have_v take_v thing_n upon_o my_o report_n upon_o trust_n and_o partly_o that_o my_o candid_a and_o fair_a deal_n with_o the_o author_n who_o i_o have_v to_o do_v withal_o may_v the_o better_o appear_v for_o when_o a_o man_n word_n be_v not_o keep_v but_o forsake_v and_o other_o substitute_v in_o their_o place_n his_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v soon_o be_v mistake_v and_o represent_v amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n which_o be_v a_o practice_n that_o i_o have_v often_o see_v but_o never_o approve_v and_o therefore_o i_o have_v not_o use_v it_o for_o i_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o wrong_v any_o man_n special_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_a as_o i_o take_v master_n rutherfurd_n to_o be_v by_o impute_v to_o he_o what_o he_o do_v not_o teach_v nor_o deliver_v and_o for_o this_o cause_n it_o be_v that_o i_o have_v usual_o transcribe_v and_o express_v his_o own_o word_n and_o by_o this_o mean_v my_o book_n be_v grow_v to_o the_o great_a bulk_n one_o thing_n more_o i_o will_v advertise_v the_o reader_n of_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v quick_o have_v do_v the_o figure_n from_o 185_o and_o so_o forward_o note_v the_o number_n of_o the_o page_n in_o master_n rutherfurd_n his_o treatise_n be_v set_v down_o twice_o therein_o once_o in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o again_o after_o the_o page_n 484._o wherefore_o if_o any_o of_o these_o page_n be_v quote_v in_o this_o reply_n as_o some_o of_o they_o be_v if_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v allege_v be_v not_o find_v in_o the_o page_n that_o be_v name_v look_v for_o it_o in_o the_o other_o place_n of_o the_o book_n where_o be_v the_o same_o figure_n and_o there_o you_o may_v find_v it_o courteous_a reader_n study_v the_o truth_n in_o a_o way_n of_o piety_n and_o peace_n be_v zealous_a for_o it_o but_o lose_v not_o love_v to_o the_o saint_n beware_v when_o the_o world_n be_v fill_v with_o dispute_n about_o discipline_n that_o thou_o be_v not_o draw_v only_o to_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o main_a matter_n of_o doctrine_n be_v sure_a to_o practice_v and_o express_v the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o humility_n of_o mind_n mortification_n of_o thy_o own_o corruption_n faith_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o love_n to_o all_o his_o redeem_v and_o be_v not_o by_o any_o mean_v draw_v away_o from_o these_o thing_n which_o do_v so_o main_o conduce_v to_o thy_o salvation_n final_o as_o the_o holy_a ghost_n say_v phil._n 4._o 8_o 9_o whatsoever_o thing_n be_v true_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v honest_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v just_a whatsoever_o thing_n be_v lovely_a pure_a and_o of_o good_a report_n if_o there_o be_v any_o virtue_n if_o there_o be_v any_o praise_n think_v on_o these_o thing_n and_o do_v they_o and_o the_o god_n of_o peace_n shall_v be_v with_o thou_o improve_v i_o pray_v such_o interest_n as_o thou_o have_v in_o god_n through_o the_o mediator_n by_o afford_v the_o help_n of_o thy_o prayer_n for_o i_o who_o be_o true_o desirous_a of_o thy_o salvation_n r._n m._n decemb._n 10._o 1646._o a_o table_n of_o the_o content_n of_o the_o ensue_a treatise_n chap._n 1._o of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr_n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o must_v not_o be_v appeal_n to_o general_n counsel_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v not_o yet_o deny_v page_n 2._o chap._n 2._o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advite_v and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v page_n 11._o chap._n 3._o of_o the_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 15._o chap._n 4._o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o page_n 21._o chap._n 5._o again_o of_o that_o assembly_n acts._n 15._o whither_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n page_n 24._o chap._n 6._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n page_n 30._o chap._n 7._o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v page_n 39_o chap._n 8._o whether_o antioch_n acts._n 15._o have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o controversy_n among_o themselves_o if_o they_o have_v be_v able_a and_o whether_o their_o send_n to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v or_o their_o knowledge_n that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a evil_n or_o the_o party_n among_o themselves_o who_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v prove_v the_o contrary_n and_o of_o supremacy_n of_o power_n in_o congregation_n page_n 49._o chap._n 9_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o page_n 66._o chap._n 10._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a minestry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n page_n 75._o chap._n 11._o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n page_n 93_o chap._n 12._o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr_n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congregation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_n or_o national_n council_n page_n 104._o chap._n 13._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o page_n 112._o chap._n 14._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o corinth_n be_v one_o church_n meet_v distributive_o in_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o 1_o cor._n 14._o 23._o if_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n etc._n etc._n do_v make_v for_o sundry_a congregation_n or_o for_o one_o only_a page_n 123._o chap._n 15._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o ephesus_n be_v more_o in_o number_n then_o corinth_n and_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n baynes_n whether_o that_o church_n be_v many_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 137._o chap._n 16._o whether_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v only_o one_o congregation_n and_o whether_o acts._n 14._o 27._o and_o 15._o 30._o do_v not_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a page_n 140._o chap._n 17._o whether_o or_o no_o liberty_n be_v give_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o people_n but_o woman_n must_v exercise_v the_o same_o as_o well_o as_o man_n and_o of_o the_o people_n liberty_n about_o ordination_n or_o the_o call_n of_o minister_n page_n 146._o chap._n 18._o of_o mr_n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n page_n 151._o chap._n 19_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o be_v do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n page_n 153._o chap._n 20._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o
such_o appeal_v because_o such_o assembly_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o many_o eye_n do_v see_v more_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n then_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o great_a assembly_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v the_o most_o eye_n do_v of_o all_o other_o most_v seldom_o err_v and_o so_o to_o they_o there_o must_v be_v the_o most_o appeal_v for_o the_o learned_a author_n well_o know_v à _fw-la quatenùs_fw-la ad_fw-la omniâ—_n valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o reason_n of_o appeal_v lie_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o apprehension_n in_o the_o rareness_n and_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v in_o such_o assembly_n to_o who_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v lie_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n of_o eye_n in_o such_o assembly_n it_o must_v needs_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o universal_a or_o general_a council_n as_o have_v in_o they_o the_o most_o eye_n be_v the_o assembly_n that_o do_v most_o seldom_o err_v and_o so_o unâ—o_v they_o there_o must_v be_v most_o appeal_v which_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o classical_a 〈◊〉_d and_o national_n synod_n be_v all_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v and_o striâ—t_v of_o 〈◊〉_d of_o â—â—â—â—diction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o particular_a congregation_n the_o synod_n by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o general_a council_n as_o to_o those_o that_o do_v raâ—iùs_fw-la câ—rare_fw-la aswell_o as_o the_o 〈…〉_z appeal_v unto_o the_o synod_n and_o so_o thera_fw-la must_v be_v no_o entireness_n of_o 〈…〉_z only_o in_o the_o general_a council_n but_o from_o all_o other_o synod_n there_o must_v 〈◊〉_d liberty_n of_o appeal_v aswell_o as_o from_o the_o congregation_n this_o consequence_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v do_v unavoidable_o follow_v upon_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v undowne_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o so_o ouâ—_n brethren_n by_o this_o mean_n have_v spin_v a_o fine_a thread_n draw_v forth_o a_o conclusion_n which_o be_v every_o what_o as_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o own_o cause_n as_o to_o we_o if_o any_o ask_v why_o may_v not_o this_o consequence_n be_v own_v why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o all_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n except_o only_o the_o general_a council_n the_o answer_n be_v thâ—t_v we_o may_v not_o so_o say_v because_o then_o cause_n will_v be_v too_o long_o depend_v aâ—ore_o they_o can_v come_v to_o issue_n yea_o perhaps_o will_v never_o come_v to_o issue_v as_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v for_o by_o this_o rule_n they_o may_v by_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n be_v protract_v until_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o general_a council_n to_o be_v determine_v there_o now_o as_o there_o have_v not_o be_v any_o such_o council_n for_o many_o age_n bypass_a so_o it_o be_v very_o uncertain_a when_o there_o will_v be_v one_o assemble_v whether_o ever_o or_o never_o whilst_o this_o world_n stand_v but_o we_o think_v christ_n jesus_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o his_o church_n then_o so_o and_o have_v not_o appoint_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n but_o that_o cause_n may_v be_v determine_v afore_o any_o general_a council_n can_v be_v assemble_v beside_o if_o such_o assembly_n may_v be_v frequent_o attain_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o clear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v assemble_v they_o have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o but_o only_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n remain_v in_o some_o other_o assembly_n sure_o it_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n thus_o teach_v express_o for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o due_a right_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 482._o and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o page_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o next_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n math._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n he_o say_v thus_o because_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_n church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v a_o ordinary_a communion_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n church_n by_o which_o saying_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o count_v christ_n remedy_n to_o censure_n scandal_n not_o needful_a in_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o and_o he_o serious_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v that_o such_o a_o council_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o to_o censure_v scandal_n which_o be_v so_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o scandal_n must_v be_v censure_v and_o cause_n end_v somewhere_o else_o afore_o they_o can_v come_v 〈◊〉_d such_o end_n to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o then_o how_o can_v that_o stand_v which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n to_o synod_n in_o this_o because_o they_o do_v rariùs_fw-la errare_fw-la more_fw-mi seldom_o err_v than_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o have_v many_o eye_n do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n for_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o appliable_a to_o the_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o notwithstanding_o he_o deny_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o if_o they_o hâ—ve_v no_o such_o power_n there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o such_o purpose_n and_o end_n and_o how_o these_o thing_n can_v stand_v together_o that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v to_o such_o or_o such_o assemly_n do_v he_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v as_o have_v many_o eye_n and_o yet_o that_o to_o general_a council_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o appeal_v at_o all_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o of_o all_o other_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o â—ound_v in_o they_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v if_o any_o shall_v say_v that_o as_o mr._n rutheâ—ford_n do_v make_v that_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v so_o he_o do_v also_o hold_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n even_o in_o general_a council_n and_o shall_v therefore_o doubt_v whether_o i_o do_v true_o report_v he_o 〈◊〉_d touch_v the_o contrary_a i_o will_v wish_v no_o more_o favour_n of_o such_o a_o one_o but_o to_o peruse_v the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o allege_a and_o then_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v â—nd_v the_o word_n to_o be_v no_o otherwise_o but_o as_o i_o have_v set_v they_o down_o i_o know_v indeed_o there_o be_v some_o place_n in_o he_o which_o do_v look_v another_o way_n as_o that_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o invatâ—_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v that_o power_n which_o now_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o due_a right_n page_n 308._o and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v he_o see_v nothing_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o national_n church_n yea_o and_o further_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o general_a council_n at_o this_o dâ—y_n they_o may_v lawful_o in_o a_o juridical_a way_n so_o be_v his_o word_n do_v that_o to_o the_o faction_n of_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n which_o he_o say_v be_v excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o thâ—_n act._n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o say_v this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_n council_n these_o place_n i_o confess_v do_v seem_v to_o i_o not_o very_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o either_o afore_o allege_v for_o in_o the_o one_o he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v in_o general_a council_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v the_o former_a place_n and_o not_o these_o latter_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o in_o which_o former_a as_o i_o conceive_v he_o to_o hold_v the_o truth_n so_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n about_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n be_v much_o infirm_v thereby_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v take_v to_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v which_o be_v most_o
proper_o find_v in_o such_o assembly_n i_o meâ—ne_v in_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n at_o all_o to_o conclude_v this_o chapter_n when_o we_o do_v inquire_v about_o power_n of_o appeal_n and_o unto_o what_o court_v appeal_n must_v be_v bring_v our_o way_n be_v not_o to_o seek_v for_o such_o â—_z as_o can_v err_v for_o such_o we_o shall_v never_o find_v nor_o for_o such_o as_o we_o think_v will_n more_o seldom_o err_v as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o for_o that_o rule_n be_v also_o subject_a to_o much_o uncertainty_n and_o exception_n as_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o the_o best_a way_n be_v to_o inquire_v where_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v place_v the_o power_n of_o the_o last_o and_o final_a censure_v and_o determine_v of_o cause_n and_o when_o that_o be_v find_v therewith_o to_o rest_v content_v and_o as_o for_o synod_n and_o council_n it_o be_v neither_o their_z not_o err_v nor_o their_o seldom_o err_a that_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n to_o place_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o unless_o the_o lord_n jesus_n have_v so_o appoint_v and_o ordain_v which_o yet_o do_v not_o appear_v and_o so_o much_o for_o this_o first_o place_n wherein_o our_o brother_n deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n ii_o of_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o give_v advice_n and_o counsel_n and_o whether_o from_o thence_o it_o do_v follow_v that_o they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v the_o next_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v this_o learned_a author_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 381._o where_o have_v in_o the_o close_a of_o a_o 4_o the_o objection_n in_o the_o precedent_a page_n bring_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n a_o synod_n in_o dogmatic_a power_n arise_v no_o high_a than_o this_o viz._n a_o man_n or_o a_o single_a congregation_n as_o that_o a_o divine_a institution_n do_v fall_v upon_o it_o among_o other_o thing_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n he_o say_v thus_o viz._n i_o will_v know_v if_o a_o synod_n dogmatic_a power_n be_v above_o the_o power_n of_o single_a congregation_n i_o think_v say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o by_o our_o brethren_n tenant_n for_o they_o say_v express_o that_o every_o particular_a church_n have_v right_a jus_o to_o decide_v dogmatic_a point_n this_o right_a the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v act._n 15_o anâ—_n labour_v to_o end_v that_o controversy_n within_o herself_o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v right_o anâ—_n power_n but_o they_o have_v not_o ability_n and_o therefore_o in_o that_o case_n they_o seek_v for_o counsel_n light_n and_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n and_o then_o among_o other_o place_n for_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v our_o tenent_n he_o allege_v in_o his_o margin_n my_o name_n and_o mr._n tompsonâ—_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 2._o and_o after_o the_o word_n above_o rehearse_v and_o some_o other_o to_o the_o like_a purpose_n he_o infer_v thus_o hence_o say_v he_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v answ_n to_o omit_v at_o least_o for_o this_o time_n the_o other_o place_n allege_v in_o his_o margin_n and_o not_o to_o examine_v how_o far_o his_o answer_n reach_v to_o satisfy_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v it_o i_o will_v only_o consider_v of_o such_o thing_n as_o do_v direct_o concern_v the_o answer_n for_o that_o be_v the_o scope_n â—ayme_v at_o and_o i_o endeavour_v to_o keep_v close_o thereto_o first_o therefore_o i_o have_v this_o to_o say_v that_o for_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n for_o the_o right_n and_o power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n in_o particular_a and_o for_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n to_o be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o chapter_n allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n about_o any_o one_o of_o those_o 〈◊〉_d either_o one_o way_n or_o another_o so_o that_o i_o can_v but_o marvel_v why_o this_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v allege_v that_o chapter_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n 2._o although_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n page_n 4â—_n there_o be_v word_n to_o the_o like_a purpose_n with_o those_o which_o our_o author_n here_o set_v down_o concern_v antioch_n yet_o for_o the_o conclusion_n and_o consequence_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o infer_v viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n as_o there_o be_v nothing_o say_v â—_o the_o chapter_n by_o he_o allege_v that_o look_v that_o way_n so_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o page_n or_o chapter_n where_o aâ—tioch_n be_v speak_v of_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o all_o thâ—_n book_n 〈◊〉_d as_o i_o do_v remember_v that_o can_v any_o way_n serve_v for_o the_o prove_v of_o such_o a_o conclusion_n and_o tenant_n to_o be_v we_o the_o author_n allege_v no_o place_n that_o have_v such_o a_o conclusion_n in_o it_o either_o in_o direct_a word_n or_o by_o just_a consequence_n and_o i_o profess_v that_o for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o know_v of_o any_o such_o 3._o but_o this_o i_o do_v know_v that_o the_o direct_a contrary_n to_o what_o here_o be_v express_v be_v plain_o to_o be_v find_v in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o say_a answer_n viz._n pag._n 7._o where_o there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n if_o a_o synod_n may_v bâ—_n call_v a_o church_n and_o if_o power_n by_o disputation_n and_o disquisition_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o may_v be_v call_v government_n than_o they_o viz._n the_o independent_n as_o they_o be_v call_v do_v admit_v a_o synod_n to_o be_v a_o govern_n church_n for_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v they_o do_v allow_v unto_o synod_n now_o the_o power_n here_o mention_v be_v as_o we_o see_v not_o only_o a_o power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n but_o also_o a_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o they_o allow_v this_o power_n unto_o synod_n as_o they_o do_v exprest_o say_v that_o they_o do_v i_o know_v not_o why_o our_o brother_n shall_v say_v that_o they_o allow_v unto_o synod_n only_o a_o power_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n for_o power_n to_o command_v obedience_n and_o power_n only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advice_n i_o suppose_v be_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o report_n in_o this_o particular_a can_v be_v make_v good_a to_o i_o it_o seem_v apparent_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o command_v obedience_n have_v more_o then_o only_o a_o power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o they_o who_o have_v only_o this_o latter_a have_v no_o power_n of_o the_o â—ormeâ—_n at_o all_o even_o interiour_o as_o naaman_n servant_n 2_o king_n 5._o have_v power_n to_o counsel_n and_o advise_v their_o master_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v their_o master_n to_o yield_v obedience_n 4_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a which_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o answer_n in_o another_o place_n â—hough_o not_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v say_v that_o aâ—tioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v end_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o and_o that_o by_o reason_n of_o distension_n and_o through_o want_n of_o light_n they_o be_v force_v to_o send_v out_o to_o â—â—rusalem_fw-la for_o help_n must_v it_o needs_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o his_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v no_o more_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o conclusion_n which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o draw_v â—â—om_n that_o which_o be_v say_v concern_v antioch_n i_o â—â—â—ceive_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n at_o all_o of_o such_o a_o consequence_n for_o whence_o must_v the_o same_o 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v from_o one_o of_o these_o two_o either_o from_o this_o that_o antioch_n be_v suppose_v and_o say_v to_o have_v have_v right_o within_o herself_o or_o else_o from_o this_o that_o jerusalem_n give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v any_o other_o colour_n for_o conclude_v such_o a_o conseptionce_n as_o be_v in_o question_n the_o answer_n afford_v none_o that_o i_o know_v of_o 〈◊〉_d for_o these_o two_o particular_n here_o mention_v they_o be_v both_o insufficient_a for_o such_o 〈◊〉_d purpose_n for_o what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o there_o be_v more_o power_n in_o the_o synod_n of_o â—erusalem_fw-la towards_o they_o of_o antioch_n then_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v even_o power_n to_o command_v they_o to_o do_v what_o be_v their_o duty_n though_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o end_v the_o matter_n themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o do_v right_a in_o one_o person_n or_o assembly_n
to_o end_v their_o maâ—â—ers_n if_o they_o be_v able_a extempt_v they_o from_o be_v under_o the_o command_n of_o other_o hoshoulder_n have_v right_a to_o govern_v and_o order_v their_o family_n if_o so_o be_v that_o they_o be_v able_a do_v it_o follow_v therefore_o that_o superior_n in_o church_n or_o civil_a state_n have_v no_o power_n to_o command_v householder_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n herein_o but_o only_o to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v or_o if_o housholdere_fw-la have_v such_o right_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o be_v under_o no_o command_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o class_n and_o provincial_n synod_n have_v no_o right_a to_o end_v their_o own_o matter_n within_o themselves_o if_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v power_n to_o command_v they_o or_o if_o they_o have_v such_o right_n shall_v we_o therefore_o say_v they_o be_v not_o under_o the_o command_n of_o the_o national_n synod_n and_o that_o the_o national_n synod_n have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v we_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o he_o may_v as_o well_o say_v it_o as_o say_v as_o he_o he_o do_v that_o because_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o â—nd_v she_o own_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v able_a therefore_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n but_o only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o though_o the_o synod_n be_v to_o give_v counsel_n and_o advise_v which_o be_v the_o other_o ground_n whereon_o the_o conclusy_a afore_v mention_v seem_v to_o be_v build_v yet_o neither_o will_v master_n rutherford_n his_o conclusâ—on_n that_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v follow_v from_o thence_o at_o all_o for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o counsel_n and_o advise_v may_v be_v administer_v and_o give_v by_o they_o who_o have_v also_o power_n to_o command_v not_o every_o one_o indeed_o as_o may_v advise_v and_o counsel_n may_v forth_o with_o command_n and_o enjoin_v nevertheless_o counsel_n and_o command_n be_v not_o so_o repugnant_a but_o that_o they_o who_o may_v command_v may_v also_o advise_v paul_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o enjoin_v phylâ—mon_a to_o do_v what_o be_v convenient_a and_o yet_o for_o love_n sake_n will_v rather_o beseech_v he_o philem_n 8._o 9_o the_o lord_n jesus_n to_o doubt_n have_v absolute_a authority_n to_o command_v and_o yet_o we_o find_v he_o sometime_o speak_v to_o the_o son_n of_o man_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n or_o advise_v revel_v 3._o â—8_o i_o counsel_v thou_o to_o buy_v of_o i_o gold_n that_o thou_o may_v he_o rich_a etc._n etc._n shall_v we_o now_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n be_v only_o by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o advise_v and_o that_o his_o power_n can_v amount_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o command_n i_o suppose_v we_o will_v be_v afraid_a and_o abhor_v to_o deduce_v such_o a_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v advise_v yet_o their_o power_n to_o command_v which_o be_v more_o than_o mere_a counsel_n and_o advise_v be_v not_o from_o thence_o conclude_v to_o be_v null_a and_o so_o much_o for_o master_n rutherford_n his_o second_o place_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o answer_n chap._n iii_o of_o the_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o they_o do_v exercise_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n against_o the_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o whether_o their_o rebuke_v of_o they_o do_v argue_v the_o affirmative_a in_o his_o page_n 388._o he_o lay_v down_o this_o as_o a_o 2d._o object_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n for_o scandal_n and_o that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o because_o there_o be_v nothing_o there_o but_o a_o doctrinal_a declaration_n of_o the_o falsehood_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o teach_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o that_o all_o be_v do_v by_o way_n of_o doctrine_n and_o by_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n not_o of_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_a from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o meeting_n which_o be_v verse_n 2_o &_o 6._o to_o consider_v of_o that_o question_n consideration_n of_o question_n be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v a_o thing_n belong_v to_o doctrinal_a power_n mere_o and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n allege_v the_o answer_n chap._n 1._o page_n 8._o ans_fw-fr whereto_o i_o first_o of_o all_o return_n this_o answer_n first_o that_o the_o thing_n here_o in_o question_n be_v about_o the_o power_n of_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o master_n rutherford_n that_o can_v warrant_v he_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o objection_n under_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o proceed_v from_o we_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o meeting_n act_v 15_o be_v not_o mention_v at_o all_o in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v neither_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o he_o set_v down_o nor_o for_o any_o other_o much_o loss_n be_v the_o objection_n we_o in_o terminis_fw-la now_o to_o frame_v a_o objection_n and_o to_o allege_v chapter_n and_o page_n for_o proof_n that_o the_o objection_n be_v we_o when_o as_o neither_o page_n nor_o chapter_n aleadge_v do_v speak_v any_o thing_n at_o all_o of_o that_o matter_n what_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o know_v not_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o the_o objection_n do_v not_o much_o differ_v from_o my_o apprehension_n and_o judgement_n and_o something_o in_o the_o answer_n elsewhere_o may_v possible_o intimate_v such_o a_o thing_n though_o but_o brief_o touch_v i_o will_v therefore_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v for_o remove_v the_o objection_n as_o himself_o have_v propound_v the_o same_o it_o be_v false_a say_v he_o that_o there_o be_v no_o censure_v of_o person_n here_o for_o it_o be_v more_o than_o evident_a that_o the_o public_a synodical_a censure_n of_o rebuke_n be_v put_v upon_o those_o who_o hold_v and_o urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o circumcision_n and_o why_o not_o excommunication_n also_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n for_o the_o synodical_a censure_n of_o a_o public_a synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a not_o specifical_o from_o excommunication_n &_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o ouâ—_n &_o the_o same_o power_n so_o then_o the_o sum_n be_v the_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o rebuke_v and_o therefore_o of_o excommunication_n also_o answ_n the_o consequence_n be_v not_o clear_a for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v it_o not_o the_o express_a law_n of_o god_n that_o every_o man_n shall_v plain_o rebuke_v his_o neighbour_n and_o not_o suffer_v sin_n upon_o he_o levit._n 19_o 17_o and_o be_v not_o our_o 〈◊〉_d word_n as_o plain_a if_o thy_o brother_n trespasle_n against_o thou_o rebuke_v he_o and_o if_o he_o repent_v forgive_v he_o luke_n 17._o 3_o whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o one_o particular_a person_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n to_o put_v a_o rebuke_n upon_o another_o if_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o will_v it_o follow_v hereupon_o that_o one_o particular_a christian_a have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v another_o in_o case_n of_o obstinacy_n i_o suppose_v master_n rutherford_n will_v not_o say_v so_o and_o yet_o unless_o this_o be_v say_v i_o know_v not_o how_o his_o consequence_n can_v be_v make_v good_a that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v they_o may_v excommunicate_v also_o i_o know_v indeed_o he_o say_v the_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v only_o gradual_o different_a from_o excommunication_n and_o not_o specifical_o and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o one_o and_o the_o same_o power_n but_o this_o will_v require_v some_o proof_n and_o shall_v not_o naked_o be_v affirm_v without_o any_o proof_n at_o all_o for_o of_o itself_o it_o be_v not_o evident_a that_o where_o â—ver_o there_o be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v there_o be_v power_n of_o excommunication_n also_o the_o contrary_n i_o suppose_v be_v evident_a from_o that_o which_o have_v already_o be_v say_v from_o levit._n 19_o 17._o and_o luke_n 17._o 3._o and_o from_o many_o other_o scripture_n and_o reason_n which_o show_v that_o one_o man_n alone_o have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v who_o can_v for_o that_o be_v conclude_v to_o have_v any_o power_n of_o excommunication_n i_o know_v the_o learned_a mâ—n_z be_v copious_a in_o prove_v from_o the_o word_n of_o verse_n 24._o certain_a man_n go_v from_o we_o and_o have_v trouble_v you_o with_o word_n subvert_v your_o soul_n etc._n etc._n that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n confute_v the_o false_a opinion_n and_o doctrine_n of_o these_o teacher_n of_o
