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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	church_n	congregation_n	jurisdiction_n	2,835	5	9.8056	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76081	The Independents catechisme. Or Some observations gathered out of Doctor Bastvvicke his religious and learned treatise entituled Independency not Gods ordinance. For the use of all poor ignorant, wavering, and seduced independents. By John Bernard philopresbytes.	Bernard, John.; Bastwick, John, 1593-1654. Independency not Gods ordinance.	1645 (1645)	Wing B1064; Thomason E1186_5; ESTC R14251	6,406	31

THE INDEPENDENTS CATECHISME OR Some Observations gathered out of Doctor BASTVVICKE his Religious and Learned Treatise ENTITVLED INDEPENDENCY NOT GODS ORDINANCE For the use of all poor Ignorant wavering and seduced Independents BY JOHN BERNARD 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 MAT. 22. 19. Ye do erre not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God 1 JOHN 4. 1. Beleeve not every Spirit but try the Spirits whether they are of God because many false Prophets are gone out into the world London Printed by John Macock 1645. TO THE Wavering or Seduced INDEPENDENT READER Deare Brother THe Learned Doctor hath presented a large Treatise to the view of the world which proves the Presbyterian Government DEPENDENT to be Gods Ordinance and not the Presbyterian Government INDEPENDENT by strong Arguments drawn from plain texts of Scripture For three Reasons following I have prevail'd with him that some Observations gathered out of it and digested into this short Catechisme might be published for thy good First because thou maist be perswaded thereby either not to waver or to be perfectly reformed from that dangerous errour Secondly because some have objected The Doctors Treatise is redious though every particular in it be absolutely necessary to vindicate Truth from Error this Epitome may invite thee seriously and speedily to read it thou mayst happily finde much satisfaction to thy unstable minde in it if with the men of Berea Act. 17. 7. Thou search the Scriptures If niceties delight thee I refer thee to the Doctors Treatise which is a garden full of such slowers Thirdly because thy uncharitable Teachers not able to justifie their fond opinion yet have unworthily vilified the Doctors sound judgement calling him Apostate foole that he is crazed in his braine being not misled with their New Lights but hath clearly discovered the mist of Errour wherewith they have blinded thine and others eyes Christian charity binds me to give him deserved applause for his Pious Learned and Charitable worke that thou mayst be reformed thereby is the prayer of him who wisheth thy souls good equally with his own John Bernard The first part of the Independents Catechisme upon these 4. Positions 1. That there were more particular Assemblies and Congregations in the Church of Jerusalem than one 2. That all those severall Congregations made but one Church 3. That all those severall Congregations were under one Presbytery 4. That the Government of the Church of Jerusalem is to be a pattern of Government to all succeeding Ages THE INDEPENDENTS CHATECHISME Quest. WHat Government hath Christ Ordained in the Church of Jerusalem and in the rest of the Primitive Churches to be a patrern unto all Churches for Government Doctrine and manners unto the end of the World Answ A Presbyterian Government that is by a Common-Councell of Presbyters as in the Originall or more plainely of a Religious grave solid learned and wise Councell of divines and ministers as was in the Assembly Act. 1. 15. unto whom Christ had given the power of the keyes Mat. 18. 16. 17. 18. That this was the Government established in the Church plainely appeares by these texts of Scripture Act. 14. 23. Act. 20. 17. 28. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7. 24. 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. 3. Jam. 5. 14. Act. 15. 6. 22. Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 17. The objections made by the Independent Brethren concerning the qualification of the Presbyters are punctually confuted in the Drs Treatise page 19. to the 29. Shewing that there is no expectation of miracles in our times though the Apostles and Primitive Presbyters were extraordinarily gifted for the confirmation of the truth of the Gospell to all succeeding ages Christ himselfe proclaimes those blessed that believe without seeing of miracles Iohn 20 29. This qualification in the Apostles and primitive Presbyters is continued unto the end of the World in the Presbyters and Ministers of the Gospell Viz. the power of order and preachings and the power of Jurisdiction or rulings Because what soever is written is for our instruction Quest. Were there many congregations and Assemblies in the mother Church of Ierusalem which in our dialect are called Churches or did the multitudes of beleevers in Ierusalem make but one congregation as the Independents suppose Answ These plaine texts of Scripture following do clearely prove that the many ten thousands of believers converted by Iohn Baptist by Christ his Apostles the 70. disciples and the rest of the primitive Presbyters could never meet together in one 10. or scarcely in 100. congregations to partake of all acts of worship to aedification as ●ppeares by the multitude of beleevers mentioned in Mat. 3. 