tongue And truly unlesse there be some controversie concerning the Interpretation or about the text as there is not here I conceive it the greatest folly in the world writing in the vulgar tongue and for the common benefit of all men to insert sentences either of Greek or Latin except very varly for it but pudders the reader that is not skilled in the languages neither do we finde that it was the custome either of the holy Prophets or any of the ancient Greek or Roman fathers in all their Writings or Sermons to use any but their vulgar tongue without it were very seldom and that with interpretation I say therefore those flashes being excepted I have punctually set down all that he had to say against any of my arguments both here and every where that neither he nor any of his party may complain that I had not set down their words in their full strength and so might fall into the same condemnation with him who hacketh and minseth my arguments at pleasure picking and choosing what he thinks himself best able to deal with either wholly omitting the other or slighting of them which is the ordinary method both of Mr Knollys J. S. and my brother Burton and all the Independents wherein they deal not fairly with me nor ingenuously nor candidly with the people for in so doing they delude them and meerly play the juglers This large discourse of Master Knollys if it be well weighed hath but little substance in it it consisting of absurdities and contraditions and flat denyalls of that which he often granteth In breife if the reader will but duly consider every passage of his answer with whathe grants in the third and the 11. pages of his pamplet he will speedily perceive that whiles he labours to confute others he gives a fatall blow to his own cause and overthrowes that opinion which both he and all those of the congregationall way labour to maintaine and withall by the examination of the particulars he will the better discerne into the futility of Master Knollys and the vanity of those of his party that beleeve take every word of his for an Oracle though it be never so distructive totheir own cause The sum of this his answer is this that I am mistaken in my comentary exposition and application of this place of Scripture These are his words It will not be amisse therefore in the first place to take notice what he denyeth in his answer and what he affirmeth with the reasons of both that the reader may the more easily perceive the vanity of error and the force and efficacy of truth First he denyeth that Diotrephes would have had an absolvte jurisdiction within himself and have had his Congregation independent and that he was the first that opposed the Presbyterian Government or that he had any particular congregation He deneyeth also that Saint Iohn knew any Court or Common counsell of Presbyters either Classicall or Synodicall to appeale to his time The reasons of his denyals are these First because saith he there is no mention made of any particular congregation Diotrephes had Secondly it is not declared what it was that Saint Iohn had writ unto the Church in his Epistle nor in any other Scripture except it were to receive those brethren which Diotrephes would not receive and therfore how saith God can the Dâ— affirme that Diotrephes asmed theypower to himself which belonged unto the Colledge and councell of Presbyters c and to prove that Diotrephes was not the first that opposed the Presbyterian government he saith had he done so then he should have been convented before them which he was not and therefore he did not oppose a Court or common Councell of Presbyters Besides Saint Iohn would then have wrot rather to the Colledge of Presbyters if they had been any such than to the Church or in writing to the Church would rather have sent him a summons to appeare at some Consistory than to warne them to take heede of his evill that they did not follow it and doubtlesse he would have written thus Diotrephes loves to be a Primate amongst you therefore when the Presbytery comes to keepe order and to meet together in a Court common Councell I will remember his deeds and informe and complaine to the Court that he prats against us with malicious words Now when neither of this was done by the Presbytry nor by Saint Iohn it is manifest that Diotrephes did not oppose the Presbytry and that Saint Iohn then knew not of any Court or common councell of Presbyters either Classicall or Synodicall to appeale to in his time And then in the third place he putteth me upon the proofe of those appeales I made mention of page 10. affirming that I cannot make them good And in the last place he afferteth that Saint Iohn wâ—it to the Church and particular congregation whereof Diotrephes was a member and that that congregation had power to judge of him and the reason of this his assertion is because saith he this Church had the same power over Diotrephes that the Church of Corinth and that of Colosse had over their members Having thus briefly set down what Master Knollys both denies and affirmes with the reasons of each I shall now answer to every severall branch in order and if I be the more large in my reply I crave pardon in regard it is not only a businesse of publicke concernment and about the principle question now in debate but that it will give the more light to the wholo following discourse For answer therefore to his reason of my mistake in my commentary exposition and application of that place of Scripture viz that there is no mention made of any particular congregation that Diotrephes had I say there was no neede of making any mention of it For if there were many Presbyters in all the Primative and Apostolicall churches and in that Church by name in which Diotrephes was Presbyter as it is evident out of all the places above quoted as out of the 14. of the Acts and the 15. and 20. and 21. of the same booke and the Epistle of Paul to Tit. Chap. 1. ver 5. and the 1. Epist oâ— Pet. chap 5. ver 1. 2. 3. and the 13. of the Heb. and Saint Iames the 5. and the 3. Epistle of Saint Iohn which Master Knollys himself acknowledgeth and if it be also apparently evident from all those severall Scriptures as it is that those Presbyters were fixed with in their particular jurisdictions with a speciall charge given them in common to looke unto the flocks committed unto their charge and to feede the Church of God which he had redeemed with his precious blood which word feede includes the Keys to wit the power of order and preaching and the authority of jurisdiction and rule and from the which charge they were not to depart as too too many of the Independent Ministers now amongst us dayly do
it I am so well assured that it is Gods Ordinance as I am of any point in Religion But as I said before if men may argue after this way The Presbyters in the Apostles times did miracles and sâ—ake with strange tongues and their Schollers and Disciples did the same doe you likewise and then we will acknowledge you to be true Presbyters otherwise wee will not Thus the Jewes might have argued against all their Prophets as against Isaiah Ieremy Ezekiel c. Moses and Elias fasted forty dayes and forty nights and did many miracles do you so and then we will beleeve you are true Prophets and sent to us of God otherwise we will not beleeve you to be true Prophets Yea all the wicked and ungodly men of these times may argue thus also God gave unto his Church Apostles Evangelists Prophets c. and they spake all strange tongues and divers languages and did many miracles but you and your Congregations have neither Apostles Prophets nor Evangelists nor ye have not the gifts of Tongues nor yee can do no Miracle Ergo you are not the true Church The Primitive Christians and the servants of God in those times had the gifts of Tongues and Prophesie and the holy Ghost came down upon them and they spake by direction from God his infallible truth and Gospell whose speeches were not tyed to time and to one speaker but many spake one after another by Interpreters as it is at large set down in the 1. of the Corinthians chap. 14. vers 27. 28 29 30. c. So that they spake infallible truth by direction from God But you have none in your Congregations so miraculously inspired with sundry languages and divers tongues nor ye do not speake infallible truths by direction from God nor you cannot cure diseases nor do miracles Ergò your religion is not the same Religion nor your Congregations the true Church shew us these miracles and then we will beleeve you to be the true Church otherwise we may not we dare not acknowledge you to be the true Church Again they may argue thus The Apostles and Primitive Pastors and Teachers preached freely and laboured with their own hands and were helpfull to the necessities of others and were not burthensome and exacting from others and spake ex tempore by direction from God but your Ministers in your Congregations do not preach freely nor labour not with their own hands nor are not helpfull to to others necessities but are rather burdensome and exacting from others nor they do no miracles nor speake not immediately by inspiration and ex tempore but by Study and out of their Bookes and are confined to time and speake not in strange tongues and languages one after another by Interpreters Ergò Your Ministers are not Gods Ministers nor your Congregations the true Church nor your people true Christians for you want all those things that the Primitive Christians and the Primitive Churches had There is a Pamphlet lately come out and highly esteemed and prised amongst many full of such consequences as these which if they hold good against the Presbyters they may also for ought I know be of equall validity to overthrow not onely all Christian Congregations but indeed all Christian Religion But briefly to answer We look upon the Apostles and Primitive Presbyters as men miraculously and extraordinarily gifted and as wonder-working men for the confirmation of the truth of the Gospell to all succeeding ages and we consider in them and in the Christians of those times something extraordinary and temporary as their working of miracles and speaking of strange tongues and gifts of healing c. And those we conceive were to continue no longer in the church then for the confirmation of the truth of the Gospel Christ himselfe proclaiming those blessed that believe without seeing of miracles speaking unto Thomas Iohn 20. 29. Because thou hast seen me saith he thou believest blessed are they that have not seen and have believed So that miracles now are not ordinary and we are tied to the written Word But we consider likewise in the Apostles and Primitive Presbyters that that was permanent and to continue in all Ministers and Presbyters in succeeding ages to the end of the world and that was the power of order and preaching and the power of jurisdiction that is of ruling which is not denied by the most learned of the Independents themselves and this I have proved by the Word of God to be transacted over to all Christian Churches whose Presbyters have that power given unto them neither will the Learned Brethren deny it whatsoever the ignorant may do Yea the very name of a Presbytery as I said before if we look through the whole Scripture signifieth a Magistracy or Signiory or Corporation invested with authority of governing and ruling and such a counsell and company of men as upon whom the government under Christ is laid and to be extended so far as their jurisdiction extendeth and as far as by common consent it may make for the good and edification of the church and for the safety of the same And such was the government of all those churches of the New Testament which were as so many Committees their limits and bounds prefixed them as at this dayall Committees through the Kingdom have in their severall Hundreds Rapes Wapentakes and Cities to whom the ordering and government of those places that are under them are committed so that all that is done or transacted must be done by the joynt consent and councell of the whole Committee not any particular man or any two of them severally considered by themselvs can make an order but that order onely is binding which is made by the joynt consent and common agreement of them all or the greatest part of them assembled together Even so all those particular Congregations that are within the compasse and jurisdiction of the severall Presbyteries are to be ordered and governed by the common and joynt councell of the severall Presbyters or the greater part of them For this was the order the Apostles established appointing in every City a Presbytery and when they had so ordered the Churches they set them all to their severall imployments the Presbyters to command and all the people and particular Assemblies and Congregations under them to obey neither is it ever found in the holy Scriptures that the people were joyned with the Presbyters in their Commission So that they that oppose this government resist Gods Ordinance And if we looke into all the Epistles writ by the Apostles to the severall Churches we shall finde in them That they enjoyne all the severall Congregations to yeeld obedience to their Pastors and Rulers over them and signifie unto them that they owe unto them double honour especially such as labour in the Word and Doctrine that is they must yeeld unto them not onely due reverence and subjection and obedience to their councell and just commands in the
Lord but that they should also afford them the honour of maintenance and take order there be a sufficient and competent yea an honourable allowance for their support and that as they minister to them spirituall food for their soules they should likewise minister unto them all things necessary for the maintenance of them and their Families that they may comfortably and without solicitous care follow their holy imployments and wait upon their severall Ministeries So that the place and imployment of the Presbyters is to teach and rule the people and this is their proper worke and peculiarly belongs unto them and the imployment and place of the severall congregations under them is to hear and obey and therefore if the severall congregations do assume unto themselves the power of ruling they take more upon them then by God is allowed them and the Presbyters in yeilding unto it reject their own right and devest themselves of that authority that God hath put into their hands and by so doing in time may not onely bring confusion into the Church but to all those Countries where such usurpations are tolerated I cannot but speake my conscience in this point And truly very reason dictates unto a man that they only should have the authority of commanding and ruling over the Churches to whom the power of the Keyes is given Now it is given only to the Ministers and Presbyters as we see it in Iohn 20. 21. and Matth. 18. 15 16 17 18. Where our Saviour Christ established a standing government to be continued to the end of the World the violating and the overthrowing of the which was the cause of all those confusions both in doctrine and manners that is now come upon the world and was the cause not only of the rise but the growth of Antichrist And the reducing of it again into the Church and the re stablishing of it will be the confusion of that Man of Sin and of all the Antichristian-brood and be a meanes of establishing truth and peace through the Christian world But it will not be amisse a little to consider that place in Matth. 18. If thy Brother saith Christ shall trespasse against thee go and tell him of it between thee and him alone if he shall heare thee thou shalt gaine thy brother but if he will not heare thee then take with thee one or two more that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established And if he shall neglect to heare them then tell it unto the Church but if he neglect to heare the Church let him be to thee as a Heathen man and a Publican Verily verily I say unto you whatsoever ye shall binde on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven In these words our Saviour Christ has respect unto the order and custome of judicature in those times in censuring mens manners and doctrines which among the Jewes was ordered and administred by an assembly and counsell of learned experienced and judicious men and by a Presbytery Consistory or Colledge of able men for government chose and selected out of the people for this very purpose by such as could judge and discerne of their abilities the which assembly and company is by Christ himself called a Church because it did represent the Church and in this place Christ did establish the like to be continued in the Christian church to the end of the world making his Apostles this representative body and their successors all the godly and holy Ministers and Presbyters and gives unto them the same power and Authority to judge and determine of all things belonging unto faith and manners that was observed in the Jewish church in all Ecclesiasticall Discipline For otherwise the Christian church should be inferior to that of the Jews if they had not the same Priviledges for the censuring of manners and Doctrines and the same power of jurisdiction and ruling that they had Now all power of jurisdiction among the Jews was exercised not by the promiscuous multitude or by the whole congregation nor by any particular man nor by two or three as the place above specifies but by an Assembly Senate Councell or Presbytery of understanding men assigned to that purpose which our Saviour himself calleth a Church this government established in the Christian church are the severall Presbyteries where all things are transacted by common and joynt consent and this was the practise of the Apostles at Ierusalem who did all businesse of publike concernment by common and joynt consent as is manifest in the first chap. of the Acts in chusing of an Apostle in Iudas his place and in the 5. chap. in censuring Annanias and Saphira and in the 6. chap. in chusing Deacons and in the 15. chapter in determining the question there in hand all in a Presbyterian way and by common consent And this is that government that God hath commanded to be perpetuated to the end of the world in these words Whatsoever ye shall binde on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven So that the Presbyters onely have the power of the keyes it is their place only to ordain Ministers and Church Officers whatsoever Authority the people may exercise in the chusing of them as Paul writes unto Timothy and Titus and they onely are to judge and determine and to censure in matters of manners and doctrine and the people are to allow and approve it according to the Word of God Yea the very Synagogues of the Jews which were the same that our churches are were governed by a Presbytery as our brethren acknowledge called by the name of the Rulers of the Synagogue who governed by joynt and common councell as is evident and manifest in that there were superior and inferior Judges Commanders and Rulers according as their yeares gravity and wisdome made them more emninent then others and venerable to the people as may appeare in many places as Acts 18. ver 8. It is said there That Crispus the chiefe Ruler of the Synagogue beleeved with all his houshould So that if there were a chiefe Ruler or Iudge or a President there must of necessity be a Councell or Segniory of inferiour ones that had Rule and Authority over others as well as he and where there is a chiefe Justice or Judge there are other Judges joyned with him as all reason perswades and there must needs be a Court of Judicature where all things are transacted by conjoynt and common consent and agreement and so it was in the Synagogues of the Jewes who were subject to and ordered by the determinations and abitrement of their Rulers and Governours So that the severall Churches or Synagogues under the Jews were in subjection to those Rulers and were governed according as by common councell they ordered And Mat. the 5. vers 22. And behold there came one of
or for want of many things they now exact of all Christians for the compleating and moulding of them into Church bodies pro perly so called for we read That in the Church of Jerusalem they were perfectly converted and were Saints indeed and yet that for some wants they made no separation rent or schisme from their brethren but that they dayly met together in their publick Assemblies as in the Temple and in Solomons Porch and from house to house openly and that in all love and charity with one accord And yet if my brother Burton and the Independents may be beleeved they had neither Deacons nor Elders nor distinction of Officers nor a great part of Discipline nor many other of their requisites So that from the pious and godly example of those glorious Saints I learn this lesson That rents and scismes are not to be made amongst brethren for some failings in any Churches yea though there be some defects not onely in Officers and Members but a very want of Officers themselves and of a good Discipline also in any Church or Churches and that they that do make rents and divisions have a great deal to answer for Withall I learn that it may be a true Church though there be a failing in Discipline and a want of some chiefe Officers and Members For my brother Burton acknowledgeth That the Church at Jerusalem was a formed Church although it wanted both Officers and Discipline and all those things they now require of all such as desire to be made Members in their new Congregations And therefore if this he now preacheth be solid and orthodox Divinity and if he may be credited in what he writeth as there was at that time no just ground of separation from their publike Assemblies for want of those things so there is now in these our dayes no just cause of separation from our Assemblies if there be indeed a reall want of discipline and Church Officers which we might long since have injoyed had not he and his brethren hindred our happy begun Reformation Especially I say we ought not to separate when there is no failing or want in any dominative or fundamentall pointe of Religion necessary to salvation and where all the counsell of God requisite to eternall happinesse is dayly publikely taught in every one of our Congregations and Churches all which the Independents themselves do acknowledge we want not Besides it is granted by all orthodox Divines that Discipline makes not for the esse but the bene esse of a Church Yea the Independents themselves hold That Officers in a Church make not for the esse but the bene esse of it as the New Lights from the Summer Islands apparently delucidate For they say Though the Officers all dye yet the Church ceaseth not to be a church But to return to the matter in hand Whereas my brother Burton affirmeth that the Church at Jerusalem wanted Discipline and that it had not Deacons at first and that the Churches were not brought forth to full perfection in one day and that their very constitution had a graduall growth I maintain that in all he asserteth he is not onely exceeding erroneous and ignorant but understandeth not the very doctrine of the Independents who are all against him in those his assertions for they all acknowledg and in express words affirm it in their writings that all the Officers of the church were virtually in the Apostles saying they were Pastors Teachers ruling Elders and Deacons c. And therefore they wanted neither Deacons nor Elders if their concession be true nor any church Officers which is point blank against my brother Burton his opinion They confesse likewise that all the Apostles and every one of them had the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven that is the power of order and jurisdiction viz the key of knowledg and authority And therefore they had also in the church of Jerusalem that part of Discipline of casting out corrupt Members They acknowledge in like manner that all the Apostles had equall power amongst themselves and that they had authority over all the churches as having the care of all the churches who were committed to their charge and that they left both the Presbyters and people in their several churches to the exercise of all their particular rights impeached neither of them of their liberties And they do also confess that as Paul by his own authority did excommunicate Hymeneus and Alexander 1 Tim. 1. ver 20. and others so might the other Apostles have done if they had had the like occasion given them and might have put any church not only in mind of their duty and reproved them for their neglect of Discipline but have injoyned and commanded them also to have put it in execution as both Paul did the church of Corinth and Saint John the seven churches of Asia which were all well constituted and well and perfect formed churches by their first constitution and brought forth to full perfection in one day so as they had no need of a graduall growth as my brother Burton affirmeth All these things I say the Independents do accord unto And all reason will perswade any well grounded Christians That the church of Corinth was a perfect church at its first constitution before the incestuous person appeared in it and the same they will say of the other seven churches in Asia before the doctrine of the Nicolaiâ—tans and that of Baalam and Jezabell sprung up in them and before those luke-warme Laodiceans appeared and all the other offenders there spake of all the which were so far from adding any perfection to those churches as it was a deformity to them all to have such creatures and failings amongst them and it was reputed their great sinne to connive at them and suffer them to be amongst them and in their bowels which by their first constitution they had power to have cast out For it is well known that all those churches at their first plantation and founding had all of them their Presbyters and Elders and all other Members and Officers as consisting of Saints and had in all those severall churches both the power of order and jurisdiction and the power of the Keyes and this in their first constitution and therefore had no neede of a graduall growth but were all brought forth to full perfection the first day contrary to my brother Burtons doctrine And it is confessed likewise by the Independents and by my brother Burton himselfe That where there are Church Officers as a Pastor and Teacher with an Elder or two and a Deacon and where there are a few visible Saints if they amount but to the number of twenty nay if they be but ten or twelve gathered together according to their method that there is a compleat formed Church where Christ is set up as King upon his Throne and that this Church is clothed with Christs power and honoured with his presence the which
