Selected quad for the lemma: power_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
power_n	ceremony_n	church_n	rite_n	2,845	5	10.3412	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69195	Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere.	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1605 (1605)	STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734	57,418	70

as that not only they content not thē selves by eating flesh themselves to grieve to offend a weak brother to give him an occasion to sinne but also cōmand a weake brother to eate that meate by eating wherof he can not but fal but stumble but grieve but offend but sinne and but destroy him selfe This kind of charitie may deserve vnhappely the name of some Synodal or Provincial charitie but certes it can neverworthely deserve to be called an Apostolicall charitie But Sirs you mistake the matter very much you deceive your selves draw not the cases rightly The vse of Crosses Copes Surplices Cappes kneelings are cōmanded by the christiā Magistrates soveraigne authority only as things indifferēt for orders sake not that men should be grieved and offended or that they should fall stumble sinne destroy them selves Touching the christian Magistrates authoritie about ordering rites ceremonies in the church we have somewhat at large argued before which we had thought might have fully satisfied your Lordships but because it pleaseth you still to presse vs with the same we must once againe plainly signifie vnto you that we beleeve that your selves do not attribute any more spirituall authoritie vnto the King to make constitute and ordeine canons constitutions rites or ceremonies then you give vnto him spirituall power to preach the word administer the Sacraments and excommunicate For we beleeve that your selves with the residue of the clergie assembled by the Kings writt in your convocation doe chalendge all spirituall power vnto your selves to make ordeine and decree all maner of canons constitutions ordinances ornaments rites and ceremonies in the Church Yea and this spirituall power we beleeve that you pretend to be derived vnto your selves and the rest of the clergie in the convocation not from any spirituall power invested in the person of our soveraigne Lord the King but onely from the spirituall power of our Saviour Christ alone And this is manifest by your Cxxxix canon for so are your words Whosoever shall hereafter affirme that the Sacred Synode of this nation in the name of Christ and by the Kings authoritie assembled is not the church of England by representation let him be excommunicated c. These wordes wee say of your canon viz. Sacred Synod is assembled in the name of Christ and by authoritie of the King plainely testifie that you hold your Synode not to be assembled by authoritie of the King in the name of the King or in the name of Christ and the King but only in the name of Christ And therefore by your owne wordes wee are inforced to beleeve that you attribute vnto the King none other authoritie then such as you attribute to the godly Kinges of Judah namely an authoritie to assemble and command your persons as they assembled and commanded the persons of the Priestes What to execute the rites and ceremonies of the Kinges of Iudah No but to execute the rites and ceremonies of God And so we beleeve your persons being assembled by authoritie and commandement of the King that your selves by your owne authoritie and that in the name and by the power of Christ and not in the name and power of the King doe ordeine decree and make canons constitutions rites and ceremonies as if they were sent vnto vs by your handes from God And thus much doe the very first words of your first canon and some words in your 140. 141. canons clearly prove For howsoever in the title of your book you vse these words Constitutions and Canons treated and agreed vpon by the Bishop of London c. Yet both in the proheme body of your first canō you affirme as followeth In your proheme or title you say thus the Kings supremacy over the church of Englād in causes ecclesiastical you say not over the church causes but over the church in causes and in the body of the same canō you say we first decree ordeine that the Archb. of Canterbury c. and in the Cxl. canon your words are these Whosoever shall affime that no maner of person c. are to be subiect to the decrees therof speaking of the Synod eccllesiasticall made ratified by the kings Maiesties supreame authority c. let him be c. your words also in your last canō are these whosoever shal hereafter affirm c. that the sacred Sinod assembled c. was a company of persons c. in making canons cōstitutions in causes ecclesiasticall c. ought to be despised c. the same being ratified confirmed and inioyned by the regall power supremacie and authoritie lett them be excommunicated Now by all these your owne words and sentences we decree ordeine decrees of the Synod making canons by the sacred Synod ratified confirmed inioyned by the regall power c. by all these words we say we can not but beleeve that you chalendge your ecclesiasticall power of ordeining decreeing making decrees canons constitutions rites