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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76085	The second part of that book call'd Independency not Gods ordinance: or the post-script, discovering the uncharitable dealing of the Independents towards their Christian brethren, with the jugglings of many of their pastors and ministers, to the misleading of the poor people to the detriment of their own souls, and the hurt both of church and state, with the danger of novelties in religion; proving that Independency, is one of the most dangerous sects, that ever appeared in the world, since mortality inhabited the earth. In the which also there is a satisfactory answer given to the principall cavils of him that writ that railing pamphlet, stil'd The falshood of Mr Will. Prynnes Triumphing in the antiquity of popish princes and parliaments. With Doctor Bastvvicks just defence against some calumnies in way of preface. / By John Bastvvick, Dr in Physick.; Independency not Gods ordinance. Part 2	Bastwick, John, 1593-1654.	1645 (1645)	Wing B1069; Thomason E287_9; ESTC R200091	93,218	111

saith Matth. 22. Ye erre not knowing the Scriptures so in these perilous and dangerous times these deceivers creepe into houses and leade captive silly Women and ignorant Men to the danger of their own soules and the hurt of others And lamentable it is that such multitudes of Men and Women should none of them take notice how they are deluded for whiles their Pastors as they call them seem to give the congregation and the Church such power and authothority as if they could do nothing without their consent and good liking yet all this is to make themselves Lords over them and as very Popes in their Conclaves who if they be crafty and cunning make their Conclaves say Amen to their own wills and doe whatsoever they have a liking to and a purpose to bring to passe For what man is there that hath any discerning spirit or is but of any ordinary capacity that doth not by dayly experience finde that the Pastors of their new gathered Churches do whatsoever pleaseth them in their severall Congregations so that howsoever to humor the people they say they can do nothing without the consent of the whole Assembly it is a meer jugling to my own knowledge for the poor people count all that their Ministers speak as an Oracle and take for truth whatever they say and if they do at any time dissent from them in their thoughts they dare not declare it openly especially the poor members for incurring their Ministers displeasure for they ordinarily have the chiefest hand in the distribution of all the collections that are made for the releeving of the indigent and can at any time either pleasure or displeasure them and therefore they endeavour to keep in favour with them to avoid their frowns which they know may be very prejudiciall unto them so that their teachers upon all occasions do what they themselves think fit especially when it makes for their owne advantage and gain which the most of them have alwayes an eye unto or else they are extramely abused by some of their own fraternity And if at any time any in their Churches seem unwilling to comply with them in their proceedings yet commonly they have such a party in their Congregations as they carry all before them and if for some short season the greater part oppose them if their pastors be learned and cunning what with their Policy Rhetoricke and fine Art of perswasion and seeming reasons they will soon turn the whole Congregation which way they please So that howsoever they amuse the people and tell them of the great priviledge the Church hath both in choosing of Officers and admitting of members and in transacting all things in fine all is as they will have it and all the ignorant people follow their severall Pastors as a company of silly Goslings do the old Goose And the truth is they make their Congregation but a company of ninnies as the false Apostles used to do as Paul affirmes in 2 Cor. 11. and all for their own base ends as will ere long be sufficiently proved and exercise as great a domination lordship and power over them in respect of ording things in their severall Churches as Popes in their Conclave and Kings and Princes in their severall Councells who if they be wise and Politicke and be Masters indeed in their Art and King-craft as they call it they will turn their Councells which way they please and make use of them no farther then stands with their own designs and use them onely as a screen between them and the people ever for their own defence and safeguard so that if at any time upon extraordinary pressures and grievances their subjects grow into a heat or discontent and begin to murmur then one or two of the Councellors must for fashion-sake be in disgrace and frown'd on for some space as if they had given bad councell to satisfie the people when in the mean time there is nothing but collusion the King and they remaining very good friends as who did nothing nor councelled nothing but what they knew the King himselfe would have done and used them onely as his instruments for the effecting of it and all this to delude the people and to regain their good opinion for all wise Princes ever shew themselves favourably to the people upon any complaints seeming to greeve at nothing more that their subjects who they look on as children should in the lest thing suffer under their Government and especially by their own servants and this method of dealing gives great content to subjects in all kingdomes and that Princes know well After the very same manner do the crafty Independent Pastors deal with their Churches upon all occasions and when they desire to bring any plot of theirs to passe that may be advantageous and profitable unto them then they put the people upon it so that if any disgrace be like to come by it then the congregations must have that lye upon them as who have the chiefe ordering of things in their severall