of its truth in so farre as authority signifieth an excellency or dignity in this truth for which it should be beleeved because of the excellency of the Author who is God who cannot erre by reason of the infallibity of his knowledge or verity or lead others into errour because of the goodnesse of his will or veracity but to say that these passages signifie any authority whereof wee speake i. e. either power to judge to command or to inflict spirituall punishments no reasonable man can thinke it that knoweth what power or authority meaneth 1. For the acts of power are either imperative or executive or some other like whereof none is here expressed 2. These sentences are all meerly â—â—â—ntiative which formally are not authoritative or of power 3. Authority belongeth rather adfacultatem actum imperantem quam ad elicientem as this here 4. The acts of power perse of themselves belong to the will and not to the understanding as these here expressed 5. They are not expressed by Verbes of the Indicative or Optative but of the Imperative mood not in this fashion this should be done oh that this were done but in this do this whereunto sometimes are annexed promises in case of obedience sometimes comminations in case of disobedience after which followeth the performance or execution viz. actuall recompence or punishment 6. If an admonition a protestation or a non-communion be authority then every beggar hath this authority yea as much as all the Churches of the world as it followeth upon the Commissioners Argument who say that every neighbour should have it who hath no more authority over us then we over them The Doctor also is mightily mistaken in limiting actus imperatos to the outward carriage for many of the acts of the minde will and sensitive appetite are imperati as when I will understand or willingly understand when I will my selfe to will and in vertue of that will I will Item when I will apply my appetite to good and command it to doe good No lesse a fault is it in him to take actum elicitum in the same latitude with the actions of the minde for some of them are meerly eliciti others meerly imperati We grant you that to bee most valid that convinceth and conquers actus elicitos i. e. as yee take it the inward actions rather then that which doth only manacle and constraine actus imperatos the outward carriage But we deny you that Ecclesiasticall Discipline much lesse your admonition c. can doe it for that is a work of Gods Almighty power only hee onely who created all things can create new hearts in us and he onely who knoweth mens hearts can perswade them the voice of the Minister only soundeth externally in our cares but Gods Spirit to the heart Neither is it the internall or neerest ayme of Discipline or Church Government to worke upon or rule the mind which is not knowne to the Church or Church Governours but to procure the externall peace of the Church which may be obtained the minde remaining still unconvinced Aliud est esse bonum Christianum aliud bonum civem in Ecclesia The other Objection is That by this authority and order of Government one Church hath power over another which is contrary to that liberty and equality Christ bath endowed his Church with and is no other but a new Prelaticall dominion set over the Churches of Christ The Commissioners answer denying that by their Government any particular Church can judge another but that the whole Representative Church in vertue of its aggregative power judgeth of them all which they illustrate very prettily and judiciously by examples taken from the parts of a mans body the Members of a Parliament and Townes and Cities Neither is it a Prelaticall domination as they calumniate it for that of Prelates is extrinsecall to particular Churches as being inclosed in their Metropolitane Church which is extrinsecall to the particular Churches as not compounded of any of their members per se particularly called thereunto but that of our Presbyteries and such like Ecclesiasticall Senates is intrinsecall to every particular Church being compounded of their organicall parts or Ministers in vertue of their generall vocation and particular mission admission or election particularly called thereunto But here I pray the Reader to consider the Commissioners most cleare and judicious expressions which being compared with this well-willers reply will sufficiently refute all he saith Our Well-willer replieth Sure your Lawes doe impose that one Congregation shall be subject to the Elders suppose of twenty Congregations And the Authority of nineteen of them is as Collaterall Answ Note here fallaciam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a captious Argument whereby he proves one thing for another that which is not in question for that which is in question viz. an Authority that is as collaterall in stead of an Authority that is collaterall which is an Epidemicall sicknesse in independent Divinity 2. I answer that the Elders of particular Congregations who sit in Classes and Synods may be considered two wayes 1. Materially as men who are Elders 2. Formally in quality of Elders and then againe either 1. in quality of particular Elders tied to such a particular Church in vertue of their particular Mission Admission or Election made by such a particular Church or 2. in quality of Elders in generall called to feed the whole Church in vertue of their generall vocation which againe as the Author of the Observations and Annotations told you may either be considered in actu signato when only it is signified to belong to their Charge before they exercise it or in actu exercito when in vertue of some Mission Admisson and particular Commission they may exercise it If the Elders of particular Churches be considered materially only they are not so much as formally Elders If 2. formally in quality of particular Elders tied to a particular Church they have not power to reed any Church but heir owne particular Church And in this sense it is an untruth that any one Congregation is subject to nineteene or twenty particular Congregations Yea they are so far from this disorder and confusion that the Pastour of one Congregation cannot preach in another without the consent of that particular Congregation as the Rules and Lawes of our Ecclesiasticall Discipline may 〈…〉 if they be considered 3. In vertue of their 〈…〉 ll vâ—â—â—â—ion they have power to rule the Church in generall and may actually doe it in Synods in acta signate if they be considered precisely before their particular mission and commission and in actu exercito i. e they may exercise it actually after their particular commission their mistion from their particular Representative Church and admission into the Representative or Collective Body or Association and Representation of many particular Churches whether Clasicall or Synodall Master Well-willer replyes that the Congregations every one chose their owne Officers to rule ever