and ceremonies to be invested in your owne persons assembled by authoritie of the King from the authoritie and power of Christ and not from any spirituall or ecclesiasticall power invested in the person of the King and derived and conveighed vnto your persons assembled by his regall writt For then how should we not beleeve also but that you iudged the Kings writt to be no civil but an ecclesiasticall and spirituall writt But howsoever as yet wee beleeve not this latter yet still we beleeve that you appropriate vnto your owne persons assembled by the Kings writt a sole power and that from our Saviour Christ to give vnto your decrees canons constitutions rites and ceremonies their first being and their first birthright and that you assigne vnto the King none other power but a power of their after birth of ratifying and confirming of that life being which your persons have first put into them So that the King is in this but as it were an executioner of your canons and not you the executioners of the Kings decrees Yea thus much M. Doctor Bilson in his Book intituled True difference betweene Christian subiection vnchristian rebellion Pag. 243. avoweth testifieth whose words are these We never said that Princes had any spirituall power it is a false collection of yours it is no part of our cōfession the sword which they bear we never called but external tēporall Againe to devise new rites and ceremonies for the Church is not the Princes vocation but to receive and allow such as the Scriptures and canons commend and such as the Bishops Pastours of the place shall advise not infringing the Scriptures or canons so for all other ecclesiasticall things causes Princes be neither the devisors nor directors of them but the confirmers and establishers of that which is good and displacers and revengers of that which is evill which power we say they have in all things be they spirituall

ecclesiasticall or temporall ibid. pag. 252. Yea and moreover we beleeve if any should impugne or gaine-say this your power of making spirituall and ecclesiasticall decrees in your convocatiō not to belong properly to your ministeriall power which you have by your divine offices in the church that you would then fly for the interpretation of the statute 1. Elizab. to our late Queenes iniunctions wherby it is declared that nothing was is or shal be meant or intēded by the oath required to have any other duety allegeance or band then was acknowledged to be due to the most noble Kinges of famous memorie K. H. the eight hir Maiesties Father or to K. Ed. 6. hir Maiesties brother And that the Kings and Queenes of this Realme may not challendge authoririe and power of any ministery of divine offices in the Churches But vnder God to have soveraintie rule of all maner of persons borne within hir Realmes so as no other foreigne power shal or ought to have any superioritie over them vpon this iniunction we say we build our former credence that your Lordships iudge your only persons and the persons of the rest of the Clergie not the ministerie of your divine offices or any parte thereof to be vnder the obedience of the Kings power vnto which ministerie also of divine offices you attribute right of ordeyning and making canons rites and ceremonies in the Church as a right properly incident and appertaining to that ministery not of doctrine but of divine governement which you challendge to be due vnto you as vnto Ministers and Officers appointed to rule and governe the Church vnder Christ by the holy Scriptures And therefore we pray your Lordships henceforwards to put vs vnto no more paine to answere this your argument of Kingly and supreame authoritie For we beleeve assuredly if Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and the rest of the clergie assembled by the Kings writt by their deliberate counsaile voluntary and vnconstrayned will had not in their Synod decreed the vse of Copes Surplices Crosses square Cappes Tippets and such trash or if they had not by the president of their assembly most instantly supplicated the King to command the vse of these things thus ordeined by them selves we perswade our selves assuredly that the King by his absolute regall and supreame power would never have constrayned Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c. to have vndergone the yoke of these ceremonies for the King right well knoweth that in so doing he should not have walked in the wayes of the Godly kings of Iudah then whose holy example to followe his Highnes hath protested to desire nothing more Neither for any other purpose as it seemeth vnto vs by your late speaches in the eares of the King no ceremony no Bishop doe your selves presse these ceremonies then that they should be in your owne hands as crosier staves to stay vp from falling the tottering walles of your Lordly Iurisdictions And yet because we never read in holy Writt that any ceremony was ever planted by our heavenly Father to bee a leanetoo for any Bishops of Gods planting or that the vnplanting of an humane ceremony would be the vnplanting of any of Gods Bishops what should we gather from hence but that your Lordships bee no Bishops of Gods planting for Bishops