assemblies for they professe themselves all servants of the Church and to be at their disposing and to go and come at their appointment and to do nothing but by their good liking and Pope-like they say they are Servi Servorum And then for the colouring of all their juglings they tell them of the Church in Jerusalem and that of Corinth who had the power of Choosing their Officers and casting out of offenders and doing whatsoever they pleased within themselves and they stand they say as single persons and may not in the least infringe or impeach the rights and priviledges of the Church when notwithstanding nothing is done but according to their own direction and by their speciall instigation and so they ever preserve their own reputation and seem to be friends to such as they mortally hate and lay all upon the Church of Jerusalem whose example they affirm all Churches are to follow and whose pattern they must imitate now that being but one Congregation and Assembly for so they perswade the ignorant people ever having had plenary power within it self as all the other Churches the severall congregations through the world as they assert have within themselves the same power and authority of ordering and transacting all things that concerne the Church as the Church of Jerusalem and those other severall Churches had and from the which there is no appeal and all this is but miserably to abuse the people and cunningly to make themselves Lords over them whiles they seem highly to honour the professing to be their servants for my part I shal ever pray that all the Independent Ministers through the world may be indeed the servants of the Churches and States wherein they live and never become their Masters for all men may see by the very beginning of their domination how they would Lord it over all congregations if they were once established by authority when they speak so big

Reformation thus long Ye see saith he that a little handfull of Independent Ministers in the Synod have given three Kingdomes imployment these two yeares so that they can do nothing and boasted of this wicked act as a matter of vantation and triumph So that if men well consider the whole negotiation of the Independents in the Reverend Assembly it is to hinder the work of reformation then the which there cannot be a more diabolicall designe And then they spread it abroad among the people that they have not liberty to speak when it is most notorious that one of them speaks more than half a dozen of the other Ministers And they have published it also all over the Town that the Presbyterians durst not let their reasons be set out in Print to the view of the world for they knew very well that as they were unanswerable so that all the people would forthwith have been of their judgement and by this their babble it is incredible how they have strengthned their Faction and gained disciples for their followers beleeve all they say as Gospell And truely if there were nothing but these their under-hand dealings and malicious practises and rejoycing at evill it were enough to make all men abhor their wayes but the truth is they have no certainty in any thing they beleeve to day and by their practises they contradict all their doctrine and tenents And that all men may be yet a little better acquainted with the Independent Ministers juglings I thought good to insert here these sixteen Observations sent me by a learned and godly Gentleman who is very well verst in all their doctrines and manners They are these 1. THey hold themselves the principall Labourers and Pillers of faith when as they professe that their present judgements shall not binde themselves for the future but that they beleeve all things with a reserve to alter their thoughts faith and judgements upon new or better Light 2. They pleade for liberty of conscience yet will impose a Covenant upon every mans conscience they admit into their congregations else exclude him 3. They plead against toleration of any corrupt members c. in a Church and yet plead for a toleration of all Religions in a State under the notion of liberty of Conscience 4. They plead against the Magistrates Coarsive power in matters of Religion and yet banish men in New England and expell all out of their Congregations that are not of their way 5. They pleade against Synods and yet they professe themselves members of the present Synod 6. They speak against Parochiall Congregations as against the Kingdome and Law of Christ and yet some of them accept of such and yet will neither Baptize nor administer the Lords Supper to their Parishoners though they take their tithes 7. They write against Tithes as Jewish Popish c. yet some of them take them and sue for them as greedily as any others 8. They condemne all set formes of Prayer or Preaching and yet themselves plead for a set forme of Church-Government Jure Divino in all particular circumstances whatsoever 9. They condemn non-residency and pluralities yet many of them have divers Livings and Lectures of good value and yet are resident and keep hospitality at none of them 10. They call some Presbyterians Lord Bishops because they ride now then on horse-back by reason of age or infirmity to the Assembly yet many of them ride thither in Coaches and some of them can ride 6. or 7. miles on the Lords day in a Coach and 4. horses to Preach an afternoon Sermon which Christ and his Apostles never did and no Presbyterian practiseth 11. They condemn Presbyterians of harsh language and bitternesse in their writings against them yet none are so desperately Libellous Satyricall and scandalous in their writings as many of them against Presbyterians 12. They professe nothing but truth and yet many of their writings savour with malicious mis-informations scandals forgeries untruths invented by themselves to defame their innocent Christian brethren 13. They pretend themselves the onely propugners of the Parliament Priviledges and Jurisdiction yet none more