answereth not a word to the number of Church Officers or to their justification against the aspersions laid upon them for Lay Elders or their accusation against the Independents because of their Laymen Preachers and Prophets c. All this he passeth over by a Doctorall priviledge hic ubique terrarum tacendi Onely he scratcheth at the proofe they bring for Presbyteries Classes and Synods but refuteth it not no more then hee doth the Arguments brought by Master Rhetherford Guelaspe and others taken from Gods Attributes as 1. from his Goodnesse 2. Wisedome 3. Justice 4. Providence 5. from the nature of the Church c. Item from the Law of Nature 6. from sundry inconveniences 7. From the order established in the Church of the Jewes 8. From the practice of the Church in the times of the Apostles 9. From Christs institution in the New Testament 10. From parity of reason or proportion betwixt a Parishionall Session or Consistory and six or seven persons in the reall Church thereof and a combined Presbytery as ye call it and every one of the Churches peradventure two or three or ten thousand Parishionall Consistories subject thereunto 11. From the ends of the Church 12. her Conservation Peace c. whereof ye may happily heare more within a few dayes In the meane time I pray you answer to what is written and not to clude such arguments with tales at Assizes Wooll-packes Cannon-shot Bullets Batteries and termes of military Discipline wherewith we are not so well acquainted P. 10. § 3. Here it seemeth that this Doctor would excuse the Apologizers in saying that they give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of the Presbytertall gevernment will suffer them to yeeld As if it were rather said by way of retaliation and in anger then in truth because as he saith the peace-plea calleth them Independents If it be so 1. their passion is worthy of the others compassion 2. But this should not have made them to offend all the Reformed Churches and especially their Benefactors in the Netherlands which are all Presbyterians 3. All comparisons are also odious especially amongst men well bred 4. And yet howsoever they hate the name yet they love dearely the thing signified by the name and will depend of no Ecclesiasticall Judicatory yea as the Author of the Observations and Annotations sheweth clearly not upon all the Churches of the world and yet will that their Congregations depend of themselves who yet will depend upon no men in spirituall power or authority But the Doctor saith If upon a grosse errour of another Church they viz. Independent Churches dare exercise only a non communion with it then there is more left for the Magistrate to doe then when you have excommunicated it Answ In excommunicating a private person or a particular Church when it can be done with lesse hurt to the Church then is the good included therein it leaveth all to be done by the Magistrate that God has ordained him to doe viz. in politicall government Non auferet mortalia quiregna dat coelestia Neither requireth the godly Magistrate our King or this Parliament any more but ye are importune who will give him more then he requireth of you or then either God or the Magistrate hath commanded you The French say of such men Il est valet du Diable ilfait plus que commandement I will not here insist upon your impertinency in denying the name of excommunication to non communion and that great pride in not submitting the judgement of five or six some times idle yea oftentimes wicked felllowes to the judgement of all the Divines and Churches of the world in case they should dogmatise and sustein the most damnable heresies of the world and yet unto their judgement however so contemptible a number ye will submit the judgement of all their Congregation amounting peradventure to the number of many hundreds it may be better men then themselves Neither is it enough to leave it to the Civill Magistrate for his power is not spirituall God hath given an intrinsecall power to the Church sufficient for its spirituall end the Civill Magistrate may be a Pagan an Antichristian Christian an externall Christian but an inward enemy to the Church he may be negligent in his charge c. and is it credible that in such cases God hath instituted no Discipline or Government to take order with offenders But of this I need not to say any thing this evasion being so well so evidently and briefly refuted in the Commissioners own words which I pray the Reader to consider p. 21.22 if it please the Reader he may have sundry reasons against this opinion in the considerations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration It is an untruth also that the Doctor presupposeth here viz. that a Classicall Presbyterie is made up of many Ministers and Lay men in the Kingdome of Scotland or among other Protestants And false againe that their Assemblies are made up of persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly civill or that they there rule persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly Civill we say that there can be no such persons for howsoever one person may have one charge Ecclesiasticall and another secular or Civill yet is he not therefore a mixt person neither be these severall charges mixt but distinguish'd in him fince of the two there resu'teth not any third Charge compounded of both as in mixtions but he exercises them both distinctly and severally in such a fashion that the one never concurreth to the function and operation of the other By the same reason it should follow that the divers faculties of the soule as the understanding expulsive facultie in a man should be mixt together since they be both in one soule as the most part of Philosophers hold When a States-man sitteth as a member of an Ecclesiasticall Assembly he sitteth no wayes as a States-man but as a Church-man neither judgeth he a State-man or secular person in qualitie of a States-man or of a secular person but in qualitie of a member of the Church So they judge not of civill matters formally as they are subject to the Civill Magistrates authority but materially in so far as they are subject to a spirituall formality or conduce to a spirituall end under the which notion they belong not ordinarily to the Civill Magistrate or per se intrinscce but per accidens extrinsece as all Orthodox Divines of the Reformed Churches do teach But this is not all for sundry of the Independents have told us that the Civill Magistrate according to Gods Word cannot punish any man for matters of Religion how abominable soever his opinions be P. 11. and 12. the Doctor will not answer because he hath not the Books at hand and so shifts over the argument What he saith of Aerius who held out against Bishops as our Reformed Churches doe is not to the purpose No more is this That Councells may erre
