of_o its_o truth_n in_o so_o far_o as_o authority_n signify_v a_o excellency_n or_o dignity_n in_o this_o truth_n for_o which_o it_o shall_v be_v believe_v because_o of_o the_o excellency_n of_o the_o author_n who_o be_v god_n who_o can_v err_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o his_o knowledge_n or_o verity_n or_o lead_v other_o into_o error_n because_o of_o the_o goodness_n of_o his_o will_n or_o veracity_n but_o to_o say_v that_o these_o passage_n signify_v any_o authority_n whereof_o we_o speak_v i._n e._n either_o power_n to_o judge_v to_o command_v or_o to_o inflict_v spiritual_a punishment_n no_o reasonable_a man_n can_v think_v it_o that_o know_v what_o power_n or_o authority_n mean_v 1._o for_o the_o act_n of_o power_n be_v either_o imperative_fw-it or_o executive_a or_o some_o other_o like_a whereof_o none_o be_v here_o express_v 2._o these_o sentence_n be_v all_o mere_o â—â—â—ntiative_a which_o formal_o be_v not_o authoritative_a or_o of_o power_n 3._o authority_n 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bonum_fw-la christianum_fw-la aliud_fw-la bonum_fw-la civem_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la the_o other_o objection_n be_v that_o by_o this_o authority_n and_o order_n of_o government_n one_o church_n have_v power_n over_o another_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n bathe_v endow_v his_o church_n with_o and_o be_v no_o other_o but_o a_o new_a prelatical_a dominion_n set_v over_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o commissioner_n answer_v deny_v that_o by_o their_o government_n any_o particular_a church_n can_v judge_v another_o but_o that_o the_o whole_a representative_a church_n in_o virtue_n of_o its_o aggregative_a power_n judge_v of_o they_o all_o which_o they_o illustrate_v very_o pretty_o and_o judicious_o by_o example_n take_v from_o the_o part_n of_o a_o man_n body_n the_o member_n of_o a_o parliament_n and_o town_n and_o city_n neither_o be_v it_o a_o prelatical_a domination_n as_o they_o calumniate_v it_o for_o that_o of_o prelate_n be_v extrinsecall_v to_o particular_a church_n as_o be_v enclose_v in_o their_o metropolitan_a church_n which_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o particular_a church_n as_o not_o compound_v of_o any_o of_o their_o member_n per_fw-la se_fw-la particular_o call_v thereunto_o but_o that_o of_o our_o presbytery_n and_o such_o like_a ecclesiastical_a senate_n be_v intrinsical_v to_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v compound_v of_o their_o organical_a part_n or_o minister_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o general_a vocation_n and_o particular_a mission_n admission_n or_o election_n particular_o call_v thereunto_o but_o here_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o consider_v the_o commissioner_n most_o clear_a and_o judicious_a expression_n which_o be_v compare_v with_o this_o well-willer_n reply_v will_v sufficient_o refute_v all_o he_o say_v our_o well-willer_n repli_v sure_a your_o law_n do_v impose_v that_o one_o congregation_n shall_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n suppose_v of_o twenty_o congregation_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o nineteen_o of_o they_o be_v as_o collateral_a answ_n note_v here_o fallaciam_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o captious_a argument_n whereby_o he_o prove_v one_o thing_n for_o another_o that_o which_o be_v not_o in_o question_n for_o that_o which_o be_v in_o question_n viz._n a_o authority_n that_o be_v as_o collateral_a in_o stead_n of_o a_o authority_n that_o be_v collateral_a which_o be_v a_o epidemical_a sickness_n in_o independent_a divinity_n 2._o i_o answer_v that_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a congregation_n who_o sit_v in_o class_n and_o synod_n may_v be_v consider_v two_o way_n 1._o material_o as_o man_n who_o be_v elder_n 2._o formal_o in_o quality_n of_o elder_n and_o then_o again_o either_o 1._o in_o quality_n of_o particular_a elder_n tie_v to_o such_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o particular_a mission_n admission_n or_o election_n make_v by_o such_o a_o particular_a church_n or_o 2._o in_o quality_n of_o elder_n in_o general_a call_v to_o feed_v the_o whole_a church_n in_o virtue_n of_o their_o general_a vocation_n which_o again_o as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n tell_v you_o may_v either_o be_v consider_v in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la when_o only_o it_o be_v signify_v to_o belong_v to_o their_o charge_n before_o they_o exercise_v it_o or_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la when_o in_o virtue_n of_o some_o mission_n admisson_n and_o particular_a commission_n they_o may_v exercise_v it_o if_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a church_n be_v consider_v material_o only_a they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o formal_o elder_n if_o 2._o formal_o in_o quality_n of_o particular_a elder_n tie_v to_o a_o particular_a church_n they_o have_v not_o power_n to_o read_v any_o church_n but_o heir_n own_o particular_a church_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v a_o untruth_n that_o any_o one_o congregation_n be_v subject_a to_o nineteen_o or_o twenty_o particular_a congregation_n yea_o they_o be_v so_o far_o from_o this_o disorder_n and_o confusion_n that_o the_o pastor_n of_o one_o congregation_n can_v preach_v in_o another_o without_o the_o consent_n of_o that_o particular_a congregation_n as_o the_o rule_n and_o law_n of_o our_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n may_v 〈…〉_o if_o they_o be_v consider_v 3._o in_o virtue_n of_o their_o 〈…〉_o will_v uâ—â—â—â—ion_n they_o have_v power_n to_o rule_v the_o church_n in_o general_a and_o may_v actual_o do_v it_o in_o synod_n in_o acta_fw-la signate_n if_o they_o be_v consider_v precise_o before_o their_o particular_a mission_n and_o commission_n and_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la i._n e_o they_o may_v exercise_v it_o actual_o after_o their_o particular_a commission_n their_o mistion_n from_o their_o particular_a representative_a church_n and_o admission_n into_o the_o representative_a or_o collective_a body_n or_o association_n and_o representation_n of_o many_o particular_a church_n whether_o clasicall_a or_o synodall_n master_n well-willer_n reply_n that_o the_o congregation_n every_o one_o choose_v their_o own_o officer_n to_o rule_v ever_o
a_o answer_n to_o a_o libel_n entitle_v a_o cool_a conference_n between_o the_o clear_v reformation_n and_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n bring_v together_o by_o a_o well-willer_n to_o both_o wherein_o be_v clear_o refute_v what_o ever_o he_o bring_v against_o the_o reformation_n clear_v most_o humble_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o honourable_a house_n of_o parliament_n the_o most_o learned_a and_o reverend_a divine_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n by_o adam_n stevart_n amb._n lib._n 5._o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la si_fw-mi taceamus_fw-la consentire_fw-la videbimur_fw-la si_fw-la contendamus_fw-la verendum_fw-la ne_fw-la carnales_fw-la judicemur_fw-la imprint_v at_o london_n 1644._o to_o the_o reader_n courteous_a reader_n i_o pray_v thou_o excuse_v some_o of_o the_o most_o material_a fault_n fall_v out_o partly_o by_o my_o absence_n partly_o by_o a_o accident_n that_o befall_v the_o copy_n and_o to_o correct_v they_o as_o follow_v page_n 3._o line_n 8._o read_v neither_o shall_v he_o have_v fear_v a_o suppression_n of_o his_o book_n p._n 10._o l._n 11._o deal_n all_o that_o parenthesis_n ibid._n p._n l._n 20._o deal_n because_o p._n 11._o l._n 9_o read_v and_o those_o who_o interest_n p._n 16._o l._n 24._o for_o but_o so_o r._n and_o so_o p._n 19_o l._n 26._o r._n for_o it_o be_v 1._o it_o be_v p._n 22._o d._n man_n p._n 25._o l._n 3._o r._n answ_n 1._o ib._n p._n l._n 5._o for_o how_o r._n 2._o how_o ibid._n p._n l._n 8._o after_o the_o word_n communion_n add_v all_o that_o follow_v 3._o either_o this_o well-willer_n pretend_v to_o play_v the_o naturalist_n or_o the_o divine_a if_o the_o naturalist_n he_o know_v not_o well_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o northerly_a wind_n for_o ordinary_o it_o bring_v not_o black_a but_o fair_a weather_n and_o scatter_v the_o cloud_n as_o he_o may_v learn_v of_o all_o naturalist_n ab_fw-la aqualone_fw-it aurum_fw-la from_o the_o north_n come_v gold_n i.e._n golden_a or_o fair_a weather_n job_n 37.22_o the_o north_n wind_n drive_v away_o rain_n prov._n 25.23_o if_o he_o play_v the_o divine_a and_o allude_v to_o scripture_n i_o must_v say_v to_o he_o as_o christ_n say_v to_o the_o jew_n you_o err_v not_o understand_v the_o scripture_n for_o there_o it_o signify_v either_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n as_o in_o s_z song_z and_o then_o he_o must_v pray_v with_o the_o church_n a_o wake_v o_o northwind_n and_o come_v thou_o south_n blow_v upon_o my_o garden_n that_o the_o spice_n thereof_o may_v flow_v out_o cant._n 4.16_o or_o god_n people_n who_o be_v northern_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o philistine_n who_o be_v their_o enemy_n so_o we_o must_v be_v god_n people_n and_o the_o independenter_n who_o this_o well-willer_n oppose_v to_o the_o north_n their_o enemy_n or_o the_o babylonian_n who_o be_v