oppugned them in the hight of opposition as they 14. They professe themselves more estranged from and mortified to the world yet none more covetous oppressive ambitious of honours preferments and hunting after all manner of gainfull Offices and imployments as they nor none more unfaithfull unconscionable in them then some of them 15. They pretend the Scripture to be the onely rule of their way and Discipline and yet can produce no one Text or Example of Scripture for any thing their Church warrants or they hold wherein they differ from the Presbyterians 16. They dare not undertake to binde themselves for the future by any thing they held or concluded touching Church government much losse any of their party therefore it is vaine to dispute with or receive any thing from them in matter of government or discipline who will neither be bound by their own mother-judgements or practice but hold and practise all things only duranti bene placito Out of all the which as out of my former discourse it is easie for any man to gather that of all the Seducers that have yet appeared in the world these are most to be taken heed of whatsoever seeming holinesse they may make shew of to the people But that I may now draw to a conclusion of this my Postscript leaving the narration of many other passages of theirs till their Answer comes out which their followers say is ready for the Presse let me say this to all such as desire the knowledge of the truth in sincerity and that love peace that all men may see how fair we offer the Independents and all such as are affected to their novelties whereas the Independent Ministers have perswaded the people that their Arguments by which they have laboured to prove That in the Church of Jerusalem there were no more Believers then could all meet in one congregation to partake in all acts of worship were unanswerable and have affirmed withall that if it could be made evident or proved unto them That there were more Christians in the Church of Jerusalem then could all meet in one Congregation that then they would relinquish their opinion of Independency I and Mr. William Prynne Esquire my Brother in affliction who the Independents have causelesly maligned and reproached not to take the work out of any learned and godly Ministers hands who we honour for their singular erudition and worth and far prefer before our selves for all sufficiency and accomplished learning shall with all humility undertake to maintaine and make good these ensuing Propositions The first That there were more particular Assemblies and Congregations of Believers in the Church of Jerusalem then one The second That all those severall Congregations made but one Church The third That those severall congregations were all under one Presbyterie The fourth That the government of the Church of Jerusalem is to be a patterne of government to all succeeding ages The fifth That the gathering of Churches after the Independent way together with their Church-covenant and all other their proceedings wherein they differ from the Presbyterians hath neither precept nor president in the whole Word of God All these positions we undertake to make good against all the Independents in the Kingdome not out of any contention for victory but truth and that in the spirit of love and not in our own strength but and in the Name and in the Power of the King eternall immortall the mighty Potentate the Lord of Hosts And if we shall not by the grace of God and his blessed assistance be able to make good what we undertake we shall not refuse to undergoe the greatest censure for this our temerity But if we make good our tenents and evince and prove their Independency and the manner of the gathering of their Churches to be but their own inventions and meer novelties all the persecution that we shall then wish may be exercised against our Brethren for the great distractions and breaches they have made among us is this that we shall desire all the godly people of the City to be humble petitioners with us unto the great Councell of the Kingdome that as they lately made a pious and a godly Ordinance for the silencing of all such as undertook the ministery without sufficiency of abilities and a lawfull call so they would now silence all these novelties and command the Independent Ministers hereafter to preach the Gospell purely and sincerely to the people without those mixtures of their own traditions annexed to it by which they shall bring a great deale of glory to God honour to themselves and procure if not peace to the whole Kingdome yet love amity and unanimity amongst the people which ought to be the prayer of all those that wish the peace of Zion and the salvation of their Brethren and the welfare of the Nation My request to the Independents in behalfe of the Expectants and Seekers LIghts Lights Gentlemen-INDEPENDENTS hang out your Lights your New-lights there hang out your Newborn-lights there That the poore Seekers may finde a Church amongst you Imprimatur Ja. Cranford FINIS

believe that grollish opinion of Independency For when the Lord divided the whole Earth to the severall families of the same he alwaies reserved a portion for his own children for he is the preserver of all especially of the Believers as it is related Deut. 32. and Acts 17. and 1 Tim. 4. Now as the Families of the Earth multiplied and increased they extended their habitations further and further from countrey to countrey till they had replenished all places according to Gods command and blessing Increase and multiply and as they seated themselves in any new Plantation for their safety and more secure habitation and to free themselves from incursions of any enemies they built themselves Cities and great walled Townes having learned that lesson of Cain the fruits of sin that made man both naked and afraid of every thing and that they might be furnished with all provisions and necessaries they allotted unto every City such a circuit and