shall he not be excommunicated for it shall his ignorance excuse him is not his ignorance a sin and especially when it is concomitant or subsequent to some other sinne or action of the will when he has procured it to himselfe or when he used not morall diligence enough to chase it away shall or can the ignorance of the Law or of his duty which hee is bound to know excuse him or free him from excommunication Is not that Socinianisme Arminianisme judge ye Master Doctor and answer not with complaints lamentable Interjections as if you would rather be pitied then bound to prove any thing ye say pay us not with generalities and Individuum vagums but signatums Answer I pray you to the point All the authority that this Master Doctor Well-willer can bring for himselfe p. 11. and 12. is a Morellus and some other excommunicated Ministers in France which yet he hath borrowed from the cleared Reformation As for that which he saith p. 13. § 2. that a Bishop is a Presbytery contracted and a Presbytery a Bishop diffused 1. It is but one of the Separatists ordinary jeeres against Presbyterian Government 2. They prove it not 3. The Commissioners answer it p. 25. 4. And if it were so yet Presbyterian Aristocracie should bee admitted since it is Gods ordinance but nor Episcopacy since it is not Gods ordinance 5. Amongst the Helvetians if one man should goe and contrive into his owne person all the authority which is diffused amongst all the Rulers there thinke you that they would endure him or rather not put him to death as a Tyrant and a Traytor according to his demerits The very contrivance of authority into one person which God hath diffused in many is unjust and tyrannicall in Gods Church But the Doctor objecteth that in forbearing Excommunication I beleeve he understandeth the greater they leave more to the Magistrate then the Presbyterie doth Answ This the Doctor saith but proveth it not and therefore we deny it with the like facility that he propoundeth it our reason is because when a man is excommunicated the Civill Magistrate ceaseth not for all that to punish him civilly for the Presbyterie by excommunication exileth or casteth him out of the Church society notwithstanding which he remaineth in the State society and if his sinne be against the State and deserve it the Magistrate may exile him and cast him out of the State society or of the Kingdome but not out of the Church no more then the Church may cast him out of the Kingdom As for your comparisons in saying that it is not an English heart that speaketh so it is but a sophisticall evasion seditiously to clude their argument whereunto you cannot bring so much as a probable solution so you grant what they say Neither is our dispute here about English Scots or French but about Christian hearts and consciences It is a shame to an English man to be Author of Schisme in his owne Country when Strangers imploy all their endeavours for union and peace both in Church and Common-wealth But this I leave and pray you to tell us what ye give more to the Civill Magistrate then we whether it be an Ecclesiasticall or Civill power and wherein whether to judge in matter of Doctrine or Discipline Remember Sir that in speaking of New England P. 8. you give them nothing else but Gods word for Church Government and the Kings patent for what they did in Policie and tell us if ever they followed the Kings or his Councels directions in Church Policie Item tell us whether it is the Civill Magistrate or the Church Officers part to erect Church Government and to make the Lawes thereof to judge according to the same and to put them in execution c Here he telleth us also or objecteth that Excommunication hath need of better grounds then mens sinning of simplicity or ignorance Answ So the ignorance of Jesus Christ and denying of his merits should not incur the sentence of Excommunication Hee objecteth that the punishment of Excommunication for small faults will make the punishment at last small in the eyes of men Answ It is true but is it the doctrine of the Reformed Churches that it should be inflicted for small faults But to cleare more this matter two things are needfull to be expounded the first is what the Independents understand by great sinnes the second what they understand by the parties knowne light thirdly what by Christianity fourthly what by common received practices of Christianity fiftly what by the Church As for the first a sinne may be great either quoad essentiam or quoad entitatem according to its essence or entity or as it were its quantity That sinne is said to be greater then another according to its essence the species whereof degenerateth most from the divine Rule of Gods Law such as be the sins that are greatest in regard of their object so it is a greater sinne to offend God then man because it includeth in it selfe a greater objective deformity then the other But a sinne is greater then another according to its entity or quantity that has greater extension intension or duration i. e. more parts more degrees and of a longer continuance then another By extension or more parts I understand either objective or formall parts viz. when a sinne is committed against more persons as the sinne committed against twenty is greater then that committed against two or has more materiall objects as when one stealeth more money viz. two pound it is a greater finne then to steale two pence So it is a greater sinne in respect of the formall perts or acts wherein formally sin consifteth if they be taken in concreto when a man returneth oftentimes to the same sinne as hee who stealeth ten times is a farre greater sinner then he that stealeth but only once In respect of the intention or degrees of sinne that sinne is greater then another wherein there be more degrees as when it is committed more willingly with greaterliberty with greater violence with greater knowledge Item by him that hath greater helpes of grace or of nature to resist it and to produce the opposite effects of vertue Finally that sin is greater then another in duration that continueth longer So a sin may be greater then another quoad essentiam and lesse quoadentitatem or essentially greater but entitatively or in quantity lesse then another and on the contrary greater then another quoad entitatem or in regard of its quantity but not greater essentially For example if a man sin against the precepts of the first Table in not loving God with all his heart be sory therefore and against his Father not onely in not loving him as himselfe but also in abusing him willingly and offering him violence without any remorse of conscience the first sinne is greater essentialiter but the last is greater entitativè so some Schoolemen say that faith is more certaine then any
