of her proceedings whether they be regular equall and just or no except you will say that he comes to the knowledge of your itregular and undue proceedings in your Presbyteries by immediate revelation Suppose either the one or the other what reason have you to deny him part and fellowship with you in that Directive power in matters of Religion which you ingrosse and appropriate to your selves as we have formerly seen 3. If so then your Presbyteriall Assembly or judging Church may determine and judge amisse And if so 1. how dare yee compell or make the people under your government to sweare obedience or subjection unto your orders which yet by your own confession pag. 42 ordinarily you doe 2. Why are you not satisfied with that subjection to your Presbyteriall Decisions which pleadeth no exemption but only in the case of non-satisfaction about the lawfulnesse or truth of them You give men a good foundation a liberty to beleeve that you may erre but you will not suffer them to build upon it to refuse you when they think in their souls and consciences that that you doe erre They that will separate between such premisses and such conclusions will hardly make good Christians themselves or suffer others so to be And if you be but ingenuously willing to goe along with this your own principle That you may erre as farre as it would gladly lead you me thinks I durst undertake that the Apologists and you shall comprimize before to morrow next 4. And lastly if parties may have cause to be offended Sect. 8. and not onely pretend to be offended as A. S. would mince it with the Church as out of all question they may if the Church may judge amisse then have they power to judge of their actions as well as they of theirs No man is justifiable in his complaint or offence taking but he that hath a power to examine and judge of that which gives the cause or ministers the occasion of the offence And if a fingle partie which is no Presbyter or Prophet in your sense hath a lawfull power to examine and judge of the acts and orders of a Presbyteriall or Propheticall Assembly and may possibly by means of such an examination take them tardie do not so far magnifie the spirits of your Prophets against the spirits of our Saints as to think these good for nothing but to swear homage and vassalage unto them But. A. S. Sect. 9. suâ—elâ— pleaseth himselfe highly with a paracell of distinctions wchâ—e presents us within the prementioned Description and hopes perhaps to make an atonement with them for his confusion orâ—er wise First He distinguisheth of that executive coercive power where with hâ— invests the civill Magistrate as not being in or intrinsecalâ— unto the Church hus ex ernall and about the Church Secondly he distinguisheth the subject capable of this power the civill Magistrate into truly Christian and not truly Christian Thirdly upon this distinction he builds a third distinction concerning the manner of the competencie of this power to the one kind of subject and the other telling us that this power or authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jâ—re in re to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato and jure in rem onely till they become true Christians The man you see hath much adoe to find Sect. 10. or come at that power where with he would so fain gratifie the civill Magistrate in matters of Religion He adjures three unclean spirits of distinctions to tell him what and where it is and yet they doe but peep and mutter in their answer and make no man the wiser by it Here he seeks for the coercive power of the civill Magistratre in matters of Religion in the same black sea of darknesse and confusion wherein he seekes and would make the world beleeve he finds the Presbyterian government afterwards But if the one and the other be cloz'd up in such an ammunition of rockes of distinctions as A. S. represents them in his story certainly they are inaccessible to the judgements and consciences of persons of mean capacity and much more inaccessible to the judgments and consciences of more understanding and considering men The very darknesse it selfe of the distinctions which he is necessitated to use to make his way to come at the one and at the other is a light sufficient to discover that neither the one nor the other is any where to be found within the territories either of reason or of truth But let us see the distinctions play a little before us for their Masters credit For the first The Magistrates power saith he viz. in matters of Religion for so he must necessarily be understood by the Antithesis in the former clause or member of this Distinction where he denies a Directive power unto him in matters of Religion is not in or intrinsecall to the Church but extrinsecall and about the Church Is it in i. intrinsecall to matters of Religion and but extrinsecall in respect of the Church So then it seems A. S. his Presbyteriall Church is somewhat more inward intimate and intrinsecall then the religion of this Church otherwise how should the power of the Magistrate penetrate into the Religion thereof and yet not reach into but onely unto the Church it selfe By this distinction he hath utterly disgrac'd his Presbyteriall Government by making the Churches under it more internall and inward then the religion that is to be found in them If the Apologists had but whispered one tittle of such a saying though at never such a distance it had been enough to have produced seven reasons more at least against their toleration then are yet levied or brought forth into the world But 2ly though you seem to deale very bountifully with the Magistrate in giving him a power extrinsecall and about the Church Sect. 11. and to content your selfe and your compresbyters with an intrinsecall power onely yet by somewhat that hath been lately printed it appeares that you mean to eate at the same Table with him which you pretend to spread for him alone For hath not the presse very lately been delivered of this peece of Presbytery Reformation clearned p. 23. that the Clafficall Presbytery hath the authoritative power of Citation just as the Bishops had And is not such a power externall and which is not in but about the Churches For if a Classis shall cite or excommunicate a member of a Church against the judgement and consent of the Elders of that Church let all the world judge whether that be not an act of externall power