wanted that part of Discipline I beeleeve they would exercise some more of their authority to teach such an one better manners or more wit Even so it was in the Church at Ierusalem they had discipline in that Church though wee reade not of the putting of it in execution as we do in the Church of Corinth and Ephesus neither wil any rationall man conclude that all the other Primitive Churches wanted that part of discipline because I say wee reade onely of the execution of it in the church of Corinth and that of Ephesus which is commended for it and some of the other seven churches are blamed for not casting out their corrupt Members and because they had not at that time exercised their authority neither reade wee of it in the churches of Galatia Colosse nor amongst the Thessalonians nor in the church of Rome nor Antioch nor in Samaria will any man therefore say that all these churches wanted that part of Discipline because wee reade nothing of it in them I am confident they will not be so fanaticall as to make such a conclusion from so brainsick a premise much lesse will any intelligible christian argue as my Brother Burton does saying wee reade not of that part of Discipline in the church at Ierusalem of casting out corrupt Members Ergo it had it not this would indeed prove a non sequitur and such a consequenct or conclusion could least of all have been made from the Church at Ierusalem upon such an Antecedent then from any of the other churches because the church at Ierusalem had not only the power of the Keyes within it selfe but a legislative power also who gave Lawes to all other churches both for the ordering and ruling of them and for the exercising of their Discipline in every particular and that by Gods appointment for out of Sion shall goe forth the Law saith the Prophet Isa 23. and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem So that the Church at Ierusalem the Mother church gave power to all the daughter churches and that both the power of Order and Jurisdiction the power was radically in it and in that church was the fountain of all authority the streames of the which flowed to all the other churches of the world For out of Zion shal go forth the Law and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem And can any rationall man thinke it gave away all its power and did not keepe a reserve donec ad triarios redierit res I beleeve that all the Independents will much blame my brother Burton for this his rashnesse in affirming the church at Ierusalem wanted that part of Discipline for casting out corrupt Members when the Apostles themselves had all power in their hands bequeathed unto them by Christ himselfe who said Mat. 28. verse 18. 19. All power is given to mee in Heaven and Earth goe yee therefore and teach all Nations c. and Iohn the 20. verse 21 22 23. as my Father hath sent mee even so send I you and when hee had said this hee breathed on them and saith unto them receive yee the Holy Ghost whose soever sinnes ye remit they are remitted unto them and whose soever sins yee retaine they are retained Loe here was plenary authority given unto all the Apostles who as they had the Keyes promised them in the sixteenth of Matthew here they now received them and therefore they had the power in their hands both of order and jurisdiction which the Keyes imported as all the learned know and the very Independents doe not deny now this power was not onely given unto them but unto all faithfull Ministers their successors to whom Christ made a promise as well as to the Apostles Matth. 28. that hee would be with them to the end of the world neither doe wee ever reade that the Apostles and Ministers in the church of Ierusalem did ever relinquish their power and therefore they wanted not that part of Discipline as my Brother Burton grollishly affirmeth who begins now to doubt when hee begins to dote but if there had been any just occasion without all controversie they would have put it in execution but that church consisting of visible Saints and having no scandalous persons amongst them had no occasion of the exercise of that part of Discipline which they wanted not though they exercised it not for it is to be believed that the Apostles would have discharged their duty in punishing offendors if there had beene any And I believe that the Independents would blame any of their Schollers and Members if they should say their new congregated churches wanted that part of Discipline of casting out of corrupt Members though they have not as yet in some of them put it in execution for they have learned to distinguish between the power of a Church and the execution of that power in a church for as it doth not argue that a Court of Justice hath not power of life and death when notwithstanding it is invested with the Authority of hanging and drawing though perhaps after it is erected they either have no occasion of executing that authority that is given or them out of Clemency will for a time shew mercy and use lenity towards offendors not taking the extremity of the Law the more with humanity and kindnesse to reclaime them even so in all well constituted Churches the not executing of the power given them by Christ or the not having just occasion of putting that power in execution doth not prove a want of that power and if any of the Members of the new congregations should so argue against their new church Officers I believe they would soone make use of their Keyes to shut such a Member out of their Church doores as my brother Burton falsly complaines that Truth was lately shut out of Aldermanbury Church doores And truly if one of their whibbling congregations have no want of that part of Discipline though they execute it not shall any man be so temerarious and unadvised as to thinke that the power of the church in Ierusalem was evacuated or enervated or that they had not that part of Discipline when there was greater power in it then in any church in the world all who had all the Apostles amongst them and as Christs and Iohn Disciples all of them armed with the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven and when the Magazine and treasury of all power resided continually in that church and therefore that part of Discipline when all other churches derived their power authority and jurisdiction from that as the mother church And to this I now say I am most assured all judicious men will easily consent and agree And therefore my brother Burton affirming that the church at Ierusalem wanted that part of discipline of casting out of corrupt Members saying That neither the Church at Ierusalem was a perfect patterne nor none of the Primitive churches were compleat within themselves but that they must
office of Elders or Presbyters in the 14. chapter where it is said that Paul and Barnabas ordained them Presbyters in every Church and therefore they appointed them first in the mother-Mother-church Jerusalem for out of Zion saith the Prophet shall goe forth the Law and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem yea they gave those Officers their names and invested them all with power to execute their severall Offices as is manifest Acts the 6. and in the 20. of the same booke and in the Epistles of Paul to Timothy and Titus They also had the power of making warre and peace with the Nations and all the Inhabitants of the earth for they preached and published the glad tydings of peace to all such as received the Gospel and denounced warre and death with all manner of judgements to those that obeyed not the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ 2 Thess 1. verse 8. and to the Apostles and Presbyters in Ierusalem likewise as to their ultimate and extreme refuge and reliefe and helpe all appeales were made as we may see in the fifteenth of the Acts and in the 6. and in the 9. and in the 15. of the same booke as to the supreme Tribunall upon earth in Gods matters in whose hands all the highest power and soveraigne authority for Ecclesiasticall matters then resided and whose place it was not only to hear the controversies and differences of greatest concernment in Christs Kingdome his Church but also to decide and determine them and put a finall period unto them the which example of theirs was left as a presiâ—ent of imitation to all succeeding ages for Ministers to doe the like upon the like occasions as in that controversie that arose among the Christians at Antioch through false Teachers by whom that heresie was broched viz. that it was necessary to salvation that the ceremoniall Law should be observed and that Beleevers could not be saved without it by which great scandall was given to the weak lewes who by this meanes were alienated from the beleeving Gentiles because they did neglect those Ceremonies whereupon there arose a great schisme and rent amongst the brethren to the disturbance of the Church of God Now for the deciding and determining of this controversie the Christians of Antioch appeale to the Apostles and Presbyters at Ierusalem as knowing that all power was given unto them both Dogmaticall Diatacticall and Criticall yea authoritative and commanding who entring into a Councell and Synod and there debating the busines by Reason Arguments and Disputation and finding by disquisition of the whole matter what was the good will and pleasure of God what hee had revealed concerning the Gentiles and the New Covenant under the Gospel they determined the whole matter according to the written Word of God not pretending any new Revelation or new light or any extraordinary or superlative assistance in the deciding that debate but only exercised that ordinary soveraigne power in the church of God which God had invested them with and given unto them in his holy Word the rule and square of all Doctrines and not onely unto them but to all his faithfull Ministers his servants to the end of the world and in the deciding of this controversie they first shewed and put forth their dogmaticall power confuting and convincing the heresie and vindicating the truth Secondly they declared their diatacticall authority making a practicall Canon or Law for avoyding of scandall and abstaining from such things as gave occasion of it Thirdly they exercised their criticall power and judiciary authority verse 24. condemning and branding those Teachers with that infamous and blacke marke of Lyers subverters of soules and troublers of the Church Fourth and lastly they sufficiently manifested their imparative and authoritative power in sending those Decrees unto the Churches of the Gentiles with doe this and live v. 29. for so much the words imports all which are acts of soveraigne power and authority in all governments whatsoever as the learned know which when they resided in the Apostles and Presbyters of the Church at Ierusalem and were exercised by them there it is sufficiently manifest that all the power of government likewise remained and resided wholly and solely in the Apostles and Presbyters hands and that they exercised it by joynt consent and the Common-councell of them all for all acts of government ever run in the name of all the Apostles or in the name of the Apostles and Presbyters Lastly they had the disposing of the treasury of that Church in their hands as all the Presbyters of all the other Churches had for they brought the monies alwayes to the Apostles and laid them downe at their feet as it appeareth Act. 4. and afterwards all the monies and almes were sent to the Presbyters through all Churches as in whose hands the soveraigne authority lay which they never gave out of their hands or relinquished but upon all occasions gave directions to their severall Deacons how to distribute them for the good of the church and for the common emolument of the poore Saints for otherwise to what end should the almes and benevolences of the Gentiles be sent unto the Presbyters in the churches in Iudaea if they had not beene the men in authority in those churches and to whom the government of them belonged and who only and wholly had the disposing of them Now then when the contribution and releefe was sent unto the Presbyters of the church in Ierusalem as wel as the other churches it followeth that they and they only had the power and authority in that church which they ever exercised by the joynt consent and common councell and agreement of them all for it was sent unto all the Presbyters in every church and therefore they were in common to dispose of them Now before this reliefe was sent thither and long after that as the story of the Acts declareth most of the Apostles resided there and all the Apostles were Presbyters as the Independents themselves doe acknowledge and the same Scripture that relateth that the almes and reliefe were sent speaking in the plurall number saith they were sent unto the Presbyters now they were all Presbyters and therefore they were sent unto them in common and if wee observe the Dialect of holy writ through the whole story of the Acts wee shall find for the most part if there be any mention made of any act of government that either all the Apostles or some more of them are ever made mention of to be the chiefe Moderators and prime Agents in the busines which was never carried by any one of them or by the multitude or people and it it is credibly beleeved that most of the Apostles resided in Ierusalem or in Judaea till after the Councell and Synod at Ierusalem Act. 15. and for the Apostle Saint Iames it is the opinion of most of the Ecclesiasticall Writers that hee continued President of the Presbytery in Ierusalem his whole life time
and Officers much lesse in Synods that imployment belonging wholly to the Presbyters in each Church whom God had made Rulers in his Church over them and commanded the people to yeeld obedience unto them Heb. 13. and therefore that all the new gathered Churches affecting an Independency and challenging their Votes and suffrage in the Government of their Churches are all transgressors against both precept and example And this shall suffice to have spake in way of Answer to Mr Knollys his vain jangling against my third Proposition And now I will briefly Answer to what Sir I. S. hath to say to it whose words are these pag. 11. In asserting That the Presbyters did rule the Church and ordinarily other Churches whom do you hit saith he sure not the Independents as you call them we grant it is their part to rule but we distinguish saith he between Authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter saith he belongs to the people the other is proper to the Officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church so they i the Officers ordain they excommunicate i pronounce excommunication they lead and direct in all government and disputes they have executative power as you demand pag. 93. but the people have a power and interest too as those places alleadged by your selfe shew expresly Act. 15. for though ver 2. Paul and Barnabas are said to be sent by the Apostles and Elders onely yet ver 4. they are said to be received of the Church and Apostles and Elders therefore they were sent unto the Church also and that word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with one accord ver 25. imports a multitude met together and this to be the result of that multitude else it were no great commendation of the resolution that it was convened and issued forth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And though onely the Apostles and Elders are mentioned as comming together to consider of the question verse 6. yet it is said verse 22. that it pleased not onely the Apostles and Elders but the whole Church also therefore the Church also came together to consult or the Apostles and Elders as a Cnmmittee first prepared the dispute as not counting it so safe perhaps to admit the weake to the same while it was intricate and then reported it and had their assistance and concurrence and the Letters of resolution run in the name of the brethren i. the Church as well as the Apostles and Elders ver 23. and so in Ordination 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i Election by lifting up the hand belongs to the brethren though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. imposition of hands be proper to the Officers where there are officers as in a Church constituted and compleat Thus speaks I. S. in the name of all his brethren in way of answer to my third Proposition the errors of whose expressions should I but only name them all severally they would take up some time and a great deal of paper but should I undertake the ful confutation of them all and discover all the impiety evil and wickedness that lyeth couched in these his words I might make a just volumn and spend some moneths in the imployment for grosser errors my eyes never beheld and such as are more contrary unto the holy Scripture and to the honour and dignity not onely of the Apostles and Presbyters in the Church at Ierusalem and in all Churches but to the very dignity and honour of Christ himselfe the King of his church who the Independents most shamefully disthrone as I shall by and by make appear God assisting me whiles notwithstanding they make the greatest noise of setting him up King in his Church And to speak the truth though the Independents seem to hate Popery their doctrin is Popery it self only the upside of it turn'd down and the reare made the front otherwise there is no great difference between their Tenents but that the Independent doctrine is more shamefully erroneous as will be made evident and more derogatory to the honour and dignity of Christ the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and to the honour and dignity of the Apostles and Presbyters and more tending to confusion and the overthrow of all Government in Church and State all the which assertions that they may be made a little more evidently manifest I will briefly run over and examine some of the passages in this his answer for to discover but halfe the errors of it they would weary the Reader to hear them and to speak but the verity he that shall have to do with such whibling and unlearned fellows as I. S. and Hanserdo Knollys are had need to be a man of intolerable patience But before I begin with him I shall desire the Reader to consider whether I. S. be not guilty of interferring tautology and great confusion crimes he layes to my charge to use some of his own language Page 15. and 16. if not contradiction and be not great of his own sense and a very catechumenos and one that hath as well need of instruction as of refutation for as much as to me it seems unmeet that a man should be polemically exercised before he be positively principled these things I refer to the Readers consideration and now I go to my work In asserting saith I. S. that the Presbyters did rule that church and ordinarily other churches who do you hit Not the Independents as you call them saith he We grant it is their part to rule but we distinguish between avthority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other this latter belongeth to the people the other is proper to the officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church So they i. the officers ordain they excommunicate i. ◠pronounce excommunication they lead and direct in all governments and disputes they have the executive power but the people have a power and interest too c. And in the 12. page In Ordination saith he Election belongs to the brethren but imposition of hands is proper to the officers where there are officers as in a Church constituted and compleat Thus profound I. S. I shall intreat the Reader here to take notice what he grants and what he denyes and how at every turn he juggles First he grants that the Presbyters did rule the Church of Jerusalem and ordinarily other Churches and saith that my Argument hits not the Independents for they as he in the name of them all asserteth grant that it is the Presbyters part to rule So that if he had stayed here there had been some ingenuity in him but with the same breath he blasteth yea bloweth down all that he had formerly set up and that with a windy vain American distinction which he hath borrowed out of some of those monstrous Pamphlets that come from thence called the way and the keyes c. which are fraught with
name of the King or Emperour and for any Magistrate or any Court to issue out any writ warrant mandate or summons in their owne name and by their owne authority makes them fall into a Praemunire and makes them guilty laesae majestatis so that all warrants run in the name of the King or Emperour and whosoever fayleth in this kind as not to command in the Kings or Emperours name doth make himselfe a Delinquent and this if I am not mistaken was one of the charges against the Prelate of Canterbury that hee issued out writs and summons in his owne name or in the name of his Court. Now Christ is the eternall King of his Church that immortall and mighty Potentate in whose name all the Prophets of old â—ssued out all their warrants and mandates speaking ever to the people in the name of the Lord saying thus saith the Lord nothing was done in the name of the Church or in the name of any creature in those dayes and God never changed the stile of issuing out his warrants neither did Christ resigne his regall dignity or put it into the hands of the Church but is still their King and he keepes the same tenure still all through the New Testament as well as through the old commanding that all should be done in the name of God saying Matth. 28 19. Goe ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the Holy Ghost teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you and loe I am with you all even to the end of the world amen By the way take notice the very Apostles themselves were limited what to preach they might not exceed their bounds they must teach nothing but what Christ the King of his â—hurch commanded them but Christ never taught his Apostles or any of his true Ministers to issue out any thing in their owne name for that was the custome of all false Teachers neither did hee ever teach them to issue out any thing in the Churches name or say unto them at at any time what you doe in all Administrations let it be done in the Churches name Christ I say taught nothing of all this that is but the new blasphemous stile of our new gathered churches and of our new church officers who J. S. sayes must exercise their authority Iurisdiction in the name of the church whereas Christ our King and Law-giver as in the place above quoted so in Mark 16. v. 17. In my name saith he they shall cast out Devils c. all in the church was to bee done by all the faithfull Ministers and people of God in Christs name the King of his church And so S. Peter accoring to his Masters command in his Sermon in the 2. of the Acts preaching unto all the people and new converts sayes nothing to them in the name of the Church but in the 38. verse saith Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ c. Hâ—e was a faithfull officer and did nothing in the churches name hee was not acquainted with our new Divinity and in the 3. chapter when hee cured the Creeple verse the 6. In the name of Iesus Christ of Nazareth saith hee rise and walke and so Saint Paul had learned his Lesson well who when hee cast out the spirit of Divination out of the Damosell in the 16. of the Acts verse 18. saith unto it I command thee in the name of Iesus Christ to come out of her and hee came out at the same houre Nothing was done in those dayes in the Churches name but in the name of their King Iesus Christ to omit many other places we have a speciall command in the 3. of the Coloss verse 17. whatsoever you doe saith the Apostle in word or deed doe all in the name of the Lord Iesus giving thankes to God and the Father by him all Christians are bound to doe all in Christ their Kings name Yea the Apostle in the 1 of the Corinth the fifth chapter verse the 3. and 4. teaching the Corinthians and in them all Christians in whose name all acts of Church governemt should be managed and exercised saith I verely as absent in body but present in spirit have judged already that hee that hath done this doed in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ when ye are gathered together and my spirit with the power of our Lord Iesus Christ to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may bee saved in the day of the Lord Iesus Here the Apostle teacheth all Ministers of all Churches that as all beleevers are to be received into the Church in the name of the Lord Iesus their King so when any for their disorderly walking are to be cast out they are to exercise all those acts of government and to cast them out in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ their King hee knew nothing of this new stile that our Independents and learned I. S. publish to the world who in terminis saith that that Authority and Iurisdiction that is proper to the officers is to be exercised in the name of the Church these are his words in the name of all his brethren saying the Officers ordaine and they pronounce excommunication they leade and direct in al government disputes have the executive power but the people have a power and interest too that is in his learning the officers must yet exercise their power and Iurisdiction in the name of the Church so that the Ministers are but the churches servants at pleasure and their executioners This is our American Divinity so that whereas wee are taught by Christ himselfe and all his blessed Apostles to doe all in the Church in the name of Christ our King these our confiding brethren and our Itinerary Ill-dependent Predicants have brought in a new stile of exercising all acts of church government and that not in Christ the Kings name but in the name of the Church and whereas the Church of Jesus Christ is the most absolute Monarchy in the world in the which all things should be done and acted according to his command and in his name they have changed this Monarchy into so many thousand sucking Democrasies or rather so many Anarchies in all the which they transact all things and send out all their Writs Warrants in the name of their severall new Churches and so have dis-throned Christ whom notwithstanding they pretend to set up as King in his Church But whether in this their so dealing with Christ and with his people and subjects they are not more Independently and arrogantly blasphemous then the Pope himselfe or any Prelates that ever the world yet saw I leave it to the saddest thoughts deepest consideration of all such as truly love the Lord Iesus and desire from their soule the glory of his Kingdome and