1. 2. 5. 6. Mat. 7. 12. Luke 16. 16. Luke 7. 29. Iohn 7. 31. 40. 46. 47. 48. 49. 50. Acts 2. from the 37. to the end of the chapter Acts 4. 4. Act. 5. 14. Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. 7. Act. 21. 20. to suppose these multitudes could meet in one congregation to be edifyed is not agreeable to sense or reason Because there were above one hundred preachers and ministers besides the Apostles and all these continually taken up in praying preaching unto those many ten thousands of believers distributed into severall congregations that possibly they might edifie their preachers being all so employed they could not leave their ministry to serve tables Acts 6. 2. Therefore of necessity so many ministers must have severall places to preach in and those multitudes of believers be distributed into several congregations for them to preach to and severall places to baptize in other-wise there would have beene great confusion For but one of them could speake at once to aedification These plaine testimonyes of Scripture above cited may convince the Independents error Because they clearely take away the Foundation of their New-Churches which are built upon this mistake that there were no more believers in the Church of Ierusalem then could meet in one congregation Four we●ke objections to that purpose are punctually confuted by the Dr. from page 42. unto the 53. page Quest. Were not all those hundred preachers and the many ten thousands of believers so scattered abroad in the persecution we read of Act. 8. 1. 2. 3. That there was left no more believers in Ierusalem then could meet in one congregation Answ By that place is meant all the preachers and ministers onely except the Apostles as it appeares Acts 8. 4. they that were scattered abroad went to and fro preaching the Word As for the people they were many of them cast into prison and it is most probable that the rest were in their owne houses there is not any mention made of their being scattered abroad if they had they had no Call to preach now the text saith they did preach that were scattered abroad But by their abiding in Ierusalem the Apostles had both entertainment and safety without them they could not have secur'd themselves from the wolves And the Apostles care was such of feeding the sheepe of Christ that

they continued in Ierusalem to comfort and support the Church And refresh the believers in this heat of persecution when they wanted the helpe of their faithfull ministers and Pastors Quest. Who Govern'd ordered and ruled this Church consisting of so many congregations and assemblies Answ The Apostles and Presbyters as in the Originall Act. 7. 19. 29. 30. Act. 15. 2. 4. 6. 22. Act. 16. 4. 5. Act. 21. 17 18 25. And howsoever the Apostles in the places above specified are differenc'd by that title from the Presbyters yet in all acts of Government performed by them in the Church of Ierusalem they were for the substance of them ordinary acts such as Presbyters dayly perform And therefore the Apostles are in them to be considered as Presbyters who received the power of Jurisdiction or ruling and acting as Presbyters were in their ordinary employment Though at other times they used Superlative authority as Christs extraordinary Ambassadours 2 Cor. 5. 20. Some Impertinent Cavills about the Apostles exercising the office of Presbyters made by the Independents are clearely taken away by the Dr. from pag. 84 unto the 94. p. And least any should conceit the Apostles were not Presbyters because in those places above it is said the Apostles and Presbyters making a distinction betwixt them The Apostle Saint Peter resolves the doubt 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. 3. in which place Peter styles himselfe a Presbyter or Elder In the second Epistle of Iohn ver 1. Saint Iohn doth style himself Presbyter or Elder saying The Presbyter to the Elect Lady Saint Paul likewise styles himselfe a Presbyter if you compare 1 Tim. 4. 14. with 2 Tim. 1. 6. in which places it is evident that Saint Paul was one of the Presbytery Quest. Why do the Independent Brethren conclude every of their congregations a particular Church depending upon no other Church either for Government Doctrine or Manners when the whole current of the Scripture doth so clearly expresse the Presbyterian Government Ordain'd by Christ in the mother Church of Jerusalem must be a pattern unto all daughter Churches untill the end of the World Now it hath beene plainly proved that the Church of Ierusalem consisted of many congregations which made but one Church And that one Church distributed into those particular assemblyes was Governed by a Common-Councell or Presbytery The example of which Church the Independent Brethren pretend to follow Answ The Brethrens Answer is seconded with these reasons First because their particular Churches have for their patterne no lesse then the whole Colledge of the Apostles and Presbyters Act. 1. 