without the Church If it be replied No because that Church did implicitly consent in yeelding their Elders for members of that Presbytery We reply That if either your publick Law constrains that Church upon penalty Invitum dicitur quod quis vel per ignorantiam admittit Arist Eth. l. 3. c. 1. Kecker Praecog Syst Eth. against their light to suffer their Elders to fit in the Classicall Presbytery then that Church doth not freely consent or if that Church without constraint doth consent for want of light as it must be supposed if a Classis upon debate be found to be besides the word this ignorant act of that Church is an unwilling or involuntary act and so no free consent And so the Classis according to A. S. his distinction is like a Magistrate which is a Bishop without and about that Church But good A. S. we know it is an easie matter to distinguish the Magistrate into such an executive coercitive externall power as you speake of but we would fain see you demonstrate him into it and then A. S. and M. S. should be no more two but one S. We know not how to transform distinctions into demonstrations His second Distinction is of the Subject of this power the Magistrate whom he makes two-fold truly Christian and not truly Christian But 1. I would faine know by what Touchstone A. S. will try his gold in this case I mean judge of the truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate It appeares from page 50. of his discourse that he hath no mind to grant his truth of Christianity unto a Magistrate that is either Lutheran Anabaptist Socinian or Papist Any of these misprisions in Christianity are as sufficient in A. S. his judgement as in ours to keep the sword of that power we speake of out of the Magistrates hand And as for a Magistrate whose judgement shall be infected perfected reason and truth would say with Apologisme or the great hatred of his soule independencie I make no question but he in the Comique terme should bee exclusissimus from this capacitie or right above all the rest But let us goe on with the man in the termes of his own addresse to the Apologists Sect. 13. in the same place If he saith that by a Magistrate truly Christian he understand an orthodox Magistrate what if he had one or two errors would he yet permit him to be orthodox and truly Christian or not Till A. S. here specifies Seermones generales non movent his own shall make use of my reason to beleeve that by a Magistrate truly Christian A. S. onely mean a Magistrate who in his judgement is Presbyteriall and that this qualification of Presbyterialisme and truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate are against all contradictions and counter-poysings whatsoever termini aequipollentes in his Logique And if this be his meaning the king to be sure hath none of his power as yet in actu exercito and jure in re nor hath the Parliament at least for ought A. S. or the kingdom knoweth any whit more of it then the King And whatsoever it hath done hitherto by any executive coercive externall power about the Church or Church-affairs in which kinde it hath done very much depends as touching the validity and justifiableness of it upon this supposition that it Presbyterializeth Whence it followeth that he that cannot or doth not believe that the Parliament is of a Classique inclination cannot with the leave of A. S. his distinction judge them to have done lawfully or warrantably any thing that they have done hitherto about or for the Church The truth is that till A. S. will please to define what manner of Magistrate hee must be that shall pass the test of his distinction for truly Christian wee are constrained to suspend our bounty in conferring that executive coercive externall power about the Church upon any man Nor do I make much question but that wee shall have twenty Distinctions more before we shall obtain that Definition But of all the three distinctions here upon the stage Sect. 14. the best dancer is yet behind This Power or Authority saith he belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re it 's very long me thinks ere wee hear to whom it belongs to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato jure in rem only untill they become truly Christian 1. Though I have many times heard of the distinction in actu exercito in actu signato yet I never heard of any thing belonging to a person in actu exercito but that belonged to him and that per prius in actu signato Hee to whom the principle or power of acting doth not belong cannot stand ingaged for the exercise or acting of such a power 2. My soul longs for the Summer fruit of a good reason from A. S. Sect. 15. why any power about the Church and for the Church should not belong actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re and with as many other proper unproper necessary unnecessary sober ridiculous expressions as he pleaseth as well to a Magistrate not yet truly Christian as to him that is such Hath not an Heathen or Heterodox Magistrate a lawfulness of power to do presently this day this hour to morrow and so forth toties quoties as much good to and for the Church or Churches of Christ within his jurisdiction or dominion as he could have if he were truly Christian Do acts of justice bounty grace towards the Churches of Christ any whit more defile a Magistrate how far from truly Christian soever then acts of the same nature performed unto his other subjects The Kings and those that were in authority in Pauls dayes were generally all the kings without exception far from being truly Christian and yet was it not lawfull for them to interpose with their Authority or Power that the Churches of Christ in their dominions might lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty If not then was that exhortation of his 1 Tim. 2.2 to be laid up in Lavender for some hundreds of yeers after it was given or else the benefit and blessing the obtaining whereof by prayer is made the ground of the exhortation must have been made over in the intentions of those that had so prayed unto their posterities after many generations A. S. may choose which of the two hee will believe for my part I shall not be his corrivall in either Yee have heard A. S. his Distinctions for a coercive power about the Church in a Civill Magistrate Demonstrationes autem ubi But where are his proofs Quas non invenio usquam esse puto nusquam What I finde not any where I believe to be no where I have searched Sect. 16. and that somewhat narrowly throughout the whole volume of his Discourse to finde something that with any indulgence of imagination might be
born in hand by those with whose eys hee sees in such cases are schismaticall erroneous and contrary unto God may very possibly be the ways of God and truths of God such mens judgements of them notwithstanding For first the judgements of these men are not Apostolicall or infallible A. S. himself who makes his demands for Presbyterian soveraignty as high as another yet dares not lay claim to this crown Therefore it 's possible for them to be in a misprision about some Question or controversall point in Religion Secondly frequent experience shews that a minor part yea a party for number inconsiderable of godly persons in a Church or State may have the minde of God and of Christ among them in some particulars before the generality or major part of this Church comes to be inlightened or interessed in it For a proofe whereof ad hominem we need go no further then to that party of godly persons in the Land who stood up in Queen Elizabeths King James his days for Presbyteriall Government when as the far greater part both of Magistrates and Ministers in the Kingdome were in their judgements opposite hereunto and wholly Episcopall So that had that Queen or King or any Parliament under them gone about to suppress that party which yet was then look'd upon as schismaticall factious and erroneous they had according to A.S. his judgement touching the judgement of those men fought against God and sought to pluck up that which he hath planted Yea thirdly and lastly it seldome or never falls out that any truth which hath for a long time been under hatches and unknown to the genâ—rality of Ministers and other learned men in a Church or State hath been at the first and on the sudden discovered by God either unto the generality or major part of them but unto some few only yea and sometimes but unto one for a season by and from whom he is pleased to propagate the light and knowledge of it unto more afterwards If then the Magistrate should rise up to suppress this truth or those that hold it forth unto the world because it hath few friends and many enemies amongst the Masters in his Israel and is generally look'd upon as a schismaticall and erroneous opinion should he not in Gamaliel's sense fight against God The housholder in the Parable forbad the plucking up of the Tares out of his field for fear of plucking up the Wheat with them Matth. 