circumcision_n but_o do_v also_o rebuke_v they_o for_o another_o fault_n to_o wit_n their_o obtrude_a their_o false_a way_n upon_o the_o soul_n and_o conscience_n of_o other_o and_o for_o their_o wilful_a and_o obstinate_a uphold_v that_o opinion_n and_o raise_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n but_o if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v his_o purpose_n be_v not_o gain_v thereby_o unless_o he_o will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o do_v but_o only_o affirm_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o synodical_a rebuke_n be_v not_o specifical_o different_a but_o only_a gradual_o from_o excommunication_n and_o that_o both_o must_v proceed_v from_o the_o same_o power_n which_o yeâ—_n he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o but_o say_v he_o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o in_o church_n way_n and_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n do_v rebuke_n and_o synodical_o charge_v the_o author_n as_o subverter_n of_o soul_n and_o liar_n than_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o this_o synod_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n but_o the_o former_a be_v true_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n i_o think_v this_o kind_n of_o argue_v be_v but_o a_o beg_n of_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o a_o prove_v of_o idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o if_o the_o synod_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n refute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o by_o a_o juridical_a power_n rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o use_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n but_o also_o a_o juridical_a power_n that_o be_v if_o they_o do_v so_o they_o do_v so_o if_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n they_o do_v use_v it_o but_o there_o still_o lie_v the_o question_n whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o no_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v use_v such_o power_n or_o not_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v do_v not_o clear_v it_o all_o if_o we_o on_o the_o contrary_n shall_v argue_v thus_o if_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o put_v forth_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n or_o discipline_n but_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n conâ—ute_v a_o false_a doctrine_n and_o rebuke_v the_o author_n of_o it_o than_o they_o do_v only_o put_v forth_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n and_o not_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n one_o of_o far_o less_o ability_n than_o our_o learned_a author_n will_v soon_o espy_v the_o looseness_n of_o such_o reason_n at_o least_o himself_o we_o doubt_v not_o will_v soon_o espy_v it_o for_o sometime_o we_o hear_v he_o say_v friend_n your_o logic_n be_v naught_o page_n 177._o and_o yet_o be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n the_o logic_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_n be_v not_o so_o good_a as_o to_o be_v altogether_o without_o fault_n no_o not_o for_o the_o form_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o see_v how_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v conclude_v thereby_o but_o to_o leave_v this_o mistake_n and_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o matter_n itself_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o this_o assembly_n do_v not_o only_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n consute_n a_o false_a doctrine_n but_o also_o rebuke_v the_o author_n thereof_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v do_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n be_v there_o no_o rebuke_v of_o offender_n for_o their_o fault_n but_o only_o in_o a_o way_n of_o â—â—â—â—ction_n and_o discipline_n i_o suppose_v much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v for_o the_o clear_n the_o truth_n to_o be_v otherwise_o for_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o confess_v page_n 394._o that_o there_o be_v great_a odds_o to_o do_v one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n material_o and_o to_o do_v the_o same_o formal_o and_o page_n 393._o that_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o be_v so_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o though_o this_o synod_n to_o call_v it_o so_o act._n 15._o have_v a_o doctrinal_a power_n yea_o and_o a_o power_n of_o rebuke_v these_o false_a teacher_n yet_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v viz._n their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v in_o a_o juridical_a way_n and_o their_o power_n of_o excommunication_n these_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o prove_v thereby_o for_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v that_o though_o rebuke_v do_v not_o always_o imply_v juridical_a power_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o synod_n that_o do_v rebuke_v than_o the_o power_n here_o speak_v of_o may_v be_v conclude_v thence_o to_o be_v in_o a_o synod_n the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o will_v not_o help_v at_o all_o because_o this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bring_n in_o of_o another_o efficient_a viz._n the_o synod_n for_o effect_v or_o act_v the_o same_o effect_n now_o master_n rutherford_n confess_v pag._n 393._o that_o he_o do_v not_o fetch_v the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n and_o of_o those_o decree_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n and_o give_v that_o for_o his_o reason_n which_o to_o i_o be_v unanswerable_a to_o wit_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o confess_v also_o that_o action_n have_v not_o by_o good_a logic_n their_o total_a specification_n from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o be_v so_o then_o though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o any_o synod_n may_v and_o that_o this_o synod_n do_v perform_v this_o action_n of_o rebuke_v yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o at_o all_o gain_v thereby_o at_o the_o least_o wise_a to_o end_v this_o passage_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o if_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n and_o not_o gainsay_v what_o himself_o have_v already_o write_v he_o for_o his_o part_n can_v conclude_v the_o synod_n power_n to_o excommunicate_v from_o this_o argument_n of_o their_o power_n to_o rebuke_v nor_o yet_o from_o any_o other_o argument_n whatsoever_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o do_v elsewhere_o confess_v that_o synod_n be_v not_o to_o excommunicate_v any_o and_o not_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_v of_o they_o to_o other_o church_n command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o his_o word_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o his_o page_n 413._o be_v these_o viz._n i_o can_v easy_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o the_o elicit_v act_n of_o many_o part_n of_o government_n such_o as_o excommunication_n ordination_n admit_v of_o heathen_n profess_v the_o faith_n to_o church-membership_a in_o synod_n provincicall_a national_n or_o ecumenical_a but_o that_o synod_n in_o the_o ease_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterycall_a church_n command_v these_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n in_o which_o word_n we_o have_v two_o thing_n concern_v excommunication_n to_o omit_v other_o particular_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o synod_n shall_v excommunicate_v any_o but_o only_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n therein_o second_o in_o particular_a concern_v that_o synod_n act_v 15._o that_o they_o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n or_o circumcision_n which_o particular_n be_v most_o true_a as_o i_o for_o my_o part_n so_o esteem_v of_o they_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o what_o master_n rutherford_n say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v great_o weaken_v thereby_o for_o how_o both_o these_o can_v stand_v together_o that_o this_o synod_n shall_v have_v power_n not_o only_o to_o rebuke_v but_o to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n and_o yet_o neither_o provincial_n national_n nor_o ecumenical_a synod_n to_o excommunicate_v any_o nor_o this_o synod_n in_o particular_a to_o excommunicate_v these_o false_a teacher_n but_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n to_o other_o church_n to_o who_o it_o concern_v command_v they_o to_o do_v it_o how_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v can_v stand_v together_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v chap._n four_o of_o the_o dogmatic_a power_n of_o synod_n and_o of_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o determine_v matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n serve_v thereto_o in_o his_o page_n 396._o allege_v
mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o chap._n 1._o page_n 9_o of_o the_o answer_n he_o say_v we_o there_o teach_v that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n truth_n dogmatical_o &_o that_o ultimate_o where_o the_o controversy_n be_v end_v but_o he_o say_v we_o will_v have_v this_o vltimate_a power_n not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o then_o no_o answer_v three_o thing_n which_o there_o ensue_v answ_n our_o word_n be_v these_o by_o power_n of_o decree_n we_o understand_v power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v dogmata_fw-la in_o the_o original_a act._n 16._o 4._o and_o this_o power_n we_o confess_v be_v in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o all_o in_o a_o synod_n alone_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n now_o these_o bring_v our_o word_n if_o therefore_o this_o reverend_a brother_n will_v overthrow_v our_o tenent_n in_o this_o particular_a he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o power_n as_o all_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o this_o indeed_o have_v be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o we_o teach_v but_o this_o be_v neither_o prove_v nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v and_o therefore_o our_o tenent_n herein_o do_v yet_o stand_v good_a for_o any_o thing_n he_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o no_o marvel_n siâ—h_v the_o express_a word_n of_o the_o text_n do_v witness_v that_o every_o bishop_n have_v power_n and_o be_v boand_v by_o his_o office_n and_o duty_n by_o sound_a doctrine_n both_o to_o exhort_v and_o convince_v gainsayet_n tit._n 1._o 9_o and_o according_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n do_v labour_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o circumcision_n and_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o it_o among_o themselves_o afore_o there_o be_v any_o speech_n of_o send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v act._n 15._o 2._o which_o show_v that_o they_o have_v power_n or_o right_a to_o have_v clear_v the_o matter_n among_o themselves_o if_o ability_n have_v serve_v or_o else_o this_o endeavour_n have_v be_v sinful_a as_o be_v a_o attempt_v to_o do_v that_o whereto_o they_o have_v no_o right_n so_o that_o for_o aught_o we_o yet_o so_o the_o power_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o and_o which_o we_o hold_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v there_o indeed_o by_o the_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n but_o let_v we_o hear_v master_n rutherford_n answer_v first_o say_v he_o they_o seem_v to_o make_v this_o dogmatic_a power_n a_o church_n power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o formal_o a_o act_n of_o church_n government_n and_o so_o it_o must_v be_v church_n power_n and_o church_n government_n in_o the_o synod_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o congregation_n answ_n whence_o do_v it_o seem_v that_o we_o do_v so_o make_v it_o be_v there_o any_o such_o word_n as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o or_o any_o word_n equivalent_a thereto_o or_o do_v the_o place_n make_v any_o mention_n of_o church-power_n and_o church_n government_n at_o all_o or_o be_v there_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n that_o look_v that_o way_n if_o there_o be_v let_v our_o brother_n say_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o â—each_v as_o he_o do_v report_n but_o if_o there_o be_v not_o we_o be_v sorry_a he_o shall_v report_v we_o to_o teach_v oâ—_n seem_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o to_o our_o remembrance_n we_o never_o say_v nor_o think_v and_o sure_o it_o be_v we_o have_v express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n in_o page_n 7_o the_o page_n next_o save_v one_o afore_o this_o which_o here_o he_o be_v deal_v against_o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o say_v we_o that_o this_o power_n viz._n by_o disquisition_n and_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n and_o then_o to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_n then_o a_o govern_v church_n these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n afore_o allege_a wherein_o we_o plain_o express_v what_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n seem_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v even_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o he_o say_v we_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o we_o on_o the_o one_o side_n affirm_v and_o express_v that_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v no_o power_n of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o he_o on_o the_o other_o side_n report_v that_o we_o seem_v to_o make_v the_o exercise_n of_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o be_v formal_o a_o act_n of_o church-government_n and_o so_o to_o place_v church-government_n in_o the_o synod_n in_o which_o report_n we_o must_v needs_o say_v we_o be_v plain_o misreported_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v this_o the_o last_o period_n and_o conclusion_n of_o the_o controversy_n can_v be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n by_o right_a only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n by_o right_a only_o for_o two_o last_o power_n can_v be_v proper_o in_o two_o subordinate_a judicature_n answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a but_o it_o touch_v not_o we_o at_o all_o for_o we_o never_o say_v the_o last_o period_n of_o the_o controversy_n be_v both_o in_o the_o congregation_n only_o and_o in_o the_o synod_n only_o if_o we_o have_v so_o say_v let_v the_o place_n be_v produce_v where_o we_o have_v say_v it_o for_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v do_v afford_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n nor_o any_o place_n else_o that_o we_o know_v of_o all_o that_o the_o place_n afford_v concern_v this_o point_n be_v only_o this_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o clear_n the_o truth_n dogmatical_o in_o a_o synod_n though_o not_o in_o a_o synod_n only_o but_o also_o in_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o this_o doctrine_n i_o hope_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o deny_v but_o whether_o this_o power_n be_v last_o in_o the_o synod_n or_o in_o the_o congregationall_a presbytery_n of_o this_o we_o do_v not_o speak_v at_o all_o much_o less_o do_v we_o say_v as_o he_o do_v apprehend_v and_o report_v that_o this_o power_n be_v both_o last_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o last_o in_o the_o congregation_n too_o wherefore_o our_o defence_n in_o this_o particular_a must_v needs_o be_v this_o that_o what_o here_o he_o confute_v to_o be_v out_v be_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o never_o fall_v from_o our_o mouth_n or_o pen_n nor_o for_o aught_o we_o know_v do_v never_o enter_v into_o our_o thought_n three_o he_o say_v if_o a_o controversy_n concern_v many_o congregation_n as_o this_o do_v act._n 15._o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o congregation_n except_o they_o transgress_v their_o line_n can_v final_o determine_v it_o answ_n neither_o do_v this_o touch_v we_o except_o we_o have_v say_v that_o a_o congregation_n may_v final_o determine_v controversy_n which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o yet_o we_o have_v not_o say_v as_o for_o that_o controversy_n act._n 15._o it_o be_v plain_a from_o verse_n 2_o that_o antioch_n do_v endeavour_v to_o have_v end_v it_o among_o themselves_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v trouble_v therewith_o for_o some_o teach_n that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n among_o they_o they_o have_v much_o disputation_n about_o the_o point_n afore_o they_o determine_v to_o send_v out_o for_o help_v elsewhere_o now_o to_o what_o end_n be_v thus_o much_o disputation_n if_o they_o have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n may_v they_o not_o better_o have_v spare_v their_o pain_n or_o do_v they_o not_o transgress_v their_o line_n in_o attempt_v what_o they_o do_v attempt_v sure_o it_o seem_v they_o do_v if_o they_o have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o matter_n but_o for_o our_o part_n since_o we_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o the_o least_o reprove_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o this_o attempt_n therefore_o we_o can_v but_o think_v they_o do_v well_o therein_o and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o it_o be_v from_o act._n 14._o 27._o either_o this_o controversy_n do_v trouble_v no_o church_n but_o antioch_n only_o or_o else_o when_o a_o controversy_n or_o corrupt_a opinion_n do_v trouble_v many_o church_n one_o of_o they_o may_v lawful_o determine_v and_o end_v it_o so_o far_o at_o it_o concern_v themselves_o chap._n v._n again_o of_o that_o assembly_n act._n 15._o whether_o their_o rebuke_v the_o false_a teacher_n do_v prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunication_n in_o synod_n and_o whether_o preach_v do_v prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v a_o church_n the_o new_a place_n where_o i_o find_v he_o except_v
excommunication_n in_o the_o case_n propose_v and_o therefore_o i_o see_v not_o how_o it_o can_v be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v such_o a_o power_n in_o a_o synod_n for_o which_o purpose_n master_n rutherford_n bring_v it_o of_o necessity_n for_o aught_o that_o i_o see_v one_o of_o these_o must_v be_v say_v either_o that_o this_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n to_o rebuke_v the_o man_n but_o must_v suffer_v his_o sin_n to_o be_v upon_o he_o though_o god_n be_v dishonour_v and_o other_o endanger_v thereby_o or_o else_o it_o must_v be_v say_v they_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v he_o as_o well_o as_o to_o rebuke_v he_o neither_o of_o which_o i_o conceive_v can_v safe_o be_v say_v or_o if_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v be_v say_v it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o their_o may_v be_v power_n to_o rebuke_v even_o in_o a_o assembly_n of_o many_o person_n a_o political_a society_n and_o yet_o the_o same_o assembly_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o excommunicate_v the_o person_n so_o rebuke_v and_o so_o this_o learned_a brother_n argue_v be_v answer_v likewise_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o be_v deny_v but_o one_o congregation_n if_o need_v so_o require_v may_v rebuke_v and_o reprove_v another_o congregation_n though_o neither_o of_o they_o be_v superior_a to_o other_o but_o both_o of_o they_o equal_a and_o independent_a of_o each_o other_o in_o regard_n of_o subjection_n mr._n rutherf_n confess_v p._n 294._o that_o congregation_n and_o church_n may_v admonish_v and_o rebuke_v each_o other_o and_o sure_o it_o be_v that_o scripture_n cant._n 8._o 8._o we_o have_v a_o little_a sister_n what_o shall_v we_o do_v for_o she_o do_v show_v that_o church_n ought_v to_o take_v care_n one_o for_o the_o good_a of_o another_o and_o if_o they_o must_v take_v care_n and_o consult_v for_o one_o another_o there_o be_v the_o like_a reason_n that_o they_o shall_v reprove_v and_o admonish_v one_o another_o as_o need_n shall_v require_v now_o when_o one_o church_n do_v so_o practice_v towards_o another_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o here_o be_v the_o same_o thing_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v of_o first_o a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o three_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n but_o can_v any_o man_n infer_v from_o hence_o that_o the_o church_n thus_o rebuke_v another_o church_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v that_o other_o church_n i_o suppose_v none_o will_v affirm_v it_o and_o if_o this_o may_v not_o be_v affirm_v i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o even_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n can_v be_v any_o sufficient_a ground_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n say_v our_o author_n be_v not_o consider_v here_o as_o mere_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v for_o why_o then_o shall_v they_o not_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n assembly_n if_o they_o be_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o preach_v the_o word_n pag._n 411._o 412._o answ_n when_o the_o text_n act_v 15_o do_v mention_n sometime_o the_o multitude_n verse_n 12._o sometime_o the_o brethren_n verse_n 23._o sometime_o the_o whole_a church_n verse_n 22._o beside_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n we_o know_v no_o absurdity_n in_o it_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v here_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n and_o a_o church_n assembly_n in_o which_o church-assemble_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v teacher_n and_o preacher_n though_o they_o alone_o be_v not_o the_o church_n yet_o though_o we_o think_v here_o be_v a_o church_n and_o a_o church-assemble_o we_o do_v not_o think_v mr._n rutherford_n reason_n do_v prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v for_o paul_n and_o sâ—las_n be_v preacher_n of_o the_o word_n in_o the_o prison_n at_o philippi_n act_n 16._o and_o at_o marâ—hill_n and_o the_o marketplace_n at_o athens_n act._n 17._o and_o yet_o we_o think_v it_o hard_o to_o infer_v thence_o that_o these_o assembly_n be_v formal_o church_n yea_o but_o say_v our_o author_n the_o exercise_n of_o the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o multitude_n be_v essential_o a_o act_n of_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n page_n 412._o answ_n this_o be_v very_o true_a indeed_o a_o act_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n it_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o word_n preach_v be_v take_v in_o its_o utmost_a latitude_n but_o be_v not_o avoidable_a and_o always_o a_o church-act_n or_o a_o act_n that_o infallible_o prove_v the_o assembly_n where_o such_o a_o act_n be_v perform_v to_o be_v formal_o a_o church_n this_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v have_v be_v clear_v or_o else_o the_o thing_n be_v not_o clear_v but_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n do_v not_o clear_a at_o all_o and_o the_o contrary_n be_v very_o plain_a from_o sundry_a instance_n in_o the_o act_n where_o the_o apostle_n do_v exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n in_o the_o hear_n of_o multitude_n in_o sundry_a place_n where_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o there_o be_v not_o forthwith_o any_o church_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n be_v not_o consider_v in_o this_o assembly_n as_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n in_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v because_o then_o the_o assembly_n shall_v have_v be_v formal_o a_o church_n we_o rather_o think_v they_o that_o shall_v consider_v it_o will_v find_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v and_o other_o elder_n in_o these_o day_n may_v put_v forth_o the_o act_n of_o teach_v and_o preach_v in_o some_o assembly_n suppose_v assembly_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o yet_o the_o assembly_n not_o thereby_o prove_v to_o be_v church_n chap._n vi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o of_o the_o dependence_n of_o the_o synagogue_n upon_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n next_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 414_o in_o a_o 16_o the_o objection_n in_o this_o and_o the_o former_a page_n he_o say_v thus_o therefore_o be_v the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n no_o complete_a church_n because_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n can_v be_v perform_v in_o the_o synagogue_n and_o therefore_o be_v the_o jew_n command_v only_o at_o jerusalem_n and_o in_o no_o other_o place_n to_o keep_v the_o passeover_n and_o to_o offer_v offering_n and_o sacrifice_n which_o be_v ordinary_a worship_n but_o there_o be_v not_o any_o worshipper_n sacred_a ordinance_n say_v that_o worthy_a divine_a dr._n ames_n of_o preach_v pray_v sacrament_n etc._n etc._n prescribe_v which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v observe_v in_o every_o congregation_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o and_o in_o his_o margin_n cite_v the_o answer_n page_z 12_o 13._o and_o further_o say_v in_o the_o objection_n that_o other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n of_o sacrifice_v of_o all_o the_o twelve_o tribe_n at_o jerusalem_n therefore_o all_o the_o synagogue_n be_v dependent_a church_n and_o jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a and_o high_a church_n answ_n to_o leave_v what_o be_v allege_v aâ—_n object_v by_o other_o and_o to_o consider_v only_o of_o that_o which_o concern_v ourselves_o because_o the_o synagogue_n in_o israel_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o great_a synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n therefore_o some_o will_v infer_v that_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n to_o this_o argument_n we_o be_v endeavour_v to_o give_v answer_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n where_o we_o show_v that_o the_o synagogue_n may_v be_v dependent_a and_o not_o complete_a church_n because_o the_o sacred_a ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n can_v not_o be_v perform_v in_o they_o but_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n complete_a and_o entire_a as_o have_v liberty_n to_o enjoy_v the_o use_n of_o all_o the_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o for_o both_o which_o particular_n we_o allege_v the_o testimony_n and_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n the_o sum_n be_v thus_o much_o if_o the_o synagogue_n can_v not_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n within_o themselves_o and_o our_o congregation_n may_v then_o though_o the_o synogogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi at_o jerusalem_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o congregation_n in_o these_o day_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n this_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o place_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n allege_v now_o what_o answer_n do_v he_o return_v to_o this_o passage_n true_o none_o at_o all_o that_o i_o can_v find_v none_o will_v you_o say_v how_o can_v that_o be_v do_v he_o not_o propound_v it_o in_o his_o 16_o the_o objection_n as_o that_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o answer_v i_o confess_v he_o do_v so_o but_o nevertheless_o all_o that_o he_o have_v set_v down_o for_o
answer_n be_v whole_o take_v up_o and_o spend_v in_o two_o other_o thing_n the_o objection_n which_o he_o propose_v as_o we_o be_v whole_o leave_v untouched_a those_o two_o thing_n be_v these_o the_o one_o a_o answer_n to_o another_o passage_n of_o we_o in_o another_o place_n of_o the_o answer_n the_o other_o a_o answer_n to_o the_o last_o part_n of_o his_o objection_n which_o himself_o do_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o say_n of_o other_o and_o not_o we_o and_o therefore_o he_o bring_v it_o in_o thus_o viz._n other_o say_v because_o there_o be_v a_o representative_a worship_n etc._n etc._n by_o those_o word_n other_o say_v plain_o declare_v that_o what_o he_o thus_o express_v proceed_v not_o from_o we_o but_o from_o other_o and_o so_o though_o he_o return_v answer_v to_o this_o say_n of_o other_o and_o to_o another_o say_n of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhore_n yet_o for_o this_o of_o we_o which_o he_o propose_v in_o this_o hâ—s_n objection_n i_o find_v no_o answer_n thereto_o at_o all_o and_o therefore_o i_o think_v the_o thing_n remain_v as_o it_o be_v unless_o we_o shall_v take_v his_o mere_a propose_v of_o it_o for_o a_o satisfy_a answer_n which_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o do_v nevertheless_o though_o he_o turn_v away_o from_o this_o passage_n of_o we_o without_o return_v any_o answer_n thereto_o yet_o there_o be_v another_o which_o he_o apply_v himself_o more_o direct_o against_o and_o therefore_o to_o this_o sixteen_o objection_n he_o beg_v his_o answer_n thus_o sure_o the_o aforesaid_a reverend_a brethren_n of_o new-england_n have_v these_o word_n but_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n be_v not_o proper_o a_o power_n and_o exercise_v of_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n but_o a_o power_n of_o doctrine_n and_o so_o a_o synod_n be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n from_o whence_o say_v he_o i_o infer_v that_o our_o brethren_n can_v deny_v a_o power_n of_o govern_v to_o a_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o proper_a govern_n as_o excommunication_n and_o ordination_n perform_v in_o their_o congregation_n but_o say_v i_o it_o be_v more_o proper_o govern_v as_o to_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v be_v a_o more_o noble_a eminent_a and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n than_o the_o execution_n of_o â—hese_n law_n and_o rule_n answ_n so_o then_o thâ—se_a former_a word_n of_o we_o propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o forsake_v and_o leave_v and_o instead_o of_o answer_v they_o he_o fall_v as_o we_o set_v upon_o other_o word_n which_o we_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o and_o apply_v himself_o to_o deal_v against_o those_o other_o by_o which_o deal_v the_o considerate_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o the_o former_a word_n be_v thus_o handsome_o forsake_v and_o leave_v do_v not_o still_o remain_v in_o their_o strength_n and_o whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v as_o good_a never_o to_o have_v propose_v they_o at_o all_o in_o his_o objection_n as_o have_v propose_v they_o to_o turn_v away_o direct_o and_o immediate_o from_o they_o unto_o other_o matter_n without_o return_v one_o word_n of_o answer_n to_o the_o former_a the_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v consider_v what_o this_o do_v import_n but_o such_o he_o be_v please_v to_o acquit_v the_o former_a and_o to_o apply_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o let_v we_o therefore_o leave_v the_o former_a in_o its_o strength_n and_o unshaken_a and_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o say_v in_o this_o other_o wherein_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n of_o govern_v either_o he_o meâ—nes_n this_o make_v law_n and_o rule_n proper_o so_o call_v or_o else_o he_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o law_n and_o rule_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o his_o name_n to_o command_v obedience_n thereto_o and_o it_o seem_v by_o the_o instance_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o parliament_n that_o he_o intend_v the_o former_a sense_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o answer_n be_v that_o this_o noble_a eminent_n and_o high_a act_n of_o govern_v as_o he_o call_v it_o do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o only_o to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n in_o heaven_n the_o scripture_n abundant_o witness_v that_o he_o only_o be_v the_o lord_n and_o law_n giver_n to_o his_o church_n lâ—â—_n 4._o 12._o isa_n 33._o 22._o for_o the_o clear_n of_o which_o point_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v consider_v that_o this_o learned_a brother_n himself_o do_v elsewhere_o direct_o and_o in_o express_a term_n coâ—fesse_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v in_o this_o matter_n for_o in_o one_o place_n speak_v in_o one_o place_n of_o a_o power_n to_o prescribe_v rule_n and_o law_n he_o do_v not_o only_o distinguish_v they_o from_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v by_o the_o word_n directive_n call_v they_o directive_n law_n but_o also_o for_o further_o explain_v his_o mind_n annex_v these_o word_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o law_n which_o the_o church_n prescribe_v christ_n be_v the_o only_a lawgiver_n due_a right_n page_n 395._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v speak_v of_o a_o society_n or_o a_o synod_n power_n of_o make_v law_n he_o add_v for_o explanation_n thus_o i_o take_v not_o here_o law_n for_o law_n proper_o so_o call_v but_o for_o ministerial_a directory_n have_v ecclesiastical_a authority_n so_o then_o the_o church_n or_o the_o synod_n have_v no_o power_n at_o all_o to_o make_v law_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o christ_n â—s_v the_o only_a law_n giver_n and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o govern_v power_n of_o synod_n which_o our_o brother_n will_v prove_v by_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a and_o high_a power_n of_o make_v law_n be_v not_o prove_v thereby_o at_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o this_o noble_a and_o eminent_a power_n of_o make_v law_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o any_o synod_n upon_o earth_n but_o to_o christ_n only_o and_o this_o may_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o what_o he_o say_v 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congregation_n or_o the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a and_o unjust_a or_o when_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a than_o we_o may_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n else_o we_o may_v not_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v not_o clear_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o because_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o these_o thing_n whether_o the_o party_n appeal_n or_o the_o congregation_n from_o who_o or_o the_o synod_n to_o who_o the_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n mention_v allege_v by_o our_o brother_n do_v afford_v we_o small_a help_n in_o the_o matter_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o what_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n do_v still_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v remain_v sound_n viz._n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n that_o controversy_n may_v not_o by_o appeal_n after_o appeal_n be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o to_o 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decree_n to_o send_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o other_o to_o jerusalem_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n as_o to_o a_o high_a judicature_n that_o there_o truth_n may_v be_v determine_v and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o do_v teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o allege_v for_o this_o in_o the_o margin_n the_o answer_n chap._n 4._o page_n 42._o ergo_fw-la say_v he_o they_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v by_o nature_n light_n warrantable_a as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n that_o appeal_n be_v warrantable_a and_o warrantable_a by_o nature_n light_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o supreme_a judicatorie_a this_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o have_v former_o yield_v no_o less_o but_o for_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o aim_v at_o viz._n appeal_v from_o a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o not_o be_v supreme_a 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they_o this_o reason_n we_o have_v render_v afore_o in_o the_o place_n which_o our_o author_n allege_v and_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v it_o and_o therefore_o we_o be_v still_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n as_o before_o that_o antioch_n be_v not_o dependent_a upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o church_n but_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o many_o may_v have_v who_o yet_o need_v the_o help_n of_o light_n from_o other_o for_o their_o direction_n in_o use_v their_o power_n great_a king_n and_o monarch_n have_v receive_v light_n from_o their_o counsellor_n without_o any_o impeachment_n of_o their_o independent_a power_n which_o they_o have_v in_o themselves_o and_o without_o any_o ascribe_v of_o that_o power_n to_o those_o their_o counselor_n as_o we_o say_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v antioch_n may_v send_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o help_v and_o yet_o this_o send_v neither_o prove_v right_a of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o be_v send_v unto_o nor_o want_v of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o who_o do_v send_v and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o brother_n say_v antioch_n because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n of_o the_o controversy_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o ergo_fw-la we_o must_v acknowledge_v appeal_v to_o be_v warrantable_a we_o will_v rather_o argue_v thus_o antioch_n want_v light_n ergo_fw-la counsel_n and_o light_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v elsewhere_o and_o thus_o we_o conceive_v the_o inference_n will_v hold_v but_o to_o say_v ergo_fw-la there_o must_v be_v appeal_v from_o the_o congregation_n to_o other_o in_o matter_n of_o jurisdiction_n this_o we_o conceive_v will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v king_n or_o other_o supreme_a civil_a ruler_n must_v seek_v light_a and_o direction_n from_o their_o counselor_n ergo_fw-la there_o lie_v a_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o those_o counselor_n which_o consequence_n none_o will_v maintain_v nor_o affirm_v if_o the_o scripture_n have_v say_v that_o antioch_n do_v never_o attempt_v to_o â—nd_v that_o controversy_n as_o know_v that_o the_o end_n thereof_o belong_v not_o to_o they_o but_o to_o other_o or_o if_o it_o have_v say_v that_o the_o censure_v of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n have_v be_v perform_v by_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n and_o not_o by_o they_o of_o antioch_n as_o not_o belong_v to_o antioch_n but_o to_o they_o of_o jerusalem_n than_o our_o brother_n may_v have_v have_v some_o ground_n from_o antioch_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n or_o warrantablenesse_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregationall_a church_n to_o other_o judicatories_n but_o such_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v say_v we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o example_n can_v be_v any_o ground_n for_o the_o establish_n of_o such_o appeal_n or_o the_o take_n away_o from_o congregationall_a church_n their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o especial_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v allege_v the_o same_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n consider_v what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o in_o this_o learned_a treatise_n of_o he_o wherein_o he_o examine_v that_o answer_n of_o we_o two_o passage_n in_o his_o treatise_n i_o propound_v to_o consideration_n which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v for_o that_o independent_a or_o supreme_a power_n in_o congregation_n which_o here_o he_o be_v dispute_v against_o the_o one_o be_v that_o which_o we_o touch_v before_o in_o his_o page_n 413._o where_o he_o say_v that_o synod_n in_o case_n of_o neglect_n of_o presbyterial_a church_n be_v to_o command_v the_o particular_a church_n who_o it_o concern_v to_o do_v their_o duty_n as_o in_o other_o particular_n there_o name_v so_o in_o excommunication_n of_o offender_n and_o further_o that_o the_o synod_n act._n 15._o be_v to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n to_o the_o presbytery_n of_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n in_o case_n of_o the_o obstinacy_n of_o these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n which_o i_o
