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A41319 An answer to Mr. Thomas Grantham's book, called, A dialogue between the Baptist and the Presbyterian by Martin Finch. Finch, Martin, 1628?-1698. 1691 (1691) Wing F942; ESTC R7436 100,803 186

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Voice To conclude this Chapter I would have this Author and all that shall read what I have written take notice that I shall not meddle with those few Passages that he quotes out of other Writers for some of his Opinions Indeed he seems as if he would put out another Book with Quotations taken out of Mr. Pierce and others out of the Ancients for some of his Opinions If this Author will trouble the World with more Books to no purpose who can help it He may do it with great ease though it may be he never saw the Books themselves but Mr. Pierce and Mr. J. G. will furnish him with Quotations out of the Greek and Latin Fathers to his hand But I shall not I say meddle with any Quotations of that nature for these Reasons Because 1. That before Pelagius broached his Errours the Fathers did not speak so distinctly and warily about the Points of Grace 2. That this way of deciding Controversies is endless As we see when our Protestant Divines took that way with the Papists we took the meaning of certain Passages one way and they another A learned Episcopal Divine and a Professor of Divinity in Cambridge long since said very well The Fathers in some things are for the Papists against us in some things they are for us against the Papists and in some things they differ both from the Papists and us But because this makes Controversies endless and casts a Mist before the Eyes of the Common People a learned Man amongst the Papists gives this Advice to those that have to do with Protestants Get them saith he out of their Castle of the Scriptures into the large Field of the Fathers And then he made account they could do well enough with them 3. That it is Scripture one Scripture compared with another that must decide Controversies As one of the Ancients said I would hear Thus saith the Lord. It is not what learned and Godly Men say but what the Scripture saith being rightly understood and one place thereof compared with another that must decide Controversies And there are certain Rules agreeing with the whole scope of Holy Writ that must be attended to as that no Scripture must be interpreted so as in the least to reflect upon the Soveraignty Immutability and Omnipotency of God No Scripture must be so interpreted as to disparage and dishonour that perfect and eternal Redemption that Christ God-Man hath obtained for us as if he died in vain for any for whose Sins he made his Soul an Offering No Scripture must be so interpreted as to puff up proud Man with a Conceit that he doth merit his Salvation when others perish by his Towardliness and Care for himself in improving his Talent better than others but that all our good Inclinations every good Thought and all holy Desires are freely given us of God It is he that worketh in us to will and to do and that not for any Worthiness and Towardliness in us above others but of his own good Pleasure of his free Mercy in Christ It is by Grace we are saved wholly by Grace from first to last Election was of mere Grace our Redemption was of mere Grace our Conversion of mere Grace all is from special discriminating distinguishing Grace We have not the least thing to glory in as if we had made our selves to differ from those that perish but we must wonder here and to all Eternity in Heaven that we should find Grace in the sight of the Lord. CHAP IX An Answer to the Author's Queries at the End of his Book THis Author did send me a Letter containing Six Queries now he hath added a Seventh and hath styled me Preacher to the independents which he did not in the Letter which he sent to me As for the Title of Independents we own it not we are Dependents upon God his Word and upon other Churches for Help and Brotherly Advice and Counsel in the Lord But we desire to keep our selves independent upon this Author or any other that shall pretend to have any spiritual Jurisdiction over us for we hold that there are no Churches of Christ's Institution under the New Testament but particular Congregations and that those particular Congregations have not power over one another but ought to be helpful and assisting one to another as the Matter shall require Independent is too high a Title for any Saints on Earth or in Heaven yea it is too high a Title for the holy Angels it is only fit for the Almighty and Everlasting God And I heartily wish that this Author would but acknowledge God to be Independent Absolute and Vncontrollable and then he would never write such a Book as he hath Arminianism is a Quarrelling with God about his Independency and Soveraignty in his Decrees and Dispensations as if God were not Independent Absolute and Uncontrollable but must be and must do as Men shall enjoyn him his Way Job 36.23 If this Author saw fit to publish his profound Queries it had been but common Honesty to have published also mine Answer for I sent him an Answer in a few Days and had another Letter from him which I also answered And out of that second Letter of mine he takes occasion for his Seventh Query It was well that I kept