13.29 7. That power which was never attributed to the civill Magistrate Sect. 34. by any Christians but only by those that had very good assurance that it should be used for them and on their side is not like to be a power appertaining to them by divine right or conferr'd upon them by God The reason of this Proposition is because it is no wayes credible that within the compass of so many ages as are by-gone no one man of that conscientious generation of Saints which hath been wont so frequently to deny it self even unto death should acknowledge such a power in the civill Magistrate as did by divine right belong unto him only because such an acknowledgement was like to make against himself Therefore I assume But that coercive power in matters of Religion for the suppressing of errours schismes heresies c. was never attributed to the civill Magistrate by any Christian See for the further proof of the minor Proposition Mr Io. Robinsons Essayes p. 49.50 c. but only by those that were very confident that it would be used for their turns and to effect their desires Ergo A. S. himself is wary and tender above measure in conferring it upon him distinguishing once and again and the third time also upon it as wee heard befâ—re he dares let him have it yea and in the close doth as much in effect as tell him that except hee be Presbyterian right down and will accommodate him and his party with it he ought not to claim it 8. That power which in the exercise of it directly tends to prevent Sect. 35. hinder or suppress the growth and increase of the light of the knowledge of God and Jesus Christ in a Church or State and the Reformation of such things whether in Doctrine or Discipline as are unwarrantable therein is not questionless of any Divine right or Institution If A. S. deny this Proposition at the perill of his modesty and reputation be it So then I assume But such a power in the civill Magistrate as we speak of directly tends to all the mischief and inconvenience mentioned Ergo The evidence of the assumption is this when men are obnoxious to the stroke of the civill power and in danger of suffering deeply from the Magistrate for any thing that they shall hold or practise in Religion contrary unto him it must needs be a great tentation and discouragement upon them from searching and Inquiring into the Scriptures after a more exact knowledge of the good and holy and perfect will of God in things because in case hee should discover any thing contrary to what the Magistrate professeth hee must run the hazard either of with-holding the truth hee so discovers in unrighteousness and so of having both God and his own conscience his enemy or else of having his bones broken by the iron rod of the civill Magistrate for mâ—king profession of any thing contrary to that which he professeth 9. That power which in the use of it plainly and palpably tends to the gratification of Satan Sect. 36. carnall and prophane men is not certainly derived from God To prove this Proposition would be but the lighting up of a torch to see the Sun I assume But that power in matters of Religion to crush schismes heresies c. which is by A. S. and many others pinn'd upon the Magistrates sleeve is a power of this tendencie and importance in the use of it Ergo. This latter Proposition shines clear enough with this light First a very great part if not far the greatest of those that are like to suffer by it are men of good conscience and truly fearing God This is manifest in the Apologists and men of their judgement whom A. S. himself over and over though condemning himself toties quoties acknowledgeth for very pious and godly men Nor is it like that ordinarily men of loose or no conscience should delight to swim against the streams either of greatness or plurality in matters of Religion Now then it cannot but be conceived to be matter of solemn gratification to Satan who is a murtherer â—nd blood enemy to the Saints to see them disgraced crushed troden and trampled upon especially by those whom God hath appointed to be their protectours and most of all that this grievous measure should be measured out unto them for the goodness of their consciences towards God Secondly It is the impatient and importune desire of all ignorant loose luke-warm and carnall professors to have
the Church but by expresse order and warrant from God in the Scriptures It is onely in God saith he pag. 48. who is a King in this spirituall Kingdome a Master in this House a Father in this Family who can give power therein unto any man we dare not be so bold c. and pag. 61. Veritie consisteth not in the middle of this or that which yee imagine but in a conformity of our conceptions with their object and due measure which in this matter is onely Gods word revealed in the Scriptures and according to this rule I take Presbyterian government rather c. And yet one more page 34. Combined Presbyteries qua tota sed non qua totaliter considerata i. no man can tell how or which way judge of points of doctrine and discipline already revealed in the holy Scriptures and give us new Ecclesiastical Laws of things indifferent and so teach and rule the Churches c. Come A.S. let you and I conferre lovingly of these affaires before we part 1. I wonder much that having two Nations at least Sect. 3. if not more in your own bowels such materiall differences as have been touched in your Presbyterian Tribe nay that having line against line page against page leafe against leafe in your own book you shou'd be no more compassionate towards your brethren the Apologists then to bebrand them with differences amongst themselves as you doe more then once and that with much bitternesse pag. 69. and elswhere Si variâsse vocas crimen variavimus ambo 2. The differences that are amongst the Apologists and men of their judgement Sect. 4. about the way of their government are nothing considerable in respect of yours They differ but in their haire and you in your heads They differ among themselves but as one starre dâ—ffereth from another you differ between your selves as much as heaven earth They all as one man unanimously affirm that their way of government is Canonicall and of Divine assertion you are divided abour the authority of your way some making it Canonicall others Apocryphall some fetching it from the starres others from the dust Hinccaput atque illinc humero ex utroque pependit By the way the ingenuous dissent of that party amongst you who cannot say that they see any lineament of Heaven in the face of your Government being yet wel-willers and friends of affections large enough unto it is unto me as little lesse then a demonstration as may be that your way is but from men and not from God For as the saying is Quid non sentit amor If there were any thing in the Scriptures that did but look merrily or cast a plausible glance upon your way would not they that are so entirely devoted both in their judgments and affections to it find it out yea and double and treble the sympathy and strength of it with their imaginations As it is the