septentrional_a or_o northward_o in_o respect_n of_o god_n people_n esay_n 41.25_o and_o so_o he_o esteem_v we_o to_o be_v god_n enemy_n if_o so_o how_o hold_v they_o we_o for_o one_o of_o the_o most_o pure_a church_n but_o what_o ever_o it_o signify_v it_o can_v never_o signify_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n but_o in_o a_o very_a good_a sense_n pag._n 27._o d._n us_o p._n 28._o for_o heb._n panegr_n r._n as_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o scripture_n heb._n 12.23_o l._n ult_n for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d r._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d p._n 29._o l._n 8._o for_o vomit_n r._n you_o vomit_n p._n 29._o l._n 30._o d._n of_o myself_o p._n 43._o l._n 27._o for_o two_o read_v five_o p._n 35._o l._n 29._o after_o the_o word_n narration_n add_v all_o this_o that_o follow_v only_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o consider_v these_o man_n craft_n in_o go_v about_o to_o sow_v the_o seed_n of_o division_n betwixt_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n &_o the_o orthodox_n church_n in_o make_v the_o world_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o grant_v he_o more_o than_o the_o maxim_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o do_v for_o 1._o they_o tell_v not_o wherein_o 2._o whether_o this_o power_n be_v ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a as_o for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a they_o can_v give_v it_o 1._o it_o be_v only_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o serve_v &_o not_o magisterial_a to_o domineer_v with_o or_o to_o be_v give_v away_o by_o proxy_n to_o who_o they_o please_v 2._o if_o they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n any_o power_n what_o can_v it_o be_v be_v it_o to_o preach_v to_o teach_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o excommunicate_v or_o to_o attend_v upon_o the_o sick_a and_o poor_a people_n and_o as_o for_o the_o civil_a it_o be_v not_o they_o but_o his_o majesty_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o be_v the_o constant_a tenet_n of_o all_o the_o orthodox_n church_n who_o hold_v the_o civil_a power_n incompatible_a with_o that_o of_o a_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o if_o they_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n more_o power_n than_o our_o church_n how_o be_v it_o that_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o king_n patent_n in_o new-england_n for_o nothing_o else_o but_o in_o matter_n of_o state_n or_o civil_a government_n and_o god_n word_n only_o in_o church_n government_n 4._o he_o and_o they_o also_o hold_v the_o same_o rule_n in_o old-england_n and_o therefore_o i_o pray_v all_o man_n only_o to_o consider_v if_o this_o be_v not_o rather_o a_o gull_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o a_o proof_n of_o what_o they_o say_v 5._o i_o wish_v he_o to_o answer_v whether_o new-england_n depend_v of_o old-england_n and_o whether_o they_o think_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n have_v power_n to_o change_v religion_n and_o church_n government_n there_o 6._o whether_o they_o both_o have_v power_n to_o do_v the_o same_o here_o against_o god_n word_n 7._o whether_o the_o parliament_n have_v do_v well_o or_o not_o in_o call_v of_o this_o assembly_n of_o divine_n to_o judge_v of_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o for_o we_o the_o constant_a opinion_n of_o all_o our_o church_n be_v that_o all_o civil_a power_n belong_v only_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o none_o at_o all_o to_o the_o church_n 2._o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v a_o extrinsecall_n executive_a power_n about_o religion_n to_o maintain_v and_o reform_v it_o in_o case_n of_o corruption_n and_o that_o according_a to_o the_o precedent_n in_o scripture_n neither_o do_v ever_o any_o good_a christian_a prince_n assume_v any_o more_o to_o himself_o neither_o do_v it_o any_o way_n lessen_v his_o power_n that_o it_o be_v only_o extrinsecall_v for_o to_o be_v intrinsical_n or_o extrinsecall_v signify_v not_o any_o quantity_n of_o great_a or_o lesser_a power_n but_o only_o the_o manner_n thereof_o for_o a_o extrinsecall_a power_n and_o influence_n may_v be_v great_a than_o a_o intrinsical_v as_o appear_v in_o that_o of_o the_o efficient_a and_o material_a cause_n for_o the_o first_o be_v only_o active_a and_o yet_o extrinsecall_v but_o the_o second_o mere_o passive_a without_o any_o action_n or_o efficacy_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o intrinsical_v perlegi_fw-la tractatum_fw-la hunc_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la nihil_fw-la reperio_fw-la quo_fw-la minus_fw-la cum_fw-la utilitate_fw-la publicâ_fw-la imprimatur_fw-la ja._n cranford_n before_o i_o begin_v the_o refutation_n of_o this_o pamphlet_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v amiss_o that_o i_o apologise_v for_o myself_o for_o refute_v a_o book_n already_o sufficient_o refute_v of_o itself_o and_o by_o that_o very_o same_o book_n whereof_o it_o intend_v the_o refutation_n i_o will_v therefore_o here_o declare_v unto_o the_o christian_a reader_n how_o i_o come_v to_o undertake_v it_o how_o unwilling_a i_o be_v to_o do_v it_o upon_o what_o reason_n i_o be_v move_v thereunto_o the_o truth_n therefore_o be_v thus_o that_o some_o day_n after_o the_o publication_n of_o this_o book_n i_o happen_v to_o fall_v in_o company_n with_o some_o man_n of_o quality_n that_o be_v read_v of_o it_o and_o after_o the_o perusal_n thereof_o it_o be_v the_o joint_a wish_n of_o they_o all_o that_o some_o answer_n be_v draw_v up_o unto_o it_o a_o few_o day_n after_o that_o i_o chance_v to_o reencounter_n with_o some_o of_o the_o same_o company_n and_o some_o other_o very_o well_o affect_v to_o reformation_n who_o after_o sundry_a discourse_n fall_v upon_o the_o same_o theme_n again_o some_o of_o they_o say_v that_o it_o will_v do_v well_o that_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n will_v answer_v it_o where_o some_o of_o they_o desire_v i_o to_o deliver_v my_o opinion_n i_o reply_v several_a time_n as_o occasion_n require_v in_o substance_n that_o which_o follow_v that_o it_o may_v seem_v strange_a to_o other_o if_o man_n of_o such_o gravity_n and_o learning_n and_o much_o more_o of_o so_o eminent_a place_n and_o employment_n represent_v the_o whole_a nationall_n church_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o scotland_n shall_v stoop_v to_o answer_v every_o idle_a
answer_v not_o a_o word_n to_o the_o number_n of_o church_n officer_n or_o to_o their_o justification_n against_o the_o aspersion_n lay_v upon_o they_o for_o lay_v elder_n or_o their_o accusation_n against_o the_o independent_o because_o of_o their_o layman_n preacher_n and_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n all_o this_o he_o pass_v over_o by_o a_o doctoral_a privilege_n hic_fw-la &_o ubique_fw-la terrarum_fw-la tacendi_fw-la only_o he_o scratch_v at_o the_o proof_n they_o bring_v for_o presbytery_n class_n and_o synod_n but_o refute_v it_o not_o no_o more_o than_o he_o do_v the_o argument_n bring_v by_o master_n rhetherford_n guelaspe_v and_o other_o take_v from_o god_n attribute_n as_o 1._o from_o his_o goodness_n 2._o wisdom_n 3._o justice_n 4._o providence_n 5._o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n item_n from_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n 6._o from_o sundry_a inconvenience_n 7._o from_o the_o order_n establish_v in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n 8._o from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n 9_o from_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n 10._o from_o parity_n of_o reason_n or_o proportion_n betwixt_o a_o parishional_a session_n or_o consistory_n and_o six_o or_o seven_o person_n in_o the_o real_a church_n thereof_o and_o a_o combine_a presbytery_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o every_o one_o of_o the_o church_n peradventure_o two_o or_o three_o or_o ten_o thousand_o parishional_a consistory_n subject_a thereunto_o 11._o from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o church_n 12._o her_o conservation_n peace_n etc._n etc._n whereof_o you_o may_v happy_o hear_v more_o within_o a_o few_o day_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o pray_v you_o answer_v to_o what_o be_v write_v and_o not_o to_o clude_v such_o argument_n with_o tale_n at_o assize_n wooll-packe_n canonshot_n bullet_n battery_n and_o term_n of_o military_a discipline_n wherewith_o we_o be_v not_o so_o well_o acquaint_v p._n 10._o §_o 3._o here_o it_o seem_v that_o this_o doctor_n will_v excuse_v the_o apologizer_n in_o say_v that_o they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbytertall_a gevernment_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v as_o if_o it_o be_v rather_o say_v by_o way_n of_o retaliation_n and_o in_o anger_n then_o in_o truth_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o peace-plea_n call_v they_o independent_o if_o it_o be_v so_o 1._o their_o passion_n be_v worthy_a of_o the_o other_o compassion_n 2._o but_o this_o shall_v not_o have_v make_v they_o to_o offend_v all_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o especial_o their_o benefactor_n in_o the_o netherlands_o which_o be_v all_o presbyterian_o 3._o all_o comparison_n be_v also_o