within_o itself_o either_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n with_o only_a three_o elder_n be_v no_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o it_o must_v have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n within_o itself_o beside_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n national_n or_o catholic_a church_n as_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v p._n 307._o it_o be_v then_o a_o marvel_n why_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v only_o three_o elder_n may_v not_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v last_o his_o word_n be_v express_v page_n 338._o where_o there_o be_v not_o many_o church_n consociate_v than_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n if_o therefore_o a_o congregation_n have_v not_o above_o three_o elder_n yet_o be_v not_o consociate_v with_o 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the_o matter_n as_o dark_a as_o it_o be_v before_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o only_o such_o appeal_v be_v unwarrantable_a as_o be_v make_v to_o a_o court_n which_o be_v know_v shall_v never_o be_v and_o that_o all_o other_o be_v warrantable_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o appeal_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o all_o other_o court_n except_o only_o from_o a_o general_a council_n be_v warrantable_a for_o who_o do_v certain_o know_v that_o a_o general_a council_n will_v never_o be_v and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o class_n 〈◊〉_d synod_n and_o the_o national_n church_n be_v all_o deprive_v of_o supremacy_n and_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n three_o he_o say_v antioch_n appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a as_o our_o brethren_n say_v be_v no_o judaize_v but_o that_o which_o paul_n and_o the_o apostle_n be_v guilty_a of_o as_o well_o as_o we_o answ_n whether_o antioch_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a or_o no_o as_o we_o have_v never_o affirm_v so_o much_o so_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v now_o to_o inquire_v but_o this_o i_o stand_v upon_o that_o no_o scripture_n do_v witness_v that_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o jerusalem_n in_o the_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n about_o which_o our_o question_n do_v lie_v if_o they_o do_v appeal_v to_o they_o for_o a_o doctrinal_a decision_n or_o determination_n of_o the_o question_n that_o nothing_o hinder_v our_o cause_n who_o do_v not_o deny_v such_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n in_o synod_n but_o their_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v the_o thing_n that_o shall_v be_v prove_v last_o if_o this_o example_n of_o antioch_n do_v prove_v that_o there_o may_v be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n though_o those_o synod_n be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a then_o that_o which_o we_o say_v in_o the_o answer_n be_v here_o confess_v to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n be_v as_o defective_a and_o burdensome_a in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o as_o then_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a at_o jerusalem_n be_v many_o mile_n distant_a from_o such_o as_o dwell_v in_o the_o further_a part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n and_o special_o from_o the_o proselyte_n that_o dwell_v in_o other_o country_n so_o here_o our_o author_n seem_v to_o yield_v that_o in_o these_o day_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o must_v or_o may_v be_v appeal_n to_o synod_n though_o they_o be_v 200_o mile_n distant_a i_o hope_v then_o if_o other_o blame_v our_o way_n for_o make_v the_o gospel_n as_o defective_a and_o improvident_a as_o the_o law_n or_o more_o defective_a than_o it_o yet_o this_o our_o brother_n will_v not_o do_v so_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_n will_v acknowledge_v for_o we_o and_o with_o we_o that_o the_o way_n which_o himself_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n four_o he_o say_v matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o answ_n this_o may_v be_v grant_v in_o a_o safe_a sense_n without_o any_o prejudice_n at_o all_o unto_o our_o cause_n for_o we_o be_v well_o content_a that_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v many_o they_o may_v be_v handle_v by_o many_o so_o that_o each_o congregation_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o deal_v in_o they_o so_o far_o as_o they_o concern_v themselves_o and_o thus_o you_o have_v all_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v bring_v against_o that_o passage_n of_o we_o wherein_o we_o say_v it_o be_v not_o our_o way_n but_o they_o that_o do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o law_n instead_o whereof_o he_o be_v please_v to_o make_v we_o say_v that_o they_o do_v judaize_v but_o for_o eleer_v their_o way_n from_o that_o which_o we_o object_n against_o the_o same_o or_o for_o convince_a out_o way_n to_o be_v guilty_a thereof_o as_o by_o some_o have_v be_v object_v which_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o four_o particular_n of_o his_o answer_n that_o do_v any_o thing_n avail_v to_o either_o of_o these_o for_o if_o a_o rash_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n have_v more_o evil_a in_o it_o then_o speedy_a end_n of_o controversy_n have_v good_a if_o appeal_v without_o warrant_n from_o christ_n will_n be_v unlawful_a if_o antioch_n do_v appeal_v to_o a_o synod_n 200_o mile_n distant_a and_o if_o matter_n concern_v many_o church_n must_v be_v end_v by_o many_o which_o four_o particular_n be_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o his_o answer_n what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o for_o i_o will_v glad_o apply_v his_o answer_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o be_v there_o i_o say_v in_o all_o this_o that_o 〈◊〉_d convince_v our_o way_n to_o be_v more_o defective_a than_o the_o way_n under_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o do_v clear_v the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n from_o be_v true_o culpable_a thereof_o let_v all_o the_o evil_a that_o can_v be_v find_v in_o rash_a deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n be_v extend_v to_o the_o utmost_a and_o let_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o four_o particular_n be_v grant_v do_v all_o this_o sufficient_o clear_v it_o that_o the_o way_n which_o we_o plead_v for_o be_v more_o defective_a or_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n more_o perfect_a and_o excellent_a than_o the_o way_n that_o be_v use_v under_o the_o law_n if_o they_o do_v not_o amount_v to_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o they_o do_v not_o come_v up_o to_o clear_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n which_o for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v still_o remain_v as_o it_o be_v notwithstanding_o all_o that_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v chap._n x._o whether_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n be_v great_a than_o of_o sacrament_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v not_o exercise_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o well_o as_o one_o that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o a_o man_n may_v take_v on_o he_o the_o whole_a ministry_n have_v no_o outward_a call_n thereto_o and_o may_v not_o as_o well_o take_v on_o he_o one_o act_n of_o baptise_v or_o minister_a the_o lord_n supper_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v our_o reverend_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o page_n 453_o 454._o where_o dispute_v that_o there_o be_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n at_o jerusalem_n he_o say_v it_o be_v object_v by_o we_o allege_v the_o answer_n page_n 6._o that_o if_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n by_o divine_a institution_n and_o so_o the_o first_o congregation_n as_o jerusalem_n which_o do_v meet_v in_o solomon_n porch_n have_v once_o a_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n
necessity_n will_v warrant_v a_o man_n to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n without_o a_o call_n from_o the_o church_n which_o two_o saying_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v do_v not_o agree_v for_o in_o the_o one_o it_o be_v affirm_v that_o if_o they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o may_v by_o the_o like_a reason_n administer_v sacrament_n and_o the_o other_o say_v they_o may_v exercise_v discipline_n and_o censure_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o administer_v sacrament_n and_o yet_o both_o the_o say_n be_v express_v by_o the_o same_o author_n pen._n chap._n xi_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o neighbour_a church_n be_v not_o a_o loss_n and_o whether_o pretence_n of_o maladministration_n be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n for_o neighbour_a church_n to_o deprive_v a_o congregation_n of_o its_o power_n the_o next_o place_n where_o i_o find_v mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 455._o where_o he_o bring_v in_o these_o word_n under_o mr._n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o viz._n if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o a_o congregation_n be_v essential_o a_o church_n than_o this_o power_n agree_v to_o all_o church_n whether_o consociate_v or_o not_o consociate_v and_o without_o respect_n of_o what_o neighbour_n they_o have_v whether_o many_o or_o few_o whether_o any_o or_o none_o second_o a_o congregation_n itself_o alone_o can_v have_v sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o then_o be_v deprive_v of_o it_o when_o god_n send_v neighbour_n for_o then_o neighbour_a church_n which_o be_v give_v for_o help_n shall_v be_v give_v for_o loss_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o ames_n say_v no._n do_v synod_n say_v he_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n thus_o far_o mr._n rutherford_n who_o in_o his_o margin_n allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o 16._o pag._n 4_o 5._o answ_n in_o one_o of_o these_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n viz._n p._n 5._o there_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o be_v find_v that_o look_n towards_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o our_o brother_n have_v in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o this_o page_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v here_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o dr._n ames_n be_v more_o imperfect_o cite_v by_o our_o brother_n than_o they_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n for_o the_o answer_n allege_v they_o thus_o out_o of_o medulla_n theol._n lib._n 1._o chapter_n 3._o sect_n 27._o that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n do_v neither_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o ought_v by_o any_o mean_n to_o take_v away_o or_o impayer_n that_o liberty_n and_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n since_o it_o serve_v only_o for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o whereas_o our_o brother_n express_v only_o those_o first_o word_n that_o synod_n do_v not_o constitute_v a_o new_a form_n of_o a_o church_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n wherein_o the_o chief_a strength_n of_o dr._n ames_n his_o testimony_n do_v lie_v they_o he_o do_v whole_o omit_v and_o leave_v out_o he_o also_o leave_v out_o the_o assent_n which_o be_v give_v by_o mr._n paget_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o dr._n ames_n which_o assent_n as_o it_o be_v express_v in_o his_o defence_n p._n 107._o in_o these_o word_n this_o we_o do_v willing_o grant_v be_v also_o in_o the_o â—ame_n word_n allege_v by_o the_o answer_n in_o p._n 4._o but_o this_o be_v whole_o pass_v over_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n in_o silence_n now_o two_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v allege_v in_o the_o answer_n as_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o combination_n of_o church_n into_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v neither_o tollere_fw-la nor_o minuere_fw-la take_v away_o not_o impair_v or_o diminish_v the_o liberty_n or_o power_n of_o church_n but_o only_o serve_v for_o the_o direct_n and_o further_a of_o the_o same_o and_o the_o one_o of_o they_o be_v the_o chief_a patron_n of_o the_o power_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n it_o be_v some_o marvel_n to_o i_o that_o no_o word_n of_o answer_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o they_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n but_o that_o their_o word_n be_v thus_o pass_v by_o with_o silence_n and_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o they_o not_o so_o much_o as_o mention_v how_o ever_o this_o be_v clear_a that_o he_o that_o gainsay_v the_o answer_n in_o this_o passage_n have_v not_o only_o the_o answer_n but_o also_o the_o reverend_a author_n here_o mention_v to_o be_v against_o he_o but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o answer_n which_o he_o subjoin_v in_o these_o word_n viz._n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n ergo_fw-la a_o total_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n or_o congregation_n consociate_v it_o follow_v no_o way_n answ_n i_o desire_v the_o reason_n may_v be_v lay_v down_o according_a to_o our_o true_a meaning_n therein_o and_o in_o its_o full_a strength_n and_o then_o the_o former_a part_n thereof_o must_v not_o only_o speak_v of_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n that_o want_v neighbour_n but_o of_o entire_a power_n for_o thereof_o be_v the_o question_n and_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n the_o term_n must_v no_o be_v a_o church_n consociate_v but_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n now_o if_o entire_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n do_v flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n this_o entireness_n of_o power_n muâ—t_v thereupon_o be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o then_o demand_v why_o the_o like_a entireness_n of_o power_n must_v not_o be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v find_v in_o this_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v either_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n must_v be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n or_o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n must_v be_v grant_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n risibility_n and_o power_n of_o reason_n flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n and_o power_n to_o defend_v itself_o and_o purge_v out_o excrement_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o power_n to_o govern_v itself_o with_o family_n government_n flow_v in_o like_a sort_n from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n therefore_o we_o must_v not_o grant_v these_o power_n to_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o man_n such_o a_o body_n or_o such_o a_o family_n as_o be_v alone_o and_o deny_v the_o same_o to_o one_o that_o have_v neighbour_n but_o must_v grant_v they_o alike_o unto_o all_o because_o this_o power_n flow_v from_o their_o very_a essence_n which_o be_v as_o true_o find_v in_o such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n as_o it_o be_v in_o those_o that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v in_o other_o case_n and_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o the_o power_n of_o the_o jurisdiction_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o church_n shall_v therefore_o be_v entire_a in_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n and_o yet_o not_o entire_a in_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n though_o this_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o why_o these_o congregation_n i_o say_v shall_v thus_o great_o differ_v in_o their_o power_n and_o yet_o be_v alike_o in_o their_o essence_n from_o whence_o their_o power_n do_v flow_v for_o my_o part_n i_o yet_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o reason_n nor_o do_v that_o satisfy_v which_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o allege_v that_o one_o pastor_n in_o a_o congregation_n have_v as_o a_o pastor_n power_n to_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n and_o yet_o when_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o help_v he_o he_o have_v not_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o rebuke_v sin_n and_o the_o sole_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n but_o these_o three_o pastor_n have_v power_n with_o he_o this_o i_o conceive_v do_v not_o help_v the_o matter_n at_o all_o for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o these_o three_o pastor_n be_v add_v to_o the_o first_o have_v each_o of_o they_o the_o like_a power_n as_o the_o first_o have_v yet_o the_o power_n of_o the_o
and_o hold_v by_o the_o whole_a this_o reason_n we_o see_v be_v now_o remove_v and_o utter_o take_v away_o forasmuch_o as_o all_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n which_o be_v the_o inevitable_a now_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o the_o general_a council_n than_o there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o council_n for_o such_o a_o end_n and_o if_o no_o appeal_n to_o that_o council_n than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o always_o hold_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n from_o the_o lesser_a assembly_n to_o the_o great_a and_o if_o this_o do_v not_o always_o hold_v then_o there_o may_v be_v independent_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o congregation_n without_o appeal_n from_o the_o same_o though_o it_o be_v a_o lesser_a assembly_n than_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n and_o thus_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v except_o this_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o supreme_a or_o independent_a power_n which_o be_v deny_v to_o the_o general_a council_n can_v be_v prove_v to_o be_v in_o the_o class_n synod_n or_o national_a presbytery_n which_o we_o think_v can_v be_v do_v indeed_o to_o say_v on_o the_o one_o side_n that_o 〈◊〉_d be_v no_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o congregation_n and_o to_o say_v on_o the_o other_o side_n that_o there_o be_v no_o power_n at_o all_o of_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n this_o do_v inevitable_o lay_v a_o necessity_n of_o such_o independent_a power_n in_o these_o intermediat_a assembly_n of_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_a presbytery_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v no_o such_o power_n at_o all_o appoint_v by_o christ_n in_o any_o church_n assembly_n on_o earth_n now_o if_o such_o independent_a power_n be_v give_v to_o the_o presbytery_n mention_v as_o it_o needs_o must_v if_o it_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o general_a council_n nor_o in_o the_o single_a congregation_n than_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o scripture_n or_o scripture_n such_o power_n in_o the_o say_a presbytery_n be_v ground_v and_o build_v and_o whether_o the_o say_a power_n belong_v unto_o they_o all_o or_o only_o unto_o some_o of_o they_o and_o which_o they_o be_v and_o why_o not_o to_o the_o rest_n as_o well_o yea_o why_o not_o to_o the_o single_a congregation_n nor_o yet_o to_o the_o general_a council_n as_o well_o as_o to_o any_o of_o they_o when_o this_o quaere_fw-la be_v answer_v and_o the_o answer_n sufficient_o prove_v by_o scripture_n than_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o reason_n for_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o such_o assembly_n over_o the_o particular_a congregation_n then_o yet_o we_o have_v see_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n this_o quaere_fw-la with_o the_o rest_n i_o leave_v to_o our_o brethren_n consideration_n chap._n xx._n if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o it_o will_v not_o thence_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o choose_v the_o seven_o deacon_n act._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a pag_n 482._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n for_o which_o he_o allege_v the_o answ_n pag._n 20._o and_o then_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n thus_o i_o see_v this_o say_v without_o any_o approbation_n church_n depend_v on_o many_o above_o they_o for_o unity_n but_o what_o consquence_n in_o this_o ergâ—_fw-la they_o depend_v upon_o one_o visible_a monarch_n it_o be_v a_o unjust_a consequence_n answ_n with_o favour_n of_o so_o worthy_a a_o man_n he_o great_o wrong_v our_o word_n and_o thereby_o wrong_v the_o reader_n by_o leave_v out_o those_o word_n wherein_o the_o plainness_n and_o strength_n of_o our_o argumentation_n lie_v therefore_o i_o be_o force_v here_o to_o relate_v the_o order_n and_o progress_n of_o the_o dispute_n in_o that_o script_n of_o we_o and_o to_o set_v down_o our_o word_n there_o use_v because_o as_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v set_v they_o down_o the_o strength_n of_o consequence_n be_v suppress_v from_o the_o reader_n knowledge_n and_o so_o indeed_o his_o answer_n be_v make_v easy_a but_o the_o naked_a truth_n lie_v thus_o our_o reverend_a brother_n to_o who_o treatise_n we_o return_v answer_v in_o that_o small_a piece_n of_o we_o have_v say_v that_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o whether_o commonwealth_n or_o army_n university_n or_o navy_n he_o present_o add_v by_o way_n of_o prevention_n not_o that_o therefore_o this_o government_n of_o church_n shall_v as_o those_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n upon_o earth_n in_o answer_v whereto_o beside_o other_o thing_n we_o have_v these_o word_n pag._n 21._o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o than_o we_o see_v not_o how_o it_o will_v be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n church_n must_v end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n if_o it_o be_v once_o clear_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n whatever_o so_o to_o end_v so_o there_o be_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o this_o as_o for_o the_o other_o which_o last_o word_n if_o it_o be_v once_o prove_v etc._n etc._n mr._n rutherford_n whole_o leave_v out_o and_o suppress_v and_o so_o make_v his_o own_o answer_n more_o easy_a but_o i_o desire_v so_o much_o favour_n which_o i_o think_v be_v but_o reasonable_a that_o he_o that_o will_v undertake_v to_o answer_v our_o writing_n will_v represent_v our_o word_n and_o argue_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o then_o i_o be_o content_a that_o the_o same_o may_v come_v under_o trial_n now_o our_o argue_v be_v this_o if_o church_n must_v be_v dependent_a upon_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n upon_o this_o reason_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n to_o all_o society_n whatsoever_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n let_v it_o be_v once_o prove_v which_o be_v by_o mr._n herle_v affirm_v that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n and_o it_o will_v thereupon_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v likewise_o end_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n if_o we_o yield_v thus_o much_o that_o what_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n the_o same_o must_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o government_n of_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v then_o follow_v that_o if_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v other_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v do_v so_o also_o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o which_o the_o consequence_n be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o our_o brethren_n think_v so_o strong_a viz._n that_o because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n therefore_o there_o must_v be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o government_n of_o synod_n if_o any_o say_v the_o consequence_n be_v not_o alike_o necessary_a in_o both_o case_n because_o the_o ground_n do_v not_o hold_v alike_o in_o both_o for_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v not_o teach_v all_o society_n on_o earth_n to_o end_v in_o a_o monarchy_n as_o it_o do_v teach_v a_o communion_n and_o assistance_n in_o government_n the_o answer_n in_o that_o we_o have_v plain_o say_v the_o same_o in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o answerer_n allege_v viz._n p._n 20_o 21._o but_o the_o main_a question_n lie_v not_o there_o whether_o other_o society_n do_v end_n in_o monarchy_n for_o though_o the_o reverend_a author_n who_o we_o there_o do_v answer_v do_v seem_v so_o to_o judge_v yet_o we_o have_v there_o plain_o declare_v that_o we_o conceive_v of_o that_o matter_n otherwise_o but_o here_o do_v lie_v the_o main_a question_n viz._n suppose_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o light_n of_o nature_n do_v teach_v all_o society_n to_o end_n in_o a_o monarchy_n on_o earth_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o church_n must_v also_o so_o end_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n will_v plain_o appear_v to_o any_o that_o shall_v peruse_v the_o place_n and_o to_o this_o question_n our_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o consequence_n for_o
against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherforâ—_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o pâ—â—â—sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o
synod_n we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v blame_v though_o we_o give_v not_o a_o synod_n that_o name_n answ_n pag._n 1._o the_o most_o that_o we_o have_v yield_v in_o this_o point_n be_v this_o that_o for_o the_o name_n we_o will_v not_o contend_v and_o that_o if_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n then_o since_o they_o have_v power_n by_o disputation_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n they_o be_v rather_o a_o teach_v then_o a_o govern_v church_n answer_n pag._n 1._o &_o 7._o this_o be_v all_o we_o have_v say_v and_o we_o desire_v our_o word_n may_v not_o be_v stretch_v beyond_o our_o intent_n and_o scope_n therein_o but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n will_v hence_o infer_v i_o infer_v say_v he_o that_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n as_o our_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o forename_a author_n teach_v be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n that_o can_v be_v perform_v in_o no_o single_a congregation_n on_o earth_n for_o a_o doctrinal_a cannon_n of_o one_o congregation_n can_v lay_v any_o ecclesiastical_a tie_n upon_o many_o church_n ergo_fw-la by_o this_o reason_n our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n answ_n when_o he_o say_v the_o brethren_n of_o new-england_n and_o the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n do_v teach_v a_o synodical_a teach_n by_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n and_o aledge_v for_o proof_n in_o his_o margin_n answ_n 7._o to_o 32._o q._n 9_o 14._o page_n 43_o 44._o and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v chap._n 4._o pag._n 40._o 41_o with_o favour_n of_o so_o learned_a a_o man_n we_o must_v return_v this_o answer_n that_o neither_o of_o the_o palces_fw-la allege_v will_v make_v good_a his_o purpose_n in_o as_o much_o as_o neither_o of_o they_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v they_o to_o teach_v viz._n such_o synodical_a teach_n as_o give_v out_o decree_v tie_v many_o church_n let_v the_o place_n be_v view_v and_o the_o thing_n will_v be_v find_v as_o i_o say_v and_o therefore_o how_o they_o can_v be_v say_v to_o teach_v that_o which_o they_o neither_o teach_v nor_o mention_v do_v surmount_v my_o ability_n to_o conceive_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v know_v what_o it_o be_v that_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o place_n it_o be_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v requisite_a that_o church_n shall_v seek_v for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n from_o other_o church_n as_o antioch_n do_v send_v unto_o jerusalem_n in_o a_o question_n which_o they_o want_v ability_n to_o determine_v among_o themselves_o and_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v synod_n and_o that_o we_o think_v that_o meeting_n act_n 15._o might_n be_v such_o a_o one_o the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o formâ—â—_n of_o the_o place_n and_o the_o other_o in_o the_o other_o but_o for_o give_v out_o synodical_a decree_n tie_v many_o church_n this_o same_o be_v it_o within_o the_o power_n of_o synod_n or_o otherwise_o be_v 〈◊〉_d teach_v at_o all_o in_o either_o of_o the_o place_n except_o we_o shall_v say_v which_o we_o think_v be_v unreasonable_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o synod_n nor_o consult_v of_o other_o church_n for_o light_n and_o counsel_n and_o advice_n but_o there_o must_v be_v in_o those_o other_o church_n so_o consult_v withal_o a_o power_n to_o give_v out_o bind_v decree_n yea_o decree_n that_o shall_v bind_v or_o tie_v many_o church_n we_o think_v this_o latter_a do_v no_o way_n necessary_o follow_v upon_o the_o former_a and_o therefore_o though_o the_o place_n allege_v do_v speak_v to_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o latter_a which_o this_o author_n report_v they_o to_o teach_v they_o do_v not_o teach_v at_o all_o second_o i_o answer_v further_o that_o if_o such_o a_o doctrine_n be_v indeed_o teach_v in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v or_o any_o other_o yet_o the_o inference_n which_o he_o will_v thence_o bring_v in_o that_o then_o our_o congregation_n shall_v be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n thâ—s_v same_o do_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o synagogue_n be_v dependent_a on_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_n not_o only_o for_o light_n and_o counsel_n no_o nor_o only_o for_o doctrinal_a cannon_n or_o decree_n but_o also_o for_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n that_o synodrion_n be_v their_o supreme_a court_n to_o who_o sentence_n they_o be_v all_o bind_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n to_o submit_v as_o be_v clear_a deut._n 17._o 11_o 12._o and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v which_o yet_o we_o do_v not_o see_v prove_v that_o synod_n may_v give_v out_o decree_n and_o doctrinal_a cannon_n that_o shall_v tie_v many_o church_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o congregation_n shall_v therefore_o be_v dependent_a as_o be_v the_o jewish_a synagogue_n except_o it_o be_v also_o prove_v that_o they_o must_v depend_v upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n as_o well_o as_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n yea_o and_o so_o depend_v as_o that_o the_o sentence_n of_o those_o synod_n must_v be_v obey_v under_o pain_n of_o death_n sure_o the_o synagogue_n and_o every_o member_n of_o they_o be_v in_o this_o sort_n dependent_a upon_o the_o supreme_a synedrion_fw-mi but_o we_o hope_v 〈◊〉_d reverend_a brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o congregation_n must_v in_o this_o sort_n be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a this_o we_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o every_o member_n of_o a_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o depend_v upon_o the_o pastor_n of_o that_o church_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o he_o must_v depend_v upon_o one_o pastor_n alone_o in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o doctrine_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o one_o pastor_n alone_o but_o discipline_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n which_o one_o pastor_n alone_o can_v be_v and_o therefore_o if_o congregation_n be_v to_o be_v dependent_a upon_o synod_n in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v be_v dependent_a in_o point_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o discipline_n three_o say_v he_o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o make_v jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a church_n and_o the_o synagogue_n dependent_a church_n because_o it_o it_o be_v lawful_a only_o at_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_n for_o i_o hold_v that_o jerusalem_n be_v a_o dependent_a church_n no_o less_o than_o the_o small_a synagogue_n in_o all_o their_o trybe_n and_o so_o he_o proceed_v large_o to_o show_v that_o sacrifice_a at_o jerusalem_n do_v not_o make_v jerusalem_n supreme_a answ_n it_o this_o be_v even_o so_o as_o be_v plead_v yet_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v of_o the_o completeness_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o of_o their_o dependency_n be_v not_o at_o all_o remove_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o we_o do_v not_o make_v the_o synagogue_n dependent_a nor_o jerusalem_n supreme_a mere_o upon_o this_o ground_n because_o jerusalem_n alone_o be_v the_o place_n of_o sacrifice_v but_o this_o be_v the_o ground_n upon_o which_o chief_o we_o go_v that_o at_o jerusalem_n be_v the_o synedrion_fw-mi upon_o who_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v for_o judgement_n and_o from_o who_o sentence_n there_o be_v no_o appeal_n which_o ground_n we_o still_o think_v do_v prove_v both_o the_o incomplearnesse_n of_o the_o synagogue_n and_o the_o supremacy_n of_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi and_o the_o contrary_a to_o this_o must_v be_v clear_v if_o our_o tenent_n in_o this_o matter_n be_v remove_v true_a it_o be_v we_o think_v it_o some_o argument_n of_o the_o synagogue_n incompleatnesse_n and_o imperfection_n that_o they_o be_v not_o permit_v to_o enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n which_o be_v of_o ordinary_a use_n but_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jerusalem_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o this_o only_a that_o there_o be_v the_o place_n for_o sacrifice_n but_o in_o this_o withal_o that_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a be_v there_o upon_o which_o all_o israel_n must_v depend_v and_o from_o the_o which_o there_o must_v be_v no_o appeal_n and_o yet_o this_o supremacy_n we_o do_v not_o place_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v a_o part_n from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o say_v pag._n 415._o that_o we_o may_v as_o well_o conclude_v that_o all_o the_o city_n and_o incorporation_n of_o england_n be_v dependent_a upon_o london_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o parliament_n use_v there_o to_o sit_v i_o conceive_v the_o comparison_n do_v not_o suit_n because_o as_o we_o do_v not_o place_v the_o supremacy_n in_o london_n or_o in_o westminster_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o parliament_n but_o in_o the_o parliament_n which_o use_v