propertie of Love to cover a multitude of sinnes or trespasses that are Prov. 10.12 so is it a property likewise of the same affection to discover a multitude of pleasing accommodations which are not Besides it is somewhat more then a mote in the eye of your unitie that in some Churches of your Presbyteriall calculation particular or Parochial Senats or Consistories have power to suspend from their communion those that be members thereof yea also to excommunicate them c. This is your own bounteous acknowledgment p. 26. I thought that such a misdemeanour as this in the State Presbyterial had been of Classick vindication at the least 3. If Presbyterian government needeth no formall or expresse patterne from Christ Sect. 5. then either it hath none such from him or this patterne wheresoever it is found is but a superfluitie or impertinencie of Scripture But that there is nothing superfluous or impertinent in the Scriptures is a glory asserted unto them by the holy Ghost himselfe 2 Tim. 3.16 Aâ—l Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable c. Therefore by A. S. his own confession his government hath no formallor expresse pattern from Christ In one sense it may be granted that Presbyterian government needeth no formall nor yet materiall pattern from Christ viz in such a sense as it may truly be said that Castles in the aire need no reparation But 4. If your government needs no formall or expresse pattern from Christ Sect. 6. we would gladly know whether it needs any material or implicite pattern from him or what it needs from him whether something or nothing But if you understood or would please but to consider the necessities of it I verily beleeve you would confesse that it did stand in need of that formall and express pattern from him which you speak of You see that for want of such a pattern it drives but heavily Prov. 8.12 and is long in getting up into its throne it hath lost many a merry day already yet daily meets with such contestations oppositions contradictions from sober wise learned religious men that it is like to reigne but in the fire of contention and with the sorrow and sadnes of many such hearts as Christ would not have made sad And all this calamity befalls it for want of a formall and expresse pattern from Christ And yet hath it no need hereof Surely it is very magnanimous and high-spirited to be able to beare all this heavie pressure of misery upon it and yet professe that it stands in no need of that which would ease it 5. If it needs no formall express pattern from Christ Sect. 7. we would willingly be informed what pattern it is which you boast you can shew from the Law of Grace for it in the Old and New Testament We suppose that it stands in need of all that you can shew for it either from the Law of Nature or of Grace either from the Old Testament or from the New and much more You tell us you can shew pattern upon pattern but shew none Surely you would be thought to doe very nobly Posse nolle nobile You do not shew us but only tell us p. 41. that if we will we may see it in the ordinarie practice of the Church of the Jewes in the Old Testament It seems that sight you have of your Presbyteriall Government either in this practice of the Jewish Church or in any other passage or part of Scripture depends upon your wills you are willing to see it and therefore you see it Otherwise why should you tell us that we may see it if we will you are happy men who have your eyes dependant upon your wills and so can see what you please or have a mind to see Nobis non licet esse tam disertis our wills depend upon our eyes we dare not will any thing but what wee first see to be the will and mind of God It is no marvell that you cast it as a sore aspersion upon
you Brethren in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ that yee withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. and vers 14. If any man obey not this our saying in this letter note him and have no company with him that he may be ashamed Clearly implying that to with-draw communion and to deny Christian fellowship unto Christians walking inordinately is both a means of Divine institution and otherwise proper and commodious in it self to reclaim and bring them to Repentance There is the same reason of Churches in this behalf which there is of persons Churches being nothing else but persons embodied Secondly suppose there were no such sufficient or satisfactory remedy for the inconvenience mentioned in the way of the Apologists as A.S. conceives to be in his which yet there is as hath in part already and will afterwards further appear yet Lawyers have a saying that a mischief is better then an inconvenience A man had better run the hazard of a greater loss then expose himself to a daily wasting and consuming of his estate A man had better be wet through and through with a soaking showre once a yeer then be exposed in his house to continuall droppings all the yeer long The Delinquencie of whole Churches such I mean as is matter of publique scandall or offence to their neighbour Churches is not an every dayes case no more in the way of Congregationall men of Presbyteriall Government you acknowledge the rarity of it in your Government and we affirm it in ours Now then much better it is to want a remedy against such an evill which possibly may not fall out within an age though it be greater when it doth fall then it is to expose our selves to continuall droppings I mean to those daily inconveniences which wee lately shewed to be Incident to the Classique Government Thirdly they that implead the Congregationall way for being defective as touching the matter in hand seem to suppose that God hath â—ut a sufficiency of power inâ—o the hands of men to remedy all defects errours and miscarriagâ—s of men whatsoever Elâ—â— why should it be made matter of so deep a charge and challenge against the way of tâ—e Apologistâ— that it affords not a sufficient and satisfactory remedy either to prevent or heal all possible miscarriages in all churches I would willingly know in case your Church transcendent your supreme Session of Presbyters should miscarry and in your Doctrinall determinations give us bay stubble and wood in stead of silver gold and precious stones a misprision you know wel-neer as incident to such Assemblies yea and to those that are more generall and oecumeniall then so as obstinacy in errour is to particular Congregations what remedy the poor Saints and Churches of God under you have or can expect against such a mischiefe or what remedy you now have in the way of your government for the recovering of your selves out of such a snare more then what the Congregationall way affordeth for the reclaiming of particular Churches Nay the truth is your Government in such a case is at a greater loss in respect of any probable or hopefull remedy against such an evill which yet is an evill of a most dangerous consequence then the other way of Government is for the reduction of particular Churches That hath the remedy of God as hath been shewed though not the remedy of men and yet that remedy of God which it hath in appliable by men and those known who they are viz. the Churches of Christ neer adjoyning but if your great Ecclesiastique body be tainted or infected though never so dangerously Corpora morbis majora patent Sen. God must have mercy on you and that in a way somewhat at least more then ordinary if ever you be healed For that Directive power in matters