that hee may be our sole Monarch and eternall King and may perpetually rule in his Church and have all things done in his alone name and according to his owne appointment to the judgement I say of all such cordiall subjects of Iesus Christ and to their seriousest thoughts and censures I leave the consideration of this weighty busines I am confident they will conclude their blasphemy was yet never paralleld by the very Pope himselfe or by any of his shavelings who were never yet so notoriously usurping and iniurious to Christ the King of his Church as to send out their Mandates in their owne name but all things issued out in in nomine domini hence came up the Proverbe when they heard of any thing from the Pope that they usually said in nomine domini incipit omne malum for he always pretended to do al in the name of Christ the King for that stile notwithstanding did that man of sinne ever observe and keepe continually ever setting forth his grolleries in nomine domini whereas our Independent Brethren act all their baggatelly and trifling busines in the name of their severall churches their officers ever saying when they carry or bring any learned Messages one from an other that they come in the name of the churches and what they doe they would have them know they doe it as officers in the name of the church Christs name the King of his church is never so much as heard amongst them in the transacting of their church affaires so that wee may truely say that whatsoever they pretend of setting up Christ as King upon his Throne their practise sheweth the contrary for in the government of all their severall churches they act all not in the name of Christ but in the name of their several churches so that Christ the Kings name is not so much as mentioned amongst them as wee have learned not onely from their daily practise but from I. S. and our American monstrous Divinity To all that I have said for proofe that all the Independents by their doctrine disthrone Christ and set themselves in his place whiles they most of all pretend they set him up upon his Throne I may for a corallary add their new traditions and practises which they impose upon all the Members of their severall new gathered churches as the commandments of God and as the practises of the Saints of old and injoyne them and urge them as the statutes ordinances and decrees of God yea I might here farther shew how they practice contrary unto Christ's the King and Lord of his Church commands For whereas he sending out his Disciples and Apostles setting down the conditions upon which all men should be admitted into the Church which were to repent and beleeve and to bebaptized in token of their beliese and repentance which whosoever should accept of and imbrace they should thereupon be received into Church fellowship the Illdefendents notwithstanding regard not Christs commands but unto it add their own vain traditions for the which they have neither precept nor president in all holy writ nor the practice of any well reformed church and they force men to conforme unto them or else there can be no admission howsoever they offer themselvs to do as much as Christ their King commands them to do And whereas Christ the King of his church layd the Government of it upon the shoulders of none but his Ministers to whom he had given the Keyes the Il-dependents not onely dispense with this law at pleasure but absolutely oppose it for contrary unto this law is their doctrine and practice who teach that the power and interest lies in the people and that is their part and that the Ministers are to exercise their authority and jurisdiction in the churches name and so they spoile the Ministers of their power and invest the people with it and give lawes unto the people of God yea unto the Lawâ—iver Christ himselfe whether all these dealings therefore of the Illdependents with many more paslages of the like nature that might be produced if not worse be not to disthrone Christ when they slight his Laws and prefer their own traditions before the commandments of Christ the King of his church and revile and reproach his servants and officers offering all the indignity that can be committed against men to them all I leave it to the judgement of the wise and godly Again I refer it to the wisdome of any discerning spirit to consider and judge what difference there is between the Sectaries and the Pope and his conclave in this point whenas they both assume all authority to themselves and take it from the Ministers and make them but their executioners Surely they will finde them both equally guilty and both Antichristian in rebelling in all things against Christ For Christ saith to all men that they that despise his Ministers despise him and they that despise and slight Christ in as much as in them lies they disthrone him and therefore when all the Independents dayly practice all the malifices above mentioned and that in a higher manner and strain pretend they what they will of setting up Christ upon his Throne they plainly disthrone him dishonour him which may yet further appear if we consider some of their other passages for it is well known that some of the chiefe pillars in their houses and churches those Atlasses that some of them confide so much in for their strength and so much extoll for the preaching up of Christs Kingdome and for the setting of him up upon his Throne I say some of these as it is well known have upon the Frontispices of their Pamphlets set this title Against Jesu Worship Now although it be praise worthy in any in maintenance of Gods true worship and service to write against all Idolatricall or Superstitious worship of the true God or Jesus yet it is a thing no way beseeming any Christian to write agaist God Worship and Iesu-Worship which are both commanded because that some faile and erre in the manner of the Worship of either God the Father or God the Sonne Yea it would have been thought in any Christian Nation an unsufferable thing to have tolerated the very reading or publishing of any books with such a title and inscription though the matter in them might have been good for no man much lesse a Christian oâ—ght to write against Iesu-Worship no more then he ought to write against God-Worship for Iesus also is God blessed for ever the eternall Son of the eternall Father who hath commanded all his Disciples Iohn 5. To worship the Son as they worship the Father Now then if it be an unsufferable thing to write against God-Worship no lesse intolerable is it in any to write against Iesu-Worship and all such as write such books and all such as allow of them and approve of them and their authors let them pretend what they will of setting up Christ upon
that by this their doctrine they not onely rob Christ the King of his Church of his honour and dignity which I made good before but all the holy Apostles and Presbyters his Ministers and Servants also of their honour power and dignity which the King of his Church the Lord Jesus had invested them with and bestowed upon them all which will clearly appear if we shall again briefly consider and but take notice First what power and authority God gave unto his Apostles and to his Ministers which was the power of the Keyes Matth. 16. and Matth. 18. that is all power in his Church under him Matth. 28. and Mark 16. I say if we shall duly in the first place but consider that all the Apostles Christs speciall Ministers and Servants were by Christ himself invested with all authority and guided in their preaching and writing by his holy spirit so that whatsoever they taught or writ as his Ministers were the dictates of his spirit and the commandments of God and were for ever to be the rule of his Church to all succeeding ages to the end of the World and if we consider also what he promised to his blessed Apostles and all his Servants and Ministers that should succeed them viz. that he would be with them to the end of the World to all which Ministers likewise he had given the keys and made them stewards and overseers of his house which is his Church I say if we but duly weigh all these things we shall finde them all invested with plenary authority and by the very commission of God for ever inabled to exercise all acts of Government in the Church and that by themselves without the assistance and concurrence of the people who were never joyned with them in commission but received commands from heaven to obey those that God had made guides over them and made Rulers in his Church I say if we maturely consider all these immunities and priviledges and the power that the Apostles and Ministers of Christ were indued with and that from Christ the King of his church And on the other side shall but consider what learned I. S. in the name of all the Independents his brethren declareth concerning not onely all the ordinary Ministers of the church but what he delivereth concerning the blessed Apostles we shall clearly perceive that herobbs them all of that honour dignity and power which God hath given them and invests the people with it which is a double injustice First in taking from the Apostles and Ministers that which was their due and which God had bestowed upon them And secondly in giving unto the people that which pertained not to them and to which they had no right nor could lay no claime and with which they were not to meddle But take notice of his Doctrine what hee holds and beleeves concerning the ordinary Ministers page 12. In ordination saith hee election belongeth unto the brethren Jmposition of hands is proper to the Officers where there are Officers as in a Church constituted and compleate otherwise if the Church be not compleate according to his learning the people may doe it Thus I. S. speaks there and in the 11 page hee grants it is the Presbyters part to rule But as soone as hee hath spake the word as if hee repented of what he had said hee comes in with a but saying but wee distinguish betweene Authority and Iurisdiction on the one hand and Power and Jnterest on the other this latter belongs unto the people the other is proper unto the Officers which yet they exercise in the name of the Church The Officers saith hee ordaine they excommunicate they leade and direct in all government and disputes they have the executive power but the people have a power and interest too that is in his dialect as hee declared himselfe in the words going before the Officers must exercise all their authority and jurisdiction in the name of the Church and must doe as the people shall direct them for their power is onely the executive power they are onely the executioners of the church they can neither elect any officers nor excommunicate any without they have the leave and good liking from the people for the radicall and originall power lyes in the people and church which if it be not utterly to overthrow the authority of the Ministers and to make them nothing but cyphers in the Church and most sacrilegiously to rob them of that power Christ the King of his Church hath given them and to arrogate it and assume it unto themselves and whether this be not the greatest wickednesse and injustice in the Independents that can be committed against men I leave it to the consideration and judgement of all conscientious and learned men and whether such temerarious and bold impudent theives and Church-robbers ought not with greatest severity and justice to be proceeded against for this their malefice and unsufferable wickednesse who doe not onely take from the Ministers of Iesus Christ whom they ought ever to have in great reverence for their workes sake 1 Thess 5. that honour power and authority Christ hath given them but labour likewise now with all their might to take from them also that that God hath put into the hearts of men his servants to give them viz. their tythes and lively-hood and all that by which they should support themselves and their poore Families which is as intolerable an in justice and ingratitude both towards God and men as can by mortall creatures bee committed which wickednesse of the Independents and Sectaries if the Magistrates shall suffer to goe unpunished I most confidently beleeve that the Lord and King of his Church the Lord of heaven and earth will take the quarrell of his righteousservants into his hand and will poure downe his plagues both on them and all their complices and abettors And now I have made it evident how they rob all the ordinary Ministers and Presbyters of the Gospel of their due honour and power I will make it likewise appeare that the Apostles also are by their doctrine in the same predicament and that they deale no better with them whom they have robbed also and spoyled of their honour power and authority and count of them all no otherwise then of ordinary and common Ministers and but as of a company of Executioners for wee must take what I. S. speakes in this busines to be uttered in the name of all the Independents for hee is but their mouth and his booke came forth by the authority and approbation of them all and was esteemed of as a goodly peece and he highly honoured amongst them for it His words are these page 12. The Apostles and Elders saith he as a Committee first prepared the dispute as not counting it so safe perhaps to admit the weake to the same whiles it was intricate and then reported it and had their assistance and concurrence and the Letters of resolution
him may also truly be said of Cretensis and all those of that fraternity whose words are swords and spears who all fight rather with their heels then with their heads and kick rather then argue and whip rather then answer Whether therfore such men as my brother Burton and his complices though they come to us in gray heads be found in the way of righteousnesse when their dealings are so palpably unjust and their opinions so schismaticall hereticall and erroneous I leave it to the judgement of all such as know what the way of righteousnesse is And now I come to my second quaerie viz. Whether the way of Independency be the way of righteousnesse My brother Burton writing in the name of all the Independents pretends unto the people and would make the world beleeve that they are all Dependent upon Gods Word for all their proceedings and affirmes moreover in the fifth page that all their new gathered Churches and severall Congregations are all Dependent one upon another both which assertions of his are most false as will evidently appear to all those that know their practices and will vouchsafe but to read the insuing discourse where they shall find that they have neither precept nor president for their way of Independency in all Gods holy Word and that there is not so much as one example in all the sacred Scriptures for any of their new practices wherein they differ from us and which is more that they all of them withhold the truth from the people in unrighteousnesse How then can the way of Independency bee the way of righteousnesse when it is a deviation from that way as by their practices will be evidenced therefore for the confirmation of what I have now said I will briefly examine some of their proceedings and first whereas my brother Burton affirmeth that all their Churches are Dependent one upon another This I say is most false For all their proceedings in their severall congregations are carryed on in an arbitrary way whatsoever they publish in their writings and pretend to the people as all the learned and those that are acquainted with their method well know So that it lies in any one of their Churches breasts and is at their pleasure whether they will so much as confer or consult with each other and if they do at any time vouchsafe one another that courtesie yet it is stil voluntary whether they will give each other an account of either their censures or proceedings for they all pretend as absolute a soveraignty and jurisdiction within themselvs severally as any free-states or common-wealths have no authority one over another neither can they appeal for any reliefe if wronged one to or from another And if any Member in any one of those Churches or any one of those Churches divided amongst themselvs or upon some eminent received wrong should fondly complain to another neighbour Church that Church hath no power to relieve them no more then one private man can relieve another if he should be appealed to by another And if that Church should desire an account of the other Churches proceedings that Church may refuse it if it please them But if to gratifie their desire that Church should vouchsafe to condescend so far unto the other Church as to give them a reason of their proceedings all this is but gratis and out of their good nature they have still no power to call that Church in question that hath done the wrong if that Church stands upon its points and priviledges and saith that they have nothing to do with them And what then is to be done in this case Then forsooth they will withdraw communion from that Church which say they is the highest censure any one Church can proceed to against another Church Is not this I pray fine Dependency What more unrighteous dealing can be found in the world then this of the Independents to professe themselves Independents and yet to pretend a Dependency And when that comes to the tryall they have no more reall Dependency one upon another then we have with them Yea what a great unrighteousnesse is this to pretend a Dependency one upon another and a communion amongst their new gathered Churches when it is well known there is no more union and communion nor true friendship amongst them then was between Herod and Pilate they refusing the right hand of fellowship each to other in many of them Yea they are deadly enemies one to another as can sufficiently be proved although they all agree together to persecute the Presbyterians as Herod and Pilate did well accord to persecute Christ For I my selfe have heard the Independents protest against the Brownists Anabaptists Antinomians and Seekers and many other of the new fraternities proclaming them all Sectaries And on the other side I have heard those severall societies rail against all the Independents especially those Homothumadon dissenting brethren in the reverend Assembly saying that they had a better and a more charitable esteem of any of the Presbyterian Ministers then of them and they do unanimously accuse all the Ministers of New-England of as great tyranny as the Prelates And it is well known that many of the Independent congregations here amongst us have their different laws and customs every one of them dissenting more or lesse from each other in their severall new gathered Churches yea they are ignorant of each others practices For my Brother Burton and I. S. know not that the women in some of their congregations have their voices there and yet it can be proved that they also have Peters keyes at their girdles as well as any of their Presbyters And therefore their new Churches are not Dependent one upon another as my brother Burton asserteth Page the fifth when as they all of them exercise an absolute soveraignty amongst themselves Independent What unrighteousnesse then is this in my brother Burton and in all the Independents to affirme that in all their Churches there is a Dependent Independency or an Independent Dependency which is but a contradictory bull at best at the baiting whereof a man if he regarded not mispending his time might make far better sport then he did some years since in baiting the Popes Bull. The truth is as their Religion is but a meer Babell so all their language is confounded and they are divided in their opinions principles and practices they being all really Independent And therefore whether the way of Independency be the way of righteousnesse where they are so unrighteous in all their proceedings and when they say one thing and do and practice another and when they withhold the truth from the people in unrighteousnesse as all the Independent Predicants do I refer it to the wisdome and judgement of the godly and consciencious Reader But the unrighteousnesse of their way will yet more perspicuously appear if we but look into some other of their practices which I shall by and by instance the very
