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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	church_n	congregation_n	elder_n	2,807	5	10.1144	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30127	A case of conscience resolved viz. whether, where a church of Christ is situate, it is the duty of the women of that congregation, ordinarily, and by appointment, to separate themselves from their brethren, and so to assemble together to perform some parts of divine worship, as prayer, &c. without their men? : And the arguments made use of for that practice examined / by John Bunyan.	Bunyan, John, 1628-1688.	1683 (1683)	Wing B5490; ESTC R41305	30,288	39

31.11 12. Exo. 4.29 Chap. 12.21 Chap. 17.5 Also in after times they were the Elders and chief of the Church that did it Josh. 24.1 Ezra 10.5 6 7 8 9. Acts 14.26 27. Chap. 15.3 Or if their calling together to performe divine Worship was not by the Elders alone Yet it was by the Power that resided in the Church for that thing who joyntly ordered the same Judg. 20.8.18 Ezra 3.1 Zeph. 2.1 2 3. Acts 12.12 1 Cor. 5.4 Chap. 11 20. All these are plain cases But never as I ever did read of in the Bible did Women Ordinary beliving ones assume this Power of the Elders or of the Church to themselves If it be asked who did appoint that Meeting made mention of Acts 12.12 I Answer 'T was appointed by the Power of the Church who for her own conveniencie if she cannot come all into one place at once to perform the Duty as 't is not likely four or five thousand should in times of persecution which was their case may meet some here some there for their Edification and comfort compare Vers. 5. with Vers. 12 and Vers. 17. Nor do I Question the Lawfulness of this or that part of the Churches Assembling together for Prayer Tho the Elders and greatest part of the Brethren be absent If first such MEN that call such Assemblies are countenanced by the Elders or Church to do it 1 Tim. 2.8 2 Tim. 2.22 But that the Sisters of this or that Church may call their own Sex together to perform such Worship by themselves to God for this is the thing in debate I finde no warrant for Secondly Because This kind of Worship when done in and by a Company is MINISTERIAL to that Company as well as petitionary to God That is they that as the mouth in Assemblies Pray to God teach that Assembly as well as beg mercies of him And I finde not that Women may Assemble to do thus That such Prayer is a kind of Ministring in the Word to Standers by consider well 1 Cor. 14.15 16 17 18 19. Wherefore let them keep silence in the Church and in the parts thereof when Assembled to Worship God In all Publick Worship by Prayer Teaching is set on foot two wayes 1. By propounding to that Assembly the things that must by agreement be Prayed for 2. And by proving them to suit with the will of God that Prayer may be made in Faith 1 Joh. 5.14 For all such Prayer must be made for the things agreed upon first and consequently for things that by the Word are proved good and sutable for the Seasons Persons or things for or about which such Prayers are made For they that have Meetings for Prayer without this Pray at random and not by Rule If two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask according to Gods will it shall be done for them saith Christ of my Father which is in Heaven Matt. 18.19 Now I say if things Prayed for in Assemblies must first be joyntly agreed upon then must such things by some one or more of that Assembly be first Propounded Expounded and Proved to be good by the Word Good for such Persons Seasons or things for which such Prayer is made And besides the Gifts required to do this if this is not Teaching I am out And yet this must first be done to instruct all present to help their Faith and to quicken their Spirits to and in that Worship That they may as one Man have their Eyes unto the Lord Zech. 9.1 But that this Power is given to Women to Ordinary believing ones that are in the highest account in Churches I do not believe I do not believe they should Minister to God in Prayer before the whole Church for then I should be a Ranter or a Quaker Nor do I believe they should do it in their own Womanish Assembly for the reason urged before And I will add if Brethren not heretofore called by the Church to open Scriptures or to speak in the Church to God in Prayer are not at first to be admitted to do this but before the Elders or Principal Brethren that they may hear and Judge 1 Cor. 14.26 27 28 29. how can it be