of Religion which had you left it in other mens hands might in this case through the blessing of God have healed you being now only in your own hath not only occasioned that evill disease that is upon you but also leaves you helpless and cureless by other men A. S. makes the greatest part of his arguments against that way of Government which hee opposeth of what iffs I mean of loose and impertinent suppositions and cases that are not like to fall out till ursa major and ursa minor meet unto which kind of arguments every whit as much as enough hath been answered already but he shall shew himself a soveraign Benefactour indeed to the Presbyterian cause if he can find out a remedy satisfactory and sufficient against that sore evill we speak of incident to his Government in the case mentioned which is a case both of a far worse consequence then the obstinacy of a particular Church in some error and I fear of a far more frequent occurrence then the world is willing to take notice of Fourthly let us ponder a little how sufficient and satisfactorie that remedie against the evill now in consideration is which the Classique politie under the protection of A. S. his pen so much glorieth in let us compare the two remedies of the two corriving polities together as A. S. hath done after this manner But the Presbyteriall Government saith he p. 39. is subject to none of these inconveniences For the collective or combined eldership having an Authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves thereunto Every man knoweth their set times of meeting wherein sundrie matters are dispatched and all things carried by pluralitie of voyces without any schisme or separation Not to be troublesome to the man about his Grammaticals wherein hi pen slips oftner then Priscian will tolerate in such a piece because in these he opposeth nothing but a mans conceit either of overmuch scholarship or overmuch care in him Here is a remedie indeed against some inconveniences but whether the inconveniences be not much better then the remedie adhuc sub Judice lis est But what are the inconveniences The first is that Churches being equall in authoritie one cannot binde another to give any account in case of offence given Well what is the remedie for this in Classique constitution The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churches thereof are bound by Law and Covenant to submit themselves c. What is another inconvenience In case other churches were offended in the proceedings of a particular church they could not judge in it for then they should be both judge and partie in one cause c. Well what is the remedie in Presbyterian politie The combined Eldership having an authoritative power all men and Churchches c. What is a third inconvenience That Congregationall Government giveth no more power or authoritie to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker yea to the Hangman over a thousand c. What is the Presbyterian remedie for this The combined Eldership having an Authoritative power c.
The combined Eldership with their Authoritative power together with a Law or Covenant whereby all men and Churches under them are bound to submit unto them are as bars of iron and gates of brasse to keep out al those inconveniences irregularities defilements pollutions out of the Presbyterian Temple whereunto it seems the Congregationall temple for want of such stoure and tight provisions lies open But First what if your combined Eldership hath neither footing nor foundation in the Word of God It is not the serviceablenesse of it against a thousand such inconveniences as were mentioned that will justifie it Sauls offering sacrifice was a means to prevent the scattering of the people from him yet Samuel told him that he had done foolishly in it and it cost him his Kingdom 1 Sam. 13.9.13.14 So the putting forth of Vzzâ—h's hand to stay the Ark was a meanes to keepe it from being shaken but yet the doing of it cost him his life Peters valour and zeale in drawing his sword and laying about him was a likely meanes of rescuing his Master but the Lord Christ preferred the imminent danger of his life before such a rescue and check'd the sword that was drawne for him againe into the sheath That Law and constitution in the Papacie whereby all men all Churches thereof are bound to submit their judgements in matters of Faith to the decision of the Papall Chair is as soveraigne a remedie against all those inconveniences named as that for which Classique Authoritie is so much magnified by you and yet it is never the lesse abominable in the eyes both of God and men The Question is not which Government will serve most turnes but which is most agreeable to the will and Word of God If that of Presbyterie be defective this way as there is extreame cause to feare it is this defect cannot be recompenced or redeemed by any other commendation whatsoever Secondly neither can we with any tolerable satisfaction informe our selves out of all your discourse either what you meane by that Authoritative power which you claime to your combined Eldership nor yet how or by what or whose Authoritie they come to be invested with it As for the power sometimes you deny it to be Magisteriall or such which may not lawfully be declin'd when a man cannot submit unto it without disobedience to God otherwise you make it so irrefragably sacred as if it were no lesser sin then perjurie it selfe to detract it Again for the investiture of your Eldership with this power whether they arrogate it unto themselves and are their own carvers or whether the Civill State and Parliamentarie Law or whether the free and joynt consent of those over whom this power is exercised do conferre and derive it upon them you informe us not but count an ignoramus better then a verdict But till you do resolve us by what Authoritie or power this Authoritative power comes into the hand of your combined Eldership we shall thinke it safer to stand to the hazard and dammage of all the inconveniences spoken of then to subject to it Thirdly if the Law of the State be the first and most considerable band or tye upon men to submit unto the power of your combined Eddership as you seeme here to imply in saying that all men all Churches thereof are bound by Law c. then 1. you must acknowledge that the root and base of your Government is potestas secularis secular authoritie and then how is it Ecclesiastick or spirituall A man may as well bring a clean thing out of an unclean in Jobs expression as make a spirituall extraction out of a secular root Secondly it will rest upon you to prove that the Civill State hath a power to forme and fashion the government of the Churches of Christ Yea thirdly and lastly it will be demonstratively proved against you that you resolve the government of the Churches of Christ in the last resolution of it into the humors wills and pleasures of the world yea of the vilest and most unworthy of men But Fourthly and lastly the Authoritative power of your combined Eldership being granted unto you we doe not see how the inconveniences you find in the Congregationall way will bee much better solv'd in yours For first what if a particular Congregation under the jurisdiction of your Eldership reflecting upon the Oath or Covenant it hath taken for subjection thereunto as likewise upon all other engagements that way as unlawfull shall peremptorily refuse to stand to the awards or determinations of it what will you do in this case