and_o clear_v which_o here_o our_o brother_n do_v not_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_n deny_v the_o same_o furthermore_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n within_o a_o congregation_n a_o classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n as_o here_o our_o brother_n affirm_v then_o what_o shall_v become_v of_o that_o which_o he_o tell_v we_o elsewhere_o viz._n page_n 483._o that_o that_o remedy_n of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n for_o sure_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o any_o of_o the_o lesser_a church_n nor_o yet_o in_o the_o national_n church_n one_o will_v think_v that_o of_o our_o saviour_n shall_v be_v needful_a in_o some_o church_n above_o the_o national_n or_o if_o it_o be_v nor_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o national_n than_o one_o will_v think_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o indepencie_n of_o policy_n in_o the_o national_n church_n or_o in_o some_o of_o the_o former_a for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o difficulty_n will_v be_v expedit_v i_o mean_v how_o both_o these_o say_n of_o our_o brother_n can_v stand_v good_a except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o which_o i_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o say_v viz._n that_o independency_n of_o policy_n be_v no_o where_o and_o yet_o i_o can_v see_v but_o this_o must_v be_v say_v if_o both_o the_o other_o say_n stand_v good_a for_o if_o independency_n of_o policy_n be_v neither_o in_o the_o national_n church_n nor_o in_o any_o church_n above_o it_o nor_o in_o any_o church_n below_o it_o i_o know_v not_o where_o we_o shall_v have_v it_o again_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n afore_o name_v what_o shall_v we_o say_v to_o that_o passage_n where_o our_o brother_n do_v very_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n affirm_v further_o that_o there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o pag_n 482._o for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o any_o church_n below_o a_o general_a council_n one_o will_v think_v there_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o general_a council_n some_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n yea_o and_o a_o independent_a power_n too_o or_o if_o there_o be_v not_o such_o power_n in_o the_o general_a council_n nor_o yet_o in_o the_o national_n church_n nor_o in_o any_o church_n below_o the_o national_n we_o must_v then_o say_v there_o be_v no_o independent_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o any_o church_n upon_o earth_n which_o latter_a if_o it_o be_v not_o own_v as_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v noâ—_n i_o know_v not_o how_o the_o other_o two_o can_v both_o stand_v though_o appeal_n be_v warrant_v both_o in_o church_n and_o state_n by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n yet_o appeal_v to_o exotique_a and_o foreign_a judicature_n be_v not_o warrant_v by_o any_o such_o light_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_n answ_n let_v this_o be_v grant_v also_o and_o be_v we_o ever_o a_o whit_n near_o to_o the_o point_n than_o before_o be_v this_o good_a argue_v appeal_v to_o exotique_a indicature_n be_v not_o warrantable_a ergo_fw-la a_o synod_n and_o not_o the_o congregation_n be_v the_o supreme_a judicature_n be_v this_o consequence_n strong_a and_o clear_a if_o it_o be_v not_o how_o be_v our_o tenent_n remove_v if_o our_o brother_n intend_v it_o not_o for_o a_o removal_n thereof_o why_o be_v it_o bring_v in_o for_o answer_v to_o a_o objection_n propose_v by_o himself_o as_o we_o further_o let_v this_o sentence_n be_v compare_v with_o the_o former_a immediate_o precede_v and_o more_o difficulty_n still_o arise_v for_o in_o this_o he_o tell_v we_o we_o see_v that_o appeal_v to_o foreign_a judicature_n be_v not_o warrantable_a and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o as_o we_o hear_v afore_o that_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n within_o a_o congregation_n a_o classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n now_o to_o find_v how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v i_o be_o at_o a_o loss_n for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o the_o congregation_n nor_o the_o other_o church_n mention_v i_o shall_v have_v think_v it_o may_v have_v be_v lawful_a to_o have_v appeal_v from_o they_o to_o other_o for_o why_o may_v there_o not_o be_v appeal_n from_o they_o in_o who_o no_o independency_n of_o policy_n be_v seat_v yet_o now_o we_o be_v restrain_v from_o such_o appeal_n for_o that_o all_o other_o judicature_n be_v account_v foreign_a and_o exotique_a so_o that_o of_o two_o sentence_n the_o one_o immediate_o follow_v upon_o the_o other_o the_o former_a tell_v we_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n mention_v which_o be_v domesticque_a and_o near_a and_o the_o other_o tell_v we_o that_o other_o church_n be_v so_o exotique_a and_o foreign_a that_o appeal_v to_o they_o be_v unwarrantable_a and_o what_o to_o say_v for_o the_o reconcile_n of_o these_o thing_n i_o must_v confess_v i_o find_v not_o i_o grant_v it_o be_v true_a appeal_v to_o exotique_a and_o foreign_a judicature_n be_v not_o warrantable_a but_o why_o be_v we_o not_o certify_v what_o judicature_n be_v to_o be_v account_v exotique_a and_o foreign_a for_o here_o i_o conceive_v lie_v the_o pinch_n of_o the_o question_n and_o unless_o this_o be_v determine_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o leave_v at_o uncertainty_n for_o as_o in_o civil_a state_n there_o be_v many_o city_n and_o town_n which_o have_v independent_a power_n within_o themselves_o as_o geneva_n strasburgh_n zuricke_n basill_n and_o many_o other_o and_o appeal_v from_o any_o of_o these_o though_o to_o the_o city_n or_o town_n next_o adjoin_v will_v be_v to_o a_o judicature_n exotique_a or_o foreign_a so_o some_o be_v apt_a to_o conceive_v the_o like_a of_o congregationall_a church_n and_o therefore_o it_o have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v that_o appeal_v from_o such_o church_n be_v not_o to_o exotique_a and_o foreign_a judicature_n for_o if_o this_o be_v not_o clear_v the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o appeal_v to_o foreign_a and_o exotique_a power_n may_v be_v grant_v and_o the_o question_n will_v remain_v uncleer_v church_n appeal_v tho_o warrant_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n yet_o it_o be_v suppose_v they_o be_v rational_a and_o ground_v on_o good_a reason_n as_o that_o either_o the_o matter_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o congregation_n or_o then_o it_o be_v certain_a or_o moral_o presume_v the_o congregation_n will_v be_v partial_a or_o unjust_a or_o the_o business_n be_v difficile_a and_o intricate_a and_o if_o appeal_v be_v groundless_a and_o unjust_a neither_o christ_n nor_o nature_n light_n do_v warrant_v they_o yea_o in_o such_o case_n the_o supremacy_n from_o which_o no_o man_n can_v lawful_o appeal_v lie_v sometime_o in_o the_o congregation_n sometime_o in_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n so_o as_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o appeal_v for_o illud_fw-la tantum_fw-la possumus_fw-la quod_fw-la jure_fw-la possumus_fw-la answ_n the_o short_a sum_n be_v thus_o much_o that_o appeal_n be_v then_o lawful_a when_o there_o be_v just_a ground_n and_o reason_n for_o they_o otherwise_o they_o be_v unlawful_a now_o first_o of_o all_o how_o do_v this_o prove_v for_o we_o will_v still_o keep_v to_o the_o point_n the_o necessity_n of_o that_o consequence_n whereof_o we_o speak_v afore_o viz._n that_o if_o appeal_v be_v lawful_a then_o there_o be_v a_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n i_o conceive_v it_o be_v not_o prove_v hereby_o all_o but_o contrary_o appeal_n may_v be_v grant_v lawful_a when_o there_o be_v just_a reason_n and_o ground_n for_o they_o and_o yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n be_v still_o unclear_v next_o it_o still_o remain_v a_o question_n who_o must_v be_v judge_n of_o the_o reasonableness_n of_o the_o appeal_v and_o of_o those_o case_n that_o be_v put_v to_o show_v when_o they_o be_v reasonable_a viz._n that_o the_o matter_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o congregation_n and_o the_o rest_n that_o be_v name_v and_o unless_o it_o be_v clear_v to_o who_o it_o belong_v to_o judge_v these_o thing_n we_o be_v still_o leave_v at_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o main_a matter_n viz._n in_o who_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v from_o who_o we_o may_v not_o appeal_v for_o to_o say_v as_o our_o reverend_a author_n do_v that_o in_o some_o case_n the_o supremacy_n from_o which_o no_o man_n can_v lawful_o appeal_v lie_v in_o the_o congregation_n and_o sometime_o it_o do_v not_o appeal_v when_o they_o be_v ground_v upon_o good_a reason_n be_v warrantable_a else_o they_o be_v not_o when_o the_o matter_n belong_v not_o to_o the_o
conceive_v be_v very_o true_o speak_v and_o thereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v a_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o that_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o no_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o for_o â—ith_o the_o synod_n be_v only_o to_o command_v the_o church_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n and_o to_o remit_v the_o censure_n of_o offender_n to_o the_o church_n themselves_o to_o who_o the_o offender_n belong_v it_o plain_o appear_v thereby_o where_o the_o supremacy_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v lie_v the_o other_o place_n be_v in_o his_o page_n 307._o where_o we_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a and_o quo_fw-la ad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ministerialis_fw-la according_a to_o the_o entire_a essence_n of_o a_o ministerial_a church_n be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n as_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n now_o if_o there_o be_v such_o perfect_a &_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n i_o know_v not_o how_o there_o can_v be_v such_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o other_o as_o he_o be_v plead_v for_o nor_o how_o that_o supreme_a and_o independent_a power_n in_o congregation_n can_v be_v deny_v which_o here_o he_o dispute_v against_o for_o let_v this_o complete_a and_o perfect_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v acknowledge_v as_o due_a to_o such_o church_n and_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n will_v be_v of_o small_a necessity_n or_o use_n i_o know_v indeed_o this_o reverend_a author_n say_v in_o the_o page_n last_o mention_v and_o within_o a_o few_o line_n of_o the_o word_n which_o i_o have_v here_o allege_v that_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o a_o part_n of_o the_o presbytery_n that_o it_o have_v not_o a_o whole_a entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n over_o its_o own_o member_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o the_o consociate_v church_n must_v have_v a_o power_n over_o the_o member_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o word_n i_o confess_v seem_v not_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o former_a because_o in_o the_o one_o entire_a complete_a intensive_a power_n be_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v say_v to_o be_v as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o great_a church_n but_o it_o be_v not_o the_o latter_a word_n but_o the_o former_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o and_o by_o they_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o supremacy_n of_o congregation_n be_v establish_v and_o the_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n from_o they_o to_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v clear_o take_v away_o for_o if_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v as_o entire_a perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o the_o congregation_n 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punish_v thief_n and_o such_o other_o malefactor_n only_o for_o this_o reason_n because_o to_o their_o knowledge_n other_o corporation_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a lewd_a person_n i_o suppose_v it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v the_o insufficiency_n and_o invalidity_n of_o such_o consequence_n and_o therefore_o if_o antioch_n do_v know_v that_o other_o church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a offender_n as_o themselves_o be_v trouble_v withal_o this_o need_v not_o to_o hinder_v but_o they_o may_v determine_v question_n that_o arise_v among_o themselves_o and_o may_v censure_v such_o of_o their_o member_n as_o shall_v trouble_v the_o church_n or_o brethren_n therewith_o and_o obstinate_o persist_v in_o so_o do_v this_o be_v consider_v withal_o that_o in_o thus_o do_v they_o do_v not_o go_v beyond_o their_o line_n nor_o meddle_v with_o matter_n any_o far_o but_o as_o they_o be_v within_o their_o compass_n for_o when_o divers_a church_n be_v trouble_v with_o the_o like_a corruption_n in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n and_o some_o one_o of_o those_o church_n by_o use_v the_o key_n of_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n or_o both_o do_v endeavour_v the_o removal_n of_o these_o corruption_n they_o do_v not_o hereby_o attempt_v and_o endeavour_v to_o remove_v they_o out_o of_o other_o church_n which_o may_v be_v a_o appearance_n of_o stretch_v their_o line_n beyond_o their_o compass_n but_o out_o of_o their_o own_o church_n and_o only_o so_o far_o as_o concern_v themselves_o and_o in_o so_o do_v no_o man_n can_v just_o say_v they_o meddle_v further_o than_o their_o power_n do_v reach_v but_o he_o give_v another_o reason_n why_o antioch_n have_v not_o right_a to_o determine_v the_o question_n and_o this_o be_v take_v from_o the_o strong_a party_n that_o be_v in_o antioch_n against_o the_o truth_n which_o be_v such_o as_o that_o they_o oppose_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n concern_v which_o he_o say_v that_o when_o the_o great_a part_n of_o a_o church_n as_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n as_o be_v clear_a act._n 15._o 2._o he_o believe_v in_o that_o they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o for_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o truth_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o appeal_v must_v be_v necessary_a answ_n how_o be_v it_o clear_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n the_o text_n do_v not_o say_v so_o much_o but_o only_o this_o that_o certain_a man_n which_o come_v from_o judea_n teach_v the_o brethren_n and_o say_v except_o you_o be_v circumcise_a you_o can_v be_v save_v and_o that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n have_v no_o small_a dissension_n and_o disputation_n with_o they_o about_o the_o matter_n and_o that_o in_o the_o issue_n they_o determine_v that_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o certain_a other_o shall_v go_v up_o to_o jerusalem_n about_o the_o question_n thus_o much_o the_o scripture_n witness_v act._n 15._o 1_o 2._o but_o whether_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o corrupt_a doctrine_n at_o antioch_n be_v the_o major_a or_o the_o minor_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o text_n do_v not_o express_v except_o we_o shall_v say_v that_o where_o a_o false_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o some_o and_o great_o oppose_v and_o dispute_v against_o by_o other_o there_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o the_o great_a part_n be_v taint_v with_o that_o false_a doctrine_n which_o we_o think_v be_v no_o good_a consequence_n and_o therefore_o whereas_o our_o author_n say_v the_o great_a part_n of_o this_o church_n be_v against_o the_o truth_n and_o that_o so_o much_o be_v clear_a from_o verse_n 2._o i_o answer_v first_o that_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v this_o clearness_n neither_o from_o verse_n 2_o nor_o from_o any_o other_o place_n of_o the_o chapter_n next_o suppose_v this_o be_v clear_a this_o may_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v ability_n and_o light_n to_o end_v the_o matter_n but_o must_v it_o need_v argue_v that_o they_o want_v right_a though_o they_o have_v be_v able_a or_o shall_v we_o say_v that_o they_o who_o want_v ability_n to_o do_v thing_n as_o they_o shall_v be_v do_v do_v therefore_o want_v right_a to_o â—â—alâ—_n in_o they_o at_o all_o i_o conceive_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o this_o right_n in_o church_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n and_o this_o want_n of_o ability_n be_v only_o accidental_a and_o therefore_o this_o latter_a can_v total_o hinder_v the_o former_a that_o light_n of_o government_n be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a to_o every_o church_n our_o brother_n own_o word_n do_v testify_v page_n 341._o where_o he_o say_v this_o viz._n suppose_v that_o christ_n have_v a_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v moral_a that_o she_o have_v power_n of_o government_n also_o in_o so_o far_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n yea_o power_n of_o government_n upon_o this_o supposition_n be_v natural_a or_o rather_o connaturall_a and_o in_o page_n 307_o he_o say_v as_o be_v allege_v before_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n ordinary_a intensive_a be_v as_o perfect_a and_o complete_a in_o one_o single_a congregation_n as_o in_o a_o provincial_n or_o in_o a_o national_n yea_o as_o in_o the_o catholic_a visible_a body_n whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o in_o page_n 383._o he_o say_v that_o to_o a_o congregation_n christ_n have_v give_v by_o a_o immediate_a flux_n from_o himself_o a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinsciâ—ally_o in_o it_o derive_v from_o none_o but_o immediate_o from_o jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o like_a he_o say_v of_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n now_o whether_o antioch_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o hold_v or_o a_o presbyterial_a as_o be_v hold_v by_o this_o our_o brother_n yet_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o those_o word_n of_o his_o here_o allege_a that_o be_v essential_o a_o church_n it_o have_v a_o political_a church_n power_n intrinscical_o within_o itself_o yet_o a_o perfect_a and_o complete_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n yea_o and_o such_o a_o power_n as_o be_v natural_a or_o connaturall_a unto_o she_o as_o she_o be_v a_o church_n but_o now_o the_o light_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v be_v enable_v well_o to_o use_v this_o power_n do_v not_o add_v any_o power_n unto_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o not_o do_v the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v but_o accidental_a deprive_v they_o of_o that_o power_n which_o be_v intrinscicall_a essential_a and_o connaturall_a unto_o they_o as_o they_o be_v a_o church_n of_o christ_n only_o this_o want_n do_v hinder_v their_o ability_n to_o express_v their_o power_n well_o but_o their_o right_n as_o be_v a_o thing_n connaturall_a do_v still_o remain_v our_o brother_n have_v a_o say_n or_o two_o about_o the_o civil_a power_n which_o by_o proportion_n may_v well_o illustrate_v this_o that_o i_o be_o speak_v okubo_n it_o the_o church-power_n in_o one_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o there_o be_v a_o twofold_a power_n in_o a_o king_n one_o in_o a_o king_n as_o a_o king_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o and_o ordinary_a regal_a coactive_a whether_o the_o king_n be_v a_o heathen_a a_o turk_n or_o a_o sound_n believe_v christian_n there_o be_v another_o power_n in_o a_o king_n as_o such_o a_o king_n either_o as_o a_o prophetical_a king_n as_o david_n and_o solomon_n or_o as_o a_o christian_a believe_v king_n and_o of_o this_o latter_a he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o new_a regal_a power_n but_o potestas_fw-la execuliba_fw-la a_o power_n or_o gracious_a ability_n to_o execute_v the_o kingly_a power_n which_o he_o have_v before_o as_o a_o king_n page_n 387._o etc._n etc._n 388._o â—ow_o why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n there_o be_v in_o a_o church_n twofold_a power_n one_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o church_n and_o this_o be_v a_o like_a in_o all_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n whether_o the_o church_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a question_n have_v light_a to_o discern_v and_o hold_v the_o truth_n or_o otherwise_o another_o in_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v sound_a believe_a church_n hold_v the_o truth_n in_o such_o or_o such_o question_n and_o this_o be_v but_o only_o a_o gracious_a ability_n to_o exercise_v the_o power_n which_o they_o have_v before_o not_o add_v to_o they_o any_o new_a power_n at_o all_o again_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o he_o have_v these_o word_n though_o the_o king_n be_v not_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n yet_o have_v he_o a_o kingly_a power_n to_o command_v man_n as_o christian_n and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n that_o he_o can_v in_o that_o state_n command_v christian_n duty_n and_o service_n to_o christ_n because_o he_o will_v not_o and_o can_v command_v those_o duty_n remain_v ignorant_a of_o christ_n
reason_n which_o do_v show_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o be_v very_o unlike_a the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cruse_n and_o they_o have_v none_o be_v to_o show_v ourselves_o very_o irrational_a or_o worse_o end_v why_o our_o brother_n shall_v put_v such_o a_o thing_n upon_o we_o we_o be_v no_o way_n guilty_a thereof_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o we_o desire_v that_o our_o reason_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o our_o own_o conclusion_n to_o which_o we_o do_v and_o do_v apply_v it_o and_o not_o to_o this_o other_o express_v by_o our_o brother_n which_o indeed_o be_v none_o of_o we_o and_o then_o we_o be_v content_v that_o rational_a and_o judicious_a reader_n may_v judge_v whether_o or_o no_o there_o be_v any_o sufficient_a weight_n therein_o which_o that_o they_o may_v more_o ready_o do_v i_o have_v here_o recollect_v the_o same_o into_o this_o short_a sum_n that_o they_o may_v brief_o behold_v it_o with_o one_o view_n viz_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o congregationall_a way_n have_v the_o like_a and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o far_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v more_o convenient_a and_o near_o at_o hand_n than_o the_o congregationall_a way_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o again_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o stand_v judicatory_a always_o in_o readiness_n for_o the_o hear_n of_o cause_n and_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n have_v not_o and_o if_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a among_o the_o jew_n be_v very_o remote_a from_o many_o of_o they_o and_o synod_n among_o our_o brethren_n be_v the_o same_o than_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n be_v in_o some_o thing_n as_o defective_a as_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a in_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o the_o second_o be_v true_a also_o both_o the_o assumption_n in_o all_o the_o branch_n thereof_o i_o conceive_v be_v clear_o prove_v in_o the_o answer_n in_o the_o page_n which_o our_o brother_n do_v allege_v and_o whether_o the_o consequence_n be_v good_a let_v the_o wise_a judge_n have_v thus_o reduce_v our_o argumentation_n to_o its_o own_o proper_a and_o genuine_a shape_n let_v we_o now_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v thereto_o first_o say_v he_o the_o speediness_n of_o end_v controversy_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v bad_o comprise_v with_o the_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n of_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n without_o so_o much_o as_o ask_v advise_v of_o any_o class_n of_o elder_n and_o with_o decide_v question_n deep_a and_o grave_a which_o concern_v many_o church_n which_o be_v a_o put_n of_o a_o private_a sickle_n in_o a_o common_a and_o public_a harvest_n answ_n if_o advise_v from_o other_o church_n may_v be_v have_v we_o never_o speak_v word_n for_o do_v weighty_a matter_n without_o the_o same_o but_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v both_o our_o practice_n and_o advise_v to_o make_v use_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o this_o deliver_v man_n to_o satan_n in_o way_n of_o temerity_n or_o rashness_n touch_v not_o we_o who_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v other_o wise_a as_o for_o suddenness_n i_o conceive_v if_o the_o same_o be_v sometime_o accompany_v with_o temerity_n and_o rashness_n and_o so_o worthy_a to_o be_v blame_v yet_o not_o always_o for_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o house_n of_o god_n in_o the_o day_n of_o hezekiah_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o thing_n be_v do_v sudden_o 2_o chron._n 29._o 36._o where_o suddenness_n do_v not_o signify_v any_o sinful_a temerity_n or_o râ—shnesle_n but_o contrary_o do_v testify_v god_n great_a goodnesle_n that_o have_v so_o prepare_v the_o people_n to_o so_o good_a a_o work_n for_o this_o cause_n this_o suddenness_n be_v to_o hezekiah_n and_o god_n people_n a_o occasion_n and_o ground_n of_o great_a joy_n and_o gladness_n which_o temerity_n can_v not_o have_v be_v and_o therefore_o suddenness_n and_o temerity_n must_v not_o always_o be_v confound_v and_o couple_v together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v the_o same_o though_o hasty_a deliver_v of_o man_n to_o satan_n without_o due_a consideration_n be_v not_o good_a yet_o overlong_o delay_v of_o due_a proceed_n against_o delinquent_n be_v bad_a also_o for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o because_o sentence_v against_o a_o evil_a work_n be_v not_o execute_v speedy_o therefore_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n be_v full_o set_v to_o do_v evil_a eccl._n 8._o 11._o for_o which_o cause_n execute_v judgement_n in_o the_o morning_n that_o be_v to_o say_v speedy_o be_v sometime_o express_o require_v jer._n 21._o 12._o which_o be_v speak_v of_o justice_n to_o be_v execute_v by_o civil_a authority_n do_v hold_v by_o proportion_n and_o like_a reason_n in_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n for_o as_o much_o as_o speedinesle_n be_v a_o duty_n and_o delay_n be_v daangerous_a in_o the_o one_o case_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o whereas_o our_o author_n think_v much_o that_o excommunication_n shall_v proceed_v upon_o the_o decision_n of_o three_o elder_n as_o we_o know_v nothing_o but_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v more_o elder_n than_o the_o three_o if_o god_n provide_v they_o fit_a man_n and_o the_o numerousnesse_n of_o the_o congregation_n so_o require_v in_o which_o case_n our_o author_n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v so_o if_o they_o have_v but_o three_o we_o know_v nothing_o in_o this_o but_o they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v notwithstanding_o since_o himself_o teach_v due_a right_n page_n 61._o that_o the_o jew_n have_v their_o congregationall_a church_n as_o we_o have_v and_o have_v their_o meeting_n in_o their_o synagogue_n not_o only_o for_o doctrine_n but_o also_o for_o discipline_n and_o excommunication_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o it_o seem_v there_o may_v be_v excommunication_n by_o as_o small_a a_o number_n as_o three_o unless_o it_o can_v appear_v that_o in_o every_o synagogue_n the_o elder_n and_o ruler_n in_o it_o be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o be_v here_o mention_v which_o be_v more_o than_o i_o do_v remember_v to_o be_v express_v in_o scripture_n yea_o and_o further_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o inferior_a judicature_n in_o israel_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n page_n 315._o now_o the_o judge_n in_o these_o inferior_a judicature_n though_o they_o must_v never_o be_v under_o that_o number_n of_o three_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o always_o exceed_v the_o same_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v appear_v and_o if_o three_o judge_n have_v power_n of_o life_n and_o death_n why_o may_v not_o a_o congregation_n with_o three_o elder_n have_v power_n of_o excommunication_n moreover_o in_o his_o page_n 454._o he_o give_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o proposition_n that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n to_o which_o those_o word_n do_v also_o agree_v page_n 287._o viz._n the_o power_n and_o right_a to_o discipline_n be_v a_o propriety_n essential_a to_o a_o church_n and_o be_v not_o remove_v from_o it_o till_o god_n remove_v the_o candlestick_n and_o the_o church_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o in_o page_n 302._o he_o afford_v we_o these_o word_n for_o a_o assumption_n that_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o hence_o the_o conclusion_n be_v obvious_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o it_o own_o member_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n be_v a_o congregation_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o which_o be_v but_o three_o elder_n may_v exercise_v such_o jurisdiction_n this_o conclusion_n our_o author_n can_v deny_v in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o necessary_o and_o direct_o follow_v from_o premise_n which_o be_v both_o his_o own_o yea_o in_o his_o page_n 302._o hâ—_n say_v that_o this_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o church_n policy_n that_o every_o politic_a body_n of_o christ_n have_v power_n of_o church_n government_n