a Copy of my Letters A true Copy of my Answer to Mr. Grantham when he sent me his queries SIR INstead of Answering directly to your Quarrellings I do out of true Love to you beseech you in the Fear of God to consider of these following Particulars that may give you more Light into those Points about Election Redemption and Conversion 1. Consider the Infinite and Incomprehensible Majesty of God and the Inconsiderableness of all the Children of Men the Grashoppers and Worms of the Earth Isa 40.15 17 22. This may prepare our Hearts to think of his Decrees and Dispensations to the Children of Men with an holy Fear and Trembling 2. Consider that God hath made all things for himself for the Manifestation of his own Glory one way or other for the Glory of his Mercy or for the Glory of his Justice This was God's End Prov. 16.4 Rom. 11.36 Rev. 4.11 3. Consider that God hath an absolute Soveraignty an absolute Lordship and Dominion over the Children of Men to do with them as he pleaseth Isa 46.10 Exod. 33.19 Rom. 9.15 16 17 18. 4. Consider that none of us hold that God punisheth any but for Sin and that all having Sinned and come short of the glory of God he might have spared none of the Children of Men and his Throne have been guiltless from our Blood for ever Rom. 3.19 23. 5.12 5. Consider that the exceeding Riches of God's Grace is to be adored for ever that God should Predestinate any of the Children of Men to the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ give him to Redeem them and his Spirit to Sanctifie them Ephes 1.4 5 6 7. 1 Pet 1.3 6. Consider
these Authors as to throw down the whole Arminian Doctrine and in the most plain and popular way that I could to set forth the Truth of God to the Capacity of ordinary Christians The Lord add his Blessing and give us Vnderstanding in all things Norwich Jun. 11. 1691. M. F. THE CONTENTS Chap. I. AN Examination of Mr. Grantham's Title Page Chap. II. A Vindication of Dr. Collinges Chap. III. That Christ did not die for all Adam's Posterity Chap. IV. Ten Arguments to prove that all that Christ died for shall be saved Chap. V. Of Election and Reprobation Chap. VI. Of God's Eternal Decrees what shall come to pass in time Chap. VII Of the Father's drawing the Elect to Christ Chap. VIII Of the Saints Perseverance in Grace Chap. IX An Answer to Mr. Grantham's Queries CHAP. I. Examination of the Author's Title Page THE Person with whom I have now to do calls his Book A Dialogue between the Baptist and the Presbyterian and stileth himself Messenger of the Baptized Churches in Lincolnshire It is fit to enquire a little into these two Titles he giveth himself He stileth himself the Baptist Indeed we read Mat. 3.1 2 3. In those days came John the Baptist preaching in the wilderness of Judea and saying Repens ye for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand and this is he that was spoken of by the Prophet Esaias saying The voice of one crying in the wilderness Prepare ye the way of the Lord make his paths straight So we read of John the Baptist that was prophesied of by Esaias who is already come but I find no Prophecy of any Thomas the Baptist that was to be sent of God John is called the Baptist because he Baptized Christ himself and because he was sent in an extraordinary way to Baptize the people of the Jews I think it is too high a Title for any man now living in the World to call himself the Baptist 2. This Author stiles himself Messenger of the Baptized Churches in Lincolnshire I suppose that all the Churches and Congregations in Lincolnshire of all perswasions do think that the Members of their Churches are Baptized tho' not in this Author's way and is he the Messenger of them all But take it for the Churches of his own Perswasion Let us enquire how he is their Messenger We read of Messengers of the Churches 2 Cor. 8.23.24 Whether any do enquire of Titus he is my partner and fellow-helper or our Brethren be enquired of they are the Messengers of the Churches and the glory of Christ Wherefore shew ye to them and before the Churches the proof of your Love and of our boasting on your behalf As for the Messengers of the Churches here spoken of as such they were only chosen by some Churches to travel up and down to other Churches for a short space to get Contribution and Relief for other Churches that were in great want by being spoiled of their Goods by Persecutors or by some other means brought to some great outward necessities And if this Author be a Messenger of Churches in that way he hath undertaken a good work and I hope that those he is so violent against will be as Charitable to relieve the necessities of other Christians though not of their Perswasion as he can expect But when he calleth himself Messenger of the Baptized Churches in Lincolnshire he hath another meaning We read of the Angels of the seven Churches Rev. 1.20 Now by the Angels of those Churches is meant Messengers of the Lord to those Churches The Lord's Messengers to declare his Mind and Will to them Here were several Angels and Messengers of the Seven Churches but one Man was not the Angel or Messenger of several Churches The Angel of the Church of Ephesus was not the Angel of the Church of Pergamos and of the rest of the Seven Churches So that it is likely that this Author counteth himself