compasse of ground as out of the which they might have all their necessaries supplied and be accommodated with all things needfull for food and raiment and their bodily preservation which required a large extent of ground and of which they might take at pleasure there being enough and for this very end they stocked the grounds about their severall Cities with cattell and sent out as their families increased their Colonies and Semenaries as Bees use yearly to do their Swarmes and those they seated in the most convenient and fertilest places and fittest for habitation through the countries who manured and tilled the ground and planted Vineyards and built Villages and Towns all the which still were accounted Citizens as Merchants here in London that are Citizens that have houses and habitations in the countrey lose not their former denomination by their countrey habitation no more did the people in those dayes but were alwayes with all the inhabitants within the limits of that countrey reputed Citizens and call'd by the name of such a City because they were governed by the same lawes the City was and were derived from it and were under the command of the chiefe of those families who all lived as Kings at first And therefore into whose hands soever those Cities fell either by succession donation compact mariage or victory those that were the owners or conquerours of them still for the most part continued and preserved the divisions formerly made and kept all those Villages and Townes as far as the jurisdiction of those Cities extended under their command and all by the name of such Cities as at first and all the dwellers and inhabitants within that circumference or circuit were still accounted as part of the City as all Histories do relate both sacred and humane So that they that were Masters of those severall Cities were also Lords of all those Villages which were under the jurisdiction diction of those Cities and as far as the secular power of those severall Cities did extend so far did their Ecclesiasticall And as those severall cities we read of in the holy Scripture under the Kings of Juda and Israel had all their severall civill Presbyters and Elders or a Councell and Senate of Presbyters in them to govern them under their severall Kings so they had their Ecclesiasticall or Synagogicall Presbyters or a Colledge of Elders also whose authority extended over all their severall congregations Synagogues or assemblies as well within the Cities as without through all the Villages and Townes that were within the compasse and circumference of their severall jurisdictions as all imperiall Cities through the christian world were in the Primitive times governed and are at this day in many places And therefore we cannot conceive any other of the severall Presbyters placed in every City by Apostolicall institution as of those of Jerusalem Ephesus Corinth Galatia c. but as of so many corporations for we reade that both in Jerusalem and Ephesus they had both many Presbyters and many congregations under every severall Presbytery and as men in those severall Cities Parishes Townes and Villages were daily converted to the faith so those severall Colledges of Presbyters ordained them more Presbyters by common consent and took them continually under their government which congregations though many as far as their jurisdiction extended were all joyned together under one Presbyterie and made still in every severall Precinct but one church as that of Jerusalem and Ephesus and were all governed and ordered by the joynt consent and common-counsell of their severall Colledges of Presbyters the mistaking of the which kinde of government and the mis-understanding of the Scriptures was the cause of all the confusions in the Christian world and of those sad differences here in England at this day and the only occasion of that vaine opinion of Independency for so I may call it for divers reasons For the tenent of the Independents is this That in the Church of Ierusalem and in that of Ephesus and in all the other Churches spoken of in the New Testament there were no more Believers in each of them then could all meet in one place and in one congregation to partake in all acts of worship and that they were absolute within themselves and from the which there was no appeals which I affirme is a vaine and fond opinion contrary to both Scripture and reason and all antiquity and that it is both against Scripture and reason I have sufficiently as I conceive proved it in the foregoing discourse But for a further confirmation of it I shall here adde some other arguments that may if it be possible undeceive those that have by the falacies and craft of their Teachers been misled and seduced I must confesse it has been a wonder often to me to see that such multitudes of godly people and those that I had thought had been so well grounded in Religion should be so carried about with every winde of new doctrine under pretence of New-lights when they have so often been forewarn'd to take heed of deceivers by Christ and his Apostles and that in such a violent manner and with such exaspirated spirits against their Brethren that cannot assent unto those novelties For if they had ever read the holy Scriptures with understanding or been but a little acquainted with the Ecclesiasticall Histories they could never have been so suddenly deluded For if we but reade the Acts of the Apostles with attention or the Epistles of Paul and all the writings of the New Testament we shall finde in them all that by the powerfull preaching of the Gospel and by the wonderfull working of miracles of the Apostles whole cities and countries were converted unto the faith and that the Gospel was generally imbraced and whole Nations converted and brought to the obedience of the faith by it in a very short time and Saint Paul speaking of the Romans chap. 1 ver 8. saith that their faith was spoken of through the whole world and in chap. 10.