How will your combined Eldership remedy this inconvenience What will you excommunicate this Church The Apologists in their way do little lesse and that by a power farre lesse questionable then yours nay in your interpretation they doe every whit as much Or will you deliver them over Brachio secularie to be hamper'd and taught better then it seems you can teach them by prisons fines banishment c. O A. S. remember you tar'd the Apologists for comporting in a very small matter in comparison with the Arminians in case it had been true and will you comply with the Papists in a matter of this high nature Churches had need take heed how they chuse men for their Guardians that will so dispose of them if they please them not Besides you know what was said in the second chapter touching the power of the Magistrate in this case And what if in the Session of your combined Eldership there be no such thing as plurality of votes concerning excommunication of such a Church as it is very possible that in such a meeting the truth may find just as many friends as error hath and no more is not the remedy you spake of now in the dâ—st Again secondly to touch upon the second inconvenience mentioned when your combined Eldership proceeds against a particular Church amongst you upon offence taken is not this Eldership as well Party as Judâ—â— If you think you have every whit the better of it because your Eldership though it be both Party and Judge yet hath an authoritative power over those whom it judgeth I answer first that as our Saviour told Pilate He could have no power against him except it were given him from above no more can your Edership have over those whom it judgeth in this case Now how uncertain and faint the probabilities are that they have any power over them given them from above hath been formerly shewed at large And if that power which your Eldership claimeth and exerciseth over the Church arraigned be not from above then the Apologists remedy is farre better and safer then yours Secondly to hold and maintain that all those that have an Authoritative power over men may lawfully by vertue of such power be both parties and Judges is to exalt all manner of tyranny violence and oppression by a Law Upon such a supposition men invested with authority and power
whether in Church or State may be their own carvers and serve themselves of the estates liberties and lives of those that are under them how and when as oft as they list And why doe you not submit to the decisive judgment of the King in all controversies depending between you and him if that be your doctrine For the third inconvenience so called I shall be your debtour to tell me plainly and distinctly what power more your government giveth to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker or the Hangman over a thousand I doe not remember where either your selfe or any of your party have calculated the proportion but I well remember a saying in Charron That every humane proposition hath equall authoritie Tout proposition humane a autant d'autherite quel'autre si la raison n'on fait la d fference Charion de sagâ—sse Plus credendiâ— est assertioni alicujus simplicis non authoâ—izati excellenter in Scripturis eruditi quam declarationi Papae if reason make not the difference and another of Gerson much commended by Protestant Authors though the Author of it Pontificiall The saying of a simple man and no wayes authoriz'd if he be well seen in the Scriptures is rather to be beleeved then the Popes own determination But A. S. what makes you thinke for I can easily guesse what makes you say that the government of the Apologists gives no more power to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker or Hangman over a thousand Vbi uando quibus testibus did this government or any son it hath ever make any such comparison or so farre honour either your Tiâ—ker or Hungman as to make them quall in power to a thousand Churches And yet I suppose if a man should say that the dust in the ballance hath as much life in it as the Sunne it would be no disparagement to this excellent and glorious creature because the excellencie of it doth not stand in any degrees or superiority of life above any other creature but in the aboundance of light which it hath and the height of its situation and the service abtenesse of it to the world by means of both In like manner if it be supposed which I think upon what hath been delivered may very reasonably be supposed that the glory and excellencie of Churches doth not stand in any power or authority that one hath over another or many over one but in other farre more rich and holy and honourable endowments relations and qualifications it can be no prejudice or disparagement unto ten thousand of them to say they have no more authority over one then A. S. his Tinker or Hangman hath over them Therefore if A. S. his admired peece of Church-policie hath no greater commendation then to serve for preventing such Inconveniences as this the world needs make no great lamentation over it though it were in the condition of Rachels children Matth. 2.18 when she wept for them and would not be comforted Some other inconveniences there are wherein A. S. findes the Government which he opposeth tardie and thinkes he sets a crown of glory upon the head of his Presbytery in vindicating the innocencie of it in respect of such guilt But alas he washeth off this guilt with blood or with water fouler then it as hath been shewed and condemneth his government in that wherein he mainly alloweth it The guilt is innocencie in respect of the purgation There is one inconvenience formerly opened and insisted upon in this chapter very incident to Presbytery the conscience whereof me thinks should make all the sons of that way rather to cover and compassionate then to complain or cry out of any inconvenience they either see or rather think they see in another Chap. 5. Whether the Apologists and men of their judgement may lawfully and without danger or prejudice to the State be tolerated and whether A. S. his reasons to the contrarie be of sufficient weight to perswade either to the banishment crushing or suppressing of them in any kind HE that hath read the precedent part of this discourse and doth though but with the lowest degree of impartialitie consider what hath been argued between the two wayes Presbytery and Apologisme cannot lightly but mourne over the title of this chapter and think him to be a man of iron entrails that should give occasion to such a Question as is there propounded Suppose the opinion maintained in the latter part of the second Chapter were wav'd and such a coercive power in matters of Religion as A. S. contends for allowed in the Magistrates hand yet that any man should plead for the drawing of this sword against those men who first have such a considerable strength if not of evidence yet of reason for what they practise and professe secondly have a like if not a more considerable strength against that way of government which they cannot submit to Thirdly are by their fiercest adversaries and opposites themselves acknowledged ten times over for very pious godly and learned men Fourthly have been at least the generalitie of them and so continue men of the most affectionate and withall the most effectuall activitie and forwardnesse to promote the great cause of Religion Parliament and Kingdome Fifthly are as deep in or if you will as much out of their estates rateably for the