thought to be meet or lawful for Women of whom it must be supposed that they have received no such Gifts that they should use this Power I say how can it be imagined that the Women should be bound of God to do this in such Sort as doth utterly exclude the Elders and all the Men in the Congregation from a possibility of understanding and of Judging of what they do And yet this is the Doctrine of Mr. K. For he saith that the Spirit of God is promised to Women to this very end that they may Pray together apart from Men. But God is not the Author of this Confusion in the Churches 2ly But Secondly As teaching by Prayer in Assemblies is thus set on foot so every one also that shall in such Meetings be the mouth of the whole to God Ministreth SO Doctrine to that Assembly as well as presenteth petitions to God Else how can that Assembly say AMEN at their Prayer or giving of thanks For to say AMEN is an effect of Conviction or of Edification received of the stander by from him that now is so Ministring in that Assembly before God 1 Cor. 14 15 16 17. Yea I believe that they that Pray in Assemblies or that shall give thanks for Mercies received there Ought to labor to speak not only with fervency of Words but with such soundness of Doctrine while they mention urge or plead the promise with God that that whole Assembly may be enlightned taught taken and carried away in their Spirits on the wing of that Prayer and of Faith to God whose face they are come to seek and whose Grace they are gathered together to beg Now this is called Praying and Praising to the Teaching and Edifying of others as by the Scripture afore named is made appear 1 Cor. 14.14 15 16 17 18 19. But by what Word of God the Sisters of the respective Churches may set up this way of Teaching of one another in their Assemblies I am ignorant of For. Thirdly The Holy Ghost doth particularly insist upon the inability of Women as to their well managing of the Worship now under Consideration and therefore it ought not to be presumed upon by them They are forbidden to teach yea to speak in the Church of God And why forbidden but because of their inability They cannot orderly manage that Worship to God that in Assemblies is to be performed before him I speak now of our Ordinary believing ones and I know none Extraordinary among the Churches They are not builded to manage such Worship they are not the Image and Glory of God as the Men are 1 Cor. 11.7 They are placed beneath and are called the Glory of the Man Wherefore they are weak and not permited to

thereof 3. By Separating I mean their Meetings together by appointment of their own and as so met to attempt to performe divine Worship Prayer without their Men. Having thus explained the Question I as a preparatory to a solution thereof come next to shew what manner of Assemblies they were that used to perform divine Worship to God of Old Now I finde that there have been three Sorts of Assemblies in which divine Worship has been performed 1st It has been performed in mixed Assemblies in Assemblies made up of Saints and Sinners I say divine Worship has been performed IN such Assemblies for that there the Saints have been Edified Sinners convinced and converted and made to confess their Sins to the Glory of God Of these Assemblies we read Matt. 5.1 Chap. 13.1 Chap. 23. Marc. 4.1 Chap. 2.1 Chap. 6.2 Chap. 10. Luk. 5. Chap. 8. Chap. 12. Chap. 13. Chap. 15. Chap. 20. 1 Cor. 14.24 And in many other Scriptures 2ly I also find that the Church by herself or as distinct from the World have met together to perform it by themselves Mar. 4.34 Acts. 12 4. Chap. 13.1 2. Chap. 15.4 Chap. 20.7 8. Joh. 20.19 26. 3ly I find also that Assemblies for divine Worship have been made up of the Elders and Principal Brethren of the Church none of the rest of the Congregation being present Matt. 10.1 Luk. 9.1 Acts 1.3 Chap. 2.17 18. Gal. 2.1.2 with several other Scriptures beside But in all the Scripture I find not that the Women of the Churches of Christ did use to separate themselves from their Brethren and as so separate performe Worship together among themselves or in that their Congregation or that they made by allowance of the Word appointment so to do Thus far therefore this must stand for a humane invention and Mr. K. for the promoter thereof 3ly This done in the third place I come to shew you whose Prayers or by whose mouth Prayer in such Assemblies as are above proved Lawful used to be made or by Paul or others were desired 1. Whose Prayers were used or who was the mouth and I find them called the Prayers of the Church in General or of the Principal Men thereof in particular Judg 2.4 5. Chap. 20.8.26 Jorl 1.14 Chap. 2.15 16. Acts 12.5 Acts 13.1 3. 