they allow of that doctrine proclaming themselves to be the only Saints the holy people and the godly party the generation of the just and separate from their brethren as impure creatures Therefore the Independents do not walk in that old way of righteousnesse the old Puritans of ENGLAND walked in who made no separation in the worst times from the publike Assemblies or ever refused to pray with their Christian brethren and therefore in this point they have not outstripped them nor overgrown them from which I boldly conclude that herein that Predicant did abuse the world in saying that there is no difference between the Independents and the old Puritants of ENGLAND For the old Puritans were humble self denying men and the Independents are pharisaicall boasters of their own holinesse and sanctity and therefore in this their way is not the way of righteousnesse but a great aberration from it Again the old Puritans of England though never so learned and never so sufficiently furnished with all accomplished abilities of divine knowledge which many of them by their indefatigable pains study and industry and by their prayers unto God night and day and by their continuall waiting upon the Ordinances and Gods blessing upon all their endeavours had attained unto so that they were taken notice of by all men both in the Universities and amongst all the learned to be incomparable men many of the which I could name yet not any one of them ever preached either in publike or private without great study and prayer yea and without a speciall call and they alwayes with Saint Paul exercised their Ministery in fear and much trembling 1 Cor. 2. ver 3. saying with him 2 Cor. 2. 16. Who is sufficient for these things Those holy and godly Puritans though transcendently learned yet were always conversant in all holy duties especially in preaching and prayer with fear and trembling thinking themselves never sufficiently enough provided for for those duties And truly Saint Paul's example is worthy alwaies to be looked upon who though he were immediately inspired by God himselfe and had alwayes the assistance of his spirit and ten thousand times more learning then all the Independents put together yet he preached alwayes with fear and trembling and cryed out who is sufficient for these things Now if we compare the Independents and their Predicants with the old Puritans of England we shall find the old Puritans alwaies and in all things imitating the example of holy Paul and the other Apostles in their Ministery which they had a command to follow Phil. 3. ver 17. who intruded not themselves rashly upon the Ministery as the false Apostles and Seducers usually did and as all the Independents and Sectaries daily do they cryed out who is sufficient for these things and how can any preach except he be sent Rom. 10. saying No man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God as Aaron Hebr. 2. 4. Those old Puritans were all men of Saint Paul's spirit they durst do nothing without a call nothing without great study nothing without their parchments and books imitating Saint Paul in this who would alwaies have his parchments with him that is his books bring me my parchments saith he they preached not without fear and trembling this was the continuall practice of the old Puritans they could never be seen in a Pulpit before they had some dayes prepared themselves by prayer and study and yet after all this they would then cry out Who is sufficient for these things Whereas all the Independents and Sectaries assert that every man may preach and every man of them is sufficient and many also hold that women may preach yea and to manifest that they are all sufficient for these things and for the dispensing of the great mysteries of Heaven which the very Angels desired to pry into they run through Town and Country and wheresoever they come get up into the Pulpits and preach with such impudencie impiety and blasphemy as it is not lawfull to name their very doctrines being so destructive to all piety goodnesse and good manners and Ruffian like they go in their hair and apparrel and so insolent and proud they are that one would rather take them for Luciferians then Saints and such unbeseeming expressions they have in their prayers to God as would terrifie a truly consciencious and godly man to hear them as not long since one of them in London publickly speaking unto God in his prayer said Right Honorable Lord God which kind of expressions as they are blasphemous so ridiculous exposing Religion and the sacred Ordinances of God to ludibry and derision But yet this is the dayly practice of the Sectaries through the Kingdome far different from that of the old Puritans of England and therefore in this point of fear and reverence and of an holy awe of Gods divine Majestie and a reverend adoring of the ministery and mystery of the Gospell the way of the Independents is not that either of the holy Apostles or of the old Puritans there being as vast a difference between them as between light and darknesse and therefore the way of Independency in this particular also is not the way of righteousnesse but the way of rebellion and impudency Againe the old Puritans of England had all of them a reverend opinion of all in authority and did ever beleeve that there was no power but of God and that all powers were ordained of God Rom. 13. and they beleeved that every soule ought to be subject to the higher power and that whosoever resisted the power resisted the Ordinance of God and for that their Rebellion they should receive to themselves damnation and they ever believed that every soule ought to be subject unto authority not onely for wrath but also for conscience sake this was the Doctrine of the old Puritans of England and their practice in yeelding continuall obedience to them and praying for them is knowne to all men yea they did acknowledge that as all power was given unto Jesus Christ in Heaven and Earth Matth. 28. Psal 2. so they did beleeve that all power in Church and State was derived from him as the head of all Principalitie and power who had said Prov. 8. 15. 16. By me Kings raigne and Princes decree justice by me Princes rule and Nobles yea all the Iudges of the earth c. this doctrine the old Puritans of England had learned and taught and were obedient unto as having precept upon precept for it as from the words above quoted out of the thirteenth of the Romans so out of 1. Pet. chap. 2. verse 13 14. who said submit your selves to every Ordinance of man for the Lords sake whether it be to the King as supreme or unto Governors as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evill Doers and for the prayse of them that doe well for so is the wâ—ll of God that with well doing yet may
Presbyterian Brethren and of that great familiarity they have with Christ and what transcendent knowledge they have received from the mind and bosome of the Father it will not be amisse here to recite some passages of that seraphicall Doctors Sermons he preacheth in the Army I will take them out of the booke called the Vindication of certain Citizens where page 9. they set downe certaine points of doctrine that Saint Dell taught in the Army in their hearing viz. 1. That there are no more of a Church of God in a Kingdome then there be such as have the Spirit of God in that Kingdome 2. Neither Old nor New Testament doe hold forth a whole nation to be a Church 3. Whatsoever a State an Assembly or Councell shall say ought not to bind the Saints further then the judgement of those Saints shall leade them 4. The Saints are those that are now stiled Anabaptists Familists Antinomians Independents Sectaries and the like 5. The power is in you the people keepe it part not with it 6. The first party that arose against you namely the prophane ones of the Land are already fallen under you and now there is an other party Formalists and carnall Gospellers rising up against you but I am confident they shall all fall under you 7. They are willing to become subjects to make the Saints slaves nay they are all willing to become slaves themselves that they may tread upon the necks of the Saints These points of sublimated doctrine I find set forth publickly and published by authority as delivered by Saint Dell in one of his sermons at the Army which I had not put in to this my Epistle to the Reader had I not some dayes after the publication of them inquired whether Saint Dell had answered to this accusation against him and understanding that he had replyed nothing to it which he might have done in two houres if he had beene innocent and not guilty I tooke it pro confesso knowing that the Presses are open for all mens just Apologies and defence especially when I find them open to all wicked and impious Pamphlets and this as not all that made me beleeve the charge is true against him but because I have heard and that from men of reputation and worthy of beliefe that it is ordinary with him and his complices to preach such doctrines as these are publickly and privately and to maintaine them wheresoever he comes all the which I shall ever be able God assisting me to prove he never had nor received from the mind and bosome of God the Father nor from Jesus Christ though he boasts much of the Familiarity he hath with Jesus Christ If this be the knowledge the Sectaries vaunt so much of and if these be the things they pretend they have received from the mind and bosome of the Father I must confesse in these their notions they out-strip the knowledge of the Saints of old and of all the holy Prophets and Apostles and of the old Puritans of England who were ignorant of them all which was a learned ignorance in them knowing that God the Father taught a far different doctrine to his people as I shewed a little before and shall more fully declare in the insuing Discourse But this I will againe and againe assert that neither the old Puritans of England nor our godly Presbyterians now are inferiour to any of the Sectaries for an holy and conscionable outward walking in all manner of conversation or in the knowledge of God or of Jesus Christ or in any kind of knowledge that may truly be called learning or science whatsoever the Independents and Sectaries may glory and boast of themselvs I do farther assert that al the godly Presbyters in the church of England do preach Jesus Christ faith repentance and free grace and that in every Congregation upon all occasions more orthodoxly solidly sincerely and learnedly with all practicall divinity then ever any of the Sectaries did or can doe and therefore they do not know more of God then the Presbyterians doe as that Homothumadon Brother pharisaically and falsely gloried and all the Sectaries with him vaunt So that I see no reason why wee may not here make use of the Apostle Saint Pauls words concerning this busines who in the second of the Cor. 10. v. 7. 12. 18. Doe you looke on things after the outward appearance saith he if any man trusts to himselfe that hee is Christ's let him of himselfe thinke this againe that as he is Christ's even so are wee Christ's For we doe not make our selves of the number or compare our selves with some that commend themselvs but they measuring themselves by themselves and comparing themselves amongst themselves are not wise or understand not for not he that commendeth himselfe is approved but whom the Lord commendeth So that it seemes by Saint Pauls words not only in this Epistle but in others that the false Apostles and Seducers of his time had some high esteeme of themselves and of their own holinesse knowledge and abilities above others yea above the Apostles themselves as the Independents and Sectaries of our times have of their great piety and sufficiencie above their brethren as all their words Pamphlets and Vindications daily witnesse in which they slight all that oppose their novelties and stile them vaine men and such as neither know what to say norhow to hold their peace vilifying them all as the off-scouring and things of nought which practice of theirs when it was blamed in the false Apostles as sinfull it cannot be prayse-worthy in the Sectaries now in our times who walke in that way of unrighteousnesse those false Teachers then did and contrary to that rule prescribed by God which is to preferre others before themselves in honour which way the old Puritans of England walked in and not in the way of the false Apostles and the Sectaries of our times for they kept the road way and the royall way of righteousnesse esteeming of their brethren better then of themselves But the world was never without such a sort of men for Solomon speaks of the like There is a generation of men saith hee and how lofty are their eyes and their eye-lids lifted up and of such creatures Saint Paul speaks 2 Cor. 11 ver 22 which made him compare himselfe with them after this maner are they Hebrewes saith he so am I are they Israelites so am I are they the seed of Abraham so am I are they the Ministers of Christ I speake saith he as a foole I am more c. Thus the holy Apostle laughs at these seducers and vaine boasters and to make them more ashamed he compares himselfe with them not fearing to be counted a Jeerer and scorner of piety and religion though hee made himselfe merry with them whom he knew very well for all the shewes they made of being the Ministers of righteousnesse that they were a company of Impostors and therefore
in the Church of Jerusalem and yet all these as the Holy Scripture asserteth in many places made all but one Church and the Independents themselves acknowledge there was but one Church in Jerusalem Now how in any ordinary mans understanding can many congregations be one politicall ministeriall Church except only because they are united and associated under one Presbyteriall government that is to say under the government of a whole colledg of Presbyters which the Church of Ierusalem was for there was many Presbyters there as this 21. ch testifieth and the 15. chap. and many other places of holy writ all which had the government over that Church committed to them in common So that it may be a wonder to all rationall men that there should any appear in the world notwithstanding the abundant evidence out of the holy Word of God that should yet assert there were no more beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem then could all meet in one Congregation which assertion of theirs besides the Scripture very common reason overthrows for if we consider Jerusalem it is said to be the city of the great King in which there were never lesse then seven or eight hundred thousand inhabitants who dayly expected the Messiah who it is well known when he came had twelve Apostles and seventy Disciples at his command to go and come at pleasure whose powerfull preaching was such that it is related that Satan was seen fall down like iightning from heaven that is to say whose Kingdome was overthrown by their ministery and by all whose efficacious preaching and miracles we have this testimony that at one of their Miracles and Sermons there were three thousand converted at one time besides dayly additions added unto that Church by the Lord and five thousand men besides women at another and multitudes of beleevers both of men and women at another and that there was dayly increase of beleevers upon increase with a multitude of Priests besides a whole colledge of Presbyters settled Ministers amongst them and that all these should yet prevail to convert no more in future time then could all meet in one Congregation it seems a thing very incredible and truly for any to persevere in this error against all reason and against the evident testimonies of holy Scripture where we have it recorded there were many ten thousands of very weak beleevers in that one Church besides the strong it is an open and wilfull fighting against God and a resisting of his spirit which is a fearfull sin for all these are convincing arguments to prove the numberlesse multitudes and congregations of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem And all thâ—s brigade of arguments militate against the whole Army of the Homothumadon Sectaries and shall I hope for ever serve to vanquish them all and to make good this field of truth That there were many Congregations and Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem and yet they were not every one a Church or Churches severally considered by themselves exercising an absolute soveraignty Independent within themselves respectively as all our new gathered Churches do now here in London but all those congregations in Jerusalem were all subordinate and being combined together made all of them but one Church and were all under a common Counsell or Colledg of Presbyters within that Precinct the example of which Mother-Church is left upon record to all posterity for imitation and therefore that tenent of the Homothumadon Independents concerning the congregationall way hath no ground for it in the whole Word of God but is a meer whimsy of their own brain and hath its foundation only in the aire and will soon vanish or be speedily blown away by the blast and breath of truth Now my other companies drawn out of the Apostles quarters after Christs death and ascension they militate against all the Burtonian Independents who acknowledge that there were many Assemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem but deny they were Churches properly so called now though by their grant they have lost the day as in the following skirmishes will appear yet that all men may see that this sconse of error to which they have betaken themselves cannot defend their cause I shall with one company at this time beat them out of that hold and fully vanquish them in the pitcht field It is recorded Act. 2. v. 42. of all those new converts which were in many assemblies in many houses that they continued stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers This very troop alone serves for the beating of them all out of what bulwark soever they can betake themselves to for shelter for if all these congregations and Assemblies of believers were equall in all priviledges and immunities with any Churches that ever were on earth and had in them severally whatsoever did make the whole Church of Ierusalem the first formed Church then they were all and every one of them Churches properly so called But the antecedent is true Ergo the consequent so that to any rationall man this question is also out of controversie for let any man but duly examine what it was in the whole church of Jerusalem that made it the first formed church and a church properly so called and he shall find the same in every one of those particular congregations and assemblies for the making of them churches properly so called so that thâ—y each of them severally may as truly challenge the name of Church as the whole Church can they communicating in whatsoever is essentiall for the making of any church a compleat church or a church properly so called if partaking in all Ordinances by lawfull Ministers can make any assembly or congregation a church properly so called So that by this one company and by this very argument all the whibling reserves of all the Burtonian Independents are dissipated and scattered and that place of truth maintained against them all viz. that every one of those Assemblies in Jerusalem were churches properly so called and yet all of them made up but one intire Church and they were not every of them severally considered by themselves and apart Independent and exercising an absolute soveraignty within themselves And therefore this truth shall for ever stand good against all sorts of Independents That many congregations combined together and subordinate to some one colledg of Presbyters make all of them within their precincts but one entire Church and that this is Gods Ordinance and not that tenent of the congregationall way which hath neither precept or president for it in all Gods holy Word So that by all these encounters and frequent skirmishes and by the mighty power and assistance of the great Lord of Hostes the Generall of all the Armies of heaven and earth I have vanquished all the forces both of the Homothumadon Independents and all the Burtonian Sectaries and maintained and kept not onely the field of truth but these
two sconses and bulwarks of the same viz. The first that there were many congregations and assemblies of believers in the church of Jerusalem The second that all those severall congregations and assemblies were churches properly so called which when it comes to the main battell will be fully made good and withall it will be maintained that all those severall congregations made all of them but one Church and were all of them combined together and subordinate to one Presbytery that is to a Colledg of Presbyters who by Gods own appointment had the rule over them committed to them in common by all which the doctrine of the Congregationall way is utterly overthrown whose tenent and opinion it is that every Congregation of beleevers be it greater or smaller ought to be a distinct Church or body by it self exercising all Church power and authority within it self Independent and ought not to have reference or relation to any other church or congregation for matter of government no farther then pleaseth themselves and this they affirme to be Gods Ordinance and Constitution whereas in the Church at Ierusalem the Mother-church there were innumerable Congregations and Assemblies of beleevers and yet all of them made up but one Church For those severall congregations as the Burtonian Independents do affirme were but branches of that one entire Church these are their words By all which it now appeareth that it is Gods Ordinance and his Appointment that many congregations combined together in any city or vicinity within some Precinct should all of them within that jurisdiction make up but one Church and be under a Colledg of Presbyters to be governed by them in common which is indeed a meer ecclesiasticall Corporation and therefore this kind of government might without any offence or diviation from the holy Word of God be compared by me to any civill Corporation as that of London or the like For though I. S. and my brother Burton spend much time and many words to no purpose about my simile yet it will stand for ever immoveable and serve to all intelligible Christians for that very end I propound it viz. to declare the state of the question yea by I. S. his own words pag the fourth of his Pamphlet it is authorized for he there after much babble thus expresseth himself concerning this point when saith he we know the true nature of spirituall things of the devices of God as I may call them we may find a resemblance of them in things here below which are made after them but we cannot fetch the knowledg of heavenly composures from these earthly things Thus J. S. speaks there So that I having from the holy Word of God and from the constitution of the Church at Jerusalem the first true formed Church and originall Church found out the true nature of that spirituall and ecclesiasticall government that heavenly composure and that device of God as he grollishly calleth it it was then no sin in me in I. S. his opinion to find a resemblance of it in things below And therefore both he himselfe and my brother Burton might have saved all that labour they needlesly spent about that simile which will ever stand good against whatsoever they shall be able to say against it for the elucidating and cleering of the point of difference between the Presbyterians and the Independents which was the onely end I made use of it for and there fore all the pudder they made about that simile was but to beat the aire and to vent their own vanity But from all this dispute that I may now speak something concerning Nationall Churches which the Independents deny I farther gather That if many hundred Congregations being combined together under one Presbytery in any great City or Vicinity within any large Jurisdiction may all of them make up but one Church within that Precinct and may take its name or denomination from the City or place in which it is I see no reason why a thousand Parishes yea ten thousand all of them imbracing the Gospell and making profession of the true Christian Religion in what Kingdome Nation Province Country or Commonwealth soever they be may not all of them in those severall Countries being all of them combined together and under some grand Presbyteries take their severall names and denominations either from those respective nations or languages and be called either the Greek Church or the Hebrew Church or the Latin Church or the French Church or the Dutch Church c. or be called the Church of England Scotland Ireland or or such a Provinciall Church or such a Nationall Church I say I see no reason why if all those severall Nations coming in at the sound of the Gospel and all of them giving up their names to the profession of the Christian faith may not as well from those severall Nations take the name of the Church from the Nation as they may take it from Jerusalem or from any other City as that of Corinth Ephesus c. and so become Nationall churches I desire therefore any man to give me a good and solid reason to the contrary for this I am sure of that it was promised unto Abraham that he should be a Father of many Nations which he was not in respect of his naturall posterity for he was onely in that regard a Father of the Hebrews who challenged Abraham to be their Father and therefore it must necessarily be in respect of their faith and spirituall parentage in that they are all of them his children in regard of their common faith and beleif in the Messiah whose day Abraham by faith saw and rejoyced in it which all the Nations of beleevers do and therefore they likewise in that respect are called the children sons and daughters of Abraham and may therefore be truly called Nationall Churches which all the Independents with my brother Burton and I. S. deny for Christ is called the light of the Gentiles yea there are many glorious promises concerning the calling of the Nations and Gentiles as that in Isaiah 19. ver 23 24. where it is said In that day shall there be a highway out of Aegypt to Assyria and the Assyrian shall come into Aegypt and the Aegyptian into Assyria and the Aegyptians shall serve with the Assyrians In that day shall Israel be the third with Aegypt and with Assyria even a blessing in the midst of the Land Here all these three Nations are called three sister Churches if we mark the coherence And for farther proof of Nationall Churches under the Gospell it is said Isaiah 55. 5. Thou shalt call a Nation which thou knowest not and Nations which knew not thee shall run unto thee which words are spake of Christ under the Gospell in the which is set down both Gods Call of a Nation and the Nations Answer to that Call and there can be no more required to make a Church And it is prophecyed of Gospell times Psal 22. 27.