naturall science quoad essentiam but that naturall sciences and the habitudes of naturall principles are more certaine quoad entitatem and this distinction being observed it may so fall out that a sin that is greater essentially may not deserve Excommunication and that which is lesse deserve it so that this Maxime of the Independenters will not hold universally As for the parties known light or knowledge it is either Speculative which of it self directeth not the will in its practises or actions as to know that there is three Persons in the Trinity or Practicall which directeth the Will in its actions in dictating unto it to doe good and to flie evill This is either Generall as in generall to know that good should be done or Particular as when it dictates that this good should be done and then either it is Practicall in part or imperfect or altogether absolutely and perfectly which when the thing that is to be done being well examined according to its substance and all its circumstances it dictates that it should be done here in this place by me in this time notwithstanding this opposition c. and this ordinarily in the Schooles is called cognitio practicè practica a knowledge practically practicall i.e. altogether practical Now I desire to know of which of these severall sorts of light or of knowledge of the Partie this Doctor speaketh otherwise we cannot understand him In the 3. and 5. difficultie we wish that our Brethren would declare unto us whether by Christianity and the Church they understand all those who professe Christianitie in name or those only who professe it really and in effect and then whether all those who hold their fundamentalia or Essentialia only or if they will them not to stand in meere fundamentall points but also require that they passe unto their Superstructories and how farre item that they would distinguish between their fundamentall and superstructory points in Doctrine and in manners for this is the whole foundation and ground of this their debate otherwise all that they say is but so many evasions and we cannot know wherein they dissent from us or what they would be at Item whether by the word Church they understand any Church or multitude that layes claime to this name or the true Church or the pure Church and then whether pure in their Fundamentalia only or also in their Superstructories As for the 4. Difficulty Common received practises in Christianitie are of as large an extent as Christianity or the Christian Church and may signifie practises common to all Churches either nominally or really or common to the only reall and true Christian Churches either in fundamentall points only or also in Superstructories or common to all pure Churches only The Doctor then and his Sect to the end they may be understood by us whom they oppose must clearely expound us what they meane by these words and expressions But to cut off all sort of Sophistication and to bring them to the point I will presse and urge them more closely in this fashion Either our Brethren in this point about Sinne and Sinners who are the adequate object of Excommunication agree with us or disagree from us if they grant the first what needeth all this dispute and contentiones they fight but with their owne shadow if the second let them shew us wherein we disagree and either we shall give them sufficient satisfaction or render our selves to the 〈◊〉 in case we be gone astray from it But to generalities we cannot answer Neither is it Christianly done by pretended Reformed and Reformers to cast such generall filthy aspersions upon all the Reformed Churches when as they can particularize nothing at all The Lord lay it not unto their charge in that great day when all such captions and sophistications shall be in no request There be two maine objections which ordinarily the Independents propound against the Government of all the Reformed Churches and namely of that of Scotland The Commissioners from pag. 2. § 2. to the end of their Booke propound them in as great force as possibly they can have and dissolve them both so strongly and evidently that it is a wonder how this Well-willer had any stomach to reply The Doctor also bringeth them from p. 14. § 2. to the end of his booke where he travaileth so slenderly to justifie them that he seemeth willingly desirous to be condemned onely rather then to be thought a desertor of the cause he would rather answer impertinently then to quit his Brethren The first argument put in forme will be thus Where there is or may be exhortation of partioular Churches one to another and protestation of one against another and the withdrawing of Communion one from another especially when the Magistrate interposeth his power there the Authoritative power of Presbyteries and Synods is not necessary But in the Church of God or Militant Church there is or may be exhortation of particular Churches c. Ergo In the Church of God or Militant Church the Authoritative power of Presbyteries and Synods is not necessary The Assumption is certain The proofe of the Connexion of the first Proposition may be thus Where there is a sufficient remedy and no lesse effectuall against all offences then the Authoritative power of Presbyteries and Synods or of Excommunication there an authoritative power of Presbyteries and Synods or of Excommunication is not necessary But where there is or may be Exhortation of particucular Churches c. there is a sufficient remedy and no lesse effectuall against all offences then the Authoritative power of Presbyteries Synods or of Excommunication Ergo Where there is or may be Exhortation of particular Churches c. there is no need of the Authoritative power of Presbyteries Synods or of Excommunication They prove the Assumption here for he who will or dare condemne the one will not care for the other unlesse the Magistrates Authoritie intervene Answ The Commissioners answer 1. that this Argument supposeth an extraordinary Case which hath never fallen out in the Church of Scotland or any other Reformed Churches except those of the Separation who propound the Argument viz. the pronouncing of non-communion or excommunication against a whole Church and we hope such a case never shall fall out Now lawes are made for cases that be ordinary and not for these that are extraordinary The Doctor replies that they speake not one word to extenuate the Authority of Synods Rep. But in depriving them of their Authoritative power which is their forme they extenuate their Authority yea they destroy their essence for without an authoritative power they sit in quality of private persons onely or of Ministers gathered together by chance or otherwayes and not in quality of Synods or rather as the Commissioners answer most judiciously and clearely In this Exhortation c. there is no more to be found then one particular member may do against another which yet is acknowledged to