respect_n of_o its_o end_n now_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o necessity_n that_o be_v in_o discipline_n how_o be_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n for_o may_v not_o as_o much_o be_v say_v of_o they_o as_o here_o be_v say_v of_o discipline_n be_v not_o sacrament_n necessary_a to_o the_o well-being_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v command_v in_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n be_v and_o serve_v for_o excellent_a end_n as_o well_o as_o discipline_n do_v i_o suppose_v it_o will_v nâ—â—_n be_v deny_v and_o therefore_o the_o necessity_n of_o discipline_n above_o sacrament_n do_v not_o yet_o appear_v especial_o if_o that_o be_v consider_v withal_o which_o our_o brother_n teach_v elsewhere_o viz._n in_o his_o second_o p._n 211._o &_o sequ_fw-la where_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o sacrament_n be_v not_o only_o declarative_a sign_n but_o also_o real_a exhibitive_a seal_n of_o grace_n have_v a_o causality_n in_o they_o to_o make_v a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o and_o so_o excel_v all_o civil_a seal_n which_o do_v add_v no_o new_a land_n to_o the_o owner_n of_o the_o charter_n seal_v therewith_o now_o if_o sacrament_n be_v thus_o excellent_a and_o effectual_a how_o be_v it_o that_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n discipline_n be_v make_v more_o necessary_a than_o they_o for_o a_o great_a elegy_n than_o here_o he_o give_v to_o sacrament_n i_o suppose_v himself_o will_v not_o give_v unto_o discipline_n yea_o in_o p._n 302_o he_o express_o affirm_v that_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o of_o discipline_n i_o conceive_v he_o will_v not_o say_v the_o same_o sure_o it_o be_v in_o the_o page_n follow_v distinguish_v betwixt_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v necessary_a adâ—sse_n to_o the_o very_o be_v of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la bene_fw-la esse_fw-la to_o the_o well-being_n thereof_o he_o express_o make_v discipline_n a_o work_n or_o note_n of_o this_o second_o sort_n and_o as_o we_o hear_v erewhile_o he_o in_o page_n 287_o express_o affirm_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o now_o 〈◊〉_d make_v discipline_n more_o necessary_a than_o sacrament_n but_o he_o give_v we_o two_o reason_n of_o this_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n first_o that_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n in_o a_o congregation_n that_o want_v neighbour_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a second_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o discipline_n page_n 455._o concern_v the_o former_a his_o word_n be_v these_o viz._n that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v possible_o be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a wherein_o first_o of_o all_o i_o observe_v a_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o our_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n herle_n who_o have_v grant_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o consociation_n or_o neighbourhood_n of_o congregation_n there_o a_o single_a congregation_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n do_v present_o add_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o so_o fall_v not_o within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o church-government_n independency_n of_o church_n p._n 2._o plain_o confess_v that_o the_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a whereas_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o say_v it_o be_v not_o second_o as_o he_o express_o differ_v from_o mr._n herle_n so_o it_o be_v considerable_a whether_o his_o word_n do_v well_o agree_v with_o themselves_o for_o say_v he_o that_o the_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o that_o in_o such_o case_n they_o have_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a which_o say_v needs_o good_a explication_n for_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o conceive_v how_o the_o power_n and_o action_n of_o any_o subject_n or_o efficient_a shall_v be_v more_o usual_a and_o ordinary_a then_o it_o be_v very_o be_v and_o subsistence_n which_o yet_o must_v needs_o be_v if_o this_o stand_v good_a that_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o yet_o the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v be_v usual_a and_o ordinary_a three_o if_o their_o power_n of_o discipline_n yea_o entire_a power_n be_v in_o the_o case_n express_v orâ—â—â—ary_a shall_v we_o then_o say_v that_o if_o the_o case_n â—e_v otherwise_o so_o that_o a_o church_n be_v not_o alone_o but_o have_v neighbour_n entireness_n of_o power_n in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o seem_v aâ—_n must_v â—ay_n 〈◊〉_d or_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o both_o case_n be_v ordinary_a if_o this_o latter_a be_v say_v it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o we_o desire_v for_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o must_v not_o be_v a_o small_a 〈◊〉_d ordinary_a matter_n that_o must_v hinder_v a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n from_o exercise_v 〈…〉_z â—â—â—â—diction_n within_o themselves_o no_o more_o than_o a_o church_n that_o live_v alone_o 〈…〉_z power_n be_v ordinary_a in_o they_o both_o for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o they_o both_o in_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o i_o know_v not_o why_o any_o small_a or_o ordinary_a matter_n shall_v hinder_v the_o one_o church_n any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o from_o the_o use_n and_o exercise_v of_o such_o entire_a power_n if_o we_o say_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a though_o in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o it_o be_v ordinary_a beside_o that_o such_o a_o say_n sound_v harsh_o and_o seem_v very_o improbable_a we_o shall_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v case_n extraordinary_a to_o be_v very_o frequent_a &_o usual_a in_o as_o much_o as_o all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v very_o usual_a for_o congregationall_a church_n to_o have_v neighbour_n and_o so_o if_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v extraordinary_a it_o will_v follow_v that_o extraorninary_a power_n be_v very_o usual_a and_o frequent_a so_o that_o inconvenience_n on_o each_o side_n do_v seem_v inevitable_o to_o follow_v against_o our_o brother_n cause_n upon_o this_o which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a but_o let_v we_o here_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o subsequent_a word_n why_o this_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a for_o it_o flow_v say_v he_o continual_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n and_o i_o suppose_v he_o must_v mean_v this_o of_o jurisdiction_n entire_a and_o complete_a for_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o a_o few_o line_n afore_o he_o express_o call_v it_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o now_o if_o this_o be_v true_a which_o here_o be_v say_v as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v no_o other_o of_o it_o that_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o a_o church_n that_o have_v none_o must_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v to_o the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o other_o to_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n as_o well_o as_o to_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o our_o author_n tell_v we_o page_n 302._o that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o have_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n agree_v to_o it_o and_o want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n and_o if_o this_o be_v true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o be_v alone_o shall_v we_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a of_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v the_o accession_n of_o neighbour_n to_o a_o congregation_n take_v away_o from_o such_o a_o congregation_n the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n which_o it_o have_v before_o i_o conceive_v none_o will_v so_o say_v and_o if_o every_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n may_v exercise_v entire_a jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n as_o our_o brother_n
do_v acknowledge_v it_o follow_v unavoidable_o thereupon_o that_o all_o congregationall_a church_n such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n and_o such_o as_o have_v none_o may_v exercise_v such_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v unto_o they_o all_o unless_o he_o will_v deny_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n which_o he_o free_o yield_v to_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o he_o must_v grant_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n unto_o they_o both_o because_o he_o grant_v it_o to_o the_o one_o upon_o this_o reason_n that_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v thereunto_o which_o reason_n if_o it_o agree_v to_o both_o how_o can_v iâ—_n be_v avoid_v but_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n must_v be_v in_o both_o and_o how_o can_v it_o be_v affirm_v or_o imagine_v that_o a_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n afore_o and_o have_v neighbour_n shall_v lose_v 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midwife_n have_v no_o power_n to_o baptise_v either_o complete_a or_o incompleate_a answ_n suppose_v a_o congregation_n have_v a_o incompleate_a power_n when_o they_o have_v neighbour_n how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v alone_o their_o power_n be_v now_o complete_a or_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n one_o elder_a alone_o may_v excommunicate_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o other_o elder_n to_o join_v with_o he_o for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o one_o elder_n when_o their_o be_v a_o full_a presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la have_v a_o incompleate_a power_n though_o not_o a_o complete_a and_o yet_o i_o hope_v this_o incomplete_a power_n in_o one_o elder_n when_o there_o be_v other_o elder_n join_v with_o he_o will_v not_o warrant_v he_o to_o exercise_v a_o power_n complete_a when_o he_o be_v alone_o because_o such_o a_o power_n must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o church_n with_o one_o elder_a alone_n can_v be_v and_o if_o one_o elder_a have_v 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itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n answ_n this_o i_o grant_v be_v very_o true_a and_o i_o desire_v it_o may_v not_o be_v recall_v but_o may_v still_o stand_v as_o here_o it_o be_v express_o give_v to_o we_o and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o rule_n of_o christ_n be_v transgress_v if_o a_o other_o congregation_n i_o mean_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n do_v exercise_v the_o like_a power_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o such_o rule_n nor_o any_o good_a reason_n but_o if_o that_o the_o one_o congregation_n may_v so_o practice_v the_o other_o congregation_n may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o that_o the_o ground_n at_o least_o some_o of_o they_o which_o will_v warrant_v the_o one_o will_v also_o suffice_v to_o warrant_v the_o other_o nevertheless_o when_o any_o rule_n of_o christ_n shall_v be_v produce_v that_o do_v restrain_v a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n of_o this_o entire_a power_n which_o be_v so_o free_o and_o plain_o grant_v to_o the_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o i_o shall_v then_o grant_v that_o the_o former_a must_v have_v less_o liberty_n to_o exercise_v this_o power_n then_o be_v here_o grant_v to_o the_o latter_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n that_o which_o here_o be_v yield_v to_o the_o one_o do_v among_o other_o thing_n induce_v i_o to_o think_v that_o the_o same_o aught_o to_o be_v grant_v to_o the_o other_o and_o so_o that_o entireness_n of_o power_n be_v in_o they_o both_o a_o congregation_n viz._n which_o be_v alone_o be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n answ_n how_o will_v it_o then_o be_v avoid_v but_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n or_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o and_o now_o have_v neighbour_n add_v to_o it_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v i_o say_v but_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o this_o be_v also_o capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n for_o can_v it_o be_v deny_v but_o 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that_o à _fw-la quatenus_fw-la ad_fw-la omne_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o for_o the_o assumption_n the_o same_o be_v confirm_v by_o his_o word_n page_n 302_o where_o he_o make_v that_o to_o be_v a_o church_n and_o to_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v and_o these_o agree_n to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n it_o follow_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n be_v a_o church_n unless_o he_o will_v deny_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n power_n of_o preach_v the_o word_n and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n which_o i_o be_o persuade_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v at_o all_o it_o will_v unavoidable_o follow_v from_o his_o own_o ground_n that_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o if_o such_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o visible_a church_n then_o by_o his_o own_o ground_n also_o such_o a_o congregation_n must_v be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n which_o conclusion_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o we_o hold_v a_o woman_n in_o no_o case_n be_v capable_a of_o administer_a baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n except_o she_o be_v extraordinary_o and_o immediate_o inspire_v to_o be_v a_o prophetess_n but_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n by_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n i_o hope_v it_o have_v no_o such_o need_n of_o immediate_a inspiration_n answ_n nor_o do_v we_o think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o we_o may_v keep_v to_o the_o point_n and_o bring_v up_o the_o dispute_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o questio_fw-la if_o such_o a_o congregation_n have_v no_o such_o inspiration_n may_v notwithstanding_o lawful_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o themselves_o and_o that_o upon_o this_o reason_n because_o they_o now_o be_v alone_o which_o if_o they_o have_v neighbour_n be_v 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providence_n be_v alike_o in_o both_o i_o desire_v i_o may_v not_o be_v mistake_v in_o this_o passage_n for_o i_o do_v not_o affirm_v nor_o ever_o do_v that_o the_o dispensation_n of_o discipline_n and_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o case_n mention_v be_v both_o alike_o unlawful_a or_o else_o both_o alike_o lawful_a the_o answer_n will_v not_o witness_v that_o i_o have_v so_o affirm_v neither_o yet_o this_o present_a discourse_n tâ—_n much_o less_o do_v i_o hold_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o by_o man_n that_o be_v not_o minister_n all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v in_o this_o matter_n be_v thus_o much_o that_o it_o be_v good_a to_o take_v heed_n how_o far_o we_o yield_v it_o lawful_a in_o such_o extraordinary_a case_n as_o want_v of_o neighbour_n to_o transgress_v and_o violate_v ordinary_a rule_n lest_o some_o body_n do_v thence_o infer_v that_o sacrament_n may_v be_v dispense_v by_o woman_n or_o man_n that_o be_v no_o minister_n in_o case_n that_o minister_n or_o man_n be_v want_v this_o i_o have_v say_v indeed_o as_o be_v tender_a and_o afraid_a to_o open_v a_o door_n too_o far_o for_o liberty_n of_o transgress_v ordinary_a rule_n and_o conceive_v that_o keep_v close_o to_o those_o rule_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n if_o any_o man_n be_v more_o bold_a and_o dare_v open_a the_o door_n further_o than_o i_o dare_v adventure_n to_o do_v and_o think_v he_o can_v easy_o shut_v the_o same_o again_o to_o stop_v the_o inconvenience_n and_o ill_a consequent_n which_o i_o fear_v may_v thence_o ensue_v i_o shall_v leave_v he_o to_o his_o discretion_n and_o the_o guidance_n of_o god_n therein_o only_o crave_v thus_o much_o for_o myself_o that_o no_o more_o may_v be_v impute_v to_o i_o nor_o report_v of_o i_o in_o this_o or_o other_o matter_n than_o indeed_o i_o have_v affirm_v or_o express_v concern_v his_o second_o reason_n
first_o for_o the_o performance_n of_o these_o thing_n mention_v be_v as_o compleâ—t_v in_o he_o notwithstanding_o this_o addition_n as_o it_o be_v before_o and_o not_o any_o whit_n abate_v nor_o impair_v thereby_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o matter_n of_o order_n flow_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o pastor_n may_v be_v sufficient_o and_o complete_o perform_v by_o one_o pastor_n single_o which_o act_v of_o jurisdiction_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o own_o word_n in_o this_o case_n be_v these_o viz._n a_o single_a pastor_n may_v ministerial_o give_v out_o commandment_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o christ_n but_o he_o can_v himself_o censure_n or_o excommunicate_v the_o contravener_n of_o those_o commandment_n due_a right_n page_n 387._o and_o again_o page_n 387_o 388_o it_o be_v proper_a be_v act_n of_o jurisdiction_n ecclesiastical_a that_o they_o can_v be_v exercise_v by_o one_o alone_a but_o must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o society_n but_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collateral_o join_v with_o he_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n of_o preach_v and_o administer_a the_o sacrament_n now_o if_o a_o pastor_n as_o a_o pastor_n himself_o alone_o without_o any_o collatteral_o join_v with_o he_o may_v thus_o exercise_v his_o pastoral_n act_n than_o indeed_o the_o access_n or_o addition_n of_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o at_o all_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n but_o he_o still_o retain_v the_o same_o as_o complete_a and_o perfect_a as_o before_o because_o he_o do_v these_o act_n as_o a_o pastor_n and_o remain_v a_o pastor_n still_o but_o how_o this_o example_n and_o instance_n can_v any_o thing_n further_o mr._n ruthâ—rford_n his_o purpose_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o intention_n be_v to_o make_v good_a that_o a_o congregation_n may_v have_v entire_a power_n when_o it_o be_v alone_o aâ—d_v yet_o not_o so_o when_o other_o congregation_n do_v arise_v and_o for_o the_o consume_n of_o this_o he_o bring_v this_o instance_n and_o example_n from_o a_o pastor_n that_o have_v a_o pastoral_a power_n afore_o other_o pastor_n be_v add_v who_o by_o the_o addition_n of_o other_o have_v no_o less_o power_n than_o afore_o which_o example_n i_o conceive_v rather_o make_v against_o he_o then_o for_o he_o for_o say_v he_o page_z 456._o their_o pastoral_a power_n add_v to_o he_o be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a but_o not_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o therefore_o that_o the_o first_o pastor_n suffer_v loss_n by_o the_o addition_n of_o these_o three_o to_o he_o who_o say_v he_o will_v say_v this_o answ_n i_o know_v none_o that_o will_v say_v it_o but_o if_o their_o power_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o his_o pastoral_a power_n and_o no_o way_n privative_a or_o destructive_a thereof_o then_o what_o power_n he_o have_v afore_o they_o be_v add_v the_o same_o he_o have_v still_o in_o as_o great_a measure_n as_o former_o and_o so_o his_o pastoral_n act_n be_v as_o perfect_v and_o valid_a as_o they_o be_v before_o now_o let_v the_o same_o be_v grant_v to_o a_o congregation_n that_o have_v neighbour_n congregation_n add_v and_o we_o have_v what_o we_o demand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o grant_v then_o though_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o pastor_n be_v cumulative_a and_o auxiliary_a to_o the_o other_o pastor_n yet_o the_o power_n of_o those_o other_o congregation_n seem_v not_o so_o to_o the_o former_a congregation_n but_o rather_o privative_a or_o destructive_a of_o its_o power_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o example_n confirm_v our_o brother_n purpose_n or_o how_o can_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o example_n which_o he_o produce_v do_v make_v against_o himself_o sure_o if_o the_o power_n of_o these_o other_o pastor_n be_v not_o destructive_a to_o the_o former_a pastor_n power_n but_o auxiliary_a thereto_o so_o that_o what_o power_n he_o have_v before_o the_o same_o he_o retain_v still_o and_o in_o the_o same_o measure_n than_o it_o must_v be_v so_o likewise_o in_o a_o congregation_n when_o neighbour_n congregation_n be_v add_v or_o else_o this_o example_n will_v not_o suit_n but_o make_v the_o example_n to_o agree_v and_o our_o cause_n be_v advantage_v thereby_o our_o brethren_n do_v conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n in_o its_o kind_n and_o essence_n to_o be_v monarchical_a so_o as_o if_o any_o power_n from_o consociate_v congregation_n be_v add_v thereunto_o the_o congregation_n power_n monarchical_a be_v diminish_v and_o the_o essence_n of_o it_o change_v answ_n the_o power_n of_o congregation_n we_o â—old_a to_o be_v ministerial_a as_o be_v delegated_a from_o christ_n jesus_n and_o to_o be_v exercise_v according_a to_o his_o appointment_n and_o in_o he_o alone_o and_o in_o no_o other_o do_v we_o place_v this_o monarchical_a power_n according_a to_o what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n witness_v that_o there_o be_v difference_n of_o administration_n but_o the_o same_o lord_n 1_o cor._n 12._o 5._o and_o though_o our_o brother_n be_v please_v to_o put_v this_o upon_o we_o that_o we_o conceive_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchical_a yet_o in_o truth_n the_o same_o be_v far_o from_o we_o nor_o do_v i_o think_v that_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o we_o can_v be_v name_v that_o at_o any_o time_n have_v so_o speak_v nor_o do_v such_o a_o thing_n follow_v from_o any_o thing_n deliver_v by_o we_o concern_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n for_o as_o for_o that_o which_o here_o he_o intimate_v and_o elsewhere_o express_v more_o plain_o so_o that_o the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n be_v close_o make_v void_a or_o destroy_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o ascribe_v unto_o class_n if_o this_o be_v hold_v by_o we_o do_v it_o thence_o follow_v that_o we_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o congregation_n to_o be_v monarchicalâ—â—_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o then_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n i_o can_v prove_v that_o himself_o dâ—th_v hold_v a_o power_n monarchical_a in_o the_o universal_a or_o provincial_n church_n for_o he_o express_o affirm_v page_n 337._o that_o the_o pope_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n universal_a and_o the_o prelate_n power_n destroy_v the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n whereof_o he_o be_v pretend_v pastor_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o do_v not_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o the_o one_o church_n nor_o in_o the_o other_o nor_o in_o any_o church_n or_o church_n but_o in_o christ_n alone_o nor_o can_v the_o same_o be_v true_o conclude_v upon_o that_o which_o he_o affirm_v of_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o church_n by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o prelate_n and_o if_o not_o how_o then_o can_v any_o man_n conclude_v against_o we_o that_o we_o hold_v a_o monarchical_a power_n in_o congregation_n though_o we_o shall_v hold_v that_o the_o power_n of_o congregation_n be_v destroy_v or_o diminish_v by_o that_o power_n which_o some_o will_v give_v unto_o classesâ—_n if_o our_o prâ—mises_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o fasten_v such_o a_o tenent_n upon_o we_o his_o own_o will_v give_v a_o warrant_n for_o the_o like_a against_o himself_o and_o if_o the_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a to_o bear_v such_o a_o conclusion_n against_o he_o as_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v i_o know_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n why_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v impute_v unto_o we_o complete_a and_o enâ—ire_a power_n to_o rule_v both_o the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o consociate_v church_n in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o do_v keep_v communion_n with_o that_o congregation_n and_o may_v either_o edify_v or_o scandalize_v they_o flow_v not_o immeaiate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o every_o congregation_n even_o in_o remote_a land_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o that_o we_o never_o say_v answer_n indeed_o it_o be_v a_o absurd_a and_o gross_a say_n for_o any_o man_n to_o say_v that_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n not_o consociate_v with_o other_o shall_v have_v power_n yea_o complete_a and_o entire_a power_n to_o rule_v the_o congregation_n and_o member_n of_o church_n consociate_v and_o that_o this_o shall_v flow_v immediate_o and_o necessary_o from_o the_o essence_n of_o such_o a_o congregation_n but_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o our_o brother_n shall_v clear_v himself_o from_o this_o say_n for_o i_o know_v none_o that_o impute_v it_o to_o he_o nevertheless_o the_o say_n here_o â—â—joyned_v can_v be_v deny_v for_o they_o be_v his_o own_o verbâ—tiâ—â—_n first_o the_o ordinary_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o near_a vicinity_n and_o contiguity_n of_o member_n be_v give_v by_o jesus_n christ_n to_o one_o congregation_n in_o a_o isle_n because_o that_o church_n be_v a_o church_n proper_o so_o call_v it_o be_v a_o little_a city_n and_o a_o little_a kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n have_v within_o itself_o power_n of_o the_o â—ord_n and_o sacrament_n
and_o that_o be_v a_o church_n and_o have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essential_a note_n of_o a_o church_n now_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v essential_a note_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n page_n 302._o second_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o church_n want_v nothing_o of_o the_o be_v and_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n page_n 302._o three_o where_o consociation_n be_v not_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n may_v be_v do_v by_o one_o single_a congregation_n page_n 338._o four_o that_o in_o such_o case_n viz._n when_o a_o church_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o they_o have_v the_o word_n preach_v and_o entire_a power_n of_o discipline_n whole_a and_o entire_a within_o themselves_o to_o excommunicate_v scandalous_a person_n be_v not_o extraordinary_a page_n 454._o five_o it_o flow_v connatural_o from_o a_o church_n to_o which_o agree_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o exercise_v jurisdiction_n over_o all_o its_o own_o member_n ibid._n six_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o itself_o whereas_o there_o be_v no_o consociate_v church_n to_o share_v with_o it_o in_o that_o power_n ibid._n seven_o a_o congregation_n be_v capable_a of_o entire_a jurisdiction_n because_o it_o be_v a_o church_n ibid._n such_o say_n as_o these_o himself_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o page_n and_o place_n here_o cite_v and_o in_o the_o word_n and_o term_n here_o express_v and_o therefore_o from_o these_o he_o can_v clear_v himself_o and_o if_o from_o these_o the_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o a_o church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n may_v just_o be_v deduce_v as_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v and_o have_v above_o manifest_v it_o will_v then_o but_o little_o avail_v he_o to_o wash_v his_o hand_n from_o the_o stain_n of_o that_o other_o absurd_a say_n afore_o mention_v which_o no_o man_n that_o i_o know_v do_v charge_n he_o withal_o for_o as_o long_o as_o these_o other_o say_n do_v stand_v unrecal_v so_o long_o we_o have_v clear_a ground_n from_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o word_n for_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o every_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o for_o the_o weaken_n of_o his_o cause_n and_o for_o the_o strengthen_n of_o our_o own_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n add_v to_o a_o other_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o and_o according_a to_o the_o word_n be_v a_o auxiliary_a power_n and_o no_o way_n destructive_a to_o that_o power_n to_o which_o it_o be_v add_v indeed_o a_o power_n to_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n be_v destructive_a of_o that_o power_n and_o reason_n it_o shall_v be_v so_o because_o christ_n never_o give_v any_o such_o power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n answ_n here_o our_o brother_n speak_v of_o two_o case_n first_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o second_o of_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_a but_o beside_o these_o there_o be_v a_o three_o case_n which_o have_v need_v to_o be_v consider_v also_o viz._n a_o power_n of_o govern_v ill_o add_v to_o a_o power_n of_o govern_v well_o which_o may_v be_v the_o case_n when_o the_o power_n of_o classis_fw-la be_v add_v to_o a_o congregation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o impossible_a but_o the_o congregation_n may_v be_v in_o the_o right_n and_o the_o classis_fw-la in_o the_o wrong_n now_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v or_o do_v in_o this_o â—ase_n shall_v the_o congregation_n now_o have_v the_o free_a exercise_n of_o its_o power_n or_o shall_v it_o not_o to_o say_v yea_o will_v satisfy_v the_o mind_n of_o many_o if_o the_o congregation_n themselves_o may_v be_v judge_n that_o they_o be_v in_o the_o right_n or_o if_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v thereof_o and_o to_o say_v no_o and_o that_o the_o power_n must_v still_o be_v in_o this_o err_a classis_fw-la be_v to_o subject_a righteousness_n to_o wickedness_n and_o truth_n to_o falsehood_n and_o i_o conceive_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o maintain_v such_o power_n in_o a_o compound_n or_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la for_o in_o page_n 335._o speak_v of_o this_o very_a case_n and_o the_o great_a presbytery_n be_v wrong_a in_o their_o voice_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n be_v right_a and_o have_v the_o best_a in_o judge_v of_o a_o case_n before_o they_o he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o the_o power_n which_o in_o this_o case_n the_o presbytery_n exercise_v be_v not_o of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o jure_v the_o power_n of_o the_o great_a presbytery_n in_o this_o case_n ought_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o of_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o a_o congregation_n though_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n now_o if_o this_o be_v so_o than_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v still_o as_o uncertain_a as_o before_o and_o still_o we_o be_v to_o seek_v where_o the_o power_n of_o censure_n or_o jurisdiction_n do_v final_o reside_v for_o in_o the_o one_o place_n our_o brother_n tell_v we_o christ_n never_o give_v power_n of_o maladministration_n to_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o tell_v we_o the_o like_a of_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o great_a presbytery_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o any_o church_n to_o err_v by_o which_o say_n we_o be_v leave_v at_o great_a uncertainty_n for_o still_o the_o question_n will_v be_v whether_o the_o congregation_n do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o so_o whether_o the_o classis_fw-la do_v err_v or_o no_o and_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v who_o must_v judge_v of_o this_o we_o be_v still_o but_o where_o we_o be_v and_o no_o near_o a_o issue_n then_o before_o this_o indeed_o be_v most_o true_a and_o must_v be_v so_o acknowledge_v that_o though_o the_o lord_n almighty_n have_v give_v a_o power_n unto_o society_n whether_o they_o be_v family_n commonwealth_n or_o church_n and_o have_v make_v sundry_a of_o they_o subordinate_a to_o none_o other_o the_o like_a society_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o power_n but_o to_o have_v supremacy_n of_o power_n within_o themselves_o yet_o he_o have_v also_o give_v they_o just_a and_o holy_a rule_n in_o his_o word_n for_o the_o direct_n of_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o power_n from_o which_o rule_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o swerve_v or_o go_v astray_o but_o if_o they_o do_v it_o will_v be_v sin_n unto_o they_o and_o he_o will_v sure_o require_v it_o of_o they_o but_o now_o between_o these_o two_o the_o power_n itself_o and_o the_o abuse_n or_o right_a use_n of_o the_o power_n we_o must_v careful_o distinguish_v for_o though_o abuse_n of_o their_o power_n be_v not_o give_v of_o god_n from_o who_o come_v nothing_o but_o good_a yet_o the_o power_n itself_o be_v good_a be_v give_v of_o he_o and_o be_v so_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v and_o though_o abuse_v of_o their_o power_n do_v just_o deserve_v at_o his_o hand_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n itself_o yeâ—_n god_n do_v not_o always_o forthwith_o deal_v with_o man_n according_a to_o their_o desert_n herein_o but_o many_o time_n continue_v still_o to_o they_o their_o power_n though_o they_o have_v abuse_v the_o same_o much_o less_o do_v he_o allow_v other_o to_o deprive_v they_o of_o this_o power_n because_o of_o every_o abuse_n thereon_o witness_n among_o other_o the_o example_n of_o the_o pagan_a prince_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n who_o through_o their_o ignorance_n infidelity_n pride_n and_o other_o sin_n can_v not_o but_o in_o great_a measure_n abuse_v their_o authority_n and_o yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n command_v the_o christian_n to_o be_v subject_a and_o obedient_a thereunto_o rom._n 13._o 1_o 2._o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v 3._o 1._o not_o to_o obey_v they_o indeed_o in_o do_v evil_a at_o their_o command_n for_o in_o such_o case_n they_o must_v obey_v god_n rather_o than_o man_n as_o act_n 5._o 29._o yet_o still_o they_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o power_n either_o active_o or_o passive_o even_o then_o when_o the_o power_n be_v sinful_o abuse_v even_o so_o if_o a_o family_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o family_n may_v lawful_o for_o this_o cause_n take_v away_o their_o power_n from_o they_o or_o if_o a_o corporation_n shall_v so_o offend_v it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o other_o corporation_n may_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o power_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v the_o same_o of_o church_n or_o how_o will_v it_o follow_v if_o a_o church_n shall_v abuse_v their_o power_n