2. Also when Paul or others desired that Prayers should be made of others for them They either desired the Prayers of the Church in General or of the Brethren in particular but never desireth or biddeth a Womans Meeting that Prayers might there be made for them 1. He desireth the Prayers of the Church in General Col. 4.2 Philipi 1.9 Chap. 4.6 1 Thes. 5.17 Heb. 13.18 2. Or if he desireth Prayers of certain Persons he only calls upon on the Men and Brethren in particular but never upon a Woman by name nor Sex to do it 1 Thes. 5.25 2 Thes. 3.1 Rom. 15.30 1 Tim. 2.8 Nor was as I said the Apostle alone in this thing Christ speaks a Parable to this end that MEN ought always to Pray James saith the effectual fervent Prayer of a righteous MAN Moses sent the young Men to Sacrifice And the People in the time of Zacharias sent their MEN to Pray before the Lord Luk. 18.1 Jam. 5.16 Exod. 24.5 Zach. 7.2 I do not believe that by any of these the Prayers of Women are despised but by these we are taught who as the mouth in Assemblies to Pray is commended unto us One Word more The Women in the time of Jeremy the Prophet when they had made their Cakes to the Queen of Heaven tho the thing which they did was as right in their own eyes as if they had done true Worship indeed and was Questioned by the Prophet for what they had done could not Justifie what they had done as to the Act but by pleading They did it not without their Men. Jer. 44.17 18 19. Thus having premised these few things I shall now come more directly to discourse of the Question it self TO WIT Whether where a Church of Christ is Situate it is the Duty of the Women of that Congregation Ordinarily and by appointment to separate themselves from their Brethren and as so separate to assemble together to perform divine Worship Prayer without their Men This was our Question and this I will now give a Negative Answer unto For I find not in Christs Testament any command so to do no nor yet Example and where there is none of these it cannot be a Duty upon them no nor yet Liberty but presumption to attempt it The Command says Mr. K. is General to All. But I Answer yet limited and confined to Order and manner of Performance Women may yea ought to Pray what then Is it their Duty to help to carry on Prayer in Publick Assemblies with Men as they Are they to be the audible mouth there before all to God No verily and yet the command is General to all to Pray Women of the respective Churches of Christ have no command to separate themselves from the Men of their Congregations to perform Prayer in their own Company without them and yet the command is General to all to Pray We must therefore distinguish of Persons and performances though we may not exclude either The manner also and Order in which such and such Duties must be done Mr. K. knows is as Essential in some cases as the very matter of VVorship But we will come to my reasons for my dissenting from Mr. K. in this After which I will consider his Arguments and the Scriptures that he would under-prop them with As for my reasons for my dissenting from him they are these First To appoint Meetings for divine VVorship either in the whole Church or in the parts of it Is an Act of Power which Power resideth in the Elders in particular or in the Church in General But never in the VVomen as considered by themselves Mr. K. indeed doth insinuate that this Power also resideth in them for he saith God hath in Gospel times promised the Spirit to Women to that very end that they may Pray together apart from Men. Now if the Spirit is given them to THIS very end that they may do it apart from Men then they have a Power residing in themselves to call their own Sex together to do it And what brave doings will such a conclusion make even the blind himself will perceive But further of this anon mean while we will our own assertion attend Namly That to call the Church or parts thereof together to perform divine Worship to God is an ACT of POWER which power resideth in the Church in General or in the Elders in particular We will treat of the last first First For the Eldership Moses and Aaron of Old were they with the Priests that were to call the Church together to perform divine Worship to God and that both as to the whole or as to the parts of it Numb 10.7.8 Deut. 4.14 Chap.