odious_a especial_o among_o man_n well_o breed_v 4._o and_o yet_o howsoever_o they_o hate_v the_o name_n yet_o they_o love_v dear_o the_o thing_n signify_v by_o the_o name_n and_o will_v depend_v of_o no_o ecclesiastical_a judicatory_a yea_o as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n show_v clear_o not_o upon_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o will_v that_o their_o congregation_n depend_v of_o themselves_o who_o yet_o will_v depend_v upon_o no_o man_n in_o spiritual_a power_n or_o authority_n but_o the_o doctor_n say_v if_o upon_o a_o gross_a error_n of_o another_o church_n they_o viz._n independent_a church_n dare_v exercise_v only_o a_o non_fw-fr communion_n with_o it_o than_o there_o be_v more_o leave_v for_o the_o magistrate_n to_o do_v then_o when_o you_o have_v excommunicate_v it_o answ_n in_o excommunicate_v a_o private_a person_n or_o a_o particular_a church_n when_o it_o can_v be_v do_v with_o less_o hurt_n to_o the_o church_n than_o be_v the_o good_a include_v therein_o it_o leave_v all_o to_o be_v do_v by_o the_o magistrate_n that_o god_n have_v ordain_v he_o to_o do_v viz._n in_o political_a government_n non_fw-la auferet_fw-la mortalia_fw-la quiregna_fw-la that_fw-mi coelestia_fw-la neither_o require_v the_o godly_a magistrate_n our_o king_n or_o this_o parliament_n any_o more_o but_o you_o be_v importune_v who_o will_v give_v he_o more_o than_o he_o require_v of_o you_o or_o then_o either_o god_n or_o the_o magistrate_n have_v command_v you_o the_o french_a say_v of_o such_o man_n il_fw-fr est_fw-la valet_fw-la du_fw-fr diable_fw-fr ilfait_o plus_fw-fr que_fw-fr commandement_fw-fr i_o will_v not_o here_o insist_v upon_o your_o impertinency_n in_o deny_v the_o name_n of_o excommunication_n to_o non_fw-fr communion_n and_o that_o great_a pride_n in_o not_o submit_v the_o judgement_n of_o five_o or_o six_o some_o time_n idle_a yea_o oftentimes_o wicked_a felllowe_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o divine_n and_o church_n of_o the_o world_n in_o case_n they_o shall_v dogmatise_v and_o sustain_v the_o most_o damnable_a heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o unto_o their_o judgement_n however_o so_o contemptible_a a_o number_n you_o will_v submit_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o their_o congregation_n amount_v peradventure_o to_o the_o number_n of_o many_o hundred_o it_o may_v be_v better_a man_n than_o themselves_o neither_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n for_o his_o power_n be_v not_o spiritual_a god_n have_v give_v a_o intrinsical_a power_n to_o the_o church_n sufficient_a for_o its_o spiritual_a end_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v be_v a_o pagan_a a_o antichristian_a christian_a a_o external_a christian_a but_o a_o inward_a enemy_n to_o the_o church_n he_o may_v be_v negligent_a in_o his_o charge_n etc._n etc._n and_o be_v it_o credible_a that_o in_o such_o case_n god_n have_v institute_v no_o discipline_n or_o government_n to_o take_v order_n with_o offender_n but_o of_o this_o i_o need_v not_o to_o say_v any_o thing_n this_o evasion_n be_v so_o well_o so_o evident_o and_o brief_o refute_v in_o the_o commissioner_n own_o word_n which_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o consider_v p._n 21.22_o if_o it_o please_v the_o reader_n he_o may_v have_v sundry_a reason_n against_o this_o opinion_n in_o the_o consideration_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n it_o be_v a_o untruth_n also_o that_o the_o doctor_n presuppose_v here_o viz._n that_o a_o classical_a presbytery_n be_v make_v up_o of_o many_o minister_n and_o lay_v man_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o scotland_n or_o among_o other_o protestant_n and_o false_a again_o that_o their_o assembly_n be_v make_v up_o of_o person_n partly_o ecclesiastical_a &_o partly_o civil_a or_o that_o they_o there_o rule_v person_n partly_o ecclesiastical_a partly_o civil_a we_o say_v that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o such_o person_n for_o howsoever_o one_o person_n may_v have_v one_o charge_v ecclesiastical_a and_o another_o secular_a or_o civil_a yet_o be_v he_o not_o therefore_o a_o mix_a person_n neither_o be_v these_o several_a charge_n mix_v but_o distinguish_v in_o he_o fince_n of_o the_o two_o there_o resu't_v not_o any_o three_o charge_n compound_v of_o both_o as_o in_o mixtion_n but_o he_o exercise_v they_o both_o distinct_o and_o several_o in_o such_o a_o fashion_n that_o the_o one_o never_o concur_v to_o the_o function_n and_o operation_n of_o the_o other_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n it_o shall_v follow_v that_o the_o divers_a faculty_n of_o the_o soul_n as_o the_o understanding_n &_o expulsive_a faculty_n in_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v mix_v together_o since_o they_o be_v both_o in_o one_o soul_n as_o the_o most_o part_n of_o philosopher_n hold_v when_o a_o statesman_n sit_v as_o a_o member_n of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n he_o sit_v no_o way_n as_o a_o statesman_n but_o as_o a_o churchman_n neither_o judge_v he_o a_o state-man_n or_o secular_a person_n in_o quality_n of_o a_o statesman_n or_o of_o a_o secular_a person_n but_o in_o quality_n of_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n so_o they_o judge_v not_o of_o civil_a matter_n formal_o as_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n authority_n but_o material_o &_o in_o so_o far_o as_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o a_o spiritual_a formality_n or_o conduce_v to_o a_o spiritual_a end_n under_o the_o which_o notion_n they_o belong_v not_o ordinary_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o per_fw-la se_fw-la &_o intrinscce_fw-la but_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la &_o extrinsece_n as_o all_o orthodox_n divine_v of_o the_o reform_a church_n do_v teach_v but_o this_o be_v not_o all_o for_o sundry_a of_o the_o independent_o have_v tell_v we_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n according_a to_o god_n word_n can_v punish_v any_o man_n for_o matter_n of_o religion_n how_o abominable_a soever_o his_o opinion_n be_v p._n 11._o and_o 12._o the_o doctor_n will_v not_o answer_v because_o he_o have_v not_o the_o book_n at_o hand_n and_o so_o shift_v over_o the_o argument_n what_o he_o say_v of_o aerius_n who_o hold_v out_o against_o bishop_n as_o our_o reform_a church_n do_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o be_v this_o that_o counsel_n may_v err_v
they_o in_o the_o lord_n but_o not_o to_o rule_v ever_o themselves_o and_o other_o answ_n 1._o what_o be_v well-willer_n understand_v by_o congregation_n whether_o minister_n alone_o of_o rule_v elder_n alone_o or_o both_o together_o or_o man_n or_o all_o man_n woman_n and_o child_n and_o in_o a_o word_n all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n i_o know_v not_o neither_o do_v he_o express_v his_o mind_n upon_o this_o point_n only_o i_o must_v say_v that_o be_v once_o in_o company_n with_o some_o of_o their_o preacher_n i_o hear_v some_o woman_n maintain_v stout_o in_o presence_n of_o the_o minister_n without_o any_o contradiction_n make_v by_o he_o that_o woman_n also_o have_v power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n 2._o i_o answer_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n 1._o to_o call_v a_o church_n officer_n to_o his_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o vocation_n or_o call_n 2._o another_o to_o send_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o mission_n 3._o another_o to_o admit_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n and_o to_o elect_v he_o or_o choose_v he_o the_o first_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o church_n officer_n who_o examine_v his_o life_n and_o doctrine_n and_o afterward_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a ministry_n the_o second_o be_v a_o act_n of_o those_o who_o send_v he_o and_o sometime_o be_v do_v by_o the_o minister_n in_o a_o colloque_n or_o a_o synod_n which_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n as_o when_o he_o be_v send_v to_o feed_v a_o particular_a flock_n sometime_o by_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o some_o particular_a commission_n to_o a_o class_n or_o synod_n but_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n as_o you_o see_v in_o the_o assembly_n at_o antiochia_n in_o send_v some_o minister_n to_o the_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n the_o three_o be_v a_o act_n sometime_o of_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n and_o election_n of_o their_o own_o minister_n sometime_o of_o a_o colloque_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n of_o the_o member_n thereof_o as_o in_o that_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o here_o to_o avoid_v all_o sophistication_n of_o our_o adversary_n note_v that_o i_o speak_v here_o only_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n according_a to_o its_o visible_a form_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o visible_a and_o extern_a vocation_n mission_n admission_n and_o election_n of_o minister_n so_o i_o say_v every_o church_n choose_v i._n e._n elect_v its_o own_o minister_n but_o it_o call_v they_o not_o nor_o send_v they_o it_o give_v they_o not_o their_o general_a vocation_n nor_o mission_n into_o the_o ministry_n