be insufficient for removing of offences unlesse the Authority of the Church of which both of them are members shall intervene The Doctor replieth that besides Exhortations Protestations and non-communion they professo themselves ever to submit and to have recourse to the Civill Magistrate Inst This profession of submission is either voluntary depending of their own free will or by necessity of obligation whereunto they are subject by Law If they chose the first it is no more then a number of Watermen Tinkers and Coblers may doe of them-selves by a particular convention 2. It is not juris divini as they pretend their Government to be but humani depending of their own fancy And to professe themselves to be willing to have recourse to the civill Magistrate it is not at all to the purpose but most absurd 1. for that power of the Clvill Magistrate is not intrinsecall but extrinsecall unto the Church but we speake only of the power that is intrinsecall and proper to the Church and so must our Brethren also if they will speake rationally 2. In so doing they make the Civill Magistrate Judge of Ecclesiasticall controversies in Doctrine and Discipline and Head of the Church c. which cannot hold when he is an Infidell an Antichristian c. whereof see more in the Commissioners answer and in the Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration 3. In so doing ye make the Churcle power subordinate to Civill power which cannot be for subordination is betwixt things of the same kinde or sort but such are not Civill and Ecclesiasticall power which are opposite or rather contradistinguished or differenced one from another as things destinated to or different ends the one spirituall and the othertemporall 2. He complaineth that the Commissioners call them these of the Separation unlesse withall they exprest they meant the seperation from the Prolates wayes as Scotland and England now doe Answ Yea but they separate themselves also from the Sacramentall communion of all Christian Churches yea of all the Reformed Churches of the world And if it be true what we have read in the letters from New-England from the communion of one Church with another amongst themselves 3. He saith that such a Case may fallout amongst us with swasmes of Anabaptists and Antinomians Answ That cannot be for they have no Communion with us and therefore cannot be excommunicated by us 2. It may easily fall out amongst you for the Anabaptists as we have already shewed are your owne and not ours 4. He sayes that the Commissioners suppose more in their second Answer viz. that two or more Churches may mutually pretest and pronounce the sentence of non-communion one against another Answ This Doctor is either very dull in not conceiving of this cleare and solid answer of the Commissioners or else very malicious in disguising of it for the Commissioners argue here upon a Case according to the Independenters Hypothesis which cannot but be ordinary amongst them according to their Discipline and howbeit their Churches be very few and have been a very short time in rerum natura yet it hath fallen out amongst them in New England and they have had the like Case in the Netherlands according to their owne Relation but in our way and Discipline it cannot fall out amongst us for if two Parish Churches have any difference they submit themselves both to the Colloque or to the Provinciall Assembly if two Provinciall Synods or Assemblies differ the Nationall Assembly judgeth betwixt them both so that this Case cannot fall out amongst us and it is a practicall principle that par in parem non habet imperium since neither of the equals are subject one to the other and such are all Parish Churches amongst themselves Classes amongst themselves and Provinciall Synods amongst themselves The Doctor by a Doctorall power jumpeth over the 3. and 4. Answer with this worthy and most Laconicke reply viz. This same reply sarveth to year third and fourth answer Which whether it be truly said I remit it to the Readers judgement The Commissioners fifth Answer is By what probability can it be made to appeare to any rationall man and indifferent minde that no authority shall be as valid as authority against the obstinate that via admonitionis and requisitionis is equall with via citationis publiea authoritatis There cannot bee so much as triall and examination of the offence without authority unlesse the party bee willing to appeare that perswasion and jurisdiction that the delivering over to Satan and thereby striking the conscience with the terrour of God by the authority of Jesus Christ which hath the promise of a speciall and strong ratification in heavn and any other Ecclesiasticall way whatsoever which must be inferiour unto this and depend onely upon perswasion on the one part and free will on the other can be supposed to be like efficacious No man will say but in civill matters it is one thing to have adoe with our neighbour who hath no more authority over us then we have over him and another thing to have to doe with civill power which hath authority over both this solution I have written over in the Commissioners own words because it is so significative so strong and evident that it dissolveth all the frivolous Replies of this good Doctor The Doctor hence supposeth 1. That there is no authority but Scripture-authority by Scripture-authority I beleeve he meaneth that instituted by Scripture otherwaies Scripture authority is the excellency of Scripture verity which binds us to beleeve it because of its Author which is God 2. He supposes that to be most valid that convinceth and conquers actus elicitos the minde rather then that which doth onely manacle and constraine â—â—â—us imperatos the outward carriage then makes his quaere thus Is the way of admonition protestation and non-communion no authority Reply But here the Doctor is mightily mistaken both in his Authority and in his Actus eliciti and Imperati 1. For every thing that is said in Scripture howbeit its verity be grounded on Divine Authority yet giveth it not men an authority or authoritative power for what authoritative power is given to man or Angel by those words In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth 2. Neither doth every admonition in Scripture made to men arm them with authority as that place of Saint Paul whereon the Doctor buildeth his authority Give no offence for it commandeth not an authority or authoritative power to be exercised but an act of obedience to be practised Item no publique power or authority but a private duty because it is common to all men which cannot be said of Ecclesiasticall authority Likewise that other passage better a milstone were hanged about ones necke and he cast into the Sea then to offend a weake brother Item that we were better not to eate flesh then to offend c. All this is said by Divine Authority in respect
AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL INTITULED A COOLE CONFERENCE Between the cleered REFORMATION AND THE APOLOGETICALL NARRATION Brought together by a Wel-willer to both Wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared most humbly submitted to the judgement of the Honourable Houses of Parliament the most Learned and Reverend Divines of the Assembly and all the Reformed Churches By ADAM STEVART Amb. lib. 5. de Fide Si taceamus consentire videbimur si contendamus verendum ne carnales judicemur Imprinted at London 1644. TO THE READER COurteous Reader I pray thee excuse some of the most materiall faults fallen out partly by my absence partly by an accident that befell the Copy and to correct them as followeth PAge 3. line 8. read neither should he have feared a suppression of his book p. 10. l. 11. dele all that parenthesis ibid. p. l. 20. dele because p. 11. l. 9. read and those who interesse p. 16. l. 24. for but so r. and so p. 19. l. 26. r. for it was 1. it was p. 22. d. men p. 25. l. 3. r. Answ 1. ib. p. l. 5. for how r. 2. How ibid. p. l. 8. after the word Communion adde all