Church that thus consisteth of all Righteous that are so in Gods account they are to have an House in Heaven and to be for Gods habitation there Who then shall be governed by their Head without those Officers and Laws that are necessary here And both at last shall be subject to him that sometime did put all things under Christ that God may be all in all Joh. 14.1 2 3. Ephes. 2.21 1 Cor. 15.23 24 25 26 27. Wherefore my beloved Sisters this inferiority of yours will last but a little while When the day of Gods Salvation is come to wit when our Lord shall descend from Heaven with a shout with the voice of the Archangel and the Trump of God these distinctions of Sexes shall be laid a side and every pot shall be filled to the Brim For with a notwithstanding you shall be saved and be gathered up to that state of Felicity if you continue in Faith and Charity and Holiness with sobriety 1 Tim. 2.15 Thirdly I doubt not at all of the Lawfulness of Womens Praying and that both in private and Publick Only when they Pray Publickly they should not separate from but joyn with the Church in that Work They should also not be the mouth of the Assembly but in heart desires grones and Tears they should go a long with the Men. In their Closets they are at Liberty to speak unto their God who can bear with and pitty them with us and pardon all our weakness for the sake of Jesus Christ. And here I will take an occasion to say there may be a twofold miscarriage in Prayer one in Doctrine the other in the frame of the Heart All are too much subject to the last Women to the first And for this cause it is at least so I think that VVomen are not permitted to Teach nor speak in Assemblies for Divine Worship but to be and to learn in silence 1 Cor. 14.33 34 35. Chap. 15.33 For he that faileth as to the frame of his Spirit hurteth only himself But he that faileth in Doctrine corrupteth them that stand by Let the Women be alone with Rebecca in the Closet or if in Company Let her with Hanna speak to her self and to God and not doubt but if She be humble and keep within Compass Shee shall be sharers with her Brethren in the Mercy Fourthly Nor are Women by what I have said debarred from any Work or imploy unto which they are enjoyned by the Word They have often been called forth to be Gods witnesses and have Born famous Testimony for him against the Sons of the Sorceress and the Whore I remember many of them with comfort Even of these Eminent Daughters of Sarah whose Daughters you also are so long as you do well and are not affraid with any amazement 1 Pet. 3.1 2 3 4 5 6. What by the Word of God you are called unto what by the Word is enjoyned you do and the Lord be with you But this of the Womens Meetings Since indeed there is nothing for its Countenance in the Word and since the calling together of Assemblies for Worship is an Act of Power and belongeth to the Church Elders or Chief Men of the same Let me intreat you to be content to be under Subjection and Obedience as also saith the Law We hold that it is Gods Word that we are to look to as to all things pertaining to Worship because it is the Word that Authorizeth and Sanctifieth what wee do Fifthly Women They are an Ornament in the Church of God on Earth as the Angels are in the Church in Heaven Betwixt whom also there is some Comparison for they cover their faces in Acts of Worship Isa 6.2 1 Cor. 11.10 But as the Angels in Heaven are not Christ and so not admitted to the Mercie-seat to speak to God so neither are Women on Earth the Man who is to Worship with open face before him and to be the mouth in Prayer for the rest As the Angels then cry Holy Holy Holy with faces covered in Heaven So let the Women cry Holy Holy Holy with their faces covered on Earth Yea thus they should do because of the Angels For this cause ought the Woman to have Power that is a covering on her Head because of the Angels 1 Cor. 11.10 Not only because the Angels are present but because Women and Angels as to their Worship in their respective places have a semblance For the Angels are inferior to the great Man Christ who is in Heaven and the Woman is inferior to the Man that Truly Worships God in the Church on Earth Methinks Holy and Beloved Sisters you should be content to wear this Power or badge of your inferiority since the cause thereof arose at first from your selves 'T was the Woman that at first the Serpent made use of and by whom he then overthrew the World Wherefore the Woman to the Worlds end must wear tokens of her Vnderlingship in all Matters of VVorship To say nothing of that which she cannot shake off to wit her pains and sorrows in Child-bearing which God has riveted to her Nature there is her Silence and shame and a covering for her face in token of it which she ought to be exercised with when ever the Church comes together to VVorship Gen. 3.16 1 Tim. 2.15 1 Cor. 11.13 1 Tim. 2.9 Do you think that God gave the VVoman her hair that she might deck her self and set off her fleshly beauty therewith It was given her to cover her face with in token of shame and silence for that by the VVoman sin came into the VVorld 1 Tim. 2.9 And perhaps the reason why the Angels cover their faces when they cry Holy Holy Holy in Heaven is to shew that they still bear in minde with a kind of abhorrence the remembrance of their Fellows falling from thence Modesty and shame-facedness becomes VVomen at all times especially in times of Publick VVorship and the more of this is mixed with their grace and personage the more Beautiful they are both to God and Men. But why must the Women have shame-facedness since they live honestly as the Men I Answer In remembrance of the Fall of Eve and to that the Apostle applies it For a VVoman necessity has no Law to shave her head and to look with open face in VVorship as if she could be a leader there is so far from doing that which becomes her that it declares her to have forgot what God would have her for ever with shame remember Sixthly In what I have said about the VVomens Meetings I have not at all concerned my self about those VVomen that have been Extraordinary ones such as Miriam Deborah Huldah Anna or the rest as the Daughters of Philip the Evangelist Priscilla the VVomen that Paul said laboured with him in the Gospel or such like for they might Teach Prophecy and had power to call the People together so to do Though this I must say concerning them they ought