of_o nice_a the_o first_o general_a council_n of_o constantinople_n with_o other_o counsel_n and_o author_n witness_v the_o same_o pag._n 201_o 202._o and_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o grant_v that_o all_o matter_n in_o the_o church_n must_v be_v do_v with_o the_o people_n consent_n consentiente_fw-la plebe_fw-la allege_v a_o matter_n of_o 18._o or_o 19_o author_n for_o the_o same_o tenet_n peaceable_a plea_n p._n 49._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o allege_v and_o approve_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n calderwood_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n affirm_v that_o this_o liberty_n be_v purchase_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n due_a right_n second_o pag._n 464._o all_o which_o do_v plain_o show_v that_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o people_n have_v some_o 〈◊〉_d or_o privilege_n or_o right_a in_o church_n matter_n yea_o as_o himself_o say_v in_o this_o they_o have_v divinum_fw-la jus_o god_n right_a and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v plain_o forbid_v woman_n to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 34._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 12._o which_o very_o prohibition_n to_o woman_n do_v also_o secret_o imply_v that_o man_n may_v have_v liberty_n to_o practice_v though_o woman_n may_v not_o now_o then_o if_o the_o people_n have_v liberty_n privilege_n right_o to_o consent_v and_o act_n in_o church_n matter_n yea_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o woman_n may_v not_o speak_v therein_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o here_o m._n rutherford_n write_v that_o if_o the_o people_n have_v any_o liberty_n this_o liberty_n must_v also_o be_v due_a to_o woman_n if_o the_o apostle_n word_n and_o our_o brother_n own_o doctrine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v do_v stand_v his_o say_n in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n can_v stand_v they_o be_v so_o contrary_a one_o to_o another_o three_o say_v he_o what_o privilege_n the_o people_n have_v in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n which_o they_o neither_o have_v formal_o nor_o virtual_o i_o know_v not_o answ_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o then_o hear_v your_o own_o word_n pag._n 7._o i_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la this_o power_n be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a etc._n etc._n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o virtual_a power_n as_o well_o as_o the_o formal_a be_v deny_v which_o thing_n be_v not_o free_a from_o interfer_v or_o strong_a appearance_n thereof_o our_o word_n be_v not_o just_a the_o same_o which_o m._n rutherford_n set_v down_o a_o privilege_n in_o ordination_n to_o confer_v a_o ministry_n but_o these_o be_v our_o word_n a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n etc._n etc._n and_o who_o know_v not_o but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o liberty_n exercise_v about_o ordination_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n by_o way_n of_o consent_n thereto_o or_o desire_v thereof_o etc._n etc._n without_o any_o authoritative_a act_n therein_o and_o if_o this_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n be_v such_o a_o fault_n then_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v justify_v who_o do_v give_v to_o the_o people_n a_o great_a matter_n than_o this_o liberty_n do_v amount_v unto_o even_o a_o power_n to_o do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o which_o to_o do_v i_o conceive_v be_v more_o than_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n and_o when_o the_o reader_n shall_v have_v consider_v these_o ensue_a word_n of_o m_o rutherford_n then_o let_v he_o be_v judge_n whether_o m._n rutherford_n do_v not_o give_v this_o power_n unto_o the_o people_n in_o some_o case_n as_o a_o rose_n say_v he_o cause_v to_o grow_v in_o winter_n by_o art_n be_v of_o that_o same_o nature_n with_o a_o rise_v produce_v in_o summer_n by_o nature_n though_o the_o manner_n of_o production_n be_v different_a so_o be_v they_o both_o true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n p._n 186._o and_o in_o the_o page_n follow_v he_o give_v two_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n 1._o because_o god_n be_v not_o necessary_o tie_v to_o succession_n of_o pastor_n 2._o because_o where_o man_n be_v gift_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n to_o be_v have_v the_o give_v of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o call_n of_o god_n who_o be_v not_o want_v to_o his_o own_o gracious_a intention_n though_o ordinary_a mean_n fail_v now_o if_o the_o people_n without_o pastor_n may_v do_v that_o which_o shall_v stand_v for_o ordination_n and_o if_o their_o election_n do_v make_v a_o minister_n in_o some_o case_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o then_o only_o to_o exercise_v some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v do_v this_o latter_a and_o possible_o no_o minister_n be_v make_v thereby_o whereas_o in_o the_o other_o case_n a_o man_n be_v make_v a_o true_a pastor_n and_o minister_n as_o well_o as_o by_o ordination_n itself_o marvel_v it_o be_v therefore_o that_o the_o great_a be_v allow_v as_o lawful_a and_o not_o the_o lesser_a that_o some_o liberty_n about_o ordination_n may_v not_o be_v allow_v and_o yet_o that_o can_v be_v allow_v which_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n itself_o and_o which_o make_v a_o ministerâ—_n as_o true_o as_o ordination_n do_v chap._n xviii_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n report_n of_o synodical_a proposition_n in_o new-england_n next_o after_o this_o our_o reverend_a author_n fall_v to_o scan_v as_o he_o say_v pag._n 476._o some_o synodical_a proposition_n of_o the_o church_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o call_v they_o together_o with_o a_o table_n of_o church_n power_n which_o he_o call_v the_o table_n of_o new_a england_n but_o with_o favour_n of_o soworthy_a a_o man_n he_o do_v great_o mistake_v the_o matter_n for_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o synod_n nor_o synodical_a proposition_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o nor_o any_o such_o table_n of_o new_a england_n as_o he_o mention_v there_o be_v indeed_o at_o cambridge_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o a_o print_a conference_n of_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o country_n where_o sundry_a point_n of_o church_n judgement_n be_v private_o discourse_v of_o and_o this_o be_v all_o but_o as_o the_o meeting_n be_v not_o any_o synod_n as_o synod_n be_v usual_o understand_v so_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o agree_v upon_o nor_o any_o table_n of_o proposition_n agree_v upon_o to_o be_v give_v forth_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o new_a england_n this_o i_o be_o able_a to_o testify_v have_v be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n from_o the_o begin_n thereof_o unto_o the_o end_n and_o sundry_a other_o of_o the_o elder_n of_o these_o church_n can_v testify_v the_o same_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o know_v full_a well_o the_o truth_n of_o what_o i_o hear_v relate_v i_o will_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o reply_v to_o what_o he_o have_v write_v upon_o so_o manifest_a misinformation_n and_o mistake_v what_o information_n he_o go_v upon_o i_o know_v not_o per_fw-mi adventure_v some_o note_n may_v have_v come_v to_o his_o view_n which_o one_o or_o other_o may_v gather_v at_o that_o conference_n for_o his_o own_o private_a use_n peradventure_o some_o in_o their_o simplicity_n mean_v no_o hurt_n many_o have_v call_v that_o private_a conference_n by_o the_o name_n and_o term_v of_o a_o synoâ—_n and_o m._n rutherford_n may_v thereupon_o adventure_v to_o publish_v in_o print_n as_o here_o we_o see_v but_o however_o they_o mistake_v a_o rose_n sure_o i_o be_o synodical_a proposition_n there_o be_v none_o 〈◊〉_d any_o synod_n at_o all_o not_o new_a england_n table_n and_o therefore_o i_o think_v himself_o and_o other_o may_v do_v well_o and_o wise_o hereafter_o to_o be_v inform_v by_o good_a and_o sufficient_a intelligence_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o they_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n concerâ—ing_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n or_o else_o not_o to_o believe_v the_o same_o much_o less_o to_o divulge_v the_o same_o in_o print_n for_o what_o comfort_n can_v it_o be_v to_o any_o christian_n to_o receive_v and_o publish_v to_o the_o world_n against_o a_o man_n neighbour_n special_o against_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n such_o report_v as_o for_o the_o matter_n contain_v in_o they_o do_v not_o agree_v with_o truth_n chap._n xix_o of_o the_o appeal_v of_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n and_o of_o the_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o general_a counsel_n deny_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n whether_o therein_o he_o do_v not_o contradict_v himself_o and_o also_o overthrow_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n assembly_n in_o
his_o page_n 482._o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o pag._n 16_o 17._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v that_o though_o some_o have_v appeal_v as_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n from_o the_o pope_n to_o a_o general_a council_n yet_o not_o from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n answ_n as_o he_o one_o of_o these_o page_n have_v nothing_o at_o all_o concern_v this_o matter_n and_o therefore_o may_v well_o have_v be_v spare_v so_o neither_o of_o they_o both_o do_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o luther_n either_o of_o one_o purpose_n or_o other_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v some_o marvel_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v mention_v as_o thus_o speak_v of_o by_o we_o who_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o he_o at_o all_o so_o much_o as_o one_o word_n for_o any_o purpose_n whatsoever_o nor_o do_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o word_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n agree_v with_o we_o as_o we_o have_v set_v they_o down_o in_o the_o 16._o page_n allege_v and_o therefore_o that_o our_o mind_n and_o meaning_n may_v appear_v let_v i_o relate_v our_o own_o word_n which_o be_v these_o how_o this_o example_n sc_n of_o cramners_n appeal_n to_o council_n relate_v by_o mr._n fox_n do_v suit_n the_o present_a question_n we_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o his_o appeal_n be_v not_o from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n but_o from_o the_o pope_n nor_o be_v it_o from_o a_o synod_n but_o to_o the_o next_o general_a council_n which_o from_o that_o day_n to_o this_o have_v not_o yet_o be_v assemble_v nor_o call_v if_o we_o must_v hold_v a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_n to_o such_o a_o judicatory_a as_o cranmer_n appeal_v unto_o than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n provincial_a and_o national_a be_v utter_o take_v away_o these_o be_v our_o word_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n now_o what_o do_v he_o answer_v thereto_o in_o matter_n doctrinal_a say_v he_o some_o as_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n though_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o answ_n say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o cranmer_n do_v it_o not_o yet_o for_o luther_n how_o can_v it_o be_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o instance_n both_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o not_o and_o of_o such_o as_o do_v it_o for_o luther_n and_o other_o have_v just_o do_v it_o and_o yet_o luther_n and_o cranmer_n be_v two_o of_o they_o that_o do_v it_o not_o these_o be_v saying_n which_o seem_v not_o to_o agree_v again_o if_o luther_n do_v so_o appeal_v why_o be_v no_o proof_n allege_v for_o confirmation_n of_o what_o here_o be_v affirm_v which_o if_o there_o have_v be_v we_o may_v have_v consider_v thereof_o but_o since_o there_o be_v not_o we_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o forbear_v assent_n till_o that_o which_o be_v here_o naked_o affirm_v be_v further_o strengthen_v by_o some_o proof_n or_o other_o to_o make_v it_o good_a last_o if_o luther_n or_o other_o have_v just_o appeal_v from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o general_a council_n then_o why_o will_v it_o not_o be_v lawful_a for_o other_o upon_o like_a occasion_n to_o do_v the_o like_a and_o if_o so_o then_o as_o we_o argue_v in_o the_o answer_n the_o supremacy_n of_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n be_v utter_o take_v away_o and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n cause_n and_o controversy_n may_v still_o be_v depend_v and_o never_o come_v to_o be_v determine_v so_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o good_a of_o his_o people_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n though_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o answ_n for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o altogether_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n but_o here_o i_o have_v a_o quere_z or_o two_o to_o propose_v to_o our_o reverend_a brother_n serious_a consideration_n first_o of_o all_o how_o this_o passage_n do_v agree_v with_o that_o which_o himself_o have_v write_v pag._n 387._o where_o he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v make_v good_a that_o a_o power_n dogmatic_a be_v not_o different_a in_o nature_n from_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o that_o we_o read_v not_o of_o any_o society_n which_o have_v power_n to_o meet_v to_o make_v law_n and_o decree_n which_o have_v not_o power_n also_o to_o back_v their_o decree_n with_o punishment_n yea_o he_o say_v further_a that_o if_o the_o jewish_a synodry_n may_v meet_v to_o declare_v judicial_o what_o be_v god_n law_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n and_o what_o not_o far_o more_o may_v they_o punish_v contravener_n of_o the_o law_n for_o anomothetick_a power_n in_o a_o society_n which_o be_v the_o great_a power_n and_o be_v in_o the_o fountain_n must_v presuppose_v in_o the_o society_n 〈◊〉_d lesser_a power_n which_o be_v to_o punish_v anomothetick_a power_n ministerial_a can_v want_v a_o power_n of_o censure_v so_o that_o whereto_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v there_o may_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n some_o 〈◊〉_d doctrinal_a power_n without_o any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n in_o this_o other_o place_n he_o say_v these_o power_n do_v not_o differ_v in_o nature_n nor_o can_v the_o former_a be_v without_o the_o latter_a but_o do_v always_o presuppose_v the_o same_o as_o that_o which_o be_v lesser_a and_o which_o it_o can_v want_v now_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v i_o be_o not_o able_a to_o understand_v next_o of_o all_o how_o do_v this_o passage_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n agree_v with_o that_o which_o be_v write_v p._n 308_o 309._o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o inate_a and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v the_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o she_o and_o what_o that_o power_n be_v he_o express_v in_o two_o or_o three_o line_n proceed_v viz._n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o excommunicate_v and_o relax_v from_o excommunication_n even_o national_a church_n if_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v please_v to_o give_v the_o christian_a church_n a_o general_a council_n this_o day_n may_v lawful_o in_o a_o jurisdictiall_a way_n declare_v the_o faction_n of_o the_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n to_o be_v mystical_a babylon_n which_o in_o excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o the_o act_n and_o again_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o in_o page_n 304._o he_o tell_v in_o that_o a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o he_o call_v it_o extraordinary_a and_o remote_a and_o which_o be_v but_o rare_o to_o be_v put_v forth_o in_o act_n be_v give_v to_o the_o catholic_n visible_a presbytery_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_n visible_a church_n in_o all_o which_o place_n he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n which_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v three_o if_o there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n in_o a_o general_a council_n then_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v such_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o classical_a provincial_n and_o national_n presbytery_n which_o be_v far_o less_o yea_o and_o that_o there_o be_v in_o these_o presbytery_n a_o power_n independent_a and_o supreme_a without_o appeal_n to_o any_o other_o for_o such_o power_n there_o must_v be_v in_o some_o of_o they_o if_o there_o be_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o they_o at_o all_o since_o we_o be_v tell_v there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o general_a council_n to_o appeal_v unto_o now_o how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o any_o such_o independent_a supreme_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v give_v to_o any_o of_o those_o presbytery_n where_o be_v the_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o speak_v of_o such_o power_n for_o our_o part_n we_o know_v of_o none_o but_o do_v still_o think_v that_o this_o power_n be_v place_v by_o christ_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o be_v the_o rather_o strengthen_v in_o this_o apprehension_n for_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v give_v against_o the_o congregation_n power_n and_o wherein_o our_o brethren_n be_v wont_a to_o place_v their_o great_a strength_n sc_n that_o appeal_n be_v juris_fw-la naturalis_fw-la and_o that_o defect_n in_o the_o part_n be_v to_o be_v supply_v
arise_v offence_n between_o congregation_n there_o must_v be_v a_o church_n of_o synod_n above_o congregation_n and_o those_o synod_n must_v judge_v and_o redress_v those_o offence_n to_o this_o we_o there_o answer_v that_o all_o offence_n do_v not_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n and_o so_o no_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o synod_n can_v be_v sufficient_o prove_v by_o this_o text_n first_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o national_a church_n of_o which_o we_o suppose_v our_o brother_n will_v not_o say_v that_o they_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o our_o saviour_n rule_n tell_v the_o church_n for_o then_o the_o independency_n of_o national_a church_n and_o national_a synod_n be_v overthrow_v as_o well_o as_o the_o congregation_n which_o we_o suppose_v he_o will_v not_o grant_v and_o yet_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v if_o his_o reason_n for_o the_o dependency_n of_o congregation_n upon_o synod_n do_v stand_v firm_a and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o instance_n in_o the_o offence_n of_o turk_n and_o indian_n and_o other_o heathen_n who_o may_v offend_v christian_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o to_o be_v complain_v of_o to_o the_o church_n the_o apostle_n express_o teach_v the_o contrary_a 1_o col._n 5._o this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n except_v against_o let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o it_o be_v which_o he_o say_v thereto_o because_o say_v he_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_a church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v art_n ordinary_a communion_n as_o be_v clear_a if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v &c_n &c_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a church_n answ_n 1._o if_o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a than_o the_o rule_n do_v not_o universal_o hold_v true_a that_o the_o remedy_n complaint_n to_o the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n offence_n and_o so_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o our_o purpose_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v this_o very_a thing_n by_o this_o same_o instance_n of_o the_o offence_n of_o a_o national_a church_n wherein_o mr._n rutherford_n we_o see_v do_v come_v over_o to_o we_o and_o affirm_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v to_o what_o end_n therefore_o be_v it_o to_o make_v show_n of_o remove_v or_o weaken_v what_o he_o have_v say_v since_o when_o it_o come_v to_o the_o issue_n he_o plain_o concur_v with_o we_o for_o by_o this_o mean_v our_o tenant_n be_v not_o confute_v but_o confirm_v with_o his_o attest_v thereto_o 2._o though_o here_o he_o say_v this_o remedy_n be_v not_o needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a yet_o i_o be_o mistake_v if_o elsewhere_o he_o speak_v not_o otherwise_o for_o in_o pag._n 311._o prepound_v this_o objection_n viz._n christ_n here_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a removal_n of_o scandal_n a_o catholic_a council_n of_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v far_o of_o and_o can_v be_v have_v he_o return_v this_o for_o answer_v thereto_o that_o christ_n say_v he_o speak_v of_o a_o present_a and_o constant_a remedy_n only_o and_o of_o no_o remedy_n against_o the_o scandal_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v deny_v he_o speak_v of_o all_o remedye_n to_o gain_v any_o offender_n person_n or_o church_n and_o in_o pag._n 322._o he_o say_v christ_n give_v a_o instance_n only_o in_o a_o offend_a brother_n but_o the_o doctrine_n be_v for_o the_o cure_n of_o a_o offend_a church_n also_o and_o for_o all_o person_n to_o be_v gain_v thou_o have_v gain_v thy_o brother_n and_o say_v he_o we_o be_v to_o gain_v church_n as_o we_o be_v not_o to_o offend_v church_n 1_o cor._n 10._o 32._o again_o in_o his_o second_n pag._n 332._o speak_v of_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n of_o which_o he_o call_v the_o five_o the_o general_a and_o oecuminick_n council_n he_o say_v that_o all_o these_o differ_v not_o in_o essence_n but_o in_o degree_n and_o what_o word_n of_o god_n as_o matth_n 18._o 16_o 17._o prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o be_v for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o all_o the_o five_o sort_n of_o synod_n last_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o those_o word_n pag._n 39_o this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_a council_n the_o same_o be_v also_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o peaceable_a plea_n p._n 86._o in_o all_o which_o saying_n he_o plain_o understand_v the_o text_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n to_o speak_v of_o a_o remedy_n for_o all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v gain_v yea_o a_o remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o all_o person_n and_o church_n that_o may_v give_v offence_n which_o church_n he_o say_v may_v do_v and_o express_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v apply_v to_o general_a counsel_n and_o that_o necessary_o and_o how_o these_o thing_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o place_n in_o hind_n where_o he_o say_v he_o deny_v the_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a let_v the_o wise_a and_o himself_o judge_v for_o for_o my_o part_n except_o there_o be_v some_o difference_n between_o necessary_a and_o needful_a the_o say_n to_o i_o do_v seem_v inconsistent_a one_o affirm_v the_o place_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o general_a counsel_n and_o the_o other_o deny_v that_o the_o remedy_n there_o mention_v be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_a 2._o christ_n remedy_n say_v he_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o the_o brethren_n and_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o indian_n be_v nomember_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o so_o be_v without_o they_o can_v be_v judge_v 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o answ_n that_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n be_v very_o true_a but_o nothing_o against_o we_o for_o the_o very_a same_o that_o here_o be_v say_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v say_v by_o we_o before_o in_o the_o place_n which_o himself_o do_v allege_v where_o we_o also_o bring_v the_o very_a same_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o himself_o do_v bring_v now_o why_o shall_v these_o thing_n be_v bring_v as_o a_o confutation_n of_o we_o which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o reception_n of_o that_o which_o we_o have_v deliver_v afore_o as_o our_o own_o judgement_n may_v not_o his_o reader_n be_v induce_v hereby_o to_o think_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v otherwise_o but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v if_o indian_n can_v be_v judge_v by_o the_o church_n than_o still_o our_o purpose_n be_v gain_v for_o by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v where_o christ_n remedy_n tell_v the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o and_o so_o that_o universal_a proposition_n christ_n remedy_n be_v as_o large_a as_o the_o malady_n and_o where_o a_o offence_n may_v be_v commit_v there_o to_o tell_v the_o church_n be_v the_o remedy_n for_o the_o redress_n of_o the_o same_o which_o our_o brethren_n do_v lay_v as_o the_o foundation_n on_o which_o to_o build_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n the_o universality_n i_o say_v of_o this_o proposition_n be_v utter_o overthrow_v by_o this_o instance_n of_o indian_n and_o so_o that_o scripture_n matth._n 18._o appear_v to_o be_v too_o weak_a a_o bottom_n to_o bear_v the_o building_n which_o our_o brethren_n will_v erect_v upon_o it_o nor_o be_v the_o matter_n much_o amend_v by_o that_o which_o our_o brother_n here_o bring_v for_o the_o help_a and_o clear_v of_o it_o that_o christ_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o brethren_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o let_v this_o be_v grant_v as_o i_o know_v none_o that_o deny_v it_o yet_o still_o the_o question_n remain_v what_o be_v that_o church_n to_o which_o our_o saviour_n here_o give_v power_n to_o remove_v and_o redress_v scandal_n by_o excommunicate_v the_o offender_n we_o conceive_v this_o church_n be_v only_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o its_o presbytery_n and_o our_o brethren_n think_v it_o be_v also_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n but_o this_o apprehension_n of_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o say_v our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n for_o offence_n among_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o the_o member_n of_o a_o national_a church_n as_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n and_o yet_o our_o brother_n hold_v here_o be_v nor_o remedy_n prescribe_v for_o a_o delinquent_n national_a church_n and_o if_o he_o can_v so_o
understand_v this_o church_n remedy_n as_o that_o for_o all_o this_o the_o national_a church_n must_v not_o partake_v thereof_o so_o as_o to_o be_v censure_v and_o excommunicate_v by_o any_o church_n above_o it_o why_o may_v not_o other_o understand_v it_o so_o as_o that_o synod_n and_o class_n yea_o and_o congregation_n too_o be_v exempt_v from_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o church_n for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o if_o the_o congregation_n be_v liable_a to_o the_o censure_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o this_o scripture_n because_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n be_v a_o church_n remedy_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o class_n and_o synod_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v also_o yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n likewise_o because_o this_o reason_n be_v applyable_a to_o all_o these_o as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o congregation_n so_o that_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o church_n remedy_n do_v not_o help_v his_o cause_n at_o all_o nor_o hurt_v we_o any_o more_o than_o it_o hurt_v himself_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o congregationall_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n than_o this_o reason_n be_v as_o good_a it_o be_v a_o church_n remedy_n therefore_o the_o class_n synod_n yea_o and_o the_o national_a church_n must_v be_v liable_a to_o censure_v for_o their_o offence_n but_o this_o latter_a at_o least_o for_o the_o national_a church_n our_o brother_n speak_v against_o and_o therefore_o he_o may_v not_o press_v nor_o urge_v the_o former_a if_o he_o or_o other_o shall_v say_v that_o this_o scripture_n contain_v a_o remedy_n even_o for_o a_o national_a church_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o national_a church_n be_v not_o independent_a but_o depend_v upon_o the_o ecumenical_a but_o this_o our_o brother_n can_v say_v unless_o he_o will_v gainsay_v himself_o because_o he_o have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a and_o serious_o protest_v it_o wâ—â—h_v a_o very_o that_o very_o be_v can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n only_o a_o mere_a doctrinal_a power_n in_o all_o the_o power_n that_o he_o can_v see_v in_o such_o a_o council_n pag._n 482._o so_o that_o let_v he_o hold_v to_o what_o he_o have_v thus_o serious_o protest_v and_o this_o rule_n of_o christ_n afford_v no_o remedy_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n for_o the_o scandal_n of_o a_o national_a church_n beside_o if_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o a_o general_a council_n be_v establish_v by_o our_o saviour_n in_o this_o or_o other_o scripture_n than_o it_o will_v not_o only_o follow_v that_o the_o independent_a jurisdiction_n of_o national_a church_n yea_o and_o much_o more_o of_o class_n and_o synod_n be_v overthrow_v which_o i_o suppose_v our_o brethren_n will_v not_o grant_v but_o moreover_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o christ_n have_v not_o sufficient_o provide_v church_n remedy_n for_o redress_v scandalis_n of_o church_n member_n the_o reason_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v because_o all_o other_o jurisdiction_n be_v subordinate_a one_o to_o anâ—ther_n and_o all_o of_o they_o under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o general_a council_n which_o alone_o be_v supreme_a there_o may_v therefore_o in_o all_o of_o they_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o inferior_a to_o the_o high_a judicatory_n till_o at_o the_o last_o â—atters_n and_o cause_n be_v transmit_v from_o they_o all_o to_o the_o general_a council_n and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_n matter_n shall_v or_o may_v never_o be_v end_v nor_o scandal_n remedy_v till_o a_o general_a council_n shall_v effect_v the_o same_o which_o general_a counsel_n all_o know_v be_v rare_a and_o difficult_a to_o be_v attainâ—_n 〈◊〉_d and_o therefore_o there_o be_v small_a sufficiency_n in_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n if_o matter_n may_v or_o must_v depend_v till_o general_a counsel_n shall_v be_v assemble_v for_o the_o hear_n and_o determine_v thereof_o and_o may_v not_o be_v end_v sconer_n therefore_o we_o can_v see_v that_o this_o rule_n nor_o any_o other_o establish_v the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_a couâ—cels_n and_o then_o national_a church_n can_v have_v no_o benefit_n of_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n which_o be_v congregationall_a and_o so_o whether_o be_v the_o say_n universal_o true_a that_o where_o there_o may_v be_v offence_n commit_v there_o our_o saviour_n remedy_n of_o tell_v the_o church_n may_v be_v apply_v for_o the_o redress_n thereof_o nor_o do_v this_o say_n hold_v be_v narrow_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n mind_n who_o will_v have_v it_o understand_v only_o of_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n member_n for_o we_o see_v there_o may_v be_v offence_n in_o church_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n judgement_n which_o can_v be_v redress_v by_o the_o help_n and_o remedy_n of_o this_o rule_n chap._n xxii_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a cure_v to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_a covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n pag_n 483._o we_o say_v that_o if_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n may_v not_o the_o church_n without_o he_o conveen_v and_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n mr._n mather_n and_o mr._n tompsons_n answer_n p._n 29._o that_n if_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o most_o or_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n regis_fw-la ad_fw-la exemplum_fw-la totus_fw-la and_o then_o the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o land_n with_o not_o be_v able_a to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n thereof_o not_o can_v it_o be_v well_o contain_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n for_o that_o or_o any_o other_o purpose_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n nor_o do_v god_n require_v it_o at_o their_o hand_n answ_n the_o question_n between_o mr._n hefle_n and_o we_o as_o it_o be_v speak_v to_o by_o we_o in_o this_o passage_n be_v still_o about_o the_o meaning_n of_o our_o saviour_n word_n tell_v the_o church_n which_o will_v plain_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n and_o our_o answer_n and_o compare_v they_o together_o and_o though_o we_o speak_v something_o of_o the_o church_n renew_v a_o a_o covenant_n with_o god_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n yet_o the_o question_n lie_v not_o mere_o so_o and_o no_o further_o but_o first_o this_o church_n be_v call_v the_o land_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n therein_o or_o the_o whole_a number_n of_o believer_n second_o the_o thing_n inquire_v into_o concern_v this_o church_n be_v whether_o they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a renewall_n of_o the_o covenant_n in_o answer_v whereto_o we_o first_o of_o all_o say_v that_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n the_o believer_n in_o the_o land_n be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v so_o many_o as_o that_o they_o shall_v bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n but_o of_o a_o small_a part_n therein_o second_o that_o in_o such_o case_n it_o be_v not_o like_a they_o can_v have_v such_o liberty_n as_o safe_o to_o meet_v in_o such_o great_a assembly_n as_o national_a synod_n and_o hereupon_o we_o conclude_v that_o renew_n of_o covenant_n and_o enjoin_v the_o same_o in_o national_a synod_n be_v not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o some_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v not_o then_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v the_o scope_n and_o sum_n of_o that_o passage_n in_o the_o answer_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v what_o mr._n rutherford_n say_v thereto_o this_o say_v he_o be_v a_o weak_a answer_n answ_n sit_v magistrabiter_n will_v it_o not_o do_v well_o first_o to_o disprove_v and_o confute_v and_o then_o to_o censure_v rather_o than_o to_o censure_v first_o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a it_o will_v be_v more_o easy_a to_o overthrow_v it_o let_v we_o hear_v therefore_o why_o it_o be_v so_o weak_a the_o christian_n under_o nero_n be_v not_o like_o their_o prince_n and_o it_o be_v not_o like_a but_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v sincere_a christian_n and_o profess_v truth_n even_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o this_o do_v this_o strong_o overthrow_v that_o say_n which_o be_v censure_v