15. Where they sate in councell to chuse a disciple in the place of Judas the number of the men not of men and women as in verse 14. being one hundred and twenty The Independent Brethren mistaking the members of the congregation who were men and Brethren verse 16. and not men Brethren and Sisters do peremptorily conclude from hence there were no more believers in Ierusalem then in this congregation notwithstanding the multitudes that believed and were baptized by Iohn Baptist and this whole Colledge of Apostles and Presbyters before the Passion of Christ Secondly Because their Churches though made up with a number of women by imitating the Assembly of Apostles and Presbyters every particular Church doth thereby gaine the same Authority which our Saviour gave to the whole Colledge of Apostles Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17. 18. which being extraordinary and exceeding the tenure of the Scripture to have so much power confered upon a smal congregation doth declare our Brethren the Independents to be wise above that which is written 1 Cor. 4. 6. and in knowledge to resemble the children of this world Mat. 16. 8. The second part of the INDEPENDENTS Catechisme gathered out of the Treatise upon these six following Queres concerning the gathering of CHURCHES 1. Quere WHere it is commanded in the word of God that the Ministers of the Gospell shall run about from their owne places and Charges to gather believing Christians from amongst believing Christians into their owne Independent congregations and debar them from all Church-fellowship and communication with other believers in Gods holy Ordinances and Sacraments And proclaime all that are not molded up after this new-modell to be a people out of covenant to have no right to the seales of the New-covenant neither they nor their children though believers whether this way of gathering Churches was ever heard of before these daies whether this be to set up Christ as King upon his throne to make divisions and Scismes in Churches and among beleivers and Brethren and that upon groundlesse pretences 2. Quere Whether for the making any man or woman a member of the Church it be necessary to the believeing and being baptized that they should walke some dayes weekes monthes or yeares with them that they may have experience of their conversation before they can be admitted and after that a confession of their faith should be publikely made before the congregation and the evidences of their conversion as the time when the place where the occasion how they were converted And if any either men or women shall except against their evidence that then they are not to be admitted 3. Quere Whether for making any man a member or an officer of a Church the consent of the whole congregation or the greater part of them besides the Presbyters and Ministers be requisite 4. Quere Whether for the admission of any one into Church-fellowship and communion a private solemne Covenant be requisite or necessary for the making any one a member the neglect or refusall of the which makes them incapable of their member-ship or admission 5. Quere Whether the women and people as well as the Presbyters and Ministers have the power of the Keyes And whether the women have all their voices in the Church both for election and reprobation of members and officers as well as the men and whether the consent of all the women or the greatest part of them to be requisite for the making any one a member or officer So that if they gainsay it being the greater number or allow of it the most voices carry the businesse 6. Quere Whether the practice and preaching of all these things and the gathering of Churches after this manner be to set up Christ as King upon his throne and whether Churches and assemblyes thus congregated be the onely true Churches in the which only Christ rules and reigns as King and all other that are not molded up after this fashion be no true congregated Churches and in the which Christ is not set up as King upon his throne Quest. Who were commanded by Christ to preach the Gospell and to propound to all Nations the conditions upon which they were to be admitted into his Church And who were to admit them Answ The Apostles onely and Presbyters and Ministers of the Gospell As appeares by Christs Commission given unto them and his promise to be with them