to have Jurisdiction and Authority over many Churches And truly if he be the Baptist a Title given only to John hitherto and be Messenger at the same time of several Churches we know not how many and have Spiritual Power over them he is an extraordinary person and 't is no wonder that he deals with so many persons and things Yet truly I should think if he were more than an ordinary Presbyter he should visit with more Mildness and Moderation There is another thing in the Title Page that is very bold and daring to the most high God He represents the Presbyterians as holding Cruel and Soul-devouring Doctrines making God the ordainer of all the Sins of Men and Devils and reprobating the greatest part of mankind without any help of Salvation 1. Concerning God's ordaining of all the sins of Men and Devils I shall speak God willing in answer to your Book and shew in what Sense God ordained and decreed to leave Angels and Men to themselves and so to sin 2 As to Reprobating the greatest part of mankind without any help of Salvation this you call A Cruel and Soul-devouring Doctrine I answer 1. That I suppose your self hold that the greatest part of mankind do in the end perish eternally I am sure our Saviour declared that few there be that find the strait gate and narrow way to Heaven That 't is but a little Flock to whom God gives the Kingdom of Heaven That tho' many are called yet few are chosen Not but those that are saved are a Multitude which no Man can number Rev. 7.9 yet comparatively they are few they are few in comparison of those that perish 2. Whether they that perish were ordained of old from Eternity to Condemnation for their sins or reprobated in time as you hold Truly this little alters the case As for the greatest part of mankind reprobated they are and cast into Hell at last without any help or hope of Salvation and if this be cruel Doctrine have a care that you don't contend and strive with the holy Sovereignty and Justice of God and when you argue with men about these things have a care you don't quarrel with God himself Do you think that those that do not adore the incomprehensible Greatness and Holiness of God can ever be satisfied that God punishes mens temporary sinning with Eternal Punishment 'T is not talking of a common love of God to mankind and talking of Universal Redemption when in the Conclusion God takes Vengeance for ever upon so many of mankind for their Sin and Folly That will really take off men from quarrelling with God But the humble acknowledgment of his absolute Lordship over the Works of his Hands and that he is infinitely Just and Righteous in all that he doth tho' we poor Dust and Ashes cannot comprehend it This must silence Man This Author sets down a Scripture in the Title Page Psalm 64.7 8 9. But God shall shoot at them with an Arrow suddenly shall they be wounded so they shall make their own Tongue to fall
understood as if God had not punished them here and in Hell for their Idolatry and other Sins But the meaning is that God let them alone to walk in their Blindness and Ignorance Gods Election then ran chiefly and almost wholly amongst the Jews but now that Gods Election runneth among the Gentiles Now the time is come to visit the Gentiles to take out of them a People for his Name he commandeth Men every where in all Nations where we his Ministers come to repent of their Idolatries and other Sins in a more especial manner than ever he did before that Men turn from Idols to serve the living God and this is a notable startling Argument to move them to Repent and turn to God For there is a Terrible Day of Judgment to come when God will Judge the World in Righteousness by that Man Christ whom he hath ordained to be Judge of the quick and the dead What is this to Christs dying for all Adams Posterity but against it For we see there how God suffered the Nations to walk in their Idolatrous courses and did not send any to Preach the way of Salvation to them And whereas now God commanded Men to Repent by the Preaching of the Apostles this was to bring in the Elect among the Gentiles and observe that as to the Elect the Lord doth not only command them to Repent by the Preaching of his Ministers but gives them Repentance it self by his Spirit 10. The next place is Rom. 5.18 As by the Offence of one Judgment came upon all Men to Condemnation even so by the Righteousness of one the free gift came upon all Men unto justification of Life For the understanding of this Text. 1. Consider that the first Man Adam and the second Man the Lord from Heaven were both publick persons The first Adam stood in the room of his Seed The second Adam in the room of his Seed 2. Consider that the Apostles scope in this Text and Context is not at all to compare the two Adams as to the number of their Seed as if Christs Seed were equal in number with the first Adams Seed but the Apostles intent is only to compare the Power and Influence of the first Adams sin to bring Condemnation upon all his Seed with the power Efficacy and Vertue of the Second Adams Righteousness to bring the justification of Life And to that end the Apostle shews that the first Adam by one sin by one offence brought his Seed into a State of Condemnation And the Second Adam by his Active and Passive Obedience did take away for his Seed not only