for_o so_o weak_a if_o sincere_a christian_n be_v sincere_a christian_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n suppose_v as_o bad_a as_o nero_n do_v it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o in_o such_o time_n the_o sincere_a christian_n will_v be_v so_o many_o in_o number_n as_o to_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o the_o land_n or_o nation_n where_o they_o be_v for_o there_o lie_v the_o question_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v otherwise_o i_o suppose_v no_o man_n can_v just_o affirm_v it_o for_o be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o queen_n mary_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o scotland_n in_o the_o day_n of_o popish_a prince_n afore_o the_o reformation_n be_v they_o so_o many_o in_o spain_n in_o italy_n in_o turkey_n at_o this_o day_n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o when_o rehoboam_n forsake_v the_o lord_n all_o israel_n do_v the_o same_o with_o he_o 2_o chron._n 12._o 1._o and_o that_o jeroboam_fw-la do_v not_o only_a sin_n but_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n and_o that_o when_o a_o ruler_n hearken_v to_o lie_n all_o his_o servant_n be_v wicked_a prov._n 29._o vers_fw-la 12._o which_o saying_n and_o many_o more_o that_o may_v be_v allege_v beside_o common_a experience_n do_v abundant_o witness_v that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n often_o time_n if_o not_o always_o sincere_a believer_n in_o those_o day_n be_v the_o small_a part_n of_o that_o land_n if_o m._n rutherford_n can_v prove_v this_o apprehension_n weak_a he_o must_v then_o prove_v the_o contradictory_n to_o be_v true_a viz._n that_o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n to_o religion_n it_o be_v not_o like_a that_o many_o of_o the_o people_n will_v be_v of_o the_o magistrate_n mind_n but_o contrary_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o land_n will_v be_v sincere_a believer_n though_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n and_o when_o he_o have_v confirm_v this_o position_n which_o strong_a and_o convince_a proof_n he_o may_v then_o more_o free_o take_v his_o liberty_n to_o condemn_v the_o other_o for_o weak_a in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o think_v it_o be_v weakness_n in_o we_o to_o depart_v from_o this_o apprehension_n without_o some_o better_a ground_n than_o yet_o be_v give_v to_o discover_v the_o weakness_n of_o it_o 2._o say_v he_o if_o your_o meaning_n be_v it_o can_v be_v conceive_v how_o they_o shall_v assemble_v in_o a_o national_a assembly_n when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o enemy_n because_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o fear_v of_o persecution_n than_o you_o say_v nothing_o to_o the_o argument_n because_o the_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o a_o duty_n answ_n be_v those_o thing_n duty_n which_o be_v in_o nature_n impossible_a if_o not_o how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n for_o when_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n i_o do_v still_o conceive_v the_o believer_n in_o that_o land_n to_o be_v but_o few_o a_o small_a part_n of_o the_o land_n how_o be_v it_o a_o duty_n i_o say_v for_o these_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n to_o be_v enter_v into_o not_o only_o by_o themselves_o which_o be_v but_o a_o few_o in_o comparison_n but_o also_o by_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o land_n which_o be_v far_o the_o great_a number_n if_o this_o be_v a_o duty_n it_o be_v more_o than_o i_o yet_o understand_v suppose_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o enter_v into_o covenant_n with_o god_n for_o their_o own_o part_n suppose_v also_o it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a yet_o when_o the_o great_a part_n will_v not_o so_o do_v but_o be_v enemy_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n like_o their_o magistrate_n be_v it_o nevertheless_o a_o duty_n of_o this_o small_a number_n to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o to_o enjoin_v a_o solemn_a covenant_n to_o be_v take_v by_o the_o land_n i_o mean_v not_o only_o by_o themselves_o but_o also_o by_o other_o who_o be_v far_o more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o do_v they_o fall_v short_a of_o their_o duty_n if_o they_o do_v not_o thus_o assemble_v and_o impose_v the_o covenant_n in_o the_o day_n of_o jeroboam_fw-la when_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o land_n walk_v after_o his_o wicked_a commandment_n hos_fw-la 5._o 11._o who_o make_v israel_n to_o sin_n yet_o then_o there_o be_v some_o in_o israel_n who_o retain_v their_o integrity_n and_o set_v their_o heart_n to_o seek_v the_o lord_n who_o also_o for_o that_o end_n come_v to_o jerusalem_n to_o sacrifice_v to_o the_o lord_n god_n of_o their_o father_n 2_o chron._n 11._o v_o 16._o but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o these_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a in_o worship_n do_v ever_o come_v together_o in_o a_o national_a assembly_n in_o israel_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o to_o that_o great_a multitude_n of_o the_o backslide_a israelite_n nor_o that_o such_o a_o duty_n be_v require_v of_o they_o nor_o that_o they_o be_v blame_v by_o 〈◊〉_d lord_n nor_o any_o of_o his_o prophet_n for_o the_o neglect_n thereof_o and_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o stand_n be_v the_o same_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o because_o the_o prince_n power_n be_v against_o the_o synodical_a meeting_n this_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o power_n of_o the_o synod_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o his_o church_n answ_n we_o mean_v as_o we_o have_v say_v that_o those_o few_o believer_n in_o a_o land_n be_v overpower_v with_o the_o prince_n and_o people_n that_o be_v enemy_n therefore_o this_o assemble_v of_o those_o few_o in_o a_o national_a synod_n and_o there_o enjoin_v a_o national_a covenant_n be_v now_o not_o in_o their_o power_n and_o so_o not_o require_v at_o their_o hand_n if_o your_o meaning_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o they_o to_o conveen_n in_o a_o national_a synod_n to_o renew_v a_o covenant_n with_o god_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_v i_o hope_v you_o mind_n no_o such_o thing_n answ_n if_o it_o be_v our_o meaning_n how_o can_v it_o be_v hope_v that_o we_o do_v not_o mind_v it_o can_v our_o â—â—â—â—ing_n be_v one_o thing_n and_o our_o mind_n another_o but_o for_o his_o satisfaction_n and_o resolution_n 〈◊〉_d plain_a answer_n be_v this_o that_o we_o neither_o have_v mind_n nor_o meaning_n to_o meddle_v at_o all_o with_o that_o question_n whether_o church_n may_v assemble_v in_o national_a synod_n against_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n will_n for_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o mr._n herles_a treatise_n do_v lead_v we_o thereunto_o 〈…〉_z such_o a_o matter_n nor_o be_o i_o willing_a at_o this_o time_n to_o turn_v aside_o to_o the_o same_o but_o to_o keep_v close_o to_o my_o scope_n and_o aim_n which_o be_v to_o consider_v of_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o exception_n against_o the_o answer_n and_o therefore_o for_o his_o discourse_n which_o here_o he_o fall_v upon_o maintain_v at_o large_a against_o malignant_n and_o namely_o against_o tho_n fuller_n that_o the_o reformation_n begin_v in_o scotland_n and_o prosecute_v in_o england_n against_o the_o king_n will_v be_v lawful_a and_o warrantable_a by_o the_o wordâ—_n this_o discourse_n i_o say_v be_v altogether_o concern_v other_o and_o not_o we_o i_o will_v therefore_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o come_v to_o that_o wherein_o ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n xxiii_o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church_n meet_v only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n pag_n 489._o the_o name_n church_n 1_o cor._n 14._o 4_o 5_o 35._o 27_o 28._o be_v plain_o give_v to_o that_o company_n that_o do_v assemble_v and_o come_v together_o for_o performance_n of_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o for_o the_o exercise_n of_o spiritual_a gift_n as_o act._n 14._o 27._o and_o 11._o 26._o and_o 15._o 4._o 22._o 30._o and_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 18_o 20_o 22_o 23_o 3_o john_n 6._o which_o place_n do_v abundant_o show_v that_o a_o company_n gather_v together_o in_o one_o place_n be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o church_n as_o centhera_n rom._n 16._o 1._o which_o can_v not_o contain_v many_o congregation_n be_v but_o the_o part_n of_o corinth_n and_o for_o this_o passage_n he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 32._o answ_n mr._n herle_n have_v say_v that_o the_o scripture_n never_o use_v the_o word_n church_n for_o a_o single_a congregation_n unless_o happy_o 1_o cor._n 14._o and_o that_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o province_n or_o city_n be_v
there_o to_o sit_v so_o we_o place_v not_o the_o supremacy_n among_o the_o jew_n in_o jerusalem_n consider_v apart_o from_o the_o synedrion_fw-mi but_o in_o the_o synedrion_n itself_o which_o be_v there_o seat_v but_o because_o our_o reverend_a brother_n in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o this_o 16_o the_o objection_n bring_v in_o this_o particular_a of_o jerusalem_n supremacy_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n with_o other_o say_v therefore_o i_o conceive_v he_o intend_v not_o we_o therein_o but_o some_o body_n else_o and_o therefore_o i_o will_v proceed_v to_o the_o next_o wherein_n ourselves_o be_v concern_v chap._n vii_o whether_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v do_v prove_v a_o superiority_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o synod_n over_o congregation_n and_o of_o sundry_a say_n of_o our_o author_n which_o seem_v to_o interfere_v in_o his_o page_n 422._o he_o propound_v a_o 19_o the_o objection_n to_o this_o effect_n if_o the_o government_n of_o consociate_v church_n be_v warrant_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n than_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v common_a to_o we_o in_o civil_a as_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o every_o city_n govern_v with_o ruler_n within_o itself_o must_v be_v subordinate_a to_o a_o class_n of_o many_o city_n and_o that_o class_n to_o a_o national_n meet_v of_o all_o the_o city_n and_o the_o national_n government_n to_o be_v a_o catholic_a or_o oecumenicke_n civil_a court_n and_o because_o by_o the_o same_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o controversy_n lest_o appeal_v shall_v be_v spin_v out_o in_o infinitum_fw-la it_o must_v be_v prove_v that_o this_o supremacy_n lie_v not_o in_o a_o congregation_n and_o in_o the_o margin_n he_o cit_v mr._n tompson_n and_o myself_o in_o page_n 16_o and_o page_z 10_o of_o the_o answer_n as_o author_n of_o this_o last_o bassis_fw-la in_o the_o oâ—ectjection_n answ_n it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n allege_v we_o speak_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n as_o here_o be_v report_v for_o we_o there_o suppose_v it_o to_o be_v clear_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o final_a and_o supreme_a judgement_n of_o cause_n and_o that_o unless_o it_o be_v determine_v where_o that_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v which_o we_o account_v the_o very_a thing_n in_o question_n we_o say_v the_o usefulness_n and_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o we_o shall_v be_v still_o at_o uncertainty_n about_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o as_o much_o to_o seek_v as_o before_o because_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v appeal_n till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v one_o thing_n and_o that_o a_o synod_n and_o not_o a_o congregation_n be_v the_o high_a be_v another_o to_o this_o purpose_n we_o have_v write_v in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n the_o sum_n whereof_o be_v this_o much_o that_o though_o the_o usefulness_n of_o appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a be_v grant_v yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n in_o matter_n of_o judicature_n be_v not_o conclude_v thereby_o now_o what_o do_v our_o reverend_a brother_n return_v in_o his_o answer_n do_v he_o prove_v the_o contrary_a to_o what_o be_v here_o affirm_v by_o we_o do_v he_o clear_v it_o sufficient_o that_o if_o it_o be_v once_o grant_v that_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_v till_o you_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n must_v inevitable_o follow_v i_o conceive_v the_o necessity_n of_o this_o consequence_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v if_o that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v sufficient_o answer_v but_o do_v our_o brother_n clear_v this_o or_o do_v he_o so_o much_o as_o once_o attempt_v the_o clear_n thereof_o sure_o to_o speak_v free_o what_o i_o find_v i_o find_v nothing_o that_o look_v that_o way_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o wonder_v why_o our_o opinion_n shall_v be_v allege_v in_o this_o objection_n and_o so_o his_o reader_n be_v lead_v into_o expectation_n of_o some_o sufficient_a answer_n thereto_o and_o then_o the_o answer_n which_o he_o return_v to_o be_v take_v up_o in_o other_o matter_n our_o opinion_n propose_v in_o the_o objection_n be_v whole_o in_o his_o answer_n leave_v untouched_a if_o that_o say_n of_o we_o be_v not_o sound_a why_o do_v he_o not_o return_v some_o answer_n if_o it_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a why_o do_v he_o make_v a_o objection_n of_o it_o and_o so_o breed_v a_o apprehension_n in_o weak_a reader_n of_o its_o unsoundnesse_n and_o put_v they_o in_o hope_n of_o a_o confutation_n when_o no_o such_o thing_n be_v perform_v i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n to_o consider_v what_o this_o do_v argue_v nevertheless_o let_v we_o consider_v of_o what_o he_o do_v return_v for_o answer_n page_n 423._o first_o he_o say_v appeal_v be_v warrant_v by_o the_o counsel_n which_o jethro_n give_v to_o moses_n can_v but_o be_v natural_a answ_n 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at_o all_o that_o do_v make_v for_o the_o removal_n of_o our_o opinion_n as_o himself_o have_v see_v it_o down_o in_o his_o objection_n we_o may_v true_o say_v we_o see_v it_o not_o no_o nor_o in_o that_o which_o do_v follow_v viz._n but_o in_o the_o church_n it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o god_n have_v appoint_v no_o vissible_a monarchy_n in_o his_o church_n nor_o no_o such_o independency_n of_o policy_n within_o a_o congregation_n classical_a provincial_n or_o national_n church_n answ_n for_o that_o which_o be_v say_v of_o a_o visible_a monarchy_n in_o the_o church_n i_o confess_v it_o be_v true_a god_n have_v appoint_v none_o such_o but_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o word_n since_o they_o contain_v a_o express_a denial_n of_o the_o supremacy_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicature_n except_o it_o be_v the_o general_a council_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v how_o our_o tenent_n afore_o express_v be_v disprove_v or_o how_o the_o necessity_n of_o that_o consequence_n afore_o mention_v be_v at_o all_o clear_v hereby_o if_o there_o be_v no_o independency_n of_o policy_n in_o congregation_n nor_o yet_o in_o any_o synod_n except_o it_o be_v the_o ecumenical_a do_v this_o prove_v that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v lie_v in_o synod_n and_o not_o in_o the_o congregation_n nothing_o less_o for_o how_o can_v our_o brother_n prove_v that_o it_o lie_v in_o the_o one_o and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o by_o say_v as_o here_o he_o do_v that_o indeed_o it_o lie_v in_o neither_o or_o how_o be_v that_o consequence_n make_v good_a that_o if_o there_o must_v be_v appeal_n till_o we_o come_v to_o the_o high_a than_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a how_o be_v this_o i_o say_v make_v good_a by_o affirm_v that_o neither_o the_o congregation_n nor_o the_o synod_n be_v the_o high_a for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v it_o pass_v my_o understanding_n to_o conceive_v how_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n shall_v be_v the_o prove_v and_o clear_n thereof_o and_o yet_o except_o this_o be_v admit_v i_o know_v not_o how_o our_o apprehension_n in_o the_o matter_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v at_o all_o disprove_v for_o whereas_o we_o say_v appeal_v may_v be_v grant_v and_o yet_o the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n over_o congregation_n will_v not_o follow_v mr._n rutherford_n for_o the_o disprove_v of_o what_o we_o apprehend_v herein_o do_v bring_v nothing_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n but_o only_o this_o that_o the_o supremacy_n do_v neither_o lie_n in_o the_o congregation_n nor_o in_o the_o synod_n which_o be_v no_o disprove_v of_o we_o all_o except_o as_o i_o say_v that_o the_o deny_v of_o a_o thing_n may_v suffice_v for_o the_o confirm_v and_o clear_n thereof_o for_o i_o conceive_v if_o we_o be_v disprove_v the_o supremacy_n of_o synod_n must_v be_v prove_v
even_o as_o a_o king_n ignorant_a of_o necessary_a civil_a duty_n can_v command_v they_o not_o because_o he_o want_v kingly_a power_n to_o command_v these_o civil_a thing_n for_o undeniable_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n in_o civil_a thing_n but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o knowledge_n of_o they_o and_o may_v we_o not_o say_v in_o like_a sort_n though_o a_o church_n want_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o some_o particular_a question_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o church_n power_n to_o determine_v such_o question_n &_o to_o command_v obedience_n therein_o and_o it_o be_v by_o accident_n they_o can_v in_o that_o state_n determine_v right_o because_o they_o will_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n therein_o not_o because_o they_o want_v church-power_n to_o determine_v such_o matter_n but_o because_o they_o have_v not_o the_o knowledge_n of_o they_o again_o a_o little_a after_o in_o the_o same_o p._n he_o tell_v we_o that_o christianity_n add_v no_o new_a fatherly_a power_n to_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a husband_n right_a to_o the_o husband_n once_o a_o heathen_a over_o his_o wife_n for_o a_o heathen_a father_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o father_n over_o his_o child_n as_o a_o christian_a father_n and_o a_o heathen_a husband_n a_o heathen_a master_n etc._n etc._n be_v all_o as_o essential_o husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v the_o christian_a husband_n master_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v we_o not_o as_o well_o say_v soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o particular_a question_n add_v no_o new_a church_n power_n to_o a_o christian_a church_n over_o their_o own_o member_n nor_o give_v a_o new_a church_n right_a over_o they_o which_o they_o have_v not_o before_o for_o a_o church_n that_o want_v such_o knowledge_n be_v as_o essential_o a_o church_n invest_v with_o church_n power_n over_o her_o member_n as_o be_v another_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o perceive_v the_o case_n be_v alike_o and_o if_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n do_v not_o give_v to_o a_o church_n their_o church-right_a in_o this_o or_o that_o question_n how_o can_v want_v of_o that_o knowledge_n deprive_v they_o of_o that_o right_a sure_o one_o will_v think_v the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n may_v do_v as_o much_o for_o the_o add_v of_o kingly_a right_n fatherly_a right_n husband_n right_a etc._n etc._n as_o soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o some_o one_o particular_a question_n for_o the_o add_v of_o church_n right_a &_o that_o the_o want_n of_o all_o christianity_n shall_v be_v as_o available_a for_o take_v away_o the_o kingly_a right_n the_o fatherly_a right_n etc._n etc._n as_o the_o want_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a point_n for_o the_o take_z away_o of_o church-right_a and_o since_o we_o have_v our_o brother_n own_o testimony_n clear_a and_o full_a for_o the_o one_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o the_o case_n be_v so_o parallel_a and_o proportionable_a that_o the_o other_o be_v unavoidable_a i_o mean_v thus_o since_o in_o the_o one_o case_n the_o whole_a substance_n of_o christianity_n do_v not_o give_v power_n nor_o the_o want_n thereof_o take_v away_o the_o same_o by_o our_o brother_n own_o teach_n i_o know_v not_o how_o in_o the_o other_o case_n soundness_n of_o knowledge_n in_o one_o particular_a question_n shall_v give_v power_n or_o right_n &_o want_v of_o such_o knowledge_n take_v away_o the_o same_o and_o so_o for_o antioch_n in_o particular_a if_o it_o be_v as_o our_o brother_n suppose_v that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o do_v hold_v against_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n i_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v deprive_v they_o of_o their_o church_n right_a which_o they_o have_v before_o as_o for_o our_o brother_n reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o ecclesiastical_a right_n and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o only_o for_o the_o truth_n this_o say_n i_o confess_v be_v very_o true_a but_o do_v not_o suffice_v for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o he_o bring_v it_o viz._n to_o prove_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o question_n about_o circumcision_n or_o hold_v against_o the_o truth_n therein_o do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o church_n right_a to_o determine_v for_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a than_o a_o man_n may_v conclude_v against_o that_o power_n in_o heathen_a king_n parent_n and_o husband_n to_o govern_v their_o subject_n child_n and_o wife_n which_o our_o brother_n as_o we_o hear_v afore_o have_v grant_v and_o teach_v for_o suppose_v that_o antioch_n be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o that_o particular_a be_v it_o not_o clear_a that_o the_o king_n parent_n and_o husband_n mention_v be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o truth_n in_o many_o more_o matter_n and_o it_o antioch_n do_v hereupon_o loose_v their_o right_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n â—he_v king_n and_o the_o other_o mention_a must_v likewise_o lose_v their_o right_n to_o govern_v their_o own_o subject_n and_o family_n for_o the_o lord_n give_v no_o right_a i_o hope_v to_o pagan_n against_o the_o truth_n no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v unto_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o reason_n be_v valid_a and_o strong_a in_o the_o one_o case_n and_o for_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o our_o brother_n bring_v it_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v as_o strong_a in_o the_o other_o case_n also_o which_o shall_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o our_o brother_n himself_o do_v teach_v in_o a_o word_n churches_n and_o antioch_n in_o particular_a have_v right_a to_o determine_v question_n and_o they_o ought_v to_o determine_v only_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n they_o have_v formal_o a_o right_a to_o determine_v and_o when_o their_o determination_n be_v according_a to_o truth_n than_o they_o will_v â—ind_v vi_o matâ—â—iâ—_n which_o else_o they_o will_v not_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v in_o fore_n humano_fw-la and_o if_o their_o determination_n be_v for_o matter_n agreeable_a to_o truth_n they_o will_v be_v ratify_v in_o foro_fw-la diuâ—â—o_fw-la but_o not_o else_o now_o our_o brother_n argue_v do_v seem_v to_o confound_v these_o two_o and_o because_o of_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v free_o grant_v he_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o former_a which_o we_o think_v be_v not_o good_a reason_n but_o on_o the_o contrary_n do_v still_o think_v that_o though_o church_n ought_v to_o give_v out_o no_o determination_n but_o such_o as_o be_v agreeable_a to_o truth_n and_o that_o otherwise_o their_o determination_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o will_v not_o bind_v before_o god_n yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o may_v have_v right_a formal_o and_o in_o foro_n humano_fw-la to_o judge_n and_o to_o determine_v of_o such_o thing_n moreover_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v for_o true_a that_o antioch_n when_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o right_n to_o determine_v controversy_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o hereby_o much_o near_o to_o a_o issue_n unless_o it_o be_v determine_v withal_o who_o must_v be_v judge_n whether_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o no_o and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o if_o they_o be_v not_o against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o than_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v be_v grant_v that_o they_o do_v not_o lose_v their_o right_n at_o all_o the_o question_n therefore_o still_o remain_v who_o have_v this_o ministerial_a power_n to_o judge_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o church_n antioch_n or_o any_o other_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n or_o for_o it_o and_o unless_o this_o be_v clear_v we_o be_v but_o where_o we_o be_v before_o but_o to_o draw_v towards_o a_o end_n of_o this_o passage_n about_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n whether_o they_o have_v right_a to_o determine_v controversy_n when_o ability_n fail_v or_o whether_o they_o do_v when_o lose_v that_o right_n i_o will_v here_o transcribe_v a_o few_o word_n of_o our_o brother_n as_o i_o find_v they_o in_o his_o second_o 331._o page_n wherein_o he_o either_o clear_o yield_v the_o cause_n and_o say_v the_o same_o that_o we_o do_v or_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v the_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o ability_n to_o judge_v and_o right_a or_o power_n to_o judge_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o he_o dispute_v in_o six_o page_n together_o to_o prove_v antioch_n such_o a_o one_o page_n 470._o 471._o etc._n etc._n sequ_o may_v have_v right_a jus_o and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n to_o judge_v of_o a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o want_v ability_n therefore_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la it_o belong_v to_o a_o high_a synod_n where_o more_o learned_a man_n be_v though_o the_o jure_v the_o presbytery_n may_v judge_v it_o these_o word_n i_o wish_v to_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o
whereas_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v be_v speak_v of_o he_o say_v antioch_n the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n do_v lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_n to_o determine_v for_o which_o as_o we_o have_v hear_v he_o give_v this_o reason_n because_o christ_n have_v give_v no_o right_a and_o power_n to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o it_o yet_o now_o we_o see_v he_o grant_v distinction_n between_o ability_n and_o right_n and_o say_v a_o presbyterial_a church_n may_v still_o retain_v this_o latter_a of_o their_o right_n even_o then_o when_o they_o want_v the_o other_o of_o ability_n which_o two_o saying_n whether_o they_o do_v perfect_o agree_v and_o whether_o in_o the_o latter_a of_o they_o he_o do_v not_o plain_o come_v up_o to_o we_o against_o who_o he_o have_v be_v dispute_v in_o the_o former_a i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o wise_a in_o heart_n and_o especial_o to_o himself_o to_o consider_v for_o for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v confess_v that_o these_o two_o say_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n as_o antioch_n may_v have_v right_a jus_o to_o judge_v a_o point_n to_o the_o judge_v whereof_o they_o may_v want_v ability_n and_o antioch_n a_o presbyterial_a church_n want_v ability_n do_v thereby_o lose_v their_o right_n or_o jus_o to_o determine_v the_o point_n these_o two_o i_o say_v be_v such_o say_n as_o be_v not_o easy_a for_o i_o to_o reconcile_v last_o if_o it_o be_v say_v our_o brother_n do_v not_o deny_v unto_o antioch_n or_o a_o church_n in_o error_n all_o power_n simple_o to_o determine_v but_o only_o to_o determine_v tali_fw-la mode_n that_o be_v to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n for_o his_o word_n be_v they_o lose_v their_o jus_o their_o right_a eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o i_o answer_v he_o have_v such_o a_o word_n indeed_o as_o eatenus_fw-la in_o so_o far_o but_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v he_o mean_v no_o more_o in_o this_o dispute_n but_o only_o that_o such_o a_o church_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n i_o conceive_v that_o he_o that_o shall_v so_o say_v shall_v therein_o impute_v some_o fault_n unto_o our_o brother_n even_o the_o fault_n of_o wrest_a mr._n tompsons_n tenent_n and_o i_o and_o suggest_v against_o we_o unto_o his_o reader_n as_o if_o we_o have_v hold_v such_o a_o thing_n as_o we_o never_o write_v nor_o think_v for_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o pag._n 424._o be_v dispute_v against_o we_o for_o he_o say_v that_o we_o teach_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n have_v jus_o power_n to_o judge_n and_o determine_v the_o controversy_n but_o because_o of_o the_o difficulty_n have_v not_o light_a to_o judge_v thereof_o and_o set_v down_o master_n tompsons_n name_n and_o i_o as_o the_o man_n that_o so_o teach_v in_o answer_n page_n 42._o and_o a_o few_o line_n after_o he_o say_v i_o think_v the_o brethren_n err_v in_o this_o to_o teach_v that_o antioch_n have_v power_n to_o determine_v the_o controversy_n act._n 15._o and_o then_o he_o give_v two_o reason_n for_o the_o contrary_n so_o that_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o now_o what_o have_v we_o say_v in_o this_o matter_n have_v we_o deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n let_v the_o answer_n be_v view_v in_o the_o place_n which_o he_o allege_v viz._n page_n 42._o and_o i_o be_o sure_a no_o such_o gross_a tenent_n will_v be_v there_o find_v no_o nor_o any_o where_o else_o in_o our_o writing_n that_o which_o we_o have_v say_v be_v this_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o have_v determine_v the_o matter_n if_o ability_n have_v serve_v thereto_o but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n we_o never_o speak_v one_o word_n that_o sound_v that_o way_n our_o brother_n therefore_o intend_v this_o dispute_n against_o we_o and_o plain_o express_v so_o much_o and_o our_o tenent_n be_v no_o other_o than_o as_o i_o have_v say_v it_o must_v therefore_o needs_o follow_v that_o his_o intendment_n be_v that_o antioch_n have_v no_o right_a to_o determine_v that_o matter_n but_o for_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n he_o can_v confute_v such_o a_o tenent_n as_o we_o we_o never_o have_v deliver_v any_o such_o thing_n but_o he_o must_v withal_o be_v culpable_a of_o manifest_a mistake_n and_o misreporting_a of_o we_o to_o the_o world_n and_o we_o be_v and_o must_v be_v slow_a to_o believe_v that_o a_o man_n of_o such_o worth_n will_v willing_o do_v we_o such_o wrong_n it_o remain_v therefore_o that_o right_o to_o determine_v and_o not_o right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o opposite_a as_o we_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v that_o in_o this_o sense_n and_o meaning_n i_o have_v here_o apply_v my_o answer_n the_o 〈…〉_z thus_o much_o that_o antioch_n have_v right_a to_o determine_v against_o the_o 〈…〉_z that_o may_v soon_o be_v confute_v but_o the_o tenent_n be_v none_o of_o we_o that_o 〈…〉_z to_o determine_v be_v indeed_o our_o tenent_n and_o whether_o this_o be_v confute_v 〈…〉_z let_v the_o wise_a and_o judicious_a consider_v chap._n ix_o whether_o the_o congregationall_a way_n or_o the_o presbyterial_a do_v make_v the_o gospel_n more_o difficultive_a than_o the_o law_n of_o excommunication_n by_o a_o church_n that_o have_v only_o three_o elder_n and_o of_o do_v thing_n sudden_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o his_o page_n 424_o meaning_n mr_n tâ—mpson_n and_o i_o and_o allege_v page_n 17_o 18._o of_o the_o answer_n he_o write_v that_o we_o say_v our_o opposite_n do_v much_o judaize_v in_o that_o they_o multiply_v appeal_n upon_o appeal_n from_o a_o congregation_n to_o a_o classis_fw-la then_o to_o a_o synod_n then_o to_o a_o national_n assembly_n then_o to_o a_o oecâ—â—â—â—nicke_a council_n and_o this_o way_n while_o the_o world_n endure_v cause_n be_v never_o determine_v and_o synod_n can_v always_o be_v have_v even_o as_o in_o jerusalem_n the_o supreme_a judicature_n be_v far_o remote_a from_o all_o proselyte_n as_o from_o the_o eunuch_n of_o ethiopia_n act._n 8._o and_o from_o the_o remote_o part_n of_o the_o holy_a land_n but_o god_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o we_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o every_o congregation_n which_o be_v at_o hand_n may_v decide_v the_o controversy_n and_o then_o page_z 425._o he_o subjoin_v his_o answer_n answ_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o of_o the_o thing_n here_o allege_v be_v write_v by_o we_o in_o the_o paâ—â—â—_n name_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v write_v for_o the_o purpose_n which_o our_o brother_n express_v viz._n to_o show_v that_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o opposite_a judgement_n do_v much_o judaize_v that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v for_o the_o place_n be_v view_v will_v plain_o witness_v that_o we_o bring_v the_o thing_n allege_v for_o another_o end_n viz._n to_o show_v whether_o the_o way_n that_o be_v call_v independency_n do_v make_v the_o people_n as_o some_o have_v think_v of_o it_o more_o defective_a and_o improvident_a than_o their_o law_n for_o this_o be_v object_v against_o that_o way_n we_o in_o answer_n thereto_o do_v show_v by_o sundry_a particular_n that_o it_o be_v not_o that_o way_n that_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n but_o the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o other_o judgement_n one_o way_n on_o the_o one_o side_n make_v the_o state_n of_o christian_n in_o these_o day_n in_o some_o thing_n equal_a to_o the_o jew_n and_o in_o other_o thing_n more_o excellent_a and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n the_o way_n of_o our_o brethren_n make_v our_o condition_n in_o many_o thing_n more_o defective_a than_o be_v the_o condition_n of_o the_o jew_n so_o that_o not_o judayze_a but_o make_v our_o condition_n more_o defective_a than_o the_o jew_n be_v the_o thing_n which_o we_o here_o note_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o brethren_n nor_o do_v i_o see_v how_o our_o brother_n in_o his_o answer_n do_v free_a their_o doctrine_n and_o way_n from_o be_v just_o culpable_a in_o this_o respect_n if_o we_o have_v intend_v the_o thing_n which_o he_o report_v we_o will_v never_o have_v use_v such_o a_o reason_n as_o he_o true_o report_v we_o to_o use_v viz._n that_o by_o appeal_n upon_o appeal_n cause_n according_a to_o our_o brethren_n way_n may_v be_v so_o protract_v as_o never_o to_o be_v determine_v nor_o end_v for_o this_o reason_n have_v neither_o strength_n nor_o colour_n of_o strength_n for_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o he_o say_v we_o bring_v it_o for_o inasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o the_o jew_n have_v a_o supreme_a judicatory_a for_o the_o final_a end_n of_o cause_n among_o they_o and_o therefore_o to_o say_v that_o our_o brethren_n do_v judaize_v and_o then_o to_o give_v that_o for_o a_o