planted by the hande of God in the Vineyard of Christ be so fast sett and so deeply rooted that by no blast or storme of humane ceremonies they can be blowne vp And thus much touching your argument of the Kings cōmandement for orders sake As for the indifferencie of the things commanded the same hath already bene handled in an other place but touching the last part of your exception that the vse of these things is not commanded to the end that men should be grieved offended fall stumble sinne destroy them selves we reiect this as an impertinent insufficient answere to our demand for our demand tendeth not to insinuate that we think that these things be commanded to the end that every man by the vse of them should sinne but our demand concerneth the vncharitable commandement of the vse of these things imposed vpon a weake brother which weake brother by the vse of these things notwithstanding the commandement can not but full but stumble but give an offence but sinne What because of the commandement No but by reason of his weaknes which the commandement hath not power to ridd and take from him And therefore vnles your Lordships by some learning taught you in holy Writt can informe your selves our Christian Magistrate that your Synode in the Apostles absence is placed in the Apostolike chaire and being so placed hath also received by the Apostles doctrine an Apostolike authoritie to commande those thinges in his absence which he expresly forbade in his presence wee doubt greatly whether your convocationall assembly can charitably by Gods Law command the weake in faith to eate meate sacrificed vnto Idols and so by consequence to weare a Surplice a Cope a square Cap a shaven Crowne a Fryers Coule or a Monckes Hood yea or no Nay sithence the Apostle hath directly and in plaine termes forbidden the strong in faith the eating of meate sacrificed vnto Idolls because of him that shewed it and for the conscience not of thine but of that other which sayeth this is sacrificed vnto Idols and if withall hee have taught that it is evill for a man to eate with offence we demand by what rule of holy Writt your Lordships can assure the conscience of our Christian Magistrate and the soules of your assembly in convocation that his Highnes and they shall doe charitably vprightly and not sinne in the sight of the Lord in case by a commandement ye impose a necessitie of eating meates or vsing things of like indifferencie vpon the weake which the weake by the Apostles doctrine have free libertie nay rather which by the Apostles doctrine they be taught so longe as they be weake not to vse Besides if eating drinking appareling crossing or kneeling doubtingly without faith or with offence be sinnes against the soule defilements of the soule we then pray your Ll. to deale plainly with vs divinely to teach vs whether it be an Apostolike charitie to cōmand the doing of a thing which can not be done either by the weak in faith but doubtingly or by the strong in faith without offence giving an occasion to fall or putting a stumbling block before his brother But Sirs by your patience the Christian Magistrate doeth not inioyne neither doeth the Clergie in their convocation decree that the Ministers or people should weare a Surplice make a Crosse or kneele doubtingly and without faith only his commandement is that they kneele that they make a crosse and that they weare a Surplice Yea by your Lordships favour we demand whether such their doubting such their being without faith can either be purged by any glister or be dispensed

crosse is a token of these invisible spirituall graces then againe we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether God did ever ordeine any invisible signes to bee invisible tokens of invisible graces yea or no And if God did never ordeine such signes then we demand what authoritie man hath to ordeine such signes But if your Lordships shall answere negatively viz that the invisible signe of the crosse imaginarily pretended to bee made by the Minister is not a token of these inward and spirituall graces then wee demande whether your Lordships with your owne mouthes pronounce not that thing to be false which the booke of common prayer commandeth every Minister with his lips to proclaime to be true But Sirs by your leave the Church hath power from Christ to ordeyne rites and ceremonies and the Magistrate may command that all things be done decently and according to order in the time of prayer and administration of Sacraments Yea and so say we too Nay wee say more that the Christian Magistrate knowing any thing to be done vndecently and vnorderly shall sinne against God if by his authority he take not order for reformation of such disorder but by your Lordships favour the question is not whether the Church may ordeine Rites and Ceremonies or whether the Christian Magistrate may command such things as by the Apostles doctrine are to be done that the same be done decently and orderly but the question is whether all rites and ceremonies indefinitlie and without limitation approved by the Church and commaunded by the Magistrate to bee decent and to be in order be in deed and without contradiction