but_o that_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la according_a to_o the_o exigence_n of_o time_n and_o place_n to_o particular_a minister_n not_o in_o quality_n of_o minister_n of_o particular_a congregation_n but_o of_o great_a consociation_n in_o a_o representative_a body_n of_o many_o particular_a church_n so_o a_o minister_n in_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o god_n by_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n to_o judge_v rule_n and_o feed_v many_o church_n positis_fw-la ponendio_fw-la &_o ut_fw-la poni_fw-la debent_fw-la so_o as_o nothing_o thereunto_o requisite_a be_v want_v but_o all_o order_a as_o it_o shall_v viz._n if_o it_o be_v by_o consent_n or_o election_n of_o his_o particular_a church_n and_o he_o be_v admit_v by_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n whereunto_o he_o be_v send_v etc._n etc._n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v in_o our_o reform_a church_n master_n well-willer_n repli_v again_o that_o episcopacy_n be_v as_o intrinsical_v to_o particular_a church_n as_o the_o presbyteric_a since_o bishop_n be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n at_o their_o instalment_n where_o customary_o people_n be_v allow_v to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n answ_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v as_o intrinsical_v and_o that_o for_o the_o reason_n bring_v by_o the_o commissioner_n as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o bring_v for_o confirmation_n thereof_o viz._n because_o they_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n i_o answer_v 1._o it_o be_v not_o enough_o they_o have_v their_o election_n from_o the_o people_n but_o they_o must_v also_o have_v their_o vocation_n and_o mission_n from_o the_o church_n in_o the_o name_n and_o authority_n of_o christ_n which_o they_o have_v not_o according_a to_o this_o well-willer_n own_o tenet_n 2._o because_o the_o people_n can_v make_v no_o church_n officer_n and_o principal_o minister_n since_o they_o have_v not_o the_o ability_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o learning_n and_o gift_n 3._o in_o choose_v of_o a_o archbishop_n it_o be_v not_o moral_o possible_a that_o all_o the_o people_n can_v elect_v he_o and_o especial_o when_o he_o be_v a_o great_a archbishop_n or_o a_o primate_n over_o a_o whole_a kingdom_n for_o all_o the_o people_n can_v well_o meet_v together_o 4._o and_o howbeit_o they_o can_v meet_v yet_o can_v not_o their_o consent_n and_o voice_n easy_o be_v gather_v 5._o it_o be_v a_o ridiculous_a thing_n in_o choose_v of_o he_o to_o seek_v the_o consent_n and_o voice_n of_o every_o idle_a and_o ignorant_a fellow_n yea_o of_o woman_n that_o be_v of_o the_o people_n 6._o neither_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o choose_v a_o bishop_n to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n for_o that_o be_v not_o to_o elect_v he_o but_o to_o hinder_v his_o election_n 7._o neither_o be_v this_o ordinary_o practise_v 8._o and_o master_n well-willer_n to_o the_o bishop_n here_o confess_v in_o the_o next_o line_n that_o it_o have_v have_v little_a success_n but_o master_n well-willer_n confirm_v it_o out_o of_o that_o ordinary_a passage_n of_o hieronymus_n to_o avoid_v schism_n one_o of_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n be_v choose_v to_o be_v as_o chair_n man_n answ_n 1._o such_o a_o bishop_n be_v not_o a_o english_a or_o papist_n bishop_n but_o a_o moderator_n of_o the_o action_n or_o a_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n which_o will_v not_o make_v up_o a_o bishop_n in_o so_o far_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v distinguish_v from_o a_o ordinary_a minister_n for_o you_o yourselves_o pretend_v to_o have_v your_o synod_n which_o can_v be_v without_o some_o moderator_n precedent_n or_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n and_o yet_o you_o deny_v that_o you_o have_v any_o bishop_n or_o episcopal_a government_n 2._o neither_o be_v bishop_n annual_o 3._o to_o be_v short_a master_n well-willer_n bring_v we_o here_o no_o real_a but_o imaginary_a bishop_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o utopia_n viz._n that_o be_v only_a master_n of_o the_o chair_n annual_a etc._n etc._n 4._o item_n who_o chancellor_n archdeacon_n etc._n etc._n be_v parishioner_n 5._o their_o chancellor_n be_v not_o ordinary_o ecclesiastical_a but_o layman_n as_o you_o call_v they_o who_o nevertheless_o judge_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n which_o you_o ordinary_o blame_v 6._o neither_o have_v they_o vocation_n from_o god_n as_o you_o confess_v neither_o be_v they_o choose_v by_o all_o the_o church_n that_o they_o rule_v and_o feed_v if_o any_o food_n they_o give_v and_o feed_v not_o themselves_o with_o the_o fat_a of_o the_o people_n you_o be_v also_o too_o bold_a master_n well-willer_n to_o say_v that_o the_o people_n former_o have_v be_v as_o willing_a they_o shall_v reign_v as_o ever_o any_o people_n be_v in_o your_o kingdom_n to_o have_v the_o presbytery_n ever_o they_o answ_n we_o can_v show_v you_o hundred_o yea_o thousand_o who_o have_v cutle_v their_o government_n both_o in_o england_n and_o in_o ireland_n and_o what_o have_v be_v the_o good_a will_n of_o the_o scot_n towards_o they_o they_o can_v best_o tell_v themselves_o as_o have_v feel_v it_o these_o four_o or_o five_o year_n last_o pass_v but_o as_o for_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n you_o have_v never_o hear_v the_o people_n murmur_n much_o less_o rise_v up_o against_o it_o 2._o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o you_o have_v find_v they_o so_o sweet_a what_o need_v you_o run_v away_o and_o desert_n the_o church_n here_o they_o do_v compel_v minister_n and_o churchwarden_n to_o do_v many_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o in_o case_n of_o refufall_n do_v ordinary_o undo_v they_o as_o we_o can_v produce_v many_o example_n both_o in_o england_n and_o ireland_n yea_o of_o the_o independenter_n themselves_o before_o that_o they_o speak_v this_o way_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n the_o like_a of_o this_o can_v without_o singular_a impudence_n be_v say_v to_o have_v be_v any_o where_o practise_v by_o any_o scot_n presbytery_n we_o grant_v you_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o people_n consent_n only_o but_o if_o according_a to_o the_o word_n that_o make_v a_o government_n lawful_a but_o wherefore_o may_v not_o a_o congregationall_a representative_a church_n as_o well_o choose_v man_n for_o classical_a assembly_n as_o for_o synod_n what_o pattern_n have_v you_o for_o the_o one_o rather_o then_o for_o the_o other_o to_o all_o this_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a custom_n you_o say_v much_o but_o prove_v little_a or_o nothing_o of_o what_o be_v in_o dispute_n betwixt_o we_o many_o book_n you_o make_v but_o little_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o now_o when_o you_o can_v do_v no_o better_o you_o can_v yourselves_o most_o desperate_o on_o the_o bishop_n side_n to_o maintain_v their_o cause_n when_o you_o be_v yet_o too_o weak_a to_o maintain_v your_o own_o this_o well-willer_n in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n wish_n that_o the_o commissioner_n golden_a speech_n be_v write_v upon_o all_o their_o action_n viz._n that_o those_o that_o be_v most_o averse_a to_o presbytery_n if_o they_o allow_v no_o matertall_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n or_o practice_n may_v enjoy_v their_o peace_n and_o all_o comfort_n of_o their_o ministry_n and_o profession_n under_o it_o without_o controllment_n of_o that_o authoritative_a power_n which_o they_o so_o much_o apprehend_v and_o thereunto_o repli_v we_o have_v say_v he_o be_v of_o late_o make_v to_o fear_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o report_n of_o some_o not_o of_o the_o mean_a rank_n rf_v your_o own_o nation_n answ_n no_o godly_a man_n that_o know_v what_o be_v presbyterian_a government_n can_v doubt_v of_o it_o for_o according_a to_o the_o rule_v thereof_o 1._o no_o man_n be_v compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o own_o conscience_n 2._o if_o you_o will_v be_v under_o it_o and_o allow_v no_o material_a difference_n etc._n etc._n without_o doubt_v the_o synod_n and_o all_o orthodox_n church_n will_v cherish_v you_o and_o assure_v you_o of_o it_o but_o if_o you_o will_v ever_o live_v in_o panic_n fear_n and_o be_v so_o witty_a as_o evermore_o to_o find_v out_o new_a matter_n of_o jealousy_n to_o vex_v your_o own_o soul_n and_o make_v you_o to_o live_v in_o such_o a_o perpetual_a diffidence_n all_o the_o force_n of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o three_o kingdom_n be_v not_o able_a to_o hinder_v it_o you_o must_v trust_v in_o god_n and_o admit_v of_o such_o security_n from_o your_o brethren_n as_o moral_o you_o can_v have_v if_o this_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o advise_v you_o as_o for_o that_o anonymous_n countryman_n of_o we_o who_o he_o can_v be_v and_o if_o any_o such_o be_v and_o whether_o his_o discourse_n with_o you_o can_v give_v you_o matter_n of_o just_a fear_n we_o know_v not_o and_o therefore_o forbear_v to_o answer_v only_o i_o wish_v serious_o on_o your_o behalf_n you_o will_v do_v nothing_o against_o the_o glory_n of_o your_o god_n the_o weal_n of_o your_o country_n or_o to_o the_o breach_n of_o charity_n with_o your_o brethren_n who_o so_o much_o desire_n to_o live_v in_o peace_n with_o you_o all_o the_o peace_n of_o god_n be_v with_o you_o all_o amen_n finis_fw-la