the Sin that came upon them by the first Adam but their many Offences committed in their own persons v. 16. So that let it be well observed the scope of the Apostle is to shew that as Death and ondemnation came inevitably upon all the first Adams Posterity by his fall so shall the free gift of Righteousness come infallibly upon all in whose room and stoad Christ dyed as their second Adam their Surety and Mediator The first Adams all was all Mankind the second Adams all was all the Elect and most certainly and infallibly shall both Justification and Sanctification come upon all Christs Seed whose publick person he was all for whom he obeyed the Law and bare the Curse of it So that tho' every ordinary reader may not be able to take up the right sense of this place the Apostles scope is that as Death came in by one publick person so Life and Salvation came in by another publick person And that the Lord Jesus will infallibly justifie and save his all for whom he undertook and dyed as their Head Representative second Adam Surety and Mediator This Text and Context rightly understood throws down the conceit of Universal Redemption to the ground 11. then the Author puts two Scriptures together but nothing to the purpose 1 Cor. 15.22 For as in Adam all dye even so in Christ shall all be made alive And John 5.29 They that have done good unto the Resurrection of Life and they that have done evil unto the Resurrection of Damnation As to the first Text. As in Adam all dye so in Christ shall all be made alive The Apostle there is speaking of the Resurrection of the Body and though all shall be raised up at the second coming of Christ yet in this 22 v. and the next the Apostle is speaking only of the Resurrection of the Bodies of the Saints He first shews how Man came to be liable to natural Death and saith in Adam all dye by his sin and fall Man came to be liable to natural Death as it was penal indeed not only natural but spiritual and liableness to Eternal Death came upon us by Adam But the Apostle here is speaking only of Natural Death well saith the Apostle in Christ shall all be made alive But saith he in the next Verse every one in his own order Christ the first Fruits and afterward they that are Christs at his Coming Christ the Head of the Church He was the first that rose from the dead by his own power as he was God and he was the chief the most excellent person that ever was or shall be raised from the Dead and then he saith that they that are Christs they shall be raised at his coming as Christ the Head is raised from the Dead So they that are Christs all that are the Members of his Mystical Body they shall be raised at his second coming And the other Text John 5.29 shews that as Believers shall be raised at the last day that they may be glorified not only in their Souls but in their Bodies too So the wicked they shall be raised too at the day of Judgment that in their Bodies as well as in their Souls they may be punished for ever I wonder that this Author should so much as name these two Texts for Universal Redemption 12. The next place is 2 Pet. 2.1 But there were false Prophets also among the People even as there shall be false Teachers among you who privily shall bring in Damnable Heresies even denying the Lord that bought them and bring upon themselves swift Destruction As to this place 1. T is very considerable what is said by the Learned Dr. Ames for the understanding of these words that is that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used is not wont to be applyed to the Son but appropriated to the Father and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is constantly given to the Son the Lord Christ And so he Explains it by Deut. 32.6 Is not he thy Father that has bought thee Hath he not made thee and established thee So that the words may be understood of God as Creator and common Benefactor that had bought them by outward and common Mercies as he is said to ahve bought Israel of old Others take notice that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we translate bought doth
Saviour in that Parable is that some are affected with the Word and after a sort believe and yet never have the Root of the Matter a New Heart To explain this further John 2.23 24. It is said many believed on him when they saw the Miracles but Jesus would not commit himself to them for he knew all Men he knew what is in Man the meaning is that though they believed after a sort yet he would not commit himself to them and trust them as true Disciples and true Friends to him for he knew all Men he knew they were not sound Believers he knew they had not that precious Faith of Gods Elect. And so it 's said of Simon Magus Acts 8.13 That he believed and was Baptized and yet Peter tells him That his Heart was not right in the sight of God but was in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of Iniquity Men may be enlightened and convinced and after a sort be Believers and yet never be truly humbled for Sin as Sin never be taken off from all Confidence in their own Righteousness never rely upon Christ alone for Justification never have that Faith that worketh by Love Gal. 5.6 Those that fall away have but an Historical Notional Faith such as the Apostle James calls Faith without Works a dead Faith Saving Justifying