Councell and the people were to make a new choyse For my own particular I will speake my conscience in this point and leave it to the judgement of all intelligible and wise men such as love their Religion and Countrey I see no reason that any Sectary whatsoever whether Independent Antinomian Anabaptist Seeker c. or any Fugitives that have ran over into Holland or New-England to set up new Churches there should be suffered to sit in the Great Councill of the Kingdome which without doubt will with al their ability and power labour to maintaine their severall factions all which tend to the ruineâ—of this State and Kingdom and to the destruction of all our liberties and therefore I conceive they are as dangerous as ever the Papists were yea the tenents of many of them are more destructive to all Government then ever those of the Iesuits were or the most inveterate Papist that ever yet put pen to paper and if the Papists were not suffered to sit in Parliament I shall ever beleeve it will not consist with the safety of the Land that any Sectary what ever should sit in the great Councell especially it being daily perceived that all the Sectaries through the land have their incouragement from some of them to doe mischiefe every where but if the people through the Kingdom will not humbly perition the Parliament that all such with all Minors and Novices should be put out of the Parliament it being proclamed by God himselfe as a curse to that people who have children for their Princes Isa 3. whether they be children in respect of years or discretion then it is a sad presage of that kingdoms and countries ruin where the people are not only divided amongst themselves but their councels also which they are through the whole land in all their Committees by reason of these Sectaries and Independents on all sides who are the only fomenters of factions and divisions and by this meanes have got all the wealth and riches of the Land into their own hands with most of the strength with the ruine and miseries of many The Lord open the eyes of all the people that they may timely see into their danger and petition the Great Councell that all the Sectaries may be removed out ofall offices and Committees and places of trust through the Kingdome But if any of them shall brag of any service done for the State it is well knowne they were not the only Actors in that imployment but ten to one better Christians then themselves did the worke though they have got all the honour from them and have beene ever well paid for it when the other wanted their monies and therefore they having bin so well regarded already above others they may hold their peace and be latisfied for it is well knowne that not one of a thousand of them before the warres begun was worth any thing yet now they are knowne to be very rich and wealthy when such as were borne to great estates and were as serviceable to the Parliament and faithfuller to it with fewer selfe ends then they have beene are many of them destitute of Livelyhood and many more of them by the calumnies and lyes of the Independents and Sectaries are now in disgrace and all their service is forgotten all the which things besides the dangerousnesse of these mens Doctrines should teach all men to avoid and shun both their teachings and teachers and complices and abetters This I thought fit out of my love to my countrey and out of my desire of all mens salvation to speake If my words shall find any esteeme or any shall for sake the errors of their new wayes by seeing the truth I shall rejoyce and count my selfe happy but if men resolve to persist in their erroneous opinions and by-paths of ignorance I will say with the Apostle 1 Cor. 14. 38. He that is ignorant let him be ignorant still THE Vtter Routing of the whole Army of all the INDEPENDENTS and Sectaries with the totall overthrow of their Hirarchy that new Babell more groundlesse than that of the Prelates THe Apostle Saint Paul in the fourth of the Ephesians exhorting all Christians to walk worthy of the Vocation whereunto they were called and to behave themselves as beseemed Brethren wisheth them with all lowlinesse and meeknesse with long suffering and patience to bear one with another in love And useth a forceable Argument to move them to brotherly kindnesse Because saith he there is but one body and one spirit and one hope of Salvation We all worship one God we are all consecrated to him with one Baptisme and we all hope for one and the self-same glory Therefore as there is but one Lord one faith one Baptisme so be yee also of one minde live in love and keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace If ever there was need of this exhortation there is now singular use of it especially in this distracted Nation wherein we live For the division of a Kingdom is the ruine of it the division of a family destroys it the division between brethren brings a confusion amongst them It hath ever bin observed That diversity of judgment opinion hath made a difference in affection The difference between the Iews and the Samaritans in points of Religion made the Disciples desire That fire might come down from heaven to end that controversie The difference between us and the Papists and the diversity of opinions between us made them because they could not bring down fire from heaven fetch it out of hell to blow up the Parliament and because that had not the desired effect and the diversity of opinion stil remaining makes the difference of their affection from us so great that nothing can expiate their indignation against us but the utter internetion and destruction of us all and this and this only next unto our own sins is the cause of all those fatall calamities this miserable kingdome is now imbroyled with And therefore all care and diligence among brethren should be used to get a right understanding one of another and to move them to bear one with another and ever to call to minde the saying of Abraham to Lot Gen. 13. Let not us contend together for we are brethren I am most assured if there were a right understanding of the differences that are now among brethren there could not be such bitter expressions one against another and such alienation of affection as is now too frequent and too well known to the common enemy We are commanded If it be possible as much as lies in us to be in in peace with all men Rom. 12. 18. And the fruits of discord are set down in the 5 th of the Galathians verse 15. If saith the Apostle ye bite and devoure one another take heede yee be not consumed one with another and in the 20. verse Hatred saith the Apostle varience emulation strife heresies c. and
envyings are of the flesh and they that do such things shall not enter into the Kingdome of God A double misery follows those that do these things misery here and misery hereafter it excludes men out of heaven The contemplation of the sad condition that will inevitably come upon that Land Kingdome and Church where those variances and heart-burnings are and where there is such diversity of opinions and by reason of them such difference in affection put me chiefely upon this imployment to see and try if by any possible meanes I could by shewing wherein the difference between the brethren lyeth be an instrument of a good accord amongst them resolving with my self by Gods assistance whatsoever others do to observe to the uttermost of my abilities the royall Law Jan. 2. 8. I do conceive that if there were a right understanding one of anothers opinions the world would wonder there should be such invectives in every pamphlet one against another and such varience among those that are joyned together and that with nighest relations The truth is the mis-understanding of each others opinions and the mis-prisian of each others intentions is the onely cause of this diversity of affection which to the dishonour of God and of our holy profession and indeed to the disgrace of Christian Religion every where too much venteth it selfe And therefore as Abraham said unto Lot so say I to all those that love the truth in sincerity and wish the Peace of Zion Let not us contend especially with evill language for we are brethren we have one father we worship one God we have one light one truth one way And this I professe to all the world That I contend not for victory but for that ancient light the faith once delivered unto the Saints Iude 3. For that truth which we have heard from the beginning 1 Iohn 2. ver 14. for the old way verse 6. The way the truth and the life Ioh. 14. and for the honour of that Church against which the gates of hell can never prevaile in the which there are all those undeceiveable marks as are able for ever to declare her to be built upon the foundation of Peter in which the Gospell of Jesus Christ is purely and sincerely both preached and beleeved and where the Sacraments are rightly administred and in the which there is the true invocation of God and all other requisites that make her a true Church and from which there is no just cause of separation That I have dedicated this Treatise to no man nor sought the patronage of any Authority no mortall creature I presume will blame me knowing my Reasons For writing in defence of the Prerogative Royall of Kings against Papall Usurpation I dedicated my booke unto the King of great Britaine France and Ireland supposing my selfe safe under his protection whose honour and imperiall dignity I maintain but all men know what misery to the ruine of me my wife and many small children came upon me by it through the power and exorbitant authority of the Prelates so that for my duty and Loyalty to the King I had a prison for my reward and the scornes and contumelies of the world to comfort me in it And when I most humbly petitioned his highnesse complaining against the injustice done me and most submissively supplicated his Majesty who was the Caesar to whom only I could then appeal that he would be pleased to grant me one of these humble requests either That his Majesty would be pleased but for one houre to give me a hearing of my just defence or if that could not be granted That at lest he would then grant me that liberty in his Kingdome that he denyed not to Crows and Kites and other Vermine that I might provide for my young ones and if his highnesse would not be pleased to condescend unto either of the former just demands That then he would give me leave to depart the Kingdom and to go into any other Country where I might enjoy my Liberty and provide for my poore distressed family I am most assured there was never a more equall Petition put up to any Prince in the world yet his Majestie vouchsafed not to yeeld unto any of these my requests nor to any other Petition put up either by my poor distressed wife or calamitous children so that without any wrong unto his Majesty I may truely say That Paul found more favour from a Heathen Roman Caesar then I had from a Christian King the defender of the faith After I saw all possibility of releefe was now taken from me I writ my Apology to the Bishops themselves discovering unto them their unjust proceedings in their Courts and their unrighteous dealings towards my selfe and gave them my reasons of all I spake without any offensive language and without any perturbation of Spirit and Dedicated this my Booke to the Lords of his Majesties Privy Councell expecting ayde and reliefe from them and indeed I had no hope of succour from any other nor knew none to whom I could better apply my selfe earnestly imploring their patronage but they as it is well knowne of Patrons became my unjust Judges and after they had made me a spectacle to Men and Angells and exposed me to the scorne and ludibry of the world sent me into banishment where I lived a living death and a dying life and suffered such intolerable misery of all sorts as would exceed beliefe to relate and I am most confident if all the particulars were truly known the world never heard the like and there I had ended my dolefull life had not God of his infinite mercy called this Parliament and put into their hearts to redeem me from my captivity for the which incomparable favour I do as of duty I am ever bound professe my selfe to the last drop of my blood to be their servant in the Lord and in all their most just and honourable imployments I hope with all fidelity to answer to the expectation of the world and shall in life and death shew my selfe to be one that without all by-respects shall ever aime at the glory of God the honour of them and my Country and the common good of all and shall never by Gods assistance do any thing in their concernment that shall be unbeseeming a Man and a Christian Now because by my sad experience I found that I could neither from King nor Nobles have protection I resolved never any more in Gods matters to shroud my self under any covert but Divine Providence and that I with an assured confidence promise my self especially when I now maintain the prerogative royall of the King of Saints King of Kings the Lord Jesus Christ Who is our Lawgiver upon whose shoulders the government of his Church is laid who is the wonderfull Counseller the Prince of peace whose dignity and royalty in all this dispute between me and Mr. Walter Mountague I have to the uttermost of my power maintained under the
of necessity follow that as the Mother-churches were first govern'd all the Daughter-churches to the end of the world must be so govern'd and according to that rule that is set down in the Word of God So then the question in hand between us and our Brethren is Whether there were many Congregations and Assemblies in any of those primitive Churches as in that of Ierusalem the Mother Church and many Elders or Presbyters in that Church and all other Officers and whether all those Congregations and Assemblies were one Church and those Presbyters and Officers all of them Elders and Officers of that one Church and whether all those Congregations and Assemblies were under one Presbytery Which is the opinion of the Presbyterians and the contrary that of the Independents This I say is the question between us and our Brethren Now then if it can be proved that there were more Beleevers in the Church of Jerusalem then could all meet in one place or in one congregation for all acts of worship and if it can be evidently elucidated that there were severall assemblies and congregations in the Church of Jerusalem yet so as they made but one church for government then our Brethren must of necessity acknowledge that the church of Jerusalem was govern'd by a common-councell of Presbyters or was presbyterially governed Neither did our Brethren ever yet undertake to prove that in case there were many Assemblies in Jerusalem they had severall and independent presbyteries neither it they should go about to prove could they do it And therfore we may conclude and that with very good reason and warrantable authority that as the Mother-church the church of Jerusalem in her greatest glory was govern'd so all other Churches must likewise be regulated to the end of the world For out of Zion shal go forth the Law the Word of the Lord from Ierusalem Isay 2. v. 3. We must have both our Law from thence and our paterne of government And out Brethren do make the Church of Jerusalem the patern of their proceedings Now that all things may be handled in good order and in a methodicall way I will reduce the whole Disputation concerning the first Question into these foure Propositions and prove them in order The first That there were many Congregations and severall Assemblies of Beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem in the which they enjoyed all acts of worship and all the Ordinances amongst themselves and did partake of all acts of Church-fellowship especially of preaching and in the administration of the Sacraments and Prayer and that before the Persecution we reade of Acts 8. v. 1. The second That all these Congregations and severall Assemblies made but one Church The third That the Apostles and Elders governed ordered and ruled this Church joyntly and by a Common-counsell and Presbytery The fourth That this Church of Ierusalem and the government of the same is to be a pattern for all severall congregations and assemblies in any City or vicinity to unite into one Church and for the Officers of those congregations to governe that Church joyntly in a Colledge or Presbyterie But before I come to the proof of these particulars it will not be amisse in generall to take notice that all the Churches we read of in the New Testament were Aristocratically and Presbyterially governed and were all dependent upon their severall Presbyteries and that the ordering and managing of that government lay onely upon the Presbyterie and was their peculiar who had the power of the Keyes Now Christ gave the Keyes to the Apostles and Presbyters only and whatsoever the Apostles did in ordering and setling the government of the Church they did by Christs command and that order and constitution they set down in the Church was to be perpetuated and continued to the end of the world And the violating of this order and divine constitution was the occasion of the rise and growth of Antichrist and the very cause of all those confusions that the Christian world hath for these many generations been wearied and annoyed with and the occasion of all those Schismes Sects and Heresies the world hath ever swarmed with and the re-establishing and reducing of it to its pristine constitution will be a means not only of removing all scandall and taking away of all division amongst Brethren and be a singular means also of establishing a flourishing government in Church State and for the procuring of the blessings of God upon the three Kingdoms but a way also of ruining that Man of Sinne and of making an absolute Reformation through the whole world Let us therefore first take notice what government was established by God in all the Primitive Churches Acts 14. 23. And when they had ordained them Presbyters for so it is in the originall in every Church and had prayed with fasting they commended them to the Lord on whom they beleeved Here are two things observable The first that the government of the Church was committed to the Presbyters The second that the Presbyteriall government was that government that was established in every Church for so saith the Holy Ghost when they had ordained them Presbyters in every Church This was Gods ordinance Acts 20. 17. And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the Presbyters of the Church Here we see there were many Presbyters in one Church And Verse 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves saith the Apostle and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you Bishops to feed the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood Here as we may observe that in Gods Dialect Presbyters and Bishops were all one so likewise is evident that the Church was committed to their government this Church therefore of Ephesus was under a Presbytery and was to be regulated joyntly by them by a common-councell of Presbyters And Paul to Titus chap. 1. vers 5. For this cause saith he life I thee in Creet that thou shouldest put in order the things that are wanting and ordaine Presbyters in every City as I appointed thee If any man be blamelesse c. for a Bishop must be blamelesse as the Steward of God c. From this place likewise we may take notice of the parity between Presbyter and Bishop and that the Presbyterian government was that way of ruling that God appointed not in one City onely but in every City and that these Presbyters were the Stewards in Gods house which is his Church 1 Tim. 3. and had the government of those Churches in every City laid upon them which they were joyntly to governe and order by the common-counsell of Presbyters And Paul in his first Epistle to Timothy chap. 5. v. 17. Let the Presbyters saith he that rule well be counted worthy of double honour especially they who labour in word and doctrine Still we ever observe that the rule and government of the Church was in the Presbyters hands And the Author to the
Epistle to the Hebrews ch 13. 7. Remember saith he them that have the rule over you who have spake unto you the Word of God whose faith follow considering the end of their conversation And vers 17. Obey saith he them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your soules as they that must give an account c. And in vers 24. Salute all them saith he that have the rule over you and all the Saints Here againe he injoynes all the Churches to yeild obedience and to submit themselves unto the government of the Presbyterie shewing them that it is their place to obey and for their Ministers to rule and that so long as they command in the Lord they out of conscience ought to obey them and that for a double reason For they watch saith he for your souls and they must also give an account of their stewardship And in 1 Peter 5 1 2 3. The Presbyters that are among you saith Saint Peter I exhort who am also a Presbyter and a witnesse of the sufferings of Christ and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed feed the flock of God which is among you taking the over sight thereof not by constraint but willingly c. neither as being Lords over Gods heritage but being examples to the flock And Saint James chap. 5. ver 14. Is any among you sick saith he let him call for the Presbyters of the Church He doth not say of the Churches but of the Church So that the Presbyterian government was in every Church and every Church was to submit it self unto the Presbytery And in Acts 15. it is said that Paul and Barnabas went up to the Apostles and Presbyters c. And when they came to Ierusalem they were received of the Church it is not said of the Churches but of the Church and of the Apostles and Presbyters c. and Verse 6. And the Apostles and Presbyters came together to consider of the matter c. and Vers 22. Then pleased it the Apostles and Presbyters with the whole Church c. and wrote Letters by them after this manner The Apostles and Presbyters and Brethren And Acts 21. 17. And when we were come to Ierusalem saith Saint Luke the Brethren received us gladly And the day following Paul went in with us in to Iames and all the Presbyters were present From all which places and many more which might be produced it is most clear and evident that in all Cities there was a Presbytery and that the Presbyters had the power of order namely of preaching and the power of jurisdiction that is of ruling which was ever to be exercised with others and not alone and that consisted in admitting of members and in conventing men before them upon occasion in admonishing if any offended in suspending them from the holy Communion till reformation or amendment and if they continued obstinate and incorrigble in excommunicating and casting of them out of the Church and upon repentance in receiving of them in again and in ordaining of Officers and in appointing the times of meeting and the places where And within these limits as I conceive is all the power given to the Presbyters terminated and this they are by Gods Ordinance joyntly and by the common-counsell of Presbyters to exercise and it peculiarly belongeth unto them and therefore the Presbyterian government was the order of ruling and governing all Churches that God himself established and is to be continued unto the end of the world neither do I ever read that the people or the congregations were joyned with them in their commission or had any power given them of ruling For Saint Paul professeth of himself in 1 Cor. 14. 37. that whatsoever he writ in his Epistles Were the Commands of the Lord. And the same may be said of all the other Apostles Now Paul writ to Titus that the Churches in all Cities should be governed by a Presbytery And in the first Epistle to Timothy he commands Timothy again and again in chap. 5. vers 21. and in chap. 6. v. 12 13. I give thee charge in the sight of God saith he That thou keep this Command without spot unblameable till the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ Here Timothy and all Ministers in him are to the end of the world bound to maintain that government unblameable that was appointed by the Apostles and that was the Presbyterian government and the ruling of all Churches by joynt consent and a common counsell or Colledge of Presbyters so that nothing ought to be done or transacted of publick concernment without their joynt and mutuall accord or agreement and common consent of the Presbytery And therfore when Diotrephes assumed unto himself and his particular congregation a power and authority to rule according to his will and pleasure without the consent of the Presbytory opposed Iohn the Presbyter he sharply reproves his proceedings and signifies to the Church Epist 3. That when he came he would remember his words and teach him how to prate against the Presbytery with malicious words For he saith S. Iohn contenteth not himself only to prate maliciously against us but he will not receive his brethren nor suffer others but casteth them out of the Church which is an evill thing in him saith Saint Iohn But for you saith he speaking to the Church follow not that which is evill but that which is good It was evill in him to assume unto himself alone and his particular Congregation that power that belonged unto the colledge or councell of Presbyters and was to be moderated and exercised onely by the conjoynt and common consent of the Presbytery For God had appointed that his Church should be governed by a Presbytery and Diotrephes would have his Congregation Independent and have an absolute jurisdiction within it self Which saith Saint Iohn is an evill thing So that I cannot but wonder our brethren the Independents should call Diotrephes the Patriarch of the Presbyterians as one of them did to me not long since whereas if the place be duâ—ly weighed and considered it will appear that he was the first that opposed the Presbyterian Govenment and for the which he was by Saint Iohn sharply reproved and in him all that follow his steps and will not submit themselves to the Presbytery which is Gods Ordinance and that will not receive the brethren into the Churches but upon their own termes and conditions But of this businesse when I come to the second Question In the mean time I must here make reply to what Mr Knollys by way of Answer hath to say to this Argument drawn from Diotrephes his practise which was occasioned as I related before by reason of a discourse between me and an Independent who affirmed That Diotriphes was the patriarch of all the Presbyterians which opinion of his Mr Knollys doth seem to favour as by his words may appear but I hope to make the contrary