trouble_v the_o assembly_n very_o little_a with_o any_o reply_n to_o what_o they_o answer_v you_o but_o will_v you_o our_o well-willer_n either_o give_v we_o or_o let_v we_o give_v you_o some_o position_n upon_o this_o subject_a that_o we_o may_v receive_v of_o you_o some_o edification_n in_o particular_a at_o least_o if_o we_o can_v have_v it_o in_o public_a here_o i_o offer_v you_o a_o man_n to_o discuss_v whatsoever_o position_n you_o please_v in_o all_o point_n wherein_o you_o dissent_v from_o all_o protestant_n and_o christian_a church_n and_o since_o you_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n of_o it_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o some_o have_v be_v very_o desirous_a to_o have_v have_v some_o access_n to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v have_v receive_v some_o edification_n of_o they_o and_o have_v know_v their_o opinion_n but_o find_v they_o evermore_o inaccessible_a so_o desirous_a be_v they_o it_o shall_v seem_v to_o hide_v their_o opinion_n as_o for_o your_o prodromus_n which_o you_o say_v have_v not_o deserve_v to_o be_v whip_v if_o the_o parliament_n permit_v any_o of_o the_o assembly_n differ_v one_o from_o another_o in_o opinion_n to_o present_v their_o judgement_n with_o their_o reason_n unto_o the_o house_n you_o can_v judge_v it_o a_o crime_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o be_v already_o answer_v by_o the_o author_n of_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n 2._o this_o proposition_n be_v conditional_a and_o whoever_o have_v the_o least_o tincture_n in_o logic_n know_v that_o conditionalis_fw-la propositio_fw-la nil_fw-la ponit_fw-la in_o re_fw-la nisi_fw-la positâ_fw-la conditione_n 3._o and_o if_o the_o parliament_n permit_v it_o not_o in_o this_o your_o foolish_a fashion_n what_o will_v you_o say_v 4._o what_o if_o very_a wise_a parliament_n man_n already_o say_v that_o if_o in_o the_o general_n counsel_n every_o one_o that_o differ_v in_o opinion_n one_o from_o another_o have_v write_v book_n one_o against_o another_o they_o shall_v rather_o have_v be_v hold_v for_o counsel_n of_o fool_n then_o of_o wise_a man_n 5._o and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o as_o you_o say_v wherefore_o i_o pray_v shall_v not_o the_o scotch_a commissioner_n have_v write_v against_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n since_o they_o differ_v in_o opinion_n from_o the_o apologist_n and_o so_o much_o the_o rather_o be_v that_o they_o be_v calumniate_v by_o they_o he_o complain_v also_o of_o their_o bitterness_n and_o i_o on_o the_o other_o side_n wonder_n at_o their_o patience_n and_o meekness_n that_o they_o have_v so_o little_a gall_n against_o innovator_n calumniate_a the_o government_n of_o all_o protestant_n yea_o of_o all_o christian_a church_n except_o their_o own_o conventicle_n as_o destitute_a of_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n and_o as_o papist_n and_o lutheran_n defame_v they_o with_o nickname_n as_o calvinian_o etc._n etc._n p._n 3._o he_o ask_v the_o author_n of_o the_o reformation_n clear_v if_o they_o think_v that_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o quinque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la be_v dark_a answ_n who_o these_o elder_n of_o the_o quinque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la can_v be_v i_o know_v not_o i_o have_v read_v in_o the_o revelation_n of_o the_o angel_n of_o 7_o ecclesiae_fw-la in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n de_fw-fr dudithio_n episcopo_fw-la quinqu_n '_o ecclesiensi_fw-la and_o of_o a_o town_n in_o hungaria_n name_v quinque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la at_o this_o present_a under_o mahomet_n and_o by_o the_o turk_n name_v porsheu_fw-la and_o by_o the_o german_n funs-kirchen_a but_o of_o any_o protestant_a quinq_fw-fr '_o ecclesian_n elder_n i_o never_o hear_v or_o read_v of_o before_o this_o neither_o know_v i_o what_o he_o can_v mean_v by_o they_o but_o the_o five_o independent_a minister_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o hitherto_o i_o never_o hear_v design_v by_o such_o a_o name_n or_o title_n and_o if_o these_o be_v they_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o commissioner_n say_v not_o that_o they_o be_v dark_a but_o those_o who_o in_o the_o dark_a be_v afraid_a of_o that_o which_o they_o know_v not_o now_o light_n may_v be_v in_o darkness_n neither_o can_v he_o apply_v this_o to_o these_o presbyter_n or_o to_o himself_o unless_o he_o find_v in_o himself_o there_o be_v conscia_fw-la mens_fw-la the_o commissioner_n add_v for_o explication_n of_o themselves_o and_o suffer_v their_o affection_n to_o run_v before_o their_o understanding_n the_o well-willer_n repli_v be_v we_o not_o moral_a man_n voluntas_fw-la vult_fw-la ut_fw-la intellectus_fw-la intelligit_fw-la to_o understand_v first_o and_o affect_v after_o answ_n master_n well-willer_n if_o your_o affection_n may_v be_v judge_v of_o by_o your_o action_n certain_o they_o be_v so_o independent_a that_o they_o will_v not_o be_v tie_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o philosophy_n to_o depend_v upon_o the_o understanding_n 〈…〉_o understand_v first_o &_o to_o affect_v after_o and_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o s_o 〈…〉_o from_o scripture_n that_o if_o a_o man_n be_v not_o a_o very_a gracious_a i_o say_v not_o a_o moral_a man_n he_o will_v ready_o understand_v as_o he_o affect_v rather_o than_o affect_v as_o he_o understand_v 2._o that_o maxim_n of_o philosophy_n strike_v not_o at_o all_o at_o the_o commissioner_n expression_n they_o say_v that_o their_o affection_n run_v before_o their_o understanding_n and_o not_o that_o their_o will_n run_v before_o their_o understanding_n now_o will_n and_o affection_n be_v two_o thing_n the_o one_o in_o the_o reasonable_a soul_n the_o other_o in_o the_o appetite_n unless_o with_o the_o old_a philosopher_n as_o aristotler_n elate_v of_o they_o 150._o l._n 3_o de_fw-la anima_fw-la cap._n 3._o tex_fw-la 150._o you_o will_v confound_v mentem_fw-la cum_fw-la sensu_fw-la and_o consequent_o voluntatem_fw-la cum_fw-la appetitu_fw-la &_o so_o make_v man_n soul_n mortal_a as_o the_o late_a author_n of_o the_o mortality_n of_o the_o soul_n 2._o or_o if_o you_o take_v the_o affection_n in_o a_o more_o large_a but_o less_o proper_a signification_n as_o it_o signify_v also_o the_o inclination_n and_o movement_n of_o the_o will_n than_o they_o understand_v not_o thereby_o the_o consult_v deliberate_v &_o advise_v but_o the_o rash_a inconsiderate_a precipitate_a and_o indeliberate_a action_n of_o the_o will_n otherwise_o call_v the_o first_o movement_n of_o the_o will_n motus_fw-la primo_fw-la primi_fw-la qui_fw-la omne_fw-la judicium_fw-la rationis_fw-la antevertunt_fw-la which_o attend_v not_o but_o prevent_v the_o judgement_n of_o reason_n i_o e._n the_o deliberation_n and_o examen_fw-la of_o the_o understanding_n and_o in_o these_o movement_n it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o affection_n go_v before_o the_o understanding_n for_o in_o such_o movement_n the_o sensitive_a appetite_n which_o be_v lead_v by_o the_o sense_n mislead_v the_o understanding_n not_o formal_o but_o objectiuè_fw-la in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o draw_v with_o it_o the_o fancy_n or_o imagination_n who_o phantasmata_fw-la or_o image_n determine_v the_o understanding_n in_o its_o judgement_n &_o it_o be_v so_o determine_v sudden_o without_o any_o moral_a deliberation_n determine_v the_o will_n but_o so_o the_o will_n be_v say_v to_o affect_v without_o judgement_n i._n e._n without_o that_o deliberative_a judgement_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o your_o moral_a man_n or_o rather_o to_o the_o moral_a action_n of_o his_o will_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n the_o poet_n say_v scilicet_fw-la insano_fw-la nemo_fw-la in_o amore_fw-la videt_fw-la boetius_fw-la the_o martyr_n quis_fw-la leges_fw-la det_fw-la amantibus_fw-la major_a lex_fw-la amor_fw-la est_fw-la sibi_fw-la and_o seneca_n quod_fw-la ratio_fw-la poscit_fw-la vincit_fw-la at_o regnat_fw-la furor_fw-la potensque_fw-la tota_fw-la ment_fw-la dominatur_fw-la deus_fw-la so_o aristotle_n qualis_fw-la cuique_fw-la est_fw-la talis_fw-la ei_fw-la finis_fw-la esse_fw-la videtur_fw-la neque_fw-la eadem_fw-la videntur_fw-la amantibus_fw-la &_o â—dio_fw-la habentibus_fw-la so_o shall_v you_o have_v take_v this_o judicious_a expression_n of_o the_o commissioner_n 3._o item_n the_o will_n in_o actionibus_fw-la suis_fw-la imperatis_fw-la whereof_o some_o be_v act_n of_o the_o understanding_n must_v go_v before_o the_o understanding_n for_o the_o understanding_n must_v command_v before_o that_o the_o understanding_n can_v obey_v 4._o the_o action_n of_o the_o understanding_n that_o be_v not_o involuntary_a but_o voluntary_a or_o willing_a must_v follow_v the_o will_n for_o voluntarium_fw-la belong_v first_o to_o the_o will_n and_o by_o the_o will_n to_o the_o other_o faculty_n 5._o original_a sin_n also_o ill_a habitude_n custom_n and_o violent_a passion_n hinder_v the_o will_n from_o follow_v the_o understanding_n and_o make_v it_o some_o time_n to_o miscarry_v against_o the_o light_n of_o the_o understanding_n 6._o albeit_o the_o will_n in_o its_o movement_n presuppose_v necessary_o some_o judgement_n of_o the_o understanding_n yet_o this_o judgement_n necessary_o presuppose_v move_v it_o not_o necessary_o for_o it_o may_v be_v as_o well_o move_v and_o direct_v by_o another_o judgement_n that_o move_v it_o not_o to_o the_o contrary_a action_n whereunto_o