support of this cause as any other sort of men whatsoever Sixthly have many of them such as were meet for such a service adventur'd their persons and lives in the face of the rage and furie of the common enemie continuing still in the same engagements Yea seventhly and lastly have some of them exposed themselves to more danger and harder termes from the adverse party then ordinary in case they should prevaile by a publick vindication of the cause of the Parliament in print from the Scriptures and that before any man of differing judgment from them in Church affairs appeared in the cause upon such termes that any man I say on this side of malignancie should consult the sorrow trouble disgrace suppression ruine of men so holy so harmlesse of such eminent desert in the cause of Religion State Kingdome me thinkes should exceed the line of humanity and be thought some inspiration or suggestion from the great enemy of mankind Neverthelesse if either God Reason the peace or safety of the Kingdome require the sorrows or sufferings of these men I make no question but they will be willing to dispense with all considerations whatsoever that stand up to plead their immunitie and will with Isaac patiently suffer themselves to be bound yea and to be offered up in sacrifice also if need be Onely their humble request and suit is that they may not be sacrificed upon the service of the ignorance vain surmises needlesse jealousies bitter suggestions whether of a few or of many Better a thousand times is it that such distempers as these though found in millions of men
that his butchery upon James pleased the people put forth his hand to take Peter also But is there nothing more in the Reason then this Truly if A. S. hides the treasure of his minde so deep another time digge for it who will for mee For this once I have taken pains to finde it and have found somewhat which I conceive is like to it if not Identically it The man I take it would be here conceived to reason after this manner If the Church of Christ ought to be ruled or governed only with one species or kinde of government then ought not they to be suffered who go about to pluralize this government or to set up a kind of government in the Church specifically differing from the government more generally practised and established Sed verum prius Ergo posterius and consequently the Apologists being men that would do such a thing as this are not to be tolerated If this be the argument this is the Answer First the consequence is lame and halts right down because though the Church of Christ ought to be governed with one and the same kinde of government throughout the world yet it no wayes follows from hence that therefore that government which is more generally established and practised in the world should be that specificall government whereby it ought to be governed If this consequence were good it would highly befriend the government Pontifician but dissolve and destroy the government Presbyterian because the Pontifician government is or at least not long since was far more oecumenicall and comprehensive then the Presbyterian either is or is like to be Therefore in framing this consequence the man hath given sentence against himself and his own beloved opinion touching Church-Discipline and hath put a sword into the Popes hand to smite as well the Consistorian as the Congregationall Government And Secondly suppose the government more generally practised in the world be that very kinde of government whereby the Churches of Christ ought to be governed yet except this government both as touching the lawfulness and necessity of it be sufficiently cleered to the judgement and consciences of those from whom submission to it is required an honour whereunto A. S. his government hath not yet been preferred by all his great friends they ought not to be scourged with â—is Scorpions if they demurre a while about their submission thereunto and in the mean season desire to live under such a government wherein they have double and treble satisfaction both in point of lawfulness and necessity above the other Thirdly and lastly though unity and uniformity in government be very fitting and necessary throughout the Churches of Christ yet that the servants of Christ should fall foul one upon another and the greater eat up the less for this uniformity sake is no wayes necessary especially considering that God as hath been formerly shewed hath provided other means far more gracious honourable and proper for the bringing of the blessedness of this uniformity upon his Churches in due time So that if there be any thing in this Reason it is altogether with and not at all against the Apologists To your fifteenth His 15. Reason answered wee answer first be it supposed which yet wee shall presently oppose that neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church yet did he or they ever grant a power to a major part of Professours in a Kingdom or Nation to grind the faces of their Brethren partakers of like precious faith and holiness with them either because they could not in all points jump with them in their judgements or because they endeavoured to keep a good conscience toward God for following the ducture and guidance of their present light If you will take without asking that which neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted you you may very well bear it at the hands of your Brethren if they humbly sue and intreat for what they never granted especially considering that that which you take is imperious and high tending to the annoyance and trouble of many whereas that which they sue for is moderate and low only a peaceable standing amongst you that they may be able to do good unto many Secondly if neither Christ nor his Apostles as you say ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in his Church how come you and your Government to be tolerated your Government being specifically diversified from that of the Papacy as if before observed which is more generall and extensive then yours If you have not a toleration for your government either from Christ or his Apostles we are doubtfull from whom or whence you have it Thirdly doe you not by this reason build up the walls of Babylon and strengthen the Papists in their bloody errour against the reformed Churches upon which they looke as schismaticall from their Mother and in that respect think them no wayes fit to be tolerated but to be suppressed both in their doctrine and government yea and in case they will not be reduced to the principles of Rome to be wholly extirpated and rooted out of the world What can be spoken more to the heart of such apprehensions and counsels and resolutions as these then that neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted any toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church Fourthly whereas you say that they granted no toleration to divers Sects do you not imply that they did grant a toleration to some one Sect at least if not to more And how know you whether the Sect of Apologisme in your improperating stile be not that Sect or one of those Sects to which Christ and his Apostles it seems granted a toleration Is it not I appeale to your judgement and conscience as like to be this as any other Fifthly we willingly grant your conclusion in this Reason sensusano that there is no reason why the Apologists should sue for a toleration no nor yet properly why they should be tolerated toleration in propriety of signification as was formerly noted being rei malae appliable onely to that which iâ— evill but rather why they should be countenanced and encouraged Therefore if you think that they shall sin in suing for a toleration you shall doe well to prevent that sin in them and perhaps shall withall prevent a greater of your owne by declaring them persons worthy not of a toleration but of encouragement or at least by procuring them a toleration that they may not be put upon the tentation of suing for it But sixthly and lastly to the main frame of your Reason what doe you think of Sinite utrunque crescere Let both grow together untill the Harvest Matth. 13.30 Is not here the toleration granted which you deny to be granted Non lac lacti nec ovum ovo similius If it bee not this toleration certainly it is somewhat as like to it as like may be