Faith differs not only in degree but in its Kind and Nature from this Faith that they have that falls away 1 Jo. 2.19 They went out from us but they were not of us for if they had been of us no doubt they would have continued with us but they went out from us that they might be made manifest they were not all of us that is that those who were Professors and Believers after a sort they went out from us they fell away because they were not of us they were not of the Elect and Ransomed People they were not partakers of like precious Justifying Faith with us for if they had been so no doubt the Apostle puts a no doubt upon it they would have continued with us and never have fallen to Judaism or Heathenism again but they went out from us fell off from their Profession and common enlightning that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us but he tells them that had true Justifying Faith they have an anointing from the Holy one v. 21. and v. 27. the anointing which ye have received abideth in you v. 27. Every one the least as well as the strongest that have justifying Faith they have The Spirit of God dwelling in them they have another manner of work of the Spirit upon them than any that fall away they are new Creatures they are partakers of the Divine Nature and this Anointing with the Spirit of Grace and with the Graces of the Spirit abideth in them against all opposition from the remainders of Corruption against all opposition from Men or Devils The Lord to humble them and to shew them that it is of his meer Grace in Christ that they are saved may leave them in part to themselves at times and they may be as a Tree cut down but yet there is the Root of the Matter the Root of Grace always in them and through the scent of the Water of Life thro' new Influences Supplies and quickenings of the Spirit they shall put forth Buds and Blossoms of Grace again God hath promised to every true Believer that he will never leave him nor forsake him Heb. 13.5 i. e. he will never leave him nor forsake him totally or finally and 't is God's not leaving or forsaking them that keeps them from not leaving or forsaking of him Let it be well observed that we all by our fall in Adam have forsaken God the Fountain of Living Waters we have left God and God hath left us as to any help by a Covenant of Works that Covenant was Mutable and Conditional God would not leave and forsake Man upon condition that Man did not leave and forsake him as to exact and perfect Obedience but Adam and all of us in him did presently leave and forsake God Rom. 5.12 and so God hath left and forsaken all Adam's Posterity as to Blessing them upon the terms of the Covenant of Works But Blessed be God for a Covenant of Grace and Jesus the Mediator whom ever the Lord takes internally into this Covenant he will never leave them nor forsake them and hath himself undertkaen to keep them that they shall never totally and finally leave nor forsake him Jer. 32.40 Hos 14.4 5. Isai 54.9.10 Isai 55.3 2. The Assembly say in their Confession of Faith That the purest Churches under Heaven are subject to Mixture and Error and have been so degenerated as to become no Churches of Christ but Synagogues of Satan Upon which this Author saith surely the purest Churches are True Believers and if these purest Churches may become Synagogues of Satan it is too much to prove the point I answer That the Point in hand is whether one whom the Lord hath endued with a lively Justifying Faith shall not be actually and infallibly kept by the Grace and Power of God unto Salvation Now this Position of the Assembly doth consist very well with that point of Doctrine which they maintained about the perseverance of the Saints The Assembly of Divines are not speaking of the Invisible Mystical Church who are inseparably united to Christ but of particular Churches and Congregations of those that are Professors of the Gospel and they say rightly 1. That the purest of these Churches of Professors are subject to mixture i. e. that there may be in the purest Churches unsound Professors that never had a Saving Work of Grace wrought in their Hearts 2. That the purest Churches are subject to Error as to lesser Errors the purest Churches in the World may be guilty before God Christ may not only have a few things but many things against the best Churches either for Errors in Doctrine or Worship or failings in Conversation in Ministers and People who can understand his Errors all his Errors the purest Churches had need to be very Humble and not boast of their Purity but pray continually that God would pardon and reform what he sees amiss in them 3. The purest Church may so degenerate as to be no Church of Christ but the Synagogue of Satan All that the Assembly of Divines here say is very true and no contradiction at all to themselves in their maintaining the certain perseverance of particular Saints for tho' the purest Church may so degenerate in time as to be no true Church of Christ but the Synagogue of Satan yet if there be any True Believers in a Church they are kept notwithstanding the Apostacy of the Church whereof they were Members tho' the Church doth so degenerate as to lose their Church state yet if there were any one sound Christian in that Church he shall hold his spiritual Estate and Vnion with