shall_v he_o not_o be_v excommunicate_v for_o it_o shall_v his_o ignorance_n excuse_v he_o be_v not_o his_o ignorance_n a_o sin_n and_o especial_o when_o it_o be_v concomitant_a or_o subsequent_a to_o some_o other_o sin_n or_o action_n of_o the_o will_n when_o he_o have_v procure_v it_o to_o himself_o or_o when_o he_o use_v not_o moral_a diligence_n enough_o to_o chase_v it_o away_o shall_v or_o can_v the_o ignorance_n of_o the_o law_n or_o of_o his_o duty_n which_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o know_v excuse_v he_o or_o free_v he_o from_o excommunication_n be_v not_o that_o socinianism_n arminianism_n judge_v you_o master_n doctor_n and_o answer_v not_o with_o complaint_n &_o lamentable_a interjection_n as_o if_o you_o will_v rather_o be_v pity_v then_o bind_v to_o prove_v any_o thing_n you_o say_v pay_v we_o not_o with_o generality_n and_o individuum_fw-la vagum_n but_o signatum_n answer_v i_o pray_v you_o to_o the_o point_n all_o the_o authority_n that_o this_o master_n doctor_n well-willer_n can_v bring_v for_o himself_o p._n 11._o and_o 12._o be_v a_o morellus_n and_o some_o other_o excommunicate_v minister_n in_o france_n which_o yet_o he_o have_v borrow_v from_o the_o clear_v reformation_n as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v p._n 13._o §_o 2._o that_o a_o bishop_n be_v a_o presbytery_n contract_v and_o a_o presbytery_n a_o bishop_n diffuse_v 1._o it_o be_v but_o one_o of_o the_o separatist_n ordinary_a jeer_n against_o presbyterian_a government_n 2._o they_o prove_v it_o not_o 3._o the_o commissioner_n answer_v it_o p._n 25._o 4._o and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o yet_o presbyterian_a aristocracy_n shall_v be_v admit_v since_o it_o be_v god_n ordinance_n but_o nor_o episcopacy_n since_o it_o be_v not_o god_n ordinance_n 5._o among_o the_o helvetian_o if_o one_o man_n shall_v go_v and_o contrive_v into_o his_o own_o person_n all_o the_o authority_n which_o be_v diffuse_v among_o all_o the_o ruler_n there_o think_v you_o that_o they_o will_v endure_v he_o or_o rather_o not_o put_v he_o to_o death_n as_o a_o tyrant_n and_o a_o traitor_n according_a to_o his_o demerit_n the_o very_a contrivance_n of_o authority_n into_o one_o person_n which_o god_n have_v diffuse_v in_o many_o be_v unjust_a and_o tyrannical_a in_o god_n church_n but_o the_o doctor_n object_v that_o in_o forbear_v excommunication_n i_o believe_v he_o understand_v the_o great_a they_o leave_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbytery_n do_v answ_n this_o the_o doctor_n say_v but_o prove_v it_o not_o and_o therefore_o we_o deny_v it_o with_o the_o like_a facility_n that_o he_o propound_v it_o our_o reason_n be_v because_o when_o a_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n cease_v not_o for_o all_o that_o to_o punish_v he_o civil_o for_o the_o presbytery_n by_o excommunication_n exile_v or_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o church_n society_n notwithstanding_o which_o he_o remain_v in_o the_o state_n society_n and_o if_o his_o sin_n be_v against_o the_o state_n and_o deserve_v it_o the_o magistrate_n may_v exile_v he_o and_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o state_n society_n or_o of_o the_o kingdom_n but_o not_o out_o of_o the_o church_n no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n may_v cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n as_o for_o your_o comparison_n in_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o english_a heart_n that_o speak_v so_o it_o be_v but_o a_o sophistical_a evasion_n seditious_o to_o clude_v their_o argument_n whereunto_o you_o can_v bring_v so_o much_o as_o a_o probable_a solution_n so_o you_o grant_v what_o they_o say_v neither_o be_v our_o dispute_n here_o about_o english_a scot_n or_o french_a but_o about_o christian_a heart_n and_o conscience_n it_o be_v a_o shame_n to_o a_o english_a man_n to_o be_v author_n of_o schism_n in_o his_o own_o country_n when_o stranger_n employ_v all_o their_o endeavour_n for_o union_n and_o peace_n both_o in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n but_o this_o i_o leave_v and_o pray_v you_o to_o tell_v we_o what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o we_o whether_o it_o be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a power_n and_o wherein_o whether_o to_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n or_o discipline_n remember_v sir_n that_o in_o speak_v of_o new_a england_n 8._o p._n 8._o you_o give_v they_o nothing_o else_o but_o god_n word_n for_o church_n government_n and_o the_o king_n patent_n for_o what_o they_o do_v in_o policy_n and_o tell_v we_o if_o ever_o they_o follow_v the_o king_n or_o his_o counsel_n direction_n in_o church_n policy_n item_n tell_v we_o whether_o it_o be_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n officer_n part_n to_o erect_v church_n government_n and_o to_o make_v the_o law_n thereof_o to_o judge_v according_a to_o the_o same_o and_o to_o put_v they_o in_o execution_n &_o c_o here_o he_o tell_v we_o also_o or_o object_v that_o excommunication_n have_v need_n of_o better_a ground_n than_o man_n sin_v of_o simplicity_n or_o ignorance_n answ_n so_o the_o ignorance_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o deny_v of_o his_o merit_n shall_v not_o incur_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n he_o object_v that_o the_o punishment_n of_o excommunication_n for_o small_a fault_n will_v make_v the_o punishment_n at_o last_o small_a in_o the_o eye_n of_o man_n answ_n it_o be_v true_a but_o be_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v inflict_v for_o small_a fault_n but_o to_o clear_v more_o this_o matter_n two_o thing_n be_v needful_a to_o be_v expound_v the_o first_o be_v what_o the_o independent_o understand_v by_o great_a sin_n the_o second_o what_o they_o understand_v by_o the_o party_n know_v light_n three_o what_o by_o christianity_n fourthly_a what_o by_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n fift_o what_o by_o the_o church_n as_o for_o the_o first_o a_o sin_n may_v be_v great_a either_o quoad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la or_o quoad_fw-la entitatem_fw-la according_a to_o its_o essence_n or_o entity_n or_o as_o it_o be_v its_o quantity_n that_o sin_n be_v say_v to_o be_v great_a than_o another_o according_a to_o its_o essence_n the_o species_n whereof_o degenerate_v most_o from_o the_o divine_a rule_n of_o god_n law_n such_o as_o be_v the_o sin_n that_o be_v great_a in_o regard_n of_o their_o object_n so_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n to_o offend_v god_n then_o man_n because_o it_o include_v in_o itself_o a_o great_a objective_n deformity_n than_o the_o other_o but_o a_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o according_a to_o its_o entity_n or_o quantity_n that_o have_v great_a extension_n intention_n or_o duration_n i._n e._n more_o part_n more_o degree_n and_o of_o a_o long_a continuance_n than_o another_o by_o extension_n or_o more_o part_n i_o understand_v either_o objective_n or_o formal_a part_n viz._n when_o a_o sin_n be_v commit_v against_o more_o person_n as_o the_o sin_n commit_v against_o twenty_o be_v great_a than_o that_o commit_v against_o two_o or_o have_v more_o material_a object_n as_o when_o one_o steal_v more_o money_n viz._n two_o pound_n it_o be_v a_o great_a fin_n then_o to_o steal_v two_o penny_n so_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o formal_a pert_n or_o act_n wherein_o formal_o sin_n consift_v if_o they_o be_v take_v in_o concreto_fw-la when_o a_o man_n return_v oftentimes_o to_o the_o same_o sin_n as_o he_o who_o steal_v ten_o time_n be_v a_o far_o great_a sinner_n than_o he_o that_o steal_v but_o only_o once_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o intention_n or_o degree_n of_o sin_n that_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o wherein_o there_o be_v more_o degree_n as_o when_o it_o be_v commit_v more_o willing_o with_o greaterliberty_n with_o great_a violence_n with_o great_a knowledge_n item_n by_o he_o that_o have_v great_a help_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o nature_n to_o resist_v it_o and_o to_o produce_v the_o opposite_a effect_n of_o virtue_n final_o that_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o in_o duration_n that_o continue_v long_a so_o a_o sin_n may_v be_v great_a than_o another_o quoad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la and_o less_o quoadentitatem_fw-la or_o essential_o great_a but_o entitative_o or_o in_o quantity_n less_o than_o another_o and_o on_o the_o contrary_n great_a than_o another_o quoad_fw-la entitatem_fw-la or_o in_o regard_n of_o its_o quantity_n but_o not_o great_a essential_o for_o example_n if_o a_o man_n sin_n against_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o first_o table_n in_o not_o love_v god_n with_o all_o his_o heart_n &_o be_v sorry_a therefore_o and_o against_o his_o father_n not_o only_o in_o not_o love_v he_o as_o himself_o but_o also_o in_o abuse_v he_o willing_o and_o offer_v he_o violence_n without_o any_o remorse_n of_o conscience_n the_o first_o sin_n be_v great_a essentialiter_fw-la but_o the_o last_o be_v great_a entitatiuè_n so_o some_o schoolman_n say_v that_o faith_n be_v more_o certain_a than_o any_o