of_o the_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n his_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o use_n of_o the_o key_n where_o a_o scandalous_a person_n may_v infect_v the_o lord_n flock_n for_o where_o vision_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v but_o it_o be_v never_o say_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v pag._n 455._o answ_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n prov._n 26._o 18._o be_v mean_v discipline_n yea_o discipline_n not_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o comprehend_v general_o all_o order_n and_o behaviour_n concern_v a_o church_n and_o outward_a duty_n therein_o but_o discipline_n strict_o take_v for_o administration_n of_o censure_n for_o of_o this_o be_v one_o question_n how_o i_o say_v shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n be_v mean_v this_o discipline_n the_o usual_a expositor_n tremeliâ—â—_n and_o junius_n 〈…〉_z and_o other_o do_v expound_v the_o same_o of_o the_o preach_a and_o dispense_n of_o the_o word_n make_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o discipline_n as_o mean_v thereby_o and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d branch_n of_o the_o verse_n he_o â—hat_n keep_v the_o law_n be_v bless_v do_v â—hew_v that_o by_o vision_n in_o the_o former_a branch_n be_v mean_v the_o law_n or_o doctrine_n or_o word_n of_o god_n and_o if_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o sâ—y_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v yet_o neither_o do_v it_o say_v where_o administration_n of_o censure_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v and_o therefore_o no_o necessity_n of_o censure_n above_o sacrament_n can_v be_v conclude_v hence_o uncalled_a minister_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n from_o a_o presbytery_n may_v preach_v and_o take_v on_o they_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o exercise_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n require_v so_o answ_n if_o they_o may_v do_v these_o thing_n without_o ordination_n as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o deny_v it_o not_o so_o that_o the_o election_n or_o consent_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v not_o wanâ—ing_v for_o that_o i_o suppose_v may_v be_v a_o good_a part_n of_o a_o outward_a calling_n than_o i_o demand_v whether_o one_o minister_n alone_o may_v not_o thus_o do_v i_o mean_v whether_o one_o alone_o may_v not_o in_o the_o case_n propose_v take_v on_o he_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o preach_v the_o word_n as_o a_o minister_n if_o many_o may_v do_v it_o than_o i_o suppose_v there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o one_o may_v do_v it_o much_o rather_o and_o if_o so_o than_o i_o demand_v further_o whether_o such_o a_o single_a minister_n may_v not_o also_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v for_o if_o he_o lawful_o take_v on_o he_o the_o ministry_n and_o preach_v as_o a_o minister_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o he_o may_v also_o baptise_v and_o minister_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o if_o he_o may_v thus_o do_v than_o i_o demand_v last_o whether_o this_o single_a minister_n may_v also_o administer_v discipline_n and_o censure_n in_o that_o congregation_n if_o he_o may_v then_o either_o the_o power_n of_o those_o censure_n must_v be_v in_o himself_o alone_o or_o in_o the_o congregation_n also_o in_o himself_o alone_a it_o can_v be_v because_o censure_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n and_o one_o man_n alone_o can_v be_v a_o church_n if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n also_o then_o here_o be_v a_o power_n of_o excommunication_n or_o other_o censure_n even_o in_o the_o people_n which_o be_v against_o our_o brother_n judgement_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o single_a minister_n as_o long_o as_o he_o wanâ—s_v other_o minister_n join_v with_o he_o may_v not_o administer_v censure_n or_o discipline_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o power_n of_o censure_n be_v not_o always_o annex_v to_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o inseparable_a adjunct_n thereof_o nor_o be_v censure_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o sacrament_n as_o more_o necessary_a as_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v it_o for_o as_o much_o as_o here_o be_v a_o ministry_n and_o the_o administer_a of_o sacrament_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o congregation_n require_v so_o and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o not_o any_o power_n of_o censure_n at_o all_o our_o brother_n therefore_o may_v make_v his_o choice_n whether_o he_o will_v grant_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o discipline_n to_o be_v in_o the_o people_n or_o whether_o he_o will_v say_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o a_o congregation_n do_v require_v sacrament_n more_o than_o discipline_n for_o though_o these_o be_v both_o against_o himself_o yet_o upon_o the_o ground_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o lay_v the_o one_o of_o the_o two_o be_v unavoidable_a but_o i_o hope_v no_o necessity_n in_o any_o of_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a case_n require_v that_o a_o midwife_n may_v baptise_v or_o that_o a_o private_a man_n remain_v a_o private_a man_n may_v celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o church_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o church_n answ_n concern_v the_o midwife_n i_o think_v the_o same_o that_o he_o do_v and_o concern_v the_o private_a man_n i_o also_o therein_o â—â—curre_v that_o without_o call_v from_o the_o church_n he_o may_v not_o perform_v what_o here_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o here_o i_o will_v make_v this_o quare_fw-la whether_o 〈◊〉_d man_n that_o never_o be_v a_o minister_n may_v not_o as_o well_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n perform_v 〈◊〉_d act_n of_o administer_a of_o baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o 〈◊〉_d bytery_n or_o the_o church_n unto_o who_o the_o office_n of_o ministry_n as_o take_v on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o call_n the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o so_o preach_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o a_o minister_n for_o as_o for_o the_o one_o of_o these_o our_o brother_n express_o grant_v a_o man_n mâ—y_o lawful_o take_v it_o on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o calling_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n require_v so_o and_o if_o this_o necessity_n will_v warrant_v the_o one_o which_o be_v the_o whole_a and_o so_o the_o great_a why_o will_v it_o not_o warrant_v the_o other_o which_o be_v but_o one_o act_n and_o so_o the_o lesser_a one_o will_v think_v one_o act_n of_o dispense_n baptism_n or_o the_o supper_n be_v a_o lesser_a matter_n than_o the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o all_o the_o action_n thereof_o and_o marvel_v it_o be_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n shall_v warrant_v this_o which_o be_v the_o great_a and_o yet_o the_o same_o necessity_n shall_v not_o be_v sufficient_a warrant_n for_o the_o lesser_a a_o man_n calling_n be_v otherwise_o alike_o unto_o both_o that_o be_v have_v a_o outward_a call_n to_o neither_o himself_o do_v sometime_o reason_n thus_o if_o we_o give_v to_o believer_n that_o be_v not_o in_o office_n one_o pastoral_a act_n we_o may_v with_o the_o like_a weight_n of_o reason_n give_v they_o all_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 272._o now_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a from_o one_o act_n to_o all_o why_o be_v no_o this_o as_o good_a from_o all_o to_o any_o one_o or_o to_o some_o one_o and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o in_o like_a manner_n argue_v thus_o if_o person_n uncalled_a may_v without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o whole_a ministry_n why_o may_v not_o person_n uncalled_a without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o to_o baptise_v or_o minister_v the_o supper_n not_o that_o i_o think_v such_o a_o practice_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o only_o i_o intend_v to_o make_v quaere_fw-la about_o the_o validity_n of_o our_o brother_n kind_n of_o argue_v yea_o it_o be_v elsewhere_o his_o argue_v that_o it_o person_n not_o in_o office_n of_o ministry_n may_v execute_v censure_n and_o discipline_n they_o may_v then_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n for_o say_v he_o what_o hinder_v by_o this_o reason_n but_o they_o may_v also_o without_o minister_n preach_v and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n peaceable_a plea_n page_n 196._o yea_o say_v he_o i_o sâ—e_v not_o but_o with_o a_o like_a warrant_n private_a man_n may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la page_n 196._o this_o we_o see_v be_v his_o argue_v elsewhere_o and_o yet_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o grant_v that_o person_n uncalled_a may_v in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o ministry_n in_o general_a and_o in_o particular_a may_v exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o he_o say_v that_o no_o
that_o other_o church_n in_o such_o ease_n may_v take_v away_o the_o power_n from_o such_o a_o church_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v this_o will_v not_o follow_v at_o all_o no_o more_o than_o the_o other_o for_o though_o christ_n have_v not_o give_v to_o any_o church_n a_o power_n of_o male_a administration_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n speak_v yet_o have_v he_o give_v to_o every_o church_n a_o power_n of_o administration_n which_o if_o they_o manage_v not_o aright_o but_o do_v abuse_v the_o same_o the_o lord_n jesus_n will_v be_v displease_v with_o they_o for_o this_o abuse_n and_o other_o church_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o advise_v they_o and_o admonish_v they_o and_o testify_v against_o they_o for_o the_o same_o but_o for_o the_o power_n itself_o as_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forthwith_o deprive_v they_o thereof_o so_o much_o less_o may_v other_o church_n take_v it_o from_o they_o for_o who_o give_v they_o this_o authority_n per_fw-la in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la potestatem_fw-la and_o church_n be_v all_o of_o equal_a authority_n and_o not_o one_o superior_a or_o inferior_a to_o another_o as_o therefore_o when_o child_n or_o servant_n in_o a_o family_n be_v not_o govern_v as_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v yet_o neighbour_n family_n have_v not_o warrant_v because_o of_o this_o male_a administration_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n and_o destroy_v the_o power_n of_o such_o a_o family_n even_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n of_o church_n this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o church_n be_v not_o forthwith_o a_o sufficient_a warrant_n for_o neighbour_n church_n to_o invade_v the_o right_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o to_o take_v away_o its_o power_n from_o it_o especial_o if_o we_o do_v consider_v that_o this_o maladministration_n in_o a_o congregation_n may_v possible_o be_v but_o pretend_v and_o not_o real_a and_o that_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o class_n may_v paradventure_o be_v real_o such_o in_o which_o case_n mr._n rutherford_n say_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la be_v not_o of_o christ_n but_o their_o voice_n ought_v the_o jure_v to_o be_v swallow_v up_o by_o the_o congregation_n and_o the_o elder_n thereof_o this_o argument_n therefore_o from_o maladministration_n of_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n which_o mr_n rutherford_n say_v it_o be_v reason_n shall_v be_v destroy_v by_o another_o power_n add_v to_o it_o mean_v the_o power_n of_o a_o classis_fw-la be_v of_o no_o sufficient_a force_n to_o take_v away_o the_o power_n of_o a_o congregation_n at_o all_o not_o to_o establish_v the_o power_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la over_o the_o same_o be_v as_o just_o applyable_a against_o the_o classis_fw-la itself_o therefore_o for_o aught_o that_o do_v yet_o appear_v supreme_a ministerial_a church_n power_n which_o i_o conceive_v must_v needs_o be_v somewhere_o may_v as_o well_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o in_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o can_v neither_o by_o this_o argument_n of_o maladministration_n nor_o by_o any_o other_o that_o we_o have_v yet_o see_v be_v place_v in_o the_o classis_fw-la any_o more_fw-it then_o in_o the_o congregation_n chap._n xii_o whether_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v judge_n and_o whether_o mr._n rutherford_n can_v safe_o say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v and_o whether_o this_o say_n that_o party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v against_o entireness_n of_o power_n in_o a_o congation_n any_o more_o than_o in_o a_o general_a or_o national_n council_n the_o next_o place_n where_o mr._n rutherford_n deal_v with_o the_o answer_n be_v in_o his_o p._n 456._o where_o allege_v mr._n tompson_n and_o i_o page_z 5._o he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o we_o viz._n if_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o sole_a judge_n which_o must_v be_v if_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n be_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o we_o grant_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o the_o congregation_n be_v in_o a_o island_n itself_o alone_o and_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n it_o must_v then_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o a_o congregation_n though_o consociate_v with_o other_o congregation_n have_v entire_a jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o answ_n our_o word_n in_o the_o page_n allege_v be_v more_o prospicuous_a and_o clear_a than_o these_o which_o be_v here_o set_v down_o for_o we_o neither_o do_v we_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n nor_o yet_o of_o a_o congregation_n consociate_v with_o other_o church_n lest_o of_o all_o do_v we_o say_v or_o report_v other_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n none_o of_o these_o thing_n be_v we_o and_o therefore_o that_o our_o true_a meaning_n may_v plain_o appear_v as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v transcribe_v a_o few_o of_o our_o word_n which_o be_v these_o viz._n sure_a we_o can_v think_v that_o there_o can_v be_v such_o a_o case_n imagine_v wherein_o you_o will_v grant_v it_o lawful_a for_o a_o single_a congregation_n to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n and_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n and_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o case_n may_v be_v such_o that_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o which_o seem_v to_o we_o plain_o to_o prove_v that_o for_o a_o congregation_n to_o be_v so_o independent_a as_o to_o be_v the_o final_a judge_n of_o offence_n within_o itself_o be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n nor_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o be_v intimate_v by_o you_o these_o be_v our_o word_n much_o differ_v from_o those_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n set_v down_o as_o we_o which_o i_o think_v meet_v to_o relate_v out_o of_o the_o answer_n that_o our_o meaning_n may_v appear_v as_o it_o be_v and_o no_o otherwise_o and_o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o our_o brother_n subjoin_v for_o answer_v none_o of_o we_o say_v he_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n it_o may_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o general_a council_n lawful_o convene_v from_o which_o their_o be_v no_o provocation_n yea_o and_o in_o a_o national_n council_n for_o all_o counsel_n may_v err_v the_o adverse_a party_n may_v judge_v as_o it_o be_v a_o lawful_a council_n according_a to_o a_o church_n constitution_n that_o condemn_v christ_n of_o blasphemy_n and_o they_o be_v also_o his_o enemy_n answ_n and_o may_v it_o not_o also_o fall_v out_o in_o a_o provincial_a synod_n and_o in_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o presbtytery_n of_o many_o church_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o the_o judge_n in_o all_o these_o may_v be_v the_o adverse_a party_n and_o so_o if_o the_o adverse_a party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n than_o neither_o general_n nor_o national_n counsel_n nor_o provincial_n synod_n nor_o class_n nor_o presbytery_n may_v be_v judge_n because_o there_o be_v none_o of_o these_o but_o possible_o they_o may_v be_v party_n and_o so_o this_o argument_n party_n may_v not_o be_v judge_n do_v make_v no_o more_o against_o the_o congregation_n power_n of_o judge_v then_o against_o all_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n whatsoever_o unless_o therefore_o man_n will_v overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n whatsoever_o without_o exception_n of_o any_o they_o can_v have_v no_o help_n from_o this_o argument_n to_o overthrow_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o congregation_n not_o to_o insist_v upon_o that_o which_o may_v also_o be_v true_o allege_v that_o the_o objection_n have_v the_o like_a force_n if_o any_o at_o all_o against_o civil_a judicatories_n but_o be_v it_o so_o indeed_o as_o our_o brother_n affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n be_v the_o judge_n i_o think_v he_o shall_v not_o thus_o have_v speak_v for_o i_o be_o much_o mistake_v if_o the_o contrary_a hereunto_o be_v not_o certain_o true_a for_o first_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o reverend_a mr_n herle_n in_o his_o book_n of_o independency_n page_n 5._o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n page_n 6_o the_o very_a pag._n which_o here_o mr_n rutherford_n be_v deal_v against_o in_o which_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_v there_o be_v these_o word_n viz._n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v gradual_a judicatories_n wherein_o the_o aggrieved_a party_n may_v appeal_v from_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o high_a that_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n the_o adverse_a party_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a
then_o that_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v may_v so_o assemble_v much_o more_o for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o impossibility_n but_o a_o company_n that_o be_v great_a may_n so_o assemble_v i_o suppose_v the_o same_o can_v be_v deny_v of_o a_o company_n that_o be_v lesser_a again_o to_o say_v this_o whole_a church_n be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v direct_o to_o gainsay_v himself_o who_o in_o page_n 460_o 461._o make_v the_o much_o people_n a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o congregation_n meet_v for_o the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o church_n censure_n because_o such_o a_o congregation_n he_o say_v can_v not_o convenient_o exceed_v one_o thousand_o whereas_o the_o much_o people_n must_v be_v much_o in_o comparison_n of_o thousand_o of_o jew_n who_o reject_v christ_n for_o that_o otherwise_o it_o will_v not_o have_v be_v much_o for_o paul_n comfort_n for_o which_o end_n it_o be_v mention_v and_o bring_v if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v less_o than_o the_o people_n that_o believe_v than_o it_o follow_v that_o some_o of_o those_o believer_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v page_n 125._o 242._o 251._o will_v not_o stand_v for_o in_o page_n 125_o he_o say_v that_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o which_o make_v one_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o by_o this_o be_v all_o the_o citizen_n and_o domestics_n inchurched_n and_o receive_v into_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o page_n 242._o he_o say_v any_o who_o blamelesse_o profess_v christ_n be_v ecclesiastical_o in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la a_o true_a and_o valid_a member_n of_o the_o church_n visible_a have_v ecclesiastical_a power_n valid_a for_o that_o effect_n and_o page_n 251._o he_o say_v a_o visible_a profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o doctrine_n of_o golinesse_n be_v that_o which_o essential_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n now_o if_o these_o thing_n be_v so_o than_o it_o follow_v that_o this_o whole_a people_n that_o believe_v be_v all_o of_o they_o member_n of_o the_o church_n inasmuch_o as_o they_o be_v all_o partaker_n of_o baptism_n and_o profession_n which_o he_o say_v do_v essential_o constitute_v the_o visible_a church_n and_o every_o member_n thereof_o and_o they_o be_v all_o member_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o lesser_a company_n than_o they_o nor_o can_v he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o great_a company_n for_o the_o reason_n mention_v before_o and_o if_o it_o be_v neither_o a_o great_a company_n nor_o a_o lesser_a be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o same_o and_o if_o it_o be_v the_o same_o then_o how_o can_v this_o stand_v which_o he_o affirm_v in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n where_o he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o which_o way_n soever_o he_o shall_v take_v his_o own_o pen_n will_v be_v witness_n against_o himself_o for_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o the_o whole_a much_o people_n that_o believe_v and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o much_o people_n that_o believe_v be_v a_o great_a number_n than_o the_o whole_a church_n meet_v for_o word_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o in_o a_o three_o place_n he_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o effect_v it_o be_v not_o great_a inasmuch_o as_o all_o baptise_a profess_v believer_n he_o say_v be_v of_o the_o church_n further_o when_o the_o text_n speak_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o in_o some_o place_n let_v the_o wise_a judge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o good_a exposition_n to_o say_v by_o the_o whole_a be_v not_o mean_v the_o whole_a but_o only_o a_o part_n which_o i_o conceive_v be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n who_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o the_o whole_a do_v come_v together_o in_o any_o one_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o the_o whole_a be_v distribute_v into_o several_a part_n and_o those_o part_n into_o several_a place_n so_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n come_v together_o into_o some_o place_n must_v have_v this_o meaning_n the_o whole_a come_v not_o together_o in_o any_o place_n but_o part_n in_o one_o place_n and_o part_n in_o another_o which_o i_o fear_n be_v too_o much_o violence_n offer_v to_o the_o sacred_a text_n which_o shall_v be_v handle_v with_o reverence_n but_o he_o bring_v a_o reason_n for_o this_o exposition_n and_o that_o be_v this_o because_o else_o we_o must_v say_v that_o at_o any_o one_o assembly_n all_o the_o prophet_n and_o teacher_n do_v prophesy_v at_o corinth_n for_o the_o text_n say_v he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o whereas_o the_o consequence_n shall_v be_v absurd_a it_o shall_v be_v a_o longsome_a and_o wearisome_a meeting_n page_z 465._o answ_n and_o if_o they_o prophesy_v not_o all_o in_o one_o assembly_n but_o divers_a how_o can_v the_o unbeliever_n be_v convince_v and_o judge_v by_o they_o all_o it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o conceive_v how_o it_o can_v be_v they_o prophesy_v in_o such_o a_o way_n for_o the_o unbeliever_n sure_o can_v not_o be_v present_a in_o sundry_a assembly_n at_o once_o but_o in_o one_o only_a and_o therefore_o those_o word_n he_o be_v convince_v of_o all_o he_o be_v judge_v of_o all_o will_v lay_v as_o much_o absurdity_n upon_o his_o exposition_n of_o the_o word_n as_o upon_o we_o or_o rather_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o for_o as_o for_o we_o there_o be_v no_o absurdity_n therein_o at_o all_o for_o asmuch_o as_o by_o all_o the_o prophet_n be_v mean_v all_o that_o prophesy_v at_o the_o time_n when_o the_o unbeliever_n be_v present_a and_o not_o that_o all_o must_v prophesy_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o the_o text_n do_v not_o so_o say_v nor_o any_o interpreter_n that_o i_o have_v meet_v withal_o sure_o i_o be_o beza_n say_v the_o express_a contrary_n for_o upon_o verse_n 31._o you_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o etc._n etc._n he_o have_v this_o note_n non_fw-la eodem_fw-la sane_fw-la die_fw-la sed_fw-la ternis_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v indeed_o not_o all_o upon_o one_o day_n which_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n but_o three_o at_o every_o moe_v have_v their_o turn_n to_o speak_v till_o all_o have_v speak_v by_o course_n interpreter_n say_v they_o meet_v in_o divers_a assembly_n page_n 465._o answ_n let_v those_o interpreter_n be_v name_v and_o there_o word_n set_v down_o and_o then_o by_o god_n help_n we_o shall_v consider_v of_o what_o they_o say_v and_o of_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n thereof_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o say_v that_o interpreter_n say_v it_o and_o yet_o neither_o to_o tell_v we_o the_o reason_n nor_o the_o word_n of_o those_o interpreter_n nor_o so_o much_o as_o the_o name_n of_o any_o of_o they_o how_o shall_v this_o prevail_v with_o we_o to_o turn_v we_o away_o from_o our_o former_a apprehension_n in_o the_o point_n true_a it_o be_v in_o another_o place_n etc._n etc._n pag_n 461._o speak_v of_o verse_n 31._o yea_o may_v all_o prophesy_v one_o by_o one_o he_o there_o tell_v we_o that_o diodatus_n understand_v it_o that_o they_o may_v prophecy_n by_o course_n and_o in_o divers_a or_o sundry_a assembly_n and_o essius_n say_v he_o say_v the_o same_o to_o wit_n that_o these_o prophet_n be_v to_o prophesy_v in_o divers_a assembly_n answ_n for_o diodatus_n i_o have_v he_o not_o at_o hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o can_v peruse_v the_o place_n but_o for_o estius_n this_o i_o may_v say_v that_o he_o neither_o say_v what_o here_o be_v report_v in_o his_o commentary_n upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v nor_o upon_o any_o verse_n else_o in_o all_o the_o chapter_n as_o far_o as_o i_o can_v observe_v and_o i_o have_v read_v and_o peruse_v he_o on_o purpose_n to_o see_v what_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o he_o but_o though_o i_o can_v find_v he_o affirm_v that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n bring_v he_o for_o yet_o i_o find_v sundry_a place_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o affirm_v the_o contrary_a for_o instance_n comment_v upon_o the_o verse_n allege_v he_o have_v these_o word_n as_o the_o sense_n which_o he_o most_o prefer_v viz._n quod_fw-la si_fw-la non_fw-la unus_fw-la tantum_fw-la propheta_fw-la sed_fw-la plures_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o not_o only_o one_o prophet_n but_o sundry_a yea_o all_o do_v speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n in_o order_n it_o will_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o those_o all_o may_v also_o learn_v and_o receive_v exhortation_n there_o be_v never_o a_o one_o of_o they_o who_o be_v not_o also_o a_o hearer_n wherein_o we_o see_v he_o speak_v not_o
1_o the_o substance_n of_o their_o call_n consist_v not_o in_o this_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o and_o what_o shall_v that_o be_v but_o their_o election_n by_o the_o people_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o then_o then_o why_o be_v a_o consummatory_n rite_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n gainsay_v and_o oppose_v for_o what_o great_a difference_n be_v there_o between_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n and_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o how_o shall_v he_o be_v reconcile_v with_o himself_o that_o say_v it_o be_v nothing_o but_o such_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v and_o yet_o will_v not_o yield_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o for_o the_o other_o particular_a where_o he_o say_v this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v enjoy_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n if_o by_o ministerial_a act_n he_o mean_v a_o act_n that_o can_v be_v lawful_o perform_v by_o none_o but_o only_o by_o a_o minister_n then_o i_o desire_v some_o proof_n that_o this_o be_v so_o enjoin_v to_o timothy_n that_o it_o be_v enjoin_v to_o he_o i_o grant_v but_o that_o it_o be_v so_o enjoin_v needs_o some_o better_a proof_n than_o a_o bare_a and_o naked_a affirmation_n special_o since_o many_o thing_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n in_o those_o example_n which_o be_v and_o be_v just_o applyable_a to_o all_o christian_n furthermore_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v enjoin_v to_o timothy_n as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n how_o do_v this_o reach_n to_o make_v good_a the_o thing_n in_o question_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o the_o people_n election_n may_v contain_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v notwithstanding_o or_o how_o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n but_o something_o more_o be_v there_o any_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n here_o that_o the_o one_o of_o these_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o other_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o nor_o see_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_a but_o if_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v such_o a_o ministerial_a act_n as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v yet_o it_o may_v still_o be_v mere_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o call_n consist_v still_o in_o the_o people_n election_n himself_o do_v say_v as_o we_o hear_v even_o now_o that_o imposition_n of_o hand_n act._n 6._o though_o here_o he_o call_v it_o a_o ministerial_a act_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o the_o deacon_n and_o therefore_o these_o two_o to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o yet_o to_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o prayer_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n which_o to_o i_o be_v the_o same_o be_v not_o so_o inconsistent_a by_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o that_o they_o may_v well_o stand_v together_o and_o himself_o do_v also_o hold_v that_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n mention_v numb_a 8._o 10._o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n and_o that_o they_o who_o do_v it_o perform_v the_o same_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o levite_n call_v be_v in_o the_o immediate_a designment_n and_o appointment_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o not_o in_o the_o performance_n of_o this_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v grant_v to_o be_v a_o ministerial_a act_n yet_o still_o it_o may_v be_v mere_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o the_o substance_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o minister_n call_v not_o consist_v in_o it_o but_o in_o some_o thing_n else_o a_o ministerial_a call_n stand_v in_o a_o authoritative_a send_n rom._n 10._o 15._o and_o i_o see_v not_o well_o how_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o answ_n but_o it_o be_v not_o easy_a to_o see_v how_o they_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o be_v send_v unto_o they_o by_o god_n and_o if_o god_n do_v furnish_v a_o man_n with_o gift_n and_o a_o holy_a propensity_n of_o mind_n to_o the_o work_n in_o general_a and_o to_o such_o or_o such_o a_o people_n in_o particular_a and_o make_v way_n by_o his_o providence_n thereto_o than_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o such_o a_o man_n be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n and_o then_o if_o that_o people_n observe_v god_n send_v of_o he_o in_o this_o sâ—â—t_n do_v hereupon_o elect_v and_o choose_v he_o and_o promise_v to_o be_v obedient_a to_o he_o in_o the_o lord_n what_o be_v there_o now_o want_v to_o the_o substance_n and_o offence_n of_o such_o a_o man_n calling_n to_o such_o a_o people_n and_o yet_o the_o man_n be_v not_o send_v by_o they_o to_o themselves_o but_o send_v by_o god_n and_o receive_v and_o choose_v by_o they_o parcus_n understand_v this_o send_n rom._n 10._o of_o god_n send_v and_o so_o do_v piscator_fw-la and_o who_o not_o and_o to_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o will_v be_v to_o condemn_v the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n who_o be_v not_o send_v by_o man_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o do_v true_o answer_v this_o scripture_n in_o that_o they_o be_v send_v of_o god_n true_a it_o be_v ordinary_a minister_n be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n as_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n be_v but_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n and_o by_o ordinary_a mean_n which_o way_n and_o mean_n if_o they_o do_v observe_v they_o also_o may_v be_v true_o say_v to_o be_v send_v of_o god_n unto_o the_o people_n but_o peradventure_o our_o brother_n mean_v that_o the_o people_n may_v not_o lawful_o choose_v a_o man_n for_o minister_v unto_o themselves_o except_o he_o be_v first_o send_v unto_o they_o in_o a_o authoritative_a way_n by_o some_o other_o man_n and_o that_o otherwise_o he_o be_v not_o send_v unto_o they_o of_o god_n which_o if_o it_o be_v true_a than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n as_o i_o say_v be_v not_o send_v of_o god_n for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o man_n send_v they_o not_o it_o will_v also_o hereupon_o be_v requisite_a to_o be_v clear_v that_o some_o man_n beside_o the_o church_n have_v authority_n to_o send_v minister_n to_o the_o church_n and_o who_o these_o man_n be_v that_o have_v such_o authority_n have_v need_v to_o be_v clear_v also_o which_o i_o for_o my_o part_n think_v will_v not_o be_v do_v in_o haste_n and_o till_o this_o be_v do_v i_o know_v no_o reason_n but_o i_o may_v still_o retain_v this_o apprehension_n that_o man_n who_o be_v qualify_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n and_o due_o elect_v and_o choose_v to_o some_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o god_n people_n be_v true_o send_v of_o god_n unto_o that_o people_n the_o people_n have_v not_o either_o formal_o or_o by_o grant_n of_o christ_n virtual_o the_o key_n commit_v to_o they_o how_o then_o can_v they_o give_v the_o key_n to_o pastor_n answ_n yet_o in_o p._n 7._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o he_o deny_v not_o but_o there_o be_v a_o power_n virtual_a not_o formal_a in_o the_o church_n of_o believer_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n or_o some_o other_o act_n of_o the_o key_n simple_o necessary_a hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la and_o this_o power_n say_v he_o be_v virtual_a not_o formal_a now_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n neither_o formal_o nor_o virtual_o and_o yet_o to_o say_v they_o have_v this_o power_n virtual_o though_o not_o formal_o what_o be_v it_o but_o a_o apparent_a contradiction_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o the_o people_n have_v not_o this_o power_n either_o formal_o or_o virtual_o yet_o mr._n ball_n and_o mr._n baiâ—s_v afore_o he_o do_v tell_v we_o that_o ministerial_o they_o may_v give_v what_o they_o never_o have_v viz._n as_o minister_a to_o he_o who_o have_v power_n and_o virtue_n of_o derive_v it_o as_o a_o man_n not_o 〈◊〉_d a_o penny_n of_o his_o own_o may_v give_v a_o 100_o l._n if_o the_o king_n make_v he_o his_o almoner_n thus_o the_o church_n derive_v aâ—_n take_v the_o person_n who_o christ_n describe_v and_o out_o of_o power_n will_v â—ave_n place_v in_o this_o or_o that_o office_n in_o his_o church_n the_o power_n of_o the_o imperial_a dignity_n be_v not_o in_o the_o elector_n of_o the_o emperor_n nor_o the_o power_n of_o that_o office_n and_o authority_n whereunto_o a_o minister_n be_v elect_v in_o the_o church_n who_o choose_v he_o to_o that_o office_n ball_n trial_n of_o separate_a pag._n 239_o 240._o pag._n 494_o 495._o people_n may_v as_o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n discern_v his_o voice_n joh._n 10._o and_o so_o have_v a_o power_n of_o election_n of_o their_o own_o pastor_n nor_o do_v this_o