that some of his brethren hold that all Sects and opinions are to be tolerated p. 6. So that in case these men should have the upper hand he is assured of a partie at least among them to secure him and his in that kind Secondly he confesseth again and again that his brethren are very pious and holy men and therefore certainly will not be so dogged as to send him and his into any Isle of Dogs Thirdly a poore toleration is as far from a superioritie of power as rags are from the robe or the dunghill from the throne Fourthly I doe not think that he knowes any such Isle as he speaks of whereinto he fears to be sent by the men of his indignation Fifthly and lastly if he should be sent into some Isle of Dogs the soyle and climate might probably agree well with him he hath learned it seems to bark and bite too against his sending thither To conclude for this Reason Whereas feare indeed ordinarily makes men cruell it is much to be feared A. S. onely pretends feare that so he may have a colour to be cruell His 17. Reason answered To his seventeenth Reason we answer First that the Scripture doth not forbid all nor any such Toleration as the Apologists desire This was sufficiently shewed before in our answer to the fifteenth Reason His proofe from Revel 2.20 holds no intelligence at all with his purpose yea it makes sore against himselfe and his Synedrion For first by the toleration or suffering of Jezabel which is there charged as a sinfull neglect upon the Church of Thyatira is not meant a Civill or State-toleration but an Ecclesiastick or Church-toleration This Church suffered false Doctrines to be taught in her very bosome and her members to bee corrupted and endangered thereby from day to day without laying it to heart being a matter of that sad consequence and without calling those to an account that were the sowers of such tares broachers spreaders of such opinions yea without using any means to have the truth soundly taught in opposition to such Doctrines Both Pastour and people it seems slept together whilst the envious man by his Agent and Factress Jezabel sowed these tares in their field Such a toleration as this wee formerly shewed to be sinfull and the Apologists are as much against it as you so far are they from desiring it or suing for it They desire a Toleration for themselves and their Churches in the Civill state not that the errours which spring up in their Churches should be suffered to fret like gangrens without being opposed by them or be protected by the State Secondly whereas that particular Church alone is charged by Christ with this toleration or sufferance of Jezabel and not any more Churches whether neighbours or not neighbours to her nor any combined Eldership or state Ecclesiasticall made of the consociation of the seven Churches much less any state civill evident it is that the care and power of redressing emerging enormities or evils in a Church in every kinde is committed by Christ to every particular Church respectively within it self And so they that trouble the Church must as you say be cut off But by whom not by the civill Magistrate if the trouble be spirituall nor by the combined Eldership but by the particular Church it self which is troubled by them in case there be no remedy otherwise Secondly when you say that there must be no such speeches among us as I am of Paul I am of Apollos c. nor that some are Calvinians some Independenters some Brownists c. And again that we must all be Christs wee must all think and speak the same thing otherwise men are carnall c. with some other good words to like purpose we joyn heart and hand with you in all these things and are ready to contribute the best of our endeavours unto yours if yee will suffer us to make the Tabernacle of God amongst us according to this pattern which you shew unto us Such expressions I am of Paul I of Apollos c. together with the names of Calvinians Independents Brownists c. are as untuncable in our eares as in yours c. But First every man that saith I am of Paul or I am of Apollos is not to be taught by Thorns and Briars as Gedeon taught the men of Succoth to speak better by fining imprisoning unchurching or the like but by soundness of conviction and wholesomness of instruction from the Word of God The Germanâ— have a saying That etiam in lâ—trone puniendo potest peccari A man may sin in punishing him that most of all deserves it It is not enough for us to correspond with God in his ends but we must keep as close to him in his meanes also Secondly whereas you say we must all be Christs surely there is none of those Sects you speak of but are willing to joyn with you in being his and in being called by his Name rather then by any other We fear these unhappie sounds of Independents Brownists Anabaptists c. are more frequently made of your breath then of the breath of any other sort or sect of men amongst us Thirdly whereas you adde Neither hath the Church of God a custome to be contentious the Apostle indeed saith 1 Cor. 11.16 that the Churches of God have no such custome but he doth not say that these Churches of God had any custome to erect a Presbyterian throne or a combined eldership amongst them to keep them from contentions Fourthly whereas you tell us that neither permitteth the Apostle Schismes we tell you that we have already told you and that once and again both in what sense he permitteth them and in what not and have shewed you our concurrence with him in both Fifthly and lastly in that you tell us that we must not quit our mutuall meetings as others do and as must you say be done in a publique Toleration we neither well understand the sense of your words much less any purport in them to your pupose We do not know what quitting of meetings there is like to be more under a publique toleration then is for the present His 18. Reason Answered Your eighteenth Reason is so Atheologicall and unworthy your cause that the very naming of it might be Answer sufficient A toleration say you cannot but expose your Churches unto the calumnies of Papists who evermore object unto Protestants the innumerable number of these Sects whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church Will you redeem your selfe out of the hand of Popish calumnies by symbolizing with them will you turne Turk that you may not suffer Turkish insolencies and thraldome Surely you forget your argument insisted upon in your eleventh Reason There you make symbolizing with Papists a reason against your Brethren and their Opinions why they should not be tolerated and here you make a defect or want in them of symbolizing with them a reason