that followeth 3. Either this Wel-willer pretendeth to play the Naturalist or the Divine If the Naturalist he knoweth not well the nature of the Northerly winde for ordinarily it bringeth not blacke but faire weather and scattereth the clouds as he might learne of all Naturalists ab Aqualone aurum from the North commeth gold i.e. golden or fair weather Iob 37.22 The North winde driveth away rain Prov. 25.23 If he play the Divine and allude to Scripture I must say to him as Christ said to the Jewes Ye erre not understanding the Scriptures for there it signifieth either the Spirit of Christ as in Salomons Song And then he must pray with the Church A wake O North-winde and come thou South blow upon my garden that the spices thereof may flow out Cant. 4.16 Or Gods people who were Northerne in respect of the Philistins who were their enemies so we must be Gods people and the Independenters whom this Wel-willer opposeth to the North their enemies or the Babylonians who were septentrionall or North-ward in respect of Gods people Esay 41.25 and so he esteemeth us to be Gods enemies if so how hold they us for one of the most pure Churches but what ever it signifie it can never signifie the Church of Scotland but in a very good sense Pag. 27. d. us p. 28. for Heb. panegr r. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Scripture Heb. 12.23 l. ult for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 29. l. 8. for vomit r. ye vomit p. 29. l. 30. d. of my selfe p. 43. l. 27. for two read five p. 35. l. 29. after the word narration adde all this that followeth Onely I pray the Reader to consider these mens craft in going about to sow the seeds of division betwixt the civill Magistrat the orthodox Churches in making the world to beleeve that they grant him more then the maximes of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to do For 1. They tell not wherein 2. Whether this power be Ecclesiasticall or Civill as for the Ecclesiasticall they cannot give it 1. It being onely a Ministeriall power to serve not Magisteriall to dominiere with or to be given away by proxy to whom they please 2. If they give the Magistrat any power what can it be is it to preach to teach the power of the Keies to Excommunicate or to attend upon the sick and poore people and as for the civill it is not theirs but His Majesties and the Magistrates as is the constant tenet of all the Orthodox Churches who hold the Civill power incompatible with that of a Pastour or Doctor of the Church 3. If they grant the Magistrate more power then our Churches how is it that they acknowledge the Kings Patent in New-England for nothing else but in matters of State or Civill Government and Gods word onely in Church Government 4. He and they also hold the same rule in Old-England and therefore I pray all men only to consider if this be not rather a gulling of the Civill Magistrate then a proof of what they say 5. I wish him to answer whether New-England depend of Old-England and whether they thinke the King and Parliament have power to change Religion and Church Government there 6. Whether they both have power to do the same here against Gods word 7. Whether the Parliament have done well or not in calling of this Assembly of Divines to judge of matters of Religion As for us the constant opinion of all our Churches is that all Civill power belongeth onely to the Civill Magistrate and none at all to the Church 2. That the Civill Magistrate hath an extrinsecall executive power about Religion to maintaine and reforme it in case of corruption and that according to the presidents in Scripture Neither did ever any good Christian Prince assume any more to himselfe Neither doth it any way lessen his power that it is only extrinsecall for to be intrinsecall or extrinsecall signifieth not any quantity of greater or lesser power but onely the manner thereof for an extrinsecall power and influence may be greater then an intrinsecall as appeareth in that of the efficient and Materiall cause for the first is only active and yet extrinsecall but the second meerely passive without any action or efficacy at all and yet intrinsecall PErlegi tractatum hunc in quo nihil reperio quo minus cum utilitate publicâ imprimatur IA. CRANFORD BEfore I beginne the Refutation of this Pamphlet it shall not be amisse that I apologize for my selfe for refuting a Book already sufficiently refuted of it selfe and by that very same Booke whereof it intendeth the refutation I will therefore here declare unto the Christian Reader how I came to undertake it how unwilling I was to doe it upon what reasons I was moved thereunto The truth therefore is thus That some daies after the publication of this booke I hapned to fall in company with some men of quality that were reading of it and after the perusall thereof it was the joint wish of them all that some answer were drawne up unto it A few dayes after that I chanced to re-encounter with some of the same company and some others very well affected to Reformation who after sundry discourses fell upon the same Theme againe some of them saying that it would doe well that the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland would answer it Where some of them desiring me to deliver my opinion I replyed severall times as occasion required in substance that which followeth That it might seeme strange to others if men of such gravity and learning and much more of so eminent place and employment representing the whole Nationall Church of the Kingdome of Scotland should stoop to answer every idle
troubled the Assembly very little with any Reply to what they answered you But will ye our Well-willer either give us or let us give you some positions upon this Subject that we may receive of you some edification in particular at least if we cannot have it in publick Here I offer you a man to discusse whatsoever positions you please in all points wherein yee dissent from all Protestant and Christian Churches And since you put us in minde of it let me tell you some have been very desirous to have had some accesse to some of your Ministers to the end they might have received some edification of them and have known their opinions but found them evermore inaccessible so desirous were they it should seem to hide their opinions As for your Prodromus which ye say hath not deserved to be whipt if the Parliament permit any of the Assembly differing one from another in opinion to present their judgements with their reasons unto the Houses you cannot judge it a crime c. Answ This is already answered by the Author of the Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration 2. This Proposition is conditionall and whoever hath the least tincture in Logick knoweth that conditionalis propositio nil ponit in re nisi positâ conditione 3. And if the Parliament permit it not in this your foolish fashion what will you say 4. What if very wise Parliament men already say that if in the Generall Councells every one that differed in opinion one from another had written bookes one against another they should rather have been