natural_a science_n quoad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la but_o that_o natural_a science_n and_o the_o habitude_n of_o natural_a principle_n be_v more_o certain_a quoad_fw-la entitatem_fw-la and_o this_o distinction_n be_v observe_v it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o that_o a_o sin_n that_o be_v great_a essential_o may_v not_o deserve_v excommunication_n and_o that_o which_o be_v less_o deserve_v it_o so_o that_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independenter_n will_v not_o hold_v universal_o as_o for_o the_o party_n know_v light_n or_o knowledge_n it_o be_v either_o speculative_a which_o of_o itself_o direct_v not_o the_o will_n in_o its_o practice_n or_o action_n as_o to_o know_v that_o there_o be_v three_o person_n in_o the_o trinity_n or_o practical_a which_o direct_v the_o will_n in_o its_o action_n in_o dictate_v unto_o it_o to_o do_v good_a and_o to_o fly_v evil_a this_o be_v either_o general_n as_o in_o general_a to_o know_v that_o good_a shall_v be_v do_v or_o particular_a as_o when_o it_o dictate_v that_o this_o good_a shall_v be_v do_v and_o then_o either_o it_o be_v practical_a in_o part_n or_o imperfect_a or_o altogether_o absolute_o and_o perfect_o which_o when_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v be_v well_o examine_v according_a to_o its_o substance_n and_o all_o its_o circumstance_n it_o dictate_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v do_v here_o in_o this_o place_n by_o i_o in_o this_o time_n notwithstanding_o this_o opposition_n etc._n etc._n and_o this_o ordinary_o in_o the_o school_n be_v call_v cognitio_fw-la practicè_fw-la practica_fw-la a_o knowledge_n practical_o practical_a i.e._n altogether_o practical_a now_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v of_o which_o of_o these_o several_a sort_n of_o light_n or_o of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o party_n this_o doctor_n speak_v otherwise_o we_o can_v understand_v he_o in_o the_o 3._o and_o 5._o difficulty_n we_o wish_v that_o our_o brethren_n will_v declare_v unto_o we_o whether_o by_o christianity_n and_o the_o church_n they_o understand_v all_o those_o who_o profess_v christianity_n in_o name_n or_o those_o only_o who_o profess_v it_o real_o and_o in_o effect_n and_o then_o whether_o all_o those_o who_o hold_v their_o fundamentalia_fw-la or_o essentialia_fw-la only_o or_o if_o they_o will_v they_o not_o to_o stand_v in_o mere_a fundamental_a point_n but_o also_o require_v that_o they_o pass_v unto_o their_o superstructory_n and_o how_o far_o item_n that_o they_o will_v distinguish_v between_o their_o fundamental_a and_o superstructory_a point_n in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o manner_n for_o this_o be_v the_o whole_a foundation_n and_o ground_n of_o this_o their_o debate_n otherwise_o all_o that_o they_o say_v be_v but_o so_o many_o evasion_n and_o we_o can_v know_v wherein_o they_o dissent_v from_o we_o or_o what_o they_o will_v be_v at_o item_n whether_o by_o the_o word_n church_n they_o understand_v any_o church_n or_o multitude_n that_o lay_v claim_v to_o this_o name_n or_o the_o true_a church_n or_o the_o pure_a church_n and_o than_o whether_o pure_a in_o their_o fundamentalia_fw-la only_o or_o also_o in_o their_o superstructory_n as_o for_o the_o 4._o difficulty_n common_a receive_v practice_n in_o christianity_n be_v of_o as_o large_a a_o extent_n as_o christianity_n or_o the_o christian_a church_n and_o may_v signify_v practice_n common_a to_o all_o church_n either_o nominal_o or_o real_o or_o common_a to_o the_o only_a real_a and_o true_a christian_a church_n either_o in_o fundamental_a point_n only_o or_o also_o in_o superstructory_n or_o common_a to_o all_o pure_a church_n only_o the_o doctor_n then_o and_o his_o sect_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v be_v understand_v by_o we_o who_o they_o oppose_v must_v clear_o expound_v we_o what_o they_o mean_v by_o these_o word_n and_o expression_n but_o to_o cut_v off_o all_o sort_n of_o sophistication_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o to_o the_o point_n i_o will_v press_v and_o urge_v they_o more_o close_o in_o this_o fashion_n either_o our_o brethren_n in_o this_o point_n about_o sin_n and_o sinner_n who_o be_v the_o adequate_a object_n of_o excommunication_n agree_v with_o we_o or_o disagree_v from_o we_o if_o they_o grant_v the_o first_o what_o need_v all_o this_o dispute_n and_o contentiones_fw-la they_o fight_v but_o with_o their_o own_o shadow_n if_o the_o second_o let_v they_o show_v we_o wherein_o we_o disagree_v and_o either_o we_o shall_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n or_o render_v ourselves_o to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d in_o case_n we_o be_v go_v astray_o from_o it_o but_o to_o generality_n we_o can_v answer_v neither_o be_v it_o christianly_o do_v by_o pretend_a reform_a and_o reformer_n to_o cast_v such_o general_a filthy_a aspersion_n upon_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n when_o as_o they_o can_v particularize_v nothing_o at_o all_o the_o lord_n lie_v it_o not_o unto_o their_o charge_n in_o that_o great_a day_n when_o all_o such_o caption_n and_o sophistication_n shall_v be_v in_o no_o request_n there_o be_v two_o main_a objection_n which_o ordinary_o the_o independent_o propound_v against_o the_o government_n of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o namely_o of_o that_o of_o scotland_n the_o commissioner_n from_o pag._n 2._o §_o 2._o to_o the_o end_n of_o their_o book_n propound_v they_o in_o as_o great_a force_n as_o possible_o they_o can_v have_v and_o dissolve_v they_o both_o so_o strong_o and_o evident_o that_o it_o be_v a_o wonder_n how_o this_o well-willer_n have_v any_o stomach_n to_o reply_v the_o doctor_n also_o bring_v they_o from_o p._n 14._o §_o 2._o to_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n where_o he_o travail_v so_o slender_o to_o justify_v they_o that_o he_o seem_v willing_o desirous_a to_o be_v condemn_v only_o rather_o then_o to_o be_v think_v a_o desertor_n of_o the_o cause_n he_o will_v rather_o answer_v impertinent_o then_o to_o quit_v his_o brethren_n the_o first_o argument_n put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o partioular_a church_n one_o to_o another_o and_o protestation_n of_o one_o against_o another_o and_o the_o withdraw_n of_o communion_n one_o from_o another_o especial_o when_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n there_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o necessary_a but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o militant_a church_n there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particular_a church_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o militant_a church_n the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v not_o necessary_a the_o assumption_n be_v certain_a the_o proof_n of_o the_o connexion_n of_o the_o first_o proposition_n may_v be_v thus_o where_o there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o no_o less_o effectual_a against_o all_o offence_n than_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n there_o a_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o necessary_a but_o where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particucular_a church_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o no_o less_o effectual_a against_o all_o offence_n than_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n ergo_fw-la where_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v exhortation_n of_o particular_a church_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o the_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n synod_n or_o of_o excommunication_n they_o prove_v the_o assumption_n here_o for_o he_o who_o will_n or_o dare_v condemn_v the_o one_o will_v not_o care_v for_o the_o other_o unless_o the_o magistrate_n authority_n intervene_v answ_n the_o commissioner_n answer_v 1._o that_o this_o argument_n suppose_v a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o have_v never_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n or_o any_o other_o reform_a church_n except_o those_o of_o the_o separation_n who_o propound_v the_o argument_n viz._n the_o pronounce_v of_o non-communion_n or_o excommunication_n against_o a_o whole_a church_n and_o we_o hope_v such_o a_o case_n never_o shall_v fall_v out_o now_o law_n be_v make_v for_o case_n that_o be_v ordinary_a and_o not_o for_o these_o that_o be_v extraordinary_a the_o doctor_n reply_v that_o they_o speak_v not_o one_o word_n to_o extenuate_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n rep._n but_o in_o deprive_v they_o of_o their_o authoritative_a power_n which_o be_v their_o form_n they_o extenuate_v their_o authority_n yea_o they_o destroy_v their_o essence_n for_o without_o a_o authoritative_a power_n they_o sit_v in_o quality_n of_o private_a person_n only_o or_o of_o minister_n gather_v together_o by_o chance_n or_o otherways_o and_o not_o in_o quality_n of_o synod_n or_o rather_o as_o the_o commissioner_n answer_v most_o judicious_o and_o clear_o in_o this_o exhortation_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v find_v then_o one_o particular_a member_n may_v do_v against_o another_o which_o yet_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o