untill the end of the World Mat. 28. 19. 20. Marke 16. 15. 16. Acts 26. 15. to the 20. vers Here the Commission was onely delivered to the Apostles and the Ministers of the Gospell that they should admit whosoever believed and were baptized Quest. Did John Baptist or any of the primitive Apostles and Ministers ever call for a congregation to joyne with them in the admitting any member into the Church of Christ or did they demand such evidences and qualifications as the Independents do in the foregoing Queres Answ Their preaching and practise in Baptizing which is admitting members into the Church of Christ doth shew plainely they did it by vertue of their Commission no mention being made of a new Church or congregation to have voices with them or any other conditions to be required then Repent believe and be baptized which is plainely proved Mat. 3. 2. 6. Luke 3. 7. Luke 7. 29. John 3. 4. Act. 2. 37. 38. 4. Act. 8. 36. 37. 38. Quest. Where did the Apostles and primitive Presbyters delight to gather Churches Answ Amongst the lost sheepe of the house of Israel to bring them into Christs fold as appeares by Saint Paul accompting it a dishonour to build upon another mans Foundation Romans 15. 20. Quest What command have women in the Church either for preaching or giving their voices in the election or reprobation of members or officers Answ No more command have they for any such practise then by Saint Pauls words is due unto them 1 Cor. 14. 34. 35. 36. 1 Tim. 2. 11. 12. in both these places it is the Apostles speciall care to prevent womens intermedlings in matters of the Church which may for ever silence the Independents weake opinion who tolerate womens voicing it in their Churches contrary to the Word of God Quest. May diversities of Religions be tolerated amongst Christians or were they ever tolerated in the Old or New-Testament Answ The practise of the holy men of God sheweth they may not and their practise is for our imitation 1 Cor. 10. 6. 7. Rom. 15. 14. Gen. 17. 1. 2. 3. Gen. 18. 17. 18. 19. Jos 24. 14. 15. 16. In these places it is cleare that Abraham Isaac Iacob and Ioshua suffered no Idolatry nor Sects in their families for this had been to tolerate all Religions or to worship the true God in a false manner and not to do Justice and Judgement Quest. Are the examples of the Patriarches Prophets and Apostles who tolerated onely the true Religion or the examples of Poland Transylvania and Holland to be followed who tolerate all Religions Answ Saint Paul will decide the controversie sufficiently for us if we delight not more in novelties then in the old way prescrib'd in the written Word Rom. 12. 1 2. Phil. 3. 17. Phil. 4. 8 9. In which places Saint Paul doth declare that we must not fashion our selves according to this World we must not imitate the Saints of God in their failings and we must walke so as we have him the rest of the Saints for an example Our blessed Saviour blames the Angell of the Church of Pergamus Thyatira Laodicea Revel 2. 12. 13 14. to the 20. Revel 3. 14 15 16. Because they tolerated Balaam and Iezabell shewing his great displeasure against them for it Now these that labour for a toleration of all Religions must needs be Luke-warme such as God will spue out of his mouth Quest What examples have we in Scripture for the suppressing of false Teachers when they are openly discovered Answ The Prophets and Elders of Israel in all ages who had the sword of justice in their hands to punish all seducers as appeares 1 Kings 18. 21. Deutr. 13. 1 2 3 4 5. Iudges 6. 30 31. and their practise is for our Magistrats imitation 1 Cor. 10. 6 7. Romans 15. 14. Quest What esteeme ought Christians to have of those Independent ministers who instead of preaching the Word of God in season and out of season to convert soules preach their owne traditions and inventions to destroy those precious soules which other Godly Ministers have converted Answ Saint Pauls sentence is of any such false teacher Let him be accursed Gal. 1. 8 9. And if we will believe our Saviours words Such mens condition is very dangerous whatsoever they may promise to themselves Mat. 18. 6 7. Woe be unto that man by whom the offence cometh Now such offence is come by wandring after the Independent Ministers New-lights that all Godly Ministers may with Saint Paul wish they were cut off who trouble the Church by such groundlesse pretences And whereas all Godly Presbyters and Ministers who preach Christ out of good will open the eyes of the blind turne them from darkenesse to light and from the power of Satan unto God ought highly to be Honour'd for their workes sake 1 Thess 5. 13. Yea that they deserve double Honour 1 Tim. 5. 17. Yet the same Apostle doth on the contrary give unto all believers a speciall caution To beware of false teachers Rom. 16. 17 18. Coloss 2. 8. 2 Epistle of Saint Iohn 9 10 7. verses Concluding that they that are such serve not the Lord Iesus Christ but their owne bellies and with faire speech and flattering deceive the hearts of the simple FINIS Imprimatur Ja. Cranford July 3. 1645.