more evident then yet it hath been viz. That Diotrephes was the primate of the Independents and of all those of the congregationall way But first I will set down Mr Knollys his words at large to take away all occasions of their calumniating tongues who ordinarily use to say That we keep from the world their Arguments that we may the better delude the people and hold them in ignorance His words therefore by way of answer to that Argument are these Now let the reader judge saith he whether the Doctor be not much mistaken in his commentary exposition and application of this place of Scripture And let me give you to understand that Saint Iohn saith verse the 9. I wrote unto the Church But seeing no mention is made of any particular congregation how can the Doctor so confidently affirme that it was his particular congregation Now the reader may see plainly that the Doctor can expound those brethren and their Elders or Presbyters which the Scripture calls a Church to be a particular congregation And what it was which Saint Iohn had written to the Church is not in this Epistle nor in any other Scripture delcared except it was to receive those brethren which he saith ver 8 ought to be received and ver 10 whom Diotrephes would not receive how then doth the Doctor say that Diotrephes assumed that power to himselfe which belonged unto the Colledge and Councell of Presbyters without whose joynt and mutuall agreement and common consent nothing ought to be done or transacted of publike concernment is the receiving of brethren or casting out of brethren a power which belongs to a colledge of Presbyters and neither the one nor the other may be transacted by the Elders and Brethren of a particular congregation unlesse the Court or common-councell of Presbyters conjoyntly consent unto it Let it be also considered that D otrephes opposed the brethren and forbad them that would have received those who Saint John saith vers the 8. we ought to receive yea and cast them out verse 10. of the Church to wit excommunicate them Doth it hereby appear that Diotrephes would have his congregation Independent and have an absolute jurisdiction within it selfe No but Diotrephes would lord it over the Church and have the preeminency above his brethren whether fellow-Elders or fellow Saints Diotrephes loving the primacy amongst them he would be the Primate and Metropolitan of the Church and have the preeminency of all the Presbyters in it and brethren of it The Doctor could have urged this Scripture against the domineering Prelates and why should he marvell that his brethren should now urge it against the Court of Presbyters It is confest that Diotrephes did that which was evill in usurping authority over the Church and those brethren he cast out of the Church But that he was the first that opposed the Presbyterian government or that he did affront a Court or common councell of Presbyters it is more then I know or the Doctor can prove For had Diotrephes done so why was he not convented before them Surely the Apostle Saint Iohn would rather have written to the colledge of Presbyters if there were any such then to the Church or in writing to the Church would tather have sent him a summons to appear at some consistory before the Court and common-councell of Presbyters then to warne them to take heed of hiâ— evill that they did not follow it And doubtlesse St John would have writen thus Diotrephes loves to be a Primate amongst you wherefore when the Presbytry that is to say the Magistracy or Signiory of grave solid learned religious and wise Divines and Ministers come to keep order and meet together in a Court and common-councell I will remember his deeds and informe or complain to the Court and common-councell of Presbyters that he prates against us the Presbyters with malicious words But the Apostle Saint Iohn did not know any Court or Common-councell of Presbyters neither Classicall nor Synodicall to appeal unto Nor can the Doctor make good those appeals he mentioneth page 10 to be according to the Scripture of truth to wit that every particular man as well as any assembly or congregation may have their appeals to the Presbytry of their Precinct hundred or division under whose jurisdictions they were and if they found themselves wronged there that they have appeals to some other higher Presbytry or Councell of Divines for releefe and justice I only aske the Doctor how he can prove those appeals by Scripture and if he could whether that higher Presbytry or councell of Divines especially if they may say the Holy Ghost and wee be not as Independent as these brethren and their churches against whom the Doctor hath written And if so then such a high Presbytry or councell of Divines is not Gods Ordinance by the Doctors own confession and affirmation Therefore the Apostle writes to the Church or particular congregation whereof Diotrephes was a Member and an Elder whom he knew had power to judge him as well as the Church or particular congregation of Corinth had power to judge them that were members therein 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. and therefore might as warantably admonish Diotrephes as the Church of Colosse might Archipus Coloss 4. 17. And if nothing of publike concernment ought to be done or transacted without the joynt and mutuall accord or agreement and common consent of the Presbytry Iohn the Presbyter would not have transgressed so farr as to take upon himselfe this authority over Diotrephes to tell the Church of his faults and to say he would remember him and sharply reprove him and teach him to prate against the Presbytry with malicious words which belonged unto the Court and common-councell of Presbyters But I shall have a just occasion to say more touching this matter in the answer unto the third question and therefore passing by the objection with his answer mentioned page 19. to the 29. unto its due place I shall desire seriously to consider the Doctors proof of his first proposition which he laboureth first by producing such Scriptures as he conceiveth make for the manifestation of the truth and from thence frames and formeth his arguments Thus Mr Knollys in way of reply speaketh to my argument concerning Diotrephes and of his intention what he will do in the insuing discourse to all the other arguments I have here set down his words at large omitting only the greek and latin texts which he School-boy-like scribleth to little other purpose than to shew his own vanity and to perswade the ignorant people that he is some-body in the Greeke and Latine tongue which kind of learning notwithstanding the most of his fraternity generally despise and contemne I have therefore omitted them especially having learned this lesson from Saint Paul 1 Cor. chap. 13. vers 19. rather to speak five words to the understanding of the people that I might teach others then ten thousand words in an unknown
his own words by which he consenâ—s to that I had written to be true to wit that all the Churches of the New Testament were all Aristocratically to be governed that is that all the particular congregations under the severall Presbyters were to be moderated and regulated Communi consilio Presbyteram so that if every Congregat on and particular assembly then the pastor and Elder also of that congregation as being but a chieâ—e member of it is to be ordered and governed by the joynt and common councell of the whole colledge of Presbyters and that by Mr Knollys his own concession from which grant of his I shall now likewise deduce these ensuing conclusions which will necessarily follow out of his words and all of them fatall to his own principles and to the opinion of those of the congregationall way The first that the people are wholly excluded from Government in the Church for saith he It is not denyed by the brethren that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in Government of the Churches in which they were Elders So that the people and Church though presbyterated as they speak have not the government in their hands as indeed they have not as never having received the Keyes nor never having been made stewards of the Church nor joyned in Commission with the Elders and therefore they can never either receive in members or cast out offenders for all these are acts of Government and belong onely to the Rulers of the Church whom the people are ever to obey in the Lord as he granteth and by this he overthrows all that which afterward he affirms that the Church or Congregation of which Diotrephes was an Elder had power over him and this is the first conclusion that of necessity followeth out of Mr Knollys his words but more of this in the sequell of this discourse The second conclusion that follows out of his words is this That the Government was not put into the hands of any one Elder with his Congregation but into the hands of many Elders that is into the hands of the whole Presbytery to wit the Court or Colledge of Presbyters so that they and they only joyntly and together had the power both to question convent and censure for M. Knollys saith It is not denyed by the brethren but that the Presbyters in al churches were the men in the government according to that of S. John If I come I will remember his deeds which he doth prating against us So that whosoever shall Diotrephes like indeavour to alter this government and assume it to themselves from the other Elders and from the Presbyters or to invest the people with it or joyn them in commission with the Elders or to arrogate unto themselves or to their particular congregations an absolute jurisdiction within themselves and an Independency from them and shall go about to disgrace and prate against the Presbyters and labour to bring them into the hatred of the people and shall take this liberty at pleasure to cast out whom they will out of their congregations or to bring in whom they please upon their owne tearmes and conditions and exercise an absolute Lordly Dominion amongst themselves over their congregations and the severall members in them all such are guilty of Diotrephes his sinne and offend in like manner and are equally to be blamed as assumers unto themselvs of that power which only belongeth to the presbytery now when all the Independents are guilty of this crime they may justly with Diotrephes be censurd and this is the second conclusion that necessarily followeth from Mr. Knollys his words The third is this that there were many congregations in all the primitive churches and yet made all of them within their severall precincts and jurisdictions but one church for so it was here in the church that Saint Iohn writeth unto where there were many Elders as Master Knollys confesseth in the which every Elder had his particular congregation as well as Diotrephes for they were no way inferiour to him so that if he had his particular congregation they each of them severally had their congregations likewise and yet they were all of them to be governed and ruled communi consilio presbyterorum which kind of government Diotrephes opposing or refusing obedience unto and affecting a Supremacy and jurisdiction to himselfe and his congregation independent from the presbytery was justly blamed by the Apostle Saint Iohn in that he prated against the presbyters with malicious words So that by all that I have now said these three positions are clearely manifest which Master Knollys denyeth viz the first That Diotrephes had a particular congregation The second that he affected an absolute jurisdicton within himselfe and to have his congregation independent and that he was the first that opposed the presbyterian government for we never read of any that prated malicious words against the Presbyterie before The third that the church that Saint Iohn writ unto was governed by the common counsell of the Presbytery at that time and that Saint Iohn did then acknowledge a Court and common councell of Presbyters both Classicall and Synodicall to appeale unto all which Master Knollys notwithstanding doth peremptorily deny But for the fuller elucidation of the truth I will first make all these propositions good from Master Knollys his own words in this his answer and then I will prove those severall appeales I made mention of page 10. and after that evidently evince that the people and congregation in any Church have not power to judge their Ministers and that it is a meare babble in M. Knollys to say that if nothing of publicke concernment were to be done without the joynt consent of the Presbytery that then Saint Iohn the Presbyter would not have transgressed so farre as to take upon him this authority over Diotrephes to tell the Church of his faults c. all these things I will methodically handle and then go on to answer whatsoever Master Knollys hath to say to all my other arguments in their due places And for proofe that Diotrephes had a particular congregation which Master Knollys saith there was no mention of waving the reasons above specified from that nigh relation that is betweene a Pastor and a flocke which is so much urged by all the Independents I say waving all those reasons I will make use of Master Knollys his owne words for it may be he will beleeve himselfe and perhaps his Disciples and followers and those of the congregationall way will give more credit to him whom they accompt very learned then to any thing I can produce out of the holy Scripture and if they will duly consider and ponder his expression they will then perceive not only his errors but how palpably he everywhere contradicteth himselfe and woundeth their cause and everteth their opinion whiles he laboureth with all his power to maintaine and defend it Diotrephes saith he opposed the brethren and forbad them
that would have received them yea and cast them out ver 10. of the Church to wit excommunicated them but doth it hereby appear saith he that Diotrephes would have his congregation independent and have an absolute jurisdiction within it selfe Nâ— saith he but Diotrephes would lord it over the Church and have the Preeminency above his brethren whether fellow Elders or fellow Saints By the way take notice that in Master Knollys his opinion Diotrephes was a Saint Saint Diotrephes therfore let him be even such another Saint as himselfe and his brethren are Diotrephes saith he loving the primacy amongst them would be the Primate and Metropolitan of the Church and have the preeminency of all the Presbyters in it and brethren of it And why therefore should the Doctor marvell that his brethren should now urge this place against the Court of Preshyters Thus Master Knollys while he seemes to answer most maliciously and wickedly calumniates his brethren and labours to perswade the world that the presbyters of our times are like Diotrephes in affecting Supremacy over their fellow Presbyters and over the churches and all this to inrage the people against them when it is they themselves that would bring all men under their slavery and have an absolute authority and jurisdiction Independent in their severall congregations within themselves which was the sinne of Diotrephes But out of Master Knollys his words it appeareth that Diotrephes had a particular congregation For Church and congregation are Synonimaes in his Dialect which is yet more clearely evident from his words page the 7. which are these Therefore saith he the Apostle writs to the Church or particular congregation whereof Diotrephes was a member and an Elder who he knew had power to judge him These are Master Knollys formall expressions out of all which it doth now evidently appeare that there were many Presbyters and many congregations in that Church Saint Iohn writeth unto and that Diotrophes had his particular congregation amongst them for so Master Knollys doth in expresse termes acknowledge and in so speaking contradicts himselfe and vindicates me from the error he accused me of who affirmed I was much mistaken in my commentary exposition and application of that place saying there was no mention made of any particular congregation Diotrephes had And yet here he asserteth that Saint Iohn writ to the church or particular congregation whereof Diotrephes was a member and an Elder so that he hath done my worke for me once and again and made himselfe guiltie of that fault he charged me with page 6 and page 7. By which all men may see not only the contentiousnesse and restlesnesse of the creatures spirit and the folly of the man who contradicteth himselfe at every hand but may also gather that that Church consisted of many congregations all the which made but one Church within its precinct and was to be governed by the joynt consent and common counsell of the Presbyterie and that Diotrephes aspiring to the primacy amongst them and seeking to stand singular by himselfe with his congregation and to be Independent and to have no relation or reference to the Presbyters of that Church became an offender by it and was therefore severely reproved by Saint Iohn for his so doing in opposing his brethren in taking in and casting out of what members he pleased by his sole and absolute authority all which Mr Knollys accordeth to whether therefore this were not to make his congregation Independent and whether Diotrephes was not the first that opposed the Presbyterian government and affronted a Court and common councell of Presbyters seeing we read of none that did these things before him and whether those that now seek to establish an absolute jurisdiction in every congregation within themselves Independent be not rather like Diotrephes than those godly Ministers that desire the government in common according to Gods holy word I leave it to the judgement of the learned to consider and whether or no Mr Knollys doth not palpably contradict himselfe in all this his discourse for he acknowledgeth that Diotrephes had his particular congregation and opposed the Presbyters in it and that he did evill in usurping authority over the church and those brethren he cast out and yet notwithstanding he said it was more then he knew or I could prove Whether this therefore be not to contradict himself and to say and unsay and meerly to trifle I leave to the judgement of all intelligible men I conceive that all men that are but of ordinary capacity when they shall well consider my argument and Mr Knollys his reply unto it will say that Diotrephes assumed that power to himselfe which belonged to the Colledge and councell of Presbyters for if he had not bin a transgressour and an offender against Saint Iohn and the other Presbyters the Apostle would never have said Wherefore if I come I will remember his deeds which he doth prating against us with malicious wordes c. so that by us there must necessarily be understood Saint John himselfe and the other Presbyters for he includes himselfe in the number of those that Diotrephes prated against and opposed Now Saint John was an Elder for so he calleth himselfe and Mr Knollys acknowledgeth it and confesseth also that there were many more Elders in that Church and against all those did Diotrephes prate with malicious words in opposition to their authority which Mr Knollys doth not gain-say yea he affirmrth it that Diotrephes would lord it over the Church and have the preeminency above his brethren whether fellow-Elders or fellow-Saints he would be Primate saith he and Metropolitan of the Church and have the preeminency of all the Presbyters in it and Brethren of it Doth it not then sufficiently appear from Mr Knollys his own words that Diotrephes assumed that power to himselfe that belonged to the Colledge and councell of Presbyters and that he was the first that opposed the Presbyterian government and that affronted the common-councell of Presbyters without speaking of malicious words against them lording it over the Church and taking in and casting out of members and ruling after an arbitrary way and with a sole power and authority within himselfe in his congregation and violating that order of government God had established in that Church be not in Mr Knollys and those of his parties judgement to assume that authority to himselfe that belonged unto the councell of Presbyters and openly to oppose the Presbyterian government and to affront all the Presbyters which were ridiculous in any man to affirme I am confident all intelligible Christians will say there was never any opposition of any court or councell of Presbyters if this were not and yet Mr Knollys saith it is more then he knoweth or I can prove that Diotrephes assumed that power to himselfe that belonged unto the Colledge of Presbyters or that he opposed the Presbyterian government and yet acknowledgeth the thing in formall words whether
therefore he doth not again and again contradict himselfe and confirme my argument and fight against his own opinion I leave it to the judgement of the learned I shall also desire the reader seriously to consider with himselfe whether these words of Saint Iohn Wherfore if I come saith he I will remember his deeds which he doth prating against us with malicious words do not necessarily inferre that there was a Court and common-councell of Presbyters in that Church to appeal unto in Saint Iohns time For to what purpose otherwise should St. Iohn have said If I come I will remember his deeds if there had bin no power and authority in that Church to have called Diotrephes to an accompt and to have punished and censured him But saith Mr Knollys If Diotrephes had affronted the Court and common-councell of Presbyters why was he not convented before them Surely the Apostle and Elder Saint John would rather have writ to the Colledge of Presbyters if there had bin any such than to the Church and would rather have sent him a summons to appear at some Consistory and would have writ thus Diotrephes loves to be a Primate among you wherefore when the Presbytry come to keep order and to meet together in a councell I will remember his deeds and informe against him that he praâ—eâ— against us with malicious words but the Apostle did not know of any such Court or councell of Presbyters to appeal unto Thus Mr Knollys triflingly cavilleth As if Saint Iohn and the Presbyters had been all ignorant of their duty and as if in writing unto the Church Saint Iohn did not in that write to the Presbyters in it also as well as Christ writing unto the seven Churches and in sending unto them did not also write unto the Angels and Presbyters in them when we learne from all those Epistles and from the holy Scripture that the government of all those seven churches as of all the Apostolicall churches through the world lay only on the Presbyters shoulders which Mr Knollys also assenteth unto saying page 11. That it is not denyed by the brethren that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in the government of the Churches in which they were Elders So that it cannot be denied but in his writting to the Church he writ unto the Presbyters principally who were the Officers in it and the cheife members of it and knew very well that there was a Court of Presbyters in that Church who would in convenient time have called Diotrephes to an accompt though Saint Iohn had never come thither but he signifying that when he came he would remember his deeds made them retard their proceeding against him for a time that he being a fellow-Presbyter with them as Peter was with those Presbyters he writs unto 1 Epistle Pet. chap. 5. might have the hearing of the cause amongst the other Presbyters all which sufficiently confirmeth that Saint Iohn did acknowledge a common councell of presbyters in that Church to appeale unto And therefore all Master Knollys his whibling questions are vaine and meerely to delude the people for what man is there so stupid or so unexperienced in matters of government or but understands the practice of our times in every corporation or Committee through the Kingdome that knowes not if any Alderman of any Corporation or any Commissioner of any Committee should affect a particular domination to himselfe over his fellow-Aldermen or Commissioners or over the people that were under their charge whenas they are by their charters and Commissions to governe their several corporations Hundreds Rapes Ridings or Wapentaks by the common consent and joynt counsell and aggreement of them all so that no order made without their combined authority or the joynt consent of them all or the major part of them should be binding and of force I say who doth not know that if any of those Aldermen or Commissioners contrary unto their Charter or Commission should not onely assume unto himself a particular power of ruling and ordering things by himselfe and of giving Lawes unto others and in bringing in or putting out either in the Corporation or Committee whom they pleased and should also use disgracefull words against their fellow-Aldermen or Commissioners that any either Alderman or Commissioner doing any of these things doth not oppose the Corporation Committee with the commissioners in them and by that offend against their government and deserveth thereby severely to be punished And who doth not likewise know that if either any of the Aldermen or any of the Commissioners should understand of this their disorderly carriage and should informe the Corporation or Committee of it by letters and say that when he came he would remember his deeds by these his expressions doth not acknowledge likewise that there is both in the corporation and committee a standing court in which there was power at all times for the punishing and censuring of any such offender I am most assured that he will so conclude that there is a court there and withall will say that this or that commissioners information doth no way impeach or hinder the proceedings of that court or minorise its power but that it may go on to censure such as shall offend against their authority if it can be proved by others though that commissioner that informed against him should not be present And even so it was in the Church Saint John writ unto it had a court and power within it selfe of proceeding against Diotrephes and would have used it against him whether S. Iohn had come or no although we may suppose that they did not proceed against him till Saint Iohn came yea I shall make it good out of Mr Knollys his words that there was a court in that church But by this I say it appeareth that Saint Iohn knew very well that there was a court or councell of Presbyters to appeal unto in his time in that church though Mr Knollys affirmeth the contrary peremptorily asserting that S. Iohn knew no such Court to appeal to and that I cannot prove any such appeals But it is ordinary with M. Knollys to confute the holy Scriptures and to contradict himself as he doth both here and in all other of his answers as in their due places we shall see For what Christian ever with deliberation did read the Scripture that can beleeve that St. Iohn could be ignorant that there was a court and Presbytry in every church when M. Knollys himself acknowledgeth it Without doubt Saint Iohn knew the government that was then established in all churches as well as Mr Knollys He could not be ignorant what government God had appointed established in every church which was a Presbytery as appeareth from all the places above quoted which was a Court to wit a company of officers in every church armed with power authority from God himself within their severall Presbytries to order rule and govern the people under