be_v insufficient_a for_o remove_v of_o offence_n unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o which_o both_o of_o they_o be_v member_n shall_v intervene_v the_o doctor_n repli_v that_o beside_o exhortation_n protestation_n and_o non-communion_n they_o professo_fw-la themselves_z ever_o to_o submit_v and_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n inst_z this_o profession_n of_o submission_n be_v either_o voluntary_a depend_v of_o their_o own_o free_a will_n or_o by_o necessity_n of_o obligation_n whereunto_o they_o be_v subject_a by_o law_n if_o they_o choose_v the_o first_o it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o number_n of_o waterman_n tinker_n and_o cobbler_n may_v do_v of_o them-selve_n by_o a_o particular_a convention_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o juris_fw-la divini_fw-la as_o they_o pretend_v their_o government_n to_o be_v but_o humani_fw-la depend_v of_o their_o own_o fancy_n and_o to_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o most_o absurd_a 1._o for_o that_o power_n of_o the_o clvill_n magistrate_n be_v not_o intrinsical_v but_o extrinsecall_v unto_o the_o church_n but_o we_o speak_v only_o of_o the_o power_n that_o be_v intrinsical_v and_o proper_a to_o the_o church_n and_o so_o must_v our_o brethren_n also_o if_o they_o will_v speak_v rational_o 2._o in_o so_o do_v they_o make_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n judge_n of_o ecclesiastical_a controversy_n in_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v hold_v when_o he_o be_v a_o infidel_n a_o antichristian_a etc._n etc._n whereof_o see_v more_o in_o the_o commissioner_n answer_v and_o in_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n 3._o in_o so_o do_v you_o make_v the_o churcle_n power_n subordinate_a to_o civil_a power_n which_o can_v be_v for_o subordination_n be_v betwixt_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n or_o sort_n but_o such_o be_v not_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n which_o be_v opposite_a or_o rather_o contradistinguish_v or_o difference_v one_o from_o another_o as_o thing_n destinate_a to_o or_o different_a end_n the_o one_o spiritual_a and_o the_o othertemporall_a 2._o he_o complain_v that_o the_o commissioner_n call_v they_o these_o of_o the_o separation_n unless_o withal_o they_o express_v they_o mean_v the_o separation_n from_o the_o prolate_v way_n as_o scotland_n and_o england_n now_o do_v answ_n yea_o but_o they_o separate_v themselves_o also_o from_o the_o sacramental_a communion_n of_o all_o christian_a church_n yea_o of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o the_o world_n and_o if_o it_o be_v true_a what_o we_o have_v read_v in_o the_o letter_n from_o new-england_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o one_o church_n with_o another_o among_o themselves_o 3._o he_o say_v that_o such_o a_o case_n may_v fallout_v among_o we_o with_o swasme_n of_o anabaptist_n and_o antinomian_o answ_n that_o can_v be_v for_o they_o have_v no_o communion_n with_o we_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o we_o 2._o it_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o among_o you_o for_o the_o anabaptist_n as_o we_o have_v already_o show_v be_v your_o own_o and_o not_o we_o 4._o he_o say_v that_o the_o commissioner_n suppose_v more_o in_o their_o second_o answer_n viz._n that_o two_o or_o more_o church_n may_v mutual_o prete_a and_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n one_o against_o another_o answ_n this_o doctor_n be_v either_o very_a dull_a in_o not_o conceive_v of_o this_o clear_a and_o solid_a answer_n of_o the_o commissioner_n or_o else_o very_o malicious_a in_o disguise_v of_o it_o for_o the_o commissioner_n argue_v here_o upon_o a_o case_n according_a to_o the_o independenters_n hypothesis_n which_o can_v but_o be_v ordinary_a among_o they_o according_a to_o their_o discipline_n and_o howbeit_o their_o church_n be_v very_o few_o and_o have_v be_v a_o very_a short_a time_n in_o rerum_fw-la natura_fw-la yet_o it_o have_v fall_v out_o among_o they_o in_o new_a england_n and_o they_o have_v have_v the_o like_a case_n in_o the_o netherlands_o according_a to_o their_o own_o relation_n but_o in_o our_o way_n and_o discipline_n it_o can_v fall_v out_o among_o we_o for_o if_o two_o parish_n church_n have_v any_o difference_n they_o submit_v themselves_o both_o to_o the_o colloque_n or_o to_o the_o provincial_n assembly_n if_o two_o provincial_n synod_n or_o assembly_n differ_v the_o nationall_n assembly_n judge_v betwixt_o they_o both_o so_o that_o this_o case_n can_v fall_v out_o among_o we_o and_o it_o be_v a_o practical_a principle_n that_o par_fw-fr in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la since_o neither_o of_o the_o equal_n be_v subject_a one_o to_o the_o other_o and_o such_o be_v all_o parish_n church_n among_o themselves_o class_n among_o themselves_o and_o provincial_n synod_n among_o themselves_o the_o doctor_n by_o a_o doctoral_a power_n jump_v over_o the_o 3._o and_o 4._o answer_v with_o this_o worthy_a and_o most_o laconicke_a reply_n viz._n this_o same_o reply_n sarve_v to_o year_n three_o and_o four_o answer_n which_o whether_o it_o be_v true_o say_v i_o remit_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n judgement_n the_o commissioner_n five_o answer_n be_v by_o what_o probability_n can_v it_o be_v make_v to_o appear_v to_o any_o rational_a man_n and_o indifferent_a mind_n that_o no_o authority_n shall_v be_v as_o valid_a as_o authority_n against_o the_o obstinate_a that_o via_fw-la admonitionis_fw-la and_o requisitionis_fw-la be_v equal_a with_o via_fw-la citationis_fw-la &_o publiea_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la there_o can_v be_v so_o much_o as_o trial_n and_o examination_n of_o the_o offence_n without_o authority_n unless_o the_o party_n be_v willing_a to_o appear_v that_o persuasion_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o the_o deliver_v over_o to_o satan_n and_o thereby_o strike_v the_o conscience_n with_o the_o terror_n of_o god_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o jesus_n christ_n which_o have_v the_o promise_n of_o a_o special_a and_o strong_a ratification_n in_o heaun_n and_o any_o other_o ecclesiastical_a way_n whatsoever_o which_o must_v be_v inferior_a unto_o this_o and_o depend_v only_o upon_o persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v like_o efficacious_a no_o man_n will_v say_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o have_v ado_n with_o our_o neighbour_n who_o have_v no_o more_o authority_n over_o we_o than_o we_o have_v over_o he_o and_o another_o thing_n to_o have_v to_o do_v with_o civil_a power_n which_o have_v authority_n over_o both_o this_o solution_n i_o have_v write_v over_o in_o the_o commissioner_n own_o word_n because_o it_o be_v so_o significative_a so_o strong_a and_o evident_a that_o it_o dissolve_v all_o the_o frivolous_a reply_v of_o this_o good_a doctor_n the_o doctor_n hence_o suppose_v 1._o that_o there_o be_v no_o authority_n but_o scripture-authority_n by_o scripture-authority_n i_o believe_v he_o mean_v that_o institute_v by_o scripture_n otherways_o scripture_n authority_n be_v the_o excellency_n of_o scripture_n verity_n which_o bind_v we_o to_o believe_v it_o because_o of_o its_o author_n which_o be_v god_n 2._o he_o suppose_v that_o to_o be_v most_o valid_a that_o convince_v and_o conquer_v actus_fw-la elicitos_fw-la the_o mind_n rather_o than_o that_o which_o do_v only_a manacle_n and_o constrain_v â—â—â—us_fw-la imperatos_fw-la the_o outward_a carriage_n then_o make_v his_o quaere_fw-la thus_o be_v the_o way_n of_o admonition_n protestation_n and_o non-communion_n no_o authority_n reply_n but_o here_o the_o doctor_n be_v mighty_o mistake_v both_o in_o his_o authority_n and_o in_o his_o actus_fw-la eliciti_fw-la and_o imperati_fw-la 1._o for_o every_o thing_n that_o be_v say_v in_o scripture_n howbeit_o its_o verity_n be_v ground_v on_o divine_a authority_n yet_o give_v it_o not_o man_n a_o authority_n or_o authoritative_a power_n for_o what_o authoritative_a power_n be_v give_v to_o man_n or_o angel_n by_o those_o word_n in_o the_o beginning_n god_n make_v the_o heaven_n and_o the_o earth_n 2._o neither_o do_v every_o admonition_n in_o scripture_n make_v to_o man_n arm_v they_o with_o authority_n as_o that_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n whereon_o the_o doctor_n build_v his_o authority_n give_v no_o offence_n for_o it_o command_v not_o a_o authority_n or_o authoritative_a power_n to_o be_v exercise_v but_o a_o act_n of_o obedience_n to_o be_v practise_v item_n no_o public_a power_n or_o authority_n but_o a_o private_a duty_n because_o it_o be_v common_a to_o all_o man_n which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n likewise_o that_o other_o passage_n better_a a_o millstone_n be_v hang_v about_o one_o neck_n and_o he_o cast_v into_o the_o sea_n then_o to_o offend_v a_o weak_a brother_n item_n that_o we_o be_v better_a not_o to_o eat_v flesh_n then_o to_o offend_v etc._n etc._n all_o this_o be_v say_v by_o divine_a authority_n in_o respect_n