absolutely decent and absolutely in order And for this cause and in this regarde only both by ministers and people without any search or inquisitiō of their agreeablenes with holy writt absolutely to be receyved as if the same by some holy oracle were immediatly sent vnto them from God For be it supposed that some rites and ceremonies ordeyned by the Church and commaunded by the Christian Magistrate be of the nature of things either vnlawfull or inexpedient or that they be vaine idle vnnecessarie and vnprofitable things in these cases we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether the Apostles rule of having all things to be done decently and according to order in the Church cease not For how should those things be done decently and orderly in the Church for the which the Church hath no warrant that the same should be done at all The Apostle then having taught the Corinthians that the thinges which he wrote were the commaundements of the Lord and concluding that all things treated of by him in the former partes of that chapter touching the right vse of spirituall giftes are to bee done decently and in order we demaund whether your Lordships from this apostolicall rule can religiouslie conclude any otherwise then thus All the commaundements and all the spirituall giftes of the Lord are to be done and vsed in the Church decently and orderly But the wearing of a Surplice in tyme of prayer and administration of Sacramentes the making of a Crosse vpon the childes forehead c. And kneeling in the act of receyving bread and wine at the Lordes Table bee spirituall giftes or at leastwise be the commaundements of the Lord Therefore these things are to be done decently and in order But now if your Lordships beeing not able to strengthen your minor proposition by any place of holy Writt shall make the same answere which the Romanistes frame in all like cases for the Authoritie of their church namely that the Ministers and people ought preciselie to observe and doe these thinges if not propter Authoritatem Apostolicam yet propter authoritatem Ecclesiae seu Christiani Magistratus sic statuentis Then doe your Lordships but as they doe even runne from the Rock and buyld vpon the Sand yea and besides flee from the poynte in question making the Church and Christian Magistrate not only to be preservers but commanders of all Evangelicall decencie and order And then might not this consequution and conclusion infallibly be true What soever thinges by the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate be or shal be appointed for Evangelicall decencie and order in the Church the same without all exception and challendge of any vndecencie or disorder must and ought to be receyved of every member of the Church for decent and orderlie thinges But all such and such things by the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate be appointed c. Therefore all such and such things must ought without all exception be receyved c. Yea Sirs and is not this a good consequution and doeth not this conclusion necessarilie followe For who shall be Iudge of Evangelicall decencie and order if not the Church and Christian Magistrate alone Before we answere vnto this question wee denie your proposition because the same seemeth vnto vs to be rather an inversion then a true conversion of the Apostles rule viz. Let all things be done decently and in order The meaning whereof according to the Analogie of the place we take to be this namely that all thinges or what soever thinges are to be done in the Church that the same thinges ought to bee done decently and in order But what agreement we pray you hath this rule with your proposition or what coherence hath your proposition with this rule for by what arte can you frame this your proposition vpon the Apostles foundation This your proposition wee saye namely all things or whatsoever things the Church with consent of the Christian Magistrate shall authorize for decencie and order the same are all decent and orderly things Indeed if this your propositiō could be proved true by any doctrine drawne from any other place of holy Writt we would easilie graunt the church with consent of the christian Magistrate having commanded Copes Surplices Crosses kneelings c. to be vsed in the church that this the Apostles rule did binde all those to kneele to make crosses and to weare Copes and Surplices not vngaynely disorderly or slovenly but comely hansomely and netely but seeing your proposition is false and can not by any other place of holy scripture be proved true you have drawne in the Apostles rule as it were by the hayre and pluckt it in as it were by the heeles to a wrong purpose and forced it to a wronge sense Furthermore because these wordes decencie and order mencioned in your proposition carrie a double sense we pray your Lordships to resolve vs whether by these wordes decencie order you meane simplie such a decencie and such an order as for the allowance whereof playne and evident testimonies may be founde in holy Writt that the same decencie and order is pleasing vnto God or whether you meane such a decencie and order only as for the which we having no other warrant