them and to convent any offender before them and to proceed against him by censure and punishment If the crime layd against him were sufficiently proved and that the people under them were to yeild obedience unto them in the Lord such a power was every Presbytery invested with through all the Apostolicall churches and this Mr Knollys hath acknowledged in divers places in this his Pamphlet in this his very answer concerning Diotrephes as we shall see by and by And all this S. Iohn could not be ignorant of and that in the Church of Ierusalem in which hee was both a Pastor and a Member that the Presbytery ruled there and that all the people made their addresses as well for the good of their soules as for the better rectifying of abuses to the Apostles and Presbyters of that Church and appealed alwayes unto them and never applyed themselves unto the people or the multitude as we may see in these particulars as First when they were pricked in their hearts they applied themselves unto the Apostles for direction saying men and brethren what shall we do Acts 2. they went not to the church or people but to the Apostles knowing that the Ministers were their guides and that they were to be directed by them and that they were bound to obey them And so in the fact of Ananias and Saphira his wife when they had purloyned the goods of the Church for whereas it was ordered and agreed upon by common consent that the price of those possessions that were sold should be layd down at the Apostles feet and that distribution should be made unto every man according as he had need contrary to this order Ananias kept back part of the price Saphira his wife also being privy to it Hereupon the people appeal unto the Apostles in whose hands the government then lay and who had power to censure and punish them as they did for that their delinquency as it is to be seen Acts the 5. they went not to the people and Church but applyed themselves to the Presbytery and of this proceeding Saint John was not ignorant Again when the widdowes were neglected in the daily ministration for the taking away of this abuse they appealed unto the Apostles as we may see in the sixt of the Acts and not unto the Church or people who ordered that businesse and determined the controversie amongst them to which the people assented This also Saint Iohn was not ignorant of And he knew very well that the Presbytery in Ierusalem and all other Churches had power to send any of the Apostles or their other Ministers into any other place to preach or upon any message as we may see it Acts the 8 and Acts 14 15. For the Presbytery of Ierusalem sent Peter and Iohn to the City of Samaria to preach amongst the people there which they could not have done except the Presbitry had had power and authority in their hands over theÌ„ we see also the same in the Church of Antioch where they sent Paul and Barnabas and their ministers to the Presbitry at Ierusalem the Presbitry of Ierusalem they likewise sent their decrees by their Ministers through all Cities and Churches which they could not have done had they not had authority over the Ministers Again S. Iohn knew very well that the power of admitting of members lay not in the peoples hands for we read Acts the 9. When Paul came to Ierusalem and assayed to joyn himself to the Disciples and that they being affraid of him believing not that he was a Disciple St Paul appeals from them to the Presbytery of the Apostles in whose hands the government lay and declaring unto them how matters were they admitted him into fellowship with them without the consent of the people their good liking for the government did not belong unto them All these proceedings Saint Iohn knew very well and therefore could not be ignorant that there was a Court and Councell to appeal to in all Churches Yea Saint Iohn knew also that the Presbytry of Ierusalem had power and authority over any of the Apostles and did upon any occasion convent them before them as we may see in the 11. chap. and 21. where Peter was called before the Presbytery for going in to the Gentiles and was therefore to give an accompt of his actions there which he did all with shews there was there a standing Court and so in the 21. chapter the Presbytry gave Saint Paul an order and direction how to behave himself toward the weak ones which he followed all which shewes that they only had the power in their hands and that there was a court there and that it belonged not to the people all these things I say S. Iohn was not ignorant of therfore knew very well that in that Church also where Diotrephes was a Presbyter there was a Court and Common-councell of Presbyters to appeal unto or else he would never have said If I come I will remember his deeds But why should I spend time in proving that which to any understanding man is as evident a nd clear as almost any other truth in the holy Scripture especially when Mr Knollys hath proved it himself in formall words in many places in this his answer for he confesseth that there was a Presbytery established in every Church and that the government of those Churches was put into the Presbyters hands and that the people were to obey those Presbyters as their guides and in expresse termes page the seventh saith Therefore the Apostle writes to the Church or particular congregation whereof Diotrephes was a Member and an Elder who he knew had power to judge him as well as the Church or particular Congregation of Corinth had power to judge them that were Members therein 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. And therefore might as warrantably admonish Diotrephes as the Church of Colosse might Archippus Coloss 4. verse 17. in these words He confesseth that Saint Iohn knew that the Church whereof Diotrephes was a Member and Presbyter had power to judg him which doth necessarily infer that there was at that time a court there for judgement and censure and inflicting of punishment is the act of a court or Magistracy and of those that are in authority and armed with power besides for further illustration of his meaning he saith that the church Saint Iohn writ unto had the same power over its Members that the church of Corinth had over its Members Now all men that have read the first and second Eâ—istle of Paul to the Corinthians know very well that there was a court in the church of Corinth with plenary authority from Christ himselfe both to convent and censure and that with the severest punishment those that did publikely scandalize the Gospell as is evident by the excommunication of the incestuous person now if that church that St. Iohn writ unto were equall in power to that of Corinth and that
of Colosse and to all the other Apostolicall churches as Mr Knollys confesseth and laboureth to prove then these conclusions will necessarily follow from his argumentations The first that Saint Iohn could not be ignorant that there was a court and common-councell of Presbyters in that church to appeal unto for Mr Knollys saith that Saint John knew that that Church had power to judge Diotrephes and therefore in this contradicteth himselfe for in the sixth page he affirmed that Saint Iohn knew not any such court 2ly it follows that there was an Uniformity of government in all the Apostolicall and Primitive churches W ch wholy overthroweth the tenent of many of the Independents who hold the contrary so that one church had not one manner of government and another church another manner of government peculiar unto it selfe and distinct from the other but they were all governed alike by their severall Presbyteryes and had equall authority and power within their severall precincts as the church at Ierusalem Ephesus Corinth in all which there were many congregations and yet all of them made but each of them a particular church within their respective jurisdictions and were all to be governed by the joynt consent of there severall Presbytries And lastly that this order of government was to be perpetuated to the end of the world which when Saint Diotrephes laboured to violate in assuming it to himselfe and his congregation both hee and all these that follow his steps deserve severely to be punished for it as prevaricators against both precept and example of all well ordered churches and Christians And this shall suffice to have replyed by way of answer to what Mr Knollys had to say for proofe that Saint Iohn knew not of any Court or Common-councell of Presbyters either classicall or synodicall to appeal unto in his time And now I come to make good those appeals I made mention of page 10. which Mr Knollys thinketh a thing impossible for me to do to wit That every particular man as well as any assembly or congregation may have their appeal to the Presbytery of their Precinct Hundred or Division under whose jurisdiction they were and if they finde themselves wronged there then they have appeales to some other higher Presbytery or Councell of Divines for reliefe and justice These appeales Master Knollys saith I cannot make good to be according to the Scripture of truth although the having recourse by appeales from Inferiors to Superiors and from one Court to another is so evident by the very light of nature and approved of by the practice of all Nations and Churches in all ages and is also so apparent by the holy Scriptures both of the old and new testament as there is scarce any truth more obvious to all understanding men yet Master Knollys peremptorily asserteth that they cannot be made good out of the Scriptures of truth so that it is manifest to all men that be there any truth never so perspicuous he is resolved to beleeve nothing but what he conceiveth to be according to the Scripture of truth Therefore for the gratifying of Master Knollys and all such as with candour and ingenuity and without any prejudice shall reade the insuing lines I shall in this place adde something more fully and distinctly to that which I spake in the foregoing page for the proofe of those appeales I mentioned page 10. and sufficiently evince they are warranted by the Word of truth and for that purpose I shall first produce the authority of holy Scriptures and bring forth some Presidents out of the unerring word for the confirmation of the same and then I shall also ratifie the use of appeales by reasons and from the practice of all ages in all Nations And all this I shall the more willingly do in this place although it is done againe and againe in this treatise and onely because Master Knollys affirmeth that I cannot make good that appeales be according to the Scripture of truth And for proofe ofthis I will begin with that of our Saviour Matth. 13 vers 15. Wherefore saith he if thy brother shall trespasse against thee go and tell him of his fault betweene thee and him alone c. But if he heare thee not appeale higher to two or three more And if he shall neglect to heare them appeale yet higher tell it then unto the Church that is to the Court of Presbyters in that precinct So that from this place it is evident that appeales are warranted by the Word of truth for truth it self hath taught us the Doctrine of appeals And for Presidents of appeales there are many in the New-Testament to say nothing of the Old To begin with that in the 5. of the Acts which we finde recorded after Christ's ascension in the questioning of Ananias and Saphira whereas by conjoynt argrement it was appointed and ordered amongst them that all things should be common and that selling their possessions they should bring the price of them and lay it also at the Apostles feet which very expression signifieth and denoteth what great authority and power the Apostles and Presbyters in the Church of Jerusalem were then in and sufficiently declares that there was a Court there as all the carriage of that businesse doth abundantly prove I say therefore when they had made such an order by common consent and when it was found out that Ananias and Saphira his wife had not dealt faithfully in that businesse nor according to publike agreement but had consented together to deceive their brethren and by that had scandalized the Gospel the Church or people for the redressing of this abuse take not the matter into their owne hands nor challenge not any power unto themselves for the punishing of Ananias and Saphira as well knowing their place then and that the government did not belong unto them but to the Elders and Rulers over them they appeale therefore unto the Apostles and make their complaint unto them and exhibit their Articles against Ananias and Saphira as both guilty of the same crime whereupon they were convented before the Apostles as Delinquents Peter then being there president and chiefe judge and finding them guilty sentenced them both from God himselfe and punished them for their sinne with death by which we may take notice not onely of an appeale but that there was a standing Court of Presbyters in Jerusalem and that they had in it plenary power from Christ for the tryall and punishing of all offenders and of casting them out of the Church if Scandalous as well as the Church of Corinth and it stands with all reason for Jerusalem was the mother Church and therefore was inferior to none of the Daughter-Churches and to this Court of Presbyters were all appeales ever to be made by the people of that precinct as this one instance doth sufficiently declare And that other president in the 6. of the Acts where we have a second appeale upon an other publike
scandall which was the neglect of their widdowes in the daily Ministration where they applyed themselves unto the Apostles for the particular congregations assumed not the authority into their hands of redressing the abuse nor challenged not any right to the government but appealed unto the Apostles for remedy who ordered that whole businesse by joynt consent to which all the people willingly submitted themselves as it is at large to be seene in the sixt Chapter of the Acts. The third appeale we finde Acts the ninth where Paul assaying to joyne himself to the Disciples and they being afraid of him and doubting whether he were a beleever Saint Paul forth with appeals from them to the Apostles who he knew had the authority in their hands and making knowne his cause unto them they forthwith admitted him into Church-fellow-ship with them without the consent of the people who indeed had nothing to do either in the admitting of members of casting of them out and therefore they allowed of the appeale of Saint Paul to teach all men whether to fly to wit the to Presbytery if they be injured by the people or debard from any Church-priviledge by them for they only are the stewards of the Church and have the Keys of the kingdom of heaven to open and shut the doores to whom they shall thinke fit or unworthy and this is the place of the Presbyters and not of the people for they are injoyned to obey their guids and to submit themselves in the Lord to what they order and appoint according to the Word of God Here we have three presidents of appeales in the mother-mother-church of Ierusalem to the Presbytery upon any abuse so that by the mouth of their witnesses out of the word of truth this truth of appeales is sufficiently confirmed And that the Presbytery at Ierusalem had plenary power over the very Apostles and could call them at any time to an accompt is manifest from the eleventh of the Acts where Peter was convented questionedbefore them and was forced to give an accompt of his going in to the Gentiles and Preaching unto them which he willingly yâ—elded unto knowing it was their place to question any yea the Presbytery in every Church could send the very Apostles Ministers to Preach in any place or city or upon any Message as we see they sent Peter and Iohn to Samaria and the Church of Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas with other Ministers to the Presbytery of Ierusalem as is evident Acts the 14. and Acts 15. and therefore all these examples sufficiently prove that all the people of every Church made their appeales to their severall Presbyteries if there arose any controversies and abuses among themselves and if there arose any difference between Church and Church or betweene Presbytery and Presbyterie about any points of Doctrine or Religion then they made their appeales for the determining of those controversies to Councells and Synods as we may see it Acts the 15. and this is one of Gods Ordinances as the Independents themselves doe acknowledge So that for the Doctrine of appeales it is so cleare that all the learned and judicious cannot doubt of it and I am most assured that those that shall but with due deliberation seriously examine the Scriptures above quoted and those that follow in this discourse for the confirmation of the same truth will wonder that any man that pretends to learning as Master Knollys doth should ever dare say that appeales cannot be made good to be according to the Scripture of truth whereas there is almost no truth in the holy Scripture more cleare and evident than this of appeales Yea this method of dealing and manner of handling of businesses of publike offences and scandals and for the redressing of them is ratified by the very light and Law of nature as we may reade in all the governments under the very Heathens and Paul made use of it by appealing from inferiour Courts to Caesars tribunall And I shall never be brought by all the arte and wit of man to beleeve that Christ hath left his Church under the New Testament in a worse condition then it was under the old where we know they had appeales from one Court to another Nay if Christians now had not the liberty of appeales in matters of conscience and Religion they should be inferior to the Pagan nations and surely Christ hath not left his Church which is his Kingdom in a worse condition then either the Iewish or Ethnicke Kingdomes were and therefore by all reason besides the Testimony of Christ Matth. the 13. and besides the Presidents I produced out of the Word of God to confirme appeales the lawfulnesse of appeales is sufficiently established and ratified So that I hope that which I have now briefly set downe may satisfie any rationall man But before I go on to prove that the people or Church have not power to judge their Ministers which is the last thing I undertake to make good I must say something by way of answer to a vaine and frivolous cavill of Master Knollys which is this If the Doctor can prove these appeales saith he I aske him whether that higher Presbytery or Councell of Divines be not as Independent as the brethren and their Churches against whom the Doctor hath written and if so then such a high Presbytery or Councell of Divines is not Gods Ordinance by the Doctors own confession and affirmation The very reading of this fond cavill had been enough for the confutation of it to any solid man and truly had not I to deale with such a trifling creature as he is in serious businesse who compts every word he scribleth an oracle I would have passed by it with silence as being nothing to the question between us and as little to his purpose as all his other wrangling is except it be to declare to all men that he knoweth not his owne principles nor no good learning But for answer all such as know any thing in the controversie betweene us and the Independents know that it is my opinion and settled beleefe that all Churches and Councels are to depend upon the Word of God and to be ruled and ordered in all their proceedings and Governments according to the direction of the same an Angel from Heaven is not be heard that speaks not according to the written Word Gal. 1. and this Word hath directed us to the law and to the testimony Isay 8. and proclamed all men that speak not according to that to be in darknesse and therefore according to this my opinion no Church or Councell in the world is Independent and therfore all such Churches and Councels as have not either precept or example for their proceedings in the ordering and governing of them out of the Word of God but follow their own vaine and idle phantasies and affect Independency in my opinion they in so ordering their Churches do not according to Gods Ordinances Now when the
Independent Governments are such they are their own inventions and that government only of the Presbyters is Gods Ordinance as having both precept and Presidents for it in Gods Word upon which they depend and this is my opinion and not that which Master Knollys would grollishly put upon me and this shall suffice for answer to that peece of non-sense of his And now I come to the last branch of his answer and that which I undertooke to make Good and prove viz. that the people and congregation in any Church have not power to judge their Ministers which Master Knollys affirmeth they have and for instance produceth the Church of Corinth and that of Colosse understanding by Church the people who he saith had power over the members miserably mistaking himself and abusing the ignorant and simple soules by it as will by and by appeare to those that can discerne things that differ or are but a little acquainted in matters of government either Ecclesiasticall or civill For if men do once but rightly understand what a Church is according to the discription of a Church as it is laid down in the New-Testament and consider withall of the parts and members of that Church which by Saint Paul is compared to the body of a man they will easily perceive that the governors and rulers are compared unto the head and all the noble parts of the body as to the eyes eares hands c. which are to guide and governe all the other members in the body and that all the other members under them are to be ordered and ruled by the head and other more noble parts and are to follow their direction so that it is in the Church of God as it is in the body of man some are to rule and others to be ruled in it and whose place it is ever to obey For none of the members of the body leave their stations unlesse they by violence be cut off as all rationall creatures do very well know For the head is ever the head the eye is ever the eye the eare is ever the eare and the hand is ever the hand c. For Saint Paul saith 1 Cor. 12. vers 27. Now yee are the body of Christ and members in particular And God hath set some in the Church first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly Teachers after that miracles then gifts of healing helps in Government diversities of tongues are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Teachers c intimating that the Apostles and Prophets and Teachers and helps in Government in the Church every of them keepes their stations to wit they that are once Apostles Teachers or Governors doe continue in the Church in their severall places ever so to be and never lose their places but alwayes to the day of their death remaine and continue still to be Apostles Prophets Teachers and Rulers according to that in the fourth of the Ephesians vers 11. Where Saint Paul saith He gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints and for the worke of the Ministry and the edifying of the body of Christ till we come all into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the sonne of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ We finde not in all the holy Scripture that any of those true Ministers were at any time degraded or lost any thing either of their Titles or of their authority but as God had put the rule and Government of the Church into their hands and had given them the power of the Keyes and made them Stewards in the Church which is his body so they were ever to be the head eyes eares and hands for the governing and well ordering of the Church We finde likewise that in every severall Church of the New-Testament there was a Presbytery ordayned as Acts the 14. c. and that the Presbyters had the Government of those severall Churches put into their hands that the people and members of those Churches were commanded to obey their Presbyters as their guides whom God had set over them Heb. 13. as Master Knollys and all the learnedst of the Independents do acknowledge We finde likewise by the practise of the Church of Jerusalem the President of all other Churches that the people there for the redressing of any abuse amongst themselves assumed not the power into their own hands but applied themselves and made their addresses and appeales to the Presbytery and that they ordered every thing according as they thought good and that the people willingly submitted themselves to the order We finde further that for all acts of government as questioning any offendoâ—s for the censuring and punishing of them for ordination of Officers and excommunication it was done either by the sole power and authority of the Apostles or by the Presbyteries of the Church and those that were in office and not by the multitude as is manifest by that in the 2. of the Cor. chap. 2. ver 6. a place so much abused by the Independents sufficient saith the Apostle to such a man is the censure which was inflicted of many So that it was not inflicted by all the people but by such only in whose hands the power lay which was the Presbytery and therfore the Apostle saith by many or of many And truly if we would but duly reade the Epistles of Saint Paul to Timothy and Titus which were writ to them and in them to all the Ministers of the New-testament in all ages to come and observe the rules set downe in them which are to continue to the ende of the World we shall finde that for all Acts of government and for the well ordering of the Church it is only committed into the hands of the Ministers and presbyters of the severall Churches through all Nations and that to them only belonged the managing of the Goverment as the rulers and Stewards of the same and that all power and authority of Government peculiarly belonged unto them and that the people had nothing to do with it but to obey Again if we look but into the seven Churches of Asia Revel 2. 2. We shall finde that all the Epistles Christ writes unto them are directed to the Angels and Ministers of those severall Churches as upon whom the Government of those Churches lay and who had both the praise of well doing and blame of any evill either committed or tolerated by them for seeing they were appointed by Christ himselfe to be the Stewards and Guides of those Churches and to be the Governours of the same all the blame of the malversation of any of the members in them is imputed unto them as if they themselves had been the cause of it as not using their Authority for the redressing of those abuses So that it is apparently evident through the whole New Testament That the Ministers and Presbyters