held for Councells of fooles then of wise men 5. And if it be so as you say wherefore I pray should not the Scotch Commissioners have written against your Apologeticall Narration since they differed in opinion from the Apologists and so much the rather being that they were calumniated by them He complaineth also of their bitternesse And I on the other side wonder at their patience and meeknesse that they have so little gall against Innovators calumniating the government of all Protestant yea of all Christian Churches except their owne Conventicles as destitute of the power of godlinesse and as Papists and Lutherans defaming them with nicknames as Calvinians c. P. 3. He asks the Authors of the Reformation cleared if they thinke that the Elders of the quinque Ecclesiae be dark Answ Who these Elders of the quinque Ecclesiae can be I know not I have read in the Revelation of the Angels of 7 Ecclesiae in the Councell of Trent de Dudithio Episcopo Quinqu ' Ecclesiensi and of a Town in Hungaria named Quinque Ecclesiae at this present under Mahomet and by the Turks named Porsheu and by the Germans Funs-kirchen but of any Protestant Quinq ' Ecclesian Elders I never heard or read of before this Neither know I what he can meane by them but the five independent Ministers of the Assembly whom hitherto I never heard designed by such a name or title and if these be they I answer that the Commissioners say not that they are darke but those who in the dark are afraid of that which they know not Now light may be in darknesse Neither can he apply this to these Presbyters or to himselfe unlesse he finde in himselfe there be conscia mens The Commissioners adde for explication of themselves and suffer their affections to run before their understanding The Well-willer replieth Are we not morall men voluntas vult ut intellectus intelligit to understand first and affect after Answ Master Well-willer if your affections may be judged of by your actions certainly they are so independent that they will not be tyed according to the rules of Philosophy to depend upon the understanding 〈…〉 understand first to affect after and we can tel you S 〈…〉 from Scripture that if a man be not a very gracious I say not a morall man he will readily understand as he affects rather then affect as he understands 2. That maxime of Philosophy striketh not at all at the Commissioners expression they say that their affections run before their understanding and not that their will runs before their understanding Now will and affection be two things the one in the Reasonable soule the other in the Appetite unlesse with the old Philosophers as Aristotler elateth of them l. 3 de Anima cap. 3. tex 150. ye will confound menteÌ„ cuÌ„ sensu and consequently voluntatem cuÌ„ appetitu so make mans soul mortall as the late Author of the Mortality of the Soul 2. Or if ye take the affection in a more large but lesse proper signification as it signifieth also the inclinations and movements of the will then they understand not thereby the consulted deliberated advised but the rash inconsiderate precipitate and indeliberate actions of the will otherwise called the first movements of the wil motus primo primi qui omne judicium rationis antevertunt which attend not but prevent the judgement of reason i. e. the deliberation and examen of the understanding And in these movements it is certain that the affectioÌ„ goes before the understanding for in such movements the sensitive appetite which is led by the sense misleadeth the understanding not formally but objectivè in so far forth as drawing with it the phansie or imagination whose phantasmata or images determine the understanding in its judgement it being so determined suddenly without any morall deliberation determineth the will but so the will is said to affect without judgement i. e. without that deliberative judgement which is necessary to your morall man or rather to the morall actions of his will and in this sense the Poet said Scilicet insano nemo in amore videt Boetius the Martyr Quis leges det amantibus major lex amor est sibi And Seneca Quod ratio poscit vincit at regnat furor Potensque tota mente dominatur Deus So Aristotle Qualis quisque est talis ei finis esse videtur neque eadem videntur amantibus â—dio habentibus So should you have taken this judicious expression of the Commissioners 3. Item the will in actionibus suis imperatis whereof some be acts of the understanding must goe before the understanding for the understanding must command before that the understanding can obey 4. The Actions of the understanding that are not involuntary but voluntary or willing must follow the will for voluntarium belongeth first to the will and by the will to the other faculties 5. Originall sinne also ill habitudes customes and violent passions hinder the will from following the understanding and make it some times to miscarry against the light of the understanding 6. Albeit the will in its movements presupposes necessarily some judgement of the understanding yet this judgement necessarily presupposed moves it not necessarily for it may be as well moved and directed by another judgement that moveth it not to the contrary action whereunto
them in the Lord but not to rule ever themselves and others Answ 1. What is Well-willer understandeth by Congregations whether Ministers alone of Ruling Elders alone or both together or men or all men women and children and in a word all the members of the Church I know not Neither doth hee expresse his minde upon this point Only I must say that being once in company with some of their Preachers I heard some women maintaine stoutly in presence of the Minister without any contradiction made by him that women also had power in Ecclefiasticall Assemblies to judge of Controversies of Religion and in matter of all Ecclesiasticall Censures 2. I answer it is one thing 1. to call a Church Officer to his charge or to give him his vocation or calling 2. another to send him into the charge or to give him his mission 3. another to admit him into the charge and to elect him or choose him The first is an act of the Church officers who examine his life and Doctrine and afterwards give him his Ordination in the name of the whole Ministry The second is an act of those who send him and sometimes is done by the Ministers in a Colloque or a Synod which give him his Ordination as when hee is sent to feed a particular flocke sometimes by a particular Church as in some particular Commission to a Classe or Synod but in the name of the universall visible Church as yee see in the Assembly at Antiochia in sending some Ministers to the Assembly at Hierusalem The third is an act sometimes of particular Churches as in the admission and election of their owne Ministers Sometimes of a Colloque and Synod as in the admission of the Members therof as in that Synod at Hierusalem And here to avoid all Sophistications of our Adversaries note that I speak here only of the visible Church according to its visible forme and consequently of the visible and externe Vocation Mission