this truth is so well known and perceived by all such as will not wilfully blinde themselves as it cannot be denyed hourly experience furnishing men with Presidents of it For if any Delinquents be found out they are not hailed before the people but before such as are in authority there is not an ordinary Hew and Cry that is sent to any Parish but it is carryed to the Constable or his Deputy and to such in that Town or Village as are in place or authority so that the people trouble not themselves with it yea they will ordinarily say it concerneth them not it is not their place to intermeddle in the businesse of State that they affirme belonges to those that are in authority And as it is in the affaires secular and in the State so it is in the affaires of the Church those in authority in the Church are to mannage the affaires and businesses of the Church and not the people for God had appointed in all Churches in the New Testament which were but so many Corporations a standing Presbytery and Order of Ministers and Rulers in each of them in whose hands the government of them all within their severall Precincts and Jurisdictions lay the which Government they were ever to mannage and order by common consent and joynt agreement with which the people had nothing to do and with the which they ought not intermeddle for that had been to confound that Order God had established in each Church and this all well-instructed Christians knew and therefore in the Apostles times not any that I ever read of opposed that Government before Diotrephes who is blamed for this his temerity by St. John to teach all men not to do the like left they fall into the same condemnation so that they knew very well that howsoever all the Epistles of Sant Paul and the other Apostles were directed to the severall Churches of their times yet the managing of the affairs of those Churches belonged only unto the Presbyters Stewards and Angels of those respective Churches as we may see in those seven Churches of Asia where the Letters and the Epistles are directed to the Angels and Ministers of those Churches as those that had the Government of them in their hands and not to the people And so it was in the Church of Corinth a place that the Independents so much abuse Howsoever Pauls Epistles were directed to the whole Church yet the officers only and Presbyters of that Church had the managing of the whole businesse concerning the incestuous person both for the casting of him out and the taking of him in againe upon his repentance as is evident from the 2 Epistle and the second chapter where the Apostle saith sufficient to such a man is the punishment inflicted of many So that all the people did not censure him or inflict that punishment upon him but many to wit the Presbyters and those in authority in that Church And this agreeable to all reason and therefore Master Knollys is mightily mistaken in his Commentary exposition of this place and that of the Epistle to the Colossians in saying that as the Church or particular congregation of Corinth had power to judge them that were members therein 1 Cor. 5. 12. 13. and as the Church of Colosse had power to admonish Archippus Coloss 4. 17. so the Church whereof Diotrephes was a member might as warrantably admonish him These are his words in which there is a double yea a treble fallacy for first he taketh the word Church in another sense then the Scripture speaketh of it which in all the Epistles of the holy Apostles for the most part is taken collectively for a combination of many congregations under one Presbyterie within such a precinct and he onely understandeth it for a particular congregation and assembly and by this he deceiveth the reader 2ly By Church he understandeth the people the Presbyters excluded and saith that they had power to judge their Ministers whereas indeed though in all those churches there was a power yet it lay soely in the Presbyters hands and they only were invested with it and the people were ever to stand to their orders so long as they commanded in the Lord and the place of the people was to obey and therefore all that he saith about this businesse is a meere non sequiturâ—unc and this is the third error that insueth from groundlesse principles for this is not a good consequence Paul writing unto the Church of Colosse hath these words say unto Archippus that he take heed to his Ministry and writing unto the Church of Corinth the 1. and 5. saith vers 5. Deliver such a man unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh c. Ergo the people have the power in their hands over all the members of those Churches both Ministers and people This I assert doth not follow in all good reason No more then it will follow that if any Embassador should be directed to the kingdome of England now or if any Message should be sent unto any corporation of the Kingdome commanding such service from it to the State that the people in this Kingdom or the people in those corporations should intermedle in the affaires of publike concernment but all sound understanding men will say It belongeth to the great and grave Councell of the Kingdom to mannage publike affaires and to the Major and Aldermèn and the Common-councell of each Corporation to transact and order the publicke businesse and affaires and for this only reason because they are the men in those severall places that God and the people have invested with authority over them and it only belongeth unto them to order all affaires of publicke concernment who God and the people have called and appointed to this end and purpose And so it was in all the primitive and Apostolicall Churches the Epistles were writ to the churches but directed to the Angels and Ministers in them as whose place it was to watch over them for their good and who only had the power of the Keyes to bind and loose to cast out and take in according to Divine authority Yea all the world knowes that God never gave the Keyes to the people in any Church but to the Ministers therefore the authority of order and jurisdiction only belongeth to the Ministers and presbyters in every Church now when Master Knollys by Church understandeth a particular congregation or assembly and the people in it and not the Presbyteries in every Church he is much mistaken in his Commentary exposition and abuseth not only himself but all those poore deluded people that follow him Yea he destroyeth his own principles and those of the congregationall way for both he himselfe and I. S. do acknowledge That the Government lay in the Presbyters hands in every church Master Knollys his words to this purpose I have often ciâ—ed before and I. S. his words are these page 11. in asserting that the
Persbyters did rule the Church at Ierusalem and ordinarily other Churches whom do you hit saith he in his answer to me Sure not the Independents as you call them we grant it is their part to rule thus he but of these words in their due place In the meane time we may take notice that they acknowledge that the government of those severall Churches lay in the Presbyters hands who only had the ordering of the affaires of those Churches as the Stewards over them and whose place it was to receive any accusations and examine matters of scandall and to proceede against offenders by censâ—res and punishments upon evidence and proofe made against them as the Epistles of Paul to Timothy and Titus do sufficiently evince And therefore it is not only against the Word of God but their own principles to invest the people with power and authority over their Ministers and their fellow members as to censure them or to exercise any Act of Government over them Neither doth Saint Paul in writing unto the Colossians and bidding them say to Archippus that he take heede to his ministry and in writing unto the Corinthians that they should cast out the incestuous person investe the people in either of those Churches with power and authority over either Presbyters or their fellow members For the power of reproofe and censure with authority belongs primarily and principally to the Pastors and Presbyters in every Church as the Epistles of Paul to Timothy and Titus shew in the which all Ministers are taught their duty in their severall places who to admonish and how who to ordaine and who to cast out and how to exercise all other Acts of government as those of ordination excommunication and censure c. and all Ministers are to performe their offices judicially authoritatively not by way of charity which any Christian upon just occasion observing all the vitall circumstances of a well ordered reproofe and action as of time place and persons may do for there is a very great difference between the admonition of the Ministers and that of the people which lyeth in this that the Ministers doe what they doe in the Church as Officers and Magistrates and men in place and power and the people do it by way of charity and love and only out of Christian duty and not with any authority they have over the people and if their brethren will not heare them they can goe no farther then to take one or two more with them and if they will not heare them then to refer it unto the Church to tell and informe their severall Presbyteriâ—s of it the people are confined within these limets only and are not to exceede and go out of these bounds Whereas the Prâ—sbyters and Ministers by their place have the power in their hands to order them and censure them which the people have not Neither with any good reason will it follow if any private Christian may admonish a Minister failing in his duty that he hath power and authority over him for this one Member and Brother hath not over another as having nothing to do with another mans servant as Saint Paul sufficiently declareth in the fourteenth chapter of his Epistle to the Romans and although all Christians are commanded Coloss the 3. and in divers other places to admonish one another yet this proves not that they have rule power and authority over them because the Scripture witnesseth the contrary But the Ministers and Preachers of the Word they are to rebuke to exhort and admonish and censure as Embassadours Stewards and Governours appointed by God himselfe over them for this very purpose and end not onely to beseech and intreate them but if they be refractory and disorderly to punish and censure them and that by their place as they are officers and as they have received the Keyes whereas other Christians do their duty onely out of love as Brethren and not as Magistrates So that what the people do either in admonishing or exhorting it is out of charity or what they do in choosing of officers or casting out of offenders out of the Church it is either by denomination of them or in approving and assenting unto what the Presbytery doth as the Saints shall judge the earth so that it is not in the peoples power to hinder the casting out of any offender if he be proved scandalous or of receiving any into the Church or into any office of the same if they be thought fit and worthy of it for their gifts and graces for they have no power to do any of these things for these are all actions of such as are in authority and have the power of ordering things in their hands which I affirme was never given to the people And therefore those places quoted by Mr Knollys to prove the authority of the people over either their Ministers or Fellow-members are not for his purpose as bâ—ing misapplyed and abused as they are daily by the Independent Brethren So that to all rationall and understanding men from this reproofe of Diotrephes given by S. Iohn and this his censuring of him For usurping sole authority to himselfe and prating malicious words against Saint Iohn and the Presbyters of that Church he writeth to These two conclusions do necessarily follow The first That all such as affect an absolute jurisdiction in every particular congregation within it selfe Independent without any reference or relation to a Councell or Colledge of Presbyters and do speak malicious wordes against their Fellow-ministers and Presbyters and do cast out whom they please and bring in whom they will at pleasure upon their own termes and do rule after an arbitrary way all such violate the Ordinance of God and oppose that Government that he hath established in all churches by his blessed word and are guilty of the same crime that Diotrephes was and if they repent not will be severely punished for it but all the Brethren of the Congregationall way are such The second is this That all such Ministers and Congregations as give the authority and power of ruling and ordering the affaires of the Church into the hands of the people either wholly excluding the Ministers or joyning the people with them in the Government of the Church they thus leaving their station and calling wherein they were called are prevaricators and offenders against divine institution For God hath given the keyes the power of order and jurisdiction to the Ministers and Presbyters only and injoyned the people to obey them But such are all the Ministers and Assemblies of the congregationall way as leaving their station and calling wherein they were called Ergo they are all prevaricators and offenders against divine institution And thus much I thought fit by way of answer to reply unto all that Mr Knollys had to say against my argument drawn from Diotrephes and in defence of their congregationall practices There yet remaines one whibling cavill more in this his answer
that I may not passe by lest he should glory I could not answer it I will therefore say something to that and conclude this point and then go on to all his other fond answers to such arguments as he thought himselfe best able to incounter with His words are these in the conclusion of his Babble If saith he nothing of publike concernment ought to be done and transacted without the joynt mutual agreement and common consent of the Presbytery John the Presbyter would not have transgressed so farr as to take upon himselfe this authority over Diotrephes to tell the Church of his faults and to say he would remember him and sharply reprove him and teach him to prate against the Presbytery with malicious words which belonged to the Court and Common-councell of Presbyters Thus Mr Knollys rather chatters than disputes in making such an inference from his own conceit And therefore for Answer let Mr Knollys know that there was no transgression in Saint Iohn against the Presbyters in taking such authority upon himselfe for S. John was an Apostle and an universall Pastor tyed to no one place or flock but had the same power and authority that Paul and all the other Apostles had over all the Churches the care of which lay primarily and principally upon them who were immediately inspired by God and in all their preachings and writings followed the dictates of his holy Spirit who spake in and by them so that whatsoever they taught or writ was to be the rule of all mens thoughts words actions and governments and it was their place to give Laws unto all Churches and Ministers in them what they should do in the ordering and governing of the same and therefore S. John had no lesse authority and power over this Church wherein Diotrephes was an Elder and in and over all other Churches then S. Paul and all the other Apostles had in all Churches Now if S. Paul could give a Law unto the Church of Corinth For the casting out of the Incestuous person and for the carrying of themselves with Order and Decency in their Assemblies and sharply reproove offenders in that Church and if all the other Apostles did the like and took such Authority upon them over all the members of those severall Churches and that without any transgression of any divine institution but with the very good liking and allowance of God himselfe who writ the Commandements of the Lord to all the Churches then I say Saint Iohn transgressed not at all in using his authority and power given him of God over Diotrephes in telling the Church of his faults and saying He would remember him and sharply reprove him for this he might well do by his sole Authority without any offence as he was an Apostle for what he did he did by immediate Revelation and had a warrant for it from Christ himselfe who sent his spirit to lead him into all truth And therefore it is a ridiculous if not an impious thing in Master Knollys to draw such an inference from a phantasie of his own brain in that he makes no difference between Saint Iohn and another ordinary Presbyter and Minister and would make that an offence which was none and infer that Saint Iohn took more upon him than he ought Besides it had been no transgression in any other Presbyter if he had writ so to any Presbytery under which he had been a fellow Presbyter to inform them of any miscarriage in either Pastor or member of that Church wherein he was an Elder and if he had said If I come I will remember his deeds c. For in his so speaking he would assume no more authority to himselfe then became a Presbyter to take upon him as both to witnesse to a truth and to give in evidence of what he knew of such a man to his fellow judges and then to leave it to the judgement of the Presbytery and Common Councell of Elders which Saint Iohn did whose place it was to censure such an offender and in his so doing he should no way impeach the power and authority of the Court or Common councell of Presbyters but rather ratifie and confirme it as all learned men will gather For by such words he declareth that there is a standing Court or Councell there where offenders are both to be questioned and censured for such an expression If I come I will remember his deeds sufficiently declareth that there was power in their hands and manifesteth that he was a judge there among the rest who with others had the hearing of all causes there and that all businesses of publike concernment ought to be done and transacted by the mutuall and joynt accord and agreement of the Presbytery and not to be managed by any one singly by himself or by the people whom God had never given the Keyes unto nor the power of rule and Government This I affirme will necessarily ensue and follow and not that which Mr Knollys vainly intimateth And I am confident that any judicious Christian upon due deliberation will say the same and will conclude That Saint Iohn in his so writing was no offender though all things of publike concernment in the Church were ever to be transacted by the joynt agreement and common consent of the Presbytery So that all men that are judicious may plainly behold the futility in both the answers and cavills of this man and well perceive that he was never cut out for a disputant or ever fitted for Government in church or State who if he might have his own minde would bring in a confusion in both and violate all order divine and humane and make the head the foot and the foot the head And truly if a man would but consider the manner of Government in their seven new Churches or rather seventy for every ten or twelve of them prove a Church he should find in them all so much disorder and discrepancy amongst them and yet every one of them pretending Divine authority for its particular government as he would advisedly conclude That God was never the author of them for God is a God of order and not of confusion for never since the world began was there such practiceâ— in any Christian Churches as are to be found in theirs And to speake the truth they are a meere mockery of all government for every one of those severall Churches be they never so slender and small assumes an absolute soveranity unto themselves Independent from all other Churches and Presbytries from the which there is no appeale be one never so much wronged And they are as so many free States and republicks every one of them ruling within themselves as absolute Magistracies And therefore upon all occasions if any difference arise betweene member and member in those Churches or betweene Church and Church as often they do as other Countries and Common-weales send their Embassadours to each other upon any difference or about states affayres
him up upon his throne but by this meanes they dis-throne him And therefore J. S. and all those of his fraternity that not onely unchristian and unchurch all those that were baptized by Iohn the Baptist and Christs Apostles before Christs death but at this day unchurch and unchristian all Christians and Churches but their own are guilty of high contumacy against the King of Saints and King of Kings and are most injurious to all their christian Brethren And truly there cannot be found scarse in the world such an example of temerity and unadvised rashnesse and want of charity and common wisdome as is every day to be observed amongst the Independents who are ever talking of a Church mould after the New Testament forme and excluding all from being true Churches that are not so moulded and yet never tell us what it is For in the holy Scripture we have never read of any other Church mould or of any New Testament forme but of publishing the Gospel and of preaching faith and repentance and of yeelding obedience unto it and of beleeving and repenting and being baptized which both John the Baptist and all Christs Disciples and the blessed Apostles and all the faithfull Ministers of the Gospel had a commission to do and a command withall and a blessing annexed unto it that whosoever did repent beleeve and was baptized should not onely be admitted a visible member of the catholicke visible Church but should be saved The words of our Saviour Christ unto his Disciples Marke 16. ver 15 16. are these Go saith he into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature he that beleeveth and is baptized shall be saved but he that beleeveth not shall be damned Out of the which words and commission of our Saviour I evidently gather that when John the Baptist and Christs Disciples in their severall ministryes went according to their commission preaching from place to place and from city to city and publishing the glad tydings of the kingdom of the Messiah and baptizing such as beleeved they cast them into a Church mould after the New Testament forme and therefore made them all members not onely of the Catholique visible Church but of all those severall particular Churches and Synagogues through all the cities of Judaea and through the world where they preached the Gospel as well as at Ierusalem and that as many of Ierusalem as were baptized by Iohn and Christs Disciples were all members of that Church and as truly moulded into a Church mould after the New Testament forme and made as reall members and free denizons of Christs Kingdome as any of the new congregations at this day unlesse any will think and beleeve that John the Baptist and the blessed Apostles were ignorant how to gather Churches and nescient of the right mould and forme of the New Testament churches and had not learned their lesson so well as our Independent Ministers which were a piece of impiety and horrid wickednesse to affirme For then it would follow that those that were baptized by Iohn and by the Apostles and Christs seventy Disciples were never saved For I. S. denyes they were Christians and that they were cast into a church mould after the New Testament forme or members of the christian church and therefore by consequent they were in the state of damnation But if all this be wickednesse so much as to think then there is a way yet to Heaven and that a safe one which the Independents are ignorant of for they preach up their way as the narrow way to heaven proclaiming all those that are out of it to be enemies of Jesus Christ and his kingdome and in the state of perdition and yet Iohn the Baptist was ignorant of their way and cast not his Disciples into their mould and yet they went safely to the Kingdome of heaven yea they entred into it by violence as our Saviour speaketh And therefore by this that I have now said by way of answer all men may see the futility and impiety of I. S. and how groundlesse all his arguments are and may very well conclude That all those that were baptized by John the Baptist and by Christs Disciples before his death were members of Christs Church and true beleevers and that as many of them as came from Jerusalem were members of that church and they may also from the foregoing arguments gather That those that came out of Jerusalem to his baptism were in such multitudes for all Ierusalem went out unto him and were baptized as they could not all possibly meet in any one place or congregation or a few therfore I am confident that all those that shall read both what Mr Knollys and I. S. have fondly and impiously replyed to my arguments and what by way of answer I have here set down will adjudge that such unworthy wranglers and cavillers as these are ought by their severall Churches to be severely censur'd for this their ignorance and impiety And this shall serve to have replyed to these their exceptions against my first arguments concerning the multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptist I shall answer to all their other severall cavills in their due places I will now therefore go on to shew the increase of beleevers that were made by the miracles and preaching both of Christ and his Apostles and from the severall places out of the holy Scripture frame my arguments as out of the former to prove the same conclusion John the 4. ver 1 2. Now when the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Iesus made and baptized more Disciples then Iohn though Iesus himselfe baptized not but his Disciples Here observe that where there was a mistake in the relation there the Evangelist forthwith shews it to rectifie mens understandings as where it was reported that Christ baptized he shewes it was a mistake for his Disciples onely baptized but where it is said that Iesus made more Disciples then Iohn that is taken pro confesso and it was true for Iohn himselfe in the 3. chapter ver 30. had said He must increase but I must decrease Christ therefore made many more Disciples and Beleevers then Iohn and added dayly to the church that was then in Jerusalem such as should be saved for he came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel and he received all that came to him John the 6. 37. And as many as received him to them he gave power to become the sonnes of God even to them that beleeve upon his name John 1. 12. And these were infinite multitudes as we shall see by and by In Iohn the 7. 31. it is said that many of the people of Ierusalem beleeved on him And verse the 40. they said of a truth this is that Prophet And in the same chapter when the high Preists sent the officers to apprehend Christ and returning without him and the high Priests demanding the reason why they had not brought him
I am most confident will by and by evidently appeare though all the former Arguments to the contrary should not so much as be thought of and withall it will also be obvious to any judicious man that in all respects their Argument makes much against themselves For if I should grant unto them That at this instant of time that that place speakes of the whole Church in Jerusalem or the number then of Beleevers were no more but that one place might have contained them all for the enjoying of all Ordinances which I cannot doe for innumerable reasons and some of them above specified yet it doth not follow nor evince that after there were daily such additions of Believers and such multitudes of new Converts added unto the Church that then also one place or roome could containe them all and that they might still meet in one Congregation and all together partake in all acts of worship For there is a vast difference betweene one hundred and twenty names for there was no more in this assembly and in many ten thousands which all the World knowes could not bee contained in any one place of Jerusalem to communicate in all the Ordinances though that place had equalized the most magnificent Structure that ever the World yet saw especially they could not have all met there to edification for they could not have all heard and understood and wee know that in the Church all must be done to edification and this would rather have hindred the mutuall edification of the assembly and have brought a confusion rather then any profit or benefit unto them But the truth is the number of names here spoken of if wee will goe to the genuine interpretation of the place not to speake of the universall consent of all the learned Interpreters who gather that in this assembly the seventy Disciples the Lord Jesus sent out to preach through all Judes and all those other Ministers of the Gospel that had beene Christs and Saint Iohn the Baptists Disciples every one of the which was thought fit for learning and divine knowledge to succeed Iudas in his Apostleship and to be a Disciple all these or most of them or such like were those that are included in the number of names