Admission and Election of Ministers so I say every Church chooses i. e. elects its owne Ministers but it calleth them not nor sendeth them It giveth them not their generall Vocation nor Mission into the Ministery but that is an act of the whole Church which in actu signato belongeth to the whole Church but in actu exercito according to the exigence of time and places to particular Ministers not in quality of Ministers of particular Congregations but of greater consociations in a representative body of many particular Churches So a Minister in a Synod hath power of God by the whole visible Church to judge rule and feed many Churches positis ponendio ut poni debent so as nothing thereunto requisite bee wanting but all ordered as it should viz. if it be by consent or election of his particular Church and he bee admitted by the Classe or Synod whereunto he is sent c. as it is ordinarily practised in our Reformed Churches Master Well-willer replyeth againe That Episcopacy is as intrinsecall to particular Churches as the Presbyteric since Bishops are chosen by the people at their instalment where customarily people are allowed to make any just exception Answ I deny the Assumption viz. that it is as intrinsecall and that for the reason brought by the Commissioners As for that which hee bringeth for confirmation thereof viz. because they are chosen by the people I answer 1. It is not enough they have their Election from the people but they must also have their Vocation and Mission from the Church in the name and authority of Christ which they have not according to this Well-willers owne Tenets 2. Because the people can make no Church Officer and principally Ministers since they have not the abilities to judge of their learning and gifts 3. In choosing of an Archbishop it is not morally possible that all the people can elect him and especially when he is a great Archbishop or a Primate over a whole Kingdome for all the people cannot well meet together 4. And howbeit they could meet yet could not their consent and voyces easily be gathered 5. It were a ridiculous thing in choosing of him to seek the consent and voyces of every idle and ignorant fellow yea of women that are of the people 6. Neither is it enough to chose a Bishop to make any just exception for that is not to elect him but to hinder his Election 7. Neither is this ordinarily practised 8. And Master Well-willer to the Bishops here confesseth in the next line that it hath had little successe But Master Well-willer confirmeth it out of that ordinary passage of Hieronymus To avoid Schisme one of the classicall Presbyterie was chosen to be as Chair man Answ 1. Such a Bishop is not an English or Papist Bishop but a Moderator of the action or a Master of the Chaire which will not make up a Bishop in so farre as a Bishop is distinguished from an ordinary Minister for yee your selves pretend to have your Synods which cannot be without some Moderator President or Master of the Chaire and yet ye deny that ye have any Bishops or Episcopall Government 2. Neither are Bishops annually 3. To bee short Master Well-willer bringeth us here no reall but imaginary Bishops in the Kingdome of Utopia viz. that are only Masters of the Chaire annuall c. 4. Item whose Chancellour Archdeacon c. were Parishioners 5. Their Chancellours are not ordinarily Ecclesiasticall but Lay-men as ye call them who neverthelesse judge of all Ecclesiasticall Causes which ye ordinarily blame 6. Neither have they Vocation from God as yee confesse Neither are they chosen by all the Churches that they rule and feed if any food they give and feed not themselves with the fat of the people You are also too bold Master Well-willer to say that the people formerly have beene as willing they should reigne as ever any people were in your Kingdome to have the Presbytery ever them Answ We can shew you hundreds yea thousands who have cutled their Government both in England and in Ireland and what hath been the good will of the Scots towards them they can best tell themselves as having felt it these foure or five yeares last past But as for the Presbyterian Government ye have never heard the People murmure much lesse rise up against it 2. But if it be so that ye have found them so sweet what needed ye run away and desert the Church here They did compell Ministers and Churchwardens to doe many things against their conscience and in case of refufall did ordinarily undoe them as we can produce many examples both in England and Ireland yea of the Independenters themselves before that they spake this way in despite of the Reformed Churches The like of this cannot without singular impudence be said to have been any where practised by any Scots Presbyterie We grant you that it is not the peoples consent only but if according to the Word that makes a Government lawfull But wherefore may not a Congregationall representative Church as well choose men for Classicall Assemblies as for Synods What pattern have you for the one rather then for the other To all this according to your usuall custom ye say much but prove litle or nothing of what is in dispute betwixt us many books ye make but little to the purpose And now when ye can doe no better ye can your selves most desperately on the Bishops side to maintain their cause when ye are yet too weake to maintaine your own This Well-willer in the end of his Booke wishes that the Commissioners golden speech be written upon all their actions viz. That those that are most averse to Presbyterie if they allow no matertall difference in Doctrine Worship or Practice might enjoy their peace and all comforts of their Ministery and Profession under it without controllment of that Authoritative power which they so much apprehend And thereunto replieth We have saith he been of late made to feare the contrary by the reports of some not of the meanest ranke rf your own Nation Answ No godly man that knoweth what is Presbyterian Government can doubt of it for according to the rules thereof 1. no man is compelled to be Actor in any thing against his own conscience 2. If you will be under it and allow no materiall difference c. without doubt the Synod and all Orthodox Churches will cherish you and assure you of it But if ye wil ever live in Panick feares and be so witty as evermore to find out new matter of jealousies to vex your own soules and make you to live in such a perpetuall diffidence all the forces of the King and his three Kingdomes is not able to hinder it ye must trust in God and admit of such securitie from your Brethren as morally ye can have If this doe not the businesse we know not what to advise you As for that Anonymous Country-man of ours who he can be and if any such be and whether his discourse with you could give you matter of just feare we know not and therefore forbeare to answer Only I wish seriously on your behalfe ye would doe nothing against the glory of your God the weale of your Country or to the breach of charity with your Brethren who so much desire to live in peace with you all The peace of God be with you all Amen FINIS